The Damned, the sequel to The Beautiful, is out, so Renee Ahdieh joins me again to talk about vampire romance, characters overcoming and rejecting toxic patriarchy, and the planning of an incredible virtual book tour. We talk about some of the themes in The Damned (no spoilers but if you haven’t read The Beautiful there are some details about the end) and about the development of a multi-night multi-author party that surrounded the book’s release. We also talk about makeup, cooking, Instant pot recipes, and books – it’s a well rounded conversation.
TW/CW: We mention briefly sexual assault and deeply awful Supreme Court confirmation hearings at minute 21:00, so if you’d like to skip that part, jump ahead one minute at 21:00.
What about you? What virtual gatherings have you attended or hosted? What really works for you? I’d love to know!
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You can find Renée Ahdieh on her website, ReneeAhdieh.com, on Twitter @Rahdieh, and on Instagram @ReneeAhdieh.
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Transcript
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[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello there. Thank you for inviting me into your eardrums again. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. This is episode number 415 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, and today I am talking with Renee Ahdieh. She was a guest in February for her first book, The Beautiful, and now the sequel, The Damned, is out. So we’re not only going to talk about vampire romance, but we’re also going to talk about a really interesting and pretty fricking amazing virtual book tour she put together. So many book events are now virtual, and I wanted to learn more about how she put this together week of online events together. We’re also going to talk about makeup, cooking, Instant Pot recipes, books – this is a very well-rounded conversation.
Now, I do want to warn you that at about minute twenty-one [21:00] we talk a little bit about some of the events that inspired her to write this story. We mention sexual assault, the Kavanaugh hearings, and I want to make sure to give you the heads-up that you might want to skip that minute if that’s not something that you want to put in your eardrums right now. So ‘bout minute twenty-one [21:00], skip one minute.
Now, if you have been to virtual events for books or otherwise in the Quarantimes and you really like them, I’d really like to know what was so great. What worked for you? What are the events that you are signing on to participate in? You can email me at [email protected]; you can leave a comment. I’m just really curious. We’re all virtually gathering; what virtual gatherings really work for you?
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Thank you, as always, to our Patreon community. Each pledge that you have made helps make sure that the show is accessible to everyone, makes sure that everyone gets a transcript, and keeps it going every week, so thank you for your support. If you would like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.
I will have information in the show notes about all of the books and makeup and recipes that we talk about; do not worry. I will have a code in the outro for thirty percent off sandals if you think you need new shoes. Listen to the outro; I’ll have more details. And of course I will end with an absolutely horrible joke, because that is how we roll around here.
But! It is now time to get started with this episode. On with my conversation with Renee Ahdieh.
[music]
Renee Ahdieh: Well, thank you so much for having me again, Sarah. It’s such a treat to chat with you. I am Renee Ahdieh; I am the author of The Wrath and the Dawn series, the Flame in the Mist series, and the recently released The Beautiful and its sequel The Damned, which came out at the beginning of July, couple of days ago, and is a vampire love story, basically. I, I’ve been in love with vampires since I first picked up my first Anne Rice book when I was twelve years old, and this is the culmination of lots of daydreaming as a teenager, and I’m just still thrilled to death that I’m able to share this book and this world with readers.
Sarah: So you have The Beautiful and The Damned. The Beautiful came out earlier –
Renee: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: The Damned, Damned came out in July.
Renee: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: This has been a, a bit of a different book release experience, yeah? Little different?
Renee: For sure.
[Laughter]
Renee: For sure! For sure, it’s –
Sarah: I assume it’s –
Renee: – it’s so funny, too, because The Beauti-, The Beautiful came out in October, and so we had always wanted to put out The Damned, so I had this really, like, like, truncated publication schedule, because I wanted to see what would happen if I published The Damned sooner, and then it, we had to shift it around anyway, just because of everything that was going on, and everybody was kind of flailing. They were, they were like, are we doing tour? Like, towards the beginning of the year, are we still doing tour? And I was like, no! No, we are not doing tour! So – [laughs]
Sarah: Doesn’t it seem like October was like five years ago?
Renee: Oh, for sure. I mean, and honestly –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – honestly, it feels like in February was five years ago, ‘cause that’s when we were still discussing, I mean, I don’t know, like, how serious this is going to get, and we were like, oh, this is getting serious very quickly, so yeah, all –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – the plans that we already had in place for me to go different places to market the book, obviously all of that had to be shelved, and we were putting together a virtual tour, which is new for everybody.
Sarah: Yes, and I want to ask you about that.
Renee: Absolutely.
Sarah: I also want to ask you, though, about writing this book, because it’s, you have written series, you’ve written books that continue a larger story arc, you’ve written incredibly complicated worlds, and you have this new world with fashion, New Orleans, vampires, the undead, and kickass women doing kickass things. Was it challenging to write the sequel? Did you write them back to back? Was this one long book that was split? Like, how did you approach this sequel, and was it different from other sequels you’ve written?
Renee: So it is different from other sequels I’ve written in that it is not the end of the series. There’s, there’s, there’s more to come, which was wonderful because I had spent so much time building out these worlds. First, The Beautiful takes place in 1872 New Orleans, and it’s, it was just so much fun to really explore the New, the Victorian New Orleans for what it, what was amazing about it and what was not so great about it. New Orleans has a really fraught history, and I think it’s really shaped what the city is today, and it’s a city I love very dearly. And then in The Damned we’re still in New Orleans, but then we also get to branch out into this larger world that I’ve created of lore that, that deals with, you know, Fae, vampires, and werewolves; and there’s a lot going on here, so the, the fact that I get to continue working to expand and build on what I’ve already written in this series is very, very exciting.
And yes, I pretty much did write them back to back. I, I have an idea for what I want to do with the rest of the series, but because of the – [laughs] – this, the current pandemic situation, I haven’t been able to get as much writing done. I have the, I have a, a small child too. I had a baby at the beginning of spring, and that’s been a blessing but also very difficult! For everything –
Sarah: Yeah!
Renee: – going on right now, and it’s, it’s not working for the creative process because, you know, until very recently we weren’t able to get any help! So –
Sarah: Nope!
Renee: But I’m very excited to dive back into this world, very excited to continue expanding on it, and I’m just thrilled with the response I’ve been receiving. It’s, it’s been, it’s, it’s been a balm to my nerves with everything that’s going on.
Sarah: And it’s a world that you can sort of escape into!
Renee: Exactly.
Sarah: Which is already comforting because we, we’ve already talked about how much there is a, it’s like a really strong nostalgia that’s unlocked when you go into the vampire romance world.
Renee: [Laughs] So true!
Sarah: [Laughs] You did a really cool virtual launch week, and I’m fascinated by this, and I know you just finished, so thank you again for taking time to do more talking after you did a whole lot of talking.
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: How did this series of events come to be? Tell me all about it, ‘cause I think this is so cool, and certainly we’re going to be doing a lot more virtual events in the future, so I’m, I’m curious: tell me how this happened! Tell me all about it!
Renee: So, I mean, it’s, it’s sort of like, it was early on in the discussion when we realized the pandemic was a thing looming on our horizon. You know, thankfully we realized –
Sarah: It was going to –
Renee: Yeah.
Sarah: – screw up everything up! [Laughs]
Renee: Exactly. And thankfully, I realized along with my publisher, even before our government did, that this was going to be a problem. I mean, we, we could have a discussion if they’ve ever really realized that this is an issue, which is just so upsetting. But we realized early on that what we were, what we wanted to do to market the book was obviously not going to work, given what was looming on the horizon, and so discussions were kind of started early on about making the events virtual, reaching out to the independent booksellers that we had already partnered with when we were planning the in-person tour, and just trying to see if this was even feasible, because there’s so many logistics to work out. It’s not just about, you know, does Renee have internet and access to Zoom? It’s, you know, how, how do the booksellers feel about doing this? Do they have internet –
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
Renee: – and access to Zoom? Are they willing to help market this, because, you know, there’s still some independent bookstores that are not open yet? Do they have the space and the time to market these? I mean, there were a lot of harsh realities that we had to, to sort of work through, and thankfully the booksellers we did partner with were terrific. And I also wanted to take it a little, a step further, because, you know, we’re all doing these Zoom calls, we’re all doing Crowdcast stuff, we’re all trying to reach out and connect via the internet as much as possible, so I wanted to kind of level up a little bit and make the events stand out a little, just by giving them themes. And you know, that, that was really fun because I got to, I got to partner with my, my writer friends whom I had already reached out to to be my in-conversation people at these events, and I, you know, I sat down, I brainstormed a little bit with the team, and we came up with these really cool ideas, and it was, it was so fun!
I mean, like, just, it was firstly wonderful to get to see the faces of friends I hadn’t seen in a long time, and it’s odd too, especially ‘cause one of them is one of my dearest friends in the world, Sabaa Tahir, who’s the author of the An Ember in the Ashes series. And –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – I haven’t gone this long without seeing her in years now, and it, it, you know, we always tour together whenever each of our books come out, and so being able to do an event with her was wonderful. Connecting with readers again was wonderful; being able to answer their questions; and obviously, I mean, nothing is going to replace an in-person event: the connection that I can have with the reader, just that face-to-face connection, even if it’s just for the span of a minute or two. I really, really value that, and I’m thankful that we have this in place, but I, I don’t know that it’s ever going to be an adequate substitute?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: But I’m very pleased that we even have this option, given everything that’s going on.
Sarah: And, you know, a lot of people come together to, to create a virtual thing, just as much –
Renee: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – as people come together to create an in-person thing. It is still a collaborative effort; you just, you miss that in-person energy, which is hard to replicate.
Renee: It’s hard to replicate, and also, like, again, because we’re not, I’m not able to speak directly to anyone other than the person that I’m having the in-conversation with, so I, I, I miss that too, especially when people come and they tell me their stories of their love of books, their love of, you know, characters I’ve written, or just, you know, getting to connect with people who’ve been bookworms for decades, just like me. It’s, it’s, I miss it and I, I love it. It’s one of my favorite things about this career, and I’m just very thankful at this point that we, like, that we have the internet in this space – ‘cause there, there’s some bad things the internet obviously gives us – but that we have the internet available to us to do at least something. That was –
Sarah: Yes.
Renee: – that was really wonderful, because I, I feel like a lot of my peers, we were all sort of commiserating like, what are we going to f-ing do right now? Like, I don’t know, and –
Sarah: Right!
Renee: – and I feel so strongly for authors right now who are having their, a debut book come out this year. My heart goes out to them because, like, you’re, you’re, you’ve been, the whole marketing machine that would have been in place to help you has been completely uprooted, and no one really knows what’s going on right now. I mean, we’re still trying to work out, you know, how we’re going to continue moving forward. My friends who have books coming out this year are like, hey, how did everything go? [Laughs] You know, it’s –
Sarah: Yeah!
Renee: – what worked? Tell me what didn’t work. So.
Sarah: Those are actually my exact questions. I know about the themes for each night. So there was an event July 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th with a whole bunch of different stores and different authors in conversation with you.
Renee: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: What were some of the themes that you came up with, and what worked really well?
Renee: So a lot of these things, it’s funny, my, my husband is really a marketing genius. He’s a business owner here in North Carolina, and he and I were brainstorming topics early on, and we came up with some really fun phrases. The first night was a Gothic pajama party. That was with Sabaa and, that was with me and Sabaa, and we had such a good time. We both dressed up in our pajamas, and, like, I wore this, like, black silk pajama set, and I tied up my hair, and we were going to do face masks and really just make it seem –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – like, like we’re hanging out! And we told everybody that we were there, like, who, who was joining us, all of the readers, anybody who was just, like, sitting down to hang out, go get your face masks, go get a cup of hot tea or whatever it is that, whatever beverage you’d like to drink, and let’s all hang out, and it was super fun. And then the next day I had a, we called it the Spill the Damned Tea, ‘cause the book The Damned had just come out, with Roshani Chokshi. So we both got cups of, of tea, and she brought a cocktail, and we talked about our books, so it was almost like this extended book lovers’ happy hour, which was really fun. And then Wednesday, I had such a good time on Wednesday, because one of the things I had had in place before all of the pandemic stuff had happened is I had commissioned with a historical seamstress to have a cosplay costume made.
Sarah: Oh no!
Renee: Yes, I did, I did. I, and she, she’s this brilliant, brilliant woman who, who uses, like, extant patterns and builds things just based on, like, how they were made historically, and she just, I’m in awe of her talent. Even as we were talking about this earlier on and planning it out, and she was sending me these pictures of garments that were, like, in the Smithsonian. You know, what, what do you like about this? What do you like about that? So she built this beautiful costume for me, and obviously I didn’t have any place to wear it, and whenever we were halfway through the process I was like, I still want to do this; I still want to figure out something we can do. So Wednesday night was with Holly Black, and we did Victorian vampire cosplay, so I put on the whole thing, and Holly dressed as a vampire. She had fangs, and we told everybody come –
Sarah: That’s amazing!
Renee: – come dressed as, as vampires, and I had all of these, like, both of us had all these fans, like, tweeting and Instagramming pictures of themselves with fangs or, like, really cool Gothic makeup, and the bookseller this night was so fun. She, she got completely dressed up too. She had, it was, it was, it was really fun. She wore a mask, the bookseller who was helping to moderate the event. And then the last night was with Marie Lu, and that was Q&A from six feet – Undead Q&A from Six Feet Away. So –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – we just themed out the nights, made them, like, like, just a little bit of – ‘cause that’s, I, I mean, that’s, I think, we’re all looking for. Not just a, a chance to be entertained and listen to people talk about the things we love, but to kick back and feel like even in our homes, we’re hanging out with somebody. So that’s what I really wanted to do: I wanted to create a situation that was escapist and fun, and also talked about books in a way that, you know, people who were fans of these kind of stories and fans of all of these writers, these amazingly talented women that I’m privileged to call friends, that we could just all sit down and make it feel like we were hanging out.
Sarah: I love that, and I, and I love how it, you involved people into the activity going on. It made it part of the event to be there at the event. It made it more present and immediate, like this is something you want to see live.
Renee: Absolutely! That’s what we thought too, and we, we also planned to have everything recorded with the, with the bookstores, and eventually I, I’m hoping to put those up on Instagram, on Instagram TV, just, but I want to give, like, some semblance of, like, exclusivity to people who could make the actual event? So, but I’ll, I’ll throw those up on Instagram eventually, which is, which is also really exciting, ‘cause then we can have some further engagement where people who maybe didn’t feel comfortable actually attending the event or for some reason couldn’t attend the event can still sit down and have a good time and listen to people talk about books.
Sarah: Oh, for sure! And not only do you get to listen to people talk about books but you get to celebrate books!
Renee: Exactly!
Sarah: And that’s one of the things we’re sort of missing. You know, when you can gather in a group and celebrate a book that’s just out or a book that you love, that’s, that’s a very contagious feeling.
Renee: It is, it, it truly is, and, and I think all of us miss it. I think all of us miss being able to – there’s, there’s a singular joy in sharing a project that you worked on or that you really love for, I, I don’t know, for such a long time and letting it kind of be no longer yours, because once – I, that’s how I feel: once I put a book out, it’s no longer just for me; it becomes for everybody else? And it, they’re, they’re allowed to make of it what they will, and, and that’s always an exciting, scary time, and this was different, so it was, it was good to – I get, I, I guess a lot of it is, and I talked about this with my editor – I’m sure you’re feeling this way too – like, it seems difficult to celebrate anything, given everything that’s going on around us. It seems like, I even felt that when our son was born. You know, like, it’s just –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – difficult to really have the time and space to celebrate something and feel like, is this appropriate? There’s so much – but, but as my, as my husband said, and as my, my mom actually said, you know, you have to celebrate the things that you can celebrate and be earnest and upfront about it, and I think that that’s, that’s served me as well as possible throughout, throughout all this, and I’m sure, I’m sure you’re, you’re right there too. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah. It, it can be really hard to celebrate – and to celebrate so publicly!
Renee: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: But at the same time, it, it’s important.
Renee: Agreed, agreed. Because this is what I’m, I, I want to do in my free time, too. I want to chat with, with book lovers. I want to read stories that take me away and that I can fully immerse myself in and have that, have that wonderful hypnotic, transportive quality to them, and that’s what I endeavor to write, and that’s what I’m looking for in a really good book. So I, I’m excited when people come to me and they say that they were transported for an hour or two or however long, or they sat down and they found themselves, you know, giving up precious sleep to finish a book that I’ve written. That, there’s no higher compliment to me, especially in times like this.
Sarah: Oh, for sure. No question. Especially how much people are asking me for recommendations: what can I read to, to, that’s like this? I need to escape. This is, this is where –
Renee: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – this is my comfort experience. I imagine being able to escape into The Beautiful and The Damned is something that readers mention to you a lot too.
Renee: Absolutely, and that’s the thing that’s really, it helps to keep me, keep my spirits lifted about the, about, like, what is to come and keep focused on the future, because, like, you know, I think a lot of people around us are struggling with, with the present, and I know we are all struggling with the present, and getting excited about books and getting excited about being able to dive back into this world and hearing everybody, you know, to ask me, what, what are you doing next? You know, what, what are you doing with these characters? ‘Cause this book, this series can’t be over yet, given where you left off on The Damned, and it was so gratifying, too, to have people reach out to me, basically, like, the day the book came out and be like, so I just finished your book, and I’m like, wow! Thank you –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – thank you so much! Thank you so much, just, I mean, that you immediately read it and that you obviously, you know, powered through it. It’s, it’s wonderful. It’s wonderful, and it’s, it’s why I do what I do, so.
Sarah: What are some of your favorite moments in this book?
Renee: It’s interesting, ‘cause I, I remember when we chatted about The Beautiful – [laughs] – I guess ten years ago, back in October –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – when we chatted about The Beautiful, I talked about –
Sarah: In the Beforetimes.
Renee: [Laughs] Exactly. We chatted a little bit about how I drafted that book during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings and how that was –
Sarah: Yes.
Renee: – that was a, a very real and raw moment for me because it brought so much, my anger at the patriarchy, my anger at, you know, my past and the things that I had experienced in terms of sexual violence, and being able to put that onto the page because one of the inciting incidents in the book is that Celine murders a boy who tries to rape her. Celine is the main character –
Sarah: Yes.
Renee: – in The Beautiful. And I’d always known with The Damned that part of my central thesis of that book was going to be dismantling toxic masculinity. and if Celine is the protagonist of The Beautiful, I would say Bastien is the protagonist of The Damned. We get a lot of stuff from his immediate POV. He came to me as, his voice was first person present, which was odd. I usually write in third person past, but his POV chapters are first person present, and he is grappling with this tremendous upheaval, given what had happened at the end of the, of The Beautiful. He has been turned into a vampire against his will, and he thinks he’s now destined to live a life of, an immortal life of blood and hate and anger and completely devoid from the human world that he’d wanted to create for himself, because he’d never wanted to be a vampire. He, he had been very strict about this with his uncle, who was a vampire and who eventually made him, that he, this was not the life for him, and now he’s a vampire. He’s given up on Celine because Celine’s memories were taken from her, and he’s just sort of wallowing for a long time, and his uncle really wants him to, in his mind, rise to the surface and be the man that his uncle wants him to be, which is the very definition of a toxic male, this, this very power, power-hungry, power-driven, money-hungry – anger, anger is the primary focus of everything. Any emotion you have, it needs to be channeled through anger, rage, and violence, and just –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – like, essentially, like, one-upping everyone around. You have to be the top. That idea that there are leaders and followers; you have to be the leader. This very –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – this very definition of toxic masculinity, and Bastien starts to see what this is, and it’s very difficult because for most of his life he’s admired his uncle. He’s wanted to be like his uncle, ‘cause his uncle is powerful and everyone is afraid of him. And especially –
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: – the political landscape we’re looking at right now, where we’re, we have a leader who thinks it’s completely appropriate to have people follow you out of fear. I really wanted to dismantle that, and I wanted Bastien to be the one to dismantle it. I didn’t want a woman to do it for him, because I feel like in so many books that I read – and not knocking them – we’re doing so much of the emotional labor for men to help them realize what’s fucked up about –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – that they are raised and how they look at the world, and it was really cathartic to write a character like this, because I love to read alpha male heroes. I’m a huge fan of historical romance, Regency romance books, and often those characters are very, the heroes are very alpha male, and I wanted to sort of suggest that you can have alpha-male tendencies and realize what’s wrong with it at the same time and work to unravel that so that you can be a better partner for –
Sarah: Yes.
Renee: – whomever your, your significant other might be.
Sarah: And I don’t, I don’t want to be too spoiler-y, but one of the things that I liked about the way in which he dismantles his own examples of toxic masculinity is that he comes to realize how easy it would be! That path is so easy to follow! It’s like, it’s right there! It’s no big deal!
Renee: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: It’s – he had to not only reject but also undo how tempting and easy and simple it would have been to be like, yeah! Ex-, of course, that’s how you do things!
Renee: Exactly, and to resort to violence, which he sees as his, part of his vampire nature now, to subdue people through violence and through brute strength. It’s like you said: it’s very, very easy. I mean, there are actual moments where he sees that, okay, this is a second nature to me, and then he’s sort of horrified in the realization of that second nature. There’s –
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: – one scene that I, I, I loved to write, and it was, it was – and I don’t think this is too spoiler, spoiler-y – Bastien is put in a ring to fight another supernatural creature, and –
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: – his uncle, his uncle has put him in there for the explicit purpose of scaring everyone around him into thinking Bastien is the new king; Bastien is going to be – no one can cross Bastien; Bastien is going to be the best of everything. And in the midst of this, the vampires in my world, when they’re drinking from a victim, they are privy to that victim’s final thoughts, and often what that victim is, is thinking about in their final moments are, it’s their, it’s, it’s, his or her, their life. And –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – and their, these, the images of their life are sort of rifling through their mind, and, and, and Bastien is seeing this as he’s drinking from the, the, the throat of his victim, his, his rival in this fight, and he sort of sees that this victim isn’t thinking about all the, these wonderful times that this victim has triumphed or been better or won a fight or – he’s thinking about these moments with family, the things that he’s lost, and in, and Bastien sees almost their shared humanity in these moments and is horrified that he could so easily have snuffed out this life. And I, I, I really wanted him to come to these realizations on his own –
Sarah: Yes.
Renee: – apart from any, like, woman figure coming in and stepping in, and there are definitely women in his, in his world who, who correct him. There’s sort of like, one of his mom’s really good friends in the book, sort of steps in and says, this is not, you know, what you’re doing here is not what your mother would have wanted for you, and I’ll tell you why. And she, and she says it, but she sort of leaves him to figure out why he shouldn’t be this way on his own.
Sarah: He takes the, the, the self-direction to turn, which I found so interesting and so powerful. It’s, it’s delicious, to, to use a –
Renee: Thank you.
Sarah: – terrible verb here. [Laughs]
Renee: It’s, it’s an apropos verb! What are you talking about? I totally agree. [Laughs]
Sarah: With the, the virtual tour and the events that you did, what were some things that really, really worked well for you, and what were some things, if you do it over again, if you did another virtual tour, if you were advising someone on how to set up a virtual event, you would say, well, maybe not do that?
Renee: You know, I, I don’t know that anything didn’t work per se.
Sarah: Awesome!
Renee: You know, I, I don’t think that – and, like, I think everything worked out really, really well. I think everyone we were partnered with was super enthusiastic about getting out there and, and trying something new, which I think is really important in a time like this. Like, you have to –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – be working with people who are like, okay, I’ve never done this before. I could screw this up, but I’m willing to try, and let’s, let’s, let’s give it the good old college try. And all the booksellers were just so excited to have events and to have conversations with not only writers but readers. There, I wish there were a way, and I don’t see a way around this, to be honest, and the only thing I sort of mentioned to my husband in passing, I really wish there were a way for me to engage in person with the, I guess the audience members, the people who were listening? Like, if there were a way to do that, but it would just be nuts, ‘cause you’d have, like, I mean, some of these events had, you know, upwards of ninety people in attendance. I can’t have, like, a screen that has ninety little, you know, ninety little screens all over it! But I wish there were a way that if somebody wanted to ask a question, it could toggle over to that person?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: But that’s impossible to organize. There, I don’t think there’s any way to do that. It’s just because I value that face to face so much, especially when I’m conversing with somebody who has a question about my books. And, and that’s just me wishful thinking, and again, missing the in-person event, but I don’t think anything that we did, I would, I, I’m, everything worked. It, it worked out really nicely. I, I was so lucky to have these wonderful authors to partner with on these, and these bookstores who were open to trying something new.
I think for anyone who is wanting to do something like this, I would give yourself a lot of lead time. Give yourself a lot of lead time to communicate not just with your publicist if you are fortunate enough to have a publicist – I’m fortunate enough, enough to work to, with an amazing publicity department at Penguin Random House – and then make sure –
Sarah: I’m a, I’m a big fan of your publicist too. Just – [laughs] –
Renee: I am a big fan of my publicist too. She’s fantastic! And I’m very, very lucky to have that. If you don’t have that, be sure you give yourself a lot of lead time with these bookstores. Make sure they have the space to sort of get the word out to their readers, because that was really important to me. I didn’t want to just create these virtual events that were not driving some sort of sales to these independent booksellers, and often those sales are going to come from local readers who are very familiar with that bookstore. I wanted to make sure they had the space, like, whether it be social media, Facebook, whatever it might be, to get the word out to their readership –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – that there’s an event coming up. And I remember – just again to, to shout out a terrific bookstore: Fountain Bookstore in Richmond, Virginia. I’ve never been there before, but Sabaa’s and my event was hosted through Fountain Books on Tuesday, the release day, July 7, which also happened to be another Blackout Tuesday, and the owner of that bookstore, who was just a gem, she turned around and redirected all of her sales to a Black-owned bookstore, and she talked about this in the very beginning of the event, about how, you know, wonderful – it was Loyalty Bookstore – and how, how much love she had for the owner of Loyalty Bookstore and how she –
Sarah: Loyalty Books is so great! That’s amazing!
Renee: – so wonderful, and the owner of Fountain Books directed all her sales there, so I have been making it a mission now, anytime somebody to talks to me about this, to tell people to please buy books from Fountain Bookstore and Loyalty Books, just because – these are why booksellers are such wonderful people. It’s not, it’s not about some corporate mindset; it’s about this team mindset. How can we help each other out, and how can we make the celebration of a book that’s launching on Blackout Tuesday meaningful for what’s going on around it? And to me this –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – this was, it was a tremendous thing for them to do, without flinching! It was a tremendous thing for them to do, and I, I so appreciated it, and it, again, you just need, find good partners, have a lot of lead time.
You know, give yourself time to also make sure on the day of that everybody’s technology is working properly.
Take a moment for yourself, if possible, before you get online, because it is draining to sit and talk to people for a very, very long time, and you want to make sure you’re in prime, prime shape for it. You want to clear your headspace. You want to, if you, you want to have, like, a ritual I think is really important before you sit down to do virtual events. My, my ritual happens to be doing makeup. I find it extremely soothing, so I spend time doing a face. I get dressed up as if I’m going to a bookstore, because I want to be in the right headspace for this.
Sarah: Yeah, we, when we, when we talked last time, you talked about how much makeup is a, is a play space for you.
Renee: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: I love that. So it sounds like what you’re saying is if you’re going to do an event series like this, build a lot of lead time to allow everyone to reach their communities, because virtually you need to, you know, it takes more effort to reach everyone when everyone – when everything is screens and is everything is virtual, you need time to reach out to a bookstore community and an author community and a reader community and – all of these communities need to be reached out to; you need time to do that.
Renee: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And to also reach out to your friends and your, and your network for support.
Renee: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So when you reach out to your support network of friends to be in conversation and to do events with you, it, you already have support when you log in.
Renee: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it’s, and, and it’s like you said: I don’t want to be talking to people for forty-five minutes. I don’t want to do a recitation of, of my book. Like, there are, they, I, we have wonderful audiobooks available of my work and these, these amazing people do such a, the book much better justice than I would if I were reading it, and so having conversations with my friends and being able to share in that conversation with other readers, it’s, it’s wonderful! And working with people who can make that possible is, it’s so important.
And, you know, the only other bit of advice I’d be is like, make sure you’re having fun. Make sure you’re –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – creating events that you’re going to have fun with, that you’re partnering with authors or friends or whomever it might be that you’re in conversation with, that you have a good time with them and you have easy rapport with them, because if you’re having fun, everyone around you is going to have fun, and ultimately that’s what I want. I want any book event that, you know, I’m a part of organizing or, or have the privilege of hosting, I want people to walk away and be like, I had a good time!
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: We all need that so much right now. I want to have a good time, and I hope everybody else is wanting to have a good time when, when they’re tuning in to any sort of book event that I’m a part of.
Sarah: So I do want to ask, because you mentioned makeup –
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: – I had to put on makeup for a, an event where I would be on camera, and I sort of stood in my bathroom for a minute and was like, crap! Do I even remember how to do this?
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: Like, I, okay, this pencil’s for my eyes; this one’s, I know what lipstick is; but what am I supposed to do with this brush? Like, what makeup have you been playing with in the Quarantimes?
Renee: [Laughs] In the Quarantimes – I still love that.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: So I have been playing with makeup that, because I have this lighting kit that I put on around me whenever I’m doing a virtual event, and it makes me feel like I’m melting, so I have all these fans going on? So I –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: – I’ve been playing – I mean, also, it’s July, so, like, everything that I’m putting on my face I’m wanting to be extremely sweat-proof, and nothing that’s very cakey.
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: So I’m really in love with this, it’s a, it’s – I can’t even remember what it’s called; I should go grab it. It’s by the makeup brand Ilia, I-L-I-A, and it’s –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Renee: – it’s this, it’s this tinted, almost, like, skin care line, basically, that is a very almost light foundation, and I love it. It’s got SPF in it. I think it’s wonderful. I’ve been playing a lot with different lipsticks, and also, since it’s virtual, sparkly things on your eyes, just to draw attention to your eyes. And you almost, too, if you’re a fan of makeup, you almost want to go a little bit overboard if you’re doing virtual events, because cameras, lenses, all this kind, it washes you out a lot, and it –
Sarah: Yeah.
Renee: – it actually makes whatever effort you put on, you’ll feel like you’re looking at yourself in the mirror and you’re like, oh, this definitely looks good, and then you’ll go and you’ll see a video recording of yourself and be like, oh, I don’t look any different at all. So play it up a little! So what I was doing with all these virtual events is, I was definitely doing more with the eyes, making the eyeliner bigger. I was using bigger false lashes. Play it, playing with sparkle. Playing with cool jewelry, especially with this, with everything being sort of like chest up, I would say –
Sarah: [Laughs] Yes!
Renee: – or waist up? Really cool jewelry I think is fun. I’m a big fan of rings. I talk with my hands all the time.
But just ways to be visually engaging, and, and it’s not for everybody else’s benefit; it’s, it’s really for me. I, it, I, I feel like – I know I mentioned this in our first conversation around The Beautiful – for me, putting on makeup and taking pride in, like, you know, what, what clothes I’m choosing for that day, it’s, it’s almost like putting on armor, and it makes it so that when I sit down, I feel completely comfortable, and, and I’m not worried about, like, do I look weird in this? I’m not focused on the viewfinder, ‘cause I find that a lot of people, like, like, so, at the very beginning whenever we’re doing all these virtual events, you’re not really looking at the people you’re talking to. You’re looking at yourself to make sure you don’t look stupid, and –
Sarah: Yep!
Renee: – and you’re, so there, you’re not really connecting with the person that you’re talking to, and it was important to me to be like, okay, I look fine; I don’t need to look at myself. Let me make eye contact with the person I’m talking to.
Sarah: So do you have a recommended brand of false lashes that you like?
Renee: So I really like obnoxious false lashes, and I’m a big fan of the brand Lilly Lashes? But I, I, I say that with a caveat that I don’t know that they use all, like, the, the cruelty-free mink lashes? Which I think they might be now; I think they recently made that switch over, which is important, and there are couple of companies that also do. I think Velour Lashes does cruelty-free ones, but I, I really like Lilly Lashes, and the style that I like the most is Miami. And the louder ones, they have, like, Miami Extremes? Those are the ones I’ve been wearing for the virtual events that I’ve done, just to be, just, just out of fun. And I wore really big cocktail rings –
Sarah: Oh, awesome.
Renee: Yeah, I, I’m really into this, this moment of these gold chains, these thick gold chains that were, like, popular in, like, the ‘80s and the ‘90s?
Sarah: Yep.
Renee: Into that moment too. Just, and then shirts that have loud prints on them or have fun prints on them. It’s, it just makes it a little more fun, ‘cause, you know, we’re not going anywhere; we can’t get dressed up to go out to do anything. This was fun to me because I could, I could get dressed up for this a little bit; even if I was wearing, like, pajama pants on the bottom, I could get dressed up for this, so.
Sarah: Yep! And, because you’re being not only broadcast on camera, which, as you said, washes you out, you’re also, depending on the size of someone’s screen, you could be a tiny little box. You want to show up in that box.
Renee: You, and you want them to be able to see your features, so, you know, get some –
Sarah: Yeah!
Renee: – cool color of lipstick, or I, I play with some fun glosses, and there’s a Black-owned business of makeup that I love: Pat McGrath Labs. Her makeup is fantastic. Her, her –
Sarah: Ooh!
Renee: – eyeshadows and all of her lip products are beautiful, so if you’re looking to potentially, you know, up your makeup game because of the virtual world right now, definitely check her stuff out, because it’s, it’s wonderful. And I think I even, they might have had a sale going on where they had some items that were like twenty or thirty percent off, and I picked up a lip gloss from her and a –
Again, it’s just these, these fun ways to, to make it fun also for the people who are watching you, but mostly for yourself.
Sarah: Yeah!
Renee: Like, there’s, there’s just, it’s just nice to be able to do. It’s, it’s a version of self-care.
Sarah: It is, and one thing I’ve been doing in the Quarantimes is giving myself a manicure every Monday? Today was, today’s color is a very sparkly space purple, but it makes me –
Renee: Oh.
Sarah: – stop; it makes me slow down, ‘cause I am not very good at it; and it also makes me not do anything because my nails are wet! I have to wait for them to dry! [Laughs]
Renee: I love that –
Sarah: But –
Renee: – Manicure Mondays; that’s wonderful.
Sarah: Oh yeah! So today is sparkly space purple. If you need a nail polish recommendation, ILNP, which I believe stands for I Love Nail Polish, their website –
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: – is full of sparkly chromes and incredibly vivid colors. Their summer collection is really nice, and I’m super into it?
Renee: ILNP –
Sarah: And –
Renee: – oh, that’s wonderful! I’ll have to check that out.
Sarah: And it’s, it’s like, it’s like you said: I’m doing this for me – I talk with my hands – and it’s, it’s like a nice little thing to dress up when I myself am not dressing up for much of anything.
Renee: Yep! So true. I mean –
Sarah: Yep.
Renee: – and yet, I’m, I’m all about the sweatpant lifestyle. I’m, I’m a huge advocate of Cheetos and sweatpants as often as possible.
Sarah: Oh yeah. [Laughs]
Renee: I think for the purpose of these events and just to get in the right mindset, it’s, it is a nice treat. So all around just, you know, bring your A game as much as you can with virtual events.
Sarah: Yep.
Renee: And even if the effort is, like, it’s draining – I have a four-month-old; obviously it’s draining for me to how, have, to, like, figure out, you know, am I going to do this while he’s taking a nap? Can someone help me –
Sarah: Yep!
Renee: – so that I can spend thirty minutes doing my makeup? It’s, it’s worth it in the end if you are as privileged as I am to have these options available to you.
Sarah: Yes. Now, we also talked about cooking when we, when we spoke.
Renee: Ah!
Sarah: Are there any recipes that you are making in the Quarantimes?
Renee: Oh, okay, so I’m big into comfort food right now, so I’ve been making a lot of chicken pot pies, and I use, like –
Sarah: Oh, hell yeah!
Renee: Yeah, the store-bought piecrust. Don’t, don’t – I mean, like, I have so much admiration for everybody who can bake. I’m not a great baker, but I’m a good cook. So I’ll make, like, this really elaborate, essentially like this very thick, hearty chicken stew. I have these fresh herbs from my garden that I’ll put in it. So I’m a big fan of chicken pot pie.
I’m really into the Instant Pot right now? Have you, have you used the Instant Pot?
Sarah: I love my Instant Pot.
Renee: Ohhh! The Instant Pot for me with Indian food. There’s this woman –
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: – this, there’s this woman, her name is Ashley Singh Thomas, and she wrote this book for Indian recipes for the Instant Pot, and I’m sold. Like, every single recipe I’ve made from this book is fantastic, so. And to me, Indian food is, is a big comfort food, as is Persian food and Korean food. I haven’t been able to cook as frequently as I like because I have a, a very small child, but anytime I can cook, it’s, it’s another moment for me that’s really, it’s cleansing. It’s soul cleansing to just make something –
Sarah: Oh yeah.
Renee: – with my hands. And as a creator who often doesn’t see the final product of what she’s working on for months, maybe a year, to be able to sit down in one evening with a bunch of raw ingredients and come up with, you know, you, you finish your art, basically, and produce something that you can give to people in one night is very soothing to my soul.
Sarah: I have a recipe for you. It is –
Renee: Oh, what is it?
Sarah: – from Serious Eats. You eat, do you eat meat?
Renee: Yes, yes.
Sarah: Okay, just want to make sure.
Renee: Uh-huh.
Sarah: So this is a, I want to say it is –
Wilbur: Mew-mew.
Sarah: – let me get this right – okay, Cat, quit yelling at me! The cat is like, no! Pet the cat! Do not look at recipes and talk in the microphone; pet cat!
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: Okay, so this is chicken lentil bacon stew.
Renee: Wait, what?
Sarah: Yes. So –
Renee: Like, I’m writing, I’m, I, I’m literally writing this down in my phone: chicken lentil bacon stew.
Sarah: I will, I will send you the link. It is –
Renee: Ohhh!
Sarah: – chick-, it is a whole chicken, bacon, and dried French lentils, the little tiny dark ones.
Renee: Uh-huh?
Sarah: You put the, you, you brown some vegetables – what we, we usually do is we buy the whole chicken from Costco, and then we just cut it up with, with shears?
Renee: Uh-huh?
Sarah: And take the back out ‘cause it’s too fatty. Drop all the pieces in, drop your, drop your lentils in, and high pressure for twenty minutes. Then you pull out the chicken and shred the meat and mix it back in, and you serve it with parsley and sherry vinegar, which is like this whole other taste profile.
Renee: Whaat?
Sarah: It is so good. Holy cow.
Renee: Okay, give it to me. Give it to me. Is there a, is there another recipe, ‘cause now, now we’re in the food section of this, of this broadcast. But is there another recipe that you’ve been loving? ‘Cause I, I, yeah, I, I need to send you Ashley Singh Thomas’s cookbook if you haven’t, if you don’t have it. It’s called My Heart Beets –
Sarah: Oh gosh!
Renee: – My Heart Beets. I need to send it to you. It’s wonderful. But –
Sarah: I would love it!
Renee: So, what, do you have another recipe that you’re really into? ‘Cause the Instant Pot is wonderful because it’s so quick! I don’t have to –
Sarah: Yep!
Renee: – babysit things. I make beef bourguignon in my Instant Pot; that’s another really good recipe.
Sarah: Ah!
Renee: But so what, what are you cooking other than this? Because this, this chicken, lentil, bacon thing, I’ve, I’ve got to, that’s got to happen.
Sarah: So that’s a longer one. That takes twenty minutes, plus the time to come up to pressure. That’s, you know, that takes a little bit of time. The one that I love for weeknights is, there’s an America’s Test Kitchen Multicooker Perfection cookbook, and inside –
Renee: Mmm!
Sarah: – is a recipe for parmesan risotto –
Renee: What.
Sarah: And there’s also a recipe for shrimp, I think it’s shrimp farrotto, where they use farro.
Renee: Uh-huh?
Sarah: So what I did was I combined them, ‘cause my kids love shrimp, and you make the risotto – it takes seven minutes of high pressure; it’s ridiculous.
Renee: I have not made –
Sarah: But then –
Renee: – risotto in the Instant Pot! I need to do that. Oh!
Sarah: Oh, it’ll make your eyes roll back in your head it’s so good.
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: So what happens is when you’re done, you open the pot, you, it’s a quick release, you open the pot, and you make sure it’s cooked all the way, which it is, and then you drop the shrimp in, put the lid back on, and let the shrimp cook with the carryover heat. It takes like ten minutes, and then they’re perfectly done. After you’ve stirred in the cheese, then you top with some chives, and dinner is, like, twenty-five minutes total. It’s –
Renee: Whaat?!
Sarah: – unbelievable!
Renee: Oh my God. Okay, that, I have to do that. Yep, that’s happening.
Sarah: It’s, and it’s one of my kids’ favorite dinners, and so if we have some shrimp in the freezer I can, I can always be like, you know, I’m not feeling dinner tonight. Let’s make shrimp risotto instead, and it’s, it’s easy. It’s super easy, and gosh, is it good!
Renee: That sounds like the best comfort food. Like, cheesy risotto – risotto is really just like, it’s like snobby mac and cheese. It’s the best thing ever.
Sarah: So what are you working on right now, aside from makeup and Instant Potting and raising a four-month-old human.
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: How is the four-month-old human?
Renee: He is the cutest thing. He’s the best thing we’ve ever made. Like, honestly –
Sarah: Oh!
Renee: – the best thing we’ve ever made. The, every time he smiles, when I go to get him in the morning and his, he, as soon as he sees me and he gives me this big gummy smile I’m like, take all my money, take whatever you want.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: And then all my friends joke; they’re like, oh, he will! He will take everything! [Laughs] But he is the cutest. And, but I also feel the responsibility to, to tell people, this is extremely hard.
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: And, and I wish, I wish we more freely allowed women to say that, because I feel like often I’m around people who are like, oh, if, if you complain about a baby, you’re not, you’re not a baby person. Oh, but aren’t you so thankful? Yes. That, the gratitude I feel for that is immeasurable, but also, he’s screaming in your ear at four o’clock in the morning.
Sarah: Like, yep!
Renee: And you don’t know what to do. You’re sweaty all the time as a new mom. That’s the thing I keep telling anybody; they ask me what I’m, I’m doing, and I’m like, I’m sweaty. There’s no –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Renee: If you’re, if you’re, if you’re breastfeeding, if you’re doing any, like, if you’re carting around this kid who’s, like, spitting up on you or whatever, you’re sweaty all the time. It’s hard, it’s beautiful, it’s magical, but I want to give people the space to be like, holy shit, what did I just do? And I talked about this with, with my husband a lot. Like, it’s an interesting feeling, because you’re so excited about this new chapter of your life, and you can’t wait; like, I can’t wait to cook for him, I can’t wait to take him all these cool places one day when we can still go where we want to go. I keep dreaming about the first time I’m going to take him to Disney World, and it just, it, like, makes my heart burst at the thought. But also you’re mourning sort of the loss of your, your life without kids, and –
Sarah: Yep!
Renee: – I don’t know that we let people mourn adequately. Like, ‘cause you –
Sarah: No.
Renee: – I think you can have those two things at the same time: extreme joy and extreme sadness for what you’ve lost.
Sarah: Oh yeah! I mean, even just going into the Quarantimes was mourning –
Renee: Yes, yeah.
Sarah: – the normal life you used to have that we’re not going to have for a while. It’s a big change to go from being a, a nine-month-pregnant, gestating person –
Renee: Yep.
Sarah: You know, I, I used to rest my dinner plate on my belly? Like, it was –
Renee: [Laughs]
Sarah: – I was, I was all out front. I could just park my whole meal just right there, and if there weren’t any hiccups I was, I was good to go. And then I barely sat down. I never slept in! I, It was –
Renee: Yep.
Sarah: – a complete change of every piece of my schedule, and I don’t think, you’re right, I don’t think there’s enough room to say, this is really hard and it sucks sometimes! It’s wonderful and it sucks at the same time!
Renee: Exactly! And you can have those two seemingly conflicting emotions at the very same time. Like, I, I, I’m very grateful for any of my friends who came to me and they were like, hey, if you need to just, like, shout or something, let us know. I mean, we’re getting to a much better place because he’s now sleeping through the night? And that was –
Sarah: Yes!
Renee: – that was a real gift, right there. The sleeping through the night was a real gift. I was like –
Sarah: [Whistles]
Renee: – I loved you so much yesterday; my love has only grown for you!
[Laughter]
Sarah: And there’s that moment where you wake up and you’re like, oh my God, I didn’t get up. Is something wrong? Oh my God. Wait! Sleeping?
Renee: Exactly!
Sarah: Sleeping has happened? [Gasps]
Renee: I remember the first day that I realized it happened, and I woke up with this, like, like panic start, like, you, like, you, you feel like you might have slept through your alarm. And I look over –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Renee: – at my, my clock, and it’s like seven twenty-something, and he’s still asleep in his bassinet. I’m like, holy shit!
Sarah: [Gasps]
Renee: This is magic!
[Laughter]
Sarah: Oh yeah.
Renee: So, but he’s the cutest. We, we are so grateful for him. And we’re grateful now that we can start having, introducing family. My mom is watching him right now while I’m doing this interview, and it, it is, it is a beautiful, wonderful thing to watch my mom with her first grandkid, so.
Sarah: Oh, that’s so lovely!
All right, so aside from cookbooks, what books you want to tell people about?
Renee: So I am reading, and I, in the, in the, in the very small amount of time that I have right before I go to bed, ‘cause I, I always have to read before I go to bed. For me, it’s, it’s like, almost like Etch-A-Sketching my brain from the day, and it’s a way I decompress. It’s part of my –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Renee: – evening ritual. I am reading, and I want to be one of these people who stays up until four o’clock in the morning reading it, and I know I can’t because I got a baby, but –
Sarah: You’ll, you’ll, you’ll pay for that decision! Hoo!
Renee: [Laughs] For sure. I’m reading Sarah MacLean’s Daring and the Duke, and I am having such a good time with this book, because I remember last October when I was hanging out with Sarah, and she was talking about this book with me and how she’s writing the ultimate, like, sort of grovel novel? And she has pulled it off, so, because she’s like, she’s like, I made him so detestable that I, I’m worried, you know. Is there anything redeemable about this character that I’ve made so detestable to – and, and a grovel novel, for everybody who’s listening, is basically where, where typically the hero has screwed up so badly that he has to get down on his hands and knees and beg for forgiveness.
Sarah: Yep!
Renee: And she is pulling this off so well. I, I am so proud of her, and she’s just, her books are so fun.
I’m also very lucky in that I’ve been able to read some books that aren’t out yet because I beta read them. I read Sabaa Tahir’s last book in her quartet, the Ember Quartet.
Sarah: Ohhh my!
Renee: It was, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I’m very, very, very excited about this book. It’s, it’s fantastic. She has done tremendous work with these characters, and the time that she takes to sort of rewrite, rework scenes, ‘cause I’ve been able, I’m privileged to watch her and, like, in process writing these books, and she is so fixated on making everything absolutely perfect, to the point where she will rewrite one scene like five or six times. And this book is fantastic.
I also read Roshani Chokshi’s The Silvered Serpents. Beautiful, beautiful book. Her best yet. She just gets better and better with every single book that she writes.
I’m getting ready to write How to Win – uh, write – I’m getting ready to read How to Win the Time War [This Is How You Lose the Time War], which has come back to me with so many recommendations.
And I also just read – which is odd, ‘cause it’s a cookbook, but I, I enjoyed reading it so much – Samin Nosrat’s Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat. Have you read this?
Sarah: I love that book!
Renee: I love her so much.
Sarah: I love it!
Renee: I love her so much, and it’s, it’s like, you wouldn’t think this because it’s a cookbook, but it’s actually such a wonderful read? It’s, it’s –
Sarah: It’s so good.
Renee: It’s so wonderful. I, and so those are the books I’ve been reading right now. What are you reading? I want to know what you’re reading! [Laughs]
Sarah: Oh goodness! I am reading Lauren Ho’s Last Tang Standing?
Renee: Oooh!
Sarah: Which has been pitched as Bridget Jones’s Diary meets Crazy Rich Asians, and so far that is dead on exactly what this is. It is so dishy. There are super wealthy people with super massive problems and all of that sort of familial pressure to conform to a very specific standard, and there’s a slow burn romance, which is my favorite. So that is what I am reading right now.
Renee: That sounds fantastic. I, I have to, definitely have to pick up that book. That sounds like something I would love to read right now.
Sarah: Oh yes, super dishy.
[music]
Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you for joining me. Thank you to Renee Ahdieh for hanging out with me and talking about all the things. Do not fear; if you’re thinking you want to eat or cook or try or read or maybe buy some of the stuff we talked about, I’ll have links to everything, don’t worry, in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
And I am curious: what virtual gatherings have you attended or hosted? What really works for you virtually? I’m, I’m really interested in finding out what works for everyone, because what works for me is not always what works for other people. You can email me at [email protected]. You can call and leave a short message at 1-201-371-3272, or you can leave a comment on the entry for this podcast. Either way, I love hearing from you!
Now, I promised a coupon for shoes, and I would never joke about such things. I was recently sent two pair of sandals from California Footwear Company, and wow, are they comfortable. They have a very soft footbed that is very supportive, but there’s a thick sole that can handle all the walking I do without slipping. I walk a lot, especially now, and these are perfect for all of the dog walks and the end of the day strolls I take with my family. They are awesome sandals with awesome arch support, and they’re so comfortable you’ll forget to sit down, and they’re really cute! They have cute styles. So you can invest in yourself and start with your feet and get thirty percent off your order with free shipping with code SBTB30. That’s thirty percent off your order and free shipping with SBTB30 at californiafootwearco.com.
Thank you again to the Patreon community for being fabulous. I deeply, deeply appreciate your support, and it means a lot to know that the, the podcast keeps you company, so thank you, thank you, thank you.
If you would like to have a look at our Patreon, it is patreon.com/SmartBitches!
As always, I end with a terrible joke, because that’s how we do things here. It’s terrible of me to share these terrible jokes, so that’s why I do it. Are you ready? It’s a good joke, by which I mean it’s really bad.
Why do dragons sleep during the day?
Why do dragons sleep during the day?
Because they only hunt knights!
[Laughs] It’s so silly, I love it!
If you want to send me bad jokes, please do! Makes my day to get bad jokes from all of you; I love it so much!
But on behalf of Renee and myself and everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend. We will see you back here next week.
Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find amazing podcasts to listen to at frolic.media/podcasts.
[bouncy music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Thanks for an enjoyable interview and the recipes and the transcript and the silly joke and ….
Renee said something to the effect that she wished she could do more personal interaction with fans during online book promotions. Recently I attended a Zoom-style “Short Story Club” event where Martha Wells (Murderbot author) talked about her books. Everyone but her was muted and off-screen but if you asked a question in the comments, a moderator could call on you during the Q&A time, and the individual was un-muted and on video while they asked their question. They also had breakout sessions where we could chat with small groups of other fans before the main event. I don’t know the technical details of how they did it, but if you go to the shortstory.club web site maybe you could contact someone there for advice. It was a really well-run event.
Also, I’m definitely going to look up that cookbook she mentioned. Thanks!
Risotto is cooking in the Instant Pot as I write. Thanks for the inspiration, Sarah! Love you and your podcast guests.
@Abby: I hope it’s delicious! Please let me know how it turns out?