573. Man Titty Fruit Roll Up: Romance Conference Memories with Amanda

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 573 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell. My guest today is Amanda, and we are talking about romance conferences. We’re talking about what we miss about RT and RWA and what our ideal book-focused conferences would look like; plus we mention a few new conferences in case you’re looking for a local one.

I will have links to all of the things we talk about, including different episodes, past episodes, past reviews, and the conferences we mention in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

I also want to apologize for the state of my voice; I have a touch of laryngitis, so I figure either I sound really, really great or you’re wondering what happened to my voice. Well, hopefully it’ll come back. [Laughs]

I want to say hello and thank you to our Patreon community. Every pledge keeps me going, keeps the show going, makes sure that every episode has a transcript from garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! [Hey, Sarah and Amanda! – gk] If you would like to join, it would be superbly awesome if you did. You can go to patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at a dollar, and Patreon members get bonus episodes, a truly delightful Discord full of good pictures and bad jokes, and, well, you help support the show. So thank you so very much for your support.

And this is going to be a short intro, partially because this is probably about as much as my voice can do. Let’s start this podcast: on with me and Amanda talking about conferences.

[music]

Sarah: So I recently did a bonus episode – it was actually an unexpected bonus episode, ‘cause I did an interview with Robin Bradford ‘cause she wrote a book about Readers’ Advisory for romance in libraries. But we –

Amanda: I saw?

Sarah: – we started by talking about conferences, and specifically RT, and she’s been going to conferences for a really, really long time, but we were talking about, ‘member the early days of RT when you would come home with a literal suitcase full of books?

Amanda: Or you’d have to make use of, like, the mail room –

Sarah: The mail room in the –

Amanda: – or shipping room at the hotel!

Sarah: – oh! There, there was a line out the door at the FedEx in the hotel because you just had too many books!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And it was, it was weird how fast that stopped, right? Like, you used to –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – go to RT and there’d be three books on the table at breakfast, four books on the table at lunch. Whoever –

Amanda: The free book room where it was like, oh yeah!

Sarah: The free book room?

Amanda: You can pick four books!

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yep, and I remember one year –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – I went to the book room – ‘cause you only got one entry into the book room and everyone tried to go early, but then I realized some people bring their stuff later so they can, like, add their stuff after –

Amanda: Yeah! And they, or they, like, refill it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – you know, as people pick it over.

Sarah: And this was so long ago, I went in and someone was like, Would you like some, some audiobooks on tape or on CD? Because we have them and no one’s taking them, and I don’t want to bring them back. And I ended up taking, I had some, like, Susan Elizabeth Phillips novels on cassette, so this was clearly outdated, and some CDs, and I gave them away. People were really excited!

Amanda: Well, audiobooks are expensive in general.

Sarah: Audiobooks are very expensive. And I remember driving and trying to change the cassette while I was driving –

[Laughter]

Sarah: – listening to a ten-hour audiobook; it was not optimal! But I was thinking, like, it’s, it’s June/July. In past years I would have gone to RT sometime in April/May, and then I would be –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – looking at RWA in late July, and those were like the, the start and the end of conference season. Sometimes I would go to ALA. There used to be some book tech conferences like Tools of Change for Publishing that I went to a couple, for a couple of years, but the two that were like the, the anchors of my year were RT and RWA, and I, neither of them are really options for me anymore. RT doesn’t exist, and I’m not a member of RWA anymore.

But I was thinking, I kind of, there are things I don’t miss? But I miss the feeling of being in a hotel surrounded by people who were all there to talk about books with you?

Amanda: Yeah, one hundred percent.

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: There, I, same with, like, book events of, like, there’s an energy –

Sarah: There really is.

Amanda: – that is, that’s unmatched by, you know, anything else or any, any attempts to replicate it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – in a, you know, social-distancing or online-only format?

Sarah: Yes. And there’s something different between doing an event about a book where you’re all going to talk about the book, especially if it’s an author who does good events and, like, involves the audience in what they’re doing, and then a conference where everyone’s spending the night. Like, what are your some –

Amanda: My –

Sarah: What are some of your favorite, like, RT or RWA memories?

Amanda: So one, one thing I always looked forward to is seeing the decorations. Seeing –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – who is going to be plastered on the – [laughs] – elevator –

Sarah: How many nipples on the elevators?

Amanda: – or – [laughs]

Sarah: So if, if, if whoever is listening has not ever seen this, one – I would say this was probably in the last – the first time I saw this, when you could wrap the walls of the elevator, put these giant clings on the door, put things on the wall, I think that was like right after Fifty Shades was popular.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: ‘Cause I remember seeing a lot of, is it Jodi Ellen –

Amanda: Malpas?

Sarah: – Malpas; I remember seeing some of her books, like, like, the window was covered with giant book covers, like giant window clings.

Amanda: I loved the people who sponsored the room keycards, and you would get, like –

Sarah: Yes! Get a little book cover!

Amanda: – keycards with, like, cover models or, like, a book cover. [Laughs] Just seeing, like, that is wild, ‘cause it really made, I don’t know, like, me feel that this is, like, our community for the weekend.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Not like we were being kind of like shuffled into, like, the conference area, where no one was going to see us.

Sarah: No, this was –

Amanda: It was like, no, this entire hotel now has cover models floor to ceiling –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – and guests will just have to deal! [Laughs]

Sarah: So random people who are on a business trip or stopping on vacation –

Amanda: What is this?

Sarah: – are like, Why are there shirtless men covered in, covering all of the, all of the – and, and it was both doors, so you would, like, get the door to slide open left and right or close, and you’d see, like, the whole cover there. It was, I got to watch them install it; it was, it was like the biggest fruit rollup you ever saw.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Remember when you’d peel the fruit roll and get shhhh. Yeah, so they put that up and they just kind of shhhh all the way down; it was just like a big man titty fruit rollup. I think that’s –

Amanda: That was my favorite.

Sarah: – the title of this episode: Big Man Titty Fruit Rollup.

Amanda: Man titty! [Laughs]

Sarah: Let me write that down! [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, I mean I feel like it takes fruit by the foot to a different meaning, for sure.

Sarah: It really does.

[Laughter]

Amanda: And I think, like, seeing everybody, like getting together –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – with, like, you and Elyse, like, that’s, like, the one time or two times a year where we would all be in the same place?

Sarah: Mm-hmm, yeah!

Amanda: And we’ve had more reviewers come on since then, and I wish we had a reason to do that –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – with, like, the current group of people, because, like, you know, I want Shana to experience the craziness of a romance con; I want Tara to experience – like, I would love to be there and be with everybody and have them have that experience, because it is such a very surreal –

Sarah: Oh, it was so surreal, especially RT. RT was like, if there was somebody new, I used to, like, take them aside and be like, Okay, let me explain how this works.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Let me, let me explain here. But, like, I know that people have these wonderfully interesting and thoughtful answers for, like, What would you do if there’s time travel? And now I’m like, No, I would just take all the reviewers from this site and we’d go back to like RT, maybe like the year after Pittsburgh, when the hotel was actually finished? As opposed to under construction; that was terrible. But, like, way back in the day. Like, Ellora’s Cave used to, like, have their own events. Heather Graham would have a dinner.

Amanda: Ellora’s Cave – I remember when Ellora’s Cave had a booth at BookExpo America –

Sarah: Nooo!

Amanda: – and they had cover models running the booth.

Sarah: [Gasps]

Amanda: And I’ve been to BookExpo America several times. You know, Javits Center is a hellmouth, we all know it, but –

Sarah: I have to pee and I’m thirsty just thinking about it. Like, the minute you say –

Amanda: It was just –

Sarah: – Javits Center I’m, my mouth is dry and I have to pee. Like, it’s just –

Amanda: Oh, I don’t know if Ellora’s Cave –

Sarah: – Pavlovian.

Amanda: – didn’t care, but, like –

Sarah: I’m certain that is a large portion of the motivation there.

Amanda: – they, that was not like a reading the room of, like, BEA is not the place to have shirtless cover models working your table. Like, that’s not –

Sarah: I mean, it was memorable; maybe it, may-, maybe it was –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – but the thing is, BEA is for booksellers and librarians; it’s not for –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – like, the – that was before, the Ellora’s Cave days –

Amanda: That was, yeah.

Sarah: – was before they had reader days –

Amanda: BookCon.

Sarah: – at BEA, and then they had BookCon.

Amanda: Yeah! Because, like, would I have ever ridden a mechanical bull in my life? No! But there was one at RT one year, and I thought, Why not? [Laughs]

Sarah: Was that Reno? Was that Reno with the mechanical bull?

Amanda: That, that was Dallas.

Sarah: That makes sense.

Amanda: Well, Reno was the time where you, me, and Elyse went to a dispensary –

Sarah: Oh my God.

Amanda: – and then recorded a podcast while high, and it was like two hours long and had to be cut down! [Laughs]

Sarah: I had never been to a dispensary, and I don’t know if you remember this, but, like, I dressed up, I put on lipstick –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I was like, I’m going shopping, and –

Amanda: You took the lead. You were like, I got this! And Elyse and I are just like, Okay!

Sarah: I, I found the place. I got the Über. I put on nice clothes and a lipstick, and I was, like, all ready to – and, and I’m like, I could have rolled in in my morning flip-flops and yoga pants and the, the clothes I wear to go get coffee before I want anyone to see me; like, it did not matter. But I was dressing up to go to the dispensary ‘cause I was very excited about it.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And we got edibles, and we recorded this episode, and we were in my suite. That was the other thing: that hotel was ridiculous; I think it was a Peppermill? So I’ve told you about the Yiddish word ongepotchket, right? It means like overly decorated, tastelessly tacky.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That was my room: I had coral marble in the bathroom with black, glossy accents. It was –

Amanda: Was that the same hotel – that might have been, I don’t know if it was Reno or Las Vegas where, like, no, some people didn’t have a coffee maker, some people didn’t have trash cans.

Sarah: Oh, I think that was Vegas. I think that was –

Amanda: It was Vegas, okay.

Sarah: – that was the Rio.

Amanda: It was either Reno or Vegas. [Laughs]

Sarah: The Ren-, the Reno hotel, the Peppermill was very big, but very nice. The, the Rio was a trash fire. That was, people got, like, I think people got Legionnaires’ at the Rio.

Amanda: Yeah, because the entire first floor was a casino where you could smoke!

Sarah: Yeah, so you had to leave the hotel and then walk through the smoky casino and then walk another three-quarters of a mile down to the conference center.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Somebody from the RT staff who used to work there clocked from their room to the conference, and it was 1.8 miles each way –

Amanda: It was long!

Sarah: – walking. It was a lot of walking, and there was only one Starbucks. But in –

Amanda: Yeah. Poor Starbucks.

Sarah: We, we, we recorded that episode, and I edited it –

Amanda: I’ll find it.

Sarah: – and I was –

Amanda: It’s like 404 or something.

Sarah: I’m so impressed that you remember. I would just have to look at my spreadsheet.

But I was like, This is, this is really weird! I don’t know if anyone’s going to like this. So I made Adam listen to it, I sent him the MP3, and he used to go out and play trivia, bar trivia with local friends, and sometimes he’d be driving to Virginia, so he listened to it while to and from trivia in Virginia, and he said, I almost thought I had to pull over I was laughing so hard.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Because you guys are trying to name what vill-, what villain I would potentially be attracted to? You kept, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Bowser! Like, no! I’m not, I’m not into Bowser!

Amanda: It was 304; there we go.

Sarah: 304, thank you!

Amanda: We were ranking the, the Hemsworths by density?

Sarah: Mm-hmm, oh yeah, yeah. I’ll put a link in the show notes. Everyone can go back and listen to us stoned out of our gourds.

Amanda: I remember we took the edibles before dinner, and we had a nice dinner.

Sarah: Yes, and by the time dessert rolled around they’d hit, and I was like, This is the greatest chocolate cake –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – I’ve put in my mouth. Mm-mm-mm.

Amanda: I remember standing up and we’re walking to your room and I’m like, I, I probably look normal to everyone –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – but I feel like I’m walking like that, like, Monty Python skit where they’re like all legs?

Sarah: [Laughs more] I’ve forgotten how to walk!

Amanda: That’s – [laughs]

Sarah: Like, can everyone tell that I’m stoned out of my gourd right now? That was one of the first times I’d gotten high on edibles, and it was, it was an experience.

Amanda: I think it was the first time I had gotten high on edibles, for sure.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: But yeah, it was wild. But, like, doing just weird, crazy stuff! [Laughs]

Sarah: And it was a vacation about books. Like, RT was like a vacation about books, and I miss that. The other thing I miss about RT was it – so they had sessions about, like, craft and writing, and you could go to a session about building worlds in urban fantasy, and it would be like Charlaine Harris and Jeaniene Frost and all these really big names talking about worldbuilding, and then there were, like, games. I, I, I was Bingo caller one year where if you won Bingo, the authors who were sponsoring the game would have you read aloud a sex scene from one of their books in order to claim their prize, claim your prize, and so, like, we shut the door. Like, we were make, like, Okay, this is, this is just – and every time I called O69, the whole room would cheer.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I loved the games. Like, whether it was like a crossword or Bingo, something where everyone could play a game and win prizes? Because that’s the other thing: you are going to go home with stuff. There was –

Amanda: Lots of stuff.

Sarah: – serious stuff! Swag and bookmarks and –

Amanda: I still have swag –

Sarah: Oh, me too!

Amanda: – that I, like, I use.

Sarah: I use it all the time! Clip chips, I have a little lid for cat and dog food from Linda Lael Miller. That’s in the fridge right now.

Amanda: I…someone had a, a heart-shaped, like, bottle opener, and that was –

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: – on my keychain for the longest time.

Sarah: The best swag that I have is something that I only got at like the very end of the, the conferences? Farrah Rochon did a measuring spoon where the top is a tablespoon and a teaspoon, and then you flip it over and it’s a half teaspoon and a quarter teaspoon?

Amanda: Ahhh!

Sarah: So it’s like one unit? I’ve traveled with it if I was, like, going to a condo or something. It was amazing. It says on the handle, I think it’s like, Just the Right Amount of Spice – farrahrochon.com. It is the best piece of swag.

Amanda: I, I mean, like, I have a, still like a million pens and Post-its, but I’ve gotten, like, nail files –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and, like, little flashlights –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Amanda: – and stuff that are, like, really handy. There was a –

Sarah: Or pens that have flashlights on them? I love those! I travel with those.

Amanda: Yeah. And I do miss, like, tangential to, like, the games, like, we got to a point where we were hosting events, and we did the big Recommendation Party, and that was –

Sarah: That was so fun!

Amanda: – a lot of fun.

Sarah: And that was, that was when I would have a mic and each of us would come with recs, and I would just, I was like Phil Donahue; I would run around the room and I’d be like –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – Okay, tell us about a book you want to recommend, and someone went, someone stood up and went, It’s a series that’s like Harry Potter with sex magic, and the whole room went – [gasps] – and then at the end, because everyone was adding books to their Goodreads queues and putting things in their Amazon carts, when, afterward, when you pulled up one of those books on Amazon, all of the other recommends were books from that session, so we, like, screwed with the algorithm for a solid four hours. It was great fun.

Amanda: And if you gave a recommendation, we brought like a bunch of –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – ARCs to give away. We had, like –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – journals…

Sarah: Yeah. Well, the swag you got for coming was a notebook to write down all the recommendations –

Amanda: Oh yeah, that’s right!

Sarah: – but it had a cover that was like Smart Bitches recommends, and then the name of the site. I was, once upon a time, I was pretty good at swag.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I was pretty good at it.

Amanda: But, yeah, I miss, like, you know.

Sarah: I miss book people.

Amanda: Meet-, like, meeting the community. I remember the one time someone recognized my voice –

Sarah: Isn’t that wild?

Amanda: – from the podcast?

Sarah: Isn’t that wild?

Amanda: Or, like, after one of the recommends, someone had us sign, had all of us sign their copy of Outlander?

Sarah: Yes! Oh my gosh, I’d forgotten about that!

Amanda: [Laughs] I think it was Outlander!

Sarah: Like, I didn’t write this, but sure!

Amanda: But that’s what I miss, for sure. I, like, some of the events I didn’t really, like, care about or, like, you know, the late night parties that went until like 11:30, 12:00? But –

Sarah: Who are you, me?

Amanda: – I think we talked about the – I know – we’ve talked about some previous podcasts of, like, I’m an extroverted introvert?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So I’ll go out for a couple hours, go to the things I want to see, talk to people, have meetings with publishing people, catch up. That’s one thing I miss too is, like, publicists; that was the only time that I saw them face to face, and I definitely miss seeing all of them, ‘cause they were a lot of fun. But then I’d go back to my room and take a nap at like 2 p.m., and I –

Sarah: Yeah! Oh, absolutely!

Amanda: – I’d rally for dinner and then there we go.

Sarah: We were good! Oh yeah. And there were multiple evenings, especially at RT, there would be evenings where there would be a full ball with dinner and costumes –

Amanda: With a theme!

Sarah: – and a theme and dessert, and Heather Graham’s family would put on a show, and one year in Pittsburgh they hung somebody onstage with, like, trip wires. It was a hanging; it was, it was serious business.

And then RWA was like the end of the summer, and because that was sort of a business conference, except that a lot of the people who were there to do business, I was also friends with? I, I miss that part too. Like, I remember when I, when I resigned R, my, my membership at RWA, I realized, wow, there are people who I would see there who I am probably never going to see again. And that made me so sad!

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, some people we still, like, have Zoom cocktails with, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it’s like levels of friendship –

Amanda: But they’re –

Sarah: – right? Like, I, if, if I saw somebody –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – and I would have a drink with them at RWA, I’m not sure that I’d be like, Hey, do you want to hang out just, you know, just us on Zoom.

Amanda: Yeah. Or like, I’m in your neck of the woods; do you want to, like, get lunch or something?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: They’re like by, you know, serendipity, you’re both there at the same place –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – for the same reason, i.e., books. You’re like, why not hang out?

Sarah: Yeah! And both of those conferences, until like the last few, like, I’d say the last two or three years, there were a lot of books. Like, every publisher would have a book signing at RWA, which I never quite understood, because they would, they would make a point of saying before the conference, RWA is not for readers. BookCon and RT and whatever it was later, Book Lovers Con, whatever, those are for readers –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – this is not for readers. But they would have book signings where you would get to meet a certain publisher’s author, authors, and you would go in and they would sign books and you didn’t have to pay for them. If you got into, like, the Berkley book signing, you could get, like, the latest –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Jaci Burton book or, you know, you could meet Nalini Singh if she was in from New Zealand, so there was still an element of, I think I would call it fandom? There was still –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – a fandom element. It was, like, I think, resting on the idea that future romance authors are almost always romance readers, which makes sense? But I think it was a mixed message to say, This isn’t for readers, but, you know, we’re going to do reader signings.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The thing about those signings is, though, you didn’t pay for the books. So if an author –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – was coming and they had books, they sometimes had books just for their publisher signings, and then for the big literacy signing, or the big book signing at RT, those were books you paid for. And that was, do you remember how big those ballrooms were?

Amanda: Huge. They would have everyone set up alphabetically –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and I remember you would always be by, is it Jaye Wells?

Sarah: Yes, I would be by, sometimes I was by Jaye Wells, sometimes I was by Lauren Willig, and sometimes I was by another author whose name I don’t remember, but I was in the Ws! We had lots of air conditioning.

Amanda: Yeah. I remember one time, like, was it Tamora, Tamora Pierce was at one of them, and people were losing their minds!

Sarah: One of the early RTs I remember was, it was, it was Z Brewer. I met a young girl who was, like, head to toe costume, might have been nine or ten, no more than ten, and they had, she had driven hours with her mother because the only person she wanted to meet was Z Brewer. The little girl couldn’t find the table even though it was B, and I said, Oh, it’s in the front, but it’s all the way to the left; so I bring this girl and her mom over, and she is just about, this little, this girl was levitating, she was so excited to meet Z Brewer. Like, she was above the ground: bzzzzz. She was incredibly, incredibly, like, blown away. That was one of the first years that they had a lot of YA authors, and I saw so many young people, like you said, just absolutely losing their shit to meet authors, and I had not seen that before.

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, I haven’t been to, really, any of the, the current iterations that’s happening? Like, I’ve never been to a Poly Con. Didn’t one just happen, or one is happening this year?

Sarah: Yes, there is a new one. Steamy Lit Con.

Amanda: That’s what it is.

Sarah: Yeah; 18th and 19th of August in Anaheim.

Amanda: Yeah. There’s one in New England that happens in the fall called Fall in Love New England.

Sarah: Yeah, that’s, that’s the New England Romance Writers, right?

Amanda: I think so, but they’ve, they might have, like, divorced themselves. But I never go because it’s like, last I looked, you had to, like, drive to go, and I don’t have access to – [laughs] – a car?

Sarah: Right, yeah.

Amanda: So, like, I’ve never attended. But I know that happens every year and has a pretty good turnout. I know my former book club members usually go, at least a few of them?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And I feel like the ones that are happening, just from like a cursory glance, nowhere near on the level of a, of an RT.

Sarah: And RT, RT was a – [sighs] – was a, was a community that took years and years to build and was based on a magazine?

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s a completely –

Amanda: I always forget that it’s based on a magazine.

Sarah: Yeah. You, you find old issues on eBay; they are –

Amanda: You know –

Sarah: – fun to read. That was the other thing; I would get, like, free issues of RT magazine at the conference, and I would have the best time reading them, because they never gave five stars. It was only four, three, two, and one, but the one-star reviews, especially of, like, Love Inspired titles, were brutal. Like, people think we’re mean. No.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: One star in RT was, that was a devastating experience.

But yeah, I, I have not, I have not wanted to go to a large gathering of people since the pandemic? Like, I was inside in a crowded space, and I was, like, nervous because my face was uncovered, and I, and it was walls but no ceiling, and I was still like, Oh, this is a lot of humans, and there’s walls; I should have a mask on. Like, I’m not really sure that I’m ready to go to a conference? But I, I do miss them, you know? I do miss them.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: I don’t know if we’ll ever see a conference like RT again? And, and it’s sad, because, like, I had so many weird stories from RT. Like one year RT was in New Orleans, and they had a bar crawl! Like, they booked different bars on Bourbon Street, and you went from bar to bar, and each publisher was at a bar! And then you found out early on, like, which publishers had gotten food and which ones had not, so you went to the ones with food first.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But there was a pub crawl on Bourbon Street with, like, Avon in one place and Penguin in another place – this was before the merger, so Random House was down the street – and I’m walking down Bourbon Street, and I pass Charlaine Harris just, just walking over to the bar crawl!

Amanda: I mean, if you’re going to run into her anywhere –

Sarah: That’s where, right? And I’m like, I had to stop on the street and be like, I just walked past Charlaine Harris on Bourbon Street going to a pub crawl about books? What is this?! And I don’t, I don’t see that, I don’t think that’s possible anymore, especially because, if you remember, by the end, RT was a week. Like, ‘cause they had the stuff on Tuesday, they had stuff on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday departure. You were flying in Sunday to Sunday; like, it was a week –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – of stuff. Yeah.

Amanda: So I do miss, like, face time with authors. Like, Maria Vale, for example –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – I remember attending Book Lovers Con in New Orleans – was it the first one? – and I remember Maria and I grabbed coffee –

Sarah: Aw!

Amanda: – at, like, the Starbucks or whatever, and she was telling me about this book idea. God, when was that Book Lovers Con? She was telling me about this book idea that she had, and I thought it sounded so good, but she literal-, it just came out! It was Molly Molloy and the Angel of Death –

Sarah: Oh, that’s –

Amanda: – her latest book.

Sarah: – so cool!

Amanda: And I’m like, I remember you telling me about this idea you had like, what, five years ago?

Sarah: Oh my gosh!

Amanda: Maybe even more? And now, like –

Sarah: That’s amazing!

Amanda: – it’s out in the world? I was like, that’s really cool.

Sarah: And you, when you went to these conferences year to year, you would see trends rise and fall.

Amanda: Oh, for sure.

Sarah: Like, my first RT was paranormal all the way down. Urban fantasy –

Amanda: Right.

Sarah: – so much paranormal, shifters, shifters, vampires, vampires, shifters, vampires, werewolves, urban fantasy belt, leather pants. Like, it was all paranormal. And then it started to shift toward romance, contemporary romance and erotic romance, especially as Ellora’s Cave and Samhain and Lucid and all of the other presses, a lot of, most of which don’t exist anymore, started publishing explicitly erotic romance. So then we saw vampires, werewolves, and sexytimes, like mad sexytimes, and then, of course, arrived Fifty Shades and then that whole BDSM craze. But you got to watch trends; you know, just going by the elevator man titty alone, you could trace the trends year to year. It was –

Amanda: Oh, for sure!

Sarah: – because you would be seeing, this is what a publisher is spending marketing money on. This is where they’re going to, they’re going to buy the window clings; they’re going to put a big poster up on the wall.

Amanda: It feels almost like a fever dream, you know?

Sarah: It really does! Like, if you tried to tell somebody about it they’d be like, I’m sorry, you what now?

Amanda: Yeah! And it feels like a fever dream. It’s like, Oh yeah, I attended a work conference, and then I rode a mechanical bull, and – [laughs]

Sarah: And I went to a dispensary and – yeah.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: Oh yeah. One year, I remember, RWA was, ‘cause it was contractually required to be in New York I think once every four years? One year –

Amanda: That’s the only one I ever attended was, like, a New York one.

Sarah: One year Avon rented out the, I think it was the boathouse in Central Park for their publisher party.

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: It was gorgeous. It was so beautiful, but I ended up in a pedi-, a, a bicycle cab? I ended up in a bicycle cab because there was traffic, ‘cause it was rush hour, and I don’t remember the third person, but it was definitely Kristin Nelson, the agent, and me and one other person were all trying to get there at the same time, and a, and a bicycle cab guy was like, I can get you there in this much time for this much money. We were like, Done! And this guy had, he had calves and quads –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – like you have never seen in your life, but that man got us all the way up to Central Park from the Marriott very quickly.

Amanda: Good for him!

Sarah: And I thought we were going to die ‘cause sometimes he was going against traffic.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I did think our life was in danger because we were really headed directly into –

Amanda: …you want to get there!

Sarah: – Lexington Avenue traffic, but, you know! That’s the kind of thing that happens where it’s not going to happen anywhere else.

Amanda: No. I remember the RWA we attended together; we both had, like, uncomfy shoes, and so we walked down to the Old Navy and got, like, flats.

Sarah: Oh yeah! I still have the hoodie I bought. The zipper broke, and I wear it all the time.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: It’s the, it’s the official hoodie of working! I got it at the Old Navy across from R, RWA!

Amanda: Yeah! I remember it was like, These shoes are uncomfy, and then I went and got better shoes at the gigantic Old Navy! [Laughs]

Sarah: Conveniently located across the street.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: The other thing was how good I got at going to conferences. Like, I never went to breakfast in the conference unless I had a breakfast meeting? Because the, the line would be out the door. And if there was a Starbucks in the hotel, the line would be out the door. But if you had the mobile app you could place an order at a Starbucks like a block away, and by the time you got there –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – your order was ready, and then you could just come on back.

Amanda: Yeah! I think that’s what I did in Atlanta –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – was, like, there was one like a block, a block away.

Sarah: Yeah. I miss it, and it’s weird, because I have such very, very specific, clear memories of going to conferences, but sometimes I cannot remember which one it was? Like, I’ve met people at conferences, and I’m like, I don’t know where I met you, because it was at a hotel, so you and I met somewhere very beige.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s, it was very beige and nondescript in the background. But I remember, like, for example, halfway between the hotel and the conference center at the Rio, which was hell, there was a Starbucks, and so people would sort of land there –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – because then you’d – [laughs] – get a break, and there was a, a reader gathering of something; it might have been a Facebook group gathering. That was where I learned about the Call of Crows series because the second book had come out, and two people were –

Amanda: Yeah, and you would not, like, like, stop talking about that book the entire time we were there. I think, like, you, you immediately started reading it.

Sarah: I read it while I was at the conference –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – and I was like, Does everyone know about this but me? And the people who told me about it were, were like, No, it’s so good. Oh my God, it’s so good. The second one’s even better, oh my God, and I was like, Oh! Okay. Doo-doo-doo, and I started reading it that day.

Amanda: I remember it was the Las Vegas one. One, I remember we were going to have, like, a site dinner, and we were like, Yeah, we can totally go – you were humoring me and were like, We can go to the Guy Fieri restaurant in the hotel, and it was closed –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – for some reason, and then I remember –

Sarah: His picture was everywhere!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: You could, you could follow the hotel, like, follow your way around by, like, following Guy Fieri pictures.

Amanda: And then we went to dinner somewhere offsite at another hotel –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – and I had made the comment of, like, I’ve always wanted to say, “We’ll take one of each from the menu” –

Sarah: From the dessert menu?

Amanda: – please will you let me do that? From the dessert menu?

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: And then we were running late to come back to, like, this event at the hotel –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and I was really bummed ‘cause it was like a, one of the few Kresley Cole events when she was there?

Sarah: Ohhh, yeah!

Amanda: So we got there, and they’re kind of taking things apart like it’s done –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and I remember sitting with Kristin Dwyer, and Kresley Cole and her agent, or no, her editor –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – is it Lauren? Lore, something like that? – sit down next to us –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – and I’m, like, freaking out, and I’m like, I wanted her to sign something, and I had nothing to sign, so I think we just grabbed one of the, like, random poker chips that they had as décor on the tables?

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: And I literally have a poker chip that says KC that she signed in Sharpie on it –

Sarah: That’s so cool.

Amanda: – ‘cause that’s the only thing I could find.

Sarah: Is that the author that you remember meeting and just being like, Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God?

Amanda: Kind of?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Christina Lauren’s another one, when they found my house keys and held them for ransom on Twitter.

Sarah: I remember that, because you had a Florida keychain; they were like, Oh, this has to be Amanda’s; it says Florida on it.

Amanda: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s Florida State Seminoles; I have an FSU keychain. And I had just gone to their table, and it probably fell out of my bag!

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: And then they held it –

Sarah: And I think they posted on Twitter or Instagram, Amanda, we have your keys!

Amanda: Please meet us by the blah-blah-blah.

Sarah: I don’t know which signing it was?

Amanda: But that was another one –

Sarah: The last signing I ever did – I don’t remember what conference it was, but – you know what, it might have been Book Lovers Con; it might have been one of the first Book Lovers Con – they were at an end table around the room, and I was, of course, in the Ws, so I’m in, like, my own, like, got my own row, and it was kind of empty? Like, there wasn’t a lot of foot traffic? And so Lauren was firing rubber bands at me across the aisle, and I ended up getting a package a couple months later, and it was a rubber band ball with a little note that says, I’m ready for a rematch? I still have it; I have the ball and I have the note taped to my closet door.

Amanda: They’re always a fun time whenever we can, we can meet up, for sure.

Sarah: There was a time when if I saw Nora Roberts and her crew in the bar, she would be like, Sarah! Get over here! ‘Cause, you know, she’s got that –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – ruh-ruh-ruh voice. And I was like, oh, you know, okay, so I’m like cool, but inside my inner thirteen-year-old is like, Holy shit! Holy shit! Holy shit! Like, I would get in the elevator, I’d be like, Okay. Well, you know, that’s somebody whose books I’ve read. There’s always a part of me that’s just like, Holy crap! Talking to, you know, talking to Kresley Cole! Talking to Charlaine Harris! I’m talking to Nora Roberts! Oh my God! I miss that.

Amanda: I do too.

Sarah: I think my ideal romance conference would probably be a lot of readers and authors who also want to come and talk to, talk about being readers. Like some, for example, some of my favorite podcast episodes are when I have an author on and then we start talking about what they’re reading and what they love to read. Like, the whole episode I did, last week I think, with KJ Charles, which was all about her comfort reading the Blessings series –

Amanda: Beverly Jenkins, yeah.

Sarah: – and Beverly Jenkins, and we start to break down what works as a comfort read for us, ‘cause that’s a topic she’s been talking about online for a while within the past few months – ‘cause, you know, it’s always needed – and I remember thinking it’s really fun to talk to authors about what they’re reading, and it’s not always easy for authors to do that, ‘cause sometimes they can’t necessarily talk about what they’re reading; either it’s not published yet or they’re blurbing something and they’re not sure they’re going to blurb it or whatever, but I, I think the ideal conference for me would be a lot of readers and a lot of food and a bar.

Amanda: I feel like you and I probably prefer the same events, so like a cozier sort of – cozy instead of party, right. Like –

Sarah: Yes. Cozy instead of party, for sure. But a lot of games. Like, I would love to do –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – I, I, I still think about putting together a romance bar trivia night? I think that would be so fun. The thing I see more authors doing now, the thing that seems to be surviving in terms of book gatherings, is book festivals. That’s the thing I see the most in terms of author panels and reader gatherings is at book festivals. And if you’ve got a book festival in a nice, like, in a nice climate, that can be really fun!

Amanda: Yeah. I know Boston Book Fest started doing more romance programming. I helped with last year’s, so hopefully there’ll be more this year, but I know, like, LA Festival of Books has more romance. Like, I know –

Sarah: Brooklyn Book Festival. Tucson!

Amanda: – Jess Pryde of Book Riot I know does some moderating?

Sarah: Yeah, she’s in Tucson, so I think she’s majorly involved in the Tucson book festival.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So it’s nice to see some of that, like, still trying to be kept alive.

Sarah: And the Baltimore Book Festival almost always has a sizable romance tent, and I’ve been to it a couple of times. One time I went and I happened to mention on Twitter, Oh, I’m going over to Baltimore, and somebody said, I read your tweet and I put on pants and came over, and I was like, You put on pants?! To – what?! No! Why would you put on – no! She’s like, No, I had to, I had to come and thank you for the website! I had to come and meet you! Put on pants for me!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m honored! So yeah, that’s what I want: I want to do, do an event where if you put on pants they’re very soft pants.

Amanda: Yeah! Sweatpants?

Sarah: Sweatpants, yoga pants –

Amanda: A jogger?

Sarah: Yeah! You know, something with deep pockets for your phone and a, and a battery, ‘cause you’re going to, you know, social media a lot.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: So what are you reading? Any books you want to mention?

Amanda: So my new emotional support book –

Sarah: That you carry on the bus to and from! [Laughs]

Amanda: – that I carry around with me, I saw a tweet about this, and I can’t remember who tweeted it or even what it said at this point.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: But it’s a sci-fi novel with, it sounds like a romance plot or subplot, I don’t know, ‘cause like I said, I just carry it around with me; I don’t actually read it. It’s called The Blighted Stars by Megan E. O’Keefe.

Sarah: Oooh!

Amanda: But yeah, I think Brian and I got breakfast in Brookline, which is not our neck of the woods, and then we were going to check out this new store called Teehee Boston, which is like a kawaii Hello Kitty store. [Laughs] But if you’re in New England, if you’re in the Boston area, Brookline has an amazing bookstore called the Brookline Booksmith.

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: They’ve recently –

Sarah: That’s a good name!

Amanda: I know. They recently, they have a used bookstore section downstairs, books up top, and they’ve expanded to have more of like a gift shop stuff? Their kitchen section is amazing? But I was like, While we’re in the area, why don’t I see if they have this on their shelf? And they did! So I bought it. But a spy is stranded on a dead planet with her mortal enemy.

Sarah: Oh, that’s all of your thing!

Amanda: Yeah, ticks a lot of boxes.

Sarah: Tick. Tick, tick, tick, tick – yep.

Amanda: [Laughs] So that is my new –

Sarah: That’s an Amanda-bait book.

Amanda: – my new emotional support book that I’ve been carrying with me everywhere. I take it out of my bag and bring it up to the nightstand, and then there it sits, and then I bring it with me and I put it in my bag when I go to work, and –

Sarah: [Laughs] It’s my emotional support book.

Amanda: – I literally just – [laughs] – put it in one place to –

Sarah: Is this like the Cube in Portal?

Amanda: Yep! Just take it with me in case I might need it! But –

Sarah: Right, you might need it. Of course. That makes sense. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, or will I just look at Instagram the entire commute on my way to work?

Sarah: Which is also an option.

Amanda: [Laughs] But that is my new emotional support book.

Sarah: I read A Most Agreeable Murder by Julia Seales, and I have –

Amanda: Yeah, we –

Sarah: – a review in progress? You, this was part of –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – Whatcha Reading?

Amanda: Whatcha – I cut your thoughts down –

Sarah: Yeah, that’s –

Amanda: – in the Whatcha Reading –

Sarah: – always fine.

Amanda: – just to save some stuff for the review.

Sarah: Always fine; I figured you would. This book is unhinged.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This book is so silly. Like, I would turn the page and be like, Am I high, or is the book making me feel like I’ve lost connection with –

Amanda: I think the quote you used was like, I feel like an eight-year-old trying to tell their parents the, the dream they had last night.

Sarah: Yes! That is exactly how you feel when trying to describe this book: And then, and then, and THEN, and – and nothing is connected, everything is bonkers, but at the same time I can tell that it was written by somebody who’s very familiar with Jane Austen and the Brontës and romance and mysteries and –

Amanda: Seems like a “Yes, and…” sort of book.

Sarah: It is very much a “Yes, and…” sort of book.

Amanda: What if we put this in? Yes, and –

Sarah: And – yes! Let’s have a side character whose personality is, she’s jealous and beautiful, but part of her role in the community is to announce the Color of the Year. No discussion; just, that’s just dropped in there, and then later on you find out what the Color of the Year is, and I’m like, This is absolutely bonkers!

Amanda: Does she, like, is it like pretty ceremonious, like Willy Wonka, like, walking out?

Sarah: There’s a ball! And – yeah, seriously. I’m going to try to review this book, and people are going to be like, Are you, are you okay? Are you, are you all right? I was reading it while a sizable portion of my brain was like, What, what is happening right now? Does anyone else know what’s happening? ‘Cause we don’t know what’s happening!

Amanda: I mean, that’s how I feel about the Gideon the Nin-, the Locked Tomb series.

Sarah: Yes! That reminded me a lot of my interview with you and AJ, because AJ was like, Magic? How it works? Who cares?! [Laughs]

Amanda: It’s like, I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m happy to be here. Like –

Sarah: Yes! That is exactly –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And it’s a very specific flavor of bonkers, right? Like, it’s not just, you know, Scottish lass who knows how to fence and cures diseases and births, you know, going to help with veterinary births or whatever. It’s not like this incredibly super-perfection bonkers – oh, and then there’s a highwayman, and we’re going to rob a bank or whatever.

Amanda: Of course.

Sarah: This is just a handful of characters, completely silly.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Amanda for hanging out with me. I will link to all of the past episodes we talked about, including the one where we were baked out of our gourds, and all of the other things we mentioned, including the Poly Con, the Brookline Booksmith, and I found a link to some older episodes of the RT magazine on eBay, if you would like to take a look at what that was. They were, they had a lot; they had a lot in them. They were, that was a girthy magazine. [Laughs] Girthy!

I always end with a bad joke, and I would never leave you hanging. This joke is from our Patreon Discord, and it is from Bransler. Are you ready? All right.

What’s the opposite of formaldehyde?

Give up? What’s the opposite of formaldehyde?

Casualdejekyll.

[Laughs] That might be one of the jokes that you might need to see in order to fully appreciate, but casualdejekyll is cracking me up. Thank you, Bransler!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week!

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of cool music]