466. Recipes, Seasonal Reading, and Adventure Romance with Amanda and Sarah

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 466 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. Amanda and I are back for what I am calling part three of AMA with Amanda and Sarah. We are going to chat about our favorite recipes, cooking blogs, cookbooks, seasonal rereading, contemporary cozy mysteries, trends, and adventure romance recommendations. All of these questions are brought to us by our Patreon community. Hello and thank you to Bransler, Cheri, Norette, Manda, and Laura B. for these questions.

If you would like to join our Patreon community and participate in our next Ask Us Anything, please have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges of one dollar a month help keep the show transcribed, accessible, and going every week. Thank you again to our Patreon community. You are all awesome!

This podcast is also brought to you by Ritual, a vegan-friendly multivitamin delivered to your door that’s formulated with high-quality nutrients in bioavailable forms that your body can actually use! I like knowing what’s in my vitamins, and I like knowing what is not in my vitamins. Ritual does not contain sugars, GMOs, major allergens, synthetic fillers, or artificial colorants. I also like knowing the supply chain of each ingredient, which is not something I’d thought much about, and the supply chain is printed on the packaging. There’s also information about how some ingredients were developed to be vegan-friendly. I like that it doesn’t make me nauseated, and as soon as I finish a bottle, hello! A new one has arrived on the porch. I can start, snooze, or cancel my subscription at any time. Now available for women, men, and teens, Ritual multivitamins are scientifically developed to help support different life stages. Get key nutrients without the BS. Ritual is offering my listeners ten percent off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com/SARAH to start your Ritual today.

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We will, of course, link to all of the books and recipes and TV shows and videos that we mention in this episode in the show notes. But let’s get on with this episode. Me and Amanda have a lot to talk about. On with the podcast.

[intro music changes to Duck Tales theme music]

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: ‘Cause, you know, having that stuck in your head after one episode was enough, but now there’s more.

Amanda: I woke up with Dolly Parton’s “9 to 5” stuck in my head.

Sarah: Ooh, that’s one! I woke up with “Fergalicious”?

Amanda: Interesting.

Sarah: Which I have not heard in many – it’s not even like it was on the satellite radio when I was in the car for two seconds.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It, I haven’t heard that song in forever, but I had “Fergalicious” stuck in my head; it was very strange.

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t know why “9 to 5” was stuck in my head. Also, wonderful movie; love it to death; also love Dolly Parton. But nothing I had done previously was related –

Sarah: It’s not like you heard it, right?

Amanda: Yeah – it was related to anything.

Sarah: Do you ever catch your brain thinking about something and you’re just like, okay, why are we thinking about this?

Amanda: Oh, all the time!

Sarah: Like, what, what, what is the synaptic connection that led us here, brain? Could you just trace that back for me? ‘Cause why are we thinking about this? I’m so confused!

Amanda: I mean, I know it’s silly, but I was, I was like, my brain has a mind of its own! But really it does, right?

Sarah: No, it really does! I mean, if you can –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – if you are Olympic champion over-thinkers, your brain is ready to do its own thing at any moment.

Amanda: Oh yeah. Oh yeah!

Sarah: Oh yeah. I’m way good at it. Well, that’s –

Amanda: There’s no choice.

Sarah: No; brain’s going to engage.

Amanda: Brain’s going to brain.

Sarah: Yep. And sometimes you get weird, weird songs stuck in your head. And the song that’s in your head when you wake up can be very bizarre. Like, was I dreaming about the song? What in the world?

Amanda: I don’t know! And it’s also – I think we’ve talked about this too – the capacity of the brain –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – to remember songs from like twenty years ago –

Sarah: Holy crap! We’ve done multiple episodes about how well –

Amanda: – but yet –

Sarah: – we remember some random shit.

Amanda: – and routinely for-, like, I routinely go to the grocery store and forget the one thing that I was supposed to get?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And bought a bunch of other shit, and then I get home, and I’m like –

Sarah: Damn it!

Amanda: – fuck! I went out to get flour, and I didn’t get flour.

Sarah: But here I’ve got a forty-eight-ounce jar of mayonnaise, so that’s good!

Amanda: And I can remember the song that was playing in my grandmother’s car on the way to elementary school –

Sarah: No!

Amanda: – and I remember everyone thought I was a weirdo because my grandmother would listen to oldies, so as an elementary school student I never listened to, like, a lot of pop music. I remember, like, like, “Crocodile Rock” by Elton John.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But, like, everyone was, like, listening to whatever was popular in like 1996.

Sarah: Oh my gosh!

Amanda: Like, I can remember that!

Sarah: Do you want to know the per-, the first pop song that I can remember being aware of? Like, the first popular song that wasn’t, like, my parents listening to the oldies or whatever?

Amanda: “Mambo No. 5.”

Sarah: No, I’m too old for that.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: No, unfortunately. And it wasn’t even Mambo No. 1. [Laughs] Adam once had a trivia question, was name all of the women in “Mambo No. 5,” and between him and the other people on the team they got it, and I was really proud and also the –

Amanda: Monica –

Sarah: [Laughs] Sandra.

Amanda: Sandra.

Sarah: Rita.

Amanda: Rita –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – all I need. A little bit of Tina?

Sarah: Tina, Jessica.

Amanda: Jessica.

Sarah: Yep. [Laughs] See, there’s your book series right there: you have to write one book –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – for every woman in “Mambo No. 5.” [Laughs]

Amanda: But, like, don’t, don’t, like, mention it? Just –

Sarah: Just do it, yeah!

Amanda: – see if anybody catches on that the five books in the series are the “Mambo No. 5” women.

Sarah: Yeah, we’ll, we’ll see if anyone notices. [Laughs]

No, the first song that I remember being aware of as popular was the original “Africa” by Toto, which is 1982, so I was –

Amanda: That is –

Sarah: – seven.

Amanda: – Eric’s favorite song.

Sarah: Oh good.

Amanda: Our second date –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – we were at a bar –

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: – with two of his friends –

Sarah: As you do.

Amanda: – and me and Eric, and Eric goes to the bathroom, leaving me with his two friends, and we’re talking, and “Africa” –

Sarah: I mean, you got to go, you got to go, right?

Amanda: – “Africa” comes on, and his friend was like, oh my God, where’s Eric? This is his favorite song.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And literally like a second later, Eric is running out of the bathroom as if he had to finish what he was doing real fast, because “Africa” was on. And he was like, this is my favorite song!

Sarah: Well, you, you can experience it in the bathroom! It, it’s still your favorite song if you’re peeing!

Amanda: Yeah, so – [laughs] – that’s what I think of! “Africa” is a very good song. The Weezer cover I think is garbage, so.

Sarah: All right, so there’s Angela, Pamela, Sandra, Rita –

Amanda: Sandra and Rita.

Sarah: – Monica, Erica, Rita again, Tina, Sandra again, Mary –

Amanda: Rita, Rita and Sandra –

Sarah: – and Jessica.

Amanda: – really must have made an impression.

Sarah: They, they really did. They don’t listen to Toto in the bathroom.

Amanda: Also, Lou Bega’s German!

Sarah: They come –

Amanda: He’s a German musical artist.

Sarah: Well, bless him! That’s awesome!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: But that, how ma-, how many is that? That’s like a nine-book series? You could get a serious –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – a serious backlist going, just by writing a story for each of the “Mambo No. 5” ladies.

Amanda: Yeah. There’s a series out there.

Sarah: You’re welcome to this idea, everyone. You’re more than welcome to it.

Amanda: Yeah, we don’t need credit or anything –

Sarah: No, just go.

Amanda: – but if you, if you do make it, we want to know.

Sarah: Yeah, oh, please! Please let us know the Mambo No. 5 series, and what you decide to call it other than the Mambo No. 5 series.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Maybe it’d be like Mambo No. 4!

Amanda: Well, there’s nine of them, so shouldn’t it be like Mambo No. 9?

Sarah: Well, yeah!

Amanda: What if they’re all, like, competitive ballroom dancers?

Sarah: Ooh, snap! I mean, that could be really cutthroat! But then they still need more than five mambos if they’re competitive ballroom dancing.

Amanda: Well, they can do other, they could do, like, the salsa; they could just –

Sarah: Cha-cha.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Foxtrot.

Amanda: All sorts of – yeah!

Sarah: Bus Stop.

Amanda: There you go.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: Look, the series has written itself, people. You just need to –

Sarah: We’re, we’re here for you.

Amanda: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Dancing with Lou Bega. Yep.

Amanda: I don’t even know how we got on this topic.

Sarah: I don’t even know.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: No idea.

So Laura B. asks:

What is your favorite recipe blog or cookbook lately?

This is such a good question? I love this question.

Amanda: Yeah, Sarah could probably talk about this for like a good forty minutes on her own.

Sarah: Yes, ‘cause not only do I, I, I meal plan and menu plan, but I like trying new recipes ‘cause I also get bored of things easily, so to make it, to –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – for a recipe to make it onto the “I’m going to make this a lot,” it has to be really, really good. But it’s also like a basic, so every other Tuesday we’ll do burgers, but I can do a lot of different things with burgers and fries. So for me –

Amanda: Like put mayonnaise on them.

Sarah: Yes, exactly! And the fries too. We have tried every single kind of frozen french fry in the Quarantimes.

Amanda: What is your favorite kind of fry? You got a steak fry, you got a waffle fry –

Sarah: Oh, okay! So I like sweet potato fries, but I’m more into –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – regular potato fries. I like a big, fat crinkle cut with a good coating, because there’s a crispy and a, a pillowy inside, and there’s more room –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – for topping, and the topping will just sort of hold onto it, and if you’re going to make fries as a base of something else, like poutine, you want the –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – waffle fries to hold in the ingredients –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – sort of like spiral pasta holding in the sauce.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But the best fries that we have found, and I will verify this with, with, with Adam if he’s not –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – if he’s not on a call – what are the frozen fries we like? I want to say it’s –

Amanda: I love a curly, curly seasoned fry. That’s my idea –

Sarah: Oh yeah! But they have to be well cooked? They can’t just be a gooey –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, they have to –

Amanda: They can’t be soggy.

Sarah: They have to sort of –

Amanda: They’ve got to have some –

Sarah: – like – nobody can see me moving my arms – but they have to sort of been able to dance in the oil and spread out and get crispy –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – all the way around. Ore-Ida Extra Crispy Fast Food Fries. They are not –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – ridged or waffled or, you know, they’re not ribbed for your –

Amanda: They’re regular, like a McDonald’s fry.

Sarah: No, they’re just straight, but they have a really good coating that when you bake them in the oven they get good and crispy. And they can actually –

Amanda: That’s, I like a crispy fry! Like, I love –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – like, if you go to fast food restaurants, I like the little, tiny, crispy bits that always wind up at the bottom of, like, the fry pack.

Sarah: I went to college with a girl – I went to a women’s college, so it was all people identifying –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – as women. I went to college with a girl who had a whole life philosophy about the fries at the bottom of the bag: that you think you’re done, and if you go looking, there’s always one more good thing. There’s always one fry in the bottom of the bag. There’s always a french fry in the bottom of the paper bag, and if my friend Claudia from college is listening to this, she is now screaming the name of this person, ‘cause we heard this theory a lot: that there’s always something to look forward to; there’s always something more. When you think you’ve finished something? There’s always one more fry in the bottom of the bag. And it’s the best fry, ‘cause it’s got all the salt on it.

Amanda: It is the best fry!

Sarah: It’s totally the best fry. I, I am corrected: the Extra Crispy Ore-Ida Crinkles are also good. But the kids don’t like crinkle fries –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – so we don’t get those as much.

Amanda: Okay!

Sarah: So I, if you’re going for frozen fries, Ore-Ida’s are, is our brand of choice.

But because I menu plan, I am always looking for new recipes, so I subscribe to the America’s Test Kitchen/Cook’s Country/Cook’s Illustrated website collection. I want to say it was like thirty bucks for the year; it wasn’t horrible? But the –

Amanda: I feel like they often have, like, deals.

Sarah: Yeah, they’ll, they’ll have a deal, and there’s always some kind of coupon or deal somewhere. But the thing I like about it right now is that they have a rotation of their published cookbooks that they will mix into the available online recipes so you can search the recipes of a specific cookbook and start trying them out. I also borrow a lot of cookbooks from the library to try them out, because nothing is more annoying than thinking, oh, I’m going to get this cookbook! And there’s like one thing you make in it.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s annoying. So the Test Kitchen/Cook’s Country/Cook’s Illustrated website is pretty great.

And I also did a post with Shana about Nigellissima, which will be out by the time this episode comes out, it’ll be out.

Amanda: Yeah, I think, yeah, it comes out –

Sarah: It comes out this week.

Amanda: – the week that we’re recording this.

Sarah: Yes, comes out this week. So Nigellissima is Nigella Lawson –

Amanda: Lawson.

Sarah: – turned all the way up to eleven and a half.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This show is porn. It is puh-or-nuh. It is porn with three syllables. The cookbook was not as good as the show, but the show was amazing. Like, Shana and I just exclaimed at each other about it. And there’s only seven episodes, so you have to portion them out carefully?

Amanda: You have to savor them.

Sarah: You have to savor them, but trust me, they’re worth savoring. The music is porn music. It is incredible. There is one part where she keeps all of her liquorice in a black tackle box and then goes into her suggestively lit pantry in black satin pajamas and pulls out this, like, BDSM box and, and, and then shows off all –

Amanda: Box like that of liquorice!

Sarah: Yes, it is full of liquorice. It is incredible. I love it. So Nigellissima on BritBox. BritBox is a subscription. It’s, I want to say seven bucks a month? I think there’s a month free trial, and there’s, if you like British murder shows there’s, like, all of them. All of them are there. The cookbook –

Amanda: I also think you’ve done a post on BritBox.

Sarah: I have done a post on BritBox, yes.

Amanda: Right, yeah.

Sarah: Jane and I both are BritBox people. The cookbook for Nigellissima I borrowed from the library. It was not as good as the show, but the show came up with some great recipes that we’ve already tried.

So those are my suggestions right now. What about you?

Amanda: Okay. So mostly I search online for things that, like, you know, like, I have this right now; what can I do with this?

Sarah: Oh, see, yeah, I, I understand completely.

Amanda: Yeah. So my all-time favorite is Smitten Kitchen, because, like, their directory that they have of recipes is so helpful. You can search by, like, what sort of meal you’re looking for, breakfast, whatever.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: If you want something more, like, veggie-focused or what – like, it’s so helpful, and there are several recipes that I make pretty often, one of them being crispy tortellini with prosciutto and peas.

Sarah: Oh, hello!

Amanda: So it’s frozen, frozen peas; frozen tortellini; prosciutto; I think lemon and mascarpone? That’s it.

Sarah: Oh wow.

Amanda: And it’s just salty and creamy and lots of good textures, and it’s –

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: – that is one of my favorites. It’s super easy to make. I usually make it a couple times a month?

Sarah: Yum!

Amanda: I love that.

Budget Bites is also a pretty good website that I use, especially if you’re a cook who, one, is conscious about, like, how much you’re spending –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – on a recipe? Like, I always hate recipes that, like, require this one niche ingredient? Like –

Sarah: Oh yeah, the minute a recipe says halibut, I’m like, why do you think I’m going to spend my mortgage payment on a fish?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, what are you doing?

Amanda: And it’s, it’s good with, like, portions too, ‘cause normally I’m either cooking for one person or two people, so I don’t need a meal that’s like –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: – for five. And also, something I think I discovered this year, and I think I mentioned it on a previous podcast episode, but it’s called The Chunky Chef?

Sarah: Ohhh! You sent me a recipe from this, and I was like, oh, well, if it’s from The Chunky Chef –

Amanda: I can’t –

Sarah: – I, I trust it.

Amanda: – yeah, I can’t remember what recipe it was. But they have a really good search function as well, so you can search by ingredients, what sort of course, what sort of, like, cuisine you’re looking for. If you want to use any of your gadgets, like if you want something for the Instant Pot –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – if you want something for your slow cooker.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: So super great, like, searchable website, depending on, like, what you’re looking for, or, like –

Sarah: I’m getting hungry!

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: Now I’m hungry.

Amanda: Love The Chunky Chef. So that’s typically, like, the three that I use that have very good search functions. Because, like, I started doing a CSA this year?

Sarah: Oh yeah! You’ve made some –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – pornographic meals with your –

Amanda: And sometimes they, like, send me things and I’m like, I don’t know what the hell am I going to do with this? And so yesterday – I can’t remember if it was The Chunky Chef or not, but I got a lot of squash, and so I made these, like, parmesan squash chips in the oven. So just, like, little, crispy squash bites with, like, melty parmesan on top of them, and they were delicious!

Sarah: Oooh!

Amanda: And it’s like three ingredients, or, like, salt and pepper, squash, cheese.

So those are my, my three suggestions.

Sarah: I make the Smitten Kitchen, I call it grown-up Spaghetti-Os, but it is –

Amanda: Yes! I’ve made it, after you recommended it.

Sarah: It’s so good. It is not Cacio e Pepe; it is Pasta e Ceci. Good job, brain! Excellent work!

Amanda: Also –

Sarah: I’m very proud of you, brain.

Amanda: – the Chunky, the Chunky Chef recipe I made was the mac, the baked mac and cheese –

Sarah: Ohhh, yeah, that’s the one you sent to me. Mm, very good.

One other cookbook that I do love a lot is One-Pan Wonders from America’s Test Kitchen. I make about four or five different recipes from that on, pretty, pretty frequently, and then the Multicooker Perfection cookbook is great for things like risotto or Instant Pot mac and cheese. My younger child does not like mac and cheese. He doesn’t like melty cheese; he doesn’t like thick foods generally. He loves this macaroni and cheese. It is so good. The secret is that when you cook the pasta and the water in the Instant Pot, you add powdered mustard, and it adds such good flavor to the pasta. It’s incredibly good. I could eat it right now!

Amanda: I will say –

Sarah: I could eat it right this second. It’s eleven in the morning.

Amanda: – if, if, if people are unsure about cookbooks, I feel like America’s Test Kitchen, their cookbooks are pretty solid.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: One of my favorite cookbooks is their Complete Vegetarian Cookbook –

Sarah: Oh, that’s a –

Amanda: – and I am not a vegetarian.

Sarah: – good one!

Amanda: But they have this recipe that’s, like, Eggplant Involtini? You roll it up, you take like a little cheese bomb, essentially, and roll –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – roll the, like, eggplant around this little cheese bomb, and you, like, bake it, and it’s just so good. But yeah, so I –

Sarah: I’m so hungry. [Laughs]

Amanda: You know, America’s Test Kitchen knocks it out of the park.

Sarah: We are also making, this week, Fawaffles, which is when you make falafel batter and you cook it in the waffle iron?

Amanda: Oooh!

Sarah: It is so good. The secret to falafel is actually not cooking your chickpeas: you soak dried chickpeas, and then you just chop ‘em – you soak ‘em overnight and then you chop them up in the food processor with, you know, garlic and parsley and everything else? But when you cook them in the waffle iron, they get nice and flat and crispy and chewy on the inside, and all of the little divots hold the tahini and the vegetables, and it’s so good.

Amanda: That sounds delicious, but I usually don’t have the fore-, foresight? Like, if I, like, I want to make something now, and then I read the recipe that’s like, this needs to rest in a thing for eight hours, I’m like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – fuck! I’m not eating that then.

Sarah: And you’re not, and you’re a mood eater, so you’re like, I want falafel now! Not tomorrow night!

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t have that sort of advanced planning for food.

Sarah: That’s one of the things I love about the pasta and chickpeas recipe? If I have the pasta and the chickpeas and some tomato paste, I can make this recipe, and, and I can, I can fudge everything else.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah!

Sarah: And it’s very easy to have pasta and cans of chickpeas and tomato paste in the house. Like –

Amanda: Also –

Sarah: – they last forever.

Amanda: – I think Smitten Kitchen has that, like, pasta sauce recipe where it’s just like canned tomatoes and an onion?

Sarah: Oh, and butter!

Amanda: And you let it, like, simmer?

Sarah: I made that on vacation. That recipe is –

Amanda: So easy.

Sarah: – so easy. I was in a condo in Utah in, oh, this was January 2020! This was probably one of the last things we did. This was when we first started hearing about COVID was, was Christmas 2019, early 2020. You get a can of Italian tomatoes, some butter, and half an onion.

Amanda: So, yeah, that’s all it is. It’s so easy.

Sarah: And I forgot to buy the onion, and the onion was, like, way down the mountain, and I was already pretty low on oxygen, but I went to the restaurant in the snowboarding, in the ski resort, and I went into the, to the buffet, and I’m like, listen, I forgot to buy an onion. Can I buy an onion from you? And they were like, you want a, like, the whole onion? And I was like, yeah! I just, I need an onion.

Amanda: One onion.

Sarah: I don’t want to go all the way down the mountain to the grocery store, I, and just for one onion. I’m feeling really dumb, but I will buy an onion from you. And the head chef’s like, don’t worry; I got you. Disappears and comes back with an onion. Because it’s a food service place –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – this onion is as big as my head. It was mass-, it was the biggest onion. It was like two-hander. I, it was – and then I had to ride my snowboard while holding it!

[Laughter]

Sarah: This big-ass onion! Bigger than both of my breasts put together, and I’m, like, just holding this onion and snowboarding down the mountain. So I get on the lift with the onion at that point. The lift operators, who are usually a little baked, were like, hey! Nice onion. Like, well, thank you. And they were like, no, the mountain –

Amanda: I feel like someone, someone needs to make this into a portrait.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Together: Sarah snowboarding –

Amanda: – with an onion.

Sarah: – with this gigant-, it was so huge! It was a massive onion. But when you mix the, just put the cut onion in the tomatoes and the butter and let it simmer –

Amanda: Yep!

Sarah: – and it is so good.

Amanda: So delicious.

Sarah: [Laughs] I don’t recommend snowboarding with a, like a two-pound onion.

Amanda: With an onion. [Laughs]

Sarah: That was so, it was so big! And getting off the lift on a snowboard is not exactly easy? I’m getting better and better, but it’s still like, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit! I can’t drop the onion! [Laughs]

Amanda: And now you’ve got an onion to –

Sarah: And now I have an onion to worry about, yeah. Mm-hmm! Right. [Laughs]

So those are our recipe suggestions.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: We have, we have many. I do like cooking.

[music]

Sarah: We will be right back with more, but first, this podcast is brought to you in part by Rothy’s. It is 2021, and no one has time for uncomfortable shoes – definitely not me – and that is where Rothy’s comes in. Rothy’s has surveyed thousands of their customers, and the number one word used to describe their shoes is comfy. However, if they asked me I would say washable. Rothy’s are stylish and comfortable, and they are washable; it is my favorite thing about them. They are lightweight, they are easy to travel with, and if they get dirty I chuck ‘em in the washing machine and they come out looking perfect. I wear them, I look dressed up, and even if it’s hot and my hands and my feet get puffy, I’m still comfortable. You can start the summer off on the right foot – ha-ha! – with bestsellers like their flats, loafers, and sneakers. They’ve got spacious, washable handbags, perfect for summer getaways, and they just launched a men’s line with the same comfort and attention to detail, created with nearly zero waste. I love something that is high in comfort and style and extremely low-maintenance to take care of, and this would be why I own about six pair of Rothy’s. I also have a coupon, and this is very exciting, ‘cause this usually doesn’t happen. To help you welcome summer in style, Rothy’s is doing something special. That’s right, they gave us the chance to share this super rare opportunity with our listeners for a limited time: through August 1st, 2021, you can get twenty dollars off your first purchase of one hundred dollars or more at rothys.com/SARAH. That’s Rothy’s, R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com slash SARAH. Trust us, you do not want to miss this. Head to rothys.com/SARAH to find your new favorites today.

And now, back to my conversation with Amanda and pretty much everything.

[music]

Sarah: Manda says:

This might have been covered before, but do you ever find yourselves reading seasonally, certain types of books at certain times of the year? I’m looking forward to this episode. Your chats are always my favorite.

Thank you!

Amanda: Yeah, thank you!

Sarah: You don’t really do this.

Amanda: No! Not really. I mean, I don’t read seasonally. There will be some times that, like, I’m in the mood to reread a certain book, but that is –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – few and far between, and it’s only, like, a couple books. One of which is It Happened One Autumn by Lisa Kleypas, my favorite of the Wallflowers series. I will read that one every so often.

And then I start, I found this book in high school; it’s called Battle Royale by Koushun Takami. It is like The Hunger Games pre Hunger Games.

Sarah: Is this the book that The Hunger Games was based on, allegedly?

Amanda: I think so. Post-apocalyptic, sort of. Every year as sort of, like, penance for an uprising, a ninth-grade class is randomly selected, and they get sent to, like, a, this isolated area and essentially have to fight to the death.

Sarah: That sounds like The Hunger Games! Wow!

Amanda: And the winner gets, like, this, like, lifetime pension or whatever, but, like –

Sarah: Are they divided into four houses by a magic hat?

Amanda: [Laughs] No, but they each get, like, a random –

Sarah: Is there a closet with a lion in it? [Laughs]

Amanda: No. No, they each get, like, a random bag of, like, water, rations, a map, and, like, a random weapon? Like, some poor sap gets, like, a fork.

Sarah: I got a mascara wand! I – actually, no –

Amanda: And –

Sarah: – I have an onion; that’s my weapon.

Amanda: I have an onion!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And then, like, on the map is, like, a grid –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and so ev-, I think like every hour or whatever there’s an announcer, and he’s like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – you know, H4 is off-limits, and if you go into H4 your head will explode, ‘cause everyone has, like, exploding collars. It’s very graphic, wild.

Sarah: Is this a book or a manga?

Amanda: A book.

Sarah: Oh wow.

Amanda: But I think they made into a manga and a terrible movie. Don’t watch the movie.

Sarah: What, The Hunger Games?

Amanda: No.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I’m sorry.

Amanda: I mean, yeah, that also counts.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But I would read this every summer. I lent it to friends. I lent, like, my mother read it.

Sarah: Wow!

Amanda: My copy was, like, so beat up. I think I lost it somewhere, but, like, it was probably my most, like, traveled book in terms of, like, lending it to people.

Sarah: Would you reread it now?

Amanda: I would reread it now. I don’t have my copy anymore, so – but I think those are the only two books that I –

Sarah: What if there was a place where you could acquire books? Like a place –

Amanda: Whaat?!

Sarah: – where you acquire books and you get an employee discount?

Amanda: Okay, so the thing is, is I’m very picky, and that the edition I had – so they, they have a new cover now, but the edition I had –

Sarah: Oh, always.

Amanda: – had a different cover. So the cover that I had was a red cover, and there’s, there are two students, like a silhouette of two students stand-, sit-, like, on the front of the cover, and the negative space in between the students made up a rifle.

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: So that is a, I think, like, that’s a book that I have read the most in terms of rereading. I get that reading is comforting –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – but some of that enjoyment is a little taken away when I already know what’s going to happen.

Sarah: Ah.

Amanda: There’s not that first-time experience.

Sarah: I get it! I get it.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t necessarily do seasonal reading, except maybe in the fall?

Amanda: Mm-hmm. Oh, and we had done – I went and looked – three fall reading posts.

Sarah: Oh yeah. Well, I think it’s, I think for me it’s, in the northern hemisphere, when it’s fall, it starts to get cold; you go inside; you, you want to, you know, snuggle under some blankets; and I, it, there’s always a different kind of reading that happens for me seasonally, but it’s not like there’s the same type of reading every time.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: One thing I will say, though: I think this summer, summer 2021 in romance is baking: baking competitions, baking romances, food romances, food trucks, and, and, like I said in the last episode, does it have an illustrated cover? It’s contemporary; you’re good. Okay, so this summer is all food, food trucks, food competitions, baking; there’s a lot of books about baking. This fall there are so many books with witches.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: It’s, it’s like somebody heard me say, wow, I could really go for more witch romance, and holy shit, there are so many. Like, it’s incredible how many there are. Okay, there’s A Letter to Three Witches; there’s Witch Please; there’s –

Together: – Payback’s a Witch –

Sarah: – there’s Cackle; there’s The Ex Hex.

Amanda: The Ex – yep.

Sarah: There’s Witches Get Stitches. Like, there are so many frigging witch books. And that’s not a trend of two, like, oh my – oh, it’s two books! It’s a trend! No, that was seven! Seven books that I can name, mostly ‘cause I have them on a list in front of me because –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – that’s how I manage things on a spreadsheet. But they’re, this fall, if you like witches, you are so in luck!

Amanda: A ton!

Sarah: Deeply, deeply in luck. But I am curious: I know other people read seasonally, and I know for some people, once the Christmas and holiday books roll in they are, like, Hallmark channel and Lifetime on one hand and Christmas romances on the other. I give them to my neighbors ‘cause I don’t read them! [Laughs]

Norette asks:

I would love some recommendations for contemporary, cozy mysteries that have a romance element.

We have done this Rec League, and we have lists, and this is definitely one of my favorite types of, of, of romance, and it’s – or, or mysteries – and it’s particular because sometimes a cozy mystery will just skip over all of the negative parts of death to the point where I’m like, are you people even sapient? Like, do you have feelings? Like, there was a dead body! And they disappear like a non-playing character in a videogame. They just zippp, and the dead body has become a reason for us to do things, but it’s not actually a real death –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – that’s fine. So I struggle sometimes with cozy mysteries where death is like, oh yeah, sure, dead things. Dead, dead people happen in this town every week; have you seen our TV show? Like, someone’s always dying, and no one is suspicious here in this town.

Amanda: Yeah, like, why isn’t anyone worried that we’ve had like four dead bodies in the space of a month?

Sarah: Yep. That was one of my favorite elements of the book They Never Learn, because this woman has been very carefully plotting and killing terrible men for years, and finally someone’s like, wait a minute –

Amanda: [Laughs] Wait a darn second!

Sarah: Wait a minute, this college has an absurdly high body count, and then there’s a task force, because they’re like, wait, wait a, wait – that’s a lot of dead people? Maybe we should do something, like form a task force.

But we have links for this we will put in the show notes, and Amanda has some suggestions as well.

Amanda: I just have a couple. I think Dial A for Aunties by Jesse Q. Sutanto has, like, a romance element –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – if I remember correctly.

Sarah: And it’s a silly cozy.

Amanda: Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s like, one of my friends described it as Crazy Rich Asians meets Weekend at Bernie’s.

Sarah: Yeah, I think that’s the book pitch.

Amanda: Oh, is it? I didn’t –

Sarah: Yeah, I think that’s, Erin calls it that. This is one of her titles, yeah.

Amanda: Yeah! I think it’s, like, kind of a fair comparison. The –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – the family puts on, like, events and weddings for very wealthy, like, Asian, like, south Asian, east Asian families, and, you know, a dead body gets shipped to a wedding by mistake.

Sarah: Oops!

Amanda: And then, I think Charlaine Harris’s Aurora Teagarden series?

Sarah: That’s a pretty good suggestion, yeah!

Amanda: Yeah. I tried book one; not for me, but I’m also not much of a cozy mystery reader, either? So, you know, I’m not the targeted audience, but it’s Charlaine Harris, so I think everything she writes kind of has a romantic element to it?

Sarah: Little bit, yeah.

Amanda: But those are my two suggestions. We have a Rec League that was, like, mysteries with romance crossover appeal? A lot of them are historical mysteries, but there’s some other, like, more contemporary cozies in there?

Sarah: There’s some contemporaries in the comments, for sure.

Amanda: And that was a very popular one. I feel like the last two to three years, like, cozy mysteries and historical mysteries with romance were having a, a moment.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So there’s a lot.

Sarah: I think a lot of the genres are starting to overlap more and more. There’s a lot more fantasy romance, and then there’s fantasy romance and fantasy YA romance?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Somebody had emailed me because they were looking for paranormal historicals that weren’t werewolves and vampires, and they were like, well, if I search paranormal historical romance, I get –

Amanda: It’s not paranormal, it’s a fantasy!

Sarah: Exactly! It, I get werewolves, like –

Amanda: I’m, I have very strong opinions about the line between paranormal and fantasy.

Sarah: So paranormal is more creatures, and fantasy –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is abilities and environment.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I mean, that’s a pretty good demarcation, right?

Amanda: I would say so. That’s how I would describe it.

Sarah: Speaking of, Cheri –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – would like to know what trend in romance are you most excited for in the next few years?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This is so shitty of me. I’m going to be a complete ass, and I own that right now. I recognize that the marketing of books is not for me because I’m already in. Like, if you are trying to entice people –

Amanda: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah: – into the world of romance, I am already deep in the back of the amusement park. I know all the places to get food. These are not for me, but I’m a little tired of the illustrated covers. They all look the same, and I can’t tell them apart! I mean, ask Amanda.

Amanda: That –

Sarah: Ask Amanda –

Amanda: That’s fine.

Sarah: – how many times, how many times am I like, okay, so what’s the one with the yellow and the hair? The, the illustrated covers, for me, are becoming a giant monolith of primary covers, and I can’t remember what books look like anymore because there are so many, and they all look the same. And I understand that they work; I understand they work so good, and they are –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – gorgeous, and I love some of the illustrations! I’m not saying the art isn’t good; the art is great! Just, there’s so many, I, like, I looked at a wall of Here’s Our Hot Summer Romances!, and I’m like, you want me to remember words now? I used to remember cover images, and now I can’t because if I say it was an illustrated cover with a dude and a girl, well, I’m going to be buried under books.

So that’s what I want! [Laughs] I’m a terrible person!

Amanda: I’m getting a little, I get a little curmudgeonly about people shitting on illustrated covers?

Sarah: Please note: I am not shitting upon them!

Amanda: Yeah, I know –

Sarah: I am just confused by them!

Amanda: – but this has come up several times.

Sarah: Oh, it does! People have very strong feelings against them. I understand that.

Amanda: I mean, and I get that, like, sometimes an illustrated cover conveys, like, this is a rompy, like, rom-com, and inside it’s not the case.

Sarah: Yeah! Couple of those.

Amanda: So mixed, mixed messages. But from a selling standpoint and from a bookseller standpoint, I have tried to hand-sell clinch covers and mass markets to people who come into a bookstore. They will not have it.

Sarah: Nope!

Amanda: Like, they will, I’ve had people say to me –

Sarah: Completely different audience!

Amanda: I’ve had people say, oh no, I can’t read that, when I try to hand-sell When a Scot Ties the Knot by Tessa Dare.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So, like, I can understand the criticism of the packaging doesn’t match what’s inside. That’s totally fair and valid, especially, like, if you want something light and you read it and it’s angsty and maybe triggering for you or whatever?

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: But, like, also, it’s done a lot for the genre, and if you want romance to keep selling, you’re going to have to deal with it.

Sarah: I mean, it sells! It works!

Amanda: It does!

Sarah: It is a trend that is working, and I still get press inquiries like, hey, I’m writing an article, and what’s with all of these illustrated covers? And I’m like – [deep breath] – well, it is a trend because it is profitable.

Amanda: It sells books, and it’s –

Sarah: I’m super boring. It’s profitable, and that is why. Thanks very much! We’ll be here all week.

Amanda: It’s good for new readers who –

Sarah: Yeah! It’s a, it’s, it’s visually attractive, aside from the homogeneity of the covers when you look at a, like a, an anticipated list. I feel like whatever comes next is going to be astonishing to break out of that homogeneity.

Amanda: Well, I mean –

Sarah: Whatever works and, and grabs the audience and makes the book like a visual accessory, the degree to which the illustrated covers have done that? Like, I get all of things about why they’re appealing, and I completely understand why they work. Like, I get it. I am so curious to see what breaks through the homogenous production value into something new that says, this is a romance.

Amanda: Yeah, I really don’t know, ‘cause –

Sarah: I don’t know either!

Amanda: – so in today’s Books on Sale, for example, there’s an erotic contemporary that’s on sale that came out in the, like, early, like, I think it came out in like 2012 or 2013. And it reminded me of that trend a la Fifty Shades of, like, erotic contemporaries having, like, the single item on the cover, right?

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes, but it was always like a, like a, a –

Amanda: Cufflink or –

Sarah: Right, it was some accessory that was masculine-coded, and I used to joke that they’re going to start using the suspenders that keep your socks up –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and some tie stays and –

Amanda: But, like, I –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Like, bless my grad school professors who would give me assignments that had to do with my interests, but, like, I had to do a report on, like, how Fifty Shades changed romance packaging and marketing.

Sarah: Oh God, didn’t it!

Amanda: But, yeah, so I don’t, I don’t think I can predict what the next thing’ll be.

Sarah: Whatever – see, the thing is, with, with publishing, there are some really talented artists working with publishing, and maybe the illustrations will grow more ornate. I also, I also like the, almost like the paper-cut style, where each layer has a shadow –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – where it looks like a, like a collage? Maybe –

Amanda: Have you seen the cover of –

Sarah: Maybe –

Amanda: – Tokyo Ever After?

Sarah: Nooo?

Amanda: So it’s like a Princess Diaries, new YA –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – but the, it’s got a paper-cut sort of style. And also, like – I said this before, and I’ll say it again – YA covers are just killing it.

Sarah: Oh, they’re gorgeous.

Amanda: Killing it!

Sarah: Oh, it’s beautiful!

Amanda: Isn’t it beautiful?

Sarah: That’s a beau- – it’s almost like a, a collage and a flat lay had a baby.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: It’s gorgeous!

Amanda: I think it’s –

Sarah: And that picks up on the trend of social media flat lays, where everything is photographed straight down from above with, with very diffuse light. There’s no harsh angles; it’s all –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – very, very lit from around. Yeah! It – I do not know how to appeal to an audience that isn’t me. I’m already in the house. I’m already in the kitchen –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – I’m already, you know, I’m, I’m already fluent in this, and I’m already on board. You don’t have to sell the cover to me. I don’t have strong feelings about what the cover looks like in terms of the book –

Amanda: And you –

Sarah: – I’m going to want to read it –

Amanda: – you read digitally a lot, too –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – so you don’t even see the cover most of the time.

Sarah: For me, the challenge is, because of how all, how sameness there is, how much sameness there is, I can’t tell them apart, and I can’t remember them enough, because my brain – the reason HaBO exists is because that’s how my brain is.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I don’t remember titles and authors, and I used to remember covers, but now they’re all the same, so I can’t do that, so I’m like, you know, the one with the, the guy who did the thing, and Amanda’s like, oh! So duh-duh-duh-duh! Thank you!

Amanda: Yeah, this one!

Sarah: Like, that’s how my brain is; that’s why HaBO exists, because that’s how my brain is all the time. It is a hot miracle that I can ever make a recommendation with the cover and the author and the title, and it’s usually ‘cause I have it in a spreadsheet.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Brawler requests recommendations –

Amanda: Brawler!

Sarah: Brawler!

Amanda: For those of you who don’t know, Brawler is a frequent audience member? I don’t know – of the Smart-, SmartTwitches –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – Smart Bitches’ Twitch channel? Brawler is wonderful, so.

Sarah: Hi, Brawler!

Amanda: Hi, Brawler! Brawler says:

I like action, survival, sci-fi, and suspense setting, but too often those involve ultra-macho alpha heroes who are jerks or heroines who are also over-powered jerks. Smart, competent characters are wonderful; jerks are not. Can you recommend books in those genres with more likeable characters?

Julie James, first off –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – if you like suspense.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And we’ve done a couple posts? We’ve done a Rec League on what’s called competence porn. We have, like –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – also a tag on the site for competence porn, where – this is more of, like, Sarah’s wheelhouse – where people are kind of like emotionally intelligent, emotionally fluent.

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: You know, like, not really any danger-banging or danger-boning –

Sarah: [Laughs] Danger-boning!

Amanda: – happening. [Laughs]

Sarah: That was Elyse’s term. They’re after us! We’re in the stairwell. Time out for boning!

Amanda: Time out for boning. We’re, we’re in such danger that we’re too horny.

Sarah: It’s, it’s hard to stop the hornypants.

Amanda: Yes. So we have a couple of those, and then I think another adjacent Rec League is our, like, More Knowledgeable Heroines Rec League, where I wouldn’t say, like, the hero is like a beta hero, but the hero is comfortable taking, like, a back seat to the heroine, who might be more knowledgeable about an industry, more knowledgeable, you know, in the bedroom, whatever. So lots of, like, secure romantic partners.

The series that Catherine has been reading and reviewing by T. Kingfisher, Paladin’s Grace and Paladin’s Strength – are those the –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – the – yeah. So it’s like fantasy, and I think they have some –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – some good choices.

Sarah: And also, older – so there used to be romantic suspense, and then there also was what I called adventure suspense, where it was meant less about, you know, a, a coalition of evil fighting the Alpha Macho Dude Team Six –

Amanda: Special ops mercenaries.

Sarah: Yes, special ops psychic vampire Viking reincarnated –

Amanda: Warriors.

Sarah: – warrior guys, yeah. No. It, it was more like ordinary people finding themselves in some weird situation, sort of like Romancing the Stone: random action survival, but romantic –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – adventure. So Roxanne St. Claire used to write those; Cherry Adair used to write those. Early Zoe Archer is like that, but they’re more, there’s a magical, paranormal element, but the –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – but the Compass Rose? Is it –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Compass Rose series?

Amanda: No, Blades of the Rose.

Sarah: Blades of the Rose! Compass Rose was Gail Dayton. Good job, brain! Thanks, Amanda!

Amanda: You’re welcome!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I would love some more adventure romance –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Amanda: – like Indiana Jones or like The Mummy or whatever.

Sarah: That would, that would be, what trend are we excited for in the next few years? That would be a good one. I would love more –

Amanda: Yeah. I also just want more fantasy romances, too. That’s all I want.

Sarah: That’s all you want?

Amanda: That’s all I want.

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: [Laughs]

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again to Amanda for hanging out with me. Thank you to garlicknitter for the transcript [you’re welcome! – gk], and thank you to our Patreon community for bringing us such delightful questions. We will definitely be doing this again.

As always, I end with a terrible joke, and I love this joke. It is among my favorite things to find a joke so bad and then think, ooh, I can’t wait to tell everybody about this on the podcast! Are you ready? Here we go:

What pan is the best pan to make sushi in?

Give up? What pan is the best pan to make sushi in?

Ja-pan.

[Laughs] That is from /MostStomach4240 on Reddit, and I am deeply grateful. [Laughs more] Japan!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you a wonderful weekend and the very best of reading. We will be back next week, but until then, stay cool, or warm if you’re in the southern hemisphere.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to listen to at frolic.media/podcasts.

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