356. Our Book Club Discussion of Rebel Hard by Nalini Singh

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Sarah Wendell: Hello there, and welcome to episode number 356 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and this week we are going to host our book club discussion of Rebel Hard by Nalini Singh. We are also welcoming Aarya Marsden to our collective mayhem for her first book club episode and her first podcast! Welcome, Aarya! We are going to deep dive into everything we loved about Rebel Hard by Nalini Singh, and there was a lot that we loved. We also talk about how our tolerance for alpha heroes varies by genre in which they appear and which lines pulled us out of the story while which characters pulled us back in because we adored them. Please be warned, we talk about the ending, the middle, and everything in between, so if you haven’t read it and you want to, you might not want to listen unless you want all of the spoilers, okay?

Now, I do have a content warning at the end. When Carrie discusses her grade for the book, she talks about the realities of alcoholic family members and the caretaking that happens in that situation, so if that’s something that would be upsetting for you what you want to do is skip ahead about two minutes when she mentions Caroline Bingley. Most podcast apps have a thirty-second skip, so if you skip forward two minutes you’ll skip right over that portion of the show.

We were so excited to record this episode, but before I continue with the intro I also want to note that currently we are having a thunderstorm because it’s spring, and in Maryland we have severe weather and it really means severe, my gosh! And my dogs are not here for it; they really don’t enjoy it, so if you hear thumping or panting or whining, that’s because they’ve decided they need to come into my office and tell me that the weather is severe and they dislike it and we should go to the basement and play videogames. So if that happens I apologize for any strange background noise, and if we catch thunder and, you know, thunder makes you relaxed, then I hope this is a relaxing intro for you.

This podcast episode is brought to you by Rogue Most Wanted by Janna MacGregor, the latest in the Cavensham Heiresses series. It is a Smart Bitches Hide Your Wallet pick for June 2019! True facts! When an upstart duke challenges Lady Theodora Worth’s claim to her inherited Scottish earldom and the Ladykyrk estate, Thea is suddenly in need of a husband – in name, at least. An elderly neighbor with a thoroughly modern sensibility and a dashing great-nephew just might be the answer to Thea’s prayers. Ever since he was jilted as a young man, Lord William Cavensham has been entirely too devoted to his family’s estate to wed, but he agrees to meet the woman his aunt has taken under her wing and introduce her to possible suitors. But after just one meeting with beautiful, spirited Thea, Will is determined to help her reclaim her title. And even more so, he can’t stop thinking that perhaps marriage to this bold, passionate woman may be the one thing he’s been missing all along. Redheadedgirl says Janna MacGregor writes like a warm, cozy blanket. If you love Eloisa James’s humor and Christi Caldwell’s passion, then Rogue Most Wanted is for you. Rogue Most Wanted by Janna MacGregor will be available wherever books are sold on June 25th, 2019.

This podcast episode’s transcript is being brought to you by the Patreon community! Thank you to everyone who has supported the show on Patreon. Your pledges make sure that every episode is accessible to everyone, and I am very thankful for your help. If you would like to join the Patreon community, it would be awesome if you did. Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar a month, and with your pledge you are communicating to us that what we do here has value, and we are very grateful for your support. So again, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

I do have a compliment and also a text message, because I forgot to turn off my cell phone like a bad podcaster. You will never guess what has just happened: a call on my phone has been blocked, and the number is 000-000-0000, so I’m glad we missed that call, and I’m glad I forgot to turn off my phone number, because this is a super-professional intro.

I do have a compliment. The compliment this week is for Rachel.

Rachel, there are words in seventeen other languages that describe how excellent you are, but they are so effusive and intricate they can’t fully be translated into English, so keep being as awesome as you are.

Now we are going to discuss a lot of books and movies and television shows and so many things in this episode. Do not worry; I will have links to all of them in the show notes. And at the end of the episode I will have a preview of what’s coming up on Smart Bitches and a terrible joke.

But for now, let’s start this book club discussion with Amanda, Aarya, Carrie, and me. On with the podcast.

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Sarah: Aarya, before we get started, welcome!

Aarya Marsden: Thank you! [Laughs]

Sarah: – are so happy you’re joining us! Welcome to Smart Bitches! Are you, are you, are you a little excited to hang out with us?

Aarya: Mostly terrified, but I’m keeping it together.

[Laughter]

Aarya: No, really, so you know that I’ve read romance for, like, many, many years now, since I was like eleven, and Smart Bitches is one of the first sites that I, like, ever really read, ‘cause when you Google, like, when you Google reviews –

Sarah: Aw!

Aarya: – like, your, your site comes up like almost first.

Sarah: Yep.

Aarya: So, like, I’ve never, like, you know, I didn’t comment or anything until, like, this last year, ‘cause I felt really awkward, being relatively young. I mean, most, like, I actually don’t know what the age makeup of, of romance readership is, but I, I mean, I imagine that many fifteen-year-olds don’t comment on your site. I don’t know.

Amanda: Well, when, when I started reading, if it makes you feel any better, I was in high school, and so I graduated high school in 2007, and I came aboard the site because for my Bachelor’s degree I needed an internship, and I had asked Sarah.

Aarya: Ahhh! Okay.

Amanda: So you’re not, I, I feel like some of our audience starts reading in high school, so I don’t think you’re alone there.

Sarah: Oh, definitely not.

Aarya: There’s a difference between, like, reading and, like, being part of the community, so, like, the second bit is really terrifying, in my opinion. It’s, it’s hard to talk about things when everyone is so much older than you and wiser.

Amanda: Well, I will say this: engage as much as you want to. Like, I love getting into the comments if I post a review or, you know, like the Books on Sale posts, but don’t ever feel obligated that you have to pop in. I know Sarah is torn on, like, commenting things, because sometimes, because she’s the owner of the site, she feels that if she pops into the comments to chime in, it might halt or stifle whatever cool discussion is going on?

Sarah: Oh yeah, I’m a walking conversation stopper.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Like, if I show up in the comments it’s like, zip! And I’m like, well, damn it! I’ll just hush. And also, I also feel like if I’ve posted something I’ve already said my thing, and I want to hear what everyone else has to say? But I can also tell you that the majority of the site lurks and doesn’t comment. Commenting is a smaller percentage of the total audience, so you’re definitely not alone in reading but not participating, and that’s okay! It’s totally fine to do that. I’m just glad you hang out with us! And I’m glad you’re part of the site now! Congratulations!

Aarya: Thank you!

Sarah: Yay! All right, so Aarya, I will start with you. What did you think of, for you, rereading Rebel Hard by Nalini Singh?

Aarya: I first read it I think on release day last year?

Sarah: ‘Cause you’re a big Nalini Singh fan, right?

Aarya: Oh no, I’m just a casual reader. It’s like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Aarya: – first-time author. I, I don’t know who this person is. No, no, that’s not true. I fricking love Nalini Singh. I have an entire bookshelf, like an altar of worship, as I like to call it. I own autographed copies of both the international and American editions of the Psy-Changeling series. I am a fan. There is – [laughs] – I think I said to you that I couldn’t, like, ever write a review for her because I knew it wouldn’t ever be critical and it’d be useless and it wouldn’t be very interesting, and I think that’s true! That’s my level of fandom.

Sarah: So you’re a, you’re an avid, active fangirl.

Aarya: Yeah.

Sarah: I feel like I should have downloaded some really dramatic Bollywood music to, like, play behind you while you’re talking. So you first read this on release day, and then you reread it recently, right?

Aarya: Yesterday, last night.

Sarah: You’re a very fast reader, aren’t you?

Aarya: Yeah, I took about four hours, but, but what’s interesting is – I think I told you this – is I love her paranormal –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: – but I don’t always like her contemporaries for reasons. But this is, I think, the one contemporary that I really love of hers, so that was exciting to reread because of that, because of that reason.

Amanda: Have you read – so I’m, I feel like I’m in the same boat where I like her paranormals, but her contemporaries I’m iffy on, mainly because she has tropes or characters that aren’t my bag. Like, the Rock Kiss series, I’m not a fan of rock stars, so I –

Aarya: Oh my God, I hate them.

[Laughter]

Amanda: I don’t like reading about rock stars at all.

Aarya: Nor do I, but you know that –

Amanda: The –

Aarya: – Kristen Callihan series that everyone raves about? Hate them.

Amanda: I did not like the first book. What is it, Idol is the first book? It was just – I love her Darkest London series, and I love her New Adult college series –

Aarya: She is, yeah.

Amanda: – but the first book in that series was different, I will say.

Sarah: Not for you, huh?

Amanda: I wouldn’t say I hated it, but it was very, it’s not what I was expecting.

Sarah: Not for you.

Aarya: So I should clarify: I don’t – I think she’s a great writer, and I do like her other series. I don’t like the series because I don’t like rock stars. It’s not her. It’s the trope.

Amanda: Yeah.

Aarya: I –

Amanda: But I loved Nalini’s – so the Rock Kiss series, the first book has a rock star hero, and then I think it’s either the second or the third book, Rock Hard, that has the rugby player? And the, he calls the heroine, like, Mouse because she’s so tiny and mousy. I really liked that one? But this is only the second contemporary I’ve read by Nalini, so I, I’m definitely with Aarya on this one. I like her paranormals more; not saying the contemporaries are bad –

Aarya: Oh, I have a –

Amanda: – but –

Aarya: – theory about why I don’t like her contemporaries as much, but I don’t know if you want to get into that now.

Sarah: I would really like to know. Bring this theory on; I want to hear about this theory.

Aarya: Okay, so she is the queen of writing alpha heroes; it is her thing. She’s very good at it.

Sarah: Yep.

Aarya: She does different types of alpha heroes, but they are nonetheless alpha heroes, and my tolerance for an alpha hero is so much higher in paranormal. Like, we all have, like, a line of tolerance, right. There’s, like, so much –

Sarah: Right, right, right.

Aarya: – that a hero can get away with. Like, I can’t do dark romance ‘cause my line is below that. So my paranormal, like, tolerance line is, like, Lothaire, let’s say. Like, I –

[Laughter]

Aarya: – like, he really skated that line for me, but in the end, it was okay. And of course her heroes aren’t like Lothaire; they’re, you know, like a level below in possessiveness and whatnot, but, like, she writes, she’s so good at it, and it’s, like, something we all love, and then she brings that exact kind of hero into the contemporary world, and they react similarly to, like, jealousy situations or being possessive, and I’m like, but I don’t want that person in real life. I don’t like you in real life. It’s, I don’t like that behavior.

Amanda: It’s funny you should mention that, because I feel like – and I might be jumping ahead, but fuck it, whatever – [laughs] –

Sarah: Oh, like that’s going to stop us.

Amanda: – but the hero in this one, Raj, I didn’t feel like he was alpha at all, so I feel like –

Aarya: That’s why, that’s why I liked this one.

Amanda: I, I, I thought he was a great hero, so I thought, I think it’s interesting that the contemporary we wound up choosing for the book club is kind of the exception –

Aarya: And I –

Amanda: – to that rule.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And maybe that, maybe that’s why it was selected! [Laughs]

Aarya: Well, I agree with you one hundred percent. It’s why I like this one so much. I mean, don’t – he’s still possessive, right? He, there’s like two moments I’m like, eh –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Yes!

Aarya: – I don’t like you that much, but for the most part it’s not like her other alpha heroes in contemporary; I like that.

Sarah: He’s very self-aware. I mean there’s –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – there are some major moments where he really makes a big mistake, and he has to sort of walk back that mistake and go over and be like, yeah, I totally screwed that up, but he’s very self-aware in a way that I really appreciated. I, I remember, like, for example, in, in your notes, Aarya, you talk about how there’s a scene early on where they’re, they’re working through this whole arranged marriage meeting, first meeting, and she puts way too much sugar in his tea?

Aarya: Oh my God, I love that scene.

Sarah: And, and it’s, and I loved it for so many reason. One: he has to drink it, because otherwise he’s insulting her family, and two –

Aarya: It’s so good.

Sarah: Yes! And she, she, he knows that she’s messing with him, but the thing I loved about it was that it was sugar. It was too sweet. It wasn’t salt; it wasn’t something like lemon juice; it was too sweet, and I loved the idea –

Amanda: And then when he calls her the next day, without missing a beat he asks, how many, how many things of sugar did you put in?

[Laughter]

Amanda: He doesn’t even hesitate. She’s like, seven.

Sarah: [Laughs] I loved that about them! Like, the –

Amanda: She doesn’t, like, try to play coy.

Sarah: No!

Amanda: She’s like, no, I did it. You’re right!

Sarah: Yeah, that was like a, a quarter cup of sugar, and you’re just going to have to deal. But the fact that it was sweetness, I just, that was just the perfect top to that one little scene where you had this sort of secret conversation going on between them.

Aarya: On the self-aware thing, like, so, like, the, in, like, when you first meet him he’s like, oh, I want a traditional wife that’ll, like, stay at home and – ‘cause I want, ‘cause I want a feeling of home –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: – and the reader’s like, well, we know the heroine’s, like, not like that, but, like, you still, like, like him because he’s like, oh – what did he say? I, like, it’s what I want, and it’s, I would never try to be with someone who isn’t that, because that would be bad for both of us. He’s very self-aware about what he wants, and I appreciate that, even though we all know he’s not going to end up with someone like that.

Amanda: And when it comes to the possessiveness, interestingly enough, we had this exact same conversation for my romance book club on Sunday, and we were reading The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley, and the hero in that one is very possessive, but he comes from a, a traumatic background where, you know, he’s on the autism spectrum; I believe he was, like, locked away in an institution for a while, and so he has these, like, very real feelings of, like, abandonment and trauma, and to me, I think it’s worth looking at if a hero or heroine is possessive, where is that stemming from? Is it stemming from, you know, like, Raj was abandoned, and he just wants to be loved, and he doesn’t want to be looked down upon. So I feel like I could forgive his few indiscretions – there weren’t a lot – but I can –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – forgive a few aspects because, like, I just saw how earnest he was in trying to just be loved and express his love?

Sarah: And he was thinking ahead, because what he was thinking about was, I want to have a family where my children know that they have a home that is safe and that there will be someone there to take care of them, and what he was trying to do was create a better future for himself and his future kids, and he had a very specific way of thinking that that was how it should happen? And I loved that he learns to, to, to bend, but the, like, you’re right, the, the reasoning behind it made his position understandable.

Aarya: He’s not being an alpha just because he’s dominant and domineering; he –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Right.

Aarya: – you know, like, like, he’s, he’s – I, I get what you’re saying; I agree completely.

Sarah: So what about the heroine, Nayna? What did you think of her?

Aarya: I love her so much, and I’m trying to –

Sarah: Oh my gosh, me too!

Aarya: I’m trying to think of, like, a specific reason why I love her, and it’s like, no, everything. Everything she does is why I love her.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Aarya: She – you know, there’s a scene when she’s, like, when her, one of her friends is like, oh, you don’t have to go through this arranged marriage thing, and she’s like, no, I’m not like that; I want my family to love me. I can’t just abandon them. Like, my family is so important to me, and it’s – everything she does, she’s so thoughtful towards everyone else. She loves her family –

Sarah: Yes.

Aarya: – so much, but she wants – like, like, she runs away. Well, she doesn’t run away, but, but she’s not willing to let her love of her family to destroy her own dreams, and that, to me, like, the fact that she got what she wanted and got that Happily Ever After, like, she got everything. She got to keep her family; she got to get her dreams. Like, that’s, she’s perfect.

Amanda: So I liked her for the most part, but there is, like, a caveat, and I think it kind of ties in to, like, our, our later discussion that will happen about the overall events and obstacles –

Aarya: Mm.

Amanda: – that Nayna and Raj have to go through, but I do like that, you know, Nayna’s very introspective, and she’s like, I, I want to get married, and I want to be supportive of my family, but, like, I need to find out who I am first, and I liked that she had that self-awareness of, like, I, I can’t marry someone, I can’t give someone that commitment when I’m still trying to figure out who I am as a person and what I want to do and my dreams and my goals, because it’s, it’s always hard being in a relationship when you’re in that state of flux on, like, a personal level.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: And I think it takes a degree of maturity, especially, you know, for a woman in her late twenties to realize, like, shit! You know, I’ve been living kind of in the shadow of my sister, trying not to make the same mistakes, trying to be loyal to my family, and I’ve spent so much time and energy doing that that I’ve kind of like forgotten to take care of myself. So I did like that about Nayna.

Aarya: What didn’t you like?

Amanda: However!

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Aarya: No, I’m curious!

Amanda: However – [laughs] – personality-wise, like, I had no problems with her. I liked that she, she was very upfront with Raj about, like, I’m, I’m not there yet. I’m not at the point where you are. I did not like the scene where she just, like, leaves but doesn’t really tell anyone. I thought she was running away. You might –

Aarya: Oh, I love that scene. [Laughs]

Amanda: – disagree. I, so, I’m thirty, roughly Nayna’s age, and I feel like that would be – and I’m coming from a different cultural perspective. Like, I, I moved out of my house, away from my parents, very early, very young, so I, I can understand Nayna needed, needing to get out of that space to give herself time to think. I just didn’t like the way it was done, I suppose, where she just kind of like, all right, I’m leaving, good-bye. You know, my best friend will, will handle everything. And I, I don’t say that out of, like – it really bothered me, and I can understand why it happened. I just wish the, the details were a little different of how it happened.

Aarya: No, I get that, because it’s –

Amanda: And that’s, that’s my only complaint.

Aarya: No, I understand, because it is such a big turn, right. Everything changes after that moment. I think the reason I didn’t have a problem with it is because she was so trapped, right? It’s not even that –

Amanda: Yeah, I agree.

Aarya: It’s not even that she has to go – like, she lives with her parents. Like, when you live with your parents that long and you’ve, like, never really lived alone and you have to go home to them every night, and you have to, like, take care of dinner and –

Amanda: There’s no privacy.

Aarya: It puts a –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: – drain on you, and it, like, when she’s panicking about her future and she thinks, oh my God, I’m getting married, like, in a couple months, like, I understand why she didn’t react – like, the best thing to do would have been, like, immediately talk to her parents and be like, I can’t do this, right, but she wasn’t ready to have that confrontation. Like, the most, like, mature thing to do would have gone, is to go to her parents and say, I can’t do this right now; I can’t marry him; give me time. But she wasn’t ready to have that confrontation.

Sarah: And they weren’t ready to hear that either.

Aarya: They weren’t ready – look how they reacted, like, right afterwards.

Amanda: I do love that scene, though.

Aarya: So they have to, like, she has to run away, and even though it’s not done in the most, like, best way possible, I don’t think she had a choice otherwise.

Sarah: I think of that scene like, I, when I first realized, like, whoa! She totally checked out! Like, she bailed; she is out of here. And I was sort of shocked, like it seemed so out of character, and then I realized, there’s, there’s a thing where I sort of, I, I, a term I use for when you’re sort of growing up and you hit your first, okay, no, I’m not doing this the way people expect, expect me to do it, and I call it playing the F-U card? Like, I am going to just say hard no to this. Like, absolutely no.

Aarya: Well, well, the title refers to her, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Yeah!

Aarya: Rebel Hard: I don’t think it’s the –

Sarah: See, that was her moment.

Aarya: I don’t think it’s Raj; I think it’s her. So –

Sarah: Oh, it’s totally her!

Aarya: Yeah, she’s rebelling!

Sarah: And the thing is, she, like you said, she gets everything she wants in the end! And I was so happy for her!

Amanda: I feel like at the end, when you have these romances where it’s clear that the, the main couple have two different visions of what, like, their Happily Ever After looks like and how are they going to come to that kind of agreement or compromise, and you know, sometimes it doesn’t shake out the way I want to. I feel like someone makes more concessions than the other or whatever, but in this case, I felt like it was such an even match where they really came to a fantastic arrangement where they’re both happy. I was happy with, like, how open they were about their communication and what they want and, you know, how they were going to meet in the middle? So I was, I was worried at first, given how Raj wanted a more traditional marriage arrangement with, you know, a wife who doesn’t necessarily work, who kind of takes care of the household, and Nayna’s upfront. She’s like, I don’t want that! Like, I don’t want – I want a career; I want adventure; I want to be able to do things. I feel like at the end their compromise that they, they have, no one’s really sacrificing anything.

Sarah: Yeah!

Aarya: And, okay, you know how the ending is kind of like a baby epilogue, right?

Amanda: See, I hate a baby epilogue –

Sarah: A little bit, yeah.

Amanda: – but I liked this one.

Aarya: So, well, that’s what, that’s exactly what I was going to say. And I think she had to show that, because how else could she have shown that it all worked out with the kids and the home and the, like, job obligations? Like, I feel like she had to show that.

Amanda: I think why it worked so well is because it was such a big time jump. It wasn’t like a month or a year; this was like seven years ahead.

Aarya: Not really a baby epilogue.

Amanda: Yeah! It’s like a, a future –

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: – a family epilogue! I don’t know, but I, I hate a baby epilogue, but I really liked this one, because I, because it jumped so far ahead and really showed like the solid foundation that they both have, and also filled in the, the blanks before their child was born –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and the arrangement they had with, like, work.

Sarah: And what she was doing.

Amanda: Yeah, I liked that.

Sarah: I also – and this is all very spoiler-y – sorry, folks! – one thing that I particularly, and this is a very personal thing, loved about that scene is that she’s got her kid in a backpack and they’re traveling. And –

Amanda: [Laughs] They’re, like, in Thailand –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – or, like, Indonesia.

Sarah: Yeah, and then when, when my older son, who’s now thirteen, when he was eight or nine months old, we took a trip to Montana, and we went backpacking, and I had him in a little hiking backpack, and I remember my grandmother was like, I can’t believe you are traveling so far on a plane with a baby, and I’m like, they’re so portable. Like –

[Laughter]

Sarah: – he was at the age –

Amanda: Just pick him up and go!

Sarah: Right? And he was at the age where if you put him down, he didn’t move very much, so he was extremely portable. And, like, we, we were in – where were we? – we were in Whitefish, Montana, and I, I called the grocery store ahead of time to make sure they had baby supplies, and this woman was like, what, where do you think you’re going? Of course we have baby supplies! I was a first-time mom. I, I, you know, give me – [laughs] – give me a small amount of slack; I was a first-time mom. But I tramped all over Whitefish Mountain – I think it’s Big Mountain; no, it’s Whitefish Mountain now – with, with my son in a, in a backpack, and so when we get to this scene where they’re traveling far, faraway places with their kid in a backpack, I’m like, yes! Yes, you are! That is awesome! Because it’s the, it’s the baby and the family, but it’s on their terms.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Oh, I love that so much. Okay. Aarya?

Aarya: Mm.

Sarah: It’s time.

Aarya: Oh, Bollywood allusions?

Sarah: Oh my gosh! So when I was reading this and we got to the first proposal, I was like, Nalini is just, just pouring the Pride and Prejudice allusions in here: there’s the bad proposal, there’s the letter, there’s all of these major beats, and then I was like, oh, wait, but that’s from a movie, and then, and then you wrote your notes, and I was like, ohhh my gosh, she poured everything she loves into this book. How many Bollywood allusions are there in this, in this thing?

Aarya: There’s so many, and I think I tried to count them, and then I gave up because –

Sarah: Yeah.

[Bollywood music]

[Laughter]

Aarya: Oh man!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Aarya: This is a, this is the song of my childhood, not a lie.

[music continues]

Sarah: Have you started dancing yet?

Aarya: My, my, my toes are twitching.

[Laughter, more music]

Aarya: You know, I can see the scene. Like, I know exactly what is happening in my head right now, but –

Sarah: Aw! So how many allusions and nods to different Bollywood films did you – there were so many scenes I was like, this is clearly a Bollywood scene; this is clearly a Bollywood scene. Like, were you delighted by that?

Aarya: I was, and you know, we all, there’s also so many Pride and Prejudice scenes, right? So there’s allusions, like, Raj reads the book, some of the scenes in there –

Sarah: Yes!

Aarya: – like Pride and Prejudice, but, and that’s really –

Sarah: [Laughs] And the construction workers!

Aarya: – and that’s, no – yeah, that was hilarious – but it’s really interesting because, like, a lot of Western readers would grasp that kind of homage and say, oh, this is so cool, and then you have that completely different kind of sector of readers like me who see, who see this other stuff, and we’re like, yes! We don’t ever see this –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: – ever! And then we all, like, tear, like, tear up in a curl and cry and whatnot.

Sarah: It really is like – and I don’t like to ascribe motivation or presume that I know what an author was doing, because most of the time I do not, but I really feel like Nalini was just taking everything that she loved and putting it in this book. Like, this movie, that series –

Aarya: One hundred percent. I agree with you.

Sarah: Right, and it’s just this glorious, like, hug of all the, all of the best love scenes and dramatic moments. So what were some that really jumped out at you?

Aarya: Okay, there’s so many. Okay, I’ll, I’ll stick to, like – okay, so the sister’s name is Madhuri, right? So –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: – that, I don’t know, this is maybe, maybe it’s not deliberate. It’s possible it’s unintentional?

Amanda: We have to get Nalini to, like, weigh in. [Laughs]

Aarya: I know. She has to annotate this.

Sarah: I am going to interview her. I am going to interview her. I can ask her.

Amanda: Yes.

Aarya: So the sister is named Madhuri, and there’s a really famous actress called Madhuri Dixit in the ‘80s and ‘90s who was such a beautiful and glamorous dancer, and she was, like, in all the big films, and the entire time I was picturing that actress as Madhuri, because she is just perfect fan casting for that, for that role. And at one –

Sarah: Aw!

Aarya: – do you remember the scene when they’re picking out saris and they’re like, you look like Madhuri Dixit and Aishwarya Rai?

Amanda: Yes.

Aarya: They’re like, oh, you look like –

Sarah: Yes!

Aarya: And I don’t – like, those two actresses are a very deliberate choice. They’re extremely glamorous. They’re, you know, beautiful dancers. Did I show, did, did you see that link I sent you, Sarah, with the song where they are both dancing in Devdas?

Sarah: Yes!

Aarya: So those two actresses, the ones that they reference in the, in the book, there’s a movie called Devdas, and it is such a beautiful dance. It is so beautiful, and but, like, I guess – Madhuri Dixit is amazing, and I think that is one clear very allusion. And then what else? So there’s a scene in the very beginning, and she’s seeing all those really terrible guys, and the guy is, like, rating her food.

Sarah: Yes.

Aarya: He’s like, this is a 4.5, and the grandma is like –

Amanda: Yeah, and the grandma’s like, I –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – I made it! [Laughs]

Aarya: Yeah. And it’s like the, like, she has so many bad attempts at matchmaking, so to speak, and that’s just like, there’s a scene when there’s so many, like, bad matches, and it’s, like, so awkward and so mortifying, and there’s, like, just many scenes like that. What else? Oh, should I talk about the disownment scene, which I think is really important?

Sarah: Oh, the one with, with the, the mom?

Aarya: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, please do –

Aarya: Yeah.

Sarah: – because this is –

Aarya: Okay.

Sarah: – so – I did not know this; this is amazing.

Amanda: I loved that scene –

Sarah: Oh my gosh, me too!

Amanda: – in this book, by the way.

Aarya: So it’s a really great scene independently, but it’s also really interesting if you think you – so, I feel like I’m putting, like, like Nalini, like, may not have thought this, but I am thinking this, so, like, I don’t know if this is, like, subconscious on her part or if it’s intentional. Okay, so, Amanda, do you want to, like, summarize what happens in the book?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Aarya: I feel like I’ve been talking a lot.

Amanda: No, it’s fine! If it’s the scene we’re all talking about, Nayna wants to move out, and the, her parents don’t take it extremely well. Her dad is like, if you do that I’m going to disown you; you’re not welcome in this house. And I think, you know, her parents are kind of carrying some leftover feelings about the fact that their eldest daughter ran away, and then there’s this moment when the mom – and throughout the book it’s kind of stressed that Nayna’s mom will kind of go along with, with whatever her, her dad is doing –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: Very docile –

Amanda: – but there’s this –

Aarya: – and traditional, so to speak.

Amanda: Yeah, there’s this moment when she announces that, and the dad is like, well, if you do that, you know, we’re disowning you; you’re note welcome in this house, and her mom loses. Her. Shit, and she’s like –

Sarah: It is majestic!

Amanda: – she’s like, this is not happening! I let you do this the first time. I didn’t get to talk to my eldest daughter for six years, and I’m not doing that again! And then they go out in the backyard and she throws a trashcan lid at him, and –

Aarya: It’s amazing.

Amanda: – it’s wonderful.

Aarya: And then –

Amanda: It’s probably my favorite scene in the book.

Aarya: – Raj says something like, this wasn’t in the script. Just like –

Amanda: Yeah! [Laughs] Like –

Aarya: – it was like, it’s, they talk about their lives as a movie so many times, like –

Sarah: It’s very meta.

Aarya: It’s, it’s amazing, yeah.

Amanda: But, like, I can, I can picture him doing it in, like, a stage whisper –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – a conspiratorial whisper.

Sarah: This was not how we blocked this scene, guys.

Aarya: So, yeah. So that’s exactly what happened, and again, I don’t know if this is intentional, but man –

Sarah: I think it is. I think it’s to –

Aarya: I, and I’ve been going back and forth on this. Like, what if this was just her thinking of it? And it’s like, no, but what if it’s an allusion to the movie? I’ll just say it.

Amanda: Nalini, you’ve got to tweet at us! Confirm or deny!

Aarya: I know! I’ll, I –

[Laughter]

Aarya: I will feel really dumb if this is not true and this is just me making things up. Okay, so the song that Sarah played from earlier is Kabhi Kushi Kabhie Gham, and in that movie there’s this really rich family. The oldest, adopted son is disowned because he marries this lower class girl, and the mom is, like, not okay with the estrangement, but she, she’s like Nayna’s mom. She’s, like, kind of docile, very traditional, but she abides by this, we’re not ever talking to, to that son again. And then this, this happens, this goes on for ten years, until the youngest son goes to London and, like, conspires to get all of them back together, and then there’s a scene at the very end when the mom, who, like Nayna’s mom is so – I, I, I don’t know if docile is the right term? Just very reverent to what the dad wants. I don’t what you’d call that.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: She, like, acquiesces to, like, what –

Aarya: Yeah, referential is maybe the right – like, I don’t, I feel –

Sarah: Deferential.

Aarya: I think docile is a – I’m not one of, I’m not trying to say that she’s docile. She’s very, she’s very strong, right?

Amanda: ‘Cause I wouldn’t say, like, she’s –

Sarah: She’s just deferential!

Amanda: She’s not a submissive wife, but, like, you know –

Sarah: No, she defers to him.

Aarya: Yes.

Sarah: She defers to his, his authority.

Aarya: But also, even though she was against the estrangement, she didn’t say, oh, I’m going to go against you and talk to my son for ten years. But there’s this, in the film, there’s a moment –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: Like, this is – she hasn’t talked to, to her son for ten years, and she’s, like, kind of like almost dead inside, and she says, like – this is an approximation quote – she says like, my mother told me that a husband is like a god. No matter what he says, no matter what he thinks, he’s always right. You brought the son home today: right. We gave him love: right. He became part of our family: right. And then one day he left home and went away: wrong. You let him leave: wrong. You separated a mother from her child: wrong. Our family shattered to pieces: wrong. And then she says, well then how does a husband become God? God can’t do any wrong, can he? My husband is just a husband, not God. And then she leaves, and it’s so emotional, and I always cry at the scene, because she is the reason why this entire estrangement ends, because she finally stands up to him, and she’s like, I cannot take this anymore. It’s been ten years; I want my son back. Stop being a moron and just end this!

[Laughter]

Aarya: She doesn’t say that, but I think the connotation was clear.

Sarah: And she reaches a point where she’s like, why? Why is, why?

Aarya: Just because he married someone that they don’t approve of. Like, this is not a reason.

Amanda: And I think that scene was also, like, a good breaking point for Nayna to, to show that, like, you know, at least her mom doesn’t see her as her older sister. Her mom doesn’t want to repeat the mistakes of the past. There is a separation between the two of them, you know, because a lot of, like, a lot of Nayna’s insecurities have to do with her sister. You know, Nayna constantly talks about how she’s, like, flat-chested and she has to wear glasses, and her sister’s so beautiful, and the first time –

Sarah: That scene? That scene where she describes herself as a negative?

Aarya: Aw!

Amanda: I know, and the first time –

Sarah: Oh my God, it broke –

Amanda: – she brings, like, Raj around, she’s like, she’s not worried, but she’s like, every, every man always looks at her, you know.

Aarya: But it’s also, I don’t know if you noticed, her sister has lighter skin than she does. And –

Amanda: I didn’t pick up on that.

Aarya: – so – nonono, they mention it all the time, and it’s – she doesn’t actually think, oh, my sister has lighter skin and she’s more beautiful, ‘cause she doesn’t think that. Like, she knows, she has self-worth. But she’s aware that there’s this perception among society that her sister is lighter-skinned. Everyone thinks that that is a marker of beauty. She’s compared to lighter-skinned actresses.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Aarya: Her – and she is dark-skinned.

Amanda: There is that moment where, it’s one of, like, the arranged dates and one of the –

Aarya: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – parents of the date, like, mentions something about how her skin is darker, and, like, her, her dad says something in relation to that, like saying, you know, like, my daughter’s beautiful, and you know, he’s an idiot if he doesn’t think you’re beautiful. But that was the only time I, I picked up on it.

Sarah: She refers to her, her dark skin a lot, and, and her –

Aarya: Yes, and Madhuri’s light skin.

Sarah: Yeah, constantly –

Aarya: Constantly.

Sarah: – and it’s, and it’s this additional layer to the, to seeing herself as the negative of, of her sister, that she’s not going to do what her sister did, she’s going to obey all of the rules, and she’s not perceived as worth as much because she has dark skin. She’s constantly looking at her-, at herself, and there’s, there’s all these little tiny moments where she sort of pushes her self-esteem back up a little bit?

Amanda: Carrie, are you here?

Carrie: Hi!

Amanda and Sarah: Hi, Carrie!

Carrie: Hi!

Sarah: Carrie, Aarya, let’s, let’s talk about Rock Hard, or Rebel Hard! We’re not rocking; we’re rebelling! Wrong one! We’re, wrong –

Amanda: Rock Hard is another one.

Sarah: Wrong hardness; my apologies.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: We were talking about all of the Bollywood references and the Pride and Prejudice references. I imagine the Pride and Prejudice references just ran up and gave you a massive hug, yeah?

Carrie: Yes, they did, but also, I’m in the middle of this string of reading these adaptations of Pride and Prejudice, and so by now, to be honest, like, the actual references to me just kind of seem like, well, every book is like that, right?

[Laughter]

Sarah: They’re all Pride and Prejudice now.

Carrie: Yes. Yeah, I, I did, I did really like that. And it, I, I really kind of want to read it again in light of – because I, when I approached it, I didn’t really approach it in that light, and so I want to kind of go back and read it again from that light. But yeah, you know, you’ve got the sister with the scandal and the –

Sarah: Terrible proposal. Oh, dude.

Carrie: – terrible proposal. I don’t remember; did we have – well, the, oh! The, there was, like, several relatives that kept getting sick, but his dad –

[Laughter]

Carrie: – you know, have with the, well, since I’m dying, you’d better get married right now, and I’m like, whoa, okay!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Aarya, I’m, I’m not sure, because, like, I don’t have an extensive knowledge of, like, Bollywood movies, but I watch a lot of Korean dramas, and it’s not a Korean drama unless someone gets a terminal illness?

Aarya: [Gasps]

Amanda: Is, like –

Aarya: I don’t know if that’s true in every Bollywood movie.

Amanda: But, like, is there always –

Aarya: But it’s really not out of place.

Amanda: That someone gets, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – you know, really sick. Is that, like, a common thing in, like – [laughs] – Bollywood movies?

Aarya: I don’t know if the getting really sick thing is common. I know, I think that a parent, the parental guilt tripping was A+.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: Whoa! Oh, that’s –

Aarya: That was A+.

Sarah: That is just – I have this theory that to identify a culture, you need to identify what item they wrap in a dough and then cook in some way, and then you need to know how much guilt can be leveraged by parents.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That, that’s how you identify; like, how much guilt, and what are we wrapping in pastry or dough and then doing something with? And then you’ll know. Like, that’s all.

Did you have a favorite scene in this book?

Carrie: Are you, are you asking me?

Sarah: I’m asking all of you –

Carrie: Well –

Sarah: – so you can all talk at the same time.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: No, Carrie, go first, if you have a favorite scene.

Carrie: No, I just madly raced into the house screaming –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: – it’s time and I’m late for work! So yeah, so I had a little bit of traffic on the way home. So –

Sarah: In California? No!

Carrie: – you go first while I frame my thoughts, and then I’ll sound, like, oh my God, so dazzlingly intelligent, not –

Amanda: So we already mentioned the, the mom’s scene.

Sarah: Mom throws a trashcan lid.

Amanda: I loved it. That is –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – probably my, one of my favorites, and I know this is a very minor thing, but it made me laugh in, like, a stupid way – [laughs] – when one of Raj’s, like, construction workers called Sense and Sensibility Sense and Shampoo?

[Laughter]

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: I don’t know why, but – [laughing] –

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: – that was the funniest thing I’ve ever heard!

Sarah: I would read an entire book of Raj and his crew giving him shit. Like, those were some of my – that, you could see, that what his other family? That they felt comfortable enough to give him shit and that he would get teased for all of the things that, that, that Nayna would bring him, and there was this community that was like, you’re the boss, but we’re still going to give you shit for all this, ‘cause this is hilarious.

Amanda: And, like, Nayna sends him flowers –

Aarya: Aw, yeah.

Amanda: – to his work site? [Laughs] Ohhh!

Sarah: Girl, that’s a baller move right there. That is hella baller right there.

Aarya: My head canon is that they have a book club at the construction site every week.

Amanda: Oh, I would love that.

Sarah: Oh my God, I’m going to email Nalini and be like – ‘cause you know, if you subscribe to her newsletter – I think this is so brilliant – she will send out short fiction, deleted scenes, little stories of her characters, you know, between her, you know, after the books, and I, I really want her to now write the construction crew –

Carrie: Yes!

Sarah: – book club? Like, like, they’re, all right, book club meeting, and what, what food does Nayna bring, and what book are they – ? Oh my God, Aarya, that is the great-, greatest idea.

Carrie: But see, I think –

Sarah: She’s going to be like, what are you talking about, Sarah?

Carrie: I think they have a book club, but they have a guy book club. So, so in my limited experience, right, guys, they don’t want to set the meeting, right? They don’t want to be sitting around. But at work it’s obvious that they’re talking about the books all the time. Like, when they all –

Sarah: Right, while they’re taping drywall.

Carrie: Yeah, when they all agree that Wickham is a loser. So it’s like the construction site book club –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: – and why is it not a sit com already? I just –

Aarya: This would be so good televised.

Sarah: What, the, the, the construction crew –

Aarya: Yeah, I think this would be a great, like, TV movie. No, the, the book in general. I think it’d be a great movie.

Sarah: Oh, it would be so good, wouldn’t it? It would be an incredible Bollywood movie. Or miniseries! It would be a good miniseries.

Amanda: Just for, like, the scene where, you know, a bunch of buff construction guys are talking about –

Sarah: Sense and Shampoo!

[Laughter]

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Aarya, what about you? Did you have a favorite scene, aside from Mom’s going to throw a trashcan lid at you because you’ve been an idiot?

Aarya: Yes. I’ve writ-, this is my, this, I don’t know if other people connected to this scene like I did. There is a scene where Madhuri is helping Nayna put on a sari before that –

Sarah: Yes!

Aarya: – this person’s wedding who I kind of forgot the name of, but –

Amanda: [tk]

Aarya: Yeah, that’s her. And Nayna’s like, oh, it’s so hard to put on a sari. Madhuri’s, like, so good at it. It’s, like, one more example of how she’s, like, not as good as her sister, you know? It’s like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: – it’s like she sees that Madhuri can wrap this really complex sari, and she’s like, I can’t do that almost, and then, but Madhuri, like, comes over and helps her and they laugh and they tease, and it’s like, I don’t know, it’s, so – I don’t know –

Amanda: And they pick out earrings. Like, she asks, hey –

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: – do you want to color block your earrings? It was like –

Aarya: I don’t know if you’ve ever put on a sari. It is really –

Amanda: No, I have not.

Aarya: So I have, I have three weddings this year. I went to one –

Sarah: Oh dude.

Aarya: Yeah, I went to one in January, I have one in two weeks, I have another one in August, and I’m actually not wearing a sari because I hate it so much. It’s –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Aarya: Well, it’s not that I hate it; it’s just, everyone in my family is so terrible at wrapping them, and we rely on other family members to help us, and it’s just easier for me to wear a lehenga and just forget about it. But it’s like, it’s, I think, like, a sari’s, it’s really the most beautiful clothing you can have, and I would love to wear it –

Sarah: Oh, it’s beautiful!

Aarya: – but it is so hard to wear it, and having someone help you put that on is, it’s just really special.

Sarah: It’s very intimate. Are these weddings the kind of affairs where the wedding is several days of celebration?

Aarya: It depends. The one in two weeks is. I’m going, I’m going to New Jersey for like four days. That’ll be fun. [Laughs] I’ll show pictures on my Twitter.

Sarah: Ooh.

Aarya: I usually do, so yeah.

Sarah: Oh please! Yeah, I can understand that’s a lot of silk to wrap around and manage.

Aarya: It’s not just the wrapping around; it’s the pleats. It is –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: It’s really, it’s, it’s hard. I’ve, I’ve watched my aunt help my mom with it, and I can’t do it.

Sarah: Now I want to see a romance scene between a Scotsman who wears kilts and pleats his kilts and an Indian woman who needs to put on a sari, and have them help each other.

Amanda: And they’d be like, I got this.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yeah, move your bagpipes, babe; I’ve got this problem solved for you. [Laughs] Carrie, what about you? Do you have a favorite scene?

Carrie: Well, so my favorite two have already been mentioned, but then after that, like, anything with the cool grandma.

Amanda: Oh, that grandma!

Sarah: Thank you for bringing her up!

Amanda: That grandma!

Sarah: I loved her so much!

Carrie: I, I worship the ground on which she walks, and, and I kind of feel like the very first scene where she talks about having a little romance with the neighbor, like, like, that’s where, in my notes, I was like, ooh, grandma! But I, anything she’s in is, like, a super-happy, awesome scene.

Sarah: You’re so right. I – thank you for bringing her up, because if we had recorded this whole thing and not mentioned her grandmother I would have been like, damn it! That was not wise of me! She was so great.

Amanda: I, I think she was my favorite character. [Laughs]

Sarah: I loved her romance too. I wanted to see more of it!

Amanda: I wonder if Nalini wrote any, like, short, short fiction.

Sarah: Poor Nalini, she’s going to wake up and be like, Sarah, what is this email?

[Laughter]

Amanda: For the latest Ripped Bodice bingo board, there’s a square for sassy grandparent.

Aarya: Oh, this fits!

Amanda: This, this fills –

Sarah: Oh, this qualifies!

Amanda: – sassy grandparent square! [Laughs] Just, like, the first scene where Nayna’s, like, sneaking out to go to that party where she meets Raj, and the grandma knows! She’s, she’s like –

Sarah: Go have fun, dear!

Amanda: – I’ll distract your parents! Like, she’s so great.

Carrie: I would really love to read a romance novel or novella about the grandma’s romance with the neighbor.

Sarah: Yeah. She was just adorable.

Carrie: And how that all started, and, and maybe it wouldn’t fly because it wouldn’t be super-dramatic, but, you know, she actually has a lot to her besides sassy grandma, and she’s recovering from loss, think she’s acting in a way that’s different than what’s expected of her in, in, in a really complicated family situation, and I, I, I just, we don’t have –

Amanda: Well, there’s a moment where they go to, I think it’s like a wedding, and the grandmother has, like, chest pains and has to go to the hospital, and she asks, like, Nayna to go over to the neighbor’s house and, like, let him know –

Sarah: Aw!

Amanda: – that she’s sorry. Like, you know, sorry for bailing and explain why, and then of course, like, the grandmother calls Raj when something happens to the neighbor. But they’re adorable, and I would second Carrie’s suggestion of the grandmother getting her own book. [Laughs]

Aarya: Oh, this is, I don’t know if this is related. Did we talk about the fact that they’re both virgins?

Amanda: Oh my God, that was great.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Amanda, you are in favor of this?

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, ‘cause he, like, mentions, he’s like, our first time, and she’s like, you mean our first time together, and he’s like, no, it’s also my first time. It, it was cute. I loved it; it was great.

Sarah: That was some super-hot bedtime talk.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And he’s so confident and yet very accepting of this, and it was like, wow. I – Aarya, what was your reaction to that?

Aarya: Okay, there’s a part of me that’s like, how’s it going so well if it’s both their first times?

[Laughter]

Aarya: But once I got past that, I really got swept up in the fantasy and the romance of it all, so it definitely goes very well for a first time, but it’s okay. Okay.

Amanda: Well, like, so it’s funny; whenever there’s, like, a first-time scene, I always, like, roll my fucking eyes –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – because my first time was in my boyfriend’s bedroom, which was painted lime green and covered wall-to-wall in Slipknot posters, so, like –

Sarah: That’s very hot.

Amanda: – that is, like, that was my first time, and yeah, and I remember asking, is this it? And out loud to my boyfriend at the time!

Sarah: No!

Amanda: So it’s so lovely when everything goes well and they’re both virgins, and you know, like, the internet exists. I’m sure they know what goes where, and they have great chemistry, but whenever it’s someone’s, like, first time in a book, I just have to laugh at my own first.

Aarya: My question was, have you ever read a book where they’re both virgins? ‘Cause I was thinking, well, besides this and a few Psy-Changeling, like, Psy novels, I can’t think of a book where they’re both virgins.

Amanda: It, it also depends on, like, how you define virginity –

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: – because in a lot of the Immortals After Dark series, like, for example, the demon heroes – and I think we’ve talked about this, Sarah – they can have sex –

Aarya: Oh, yeah.

Amanda: – but they can’t, they can’t come unless they’re with their, like, fated mate.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: There’s no, like, actual release.

Aarya: And the vampires can’t have sex –

Sarah: Right.

Aarya: – once they freeze, right? Yeah.

Amanda: Yes, with their heart. Like, their heart stops beating. So in that aspect, maybe? But in terms of a contemporary-set book where no one has weird, like, sex restrictions –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – I can’t think of one.

Sarah: No, I, I was really, when you, when you posed that question, Aarya, I was really thinking about it, and I cannot remember the last time I read –

Amanda: I’m sure someone will chime in with the comments like, what about this book?

Sarah: Oh, I’m sure!

Amanda: And we’re like, oh dang it, that’s right! What about that book? [Laughs]

Sarah: Wow.

Carrie: Well, I mean, inspirationals, obviously, but, but then in the inspirationals, you never see them have the first sex!

Amanda: No, it’s alluded to off the page.

Carrie: All the sex is off the page. It doesn’t really apply! Which, I really like reading where the first time people have sex doesn’t go well. And I did note that, that, that Raj points out that she’s going to have to come first, because he’s going to be like –

Aarya: [Laughs]

Carrie: – two seconds and done! [Laughs]

Sarah: I did love that. I loved that so much.

Amanda: He knows his limits.

Carrie: I thought that was so thoughtful and realistic, so yeah, it goes well, but it doesn’t go, like, supernaturally well, where now he has the stamina to go for hours!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Ohhh! All right, so what grade would you give this book? I do want to mention that Elyse had to tap out of this episode, but she wanted to make sure to mention that she would give this an A, and she stayed up until, like, 2 a.m. on a Saturday reading it, so what would you guys grade this book? Amanda, you want to go first?

Amanda: Sure! I think I would give it a B+. I really loved – it’s kind of like a very, I wouldn’t call it a slow burn, but it’s like a, a lovely subtle relationship, courtship, and I didn’t have any main issues with the hero or heroine that, like, drove me up a wall. My complaints would be the aforementioned runaway scene, and it also has a lot of ups and downs that I was not expecting.

Sarah: Oh yeah. This has a very Bollywood-movie plotline. Like, there’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – thing after thing after thing.

Amanda: Instead of, like, linear, it’s like, peak, valley, peak, valley! Like, it’s just –

Sarah: Oh yeah. Very episodic.

Amanda: – up and down. And it has, I wouldn’t call it a trope, but an element that I don’t normally enjoy in any romance, and that’s kind of the villainous woman, and I know that’s common in a lot –

Aarya: The sister-in-law?

Amanda: Yeah! I did not like that at all, and I don’t like, in any books, I don’t like the jealous ex or just, like, the woman who’s there just to cause a problem.

Aarya: You know what that was an allusion to, though?

Amanda: I, I had a feeling it was –

Aarya: You know –

Amanda: – like, an allusion to something. [Laughs]

Aarya: Okay, you know how they keep on talking about how the, the parents watched the soap operas?

Amanda: Yes.

Aarya: And every once in a while they’ll be like, and now the sister-in-law is doing something?

Sarah: I saw that, and I was like, ohhh, yes.

Aarya: It was like, so, like, so I watched – I don’t watch soap operas; sometimes in the background when I’m in the room, but – [laughs] – that, that, the sister-in-law is like, I know it’s like, oh, we don’t like evil ex, and you know, I don’t like evil ex either, but it’s like, that’s, that’s just like, the fact that there’s a sister-in-law, like, causing trouble in the end by tattle-taling on the grandparents –

Amanda: Yes.

Aarya: – that felt very soap-opera-y, like, to me.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And then there was also that one-off –

Aarya: But she had a happy ending!

Amanda: She did.

Aarya: Like, I was, so I was glad for that.

Amanda: There was that one-off scene –

Aarya: They, they all had happy endings.

Amanda: -with Nayna’s coworker who suddenly, like, shows an interest in her and, like, wants to take her to the museum that I was like, okay, dude. But also, maybe I missed it, but towards the end, where there is that big scene with the sister-in-law and, like, Nayna comes back and, like, puts her foot down, the, Raj’s mom mentions that, like, she’ll reveal – what’s her name, Komal? – Komal’s secret?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And she mentions, like, an island off of Fiji, and we, like, Komal goes, like, ghostly white dirt like –

Aarya: [Laughs]

Amanda: – but I don’t know what the secret was! I don’t know if it was revealed and I missed it?

Sarah: No, I –

Aarya: It was not revealed.

Amanda: Okay!

Sarah: I bet it’s in a different book.

Amanda: That drove me bonkers! I was like, what is the secret?!

Sarah: [Sings] Soap opera!

Amanda: But I didn’t know if that was, like, an allusion or a reference to something that just goes over my head?

Aarya: I think it’s just left to our imaginations.

Amanda: Oh boy.

Aarya: How horrible could it be? Yeah.

Amanda: I hate that. I need someone to tell me exactly what is going on! But I would give it a B+. I really enjoyed it; I really loved how – we use this phrase a lot on the site lately, and I love it – how emotionally fluent both –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – of the main characters are, and I feel like they, instead of, like, a Big Misunderstanding, they’re very great about communicating with one another. So yeah, definitely B+ for me. This one was great; I liked it.

Sarah: Carrie, what about you? What would you grade this book?

Carrie: So I would give it a B+. I had forgotten about the island off Fiji thing, but yeah, that was super irritating. And –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: It was! And I, and why would you – no. And, and also, I also did not like the storyline with the sister-in-law. In Pride and Prejudice terms, I think she would be like a Caroline Bingley –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – type? But –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – you know what? I, I, I’m not crazy about the Caroline Bingley storyline either. I’m sorry, I just am not. With the ending – [sighs] – I’m, I’m a dark and cynical soul with a cold, empty heart, and the idea that –

Sarah: What?!

Carrie: No, listen! With this regard: so the happy ending is, he’s going to find someone where he can delegate his work responsibilities, uh-huh?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: Okay, maybe. And he’s going to get –

Sarah: Right.

Carrie: – his alcoholic brother to step up and help take care of his parents, and I’m like, honey, that’s never going to happen. Even if the alcoholic brother, like, he may have turned a corner, he may be sober from now till the rest of his life; he may be a total mensch, but I feel like I’ve watched this happen in so many families, including my own, where I am not a caregiving sibling, where once somebody becomes the primary caregiving sibling to older, older parents or other family members, you’re really in it for life unless you have really solid boundaries. I know it’s a romance, and so, you know, we, we think optimistically and well of the characters around, but I’m like, yeah, no. That’s, that, you’re not going to travel the world with the baby; you’re going to, you’re going to be there forever. But you know, maybe that’s, maybe that’s overly dark. I just, I didn’t quite believe it.

Amanda: Yeah, Carrie, when you described yourself as, like, dark and cynical, it was like, Carrie, who are you? This isn’t the Carrie I know!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: So I guess, I just, in this – so I always joke, right, in my reviews about my cold, icy heart, but in this regard, I would say I am pretty cynical, but I am cynical based on –

Sarah: A lot of experience.

Carrie: – experience, right?

Amanda: I feel like we all have a certain, like, button or issue that we really –

Carrie: Yeah.

Amanda: – have a lot of emotional experience with?

Carrie: So I have one line, one line that knocks it down from an A, and that is – wait, let me, let me find it –

Aarya: Is it my line? Because I also have a line that knocks it down from an A.

Carrie: This: her breasts were sulking.

[Laughter]

Aarya: Oh, that’s not my line.

Carrie: That’s, no. That’s not, not cool. Not cool, man. I, I can’t, I can’t roll with that.

Amanda: Just –

Carrie: I think it’s like a B+++++, but I can’t quite give it an A because of the sulking boobs, and –

Amanda: What? Are you, Carrie, are you saying that, like, only I have moody, pouting breasts, just sulking around?

Carrie: Oh, no.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: They’re moody and pouting?

Amanda: [Laughs] Just really sullen all the time.

Carrie: I, I mean, I have, I have met you, and I have remembered thinking to myself, wow Amanda has really sullen, pouting breasts! [Laughs]

Sarah: Sulky boobs aside, Aarya, what is your line, and what grade would you give this?

Aarya: It goes back to that contemporary alpha thing I had earlier, and un-, and it’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: – he’s really great for the most part, and there’s two things that I’m like, eh, Raj. And it’s –

[Laughter]

Aarya: – and it’s like, oh, wait, he sees that white guy checking Nayna out –

Amanda: Yes.

Aarya: – and immediately he’s like –

Sarah: Yeah!

Aarya: – try anything and I’ll break you in half! And the guy isn’t doing anything! He’s just like, oh, that’s an attractive woman, and he’s like, maybe I should go up and get her number.

Amanda: And the guy, in all fairness, like –

Aarya: Yeah.

Amanda: – takes it on the chin, and it doesn’t, like, turn into kind of like a machismo sort of like stand-off between the two of them. The guy’s like, dude, she’s hot! Like, what do you want? Like – [laughs]

Aarya: If Raj was a werewolf, I would have bought this line one hundred percent, but he is not a werewolf, and I was like, no. This is not something people say. Well, maybe people do say it, but I think it’s creepy and bad.

Amanda: Nalini, can you make a short fiction where Raj turns into a werewolf? Thank you, please.

Aarya: I would watch that. And the other line – okay, you know the sister had that friend –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: Yes!

Aarya: With the, Harlow Chan?

Sarah: Yes! It was the cutest friendship!

Aarya: And it, it is cute, but she’s, like, she thinks that her parents will, won’t let her hang out with this boy, and Raj smooths things over, and that was good, and then he’s like, as long as his sister kept the images she sent Harlow Chan G-rated, Raj wouldn’t have to find the boy and smash his phone to smithereens, and I’m just like, she’s seventeen. Give me a break.

[Laughter]

Aarya: Like, I, it’s like, the annoying stuff, like, just peeked out like the two or three times –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: – and that’s just like, it’s, like it wasn’t constant, right. It’s not, I don’t think it’s like the other contemporaries where I, I had real problems with, so it’s very minor –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Aarya: – but it’s a B+ for me because of that.

Amanda: It’s funny; the –

Sarah: Yeah. I can see that.

Amanda: – the smashing the phone thing, like, I’m, I’m never okay with scenes where, like, dads or brothers, like, assert themselves in the heroine’s love life, but I have a younger brother. He’s twenty-five to my thirty, and he’s a very serious young man, and I –

Sarah: He’s very serious.

Amanda: – I will get conversations with him, and I’ve been dating a guy for three years, and he’ll just want to talk. He’s like, where do you see this going? What are his intentions? It’s like, listen, okay? Like, I was driving you to school. I am thirty years old. Leave me alone! He’s like, I just don’t want you to get hurt, sis! I was like, I am thirty years old.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So I was more forgiving in that aspect.

Sarah: I would watch that television show, by the way. Zack giving you relationship advice? I would watch that.

Amanda: We’re an odd couple in terms of –

Sarah: You’re adorable!

Amanda: – brother/sister relationships. [Laughs]

Sarah: You guys are adorable, though.

Amanda: Thanks.

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: Sarah, what’s your grade?

Sarah: Oh, definitely a B+

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: I, once I was on board with what you said, like the peaks and valleys, and once I sort of got the different narrative beats of this –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – particular book, I was like, I am fine for as many episodes as this book holds, because this is delightful! The, the sister-in-law drama at the very end, I was like, well, that kind of came out of nowhere. What was, what was the point of that? But they just kind of needed to get to that point in their relationship where they were like, uh no, we’re not tolerating any of this crap. I loved the, the epilogue so much. I loved it so much! But yeah, it is a solid B+, and I am so glad that I read this, because like you, Aarya, I had stayed away from the contemporaries because I also do not like rock stars, and I don’t like alpha males in contemporaries that sort of come preinstalled with a very high degree of entitlement? Not my thing. So yeah, I’m really glad we got to read this.

Amanda: Like, what I think is interesting is that the, I think it’s the next book in the series is Isa and Sailor?

Aarya: It happens during this book, though –

Amanda: But I think their book –

Sarah: Yeah.

Aarya: – I feel like.

Amanda: Yeah! It’s, it’s happening simultaneously to this book, because at the end of Rebel Hard they’re married, so I’m assuming, like, yeah, Isa and Sailor’s relationship and HEA is happening tangentially to Raj and Nayna’s, which I, I’m curious going on to reading that one and seeing, like, what I could pick up on in the background, if that makes any sense.

Sarah: Yeah. I’m always fascinated by books where the writer has two stories that are going on concurrently and they hinge at certain scenes?

Amanda: That’s too much work.

Sarah: That’s astonishing. Like, it’s just astonishing to me.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. I want to thank Aarya and Carrie and Amanda for hanging out with me, and we all want to thank Nalini Singh for writing this book, ‘cause we really had a good time.

Most of all, thank you to the Patreon community, who made suggestions as to which book we should read this quarter, and if you would like to pick next quarter’s book, have a look at our Patreon: patreon.com/SmartBitches. They get a survey to tell us what book we should read, and then we look at all the answers and go, oh, wow! These are all good books, and we have to pick one, and that’s going to be difficult.

If you would like to email us ‘cause you have thoughts on this episode or you have suggestions, we would really like to hear from you. You can email me at [email protected], or you can leave a voicemail at 1-201-371-3272 and leave a voicemail. I love those. It’s very cool when you call.

You can find Aarya on Twitter @Aarya_Marsden, you can find Amanda @_ImAnAdult on Twitter, and you can find all of us at smartbitchestrashybooks.com.

This week’s episode is being brought to you by Rogue Most Wanted by Janna MacGregor, the latest in the Cavensham Heiresses series. It is a Smart Bitches Hide Your Wallet pick for June 2019! Yes, it is; that is true! When an upstart duke challenges Lady Theodora Worth’s claim to her inherited Scottish earldom and the Ladykyrk estate, Thea is suddenly in need of a husband – in name, at least. An elderly neighbor with a thoroughly modern sensibility and a dashing great-nephew just might be the answer to Thea’s prayers. Ever since he was jilted as a young man, Lord William Cavensham has been entirely too devoted to his family’s estate to wed, but he agrees to meet the woman his aunt has taken under her wing and introduce her to possible suitors. But after just one meeting with beautiful, spirited Thea, Will is determined to help her reclaim her title. And even more so, he can’t stop thinking that perhaps marriage to this bold and passionate woman may be the one thing he’s been missing all along. Redheadedgirl says that Janna MacGregor writes like a warm, cozy blanket. If you love Eloisa James’s humor and Christi Caldwell’s passion, then Rogue Most Wanted is for you. Rogue Most Wanted by Janna MacGregor will be available wherever books are sold on June 25th, 2019.

The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her @SassyOutwater on Twitter. This is an artist from Spain who performs under the name Hevia, or in Spanish Eh-vee-ah. This song is called “Son del Busgosu,” and it is from the album The Other Side. You can find this album on iTunes or at Amazon, and I will have links in the show notes.

Speaking of the show notes, I will have links to all of the movies and books and television shows we spoke about, and I will have some links to some of the videos that Aarya talked about as well. Please be aware, they’re incredibly danceable and addictive, and I’m sorry in advance.

Coming up on Smart Bitches this week: it is time for one of our most popular, most anticipated posts, Whatcha Reading? We tell you what we’re reading, and you tell us what you’re reading, and then we all buy more books. I am going to be paying very close attention to this edition of Whatcha Reading, because I am going on vacation soon, and I have a lot of hours for reading scheduled in my agenda of doing absolutely nothing. So I am very curious: what are you reading that you want to tell people about? Come tell us on Saturday.

We will also have reviews for audiobooks and new releases, plus a new edition of Cover Snark, another Bachelorette recap, and, by request, a Rec League inspired by a recent podcast episode. Plus, we have Help a Bitch Out and Books on Sale every day, so I hope you will come and hang out with us.

This week’s joke is pretty terrible, but this is your prize! You get to the end of the episode, you get a joke. You get a joke that will make all of your friends cringe! That’s a win-win for everybody, right? Of course it is. So here we go. You ready?

How did the farmer find his wife in the fields?

Give up? How did the farmer find his wife in the fields?

He tracked her down.

[Laughs] It’s so stupid! This joke is from Clairem on Reddit. Thank you, Claire! He tractor down! [Laughs more] It’s one of those really obvious ones that you get to the punch line and you’re like, oh, yeah, he tractor down. Oh, that’s not very funny, except that it is ‘cause it’s terrible! I love the bad jokes every week.

Thank you to everyone who emailed me and left comments regarding our loss of Orville, our Executive Sound Engineer cat. Your comments and support and condolences mean a lot, and it helps to know that you understand how awful it is when you lose a pet. But given that every other animal that lives in my house is now corralled around my desk chair, everyone here is supporting me as well, so thank you for letting me know your condolences. I really appreciate it.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading, and we will see you back here next week. Have a great weekend.

[great music]