672. Part III of A Soul to Keep with Heaving Bosoms

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there, and welcome to episode number 672 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Melody from Heaving Bosoms is joining me, and welcome to part three of A Soul to Keep, a crossover episode with Heaving Bosoms. Every now and again I get to do a crossover with Melody, and we pick a truly bonkers sexy book, and we recap it across two shows, and in this case it’s three shows. So hello, Heaving Bosoms listeners; I’m so happy you’re here!

Melody got this title from me. I suggested A Soul to Keep, Duskwalker Brides, book one by Opal Reyne, because it was taking up a lot of room in my brain and I needed to discuss it with somebody, so thank goodness Melody emailed me and we had like three hours to talk about it. I picked this up because I was curious about all the monster-fucking, and this seemed like a type of mythological being that I knew a little bit about? But I just need to be clear: this is so Not Safe For Work? Like, seriously. Not for the kids in the car, this one. Just whoof! Trust me. Second, if you want the full recap, you can check out Heaving Bosoms episodes part one and two this week. I will have links in the show notes so you can start there and come back if you wish.

I have a compliment this week.

To Jenny S.: Whatever you bring to a potluck is everyone’s favorite, and everyone wants the recipe. Just like everyone at the potluck wants to be your friend, because you are everyone’s favorite.

If you would like a compliment of your very own or you’d like to support this here show, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. There’s a happy pile of benefits, including full PDF scans of old issues of RT magazine, a wonderful Discord community, and you’re supporting this here show and making sure that every episode has a transcript handcrafted by garlicknitter. Hi, garlicknitter! [Hi! – gk] And if Patreon is not what you are looking for, may I humbly request you leave a review for the show where you listen, or just tell some people about it. Definitely tell them about this one, and start explaining what is happening in this book. They’ll definitely want to listen to all of the episodes and join both of our Patreons and be fans forever! No question. Most of all, thank you for being here and thank you for listening.

All right, shall we get started? I don’t see any reason to wait. It’s time; it’s time for part three of A Soul to Keep, Duskwalker Brides, with Melody from Heaving Bosoms.

[music]

Melody: And it gets to the point where she wakes up because he’s making so many, like, movements and sounds and stuff –

Sarah: Yeah, he’s trying –

Melody: – you know?

Sarah: – not to grind, but he’s grinding, basically.

Melody: But he’s grinding.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: Yeah. And so she, he says, I’m trying not to bother you, and she says, What? No, bother me! Absolutely! Like, this is not a thing. And then she says words that I would never ever say out loud –

Sarah: This stopped me –

Melody: – in my life.

Sarah: – too. This stopped me right there.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m like, Girl?!

Melody: What are you doing? [Laughs] She says, Take me! Take me any time you want. She’s like, he’s like, Anytime? She’s like, Any time! Anywhere! And he’s like, Anywhere? She’s like, Yeah! Anytime, anywhere! He enters her, they have sex, and she’s like, she thinks to herself, very sleepily, I hope I don’t regret those words.

[Laughter]

Melody: Ohhh.

Sarah: Girl.

Melody: Listener –

Sarah: Girl.

Melody: – she regrets it.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: But, like, not in a bad way.

Sarah: No. But, like, you’ve got to think about what you’re offering a creature that has been alone for eons, to the point where he comes and it’s like a swimming pool.

Melody: And that you have not been able to observe his sexual rhythms and, and, you know, levels and satiation and stuff. Like, you have no idea what his body requires sexually! [Laughs]

Sarah: And you don’t know what his concept of sexual positions is. Like, does he want to, like –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – you know, fuck your nostril? That’s going to be a problem!

Melody: Right!

Sarah: He’s not going to stick his –

Melody: Right, right, right!

Sarah: – stick his claws in your head?

Melody: Does anywhere mean in your body or around the house? Like, what does that mean to him? You don’t know! You don’t know!

Sarah: No! You, you need –

Melody: Oh God!

Sarah: – to be specific in the terms of your contract!

Melody: That’s right.

Sarah: Very important life lesson here!

Melody: I mean, mostly it’s great –

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: – okay. It’s just like, she’ll be cutting some carrots and then she’s pressed against the counter and, boy, he’s in her! And then, you know, she’ll be doing something else, and he’ll, like, turn her around and be like, Yeah, you’re with me now. Because, like, she kisses him; like, she ends up tonguing with him –

Sarah: Yes, he, she –

Melody: – we forgot to tell them, I think?

Sarah: She licks his tongue, and he nearly loses his mind, because she’s kissing him, and then when he’s using his tongue, which seems to have a lot of not only just taste but also sensing, like he’s –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – tasting and feeling her with his tongue, she licks his tongue, and I thought he was going to pass out, he was so excited.

Melody: Oh yeah! Because nobody has ever, like, it, like, initiated or, or altered their affection to fit him, right? So the fact that he knows that she would usually kiss a being with lips –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – but the only way he can make out is just to slaver his tongue all over her face, and, and she opens up and slavers back?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: You know, slathers? I don’t know if that’s a –

Sarah: Slobbers? Slithers?

Melody: Slobbers with a B?

Sarah: She, she slobbers on the slithering, that’s for sure.

Melody: It’s the one, yeah.

Sarah: Yep. Sorry, guys.

Melody: Anyway, he’s just, like, floored that this would happen and she’s meeting him where he is, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: So, like, they’re – it gets to the point where we turn the page, and apropos of nothing, this poor, anxiously attached boy is like, She’s mad at me again, and I really this time don’t know what I did! Like, last time I was confused, and this time I’m baffled! And he’s, like, racking his brain. Finally, it gets to the point, and it’s because for the first time in like a week, she went and slept in her own room without talking to him about it. She has been in his bed the whole time, and so he thinks he’s done something wrong! So he goes up, and he basically, like, crawls up to the side of her bed. [Laughs]

Sarah: And puts his little chin on the side of her bed and whimpers?

Melody: And he whimpers at her!

Sarah: And he whimpers like – [whimpers]. Like, when I go upstairs and my dog forgets that I’m in the house, and he just lies on the floor and cries –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – ‘cause he thinks I’ve left the Earth, and I’m like, Bro, I’m up the stairs. I mean, he’s seventeen and blind, so it’s fair. But, like, it’s the same thing. Like –

Melody: This, this guy is emotionally intelligently blind, right? Like, this is – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yes. He has no emotional interpretation skills, and also is probably not –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – he’s probably experiencing so many feelings that he hasn’t felt in a long time or ever before?

Melody: Yes!

Sarah: And also he’s receiving emotions that he’s never received from a human, because you start to hear –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – bits and bits and pieces of the woman who kept reappearing to him on the spider, and –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – Reia – Reia, Reia? – starts –

Melody: Reia finds out.

Sarah: Reia starts asking questions like, What about her?

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: Who is this? And he doesn’t really want to talk about her? He doesn’t want to engage about it, but she’s like, Some-, there’s a story there. There’s a story there. Something, something is going on.

Melody: And up until this point, I think the two things she knows are that she was with him for five years –

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: – and that she is the one he took to the demon village, which was a mistake.

Sarah: Yes, and she’s the one who –

Melody: And that’s all she knows.

Sarah: – gave him his name. That’s the other thing. She named him –

Melody: Oh, yes.

Sarah: – Orpheus.

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And she’s like, I just, I want to know! Please tell me. And he’s like, Well, I, I wanted her soul, and she said no, and she wasn’t ready; I hadn’t done enough to earn it. And that’s when you start to realize that this human –

Melody: Oh my God!

Sarah: – was being very extractive.

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: She just wanted him to do things, and he was accepting like scraps of her attention. Which is why –

Melody: Because he realizes, like, at the end of this book, that this –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – Reia is the first human who has smiled at him at all –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – and he’s like, Wait a minute! I wasn’t – now I, now that I understand what affection is –

Sarah: Yes!

Melody: – and what reciprocation is?

Sarah: Exactly that, yes.

Melody: I’m realizing that, like, this lady, I, there were signs that I just couldn’t see because of the, like, his developmental level, essentially.

Sarah: I did not understand. And it’s like –

Melody: Yes!

Sarah: – how, it’s like how a lot of young people get into very unhealthy relationships that can become –

Melody: Mmm.

Sarah: – abusive, because you just don’t understand how to have a healthy partnership, ‘cause you’ve never done it before. So she is –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – clearly taking advantage of him and abusing him, and he thinks that’s how it’s supposed to be.

Melody: And he doesn’t know.

Sarah: Which is why he’s so –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – flummoxed by the idea that Reia reciprocates and demonstrates that she wants him to touch her without her having to receive a gift first.

Melody: Right, right!

Sarah: There’s no transactional element to her affection, and he does not get it.

Melody: Not to mention that, especially since there’s no transactional element, when she is upset with him, he doesn’t know how to fix it.

Sarah: No.

Melody: With the other human he could, like, bring her something, and she would be like, Okay, cool. And with Reia he’s like, I, I want, I, I want to make her happy so badly, and I really need to know. So he’s whimpering with his chin on the side of her mattress, and she’s like, Orpheus? She wakes up, and he’s like, Why are you mad at me? She’s like, What? I’m not mad!

Sarah: I’m not mad at you; I’m sleeping! I’m busy right now.

Melody: I’m just, I’m just really tired. And he’s like, Wait, you’re not mad at me? But you’re sleeping in here! And she goes, Oh! Well – [laughs] – look, man. I’m exhausted –

Sarah: I need sleep.

Melody: – and –

Sarah: And –

Melody: Yeah, and, and if I go to sleep with you –

Sarah: Not sleeping.

Melody: – you always wake me up in the middle of the night. And he’s like, What? And she’s like – he, he says, like, You told me I could! You didn’t tell me you didn’t want to. And she’s like, Nonono! No, it’s fine. I know that.

Sarah: I do want to!

Melody: It was great –

Sarah: But I also need sleep!

Melody: – but in this moment, I need a hard reset –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – and so I’m going to, I just, I’m just going to sleep in my bed!

Sarah: I’ve got to go to bed.

Melody: And, and he’s like, Wait, but you can, but I don’t want you to sleep separately. All you need to do is tell me –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – that you don’t want to have sex and, and, like, we won’t, though. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: And she goes, Oh! Okay, well, if you want to just sleep, then let’s go to your room! And he’s so desperate for her that he’s like, No, no, no, you stay there, you stay comfy; and he, like, tries to get into her twin bed with her?

Sarah: Yeah. Which, no.

Melody: And he’s like, Anything that you need, I will do. And he does; he snuggles her all night, and she realizes that, like, all, I mean, it wasn’t, she wasn’t even afraid of, like, hurting his feelings –

Sarah: No!

Melody: – or anything like that. She was just like, This felt like the easiest thing to do, but he needs the reassurance of that communication. And she gets way better about it, and that –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – and that he won’t feel any sort of way – ‘cause in the morning, he doesn’t try to put any moves on her. He’s just like, I’m going to care for you; we’re snuggling; I’m going to feed you breakfast in bed. Like, you rest up, whatever you need. And she realizes that, like, it’s never going to be an issue, whether or not she wants to have sex. She just needs to communicate the way she wants to receive affection, and he will be happy with that. As long as he gets to show her affection. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: Like –

Sarah: She wants to, he wants to hug her and squeeze her and call her George.

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: It’s just, he just –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – needs the contact.

Melody: Oh my God. Oh my God, listener; I forgot to tell you, we forgot to tell you one of the most important things that happens in the book really quickly, and that is that after the one time she told him that he can do her anytime he wants, anywhere he wants, when she wakes up she realizes she feels a little full and, like, her bladder is, has extra pressure on it? And then she realizes that it’s because he’s still inside her! [Laughs] He’s just cockwarming! And she’s like, It’s not even sexual.

Sarah: No, it’s, it’s –

Melody: He just wants a connection!

Sarah: What’s, isn’t that called soaking? Is that what that’s called? I think that’s called soaking. Like when you –

Melody: Or cockwarming.

Sarah: Cockwarming. Yeah.

Melody: I think soaking is explicitly sexual.

Sarah: Right, right, right. Cockwarming –

Melody: Cockwarming is not.

Sarah: – is like me putting it in the snuggy. Yeah.

Melody: Yeah – yeah, exactly.

Sarah: It’s a, it’s a –

Melody: And so –

Sarah: – dick cozy. It’s like a koozie for your beer, but except it’s for your giant monster cock. And I just need you to know, guys –

Melody: For that monster…

Sarah: – I’m holding my hands –

[Laughter]

Sarah: – like I’m trying to grip something very wide. My bad.

Melody: It’s bigger than a softball is what it is.

Sarah: It’s very, very large.

Melody: Well, and when she asks him about it, he’s like, It just needs to be in a wet, warm place. It doesn’t matter if it’s in my wet, warm place or your wet, warm place. Like, it’s just –

Sarah: Can’t let it dry out!

Melody: – it’s cared for either way, so, like, I thought this was okay; and she’s like, No, it’s, it is totally okay! [Laughs] Like, I –

Sarah: It’s, it’s great!

Melody: – I like it!

Sarah: I just need to use the toilet/chamber pot –

Melody: I just have to go pee.

Sarah: – we have no idea. Is there a chamber pot?

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: Is there a toilet?

Melody: It’s a chamber pot…

Sarah: It’s a chamber pot, right? Yeah, that’s right.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: So –

Melody: Okay.

Sarah: – then –

Melody: Now –

Sarah: – shit hits the fan.

Melody: [Sighs] Yes. It’s time for shit to hit the fan.

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: He is excited because he’s going to go again; he’s going to go get her water –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – right now. The stream is like an hour away, and so she’s like, Yeah, I’ll hang out here. It’ll be good; I’m just going to swish and swash my sword. Because, you know, now she’s using that book? [Laughs] She, she’s realizing the, the stances that you have to be in, in order to do it right?

Sarah: I just need you all to know that swish and swash your sword nearly made me spit beverage everywhere. It was a near thing; it was very bad.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: Very, very bad. But this where she’s using the book that she got to learn –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – how to properly fight, because he doesn’t know.

Melody: And she’s been reading to him! Oh my God, we forgot to tell them she’s been reading to him. He’s been putting his lap, his head on her lap, and she’s been reading to him. I’m so sorry. Okay.

Sarah: It’s so, so, so, so cute.

Melody: [Laughs] It’s so cute!

Sarah: It’s so –

Melody: Okay, but –

Sarah: – cute.

Melody: – but now shit has to hit the fan.

Sarah: Right.

Melody: Sorry.

Sarah: So she’s, she’s learning how to swing and swash her sword, which I will never get over –

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and oh, shit! Someone, another person has shown up. Another person –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – has rolled in to upset the tranquility of her little life with cabin and fucking. And it’s –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – the demon king.

Melody: She figures out it’s the demon king! It’s the fucking demon king!

Sarah: Ohhhhh shit! And –

Melody: So I think at this point, doesn’t she also know that the lady left?

Sarah: Yes. She knows that the lady who was with him, who hurt him so badly, left with the demon king.

Melody: Left with the demon king, yes.

Sarah: But she kind of thinks that the demon king took her.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: And –

Melody: She doesn’t know, right? She has –

Sarah: Right.

Melody: – no other context.

Sarah: So Orpheus thinks she left him, and he’s like, Why did she leave me? Why didn’t I do good enough? Why was, why didn’t she care about me? Why did she leave?

Melody: Yeaahh.

Sarah: And she’s not sure –

Melody: And when he goes –

Sarah: Yeah, he, she’s not sure if she left or if she, or if she was taken, but –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – this is the guy involved, and he’s bad news.

Melody: Exactly. And I don’t know if we know this now or later, but now that I’m thinking about, I’m just going to tell them –

Sarah: It’s fine.

Melody: – just in case we forget. When he, like, you know, lopes all the way to the demon king’s castle to get who we find out is Katerina, the first woman? She looked at him, dead in his skull face, and she said that she hated him?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: And she hated every moment of being with him –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – and she only, like, did it to survive, and he’s horrible, and all of that, and so – and he leaves so confused –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – because he really thought that he was doing everything to make her happy. He literally was. All of his actions were only surrounded, like, all it was to do was make her happy.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: And so the fact that she secretly hated him the whole time is one of the most devastating and confusing things he will ever experience in his immortal life. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: Like, it’s really bad.

Sarah: She’s the reason he has a house.

Melody: So –

Sarah: She’s the reason he has a garden. She’s the reason that he leveled up and was able to care for other humans, because she, she’s like, I’m not going to stay in a cage. You need to build me a house. So she –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – leveled him up, but was doing so out of self-preservation and cruelty, and –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – she hated him. She never – and apparently, they got together –

Melody: They also had sex.

Sarah: – but –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – you remember, you remember in Outlander when Claire sees somebody else with a smallpox scar? It’s like that, but it’s claw marks on her belly?

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, so she has a, five smallpox scars –

Melody: …it’s magic –

Sarah: – on her belly, indicating that her insides have been rearranged by his monster cock –

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and she’s like, I hated every moment. I hated every…I, I like the sex –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – I hate you. And he –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – had no clue that he was with someone who despised him, which is very disorienting!

Melody: Oh!

Sarah: It’s very sad!

Melody: Truly, yes. It’s, oh, it’s all so sad. Oh my God. So, anyway –

Sarah: So the demon king rolls up, and –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – demon king kidnaps Reia.

Melody: Yeah. And he can teleport, guys, because he’s eaten elves before, ‘cause elves are real. She’s realizing, like, the, the –

Sarah: Surprise.

Melody: – the book of stories that the owl witch sent to her included elves? So she’s like, Oh my God, other shit –

Sarah: Everything in this book –

Melody: – is –

Sarah: – that I got from the shop –

Melody: – it exists!

Sarah: – is, all of this is real. So the, the –

Melody: Right!

Sarah: – the owl witch was trying to educate her.

Do you need to go, and do you want to pick this back up another day?

Melody: No. I forgot to tell you. My, my husband texted me. He got the kids. He was, he managed to get back, ‘cause a shipment apparently didn’t come. So I’m –

Sarah: Ah, hate that!

Melody: – totally good.

Sarah: Okay, cool. I’m glad.

Melody: I know. I hate that for him, but yeah, he was able to get back.

Okay. So yeah, she – and, and he tells her, like, I’m here to liberate you.

Sarah: I’m here to free you from him!

Melody: And –

Sarah: And she’s like, I don’t actually want to go! I just want to stand here and practice my sword and have good sex! Fuck are you?

Melody: But the, but the important part is that she never actually says that out loud. She says things like, Even if I wanted to go, I wouldn’t go with you.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And so when she gets to the castle, she meets Katerina and then she’s with the demon king. He teleports them, like, into the throne room. Katerina’s sitting on the throne, and they start, like, bickering back and forth sexily, question mark? And he’s like –

Sarah: It seemed like they’ve been together too long and are stuck together. Like –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: And she also does not sound like an easy person to live with, to be fair?

Melody: No. No, she’s –

Sarah: Mm-mm.

Melody: – rather awful. But anyway, when they, when they, she gets there, she doesn’t know the lay of the land, so she’s very smart, and she doesn’t say anything, and she waits to see, like, what they expect and what they’re planning and why they did this. So Katerina’s trying to be like, Oh, you poor thing. You don’t have to be ashamed about anything; I understand; and, like, you know, You’re, you’re free now. We’re going to make sure that we get you home. And so, you know, Reia just sort of allows her to think that she felt the same way?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: Until she can figure out what the fuck is happening.

Sarah: ‘Cause she knows that she’s in danger and they want to hurt her, because she’s figured out that what the demon king actually wants is Orpheus. He wants –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – to use her as a way to get to him, so she is playing smart and dumb by letting them, you know, talk about their evil plan. It’s time for, you know –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – evil character villain monologue. She’s staying quiet and dumb, or seeming dumb, to make sure she can interfere with whatever they plan to do with Orpheus. She knows she’s in danger, and she knows –

Melody: Yep.

Sarah: – he’s in danger, and she’s trying desperately to figure this out, and none of these people are very good at explaining themselves? [Laughs] So this is a very difficult situation for her to be in!

Melody: Meanwhile, Orpheus smells the demon king on the air, starts just, like, galumphing all the way to the house, because he’s terrified, right? This is all of his worst nightmares coming true, and we find out it’s happened with more than just Katerina. He’s taken other humans before, too! And so he’s like, No, but Reia’s different. Reia’s different; she will have stayed, and then he gets there, and her amulet is on the floor, and her scent is gone –

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: – and he doesn’t know what to do, and he’s – and we watch him talk himself through the difference between Reia and every other human that’s come before her.

Sarah: He has learned –

Melody: So he’s like –

Sarah: – another level of reasoning, yes.

Melody: Yes. Yeah!

Sarah: And he can change –

Melody: And she…

Sarah: – the narrative that he’s telling himself. This is when he stops telling himself that he was the one who failed, that he didn’t make Katerina happy –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – that his misery is his fault, that he is the one to blame.

Melody: Right.

Sarah: He is changing the narrative about himself, just like he taught her, there is no such thing as a harbinger of doom. That’s not even real –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – so you can stop –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – calling yourself that. It’s the same thing.

Melody: Yeah! And in this case he’s saying, Reia is not Katerina. Reia smiles at me; Reia kisses me; Reia, like, you know, initiates affection; Reia –

Sarah: Maybe she’s pegged him –

Melody: – laughs with me.

Sarah: – we don’t know, it’s not in the book, but let’s just assume –

Melody: Maybe!

Sarah: – maybe she did? Maybe she –

Melody: [Indistinct]

Sarah: – gave him a good Jolly Rogering?

Melody: Let’s dream a good dream, you know? And, and so he’s like –

Sarah: He’s got a lot of swords!

Melody: – she wouldn’t –

Sarah: There’s got to be a club, right? [Laughs]

Melody: Yeah! Yeah! So – [laughs] – he’s like, Even if she’s gone – like, okay, she’s gone – there is a chance she didn’t leave of her own volition, and if that’s the case, I have to get to her ASAP. So that four-day trip it says with a determined enough Mavka? He can make it there in a day and a half.

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: Oh, a, a day. Yeah.

Sarah: He is –

Melody: Like a day and a night.

Sarah: – going fast.

Melody: Holy shit. And so, yeah, he just doesn’t listen to his body at all, and he runs all the way there. Meanwhile, she’s killing time trying to, like, hear their nefarious plots and, like, bathing and eating dinner. Oh! Katerina sort of makes her undress in front of her by, like, not leaving and wanting to chat while she’s undressing? And it’s because when they spy on them through this, like, magical demon king orb glass thing, they can’t see into his house because of the trinkets.

Sarah: Right.

Melody: So they could only see what they would do outside, not anything that happens inside. So Katerina hasn’t confirmed whether or not she’s had sex with Orpheus.

Sarah: No.

Melody: And she keeps on saying, like, there’s nothing to be ashamed of, and Reia is so confused at this point, because she hasn’t, she hasn’t connected who Katerina is?

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: So she’s like, This bitch, like, yeah, she’s gorgeous and, like, voluptuous and stuff, but she doesn’t have to be rude and, like, tell me that I don’t need to be ashamed about my body! What if I wasn’t ashamed about my body? Like, Jesus! And then when she gets undressed, Katerina sees it, and she realizes that it’s the scars. And when, and she, and Katerina says, Nonono, like I told you, there’s nothing to be ashamed of, and she pulls up her dress and shows her the same claw marks.

Sarah: She’s got smallpox scars, y’all.

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And Reia’s, like, not loving it, okay? Like, Reia’s – ugh! – she hates it!

Sarah: She’s revolted!

Melody: [Laughs] Yes!

Sarah: She is revolted by the idea that this person had sex with Orpheus. Then she’s like –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – You are the fucking woman. You, he told me about you. And it turns out he was with her two centuries ago, so Katerina is two hundred years old, because –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – she’s been boning the demon king.

Melody: The demon king’s been keeping her alive with all that magic jizz or something –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – you know? We do find out that, like, nobody’s as good at sex as Orpheus is? Because not only – oh! – [laughs] – Sophia – or, Sophia – Katerina’s like, Yeah, he ruined us for any other man. And, and she’s like, I mean, yeah! I knew that, like, I never would be satisfied by a human penis, but, like, who cares? I don’t even want that! And then she’s like, Yeah, not even the demon king can please me all the time. It’s kind of rough now, you know? And, and he did that to me. That’s one of the things he did.

So anyway, they’re here because they’ve just found out how to kill Mavkas and they want to kill him. Her for revenge, and him because, like, they won’t join his army or something. It’s fine.

Sarah: Yeah, the leshens will not – the, the, the leshens – the Duskwalkers will not give him their fealty. Like, he doesn’t rule them –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – and he doesn’t control them, and he would really like to.

Melody: Yes, exactly. Yeah. So they’re just waiting for Orpheus to arrive, and when he does, he, the, she tells the demon king to, like, cloak them so that Orpheus can’t hear them or see them or smell her?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: And, and then she waits for him. And she realizes Katerina is like, Katerina’s like, Well, he’s not going to care that you’re not around, because –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – every other human has just been him trying to replace me. So if he has the original, then, like, why would he give a shit about you? And Reia’s like, That’s not how that works, you maniacal narcissist! But it’s fine. And then, and when he gets there he, like, lopes into the house – the castle; I’m sorry –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – and he uses his sniffer to get all the way to the throne room, and he’s, he does not want to go in there, right –

Sarah: Nope.

Melody: – because it’s clear that she’s just left, and the only other person there is Katerina, and, like, he doesn’t want to have this confrontation. He doesn’t, he doesn’t feel the need for it. Like, he doesn’t want it. So she tries to play like nice and sweet, and she tries to get him to believe that Reia hated him too.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: And so she – but, but, you know, Katerina was, she was hoodwinked, all right? By him all those years ago, and she wanted to come back to Orpheus, but she couldn’t! And so now they can be together again; aren’t you happy about that? And he keeps on being like, Okay, but where’s Reia?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: Like, there is a section of him that’s kind of healing –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – in this moment. But he still wants to know where Reia is, because at the very least he wants to talk to her. Katerina tries to tell him that Reia decided to swap places with her and be the demon king’s concubine so that she could go back to Orpheus?

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And he’s like –

Sarah: And she’s all –

Melody: – Okay –

Sarah: But Katerina’s also figured out by now that Reia had sex with the leshen – I’m sorry, with the Duskwalker – on purpose, that she wanted to.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: She wasn’t forced to do it, which is weird because Katerina does not seem to have reconciled the fact that she did not want to have sex with him, but she enjoyed having sex with him, and now she –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – doesn’t enjoy sex anymore because of him, so it’s one more thing that she hates him for, when really –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – she’s also managing her own, like, conflicted feelings, probably about –

Melody: Of course!

Sarah: – being evil. And so she realizes they’re teasing her about killing Orpheus, and then they realize, Wait a minute, you smell like fear. You’ve never smelled like fear before. And they realize –

Melody: Yes! That’s before he arrives! I’m so sorry; this is important. Yeah. So he –

Sarah: A lot happens in this book. So the demon king –

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and Katerina realize, You are afraid of Orpheus dying. You actually care about him! And she’s like, No, no! No, I don’t!

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Nuh-uh! Not me! Nope! And they’re like, We don’t, we don’t believe you. You –

Melody: You’re a terrible liar.

Sarah: You wanted to have sex with him, and, and Reia’s like, Yep! Actually, yeah, I did, and I certainly begged for his cock the first time, all, tentacles and all, and Katerina is just disgusted.

Melody: Horrified. Yeah.

Sarah: She’s like, So now you know! What are you going to do? What are you going to do with me? And the demon king says –

Melody: Well –

Sarah: – Yeah, we’re going to kill you, but actually, we’re going to make you watch us kill Orpheus, and if you like him so much, then you can see him, see me kill him. And then –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – then I will kill you. So we’re going to –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – torture you by killing this creature that you care about. So these people suck.

Melody: Right. And, and – they’re terrible, but in, in that scene, too, I think maybe beforehand, she is, she’s doing the logic puzzle in her head, right. She understands that when he took Katerina – because he did take her from her house –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – he was like the other Mavka, you know? He wasn’t as evolved –

Sarah: No.

Melody: – and so, he didn’t understand that he was doing anything wrong.

Sarah: Right.

Melody: And she, and so she’s like, Why, why didn’t you just, like, say no? [Laughs] And Katerina’s like, What? I’m sorry; I wanted to live? So, like, no, I wasn’t going to tell the eight-foot-tall monster that I didn’t want to have sex with him. That doesn’t seem like a good course of action. And she realizes that, like, not only is Orpheus different, but she is able to see a different Orpheus because in, in addition to, like, being less evolved, Katerina never would have been able to see past the fact that he is a Duskwalker, period.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: Doesn’t matter how evolved he became. And so she’s like, All I, all she would have had to do was say no, and all I’ve ever had to do is say no, and he bends over backwards to make me happy. And she say, this is when she says, Even though I didn’t know exactly what he was going to do to make his cock fit into me –

Sarah: Right.

Melody: – he did ask me explicitly if I really wanted to do it –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – and I said yes, and I meant it, and I still mean it.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: I still would have done it –

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: – even if he had explained before, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: So, like, that’s where that’s addressed, and it’s – [sighs] – it’s, it’s so conflicting, right, because Katerina is a victim. She was abducted, objectively. She was raped, objectively. But also, he had no concept of the fact that that’s what he was doing? And when he realizes it in this book he’s horrified. This is one of the reasons that –

Sarah: He’s remorseful!

Melody: Oh God!

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: Yeah! And it’s one of the reasons that he’s carried so much self-loathing since she left him, because he, he knows that, like, it, it is his fault.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: You know –

Sarah: He, he –

Melody: – maybe not to the degree that Katerina made him feel? But yeah, it, it is.

Sarah: When he recognized –

Melody: He just wasn’t ready for that step.

Sarah: Yes. And when, and when Orpheus recognizes the difference between Katerina and Reia and sees how Katerina is, he not only accepts that these are not the same people and has a choice in what he does, but he also sees the ramifications of his behavior.

Melody: Mmmm!

Sarah: So, like, he sees the difference in them, but also recognizes the difference in himself between when he was with Katerina and now that he’s with Reia.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: He has learned better and is, and does better!

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: So then they want to kill Orpheus because that’s what they want to do?

Melody: And she is still doing this ruse, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm…

Melody: And he doesn’t fall for it.

Sarah: He, he, she, she took my place so I could be with you! Yeah, it was a trade! I, I’ve missed you; I’ve longed for you. I’ve wished for you to take me back.

Melody: Ah!

Sarah: And he’s like –

Melody: So now you get everything you’ve ever wanted, and he’s like, Is it, though? Like, I, yeah, I did want that at one point, but seeing the differences between Katerina and Reia – Oh! Because Katerina sees his jingle bells on his head, okay, and she takes one and snaps it off of his horn –

Sarah: And she –

Melody: – so that she can, like, look at it and make fun of it?

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: She’s so derisive about it –

Sarah: And she’s –

Melody: – and he’s like –

Sarah: – so jealous!

Melody: Yeah! And he, he thinks to himself, like, Reia would never! She would never think, be so thoughtless and, like, think that her opinion is worth more than anybody else’s and what they own, right? Like, Reia would, it wouldn’t even cross her mind to break a gift, the only gift he’s ever been given.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: And that’s one of the moments where he’s like, No. I don’t want you, Katerina, regardless of what Reia’s doing. I don’t want you –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – so, like, where’s Reia? And that’s when she starts freaking out. Then Reia appears out of nowhere across the room, and her eyes are livid, and she’s sprinting across, and he’s like, Oh no! She’s mad at me! I did a bad, and I wonder what it is. Is it that I didn’t protect her, maybe? That I let her be –

Sarah: She doesn’t want me to be here. She doesn’t want me. She’s mad at me.

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: She doesn’t want me. Yeah.

Melody: But instead of tackling him, she goes right past him and tackles the lady who was holding a knife above his skull!

Sarah: Ahhh!

Melody: ‘Cause Katerina was fixing to do a murder.

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: And he realizes that, like, she would have. With the way that it would have, like, gone into his skull with enough force, it would have shattered, and he would be, like, fully, forever dead.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: So now it’s fight-y times, and oh my God. It’s fight-y times for so long, and, like, it’s really good, but we can’t describe all the swishes or the swooshes, you know? All we know is that Reia gets her sword, she starts going after Katerina, the demon king gives Katerina a sword; he poofs one into her hand. Meanwhile, the demon king and Orpheus are fighting like monsters, and then it ends because they hear a scream and a sploosh? And it’s because Reia put her sword through Katerina’s chest.

Sarah: Oh darn!

Melody: She just puts her on a kabob –

Sarah: Yep.

Melody: – right there in the throne room. And so the demon king, like, freaks out, right, and he is going over there to be like, Oh no! And then Orpheus grabs her, and he’s like, We’re going to go, and the demon king says, oh, because he says, Let’s, let’s not fight. This is how it always ends in a draw.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: Like, you’re, you’re never going to beat me –

Sarah: Neither of us can win. Yeah. We –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: Neither of us can win this.

Melody: So, like, let’s stop. I’m just going to take my human and go. Thank you so much. And the demon king says, Even if I can’t beat you, she killed my human, and I will, I will make you feel that pain.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And then he throws a dagger at Reia and hits her in the back through the heart, probably.

Sarah: She gave a horrible gasp just as a wet shlunk –

Melody: Oh!

Sarah: – S-H-L-U-N-K, shlunk –

Melody: Perfect.

Sarah: – sounded. Yep, yep, that’s bad. So Katerina had been planning to stab him with this dagger, and the demon king just shoves it right in her heart, and she’s dying. He’s conjured a protective shield; Orpheus conjures a protective shield for the first time – he’s never done this – and then he grabs her and he’s holding her, and the demon king is trying to attack, and he can’t get through.

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And meanwhile he’s holding Reia, and he realizes that her ha-, his hands are covered with her blood, and she’s like –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – I’m so sorry I didn’t protect you. She goes, No, I’m sorry, I’m so – he’s like, No, I am sorry. She’s going to die, and I can’t heal her, and –

Melody: The demon king’s like, You’re going to eat her! Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!

Sarah: Nee-nee-nee-nee-nee.

Melody: And she looks at him and she says, You can eat me –

Sarah: It’s okay.

Melody: – it’s okay!

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: I, you know –

Sarah: I’m going to be dead!

Melody: – absolutely!

Sarah: It doesn’t make a difference. And he’s like, But I don’t want you to die. You said you would stay. I don’t want you to leave.

Melody: Ah!

Sarah: And she’s like, You’ve got another human! And he’s like, I don’t want another human. They won’t be you. And meanwhile, all of this beautiful stuff is being said, and the demon king’s like, Ha-ha.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, come on, you know, that you’re going to eat her. And he’s, like, taunting them.

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And then she’s starting to die, and she says, How do I give you my soul? I can live –

Melody: Well, because in that moment, she realized that her choice – like, she doesn’t care if she dies. She doesn’t care about her life.

Sarah: Mm-mm. She just wants to be –

Melody: But she –

Sarah: – with him. Yeah.

Melody: Yeah. Being with him is more important than her “freedom.” And, like, she doesn’t necessarily want to live forever, but she doesn’t want him to be miserable forever?

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And being with him is more important than anything else.

Sarah: And, and she knows that if she gives him her soul, she will live with him, and she won’t die a normal human death. She will live with him –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – perpetually. And again, there, there’s a little bit of information missing here.

Melody: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah: Just to say – but she’s like, How do I give you my soul? And he says, Well, you just have to want to give it to me. And she’s like, Oh! Okay!

Melody: I do!

Sarah: And then she dies, and her soul just pops right out of her body, and he eats it.

Melody: It’s a fire woman! It’s a really dainty, sweet little fire woman, and he just humphs it right down. [Laughs] Homph! And she, like, giggles through her gurgling –

Sarah: Of course she did!

Melody: – right?

Sarah: She’s dying; she’s, like, course…

Melody: Oh my God!

Sarah: Course, course, course.

Melody: Of course he has to eat it to do that. And then she dies.

Sarah: She says, I love you, Orpheus –

Melody: Ohhh!

Sarah: – and then she dies, his orbs turn pink, and her vision blurs, and she lost consciousness, and Orpheus is holding her body and going, She gave me her soul, but she’s dead. She’s dead –

Melody: But she’s dead!

Sarah: – but she gave me her soul. Was I not supposed to eat it? Was I not supposed to do –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: And he’s like –

Melody: Did I do it wrong?

Sarah: – But not eating it felt wrong! Eating her soul felt right. I don’t understand! All he felt was this fluttering warmth that he thought one might feel when they’d eaten a satisfying meal, even though he’d never experienced something like that before, because he’s always, always hungry.

Melody: Oh!

Sarah: She was dead, but her – like, I don’t understand. And he goes, Reia? And he’s –

Melody: Oh no! He turns to, she turns to dust. Sorry, go ahead.

Sarah: And then she dissolves, and she disintegrates, and ash just falls away from him, and there’s nothing there.

Melody: [Gasps]

Sarah: And the demon king’s like, Well, that’s weird, but hey, she’s gone. No more human for you! And he’s like, But she just gave me her soul. Something is supposed to happen; she’s not supposed to disappear. What is happening? And he’s like –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – the demon king has her. So he starts going after the demon king. You took her, and you stole her, and he cannot be contained –

Melody: Mmmm.

Sarah: – and the demon king’s like, Oh, I might die. He’s real mad. You should leave – and the demon king’s like, This is no longer entertaining; I don’t have your human; you should leave. And Orpheus –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – is like, Nope, I’m going to kill you, ‘cause you took her. And the demon king goes, Get the fuck out of my castle, and Orpheus flies through a portal and lands on his house.

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: He lands –

Melody: Right in his front yard.

Sarah: – right in his front yard, and poof! He’s there, and the demon king portal is gone. He doesn’t have Reia; he doesn’t understand. He starts running all over the house looking for her. Is she in the garden? Is she in the bedroom? And then –

Melody: Is she in the freezer? She’s…

Sarah: Where the hell is she?

Melody: He looks under his bed.

Sarah: And then –

Melody: [Laughs] He’s like –

Sarah: Where the hell is he? Where the hell did she go? And then he hears her voice calling his name. And he’s like, It, it hurts; I don’t understand. She doesn’t know –

Melody: It’s haunting me.

Sarah: – where she is, and then she realized she’s sort of transparent? She’s like, is –

Melody: Well, then he starts running.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: Sorry, everybody. He starts, like, I’m, I’m going to find her no matter what –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – and, and so he just starts running like a maniac, because he doesn’t know what else to do.

Sarah: He heard her voice –

Melody: She’s –

Sarah: – he has to find her. She must be in the forest. He’s going to go there.

Melody: Yes. And, yeah, she starts, like, doing a float-around. She’s feeling real buoyant is, is Reia, and then she realizes that, like, she can see through her hand, and that’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – really weird. And then she can, is she looking down on him at this point? Or, like, to the side?

Sarah: She’s floating above him –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – and she looks, and she calls his name, and he whines.

Melody: Mm!

Sarah: And she tries to touch him, and her hand goes through him, and then she sees, between his horns is a tiny flame tied between them by “inky, goopy black string.”

Melody: Black!

Sarah: And she realizes –

Melody: [Giggles]

Sarah: – Oh! That’s me. Who is Orpheus looking for? He’s got the flame between – like, I’m right here; I’m right with him. She’s tethered to him.

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So wherever he’s going, she’s following, and she can’t reach him. She cannot figure out how to get in touch with him. She can see him, and then the witch owl comes. And the wi- –

Melody: What? No! What? Oh yeah!

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: Sorry!

Sarah: A large, white bird landed –

Melody: No, not yet! It’s not important, but it’s hilarious to me. I’m so sorry. She –

Sarah: Please bring it!

Melody: She says, like, No, I want my body! And then she becomes corporeal.

Sarah: Yes, that’s right!

Melody: But he’s going so fast that she just, like, runs the fuck away from her, and she’s like, Orpheus! And, like, that’s not going to work. And then she gets eaten by a giant demon. She gets ripped apart right there by a giant demon, and then she’s back above him again. [Laughs]

Sarah: So basically, what’s happened here is she’s become an NPC that is tethered to him that doesn’t have its own joystick. And –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – she, and she – this is that, thank you for bringing it up, ‘cause it’s very disturbing. She experiences being eaten alive by a demon, and –

Melody: She’s like, I never want to feel that again! [Laughs]

Sarah: – and she hears the, she hears and feels herself being eaten, and then boop! She’s right back floating above him, and she goes, I don’t ever want to feel like that again!

Melody: Uh-uh.

Sarah: Getting eaten was now higher on her list of how she never wanted to fucking die, and it had been high on the list to begin with.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: Meanwhile, Orpheus is still running amuck. What do I do, what do I do, what do I do? And she finally reaches him, and he’s, she’s like, I’m right here!

Melody: Because the, because the owl lady –

Sarah: Yes, the owl lady lands.

Melody: – lands, and it stops him.

Sarah: Yes, the owl lady lands, and she lands, and he’s like, But I can’t touch you! I don’t – you’re not, you’re, you’re not here. I can’t be with you here. It’s too dangerous. We have to go back. Where is your body? You’re a ghost. This isn’t what I wanted. And she’s like –

Melody: And she says –

Sarah: – You need to take me home.

Melody: Yeah. I will become, I will become physical for you once we get home; just trust me.

Sarah: Because it’s not safe, ‘cause I just got eaten by demons. My dude, trust me, I have learned –

Melody: I, boy, I’m not doing that again.

Sarah: – I have learned a thing, and it is an important thing.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: And then she realizes, Oh. Okay, one of the sections of the books that the witch howl, witch owl gave her about creatures, both real and mythical, and she realizes that she has become a phantom.

Melody: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: And she realizes that she’s tethered to him as a phantom, and she goes, I think, I think you made me a phantom. And he goes, What’s a phantom? He didn’t know this was what was going to happen. She explained what she thought it took. Like, she explained what she thought happened until they crossed over the salt circle, and he starts searching – [laughs]. She sees what happened when he searched the house. The house is a mess; it’s a wreck.

Melody: It’s a mess.

Sarah: He just tossed everything everywhere. And then she realizes, Okay, I have to become corporeal again. She’s like, I want my body. I want to be real, and she feels the pressure –

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – start at her feet and travel all the way up to her head, and she’s able to touch him. And he is just so happy to touch her. He wraps his arm around her. She wraps her reg around his lace – wraps her legs around his waist, and she goes, Hi, my big Duskwalker! So we got more, more kinky time.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: He’s like, You died!

Melody: I hated this?

Sarah: I did. I hated this for two reasons. One –

Melody: I hated this so much.

Sarah: Okay, tell me why you hated this, ‘cause I wonder if it overlaps with my, like, Ooh, I’m not crazy about this. ‘Cause J. R. Ward tried to do the same thing, and it did not work. You, you cannot fucking marry a ghost. We’ve been over this! We did this in romance already!

Melody: Oh, no! [Sighs] It’s the next thing that I hate. Sorry. I don’t –

Sarah: Tell me.

Melody: – I don’t mind the phantom thing, and, you know what, as far as I’m concerned, J. R. Ward has not done anything right, so there’s that. Anyway, sooo –

Sarah: Fair assessment.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: Fair assessment.

Melody: She – so he has been so distraught, overwrought. Like, he’s devastated, to the point that it looks like the bottoms of his deep, deep, deep, sorrowful blue orbs are cracked, and it’s leaking out as if he’s crying, and then it’s, like, disappearing right by his eyes. He is…he’s never been like this before.

Sarah: No.

Melody: It’s, it’s a level – like, he’s sort of, like, catatonic, but still moving –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – if that makes sense –

Sarah: He is –

Melody: – you know?

Sarah: – traumatized, and the way that shows is through his blue orbs leaking. Then she’s like –

Melody: And cracked!

Sarah: – I want you. I want you to fuck me. You can have me, and he’ll go to purple and back to blue, and then she’ll start taunting him, and it’ll go –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – red for a little bit and back to blue.

Melody: Back to blue.

Sarah: She cannot break him out of this grief trauma setting.

Melody: And so her answer to that is making him chase her in order to fuck her, and he’s like, I really don’t want to do that.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And she goes, No, come on! And he’s like, That’s really not what I need right now. And she’s like, Ooh, here we go! And there’s this whole chase scene when what he needed was for her to reassure him physically. Like, don’t, don’t taunt him more! With whether or not he’s going to be able to keep you right after he thought he lost you forever, to the point that he almost had like a, like an episode? Like, this, I don’t understand –

Sarah: It was cruel. It was cruel.

Melody: It was so mean!

Sarah: It was very cruel.

Melody: And, and that’s, and it’s so inconsistent for her character, ‘cause up until this point she’s been so considerate and so, she thinks out his feelings. She, she tries to parse the colors of his eyes and what they mean. Like, she really tries to understand him, and in this moment, like, her being like, Ugh, it’s really not sexy when you’re sad? So, like, let’s do another traumatizing thing and see if we can, you know, boop you right out of it. And it was wild to me.

Sarah: The answer to trauma is not more trauma.

Melody: Right!

Sarah: [Laughs] This is a bad math. This is not good.

Melody: It was so mean! And I guess it works, kind of –

Sarah: Because what happens is –

Melody: – but it –

Sarah: – the, the battle, I think, of the rage and the arousal breaks him out of the blue grief, but it’s still manipulative.

Melody: It’s still manipulative, and it’s still, it’s still using his anxious attachment against him.

Sarah: Yeah. Like –

Melody: And –

Sarah: – I’m going to make you chase me because you want me because you’re grieving me and because I’m prey, but you don’t want me –

Melody: Because I’m –

Sarah: – to be prey. I’m going to play with the part of you that thinks I’m prey that doesn’t want me to be prey. Like, that seems –

Melody: That’s fucked!

Sarah: – un-, unkind?

Melody: Dude! That’s super fucked up! And, like, it, it sort of, like, “works out,” because she’s always wanted him to, like, be rougher, and she says, like, especially now that she’s a phantom, he can do his worst, he can fuck her to death –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – and she’ll just come right back, no problem? And she’s kind of cool with that, you know? She’s like, I kind of want to see, like, what you can dish out. So she’s trying to get that out of him, but, like, that can happen in two weeks –

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: – after he feels safe again.

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And you feel safe again, and, and he’s proven that something can happen and you will come back, and that you want to come back. Like, that, that is what he needs right now, not this weird fucking chase me and I’m, I’m teasing you sort of thing. Oh God, it made me livid. I was so mad.

Sarah: It was very dissatisfying, I agree. There’s also a part where, in the final chapter, a lot is explained, and –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – so she realizes that he has turned her into a phantom –

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – and – y’all –

Melody: Well, ‘cause the owl lady explains this to her.

Sarah: Yes, the owl lady is like –

Melody: They have a mother-in-law/daughter-in-law –

Sarah: Because it –

Melody: – sit-down.

Sarah: Because the owl, the owl witch is his mother.

Melody: Ahhh!

Sarah: Which, surprise! Seriously, if these were all humans, this would be like a nighttime soap opera.

Melody: Oh, totally!

Sarah: Totally.

Melody: Totally!

Sarah: Yes. And so the, the, the owl witch explains what’s happened, and he realizes that when he ate her soul, this hunger that he could never satisfy was gone. I smell your blood, and I don’t feel hunger. Well, it turns out that even as a phantom, she gets her period.

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: And I just want to say how deeply infuriating –

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I found that. You are a phantom, you are tethered, you are, you are tied between his horns, you are –

Melody: Yep.

Sarah: – tethered to him, you are non-corporeal until it’s –

Melody: Yep.

Sarah: – it’s shtupping time, but you still get your period? As, like, I even highlighted that and wrote, Even as a phantom? Fuck off!

Melody: Fuck that.

Sarah: Yeah!

Melody: Honestly. Well, and the reason that the owl witch came is because she was like, Hey, girl, watch those ovaries, you know what I mean?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: Like, they work now, because he’s part human, part, part spirit, and now she’s part human, part spirit, and apparently spirit/human hybrids can, can procreate. So, like –

Sarah: And it turns out that that’s what the demon king is: he’s half demon and half elf, which is why –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – he’s so powerful. So you can do –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – you can make children across different creature boundaries? But it’s usually because two creatures who were each part of something else procreated. It’s, it’s not like two – it’s very rare for two demons to have a baby, it’s very rare for leshens to have a baby, but half-leshen –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – half-human and half-human/half-phantom, well, they can make very interesting babies.

Melody: Yeah. Wonder what they’ll look like, she thinks to herself. And so she’s like, Well, I’m not ready for that at all.

Sarah: No.

Melody: And he sort of takes that, when, when she tells him, because he has to do a spell to block off that – I’ve got to barricade that cervix, okay? No, no entry, is what we need to say.

Sarah: So she’s getting her period as a phantom, and she needs magic birth control. I can’t describe how frustrating – if this were me, I would be so –

Melody: Magic birth control that she doesn’t control.

Sarah: Yeah! Like, this is – this is a little frustrating.

Melody: Like, he can revoke it at any time.

Sarah: Right? Like –

Melody: And he…

Sarah: – he can put her –

Melody: – tell her about it.

Sarah: Yeah, he can just put her birth control pills in the microwave for five seconds. You know?

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: Like, he can –

Melody: Oh, woof.

Sarah: Yeah. Like, dude. This is a weird power dynamic that I’m not –

Melody: I didn’t love it.

Sarah: – super fond of.

Melody: Well, it is a weird power dynamic, but on the other hand, I think it still works, simply because he’s never going to stop being desperate, you know? [Laughs] And so –

Sarah: Fair! Fair assessment!

Melody: – especially if she keeps on doing shit like making him chase her when he’s feeling insecure and horrified? But – ‘cause he says, like, Wait, you don’t want to have a baby with me? And she’s like, Well, not right now.

Sarah: I’m not ready! I just got –

Melody: I want to –

Sarah: – to be a phantom, and by the way, I’m on my period. Let me just express how annoyed I am about that.

Melody: Meh! And –

Sarah: I’m on my period –

Melody: And he’s like –

Sarah: – and I just got here. And I’m no, newly a demon. I need to figure this out –

Melody: Right.

Sarah: – before I figure out procreating. Come on.

Melody: Yeah! And, and she tries to reason with him by being like, Well, I want more time only with you. And otherwise I’ll be distracted with the baby. And he says to her, he says, You don’t think I’m going to be the sexiest father that’s ever lived and be like the most doting, attentive father that’s ever lived? What he actually says is, Can’t I be part of the baby’s attention? [Laughs] But that’s what he means, because there’s nothing this man will not, this creature will not do for his offspring, I’m sure of it. And so then she’s like, instead of having this whole talk and really explaining it to him, because he looks at it, he, he tells her, he’s like, I kind of see a baby as another tether to me. Like, if we have a baby then you super duper can’t leave me ever –

Sarah: Bro.

Melody: – you know? And that’s kind of neat.

Sarah: Stop baby-trapping your phantom!

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: We, we just did all of this emotional growth, and now you’re baby-trapping a phantom who’s tied to your horns. That’s really –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – like, come on, now.

Melody: Come on. Like, we don’t have to…it’s overkill at this point. And so she looks at him and she says, Well, I’m not having sex with you until you do the spell.

Sarah: Yep!

Melody: And I was like –

Sarah: I won’t have sex with you –

Melody: – I –

Sarah: – until – the thing is, he says he doesn’t know how to do the spell. He says, I don’t know how to do that –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – and then she’s like, Well, I’m not fucking you until you figure it out. Like, girl, this is cruel and manipulative and not nice, and I don’t like it.

Melody: Especially since she doesn’t tell him, she finds out from the owl witch that the way that his magic works is that he has to want something bad enough, and then he, like, brings it into being –

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: – and that’s how his magic manifests.

Sarah: Yes. He –

Melody: And so literally –

Sarah: – he manifests. Like, he literal-, that’s his magic.

Melody: He literally, yeah, that’s exactly right.

Sarah: Right.

Melody: That’s exactly right. But she doesn’t tell him this. She just says, You better figure it out, or you’re never getting this again! And it’s fucking mean!

Sarah: And then she points out, You’re like a bloody fountain, and your pre-cum can get me pregnant. Once you learn this spell we’ll fuck; until then, we can touch but not in that way. And he’s just like – [sighs] – As long as it will make you happy, I will do what you asked. And I’m not crazy about –

Melody: I know.

Sarah: – this duplication of the poor relationship he had before!

Melody: I don’t love it.

Sarah: That’s, that’s a duplication of the same dynamic; I don’t love it!

Melody: No. Especially since she was so judgmental about Katerina?

Sarah: Yeah! Like, you were –

Melody: I didn’t –

Sarah: – jealous this woman got him off, and now you’re, like, wanting to be just like, acting just like her? What the hell?

Melody: Well, and she was like, Oh yeah, she only, like, she just wanted jewelry from him, or whatever, and she would use, you know, this emotional blackmail against him and, and cold-shoulder him, and she’s so judgmental about Katerina. You’re doing the same thing, dude! Just about a baby, and not having one, you know? Oh! I hated it. I was really mad about it.

And then it’s kind of great, though, because he goes off to hunt, and he’s thinking –

Sarah: He’s going to pick flowers for her.

Melody: Yeah. Oh! Yeah, he’s like, Maybe I don’t need to get any deer, because I just want to pick flowers for her instead, and I think my jingle bells are scaring the deer away, but I don’t want to break my jingle bells, so I…

Sarah: So he’s sitting there. Yeah –

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: – just let’s sit here for a second, and then, pop! She’s right there.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: She, she’s right there, and she’s like, It’s been a, a day! Like, what, what, what are you doing here? And she’s like, I have no idea. One minute I was eating breakfast, and now I’m here in the woods with you. And what has happened is that they can only be apart for a day. She is –

Melody: Uh-huh.

Sarah: – tethered to him. She cannot –

Melody: Everything resets.

Sarah: – go far away from him for more than a day.

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And, like, again.

Melody: [Laughs] Tough.

Sarah: Nn.

Melody: Tough times.

Sarah: Not so –

Melody: Tough times.

Sarah: – not so joyful about this part –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – to be honest. It’s mmm.

Melody: But she’s thinking, like, it’s safe for me. I can travel wherever I want, because I can go incorporeal anytime, and nobody will hurt me. And even if they do hurt me, I’ll come back.

Sarah: I’ll come right back, because I’m a phantom –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – and I’m tied to your horns.

Melody: Yeah! And so she’s like, So we can, like, travel! Do you want to take me around the world?

Sarah: ‘Cause she’s said –

Melody: And he’s like –

Sarah: – she wanted to travel, and he’s always been like, Nope, that’s not happening –

Melody: It’s not safe.

Sarah: – and she’s like, No, I want to travel; I want to see the world. And then at the, this is the end. Like, we are very late in this book, at ninety-nine percent, according to my digital copy here –

Melody: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah: – and she’s like, Hey, you said that you wanted to kill the people who hurt me? From my village?

Melody: Oh yeah.

Sarah: And he’s like, Oh yeah. And so he just starts walking, and she’s like, Where are you going? He’s, To your village! I’m going to kill some people! She’s like, Wait, really? We’re going? He’s like, Yeah! I kill them! I’m, you’re going to take me back to my village so you can kill my bullies? And she’s, he’s like, Well, do you not want this? And she’s like, Nonono, I absolutely do! But I think it, I don’t think it should be all three of them. Those that actually helped Chad, the, the ringleader, only did it –

Melody: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – because they wanted to impress him. They weren’t the ones who ever actually physically hurt me by throwing things.

Melody: And they didn’t do it on their own.

Sarah: And they didn’t do it on their own. Darren, the man who was also offered to you, was one of the people who would help him torment me. And he’s like, I’ll kill all of them; I really don’t care.

Melody: I don’t give a shit.

Sarah: Just, whatever will make you happy. And –

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – he really, he’s like, I really, really want to eat these people; they hurt her. And she’s like, Well, think about it. What would happen if you ate Chad? (Also, I kind of love that his name is Chad?)

Melody: I love a Chad, yeah. I love it.

Sarah: So Chad. He’s like, I don’t think it will make me hungry or satisfy me, but I would become a little bit more human and obtain a little bit more humanity. And she’s like, Well, hmmm.

Melody: And he, and he thinks to himself, Oh no! Would she want me to change? Does she not like me as I am? Would she want me to do that? And then she says the perfect thing.

Sarah: She’s like, I don’t actually like that. Hold up. What if we feed him to the other Mavka? He’s really stupid; he needs more humanity. And –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: – so if we kill Chad and feed him to the other Mavka, that will level him up. So basically, they’re going to embark on a worldwide journey –

Melody: Win-win-win!

Sarah: – to take out all her enemies, feed them to the Mavka!

Melody: [Laughs] Oh, it’s Mavka time!

Sarah: It’s Mavka time.

Melody: Somebody’s going to give him a name!

Sarah: Yep! So that –

Melody: Oh, it’s great.

Sarah: And so they go out and hunt terrible people together while she’s tethered to his horns, and he’s –

Melody: Love it.

Sarah: – working on magic birth control, and they can only be apart for twenty-four hours.

Melody: And she says, We can, we can go, we can put off traveling like really, really far until we can use the protection spell that, that does the village, we can use the protection spell on our house so that nobody fucks with it. ‘Cause I really like our house! I want to, I want to keep our house! And he’s like, OMG. She, she’s putting off something that she wants because she values something that I made, and that’s really huge to him too.

Sarah: And she’s like, Hey, ten years is not that long, because we have eternity together.

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: And then they, they go off to commit murders and walk off into the sunset.

Melody: Ugh! I mean, that was wonderful. That portion of it was excellent.

Sarah: I, I, this is so wrong of me, ‘cause I just got done saying how much I don’t like violence. I would have liked that to be earlier in the book so I could have watched this guy be afraid. That would have been…

Melody: Yeah.

Sarah: – great, but it’s, I can just imagine it. It’s my fanfic; I understand; that’s fine. I would have liked that –

Melody: Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah: – to have been, I would have liked that to have been on the page so that I could enjoy the, the evisceration of Chad.

Melody: Well, and so that we could see him overcome the appetite because of smelling fear.

Sarah: Yes! Yes! Like, he’ll smell fear –

Melody: …a Mavka –

Sarah: – and be like, I am choosing to kill you because my lady phantom has asked me to do so. I don’t –

Melody: That’s right.

Sarah: – actually want to eat you. In fact, I’m going to kill you and bring you to somebody else to eat.

Melody: Yeaahh!

Sarah: I would have –

Melody: Yeah!

Sarah: I would have liked to have seen that.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: I know that’s not my usual modus, but I would have liked to have seen that.

Melody: I like it. I like it!

Sarah: So what did you think of this?

Melody: I liked book.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Melody: Overall – [laughs] – overall, I liked book. I immediately went to see what the plot of book two is and, you know, question whether or not I can fit it into my reading.

I thought that there were problematic elements, but I enjoyed the fact that the problematic elements made me think critically in a way that a lot of other books don’t. You know, sometimes it’s just, like, problematic and that’s it, black and white, boom, it’s done. This one, it really made me parse what I thought about each thing? And I appreciated that.

Plus, just, like, I don’t know. I don’t know what is going on with me, but I cannot get enough, like, golden retriever heroes lately? I –

Sarah: Listen, yes.

Melody: – looove them? I just want to watch somebody get fucking pampered and worshipped, okay?

Sarah: Oh yes.

Melody: [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, we have so many very large damaging, harmful examples of the worst kind of masculinity right now, and they’re hurting millions of people.

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: So reading about men who are emotionally fluent, who –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – caretake, who can imbue themselves with caring energy towards another pu-, another person and not worry about that emasculating them in some way.

Melody: And knowing that it makes them even more strong.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: It only aids their masculinity to be a more well-rounded human.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: Or being.

Sarah: Yes.

Melody: Yeah, no, absolutely. So – ah! – this, this, like –

Sarah: I just finished reading Atonement Sky by Nalini Singh, which is the next in the Psy-Changeling books?

Melody: Ooh!

Sarah: One of the things that struck me is that the heroine is Psy, so she has no feelings. She has no emotions, and she’s, like, this far from complete burnout?

Melody: Oooh!

Sarah: The hero is the alpha of a pack of raptors – I think they’re falcons – and he does the emotional caretaking for his clan, for his family, for his nieces and nephews, for her, for her family. He does –

Melody: Oh my gosh.

Sarah: – he does all of the emotional work, and he does the work of pulling his own head out of his ass. She –

Melody: Ah!

Sarah: All she has to do is survive what’s about to happen to her, and he is taking care of all of the emotional heavy lifting, and I was reading, and I was like, I’m digging this new kind of alpha!

Melody: Oh boy!

Sarah: ‘Cause if you go back to 2005, it’s a very different kind of alpha male when that –

Melody: Oh God!

Sarah: – when that story started. Think of how different –

Melody: Yes.

Sarah: – alpha males are in twenty years. You know?

Melody: Yeah! Yeah! And boy, we needed it. I –

Sarah: Yes, thank you; I love it.

Melody: I –

Sarah: I love –

Melody: – finally love alphas. I’ve never loved an alpha male until roughly like the last two years, I think.

Sarah: But it has to be –

Melody: When –

Sarah: – an emotionally competent –

Melody: That’s what I mean.

Sarah: – person, yeah.

Melody: Yeah!…

Sarah: If an alpha is just like, I get my way! Like, the people who think that they are alpha are just immature. People who are actually imbued with leadership also know how to take, caretake. Yeah.

Melody: Absolutely!

Sarah: Yeah.

Melody: And they, they see the value in it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Melody: – yeah.

Yeah. That, so, boy, this really hit a lot of my – I hadn’t read a monster-fucker in a while, so that was exciting.

Sarah: I’m here for you.

Melody: Like, really.

Sarah: I’m so pleased that I suggested this book, by the way. [Laughs] Like, I’m –

Melody: Same!

Sarah: – so pleased by it!

Melody: Same. You’re the best! Oh my God. All right, is there a specific way you end your episodes?

Sarah: I, I have an outro that I add afterward.

Melody: Okay! All right, shall we just say bye to them?

Sarah: Yeah. Bye!

Melody: Bye! [Laughs]

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode, and a journey over three episodes! Have you read A Soul to Keep? Do you have thoughts? I would really love to hear them. There are so many ways to talk to us. You can comment on the post at Smart Bitches, Trashy Books under Podcast, episode 67. You can find me on social media, or you can email me at Sarah@smartbitchestrashybooks.com. I would deeply love to know what you thought of this book if you’ve read it, or what you thought of this book now that you’ve listened to all the episodes.

Thank you again to Melody. It is always fun when she emails me, and I’m very pleased to have provided this book for our discussion.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. And this is a monster joke! Seemed appropriate.

Why did the sea monster eat five ships carrying spuds?

Give up? Why did the sea monster eat five ships carrying spuds?

Well, no one can eat just one potato ship.

[Laughs] More people are groaning! It’s so delightful. Please tell all your friends and let me know what they thought.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week! And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]