741. RT Rewind: June 2007 Ads & Features

[intro]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 741 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and we are getting back into the time machine. We’re going back to June 2007 to look at the ads and features in Romantic Times magazine. This one has got some God-awful letters to the editor and some equally heinous responses, and we came prepared for battle. But first we’re going to talk about cereal, because we have important topics to discuss.

And I have a CONTENT WARNING: at about twenty minutes into our conversation, we start talking about a letter to the editor, and please be advised that there is some rancid homophobia on display here. We’re going to talk about it.

I will have links to everything that we discuss in this episode in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 741!

As always, hello and thank you to our Patreon community. They keep us going. They’re fabulous. They’re some of the nicest people on the internet. Every week we get a hand-compiled transcript from garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! – [hey, Sarah! – gk] – and Patreon members have a wonderful Discord to hang out in, but most importantly, it’s Holiday Wishes time!

So if you are in the Patreon, there is a link in the Patreon, in the Discord, lots of different places, where you can sign up to connect with me for a fifteen-minute interview, and out of those interviews come some of our favorite episodes of the year, when we talk about what we’ve read and what our wishes are for the next year, and it’s just a lovely, feel-good experience. And if you’re thinking, Oh, this is very intimidating; no, I promise it’s super not! It is really easy, you’re just talking to me, and I promise you’re going to have a good time.

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All right, the time machine is powered-up; it’s charged; let’s hop in and go back in time, shall we? On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: All right, are you ready? This is going to be a –

Amanda: Yes! Oh boy.

Sarah: This is, this – we’re, we’re going to throw down.

Amanda: Oh boy!

Sarah: We’re going to throw down in this issue because there are some things said that we disagree. I’m, I’m so pumped for battle, I’m having a protein shake.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I am so pumped, I need protein to get me through this. Mm!

Amanda: I don’t understand putting protein in everything. Like, I went to go get, was it like coffee at Dunks the other day, and they have like…

Sarah: Protein coffee –

Amanda: I was like –

Sarah: – protein Doritos. Yeah.

Amanda: Stop it!

Sarah: It’s just pea protein. If you want pea protein, just eat some peas. One of the –

Amanda: I will say, the protein mac and cheese? Pretty good. I like that.

Sarah: I do love the, the, the Fairlife chocolate milks. Like, these are very nice.

Amanda: Those look good. I love a chocolate milk.

Sarah: But I just like chocolate milk! Like, inside, I’m eight.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That weird conference that I went to – which I constantly joked was like a Scientology recruitment event, and I just didn’t know it. Like, I’m doing a scavenger hunt in the hotel, as you do – one of the sessions was from a food researcher whose new book is about breakfast cereal? She collects cereal boxes, and she and another researcher wrote a book that talks about the history of American nutrition trends through what was on the cereal boxes. So when everyone was doing Atkins, this is what cereal looked like.

Amanda: Hmmm!

Sarah: But now that everyone’s doing protein, this is what cereal looks like. It, what –

Amanda: I remember, like, at Atkins and Weight Watchers, there was the big push as Special K for a meal replacement? Like –

Sarah: Ohhh yes.

Amanda: – have a bowl of Special K for dinner or lunch –

Sarah: Yes. You can’t –

Amanda: – and breakfast?

Sarah: You can’t pinch an inch? Yeah. The book – I’m just putting it in here – the book, if you’re curious, is called Sugar Coated by Marion Nestle and Lisa Sutherland. Marion Nestle came to speak, and I got a copy of the book, and it is dedicated to all cereal lovers? [Laughs]

Amanda: I love cereal.

Sarah: So I went up to her and I was like, You dedicated this to me. You dedicated your book to me. I love cereal. Would you sign it? And she’s like, Absolutely. [Laughs]

Amanda: Early in my pregnancy I was like, I just want a buffet of cereal?

Sarah: Oh yeah! Oh yeah. All I could eat was Honey Nut Cheerios! Ah.

Amanda: Yeah, I had Honey Nut Cheerios, we got some Cap’n Crunch with Crunch Berries –

Sarah: Mm.

Amanda: – and of course –

Sarah: You don’t need, you don’t need the roof of your mouth. It’s optional.

Amanda: No. And Cinnamon Toast Crunch, which is my absolute favorite. Oh!

Sarah: I had a whole conversation with people while we were, you know, eating cereal, talking about the cereals that we miss? I don’t think Honey Smacks exist anymore? I don’t think that exists.

Amanda: Ooh, we could get those.

Sarah: And Honeycomb cereal, which I think still exists, but it was the best bang for your buck because the wheels were fucking huge, and the box was huge, so it felt like you got so much more if you bought a box of –

Amanda: Was it like Waffle Crisp? Where they –

Sarah: Yes, Waffle Crisp!

Amanda: – were like maple syrup. Oh, my absolute favorite is the Rice Krispy Treats cereal? So instead of, like, Rice Krispies –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – they were, like, you know, bunched together? And it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – it was like they took Rice Krispies Treats, chunked them up, and put them in a cereal. That was my favorite that does not –

Sarah: …cereal.

Amanda: – exist anymore, is Rice Krispies Treats cereal.

Sarah: We once rented an Airbnb in Madrid, and the person who was renting this Airbnb was clearly, like, really good at it. Like, this had so many little tiny creature comforts. Like, for example, he filled the fridge with a, like, one of the drawers of the fridge was filled top to bottom with Valencia oranges, and then there was a juicer on the counter so you could have fresh orange juice? Let me tell you, Valencia oranges are really good. So we had fresh squeezed orange juice every morning, and they had a big jar of Cookie Crisp. I thought Adam was going to have a litter of kittens, he was so excited. I have pictures of him, like, chowing down on Cookie Crisp – [laughs] – in Madrid. Who doesn’t want little chocolate chip cookies in their bowl, right?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I feel like this could be a whole podcast episode. In fact, if you would like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – a podcast episode for us to talk about cereal, we will do that. But what you have to do is email us or comment on social media or comment in the Patreon: what are your favorite cereals? Which cereals –

Amanda: What’s your favorite cereal?

Sarah: – do you miss very much? Oh, you know what I could eat any fucking time, and I can’t always find? Apple Jacks.

Amanda: Apple Jacks. I, like, Apple Jacks were really good. I’m trying to think. French To-, they, they also had French Toast Crunch for a limited time?

Sarah: Mm. Yep.

Amanda: I love a Golden Graham?

Sarah: Oh, Golden Grahams were so good! And the, and –

Amanda: …Golden Graham.

Sarah: – and special bonus for any cereal that made the milk taste good. Like, Golden Grahams –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – made the milk taste good –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Cocoa Krispies. Even Kix, which is not a very interesting cereal –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – would sweeten the milk to the point where it would – and it, and because they have that sugar coating on the outside, they stay crispy longer.

Amanda: Yeah. Cocoa –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – I prefer a Cocoa Puff over a Pebble because the Pebbles get soggy so quickly.

Sarah: They do, they do.

Amanda: Oh my gosh. Now I’m thinking about cereal.

Sarah: Currently, the cereals that we always have in our house, I like All-Bran Buds, but I don’t eat them as a cereal; I put them in yogurt? Like, they’re little, tiny little things, so it’s not like, you know, finding a whole boulder in your food. I don’t like when there’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – one large texture and then huge chunks of another texture. Like, it has to be small. Like, I don’t like kale or any big-leafed green that I have to, like, cut up. It’s like finding a maxi pad in your food; it’s huge!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, what am I supposed to do with all this?

We always have Frosted Mini-Wheats, but the –

Amanda: Ooh!

Sarah: – the, the discount Malt-O-Meal bag? ‘Cause we, we have a, the Tupperware just for our cereal ‘cause we, this is, this is no Mickey Mouse operation over here. But the Malt-O-Meal version that comes in a bag, most of those are as good or identical to the name brand? Their Honey Nut Cheerios are not as good as actual Honey Nut Cheerios, but the Frosted Mini-Wheats do not go soggy, and they are so good. So good.

Amanda: I love a Frosted Mini-Wheat. We love a Honey Nut Cheerio, ‘cause Cheerios, I think, are gluten-free?

Sarah: They are gluten-free! And they’re –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – they’re, they’re baby’s first food for a lot of people.

Amanda: Yeah. I ate them, all I could eat in my early pregnancy was Honey Nut Cheerios and frozen grapes. Those were the only things I could, I could really, like –

Sarah: That sounds like me! I ate, I ate frozen, I ate Honey Nut Cheerios, and I ate those big donut crullers that’s like a glazed donut that’s twist? Oh yeah, I’d have one of those every day. I didn’t give a fuck.

Amanda: Yeah, and then I love, I do like a Special K! I think a Special K is a good cereal. With, like, the little bits of strawberry. I like the fruit and yogurt ones that have, like, the little –

Sarah: Mm.

Amanda: – yogurt pieces?

Sarah: Little balls. Yeah. I have been known to enjoy Raisin Bran, but it, only if it’s got, like, it’s the bottom of the box and it’s got all the raisins.

Amanda: One of the things –

Sarah: Can’t –

Amanda: – so my, my mom would always have Raisin Bran, but she would put a metric fuck ton of sugar in that thing.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So when you scraped the bottom of the bowl, you would get –

Sarah: Right?

Amanda: – like, sugar, milk, and Raisin Bran.

Sarah: Ohhh, that’s a lot.

Amanda: Yeah. It was thick.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Shall we get started talking about the June 2007 Romantic Times ads and features?

Amanda: [Sighs] Yes.

Sarah: There – y’all, strap in. This one, this one’s, this one’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – quite a, quite a ride. So the cover is the Immortals by Jennifer Ashley, which is a new paranormal series called The Calling. So it’s Immortals: The Calling, and then I think it’s Immor-, Immortals: The Awakening, Immortals: The Gathering, Immortals: The Darkening. I don’t love this call, this, this title motif when people use it, because –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I can’t keep them straight. It’s like Wicked Deeds at a Night’s Edge, War Dark, Dark Winters at My Edge. Like, just –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Ahhh! That, that was confusing.

Amanda: And then she, like, deviated to just doing names, and then she’s, like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – back into – yeah, it’s –

Sarah: Amanda, is there a man on the cover – [laughs] – of Romantic Times?

Amanda: You know there is! Yeah, Lee Child. [Laughs]

Sarah: Lee Child is, is featured in this: On Reacher’s Bad Luck and Trouble. And I read that article –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – because we just finished watching season one of Reacher.

Amanda: Yeah! What’d you think?

Sarah: I am tapping out. I am tapping out because –

Amanda: It’s very violent.

Sarah: Okay, it’s very violent, and initially I was like, Okay, this is very violent, but it’s almost cartoonish? Like, this is cartoon violence. And also the, the definition of characters as good or bad is so heavy ham-fisted? Like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Reacher good; saves dog.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Finlay good; saves dog. This guy bad; you know, does bad thing. Like, the, the, there is a very heavy dollop of morality to make you see –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – oh, this character, despite just beating the fuck out of somebody, this is a good guy, ‘cause he cares about dogs and children.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Then there’s a scene later on where a couple are killed, and I, after that – it’s towards the end; I want to say it’s like, there’s eight episodes; maybe that was episode six or seven?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I looked at Adam and I said, I’m going to finish this? But I’m done. Because the degree of cruelty and violence on these characters was so graphic. I was like, You don’t need to convince me that these guys are bad. I just watched them –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – do wet work on – I saw a guy’s hog. There’s, there’s hog in this show –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – like full peen.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: I saw some guy’s hog –

Amanda: Surprise.

Sarah: Yeah, surprise hog! I saw some guy’s hog. Like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I don’t need to know that these guys are bad. You’ve just – this was gratuitous. It did not need to be –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that gratuitous? And so once you –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – cross the line into, we’re just doing this to appall you, I’m, I’m out. So Adam has started season two, but I am, I have tapped out.

Amanda: Almost done with season two. I did not realize how graphic it was. Not that it bothers me? I was just, like, really surprised. And one of my friends who’s not American started watching it and had to tap out because she’s like, Wow, there’s a lot of gunfire. There’s a lot of loud guns.

Sarah: Yes! You told me that. And then after I read that in the Slack, I noticed how right they are. There’s a ton of gun –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – gunfire noise.

Amanda: And then Brian compares Reacher – and I think this is a fair criticism – it’s like Reacher’s kind of like a Mary Sue, right?

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: Does everything right; like, doesn’t ever, like, get hurt that badly.

Sarah: Muscly giant Boy Scout. Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah! And I’m like, Look, I’m not watching this to, because it’s like the greatest thing on television?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I know what I’m getting into, and I don’t mind –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – looking at this awkward beefcake on my TV screen for an hour, okay?

Sarah: The awkward beefcake factor is so good. Also, the actor who plays him is doing a really good job with this character. Like, he’s doing great.

Amanda: Yeah. It was interest- –

Sarah: And I love Neagley!

Amanda: Yes, Neagley’s so good.

Sarah: I wish, I wish I could tap back in. I wish I could tap back into her series, but Adam –

Amanda: Neagley has – yeah. Neagley has her own spinoff now.

Sarah: I know, but I would – according to Adam – so Adam loves anything that has what he calls a fire hose of lore. Like, he wants a series that –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that’s ninety books long with tons of lore. Like, he just wants to go in a world, stay there, see ya in five years. And so he was asking some people who are fans of the series: Can you, if you haven’t watched season two, can you start Neagley? And they’re like, No, you kind of need to fill in before you start that because there is kind of a chronology. So –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I, as we’ve established, do not care about such things. So maybe I’ll try Neagley when he starts it, but I’ve tapped out of Reacher for now. I can’t. Like, I woke up at – I did the thing where my brain woke me up at 3 a.m. to process my emotions about the show, and I was like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Well, this is clearly too much for my brain; I’m losing sleep because my brain’s upset. So okay.

But yes, Lee Child on the cover.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Right as I’m watching the end of the first season of Reacher on Amazon, from a magazine from 2007. I love when that serendipity happens. I always feel like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Oh! Oh! Okay! Like, that sort of synchronicity? Like, I’m, I’m watching the new adaptation in 2026, and here he is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – in the magazine that we’re talking about.

So on page 2 is Kresley Cole’s whole series, If You Deceive, Desire, or Dare. I believe these were –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Scottish historicals. I think these –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – were some of her first books.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I have a funny story about this. And I think you were there when she told this, or maybe not. But either way –

Amanda: I don’t know!

Sarah: – Kresley was talking at, I think an RWA, about how she got started with the Immortals After Dark. And basically, she was looking at the end of her contract and wanted to get her editor on the phone and just chat with her about, like, what, what are you, what is, what’s going on? What’s hot? So she decides that she’s going to call at like 4:30 on a Friday, because the editor is going to be likely to answer the phone thinking that it’s somebody who wants to make plans or get together, and she’s sort of already clocked off, so she’s sort of mentally relaxed. And she’s like, So late Friday afternoon, 4:30, 4:45, that’s when I call her, because I know I can just have a chat with her and it won’t be like, Oh, I have to take notes. Why is your agent not on the line? Just like, Hey! I’m just –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – calling to ask you. So she calls the editor and is like, Hey, just wanted to just talk with you, see, see what’s, what’s going on, you know. What do you think is the new thing? She’s like, You know, I really think, like, paranormal and immortality is something? Like, mythology. There’s something happening in paranormal. And Kresley’s like, Oh, good to know! Immortals After Dark. Genius!

Amanda: It’s still cooking, too.

Sarah: Fucking, fucking genius. Genius!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So yeah, the minute I saw that – because I remember, like, oh, she wrote Scottish historicals, and now she’s writing a paranormal adventure series. But yeah –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that’s how it happened, according to her. I mean, could be wrong.

On page 5 is sort of like the Top Picks, where they will put all of the Top Picks for the month in one section with some of the covers, just so you can see. Like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – here’s what we gave the Top Pick to. One of them is a book called Beg Me by Lisa Lawrence –

Amanda: Sure is. [Laughs]

Sarah: – and this cover is so disturbing. It is a person’s midriff, and there are really thick ropes. Like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – these look to be about two, two inches diameter, around her hips and then around her chest, like a rope bikini. But –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – all you really see is this stomach and a belly button. And so all I see is this sort of like, you know the emoji that’s like big eyes and a round mouth? That’s what I see.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oooh! Surprise –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Beg Me! Oooh, belly button.

Amanda: That’s a – I mean, not to body shame. It’s a big belly button, and definitely the focal point of the cover.

Sarah: It’s a, it is a, it is definitely an innie. And this person is very lean, so this belly is very, like, one-dimensional. The, the belly button –

Amanda: Imagine your job title being like, you know, some people are hand models? What if you’re a belly button –

Sarah: Book cover belly button? [Laughs]

Amanda: – belly button model?

Sarah: Book cover belly button. That’s a really good job. I hope it pays well.

Amanda: Like, That’s my belly button on this cover.

Sarah: I hope it pays really well.

So Kathryn Falk’s letter To Booklovers from Kathryn Falk –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Lady of Barrow. Is this the most on-brand she’s ever been?

Amanda: Yeah. This is –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: This feels, like, satirical almost.

Sarah: Oh my God! If you and I were making a fake letter, this is exactly what we would do.

Amanda: Yeah. Yes.

Sarah: So first she talks about the ca-, the convention planning in Houston with fairy balls, dinner theater, nightly entertainment, and an awesome lineup of seventeen genres of women’s, women’s fiction, including new, now age, spirituality and self-empowerment. I’m really glad now age did not become a thing, because that’s just –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that’s just not good. First up, what does she talk about? The Secret! Do you remember when The Secret –

Amanda: And I’m like –

Sarah: – was everywhere?

Amanda: I’m like of fucking course Kathryn Falk –

Sarah: [Laughs] This is her jam!

Amanda: – would be into The Secret. Of course –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – she would! Yeah.

Sarah: Do you want to read this paragraph? Because it’s just –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: >> Houston is also the opportunity to announce my new book, The Secret Examined: How to Apply the Principles. It augments Rhonda Byrnes’ bestselling documentary and book, The Secret. Being a longtime fan of her concept, I wanted to fill in missing links that her ninety-minute film couldn’t cover.

Sarah: I am googling for this book, and I cannot find it. I don’t know if it wasn’t published or it just came and went?

Amanda: Oooh!

Sarah: but googling The Secret Examined: How to Apply the Principles yields very little. So either it came out –

Amanda: Is it –

Sarah: – and it –

Amanda: It’s not on Goodreads!

Sarah: It’s not on Goodreads; it’s not listed with any of Kathryn’s other books? Like, it’s very strange. There’s –

Amanda: God, imagine announcing this and then it not coming out.

Sarah: Oh my God. Well, I’m sure she would have great stories about it, ‘cause Kathryn at all things is an entertainer. And there’s also a mention at the bottom:

>> Plans are well underway for our 2008 convention in Pittsburgh, October 16th through the 20th.

That was my first RT. I’ve told stories about it. It was terrible. The hotel was under construction; everyone who had asthma was miserable. It was not a great experience, but for my first RT, it was pretty fucking magical. That was the year that one of the Mr. Romance pageants had a psychological episode and threatened his roommate, another contestant, and all of the women who had probably moments before been ogling all of the contestants, all of these women are like nurses! This is a big nurse contingent. They were like, Absolutely not; we are handling it. Two of the women moved him out, put him in their room, got a rollaway, involved the conference. And then eventually the person who was having this break was led out of the hotel in a straitjacket –

Amanda: Oh boy!

Sarah: – with the Pittsburgh Police Department. I was like, Wow! My home-, my hometown looks really wild here. Hmm!

Amanda: I hope, I hope he’s doing okay, wherever he is.

Sarah: [Sighs] I hope he’s doing well; I hope he’s okay.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That could not have been a good experience.

All right. I have been thinking about this letter to the editor since I fucking read it –

Amanda: Oooh.

Sarah: – and I have been thinking, I have been thinking about the, the response. And I also, I have to issue a correction to the history that I have spoken about RT, but I’ll get to that in a second. Okay. Do you want me to read the letter, and you read the response? Which is going to piss you off less? I, I am concerned for your blood pressure.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Your blood pressure is an important concern at this time.

Amanda: My blood pressure’s, my blood pressure numbers are good, so –

Sarah: Good for you!

Amanda: – you know.

Sarah: I don’t want to upset anything.

Amanda: I think I’ll read the response. That feels –

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: – less anger-inducing.

Sarah: All right, buckle up; here we go.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: “Ad”-Ed Opposition. So it’s an opposition about an ad.

>> I’ve been a reader of Romantic Times Book Reviews since the very beginning, and I’ve followed the improvements of it throughout the years. Like other readers, I have my favorite genres and authors, and just ignore the articles or reviews that do not interest me.

TRIGGER WARNING.

>> There is one thing I have seen developing lately. First, you had the erotic romance reviews, then just erotica, and in some cases, soft porn, as some like to call it. I do not care for it and do not read the reviews. But I have to tell you, I was shocked and offended by the ad on page 134 of the April issue (RT #278) with a picture of two men in bed!

Amanda: I think that –

Sarah: >> I do not –

Amanda: That ad is in this magazine.

Sarah: I’m pretty sure it is, yeah. That picture. Okay.

>> I do not believe and cannot accept that this stuff is in my magazine. The gay population, in my opinion, have their magazines. If this is going to be another feature in this magazine, I will not buy it any longer. Linda Diason, Houston, Texas.

Linda, you can fuck right off –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – but okay.

Amanda: Fuck you, Linda.

Sarah: So I was like, Wow, that’s a really, that’s a – okay, in the position of a person who has run ads for things, that’s a hard position to be in, and I have had to tell authors, I cannot run this ad because the images that you are using are really upsetting. What can we do to make this better? But the ads are what keep the magazine in business, so you’re going to take seriously somebody who’s like, I don’t like the ads.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But also, that’s selling? Like, it, it’s a, it’s a popular genre. Erotic romance was huge at this time; male/male was starting to take off. Like, okay. [Sighs] So here’s RT’s response.

Amanda: Yeah.

>> We’re sorry that the ad offended you, Linda. While we do monitor the covers that go into each section, including the erotica, RT’s policy is that we will not review male/male or female/female books in the magazine, but we do allow them to be advertised.

Sarah: Booooooo!

Amanda: But I feel like they eventually start reviewing male/male books!

Sarah: Yes, I have, I have information about that. Yeah.

Amanda: >> Publishers of these books claim there is a huge straight female audience for the male/male books. We even po- –

Sarah: What?! [Laughs]

Amanda: They claim!

>> We even posted the question on our website and got positive responses from middle-aged straight women who said they love a tender male/male romance like Brokeback Mountain.

Sarah: They’re so close, Amanda. They’re so close.

Amanda: >> As the romance genre has expanded, so have we, and in an effort to be as fair as possible, we feel that advertising the books provides a service.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: >> The Erotica section, in general, is not for everyone, just like the Inspirational section is not for everyone. But our goal is to let readers know what’s out there, to give them choices and introduce them to genres, books, and authors they may have never picked up. Thank you for taking the time to write to RT. Your feedback and that of other readers who respond to your letter –

Sarah: Oooh.

Amanda: >> – is very much appreciated and can help shape the future of the magazine.

Sarah: Okay, so that, they’re trolling.

Amanda: Oh, one hundred percent.

Sarah: That’s, they’re rage-baiting. But as you point out –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – they do review male/male in later issues.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: So here is where I need to offer a correction to my impression of RT. I was incorrect when I have said in the past that RT, the convention, was a place that was welcoming to queer books and queer authors. That is not actually true. I checked with, about this with some authors who were writing ménage and erotic and were, were working with other male/male romance authors. What happened was RT maintained a line where they would not review any of the gay stuff, although they did review ménage.

Amanda: The gay stuff!

Sarah: Right? They would review ménage with two men and a woman or, you know, multiple combinations. They would not review male/male or female/female romance.
And the reason that changed is because the publishers who were making money on it pressured Kathryn into doing it because they convinced her that she looked like an idiot, not taking advantage. And if you know one thing about Kathryn Falk, this woman knows how to make money.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So she had to change her position on reviewing some of the male/male romances, especially when you had publishers like Ellora’s Cave and Samhain and Loose Id in the early days, they were making literal millions of dollars. Like, it was so, so flush with money. And you know, you saw that, you know, Ellora’s Cave had their own booth at BEA! Who was that for except other publishers to be like, You have to take us seriously; look what we can afford. We have a bus full of hot, shirtless men, and they’re staffing our booth. You have to take this seriously.

The same thing happened to Kathryn, and she had to not only open the magazine to advertising, but also start reviewing the books. However, when I reached out to different people who were working at this time, they said to their knowledge, RT never reviewed a sapphic romance. They wanted nothing to do with lesbian romance. You would not even know it existed in this magazine.

Amanda: We haven’t, we haven’t seen one yet.

Sarah: Not a single one. And I think that’s one of the reasons why sapphic romance is just now starting to grow beyond what Tara, who reviews for us, calls the, the walled garden of sapphic romance. That’s a very walled-garden community. RT never reviewed it.

Now, my mistake was thinking, I’m at the conference, and I am seeing so many authors of queer, male/male, sapphic, bisexual romance, ‘cause I was talking to all of them. They were there in spite of the magazine’s position, and they were there spending money and convincing the magazine that it had to adjust. So I was incorrect in thinking that RT had welcomed queer people? RT did not. Publishers and other authors and the small digital presses forced the issue. And being a business, RT followed the money.

So I was wrong about that, and I was operating off my own, like, impressions, ‘cause, like, I talked to the co-, I talked to all the queer authors! I mean, you were at RT!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: There were queer authors, authors there. I mean, I mean, I mean by that, like, writers of queer books. So I don’t have to keep saying male/male and sapphic, ‘cause it gets repetitive.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So yeah, that was my mistake. I’m so fucking appalled – [laughs] – at this letter. We don’t –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – review them, but we allow them to be advertised. Booooo! Boooo!

Amanda: I have, like, several questions of, like, one, did anyone write in to respond to this –

Sarah: How far in the future –

Amanda: – in subsequent issues?

Sarah: – would it be? Let me see here.

Amanda: May-, I would check, like, maybe the next three months of July, August, September if you, if we have those issues?

Sarah: I’m looking at my inventory –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – right now.

Amanda: Two, once they started reviewing male/male romances, did they mention it? Did they say, Hey, we’re doing this, or did they just start putting them in there?

Sarah: ‘Cause we saw them! We talked about them!

Amanda: Yeah, we talked about them. This also, too, when you were like, Oh yeah, they, they reviewed ménage romances, this is something that I saw, maybe it was on – and I know this is not the proper term; we don’t use this term anymore – but the reverse harem subreddit? I –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Amanda: I have seen –

Sarah: I’m pulling out my inventory.

Amanda: I have seen people sort of, like, debate or get into it where there are certain readers who will not read a Why Choose romance if any of the male love interests are interested in each other. So if there’s any male/male content in this Why Choose romance, they will not read it. They feel like it should be labeled male/male romance. There is a certain subsection of Why Choose readers –

Sarah: That’s fascinating.

Amanda: – who do not want those pairings or that content in their Why Choose romance. They just want one woman at the center of all of these men.

Sarah: So they’re, they’re, it’s still male-centered, right? It’s all –

Amanda: Yeah! It’s like –

Sarah: – it’s, it’s, it’s – and then the men aren’t supposed –

Amanda: But also, come on!

Sarah: – to be interested in each other. I, oh, I remember very clearly a Lauren Dane novel where there was a ménage, they were in a triad, and the, the, she, I think the heroine, she’s like, Look, guys, I, my cycle started; I’m miserable; I’m, I’m crampy.

Amanda: Is it the Brown sisters –

Sarah: You guys –

Amanda: – series?

Sarah: I think it might have been, but the, the heroine was basically like, You guys go have fun with each other. If you’re horny, you know what to do, but I’m not involved.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then they went off and they did fun things!

So I have, in my inventory, this is June 2007.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I have October and November 2007. October has an, a, a letter about historicals. Allegedly, Baby Boomers like historical romance; that was the message there. And the mailbag in – what is this? Doot-di-do-do-do – November 2007 has a letter about Missing Kathleen Woodiwiss; Are Paranormals Low Class?

Amanda: Oooh!

Sarah: I’ll get to that – and Baby Boomers Reunite.

>> I’m one of the boomers Roseanne Bittner wrote about in her letter in October. I agree with all the points about older writers, or older readers.

But yeah, there’s nothing in here about this letter.

Amanda: Yeah. So if, like –

Sarah: If I see any other 2007 issues –

Amanda: Yeah. If they have an, a response to an October letter in November, it seems like they do work like a month out. So –

Sarah: They’re getting a little faster. Yeah, well –

Amanda: Yeah, so.

Sarah: – if, if this is the era when you can lay this out on, on a computer and then send the file? Let’s see. And then I have January 2008, just in case. January 2008 has How come you don’t have a Top Pick in the Inspirationals the last couple of months? Paranormal romances are not low class.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And Historical authors writing in other subgenres: Why are they doing that? Please come back.

So yeah, I don’t – in the collection that I have, I don’t see any. But I will tell you, if you’re curious, from November 2007, why do you think this person might feel that paranormal romance is low class? Can you guess why that –

Amanda: ‘Cause my mom read it? Sorry.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yeah, but, but I read it too! So do a lot of people! No.

Amanda: [Laughs] I feel like my mom just leans into the stereotype. I –

Sarah: I will not argue with you on that assessment. But no, it is not because who reads them! When I tell you why, you’re going to be like, Oh, of course.

Amanda: I mean, like, I, maybe I’m off base, but a lot of the time paranormals were in more urban, diverse settings?

Sarah: That is a good theory, but that is not the reason why this person says that the paranormals are low class.

Amanda: Oh boy. Is it the leather pants?

Sarah: No, it’s the cursing.

>> The heroine, as well as others, uses the F word and worse! And the love scenes are not only more graphic, they include vulgar, low-class slang words to describe various body parts.

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: >> I usually share my books –

Amanda: Well, what is it, like –

Sarah: >> – with my daughter-in-law, but I’m too embarrassed to share these. It was just a shock to –

Amanda: Oh, is it the Black Dagger – [laughs] -the Black Dagger Brotherhood shit-kicker boots? Is that what we’re talking about?

Sarah: Possibly.

>> It was just a shock to see these words in print, along with the other vulgar terms for both the male and female sex organs in a book by a writer I’d always read and admired.

She’s talking about somebody who went from historical to paranormal, so that doesn’t really narrow it down.

>> I have noticed that –

Amanda: Jennifer Ashley?

Sarah: Ohhh, maybe.

>> – some other writers switch genres and seem to think that using foul language helps to put them in the 21st century. Not with this gal!

So the reason that they are low class is because Kathy Blute, Blutge, Blutja from Sterling, Virginia, doesn’t like –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – cursing. So that’s why they’re low class, everybody.

Amanda: Oh no, Kathy!

Sarah: Fucking hell! I have none class whatsoever.

Amanda: No, none class left beef.

Sarah: None class on left beef. Oh my God, yep.

So yeah, that letter pissed me the fuck off, and this one about paranormal being low class hasn’t really helped me much either. But yeah! That’s, that’s the letter!

Amanda: It’s just, like, so funny of, like – ’cause she’s like, I, I do not care for it and do not read the reviews. Okay, great! That’s, that’s what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to move along. Like, you know, if you’re not interested in the genre, don’t read the section.

Sarah: I promise there is so much else that you can read. [Laughs] There’s, like, a lot you can read.

Amanda: Gosh. It reminds me of that meme where the guy’s riding the bicycle and he sticks a stick into the thing and then, like, falls over?

Sarah: How could they do this to me? Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. That’s what I feel like.

Sarah: This reminds me – okay, this reminds me of the whole iced coffee conversation that was happening on social media?

Amanda: Like, I ranted about this to a coworker. The thing is –

Sarah: I cannot imagine why. Why?

Amanda: Well, you have the iced coffee, and then on the heels is the lesbian bar in western Massachusetts, which I felt –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – were two sides of the same coin.

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: A real bean soup scenario.

Sarah: So I was, I was talking about this with Adam, who occupies – this would be a really fun podcast, I think, because Adam and I occupy very different parts of the internet, so even though we are both very online, we are never online –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – about the same things, and the stuff he tells me, and the stuff I tell him are just, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – ships in the night; nothing in common. So he only knows about some of this pop culture shit and then knows about it for trivia because of me.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But I was telling him about the whole iced coffee thing, about how it is really not a good idea to bring an iced coffee to a job interview, and I don’t understand why that’s a question. He’s like, I wouldn’t even bring a beverage to a job interview. Why would I bring a beverage?

Amanda: They also usually offer you water, tea –

Sarah: Right! And one of the things that I think Tressie McMillan Cottom was talking about with this whole debate is that this is also a question of status, because the interviews that they were talking about were specifically, like, C-suite and executive and director positions.

Amanda: Fortune 500 companies.

Sarah: Right. Those have rules! And just because you don’t like those rules or think they apply to you doesn’t mean that they aren’t there. But moreover, there was this sort of resentment that they couldn’t maintain their preferred standards of behavior in a higher status job interview. And for a lot of people it was like, What do you mean there are all these rules for behavior in a business on that level? And like, of course there are. Have you seen executives? They all wear the same clothes at this point.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And one of the, one of the arguments that was sort of trying to encapsulate the whole thing was the idea that there are some people for whom if something isn’t for them, they’re mad about it. Not, they can’t just take on, Oh, that’s not for me. Okay, I will move on. That is not for me, and therefore it is bad, and I am angry that this exists. Like, this rule does not apply to you; you are not interviewing with these companies and this position level. But if you ever did –

Amanda: Yeah, if –

Sarah: – don’t bring iced coffee seems like a good, like, piece of knowledge. But the idea that This is not for me creates rage for the person it’s not for, it’s the same with Linda! Okay, this isn’t for you. Move along! It’s two guys in bed!

Amanda: And if you don’t like arbitrary rules, like, I highly doubt you’ll be interviewing for a Fortune 500 company if – [laughs] – if you don’t –

Sarah: Right!

Amanda: – like arbitrary rules. But I also sent you that thread of the, a woman who is talking about this, and I thought she put it so succinctly of, Not everything you disagree with requires resistance.

Sarah: Yeess!

Amanda: Like –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – you can just disagree with it and move on with your day.

Sarah: This is like, that, that, that meme. Marcus Aurelius has already released you from having a take. Have you seen this? So, okay, Marcus Aurelius is a famous stoic philosopher.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I will say that my personal favorite stoic philosopher is Epictetus [Epic-TEE-tus], not just because his name is Epictetus. Now, I could have sworn it was Epictetus [A-PICK-tuh-tis], but people are like, No, it’s Epictetus [Epic-TEE-tus]! So, all right, ‘Tetus. He’s my favorite.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: Marcus Aurelius:

>> You are not compelled to form any opinion about this matter before you, nor to disturb your peace of mind at all. Things in themselves have no power to extort a verdict from you.

Marcus Aurelius released you thousands of years ago from the obligation to have a take. Like, just listen to him!

Amanda: But that’s like the antithesis of social media right now, where –

Sarah: Of the internet, yeah.

Amanda: – you’re required –

Sarah: We all need to have a take, and we all need to resist things that aren’t for us. Like, oh boy. Like, you and I talk all the time about how, as much as we love the plots and the covers, and clearly these books have a lot of production behind them; they’re edited; there’s a lot of development for some of these inspirationals. We’re not interested!

Amanda: No!

Sarah: Like, the JBV is a big hurdle for us. But that’s okay! I’m not mad about it!

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. I’m not mad they exist!

Sarah: I’m mad about this letter that’s mad about it! [Laughs] So yeah, that was, whew! I read that and thought, wow, this is going to be a fun fucking issue. So boo to Linda and fuck this response –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and my apologies –

Amanda: And if anyone has –

Sarah: – for having the history incorrect.

Amanda: – July or August 20-, 2007 –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – take a peek, see if there’s a response to Linda’s fuck-ass letter.

Sarah: Not in my magazine. They have their magazine. Oh boy. Okay.

Moving on, we have –

Amanda: Yeah, moving on.

Sarah: – the cover article on PDF pages 10 and 11 is Jennifer Ashley sort of explaining the world of her series, and the explanation goes on for two pages. This world is complicated.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s not like The Immortals came to Earth and they are stuck. It’s huuuge lore and lots of moving parts, and it takes, like, many paragraphs to explain. And I was thinking, remember we were talking earlier in the reviews episode, like, would some of these dense books be published now? No. This, no.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This is way too much plot.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: And then they have an ad for Jackie Frank!

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Jackie Frank once yelled at me at an RT. I was seated outside, and she sat down next to me, and I was like, Hi! And she’s like, I have a bone to pick with you. And I was like, Oh shit. And she went off on me –

Amanda: Oh no.

Sarah: – off, like, yelling at me about a review. It was on Dear Author, wasn’t on Smart Bitches.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I was like, so I…at this point, you know, Jane was still around and I was like, I, so I spoke to somebody who didn’t like a review, and she went, Uh-oh. I’m like, Yeah, they thought it was me, and she went, Oh no! [Laughs]

Amanda: When, did you stop her and be like, I think you’re confusing me, or did you just let her get it all out?

Sarah: She was unstoppable in her ire. Like, clearly it had been, it had been festering and simmering. She needed to really –

Amanda: She needed to work through some things.

Sarah: – she was not hearing me saying, Okay, wait, wait, wait.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: She goes, No, I’m going to finish. Don’t you interrupt me. And I’m like, Okay! All right. So I just did –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – my listening face and –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: I’ve had many authors say many out-of-pocket things to me at conferences. The secret is, I almost always have a water bottle with a straw, and so if they start going off on me, I start drinking from the straw so I don’t, like, interrupt and make it worse or say something –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – ‘cause it’s like, just, this is not actually about you. Just let it, this happen? The downside of that is I’m drinking so fucking much when people are unhinged that I’m in the bathroom all the time!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: ‘Cause I drink so much water rather than responding to people who are – one time an author went off on me in front of their publicists. I thought their publicists were going to die. They were so uncomfortable; it was amazing.

Amanda: Oh no!

Sarah: Please call out this ad, because you’re so right about this ad.

Amanda: Anytime I see these books – so this is for Gideon by Jacqueline Frank, but –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – she’s also the author of Jacob and Elijah. So, and these are paranormals, if my memory serves correctly. I always confuse these books with the Lords of Satyr series –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – because the Lords of Satyr series are also dude names with book –

Sarah: Nicholas.

Amanda: – number one being Nicholas. So it’s always confusing to me –

Sarah: Chet.

Amanda: – when I see these, and I’m like, Is it, are these the double peen books? Like, are –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And then I’m like, Nooo –

Sarah: These the hemipenes?

Amanda: No, it was like, I know –

Sarah: These are not the hemipenes.

Amanda: Yeah, ’cause I, trust me, once you see the Lords of Satyr covers, you’ll never forget them, but my brain always gets a little confused. So –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Together: Yeah.

Sarah: For sure. Okay.

So now we’re moving on to the dude, Amanda! It’s dude time! It’s time –

Amanda: Well, there’s –

Sarah: – for us to talk about a dude. A lot of dude in this issue.

Amanda: There are two dude articles. Yeah, there are two dude articles in here. No, I think three, ’cause I think they have one about, like, tips for writing, and I think that is also from a dude.

Sarah: Yeah, that’s a –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that’s a dude article too.

So this is the article about Lee Pace and Reacher, and two things I want to point out. Number one –

Amanda: You said, you just said Lee Pace, by the way.

Sarah: Did I say Lee Pace?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This isn’t about Lee Pace.

Amanda: Which, I get why, why you’d have that man on the brain.

Sarah: If this article was about Lee Pace, we would be here for an hour, easily.

Amanda: It’d be, we’d have a different reaction.

Sarah: This would be a three-hour episode. I wouldn’t cut a single damn word if it was about Lee Pace. No, it’s Lee Child, my bad. Thank you for correcting me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: He’s, it’s, it’s, like, all about the Reacher stories and, you know, Jack Reacher captures hearts and minds. And the, the funny thing is that in the article it says:

>> The debut book in the Reacher series, Killing Out, Killing Floor, won the 1997 Anthony Award –

And some blah-blah-blah.

>> Each subsequent novel in the series has racked up glowing praise. The eleventh installment, Bad Luck and Trouble, was published in May. In this novel, Reacher is called to action by his old military police unit when some of the members go missing and later turn up dead, having been kidnapped and tortured.

So the, the order in which the show is being adapted is exactly matched by the description of the series –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – in 2007. That’s a little freaky, right? Like, that’s –

Amanda: I, I like that they –

Sarah: – that’s kinda cool.

Amanda: – stick so – yeah – close to the source material. But at the beginning of each season they let you know, Okay, this season is based on –

Sarah: This book.

Amanda: – this book. Yeah.

Sarah: Right. And so there’s swe-, there’s, they’re going from one to book eleven, which for those of you who are series-in-order people must be very just distracting.

Then there’s Lee Child’s Five Favorite Things on page 13.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Amanda, we need to talk about this. Okay.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Lee Child’s Five Favorite Things:

>> Rimowa roll-on luggage. I don’t travel quite as light as Reacher, but I get what I need in my Rimowa roll-on, which has supplanted my old Tumi in my affections [oops].

These are multi-thousand-dollar suitcases that he’s talking about. Tumi –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is several thousand. The cheapest Rimowa I could find retail was eleven-fifty? It was $1,150. If you get the more, like, like, more, like, expensive ones? And this is literally a thing that is going to get tossed around.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And…I – wow. So. The highest Rimowas that I found were $3,525. M’kay. Then
His Fabergé Agathon.

Amanda: Yeah, I saw Fabergé, and I’m like, Oof.

Sarah: And I was like, Oh, okay. So tell me you’re super fucking wealthy without telling me. The, the Fabergé Agathon available secondhand: $13,000. It’s a watch.

Amanda: Yeah. This –

Sarah: Next up –

Amanda: – list does not feel very Reacher of him, I will say. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh no. This is not – no. I mean, Reacher walks around with no luggage. Like, what does he have? Like, his passport and some cash.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: And a –

Amanda: That’s kind of it, yeah.

Sarah: That’s kind of it.

His Gibson EB-3; he owns six bass guitars. Great. And then finally:

>> The Artemide Tolomeo desk light. I have five in my apartment, and I love them.

This lamp has its own Wikipedia page.

Amanda: Yeah. This is –

Sarah: This lamp is –

Amanda: – crazy.

Sarah: – like, this is a lamp that gets named in Architectural Digest, and it basically looks like the lamp that’s in the beginning of the Pixar commercials? It looks like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – the Pixar lamp. It’s just a, like a desk lamp with arms. But it is very expensive. It’s, it’s – yeah. So Lee Child’s five favorite things are very expensive and say a lot.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And it’s wild because, does he not know the audience of this magazine? Like, is this how he just does interviews generally? Like, wow, okay, rich guy.

Amanda: Maybe he just doesn’t care! He’s like, Whatever.

Sarah: He probably – oh, of course he doesn’t. Whatever!

Amanda: One of my friends talks about how she does, like, a catch-up with her friends like every few months, and they –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – send around like a Google Form, essentially, so they don’t waste precious time going around the table and be like, Okay, what’s new with you for the last three months?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: It’s like, Oh, you bought a house? Drop the Zillow link so we can look at it beforehand. Like, you know, people submit like a dossier of stuff. And at the end of the year they do sort of like an Oprah’s Favorite Things list of, like, What was your favorite, like, skincare product that you use? What was your favorite book this year? What was your favorite, like, restaurant or movie?

Sarah: Oh, that’s so smart!

Amanda: So, like, they do, like, a cute little personal Best Of list that everyone contributes to. And I think that’s cute. But they’re not recommending thirteen-thousand-dollar watches, right? They’re like normal people.

Sarah: I love that idea so much, because I am always the – I was just thinking about this – I am always the person who sends around the links to the things that we talked about. Like, Oh, hey, I told you about this on Poshmark: here’s an example. Or I sent you this web- –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I mentioned this website: here it is. Like, I’m always the person who follows up with the link because I want that information. I love the idea of having a Google Form that creates a little shopping list? That’s so clever!

But of course we have had our dude article – check!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The dude article has happened.

Amanda: I mean, and they exceed the dude article quota in this one, in my opinion.

Sarah: They really do.

You know who’s back in this issue?

Together: Flavia!

Amanda: Yeah, can’t get –

Sarah: Flavia, we got a Flavia!

Amanda: – can’t get rid of her.

Sarah: Cannot get rid of her. This is actually kind of cool. So she starts off about, you know, summer hot, her constitution, one must fan oneself, blah-blah-blah. So.

>> Harlequin’s people have come around to the same way of thinking. Who needs a wispy cover model when such real-life manly pulchritude is on display right in one’s backyard?

Now, I want to remind everybody this is 2007? This is the peak –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – of what was termed heroin chic. The models were all really thin, and this damaged the psyches of many people who were teenagers in this decade. And me. I was a, I was in my twenties, but it still sucked.

>> Harlequin has become dissatisfied with the thin, boyish cover models provided by modeling agencies, so they held a romance open casting call in Toronto to, for “real men” –

Boooo.

>> – to grace their covers. Could this more, could this move herald the return to beefier, more grown-up male models? Flavia can only hope so.

Gender essentialism and, and body shaming notwithstanding, I went to visit Harlequin. I was in Toronto, and while I was there, I was invited to visit the Harlequin offices and then have some, you know, have a hangout with some of the people I knew online from working with Harlequin. They had just done this, this open casting call and photo shoot? They showed me so many proof sheets. Like maybe twenty-five to thirty different covers in little blocks on hundreds of sheets of photo paper? They had paramedics, firefighters, muscly guys who, like, work in construction. And because the firefighter and the, like, the, the blue-collar affect is so popular in Harlequin, eventually a lot of these guys started bringing their own equipment? So they’re all just wearing their own equipment shirtless.

Amanda: Their stuff; their, like, work gear.

Sarah: Work! I’m like, This – okay, first of all, sir, this is probably tax deductible for you, but also they got paid to just put on their work gear and pose. And so there was a period of time when all of the covers were just regular-degular Canadian dudes on the cover. So that was a def- – I remember the outcome of that, and it was very successful. ‘Cause, I mean, they were right! What was considered a model at that time by a modeling agency was not the look that you wanted on the cover of a –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah:  – off a romance, of a romance novel. It was very young and very thin and not what we think of. So I love when I’m like, Oh, I remember that! That, it also makes me feel really old, but that’s fine.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That happens.

If you are reading the full issue, if you are in the Patreon, you have the full PDF scan – I promise I won’t forget to put the issue in the Patreon this time – there are three pages, page 23, 24, and 25 where they tell you all of the RT Book Reviews Award winners. So if you want to see –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – what the top books were for all of the, all of the winners, they have already announced it. The, the, the award ceremony hasn’t happened yet, but there are all of these genres in the best book of 2006, sorry, 2007. For example, Best Chick Lit was Stupid and Contagious by Caprice Crane, and I feel like stupid and contagious could be used in a lot of settings.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Currently. Like social media: stupid and contagious.

And then on page 30, the second –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – question – so this is an interview with, titled “Handy Manny,” and it is with a debut author whose first book, The Manny – so a male nanny – was coming out.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And this person was also an, a contributing editor and an NBC news producer, so that sort of ancillary to TV celebrity, perfect for RT. This is Holly Peterson. Second question:

>> Is having a manny, a nail man, a male nanny, really a trend in the social circles you describe?

Y’all are not going to believe this answer, by the way.

>> Many women in my neck of the woods hire mannies alongside their other staff members: cooks, nannies, housekeepers, and drivers.

So she clearly hangs out with Lee Child.

>> Although as I’ve researched the phenomenon, I found that mannies are becoming more common in all income groups. Last summer, I watched my kids with their male camp counselor and saw the gleam in their eyes. I tentatively asked him if he had a winter job, and when he said no, I hired him on the spot. He messes up the house, puts his dirty shoes on the sofa, and forgets to tell me everything, but my kids adore him, so he’s worth it most of the time.

Are you kidding me right now? Oh my God. What? Are you serious right now? You’re paying somebody to act like that and not tell you –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and not do their job well? Also, I know people who have been male nannies? That, they would be so pissed – [laughs] – if that was who they were –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – like, working with? [Gasps] I was shocked –

Amanda: So –

Sarah: – by this. This does not make you look great, my friend.

Amanda: – I had to google this woman after I read the last question, which is:

>> Do you have any tips for today’s harried working women about juggling all of life’s duties?

And this was her response:

>> I work three days at Newsweek and try to write my books in the library on my days off.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: >> I have enough flexibility with both book and magazine writing that I can pick up my kids two days a week after school. One piece of advice that really, really works for my family: Special time. Every week, each of my three kids gets some Special time with me. We usually go to the corner pastry shop and get chocolate mousse and tea. Special time can last thirty to ninety minutes, and my kids don’t seem to notice the difference. They feel comforted all week knowing they are getting some time with me alone. I highly recommend it. And remember, you have to leave the house during Special time or the other kids barge in.

So I was like, wow, this felt, feels very rich.

Sarah: I work three days a week at Newsweek and write my books in the library on my days off? Wooow.

Amanda: Yeah. So I googled Holly Peterson.

Sarah: I’m not surprised.

Amanda: Her father was an investment banker who served as the US Secretary of Commerce under Nixon. And her stepmother is the co-creator of Sesame Street. And her stepfather is a partner at a publishing company. She also married an investment banker. So –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – you know, not everyone has the same twenty-four hours! Yeah. Sounds like this woman is able to spend two days a week in a library working on her book.

Sarah: And, and spending all of this time at the corner pastry shop with her children. Now, having indiv- –

Amanda: But only thirty to ninety minutes at a time.

Sarah: Only thirty to ninety minutes; let’s not get crazy here.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And you know, what’s really funny is that, like, that’s actually really good parenting advice? Like, if you have multiples, make sure you do one-on-one time.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I, one of my friends who has triplets, each triplet has their own day. So it’s like that kid’s name’s day, and that day they get to plan something with their parents, just them. Because they’re triplets, they share a birthday, but, you know, your birthday is, is like the day you were born; it’s about you. And so – I think this was probably common advice with the multiples groups that they were in – each child has a different day on the calendar that’s their day, and then that day is the day that they get to choose, like, do they want to do something with everybody? Do they just want to go with mom? Do they want to go with mom and dad? Like, what’s the deal? What are we doing? And I think that’s real, actually really good advice? It, you know, teaches your kids that they have time one-on-one with you and that they have an individual relationship with you? But wow, this person’s super wealthy, huh?

Amanda: And then –

Sarah: [Gasps]

Amanda: – on page 31, there is –

Sarah: Ah!

Amanda: – an interview with Yasmine Galenorn, who is coming out with a new paranormal romance series with witches. (I think I read this series when it came out.) But she’s got her author photo, and –

Sarah: It’s exquisite.

Amanda: – I love this.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Because she’s got, like, this dark, black hair; it’s, like, wavy. It looks like she’s wearing maybe some, like, reddish velvety top, but she’s got, like, a crystal ball that she’s holding in her hands like right under her chin. She’s got, like, a dark lip, and, like, what a vibe for an author photo, honestly.

Sarah: Such a vibe.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And she looks good! Like, I love the dark red top she’s wearing?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: She’s showing some of her tattoos. I mean, that’s a –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – great author photo. You are right. This is – what a vibe.

Amanda: What a vibe!

Sarah: What a vibe.

Amanda: There’s page, it’s actually page 36 of the PDF. It’s another dude! [Laughs] And they’re talking about sort of like how –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – how you get started writing; it’s like a writing workshop. And one of the suggestions is issues.

>> What issues push your buttons? Robert Ludlum once said, I think arresting fiction is written out of a sense of outrage. Outrage is a great emotion for a writer. So start an issues list. Yours might include abortion, environment, gun control, presidential politics, talk shows, people who, or people who yak on cell phones while doing eighty miles per hour in a school zone.

Like, this is cuckoo advice.

Sarah: Why are we writing an, a, a romance about presidential politics, talk shows, and, and gun control? Like –

Amanda: Like, none of these work if what you’re writing has nothing to do with these.

Sarah: Where are the outrage romances, the romances that are written with outrage? Do you know where those are? I’m trying to think. Like, Hench –

Amanda: I can name a few romance –

Sarah: – is an angry book. Yeah?

Amanda: Well, like, I feel like there have been romances that are written to make people outraged. Like I –

Sarah: Oh.

Amanda: I think of, like, what is it –

Sarah: Oh yeah. Rage bait!

Amanda: – Purple, Purple State, the one that just came out –

Sarah: Oh yeah, rage bait!

Amanda: – earlier this year or last year?

Sarah: Rage bait.

Amanda: But I’m like, what the fuck is this advice?

Sarah: This is bonkers advice, really.

Amanda: Right?

Sarah: Because it, it’s, it’s, it’s writing advice, but it’s not relevant to anyone in this magazine who’s reading about, or read, wants to read about writing romance!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Also, his big, this whole article is about getting ideas?

>> First, get a great idea. Second, write it for all it’s worth.

Wooow.

Amanda: Write your great idea. Yeah.

Sarah: Wow, that’s super helpful. Okay! Sure.

On page 38, there is an announcement of a new blog! And it was one that I really loved. I Heart Harlequin Presents was just devoted to Harlequin Presents, and if you think, Wow, can you make a blog out of Harlequin Presents? Oh yes, you can.

>> They have insights from authors, editors, and fans, with recent posts examining the appeal of the alpha hero and the popularity of secret babies.

I loved I Heart Presents. I thought it was such a great site, and I loved that they got like a little plug for their arrival on the blogging scene. ‘Cause this is 2007; this is, everybody had a blog, and their blogs had blogs. And I just, Ohhh! I don’t, I don’t think they’re online anymore. I, I’m, I’m sorry, I Heart Pres- –

Amanda: I don’t think so either.

Sarah: – I Heart Harlequin Presents. I’m nearly certain I googled this, but – yeah, it’s, it’s not there anymore. It’s very sad. Another blog has bitten the dust. Cheers to you. That always makes me sad.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: So you wanted to look at page 53, because you have –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – good taste.

Amanda: Well, like, you know, some of the ads, most of the ads so far have been normal. Got some normies.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And I was really worr- –

Sarah: Got some Betty Spaghetties –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – got some chests. Yeah.

Amanda: I was worried we wouldn’t get any weird covers.

Sarah: I know!

Amanda: But on page 53, of course Samhain, always delivering. And I think there are more from Samhain as you go through, or at least smaller indie pubs –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – that really come through with some weirdo covers. Like, there’s one called Chameleon, and it’s got a woman in bra and panties, sort of like taking off a button-down shirt, and she’s got artfully tousled hair. But she’s glaring at a man in the foreground who does appear to be naked. I don’t see any pants on him. You do see the start of a butt cheek, though. So.

Sarah: The start of a butt cheek. There is a, a hint of flank.

Amanda: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah: There is a hint of flank.

Amanda: I was like, Yeah, finally some weird covers.

Sarah: Yeess! That’s why we’re here.

Speaking of, on page 65, we’ve got more weird covers.

Amanda: Hell yeah.

Sarah: So I wanted to call out one cover because we have three different versions to see here. So if, in the document –

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: – you see where it says Love Under Siege, one, two, three?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: So let’s start with one. If you click on one –

Amanda: Sure.

Sarah: – we have a color version of this cover. This is Ellora’s Cave. Given that this is a Sizzling Reads – also it kind of looks like Sizzling Beards? – all of these ads appear to be purchased by the author, because it’s mostly about –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – the book and the author’s website. Love Under Siege by Samantha Kane. In black and white, there’s just, there’s some arms and a back.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: In color, I’m still confused. Because there’s one guy who’s sitting with, he’s propped up on one arm, and he’s sitting with his –

Amanda: Yeah, one guy’s sitting.

Sarah: – with his legs bent, but his butt is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is, is blurred. Like somebody took a really big Micro-, Microsoft paint or Photoshop tool and blurred his whole ass, but the rest of him is in focus.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And there’s another guy sort of three-quarter turned with his arms up, and that’s just underarm and chest and flank. Both of these guys are naked.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then in the, in the back, back distance is this woman in a gown, posing with one leg out like Angelina Jolie on that Oscar’s carpet that one year?

Amanda: Oh my gosh, yes.

Sarah: But either they’re standing in front of a gate, or they’re standing in a forest of trees. It’s a, it’s very strange, and it’s very sepia. So, okay, that’s cover number one.

Then I found cover number two, which was another Ellora’s Cave cover, but this is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – this is a sandwich, but the filling is on the outside. So it’s dude, dude, and chick, but it’s just chest –

Amanda: The filling is on the outside!

Sarah: The filling’s on the outside, and it’s just chest, chest. But the guy in the middle, because of the position of her head and arms, the guy in the middle, his head looks like it’s just been plopped in and it’s not correctly aligned with the rest of his body. Like, his head –

Amanda: Ooh, yeah!

Sarah: – looks kind of disembodied. Like, it’s, it’s kind of freaky just because of where his chest and his shoulder is? It looks wrong. So his head isn’t on straight. Apparently, Love Under Siege does that.

And then there’s the new cover, page three, or cover three.

Amanda: Yeah. Which is, you would not think is the same book.

Sarah: No. The first two covers that we described, or if you’re watching the video, you’ll be able to see them – did they suggest historical to you at all?

Amanda: No!

Sarah: Because they did not to me, but the new cover is historical, and they’re both fully clothed, and it looks, like, they look so –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – bored and sleepy. Like, the, this cover is an outlier. So funny. Nothing about this said historical. And now it’s like, Oh! Oh! Okay, that’s different!

>> Best friends and veterans of the Peninsular War, Phillip Neville and Jonathan Overton must convince Phillip’s shy, lush wife, Maggie, to accept Jonathan in a true marriage of three. Using all their powers of persuasion, including their growing passion for one another, the two men convince Maggie theirs is a love meant to be.

Okay, so first of all, it looks like that the teabags do touch in this book. And their growing passion for one another, Linda – was it Linda? I’ve already forgotten her name –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: She’s, she’s going to be really mad! She’s going to be mad –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – about this ad. Like, they’re just play-, RT is just playing with fire. Yes, it was Linda. She, they’re just playing with fire here! Like, their growing passion for one another? [Deep breath] Oh my goodness! Oh dear. Poor Linda.

Amanda: Yeah, that’s a way different cover.

Sarah: Isn’t that a way different? That’s a fa-, fascinating development. I would love to know the story behind that one.

On page 89, I know we know a lot about, about charity auctions. There’s, many genres have held auctions to raise money for many, many causes over the past few years, a lot of them driven by social media. One of the originals was Brenda Novak’s online auction to benefit diabetes research. So Brenda Novak’s son has diabetes and started doing an auction to raise money for pediatric diabetes research, and then I think later enlarged it to just all diabetes research. I think in the years that she ran this auction, I think she might have raised multiple millions of dollars, because authors – this was one of the biggest auctions there were. This was like Romancing the Vote in terms of, like, quilts and art and stuff. But everyone was donating something. And this was right when eBooks were sort of the big thing? People were donating e-readers packed with books! They, it was a huge auction. And then there would be, like, vacations and timeshares and spend a week at Disney on me!

This was one of the biggest auctions that happened every, I think it was every other year or every year. I don’t know when she stopped doing it, but the minute I saw this, it was like, Ohhh. Oh, nope, here it is! Diabetes fundraising. I started an annual online auction every May, and I did it for ten years. Hell yeah! Girlfriend, way to go.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I did, forgot about this. And I’m kind of bummed that I forgot about it? Like, this is something that happened, it was huge news every year. So fuck yeah, Brenda Novak. One of the first online auctions. And this was only the third in 2007.

On page 99, I have another cover comparison! Aren’t you excited?

Amanda: Oh my God, I saw, I saw this cover, and I was going to mention it, but I saw that you had mentioned it, because this woman’s neck.

Sarah: Tell me about this cover, ‘cause I was like, Oh, this is very Betty Spaghetty.

Amanda: It is a very Betty Spaghetty cover. So it’s an illustrated cover. It’s got like a tanned baseball player in a red and white jersey, and he’s got his arm out to catch a ball with a mitt, but he’s also wrapping his arms around a woman. The woman is facing away from us, ‘cause they’re presumably kissing, but she’s tall and got a high blonde ponytail, and she’s got denim shorts.

Sarah: Like on the top of her head; like, it goes up –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: -and then it goes down.

Amanda: And she’s got, like, denim shorts on with, like, hearts on the butt, and like a blue crop tank top. But her neck –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – is so skinny. It is the skinniest part of her body. She’s got a very long torso. But this – like, his neck is probably like four or five times the thickness of her neck. And I worry –

Sarah: Easily.

Amanda: – I feel like it’s the tale of, like, the girl with the green ribbon, where her head is going to, like, topple off; you know what I mean?

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: You could use your thumb to just pop her head off of her neck, her neck is so thin.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And this is a very Betty Spaghetty cover. This is one of those covers where the, where the woman is just really stretched out and unrealistically thin. But if you look, that, so that’s, that’s cover number one. If you look at cover number two, it is very different.

Amanda: Okay. Oh, two. That’s a Jaci Burton cover if I’ve ever seen one.

Sarah: [Laughs] That is a Jaci Burton cover. That is a close-up of a sweaty chest with just the, the, the lips and chin. He’s got a baseball bat over one shoulder, his pants are low, and there’s a, like a faded picture of a stadium behind him. This is a Jaci Burton Perfect Play-style cover. This is clearly a Burton-esque cover. And it’s much better than the other one, let’s be real.

And then on page 105, we have Master of Dragons by Angela Knight, and all I could think of was that tattoo had to hurt so fucking much. It is dead center on his sternum and covering, like, a little bit of his nipple.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, as someone who does not have a chest tattoo, I would assume –

Sarah: …as someone who doesn’t have a chest – I was like, What?!

Amanda: No, I do. There’s plenty of real estate there if I need to get a tattoo. I also –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Amanda: – like how he just looks confused of, like –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – Why am I here in this dungeon? How did I get here?

Sarah: He’s shirtless; he has a big dragon S-shaped tattoo right on his sternum; he’s got long hair and it’s blowing back; there’s the hilt of a sword. But he’s got his hands on his hips, and he’s sort of looking three-quarter off to the side. And this is the face of your parent when you’re having a slumber party, and you are just making way too much fucking noise at two in the morning. Someone comes downstairs from upstairs. They’ve got their hands on their hips, and they are just looking away like, Why am I even here? Why did I decide to do this slumber party? Why did I say yes to all these kids in my basement? Like, he just looks confused and fed up.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: But he’s the master of dragons, so maybe the dragons are having a slumber party!

Amanda: Maybe, and he’s like, Hey, you said you’d only invite five friends, and now there’s ten dragons in my basement having a slumber party.

Sarah: That’s a lot of dragons in one basement.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So you wanted to look at page 135.

Amanda: Yeah. In terms of more covers, 135 –

Sarah: Ohhh yes! Cris Anson, fuck yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. So there’s a sidebar ad, like Cris Anson for Ellora’s Cave Presents, and there’s a book called Dance of the Butterfly. And it is a woman from like underboob to probably like maybe mid-thigh? And she does not have on anything. In the corner is like, like a little gauzy piece of fabric, and then a butterfly right below her belly button? Belly button model!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: But if you actually look at the cover in color, you can kind of see where underwear was Photoshopped out. ‘Cause there is, like, a line of where fabric might have been.

Sarah: Oh my God, you’re totally right.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, that’s really funny. It’s right under the butterfly’s wing. There’s, like, a really faint line –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – where the panty, where the panties were!

Amanda: But also, yeah, ’cause she’s smooth like a Barbie doll down there.

Sarah: She is so smooth.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So very smooth. So wait, what is the top one? Dance of the Seven Veils?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Is that what that – oh, okay. Let, let’s – oh boy. I didn’t – oh – oh boy. So here’s Dance of the Seven Veils, which is also advertised on this page. If I saw this in a bookstore – excuse
me – I would be so fucking confused as to what I was looking at.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s somebody’s abdomen, and they’re doing, and they’re arching their back, and they’ve got like chiffon over them. And I think it’s somebody from just under the armpit to the flank. Oh, and there’s kind of a finger down on the bottom there. But this could be a, a, a leg, a thigh, a worm, a penis.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, this is so weird. Very weird cover.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This is going to be a fun visual aids. That’s my favorite.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And then the last thing I wanted to talk about is, is on page 139. There is a book in here called Nine Inches of Snow and the Ebony Princess.

Amanda: I mean that, that whole section is full of just question after question.

Sarah: Yes. Yes, very much so.

>> When a wealthy philanthropist is critically injured by a spiteful friend with benefits, only the kiss of a dedicated and empathic young nurse can bring him out of his coma.

So are the nine inches of snow, the coma, and the kissing is from the ebony princess, but if – I put the car, I put the color cover in the document. This is from Siren. All of the covers that I have put up of like left bread and his no ass –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and all of the other, like, really explicit covers, those were Siren covers. Siren was a gift. The only thing better was the early days of Ellora’s Cave when they used Poser, which was a 3D modeling software, and the –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – everyone looked like they were dead. But this is, this is a, this is a collage.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: There’s a giant shirtless white man whose body dissolves into a cold tree scene with a car parked in some snow. And then there’s a wolf to the left, and in the bottom is a picture of a Black woman sort of three-quarters turned. Because of the size difference, because she is so small and that chest is so big, kind of looks like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – a child.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: It’s kind of freaky. And we’ve had a problem with that recently on covers, too. Where a lot of the current releases, because of the height differential and what the heroine is wearing in the illustration, she looks like a child. You know, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – there was that one where they were holding a broom, but she’s wearing, I think she’s wearing, like, oversized – oh, she’s wearing a giant nightgown.

Amanda: She’s wearing a dress with Converse. It’s Maid for Each Other by Lynn Painter, yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, and she looks, she looks like a little girl! Yep.

So those were the ads and features from June 2007. Rampant homophobia notwithstanding –

Amanda: Yeah, sure!

Sarah: – what did you think?

Amanda: I mean, I’m a little sad that some of the weirdo covers weren’t in color. I do feel like the –

Sarah: I know.

Amanda: – the older issues with, like, those classic clinch covers and those bright colors, like, you know, the colors that were in cover aren’t as exciting in this issue. And then I wonder too if, like, the more salacious covers are in black and white for a reason, you know?

Sarah: Ohhh, that’s a good point!

Amanda: Like, not to, like, you know, censor them a little bit more, you know what I mean? Instead of being in full color. So that made me a little sad, that the color covers were like, all right, boring, whatever, Betty Spaghetty –

Sarah: I was just going to say that. We’ve had a lot –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – of issues, we’ve had a lot of – heh – issues. What – we do have a lot of issues – where all of the covers are the super-stretched-out, thin cartoon women? We had a bunch of those in a row where it was just that. And I, I like this variety, but this is a lot of black and white close-up male flank.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This is a lot of flank and booty.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This is a pretty good one!

Amanda: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I can’t tell if I preferred the reviews or the ads and features on this one. Maybe the reviews slightly more, I think? I think the ads and –

Sarah: Wow, it’s usually the other way around!

Amanda: Well, I feel like the ads and features were more, like, annoying. Like the homophobia, the dude articles, like –

Sarah: The writing advice that wasn’t –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – good. Like, that really wasn’t good.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. I, I had a lot of anger for the features –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and I had a lot of joy for the reviews. Like, there were books in there that I remembered, that I liked, that I, like, the website was in them! Like, I – and, and this was Chick Lit when Chick Lit was really silly. I just, it was very silly. But I remember –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – some of these books, and also the reviews brought us Sprunty G. Fulmore? And, and taxidermy appraisal? Like, it’s really hard to top that as a, a winner.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you tremendously to Amanda for hanging out with me in the time machine. Thank you for listening and hanging out with us. I do really love doing these episodes.

And I would love to know what you thought of this one, what you thought of that letter, but most importantly I need to know, what is your favorite cereals? Or what are your favorite cereals? It’s really hard to name just one. Is there any cereal that doesn’t exist anymore that you miss? And is it Honey Smacks? I would really love to know the answer to this.

You can find us on smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 741. You can find us on the Patreon if you’re in our community. But I would dearly love to know: favorite cereal? Does it exist anymore? Do you miss it? I want to know. Cereal’s one of my favorite things to talk and thinking, think about. I should – I mean, I could start a podcast about cereal, but I don’t have the time to do that. However, it would be great if I did, right? It’d be awesome.

I end every episode with a terrible joke. This joke comes from JFHobbit, and it’s so bad. Thank you.

Why isn’t holy water used in vaccines?

Give up? Why isn’t holy water used in vaccines?

Oh, wait, hang on a second. Hang on one moment. Hey, Adam?

Adam: [From another room] Yeah.

Sarah: Come here; I need you!

Why isn’t holy water used in a vaccine?

Adam: [From close by] Why?

Sarah: Because you can’t take the Lord’s name in vein. [Laughs]

Adam: Very nice!

Sarah: Thank you very, very much! I appreciate that. As you were.

On behalf of everyone here, including Adam – [laughs] – we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week. And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening! You’re welcome for talking!

[end of music]