222. More Behind the Scenes: An Interview with Jessie Edwards

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Sarah Wendell:  Hello, and welcome to episode number 222 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books.  I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books.  With me today is Avon publicist Jessie Edwards.  We are going to go behind the scenes, talk about what it is like to be a publicist, but also what different parts of a publishing house are working on all at the same time and how far apart the timeline is.  It’s really interesting.  We also talk about Avon KissCons and the value of intimate reader and author events in different locations around the US.  Plus, I have some listener email because I am learning about the books that made you into romance readers, and my TBR pile is even more frightening.

I did have some audio problems during the interview, and I tried to edit and smooth them out, but there’re some things that I couldn’t fix, so I apologize in advance for some uneven audio quality.  I did my best.  Even Orville got involved, so I hope it’s not super bothersome.

The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater.  I will have information at the end of the podcast as to who this is.

And I want to make sure to tell you about two things.  Number one:  you are unquestionably awesome for listening to the podcast.  Thank you for being here!  Number two:  if you are a fan of iTunes or iBooks or both of those things, we have a special page for the podcast at iTunes.com/DBSA.  You can find the last few episodes plus some of the books we’re talking to.  Even Zeb wants to bark in the background in support of this entire concept.

And I have one more thing.  I lied; it was three things:  if you are interested in supporting the show, I most, most happily invite you to take a look at our Patreon page, patreon.com/SmartBitches.  For monthly pledges starting with a dollar or three dollars or five dollars a month you can help support the show, help me commission transcripts, and help make sure the podcast is as awesome-ish – awesome-ique? – awesome-ique as it is currently.

Now of course I cannot talk to anyone who works in publishing without talking about an absolute monster-ton of books, so if you’re listening to this in a place where you can’t write things down, which is probably most of you, I will have links to all of the books that we talk about in this episode at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

Our interview begins with me asking Jessie exactly how large her to-do list is, and now on with the podcast, where we’ll find out the answer.

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Sarah:  What are you working on, like, right now?  What is, what is on your, how big is your to-do list, and what’s on it?

Jessie Edwards:  So, my to-do list is massive –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Jessie:  – and insane.  And it, so, it’s kind of a mishmash of things because I do publicity for books, but we also work on branding and conventions and things like that?

Sarah:  Uh-huh.

Jessie:  So I’m working on several different things.  I just had a book come out this week, While the Duke Was Sleeping by Sophie Jordan, so I’m doing, you know, on-sale publicity for that right now.  I just had my books that are coming out next month, they just got printed, they’re fresh off the printer, and they arrived at our offices yesterday, so I’ll start –

Sarah:  Are they, are they actually warm?  Like, when you pick ‘em out of the box if they’re fresh off the printer, do they still retain some warmth, or are they all, like, cold by that point?

Jessie:  That would be so delightful!

Sarah:  Wouldn’t that be nice?

Jessie:  That would be, that would be so great

Sarah:  Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh!  Are, are you old enough to remember the smell of a really good mimeograph?

Jessie:  Sorry, I don’t, I don’t even know what a mimeograph is.

Sarah:  [Laughs] Okay, so, those who are aged and wizened, like me, in elementary school and in middle school we used to get copies, ‘cause the Xerox was way too expensive for schools to have, so there was a –

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – carbon, and they put it on this big roll, and they would basically roll copies through this hand-crank copy machine, but whatever made the copies was, like, super chemical smelling, and so – wait, let me find a piece of paper so I can demonstrate – so we would get the copies, and we would all go [SNIFFFFF], ‘cause they smelled like chemicals, so, like, me and all these fifth graders are huffing the paper.

[Laughter]

Jessie:  Oh, my God!

Sarah:  If the fresh-off-the-printer books smelled like mimeograph, oh, we’d have a real problem!  [Laughs] Anyway, as you were, young person who doesn’t know what a mimeograph is.

Jessie:  Hey, I turned thirty two weeks ago, so –

Sarah:  Happy birthday!

Jessie:  Thank you.  It’s not –

Sarah:  Having the three in the front is pretty frickin’ rad.

Jessie:  What was I just saying?  Oh!  So our, my books that are coming out 11/29, The Viscount and the Vixen by Lorraine Heath and Wild at Whiskey Creek by Julie Anne Long, they just hit the, our offices, and so I’ll be, you know, sending out books, I’ll be sending out press releases and books to reviewers, hopefully within the week.  Let’s see, and then I have galleys in for a book that’s coming out in March, so I’ve sent those galleys out.  I’m going to be doing followups soon.  That’s where I’m at on my books right now, so I’m working things that came out this week, things that are coming out next month, things that are coming out in three months.  Or, well, March is like six months.  Five?  Several months away.

Sarah:  [Laughs] Math.  God damn it, math.

Jessie:  [Laughs] Math is hard.

Sarah:  Math is very hard.

Jessie:  Yeah, so that’s my books right now, but I’m also working on, we’re having our seventy-fifth anniversary party on Friday, so –

Sarah:  Which is a really impressive number.

Jessie:  Yeah.  It’s insane.  We have so many old books in our office right now?  We have so many old historical romances, but we also have all these, like, dime pulp novels going back to, like, 1941 in our office, like, preparing for this, and it’s been –

Sarah:  And as a, as a fan of the genre, like you are, this must be so much fun.

Jessie:  Yeah.  It’s been, it’s been great to be able to go back and see all the, like, original covers of The Wolf and the Dove and The Flame and the Flower, and we have, like, these big huge brandstands with them on it, and you can just see, like, right in front of me, like, what, how romance has evolved.  Avon was, like, the first historical romance publisher that, you know, came out in, like, a big way.  Kathleen Woodiwiss was the first, and so we have it all at our –

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  – at, in our archives, so it’s impressive, I feel, personally.

Sarah:  And I have the, some of the notebooks from RWA, or was it RT?  Where you did the matchbook-style notebooks with the classic covers, I think that was RT.

Jessie:  Yeah, I think we had ‘em at both, but yeah, we used ‘em more at RT, I think, yeah.

Sarah:  Well, I mean, they’re really freaking cool.

Jessie:  Yeah, so they, I think we did six of them, and they have, like, the first Beverly Jenkins cover, you know, Kathleen Woodiwiss, Laurie McBain – I don’t know you saw the Laurie McBain one – you know, Gentle Rogue is on there, Laura Kinsale.  Those are, those are cute.  Those were one of our best promotional items.  But you know, we created those, so RT was in April this year –

Sarah:  Yeah, it was April.

Jessie:  – and we had created those back in, like, February, so, you know, we’re constantly trying to, what’s the next thing we’re going to create for the conventions?  What’s the next new promotional item that we’re going to give people at our events?  So.

Sarah:  Do you notice what promotional items really do well?  Do you think it’s different for publishers versus authors?  ‘Cause I know authors spend a lot of time thinking about the promotional item that they’re going to buy to promote themselves or their books, and – [laughs] – I know my reviewers go to RT and they’re like, I am out of pens.  It is time to go to RT; I have no pens.

Jessie:  I –

Sarah:  And I come back with notebooks, pens, there’s a lot of chocolate, there’s a lot of clips for things, and I get the sense that publishers have a totally different outlook on promo items.

Jessie:  We just want something that people are going to use more than once –

Sarah:  Yeah, definitely.

Jessie:  – you know?  So we definitely encourage our – like, whenever an author comes to me and says, you know, what should I make for my promotional items, ‘cause as you said, they all make a lot of them, I always say, try not to make something that is easy to throw away.  Try not to make something that is, like, paper.  So, you know, postcards and things, when you’re at a convention, they just kind of become this huge pile.

Sarah:  Yep.

Jessie:  And they get, you know, thrown away, people don’t look at them again, and I’m not saying that we don’t create, you know, postcards and bookmarks too, because they do have their place –

Sarah:  You want something that’s going to be used more than once.  Like, I always feel, I always feel very sad when I go down, like, promo alley at RT and someone has taken the time to put all of these tiny little stickers on the bottom of Hershey Kisses, and I’m like, but when you eat the Hershey Kiss you’re going to ball up the wrapper with the name on it and throw it away, and it’s like momentary gratitude for this person who’s, you know, given you chocolate at three o’clock in the afternoon, but the item itself is gone, and the name is gone.

Jessie:  Yeah, so we have, in a lot of our KissCon swag bags – which KissCon is like our own branded mini-con that we do, like, across the country – we have these packets of Hershey Kisses with Avon on them, but those are, like, an added value to the person who’s buying a ticket to come to KissCon.  It’s part of the –

Sarah:  Oh, yeah, that’s, like, part of a whole big thing.

Jessie:  Yeah, so, so that’s one thing, but, yeah, so if you’re an author and you’re just handing out to person after person who’s stopping by your table, then you, you want something that people are going to keep later, so, like, pens – Pam and Carol always get on me ‘cause I say pens and pins the exact same way, but I think both are good:  writing pens and pins you stick on you.

Sarah:  So, the, the things that you decorate yourself with and the thing that you write with are both accurately good pieces of promo.

Jessie:  Yes, because pens are, pens you write with are always useful, and then I have a pin that I clipped to a backpack of mine from RT 2015 still.

Sarah:  Yeah.

Jessie:  So it’s just always there in front of me.  I have, like, chip bag clips.

Sarah:  Oh, chip clips are the shit.  I have one from an author who I don’t even think publishes anymore, and I love that thing.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm, especially ones that are magnetized, ‘cause I definitely have at least three on my fridge, so, from years ago.  So things like that, I think, are the best, things that people are going to find useful later, you know, and just always have the name of your book and your author name in front of them.  That’s my advice.

Sarah:  I also think that there’re two kinds of promo, and this is probably not so much the case at, at KissCon specifically, but there’s the promo that people wear at the conference that you want to get because it is cool, and so it’s something that has value and cachet and sort of, some sort of unique aspect, specifically at the conference.  So whether it’s like a light-up pin or something that’s really sparkly, and you see someone else wearing it, and you’re like, oh, my gosh, that’s so cool; I totally want to have one of those.  You see the item that has value at the conference and you want to get it because it’s cool, and then there’s the stuff that’s useful after the conference, that you may not use at the conference itself.  Like, I do not use chip clips at a conference, but afterward I use the shit out of them because chip clips are the best!

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  And the same with pens and notebooks and – the, the, the most, and I’ve told this be-, I said this before, the, one of the most useful pieces of promo I ever got is a pet food can cover lid – once you’ve opened the pet food can? – from Linda Lael Miller, and –

Jessie:  Wow.

Sarah:  – everyone’s like, oh, Linda Lael Miller.  You know, like, cowboy romances.  Nonononono, pet food!  And it says, from my pet and, from my pets to yours, from Linda Lael Miller.  I love this thing!  It is the most useful piece of swag.  It’s probably eight or nine years old.

Jessie:  Oh, my goodness.

Sarah:  But it’s, like, super useful.

Jessie:  That was effective use of promo budget.

Sarah:  Right?  Seriously effective.  Are there items – what do you, what do you guys do for KissCons?  Like, what are some of the things that you do at KissCon?

Jessie:  Well, we do – do you mean, like, what goes in the swag bag or, like – ?

Sarah:  All of it!

Jessie:  So the KissCons are events we hold across the country in various strategic, like, author hubs.  Like, we have a lot of romance authors in Texas and California.

Sarah:  And you were telling me you were going to do a KissCon in Ohio because there’s a really active, popular library there.

Jessie:  Public library there, yeah.  So our KissCon in Ohio is November 10th, so just in, like, a couple weeks, and it’s at the Cuyahoga Public Library, and they have a fantastic reader base that comes out to events, and we’ve already sold a ton of tickets, and normally we get, we sell tickets early, but we also get a ton of tickets sold right before the event.

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  So, but, I mean, we’ve, we’ve already sold a ton.  Yeah, the, the public library there has always been a really great partner to us, so we were excited to be able to go there.  But, so at the KissCons we have maybe a group of six to nine authors – nine’s a lot – but six to nine authors who come, and people can buy VIP tickets and get in early, and they’ll get this really nice swag bag with, like, an Avon tote, and inside the tote is some kind of wineglass or tumbler; some little treats like the Hershey Kisses I was talking about; a free book from, not from one of the authors that’s there; and then it also, the ticket also includes the purchase of a book from one of the authors there, and so they can mix and mingle with the authors, and there’s catering and there’s wine.  That’s, like, the first half of the event, the VIP portion, and then everyone sits down, the authors all, you know, get up on the dais or whatever, and then it’s open to the public, everyone can come, and we do these, like, really fun activities with the authors, like speed-round questions, and then we ask trivia questions to the audience so they can win prizes, and then the authors will do a Q&A so the audience can ask them whatever they want, and then we do a book signing, and it’s all over in maybe two and a half hours, but it’s just a lot of bang for your buck, I think, and you get to talk to these authors.

Sarah:  So it’s basically a couple of hours, but it’s super intense personal time.

Jessie:  Yeah.  It’s, like, access to authors in an intimate setting, so it’s not so crazy as the bigger conventions, you know?

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Jessie:  And, you know, we always do a mix of historical and contemporary authors, and we’ve just had some really great events.  I think we started this last year, maybe 2014 we started it, and it’s been, I’ve been to maybe four of them?  Five of them?  And I’ve loved it.  I think it’s, it’s, it’s a great way to interact with authors, and you’re not having to send your authors out alone.  The KissCons are a way to get, you know, a number of authors there, and it makes it really exciting for people, for readers to come, and they get a lot of value, ‘cause they’re spending time and money to see this, and we want to be able to give them value for that.

Sarah:  Right, and it, and it helps you because it’s in one location, you don’t have multiple concurrent things going on at the same time, you have a very specific flow of, you know, event to event to event, and it’s very centered on the authors that you’ve brought and the people who’ve, really want to be there.

Jessie:  Yeah, mm-hmm.

Sarah:  It must be a very enthusiastic room.

Jessie:  Yeah!  Yeah!  Everyone is, it’s amazing to me how they just, like, go up to the authors and talk to them and ask them questions and talk about their writing process, and the authors are so warm and welcoming, and they just want to meet the readers and, you know, have a good time.  So everyone who’s there is a huge romance fan.

Sarah:  That’s the best.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.  So I think they’re one of the best things that we’ve done in my tenure at Avon, personally.

Sarah:  And it’s, and it’s not like, it’s not like you’re gone for a week.

Jessie:  Yeah!  You’re gone for two days.

Sarah:  It’s totally a manageable amount of time.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Even if you’re an introvert.

Jessie:  Yeah!

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Jessie:  And so there’s always someone from Avon there to help facilitate the conversation, so if you have, like, readers who are shy or authors who are shy, you know, there’s always someone there to help make the connection.

Sarah:  [Laughs] You have publicists!  Publicists –

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – who are not shy.

Jessie:  I mean – [laughs] – yeah.  I, I thought I was shy, and then I got this job, and I was like, oh, I can’t be shy.

Sarah:  Nope.

Jessie:  I, I literally cannot, or I cannot do my job, and so then I just got over it.

Sarah:  That’s something I wanted to actually ask you about.  I think that in, in a lot of senses – like, I used to be an administrative assistant on a high level, and I realized after a year or so that not everyone can do that job.  It takes a lot of specific skills to be organized and aware of multiple moving parts all the time, and the same, I think, is true of publicity.  It is not a simple job, and it is not a, a position that I think you can just sort of wander into and be like, oh, yeah, I can totally do this.  You need a very specific set of skill sets to be able to handle it.  Do you think that’s true, or you think I’m totally talking out my ass?

Jessie:  I think that it is not necessarily, like, a skilled job the way that, say, engineering, like –

[Laughter]

Jessie:  But I, I like, so, you know, I, I would never be able to be an engineer, and I would never be able to be taught that, but I think publicity’s a little more accessible than something like that, but I also think you have to be able to handle high levels of stress, a high amount of pressure on you to be able to handle things you can’t control –

Sarah:  Yes.

Jessie:  – so publicity’s a lot of outside forces that you’re having to manage and coordinate, and not everything necessarily goes the way that you need it to go, so you have to have grace under pressure, and you have to be able to think of creative solutions to problems, and you have to be able to soothe fears of, you know, authors or media; soothe, like, ruffled feathers; and you have to be charming; and you have to not worry about, like, being a pest.  So when, like, you’re, you’re talking to media, and you’re, you –

Sarah:  Yeah.

Jessie:  – try not to bother people, but you have to bother people, ‘cause that’s your job, so you have to just kind of let that go –

Sarah:  Yep.

Jessie:  – and do your job.

Sarah:  I never think you’re a pest.  I never –

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – think you’re a pest.  [Laughs]

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And you also have to deal with rejection.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm, yep.  You just have to say, okay, you said no.  This, at least you responded!

Sarah:  [Laughs] At least I heard back from you!  That’s great!

Jessie:  Yeah, so you’ve just got to, like, let it go and move on to the next thing, you know?

Sarah:  Yep.

Jessie:  Or you have to, you have to, like, change that no to a yes –

Sarah:  Yep.

Jessie:  – depending on the situation, so, yeah.

Sarah:  So it’s, so it’s persuasion and rejection and organization and persistence.

Jessie:  Yes.  Which I think it takes, it’s, it’s a job that takes a huge emotional toll on you, so you have to be able to handle that.

Sarah:  Yes.  And you have to manage how your job, how, how much stress you absorb from other people.

Jessie:  Right.  I think, you have to be, like, the calmest person in the room, you know.

Sarah:  Yes, always.

Jessie:  You have to be the calmest person in the room.

Sarah:  [Laughs] And you have to sort of not freak out when everyone else is, might be freaking out.

Jessie:  Yeah, because when you freak out you can’t think of how to fix the problem.

Sarah:  Right.  So your job is, like, a piece of cake!

Jessie:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Easy.

Jessie:  It is, though; it’s exhilarating!

Sarah:  Easy as – ooh, exhilarating, that’s a good way to spin it.  That’s the other thing you have to do; you have to be able to spin on a dime.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Like, somebody says something shitty about romance, and you have to be able to respond and spin without saying, well, you’re a fucking asshole.

Jessie:  Yeah.  I just save that for, you know, when I email you about my romance awful Google alert –

Sarah:  Yes!

Jessie:  – and how angry they make me.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Sarah, this fucking asshole!  I’m like, oh, I know!  That asshole is a complete fucking asshole!  Yes, thank you!  Okay, moving on!

Jessie:  And I would never say those words in a work email ever.

Sarah:  No, of course not.  No, no, no, no, no.

Jessie:  Yeah, no, you, you’ve just got to let that stuff go.  Get it out in a different way.

Sarah:  [Laughs] Go take a baseball bat to a broken air conditioner and call it a day.

Jessie:  Exactly.

Sarah:  So you’re working on what’s coming out now, what’s coming out next week, what’s coming out next week, what’s coming out next month, and what’s coming out in a couple of months, especially big titles for early next year.

Jessie:  Yes, but then we’re also working on the seventy-fifth anniversary on Friday, the KissCon November 10th, and Pam has already been doing site surveys in Orlando for RWA, but apart –

Sarah:  Which is in July of next year.

Jessie:  Yes.  We’ve got a lot.

Sarah:  That is a lot!

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  That’s far projection.

Jessie:  And I think RT panels are due soon.

Sarah:  Yeah, I think they’re putting together the final schedule.

Jessie:  Yeah.  Oh, yeah, so.

Sarah:  Yeah, you know, piece of cake.

Jessie:  Yeah.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Now –

Jessie:  There’s a lot of deadlines you’ve got to keep in your head.

Sarah:  Yeah, that’s the part where I would be like, I am so screwed, ‘cause I never know what day it is or time it is or year it is.  But you also have a very different timeline with other parts of Avon.  Like, editorial would be acquiring for when?  Next year?  2018?

Jessie:  2018, so 2017 is pretty much closed for print titles, I would say.  Like, for, for Avon and Harper Voyager, which is the sci-fi/fantasy imprint I also work on –

Sarah:  So all of the print books for that year, for next year, are pretty much set.

Jessie:  Are pretty much set.  I, I won’t say they’re, like –

Sarah:  A hundred percent.

Jessie:  A hundred percent set in stone.  Like, who, like, you know –

Sarah:  Things always change.

Jessie:  – but I think that editors right now are looking to acquire for winter 2018.

Sarah:  So they are looking at just over a full year away from now in terms of what they’re acquiring.

Jessie:  Yes, because print production schedules, you know, actually producing the physical book, require, requires that much time.

Sarah:  Wow.

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  So –

Jessie:  That’s what editors are doing, but other departments, so, like, our sales department is currently, we have, we have summer 2017 sales conference next week, so the sales team is finishing up selling in their, our winter titles, which winter is from January to April, and selling in means the sales representatives go to all of their accounts, which is, you know, the big, like, Barnes and Noble and Walmart and Target and such, and then it’s also, like, all the indie stores, and they, they sell in the books, and so they can, you know, they pitch our lists to the buyers, the book buyers from those stores to decide what they want to stock.  So they’re just finishing up winter 2017, and they, we have sales conference next week, and that means that all of our sales reps are going to come in and hear the marketing teams talk about the books that are coming out in summer 2017 so that the sales reps can go into the field and sell those books in.

Sarah:  So the sales team is looking at next summer.

Jessie:  Yes.

Sarah:  Wow.

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I mean, that’s –

Jessie:  So they’re reading those manuscripts; they’re, you know, listening to our plans for them; they’re seeing, you know, they’re determining which regions they might sell better in and which stores they’ll work better for.

Sarah:  That’s kind of amazing.  I mean, that’s really far out, if you’re thinking about the fact that, as a publicist, you’re focused on this month and next month and then major events in the coming year, and sales is looking at next summer, and editorial is looking at next winter.  I mean, that’s almost a year, almost a year and a half, maybe, a year and a quarter of time span that you’re all working on concurrently.

Jessie:  Yep.

Sarah:  Man, publishing is interesting!

Jessie:  So many moving pieces and so many, you know – a sales person could be talking to me about a book.  I’ll be like, I’m not even thinking about, like, how, why are you talking about that to me right now?  I have too many other things going on, but they have to, you know, get ready to sell in, and they’re like, where are the authors going to tour?  Like, what’s the plan for that?  And so everyone’s got to have all these things in their mind all the time.

Sarah:  That’s really incredible.

Jessie:  Further complicating it is our Impulse list, which works on a much smaller timeline.

Sarah:  That’s a much shorter time to market.

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  From the time the book is acquired to the time that it’s released, that’s a shorter schedule.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.  And I mean, we can, we can keep it on the same schedule.  Like, we might not have a book that, you know, we just bought it, it’s not coming out for a year, but that’s unusual.

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  Our art department for our mass markets works on about a year ahead of time, and then for our Impulse titles they work maybe five months ahead of time, and that’s, like, a good cushion of time.

Sarah:  Wow.  That’s real, that’s incredible.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.  Yeah.  It’s a lot going on.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  That is a lot going on.  So how do you all get together to get onto the same page when things need to happen at once?  Like, do editors come to talk to you about books that are coming out?

Jessie:  Well, like, we have our, we have our launches.  We have, you know, hardcover, trade paperback, and mass market launch, which is where the editors come and pitch us their upcoming titles that they’ve bought.  We just had hardcover and trade paperback planning, which is where publicity and marketing talk about what our goals are for the books coming out in summer 2017.  It’s the end of October, and we just planned summer 2017.

Sarah:  I haven’t even thought about summer 2017.  Like, I, I think I put a deposit down for summer camp, and that is as much as I’ve thought about it.

Jessie:  I don’t like talking about it because it’s starting to get cold here, and I just want it to be warm again.  [Laughs] I’m like, well, these books will come out when it’s warm.

Sarah:  [Laughs] I will think about these books.  So can you talk a little bit about what some of the big titles are this winter and spring?  Like, you know, the imminent, immediate future.

Jessie:  The biggest title upcoming for me in winter, obviously Devil in Spring by Lisa Kleypas.

Sarah:  Oh, you don’t say.

Jessie:  Like, obviously.  Everyone’s so excited about that.  I’m so excited about that.  Haven’t gotten to read it yet – I’m dying, I’m dying to read it. 

Sarah:  I was just going to ask you if you’d read it.  The cover is gorgeous.

Jessie:  It’s so beautiful.

Sarah:  It really, it’s, it’s almost luminous.  Like, it has this glow –

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – to the way the light is used, and don’t think that I have forgotten that at RT you sliced the pages out of the ARC of her last book so that people would have to come to you and ask, well, I need the pages of the next book because it, the whole thing was a spoiler to Devil in Spring.

Jessie:  Yes.

Sarah:  That was evil, and I’m still working on getting over it.

Jessie:  I, I have never felt more devious.  And never felt more powerful.

Sarah:  [Laughs] You and that box cutter, I swear.

Jessie:  I felt so powerful.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  People don’t understand that if you have a box cutter and a Sharpie, you are legitimately the most powerful person in the room.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.  Agreed, agreed.

Sarah:  I don’t mean, like, in terms of ability to do harm, but if you have a Sharpie and a box cutter, you’re in charge.

Jessie:  Yep.

Sarah:  Like, I don’t care who has a clipboard, I don’t care who has the megaphone, if you have the box cutter and the Sharpie, you’re in charge.

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  So you had that much power, and you sliced the pages out of the back of the last ARC so that on April 1st I got an advanced copy of this book right before I went to RT, and the pages for the next book were cut – that is just mean!

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  I’m going to need to ‘til winter 2018 to get over that.

Jessie:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  I’m going to ask editorial, what are you acquiring?  No, nope, still not over it.  [Laughs]

Jessie:  I don’t know if we’re going to do anything like that for Devil in Spring.  I don’t know if there’s going to be any big revelations for the next book.

Sarah:  Ohhh, I don’t know if I can take anymore.

Jessie:  I can’t, I can’t think of what it would be, but she’s always got something up her sleeve, so, man, I’m excited.  Another big title that I have coming out in the winter is the next Jeaniene Frost, Into the Fire.

Sarah:  Oh!  Is that part of the, is that a new series?

Jessie:  No, it’s the fourth book with Vlad and Leila.

Sarah:  That’s it, it’s the Vlad series, thank you.  You still get excited when you get to promote a book and, and make people excited about a book.

Jessie:  Yeah, because, you know, I love these books.  I love, like, I’m waiting for Devil in Spring just like everyone else is, and so I am excited to have people, you know, feeling the same way that I do about, about these things.  It’s nice to have that community.  Everyone’s like this groundswell of, oh, my gosh, we can’t wait.

Sarah:  And you still get that like too, get, like, that – you still have that same feeling when you’re waiting on a, on a title that you’re really excited for.  You still get excited about books too.

Jessie:  Yeah.  Yeah.  And the thing is, is I, I get them so early, for, when the Avon books I’m really excited about, and the editors are like, okay, do you want to read this right now while it’s not quite done?  And I’m like, no.  I want it when it’s done, but I hate that you’ve told me you have it because I want it right now.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Jessie:  But I like having the complete package, you know.  If they’re going to change something I, I won’t necessarily go back and read it right away, and so I want to have, I want to read it when it’s as complete as possible before I have to start working on it.

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And it must be really hard to read things so early that you don’t really have that many people you can talk to them about.

Jessie:  Yeah!  Because spoilers!  Blah.

Sarah:  [Laughs] And you, you know, you really, really, really want to talk to somebody about this book.  Like, you were going bonkers for The Hating Game and didn’t have anybody to talk about it with.

Jessie:  And then I had everyone to talk to about it, because everyone loved it.

Sarah:  Wasn’t that awesome?

Jessie:  Yes, yes, it was really good.  It got reviewed in the New York Times, and I am convinced it got reviewed in the New York Times because everyone in the world was talking about it online, so.

Sarah:  Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me, because everyone was talking about it.

Jessie:  Everyone was talking about it.  It was so exciting.  I haven’t felt that way about a book in a really long time.

Sarah:  Isn’t that lovely?

Jessie:  Mm-hmm, and I haven’t felt that excitement – you have to read this!  You have to read this!  We’re so excited, you have to read this!  It was such a word-of-mouth book; that was great, too.  That, that’s a great thing when you can have a word-of-mouth book.

Sarah:  And there’s also, there, it’s rare, I think, to, to finish a book and be like, [gasps] oh, my gosh!

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Or, or even while you’re reading it think, I am having the best time right now.  This is so great!  Like, I, I’ve had that feeling once or twice a year, and I count myself very fortunate, and I love that feeling so much.

Jessie:  Yeah, and you’re, like, trying to read so fast ‘cause you’re so excited by what you’re reading, but then you’re also trying to slow down because you, you know how good you feel is not easily replicated, and you don’t want it to go away.

Sarah:  Nope, nope, nope.  Exactly.  So, question for you then –

Jessie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  What are you reading, and what do you, what do you want to recommend?  What books have you read where you’re just like, I am so excited about this?

Jessie:  So I was talking about While the Duke Was Sleeping by Sophie Jordan, which came out this week.  It, I think it’s the sexiest thing that she’s ever written, honestly, and she’s written some sexy stuff.  She, you know, she moved into New Adult, and, and she’s currently writing her Devil’s Rock contemporary trilogy, which has, like, ex-cons as the heroes?  And those are all, you know, really hot, which I think is the trend right now in contemporary romance, but Sophie has taken that and moved it back into her historical, and it’s just a really interesting mashup of the traditional romantic historical –

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  – and then super, super, super sexy, so I’m into that.

Sarah:  What, what is the, the plot or the hook for that one?

Jessie:  Well, it’s called While the Duke Was Sleeping, and it is based off of While You Were –

Sarah:  While You Were Sleeping, right.

Jessie:  Yeah, and it follows the plot.  I mean, there’re, you know, twists and turns, but the initial premise is pretty much the same, which is where it’s this girl who’s kind of built up this fantasy around this nobleman, and she ends up saving his life, but he’s knocked into a coma, you know, as a result of a fall, and so she somehow convinces his family, or accidentally convinces his family that she’s his fiancé, but his brother, his illegitimate brother is, you know, suspicious of her, and then they have an attraction to each other, so then it, it follows from there.

Sarah:  And it’s super, super sexy.

Jessie:  Yeah, I mean just scene after scene of –

Sarah:  Unresolved sexual tension.

Jessie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  [Laughs] ‘Cause that never ever ever gets old.

Jessie:  Yeah.  No.  It, it was good.  I read it on the train, and it was…I shouldn’t have been reading it on the train.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  That was a bad idea; shouldn’t have done that.

Jessie:  And then I was telling you my two books that come out next month are, that just hit the, just hit the office, are The Viscount and the Vixen by Lorraine Heath, and I talk about her all the time, so I won’t talk about this one too much, but I will say that she is writing some of the most interesting, intricate plots in historical romance today.

Sarah:  No kidding!

Jessie:  I, yeah, I’m just absolutely amazed that she’s been writing this long and just keeps coming up with this, this fresh, complex stuff.  I, her editor will, like, tell me the plots for the novels, you know, you know, two, three down the road, and I’m like, are you, are you kidding?  How is she going to pull that off?  Like, with all of them.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Jessie:  So this one is kind of like the, this old man has advertised for a bride, and this woman who’s in a bit of a, a, a pickle comes and answers the advertisement, and the man’s son is like, she’s just a fortune hunter, and she doesn’t need to be marrying my dad, and so I’m going to take his place, and then, you know, plot twists from there.  And then we’ve got Wild at Whiskey Creek by Julie Anne Long, which also comes out November 29th, and if you haven’t read her contemporaries yet, I highly recommend that you do immediately.  And you know how much I love her historicals; I think I talked about them on the last podcast.

Sarah:  Yep.

Jessie:  Well, I think her contemporaries are even better, and her historicals are, like, above and beyond phenomenal, and she’s just, like, elevated herself to a whole new level with the contemporaries.  And so, so Wild at Whiskey Creek is this second chance at love story, and it’s a sheriff in a small town, his name’s Eli, and local girl Glory Greenleaf, and she’s, she’s, like, this girl who was meant for bigger and better things, but because of her family situation has had to stay in this small town –

Sarah:  Right.

Jessie:  – and she and Eli used to be really great friends, but then he commits what she considers to be this ultimate act of betrayal, and so now they’ve got this kind of, like, love/hate relationship going on, and it’s just, like, this really powerful romance, and outside of that it’s just, like, their personal heartaches that they’ve gone through in their life are just wrenching, and she does this great job of, of melding the romance through their personal stories, which you don’t necessarily always find, and so it’s fun, but it’s also, you know, it’s like real life and heartbreaking in the way that real life is heartbreaking.

Sarah:  And when you have a character that’s been secretly in love with another character, there, it’s, it’s a really tricky balancing act because you have the part where the, the object of affection doesn’t know, and you have to sustain that sort of unrequited angst at whatever level the angst is.  It could be mild, it could be really ang-, you know, deeply aching, but you have to sub-, sustain the angst of unrequited attraction and then turn it into knowledge of the attraction and then an actual relationship and do that in a way that one side isn’t rushed or the other side isn’t too short.

Jessie:  Right.

Sarah:  It’s really a tricky plot.

Jessie:  And she just does it masterfully.  Masterfully.  And then one last one from Avon that I’ll mention is a debut we’ve got coming out next year at the end of March by Lisa Berne?  I think that’s how you say her name – B-E-R-N-E; I’ll have to ask her – and it’s called You May Kiss the Bride, and it’s about this gentleman who has to marry.  His, like, moth-, grandmother is insisting that he marry, and so she picks out a girl for him, he’s going to do it, but then he gets caught in this compromising situation with a completely unacceptable girl, and I’ve just started it, but the opening scene is just freaking brilliant, and it’s between Livia and the other – Livia is the heroine – and the other girl that he’s, like, supposed to marry, and it’s, they’re, they’re with their families in a drawing room, and there’s so much tension, there’s so much passive-aggressiveness going on, and there’s just, like, just sharp comment after sharp comment, that it’s like all of this, like, Jane-Austen-esque level of wit running through it, and it’s just the, the social dynamics that are displayed there.  I, I was fascinated by it.  And the hero, like, hadn’t even been introduced yet.  This is the first scene in the book, so.  I haven’t finished it, but I’m really excited about that one.

The things that I’m, like, really ob-, obsessed with right now are Kulti by Mariana Zapata, which is like this almost six hundred page long slow burn romance about a soccer player and, a female soccer player and a retired male soccer player who becomes the assistant coach on her team, and he’s just kind of an asshole, but they end up striking up this really strange friendship, and you can just, it’s told first person from her point of view, but you can see how much he loves this girl, and it’s just gut-wrenching moment after gut-wrenching moment of, like, pining, but all told from her point of view, and she has no idea how he feels.  It’s like the best thing ever.

And then finally it’s, so on the last podcast I was saying how I don’t read a lot of male/male stuff, but that has absolutely changed since then, and I’ve got three really good ones just, I’ll mention really quickly.  The first is Overexposed by Megan Erickson, which came out in September.  It’s about this former reality TV star who’s hiking the Appalachian Trail by himself in order to deal with, like, this loss, and on the trail he meets this guy who’s, like, kind of quiet and surly, who’s got secrets, and I emailed Megan after I read it, and I was like, Thad, the guy with the secrets, the surly guy?  He absolutely wrecked me.  Like, just, my emotions were all over the place because of how powerful his story was, and it’s a kind of a spoiler to say why, so I won’t, but anything Megan Erickson writes, I’ll read, so.

My new favorite writer is Santino Hassell, who sometimes writes with Megan Erickson, but he’s got this really great series called the Five Boroughs series that he writes by himself, and Interborough just came out this week, and it’s a sequel to Sunset Park, which is my favorite of his books.  And I really like his writing style because it’s not overly dramatic –

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Jessie:  – and the conflicts are real conflicts that we’ve probably all had in our relationships.  They just, like, kind of flow organically from the flaws that he’s built into the characters, and, but the emotional inten-, intensity of it is such that, you know, you’re not, like, bored by it just ‘cause you know these problems from your own like.  You’re so invested in the, the fate of the relationships of the characters that you just have to keep reading, and I think, I think he’s one of the, the most interesting writers writing today, just with the way that he builds his characters.

And then last one I’ll mention is Tessa Bailey because I love her to death, and she’s written her first male/male.  It’s called Wound Tight, and it comes out, I think it comes out in December, and it’s part of her Made in Jersey series, so it’s got this security guard named Milo who has just recently, you know, come, he was just recently come out, and he is kind of attracted to Renner, who is, like, the owner of the warehouse where Milo is a security guard.  He, like, owns the entire company, and he was kind of the antagonist in some previous books?  Anyway, so Milo’s, like, newly come out, and he likes this guy, so he asks Renner to help him just kind of, like, learn basically about dating guys, ‘cause he just has no idea what to do.  I think Tessa does some, like, really nuanced stuff with the power dynamic between them because, you know, you’ve got Renner who, like, has always been out and, you know, knows what he’s doing, super competent, he’s the owner of the company, and then Milo, who’s just kind of trying to find his way, but he’s obviously the one who better knows how to work a relationship?  So just the power dynamics between them, she’s written them just so compellingly.  And of course it’s super sexy, because Tessa Bailey can never write anything that wasn’t super sexy.

Sarah:  Right, of course.

Jessie:  Yeah, so, that’s what I got for you.

Sarah:  So that is the end of the interview, but I have a little more for you, because, well, you’re all awesome.  I have an email from Missy about the books that made her into a romance reader, and I seriously love receiving these, so if you would like to tell me about the book that made you into a romance reader, you can email me at [email protected], because it’s awesome to hear from you.  And you all came into romance through different books; it’s really interesting.  So here’s what Missy has to share:

Missy’s email:  I was listening to the latest podcast this past weekend and I have been thinking of, “What book/author got you into romance”, since your first show.

Both of my Grandmothers were avid romance readers, but my paternal Grandmother belonged to Barbara Cartland & Harlequin book club.  I remember how magical it seemed as a child to have boxes of brand new books arrive EVERY month.  When I was in fourth grade she got me my own magical box of books, the entire collection of Laura Ingalls Wilder Little House books.  As a child of the seventies and a Minnesotan I was over the moon!

In junior high my father remarried and my step-mother wouldn’t let me watch a rated R movie, but I was allowed to read any books on the shelf.  [SW:  Uh-oh!  [Laughs]]  I remember reading all of the Calder Series by Janet Dailey, Wideacre by Philippa Gregory (that was an eye opener), all of the Flowers in the Attic books, and even Lady Chatterley’s Lover.  [SW:  Okay!  [Laughs]]

I only occasionally would pick up a romance here and there until about two years ago when my husband gave me a Kindle for Christmas.  The first book I downloaded was A Christmas to Remember by Jenny Hale.  Light and sweet and just the right book to dive back in the much larger pool of romance.  I am often downloading books mentioned in the podcasts and for that I am grateful.  You all do a great job sharing your enthusiasm for a particular book, author or genre.

Keep up the great work!

Missy – romance-addict

Sarah:  Okay, that’s hilarious that your stepmother wouldn’t let you watch R-rated movies, but the shelf was open.  Wow!  Okay, that completely worked out in your favor.  Thank you so much for emailing me.

And like I said, if you are listening and thinking, oh, I remember the book that made me into a romance reader, I would love to hear about it!  You can email me at [email protected].

[music]

Sarah:  And that is all for this week’s episode.  I want to thank you for listening, and I want to thank Jessie Edwards for hanging out with me.  As I said in the intro, I will have links to all of the books that we mentioned in the podcast entry.

You can also find the podcast at iTunes.com/DBSA, and I had a look around the different places where the podcast is listed to make sure that the feed is working correctly, and I noticed there’re, like, a ton more reviews of the shows, and you guys said all these nice things, so thank you!  You’re awesome!  I really appreciate that.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater.  You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater and on Facebook at pawsitivelysassy.  That’s P-A-W-sitivelysassy.  This is Peatbog Faeries from their CD Dust.  This track is called “Dun Beag.”  You can find the whole album on Amazon or iTunes or wherever you buy your fine music.

I also want to invite you to have a look at our Patreon page at patreon.com/SmartBitches.  You can make a pledge of a dollar a month, three dollars a month, five dollars a month to help support the show, keep the podcast rolling along, and help me commission transcripts for all of the episodes that don’t have one yet.  If you have already pledged or taken a look or shared the link, thank you very, very much!

Future podcasts will involve me talking about romance novels, and I have really cool episodes coming up, too.  I’m very excited.  I have an episode where I interview Deanna Raybourn, I have an episode where Elyse and I are going to talk about heroine rage and vindication, and I have a cool episode where the two children of a much-loved romance author are going to tell me what it’s like to keep her legacy going.  I’m really looking forward to that one too.

But until then, on behalf of Jessie and myself and everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading.  Have a great weekend.

[excellent music]