729. RT Rewind: March 2009 Ads & Features

[intro]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 729 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and – wait, you, don’t go anywhere! We’re all getting in the time machine! We’re going to bring you back to March 2009 to check out the ads and features from Romantic Times magazine! We have got some snippy letters to the editor; we’ve got a lot of covers that look like ads; we’ve got reading in a recession, folks explaining steampunk, pop versus soda, and you’ll find out what words are used in an acrostic of pandemic.

Now, a small TRIGGER WARNING: in the middle, you are going to hear from Editing Sarah, which is when I interject additional commentary or info into the episode while I’m editing it. That segment is about a minute and a half long. There is some really gross fatphobia and some mean terminology in that section, so if you don’t want to hear it, skip ahead thirty seconds when I start reading the paragraph aloud. I want you to enjoy the show.

You can find a video of this episode as well, where you get to see our recorded reactions to this mayhem, along with overlays and pictures of the ads and some of the book covers, at our YouTube channel, which is at Smart Podcast Trashy Books on YouTube.

I have a compliment this week. This compliment is for, okay, Apers? Apers: A-P-E-R-S. Appers? I think it’s Apers. I hope I did that right.

You are the person that all of your friends want to be with in a long, endless line, because being with you is inherently fun and always a good time for everyone. Even in line at the DMV.

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I will have links to all of the places on the internet that we discuss and all of the books that we mention at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 729.

Are you ready to go back to March 2009? We’ve got all your favorite snacks. Let’s get in the time machine. On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: So we’re here to talk about the ads and features from March 2009, and we have so many interesting things to talk about?

Amanda: I mean, this issue in general is very good. Ooh, okay, I’m ready.

Sarah: This issue is top shelf.

So let’s start with the cover. We mentioned in the reviews episode that this is a really good cover! It’s the book! And then the colors from the book, and then a sidebar with lots of other things, including Angel’s Blood from Nalini Singh which somehow, even though being a completely different color scheme, works really well with this cover?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Amazing. I am not good at colors. This is always, you know, interesting to me.

But a long, long time ago, I had an email correspondence with Robin Schone. So I emailed her through her website, and I said, Hello! We are going to be recapping this issue of RT, and you’re on the cover, and I wondered if you would like to share an update with the podcast audience, maybe any memories of RT? And are you ready for a truly incredible email?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: All right.

>> Thank you so much for thinking of me. Wow, what a blast from the past.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, no kidding, girl!

>> Alas, I do not have a copy of the RT March 2009 edition. I wish I did.

I’m going to send her the PDF.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: >> Cry for Passion came out a couple of months after I had a widowmaker heart attack on Christmas Day 2008, which ultimately resulted in a heart transplant on Christmas Eve 2010.

Amanda: Oh my God!

Sarah: >> I subscribed to RT magazine then, so possibly that edition was tossed while I was recovering, or I lost it when my office flooded five years ago.

>> I loved RT. The industry at that time belauded RWA, but members were so hell-bent on gaining respectability for romance that writers like me who walked the tightrope between traditional and erotic weren’t really welcome.

I well remember those days.

>> RWA’s emphasis was empowerment through traditional family values, whereas I was about empowerment through celebrating women’s sexuality – with a hot dude, of course. And adultery, which Cry for Passion included, was possibly a worse sin than a woman discovering that she had a clitoris and knowing what to do with it. Or to it, as the case may be.

[Snorts] What to do with it or to it? I love this woman.

>> I wanted historical reality; traditional romance celebrated the fantasy.

>> But RT, what a hoot. RT was about diversity. RT welcomed both me and my husband with open arms, as did RT readers for the most part. RT conventions gave me a chance to mingle with like-minded people. It also introduced me to international readers, which ultimately led to international publication. Never underestimate readers. They can move mountains and even get no-name authors like me international contracts. I would go so far as to say that RT was yesterday’s BookTok.

>> It took a long time –

Amanda: That’s…sweet!

Sarah: Isn’t that adorable? This, this is such a lovely email.

>> It took a long time to recover from the transplant, not just medically, but also financially. There was no affordable healthcare then. I worked with my husband to get our heads floating and not luve our, lose our home and to pay for very expensive medications. Just when we were getting our footing again and I was looking forward to getting back to writing, my husband was diagnosed with a cancer that should have been curable but wasn’t cured. Afterward, my mother slowly succumbed to Alzheimer’s, and now I’m back and I’m trying to make inroads.

>> The wonderful world of romance has changed and yet, strangely, has not. The good news is I now own rights to all my works except, funnily enough, Cry for Passion, the book I finished just before this heart attack. Most recently the rights to A Man and a Woman from the anthology Fascinated reverted back to me. I didn’t feel comfortable reissuing it as was, so I tweaked their story and released it last year under a new title, The Widow and the Eunuch. As Publishers Weekly wrote, it’s, quote, Probably the first 53-year-old eunuch to be a romance hero.

>> I never discuss what I’m working on – very superstitious of me, I know – but I am working on a new historical romance that has captured my passion. Plus, I finished a political satire that only an erotic romance author would write: An American Chick in Pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Fowl Love.

F-O-W-L.

>> Yes, the heroine is a chicken. I warned you it was political satire.

>> Thank you again for reaching out. It means so much to be remembered. If you have questions about anything at all, please don’t hesitate to contact me. Best wishes, Robin Schone.

>> PS, if you have a JPEG of that March 2009 RT, I would appreciate it if you kindly forwarded it.

First of all, this girl’s going to get the whole PDF. She’s going to be like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – What is this giant thing in my email? But second of all, holy shit, right?

Amanda: I know! I mean, I know it’s the pregnancy hormones, but I’m crying.

Sarah: Oh, no! This, well, the first time I read it I teared up too! Like, oh my gosh! What –

Amanda: The whole, like, It means so much to be remembered? Oh my God!

Sarah: Right? And –

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: – I remember long, long, long ago emailing Robin Schone – I don’t know if I was asking her a question about writing, ‘cause at that point I thought I wanted to be a romance writer.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But I remember emailing her and saying something about writing, and I remember her saying to me, You are the one with Sarah Wendell’s voice. Only you can write like Sarah Wendell, and so your job is to foster your voice, basically. Your job is to grow your voice, because you are the only one who can write like you. And as someone who does write with a very specific voice, she’s right about that. Isn’t that incredible?

Amanda: That’s such a lovely email.

Sarah: I’m going to reach out to her and ask if she’d like to be on the podcast. Would you like to talk with her with me? Talk about –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – what’s changed and tell me more about this chicken; need to know about the chicken.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Do need to know more about this. But yes, thank you very, very much to Robin Schone for writing back to me so that we could have her as part of the issue on which she is the cover. And I will be forwarding her this big ol’ PDF!

So here we go! Let’s go –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – into it!

Amanda: [Sighs]

Sarah: I love how your note on the cover is Get this man out of here.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And I’m, I’m going, I’m, I’m going to introduce a theme for this is-, for this issue. And this is something that I thought of this morning, the day of we are recording. You ever hear people talk about male-centered women?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: This is a much more popular topic online, especially on social media, but this is a descriptive term for women for whom their existence is centered around men, appealing to men, being attractive to men. Their focus is men. And so male-centered women and women-centered women are two very different groups, and I realized that a lot of the romance community in conferences, especially RT and RWA, there were a lot of male-centered women. Even in a group that was entirely women sometimes, like a, a session that was all women, there, you could tell the difference. And one of the other ways you could tell the difference is that male-centered women really struggle to be girls’ girls. They really struggle to support other women, because if you are a male-centered person, then you are playing into the dominant patriarchy. Other women are a threat to you for access to this resource. So you can’t really be a girls’ girl and also be a male-centered women, woman, I think. If you think I, if you disagree, please correct me. But there are a lot of signs of male-centered women in this issue and the way that the romance community in general, as you  pointed out, reacts to any man in our presence. There’s a lot of what I used to call the man in the hen house? There’s a lot of men in the hen house in this issue.

Amanda: Well, we’ve seen this in other issues before. So the, the cover, in the top left corner is a photo of author Charles de Lint, and it says Up close with Charles de Lint. And then there is a banner at the top that says, We’re just wild about Barry Eisler. In other issues, too, like, when they do publishing spotlights, a lot of the men who lead these romance imprints, or a lot of the people who wrote, lead these romance imprints are men. There’s a lot of –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – features on male authors sometimes, and male authors not necessarily writing romance, but, like, male authors who might be in sci-fi/fantasy. We did one where it talks about what’s his face, the actor who played the Highlander in the Highlander TV show, right? Like –

Sarah: Yes, we just did that one.

Amanda: There’s just a lot of features, or more features than I would think would be in a magazine about romance, which predominantly is read and consumed by women and get, having these straight old men in here, I’m like, Get out! I don’t want to look at you in my magazine!

Sarah: Now, this is nothing against Charles de Lint –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – but it is very strange how, as you point out, RT likes to feature a dude in just about every issue in some way, whether it’s like, We’re inviting all these publishing executives, or here is this agent, or here are these authors. It’s a very interesting thing to think about male-centered women versus women-centered women, and that’s a very specific cultural difference. And until I really thought about it in terms of the gatherings and the way that the magazine is set up, it, it’s, it’s a very, very fascinating dichotomy that shows up in a lot of places.

Now, this, of course, is not to say that, men and nonbinary people who don’t identify as either gender are not welcome in romance. You absolutely are. But there is a longstanding habit of immediately centering any cishet male, especially if they’re white, who shows the slightest interest in the romance genre; like, all of a sudden we need to talk about them. It happens all the time.

Amanda: I’m, I’m going to say something very spicy, okay? I’m not even going to say this is sort of isolated to cishet men.

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: The romance community has gotten itself into a lot of fucking trouble backing very prominent gay men in the genre who have appointed themselves as spokespersons for the genre.

Sarah: Oh my!

Amanda: There’s been a, a lot of times romance has backed the wrong horse!

Sarah: I have seen this happen at least two times, yes! One most, most, most significantly, you don’t say.

Amanda: So they don’t even have to be straight men. I think there is a –

Sarah: No! That’s a good point! It’s a good point.

Amanda: – like, a, a novelty of a man –

Sarah: Hundred percent.

Amanda: – in what is typically described as a –

Sarah: It’s a man! A man at the romance conference! Yeah, there’s –

Amanda: – [laughs] – a women’s –

Sarah: It’s a man! Yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of that! Especially, like, in, in R, RT at this time? Like, I think this conference was the one that was in Orlando. And if you went to RT a lot, that’s the one where all the credit card numbers got stolen by the front desk of the hotel, if you recall. So, yeah, there’s a lot of – [gasps] – It’s a man! going on.

And that sort of male-centered attitude, I think, is a very interesting element to the romance community that does not get discussed a lot, but it’s very pervasive, particularly in this issue. There’s a lot of men that they want us to know about, and I’m just like, I don’t, I’m sorry, I don’t care.

Amanda: I don’t need to know about any more men. I’ve, I’ve hit my quota?

Sarah: I’m, I’m good. [Laughs]

Amanda: No more. We’ve reached capacity –

Sarah: Please!

Amanda: – of men that I know.

Sarah: You didn’t even marry a man! You married a nonbinary person. You really are done with men!

Amanda: That’s the loophole, everyone. Get yourself –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – a sweet nonbinary angel. That’s the loophole.

Sarah: So looking at the inside cover, it’s Nicole Jordan’s series, but I just want to call attention to the cover art? We have two backs, a shoulder, and a knee.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: We have two women from the back –

Amanda: Heads, shoulders, knees, and toes, if you will.

Sarah: We just have two, two backs, a side and a back, and they’re, you know, the un-, the, the dress is being undressed. And then somebody’s pulling a sleeve down a shoulder, and then there’s a knee. So I’m like, two backs, a shoulder, and a knee. Just body parts.

Amanda: There’s, there’s an ad later in the issue that I call out, but a lot of these historical covers sometimes look like a shaving ad.

Sarah: Oh my God! Yes, they do!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, you’re so – like, Nair! Shing! Yeah, totally. These look like, these look like depilatory ads.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Depilatory? Dep-, depilation.

Amanda: Dep-, depilatory? Dep- –

Sarah: Depilatory. We’re going to, we’re going to –

Amanda: I – whatever. You know what we’re trying to say!

Sarah: All of the ways we said it are right. That’s how this works.

On PDF page 6, the top of the letter from Kathryn Falk, Lady of Barrow, talks about Robin Schone, does mention the massive heart attack on Christmas, and she’s on the mend, and it has a P.O. box if you would like to write her a note, which I think is actually very sweet.

And we get to Kathryn’s wedding. Kathryn’s wedding is in this issue. Her wedding was celebrated on January 11th. Heather Graham and Virginia Henley were there.

Amanda: A dog was there, in case you’re wondering if –

Sarah: Dog, yep.

>> My good friend Rima, one of the top Middle Eastern chefs in New York, traveled to Alvin, Texas, with her culinary utensils, phyllo dough, and date cookies and worked her magic in the kitchen for a full week.

Rima is either a mononym or Kathryn didn’t bother to include her last name, but I cannot find who this was because there’s so many other famous Rimas that I can’t figure it out if there’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – if she has a cookbook.

Amanda:, I think doing, like, Rima Middle Eastern chef is not super –

Sarah: Doesn’t do anything for us, unfortunately.

So mazel tov to Kathryn, who got married in 2009!

Amanda: Yeah, even googling Rima Kathryn Falk, nothing.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Nothing at all. [Laughs]

I talked about Animal Attraction in the reviews, but –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – you called out this cover even before you knew that I – [laughs] – had picked –

Sarah: That’s right, I did! I had made this note beforehand.

Amanda: – I had picked out this review!

Sarah: I just, I’m really good at picking out books for you this month in this issue.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: I’m really proud of myself!

Amanda: Yeah! So it’s just the cover of Animal Attraction, which we talked about in the reviews of woman finds out she’s a werewolf, has to find a mate, she goes on this Bachelorette-esque sort of quest and gets to –

Sarah: Hell yeah.

Amanda: – gets to take thirteen men for a spin!

Sarah: Whomst –

Amanda: But there’s, like, a cover –

 yeah. Whomst among us?

Amanda: Yeah! Whomst among us hasn’t been –

Sarah: The cover’s very hot, too.

Amanda: Yeah, it’s, the top half is –

Sarah: It’s very different.

Amanda: – like a full moon, and then it’s sort of like in gray. And then the bottom is in red tones, and it has, like – [laughs] – a woman essentially sort of like climbing along a man’s body.

Sarah: Yeah, she’s climbing him like a tree.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s pretty hot.

On page 8 is a letter from the editor, and I’ve mentioned this so many times. Would you please read this letter so that I can chortle?

Amanda: Holdin’ out for Half a Hero:

>> Yvonne Grapes asked –

[Laughs]

>> Yvonne Grapes asked why recently book covers tend to only show the lower half of the hero’s face.

This was from Mailbag, RT 297, November 2008.

Sarah: To give you a sense of the lead time, this is now March 2009, and this person’s answering a letter from November 2008.

Amanda: >> I’ve also noted that more and more cover heroes are shown from the neck down. No head at all! I believe the purpose is to let readers provide the hero with the face of their own fantasies and imagination. I think I like this trend. There’s nothing worse than a cover hero that doesn’t do it for you or that is not even close to the face you picture. Often he doesn’t even fit the author’s description.

This is from –

Sarah: [Chortles]

Amanda: – Karlee Vilirosi, via email.

Sarah: All right, I have two things to say about this. Number one, yes, very true. Obviously, the goal is to let you picture whoever you want. But the thing is, I don’t have pictures in my head. I don’t visualize anything in my head. I have no pictures. I have sounds? I hear, when I’m reading, I hear a voice, sometimes mine, reading the book. I don’t picture anything in my mind. I think that’s called aphantasia – I don’t know how to say it. It’s like…

Amanda: We talked about this in a previous RT, I think. [Laughs]

Sarah: Right! Like, I don’t picture anything in my mind. And I don’t picture what the characters look like. I picture other senses, like I have the sounds, or maybe like, what is the, what is the sound or what is the scent or anything like that? And if you, if you read my writing, if I’m writing fiction, I include a lot of sensory details because I don’t see shit in my brain. Like, I don’t see anything. To me, I don’t picture the face in the first place? So these covers all were like, here is a man. You, it can be any man. It’s sort of like, here is a body.

Amanda: A nondescript man.

Sarah: Here is a body. Here is some nipples and some abs. Nipples and abs. Here is, here’s some meat. And the covers never worked for me ‘cause I was like, This is so boring and they have no heads. But I understand the argument that it allows people to picture. As a person who doesn’t picture things, I was always like, Well, where did their heads go? Like, I’ve joked all the time about the support groups for all the heads where they’re like, I looked so good, and then they cut off my head! [Laughs]

Amanda: I think for me, one thing that, like, bugs me in general is when the characters are giving a defining characteristic, like, Oh, he’s got –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – a scar on his face or whatever, and that’s not reflected on the cover? I was like, These details are so integral to the characters and, like, what’s happening between them that I am annoyed that it’s not incorporated on the visual. That’s my only –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – like, gripe about how people…

Sarah: I completely agree. I mean, nothing makes it more clear that the goal of the cover is a sales tool to apply to as wide an audience as possible. Like, think about how there are no historical heroines wearing glasses until very recently, if at all. It, it’s this weird set of rules that I don’t think apply to anyone anymore, but they’re still in effect? If you’re not, if you have a character with specific facial details, then, you know, put them in the cover art!

I also wanted to bring up something that always annoys me when readers do this, and I apologize if this is you? I’m not talking about you. I’m not talking about you; it’s other people.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Kelly Roll writes:

>> I got your issue on thrillers last night after being on a four-day road trip.

This is December 2008.

>> I devoured it instead of going to bed, and I picked up a slew of new names. But I was disappointed to see –

Amanda: I read ahead, and I’m –

Sarah: >> – no mention of Lincoln Child and Douglas Preston. They write great thrillers, both together and separately. Your readers might like to keep them in mind too.

I do not like, Well, I was disappointed to see no mention of – look, you thought of somebody that’s not in the article. What if instead –

Amanda: Get these men out of here!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Get ‘em out! Preston and Child are really well known.

Sarah: Yeah, we don’t need to mention those, because, like –

Amanda: That’s why, like, I – oh my God. I didn’t know I was going to get so incensed.

Sarah: About men? Or that, I was disappointed to see…

Amanda: I’m always incensed about men. [Laughs]

Sarah: I mean, fair.

Amanda: But one thing that, like, with reading lists or whatever, it’s like, You didn’t mention these three bestselling authors who everybody and their fucking dog know already. It’s like, I’m sorry –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – I’m not going to waste list space telling you about Ali Hazelwood. You know she exists; you know her books.

Sarah: [Laughs] Yep!

Amanda: Sorry, I’m not – she’s in the zeitgeist. We, we know her! Move on!

Sarah: We, we are aware. Yeah. [Commenter’s voice] I was disappointed. How could you not mention? How could you leave off blah-blah-blah? First of all, lists are designed to create a kerfuffle. They are designed for people to go, What about, what about, what about? But I just hate the, I was disappointed that you didn’t mention. Were you actually, or do you just need to feel superior? Like, I don’t love this language because this is the opposite of Yes And, and it bugs me because it is condescending and it seems very like, Oh, I’m so disappointed. Okay, so write your own list!

Amanda: So something about this crop of letters fired several synapses in my brain. There are two letters here. One is called Klapping for Kleypas, and they’re talking about how the latest Kleypas release is going to be in hardcover and how they rarely buy hardcover books, but they love Kleypas so much that they’ll, they’ll do it. And then another person, their letter is ti-, titled Reading in the Recession? About ways to buy books if your, you know, if your wallet’s tight. They mention how they only use coupons or if there’s a forty percent discount if they want to buy a hardcover or a new release. They talk about using their library or online outlets, and you know, someone also mentions of, like, they use Goodwill to find new books. And I thought, How interesting.

Sarah: Extremely.

Amanda: Given our current book landscape –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – where things are getting hardcovers and special editions left and right, and we’ve talked several times about reading as an aesthetic and a luxury –

Sarah: Yes, we have!

Amanda: – with people with their bookshelves full of special edition hardcovers that retail for thirty to forty to fifty dollars apiece.

Sarah: For a book that you can’t read while you’re eating Doritos, I would like to add.

Amanda: And I think too – well, one, I have a question. Librarians, your expertise is needed. I would love to know, are younger romance readers making use of their library systems, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Like, I don’t, I don’t go to BookTok. We’ve, we’ve all discussed this.

[Laughter]

Amanda: I’m, I’m not –

Sarah: You know her thoughts on BookTok. We, we’ve been there.

Amanda: I don’t deal with BookTok. I just feel like Ron Swanson going into the hardware store of, I know more than you. I don’t need to be here.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But I rarely see BookTok talk about using public libraries.

Sarah: There –

Amanda: Like, romance readers.

Sarah: There is a BookToker who’s pretty prominent who talks about book, library cards that offer reciprocity or how to register for library cards in different places by using different addresses. Some of it is not great because it really takes advantage of library budgets?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But there’s also that link you put in the, that I sent you from Lynx that was all about –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – finding, finding library card, libraries with, near you with reciprocity and then places where you can buy an out-of-state library card.

Amanda: But I feel like –

Sarah: That’s a good question! Are –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – young readers using that?

Amanda: ‘Cause I don’t see BookTok necessarily talking about public library usage. I see, you know, a lot of special edition stuff. You know, Kickstarter has been super popular with special editions, and they’re raking in lots of money for those campaigns. And I do think older readers have had a different buying experience when it comes to romance, where, one –

Sarah: We definitely have.

Amanda: – you couldn’t find these things in a bookstore. Two –

Sarah: Oh no, indie, indies treated us like dirt for years!

Amanda: Yeah! Two, romance was seen as sort of like a throwaway genre, right? Like, they would just print them on mass markets and, and that’s it! And then three, you had the rise of, like, digital sales because we couldn’t get them in person, and a lot of romance readers read very quickly and read a lot. So –

Sarah: Ohhh yes.

Amanda: – if you’re reading five books in a, a week, buying in hardcover is not sustainable financially unless, unless you’re making that bank. So –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So I just think, like, also the, the generations of romance readers and their reading habits and their financial habits are so vastly different?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And I just think it’s, like, really interesting to see people talking about how they would never buy hardcover unless it’s for an author they really, really love?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And also sort of, you know, discussing ways to increase the affordability of books –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – and using their libraries, which it feels such a different conversation we’re having now about people producing a gazillion special editions –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – people campaigning for Kickstarter for special editions, special print runs, Target having an edition, Barnes and Noble having an edition, your –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – local indie having an edition, and each of them have different, like, back matter content to collect.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: Whatever!

Sarah: I told you about my friend’s daughter, who drove from bookstore to bookstore to get the extra copy of this book that she loves. She’s like, I’m going to read this chapter here, and then I’m going to go to Borders, and I’m going to read that one there, and I’m going to read this one over here. No, probably not Borders ‘cause Borders was gone, but, like, Barnes and Noble and whatever. Driving from bookstore to bookstore to just read it, ‘cause I’m not buying all these books! I just want to read the content.

Amanda: Yeah. So I just think it’s fascinating. I don’t, I’m thinking about, like, my own special edition collection.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And I don’t really have a lot. Like, I think I have a special collection of the Helen Hoang trilogy? I have that, but I also have them in paperback that are all –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – you know, beat up from being thrown in my purse all the time.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: But yeah, I just think it’s an interesting conversation and lens of, like, where we’re at with books. I –

Sarah: Yes, you’re so, you’re so right, especially comparing how we talk about book cost now versus how these people in these letters to the editor in 2009 are talking about reading in a recession. Like, we’re probably going to be in another recession if we aren’t already. What, what is the conversation like now? Because these folks, they had mass market paperback, which would keep the price of books overall a little lower. Now we have no floor set by mass market. The floor is set by trade paperback, and that can be, could be fourteen; now it’s probably closer to twenty! And then it’s only going to go up because everything else is so expensive. The idea of how to save money is a completely different conversation now. It is, it is a very interesting comparison. You’re so right!

Amanda: It’s so interesting with special editions having like the sprayed edges, sometimes, like, beautiful end papers, whatever. But I think there’s something also to be said and, you know, the rise of people buying mass market art these days too, of, like, paying six bucks for a mass market paperback and seeing that beautiful, like, stepback inside that you knew was like a wa-, like a hand-painted piece of art –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – that is now in a book, right? And you paid –

Sarah: Oh yeah! Historical –

Amanda: – six bucks –

Sarah: – and romance –

Amanda: – for it.

Sarah: Yes, and – or, or less if it was used. And the, the Reddit communities for romance are constantly showing people like, Look at these, look at these first edition mass markets I found! Like, first edition mass markets are now treasures for people. What a weird change that is!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Things are changing and it’s weird, man.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So page 10 is the article on Robin Schone, and the title is Love, Sex, and Divorce, which is a great title. Cry for Passion was her first full-length novel from Berkley, and it is again a sex club! And it’s actually an extension of a, of a world that she wrote for the Private Places anthology, which was released in August 2008. And it is a club where women and men discuss sexuality in the late 1880s, is based on historical fact. Hell yeah! I think you might like Robin Schone. It’s a – you’re going to know what I mean when I say this – it is an older style of writing? You don’t see this style as much in erotic romance right now? It’s sort of like when you introduce somebody who’s familiar with historical romance to The Windflower, and you have to be like, Okay, this is a very specific set of languages. Scandalous Lovers, though, you might really dig that, because Robin Schone writes some angsty shit.

Amanda: I did add it to my Goodreads. But also I mentioned that the new cover is very dark romance-coded.

Sarah: Oh, it really is! Look at – is that a – it’s an exploding –

Amanda: A carousel horse?

Sarah: Looks like it’s a porcelain –

Amanda: Horse.

Sarah: – carousel horse –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and it’s breaking, breaking apart.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s things exploding, which is a very popular trend. [Laughs]

PDF page 14: Full Steam Ahead: Steampunk Fantasy Moves into the Mainstream.

Amanda: That was –

Sarah: I remember the…

Amanda: – such a big blip.

Sarah: This was such a trend, and it went! And then it, then it disappeared.

Scott Westerfeld says in this article something that, I am still thinking about this. They’re all asking these authors, What the hell is steampunk?

>> Westerfeld explains that steampunk explores, “a species of nostalgia, looking back at a time when technology was more human scale and human knowable.”

And if you think about that quote, as compares right now to the force-feeding of AI in everything and how we’re told that AI is the future, this, this, this word-gurgitating, white supremacist water machine that has taken all of our words and is now spewing them back at us is an unknowable and inhuman technology. And here’s Scott Westerfeld talking about steampunk as an idea where tech was human scale and human knowable, because if you’re looking at steam engines, you know how that works, theoretically. It’s so interesting to me to hear these authors talk about technology from the vantage point of 2026. This is another situation where if you compare the magazine time to our time, the differences are really kind of stunning.

Amanda: Totally unrelated, but one of my favorite Key & Peele sketches is When Your Friend Goes Steampunk, and –

Sarah: [Laughs]What?!

Amanda: – and, like, they’re hanging out.- I think they’re, like, under a, like, a freeway trying to buy drugs? And Peele is, like, in this –

Sarah: I’ve never seen this, and I am going to –

Amanda: – steampunk outfit.

Sarah: I – okay, I am putting this in the document so that I remember to link to this. Hoooly shit; this is going to be so fucking funny.

Amanda: He’s like, I’m steampunk now. [Laughs] It’s so good!

Sarah: He really is, too! He’s got the top hat and the goggles and the – oh my.

Amanda: It gets bet- – it’s so good.

Sarah: Okay, I will link to it in the show notes. I’ve never seen this, and I’m going to enjoy that.

New Blood by Gail Dayton also appears in this. There’s a steampunk anthology; there’s a steampunk trilogy; there’s a couple of different books that are mentioned. If you have the complete issue, if you’re in the Patreon, you might like looking at this article, ‘cause it’s an interesting little time capsule.

And then on page 19, it’s Flavia! We’ve still got Flavia! Is this one of the latest issues we’ve seen with Flavia? It had to have been multiple writers, I swear.

Amanda: Yeah, I mean, we’ve done like, what, 2015? And I don’t remember –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – Flavia in those? But…

Sarah: I don’t remember her being in that one either.

So Flavia’s getting political here. This is 2009:

>> Darlings. I’ve become fascinated with survival stories lately –

She’s really in luck, ‘cause apocalypse is about to hit YA.

>> – what with all the economic fuss and collective belt-tightening going on. And lest you think moi has not been touched by the downturn, I’ll have you know we had to let several maids and a cook go at our primary manse, and the villa in Marienbad is on the market. The Count is heartbroken.

Yada-yada-yada. Here’s the interesting part:

>> In the world of books, as publishers consolidate and combine imprints – that’s a nice way of saying they’re laying people off, dear hearts – there’s concern about who will be left standing. I have a good feeling about romances, though. Traditionally, in hard times, people turn to escapist fare, and tales they know will end well. Voila, romance! And who knows, this might be a good time to separate the wheat from the chaff, as my dear grandmamma used to say. As long as publishers continue to nurture new talent and ideas –

Mm, sorry, Flavia.

>> – this may work well for the genre. After all, this is a time of change, and not all change is bad.

And then she goes on to talk about people, like, including the Philadelphia mayor, converting libraries into knowledge centers as they are shuttered and changed by budgetary cuts. A lot of euphemisms.

>> The mayor has his detractors who insist that no libraries should be closed.

Yes, that is correct. But Flavia wonders if outside financial help is willing to provide computer access and other community service with those in need.

>> But who will help provide this outside financial help, and where do the rest of us sign up for the aid?

Always the first thing to go is the library budget. It’s so frustrating? I’m shocked that she’s being so political commentary, ‘cause usually this is all very – I mean, this is the woman who gossiped about Danielle Steele’s matched luggage – [laughs] – and her, her matching convertibles. This is a, this is a big turn for Flavia. But yeah, I’m sorry to say this is happening again. We are also doing, in 2026, consolidations and downturns and layoffs.

Amanda: There’s another section in this one at the end where it talked –

Sarah: I’m so glad you’re talking about this?

Amanda: ‘Cause we like to test the links sometimes to see if –

Sarah: Oh yes, we do!

Amanda: So this mentions that –

>> Actress Teri Gault has begun a second career as a coupon lady! She’s not a –

Sarah: Oh, bless!

Amanda: >> She’s not a mad woman clipping the local circulars, though. Teri has a system and a website, TheGroceryGame.com, where you can read some tips for saving money, as well as sign up for her newsletter.

TheGroceryGame.com still exists, but it has nothing to do with coupons anymore. [Laughs] It is hopeful pandemic 2020 t-shirts.

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: So – yep! [Laughs]

Sarah: TheGroceryGame.com.

Amanda: Yep. Yes.

Sarah: Unite2020pandemic.com. Oh God. Oh boy. The word pandemic –

Amanda: And PANDEMIC is an acronym.

Sarah: – is broken into an acrostic.

Amanda: [Laughs] Yep.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: And, and what is that acrostic?

Sarah: Pray All Nations Discover Every Miraculous Intervention and Cure. Oh boy. Oh girl. Oh –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – boy.

Amanda: And this, this is run by Teri Gault. I double-checked. This is –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – this is her project!

Sarah: All right, then. Well, she’s moved on to, from groceries to acrostics and t-shirts. Okay! Wow.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: It’s rare that we, it’s rare that we find a website that’s still in business, though. Like, that’s, that’s rare.

Amanda: Yeah. What an interesting pivot.

Sarah: Such a pivot.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: On page 23, there is letter from Anonymous, and oh my God, the response is so bitchy. Would you like to read Anonymous’s letter, or would you like to read the reply?

Amanda: I’ll read the letter.

Sarah: Okay, I’ll read the reply.

Amanda: it’s titled Woodiwiss Everlasting.

>> Dear RT Book Reviews, I have all of Kathleen Woodiwiss’s books. I’ve been reading each one, and I’m not finished yet, but she is the best historical romance writer I have ever read in a very long time. I know that she has a new –

Sarah: I just want to remind everybody it’s 2009. [Laughs]

Amanda: >> I know that she has a new book coming out called Everlasting and will be glad to read it. I do hope she will continue to write many more historicals. Anonymous, via email.

Sarah: Okay. This is so funny. I feel bad for laughing! Okay, here we go:

>> Ah, you must be a newbie to the romance world, so welcome to the fold.

Amanda: [Laughs] You must be new here.

Sarah: Yeah.

>> And longtime romance readers, we assure you that this is an actual letter we received. The new –

Amanda: Oof.

Sarah: >> – Kathleen E. Woodiwiss title Everlasting that you referred to is really the paperback version of a hardcover book that was released in 2007. It was also Woodiwiss’s final novel. The groundbreaking novelist who rocketed to the bestseller lists in 1972 with the publication of The Flame and the Flower and is credited with launching the modern historical romance novel died in two thou- –

Oh boy.

>> – died in 2007 after a long illness at the age of sixty-eight. All total, she published thirteen novels in her career. A tribute to Woodiwiss and her legacy from the friends, fans, and colleagues she, she influenced appeared in the October 2007 issue of RT. You can read up on her at her website, KathleenEWoodiwiss.com.

This is such a bitchy reply! [Laughs] It’s so funny! Oh my God!

Amanda: They’re just like, You uneducated rube. Like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – How dare you?

Sarah: It’s like that James Franco GIF, First time? Oh my God. Like, you didn’t have to run this; you didn’t have to do any of this! Like –

Amanda: You could have messaged them privately.

Sarah: Oh, no, no, no. Boy, oh boy. There you go!

Amanda: It’s like, Get a load of this fucking idiot over here. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes! That’s exactly! Like, Readers, we assure you this is real. This person is a real bozo. Oh Jesus Lord, here we go.

And then on page 24, we have Web Browser by Stephanie Klose, and there is so much to talk about on this page!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So, first, going back to what you just said about getting books on a budget, there is a section here called Share the Book Love. Sharing your books is an excellent way to stretch your budget, and they recommend four, five! Five websites! Bookswim.com is an online rental with monthly fees. AmericasBookshelf.com bills itself as the first full-service internet book club with a twelve-dollar annual fee and purchase credits at three-fifty each. There’s bookmooch.com and paperbackswap.com.

Amanda: I forgot Paperback Swap existed. I used to use it!

Sarah: Oh yeah?

Amanda: It was so cool.

Sarah: I did too. It was so – and, and you could use media mail, which meant your postage costs were like thirty-five cents. Media mail is still really cheap.

Amanda: For those who are unfamiliar, Paperback Swap is exactly what the name suggests: it is –

Sarah: Does what it says on the tin.

Amanda: Yeah! You send paperbacks to people who request them, and then you get points for fulfilling those requests, which then you can use to request paperbacks for yourself that people then send to you!

Sarah: It was basically a big book co-op; it was very smart.

Amanda: It’s very cool. It still exists!

Sarah: And then there’s –

Amanda: I’m assuming it runs kind of the same way? But yeah –

Sarah: Hell yeah.

Amanda: – it’s still around.

Sarah: And then there’s booksfree.com. And I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before, but Books Free was fundamental to the establishment of Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, because that’s where I was getting all my romance novels when we started the site. I used to call it Books Not Free, because they were not free.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It was a rental service. And if I remember correctly, there was Bronze, Silver, and Gold, and whichever level you subscribed at was however many books you could have checked out at a time. But they would send them to you in little plastic mailers with an extra mailer to send them back? And you could request all these paperbacks. They had a ton of romance, and so when we started Smart Bitches, I was reviewing books that I had gotten from what we called booksnotfree.com. So to see it mentioned in this magazine in 2009 is hilarious to me.

On page 26, there’s a whole article about vampires and how they’re evolving. And on page 27, there’s a quiz!

Amanda: I tried to take the quiz. I’m only familiar with one of these vampires, so.

Sarah: Which one? Bill?

Amanda: Bill Compton, yeah!

Sarah: Bill, yeah? One of them is Vayl, which is from Jennifer Rardin’s Jaz Parks series. Jaz Parks book one was one of the, one of the earliest books I read that I was sent by a publisher? And there are so many elements to that series that I still remember. And I don’t remember bupkis about books that I read; it is a problem. This is probably why I have a website where I review them, so I try to remember them more? But Jaz Parks had contact lenses that if she shut her eyes really hard and opened them, it would activate night vision. And I was like, that’s so cool! And I still remember that so many decades later, that that was one of those, the vampire’s really old and he has a human sidekick, and he’s, like, super obsessed with her and refuses to acknowledge or even, like, deal with it. And she’s like, He’s so weird, and he’s like, I cannot fuck her; I cannot kiss her. Cannot, cannot, cannot!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: There was angst. It was – mwah! – it was hot.

And then on page 29, I mentioned this in the, in the reviews episode: The Lords of the Satyr with the Seeker. If you look at those covers, these men are naked.

Amanda: Yeah, with just, like –

Sarah: These men are bare-assed.

Amanda: – carefully placed strip of fabric, and sometimes not even any fabric!

Sarah: Yeah, that’s one leg; that’s a flank and a hand. That’s all we got here. Those covers, right? Naked-ass men. [Laughs]

On page 35 is a whole article about Sophia Nash’s book Love with the Perfect Scoundrel. And I was like, Oh, that’s interesting, and then I look at the picture, and all I wrote in our document is Amanda.

Amanda: And then –

[Laughter]

Amanda: And then my comment was, Tom Brady, is that you?

Sarah: [Still laughing] Right in the middle! It’s Tom Brady!

Amanda: What are you doing in my magazine?

[Laughter]

Sarah: It’s a perfume ad, and I think this story references that she was – oh, it was a –

>> It was a photo of New England Patriots football star Tom Brady that helped Sophia Nash’s story come alive.

I’m assuming it’s this Stetson perfume ad where he’s shirtless inside a gigantic shearling coat –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and there’s a woman leaning on him – [laughs] – leaning on his shoulder, and her hat is crooked like she’s hiding from the press.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Surprise Tom Brady I did not expect!

Amanda: I mean, I did not either. That’s why I was like, for a second I stared at his face. I was like, Is that Tom Brady?

Sarah: [Laughs] Surprise! I think it is!

Amanda: And, like, you know, younger, younger Tom Brady than I’ve seen in recent years, so.

Sarah: And then on page 36, I am going to be egotistical for a moment, okay?

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: I think this article is about me. I think this article is in response to me.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: And this is Beth Ciotta and Stephanie Bond, and I just also want to say Beth Ciotta is one of the greatest people at RT. She would regularly host the Mr. Romance Conference or the Pageant, the Man-geant. She worked in Atlantic City and I think may have also worked in Vegas. She is a really great theater person, she is good at hosting stuff, but there’s this article!

>> Hi, everyone, Beth Ciotta here. While cruising the internet one day, I came across a blog post that gave me chills. It noted that contemporary romances, those not involving some sort of paranormal element or edge-of-your-seat suspense, are a rarity. That fewer readers want to read straight contemporaries, and the subgenre is a dying breed.

>> This was news to me, disturbing news. A, because I love to read contemporaries, and, B, because I write them! I told myself not to panic. Everything goes in cycles. A few years ago, paranormal romance was an endangered species, and look at it now! Weren’t historicals passé? And now they’re back in vogue.

>> And then I thought, wait a minute, I don’t feel like I’m withering on the vine. I hear from enthusiastic readers all the time!

I am somewhat certain that this is a response to the campaign that I did with Jane from Dear Author called Save the Contemporary. Our first Save the Contemporary was October 2008, and if you look at the timeline of the letters that they mention, the letters that people are responding to – like, I’m writing about your November 2008 issue; I’m writing about your October 2008 issue – so the timeline fits. Our first Save the Contemporary was October 2008, and I think this article is a response to Save the Contemporary. I’m so fucking tickled!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Also, I just want to be clear, that campaign was success, a very big success: contemporary is fine.

Amanda: Yeah. It’ll all be fine, everybody.

Sarah: But this was also before I understood what a slug was, so, like, the actual URL is some garbage title? Our first Save the Contemporary title was Flat-Out Sexy by Erin McCarthy –

Amanda: Oh, those books!

Sarah: – and this is the first line, October 20th, 2008.

>> Jane has mentioned before that the contemporary romances that don’t feature vampires, campy vampires, werewolves, immortal peril, mortal peril, suspense out the wahoo, and extraordinary, extraterrestrial, extraneous circumstances seem to be fewer and far between.

This is absolutely in response! First of all, name your source. Give us the plug in this magazine from 2009. Number two, I am so tickled by this! Like, I read this and I’m like, Wait a minute!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Is she talking about Save the Contemporary? Which by the way was a very big campaign. It ran for like a year and a half, and we’d pick a different book, we’d do a giveaway. We’d get the publisher to give us copies of the book, and they’d be like, You want ten copies? Twenty? Here you go. They send them to us, we send them out, or we send them the address. It was a really big campaign back in the early days when publishers were starting to work with blogs. So yeah.

Amanda: Could that, could that be revitalized? I don’t know! Could we do that with historical?

Sarah: Hmmm! That’s a good question! I’m going to have to ponder that. Save the Historical.

Amanda: ‘Cause, I mean, publishing is obviously in a different place now, but –

Sarah: Yeah, we’re not getting prizes from them. We gave away, like, prizes like, do you remember when you had a separate device to take video? Like a flip video –

Amanda: [Laughs] No.

Sarah: Yeah, there was a, separate from your phone, you had a separate video device that you would carry to make short videos.

Amanda: I remember digital cameras.

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. This is digital camera era when the phone, the photos on your phone were ass and you had to have a whole-ass separate camera? I used to walk around conferences with like five devices.

Maybe we could Save the Historical. I’m going to have to think about that. That could be fun.

Amanda: Just a thought! Like, you know.

Sarah: Would there be articles about it that don’t mention us? Hmm! Now, Beth, if, in the, in the off chance, Beth, that you listen to this show, I’m just giving you shit. You know that I think you’re great, but this is very funny to me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And it’s this whole article that’s a conversation between Stephanie Bond and Beth Ciotta about contemporaries and what they do and what they are. And okay, so we’re not the current hot trend, we’re not the talk of the industry or the blogosphere (you just said it was from a blog post), but we do have staying power. Yes! And as I have said, genres don’t die, they evolve. And contemporary romance evolved. So yes. I just, thank you for allowing me to be an egotistical giant for just a moment.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: [Clears throat] Okay, moving on. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, and now for something vastly different.

Sarah: Completely different!

Amanda: On page 39, there’s a bunch of, like, clip art of, like, junk food, like a sundae and a cake and, like, a bag of chips and some soda. And there’s a clip art of a hot dog. We’ve talked about my love of hot dogs in general, as noted here, my little hot dog shrine. This hot dog has a little urethra, and I don’t like it. So.

[Laughter]

Amanda: It makes me very uncomfortable looking at this hot dog. This is one of the most phallic-looking hot dogs I’ve ever seen in my life.

Sarah: Also, I want to point out that that bottle says pop? What do you say, soda or pop?

Amanda: Soda. I’m not a crazy person. [Laughs]

Sarah: I am from a place that says pop. Pittsburgh is a pop. You want a pop?

Amanda: [Laughs] I’m a normal human being who –

Sarah: Oh, bite me.

Amanda: – grew up on Earth?

Sarah: All right, first of all, you’re going to start a war, because most of the center Midwest is a pop country. So you’re going to start –

Amanda: [Laughs] I know.

Sarah: – a war with all of our Midwestern readers. They’re going to be like, Bitch, we’re coming for you about this pop shit.

Amanda: And it’s me rage-baiting, Sarah. I’m getting engagement.

Sarah: Oh, I can tell! I can tell. You’re getting engagement and yelling.

Amanda: [Laughs] What are you going to do –

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: – pelt me with casseroles? Fine!

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: Let’s go!

Sarah: Yes, a hot, hot dish is coming –

Amanda: A hot dish.

Sarah: – for your ass. You better –

Amanda: A lava-hot dish! [Laughs]

Sarah: The, Goddamn right! You better run.

Amanda: Third-degree burns from your Tater Tot hot dish.

Sarah: Damn right. I could totally go for some Tater Tots, holy shit! [Laughs]

Amanda: That’s, it’s so good. [Laughs] I’m not above a hot dish, let me be very clear.

Sarah: Mm!

Amanda: Anyway, this hot dog looks narsty. So let’s –

Sarah: It is, it is not a good clip art. No, it is it is not good clip art. But you can tell, like, this is a very specific era of clip art. Like, you buy a big book of it and you just use it in your publications; you tape it into place. Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then on page 43, this was back in the era when RT was doing American Title, which was their American Idol spin-off, where people would send in chapters, and three judges, one of whom was always Flavia Knightsbridge, Enigmatic Socialite, with a picture of, like, a clip art of a woman with her hat pulled down.

Amanda: A real Carmen Sandiego-esque portrait.

Sarah: Yes. And there is a woman who is in the contest, Words of Wisdom from Theresa Meyers, American Title II contestant.

>> When I was eliminated in round two, I nearly gave up writing.

Amanda: Oof!

Sarah: >> After all, I’d been at it seriously for over ten years. My resolve lasted thirty minutes. I considered how I’d manage the stories constantly popping up in my head and realized I had to keep writing and continue sending it out. I sold my historical that finaled in the contest to a small publisher just a few months after American Title II ended. I was ecstatic! But the publisher filed bankruptcy three weeks before my book’s release date.

Amanda: Oof.

Sarah: >> Two years and a new agent later, I have sold again, this time to Silhouette Nocturne. My Nocturne Bite, Salvation of the Damned, comes out this month at eHarlequin.com. My advice: every time a door closes, forget looking for the window, look for a bigger door.

Fuck yeah, Teresa! You stay winning.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And then on page 46, we’re going to go back to a very specific period of time. There’s a little mention here about Dara Joy. And I’m – hi, Wilbur – I am going to attempt to read this without laughing my ass off. [Clears throat] There are two, actually two pieces of this thing, and this is where – yes, I know – this is where I went down a big fucking rabbit hole, so bear with me here.

Amanda: ‘Kay.

Sarah: >> Christmas came a little late for fans of Dara Joy. They learned just after the holiday that Joy was releasing a new “full-length novel” in eBook format. The pirate tale, Taste of the Devil, is available from the author’s website, OfficialDaraJoy.com, and costs $10.50.

I did put a link to Taste of the Devil on Goodreads, and the cover is really something. Dara Joy’s covers –

Amanda: I mean – yeah, it’s like Dara Joy’s covers –

Sarah: – whoo!

Amanda: – in general are a league of their own, let’s say.

Sarah: They really are. I will put some of these in the video, like my personal favorite, That Familiar Touch, ‘cause I don’t know what’s going on with that hair.

>> This is not the author’s first foray into eBooks.

This is a real book, by the way.

>> She previously released the title Death by Ploot Ploot in the same format.

Death by Ploot Ploot has a 3.65 average on Goodreads. The cover is, unfortunately, somewhat normal, but it is called Death by Ploot Ploot. Dara Joy is a gift to the genre, and I will die on this hill because I get to say the words Ploot Ploot.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: M’kay. Now, are you ready for the rabbit hole?

Amanda: Oh boy, okay.

Sarah: Okay.

>> The Hollywood trade magazine Variety reported recently that the production company New Regency has acquired the rights to a film about a man who enters the Mr. Romance pageant to win back the woman he loves. The script will be based on an article about RT’s Mr. Romance competition that ran in GQ, a popular men’s magazine. No word if former Mr. Romance contestants or even RT convention goers will be asked to participate.

So, to quote the aunt character in Pride and Prejudice, this savors strongly of bitterness.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Y’all sound bitter. Like, you don’t even mention the author, and I’m like, Excuse me, there was a GQ article? Amanda, I was five seconds away from buying a bulk lot of GQ magazines –

Amanda: [Laughs] Oh no!

Sarah: – on eBay from 2009 –

Amanda: [Laughs more]

Sarah: – to find this article. But then I found it. Okay.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: So, Variety, in fact, did report in 2008 –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that:

>> New Regency acquired Mr. Romance, a pitch for a comedy that will be directed by Four Christmases director Seth Gordon. Jeff Roda will pen the script. Regency acquired the rights to a Joshuah Bearman article commissioned by GQ magazine.

This is where I was like, well, shit, now I’m going to have to buy a pile of GQ magazines and find it. No. GQ commissioned it – hang on just a moment and I’m going to pull it up. ‘Cause I downloaded the PDF, and if you are in the Patreon, because I found the PDF on the Internet Archive and I don’t know if it’s actually, like, meant to be public, I will put the PDF on Patreon if you would like to see it.

But Mr. Romance by Joshuah Bearman – I hope I’m saying that right – was published in the Panorama Book Review, and it is many, many pages. There are many pictures of the cover models, including CJ Hollenbach. If you’ve ever been to RT, there was one cover model who had long blond hair all the way down to his waist; that’s CJ. There are women, authors posing with him with their legs hooked around his flank. There are pictures of authors and fans, like, freaking out to meet all of the cover models. This was a seriously embedded article by, by Mr. Bearman.

Joshuah Bearman is the one who wrote Argo, the article that became the film optioned by George Clooney. So this guy has connections already.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And at one point, he talks about how former Mr. Romance Mark Johnson sings a song from “A Story from My Heart, The Only Muscle I Can’t Control.” Now, Mark Johnson talked a lot about his heart attack and how it helped him find God and find Jesus. But Joshuah Bearman’s article is “The Only Muscle I Can’t Control: In Search of the Next Romance Novel Cover Man.” So Joshuah Bearman just straight up took this guy’s song title and made it the title of his article, and then that article was optioned by New Regency. Like, holy shit.

I think, I suspect very heavily, that this article and the resulting optioning pissed Kathryn off bad, because that is the only mention of it. And you know that any other time someone was mentioning the romance convention, the romance magazine, Mr. Romance, you know Kathryn was all over that. Like, they talk about Mr. Romance in every issue, right?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The fact that this has one paragraph on page 44 of the magazine says to me that she was pissed! And it’s very interesting; I don’t know if at that time Mr. Romance was a trademarked or proprietary term. Perhaps not.

This project did not get off the ground; this movie was not made. But like I said, I have the article. I will share it on the Patreon. It is many pages in small type, and it goes in depth into the Mr. Romance pageant, what it’s like, what the contestants are doing, what the voting is like.

And then – [laughs] – sprinkled in and around the article are little poems and haikus. So
there’s poetry inter-, interjected into the magazine article. It is wild. So that was the rabbit hole I went down. I honestly thought that I was going to have to buy a fucking stack of GQ magazines to find this –

Amanda: You got out of it.

Sarah: – and then I found it.

Amanda: You sleuthed it!

Editing Sarah: Hello, this is Editing Sarah. I’m in the process of editing this episode, and I have spent some time with this article. And I just want to also say that I think one of the reasons that Kathryn was pissed was justifiable, because later on in this article, it gets so incredibly condescending. Like, I’m going to read you a paragraph and you’ll, it’ll piss you off! But when we started recording, I had just found the article the night before, and it’s many, many pages. I hadn’t read all of it, so to my detriment, I was talking about it. Here’s a paragraph:

>> Foreign contingents aside, the clichés about romance readers appear to be true. They tend to be middle-aged ladies from the South and Midwest. There is a tremendous preponderance of floral print, bangs, paunch-concealing blazers, puffy-painted and/or bedazzled sweatshirts, and QVC jewelry. But I will also say this: everyone here is unfailingly kind. They may be lumberjack fantasy devotees on an extended raunchy weekend, but they are still heartland mothers, instinctively warm and friendly, and they make all visitors feel instantly welcome.

Yeah, I can understand why Kathryn was pissed. Whoo! Like I said, I will be putting this up on the Patreon, and I’m sure you will have many, many colorful things to say. Now back to the episode.

Sarah: I found it thanks to Wikipedia linking to the title, and then finding, searching the title and finding it on the web archive. Thank you, Internet Archive, for saving my bacon.

So yeah, I think – this is conjecture, I am reading into the situation, but I think they were pissed that this got optioned.

Amanda: Yeah, I –

Sarah: I would be pissed too; I get it.

Amanda: I would go along with that hypothesis.

Sarah: I, I, I get it; I’d be pissed too.

What are we looking at next, madam?

Amanda: Oh yeah, we talked about this earlier in the episode, ’cause there was a full-page ad.

Sarah: Same author.

Amanda: No, different author! I think it was, like, Nicole Jordan? Was that the one that –

Sarah: Oh, you’re right. They’re using the same font, which trips me up, yes.

Amanda: [Laughs] This is for a Liz Carlyle book called Tempted All Night, and it’s got a woman, her face is sort of like half on the cover, and she’s wearing this white off-the-shoulder dress that’s bunched up at her knees, and she’s, like, caressing her calf –

Sarah: [Snorts]

Amanda: – and I’m like, This looks like a shaving cream ad. ‘Cause always in a shaving ad, they, like, run their fingers up their leg. Their –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – freshly shaved, smooth, baby dolphin leg.

Sarah: [Laughs] Baby dolphin.

Amanda: And that’s what it reminds me of. Like, this looks like a shaving cream ad to me. That’s it.

Sarah: It really does. And, like –

Amanda: [Laughs] That’s my only observation.

Sarah: And, and like the Nicole Jordan page? Leg. Knee.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Back, back, shoulder. Now we’ve got legs.

Amanda: See, Sarah goes on deep dives, and I talk about how hot dogs look like penises and how this woman looks like she’s from a, a Venus shaving cream ad, so.

Sarah: We are a full-service operation here. And if you’re watching the video, I have to give Wilbur some treats, for he has wakened –

Amanda: Ohhh.

Sarah: – and he is demanding his cat treats. So I will be doing that. Now, I have to hide them in a blankie. So if you want to –

Amanda: Sarah’s braver than I, like, letting her cat in while she records.

Sarah: If I didn’t, he would just sit outside the door and, and yodel.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, I really don’t have a choice here. So if you want a cheap game to play with your cats, scrunch up a blanket and then hide treats inside the blanket. It’s called blankie game, and he – everyone tells me orange cats are not smart. I think he’s very smart.

Wilbur: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, that’s right! You’re very smart!

Amanda: Our orange cat is not very smart.

Sarah: Are you a smart boy? Very smart. Very smart.

Amanda: There were all, like – Toast is very sensitive and is also very sensitive to, like, sounds, changes in his environment. He’s a very sensitive, particular cat. And he is the reason why I googled can cats have autism?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Science says no. I don’t believe that.

Sarah: [Wheeze-laughs] Can cats have autism? Oh my God.

Amanda: He’s just so sensitive and very –

Sarah: I’m crying!

Amanda: – particular about his environment! And so – [laughs]

Sarah: Listen, there can – yeah, okay! Sure! Oh my God, that’s so funny. Hmm.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: I disagree that science says no, but –

Sarah: Hey, Wilbur, you got the ‘Tism? Yep. Okay! Good to know. That’s fine. Half the people in this house do too.

All right, 81. This is so interesting to me. So again, March 2009, on page 79 of the magazine, 81 of the PDF, there is an ad for HarperCollins eBooks.

>> Instant romantic gratification! Download books by your favorite romance authors for 20% off the print book price from HarperCollinsEbooks.com.

This is fascinating. So twenty percent off the print book price. We’re talking about mass market paperbacks, so say the mass market is $7.99? Twenty percent off is what, a buck fifty?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So we’re already talking about a small discount, but they’re really trying to make eBooks happen for themselves. And it’s really interesting because in this time period, a lot of the publishers had their own storefronts. I saw an ad earlier for eHarlequin. Harlequin, I think, does still have a storefront, but you to use their proprietary eReader? I don’t think a lot of publishers have their own storefronts anymore, but at this point they were all trying to be retailers, especially for eBooks.

Amanda: I’m curious how much they were charging at this time to get the eBook.

Sarah: Then on page 121 –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – my comment here is Boobs.

Amanda: They’re just checking to make sure they’re still there. That’s all.

Sarah: There are one, two, three covers where a woman is holding on to her bazooms –

Amanda: I could never.

Sarah: – and just, just holding them in place, maybe, maybe giving a little breast exam. But there were so many covers where the woman was mostly naked or topless, and her hands were over her boobs? And if I am remembering correctly – people who know better, please correct me – at some point, retailers like Amazon started flagging these covers and refusing to publish them because of the degree of nudity. And I remember doing an interview with Michelle Pillow, who was also a designer, that she would have to airbrush out ass crack so that the covers would get through to Amazon’s retailer platform and not be flagged.

Meanwhile, next to Her Dakota Men by Leah Brooke, which is I’m giving myself a, a breast exam, I’m topless in a field, and there are some cowboys behind me, we have Sex Party (Cowboy Sex #1) –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and there are some –

Amanda: It’s a little redundant, Sex Party, Cowboy Sex. They should just call it Cowboy Sex Party.

Sarah: Cowboy Sex Party! Would you, would you not buy a book called Cowboy Sex Party? I friggin’ would.

Amanda: I mean, that’s the Lor-, that’s the Lorelei James series right there.

Sarah: Cowboy Sex Party! So here is the cover, which –

Amanda: Oh no.

Sarah: Oh no, oh no. Here we go.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: This is a woman –

Amanda: Ugh!

Sarah: So in the background are three cowboys, none of whom were present for the original photograph; they have all been pasted in. They’re all standing there with their hands on their waists and their belt buckles. Two of them are shirtless. This is really bad cut-and-paste. And then there’s this woman who is tangled in her shirt. She looks to be trapped.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: She is naked except for a white thong. But she is standing in – I’m going to try to say this in a family-friendly manner – she is standing in such a way that she has arched her lower back so that you can see the entire posterior view of not only the thong, but the front part of the thong is peeking out from underneath. So I –

Amanda: She’s doing what Tyra Banks calls a booty tooch. If you –

Sarah: She is totally doing that, and I really think that if she turned to the side, she would be L-shaped.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, her booty would be out front because you can see the front of her thong from the back.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s a very weird cover. Siren Publishing had some – I think they really just searched for porn clip art and then just put it on the covers. Like, that was how this was made.

Amanda: Slap it on there.

Sarah: That’s right!

Then we get to the conference. April 22nd through the 26th in Orlando, Florida. I see the picture of the hotel; that is absolutely the hotel where people got their credit cards stolen, and I mean a lot of people got their credit card numbers stolen. The –

Amanda: Welcome to Florida!

Sarah: [Snorts] This was such a good lineup of sessions. Like, you had sessions on anime, suspense, So You Think You’ve Read Some Wallbangers! There’s an author chat with L. A. Banks, may she rest; Catherine Asaro; and Piers Anthony! And there is a section on psychics and psychic secrets.

And then there is a panel, on page 127: Blogging: Everything You Wanted to Know, But Were Afraid to Ask, hosted by me and Jane. There were not a lot of questions; people just wanted to know How do I get reviewed on your website? Like, that was the question.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This was a time when everyone, all authors were being told to start a blog, and I think what I wanted to say in this panel was: You do not have to start a blog if you’re not going to be able to keep up with it. If you are writing books, then writing blog entries weekly or daily is really a lot to ask of you, and you do not have to do it. There are other ways to communicate with your readers that – but publishers were like, Do the blog; you should have a blog. Publishers had blogs. They expected authors to have blogs. It’s like now when publishers expect authors to have an audience already built in. I think sales calls it like onboard publicity or ready publicity. Like, this, this author already has an audience. This was part of building your presence online and having a website, and you were expected to have a blog. You don’t need to have a blog.

I mean, you can have one now if you want! It’s called a Substack, but I don’t recommend Substack.

Amanda: Also, can I just say, looking at the sheer amount –

Sarah: Oh, there’s so much!

Amanda: – of programming. So much programming. There’s four blocks, and each block has – one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten – a dozen different options to choose from to attend.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: It just makes me so irritated –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – at the scraps that book events throw readers now in terms of panels.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: Or sometimes it’s just like one big signing, which, like, sure, fine, if you’re only after to get your book signed, but, like, I don’t care about that stuff. Even when they did the signing at the end of RT, that was sort of, you know, fine to go, but it’s not what I went for.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amanda: But yeah, the sheer amount of programming, the diversity of programming, depending on –

Sarah: Oh my God.

Amanda: – if you were an author, what kind of genres you read.

Sarah: So much craft. Look at all of these craft panels.

Amanda: Just so much programming.

Sarah: And some of these panels were really just to go hear that author speak. Like, if you were going to a panel with, like, Richelle Mead and Caitlin Kittredge and Melissa Marr and Rachel Vincent, you were going to see these big-name authors talk, but they were also talking about YA taking urban fantasy by storm. Like, this was craft, and this was trends, and this was how to write. Like, it, this was such a – forgive me – beefy conference.

Amanda: Yeah, we’ve strayed so far from God’s light.

Sarah: [Laughs] This is not to say that all of these panels were good. Some of them were not good at all. Some of them were not planned; people wouldn’t prepare. They would just show up and say things, and it was more about being in the room with that author.

But yeah, look at all the craft opportunities. How to Write a Mystery: It’s Not Really a Mystery At All. Paranormal. Booksellers. Like, oh my gosh, so many tracks for people who had interest in that particular genre. Every, every subgenre had its own track. Incredible.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: My sympathies, my sympathies to their programming committee, because Geeze Louise.

Amanda: Yeah, so much –

Sarah: Also, I just wanted you to look at the bottom of PDF page 127, Wednesday and Thursday Happenings and Events. Could you just tell me what’s happening on Thursday at 8:30 a.m.?

Amanda: Mystery Chix & Private Dix Morning Mixer. What does that mean? Oh, wait, no! Like a dick in, like, a mystery, like a private eye!

Sarah: Yeah! But it’s mystery chix and private dix, both with an X!

Amanda: Good for them!

Sarah: Love it.

Amanda: Look, can’t be mad at it. At 8:30? Sure!

Sarah: Those were the ones where there might be some food, and it meant that all of those authors or that publisher were paying for food for everybody, and that was very, very costly. So whoever the mystery chix and the private dix mor-, morning mixer, that was probably like a continental breakfast. So I’m sure it was well attended, and there were probably free books everywhere. But mystery chix and private dix.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: On page 129 in the conference section, there is a mention of the Cover Model Reunion Reception, which was available for a seventy-five-dollar fee; it was extra. And Mr. John DeSalvo was there! I’m sorry that I did not pay. Past Sarah should have forked over –

Amanda: Ohhh.

Sarah: – that seventy-five dollars just to introduce herself to John DeSalvo, because, as you know, he is with me every day. There he is.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Look! I even got a light for him. Look at that; he has his own lamp.

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: John DeSalvo looks over me every day, right there, with his pecs. I should have gone to that session so that I could have said hello and, and said, you know, Someday your, your boobs will hang over me every day that I work.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And the, the inside back cover and the back cover are kind of boring. The back cover is Sunset Bay by Susan Mallery. It’s a sunset, it’s a book, there’s no pictures. But in –

Amanda: There’s a bay. [Laughs]

Sarah: There’s a bay! But on the inside cover is Brenda Joyce’s Dark Victory. Why did they use a blurry photograph of this guy with a cape and a sword?

Amanda: I wonder if the photo they sent in was just so low quality.

Sarah: And I mean, what’s going on under his arm where he has like a goiter?

Amanda: I think he’s wearing, like –

Sarah: Like, it’s bulging out?

Amanda: He’s wearing like a tan shirt, like a tan tank top.

Sarah: Oh! Oh, and it’s cutting into – okay.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It looks like a goiter. Why is it blurry? It’s so blurry!

Amanda: I don’t know. [Sighs]

Sarah: I don’t know either.

Amanda: That’s also a huge sword.

Sarah: Oh, and just as an added bonus, because when I cut the magazine open to scan it, the card to subscribe falls out, so I added it to the end. If you’re curious, a one-year subscription of twelve issues was $34.95; two years, twenty-four issues was $64.90. And to be honest with you, that is a good fucking deal for the size of this magazine. The-, these things are – the PDF is 132 pages, including the cover and the back cover. So this is a big magazine, reviewing every book that came out.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Imagine how big the magazine would be if we were reviewing every book that came out now. Like, every month would be like the New York City phone book.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: So what did you think of the March 2009 issue? I, I, I kind of think this one was a banger.

Amanda: This is a good one.

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: This is a really –

Sarah: ‘Cause it’s –

Amanda: Definitely top five.

Sarah: Oh, for sure. And not, not in terms of, like, the cover and the art. Just the content, the books that were coming out.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The, the books that are in this magazine that are still trucking along today, that they are still in print, or they’re the end of the series that started this month, or there’s books that were, like, groundbreaking.

Amanda: Yeah, ones that we were like –

Sarah: This, this one –

Amanda: – Oh my God, this was so good. Remember this –

Sarah: Yes! And the –

Amanda: – fondly or whatever.

Sarah: This is one of the first times we’ve R, we’ve recapped an RT where the Erotica section had us both, like, ready to go. Like, we were super excited about the erotic –

Amanda: So, yeah, best section, I think, was the Erotica section.

Sarah: Oh! Hands down, best section of the magazine.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Well, thank you. I’m curious to know which one from this magazine you end up reading first, now that you’ve added them all to your Goodreads.

Amanda: Oh my God. I, well, I talked about this in Whatcha Reading of like two weekends ago? Read three books in a weekend. Not –

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: – none of them were very good. Brian need, Brian has learned that just because I read a book in three hours doesn’t mean it was a good book. It just means that I’m a fast reader and a woman on a mission.

Sarah: Yeah. [Laughs] I started it, I’m going to finish it.

Amanda: Going to finish it. But then I haven’t read anything in like two weeks, ‘cause I’m like, whatever.

Sarah: Ohhh, yikes!

Amanda: [Laughs] The mood comes and goes very quickly –

Sarah: It comes and goes.

Amanda: – these days. So.

Sarah: It really does. Yep.

Amanda: [Giggles]

Sarah: And, you know, pregnancy hormones will make you crave the weirdest things, including in your reading.

Amanda: Okay. Well, right now I’m just vacillating between dark romance and Why Choose. That, those are the two rock and a hard place I’m, I’m in the middle of right now. So.

Sarah: Well, this erotica section is ready to help you.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I mean, your memory is so good, I know you don’t reread, but maybe you should go revisit some of these older titles.

Amanda: I kind of want to revisit Desire Unchained. That’s the one I’m really –

Sarah: Fuck yeah!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Do it! I want to hear about this –

Amanda: I don’t know if I have it digitally. I might.

Sarah: – seminiferous tubloidal demon.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, thank you once again for recapping RT with me. This is fun!

Amanda: You’re welcome!

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Yes, the issue from March 2009 is up on Patreon. I could have sworn I did it, but thank you to Carla for reminding me that it wasn’t there.

And I will put this article about RT’s Mr. Romance pageant up as well. Maybe take an antacid beforehand? Because on one hand, it is a very clear look at what was happening. Nothing that this person is reporting isn’t true. But my God, the angle, the lens, the misogyny, the condescending attitude. Really, really glad that movie didn’t get made. [Laughs]

As always, I end with a bad joke. This week’s joke is really bad, and that’s why I’m telling it to you, because I’m a terrible person. Well, actually, no, I’m a good person; I tell you bad jokes.

Do you know why in the UK it’s called a lift, but in the US it’s called an elevator?

People are just raised differently.

[Laughs] I hope that made you groan and that you tell many people. Raised differently.

On behalf of everyone here, including Wilbur – who you heard a lot from in that episode; my goodness, sir! – we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, we’ll see you back here next week, and in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening. You’re welcome for talking!

[end of music]