710. Writing Characters with Chronic Illness (Plus Restaurant Recs!!) with Riss M. Neilson

[intro]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there, and welcome to episode number 710 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and my guest today is Riss M. Neilson. Riss’s new book, The Bridge Back to You, is out now. This is a second-chance love story between two exes who unexpectedly inherit shares of the same restaurant – the restaurant that he runs and that she kind of ran away from. There is so much to talk about in this book. We are going to talk about characters with chronic illnesses like endometriosis, about mental illnesses like OCD. We talk about the astrology of her characters and what insight she gains from their charts. And then Riss gives us a list of restaurants to try if we are ever in Providence, Rhode Island. Plus, Riss even expands on my theory about which foods are the universal expression of human love. So we’ve got food; we’ve got representation discussion. This is a really good conversation; I’m very excited to share it with you.

I have a compliment this week! This compliment is for Landon.

Landon, neurologists already know that feelings of happiness are driven by different levels of serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin. A fifth chemical component of happiness which is similar to the happiness of finishing a wonderful book combined with the restorative power of a really good hug is currently being studied, and researchers have named it after you.

If you would like to support the show, patreon.com/SmartBitches. Our Patreon community is amazing. They are the most welcoming and lovely humans. We have a Discord where it is a joy to check in with everyone every day. And the Patreon community keeps the show going, helps me make sure that I have a transcript from garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! – [Hey yourself! – gk] – and our Patreon community is the reason there are no dynamic ads before or after new episodes of this show. Your membership means a tremendous, tremendous amount, so thank you if you are part of the Patreon, and if you’re curious, please have a look: patreon.com/SmartBitches.

We have a sponsor for this week’s episode! Support for this episode comes from Savage Bonds, book two in the Shadowmist Pack series by E. V. Mitchell. If you are look for a body-positive, slow-burn romance with very spicy scenes, knotting, an emotional support glory hole, and shared psychic orgasms – I know you’re listening now – listen up:

A gritty paranormal shifter romance, Savage Bonds follows Lithia, the first female beta of the Shadowmist Pack after she is betrayed and imprisoned in a silver-lined torture facility. Her only lifeline is the voice from the next cell: Kier, a nomad who has been held in isolation for three years. His sanity has been eroded after years of psychic assault, but when he connects with Lithia through a small hole in their shared prison wall, he finds an ally and a reason to endure. Together they must navigate a brutal escape through a burning wilderness to the safety of her pack, and as the pack prepares to dismantle the organization that imprisoned them, Lithia and Kier must decide if they are brave enough to claim a future built on more than just shared trauma.

While Savage Bonds is the second in the Shadowmist Pack series, it can be read as a near standalone. One reviewer on Goodreads says:

>> I enjoyed this book even more than the first in the series. Lithia is my favorite. She is such a baddie, and I love her for it. The worldbuilding in this one is awesome too. If you like werewolf romance, this series is for you.

And I, I think you need to know, I, I think you need to know about the dedication from author E. V. Mitchell, which made me laugh:

>> To the readers who saw a hole in a prison wall and immediately thought, Yeah, I’d fist that. You brave, horny disasters, you trauma-bonded, violence-inclined little gremlins: this book is for you.

[Laughs] Savage Bonds and the Shadowmist Pack series by E. V. Mitchell are available now in Kindle Unlimited and in print on the author’s website or in your local library! Woohoo! Audiobooks are coming soon. You can find more information in the show notes. Thank you very much to E. V. Mitchell for supporting this episode, and congratulations on your new book.

Are you ready to talk about all of the things and then be really hungry? Don’t be hungry while you listen to this; we’re going to talk so much about food! On with the podcast.

[music]

Riss M. Neilson: Hi! I’m Riss M. Neilson, and I write books! I have two Young Adult books out right now, I’m Not Supposed to Be in the Dark and Deep in Providence. And my adult debut is called A Love Like the Sun; it came out in 2024. And we’re here to talk about my newest book, which comes out March 31st; it’s called The Bridge Back to You.

Sarah: I have to pay you a compliment. I am not super-great at first-person present? Like, when I’m reading it I’m like, Who are you to tell me what to do? Like, I take it with, like, some –

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: – there are some writers where I’m like, Oh, do I now? And I, and I feel very confront- – your writing style, it is first-person present, but it is so welcoming right from the get-go?

Riss: Uh-huh, I love that.

Sarah: – and it, what, your, your writing is wonderful. And I, I have so many questions.

Now, my rule is if the book isn’t out yet and I’m timing the release of the episode around the release of the book, I try very, very hard not to spoil things.

Riss: Okay, okay.

Sarah: So I won’t ask any spoiler-y questions, but I do have questions about the characters and some of the stuff that’s going on. But let’s start with the, the very basics. What is your elevator pitch for this book? How did you describe it?

Riss: Okay, so The Bridge Back to You is about two exes, they’re both chefs, and they are thrown back into each other’s orbit after a decade apart because they inherit the same restaurant. So.

Sarah: So they’ve been broken up for ten years.

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: Rather, rather emotional breakup. Like, I got the sense like sometimes you break up with somebody and it’s like, Okay, done. Done, done, done, done. So – these two are not done.

Riss: No. They are –

Sarah: They’re –

Riss: No.

Sarah: They’re stuck on each other.

Riss: Yeah, they’re so stuck on each other. I mean, Olivia was traveling, traveling – I’m not going to spoil too much, but she was traveling the world and working traveling the world, and Carmello was back home. And a little spoiler, but she left him. So he, you know, he was, like, worked up about her in a different way, I think?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: ‘Cause she broke his heart and – yeah, and she was stuck on him, thinking about him all the time with each state she jumped to. So they are a decade apart, and they are still thinking about each other constantly.

Sarah: Yeah, they, their, their relationship paused on a bad note, and they have not been able to let go. And it’s, I think it’s especially hard for Carmello because he is stuck in all the places that remind him of her.

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: Like, he is in all the places that she was in, whereas she is, like, totally new places where he’s never been.

Riss: Yes. She, she’s meeting new people; she is doing new work. They’re both chefs, and she’s a personal chef or a private chef? And she’s done her share of, like, working in Michelin restaurants and all that, but right now she just doesn’t want to be tied down anywhere, so she’s a private chef just bouncing around. So she gets to meet these families and, you know, new people and friends, and Carmello is still working at the restaurant that they fell in love in. You know, they met each other when they were only like fourteen and fifteen, and yeah, so. And she worked at his mom’s restaurant, and he still, he owns that restaurant now. So.

Sarah: Right.

Riss: And now she also owns a part of the restaurant that he, that’s his.

Sarah: I used to joke all the time that I wanted to go to Romance Novel Law School so I could write these wills that are like, You must both live on the ranch and get married in order to inherit.

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: I love just a No, I’m leaving you shares, and y’all got to deal. It’s very, it’s, it’s very straightforward. I also love that the book starts right as Olivia is going out with friends to celebrate her divorce from another person.

Riss: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: And it’s so interesting to me because there’s almost this sort of dichotomy with Olivia. On one hand, she’s like, I don’t want to be here. I want to be free; I want to explore; I want to go to places; I want to see new things; I want to go out and, like, you know, eat the world and work as a chef. But she also still feels pressure to do what is expected of her. Like –

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: – Oh, I, I, you know, I guess I should get married ‘cause everyone else is getting married, and Oh, I guess I – and even in the first scene, I guess I should, you know, my friend wants to throw me this party, so I guess I should do it, even though I don’t really want to. She really is starting just on the cusp of you know, I’m only going to do what I want now.

Riss: Yeah, exactly. I think, I think she went through a phase where she, you know, when she was younger, she had to do everything that her parents wanted to do? And that’s why she’s kind of like, they were like nomads, they were bouncing around. And then I think she made the decision to do what she wanted to do at nineteen, and that’s when –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – she left Carmello.

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: And, and then she did that for a while, but then she started, like, realizing everyone around her was “growing up” and, like, you know, having babies and, you know, starting families and getting married. And she was just like, Do I have any of that? Like, am I supposed to do that?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: So she tried this, she tried this thing, and it’s not a big spoiler because it’s in the first chapter, but she tried this thing with a man, and it just, she just didn’t even want to come home to him. Like, she was just like –

Sarah: Nope.

Riss: – No. She was like, you know, it, it was just wrong. And, and they got a divorce, so that’s the beginning. But I will say she’s starting, she’s definitely wants to do what she wants to do, but she’s starting to, like, feel those feelings of like, I do want somewhere to settle down?

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: And I do want something to settle down, someone to settle down with, but, like, I just want to do it on my terms. And I want it to be –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – who I want it to be, you know? So yeah.

Sarah: Yes, and for her, I, I – not a spoiler, again – for Olivia, it is a big deal for her, for her next step to be to go back –

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: – to something, because she doesn’t really return to things all that often. She goes forward, forward, forward. She doesn’t go back, and now she’s choosing to go back, which means, sorry girl, you’ve got to deal with all those feelings you were trying not to feel. Uh-oh!

Riss: Ex-, exactly! Oh my god, I love that, because – I love that you said it like that? I’m –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: I’m stealing that, by the way, when I talk about it.

Sarah: Please do! Take everything you want.

Riss: [Laughs] But she definitely doesn’t ever go back to anywhere, right? It’s like once she’s done with a place, she’s done, right? Like, she’ll have –

Sarah: Done-done.

Riss: Yeah, she – and, and this is also not a spoiler: one of the big things is that she was considering a job opportunity? And I’m not going to say where or what, but it’s something that would ded-, make her dedicate a whole year to a client?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: And that is big for her, because she also hasn’t just did that, right? It’s a year; for everyone else it’s like, Ah! But for her it’s like, Yeah, I have many clients. I can go to many places.

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: So even if I have clients over the years that last for a long time, I’m still doing what I want to do because I am bouncing around between these clients and these states and these countries, even. So, yeah, so she’s, she, she had to make a decision. She’s about to be locked in –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – regardless. And then she inherits part of the restaurant, so.

Sarah: Yep. And she gets to make different choices that are longer term, which is something –

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: – she really hasn’t had to grapple with.

Now, I want to ask you, as, as Olivia is a private chef, I imagine you did a lot of research about what that is like.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: What did you learn? What is it like?

Riss: Okay, so a lot of the times, honestly – what, what I’ve learned, and there’s all different methods, but what I’ve learned is a lot of private chefs travel with – and this is, in Olivia’s case, she doesn’t really, like, work with families? She travels with business-minded people, right? Like, so, like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – people in finance that have to travel a lot, and she travels with them, and she basically gets – and this is usually what it is, right? Like, they get their flights paid for –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – they get everything paid for. Usually they get to stay in the home or in a home that is provided by that, for them? And they don’t have to come out of their pockets for any of those expenses, and that’s usually how it works. I think it, it works different for everywhere, everyone else, but that’s how it is for Olivia, right? She’s, like, flown places; she gets to –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – she gets to have, like, be on a beach house at one point and, you know, and do whatever she wants, basically, and she gets those expenses paid for, paid for, and then she, she just cooks, she just cooks every meal, you know, or anything they want. Like, a lot of the times private chefs do meal prepping? Like –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – I’ve definitely learned that? Heavy meal prepping, right, because these people that can hire private chefs are really busy?

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: So –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – staying home and, like, just eating every single meal is not really, you know –

Sarah: Nope.

Riss: – probably not really an option for them. So I definitely learned that. And then it’s very interesting, the private chefs that work with families? I think, I think those are the most interesting because you really have to consider the whole family, right? Like, they’re –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – thinking of presentation, they’re thinking of everything, but, like, some people have kids, right? And –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – your kids don’t want certain things.

Sarah: Your kids are not interested in, like, rare braised fish and, you know, your kids are like, Can you just artfully plate my chicken nuggets, please?

Riss: Exactly! Exactly.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Riss: So I think that, like, that part of it was really interesting. I, I also found one other thing interesting: the fact that – and I guess this should be just common knowledge, but I just wasn’t thinking of like, they do so many grocery runs, right? Like –

Sarah: Oh my gosh.

Riss: – they do it themselves. They’re just, like, constantly, like every single day picking fresh fruit and vegetables and just, like, in the grocery store every day, because that is not a job that people are going to do when they’re hiring private chefs, so –

Sarah: No!

Riss: – yeah.

Sarah: No, and the private chef is going to want to make sure that everything is the freshest, everything is the highest quality, so they’re probably, you know, sourcing things. I remember reading ages and ages and ages ago, there’s a, there was a blog that was all about Prince. And there was an interview with one of Prince’s former private chefs, and they were terrified. Like just, like, holy cow, I work for Prince. What do I do? And they’re like, In the kitchen, I was fine. But if I had to interact with Prince, I did not know really what to do with myself. And I can imagine for Olivia, having clients that are, you know, just rando finance guys is fine, but being the chef for a famous person? That’s, that must be so hard!

Riss: Yes! That must be difficult. Like, I, I’m, I’m very interested in the private chef thing. I feel like one day I’m going to write a – because this one’s more centered on them being chefs in a restaurant?

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: But, like, one day I would love to write a book focused on that, because I actually – not to, not to digress real quick, but in A Love Like the Sun, in my first adult romance, Issac is famous, and he has a private chef.

Sarah: Yeah!

Riss: But, but, like, he is, like, the sweetest, like, most humble man ever, so I could imagine, like, his chef is not, you know, overworked or anything, but I could, I can’t imagine, right? Like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – cooking for celebrities? It –

Sarah: Oh my gosh.

Riss: – just blows my mind.

Sarah: Oh, it, it would be – I mean, and Prince. Oh my gosh. I would be –

Riss: Prince! I know! [Laughs]

Sarah: I would not be chill at any time, unless I knew he was out of the house! [Laughs]

Riss: Yes! I would be sh-, I would be shaking, like…

Sarah: Yes! Oh my God, all the time!

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: So we’ve talked a little bit about Olivia and Carmello. What can you tell me about the two of them? Because there’s such an incredible mix of internal and external conflicts for them both. They have their feelings, which, you know, Olivia doesn’t really want to feel right now, but oh, well. They have the restaurant; they have this external internal conflict, which is my favorite combo. They have restaurant shares, and they have resentment.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Please tell me about –

Riss: They do have a lot of them.

Sarah: – tell me a little bit about Olivia and Carmello and how they interact with each other.

Riss: Okay, so just off the bat, Olivia is a very, she was probably one of my favorite main characters to write. She’s very feisty, and –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: – she just, sometimes she does whatever she wants. She also, like, says whatever she wants, and she’s just, she’s, she’ll, she’ll, she’ll get in your face if she has to, right? Which is what she does with Carmello. And another thing, for the astrology readers, she is a, a Sagittarius, so she’s kind of just like free-spirited; she has, like, big energy. And Carmello is a Taurus, and he’s just like, wants that comfort.

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: He just wants stability. He likes routine. He, he thrives on routine, and I think that what happens between them just naturally is that it’s, it’s really like that opposites attract thing, but, like –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – she throws him way off, right? Because she is so, she just does whatever she wants, and she’s just so free-spirited, and he’s like, I, I need things in my life to be okay. So I think one of the biggest things when she comes back is that she starts doing things in the restaurant that makes him feel like, Oh! What is going on? You know, and he, and he just doesn’t want her there at all, but he can’t tell her to leave.

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: So, so he’s trying to, like – I’m not going to spoil it too much, but he’s, he’s trying to do his own thing, right? To, like sabotage the situation, and he’s just, it’s not, it’s not in him, right? Like, it’s not –

Sarah: No.

Riss: – his personality type, and he’s just very, like, he’s very steely. He’s sometimes funny, but he’s very, like, just straight cut, and she’s like, she’s not. So I think that just naturally, just their personalities alone, like, bump up against each other? And then the way they grew up, right? So, like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – I think that’s a big thing. Olivia grew up with parents that, they handled natural disasters around the country, and they did work for, like, FEMA, like different things like that. So because of that, they were always bouncing around. Like, they, she, she was in so many middle schools, and Carmello, his parents were immigrants, and, like, they just came to this country, like, wanted to get a home base, work really hard. And that’s what Carmello has been doing all along, right? His mom opened the restaurant when he was three, and he’s been there ever since. He cooks –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – he does every-, you know, so that stability that he grew up with is not something she grew up with, and I think that that is huge, right? Like –

Sarah: Oh –

Riss: – how we grow up is –

Sarah: Massive.

Riss: – massive in how we relate to other people. So.

Sarah: Especially because Olivia doesn’t really have a place where she has put down deep roots? Especially because if, if she was a child traveling with her parents and they’re doing disaster work, you know, it occurred to me, she’s in places where everyone has lost everything, so there’s nothing to have.

Riss: Yes, yes.

Sarah: And they know they’re only there temporarily.

Riss: Yes. Yeah.

Sarah: Whereas for Carmello, his roots where he is are so deep that the idea of leaving them is just, like, impossible. Like, they’re opposites, and in, and in the beginning they’re in a place where they kind of understand each other, but they don’t. Like, I don’t understand how you could go off and just do things. And she’s probably like, Well, I don’t know how you can just stay here and do the same thing every day, ‘cause I can’t do that either.

Riss: Yeah. [Laughs] Exactly! I think it’s, it’s definitely one of those things, I think. One of the things about Olivia, too, is the reason why she was able to connect with Providence and connect with Carmello so much, and the only reason why it’s the closest place that has ever felt like a home base, is because her parents ended up getting stuck for a couple years doing this work that they weren’t expecting? So, and it was in, like, pivotal years. I feel like our teenage years are so pivotal?

Sarah: So pivotal, yes.

Riss: And, and it’s like, in that, it’s like, it’s just fate right? In that smack, right there, when she was just growing up and she was a teenager, and she was, like, starting to form her own opinions about the world, she met Celia Rodrig-, Rodriguez, who is the owner –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – of Celia’s Place, the restaurant, and she met Carmello, and she started working at this restaurant. She’s very brave. I’m not going to spoil it, but she, she forced her way in. She just started falling in love with, like, the restaurant and working and being a chef and also, like, seeing, seeing people that have lives that are more solid. But because she’s always had that wanderlust like her, her parents, like, she gets to a point after she’s there for a while where she’s like, you know, like, I don’t know if this is me that can just –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – stay here in this place. And Carmello is so different. He would stay there forever. He, this is, that was the plan. But because he falls in love with Olivia, he is willing to change?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: And it just doesn’t work out. I’m not going to spoil the rest, but –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – it doesn’t work out for them.

Sarah: Not the first time, no.

Riss: Not the first time, no. But there is –

Sarah: But it is a romance.

Riss: – a Happily Ever After.

Sarah: There’s a romance.

Riss: Exactly.

Sarah: Got an HEA in it.

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: Don’t worry, folks.

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: Now, you mentioned the astrology of your characters, which I totally love. Is that something you do for all your books? You sort of, like, look at their astrological chart and, and see, you know, how their signs are going to influence their behavior?

Riss: Oh, definitely. Yeah, I –

Sarah: Oh, that’s so cool!

Riss: [Laughs] I’m, like, pretty big on astrology, so, and there are, there are some main characters that I haven’t, I haven’t written the signs yet, but I feel like I’m trying to go across the board –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Riss: – kind of, and they just naturally, like, right away I was like, They’re a Taurus. It’s like –

Sarah: Yep!

Riss: – just everything about their background feels like a Taurus and a Sagittarius, which the funny thing about me doing all of that work is that a lot of times you hear, and I don’t, I don’t completely believe in this? I do believe, like, any signs can end up together and be in love and all. It’s just, like, relationships require work?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: But whenever you hear about Sagittariuses and Tauruses it’s like, No. Like, absolutely not. So that was fun for them. And yes, to answer your question, I do do that for every one of my characters. Sometimes, though, like, the character will tell me what they are.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: That’s, that’s usually what it is. Usually it’s not me. The character will tell me right when I start writing. It’s one of those things I, I feel like probably authors say this often, but especially because I’m a pantser or like a pantser, so I, like, don’t completely know what I’m doing when I go into a book?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: Because of that, the character kind of, like, tells me. Like, I think of a scene, mostly, and then the character tells me who they are, and then I’m like –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – Oh, yeah, they’re a Pisces, you know? Like, definitely.

Sarah: I love talking to authors, and I, and I’ve written, so I understand how this works, because it’s the only really, only the people that will really understand the idea that, well, you know my characters just start talking to me in my head, and I just write down what they say. Like, if you say that to anyone who’s not an author, they’re just going to be a little concerned, but this is like, yeah, absolutely! The character will tell you who they are, and – I mean, astrology is a lens through which to understand yourself and other people in the world, and it’s a way of marking time as well. It’s like, it is, it is a calendar. So the idea that your characters are rooted in a time and in a moment from when they were born that gives you a lens with which to understand them means that you have, you know, well-developed characters!

Riss: Exactly. I, I love that part about it, and I’m glad that you said that about their birth and the lens of it, ‘cause I also think, right, just like you’re saying, it’s summer, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: People that are, you know, they say, I mean, this is not true all the time, right? I know different Pisces, but I’m writing a Pisces now right, and, like, she’s born smack in the middle – like, right now, like, this is like snowstorm season. It’s, you know, so, like, some of, sometimes they’re going to be extra introverted. Even, even depending on where you live in the world, obviously, like, we, we’re in Rhode Island, I’m in Rhode Island, so I have all four seasons? But just when you’re born, that could affect you too, right? Like, if you get to –

Sarah: Oh, for sure!

Riss: – if you get to experience, like, summer on your birthday, right? Where you’re just like, Oh, live-. So I think astrology is, it’s just so important. I love, I love astrology. And I know a lot of people don’t, you know, believe in it, but I do think it’s, it’s great to have, like, a little basis there. And some people don’t, don’t care about it, but a lot of people are like, What are their signs? And I love –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – when readers get into it, you know?

Sarah: Oh yeah. And also astrology has been around for so long.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, humans have been looking at this for a long-ass time.

Riss: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: You don’t have to, like, you don’t have to, like, plot your whole life by it, but it’s still a real thing for many people.

Riss: It is a real – yeah! I, I believe it. I’m like, you know, I’m in my house, I have two teenagers, right? Like, we’re all like, now that they’re growing up, I can see the differences in our signs and how we –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: – relate to each other, how we speak to each other. Like, it’s different –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – for each of us and how – yeah!

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: And it’s, I don’t know, you can kind of see. And I think some things are more accurate than others, and I also think that with astrology you just can’t, it’s like, it’s like a base, but you can’t just – I think that’s what throws people off is that people are like, Well, this is not me, and it’s just like, well, it’s just giving you a base.

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: You, you, you live, you have your lived experiences –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – and those lived experiences can change you –

Sarah: Oh yes!

Riss: – but it’s just giving you, like, that base, you know?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: So yeah. I love it.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Now, speaking of, of starting with a base and then your lived experiences, Olivia struggles with endometriosis, which, Girl, same. Zero stars; do not like. I want to speak to the manager. It sucks!

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: And I know it was really important for you to include that representation of, of a chronic illness, which is a topic I’ve discussed with many guests on the show about how romance does and does not portray chronic illnesses in beneficial ways for people to understand them. Why was it important for you to include chronic illness and endometriosis with Olivia?

Riss: Well, first of all, I have a chronic illness; I have chronic kidney disease. So it is, it’s just something that, as soon as I found out I, I feel, I felt, I felt like, Oh, wow, you know, and I kind of wanted to explore through my own fiction? But then –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – one of the things that happened to me as I went is every book that had some type of chronic illness in it made me feel just more seen –

Sarah: Yes!

Riss: – and I just love that, right? Like, it just made me, as a reader, because I’m not just – like, I read a ton. And I know, I know some authors don’t read and I get it: like, we’re busy. But I read a ton, and if I come across a book that has any kind of chronic illness rep, it just makes me feel like, Oh! You understand, right? And I think one of the big things to me too is just that I know this is fiction. So some people like escapism completely in their fiction? But I think sometimes I like to base mine on the real world, and seventy-five percent of US citizens, like, live with some type of chronic condition.

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: So that is a heavy number of people. It just, to me it feels realistic to include it in my fiction, you know, and I just think that we need more – so I, for, for my books, what I plan to do is, you know, try to include it in each of my, each of my books, even if it doesn’t affect the main character. So, like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – a side character or, or something, just ‘cause I, I just, I think it’s realistic? And as far as romance goes, if you want me to touch on that part of it –

Sarah: Please do! I would love to hear your thoughts.

Riss: So I just, there’s something about seeing ourselves, right, like, as chronically ill main characters in our own life, be loved –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – by, be loved and, like, cherished and supported and understood by a love interest, right? And I, there’s just something about that that just does me in. Like, it just makes me feel, like, so good, and I love writing it. I think another thing that I love to explore is because it’s not, because I don’t write from a place that’s, like, strictly escapism –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – I do like to explore how the, how our chronic illness can affect our partners –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – and what that means, right? Like, some, some, some of my main characters are fully, like, fully convinced that it doesn’t matter if I have a chronic illness; like, I’m deserving of all the things that everyone else is. And that’s what I want them to feel at the end of the book? But some of them don’t start like that, right? Some of them start like, I might be a burden to, you know, to, to somebody that I love. Like, what happens to me in ten years? Is it going to be something that, you know, my love interest or, like, this person that really loves me is going to have to deal with or handle or, you know –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: Yeah, just basically trying to, to pick apart the way that sometimes we, we can feel like burdens. And I think for Olivia, one of the big things and, you know, is that sometimes endo can affect things like, you know, sexuality, right? So I think, and intimacy and, and I think that that’s so important, right? Because you want a, a love interest who is going to love you no matter, no matter what, no matter if that does affect that part of your relationship, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – like, the physical, the physical part of your relationship. So –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: So yeah. I don’t know. I, I love it, and I will continue to always do it. Like I said, it might, it might be in different ways because there’s only so many times I can write the main character like, the main character with a chronic illness, but, like, Olivia and both Laniah from A Love Like the Sun, both are the main, the female main characters with a chronic illness.

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: So, yeah.

Sarah: And the, and the thing with a chronic illness is that it is hard for a lot of people who don’t have a chronic illness to understand is that your body is drastically different day to day?

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: Like –

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: – different in major ways. And every day is a different set of things. Like sometimes this symptom or sometimes that, depending on where you are in your cycle. You could be feeling great; you could, you know, want to straight up kill people. Your body is not in your control, which for a lot of people freaks them the hell out.

Riss: Yes, yes. One hundred percent. And I think that, I think that is, that is important for people to know, right, is that –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – like, it’s not like a constant, just like you said, it’s not a constant thing we’re living with where every single day is the same? So we can just –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – we just have to get over and get used to it. You know, it’s, it’s not like that. Some days you are so fatigued, right?

Sarah: Oh my God.

Riss: You know, I think it’s probably – yeah – I think it’s probably, like across the board, I think it’s considered, like, one of the, like, across the board, like, most chronic illnesses deal with fatigue, so it’s like sometimes you have energy, and then there are days that you just have to, like, drag yourself through the day, and I think –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: – and I think, like, maybe to some people it might be like, Well, I have to drag myself through the day, and it’s like, well, I, like, I live with this thing, like, right, where I have to drag myself through the day a lot of the days. It’s a real symptom, and I think then speaking on Olivia and endo specifically is that –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – the cycle thing is very important for her, right? Like, if she’s closer to her, her cycle, her menstrual cycle, it’s worse, right? Like, it’s –

Sarah: Oh yeah. Real bad.

Riss: – it’s so much worse, and she is dealing with, you know, all kinds of, like, just, you know, having to take meds that maybe she doesn’t want to take day in and day out, but, but it’s the only way that she can function! And she has to watch what she’s eating a lot. Like, and that’s another, another very common thing about a chronic illness is that, like, it’s, it’s different from, like, just wanting to be healthy, for instance, and wanting to, like, watch what you eat. It’s literally like, if you have grease this day –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – the next day you might be in bed all day. Like, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – it’s, it’s, it’s one of those things. Or you have to watch how much sodium you eat. So it’s not just you have to be healthy, but it’s also like, you know, you’re, you’re watching recipes and –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – you can’t follow –

Sarah: Monitoring your inflammation, yeah.

Riss: Yeah! You cannot follow that recipe, right, because they’re putting –

Sarah: Nope.

Riss: – you know, they’re putting all these amazing seasonings on their food, and you’re just like, Well, if I have all that soy sauce – for me, I grew up in a Filipino household, so it’s like a ton of sodium, right, and it’s –

Sarah: Oh, just a, just a few milligrams, yeah.

Riss: [Laughs] Yeah! It’s, it’s, it’s wild. And it’s like, you know, we have to, we have to watch those kind of things. So I think it’s really important to be able to, like, showcase how day in and day out –

Sarah: Yeah!

Riss: – it could look different, right? Sometimes –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: Like, sometimes we feel great, right?

Sarah: Oh, it’s –

Riss: Sometimes we feel great.

Sarah: It’s so great when you have a good day and you’re like, All right, I’m going to pay for this at some point, but I feel awesome!

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: Whoo!

Riss: Exactly, exactly. It’s so, it’s so amazing to feel that. And I think it was important for me to do this for Olivia? Like, for the endo for Olivia, just because, can you imagine being a private chef or a chef in general and, like, cooking all the time, and yes, you probably get sick of your food anyway, but just being around food 24/7 and then just not being able to eat it. Like, sometimes she can’t taste test her own food –

Sarah: Mm-mm.

Riss: – because she feels so bad.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: I think that was important for me to include, and just Carmello being, like, completely understanding of that?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: And not making her feel like something is wrong with her or she’s a burden or –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: Yeah. So.

Sarah: So it’s funny that you’re discussing this, ‘cause I was reading this morning – did you happen to see online the stills of, I think it’s a video podcast with Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco, and he’s sitting on the couch, and the bottoms of his feet are, like, super dirty, and at one point he, like, farts audibly and everyone’s like, Oh my God –

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: – he’s so gross! Girl, please divorce this man; he is disgusting. And I saw this morning that an actress named Ivy Wolk, like, reposted this, Oh God, he has, she, she should divorce him. He’s got dirty feet on the couch and, you know, he farts in the podcast video, and she captioned it, Y’all don’t understand the charm of dating a guy who is a little gross when you are a chronically ill girl, because when you are having diarrhea and throwing up and getting surgery, he will not be shaken by this at all.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: You just don’t get it. And I, when you were talking about how Carmello is just acceptance, and I understand, and these are your limitations, and that’s okay; I can help you in this way. It, first of all, it never occurred to me to think of Benny Blanco’s dirty feet as a –

Riss: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: – way of understanding a chronic illness partnership, but also, you know what, that’s true: you do need someone who’s going to be with you when your body is doing great and when your body is at its absolute worst.

Riss: Yes, exactly. I think that that’s important. I also think that when you think of it in terms of, like, sometimes defer-, depression can really affect us? So it’s like not just, not just your body, but also there are times when, you know, people with chronic illnesses cannot get out of bed –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – to shower and stuff, right, because they feel so bad. And I think having a partner that can understand some-, sometimes, like, you know, like, just like Benny, you’re going to have dirty feet, right?

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: Like, it’s just like, it’s just one of those things. So I think, yeah, I, I haven’t seen that yet, and now I’m like, after this, I’m going to go run to those.

Sarah: I’ll send you the, the post with the screen cap of hers, ‘cause I just – of Ivy Wolk’s – ‘cause I just, I really appreciate that perspective. Yeah, you know what? You’re right.

Riss: Yeah. I think that it’s, it’s important for, to be with a partner that considers humanity, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: Like, that’s just like, it’s just humanity, like, just like we would consider Benny’s dirty feet or, or, like somebody that’s burping or, you know, like sometimes people don’t smell great all the time, but then, you know, like, there are most times that they do smell great, but sometimes there are days, right? Like, and I think –

Sarah: I too have had teenagers, yes. [Laughs]

Riss: Yeah! You, you know…

Sarah: I do know.

Riss: You know! [Laughs] I’m like –

Sarah: I don’t understand it, but I do know.

Riss: Yeah! I’m like – so, exactly. And, and I think, you know, I think we just have to give ourselves grace and –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – be with somebody that can give us grace?

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: And I think, I think Carmello, right, like, he’s over, he’s over here, like, looking at Olivia in part of the book, and he’s just like, I work in a kitchen, right? So I’m like, like, even though he, he’s, he’s usually a well-kept man and all that, like, aside from that, he’s, he’s living – like, she’s coming back and he’s, like, working and, like, sweating in the kitchen and, like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – stinky sometimes and, like, worrying about that. And she, she looks, she looks all, like, dolled up ‘cause she likes to get dressed up and she likes to, to, to smell good and all that. But sometimes he’s going to catch her in the back room –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: – like, taking, like, pain meds and cramping and not feeling well at all, and it’s just, and, and also, like, maybe not carrying her weight around the restaurant because she physically can’t that day, so –

Sarah: Can’t do it, Yeah.

Riss: So those things just, yeah. I really love that from the, the, the Selena Gomez perspective of that ‘cause it does feel, it feels so real; like we need to be with somebody that’s going to understand, like, not every day –

Sarah: Sometimes –

Riss: – is going to look –

Sarah: No, some things –

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: – things are very, very messy.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, you also have OCD rep in this book, which I was fascinated by. Can you tell me more about that?

Riss: So this is my – so first I want to say, since I am a reader, I want to shout out Phantasma, which is not a, a rom-, adult romance. But it is a param-, paranormal romance and genre, genres, I feel like it’s a little bendy, so excuse me if it’s not exactly a paranormal romance. But it was the first time that I read, and I’ve been wanting to read OCD rep because I have OCD, and I struggle with intrusive thoughts and, you know, germophobia and some things that are not, like, some, some things that are not fun on a daily basis?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Riss: And when I read Phantasma, and the main character had OCD before I was writing this book, it just made, like, like I say about the chronic illness, it just made me feel so understood, so seen –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – so, like, Wow. This is, I’ve never seen this.

Sarah: And I’m the hero.

Riss: Yeah! And I’m the hero.

Sarah: Someone like me is the hero.

Riss: Exactly! Same thing for, you know, a chronically ill main character. I am the love interest; I am the – you know what I’m saying? I am the star of this book. Like, this is –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – my book; I am the main character. It’s the same thing? And, you know, in Phantasma, the main character was able to be the hero, and it, it’s just, it was so amazing to see. So I think this is, I don’t want to spoil it, but one of them has OCD in, one of the main characters, and I think, like, it just was really important for me to explore that –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – in a book and still like – actually, I’ll just say, ‘cause I feel like it’s not much of a spoiler; you probably know. But, like, Carmello is the one that has OCD. And I think, like Olivia has to be understood for her endo, Carmello having OCD affects his life on a daily basis –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – and it can also affect the people around him, right? And –

Sarah: Yes. Oh yes.

Riss: – I think that part is the most important, that it, in fact, it probably affects the people around him more than it affects him, because he’s learned to live with it? That is very important, and it was very important to me to have these two main characters who have something that maybe another love interest would not be able to deal with or would not find, would not find the humanity in or couldn’t see past that. But I think Olivia and Carmello just love each other no matter what.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: So they’re able to, to understand each other like that. And, yeah, I think, I don’t know, the OCD rep is, it’s like, it’s an important theme of this book?

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: And I, and I just, I just hope if any readers that have OCD come across it, they just feel, they feel seen. I’ve, I’ve already, I’ve already heard from a couple of ARC readers. I’m sorry, my eyes just water if you – I’m not crying! [Laughs] I’m not crying. But I’ve already, some ARC readers for The Bridge Back To You have messaged me, and they’re like, Oh my God, I’ve never read OCD rep in a book, and, like, I just feel so, like, seen. I feel, like, so normal and touched and it’s so, something that I haven’t even wanted to talk about, not even with my therapist, and it just made me feel, it made me feel good to include that, and I, I love Carmello. [Laughs]

Sarah: And with my own experience with people who have OCD or, or obsessive-compulsive tendencies, you have symptoms that may show up that they are coping mechanisms? That they are –

Riss: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – designed to help decrease the anxiety of whatever disorder is going to push on your OCD, or it’s, it could be interference with your happiness. And it’s sometimes really hard to tell the difference between what habits are enabling your wellbeing or compromising your wellbeing, because you don’t actually know, because it’s all coming from inside your head!

Riss: Exactly, exactly. You have to, I think one of the things that is funny that I have learned in therapy myself for my OCD is that basically visualization – at least that works for me, right? Like, I’m a visual learner – so to visualize the thoughts like separate from you? And as one of my therapists calls them leaves falling, and, like, to see which one, like, affects you in like a way that feels, like, gives you anxiety and explore it in that way? So I think, yeah, there are really, there are a lot of tools to, to – if anyone, if anyone ever is interested in, like, visual learning things – there are a lot of tools that can help with the OCD, but it’s definitely something that you kind of have to discern, is this, is this helping or hurting me, right?

Sarah: Yeah!

Riss: Because for some for some, for some things with OCD, like, there’s, there’s, there are things where I’m like, Well, my OCD gives me these hyperfixations, and sometimes we can romanticize it, right –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – because it’s like, because I have OCD, if I say I am going to write this many words today, I’m going to do it because I’m fixated on it –

Sarah: You’re going to get it done. Yep.

Riss: – right? If I say I’m going to look for these, this, this certain, like, word in my book and try to, try to replace it with a different word, I am going to look through that book until I can’t anymore and do it, right? And, and sometimes feel good about that. But we have to consider that some of those compulsions and some of those actually, like, are not something that should be romanticized, because they can affect us, right? Then you’re doing it –

Sarah: Oh yes.

Riss: – you’re doing a compulsion and you are like, I can hyperfixate on this, and this is great. But then you don’t realize, like, how much time you’ve lost of the day, how many things you’ve abandoned to do that.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: If you’re abandoning yourself and your body to, to do that. So I think, yeah, I think it’s very, I just really, I like exploring that because obviously it’s something I, I live with, and I am trying to learn healthy habits. Right, I don’t think, I don’t think it’s something that’s just going to go away. But I think it’s important to learn the difference, like you’re saying, of, like, is this, is this going to be something that hurts me or, or helps me?

Sarah: And with, with OCD also, it, it’s a function of motivation, right?

Riss: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Like, OCD and obsessive-compulsive tendencies can really give you, like you said, I’m going to write two thousand words today; I’m going to write two thousand words today. It’s very, it, it can be a, a generation of motivation, which is also something you have to think about with characters. Characters need a motivation to move through the story.

Riss: Yes, yes.

Sarah: And so this is, for you and for Carmello, it is a way for him to sort of contextualize something that is mostly inside his head and see how it is going to affect the people around him outside of his head.

Riss: Yes, yes. And especially, like – and this is a, this is a tiny bit of a spoiler, but especially his son. ‘Cause –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – Carmello has a five-year-old son. So how does this –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – you know, how do, how do the things and the ways that I live and the ways, the ways that I show up in other people’s lives affect them, you know? And also I think sometimes – and, and this is like a bit of a spoiler too, almost – but, like, OCD is something that is known to be passed on through the generations?

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: And that is also something that we should, you know, consider and be aware of –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – when we are – [laughs] – we are, we have our habits or –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – our tendencies and our fears. ‘Cause that is –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – that is the big thing about OCD is that it’s just, it’s mostly, it mostly, it mostly makes you just afraid of a lot of things, right? And it’s like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – I need to get this book done. Right, so even the compulsions are like, if I don’t do this in time, something, X, X will happen, you know, so –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Something bad will happen. It’s never anything good that’s going to happen; it’s always something bad that’s going to happen, which –

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: – like, I want the, I would like a, I would like a, a mental illness that includes optimism? Like, I’m –

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: – so ready for everything to be great! I don’t know what it’s like to have that –

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: – personality; that is not my personality. [Laughs]

Riss: Yes, yes, I don’t know! I mean, I mean, and, and here’s the thing: a little bit of what I was saying about OCD is that, right? It’s like, we think of it as a positive thing because we’re like, I’ll get a book done. Like, I got another book done.

Sarah: Look what I got done!

Riss: Exactly. It’s like –

Sarah: Look what I accomplished! Yeah!

Riss – it’s like a reward, right?

Sarah: Yup.

Riss: It’s like a reward. So I think that there are, are parts, honestly, OCD, and, and it’s funny, because my therapists over the years have said – like, different therapists – have said OCD is one of the hardest things for them to, to work with, the hardest condition, because it’s so, like, people want to hold on ‘cause there are rewards, right? Like, there’s maybe not positive, too much positive thinking besides like that part of the reward: if I do this –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – I get it done and I’m able to do this, or –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – you know? Like, if I get a book done and I’m able to sell it; like, that kind of thing for me in particular. I’m sure anyone can insert, like, just insert what’s, for you, like a goal –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – for you and what it can, what the positive things it can bring to your life are? But because of that, like, my therapists have said it’s very hard, because a lot of people with OCD do not want to adapt and do not want to learn healthy habits because it does, it does give them –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – positive outcomes sometimes? But I will say, like, it’s still very much a source of anxiety. So –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – so, yeah, it’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – it’s a hard one. It’s a hard one.

Sarah: And, and it’s important, like you were saying, with someone with endometriosis, someone with OCD, seeing themselves as the leading character in a romance is important.

Riss: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I mean, one of the biggest changes that has happened in romance since I started writing and talking about it twenty-odd years ago, back when I started, books were very white? Extremely white. Like, all white. And I used to say, and other did, other people did as well, you know, the people who are reading romance need to be able to see themselves, and it’s not just white people who are reading romance.

Riss: Yeah. 

Sarah: But until people could see, Oh, not everyone is the same; not everyone has the exact same experience, and all of these experiences can be included in romance, the genre has only gotten better.

Riss: Yes. Yes!

Sarah: Which I’m very pleased about.

Riss: Right? I’m so, I’m so pleased with it. I, I’m just like, every time I read something and it has, I don’t know, even, like, you know, autism rep or –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – you know, anything, right? It’s just like –

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: – Ah! It’s just amazing because it just feels more true to the world we live in. So yeah.

Sarah: Yes, yes.

So I understand that I need to go to Providence – not right now; you have a bit of snow – and I need to eat many things. And food is a major component of this book, obviously, with a restaurant –

Riss: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and two chefs. Please tell me what, first, was it difficult to figure out what things to include in the book? Were there things that you included in the book that were absolute favorites? Like, food is such a big theme in this book. How do you, how did you basically – I, I, I imagine you had, I want to include all of this; I’ve got to narrow it down.

Riss: Yes. That is tough. I, I literally –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Riss: That is probably the hardest part for me? I’ve always, each of my books so far, I’ve always based things in Providence, so I’m able to, like, shout out stores I love and, like, indie bookstores and, and different things like that? But this one with food, I am such a foodie. I love food. So it was really, really hard. I actually have a paragraph where Olivia just mentions all the food that she ate from Providence this week, so that, and I did that, honestly, like, partly for me so that I can, like, stick in all this food that I love from places that I love. So, I, I, it was, it was difficult for me to, to figure out which ones to include, ‘cause I think that one of the things that happened, too, was maybe not – and, and I’m not going to say what ‘cause that’s, you know – but, like, some of my least favorite restaurants were important to the book nonetheless, because they were important for themes and, like, different things that people will read. I’m not going to spoil it. But my absolute favorite – and can I give you some Providence recs real quick?

Sarah: My next question was, Please tell me where to eat –

Riss: Oh!

Sarah: – in, in Providence. So I will, I will write down all of your recs, and I will make sure to link to them because everyone’s going to want to go visit Providence and eat.

Riss: Yes. Not to, not to be dramatic, but we are known to have some of the best food in the country? So –

Sarah: Oh yes!

Riss: – and it’s, and it’s, and I’m not being dramatic. I’ve been, I’ve been to a lot of places, and just because we have so much cultural diversity in…

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: Like, it’s like you can, in a square mile, you can hit, like, so many different restaurants. It’s, it’s just –

Sarah: Oh yeah. The same is true for me where I live. I live in Montgomery County, Maryland, which is –

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: – the most diverse county in, in America, I think, right now? And the, the amount of cuisine I can get is only outnumbered by the number of languages the school announcements are available in, because of how many different cultures. We have a massive Ethiopian and Eritrean population; we have Colombia and El Salvador, so much of central and South America. We have all of these different cuisines – South Asian cuisine. Oh, it’s great! I really –

Riss: Ah!

Sarah: – I, please understand, I know, I know all the words to this song? I get it. [Laughs]

Riss: You get it, right? And I –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Riss: – I don’t know if anyone that doesn’t live in, like, a really dense cultural – [laughs] – population with, like, really – I don’t know; I don’t, I don’t know that everyone could get it. Like, people are like, Why would this be – you know, like, this other place has a bunch of Michelin-star restaurants. I’m like, No, but you haven’t had, you know, like, a Dominican breakfast. Like –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Riss: – I don’t know, you know? So I will say, to me –

Sarah: Tell me your places and tell me your food. I’m ready.

Riss: Yeah, I, I think, speaking of Dominican, Carolina’s is probably a good one, right? Carolina’s is on the south side of Providence. I love that.

I love, Cap’t Loui for seafood is my top – I’ve been to so many seafood restaurants in Rhode Island –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Riss: – and Cap’t Loui in Providence is just, if you like boil bags, if you like eating seafood with your hands, if you like all that – Ooh! Perfect. It’s actually in the book, and it’s, it’s just incredible. It’s my favorite place.

So then if you, Ebisu – these are not all gonna be in Providence because Rhode Island is so small. If anyone knows anything about Rhode Island, we are fifteen minutes or less to the next town. So – [laughs]

Sarah: Yes.

Riss: So Ebisu is actually in Cranston, and it’s Japanese, and their ramen is, it’s like, it’s just incredible. So if you like ramen, you like gyoza, like, Ebisu in Cranston. Amazing, and their service is impeccable too. I love them.

For something a little fancier, this is my favorite, I guess you, I guess I can call it, like, high-end restaurant, Ten Prime Steak and Sushi in Providence? Incredible! Like, I, I have never had a, you know – and they also, they do baked stuffed lobster: incredible. Their steaks are just –

Sarah: Oh my God.

Riss: – their steaks just, like, melt in your – like, you know, when people say that steak melts in your mouth; it’s like that. It’s incredible. They have huge portions. And also one of my favorite parts is that – and a lot of places don’t make this, but they make a bread pudding? So, so –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Riss: – yes. It’s like, have pictures of – ah – I, I wish I could link my picture, but they make a bread pudding that has, like, ice cream on top, and it’s just like, it’s perfect. It’s one of their number one, like, bestsellers, and it’s incredible. The chef doesn’t make it every night?

Sarah: Oh, see, that’s not fair.

Riss: It’s not!

Sarah: You’ve got to get lucky to get your bread pudding. [Laughs]

Riss: It’s not – people, they say people, like, ask like, Is the chef making this tonight? ‘Cause I’m not going to come in tonight if – like, I’ll come in another night, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – and that, that’s me. I’m like, Is the bread pudding on the menu tonight? [Laughs]

Sarah: I believe it.

Riss: Yeah. So that’s incredible.

And yeah, I think, I think those are, like, just to get different, different things, I think those are probably right now my top restaurants.

We also just, like, have, like, an amazing, like, chain in, in, in Rhode Island that is, like, I think they have like – I don’t even know if they’re anywhere else, but they have like six restaurants in Rhode Island. It’s called Baja’s, and they are just, it’s like a buffet of Mexican food, and it’s incredible? Just always fresh. They just make it right there in front of you, and it’s amazing. So if you would rather just go somewhere that you can grab something fast, Baja’s is probably, is my, is my rec. So.

Sarah: I think they’re in Connecticut too. I think I’ve been to one –

Riss: Are they?

Sarah: – in Connecticut, and holy –

Riss: Okay!

Sarah: – crap, is it good.

Riss: Hey, isn’t it amazing? Yes.

Sarah: Ohhh.

Riss: I think they’re trying to branch out, right? Like, it’s, it’s like a small, it started as just, like, a one small business, like a family-owned restaurant, and like, they’re just, like, blowing up, and they are, they are just incredible. You know, they’re so good. And they have the best tres leche ever!

Sarah: Mmm.

Riss: So good. Amazing. So I love them.

And then in the book, I think one of the dishes that I love, and this is just, like, a personal fave: this restaurant is Filipino fusion, and so I want to say monggo which is mung beans, and it’s, like, stewed, and then it’s – sometimes, like, my family will put meat in it, like pork or something like that, and you eat it over white rice and it’s just like Oh! It’s my favorite, it’s my favorite Filipino food. I think that we hear a lot about, like, if anyone is familiar with Filipino food, it’s like adobo, pancit, like, you know, the basics, and I love the basics too. Like, I am not a basics hater; I eat all of it; I love it. But that is my favorite. So I had to include that dish in the book.

Sarah: Of course!

Riss: It’s not everyone’s favorite. Like, people are not going to gravitate towards it, but – and then I want to say lumpia –

Sarah: Yup.

Riss: – which is a basic, but you cannot – like, who can, what Filipino can be tired of lumpia? Not me.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Riss: No! Like, I, I know so many people that just make it and stick it in their freezer, and it’s like, when their kids are hungry just, like, warm up lumpia. I need to start doing that, actually, but, um, I don’t meal prep. [Laughs] I don’t have energy to meal prep.

Sarah: I have said so many times on this podcast, people who listen are probably going to be aware of what I’m about to say: I think that the universal expression of human love is to take a food, to wrap it in a dough and cook it. And every culture has one. You have –

Riss: Every culture.

Sarah: – lumpia, bao buns –

Riss: Empanadas!

Sarah: – empanadas, you know –

Riss: Pastelitos. Like –

Sarah: – pastelitos and kreplach and pierogis and all of these different foods that are a food in a dough and cooked, and every culture has one, and it’s almost always –

Riss: Yes.

Sarah: – the most comfort food, the, the most loved, like the most essential piece of your, your cuisine is often –

Riss: Exactly!

Sarah: – a food wrapped in a dough. This is how humans express love.

Riss: It’s, it’s wild. That food is definitely loved, but, like, I also think that there’s something about that food because there’s so much ability to share it, right?

Sarah: Yes!

Riss: So it’s a part-, it’s a party food. It’s like, you know, I will just bring like a bunch of egg rolls or gyoza or whatever to a party, and everyone’s going to eat it, right?

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Riss: …you know, everyone likes it, everyone’s going to eat it, and there’s so much sharing that can go around, because they’re just like these little things of, you know – [laughs] – like egg rolls. Like, who doesn’t want, you know, like, to bring, you know, the spring rolls with you? So I think, yeah, I, I love that part of it. I love that we can share it very easily. There’s no, like, need for, like, huge containers or, you know, to use your favorite Tupperware or whatever. You can literally wrap it in some tin foil and give it to your neighbor. And –

Sarah: Yep!

Riss: – there’s just something about those, those foods that I feel like are, they’re special. Also, I think a lot of them are just, you know, in going across the board, like, pretty cheap to make, right?

Sarah: Yes, very cheap.

Riss: Like, you know, so, so it’s – yeah, it’s definitely a love food, and a lot of, a lot of times they are fried. So…

Sarah: Yep!

Riss: – not saying they’re the best for you –

Sarah: And that’s also fun too!

Riss: – but they’re, but they’re yummy! [Laughs]

Sarah: They’re so yummy. And often these are foods that are made by community?

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, if you’re going to make a big batch of tamales, that’s a whole bunch of people in the kitchen making tamales. Or if you’re making your end-of-the-year dumplings, that’s a whole bunch of people in the year mak-, in the kitchen at the end of the year making the holiday dumplings. It’s, it’s rarely something that, done on large scale, you do by yourself.

Riss: Yeess! I think that it’s so, it’s so crazy that you say that, because it’s, like, it’s meant to feed the community? And it’s also, like –

Sarah: Yes!

Riss: – it’s also done, like –

Sarah: In community.

Riss: – with other people – exactly! I love that so much. Like, just speaking of lumpia in general, which is the Filipino egg roll, way, I’m having a launch party, and for one of them, I’m bringing a bunch of lumpia. Like, I’m bringing a bunch of –

Sarah: Yaaay!

Riss: – egg rolls. Yeah! And what is me and, you know, my stepfather and my mom and my kids are probably going to sit at the table at my mom’s house and, like, roll them, right, because, you know, just one person rolling them is going to take forever, but we could all, like, someone, someone get the egg yolks, like, one, it’s like, you know, my stepfather’s just…

Sarah: Do an assembly line, yeah.

Riss: – cooking the meat, and we’re just, like, going, you know, and I –

Sarah: Boom-boom-boom-boom-boom.

Riss: – I love that part about it, for sure.

Sarah: I always ask this question: what books are you reading right now that you want to tell people about?

Riss: Okay. Hmm. All right. So I am reading The Everlasting by Alix E. Harrow. That is incredible. It is – I’m not going to spoil it too much, but it’s yearning; it’s like soulmates –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Riss: – going across time? And –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – just, like, losing each other each time. And it’s so…

Sarah: Star-crossed, star-crossed lovers.

Riss: Star-crossed lovers, and it’s just like, it’s, like, heart-wrenching; it’s beautiful.

I just finished Heart the Lover by Lily King, and that tore me apart. It’s just, it’s gorgeous. Like, if you like to cry, read Heart the Lover. It’s basically like a love story over a decade, and it’s just so well-written and so engrossing and beautiful. I read across genres, so.

Sarah: Oh yeah, me too.

Riss: Yeah, so.

And then, and then I am also reading Bad Words, and Bad Words is by Rioghnach Robinson, and Bad Words is supposed to be, like, a Book of the Year when it comes out, and for, for good reason. It’s –

Sarah: Yeah?

Riss: – it’s incredible. It’s like, if you can get your hands on an ARC, or if you are, if you’ve heard of it or you haven’t heard of it, like, be on the lookout for it? Be on the watch for it. ARCs are going around. I don’t think it’s coming out until October, and there’s already, like, you know, advanced readers copies if you don’t know what an ARC is.

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: Like, readers are already read-, have already been reading it for the past like couple of months, because that’s how amazing this book is. It’s incredible. It’s going to, like, everywhere. All, all kind of foreign countries but it’s so good. It’s basically about a blogger who basically, like, single-handedly makes a book flop. The female main character, the FMC in the book is the blogger, and –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – she is, like, harsh. She’s just like a harsh critic of books, and she just has, the, the MMC’s book is coming out, and it was supposed to be The Big Book of the Year –

Sarah: Yep.

Riss: – like the huge book of the year. And she writes a review and tanks his release completely. And he just, like, he hates her, and she just – you know what I mean? And basically, ‘cause then she does the same thing to his second book. Just – and that’s not a spoiler ‘cause, like, like, on the –

Sarah: No, it’s on the cover copy.

Riss: …it’s on the cover.

Sarah: It’s on the cover copy.

Riss: Oh my God. Oh my God. That book is incredible. I’m like, I’m such a slow reader, especially now, like, with physicals. Audiobooks are like a godsend for me. I just love audiobooks because I’m always on the go, but – so I’m like a slow reader, but I’m, when I sit with it, I’m just, like, engrossed. Like, I’m just flying through, it’s so good. So yeah.

Sarah: I have already heard people talking about this book as well.

Riss: Have you?

Sarah: Yes, and –

Riss: Have you? It’s so good.

Sarah: – it is coming out on October 6th; I just looked it up.

Riss: Okay.

Sarah: But it’ll be in the show notes, so do not worry.

Riss: Yeah.

Sarah: Where can people find you if you wish to be found?

Riss: I want to say Instagram mostly under Riss M, just rissmneilson. Across the board on socials I am just rissmneilson. Also, Instagram I’m most on, and then TikTok , I do TikTok and Threads. Those are my three socials. And then as for anything else, if you like newsletters, I’m on Substack. I love doing newsletters, so that’s a good place if you don’t, if you’re not social media heavy.

Sarah: That’s excellent! I will make sure to link to all of them.

Riss: Thank you!

Sarah: Before we go, I do have an idea for you? I’m really good –

Riss: Okay.

Sarah: – at creating work for other people; I apologize?

Riss: No, I love that.

Sarah: If you wanted to do like a social media restaurant crawl from the point of view of your characters, you could take all these restaurants that you’ve named, like, put them on a map, and be like, Here’s the, here’s the crawl that you need to do to really, really understand this book.

Riss: Experience this book?

Sarah: Yeah!

Riss: Oh, I love that! I love that idea. You know what the crazy part is? I’m glad you said it like that, because I’ve always tried to do those – and I forget every time – I’ve tried to do those videos where, like, you bring your book to the locations and…

Sarah: Yes!

Riss: – but because I forget, I think that this is probably a way better –

Sarah: Yeah.

Riss: – way for me to do that, you know, instead of, like, waiting until I magically go to that restaurant one Thursday –

Sarah: No, no.

Riss: – and remember to bring my book.

Sarah: I would never remember to bring the book. But if you get, like, a little map of Rhode Island from, like, a stock image place, you can just sort of, like, put, like, these, this is the places that you need to go to really experience this book and what it tastes like. We can’t, you know, you can’t go to the, the, to Celia’s; you can’t go to the restaurant, but you can go to these ones and they’re just as good!

Riss: Yeah, you know what? Someone right now is doing the thing that, I’m, I have to do that, like, what you’re saying, ‘cause someone’s doing the thing that I always want to do right now while reading an early copy. She just, like, went to Seven Stars Bakery, and she, like, ordered what Olivia and Carmello ordered, and it was so cute. I’ve seen it on TikTok. I’m like, Oh my God. So yeah, I’m going to do that. That’s – thank you for giving me work! Like, good work, you know? [Laughs]

Sarah: You’re welcome! I’m a terrible, I’m a terrible person to know.

Thank you so much for doing this interview. I have had the best time.

Riss: Thank you, Sarah. It has been amazing. Yeah.

Sarah: Well, eventually I will get to Providence, and I will ask you to join me at one of these places because –

Riss: Oh –

Sarah: – the food sounds so good.

Riss: – I am, I am there. If you come to Providence, it’s a lunch date for sure. Like, just be ready.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you tremendously to Riss for hanging out with me, and I will have links to all of the books that she talked about and, of course, the restaurants; do not worry. I also have a link to the article about being Prince’s private chef, which I still read every now and again because it seems both incredible and also terrifying.

You can find the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 710.

As always, I end with a terrible joke, and this week is no exception. This joke is from hounddoom92.

What do you call an Irishman who bounces off walls?

What do you call an Irishman who bounces off the walls?

Rick O’Shea.

[Laughs] I saw that joke and went – [gasps] – Oooh! Like, no one was in the room. I was doing that at myself, because I was – [laughs more] – Rick O’Shea! Happy belated St. Patrick’s, everybody.

On behalf of everyone here, I wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and I’ll see you back here next week. And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening. You’re welcome for talking!

[end of music]