540. Holiday Wishes with Carrie, Sneezy, Sandra, Claudia, Darlene Marshall, and Katherine

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 540 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books; I’m Sarah Wendell. We are still doing our year-end recaps. We’ve got holiday wishes, wins, and books. What more do you need, right? This week, Carrie, Sneezy, Sandra, Claudia, Darlene Marshall, and Katherine are joining me to send holiday wishes, year-end wins, and many, many books. So many books. Hold onto your holiday TBR; we’ve got a lot of books to talk about.

Hello and thank you to our Patreon community who, well, makes these episodes possible because you are in them! If you would like to support the show with a pledge of any amount, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Pledges start at one dollar, and Patreon members get bonus episodes, a Discord community, and the chance to be in episodes like these! If you are interested in joining, please do! Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

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Are you ready for holiday wishes and lots and lots and lots of good books? I mean, I am. On with the podcast, starting with Claudia.

[music]

Claudia: My holiday wishes for everyone – now, we have the What Ifs, which are, you know, world peace and all these nice, lovely things and the happy endings, so I know those are certainly not reasonable. What I would wish for everyone – this is kind of a funny one – I would wish for them a well curated social media stream, because I have somehow managed to have the most brilliantly curated Twitter; Instagram, which is my favorite place on Earth, ‘cause it’s visual; and TikTok. I find the most fabulous people; they in-, they, a lot of them are influencers, some of them are not; but when I scroll through on my social media, I don’t get stressed out. So I would wish that for everyone.

Sarah: That’s so lovely!

Claudia: It really is a break for me! I, I love, and I could sit there and flip through Instagram all day long, and it is very visual and I’m a visual person, so that is definitely – that and to just find the joy in every tiny thing you can find it in.

Sarah: Yeah.

Claudia: Whether anyone thinks you should be joyful about it or not.

Sarah: Agreed! I love the idea of wishing people a well curated social media feed that doesn’t stress them out. I completely understand that, ‘cause I caught myself getting all kinds of pissed off this morning, and I’m like, okay, you need to just not be here. Let’s, let’s go.

Claudia: Well, and I get very irritated. I understand the articles, and I’m always very mouthy about the, the, the other side of it is, we’ve got to get these kids off social media, and I’m like, yes, and that works just as well as telling them not to have sex.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Claudia: So how ‘bout instead we start educating them on, hey, have you seen this person? Hey, have you seen Alok V Menon? I’m having a bad name day with my fibromyalgia. Alok and I always remember. My trans folks; my nonbinary folks; my, on TikTok my, my gay teachers; the, the lesbians that are out there, you know, lesbi-ing it up and, and speaking wisdom and making bread and so –

Sarah: Folding laundry.

Claudia: Oh, folding laundry, and Greg from New Orleans, Find Your Joy; you know –

Sarah: Yeah!

Claudia: – Greg’s my favorite person on TikTok. There are positives out there, and I know there are because about three years ago I started finding these women that changed the way that, not only about how I looked at myself and my body, but how I perceived other people.

Sarah: Yeah.

Claudia: It, it changed my life. So when people are like, there’s nothing good on social media I’m like, I, I’ve got into many a discussion in my social, social work discussion boards about that.

Sarah: Yeah.

Claudia: It is worth what it is, but you have to put some work into making sure it is, yeah.

Sarah: Curating a social media feed to make you happy is a lovely, lovely wish.

So what book made you extremely happy this year? Book time!

Claudia: Okay. So I screenshot it last night. I almost said screenshat it last night; that’s a whole –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Claudia: There’s actually, it’s a genre; it’s a genre, a literal and a metaphorical genre: Black Girl Magic?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Claudia: And This Poison Heart by Kalynn Bayron?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Claudia: The second one is This Wicked Fate. The quote – and I’ve got a poster up on my wall; that’s why I’m looking up –

Sarah: The covers are so gorgeous, aren’t they?

Claudia: Oh my God! Whenever you hear a story about villainous women, you should ask who’s telling the story.

Sarah: Yes, so true.

Claudia: I go to YALLFest every year, so I, it’s not like I bury me under my TBR, and she was one of the ones, I believe, that was in my OwlCrate, and I was like, you know what? I’m going to go ahead and get this on Kindle, because I buy physical books because, you know, I have to, but I can’t read them anymore. I have to read Kindle.

Sarah: No, I can’t either. I have to make the text size as big as possible.

Claudia: Yep. And the black background with the white or the creamy white font is the best thing for your eyes ever.

Sarah: Oh, so nice. I even have my, my E Ink Kindle set to be dark screen.

Claudia: Oh!

Sarah: It’s very nice.

Claudia: But yeah, This Poison Heart, I loved it because she’s got, she’s got two lesbian moms, they move from the city, and they move out into this huge house that I could immediately, like, I saw it in my head.

Sarah: Yeah.

Claudia: I saw all of it in my head.

And the second one that I read – I’m, I’m going to, I’m going to pick two because I probably have eighty – Blood Like Magic by Liselle Sambury; the second one’s also come out. That series is brilliant because it combines technology with generational magic?

Sarah: Ooh, I love books like that.

Claudia: They’re both just really, and they’re both really active on social media. And they’re in that small group of authors that recommend one another, and that’s another danger: really good authors that recommend other authors?

So yeah, those are, that has been my jam this year. And then I found Maisie Dobbs, which is a seventeen-book series, which from September up until last week I read.

Sarah: I love a good, long series. Like, I did the same thing in the early pandemic with the Cadfael mysteries? Oh! They’re –

Claudia: Writing it down.

Sarah: – it’s so great. But just the idea of immersing yourself in a very faraway world for book after book is so soothing, isn’t it?

Claudia: It is! And you know, it’s funny, because I, I was almost done with Maisie Dobbs, and then there’s three or four sequels that are out, and I need to start this series, which I did, and I’m like Blood and Ash, I think it is?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Claudia: Which I got off of one of your Friday emails, thanks. You’re incorrigible. I, half my books are because of that email. If y’all don’t subscribe to that email, you’re crazy!

Sarah: [Laughs] Thank you!

Claudia: I have, I have accidentally found books through that! Like, I accidentally found the Charlotte Holmes series. So you were talk-, y’all were talking about some other series, and I typed it in and I’m like, wait, there’s a YA series? You know, and now three other people I know are obsessed with it. Y’all are, y’all are dangerous in quite a wonderful way.

Sarah: What’s your win for 2022?

Claudia: My win for 2022 is tiny conversations with people who matter on a daily basis. And that sounds kind of funny.

Sarah: I like that!

Claudia: I have, at any given point in time, I have like five different conversations open whether – I’ve got people to talk to on Instagram, people talk to me on Twitter, depending on where they “live” –

Sarah: Right, right, right.

Claudia: But I have several groups on Messenger. Two, my two Georgia girls, Heather and Kenna; we met each other through the Supernatural fandom, so they’re amazing human beings, and whenever I’m having a really shitty day Kenna sends me footage of her rooster Vengeance. [Laughs] He’s a fancy rooster!

Sarah: Ooh!

Claudia: Just all these different friends from all over the place that I legitimately could not get through the day without. The balance is, again, those small conversations with really amazing people. That’s been my win for 2022.

Sarah: Thank you! It’s been so nice to talk to you!

Claudia: It’s been nice to talk to you as well, and I will definitely, you’ll be getting stuff from me.

[music]

Sarah: Hello there!

Darlene Marshall: Hello!

Sarah: It’s been a long time! How are you?

Darlene: I feel like we, any of us now can say, well, I survived, and –

Sarah: Yeah, really.

Darlene: – that’s a good thing.

Sarah: Yeah, really.

Darlene: Yeah!

Sarah: Right.

Darlene: So thank God we’re all doing well and vaxxed out the wazoo, and everybody’s doing okay, and that’s the important thing as we close out this year.

Sarah: That’s very true. So this is pretty simple. I have four questions. The first is really easy: if you would please introduce yourself, tell the people who will be listening who you are and what you do.

Darlene: Sure. My name is Darlene Marshall, and I write historical romance, mostly about pirates and privateers and smugglers, and as my tag line says, and the occasional possum. Many of my books are set in Florida in the 19th century, so I get to introduce people to the whole concept of Florida history, which strikes them as very strange, but – and we’ve always been a, a special place here. It, that hasn’t changed.

Sarah: That’s absolutely true.

So what are your holiday wishes for everyone this year?

Darlene: Well, we have added a new generation to our family since the last time I spoke with you, so I am now –

Sarah: Mazel tov!

Darlene: Thank you! I am officially a bubbe, and I –

Sarah: Ohhh –

Darlene: – yeah – and I am leaning into that crone-hood stage a lot more than I ever expected to. So I am loving that, and my wishes for the coming year of course will be that everyone should stay healthy and, and feel valued, which I think a lot of people during the pandemic, that was a hard thing to grasp ahold of.

Sarah: Yeah.

Darlene: We all need to, to feel like we matter, and I hope that many people going forward will feel that way, and that we’ll appreciate people more, particularly our frontline workers, the healthcare workers, the delivery people, the ones who show up to do the jobs. They’re really important.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Darlene: So.

Sarah: I like that so much, and congratulations!

Darlene: Thank you! Thank you.

Sarah: That is so exciting.

Darlene: He is, of course, the world’s cutest grandbaby. My –

Sarah: I have no doubt!

Darlene: Yeah, my son and his husband, when they called and told us, we were over the moon, so it’s just been one adventure after another.

Sarah: That is so –

Darlene: It’s been so much fun.

Sarah: – so great! Ah!

Darlene: Yeah! Yeah!

Sarah: All right, what was a book – and I will say that everyone I’ve spoken to has brought more than one, so if you couldn’t choose one, that’s okay. What was a book that really made you happy this year?

Darlene: Well, I, I tried to be good, and I did narrow it down to one, which coincidentally I just finished this weekend. It blew me away, but it was published in 2022 –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Darlene: – and it’s Nettle & Bone –

Sarah: Yes.

Darlene: – by T. Kingfisher. I have become – well, T. Kingfisher for me now is an auto-buy, and, and I just love their work. Anything that they’ve published I’ve really enjoyed, but this one in particular, I just loved everything about it: the banter, the characters, the mythology, the underlying plot of women who believe they don’t have agency and discover that they do in, in the most dramatic and wonderful ways. So I highly recommend Nettle & Bone.

And if I get to recommend more than one, now that we’re doing the whole crone-hood thing, I also want to strongly recommend Killers of a Certain Age by Deanna Raybourn. It –

Sarah: I loved that book.

Darlene: – [laughs] – was so good. I mean, just so good. Starting with the premise that old women are invisible. I mean –

Sarah: Yes!

Darlene: – nobody pays attention to them, and so, literally, they get away with murder. And, and I loved every part of it. It was great characters, great writing, great story, and I’ve been recommending it to everybody I know who is of a certain age.

Sarah: I could not stop reading that book.

Darlene: Oh, me either! I stayed up so late.

Sarah: I, I was like, nobody, just nobody talk to me. I need – just no –

Darlene: [Laughs]

Sarah: – no talking. I’m – I could not stop reading it, and I loved the way that it flipped back and forth between the present day and then how they were recruited and their early cases so that at the end you realize how the past and present timelines are matching up? And in every case –

Darlene: Yes!

Sarah: – they’re underestimated because of what they look like.

Darlene: Right! It, it’s, it really brought home how awful it was and is!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Darlene: They were underestimated before because they were pretty women!

Sarah: Yep.

Darlene: And so nobody took them seriously. The guys were always in charge. And now they’re underestimated because they’re old women –

Sarah: Yeah.

Darlene: – and nobody takes them seriously.

Sarah: Nope.

Darlene: And all of it, the way it just all melded together at the end, I loved every part of it. I thought it was fabulous, and I’d love to see it made into a good movie. And –

Sarah: Yes! Oh my gosh.

Darlene: Yeah. So many great actresses could be in that.

Sarah: I imagine that the absolute scrum between actresses to play those roles would be something to see.

Darlene: Ah!

Sarah: I mean, that is such a fan-casting exercise, just thinking about all of the different women who would just kill in those roles, literally and figuratively.

Darlene: Literally! [Laughs] It would be fun to watch, and of course everyone says Helen Mirren would probably be at the top of the list, but I could also see Sally Fields, I could see Julia Roberts, I could see all kinds of people who would be great in that –

Sarah: Sally Fields!

Darlene: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah! Oh –

Darlene: Yeah!

Sarah: And then also –

Darlene: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Oh! You know who else would be good? Jaclyn Smith from Charlie’s Angels.

Darlene: Yes! Yes.

Sarah: Oh, that would be good! That would be so good! I, I really hope that gets optioned.

Darlene: And Gee-, Geena Davis!

Sarah: Yes!

Darlene: Geena Davis – we could spend all afternoon doing this.

Sarah: We could do this all day, honestly. This is great. Oh my gosh, and, and –

Darlene: Yeah.

Sarah: – Viola Davis –

Darlene: Yeah.

Sarah: – would be incredible. I mean – okay, I could, I could fan-cast this. And I’m not usually into fan-casting? This is, this is –

Darlene: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – what I’m going to think about when I can’t sleep and I need to make a list? I’m just going to cast this book; that’s what I’m going to do. Thank you for that. [Laughs]

Darlene: Oh, my pleasure. I’ve planted kind of a new earworm for you, so enjoy.

Sarah: Excellent. So what was a win for you in 2022?

Darlene: I found it very difficult to write during COVID, and that was a disaster for me, but fortunately in 2022 my books have been published in France –

Sarah: Ooh!

Darlene: – and – yes! – and there are a whole lot of French readers all over the world, so now I have readers in Vietnam, in Canada, in Africa, in the Caribbean, wherever – and of course in Europe.

Sarah: Right.

Darlene: And the French sales really motivated me to get back into it, and so I finished a novella, which I am waiting to publish, and I am about sixty thousand words into my ninth novel, and I think that’s going to be the start of a new series, so 2022, a win for me was getting back into my writing and finding my groove there.

Sarah: That’s so fantastic! Congratulations!

Darlene: Thank you! Thank you.

Sarah: How cool to be published in so many places!

Darlene: Oh, it is so much fun! Somebody once said foreign rights publication, ‘cause you’ve already done all the work –

Sarah: Yeah!

Darlene: – foreign rights publications are kind of like a smiling stranger speaking a language you don’t know coming up to you and shoving money in your pockets.

Sarah: Yeah, pretty much.

Darlene: Be- – yeah! And it’s wonderful. So, and I, I have loved seeing reviews from around the world and communicating with fans of my books in another language, and I started Duolingo so I could at least, you know, say a few things, and it’s been a real growth year for me, and I love that.

Sarah: That is –

Darlene: I, I’m feeling good about that.

Sarah: – outstanding. Oh, I’m so happy for you!

Darlene: Thank you. Thank you.

Sarah: Thank you so much for doing this; I really appreciate it. Thank you for being part of my, my year-end celebration.

Darlene: I’m enjoying it, and I always like to see the book recommendations on SBTB and, you know, just the idea of all of us being in this, like, huge, international, casual book club –

Sarah: Yeah!

Darlene: – where we get to say, ooh! Have you read this yet? Have you read this? If you like this, you’re going to love this. That is so enjoyable! So.

Sarah: It really is. It’s one of the most lovely communities. I’m so honored that people hang out with me every day. They are so lovely.

Darlene: It is wonderful.

Sarah: So thank you so much. Happy Hanukkah and Happy New Year!

Darlene: Thank you. Thank you very much, and you also, and Happy Hanukkah to your family and Happy Holidays to everybody who’s tuning in to listen.

Sarah: Thank you.

Darlene: You take care of yourself.

Sarah: Right back at you.

[music]

Sneezy: So I’m Sneezy, a Canadian smut demon here in boba land.

Carrie: Yeah! I’m Carrie, and I’m from Sacramento, California.

Sarah: All right, so we have many time zones in this conversation, many, many time zones. Sneezy, let’s start with you. What are your holiday wishes for everyone?

Sneezy: Okay. So even my wishes are long. I, I really thought about this one. So I wish everybody peace and joy, and I wish everybody would let go of the things that wreck your peace, such as moose in your house.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sneezy: Get the moose out; it’ll be fine. And –

Sarah: All of the Canadians who are listening are like, why would you have a moose in your house? Have you seen how big they are?

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Carrie: They’re really mean! Like, they’ll kill you.

Sneezy: What was that?

Sarah: They’re very mean!

Sneezy: Yes!

Carrie: Yes! They’ll kill you. They’ll kick you to death. They’re mean little bastards.

Sneezy: I hope everybody allows themselves to feel the wealth of love they feel for the people in their lives. Don’t hold back. This is coming from a neurodivergent. If you feel like you love bomb people, like, check in with yourself, check in with them, have boundaries; that’s all good. But let yourself love people as much as you do. Don’t, don’t, don’t hold back; that’s important. And believe in yourself that you have the resiliency and the capability to achieve what you need and want.

Sarah: Carrie, what about you? What are your holiday wishes for everyone?

Carrie: Well, I don’t want to follow that.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: That was really beautiful.

Sarah: I mean, there was a, mu-, there was a moose and beautiful sentiments. What’s, what could possibly go wrong?

Carrie: So, you know, like, I thought about the usual, right, health and happiness and peace and joy and those things, because it’s very important and I do wish them for people, but I think if I had to come up with an individual thing I would say, I wish for everybody to be kind to themselves.

Sarah: And have more patience for yourself.

Sneezy, let’s start with you: what are some book – or, or books; I, I understand the, I understand the task that I have set before you – what are some ta-, some books –

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Sarah: – book, bookuses – that have made you really happy this year?

Sneezy: It’s not, it’s not the book that made me happiest per se, but – ‘cause it’s a really difficult book for me to get through – I’m, I think, only at the beginning of chapter two right now, but it is certainly the most important book for me this year, and that has been Women with Attention Deficit Disorder by Sari Solden, and Susan mentioned it in, I think, a Whatcha Reading? post, and that’s how I started looking into it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – and it has been the most important book because its, the, the stories and the things the book goes over really describe my experience being undiagnosed as a person socialized as a femme in, you know, now, now in adulthood and, and only recently started thinking about ADHD maybe like a couple years ago. Just sort of the, the feeling of, like, why can’t I get my life together? I thought I was smart; everyone says I’m smart. Why, why do I not get anything done? It must be a problem with me. Like, those stories are so hard for me to listen through, but they really allowed me to advocate for myself when I was seeking my ADHD diagnosis. It, it’s one of those things where it has been such a huge barrier in my life, and I need to, like, really get on it –

Sarah: Was all of this in English –

Sneezy: – but yeah.

Sarah: – or did you have to do this in another language?

Sneezy: Luckily I can speak Chinese well.

Sarah: So this was in Chinese.

Sneezy: Yes.

Sarah: You went to get an assessment in Chinese, which is already very difficult. Having somebody assess you is very difficult, and you went through this whole process –

Sneezy: Yeah.

Sarah: – in Chinese.

Sneezy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sarah: I will quote you what my husband always says to me: “Give yourself some fucking credit.”

Sneezy: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s hard –

Carrie: No shit.

Sarah: – that is hard. You need to give yourself a bushel of credit, because that was so hard, and you did it. Good on you.

Sneezy: Thank you!

Sarah: You’re welcome!

Sneezy: You know what I thought –

Sarah: Fucking A!

Carrie: It’s not like – is it, is it Cantonese or, or Mandarin or, or what –

Sneezy: Mandarin.

Carrie: Mandarin? It’s not like you’re, you’re speaking fluent Mandarin to people who are speaking fluent Mandarin about how to catch the bus and how their day was and how the weather –

Sarah: And where the bathroom is, yeah!

Carrie: Where the exact shading of the word matters!

Sarah: Absolutely true.

Carrie: Oh my God! Give yourself –

Sarah: Give yourself some fucking credit!

Carrie: Yes!

Sneezy: Thank you!

Sarah: So good job!

Sneezy: Okay. Thanks very much!

Sarah: Carrie, what about you? What is a book that made you happy this year? Unless, unless, Sneezy, you have another book to mention, which is cool.

Sneezy: Oh. This one’s, this one’s a webtoon.

Sarah: That’s fine!

Sneezy: It’s A Whirlwind, A Whirlwind Campus Affair on Line Webtoon or Naver Webtoon, depending on where you are in the world. I, I didn’t think I would have the bandwidth for, like, YA, New Adult stories, but turns out I really fucking do!

[Laughter]

Sneezy: Like, they’re so cute, and they’re making all these, like, smush-muffin mistakes, and there’s this, like – okay, so I should, I should say what the story’s about: so it’s about a returning student to campus, and she has been accused of being the Other Woman with this professor.

Sarah: Ugh!

Sneezy: Which obviously we, alarm bells are already ringing –

Sarah: Ugh!

Sneezy: – and the said professor, you know, wrote a confession note, and the said professor, like, lied to her, obviously, about not having a family and a child and, you know, possibly even stole her ideas ‘cause he’s an Arts professor. It’s just like, around that time his art was, like, really taking off! What a shame! And it’s like, oh, lo and behold, this student is really fucking good at art.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Sneezy: So that, that, that’s a, that’s speculation on my part, and it’s pop-, is a popular one in the comments. If you’ve ever read manga there’s, like, a lot of, like, visual cues, like there’s this one character who’s a café owner and also a part-time model for, for art classes, and he just, he’s always sparkling; he’s just always dazzling! [Laughs] It’s one of the few webtoons I know that does not have just, like, one shape for all the characters. It actually has like a slightly chubbier character, which is, like, still, if, if, like, to North American audiences would still just be like still straight sized –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – right, but, like, that’s really a big fucking deal in webtoons. Like, that rarely happens.

Sarah: Carrie, what about you? What are some books that made you very happy this year?

Carrie: [Laughs evilly] I am so happy that people before me paved the important ground of cheating and bringing multiple books to the table.

So I have a couple. One of them is – I don’t know so much if these books made me happy as that they were really challenging and they were really important to me, and those were two books by Devon Price: Laziness Does Not Exist, which, Sarah, you told me about, and then I forgot you told me about it, and Unmasking Autism, and they were really helpful for me with understanding the needs of my family members? But there was also a huge crossover in applicability to chronic pain, even though that wasn’t the topic of the books.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Carrie: A little with Laziness Does Not Exist; he talked about that a little bit more specifically. But, but generally speaking, I would feel really resistant about something in the book. Even the title of Laziness Does Not Exist, man, that bugged me. I really dig in, and then I realized that it was addressing something really specifically that I was struggling with, so, you know, I thought I was reading about other people, but surprise.

Sarah: Nope.

Carrie: So those were really important books to me this year.

And then I have two fantasy novels that were completely different and completely different from each other, and one was When Women Were Dragons by Kelly Barnhill? Oh my God, it made me so happy. And it as really – I wrote a review about it, but it was very challenging to review because it also broke my heart over and over again. Oh my God, it was really painful, but it also made me really happy –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – and because I don’t want to put in spoilers it was really difficult for me to articulate how something that had all these painful moments – they weren’t trauma porn, but they were definitely things that, you know – and a lot of them were, like, microagressions characters would run into, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: And it was so, oh my God, it was so frustrating, but I could see, it was so relatable and I could see, like, my mother’s generation and my grandmother’s generation –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – and my generation all reflected in it, and the way that it subverted certain expectations –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – was really thrilling. And the way that it brought a sense of empowerment in a way for the main character that I had not expected from the very beginning of the book – I kind of thought things would turn out a certain way, right –

Sarah: Right.

Carrie: – but it really validated the idea of multiple roads to a good life, multiple definitions –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – of what happiness could look like, so that it was just thrilling in, like, the real sense of the word thrilling: not like an action movie is thrilling ‘cause it’s exciting, but, but where you just are thrilled!

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: I loved it.

And now for a less challenging book that’s just a warm, cozy hug all the way through is Legends & Lattes by Travis Baltree – wait, is it – sorry, Baldree. Sorry. Legends & Lattes has a super cute cover, and everyone was really excited about it. I would say that if you’re the type of person who’s going to pick up a book with that title and that cover, you will not be disappointed by the contents, because the, it’s very reflective of what’s actually in the book. It’s just warm and snuggly and –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: But also very inventive in taking these sort of fantasy world tropes that a lot of people who love fantasy are very well versed in and doing something totally different with them.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Carrie: Nothing was a surprise like, oh my God! There’s just like a very subtle but enjoyable, different way to read about these characters that we’ve read about in different contexts before.

Sarah: We talk a lot –

Carrie: It’s about –

Sarah: – about covers, too, right; like, on the site we talk a lot –

Carrie: Yeah.

Sarah: – about covers?

Carrie: And this was a really great cover, and one of the things –

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: – to love about the cover is, again, if you like the cover, you will like the book.

Sarah: Yes. ‘Cause the cover communicates exactly what it is!

Carrie: Yes! Yes! So the, the main character is an orc who is retiring from her life as an adventurer/mercenary and is opening a coffee shop in a city where nobody knows what coffee is. It’s a gnomish invention, in case you’re wondering, from those gnomes. And –

Sarah: Fair.

Carrie: – and so, so she’s opening this coffee shop, and in the process, right, you have home renovation happiness and you have competence happiness; everybody’s very good at what they do. You have a lot of found family, which is one of my big, big catnip tropes, and you also have kind of a more subtler found family in the sense that a good coffee shop is sort of a gathering place for, for community?

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: So there’s  like the, the main character group of found family and then the larger extended community building feeling of them having a central place to hang out at. And I adored it. I absolutely adored it. It was exactly what I needed.

If your preference is reading books about the raiding party adventurers doing raiding party things, then you might not like it because there’s a minimum of that kind of thing. There’s a little at the beginning, but mostly, you know, it’s about, like, you know, you have to, like, reroof the building ‘cause it’s really crappy and in bad repair, and that takes a lot of time.

Sarah: If you are the type of person who likes the fanfic of what happens after the big battle –

Carrie: Yeah, I love that stuff.

Sarah: – this is exactly your jam.

Carrie: Exactly.

Sarah: There’s so much story in the mundane, right? Like, there’s so much story to be told in mundane moments.

Carrie: And, you know, my other, my other picks, the Devon Price books and the When Women Were Dragons, they made me really happy, but they were also really challenging –

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: – and then you felt a big payoff.

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: This was not very challenging; you just relax and just let it wash over you, only you’re going to feel really hungry because there’s cinnamon rolls –

Sarah: Yeah, a lot of pastry.

Carrie: – and some – it’s a total cinnamon roll of a book, and it has cinnamon rolls in the book, so –

Sarah: Which can only be deliberate, right?

Carrie: Oh yes, I’m sure.

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Carrie: I don’t want to give away the whole book, but you can tell it was just squee from beginning to end.

Sarah: Carrie, what was a win for you in 2022?

Carrie: I really struggled with this question, Sarah. I, it was a real rollercoaster of a year.

Sarah: It has been a lot.

Carrie: It really was, and I started the year with one daughter, and I ended the year with two daughters, so that was exciting. And –

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Carrie: Yes, so I guess a win for me is the expansion of my family was really, really amazing and, and unbelievably wonderful. And then also the fact that, you know, both of my daughters are the same age? They’re three days apart.

Sarah: Oh!

Carrie: And they both graduated from high school, and they’re both kind of following these different academic paths, but they’re doing – getting to know them sort of more as adults –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – than as babies? Like, this is sort of a weird middle period where I think they would tell you that I should see them completely as adults, and I would say –

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Carrie: – you don’t need that evidence. It’s is a tricky time, but I can definitely see, you know, this transition happening to where they’re grownups, and my job is different, and my relationship with them is different.

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: Now, if I can manage to get all the way there, then that will be a great relationship.

Sarah: Yep.

Carrie: It’s an interesting period and, but definitely, like, the expansion of our family was a huge, huge win and really exciting.

Sarah: Nice! Sneezy, what about you? I know this has been a hard year for you. What was a win for you in 2022, amid a lot of loss?

Sneezy: It, it’s a shared loss with everyone.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sneezy: I, I guess you just made me think that, you know, it’s not, it’s not a personal win on my part, but just community, being part of a community and letting other people show up for you. It’s, it’s – 

Sarah: Yeah.

Sneezy: – it’s hard not to be the caretaker. I’m someone who feels like I failed when I’m not the caretaker from beginning to end.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: You know, it’s not just this year but also in like the, the past couple years, like even before the pandemic. I, I was someone who instead had to take a backseat –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – and, you know, had to not fix everything for everyone, had to recognize I can’t do that and that’s not my place –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – and I had to let other people show up for me. So read Devon Price book, ‘cause it’s, it’s really fucking good, obviously! [Laughs]

Sarah: Got another book rec for you: there’s a new book that’s come out from the Nap Bishop, Tricia Hersey, called Rest Is Resistance. That might be right up your street.

Sneezy: Yeah.

Sarah: Rest Is Resistance –

Sneezy: Thank you! Yes, I’m going to write that down right now.

Carrie: My hold is in transit from the library, and I am very excited about this.

Sarah: Oh yeah, that’s totally a winter break book for me.

Carrie: And you know, like, like, toxic stuff goes deep because the very first thing I thought when I saw it was, oh man, I should read that, and the very next thing I, thing I thought when I saw that was, but I probably don’t really qualify for that message; that’s probably for, like, other people.

Sarah: It’s a lot of toxic crap to unpack, right?

Carrie: Yeah. I get really stressed about Christmas and making everybody happy; I get very co-dependent and freaky about it, but I think a lot of times we see things like the holidays, right, for, somebody told me that for women in particular, and God help you if you’re a stay-at-home parent, but for any woman –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – holidays are our annual performance review in our head. That’s what we’re thinking.

Sarah: Oh shit, you’re so right!

Carrie: Such, it’s such garbage! It’s one of those things like, just choose not to be sad, right? I can see that that’s toxic garbage! I can see that it’s –

Sneezy: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – okay to buy cookies. Let the betting pool in the comments begin! Will I buy cookies or will I make cookies?

Sarah: Thank you guys so much for doing this, and thank you for being part of my, my end-of-the-year episode. It’s such a pleasure to connect across so many time zones?

Sneezy: Thank you for putting this together! And, like, I, I always enjoy these podcasts too and, like, talking about all of these things and seeing all of your faces. That made me super fucking happy. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yay!

[music]

Sandra: My name’s Sandra. I am located in the Bay Area in California.

Sarah: Nice! That’ll narrow it down; we’ll all come to your house for dinner.

Sandra: Oh my God!

Sarah: [Laughs] So what are your holiday wishes for everyone?

Sandra: My holiday wishes for everyone: I hope that everyone can find the community that they are seeking in 2023, and if you already have a really wonderful community that you’re really pleased with, then I hope that those relationships can deepen and strengthen in 2023.

Sarah: That’s really lovely. I completely agree with you: knowing who my people are, whether it’s the people I talk to on my phone or my neighbors or the people on the internet, it, it helps make really crappy days a lot better.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: All right. So what is a book or books that has made you happy this year?

Sandra: Okay, so the romance series that has made me really happy this year is the Arden St. Ives series by Alexis Hall. Just a quick little info about the series: the Arden St. Ives series is basically Fifty Shades of Grey, but if Ana had more of a personality and Christian wasn’t horrible and abusive, and if it were gay. That’s what the series is, and I love it so much. This isn’t the first time I’ve read it, but I’m not, I’m sure it won’t be the last either. On a surface level, I really love it because the main character Arden is just so fun to be around, and he’s so funny, and I feel like I laugh like every couple pages, and I read it on my Kindle in, like, large font.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sandra: So it’s just such a party – [laughs] – to read, and then on a deeper level, I feel like this is the case with a lot of Alexis Hall’s books? He shows the messiness of, like, being vulnerable with people and connecting and really, how, how does someone become your person? And he shows how messy that is, but also how beautiful it is!

Sarah: Yes.

Sandra: Because of the mess! And I feel like this series is a really great example of that, and it’s just so lovely to read, especially when I was feeling isolated, just to engage vicariously in, in the messiness and beauty of connecting with people.

Sarah: And Alexis Hall writes great dialogue.

Sandra: Yes.

Sarah: Like, on one hand –

Sandra: Seriously.

Sarah: – like, I read the dialogue, and on one hand I’m like, okay, I don’t know anyone who is this clever, but I would love to know all of these people ‘cause they are so funny!

Sandra: Fave!

Sarah: Right? Like –

Sandra: Literally I’m like, where is Arden? I need to find you!

Sarah: Like, I need to step up my game. I am nowhere near a scintillating Alexis Hall hero. Like, I need to just up my game, right?

Sandra: Yeah! And even in your head, I’m like, I feel like I don’t even think that many things!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sandra: Much less that many, like, incredibly witty, thoughtful things.

Sarah: Don’t even think that many things. I love the way Alexis Hall characters also talk to themselves?

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, that part is the most resonant with me. Whenever they’re giving themselves a hard time or they’re just like, yeah, of course you would say that, you jackass, only much more interesting the way I say it? The way they talk to themselves just adds so much to the character.

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: I think this is such a great choice, and well played, naming a whole series of three books as one. I’m very impressed.

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: I’m very impressed ‘cause everyone has found a way around this, and I’m just like, I’m fine with that.

All right, so what is a win for you in 2022?

Sandra: A win for me in 2022 has been finding and building more community?

Sarah: Yay! That’s hard when you’re an adult!

Sandra: Yes!

Sarah: It’s so stupidly hard!

Sandra: Yeah!

Sarah: Like, it’s annoying how hard it is!

Sandra: Yeah! And I, like, graduated college during the pandemic, and so –

Sarah: Ah!

Sandra: – you know, became a real adult during the pandemic and was, you know, wanting to build community and meet new people, especially ‘cause I’d moved, but I was being a lot safer COVID-wise than a lot of people my age, so that was very hard, and this year I felt a lot more comfortable, and so I’ve been able to just go full social butterfly, meet tons of people, and meet a number of people that I, I feel really lucky to have been able to meet and thrilled to be getting to know better, so I feel like that’s a big win in 2022.

Sarah: That is a really big win. Especially graduating from college during the pandemic? Like, all of these major events you’re supposed to have, like a graduation and a party and a final, like, let’s all have this one moment together and it’s all gone, and you’re all on Zoom. Yeah. It’s, it’s not the same as – I mean, I, I’ll be honest with you: I don’t, I don’t love gatherings with large groups of other people? Like, even in the Before Times, that was not my thing, but I have come to recognize more fully how important it is to have the moments where everyone who’s assembled agrees this is something that’s coming to an end, and we’re all here to acknowledge it. It’s, it’s not as, as maudlin as, say, a funeral, but it is marking an end, right? And when everyone is in –

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: – the same space acknowledging that that’s happening, it’s a way of giving yourself closure and a complete sort of narrative arc: this was my college, and now it is done. And missing all of that –

Sandra: Yeah!

Sarah: – is really disorienting.

Sandra: Yeah, totally. I also would like, I mean, did I really want to sweat in the sun in, like, a gown that was, you know, just a sack? But, like, being able to just kind of see everyone –

Sarah: Yeah!

Sandra: – for the last time in a while and say what you want to say and end it all. I mean, that just kind of didn’t happen ‘cause everyone went home and never came back.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: So yeah.

Sarah: And it’s, it’s –

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: – and it, it, it doesn’t really honor the community that you had.

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: ‘Cause you do form a community in college. I mean, one of the people I interviewed for –

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: – another episode is somebody I went to college with; we were talking about, you know, going to college many, many, many years ago. Many, many years ago.

Sandra: [Laughs]

Sarah: But it, it, it marks a time that has ended, so good on you for creating a new community!

Sandra: Yeah. I feel really lucky to have found people that I found here.

Sarah: That’s lovely! And so important and, like I said, so hard as an adult. It shouldn’t be as hard as it is, but it’s so hard!

Sandra: Yeah, totally. I feel like the way I engage in friendships has really changed after college, ‘cause it’s like, people are working so much more, you know? I thought I’d worked a lot in college, but, like, not as much as I do now!

Sarah: No!

Sandra: And, you know, then you get tired, and you have to be like, okay, I, one of my closest friends, I see her like every two weeks or so? And – or maybe even more than that? – and my best friend in college, like, I, we saw each other all the time –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Sandra: – but it’s like, I still have a deep connection because we’re making a commitment to, like, see each other, you know –

Sarah: Yes.

Sandra: – and that’s the, the thing that, that matters.

Sarah: That is absolutely the thing that matters.

Thank you so much for doing this. It’s been so lovely to chat with you!

Sandra: So lovely to meet you too, Sarah. I’m so glad, yeah, we could find the time.

Sarah: Oh, me too. I will, I will schedule these at any hour, just so I can get a chance to talk to everybody. Thank you so much, and have a wonderful holiday season and a very happy new year.

Sandra: Thank you! You too!

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you so much to Carrie and Sneezy, to Claudia, Sandra, Darlene Marshall, and Katherine for connecting with me. It is so much fun to put these together, and I hope you are enjoying these holiday vibes as well.

Katherine is joining us through the Patreon messaging portal. She was part of an episode I did about Heartstopper and how it really renovated her reading year. Her message is as follows:

“Engaging with Heartstopper in graphic novel, TV show, webtoon, and audiobook was a restart for me in 2022. Pandemic reading slump was pretty bad, and diving into this world got me reading again. I’m back! Devouring books and ripping through my TBR pile. I’m still a very enthusiastic fan of Heartstopper, but it’s more about loving romance in any form. I’m more open to different genres and mediums now. For sure, this is a win for me this year.”

Well done, Katherine, and thank you for sharing that!

I have a joke this week from Malaraa. Malaraa says a customer was wandering through the store and they shared a joke, so Malaraa had to share it with us, and now I’m sharing it with you! We have an entire jokes channel in the podcast Discord, and it is so much fun. All right, you ready? This joke is super bad! Grab a dentist; you’ll love this one.

Did you know a new study says you shouldn’t brush your teeth with your right hand anymore?

It’s true. You should use a toothbrush; it works much better.

[Laughs] I think I’m going to have to tell the dentist this because that’s so bad I love it! Thank you, Malaraa!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week with more holiday fun.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of gently festive music]