669. RT Rewind – February 2015 Ads & Features Part II

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Sarah Wendell: Hello there and welcome to episode number 669 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, HelenKay is back, and we are going to do part two of the ads and features from February 2015. Sometimes there are five Fridays in a month, and sometimes it works out perfectly! In this episode, we’re going to talk about butts a lot, for very important reasons, and we’re going to answer some questions, like why many romantic suspense covers look the same, and what are the ways to approach reviews when you’re an author – something that is a topic I have talked about – and what happens when romantic suspense authors take a gun safety and usage class? Well, they have a lot to say about cover models holding guns; that’s one result. I hope you have enjoyed this month’s Romantic Times Rewind with HelenKay. It has been a true delight for me, and I’m really excited to share this episode with you!

I have a compliment this week, which is one of my favorites.

To Heather V.: In 2024 there were an alleged 24.8 cleaning missions completed by robot vacuum cleaners. Researchers have determined that they’ve all been spelling out words that describe you. Awesome! Fab! Terrific! One also spelled conflagration, but we just assume that’s about your dancing.

If you would like a compliment of your own – and they get sillier the longer I do them – have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Our Patreon community keeps me going, makes sure every episode has a transcript compiled by garlicknitter – hi, garlicknitter! – [hi, Sarah! – gk] – and your support means a lot. If you would like to join, patreon.com/SmartBitches, and if Patreon isn’t in your cards right now, may I humbly request that you consider leaving a review for the show where you listen. Or, you know, tell people. Tell random people; grab them on the street and tell them a bad joke; it will make everyone’s day. But most of all, thank you for listening. I am so happy you’re here.

Support for this episode comes from Louise Bay’s newest contemporary romance, Love Fast. The first in the Colorado Club Billionaires series, Love Fast is a standalone, small-town contemporary featuring one runaway bride, one grumpy billionaire, and one small town where everyone remembers everything, including all the things other people are trying to forget. Rosey never thought that she would be a runaway bride. She just couldn’t marry the wrong man, so she ran, and she somehow ended up in Star Falls, Colorado. Stranded, no luggage, no plan, and still wearing her wedding gown. When Rosey takes the only available rental in town, she finds herself in a cozy cabin next door to Byron Miller, the brooding, grumpy man who really wants nothing to do with her or with the town. Byron quit Star Falls years ago, leaving many mistakes behind him in the past – or so he thought – and now he’s back, and he’s determined to build a luxury resort that will, he hopes, rewrite some of that messy past. He does not want distractions, especially not from a winsome runaway bride with a beautiful smile and a pile of secrets that she’s keeping close. But then their short interactions become late-night talks on the porch while the snow falls and the sparks fly. She is just passing through, he’s not trying to put down roots, but Star Falls, Colorado, has a plan for them both. If you like contemporary romances with fresh starts and a hero who falls first, look for Love Fast by Louise Bay, available now at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Apple Books. You can learn more at louisebay.com or check the show notes for more info.

Support for this episode comes from Skims, who want you to know about the ultimate push-up bra. Did you know push-up bras were back? I hadn’t seen one that I liked in forever, and I didn’t think they were even a thing anymore, but I was wrong! The Skims ultimate bra has been everywhere on my social media feeds, especially Instagram. Now, I remember push-up bras being really uncomfortable, being bulky and itchy with, you know, lace in a place where there didn’t need to be lace? And to be honest, I didn’t really think about them until I found out about the ultimate push-up bra. It’s delightful. I don’t usually call bras delightful, but it is. It is very lightweight, it does not dig into my ribs, and it really does defy gravity in a lot of ways; let’s put it that way. I was trying it on and, you know, doing the turn around in the mirror thing, see how it looks in the back, and my younger child in fact walked in and said, Oh mom, you look great! So that was an endorsement I needed at that time. Wearing this bra is incredibly comfortable and very surprising. I didn’t even need to make any adjustments. And if you’re like me and there are ample assets in that department, this is important info: it does not make anything bigger. There’s no added bulk. The ultimate push-up bra lifts and supports, but the fabric is so soft, and it comes in a range of colors to match different skin tones. Everything I’ve tried from Skims has been really, really great. You can shop the Skims ultimate bra collection and more at skims.com. After you place an order, be sure to let them know I sent you. Select Podcast in the survey, and be sure to select my show in the drop-down menu that follows. Or you can visit skims.com/SARAH.

Are you ready to journey back in time to February 2015 one last time? Let’s do this: on with the podcast.

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Sarah: PDF page 16 is one of the best articles that I’ve ever read in RT, and this is –

HelenKay Dimon: Yes.

Sarah: – by the late, departed Miranda Neville, may she rest, “Saving the Big Duke for Last.” You write a historical series, and you save the biggest duke for the last book in the series. She talks to Mary Balogh, and she talks to, I think she talks to Eloisa James, Jo Beverly.

HelenKay: I just, I can’t get around how spectacular those names are.

Sarah: I mean, just, like, hey, just call up your friends; it’s fine. And then they’ve got Caroline Linden, pictures of books by Lorraine Heath. Like, “Sealed with a Duke: The Series with the Big Duke at the End.” So there’s Devilish by Jo Beverly, A Duke of Her Own by Eloisa James, Slightly Dangerous by Mary Balogh, Dangerous in Diamonds by Madeline Hunter. She passed away on April 16th, 2025; she passed away a couple of weeks ago.

HelenKay: Oh wow!

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: Okay.

Sarah: May she rest.

HelenKay: May she rest! That’s –

Sarah: Who else is in here? Suzanne Enoch, Sin of a Duke; The Way to a Duke’s Heart by Caroline Linden. This is a kickass reading list! Like, all of these books would be –

HelenKay: All of them.

Sarah: – good to read right now. The opening of the article is with Miranda Neville:

>> A couple of years ago I was having lunch with Sara MacLean. We chatted about our new historical series. “And then I saved the big duke for the last book,” I said. “As you do,” Sarah replied.

Yep! Story checks out! Got to save the big duke for last. One of the things I like about this article is that the authors talk about being scared to write the book.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: I think that is so fascinating, ‘cause Mary Balogh says:

>> “By the time I came to Wulfric’s story I was terrified. I knew that reader expectations were high, and so were my own, but I had a completely blank mind.”

That is such a hard position to be in.

HelenKay: It really is.

Sarah: Like, everyone –

HelenKay: It really –

Sarah: – loves this character. You have to do them justice. Like, oy. That’s hard.

HelenKay: And just writing a series at all is difficult, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: Because you’re trying to figure out, how do you give this couple the star power and what they deserve? But in the last one, somebody else had star power, so how do you, how do you mention them? Do you mention them? Do they take over your story?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: And if they’re – some of these people have really long going ones. I’m like, What do you have, 173 characters? You’ve got to figure out how to, like, who’s doing what, ‘cause the one you, the one you don’t mention is the one everybody’s going to be like, But where is Suzy? You know, so –

Sarah: Yeah, where is their book, right? And it’s like, it makes me think of the, the Black Dagger Brotherhood. I remember before I checked out of that series, there was one where just, like, all the past wives came out in different colored dresses –

HelenKay: Yes!

Sarah: – at a ball, and I was like, Well, that’s one way to do it. Just, you know, have a fancy dress party.

And then on page 18 it’s Victoria Dahl!

HelenKay: Looking adorable.

Sarah: Looking adorable, and I, I actually clipped this for promotion for the last episode. The, this is the 2020s version of the historical-to-thriller pipeline, only in this case –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – it is contemporary to thrillers, which is a thing that happened long ago and is happening again!

HelenKay: And it feels like – it’s probably not true, but it feels like she was like the first of the new wave.

Sarah: I think she might have been, because I remember talking with her at Book Lovers Con, whatever took the place of RT, ‘cause it was in Reno, and I had the most ridiculously opulent bathroom, but I was doing interviews, so I asked for a larger room or a suite because I was doing interviews in my room, and I learned very quickly that having authors come to your room to sit on your bed to record a podcast is super awkward and you want to have a table and chairs, but you needed a quiet place, so I was like, Fuck it, I have to get a room with a table and chairs, which usually means, like, you know, suite or some bullshit.

One of the things that she talks about in this interview – we, we’ve already talked about – is that the characters are older.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: She’s talking about Flirting with Disaster. Isabelle is thirty-six and Tom is forty-two, and Regina Small asks her:

>> What are the advantages of writing a character at this stage of their lives?

Her answer’s so great. She said:

>> I’d previously written a novella, Fanning the Flames, with a forty-something heroine, and I loved it so much I wanted to write a more mature heroine again. I think a lot of women don’t truly get to know themselves until their thirties and forties, and this is what I loved about writing Isabelle. She knows who she is, she’s comfortable in her own skin, and content just being alone with herself. The only challenge for me is the fear that younger readers might not identify with her, but in all honesty, it’s important for me that women my age see themselves in sexy heroines.

HelenKay: So if you didn’t love Vicky Dahl or Victoria Helen Stone before this, you should now.

Sarah: Yep! She also says:

>> I suspect they [editors] feel that it’s better suited to women’s fiction, but I think forty-something women and men are smoking hot.

On PDF page 33 – page 31 of the magazine – I just need you to see the expression on the face of this woman on this cover. This is The Trouble with Patience, and it is by Maggie Brendan. I’m pretty sure that this is an inspirational – yeah, it’s by Revell. This woman has her back to you, her dress is fabulous, she’s got curls gathered up behind her head, and she’s looking over her shoulder at you like you are the least impressive person she has ever met.

HelenKay: [Laughs] She really is.

Sarah: She is like, Really, that’s the line you’re trying on me?

HelenKay: That’s, that’s, that’s, yeah, that is something.

Sarah: Isn’t that a great face? Like, I make that face!

HelenKay: It is a great face.

Sarah: What – inspirational romances have great covers. Sometimes they have incredible hats; we love a good hat.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: This is a fantastic facial expression. I love it.

HelenKay: Oh! She’s in an arranged marriage. No? Yes…

Sarah: Yep, with a rugged sheriff.

HelenKay: Like it! I’m in.

Sarah: She inherited, she inherits a dilapidated borning, boarding house in 1866 Montana. No wonder she’s making that face! That sucks!

HelenKay: Yeah. I mean, come on. Her, she’s got a lot going on. That’s just –

Sarah: Screw that! That’s the, that’s the contractor said, Yeah, we, we aren’t going to be there today look. She’s like, Really now?

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: And you wanted to look at RT favorite – Amanda and I love the ads for this author in this magazine; there is always one – on PDF page 50 –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – there’s a Christine Feehan ad.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: Amanda loves Christine Feehan, because no matter what the era, you can spot a Christine Feehan book. You just, you can spot them. You know what they look like.

HelenKay: And interestingly enough, my dentist –

Sarah: [Laughs]

HelenKay: – loves Christine Feehan.

Sarah: Your dentist loves Christine Feehan?

HelenKay: One time I am in there; it’s like, I don’t know, a year ago? Two years ago?

Sarah: Right.

HelenKay: And he – he loves that I’m an author, right? So, you know –

Sarah: Of course! That’s cool!

HelenKay: – he always talk about –

Sarah: It’s a cool thing to talk about, and they get to talk while they have their hands all up in your face.

HelenKay: Exactly! So of course he asks questions, and it was like –

Sarah: Arruer I’g arruer-g!

HelenKay: He’s like, Have you heard of Christine Feehan? I’m like, Of course I have.

Sarah: Of course.

HelenKay: What are you about to talk about? Her home life? What are you – go ahead. [Laughs] You know, and it’s like everything he’s ever known about Christine Feehan and is it true? And what about her husband? And what about – [laughs] –

Sarah: Oh my gosh!

HelenKay: I’m like, I am fascinated about how much you know about Christine Feehan…

Sarah: That’s kind of a frightening level of knowledge about an author.

HelenKay: And this is like a dual page ad, too. I don’t think I’ve ever –

Sarah: Yeah, this is the, this is the centerfold. It used to be –

HelenKay: Ah, yes.

Sarah: – that the magazine was newsprint, and then there would be like a color section in the middle. Sometimes it was a color foldout, so you know that was expensive. But the centerfold was always, like, the big thing, and even now the magazine is entirely in color, the centerfold is still big. I would just like to point out this is Viper Gang, a – Viper Gang – Viper Game, a Ghost Walker novel never before published. This heroine has violet eyes. [Laughs]

HelenKay: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah: Her eyes are purple, and if you look –

HelenKay: Oh, they are purple! Wow!

Sarah: Right? And if you look at the book cover, on the ad you can sort of see a very badly Photoshopped, like, lock of her hair on the right there? On the book cover her hair is in a braid, but the braid is snakes. She’s got snake hair.

HelenKay: Honestly, I thought that was a snake. That’s really her hair?

Sarah: That’s her hair. That’s her braid, it’s her hair, and she’s got purple eyes and little snake-patterned, like, you know where you put those little puffy patches that go under your eyes? Like, those little gel eye patches that you put on? That’s where she’s got some purple scales? So she’s, like, partially shifting, and her hair is snakes.

HelenKay: Okay, that explains the weirdness under her eyes in the, in the photo. Oh –

Sarah: Yeah. Isn’t that wild?

HelenKay: Okay!

Sarah: Yep.

HelenKay: All right! I –

Sarah: Purple eyes. An actual picture of a purple-eyed heroine!

HelenKay: That’s, you don’t see that every day.

Sarah: No, you sure don’t!

HelenKay: But, I mean, how effective is the second half of this ad, where they have, what is that, ten books from the, the series?

Sarah: More from the Ghost Walkers, yeah. That is a lot of books –

HelenKay: Because, you know –

Sarah: – but if you notice, all of these books except for one – nope! Two – have men –

HelenKay: They’re all men, yeah.

Sarah: – on the cover, and all of the expressions are like various stages of indigestion?

HelenKay: Yes.

Sarah: Like, their lips are pursed –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – together, and they’ve got a little frown between their eyebrows. Like, is this gas? Is this a gallstone? Like, what’s going on with my butt? Yeah, they all look a little bit dyspeptic?

HelenKay: Little bit.

Sarah: Little bit?

HelenKay: Like, with Ruthless Game, he, he needs to back up from the camera just a little bit.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s –

HelenKay: That’s, that’s a little bit –

Sarah: – very, very close.

HelenKay: – too much of –

Sarah: Like, any second now his nose is going to press against the lens and, like, flatten it out. Yeah.

You wanted to look at page 59, and we have talked about this, because the first book of this series was featured in an article and a center page, and a centerfold in an earlier RT.

HelenKay: Yes. This is the Kat Martin?

Sarah: Yes, Kat Martin in Anchorage, Alaska. The first one was Against the Wild, which is a, is an interesting cover, ‘cause it’s this guy in a, sort of an…a Canadian tuxedo, but he has no shirt on underneath, and the jean shirt is open, so there’s man chest? So it’s like a man chest Canadian tuxedo. But behind him is a plane, and I don’t know if you can see it in this small cover, but the nose of the plane behind him is extremely suggestive.

HelenKay: Yeah, it really is! All, at first I just saw the snow or whatever’s in the background, but –

Sarah: Yeah.

HelenKay: – there’s a lot going on there.

Sarah: The red nose of the plane coming off the side there is quite suggestive.

HelenKay: When I was looking through this, you know, this magazine in prep for this, I got to this and I was like, Oh, look, that’s my – oh, wait, that’s not my book!

[Laughter]

HelenKay: You know, I thought Kat Martin’s Against the Sky was one of my covers, and then I was like, I, I never wrote anything in Alaska! It took me a second for my brain to reboot and realize that was not me, but it does go to, during this time, it’s like the only romantic suspense cover they could make was –

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: – dudes holding guns with big muscles.

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: Like, that was it; that was your only option.

Sarah: I was just going to say you need shiny, flexed biceps; a gun; and either no shirt or a vest.

HelenKay: Yep.

Sarah: Now, I would just like to point out one very good thing: this cover is demonstrating, as far as I know, effective and safe gun behavior, because this –

HelenKay: Yes.

Sarah: – person’s finger is alongside the trigger –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – the little trigger loop. It is alongside; the finger is not on the trigger. This person is demonstrating good gun safety protocol, and I’m very impressed, because usually it’s like, you know, he’s, like, licking the trigger; his finger’s on the trigger and, like, yeah, like, there’s very bad gun handling on romance covers. This is a very good example.

HelenKay: Very bad, and I have to say, during, while I was writing this series, I took a gun class.

Sarah: Get out of town!

HelenKay: There, there’s – yeah, so I live in San Diego, so there are plenty of former military folks around here, and there’s a group of, a group of, it’s, I think, all men, and they have a gun course. Like, you go up to northern San Diego and, you know, first of all they talk about gun safety, and they show you horrifying videos –

Sarah: Ohhh!

HelenKay: – where people shoot themselves.

Sarah: No, thank you!

HelenKay: And then you go out to the range, and you learn how to sight a gun, and you learn how to shoot a gun, and there are different, you know, you, Glocks? You can do – there was a whole group of people; I went out with a fellow romantic suspense author, Melissa Cutler. I don’t think she writes anymore, but –

Sarah: I remember her!

HelenKay: Yeah! We went out. I asked her if she wanted to go, and it’s like a whole-day thing, and it was fasci- – you know, I, you know, Grover, Pennsylvania, you grow up in farming country, and my grandfather had guns, but I never really shot them, so it was, it was fascinating. I wanted to know the feel of it so when my kind of novice heroines would pick up a gun to fire, would they really have any idea of what to do, how to hold it –

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: – etc?

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: ‘Cause it’s not just, Oh, you pick it up and you pull the trigger and you can kill the bad guy. That’s actually not how it works.

Sarah: No, they’re actually quite difficult to do accurately sometimes, yes.

HelenKay: And I realized because I have weird eyesight and a left eye that can turn in, that even though I’m right-handed, I actually sight a gun as if I’m left-handed, and that’s the way I have to – which I, of course, would not know if somebody came to my house and I just picked up a gun to shoot them. I, I –

Sarah: That’s wild!

HelenKay: I know! Isn’t it? It was – and it was inter-, and I just wanted the feel of the strength a bit, and –

Sarah: Well, you have to, you want to describe it!

HelenKay: Yeah! And I loved that the, kind of the, I think they were all, like, you know, it was like former FBI, former, they were all former something, Australian something was there too, and they were all really clear: they’re like, We think everybody should have to take a class –

Sarah: Wow!

HelenKay: – because it, these, these are, you know, these are, so many things can go wrong –

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: – and you need to know how not to have them go wrong, and they were great! And they were patient, and they kind of, you know, I, they knew why I was there, ‘cause I, ‘cause we told them –

Sarah: Yeah.

HelenKay: – you know, that we wrote, and we weren’t, you know, why it mattered, and they were like, Here’s why it matters, and, you know, kick back, everything. It was, it was, it was fantastic, and seeing him hold the gun like that reminds me, because one of the first things they talk about is how much they hate the Hollywood everybody has their hand on the trigger thing.

Sarah: Yeah, and they’re, like, running with their finger on the trigger.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, do you like having toes? Do you not like having feet? What are you doing?

HelenKay: Between that and when people on TV –

Sarah: Oh Jesus!

HelenKay: – tuck their gun behind them?

Sarah: They put the gun in their butt crack. What is that?!

HelenKay: [Laughs] They were all, they were all like, Please don’t do that. Don’t, don’t, no. Like, they’re like, Nobody who handles a gun and is serious about it –

Sarah: Is going to drop it in their ass crack.

HelenKay: – is going to put it in a butt…

Sarah: [Laughs] No guns in your butt! I’m sorry; hang on, I need to write that down as a potential subtitle for this episode: No Guns in Your Butt! There we go.

HelenKay: I, I don’t think that we can top that!

Sarah: No. But my, my, my three, my three working subtitles are Still Here; We Like Cursing, Anita; and No Guns in Your Butt, so we’ll have to see which one wins. [Laughs]

HelenKay: They’re all good.

Sarah: They’re all good! It’s ‘cause –

HelenKay: We can’t lose.

Sarah: – we’re so frigging funny.

On page 69 of the PDF – nice – I just want to point out that this book is called Cole – C-O-L-E – Cole in My Stocking.

HelenKay: Mmmm. Mm, mm, mm, mm, mm.

Sarah: Now, the previous books by Jessi Gage are Reckless and Jade’s Spirit, but now we’ve got Cole in My Stocking. Now, I love a pun cover. I love a pun title?

HelenKay: Mm, mm-hmm.

Sarah: That one’s not doing it for me, because it doesn’t seem to fit how serious this book is!

HelenKay: This book is serious.

Sarah: This is a serious book! Why isn’t it – you can’t put a jokey – I mean, I’m sure Jessi Gage is (a) listening and (2) gives a shit about my opinion, but, like, you can’t put a pun title –

HelenKay: Mm-mm.

Sarah: – on a, on a book that starts off with Mandy’s father is dead, his secrets live on, they’re putting her in danger. It’s a good thing she has a Harley-riding cop to help her face down her father’s enemies? But, like, that, yeah.

HelenKay: No.

Sarah: That, the, the title does not match –

HelenKay: Mm-mm.

Sarah: – the vibe here.

HelenKay: I mean, Cole in My Stocking sounds like it’s going to be a cute contemporary romance.

Sarah: Right? It looks like one of those Christmas books that, like, Sierra Simone and Julie –

HelenKay: Yeah!

Sarah: – Murphy are writing, about the town full of sex workers and, or exotic dancers. Like, it sounds like that would be one of their titles, not, like, you know, I have a Harley-riding cop and everyone who hates my dad hates me? Also –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – for the record, when I got to romance law school –

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: – we’re also going to have a section about how it will be an extremely severe punishment if you attempt to seek revenge on someone by terrorizing or wooing their child.

HelenKay: Yeah. Ahhh.

Sarah: Like, Oh, this man has screwed me, so I’m going to seduce his daughter. You are all gross. No, we’re not doing that.

HelenKay: Yeah. No, you’re all terrible people.

Sarah: The penalty for that will be so severe that no one will do it.

HelenKay: Yeah, no, we, we need to stop that.

Sarah: Yeah.

HelenKay: Just stop it.

Sarah: Women are, there just, there’s, there’s a lot of little things that exist in romance tropes where sometimes the heroine is an object? And I hate it.

HelenKay: Mm.

Sarah: I hate it a lot.

HelenKay: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just something to be bartered like –

Sarah: Right. Right, like –

HelenKay: Like a chicken sandwich.

Sarah: Yes. Bartered like a chicken sandwich. And there used to be all these books, do you remember when, like, virginity was a really big thing, and there would be these characters who were virgins and, like, everyone in the office knew they were a virgin, and they’d be like, How’s that pesky virginity today, Stacy?

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, ev-, somebody’s virginity was like an act-, I have to get rid of it! I have to get rid of my pesky virginity! And it’s like, Why? It’s like PAN: it’s not that meaningful.

HelenKay: Why does everybody know?

[Laughter]

Sarah: Why does everyone know about your sexual status?

HelenKay: Like, come on, now. Come on!

Sarah: PAN and virginity: not very meaningful.

HelenKay: No.

Sarah: No. Someone who was a member of PAN is listening, and it’s going to be like, No, actually, Sarah.

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: I would also like to point out to you the creepiest cover in this magazine.

HelenKay: Mm! Mm-hmm.

Sarah: PDF page 71.

HelenKay: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Number one, that’s Taylor Swift.

HelenKay: It’s absolutely Taylor Swift. Yeah…

Sarah: Number two, what is with her eyes? They are entirely dark.

HelenKay: And what does that have to do with the Outer Banks?

Sarah: It’s like demon Taylor Swift is looming up over the shore on the Outer Banks. List-, if it’s Hurricane Dead-eye Taylor, you need to go. Get off the beach.

HelenKay: And that should be the title.

Sarah: Right? 

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: Hurricane Taylor.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: ‘Cause she’s, like, looming over the beach, I assume, and she’s got, like, the, she’s like Storm in the X-Men when her eyes go one color? Except here it’s like dark with little highlights? It’s very creepy.

HelenKay: It’s, it’s weird. It, it’s –

Sarah: Like, she’s got some serious blood pressure problems, or you know, you know when in an accident and the sclera, the white part of your eye, like, you, you get a contusion and it’s like, that’s what this looks like. It’s super creepy.

HelenKay: Maybe that’s what it’s about.

Sarah: Maybe, I mean, maybe…

HelenKay: She’s at the Outer Banks, and she hurt her eye! You don’t know!

Sarah: Yeah? Taylor had a real bad day in the Outer Banks.

HelenKay: [Laughs] She, she had a bad day on the water.

Sarah: That’s real sad, man! I feel sad. Poor Taylor!

HelenKay: I never say poor Taylor very often, but…

Sarah: No, but really.

So – [laughs] – PDF page 85, RT page 83 – let me update my page number there. This summary and this ad are so wild.

HelenKay: For This Just In?

Sarah: Yes. So I’m going to read this. This is –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – okay. So the book features a woman, it’s a stock image, and she’s doing that I’m standing up and thinking pose where one hand is across your body holding your elbow, and then your hand is sort of like touching your chin, and your, you know, your, your index finger is against your mouth and you’re like, it’s like The Thinker, but stock photo. Like very like, Oh, I’m having some interesting thoughts here. Like, literally no one has ever stood this way on purpose, right?

HelenKay: No.

Sarah: No.

HelenKay: No one.

Sarah: Like, we don’t stand and go, Hmm. So This Just In: you are not prepared for this summary. You’re just –

HelenKay: You’re not.

Sarah: You’re just not for – this is, sometimes a romance is completely zany and it’s great.

HelenKay: Mm.

Sarah: >> For the most part, science teacher Gina Thompson is as pragmatic and level-headed as the next person. Her large family drives her crazy by getting her the worst blind dates on the planet. Ken Armstrong is an astrophysicist working at NASA. He is alone, except for his grouchy old cat and his grouchy old uncle, and he likes it fine that way. Then Uncle Johann meets Gina and decides she is the one for Ken.

HelenKay: Hmm.

Sarah: >> Through a series of planned mishaps and an icy visit from Mother Nature –

HelenKay: Mm.

Sarah: >> – these two seriously logical people discover that indeed there is scientific proof of love at first sight.

Okay, so what’s the plot?

HelenKay: That’s an excellent question.

Sarah: Like, what is the story? This is the start. What is the plot?

HelenKay: I – mm, yeah. There’s a difference between setup and plot.

Sarah: Yes. This is setup; this is not plot. And I think this is one of those books where if you read it you’re just like, There’s literally nothing preventing you from going to Bone Town.

HelenKay: Now.

Sarah: Just bone already.

HelenKay: And, and you’re scientists, so you’re smart people. Get there.

Sarah: Right?

HelenKay: Can a mishap be planned?

Sarah: A series of planned mishaps. Isn’t that a prank? A planned mishap, isn’t that pranking someone?

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: Is that what that technically is?

HelenKay: I’m confused by a lot. This is probably fantastic, ‘cause you never know.

Sarah: I’m sure this is an excellent book. I’m going to see if it’s on Goodreads. Let’s see what we have here.

HelenKay: The packaging is, is not a great choice. I’m going to say it that way. It’s not a great choice.

Sarah: I also wonder why it’s called This Just In when she’s a science teacher and he’s an astrophysicist? ‘Cause that sounds like journalism!

HelenKay: Yeaahh! Oh, you’re right!

Sarah: So we have six ratings, four reviews, and a 3.5 star average!

HelenKay: Okay!

Sarah: One review says:

>> If you’re looking for light and funny romance, this is the book. I can’t help but love the quirky main character.

Oh, there you go. And then the one-star review reads:

>> Not for me. The characters were annoying, and I had no interest in whether or not they ended up together. You’re both in your thirties, for crying out loud. Stop acting like fifth graders.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That really shows you the gamut of the, of this book.

HelenKay: Yes.

Sarah: I get it. A five-star and a one-star gives you the full picture. Got it.

HelenKay: And that’s the way they all are, right? Like, there’s always somebody who’s like, Stop it; grow up. And there’s somebody who’s like, That’s the cutest thing ever!

Sarah: Yes! Yes. Honestly, the most powerful thing you can identify in a review is where someone else’s line of bad is. Anyone can squee; squeeing is easy.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: But if you can articulate what went wrong for you and why you didn’t like it, that’s so informative to a reader who’s like, Oh! I will absolutely get email that says, Sarah, I love everything that you hate. Keep up the good work.

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, reviews – y’all, listen – reviews, like PAN and your virginity, are not that important. Like, I understand that they’re important for promotional purposes; I understand that the visual is important. The existence of the review? Very important. The content of the review? If you’re an author, it doesn’t matter.

HelenKay: No, and, and my number one – I mean, who is it that said If you, if you believe all the good ones, you’re going to have to believe the bad ones too, so –

Sarah: Yes!

HelenKay: – it’s just easier to say to yourself, It’s out there; it’s not mine anymore.

Sarah: Yep.

HelenKay: So people are going to believe – whatever they’re going to say about it, they’re going to say about it. The happiest day of my life is when I found, I think it was an Instagram account that reposted one-star reviews? And it was like one-star reviews of unbelievably great books, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

HelenKay: Like, and my favorite is, there is a whole group of people out there who hate the Berenstain Bears.

Sarah: [Laughs]

HelenKay: You remember that? I’m not kidding. I am not kidding. Like, like, like, I’m always like, Come on, man, they’re bears! What’s, why are you so upset about the bears? Some –

Sarah: I mean, you can get upset about the, the, the not-so-subtle Christian indoctrination and the –

HelenKay: Nope, that’s not it.

Sarah: – portrayal of a fumbling father. No! They just hate the bears.

HelenKay: No.

Sarah: Just hate them.

HelenKay: They hate the bears. They hate –

Sarah: Hate ‘em.

HelenKay: – what the, everything about the bears, and once I started reading that and I was like, I’m, I am, it is, one of my obsessions is how angry people are at the bears and – [pauses] – Hungry Caterpillar.

Sarah: Ohhh! That’s a wild one!

HelenKay: They’re, they’re, Why is he so hungry? Just eat, man! Just eat! And I’m like, I’m like – [laughs] – What is that hate right now? So once you see that –

Sarah: Oh yeah. Doesn’t matter.

HelenKay: – and you, and everything else is like, Whatever. What, like –

Sarah: Do you think the Berenstain Bear haters also hate the Charmin dingleberry bears?

HelenKay: [Gasps] I, oh, now we need to see if there’s, like, some kind of Venn diagram on that, ‘cause I – [laughs] – need to know!

Sarah: Right? Like, do people who hate the Berenstain Bears also hate the dingleberry bears? I don’t know if that’s their official name; that’s just what we call them.

HelenKay: Maybe it’s just like an anti-bear thing.

Sarah: Maybe it’s just bears! You know. I understand!

HelenKay: I don’t like bear families.

Sarah: That, that’s fine.

HelenKay: Which seems rude, but, you know, it’s…

Sarah: Okay! I mean, I don’t know what they did to you, but okay.

HelenKay: I, I don’t either!

Sarah: I used to give a whole workshop on how to interact with reviews online, because when we started doing reviews online –

HelenKay: Mm?

Sarah: – people were losing their shit, and, like, in the early days of the website we got a lot of hate mail, and I kept telling people, Did they say the name of your book? And did they spell your name correctly? You win! Go home. Celebrate. It doesn’t matter –

HelenKay: Yep.

Sarah: – what the review said. If they said the name of your book and your name and they spelled everything correctly? That is a victory! Somebody talked about your book! Like –

HelenKay: Exactly.

Sarah: – it’s fine! Go, go celebrate. You don’t have to read it! There’s no requirement that you read it. It’s fine!

HelenKay: And, you know, the Amazon algorithm that determines how often your book pops up and stuff goes by the number, like, of reviews –

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: – not how high your review is.

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: And that should tell you everything you need to do. And it’s really hard, right? Because, especially when the book isn’t out yet and not many people have seen it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – you know, it’s on NetGalley – you’re tempted. I get all of it. I really do.

Sarah: Oh, of course! You want to know what people think, because your only feedback so far is your agent, your proofreaders –

HelenKay: Exactly.

Sarah: – your editor, your, whoever you had read it, maybe your spouse if they’re lucky.

HelenKay: My last Darby Kane thriller was What the Wife Knew –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – and it is mostly told in the wife’s point of view, but there are, there are about thirty-four percent, thirty-five in the husband’s point of view, but he’s dead at the beginning of the book, so they, so it goes back and forth in time.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: So at the beginning of each chapter it’ll be like her now –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – her then, him now – exactly. Two reviews that came in next to each other: one, a woman was absolutely ticked off that, she took it down a star because it had her then or now at the beginning, ‘cause she doesn’t need to be told whose point of view it is, and so stop doing that. The next one, I could never tell whose point of view it was in, and I’m like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

HelenKay: – Just look up! It’s, it’s right there! You know, and it’s, it’s…and you keep stories like that in your head, where you have to say –

Sarah: There’s no winning!

HelenKay: – Okay!

Sarah: Yep.

HelenKay: There is – well, and it’s, it’s all subjective! Like, people will say whatever about your book, and they’ll, like, I really hate – I had a book called The Replacement Wife, and there was a review where the person was like, I really hated that the kid in this book sounded like he was five when he was ten. He was five. Right? Like, and I’m like, So I –

Sarah: You did a good job! [Laughs]

HelenKay: You know, so I’m like, Well, I guess nailed it, right?

Sarah: Yep!

HelenKay: You know, there’s, there’s a woman who –

Sarah: Doesn’t matter!

HelenKay: – who, who reviews my thrillers and says – [laughs] – I don’t like any of her thrillers, but she has reviewed every single one! So as far as I’m concerned, I’m like –

Sarah: Baby, you’re a fan!

HelenKay: – I’ll keep writing them! You’re going to keep reading them and getting mad! And I guess, I guess we’re fine!

Sarah: Yep!

HelenKay: But she talks about them, right? And there are things in books that I don’t like, and the second I say, Oh, well, I don’t like this, somebody will love that!

Sarah: Oh yeah.

HelenKay: And that’s, that’ll be why they buy the book, and that’s –

Sarah: Absolutely!

HelenKay: – the whole point.

Sarah: That’s the whole point!

HelenKay: That’s the whole point.

Sarah: And, and I say this, I say this a lot: a review should, in my opinion, when I am editing reviews, I don’t want a book report; I don’t want a summary of what happened.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: I want to know what happened when you read the book. This is about you and the book and what you thought and how you felt and what, what your experience with the book was. That belongs to every reader. Like, I’ve published books. I don’t have any say in their experience with my books. If they hate them, okay. I remember when I was talking with you at one point about when I self-published Lighting the Flames, and I was saying, you know, When I actually hit the little Publish button, I was really, like, nervous! Like, I was sweating; I was nervous. I was like, Wow! Why am I so nervous? And you were like, Were you afraid of a bad review? And I was like, No! That wasn’t it at all!

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: I think I was afraid of being perceived or something, but, like, hitting the Publish button is scary! But literally after that point, it doesn’t matter!

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: I did the thing; it’s done. Write another book.

HelenKay: It’s the point that you lose all control over it, right? Like –

Sarah: Yes.

HelenKay: – up until then, you still say to yourself, Well, I could, I could edit –

Sarah: I can fix it.

HelenKay: I can fix it. I can edit it. If there’s –

Sarah: Yep.

HelenKay: – if there’s a mistake, I can make sure there’s not a mistake. And there is a point at which you just have to say –

Sarah: All right.

HelenKay: I, I –

Sarah: It’s done.

HelenKay: I’ve got to let go! There’s –

Sarah: I’m still mad at myself for forgetting this person’s name. They wrote a ton, ton, ton of romantic suspense for Harlequin. They had three names; they were tall; they were blonde; they were super successful; they were really, really nice; and they gave me one of the best quotes for that whole presentation, which was, If I get a bad review I just write another book.

HelenKay: That’s exactly right.

Sarah: Because if you’ve written one book, well, that’s going to be very painful. If you’ve written sixty-five, then it doesn’t really matter what they say about any of them, ‘cause you’ve got sixty-five damn books! Like, who cares? Do you think Nora Roberts gives a shit? She does not.

HelenKay: Exactly. Exactly, and I, my, my first thriller ever was called Pretty Little Wife, and there are people who absolutely hate that book, and every time I, I think of the person who hates it I’m like, O-, okay, but it was the main pick on Book of the Month –

Sarah: Yeah!

HelenKay: – Club –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – and it was the –

Sarah: An international bestseller!

HelenKay: It was number one on the Canadian best-, bestseller list; on the, on the Netherlands bestseller list; on the – you know, and you have to say to yourself, But that’s how books work for me too! There are people who are on the New York Times or not on the New York Times, and everybody’s talking about their book, and I’m like, I read it, and I don’t get it! I don’t, I don’t get it! I don’t understand why Reese picked it; I don’t understand – but it doesn’t matter why I do. A whole lot of people do, so there, good for you! Run to your bank and cash those big checks.

Sarah: Oh –

HelenKay: I’m all for it.

Sarah: – when the, when the dump truck of money –

HelenKay: That’s right.

Sarah: – comes up to your driveway, seriously, it doesn’t matter –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – what the review was. Did you get paid?

HelenKay: …what everybody – yeah! They say whatever they say. I’m like, I’m sure she’s rolling around in her piles of cash really upset that you didn’t like her book. Who gives a crap?

Sarah: What I have told people in very different, many different situations, like, Oh, I did this and, you know, somebody didn’t like it. Did the check clear?

HelenKay: Yeah, exactly.

Sarah: If the check cleared, then you are fine!

HelenKay: That’s a win!

Sarah: That’s a win.

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: Moving on to PDF page 88 and 89, there’s a two-page column ad for Loose Id, and it’s weird. It’s just a weird ad. So on page 86, on the left side, there’s a one-third column –

HelenKay: You’re right!

Sarah: – called Id-dulge in Romance.

HelenKay: No. Mm-mm. Don’t care for that.

Sarah: And there’s a picture of a butt. You don’t know it’s a butt until later, but it’s a butt, and it’s behind one of those weird flower arrangements where it’s, like, all dried flowers and then, like, gnarly-looking stems that go out in all directions, and some roses and some chocolate, and then there’s a, maybe that’s an iPad, maybe it’s a gen-, generic thing, but it’s showing the Loose Id homepage. So Id-dulge in Romance, and then you scroll down and you realize, Oh, that was a butt, because it’s a person getting a massage by somebody with a really, really good French manicure? Like –

HelenKay: Yeah, no, that is a good French manicure. Yeah.

Sarah: But, but the way that the ad is set up and the way this photo is, your eye is drawn to the lightest part? And they were going to highlight, like, they were going for highlighting her face and the towel and the, and the Loose Id tablet, but because the French manicure is so bright and so in-focus, this whole ad, your eye just goes to this person’s nails!

HelenKay: Yeah. Yeah, no, now I think I need a manicure, ‘cause I feel like –

Sarah: Right?

HelenKay: – I’ve let that go. But yeah, I don’t, I also thought with this ad, when I saw on the first half of it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – in the body, I thought it was a dude! And then you come down and it’s actually a very pretty woman, and I’m like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – did they have two different models? Those bodies don’t seem to match! But, yeah.

Sarah: Androgynous butt.

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: Page 86. Okay, I think I need to add that to my subtitles list. And –

HelenKay: Honestly, you’re going to have a hard time picking. That’s all I’m saying.

Sarah: I am. I might have to put this to the Patreon community. Androgynous butt. [Laughs]

HelenKay: Which of these things do you want us to focus on? [Laughs]

Sarah: On page 86.

Page PDF 95.

HelenKay: Mm.

Sarah: Page 93 of the magazine. There is a full-page article called “Inspiration found at RT Booklovers Convention,” and it is all about a, I think it’s a mailing list? That this person founded of, they saw a group of women doing an author support group, and they started The Indie Voice, which was to help them cross-promote your books. So put together a bunch of authors who have similar size audiences, and you cross-promote and ka-boom, and then they all hit the New York Times bestseller list within six weeks of each other. That was when you could also do that thing where you released an anthology –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – for a dollar and you got preorders, and then everyone would be a bestseller, because everyone would buy the 99-cent anthology –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – with seventy-five thousand books in it? So the rest of this article is about how this person is a promotions consultant, and owner of a marketing promotions company, and started her own author group, and it’s basically like SpawnCon.

HelenKay: [Laughs] Yeah.

Sarah: It’s basically like a, it’s like an ad.

HelenKay: It is. Which is pretty impressive, actually.

Sarah: I mean, it’s impressive to get this full-page ad and, like, whatever; that’s cool. The book lover event of the year, and she’s promoting the conference, so I guess they’re like, Here you go. Good on this person for having this full page –

HelenKay: Yeah!

Sarah: – to talk about (a) their books and (b) their, their author support network. That’s great, but this is like a whole page of SpawnCon! I forgot that part of RT. Like, you’d have an article and be like, Oh, this –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – oh, oh, this is an ad for the thing. Okay, I got it.

HelenKay: That is, wow.

Sarah: And then on page 96 and 97 are all of the authors going to RT, who will be signing at the Hyatt Regency Dallas in May 2015.

HelenKay: Woohoo! And apparently I went to RT Dallas!

Sarah: Yeah! ‘Cause you’re here!

HelenKay: I’m here! I’m on the list!

Sarah: …Although I will tell you, I don’t know if you know this. I heard from someone who used to work closely with RT and RT authors that sometimes RT would announce that an author was attending –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – who was not, and then they would, like, have to place an ad to say, I’m not coming?

HelenKay: It is true. I remember at least once seeing my name on the list and being like, Wait, did I sign up for that> Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. They’re like, Yeah, you’re coming. We’ll just reproduce it. And, I mean, are they count-, is it kind of like when you sign up for a subscription and it just auto-bills your credit card, and you’re like, you forget about it? Like, Oh yeah, I signed up for RT. Except for the expense of RT, which was considerable.

HelenKay: Considerable.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

HelenKay: Consider- – that’s a lot of names!

Sarah: Oh yeah, the signing was huge, and I just want to tell you, having a W in your name is great, because I am in the last row. I face all of the wall with all the authors who have their own single table, ‘cause they don’t have a big line?

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: I’m, this year I was next to Jaye Wells, who is fantastic to sit next to.

HelenKay: Oh!

Sarah: I was two seats down from Scott Westerfeld. Like, I was surrounded by really cool people in the Ws; and the room was behind me, so I didn’t have, like, anxiety about how many people were between me and the door; and I got all the air-conditioning.

HelenKay: I am jealous!

Sarah: You need to change your last name to starting with the end of the alphabet. Trust me, it’s great.

HelenKay: I already have a hard enough time ‘cause people don’t know how to say Dimon.

Sarah: All right, fine.

HelenKay: But yeah, when I, I picked Darby Kane, I had something else – I think Darby was originally what I was going to use as a last name –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – and I had a different first, and I sent it to HarperCollins, and they were like, No. And that was the first time I was like, Wait a minute, you get a say?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

HelenKay: [Laughs] I had no idea!

Sarah: Sales, this is now your job.

HelenKay: I ended up picking Darby for those of you out there who are Pelican Brief fans. That is the main character’s, female character’s name in The Pelican Brief; it’s Darby, played by Julia Roberts in the movie. So that’s why…

Sarah: That’s a good provenance for that name!

HelenKay: How ‘bout that?

Sarah: Excellent!

HelenKay: That’s why I picked it. And it’s Kane because HarperCollins said Pick something in the middle of the alphabet that’s easy to spell.

Sarah: Well, there you go!

HelenKay: Good advice. Good advice.

Sarah: PDF page 98 is the giveaways page, and they’re giving away your books!

HelenKay: That is, that is so fantastic! Wait, good job, Avon! I love that they did that, and Running Hot. So they gave away Playing Dirty. Running Hot is the novella, which I actually wrote second, but that’s the one that I love the opening, because she is MI6, and she has the hero tied to a chair. He’s CIA, and she’s going through his wallet, and she basically knocks him out. As you do.

Sarah: That title, again, is Running Hot.

HelenKay: Running Hot.

Sarah: It will be in the show notes; do not worry.

HelenKay: Now, I do want you to look at that cover for a second, which they know I hate that cover. [Laughs] The reason I hate that cover is –

Sarah: Why is he grabbing his crotch?

HelenKay: Well, okay. First of all, I don’t think he’s particularly attractive. I do not like, like, the weird necklace chain thing he has. None of it fit the character, but when they initially sent it to me, it’s this guy, and he was wearing a jean jacket?

Sarah: Oh no.

HelenKay: And I said, This book takes place in Fiji. Do you –

Sarah: And he’s not wearing denim.

HelenKay: – any idea how hot Fiji is?

Sarah: [Laughs]

HelenKay: This does not work, and they made it a short sleeve.

Sarah: Part of the problem here is that the angle of his head makes his forehead look four feet wide –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – and his chin is, it looks like his head is a triangle, and the straight line of his haircut is not helping. This guy has a triangular face.

HelenKay: It, I just, it just doesn’t work for me, and I’m not sure what’s going on in his pants, but we are very bulgy.

Sarah: He’s very bulgy, and he’s made –

HelenKay: Very bulgy.

Sarah: – a fist on his thigh like he really has to pee and he needs people to just, like, stop talking to him so he can go run to the men’s room?

HelenKay: Well, if you were tied to a chair, you would be upset too!

Sarah: Fair enough.

HelenKay: I’m just saying. Just saying!

Sarah: I also, we’ve talked about this before, but I just want to point out to you how absolutely unhinged the giveaway style at RT magazine is.

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: So every single giveaway – and there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven giveaways – deadline to entry was February 10, 2015, so you’ve missed the deadline – every single one of these giveaways goes to the same email address. They are all –

HelenKay: Oh, wow!

Sarah: – Giveaways@RTBookReviews, and then you add the subject line “Under the Skin” or “Glamor Giveaway” or whatever. You have to put the giveaway in the subject line. Now, first of all, you know, nobody remembered to do that.

HelenKay: No.

Sarah: They were like, Oh, HelenKay Dimon giveaway, Sylvain Reynard giveaway, audiobook giveaway. Like, they, nobody did that. But number two, you have to send your name and address each time. So here’s like –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – send your name and address, email your name and address, email you name and address. Rather than having, like, a form where you could enter your name and address and be entered to – you have to send seven separate email messages to the same email address with different subject lines with your name and address. And you know someone sat there and did that every month.

HelenKay: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Then, oh yeah, what they did is they had a, they just changed, I think, probably the subject line…right? Like –

Sarah: Yeah, yeah! Boom, boom, boom, boom –

HelenKay: Yeah?

Sarah: – yeah. This is –

HelenKay: That is old school.

Sarah: This way of running a giveaway is truly unhinged to me.

HelenKay: Yeah. I…

Sarah: Like, I already get a lot of email. This would just make me want to crawl into a hole and hide from the world.

HelenKay: Yeah, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t take that well if I was the person in charge of that.

Sarah: So we have the normal pictures of, you know, who’s coming to RT Dallas 2015, which I remember was being a pretty fun one. The major headliners that they’re highlighting are Kresley Cole, Lisa Kleypas, Meg Cabot, Eloisa James, Jill Shalvis, Sandra Brown, Charlaine Harris, Kathy Reichs – who’s got a great blowout in that picture –

HelenKay: She really does.

Sarah: – Jennifer L. Armentrout, ten years ago a feature author at RT; and Sylvia Day, of course. I will never forget, by the way, RWA in Anaheim, because we had the hotel and then the conference center was separate, and you had to walk down a block, and it was –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – all under construction, and people were hella pissed about it, but also the front desk was pretty hidden. This might have been –

HelenKay: Mm!

Sarah: – was this Anaheim or San Diego? It might have been San Diego. Either way, you had to go down a hall and then turn left to find Reception and the front door, and there was this big banner of Sylvia Day hung on that pillar, but at eye level was her bosom.

HelenKay: Sure! She has a good bosom!

Sarah: So you’d walk down the hall, and just right in front of your line of sight was boobs. And people started giving directions: Okay, when you see Sylvia Day and her boobs, turn left.

HelenKay: Yeah, go to the boobs –

Sarah: Turn left at Sylvia. Yes.

HelenKay: – take a right. [Laughs]

Sarah: And one year she hung a whole banner on the hotel.

HelenKay: Yeah! Oh yeah, she did some impressive –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

HelenKay: – impressive stuff.

Sarah: Incredible.

HelenKay: Big time. Big. Time.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

All right, so we have now spent roughly six hours together –

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: – talking about this magazine. First of all, thank you for being so generous with your time. I’ve had the best time. I –

HelenKay: Me, me too!

Sarah: I will tell you that I said in my Patreon for the podcast, I, I said to everybody, Sooo, y’all –

HelenKay: [Laughs]

Sarah: – so how do you feel about long-ass episodes? My next RT Rewind is with HelenKay, and we’re clocking it at 1:53:30 before I add the intro/outro, and it was so interesting and there’s so much I couldn’t cut anything, and everyone said, Give me the minutes!

HelenKay: Yaaay!

Sarah: Give it to me! So a lot of people will be very excited to have –

HelenKay: Oh, that’s awesome.

Sarah: – long episodes for people to listen to, so everyone’s very excited to hear all of your wisdom.

What did you think of this issue?

HelenKay: Of, of the entire issue? I, I, again, I’m just stunned at how much they covered and how little I appreciated how much work this was.

Sarah: Right? You look at it now and you’re like, every month you did this? There’s two hundred and forty-eight –

HelenKay: I, I don’t, I don’t know how. I don’t get it.

Sarah: – new books reviewed. Every month it was more than two hundred books.

HelenKay: I, I can’t, I, I don’t know how any of them did it. I really, I mean, it’s, it’s an extraordinary amount of work, and an amount of information. I mean, I wish today sometimes, I’m like, What’s coming out on Tuesday? I’ve got to look at nine hundred different sources until I figure out across, you know, all these different genres what’s coming out so I can see what I want to buy and bankrupt myself with.

Sarah: The one thing I’m surprised that they didn’t offer was like a shopping list.

HelenKay: Remember, Borders used to do that.

Sarah: Yeah! Borders used to have a shopping list, or a lot of author promo, when people did, like, Promo Alley or stuff, there would be –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – like, TBR list notepads.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: I remember Promo Alley. That was –

HelenKay: That was something else.

Sarah: That was something else. You paid for a table, and you just put your promo stuff there. And you could come –

HelenKay: Yes.

Sarah: – refresh it, but you just left all your promo stuff there. DIY promo is still so hard.

HelenKay: So hard, but I, I, I, you know, I’m sad because I no longer, now I have to buy my own nail files, pens, and potato chip bag clips, whereas –

Sarah: That’s good promo, though.

HelenKay: – for years, that was taken care of by everybody on that alley. That’s the stuff that I would always pick up: the nail files, the pens, and those potato chip clip bags? I was like, Do they sell them, or are they only promo items?

Sarah: [Laughs]

HelenKay: Like, I don’t even know, where do you get them? [Laughs]

Sarah: Can you only get them with people’s names on them? Is that how this works?

What do you think has been your most successful promo item?

HelenKay: That is an excellent question!

Sarah: One of my favorites was when Shelly Laurenston was the keynote speaker and she was, like, no promo, no nothing. Kensington was like, We want to do something. Can we do nail files?

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: And she’s like, Fine. So it’s this little oval nail file on a key ring that says Keep Your Claws Sharp –

HelenKay: That’s fantastic.

Sarah: – Shelly Laurenston. I have that in my kitchen; I use it all. The. Time.

HelenKay: I, I have to say, what I always found most effective – and authors won’t love this, but – is the free book. I, like, when I started going to RT –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – I didn’t read series romance.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: But I got – I’ll never – Susan Mallery –

Sarah: Oh dang!

HelenKay: – and like four other authors back then, ‘cause they were all writing for, like – Carly Phillips – they were all writing for, like, Temptation –

Sarah: Yeah.

HelenKay: – and I picked up free, you know, from the room, those books, and then I went and I read more of the books.

Sarah: Yep!

HelenKay: So I, I, I don’t think we should ever underestimate how you can catch a reader by just, like, they like your book; even if they don’t love the voice, they like your – and they’re willing to give you one more shot.

Sarah: And that was one of the benefits of RW-, of RWA and RT, but mostly RT.

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: What you got when you paid that registration fee, they were cognizant that you wanted to go home with stuff. Like, my –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – first RT, I remember packing a suitcase and putting it inside another suitcase ‘cause I was going to fill that suitcase with books.

HelenKay: Oh yeah.

Sarah: Books on tape, like literal cassette tapes? Promo, magazines. Like, you would come home with so many books, and publishers don’t do that anymore. Used to be you’d go into a banquet hall, like at RWA, and there’d be two books on every place setting, and how many people attended RWA national?

HelenKay: I don’t know.

Sarah: Like three thousand?

HelenKay: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah!

HelenKay: I mean, it’s –

Sarah: They don’t do that anymore.

HelenKay: I can’t remember if it’s ThrillerFest or Bouchercon, but one of them, like, you go into the room and you can pick, I think it’s three or four books, and I’m like, This is, yes! Like, I, like, I’m always like, my book better be in the room, ‘cause I want that person who has never – and, you know, like, the books can be twenty bucks now, right? Like –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

HelenKay: – like, for paperback, and go in and pick it up! Hopefully you like it! And if you don’t –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

HelenKay: – hopefully you give it to somebody who does, or you put in Goodwill or a library box, and somebody picks it up, you know?

Sarah: But at that time, picking up a physical book for free felt like –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – you were getting something.

HelenKay: It did.

Sarah: If felt like you –

HelenKay: It did.

Sarah: – were getting a thing. Especially if it was –

HelenKay: Yeah.

Sarah: – a single title or, ooh, a hardcover? A free hardcover? Woo!

HelenKay: Yeah. Oh yeah. And, well, and there’d be, I remember Eloisa James’ first book came out in hardcover –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

HelenKay: – as a historical, and it was like – [gasps] – It’s in hardcover! Right? And it’s her debut, and they gave away copies at whatever it was, RW-, whatever. And everybody was reading it, because –

Sarah: Yeah!

HelenKay: – everybody was like, well, first of all…

Sarah: It’s in hardcover.

HelenKay: It’s in hardcover – [laughs] – and –

Sarah: What the hell is that?

HelenKay: – and, I mean, you know, her career did fine after that! [Laughs]

Sarah: Sure did.

Well, thank you so much for doing this. I don’t know what I’m going to do next week when I don’t talk to you for two hours.

HelenKay: [Laughs] I know, I know! I’m like, Am I in another one? How can we –

Sarah: Just going to have to call you back.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you for journeying back in time with me to February 2015 three times this month, and thank you especially to HelenKay for contributing so much to these episodes. I hope you have enjoyed them as much as I have.

And you know where all the links and the books are, right? And the visual aids? They’re over at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 669, but I will link to the visual aids in the show notes, never fear.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. This is terrible, and that’s why I’m telling you.

Why can’t dinosaurs clap their hands?

Why can’t dinosaurs clap their hands?

Because they’re extinct.

[Laughs] I’m sure many of you guessed that or knew that joke, but I did not know that joke, and I am delighted.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend. We will see you back here next week for a very, very special episode with Chelsea Devantez. Until then, in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]