644. Fanfic, Generosity, and Really Long Books with Anne, Sandra, Miriam, Carrie A, and Lisa

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Sarah Wendell: Hello, happy December, and welcome to Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, episode number 644. My guests this week, in the words of my home vernacular, are yinz n’at. We’re traveling all over the country this week. We’re talking about fanfic, we’re finding an unending treasure trove of books to read from a new favorite author, and we’re taking time for restorative action.

If you would like to be a part of these episodes, there is still time to sign up. If you are a member of the podcast Patreon, you can find the link on Patreon; you can find it in the Discord. Patreon folks, if you want to join me for a little interview, I promise it’s easy, I promise it’s fun, and it’s lovely to have everyone from all over the world joining us this month.

I have a compliment this week, which makes me very happy.

To Sandra B.: Sandra, if you were a show, a song, an album, a movie, a production, you’d be number one in every category and nominated for every single thing, because you are original, delightful, and terrific fun.

If you would like to support the show, if you would like to make sure that every episode has a transcript, courtesy of garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! – [Hi! – gk] – and if you would like to, you know, be part of these episodes, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges keep me going, they make the show accessible, and it means a lot to know you support my work here, so thank you, thank you, thank you. Again, if you want to have a look, I’m sure you know, but I’m going to say it again: patreon.com/SmartBitches.

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All right, let’s get started with our first interview. On with the holiday recs and wishes from around the world.

[music]

Sarah: Hello!

Anne: Hi! Oh my God, it’s exciting to hear your voice. I –

[Laughter]

Anne: I’ve listened to your podcast so much, so this is exciting!

Sarah: Thank you for doing one of these interviews! I really appreciate it!

Anne: It’s super exciting. I’m Anne. I’m in Providence, Rhode Island, and a lifelong romance reader.

Sarah: Yay! Excellent. What book or books do you want to recommend to people that you read this year that you liked?

Anne: This year I ended up doing something completely unexpected.

Sarah: Ooh.

Anne: I always read about a hundred to a hundred and fifty books a year. Typical romance reader, right?

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Anne: And this year I think I’ve read maybe thirty? It’s just –

Sarah: Wow!

Anne: So what happened was, I was chugging along, and then Cat Sebastian sent out her April newsletter – you know, the author Cat Sebastian.

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: And in her April newsletter she’s like, In a couple of months my new book is coming out; preorder. And I’m like, Of course it’s preordered, and it was You Should Be So Lucky. I’m so excited to read it, and she said, In the meantime, here, take, here’s a link to my bookmarks in AO3, Archive of Our Own –

Sarah: Oh no!

Anne: – my favorite Archive of Our Own fanfic. And I’m like, I am clicking that link.

Sarah: Ohhh, yes, you are!

Anne: Right! [Laughs] You can’t help it! And her username on AO3 is cat_marlowe, which is lovely. And so there was a list of like sixty of her favorite fanfics, and I hadn’t – I’d been aware of AO3; they’ve been around for about fifteen years –

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: – you know, millions and millions of users, but I hadn’t really gone down that, that road before because I read books! Right? I’m, I’m not a –

Sarah: Of course!

Anne: I don’t really tend to watch movies or videos, ‘cause I’m just so busy reading my next book. So I was like, Ah, I don’t think fanfic is for me – although they do have book fanfic on there – but I thought, Eh, it’s not really for me, but since Cat recommended it, I’m like, Sure, I’ll try it.

Sarah: Yeah!

Anne: I ended up in a wormhole. It was about, there, she recommended a Marvel movies fanfic by an author named thepartyresponsible.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Anne: It was amazing. There was banter; there was vibe; there were feelings; the writing was amazing. I was swept away! And I’m like, Oh my – this is just as good or better than published books! This is amazing. What else is there? And I ended up in this wormhole. I’m on the board of our state – I’m in Rhode Island – I’m on the board of our state’s literary nonprofit arts society, right. So I’m in a board meeting, and everyone’s like, What books are your reading?

Sarah: Oh God! Well – 

Anne: People are like, Well, I won the Pushcart Prize this year, and this is what I’m reading. I mean, these are impressive people –

Sarah: Right.

Anne: – and I’m like, Well, I’m reading a two-hundred-thousand-word fanfic about Sherlock Holmes’ clone baby. And it is –

Sarah: Oh my God! Please tell me this is in the minutes? I am so happy for you! That’s…

Anne: It, and it was so good! You could not put it down! I was, didn’t get any sleep all summer! [Laughs] I mean, it was just, of course you have to read that! And it was so witty and so much fun and so, just, it was a blast! So I ended up just sort of diving deeper and deeper, and I thought I would share, if it’s okay with you, some of my tips for somebody who has been maybe a little intimidated by AO3? It’s huge.

Sarah: Absolutely, yes! Tell me the name, by the way, of the organization that you volunteer for? I’ll put it in the show notes.

Anne: Oh, thank you! It’s LitArts RI.

Sarah: All right, cool. I will add that –

Anne: Yeah.

Sarah: – to the show notes and make sure everyone can check it out.

Anne: Thank you. There’s about five hundred writers in Rhode Island who all belong to it.

Sarah: What a cool thing!

Anne: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: There’s a writer group for horror, thriller, and weird fiction. Oh, that just spoke to my heart. [Laughs] This is great!

Anne: It’s amazing. They’re, they’re really amazing.

Sarah: What a cool organization! Thank you for introducing them to me. Now tell me all your tips for jumping in. If, if you’re not start- – and I will, of course, link to Cat Sebastian’s bookmarks, folks. Don’t worry; it’ll be in the show notes. I would never do that.

Anne: Awesome! So there’s 13.8 million works at AO3. That’s a, that’s a lot.

Sarah: That’s – wow.

Anne: [Laughs] And it’s so intimidating, you might not want to even, like, get started?

Sarah: Yeah!

Anne: What I figured is, when you click on, like, a tag or do a search, you can sort and filter!

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: And it’s the best sort and filter ever, so you can sort! You can just say, Show me all of these works, but by the number of kudos they got.

Sarah: Yep.

Anne: And the good stuff immediately goes to the top! And I didn’t know you could do – suddenly, I’m like, Oh my God, and I’m – it, it, it’s just amazing. You can find everything you ever wanted.

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: Plus you can filter out the stuff you don’t want. You can say, I don’t want this kind of relationship; I don’t want this particular character, right. I, I’m about to go to bed in fifteen minutes, and I only want something that’s five thousand words. Or I want something just to sink into, and I want something that’s over a hundred thousand words.

Sarah: Yes. I want to not be here for many days.

Anne: Right!

Sarah: Yeah.

Anne: Right! [Laughs] I love me a good long fic, and sometimes books are frustrating that way, because they just may not be long enough. You get a book hangover –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Anne: – and you’re just like, Wait, I wish it could have gone on. But with AO3, sometimes they’ll go on for two hundred thousand words, and you’re like, This is great. This is what I needed to just float along. Often it’s very vibe-based –

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: – so you just pick your vibe that you want and just float along. Sometimes you can pick your favorite book. For example, the Vorkosigan Saga?

Sarah: Oh yes. There’s a lot of Miles Vorkosigan’s fanfic for sure.

Anne: That’s right, and there’s also a lot of fanfic about his mother, who is what a lot, a lot of people’s favorite character.

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: So it’s exciting too. I also fell down a hole around Inception, which is a movie I’ve never seen. I never need to see it!

Sarah: No, you don’t need to see it; it’s fine!

Anne: No. There are two characters that apparently exchange maybe three or four lines in the movie, but everybody in the romance world went, Oh my God, they’re meant to be together.

Sarah: Yep.

Anne: And there’s one, it’s literally called “The One Where They’re Stars on HGTV.” It goes on forever, and literally they are stars on HGTV, and that’s the whole story! Just every episode, and they’re decorating, and they’re finding houses, and I’m like, This is, this is everything I ever wanted right before I go to bed at night to make me feel calm and happy.

I also am a big fan of hockey romance? And if you’re –

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: Yeah.

Sarah: There’s a lot there, right?

Anne: Mm-hmm. And if you’re a huge hockey romance fan, there are a lot of books, but never enough books.

Sarah: Yes. Oh yes. That is a voracious reading, like, sub-community within romance.

Anne: Exactly! So there’s a lot on AO3 for hockey romance lovers and original, with original characters. Sometimes real-life characters.

Sarah: Yep.

Anne: Sometimes original characters. One of my favorites is youcouldmakealife. She’s a, an amazing writer. She’s also a published author under the name Taylor Fitzpatrick. She’s a big favorite hockey romance writer. I actually like her AO3 better; I think she does really, really well in kind of this format of episodic –

Sarah: Yeah.

Anne: – serial writing?

Sarah: Yeah.

Anne: Her books are great! But her AO3 is amazing.

Sarah: What’s her screen name again?

Anne: Youcouldmakealife, all run together as one word.

Sarah: Oh, that’s why I’m not –

Anne: Yes.

Sarah: Youcouldmakealife. Wow, not hitting the space bar is very hard.

Anne: Yes.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Anne: Yes. And, and you may autocorrect, which screws it up too.

Sarah: Yeess! My, my autocorrect –

Anne: She’s got –

Sarah: – is like, Did you mean none of those things? No.

Anne: Yes! So the –

Sarah: Putting it in the show notes, folks! Don’t worry!

Anne: [Laughs] Some of her serials go on for a long time; some of them are shorter. A lot of them are in the same universe, so you kind of sink in and then just get to know it, which is fun.

Sarah: That’s excellent.

Anne: Another good hockey writer who a lot of people know as Catherine Cloud; she’s written several books that are available on Amazon and the rest of it, but on AO3, she is known as thesameoldstreets, all one word.

Sarah: What do these people have against the space bar? Honestly.

Anne: Maybe it’s just in-universe spelling.

Sarah: Or it’s, it’s, you know, it’s a carryover from an older platform like LiveJournal or whatever or, or places where you –

Anne: Exactly.

Sarah: – had to use underscores, so just make it all one word.

Anne: Internet.

Sarah: I’m, I’m sure it’s a lore thing, but okay. I, I got the link; I’m very excited.

Anne: Awesome. And then there’s one author who is my absolute favorite, and many, many other hockey people’s favorite.

Sarah: Oh really?

Anne: But you’re not allowed to say her name off-platform. She’s made it very clear, I don’t want my name going outside fanfic.

Sarah: Okay!

Anne: So I’m just going to give you a tip.

Sarah: Okay.

Anne: You want to look for hockey, and you want to look for the tag hockey gods.

Sarah: Hockey gods.

Anne: That’s right, and it’s, it’s wonderful. It is not about gods, but that’s a good tag to look for her stuff under, and it’s very, very highly kudo-ed, so if you’re sorting by kudos or sorting by bookmarks, you’ll, it’ll come up and you will be unbelievably happy. It is romantic and feminist and fun, and you’ll love it.

Sarah: Awesome! This was so generous of you; thank you!

Anne: No problem.

Sarah: Is there a book you’re looking forward to? Please share, but also your wishes for 2025 for everybody.

Anne: Oh my gosh. My, well, my wish for everybody is that they find just a wonderful author that they love, no matter what platform, and they can, somebody with a whole bunch of backlist.

Sarah: Oh yes!

Anne: Right?

Sarah: You find the fic, the fic is your ship, it is finished, and it’s many thousands of words! Yes!

Anne: And you can just see a, sink into it and just, when you need to, just sail away. Yeah.

Sarah: Yep.

Anne: Yeah.

Sarah: See you next year, folks. When you start reading, well, we’ll see you mid, you know, mid June next year; it’ll be fine.

Anne: Exactly! The book I’m most looking forward to, I don’t know if it’s actually coming out in 2025. It is the next Cat Sebastian. It’s called Star Shipped, which of course you can tell her love of fanfic –

Sarah: Oh, for sure!

Anne: – coming out in that title. It is enemies-to-lovers –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Anne: – science fiction TV series actors falling in love. And it’s going to be out from Avon Books.

Sarah: That’s like –

Anne: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, my brain just short-circuited. That’s like –

Anne: Uh-huh.

Sarah: – the Ur fic of the original fic pair, of the original slash pair. This is like –

Anne: Exactly!

Sarah: This is, this is the meta, meta of that, of Oh my gosh! That’s so smart!

Anne: I know, and you think slash started really in the ‘70s.

Sarah: Oh, long-ass time ago!

Anne: Yeah! And it was –

Sarah: Wow!

Anne: – a lot of it was Star, Star Trek back then, and now she’s, yeah, she’s circling back to our roots, I guess, as fanfic lovers.

Sarah: Yeah, there’s no cover; there’s nothing from –

Anne: Nothing!

Sarah: It has an, has an Amazon number –

Anne: Uh-huh.

Sarah: – but that Amazon number isn’t working. Wooow!

Anne: It was announced in June, I think?

Sarah: Yeah? I’m not seeing it on any retailer, so they haven’t reserved a spot. That is very weird! Hm.

Anne: It’s coming. It’s coming. In the meantime, I have actually saved You Should Be So Lucky because I got carried away by the AO3, like, river, and I saved it for a bad day.

Sarah: Yep.

Anne: So it’s nice to know that I have this lovely, wonderful – I know it’s going to be amazing. Her books are always amazing.

Sarah: Yes.

Anne: And I have this, like, gift that I get to open and a bad day coming up, and it actually softens the upcoming year.

Sarah: Oh, absolutely. I ended up saving the Richard Osman book – so he wrote The Thursday Murder Club, but then there was a new one that they wrote, and it was We Solve Crime, We Solve Murder, We Solve Things. And –

Anne: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – I saved it; I had the audiobook, and I saved it, and I was like, What am I saving this for? Oh well, I’ll figure it out. And on election day I was like, Oh, that’s what I saved this book for! So I did like a couple of hours of work, and I could not control, like, the anxiety in my body? I put that on and I, I think I stress, I stress-baked babka. I had so much babka; it’s so great!

Anne: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I listened to that one book all day. That’s what I saved it for. It’s so perfect when you save something and then you’re like, Now I, I need to break the glass now; I know it’s time to read this.

Anne: Exactly! Break the glass: that’s exactly what you were doing.

Sarah: Yes, and it was perfect! I just had my headphones on; I had noise canceling.

Anne: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: For a couple of hours I was not in my body; it was great. Like, you made, you made the wish for everyone to find a wonderful author on any platform. I want to add to that like, When they most need it.

Anne: Yes!

Sarah: Right?

Anne: Yes!

Sarah: Like, when you have a glass-breaking need, that they have –

Anne: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – something for you. Yes.

Anne: Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Sarah: This is so generous of you to give so many ideas for, for fanfic. I’m so excited to link to them. That was incredibly awesome recommendation list, too. Thank you!

Anne: Thank you. I want to make sure: did I let you know the name of the book that was the Sherlock Holmes clone baby?

Sarah: No, but I think you should, because someone is absolutely screaming at, at, right now while –

Anne: Right.

Sarah: – we’re talking. They’re screaming, I need to know which one it was!

Anne: [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes, please tell me the name of it!

Anne: It is called “Nature and Nurture” –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Anne: – is the name of the fanfic. It’s about two hundred thousand words, and it is by earlgreytea68, all one word, and 68 is six-eight.

Sarah: I found a translation of this fic. That’s very funny.

Anne: Oh yeah, some of the most popular fanfics are translated into Russian, Polish, all different languages. A lot of the most popular fanfics are also made into podfic. So –

Sarah: Podfic!

Anne: Yes! So you can listen to them when you just need to bake babka and walk around. So you’ll find one of your favorite, and usually the author will say, There’s a podfic of this, and they’ll link to it. You just have to, to – usually it’s in the tags; there’s a tag for podfic – but it’s usually of a very popular fanfic.

Sarah: Outstanding.

Anne: Yeah.

Sarah: You, I have just learned so many things, and I’m so excited. Thank you for this.

Anne: Yay! Well, thank you for inviting everybody on! This is super.

Sarah: They’re my favorite! It’s so fun to, like, talk to everybody! I’m going to have some show notes for this – all of the links will be in the show notes. Do not worry! Do not worry; I won’t leave you hanging.

[music]

Sandra: My name is Sandra. I am, I live in California. I’ve been listening to the podcast for a few years, which I know is very small compared to some people who’ve been listening for like decades! So yeah, super excited to be doing this.

Sarah: I’m so glad! What books did you read this year that you want to tell people about?

Sandra: I restrained myself to one book.

Sarah: Wow!

Sandra: I know. I’m proud of me too. The book I want to tell people about is called Whisper by Tal Bauer? It is a book about the war on terror, so not a comfort read; maybe something to put on the TBR for a later date for some of us. But I, I just thought this book was so incredible, so I really wanted to let everyone know about it. It’s basically a book about what it would be like to live in a place that becomes very violent?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: Or to, you know, grow up in a place that is very violent, and there’s lots of different people trying to achieve different things –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: – and a lot of people mostly are just trying to survive and try to have a good life?

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: And, I mean, I grew up while the war on terror was happening, and, you know, this book really hits a lot of the, like, touch points or big events that, that I lived through? And it, but the thing that was so cool about it is that I feel like it explores, like, what would it be like to grow, to grow up with this as your reality if you’re living in the Middle East –

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: – and what does it mean for, I mean, just, you know, all of us? What does it mean for, you know, the millions and millions of Muslims who are living and striving for peace –

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: – in their own countries and –

Sarah: Yes.

Sandra: – wherever they are. And there’s just so, like, it’s just really moving, and it, I feel like the author had some answers for questions that I had, you know, felt growing up like, What does this all mean for all of us?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: And so, yeah, it was an awesome book. Definitely very intense. It’s rated as romantic suspense; it bears no resemblance to a romantic suspense –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sandra: – novel.

Sarah: It’s also tagged –

Sandra: No…

Sarah: It’s also tagged as male/male romance, military fiction, contemporary romance, romantic suspense, yes. It’s none of those things? Is there a romance at all, or does, no happy ending? I hate when the tags are wrong, right? It’s so annoying.

Sandra: [Laughs] There is, I mean, I think if you read the blurb you’ll know that you won’t be sad at the end of the book.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: But it, like, when you think of a romance, it has certain beats. This is not a romance –

Sarah: This is…

Sandra: – it’s a book about war, you know.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sandra: There is a central romance that does drive the story forward.

Sarah: Right.

Sandra: Other than that, would I call this a romance? Not exactly.

Sarah: Not so much.

Sandra: There is love; there is love.

Sarah: It’s also seven hundred plus pages? This book is not messing around. That’s a big book!

Sandra: It is also long –

[Laughter]

Sandra: – that is true. I feel like I’ve sold this as like, Yeah, you know, you could think about stuff, you could come to terms with things, but yes, it will take seven hundred pages to do that, but it is so worth it. I really loved it, and I flew through it. It was very engaging.

Sarah: Oh! Well, that’s always good. It’s, it’s always nice to know if you’re looking at a book that’s that large to have endorsements that say, Nonono, you don’t notice how long it is once you start. Well, maybe one way in which this does have some resemblance to romance is that it does traffic heavily in empathy, which I think is romance’s –

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: – greatest strength: it’s to invite you to feel the emotions of other people, especially the really intimate ones like fear or love or arousal, and this seems like it’s going to be a very empathetic read, allowing you to experience what you only saw on TV as a kid.

Sandra: Yeah! And the main character, so the main character is someone working in the CIA when 9/11 happens –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: – and he’s gay, and he’s, like, as out as you can be in that era?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: And so I think he is a great, like, protagonist to delve into the questions of, like, Oh, how do I feel about, like, going to this place and, and in my place in the military as a gay man –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: – I think it gives him, like, you know, nuanced and kind of wary or, like, skeptical perspective on the whole thing.

Sarah: Yeah. For sure. Yeah, that makes sense. And I’m really glad to know about this book! Thank you for telling me about it!

Sandra: I hope this will, you know, inspire more people to read it, ‘cause I thought it was very awesome.

Sarah: And they, they’ll come find you to talk about it.

Sandra: Yes.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sandra: Hopefully.

Sarah: Well, all of these will be in the show notes, so do not worry.

What are your wishes for 2025?

Sandra: My – oh, I have wishes for the holidays, but I guess they also make sense for all the time. My wish –

Sarah: What, make your wishes in whatever direction you want. This is not a firm process; it’s very fluid.

Sandra: Yeah. My wish for everyone is that they can, during the holidays and, you know, in 2025, do just one more thing to fill up their cup and make their life something that fills up their cup. I feel like the holidays especially can be, like, a very mixed bag, or maybe more bad than good for a lot of us.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: I feel like, yeah, and I feel like I’m looking forward to the holidays, and I’m happy that the holidays are here for the first time, like, ever in my life, and I feel like I’m just so thankful to be here, and I want the holidays and, you know, I guess all the time to be more restorative –

Sarah: Yes.

Sandra: – for everyone. And so if you can just do one thing to, like, prioritize yourself, I hope that people are in a position to be able to do that and that they, they choose to do that.

Sarah: That is a really lovely wish. I am very deliberately making sure that I have, like, a list of the activities that I do that fast-recharge me? Like, you know how you plug in your phone and sometimes it’s like fast charging! Done in forty-five minutes. I, I have some things that I do that I feel like I am being fast-charged. Like, I am being re-spilled and restored very quickly.

Sandra: Totally.

Sarah: But I have to make a list because when I’m burnt out I don’t remember how to do things. [Laughs]

Sandra: Yeah, totally!

Sarah: Past, Past Sarah needs a menu for Future Sarah, so I, I’ve been writing them down. That’s a really –

Sandra: Yeah!

Sarah: – really lovely wish, and I’m so happy that you’re, you know, looking forward to the holidays! That’s great!

Sandra: Yeah. I’m very, I feel like this’ll be a re-, a restoring, recharging time for me, so I, I want some of that –

Sarah: For everybody.

Sandra: – energy to go out to everyone else too.

Sarah: I hope that it is extremely restorative for you and that you really enjoy every part of your, of your holiday season. Thank you so much for doing this interview. It is so lovely to meet you, and thank you for the recommendation and the very generous wishes.

Sandra: Thank you for putting this together, Sarah. I can’t wait to hear what everyone else is saying.

Sarah: Yay!

[music]

Miriam: My name is Miriam, and I live in Rhode Island?

Sarah: You’re the second person from Rhode Island that I’ve spoken to for these, so this’ll be a Rhode-Island-heavy episode. What books do you want to recommend to everyone that you read this year?

Miriam: This year I read The Hands of the Emperor and the sequel, At the Feet of the Sun, by Victoria Goddard? And these aren’t really romance novels, I’ll say that, but they’re fantasy, and they’re very long and complex, and the funny thing about them is that they’re about a high-level government administrator who has a deep affection for the emperor, who he’s known for a thousand years, because he’s been working that long for him, and he has such a great affection that it causes him to break the taboos keeping them from being friends, and that’s the first book, The Hands of the Emperor. And the second book, At the Feet of the Sun, it develops their relationship even more and shows how they become very, very close through a series of adventures. And those were just really fantastic books. I laughed, I cried, and I highly recommend them to anyone.

Sarah: First, I love that the main character is basically a bureaucrat; that’s great. I love fantasy about, like, random, ordinary people?

Miriam: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Like, what would you do in this weird situation?

Miriam: Right. [Laughs]

Sarah: But I also love that these books are 969 and 1,330 pages, respectively. So you could read these for a really long while and check out of the whole world.

Miriam: They’re good.

Sarah: This is, this is going to take some time.

Miriam: [Laughs] Yes. Each of those took me a week, so.

Sarah: Yeah, I could believe it. Did it, did they, did it fly by, or were you like, Okay, this is really long, but I’m going to persevere?

Miriam: It flew by! And I’m, I’m usually a quick reader, so I was even surprised it took me a long time, but I guess have to do some work in between reading, right? But –

Sarah: [Sighs] Fine, I guess.

Miriam: [Laughs] But I, I really love long, meaty books you can really get into, so those were perfect for me.

Sarah: This is very funny, because the other person I spoke to, Anne, who is also in Rhode Island, recommended fanfic and provided some links to specific ones that are many, many hundreds of thousands of words long. So I, I have a feeling that one of the trends for these recommendations will be really long stuff. Start this and just keep going, and you can just stay in this world for a nice, long time. That’s an excellent recommendation! Thank you!

Miriam: Yeah! Great! Hope people read them.

Sarah: Yeah, if, if anyone picks these up, I want to hear about it.

So what are your wishes for 2025?

Miriam: So it was, it was a pretty stressful year for me personally this year –

Sarah: Just a little.

Miriam: – so I’m hoping we – [laughs] – yes – so I’m hoping next year will be a little less stressful and I’ll feel more capable of reading new books and new series, because, you know, when you’re just kind of trying to get through life and trying to get through every day, you don’t want to pick up new things as often. Feel kind of bad about that, but you just want some comfort reads. And it, I did read, again, The Hands of the Emperor, those were new books, that’s true. But a lot of, I read a lot of fanfic this year and old books that I’d read before, so I’m hoping maybe next year I can pick up some new series and branch out a little bit.

Sarah: You know, I completely understand not being able to start a new thing? But if you’re going to do the mental lifting of a heavy, of a, of a, of a world? Doing it for thirteen hundred or, in this case, two, more than two thousand pages makes total sense, ‘cause if you’re going to do all the work to get into the world, you might as well just be there for a while. That’s so cool! That’s also a really good wish. I’m sorry that you had a stressful year, and I hope, I hope this year is much less stressful and much more restorative for you.

Miriam: Thanks. [Laughs]

Sarah: Now, did you bring a bad joke? It is okay if you did not.

Miriam: I did! I had: Who won the neck decoration contest? It was a tie.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s funny! I like that one; I haven’t heard that before! I’m going to torture my whole family now; it’s going to be great!

Miriam: Good. I love that joke, so I thought that’d be funny.

[music]

Sarah: I rarely do a midroll ad. That is what these are called when they’re right in the middle? But I wanted to, on my own, tell you about a new book that is out this week: Designs on You by Jaci Burton. It’s everywhere; it’s going to be in bookstores; it’s going to be in libraries. It’s Jaci Burton, for crying out loud. Now, you might have guessed that this isn’t an official spot, because I don’t have a formal script. It’s not; I am doing this ‘cause I want to, and there’s really no compensation here for me unless you buy a copy through our affiliate links, in which case we get like thirty-two cents, so thank you.

Here is some information about Designs on You: there is a game designer and an interior designer, and there’s an age difference with a younger man, and there’s also banter. Here is some cover copy:

>> Natalie Parker is in her mid-thirties, divorced, and firmly focused on her newly resurrected career and her two children. When her sister asks her to help design the backyard in the new home she shares with her boyfriend Linc, Natalie is more than happy to take on this project, but she is not prepared for Linc’s younger brother, Eugene Kennedy, a videogame designer. He’s smart; he’s good-looking; he flirts with Natalie. Her kids like him; her very difficult-to-please mother likes him; her sister likes him. Everybody likes him! The only reason that she’s not with him is her, and maybe she’s holding herself back. Maybe it’s time for her to create the perfect home and the perfect Happily Ever After.

Reviewers have been calling Designs on You cute and sweet, so if you’re looking for a contemporary with lots of banter, have a look at Designs on You. It is out now wherever books are sold.

And now, back to the show.

[music]

Carrie A.: Hi, how are you?

Sarah: I am good. How are you doing?

Carrie: I’m well, thanks.

Sarah: Thank you for doing this!

Carrie: I’m excited to talk to you!

Sarah: Oh, that’s so lovely! I love doing these. Thank you for signing up to do an interview.

Carrie: Oh, I’m looking forward to it. These are my favorite episodes of the year.

Sarah: Oh, you know what, you’re not the first person to tell me that, and it makes me really happy, so thank you. I, I love how much everyone loves from hearing everybody else. It’s so great.

Carrie: I am Carrie A., and I am in north central Texas.

Sarah: Well, welcome to the show! Thank you for joining us. Please tell me what book do you want to recommend – or books; people have brought more than one – that you would like to recommend to everyone that you read this year?

Carrie: Okay, so the first one is not a romance.

Sarah: That’s okay!

Carrie: Okay. It just came out this week, and I’m so excited about it. It is Cher: The Memoir, Part One. It’s –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Carrie: – so good!

Sarah: You’ve already read it?

Carrie: I, I have not finished it yet, but it’s so good I already want to recommend it.

Sarah: [Gasps]

Carrie: It’s cool because she starts out with her family history, which I was not expecting, and even that was interesting.

Sarah: Ohhh. Are you reading it or listening?

Carrie: So I’m listening and I’m, I did not know this, but she is dyslexic, so she doesn’t read the entire book. She will read the beginning of the chapter, and then the actress that played her on, in the Broadway musical finishes out the chapter.

Sarah: Oh, come on! That’s perfect!

Carrie: That’s what I thought too.

Sarah: There are so many, oh my gosh, there are so many fake versions on Amazon.

Carrie: Oh no!

Sarah: Oh my gosh. So there’s Cher: The Memoir, Part One. Like, I don’t, first of all, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this when you search for something on Amazon, but your search results will appear at the top and then drop all the way to the bottom, and they’ll load a bunch of, like, content on top, so I’ve got to scroll to the bottom? There’s Cher –

Carrie: Yes.

Sarah: – okay, Cher New Book 2024, Cher Memoir 2024, Cher New Book 2024, Cher New Memoir: The Untold Story, Cher Memoir, Cher New Book, Cher New Book, Cher Book, Cher: The, the Diva Memoir?

Carrie: Oh!

Sarah: I think there’s like fifteen different fake ones. That’s terrible. Cher’s going to be so –

Carrie: Oh!

Sarah: She’s going to destroy all these people. I would not mess with Cher; are you kidding?

Carrie: No, I would not mess with Cher.

Sarah: No.

Carrie: Definitely not.

Sarah: I am so excited about this. You’re the second person who I’ve heard say that this is just an incredible memoir.

Carrie: It’s so interesting. I’m at the point, she’s about eleven at the point where I am, and already I’m like, Oh, I understand her so much better now.

Sarah: Oh, wow! That’s amazing. Can I just tell you, now that I’m looking up this book ‘cause I have the right one, I have this extension on my computer for Amazon that will, it’s called Library Extension, and I tell it all the libraries that I have cards, and then it loads a little side panel and tells me about this book, but at the library. So one library that I’m near has four copies of the eBook. There are 249 holds, and the estimated wait is 1,040 days! [Laughs] I’m going to celebrate like nine birthdays unless they buy more copies.

Carrie: Oh!

Sarah: The, the hold list for this book, this book is absolutely astonishing.

Carrie: Oh my gosh! Yeah, I preordered it on Audible and I’ve just been waiting. I’m like –

Sarah: That was very smart. The hold time for the eBook is just astonishing in all the libraries I have access to. You, I might have to just buy my own copy.

Carrie: And I love that her life is so big that she has to have two memoirs.

Sarah: Right? The first one’s four hundred plus pages! Like, damn! And this is like Barbra Streisand’s memoir where the audiobook is forty-eight hours long.

Carrie: That is exactly what I thought, and I bought that last year, and I listened to it on, you know, double speed, so it was still twenty-four hours long.

Sarah: Only one day! [Laughs] Instead of two.

Carrie: And she could have used an editor, because there was a lot of stuff that I was just fast-forwarding through like, okay, we’re good.

Sarah: I had heard somebody talking about how she’ll be telling a story from the memoir; she’ll, like, read from the book; and then just decide to tell a side story about how much she loves burgundy or whatever. [Laughs]

Carrie: Yeah. Like, I don’t need to know that much about you, ma’am.

Sarah: You, you can imagine, though, the director being in the booth like, I, I, I can’t, I can’t cut off Barbra.

Carrie: No, you can’t.

Sarah: So what has been the part that you found the most engaging about Cher’s memoir? Oh, this book looks so good.

Carrie: Okay, just the very first chapter where she goes into her family history. She talks about, like, her great-great-grandparents, and even they are interesting.

Sarah: Oh, see, that’s why she’s cool: she’s got all these interesting people in her history.

Carrie: She does. Every single one of them, I was sitting there going, Oh, none of, none of her – [laughs] – none of these people are just ordinary, how I think of as ordinary.

Sarah: This is –

Carrie: Like, they’re –

Sarah: – so cool.

Carrie: It is, I have loved her ever since I was a little girl. I saw her on the cover of People magazine. I had never seen anyone who looked like her before. I thought she was so beautiful –

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: – and then my mom played a record, and I just, I was in love.

Sarah: That is incredible. What a good –

Carrie: Yeah.

Sarah: – recommendation. I’m so excited to add this to my, to my TBR. Especially because the audiobook is so good. I, I really prefer having, like, someone who’s listening tell me what they think of the audiobook before I invest my brain time into it.

Carrie: Oh yes. Yeah, because sometimes, I mean, there’s some narrators on audiobooks where I’m like, I can’t listen to this.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Carrie: Exactly.

Sarah: Thank you for this rec. I am excited. Did you bring –

Carrie: You’re welcome.

Sarah: – any other recs?

Carrie: Okay, so funny, I had just listened to your most recent episode, and you said, A new book is a new book –

Sarah: Yep!

Carrie: – to you –

Sarah: Correct.

Carrie: – even if it came out years ago.

Sarah: That is correct.

Carrie: I just listened to – I mean, it was – oh, shoot, I think it’s Christmas at the Little – oh, darn, I can’t remember. It’s Rebecca Raisin. Christmas at the Little Paris Hotel, I think it’s called.

Sarah: Yes, Christmas at the Little Paris Hotel. Yep! That’s coming up!

Carrie: It’s so good. I just listened to that on Hoopla, and I was so charmed by it. It was so fun.

Sarah: It looks super cute!

Carrie: Yes. And then, you know, there’s, there’s the, the grumpy guy next door who owns a coffee shop! And she’s trying to renovate this hotel, and he has feelings about it.

Sarah: You know, that’s how most of these books go, and the movies, and they’re good every time.

Carrie: And I like grumpy/sunshine, so.

Sarah: Yeah.

Carrie: And this is definitely one of those…

Sarah: And it’s in Kindle Unlimited; for people who have Kindle Unlimited, it is there! Ooh, and the audiobook is on Hoopla, too. Yay!

Carrie: Yes, that’s where I listened to it, on Hoopla.

Sarah: Oh, perfect. Oh, that’s awesome! Thank you.

Carrie: You’re welcome!

Sarah: What wishes do you have for 2025 for everyone?

Carrie: Unfortunately, I had to revise my wishes for 2025.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yes, I think –

Carrie: After the election?

Sarah: I think a lot of us did, yes.

Carrie: And so I’m going to keep it light and keep it relevant to books instead of sharing my fears for 2025. So what I wish for everyone is a to-be-read list of the perfect length for them, ‘cause I don’t know about y’all, but sometimes mine gets too long and it stresses me out.

Sarah: Yes, absolutely!

Carrie: And I have to curate it and revise it.

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: And I also wish for people to have more read books than did-not-finish books.

Sarah: Oh, that’s a good wish!

Carrie: Thank you! Because I feel like for 2024 I had so many do-not-finishes, and, like, I don’t know what’s going on with me.  And then I realized it was stress.

Sarah: It was not just you. Unfortunately, it was not just you.

Carrie: …Well, that makes me feel good. And then I also wish for everyone to find their comfort wherever they can. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, agree.

Carrie: …feeling we’re going to need that.

Sarah: And you are definitely not alone in not being able to finish a book this year. My, my total for this year is very paltry.

Carrie: I was getting so frustrated. I’m like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t finish this!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: And when I was younger I used to insist on finishing, and I’m not like that anymore.

Sarah: No, I don’t do that either.

Carrie: If I don’t like it, I’m not going to finish it.

Sarah: Yeah, I don’t do that either. One thing I’ve noticed –

Carrie: Too many good books.

Sarah: – there are way too many good books, and I’ve noticed this year especially a lot of books that are published seem to have a plot that’s just vibes.

Carrie: [Indistinct]

Sarah: Right? Like –

Carrie: Yes.

Sarah: – it’s like the, the, the writer lined up some tropes that they wanted to include, like Only One Bed and this sort of thing, and they moved the plot from trope to trope without the characters or the plot driving it. They just sort of, they’re like signposts, and we’ve got to pave the road to each signpost? And then so much of that is just no plot, just vibes.

Carrie: I have noticed that too, and it’s, I don’t like that; it’s very annoying to me.

Sarah: It’s, it, it, I think – and this is me being persnickety – I think it asks me to do more work when it’s more, when it’s just vibes? I have to construct the character motivation and the plot.

Carrie: Yes!

Sarah: I have to do all of this extra work, and I’m like, No! [Laughs] That’s why I’m reading, so I don’t!

Carrie: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say! This is, this is for me to relax, not to do more work!

Sarah: Yes, precisely that. Yes, I agree. That is a lovely wish.

Carrie: Sure.

Sarah: Did you bring a bad joke? It is okay if you did not.

Carrie: I did; it’s really bad.

Sarah: I’m…

Carrie: It made me laugh really hard!

Sarah: I’m so excited! Okay, tell me the bad joke.

Carrie: …you’ve heard it! Okay, are you ready?

Sarah: I’m ready!

Carrie: Okay.

What did the pirate say on his eightieth birthday?

Sarah: What did the pirate say on his eightieth birthday? Okay, I give up. What?

Carrie: Ayematey! [Aye, matey, or I’m eighty!]

Sarah: [Pauses, laughs] That’s really bad. I love it! Thank you!

Carrie: I read that at work, and I laughed out loud at my desk, and I was like, Someone’s going to, I’m going to get in trouble.

Sarah: I love this joke. Thank you so much. Oh my goodness.

Carrie: Welcome! I was like, She’s probably heard it.

Sarah: Nope, never heard that one.

Carrie: Oh good.

Sarah: Thank you so much for doing this, and thank you for being part of the end-of-year episodes. It’s really lovely to talk to everybody. I’m so glad you signed up.

Carrie: Thank you for having me, Sarah. It’s nice to meet you virtually, ‘cause I feel like I know you, ‘cause you are in my ear and my brain every week.

Sarah: Hello!

[Laughter]

[music]

Lisa: My name is Lisa; I am in Savannah, Georgia, of all places.

Sarah: I do love Savannah.

Lisa: I do too.

Sarah: It’s –

Lisa: I really do.

Sarah: I mean, it’s all of the humidity with like forty-five percent more scenery.

Lisa: [Laughs] Yeah, yeah, that’s it. Well, just so much history, and my husband was in the military, and we were stationed here. I’m originally from Oklahoma?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: And I fell in love with it. So when he retired, we happened to still be here, and he said, Where do you want to retire? And I said, Well, I’m kind of there. It –

Sarah: It’s wonderfully haunted, Savannah. Just ghosts everywhere.

Lisa: Yeah. It’s great.

Sarah: Like the physical and the metaphysical population are two very different large numbers.

Lisa: That’s exactly correct.

Sarah: [Laughs] What book would you – or books; you can have more than one – would you like to recommend to everyone that you read this year?

Lisa: Well, the big one is, is The House Witch. Now, I know it’s been released this year, but it was by Delemhach? Della-hut? Double-mach I think is how she says the name?

Sarah: I’ve never heard it, so I’ll take your word for it.

Lisa: [Laughs] Well, it’s not necessarily romance, per se, but it is?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: But it’s a little fanciful? And it’s about a, a witch, he’s male, and he comes to work at a castle and ends up, you know, his power just keeps growing and growing and growing, and hijinks ensue! It’s a nice, cozy read is what it is. So I’ve just enjoyed it, and I think there, there’s two or three books in the series; they may have just released one? And so it’s just, it’s just been a real fun ride so far.

Sarah: They’re very homey, and I love characters, especially in a fantasy world or even a contemporary world, I love characters where their ability to make a home or a space welcoming and warm and other people come into that space and they feel good, people who have the power to do that, I find that fascinating as a character, especially if there’s magic involved.

Lisa: Yeah, and it is, it’s just, it’s just a really, it’s just a really fun read, and very well written, as far as I’m concerned. I read quite a bit, so it’s, it’s just one of those things where it’s, it just kind of ticked all my boxes.

Sarah: And the wizard has a cat named Kraken! What could possibly go wrong?

Lisa: Right? Right? Mine is named Gary Cooper, but, you know –

Sarah: That’s a good name for a cat!

Lisa: [Laughs]

Sarah: Have you brought any other books? It’s okay if you did; it’s okay if you –

Lisa: Well, you know, it was, and, you know, there, not really. I mean, I did start reading The Accidental Alchemist by Gigi Pandian, and that is another fantasy with an underlying slow-burn romance.

Sarah: Oooh!

Lisa: And she’s older. Like two hundred and sixty years old. She accidentally found the elixir of life –

Sarah: Oops!

Lisa: – and so that’s where the accidental part of it is. And she’s also vegan and runs into a gargoyle that’s a French cook! [Laughs] So it’s a lot of fun. It’s been a lot of fun, and she’s got recipes in the back…

Sarah: Ohhh!

Lisa: – to try.

Sarah: I like that!

Lisa: Me too.

Sarah: What are your wishes for 2025 for everyone?

Lisa: I have a, a signature on my emails that I try to live by, and it’s really my favorite, and that is, is:

>> Just remember, no act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.

Now, it doesn’t mean that you become a doormat.

Sarah: No.

Lisa: It just means be kind!

Sarah: And presume that, unless it’s really, really obvious that they don’t have good intentions, presume everyone is just as befuddled as you are.

Lisa: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, everyone’s trying the, the best that they can.

Sarah: That is a very lovely wish. Thank you for that!

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, I understand that you may have brought a joke.

Lisa: I have two.

Sarah: Amazing! I’m so excited! Bring it.

Lisa: Okay, so the first one is:

You know, earlier this year I took up origami, for a while anyway. But then I gave it up because it was too much paperwork.

Sarah: [Laughs] Nice!

Lisa: And then:

What do Alexander the Great and Winnie the Pooh have in common?

Sarah: What do Alexander the Great and Winnie the Pooh have in common? I don’t know; what?

Lisa: Oh, they both have the same middle name!

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s terrible! That’s really, really bad! Like, outstandingly bad!

Lisa: [Laughs] I know! That one was, that was my favorite?

Sarah: That is fan- – see, I’m thinking like, did they both not wear pants? Is that what this is?

[Laughter]

Lisa: Well, you never –

Sarah: Thank you!

Lisa: [Laughs] Oh no, thank you! I appreciate everything you’ve done this year. It’s been great. Every, you know, I’ve been, what, I’ve been listening for how many years now? I’m, all of ‘em. I’ve got –

Sarah: Wow.

Lisa: – all, the whole catalog. And you just, you help every week. Every week is a, is, is a, is a blessing. Thank you so much.

Sarah: That’s the nicest compliment; thank you. I’m going to get teary-eyed. That, thank you; that really touched me. Thank you very, very much for that. It is my pleasure.

Lisa: It’s always nice to know when you’re doing well, and you’re doing well.

Sarah: Thank you. I’m very honored to keep you company, so thank you for that.

Lisa: Well, thank you.

Sarah: Thank you so much for doing this interview. I love doing these, I love meeting everybody, and I know everyone who listens looks forward to them, so thank you for being part of our year-end extravaganza of guests.

Lisa: [Laughs] Well, I can’t wait to hear everybody.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Anne, Sandra, Miriam, Carrie A., and Lisa. I cannot tell you how much of an honor it is to know that every week I help. Thank you.

Please do not worry: I will have links to all of the books we mentioned and, more importantly, all the links to the fanfic! They’re in the show notes; they’ll be on smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 644. I will not leave you hanging; they are all there. I double-checked.

Next week we have more holiday wishes and recommendations, and then on December 20th, I have an interview with Elizabeth Hoyt. No, my inner thirteen-year-old has not calmed down yet. But again, like I said in the intro, if you are in the podcast Patreon or if you would like to join, there is still time to sign up for an interview, so have a look and sign up! It’s so fun to talk to all of you.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of music]