674. Enchanted Romantasy Feasts with Gaby Leon, HappyGabyCooks

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Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 674 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and my guest today is Gaby Leon. You might know Gaby as HappyGabyCooking on TikTok and Instagram, but she’s also the author of a new cookbook. The Enchanted Feast is a gorgeous book filled with recipes inspired by Gaby’s favorite rrromantasy titles! There are cocktails, snacks, entrees, terrific cookies and desserts, so this recipe book and this episode might make you hungry. And if you’re thinking you might need to check out this cookbook, yes, yes, you do. There will be links in the show notes, but if you’ve got a potluck coming up or a book club, this cookbook has you covered.

I will have links to everything we talk about, including where you can find HappyGabyCooking, in the show notes, or you can go to smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 674!

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You talk about food? I’m always ready to talk about food. On with my podcast with Gaby Leon.

[music]

Gaby Leon: Hi, everyone. I’m Gaby, Gaby Leon. I’m known as HappyGabyCooking on socials, but I make TikTok and Instagram videos. Well, they’re cooking videos inspired by food mentioned in some of my favorite books. If you’re familiar with Binging with Babish, maybe you think like Binging with Babish but for romantasy –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Gaby: – or books. And because of those books, or because of those videos and the excitement for romantasy, I was able to write a cookbook that’s inspired by my favorite books and characters.

Sarah: I love that so much because, I mean, I’ve been doing this a little longer, but my entire career trajectory was I’m just going to show up on the internet, see what happens, and then –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – one thing leads to another, leads to another, but you, you start out doing what makes you happy, and then someone else is like, Hey, this is great!

Gaby: Mm-hmm, exactly. It’s like a happy accident. It was like, Oh! I was just doing this for fun, but okay! I’m, I’m glad other people like it too.

Sarah: So congratulations on The Enchanted Feast Cookbook. I got to see a PDF, and it is appallingly beautiful. Like –

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I was so hungry when I finished reading it I was like, This is not fair, I want to eat all of these things, and now I have to go make them. What will readers find inside this cookbook?

Gaby: Yes. So inside the book there’s fifty recipes with different drinks, desserts, breakfast, appetizers, and entrees that are all inspired by different romantasy themes, characters, places, specific recipes that might have been mentioned in the books, and they’re really meant to be, like, fun, like a fun twist on, like, your average recipes that you might have every day, but make, I made sure that each of them was tied to a place or a character or a specific book so that it feels a little bit more fun and playful, like a nice way to just, like, integrate romantasy into your everyday life if you want to, or inspiration for a, a book club if you don’t know what to make, like, you could probably make something from the book, and I hope that your guests would be happy with that! [Laughs] But yeah, that’s more or less what’s in the book.

Sarah: So when you’re reading a book, if you’re reading a, a, a rrromantasy – I think it’s, you can only say it if you trill the R?

Gaby: [Laughs] Yes.

Sarah: So if you’re reading a rrromantasy book and you come across a food reference, are you like, Yes! This is amazing!?

Gaby: Yes. Pretty much like that, yeah. Pretty much that.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Gaby: Like, I, I have a few books that I’ve just, like, bookmarked like every time it mentions a food that I’m like, I like that. That’s very specific! [Laughs] Oh yeah, I’ll bookmark it, and, and then that helps give me inspo for a recipe.

Sarah: And food items are major elements in these stories. Like –

Gaby: Mm-hmm?

Sarah: – having to clean lentils out of a fireplace.

Gaby: Exactly.

Sarah: Having a house deliver you chocolate. Eating or foraging when you, when you’re lost in whatever scary Fae world. Like, there’s all of these little references to food, so they, they are, they speak to you. They, they are meant for you.

Gaby: Exactly. Yes. And yeah, I noticed that too. I mean, not, not all authors? It’s interesting; some of them are very specific about their food, and they’re very detailed. Others are not as much, but I do still think food, food plays a large, a role in, like, pushing the plot forward in some way, and a lot of people don’t even realize it, ‘cause I think they just take it for granted. Like, oh! It’s just, it’s just a dinner. It’s just a roast chicken, but sometimes it ends up being, being more. [Laughs]

Sarah: And, you know, if an author is making the choices to put a very specific food in the story, there’s probably a reason for that beyond they might have a recipe searching addiction or something…

Gaby: Mm-hmm, exactly. [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, that’s, that food means something! It’s not just, Oh, I saw it on Pinterest, so that’s what the character’s eating. Like, there’s, there’s meaning there!

Gaby: Mm-hmm! So true, yeah. I agree.

Sarah: So please tell me about recipe development. I don’t know how this works, and I am fascinated by this whole process. Where did you start with these recipes?

Gaby: Kind of like we mentioned, anytime I’m reading a book I’ll just bookmark whenever it mentions food or recipe, so that’s, like, one easy-ish way to find recipes, but sometimes you do have to do a little bit more? So what I’ve done before is like, okay, a book mentions that a certain character smells like, I don’t know, like lemon verbena or just something random. I’m like, Okay, I can make a recipe based off of that! Which gives me a little bit of freedom, like, to interpret it in my own way? But for this book I knew that I had to write around fifty recipes, which I more or less already had a pretty long list of things that I wanted to make in the future, but I was like, Okay, I’ll repurpose it for a book. [Laughs] But I had a pretty tight deadline in comparison to, to, I think, other cookbook writers. I only had about six-ish weeks –

Sarah: What?!

Gaby: – to do recipe testing for, like – [laughs] –

Sarah: Six weeks?!

Gaby: Something like that. I think that’s what it was. Like, from the, from the time that I was contacted to write the book to it actually coming out, I think it’s been like almost a year exactly. So that was very fast.

Sarah: Wow, because there’s a lot of production involved in a cookbook.

Gaby: So much, yeah! So the actual writing and testing of the book was way less than it took to edit it; to, like, take the pictures; to design it. So there was a lot of work that went into it, but, like, a very short time for the actual cooking part of it, which some people might be like, Oh, well, that’s amazing! You get six weeks to just, like, eat things and cook things. But it, it’s a lot more work than you would think?

Sarah: So much work in such a short amount of time!

Gaby: Yes. I –

Sarah: There’s so many recipes in this book! Holy cow, Gaby! [Laughs]

Gaby: No, I know! Luckily, like I said, I had, like, a vision, so I knew, like, Okay, I know what recipes I’m going to make. I just need to make them, make sure that I have them, like, down, but I did have to enlist the help of my mom – [laughs] – who was there with me, and she was helping me, like, do a lot of the food prep and would try the food and give me honest feedback. But then you have to, you know, write down the process of, of what it, what it took to cook each meal, the timing of it.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: If you mess up, you have to make it again.

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: That means going back to the store, maybe buying more ingredients. Food has gotten super expensive –

Sarah: Holy cow, it has, yes.

Gaby: – and it takes a lot of time? So it, it was a challenge. It was a challenge, but it was a, it was a nice, a nice chall- – I can now say that I cooked like fifty recipes – [laughs] – in six weeks. But yeah, it was, it was hard. I think, had I not had a list of recipes I already wanted to make –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: – it would have been way harder, because then I would have had to, like, brainstorm it, what recipes – it just would have been way, way, way worse. But, so, it didn’t end up being so bad, but yeah, it’s a lot more work than, than you think.

Sarah: I, like, I have anxiety on your behalf. Like, that is like –

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: – oh my gosh! [Laughs]

Gaby: Yeah, I know. It’s a lot.

Sarah: But you were starting with some of the recipes that you’ve already posted and developed on TikTok and had already – I mean, this cookbook came about because you were already on TikTok saying, I am making this from this book; come with me. And then you, you did these – you’re also very good at visual styling? Like, it, it looks pretty when you do stuff. Like, you’re very good at visual styling. I really feel like generations after me who have been doing much more to-camera social media have a much better visual aesthetic sense than I do? Like, I’m terrible at.

Gaby: Mmm.

Sarah: Your videos are actually very pretty already, so the styling –

Gaby: Oh!

Sarah: – was sort of halfway there, and you already had the recipe. You just had to fine-tune it, right?

Gaby: Exactly, yeah. Had to do a lot more fine-tuning. I actually think I’m not the best at styling, so that makes me feel way better, so thank you. [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, you’re welcome! So you got the cookbook contract, and now you have to cook, document, submit, and then, and then later edit the books, or edit the recipes. And this part you knew how to do. What about the photography? What was that like?

And may I please ask you a very selfish question: where did you get the eight-pointed cookie cutter for the Starlight Jam Linzer Cookies? I want one so bad. I want the cookie and the cookie cutter. This is a, a universal desire.

Gaby: [Laughs] That’s a great question. So I actually didn’t take the pictures for the cookbook, although everybody agrees they came out super beautiful.

Sarah: Oh, it’s beautiful.

Gaby: This was the publishing company; they do that through other photographers that they work with, but again, they did a really, a really great job. I love the styling that they used?

But for some of the, the eight-point cookie cutters, I did scour the internet for those.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Gaby: There, there aren’t very many. I actually, in the process of making this book, I realized that there aren’t enough cookie cutters in the world? There’s also an, another recipe that has, like, fairy sugar cookies?

Sarah: Yes.

Gaby: I really wanted, like, fairy wing cookie cutters, and all they had was like Tinkerbell or butterfly wings, which are very different. So I think maybe I should make cookie cutters or something, because I needed them for my own cookbook, and they were really hard to find. But basically, yeah, a lot of Amazon searching for very specific cookie cutters.

Sarah: And ingredients, yeah.

Gaby: And, and specific ingredients like, I guess not everybody has, like, jasmine, dried jasmine flowers in their pantry to make cookies, or edible glitter, or black sesame, so yeah. Lots of, like, taste-testing different ingredients for this.

Sarah: A lot of tasting, I imagine. Like, quite a lot of –

Gaby: Yes.

Sarah: – of tasting.

Gaby: We were kind of sick of eating after. We were like, Okay – [laughs] – never thought we’d say this, but maybe we don’t want to taste food today.

Sarah: Well, a lot of these recipes are very rich. Like, you have an incredible amount of flavor-building in your cooking repertoire, which I love. Like, it’s not just, Here, put this all in and you’re done. Like, there’s, you’re making, like, pot pies and whole dinners and, and the Steak and Wild Rice Werewolf Bowl, I wanted to –

Gaby: Yeah, did that look good? Okay, good.

Sarah: It’s gorgeous. I wanted to dive into it. Like, I wanted to just go swimming.

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: And it strikes me that, you know, there’s a lot of special editions of romantasy books with –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – you know, spredges and special covers and special insets and everything, and it strikes me that cookbooks are a lot like special editions, especially if it’s tied to a genre or tied to a book, because it is a way to deepen your interaction with those books, because now you’re cooking something from the book, and you’re reading the book and noticing what’s in it. Has this process really deepened your reading and influenced how you, how you pick or enjoy books now?

Gaby: Yeah, definitely. I think now that I, I wrote the cookbook, I’m always, I’m always keeping an eye open to see what food is in books, just out of curiosity, and I’ve actually seen more and more authors include recipes for certain food mentioned in the books; like in the, in, at the end of the book, they’ll have like a few recipes, which I think is so cute. I think that’s such an amazing way to really, like, integrate your reader into whatever world that you’re building.

Sarah: Oh yes.

Gaby: I think it’s so cool. So I, I love that. I’m always on the, on the look. I, sometimes I do get disappointed with certain books. I’m like, Nooo! They just mentioned a cookie, but not what kind of cookie! I want flavor of cookie! But yeah, it has changed a lot the way that I’ve read. And it’s hard; like, once you find a series – at least this is what I’ve, what I’ve seen other people say too – once you find, like, a series that you really love, you compare all other series to it –

Sarah: Oh yes.

Gaby: – and that’s, like, a recipe for disaster. [Laughs] You’re never going to find – it’s a challenge sometimes, reading, but I like it.

Sarah: Do you have any favorite recipes from the books, and is it Feyre’s Emotional Support Cookie?

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: ‘Cause that was my favorite, one of my favorites.

Gaby: That one is funny. Yes, that one is really good. One, one, it’s funny. Two –

Sarah: Yes!

Gaby: – it does taste good! [Laughs] It does taste really good! Let me see: I think one of my favorites is the Dragon Wings, which is Calabrian chili chicken wing, chicken wings. They were really, they’re really delicious. My mom and I actually messed them up the first time we made them. We added baking soda instead of baking powder.

Sarah: Right.

Gaby: Did you ever just eat baking soda?

Sarah: Oh, it’s so –

Gaby: It’s disgusting.

Sarah: It’s truly foul, yes, and when it’s old, it clumps together and it doesn’t –

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: – break up, and I made some biscuits once with old baking powder, and there were little pockets of –

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: – just disgustingness. Yes, it is –

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: – so foul.

Gaby: It was terrible. We took a bite, we were like, Oh my God, these looked so good, but what went wrong? And then I started looking at, I was like, Oh no. Oh no! I did the thing. I confused baking powder and baking soda.

Sarah: Oops!

Gaby: But we made them again; they taste delicious. So I’d say the Calabrian chili chicken wings are also really good. Let’s see. I also experimented with this, it’s for Feyre’s First Fae Meal. It’s a roast chicken –

Sarah: Yes!

Gaby: – but to the butter usually you add, like, you know, garlic and, and other thing, and other herbs? I added lavender just to try it, just to see how it would taste with chicken?

Sarah: Ohhh, I noticed that!

Gaby: It tastes pretty good! Yeah, it’s like a little, it’s a little hint of lavender. It’s not super overpowering; it just kind of adds some, like a different flavor profile to the chicken. So I’d say that’s another favorite one, ‘cause it’s just really fun.

Sarah: I noticed that, and I am not good at adding lavender to things? I always end up more towards the realm of soap?

Gaby: [Laughs] Yes!

Sarah: And I was like, that’s actually really interesting, to put lavender in a roast chicken, in a compound butter. Like, I thought that was really cool, and it looks gorgeous.

Gaby: Yes. Oh, thank you now. I, I was like, Ooh! Chicken with flowers on it: I feel like that would look really pretty. And it does taste good! You have to start slow, ‘cause yeah, it can, lavender’s weirdly not super overpowering, but if you do put too much, it does taste like soap. So don’t –

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: Try to go slow. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, you’ve got to go bit by bit by bit.

Gaby: Exactly.

Sarah: So you’ve got, you’ve got dragon scales from Fourth Wing; you’ve got lattes based on the desserts from Legends & Lattes; you’ve got sandwiches from the Emily Wilde series. When I release this, everyone will have just hit Pause and been like, Excuse me, I need to go – [laughs]. Yes, put this on Hold at the library. Go buy a copy…

Where, where did you start with posting recipes for your favorite rrromantasy titles? Like, what was the genesis of you being like, I’m going to show up on the internet and cook stuff?

Gaby: It’s kind of a funny story. I feel like everybody says that, but it actually was. It was – I have to go way, way back to like three or four years ago. I was in therapy. I was struggling a little bit with my identity. I’d gone through a breakup. I was working a job where I felt really insecure, and I just felt really unhappy – [laughs] – and because of all of this I, I was talking to my therapist that one of the things that I was mad at myself for was I didn’t really read anymore.

Sarah: Mm.

Gaby: Especially after college, I feel like I lost my spark for reading? Like, I grew up loving, like, Harry Potter. I’d go to the local library, would read all the Princess Diary series – oh! – would read a lot of Sarah Dessen. That was probably one of my first intros to, like, romance at the time. [Laughs] And I would devour these books, and I loved, I would reread them all the time, but I lost my passion as an adult for reading.

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: And I was so mad at myself! And my, my therapist was like, Hold up. [Laughs] I think, are you okay with spicy books? And, like, I didn’t really know what she meant? And…

Sarah: I like your therapist! I just, I hope she knows that I am her fan. That is all. I just need everyone to know, whoever your therapist is, big fan.

Gaby: Yeah. Yeah. I was like –

Sarah: She likes spicy books?

Gaby: Think, I think so, yeah. She’s like, Are you okay with that? I was like, Yeah! And she’s like, Okay, I think you’re going to like this series. It’s called ACOTAR [A Court of Thorns and Roses]. This is the author [Sarah J. Maas]; like, she’s pretty young. You know, she has like three series; she has one that’s complete, two that are still…And I was like, Okay, I’ll try it. And I remember I went to the bookstore, a, like, indie bookstore in DC, and they had like one copy, and I was like, Yes! So I went and I bought it! I read it, and I did, pretty, pretty immediately I was like, Oh, I’m hooked.

Sarah: Yep! And that’s a –

Gaby: [Laughs] This is so good!

Sarah: That’s a beefy book. Like, that’ll keep you occupied for a good while.

Gaby: So true! And it gets really good at the end? Like, the last like sixty pages for some reason is, like, so much happens, so you’re like – and luckily, at the time, the, I think the, I think all four, four-ish books were out, so I had a lot of reading to catch up on. So I got super into it.

I, I resisted TikTok for a long time, but around the time that I got this book, I also got TikTok for the first time –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: – and I was watching a lot of really cute, like, baking videos where people just have music; they, their, their faces aren’t even in it; it’s just their hands; it’s just the food. It’s like ASMR, and I was like, Oh my God! I love this; I love how cozy it makes me feel! And I really just wanted, and it was like, well, what if I, like, I love these books; I love, like, some of the chocolate recipes. It’s, Sarah Maas fans and her books are so good. I was like, What if I just, like, make a video? And I made it, and it was like the, that was the, probably one of the first videos I ever made regarding, like, a romantasy series, and it, and it got a lot of support from people, and they real-, people really liked it, and from there I was like, Well, I can just kind of keep, like, making some. So every week I would make one, and yeah, that’s how I, I gained a little bit of traction on there, and, I mean, I guess the rest is current history. After that, I just kind of, when I had time, I would just post little baking or cooking videos or romantasy-themed videos.

Sarah: I love that, and I also love the idea that you’re, I love the idea that you’re pairing the feelings of the book – and, I mean, romance and rrromantasy both, their job is to make you feel things. Like –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – the whole point of this genre is to induce feelings of intimacy, vulnerability, arousal, charm, you know, limerence. Like, all, all, the whole thing is trying to make you feel things. That’s one of romance’s superpowers. So you’re pairing the feelings created by the book with the feeling of eating nourishing food inspired –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – by the book. Like, you’re adding another sense –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – to the reading experience.

Gaby: Exactly.

Sarah: And I think (a) you picked the right fandom. There are a few ACOTAR fans. They’re just, you know, a, a few – there’s a handful. They’re –

Gaby: Just a few!

Sarah: They’re very quiet on the internet. They don’t –

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: – gather, talk, or anything like that. So it’s hard, you know, it can be hard to find them, but you picked a good fandom.

And more oft-, more importantly, I think you are hitting right at a trend that is happening with books. I mentioned earlier the special editions. For a lot of readers, especially readers on social media, reading the book is not enough. There are elements –

Gaby: Mmm.

Sarah: – of having read a book that also involve showing your connection to the book, whether it’s, you know, you talking to camera about it, or showing the, the design that you’ve made inspired by the book or the flat lay about the book. Like, you’re trying, people who are promoting books online are often trying to invoke the feeling of that book –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – or what the book made them feel. And –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – I’m, I’m a blogger, so I’m using words, and a podcaster, so I’m using audio, but a lot of other people are using visual. And here, like, I’m going to use taste.

Gaby: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Next up, someone’s going to do the, like, romantasy scratch’n’sniff sticker book.

Gaby: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Getting all of the senses involved, right?

Gaby: I know! No, I’ve seen people have, people do a lot. They, they’ve done, like, car scents?

Sarah: Yes! I’ve seen those!

Gaby: …I just saw that, and I was like, Okay, great idea; I kind of need one. But yeah, there’s, I’ve, romantasy fans go really hard with love?

Sarah: They do go really hard! [Laughs]

Gaby: Love? And it’s so different, because, as a kid, like, I remember I loved Harry Potter, but I didn’t have, like, Harry Potter money? Like, I couldn’t go, like, buy all the Harry Potter things that I want. So now, as an adult, like, loving, like, fantasy books, I’m like, Okay, I can cook like a fantasy character, character if I want. I can make my car smell like romantasy –

Sarah: Yes.

Gaby: – characters if I want to.

Sarah: Yes.

Gaby: I can buy all the things to make myself feel like I’m in this book, so I feel like that’s, that’s a, a nice perk, I guess, to being an adult, and also, I guess, healing that inner child a little bit of, like, the things that I wanted as a kid, maybe I, I couldn’t do, but now I can as, as, as a grownup – [laughs] – as a full-grown adult.

Sarah: One of my favorite things about watching the generations after me? ‘Cause I’m, I’m Gen X? And I refuse to ever say crappy things about millenials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha. Like, I’m raising Gen Z; they’re great. One of the things I love about the generations after me is when y’all grew up and got disposable income, the first thing you’d do was, like, go hard in your fandoms.

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t like Porsches; I don’t need a car. Jewelry, bags are fine. No, I want to go hard into my fandoms. I want to cosplay; I want to set up a visual TikTok about it; I want to cook things; I want to make my car smell like Caspian. Like, all of this!

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: Cassian? There’s a Caspian and a Cassian, right?

Gaby: There is a Caspian too, and, like, I think, in, like, Narnia or something. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes! Cass, whatever. That guy. Make your car smell good!

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: Was there a particular book that you found the most easy? Was it ACOTAR because clearly Sarah J. Maas is hungry all the time when she’s writing?

Gaby: [Laughs] That’s what I think too. I was like, Wow, she’s a foodie!

[Laughter]

Gaby: Like, she –

Sarah: Like, you know how sometimes you can see, like, the author’s feelings, or you can sort of see what the author was going through? I’m like, girl was just hungry! Like, all the time!

Gaby: Yes!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Gaby: And she loves chocolate! Like, a lot of her, like, whether it’s a chocolate chip cookie or, like, a chocolate torte, she mentions – or, like, other, in another book she has, like, a hazelnut chocolate cake.

Sarah: Yes.

Gaby: She loves food?

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Gaby: So she makes it really easy, like, and she’s one of the most popular romantasy series, as well. So she’s, like, like, if you’re looking for food mentions, things, she, she’s really good.

Fourth Wing, which is another, like, pretty popular series, she doesn’t mention food as much.

Sarah: No.

Gaby: It’s just not really like a huge part of the universe. Like, it’s mentioned a few different times, but not in the same way as ACOTAR. So yeah, I’d say ACOTAR’s probably like the easiest one to spot food in.

Sarah: And there’s always the book reviews that say, Yeah, this book’s going to make you hungry.

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s definitely –

Gaby: For sure.

Sarah: That’s definitely the process with Sarah J. Maas, yes.

Gaby: For sure.

Sarah: So are you working on another cookbook? Are you working on recipes right now?

Gaby: I’m honestly just trying to promote The Enchanted Feast right now, and, and trying to, in my spare time from my day job, which is very busy right now, trying to just kind of make more recipes and read more and, and just make more videos right now. No other cookbook lined up as of right now, but people like this first one; maybe we could find fifty more recipes, yeah.

Sarah: It’s, and this is a very comprehensive cookbook. It’s not just like snacks?

Gaby: No.

Sarah: I had a, I had an idea for a cookbook called One-Handed Reading? Which sounds really crass on purpose? But what I meant was books where, or recipes where you could hold the book with one hand and eat whatever it is with the other. Like, everything has to be in small, portable pieces, whatever it is? But I do not cook enough small, independent things to make a cookbook. I just think the idea is great.

Gaby: No, it is a good idea. That, that gives me ideas too. Maybe there could be like a spin-off with The Enchanted One-Handed Feast. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes. The, The Enchanted Reading – like, this is what you eat when you, when you’re reading. You know –

Gaby: Exactly.

Sarah: – you don’t need a plate and a fork and two hands. You just snack.

Gaby: Mm, mm, mm.

Sarah: Can I ask you about your work? Not to be a complete freak show, but before I do an interview I do some research. I try to research how you say your name; if you’ve done visual or audio I want to make sure I say it right, and I, you know, look at social media, looked at a lot of recipes. Got hungry, had lunch, came back. And I noticed you graduated last year with your master’s in public policy. Holy cow! Congratulations!

Gaby: Yes, thank you! Yeah, it was funny: right as I finished my master’s, I was like, Hoof! Finally going to have more free time to –

Sarah: [Laughs] Nope, nope!

Gaby: Wrong, wrong.

Sarah: Nope!

[Laughter]

Gaby: I was very wrong! Yes! I have been working since I was fourteen, but I’d say the last eight years, since I’ve been, like, more, like, my professional career. I got into more, like, policy advocacy, community organizing work?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: And the, like, I, I mentioned in my book that I am the daughter of immigrants –

Sarah: Yes.

Gaby: – and that is, like, a big reason for my love of cooking was, like, the culture that comes with food, and Latin culture is huge?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Gaby: So that’s why I love cooking, I love eating, because it was, I, like, ingrained in me since I was young. And a lot of the inequalities I saw growing up as, like, in a daughter of immigrants, you know, you’re, like, you’re poor; there’s a lot of things your parents go through that you see them go through that makes you want to make a difference when you’re older.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: I mean, not for everybody, but at least for me! Made me go into, like, policy work, advocacy work, community organizing? So right now I work for a nonprofit in DC that advocates for, advocates for immigrant rights, so a lot of my work is around language access; immigration know-your-rights, which is basically just constitutional rights; civic engagement –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: – relationship-building with people; power building; and I in particular really loved seeing how people power, how community members kind of come into their own in the community and really advocate for themselves, instead of having somebody like me or another person ask for things that they might want, like really empowering them to do what they want –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: – from their words and from their perspective? So it’s a very busy time, which is like, the book came out like right as things are really heating up with immigration in the country and…

Sarah: I was just going to say, Wow! Your book –

Gaby: Yeah!

Sarah: – release was not really well-timed for your career!

One of my favorite things about leaving, living in the DC area: I’ve got the Salvadorian truck, the Ecuadorian truck –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – the Costa Rican truck, the Colombian truck, the –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – Mexican truck, and then I’ve got, like, the trucks that are like, We have all of the food. Do you want tacos –

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and pupusas? And – what do you want? ‘Cause we’ve got it.

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: I love how much food community there is around here.

Gaby: Yes. There is so much food around where I live. Like, I can go up the street, and there’s like – [laughs] – there’s like five different cuisines from five different countries in one little shopping center. It’s –

Sarah: Oh yes.

Gaby: – so nice. I, yeah, I love, I love the diversity of culture and food, and that is definitely what inspired me, like, to just keep cooking and have it be a creative outlet for me. I’ll also say, I was listening to a few of your podcasts –

Sarah: Thank you!

Gaby: – and I loved how, how many attorneys are, like –

Sarah: Oh my gosh, yes! There are –

Gaby: – books and romances? [Laughs]

Sarah: Everywhere. They, we are, I, I swear this genre’s like sixty-two percent attorneys or former attorneys. It’s mindblowing.

Gaby: Well, I love…

Sarah: Attorneys and academics. Oh yeah! It’s super great!

Gaby: And it, it made me feel, in a way, better, because a part of me has always felt like people really look down on, like, romance books or, like, rom-, a romantasy genre as, like, Oh, it’s that thing that, like, women like to – like, it’s just, it has this weird negative con-, connotation to some people –

Sarah: Yup!

Gaby: – and I felt, like, odd about being, like, I’m really into romantasy; I even wrote a romantasy cookbook? [Laughs]

Sarah: Yep!

Gaby: And I was like, I love to see other people with, like, careers, but then we also have creative outlets –

Sarah: Yep.

Gaby: – in other things, and that’s okay.

Sarah: I have been writing about romance; the blog is twenty years old this year, so –

Gaby: I know!

Sarah: That is an antiquated technology.

Gaby: [Laughs]

Sarah: But the denigration of romance, the readers, the writers, the genres that are popular, that is, that is never-ending. It is getting less and less and less. Like, when, twenty years ago, indie booksellers, like, people who owned independent bookstores and the booksellers in the indie bookstores would not stock romance. They looked down on it, they did not like it, and I remember having to have conversations with people like, Do you understand that you’re losing money?

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, and, and there was, there’s always this sort of denigration and disapproval. And Nora Roberts once said, and I think she’s very right, that romance, including romantasy, is the hat trick of easy targets: they’re about emotions, relationships, and sex –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – or intimacy. And it’s really easy to, to, to look down on those, and romantasy readers, y’all! Y’all are going through it right now, because romantasy has become almost this shorthand for fairy porn books that ladies like? The way –

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: – Fabio used to be the icon for oh, all the romance novels that, that are historical that women like. Like, you guys are going through it; you are, like, dead center of the, of the, of the, the denigration toilet, which is the worst. Been there; hate it –

Gaby: I know.

Sarah: – don’t like it.

Gaby: No.

Sarah: But the thing about readers is that you are – what I think is so great is that by creating a cookbook, you are giving readers another way to find community.

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Especially because a lot of your recipes, they make a lot of food, and you should not, you don’t want to eat all that by yourself! You should have friends over and start a bunch of books!

Gaby: No, I know!

Sarah: Your, your book –

Gaby: Yeah!

Sarah: – your cookbook is a perfect book club book.

Gaby: Oh! I know! That’s what I was hoping, and I was like, Cookbook people, romantasy people! If you need some ideas, just pick it up; I swear it’ll give you lots of ideas and fun things for y’all to eat and just chat about.

Sarah: What recipes did not make it into the cookbook?

Gaby: Oh, that’s a good question! Hmmm. I didn’t make the chocolate, my first ever video, the chocolate torte…

Sarah: Yeah?

Gaby: – recipe. I kept that one to myself as, like, a, oh, maybe like some special, like, just to keep it for, for me and not give it away, I guess, in a book. The other one was, there is a stew recipe in here –

Sarah: Mm-hmm?

Gaby: – but I made a video about a particular stew that was based off of a recipe that my mom grew up making us all the time, which is carne guisa, which is literally just like a Latino version of, of, like, a beef stew. But I kept that recipe for myself as well, and I, I, I used a different one for the book. So that’s two that didn’t really make it in just ‘cause I selfishly just wanted to keep some of them for me. Maybe one day I’ll put them out there, but –

Sarah: I get it. Also, carne guise that is…

Gaby: Yes, it’s… [Laughs]

Sarah: Are you still making videos? Are you still going to be reading romantasy and pairing it with food on TikTok?

Gaby: Yes! I want to get back, back into it. I feel like I took a little break while I was writing this book. It was hard, ‘cause it was so much food being consumed, but I couldn’t share a lot of it?

Sarah: Of course!

Gaby: And then right now, being so busy with, like, my day job, it’s hard to fit in, fit in reading. I’ve been audiobook-ing a little bit more?

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Gaby: So yes, as soon as I have time – [laughs] – I want to continue reading my favorite genre and books, and as recipes come up, I would love to make them. I even think at one point I was, like, reading through ACOTAR, and every kind of recipe that would come up, I would make? So I might go back to that, ‘cause people seem to really enjoy that. But yeah, the plan is to just keep making videos forever, ‘cause it, it’s always been a creative outlet for me? And I wanted to keep being that –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: – instead of, like, something that I, I really hate the feeling of, like, selling things to people?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: It, it doesn’t do well, because it’s not authentic to me?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: So yeah, I’m going to go back to that as soon as I can.

Sarah: But also, having a cookbook means that all of the acts of generosity you share online of making a recipe and teaching people how to make it, they could further support you by buying your cookbook and –

Gaby: Exactly!

Sarah: – take all your recipes home. It all –

Gaby: Yes!

Sarah: – goes together. Yeah.

Gaby: Yes! More, more money to, to, to buy more food –

Sarah: Right? Yeah.

Gaby: – to make more things.

Sarah: Of the books that you wrote about, do you think you could rank them in order of which ones are your favorite?

Gaby: Oooh! Yes, let me see.

Sarah: She’s like, Yes, obviously.

Gaby: Yeah…

Sarah: I’m a romantasy reader –

Gaby: Yeah, I –

Sarah: – I do this to fall asleep at night. [Laughs]

Gaby: Yes. I will say I think ACOTAR’s still my number one. I’m waiting for something to dethrone it. So far, nothing has yet. Sorry. [Laughs] I would say ACOTAR; then I’d say second was Emily Wilde.

Sarah: I love those books.

Gaby: They’re so cute! They’re so cute. I love them. I’d say I’m still reading through the Throne of Glass series, so I’d put that third, and then maybe fourth would be Fourth Wing. Ooh! Fourth for Fourth Wing.

Sarah: Makes sense.

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: It is important to rank these things.

Gaby: Yes, it is. [Laughs]

Sarah: And I, I just, I think it’s so, so charming that you developed a whole cookbook full of recipes inspired by or mentioned in these, in these books –

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – when it’s another way to show how much you love what you’re reading.

Gaby: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: It’s another creative expression that furthers your connection to the books you’re reading, because you’re really taking a deep dive.

Gaby: Exactly.

Sarah: Where did you learn to cook? Did you learn from your mom?

Gaby: Mm-hmm. I learned from my mom, who, my mom grew up with her grandma in Guatemala, and my grandma, both of my parents lived on farms growing up, so it was very rural, and basically, like, anything they would eat had to be cooked at home. So my, my grandma, my, well, my great-grandma used to cook a lot with, like, basically with sourdough. [Laughs] Like, a sourdough starter?

Sarah: Just made some yesterday.

Gaby: And my mom would just – yeah! – and my mom would just tell me all of the different recipes and food that she would help her grandma make, and then when she came here she cooked a lot and baked a lot too. We would watch the Food Network together a lot. A lot of Rachael Ray, a lot of Giada, and we would just, like, cook and bake together growing up. Banana breads.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Gaby: Different, like, random recipes that, she would clean houses, so the people she’d clean houses for would give her, like, little recipe cards. Oh, like, Oh, go try this; so she’d come home and I’d try it with her. And then yeah, as I grew up I just started cooking and baking more for myself and making more things, and I still do now! [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s lovely!

Gaby: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So what are the items in your kitchen that you will absolutely not live without? Like, someone tries to take this, and they’re going down?

Gaby: [Gasps] I mean, a knife. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh yeah. Chef’s knife is very important.

Gaby: I need a knife for, like, everything. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes!

Gaby: I’d say a knife; I’d say a good mixing bowl.

Sarah: Yes, for sure.

Gaby: Ai-yi-yi, you need a good mixing bowl. And then I’d say a good, like, a wooden, like, mixing spoon?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: Like, those, like, big ones that you use for baking.

Sarah: Yep.

Gaby: Those are always neat. And then, honestly, like, soap and a sponge.

Sarah: Yes, ‘cause you’ve got to clean all those things.

Gaby: There’s lots of dish – that’s something that people don’t see: all the dishwashing and cleaning that goes into cooking.

Sarah: Oh my gosh. I –

Gaby: Drives me nuts.

Sarah: I read, in an article, that The Great British Bake-Off, it’s, you know, it’s in a tent –

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: – and it does not have air conditioning, and they have water tanks for everyone’s station. So those little sinks, they have water tanks underneath. Those aren’t –

Gaby: Oh, I see.

Sarah: – piped, and they have somebody who’s in another tent hand washing everything, because they can’t have –

Gaby: Ohhh!

Sarah: – the noise of a dishwasher?

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, you know those restaurant-style dishwashers where you put everything on a tray and then it, like, goes into a tiny little washing garage and then comes out like five seconds later, and it’s, like, hot and clean? They can’t do that ‘cause it’s too noisy.

Gaby: Awww!

Sarah: So there’s, there’s a person whose job it is to hand wash everything that the bakers use, and I’m like, when it’s thirteen bakers that is so much mess!

Gaby: Yeah. I’m like, Wow, I hope they’re compensated handsomely, because it’s –

Sarah: I hope so.

Gaby: – one of my least favorite things –

Sarah: Oh.

Gaby: – is the cooking and, and dishwashing afterwards.

Sarah: Oh yeah. I, I got converted early to my husband’s way of doing it, which is to wash as you go? The minute you have a pause, wash something. ‘Cause if you’re done and you’re full and you’re happy and then you have this mountain of dishes, it’s sucks.

Gaby: Yeah. No, that is the smarter way to go. I’m always like, Yeah, I’ll get, I’ll get to it later. And then I don’t get to it later. So. [Laughs]

Sarah: So I have a recipe question for you.

Gaby: Okay.

Sarah: It’s, it’s like, it’s 4:30 in the afternoon; you’re hungry; you haven’t planned anything; what are you going to make?

Gaby: [Gasps] I know it already! [Laughs] It’s not a romantasy-themed one, but I feel like I should maybe make a, a romantasy-themed one? Do you know that, have you heard of the Meghan Markle, like, that pasta dish that she made?

Sarah: Oh yeah! The, the one-pot pasta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Gaby: I’ve made different versions of that where, like, instead of the spinach that she uses, I, I use, like, broccoli, and it tasted super good?

Sarah: Oooh!

Gaby: But yeah, that’s, like, such an easy, like, pantry throw-together.

Sarah: Yep.

Gaby: Like, tired from work; I just need to eat something –

Sarah: Yep.

Gaby: – right now. That’s probably the easiest one, and it does, and it, it did taste pretty good.

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: What else do I like to make? I also like making, like, one-pan chicken recipes of where you have chicken and your veggies and your potatoes, and it all just goes into the oven ‘cause it’s like super easy to throw in?

Sarah: Ah. Cooking root vegetables like potatoes and carrots under chicken is so good, because they get so much flavor?

Gaby: It’s so yummy! And then I also love, I guess this would also be one of the items that if you took from me I would fight you?

[Laughter]

Gaby: There’s this, like, company; they’re called Josu Salt; they’re, like, Korean salts, but they’re, like, Korean salt that has a lot of seasoning in it?

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: So they have really cool ones; like, they have one that has, it’s like a cinnamon-vanilla salt? So it’s salty but also has, like, some different kind of sweet notes in there? And then they also have, like, a garlic and chive version that is so yummy?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Gaby: And I love, that’s like such a good – like, if you don’t know what you want your food to taste like and you, like, don’t have the brain to think about flavors?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: Just grab one of the jars that they have and just add it to your food, and then it, like, does the job for you –

Sarah: Go…

Gaby: – and they’re so yummy. Yeah, I love those.

Sarah: Those are delicious.

Gaby: Mm-hmm?

Sarah: So I know you mentioned that you’re reading Throne of Glass right now. Are there any other books that you are reading or you have read recently that you would love for people to know about? I am at heart a books, a books podcast, so I always like to ask for what you’re reading…

Gaby: That’s a good question. I am trying to read through some of the, like, TikTok recommendations that people have. So I started Divine Rivals, which is more of like a Young Adult kind of romance book.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: It’s about, like, a – she becomes, it’s like a journalist, but –

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: – like, a war correspondent.

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: I actually really am, like, on the last few chapters? I’ve really enjoyed it! It surprised me with how much I, I enjoyed this book. Not as, like, romantasy, spicy heavy? But I, I still really, I still really, really liked it.

I also read, I think it’s A Fellowship of Bakers and Magic? So, I think, like, from what I’ve seen, she initially released the books with no publisher, and then I think some publisher might, might have picked her books up, and now they’re getting, like, republished? ‘Cause she has like a, it’s already like a three-part series, but they’re getting, like, republished, so.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Gaby: I read A Fellowship of Bakers and Magic, and this was really cute because it’s definitely more like slice-of-life cozy? And it has recipes at the end of it. It’s kind of like Great British Bake-Off themed.

Sarah: Yep.

Gaby: …more. I thought this was super cute, and I’m about to start reading the second book, so.

Sarah: Oh, that’s excellent!

Gaby: Yeah.

Sarah: You might like Ursula Vernon’s, it’s a, it’s T. Kingfisher – it’s Ursula Vernon writing as T. Kingfisher – A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking?

Gaby: Ooh!

Sarah: Yeah!

Gaby: Oh!

Sarah: That is entirely up your street, right?

Gaby: To defensive baking!

Sarah: Yes. It’s about a fourteen-year-old named Mona. She is part of the wizards who protect a city, and she can’t do any of the things they can do. Her familiar is a sourdough starter, and she has bread magic, and she has a life in her aunt’s bakery, she’s totally chill, she’s like, I make gingerbread men, and then she finds a dead body on the floor, and she has to figure out who’s preying on magic folk, and she’s the type of character that is always underestimated but is deeply talented?

Gaby: Wooow!

Sarah: Yes, but the –

Gaby: That’s so cute!

Sarah: – the bread magic was one of my favorites. Like, I just –

Gaby: That sounds amazing!

Sarah: – just love it.

Gaby: I need to do that right now. [Laughs]

Sarah: For sure.

Where can people find you if you wish to be found?

Gaby: They can find me on Instagram and TikTok. It’s HappyGabyCooking, ‘cause I’m happy when I’m cooking usually. And yeah, I’m still posting on both of those weekly-ish, as much as I can –

Sarah: Yeah.

Gaby: – so yeah. It would be great if people followed if they want to, and I just try to make fun little cooking videos and, and hope that it makes other people feel as cozy as I feel when I watch other people’s baking videos.

Sarah: And making those videos takes a lot of time!

Gaby: It does.

Sarah: Especially the editing?

Gaby: The editing – yeah, I’d say each video takes – depending on what I make, and if it’s a cake, I mean, the other day I made an ice cream cake I just posted that actually took like two days –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Gaby: – to fully make, because you have to – it, it was a whole thing. And then the video is like less than thirty seconds long.

Sarah: Yep. Yep!

Gaby: So yeah, it, it takes a lot of time, and I put a lot of effort into them, so I’d love if people, like, watch them and enjoy them as much as I like making them!

Sarah: Yes, for sure.

Thank you so much for doing this interview, and congratulations again on your cookbook. It’s so great!

Gaby: Thank you so much for having me! I’m so, I’m so happy I was able to be on the podcast. Like I said, I listened to a few episodes; I really loved it. It really illuminated me.

Sarah: Thank you!

Gaby: I was like, I love that I, that there are more romance – [laughs] – big fans out there, so thank you –

Sarah: Yeah, so many –

Gaby: – for having me.

Sarah: – romance fans out here. And so many romantasy podcasts, too.

Gaby: Yes! I can’t wait to read, to listen to…

Sarah: Thank you for adding to the creative ways that we who love reading romance and romantasy can interact with our books, because I think that’s an invaluable part of the fandom, to have lots of different ways to marry your passions and the things you love with the books that you’re reading.

Gaby: I’m also –

Sarah: And I think that’s so important, so thank you for doing that!

Gaby: Oh, you’re welcome! I’m glad I was able to add, add a little more.

[outro]

Sarah: That brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Gaby for connecting with me. I have read The Enchanted Feast a few times. I have bookmarked several recipes. You can find this book wherever books are sold, or you can ask your library to order it. Every way you talk about a book helps. Don’t forget that.

As a friendly reminder, I will have a link in the show notes to our Patreon collection of free content that you can try out at any time. I already know some folks who have taken a deep dive into the 1997 issue of RT. The report back I heard was, Wow, that’s a lot of glamour shots. Yes, yes, it is a lot of glamour shots.

I also wanted to let you know this July we’re not doing a Romantic Times Rewind because I have so many awesome interviews that I want to share with you, including an upcoming interview with Nalini Singh, Valerie Bowman, and Jo Piazza, whose book blew my mind. We’ll be back in August with more episodes where we recap the strangest romance magazine that ever existed.

I always end with a bad joke, and this week I have two! Because one I thought was a little too Gen X, which, you know, I am Gen X, but maybe you are not, so I have two jokes for you to share with all your friends and enemies.

First: why do bakers always make great friends?

Give up? Why do bakers always make good friends?

Well, they’re all about loaf and kindness.

[Laughs] I personally, I’m very all about loaf; I’ll be honest.

And for the Gen X folks: what is a baker’s favorite INXS song?

Give up? What’s a baker’s favorite INXS song?

I knead you tonight.

I, I can hear you groaning from here. [Laughs] It’s so bad!

On behalf of everyone here, I wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we’ll see you back here next week! And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]