266. It’s All About the Lighting: Instagram and Social Media Strategy with Ryanne Probst from Penguin Berkley

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 266 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books! I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me today is Amanda, also of Smart Bitches, and Ryanne Probst. Ryanne is the associate publicist for Berkley Publishing, which is part of Penguin Random House. Ryanne is also the creative mastermind behind Berkley Romance’s Instagram account, and it is a truly beautiful account. It’s a feed that both Amanda and I admire, so we asked if we could talk to her about it. We talk about why Instagram works for books and what people in the book community and the romance community are looking for on Instagram. We also discuss some technical details, such as setting up shots and image composition, lighting, props, positioning, and how Instagram has helped promote Berkley authors, romance fiction, and boosted other aspects of branding on multiple levels. We talk about how some of Ryanne’s favorite pictures came about and what apps she recommends for optimizing images – don’t worry; I have links to all of them – plus, we learn Amanda’s true feelings about hashtags.

Now, I’m curious about something. One of the things we talk about is using social media for book recommendations. Have you purchased a book because of Instagram or another form of social media? Did you like it? Did that recommendation work for you? I’m really curious. If you’d like to reply or tell me all about it, you can email me at [email protected] or Sarah, S-A-R-A-H, at smartbitchestrashybooks.com [[email protected]] or you can leave a message at 1-201-371-3272 or, you know, record a voice memo in your phone and then email it to me, which is exactly the same as a voicemail almost, because they both get emailed to me. Either way, I’m curious: if you’ve ever purchased a book because of Instagram or social media, I’m curious how it worked out for you.

This week’s episode is brought to you by His Perfect Partner by Priscilla Oliveras. It takes two to tango. Four-time Golden Heart finalist Priscilla Oliveras debuts with a novel that proves love is a delicate dance; all it takes are two willing partners. Professional dancer Yazmine Fernandez has left romance behind her after a bad breakup and is focusing on helping her father recover from a long illness, so she does not have time to be distracted by handsome Tomas Garcia, the father of one of her young dance students, Maria. And Tomas, shattered by his divorce, is too focused on his career to have a personal life, but Yazmine and Tomas grow closer, with Maria’s help, of course, and the rhythms of their lives fall into step, perfectly matched. It may be time for them to face the music. Warm-hearted, sizzling with romantic tension and plenty of Latin flare, Priscilla Oliveras delivers a romance readers won’t soon forget. For more information, visit kensingtonbooks.com. And thank you very much, Kensington, for sponsoring the podcast this month. I appreciate that so much!

And speaking of things that I appreciate, there’ve been so many reviews left for the show! Thank you! You’re all awesome! I super appreciate that! Apparently, reviews are more and more and more and more important. Like, I know reviews are important; I’m a reviewer, but the algorithms for podcast distribution and highlighting, you know, what’s trending, what’s new, rely a lot on feedback, and since we’re a pretty niche show, I’ve never really thought that we would end up being a featured show on any apps, but we have so many positive, five-star reviews – thank you! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! That is so rad! I appreciate it!

I also want to mention that we have a podcast Patreon, and I am commissioning transcripts for older episodes because we reached our goal. Thank you so much for that! I am so excited, and it’s really fun to go into the archives and look at the older episodes as they get transcribed. It’s fun because some things have not changed and some things are very different from all of those years ago. It’s fantastic, so thank you again for being the most excellent listeners.

Our music each week is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. I will have information at the end of the show as to who this is, but I am also really enjoying this album. Unfortunately, I don’t think this group is on MySpace, and you know how much I love that.

I will have links to all of the books we talk about, plus links to all of the Instagram feeds that we mention and all of the apps and programs that we talk about for improving your Instagram photos, if that is a thing that you love. And if you are super into Instagram, I would love to hear from you, and I would also like to get a link to your feed, ‘cause Instagram is very much my happy place lately.

I will also have, at the end of the episode, a terrible joke, so if you want to listen to the whole outro – and by the way, outro is totally a word! – stay tuned to the end because the jokes are terrible, and I so enjoy finding them. They make you groan. You can email me and yell at me about them.

Now, without any delay – further delay, I’m going to stop talking now – let’s do a podcast!

[music]

Ryanne Probst: I’m Ryanne Probst. I currently work for Berkley publicity, specifically with our romance books, so if any of you have, are bloggers, I’ve probably been speaking to you. Yeah, I’ve been working for Berkley for almost three years now. I’ve always been a huge romance fan since, like, I graduated off of Gossip Girl books at the age of twelve, and so since then, it’s just been, you know, all romance from here, so this is the perfect place for me. But, yeah!

Sarah: What do you do as part of your responsibilities as a publicist at Berkley? What are some of the things that you are in charge of?

Ryanne: Sure. So, a lot of it is handling campaigns for romance authors, whether that be blog tours, bookstore events. Basically, we’re just trying to get the word out about the book. A lot of it is me telling you something I do in my everyday life anyways, like telling people why they should read books?

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yeah, I know that story.

Ryanne: [Laughs] So, this is kind of, it was kind of a perfect fit, ‘cause I was already doing that. Yeah, a lot of it is online, working with the romance community, which has been such a treat. The romance community is so fun and vibrant. But, yeah, I also handle some of our social media, including the Instagram.

Sarah: Which is why we wanted to keep you prisoner and ask you lots of questions.

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Sarah: How did you start running the Berkley Instagram?

Ryanne: So, it originally started, we wanted to give a voice for the Berkley Romance titles and community. I was originally working on the regular Berkley Instagram account, which covers more of our, like, general fiction, sci-fi, fantasy, that kind of thing, so we wanted to have a separate entity for romance, because we noticed that there is this huge romance community on Instagram that was specifically just talking about romance, so of course we wanted to have a voice there and talk about all of our amazing titles. So that’s kind of how it started; we just wanted to have a platform on there. We noticed how fast Instagram is growing, and we started it about, gosh, it’s been maybe a year and a half ago now? Maybe – I think that’s right.

Sarah: Wow. And how many followers on Instagram do you have now? Have you taken a look recently?

Ryanne: Yeah, so we have a little over six thousand, which is amazing. It’s more than I ever –

Sarah: That is really impressive!

Ryanne: – more than I ever dreamed of when I first started this, and it’s just so cool to see that people are talking about books on there and that people are talking about romance on there. Yeah, it’s really grown.

Sarah: So, Amanda –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: You run the Smart Bitches Instagram –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – and when you originally approached me about it you were like, can I do something with Instagram? And I, Instagram is not a language that I was immediately fluent in?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, it’s, it’s, it’s like a language, I was like, okay, I kind of understand, but why? Like, it’s hard to comment? And it’s, and, the thing that really pissed me off, of course, was originally, originally, Instagram was on iPhones only, and I was like, well, fine, I’ll take my Android cooties and I’ll go somewhere else, and then, like, when it came on Android all, all the iPhone people were like, oh, no, they’re going to dirty our beautiful place! Now I’ve come to really like Instagram for myself, and on my own handle I just post pictures that I take every day, which reminds me to sort of slow down and observe what I’m doing each day, but with books and the @smartbitches Instagram, you do a whole bunch of different things. What are some of the things you do with our Instagram?

Amanda: We do giveaways, which are insanely popular. I usually try to take photos of the book mail that we get, because sometimes there’s, like, a nice little arrangement of items that come with a book or a book in its finished form looks really beautiful, so I want to take photos of that. I feel like those are the main things that we usually do. If we’re at events like RT or RWA, we’ll post photos there because people are following, like, a hashtag for the event, so that’s really helpful to kind of, I don’t know, find people who are also doing the thing you’re doing at an event. I would say those are the three main things that I slap up there on the Instagram account.

Sarah: Ryanne –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Ryanne, what about you? What are some of the things that you do on the, the Berkley Instagram? I have to say – actually, first, Amanda mentioned book mail? The teacup –

Ryanne: Uh-huh.

Sarah: – the teacup with A Conspiracy in Belgravia is still the nicest piece of book mail I have ever received. Like, I still open my cabinet, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, that’s mine! Ee! So thank you for that, whoever – was that your idea? That was brilliant! So brilliant.

Ryanne: It was, it was definitely, like, more marketing’s idea, but it was definitely the prettiest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s, it’s, so, I’m so glad you guys enjoyed it, but –

Sarah: Oh, it’s gorgeous. Now, your Instagram for Berkley is really beautiful. You do a lot of gorgeous pictures, and we have a whole bunch, Amanda and I talked yesterday about all the questions we want to ask you about the actual pictures that you’re taking?

Ryanne: Okay.

Sarah: But my, my first question is, what are the things that you post on Instagram, and why Instagram for books?

Ryanne: So, I think Instagram has sort of become this, like, way of showing off your lifestyle, which is kind of cool, but it’s, I think it’s really given voice, or books more of a voice. It’s, like, cool to read now, and it’s cool to show what you’re reading, and, you know, as someone who, like, prefers physical copies, it’s nice to see that people are still reading them and that people are still showing them off.

Sarah: It’s interesting that you talk about how people want to show what they’re reading and it’s cool to be reading. I completely agree. It’s, when you put it that way, it makes sense. Initially, I was sort of like, okay, but reading is sort of like a solitary, insular thing. How am I going to take a picture of reading? And yet, that’s what you do!

Ryanne: Yeah! So, honestly, a lot of it was trial and error at first because, like, I was never, like, a photographer. Like, I literally, everything is taken on my iPhone, sometimes on an iPad, so I never considered myself, like, savvy in the ways of photography, but I think as Instagram has gotten more popular, like, everyone’s sort of like an amateur photographer now? So I kind of, you know, was forced into learning how to, you know, play with the angles and the lighting, which I think all help. I’ve noticed that pictures that have more natural lighting or pictures that are usually straight above usually do well. I have no idea why that is, but people respond really well to that. So a lot of it was playing around, you know, with that kind of stuff at first. I mean, if you noticed the progression, you know, like, all things with practice, you just get better and better. So it definitely took me a while to figure out the whole photography thing, but, I mean, I think it’s cool because, you know, with books, like, you know, sometimes you’ll pair it with wine, and that just, like, speaks to people. All of a sudden they want to read that book with you while we’re drinking wine, and it’s kind of become, like, an online book club that people are wanting to talk about this book, or, you know, they’re wanting to converse with you about things that I know when I was growing up, I didn’t really have that. You know, I didn’t have an online community for that for sure, so I think it’s been really cool to see books take off on this, and, you know, I think the prettier the picture is, the more people respond, so that’s always incentive as well. [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s very true, and one of the things that I’ve noticed a lot about the images that you share on the Berkley Instagram is that they’re sort of aspirational. You know, everything is cozy –

Ryanne: Yeah.

Sarah: – interesting, or there’s, there’s a really good emphasis, I think, on lighting and color, and so –

Ryanne: Yeah.

Sarah: – it’s very aspirational. You see those pictures that you’re posting and kind of like, okay, I, I want to be there. I would like to be in those fuzzy socks with that book in that bed. I mean, I don’t want to be, like, in your bed; that sounds creepy?

[Laughter]

Sarah: Is that your actual, like, apartment?

Ryanne: It is my apartment!

Sarah: Okay, you need to, like, consider just hire yourself out as a decorator, ‘cause your apartment looks great! [Laughs]

Ryanne: Honestly, we stage a lot of things. My roommates both don’t work in publishing, but they feel like they do because –

[Laughter]

Sarah: They do now!

Ryanne: – because I constantly have them, like, you know, I mean, they’ll be trying to innocently eat their breakfast, and I’ll be like, hold it! Like, at a restaurant or whatever, I’ll be like, stop it.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: You need, can, you cannot touch anything until this has been taken a picture of, and, you know, same at home, you know. We’ll just be hanging out and I’ll be like, all right, can you, you know, stand far away or, like, stand above me, and, you know, they’ve, they’re good sports about it, but –

[Laughter]

Ryanne: – a lot of it’s staging, I promise. Usually it’s a mess in there. [Laughs]

Sarah: [Laughs] So, what are people in the book community – and this question is for both of you – what are people in the book community on Instagram looking for? Amanda, you mentioned giveaways, and Ryanne, you mentioned the idea that you’re sharing reading and having a book club, but what are people in the book community on Instagram looking for, and what do they respond to?

Amanda: Oh, that’s tough. For me – so, I struggle with putting up regular photos for the Instagram account, I will admit. Because I live in a Boston apartment that doesn’t get a lot of great lighting, and our lighting –

Ryanne: Struggle.

Amanda: [Laughs] I know – and the lights that we do have are so dim, they take, like, forty-five minutes to warm up to its full brightness, so it’s really hard for me to do staging, and I get super discouraged a lot of the time with trying to make a beautiful photo. But I think for me or us as a blogging community for Smart Bitches, readers love giveaways, definitely; who doesn’t like free stuff? But I feel like they also want to see what we’re reading. You know, if Elyse is curled up with her cat on the couch and she’s reading some new romantic suspense, she’ll send me a photo and I’ll post that. So because we’re a community of bloggers and we all have our own reading tastes, and sometimes we don’t end up reviewing all the books that we read, I think that people on Instagram and readers on Instagram like to see our daily reading lives and what we’re picking up and just kind of, even if it’s just sort of brief thoughts on the book, especially if it doesn’t make it into a review or some comments on the site.

Ryanne: Yeah, I, I totally agree. I think giveaways go a long way. For us, I just feel like people normally want the free stuff in it.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: But I also think there’s, the other pictures that do really well are ones that invoke some sort of connection with the audience? Usually it’s, like, very lifestyle heavy, like I was saying, with, like, the wine or, like, you know, sock Sunday. Like, something that makes them feel like they’re in the picture with you, and, you know, other things that I think people really appreciate in the Instagram community is, like, actually connecting and conversing? So I know sometimes, like, I do a lot of, like, commenting or liking on, like, other people’s photos that aren’t necessarily, like, you know, people in the industry, you know. I also comment on stuff that not, is not necessarily, like, a Berkley romance book but, like, I mean, I’m sure you guys have heard, I’m a huge fan of Krista and Becca Ritchie, so any time I see a post about that, you know, I immediately jump in with, like, this was so good! I’m obsessed! And it just starts the conversation, gets people intrigued, and I think they appreciate that! I think they become more vocal on our page because of it, because they feel, kindred spirits, they feel like a friend, which is really cool.

Amanda: I definitely agree that commenting and engaging with people who leave comments on –

Ryanne: Yes.

Amanda: – your photos is super important, because they want to, I feel like they want to feel you’re not just shoving photos in their face. Like, you want to start –

Ryanne: Right.

Amanda: – a dialogue, you, you want to encourage engagement between the photo and the people who are looking at it and the person who’s taking it.

Ryanne: Right.

Sarah: So it’s not just coming at Instagram like a publicist, like, Here Are Books I Need You To Know About And Sex! Boom!

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, it’s not just a broadcast; it’s also coming at the community as a reader and talking about books both from the angle of, I work in a publishing house so I got all these free books and they’re super cool looking, and also I am also a reader, and I like books a lot. I wouldn’t do this job if I didn’t really like books. So that dual angle, that, that, the, the, both sides of that approach work really well to generate a response. Is that right?

Ryanne: Exactly.

Sarah: One thing, one thing I hear people say a lot is, social media doesn’t sell books? Now, I find that ludicrous, and I wanted to know if you’d ever heard anyone say that, or have people stopped saying that?

Ryanne: Honestly, I think it depends on who you’re talking to?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: I just think social media is such a younger generation. So, like, for me, I get all my books based off, like, mostly what I’m seeing on Instagram or, like, what I see on, like, Goodreads. Like, what I’m seeing on these social environments? Not really, like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Ryanne: – on Amazon or, like, at the bookstore. Like, I’m looking to see what people are recommending to me, their honest opinions, so I feel like in that respect, I would say social media does sell books because –

Sarah: It sells books to you! [Laughs]

Ryanne: To me, yeah, but I’m also, you know, like, maybe, like, people who are older in the industry, this is a relatively new thing, they don’t really see it that way. But I think so, from my point of view.

Sarah: Oh, it definitely works for me, and I, I think I qualify as an old.

Ryanne: [Laughs] No!

Sarah: I’m pretty ancient.

Amanda: Instagram is free. You might have to buy, like, the little props or whatever, but it doesn’t cost anything to put a photo up and have thousands of people see it, which is something that I like.

Ryanne: Right. And to get people talking about that book. Like, sometimes something’s everywhere, you know; that’s a free, as a publicity stand-, you know, from publicity standpoint, that’s just free! You know, people are just talking about it; it’s just another outlet to talk about it.

Sarah: So, what are your goals when it comes to creating a picture? And I have a bunch of specific questions about that that Amanda was like, we have to ask her all of these things! I need to know!

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Sarah: So prepare!

Ryanne: Okay.

Sarah: What, when you’re creating a shot or you’ve noticed a shot – and I definitely notice, the more that I think about my day as, okay, I want to take a picture of one thing per day, I look at the way things look, and I pay attention to the light and the colors and things. Like, right now, there’s, like, one leaf per tree that’s turning a different color, and I’m like, this is awesome! This is going to be the best picture! So I notice more. What are your goals when you are creating a picture for Instagram? Like, what are the goals that you have for those images?

Ryanne: I definitely think, I can’t emphasize enough the lighting.

Sarah: Oh, yeah, I know! [Laughs]

Ryanne: So, yeah. So, Tue-, Wednesday – God, what day is today? – I think Wednesday, it was super rainy in New York, and I had been away on vacation and had been slacking with the Instagram, and I was going to come in first thing and take a photo, and then it was, like, miserable outside, and you couldn’t see anything, nothing looked good, and I feel like readers don’t really respond, or your audience doesn’t really respond when the lighting’s not great, so I just kind of scratched it for that day, so I was like, we’re just going to have to pick back up tomorrow. So, lighting is definitely a goal I have. I usually try and do it, you know, in the mornings or, like, afternoon, like, you know, lunch time, when it’s the better lighting. I also try and make, try and make the picture not every one look the same, so if I have a lot where it’s like, you know, coffee and the book from straight on, I try and, you know, have an open book one the next day or do something interesting with spines, just to keep people interested and to keep, you know, their eye, like, they’re not always expecting the same thing from us. But I know that there are other accounts where, you know, everything’s the same, so, perhaps that’s not helpful, but that’s how I do it anyways! [Laughs] I try and make things, shake it up a little for our audience.

Sarah: Very cool. Amanda, did you have some questions you wanted to ask?

Amanda: Yeah! So I’m curious, and like with any good selfie, you probably take forty horrible photos before you get the one selfie – [laughs] –

Ryanne: Uh-huh.

Amanda: – where you look amazing in it?

Sarah: Wait, you’ve actually taken a good selfie? I have never once in my life –

Amanda: It takes practice! You’ve got to know –

Sarah: I –

Amanda: – the good side of your face.

Sarah: Okay, I, I –

Ryanne: And forty tries.

Sarah: – I do not have a good side of my face. I’m really good at getting pictures of my kids. Me? No, nonono.

Amanda: So, how many photos would you say you take before, like, this is it! This is the one; I can stop now?

[Laughter]

Ryanne: You guys, it’s actually insane how many I take. Like, a good day, it’s, like, ten, and, honestly, it’s, like, the same freaking picture. I’ll run it by my friend at work and like, Danielle, what do you think of this one? She’s like, they’re all the same, Ryanne. You’re crazy. But, like, I feel like they all look different?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: I mean, sometimes it’s even more if I feel like the angle’s not right, and then also I’m, you know, horrified, I’m so terrified to delete any of them, so they stay on my phone. It’s just all books on there, nothing else, and, like, this’ll be from years ago, you know, and I’ll just, I still have them. I’m terrified to delete them; what if I need them for something?

Amanda: There’s going to be a lot of, ma’am, you have two thousand photos of – [laughs] –

Ryanne: Oh, it’s on the cloud. It is on my personal cloud now, so, hopefully they’ll stick around.

Amanda: You also use some props that are not necessarily like wine or coffee. You’ll have flowers or, like, little items. I think for, like, a Halloween book you had cute little cut-out bats and stuff like that.

Ryanne: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Now, is most of this stuff things that you just have lying around, like lipstick and jewelry, or sometimes do you go on, like, little shopping trips to Michaels or Jo-Ann Fabrics to pick up bits and pieces?

Ryanne: Oh, that’s definitely, there’s definitely an Instagram budget happening here.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: Like, I’ll, I’ll literally be – I mean, you guys know Erin, my boss – I’ll be like, Erin, I’ve got to, I’ll be out for the afternoon; I’m going Instagram shopping, and it sounds so dumb, but I’ll stock up for a season, you know. I personally like Paper Source and also anything from T. J. Maxx, but, yes, there’s definitely, it’s not all from my apartment, jewelry, and makeup. Actually, the picture yesterday that I took with, like, a purse and, I forget, there was lipstick and a, and a wi-, or a coffee cup. I literally scrounged the office for those belongings. Like –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Listen, I’m really not stealing your bag; I’m just borrowing it.

Ryanne: I was like, who here has red lipstick? I need to take a picture.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: So, it’s definitely not as glamorous, perhaps, as it comes out, but I don’t own all those things. I go out and get some of those things for sure, just ‘cause they’re fun. You know, anything for the Insta.

Amanda: Do you guys have, like, a little photo studio in-office for any other, like, staged photos? ‘Cause I, what I do for my cocktails, and it’s so awful, and I’m glad I get to do it during the day when my roommates aren’t home –

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Amanda: – but, like, I’ll set up a backdrop with, like, tissue paper, and I’ve got, like, one lamp on one side, but, like, the outlet doesn’t reach all the way, so I have to hold the other lamp with my hand while I’m trying to take the photo on my phone. It is the jankiest setup.

[Laughter]

Amanda: But it’s what I have to do! But you do a lot of natural lighting, but do you have stuff in the office in case, like, the weather might not be that great and you want to just take a photo inside?

Ryanne: So, kind of. We have an Instagram room in the sense that is an abandoned office, and –

Sarah: [Laughs] I was going to say, lighting in an office is never all that flattering.

Ryanne: Well, so this one is a nicer office; I can’t believe we haven’t been kicked out of it yet. It’s pretty huge, and it has, it’s all windows on the one side. As –

Sarah: Oh, dude, how is that office available? [Laughs]

Ryanne: I know. That’s what I’m saying, and we just keep our, you know, Instagram props in there. Like, there’re, like, fake tables in there and, like, you know, fake backgrounds in there. But, yeah, we have a room where if I’m going to take something in the office there’re props and, like, fake backgrounds that are in there that I use sometimes. I definitely feel your pain, Amanda, about being at home. I too have that problem. I’ll turn on every light in my apartment and, like – ‘cause we have a bar cart that I try and utilize sometimes. Bless my roommate for buying it. She didn’t buy it for me, but it feels like she did. [Laughs] But same deal; like, I’ll have every single light turned on, you know. I’ll try and, like, you know, my roommate’ll be standing one way to, like, block the shadow. It’s definitely a group effort at my, at my home. But, yeah, we, I guess to answer your question, we do have stuff here. We used to have, like, professional, like the design team room? But they’ve recently moved floors, and I haven’t tracked them down yet.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: ‘Cause they have really good, like, lamp lighting happening there, so – I’m sure I’ll reach out to them soon.

Amanda: I think, I have one final question off the top of my head. I’m sure Sarah has a list that we brainstormed yesterday.

Sarah: Of course I have a list! What kind of question is that?

Amanda: But I have very strong opinions about hashtags. I – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yes, I, I love this question! [Laughs]

Ryanne: Okay! Okay.

Amanda: I hate using them so much.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I hate them! And for me, I just think, like, having your cute caption or whatever and then being hit with a wall of hashtags after that just makes me feel so tacky, but I know –

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Amanda: Like, I won’t do it on my personal Instagram. The only time I use hashtags is for my cat.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: Right. Right, right, right. Priorities.

Amanda: Yeah, but I also can see their benefit, because if people are tracking certain hashtags to find other community members like #readersofinstagram or #bookmail, I understand that it can be helpful. So, one – it’s a two-part question – what are your feelings on hashtags? And two, for the book community, what hashtags do you think are important or that people are looking at or if people want to build up their, their book Instagram, what’s a good way to kind of get people interested in their account using important hashtags?

Ryanne: Ooh, that is a good question. Personally, I wasn’t a huge fan of hashtags either. It just felt very, like, you know –

Amanda: Like, promotional.

Ryanne: – weird.

Amanda: Like, it’s –

Ryanne: Right. Like #notanad, you know. Like, of course it’s not an ad. Like, I mean, that’s why I think it feels weird on my personal one, you know? Just ‘cause, it just feels weird to me. I use them now sometimes, but only, like, two or three if I have something extra punny to say.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: But, as far as Berkley Romance goes, I have felt that it’s useful in building the community and getting more people to look at your posts. I used to do, put, I used to put way too much time into this and come up with, like, you know, funny puns or, like, like, cute things to say, but not like, you know, defeats the whole purpose of the hashtag. You’d click on it, and it’d be, like, my one hashtag; I’m the only person who’s used that, because I thought it was funny. But now I definitely do more general ones.

Sarah: Yeah.

Ryanne: Like, if you’re first starting out, I would definitely recommend any of the books ones, like just #books or #biobliophile. Hashtag –

Sarah: #bookstagram!

Ryanne: #bookstagram, #bookworm, #vscobooks. Those are all good ones, and honestly, I got a lot when I was first starting out from other people’s Instagram accounts? I would just kind of see what they were hashtagging. Of course now a lot of the bigger ones don’t really need them, so they don’t. Like the people with, like, a hundred thousand followers, craziness. Yeah! I would just maybe, if you’re first starting out, see kind of what other people are doing, especially those general ones, and sort of incorporate it into your own, but I always put a little personality in there too, one or two that are just fun, just fun for me.

Sarah: My struggle is how many, how many hashtags exist for the same topic?

Ryanne: Right.

Sarah: Like, #cat, #cats, #catstagram, #catsofinstagram, #catsoninstagram, #catgram. Like –

Amanda: Then there’s, like, supposed to be –

Sarah: – I’m, okay, (a) –

Amanda: – breed hashtags, like my cat’s a Maine Coon mix, and there’s a hashtag for that, so – [laughs] –

Sarah: Like, my, my two dogs –

Ryanne: Right.

Sarah: – are half Cavalier, half Cocker and half Cocker Spaniel, half Pointer, and there are already hashtags for that.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: And I’m like, they’re –

Ryanne: I get, I’m getting a sense –

Sarah: – they’re nuts!

Ryanne: – of your guys’, what you guys search for on Instagram; totally getting the sense here.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah. Well, what’s weird is, you type a hashtag and when you start typing letters, you get all these other, like, suggestions? And I’m like what the hell –

Ryanne: Yeah.

Sarah: – even is that? [Laughs]

Ryanne: Yeah. Well, you –

Sarah: ‘Cause if you type #boo-, you’ll get #boobs and #books, so you have to be careful.

Ryanne: [Laughs] You do! You do have to be careful. I pay more attention to, like, what’s trending. I think it’s really helpful for, like, finding authors and stuff too, in that regard. Like, I always make sure to hashtag, like, the author’s name or the title just ‘cause, like, then you can see what other people are posting about.

Amanda: And it’s also helpful in Instagram, when you start typing a hashtag, it’ll tell you how many posts have been tagged with that hashtag, so you can kind of see what’s more popular versus, like, #cats versus #catsofinstagram –

Ryanne: Right.

Amanda: – or whether #award should be plural or not. So I like looking at those just because, you know, I’m obsessed with that -[laughs]

Ryanne: I do too. I also think it’s good too if you’re, like, we did a photo challenge and, back in February, and we –

Sarah: That was really well done, by the way; that was really cool.

Ryanne: Thank you! It was definitely hard to do, like, every single day of my life, Instagramming –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: – but it was fun! It was super fun, and it was cool because we did a hashtag, so I could see all the other people who were, like, following us or, you know, tagging their own books. So definitely I recommend, if you’re first starting out, to think about creating a challenge or following other challenges and using a hashtag. Same with giveaways: I’ve noticed those do better too when there’s a hashtag, you know, that people can, you know, regram with and things like that.

Sarah: So as an Instagramming person who’s not only working on Instagram professionally, but also you have a personal one, what do you like to see on Instagram? What are your favorite things to, to look at?

Ryanne: On my personal one, I still follow tons of Bookstagram-ers. Like I said, that’s how I kind of get my book recommendations? I mean, I also follow far too many Bachelor contestants.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: Like, it’s just ridiculous. It’s really, that’s honestly embarrassing to say to you guys, but I do. [Laughs]

Sarah: We recap both shows. Elyse does a weekly recap where she’s, like, really not sober by the end of it, so don’t worry.

Ryanne: But, yeah, I like to do that. I follow a lot of lifestyle people, so, like, people who do Fashion New York, just so I can see how much I don’t dress well here and –

[Laughter]

Ryanne: But, yeah, I think I definitely follow more lifestyle type things; like, if you have a pretty account, I’ll follow you. I’ll give you a follow, you know.

Sarah: Amanda, what about you? What do you look for on Instagram when you’re looking for more accounts to follow?

Amanda: Are you talking about my personal Instagram – [laughs] – or, or the site?

Sarah: Both! I mean, you don’t have to answer. If your personal Instagram is, like, all nipples and porn –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – that’s fine, but you don’t have to talk about it on the podcast if you don’t want to.

Amanda: My personal Instagram is mainly food.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Because I eat a lot, and I love food.

Ryanne: Oh, I have that too. I have that one.

Amanda: So I also follow a lot of, for me personally, local restaurants.

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Amanda: Well, there’s this one that I can’t remember, so, like, like, @bostonfoodjournal or something, where they take photos of food from different restaurants in the area, so I have a growing list of restaurants I want to eat at based on the pretty food photos I see. I also follow a lot of animal accounts? So, there’s @thedogist, which is amazing. [Laughs]

Ryanne: I follow them too!

Amanda: They’re so –

Ryanne: So fun!

Amanda: – it’s so cute and awesome.

Sarah: I have to add this! I don’t have this one!

Ryanne: Also, The Dogist, you know, he’s set up in the West Village, where our offices are located.

Amanda: Oh, my gosh!

Ryanne: So I’m constantly on the hunt for him. I’m like, oh, there’s a dog; is The Dogist nearby? Like –

Amanda: I just like the little captions. Another animal –

Ryanne: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – one I follow is called @littleirishmen, and –

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: – they have two dogs. One is an Irish Wolfhound, and the other is an Irish Terrier, so –

Zeb: Woof, woof, woof!

Sarah: Speaking of dogs, right on cue!

Zeb: Woof!

Sarah: There’s my dog.

Amanda: And there’s such a huge size difference between the two of them, ‘cause Irish Wolfhounds are humongous.

Ryanne: Do you guys follow @hotdudesreading?

Amanda: Yes, I do.

Ryanne: That’s a good one.

Amanda: I think it’s started –

Ryanne: That’s a good one.

Amanda: – a huge wave of, like, I follow ones like hot dudes with wine, @hotdudeswithcats, hot dudes with coffee.

Ryanne: Follow all the hot dudes.

Amanda: Yeah. Essentially, that’s what I follow. On our blog Instagram, I obviously follow a lot of publishers and a lot of authors, but mainly it’s just publishers and authors and then @therippedbodice, ‘cause they always have some good stuff going on.

Ryanne: And that dog on there –

Amanda: Oh, Fitz?

Ryanne: He’s the cutest thing –

Sarah: Fitzwilliam Waffles?

Ryanne: – I’ve ever seen. Shout-out to Fitz.

Amanda: Sometimes Sarah will get on the Instagram account, and I’m like, why are we –

Sarah: Hear, you can hear from her voice how well that goes.

Amanda: I was like, no, I was like, why are we following this person? And, like, one time I got on, I was like, why is the feed nothing but photos of Ruby Rose?

Sarah: [Laughs] That was my fault!

Amanda: There’s, like, nothing but that.

Sarah: I logged on, and I went to Instagram, and I followed her, or followed something having to do with her, and I thought I was logged in on my personal account, and I was logged in on @smartbitches.

[Laughter]

Sarah: And so, Amanda comes in, she’s like, what is happening right now?

Amanda: Why are we – ? I mean, not that there’s anything wrong with Ruby Rose, she’s very attractive, but I was like, why? I was like, I didn’t do this! When – [laughs] – like, why –

Sarah: Surprise! It was my old boss.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Just hitting random buttons.

Sarah: Yes. Yes, we now follow, we now follow actresses. It’s very important. [Laughs]

Ryanne: Right.

Sarah: So, Ryanne, what, what do you use for, do you schedule posts? Do you have a routine that you follow, or is it sort of like, oh, yeah, I’ve got to put something up on the Instagram; let me take care of that?

Ryanne: So, I make, usually I make a schedule at the beg-, well, at the end of the month for the next upcoming month, and it’s usually stuff we have in the works. I also look at random holidays, like National Grilled Cheese Day, what have you; you know, important stuff like that.

Sarah: It’s a crucial, crucial event.

Ryanne: Right. And include them on the calendar, just in case. Like, for example, if it was National Grilled Cheese Day, there’s probably a hashtag and millions of people all of a sudden deciding they love grilled cheeses, so I’d probably jump on that train. And, yeah, so I schedule it about a month out. It’s, it’s honestly very up in the air. I make the schedule and then, you know, one of our authors will be featured in Cosmo, or one of them will have, you know, a really great review on Smart Bitches, and –

Sarah: Yay!

Ryanne: – you know, we’ll have to, you know, rearrange some things to, so that maybe that book is featured that day. I love that Instagram now does, like, links, because the Instagram Story has become super important, I think.

Sarah: And you know, I really don’t like Instagram Stories!

Amanda: I don’t either.

Ryanne: Oh, I love it.

Sarah: Like you do all that work –

Amanda: Right?

Sarah: – and then they disappear!

Ryanne: I love it.

Sarah: Oh, my gosh, please tell me why you like it, because I am, I am clearly missing the boat here.

Ryanne: I think with Instagram, as a rule of thumb, you should usually post, like, once a day, maybe twice, like, if you’re super ambitious, but I think people generally like to just hear from you like once a day? And for your own sanity, that’s, that’s best. But I think the Instagram Story’s really cool, ‘cause you can promote even more books, or you can talk about more things. Sometimes I’ll pose a question like, who out here is a Madeline Hunter fan? Just so I can, like, get a sense of, like, maybe who would read, you know, this new historical romance we have coming up. It’s fun; you know, sometimes I’ll post, you know, outtakes from whatever picture I took that day and be like, what’s your favorite New Adult romance? Message me. And then it’s just cool, ‘cause you get to talk to people, bring up books. It gives more opportunity for conversation, I think, and it’s also, like, a cool way to show off, you know, some of our hits, you know, like I was saying, reviews, things like that, and, you know, it disappears within twenty-four hours, so you can start anew! It is a lot of work, I will say that, especially if you’re trying to do something designed, but I just, I love it. I think it’s so fun, and, like, if you mess up, like, whatever! It’s gone in twenty-four hours; hopefully no one saw it.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That does take the pressure off, doesn’t it? Like, well, I don’t have to worry about it, ‘cause it’s not sticking around forever.

Ryanne: Yeah. [Laughs]

Amanda: Now, earlier you mentioned VSCO, which is, like, a photo app.

Ryanne: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Are there any other applications or things that you use, aside from the Instagram filters and stuff like that and being able to mess with those, that you use in terms of taking photos or editing them?

Ryanne: Oh, girl, do I.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: So, I actually never edit anything on Instagram anymore. I do all my editing on VSCO, which is a photo editing app kind of similar to Photoshop, but on your phone. I also have the Photoshop app on my phone. So I usually do, like, the editing of the picture on there, just ‘cause I think it’s a bit more subtle than, like, the filters that are on Instagram, though I do use those sometimes, after I’ve already filtered it. You know, it’s all about the filter.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Ryanne: And then – hold on; let me see what’s on this phone. I also use, like, No Crop, which is an Ins-, another Instagram app, Layout; both of those are, you know, if you’re doing a pitch stick, a pic stitch, I really like Layout, because it’ll give you, like, it won’t distort the picture, and you can – those are when you have a bunch of pictures in the one frame, and it’s nice ‘cause it doesn’t distort, like, the length or anything like that, so I like that one.

Amanda: And what, what I like about Layout, too, is that you can pick different arrangements with how many photos you have. Like, if you have three, you can choose –

Ryanne: Yes.

Amanda: – like, one big one and two small ones, or three all the same size.

Ryanne: Yes. Yeah, I love that one. I also like No Crop and Fonto, which I haven’t used lately, but it, you can put, like, basically, you can just write text on your image, or I like to put emojis on them, ‘cause those are fun. What’s the other one I use? Oh, Facetune?

Amanda: [Laughs] What is that?

Ryanne: Which is bas- – [laughs] – this is embarrassing to say, but it is, like, what people do to, like, make themselves look cuter in pictures. Like, you can, like, play with your face and, like, make stuff like, you know, your chin go away or, like, you know, whatever, like, any imperfection, but I like to use it just to, like, clean up the picture. Like, if there’s anything like if I accidentally have, like, a straw stem in there or, like, you can see my reflection taking the picture; just to clean it up. I don’t use it all the time, but I do use it sometimes.

Amanda: It’s not a bad idea. Sometimes I get, like, a glare if there, the –

Ryanne: Yeah!

Amanda: – the cover’s really shiny.

Ryanne: It’ll smooth that out! Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I might have to download a bunch of those.

Ryanne: Yeah, it’ll smooth that out.

Amanda: I have, right now, I have Boomerang, which I’m obsessed with.

Ryanne: Yep. I love Boomerang.

Amanda: [Laughs] And then I have, like, Repost for that sort of thing. Do you do, I haven’t noticed that you do a lot of reposting, but I have seen you guys do some really cool collages of other bloggers –

Ryanne: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – taking photos of, like, a specific book.

Ryanne: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I’m really curious about that. Like, when you do that, one, saving photos from Instagram can be a pain in the butt –

Ryanne: [Laughs]

Amanda: – I found, ‘cause once I find, like, one way, it kind of like disappears, and now I have to find a new way.

Ryanne: Yeah.

Amanda: But when you grab these photos, do you usually be like, hey, bloggers, can we nick this photo for our collage?

Ryanne: So, that’s an interesting question. I definitely in the beginning was really tentative, just ‘cause, like, I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes or, like, have – but I’ve noticed that people don’t care?

Amanda: Yeah.

Ryanne: Like, 9.9 times out of 10, they’re like, yes! Go for it! I’m so honored! So I’ve started not asking, but I do make sure everyone knows that this is their picture. You know, I tag them in and I say Regram, like, photo credit; like, I make sure it’s not, people don’t think it’s our photo.

Amanda: If you –

Ryanne: I give them all the credit.

Amanda: Yeah, if you tag them, they’re usually fine, ‘cause then it can lead to, like, them getting, you know, an influx of followers.

Ryanne: Some more followers, yeah. Yeah, I’m not, I like doing that versus the Repost, just because I think it looks cleaner, but that’s personal preference? I know a lot of people use Repost.

Amanda: Are there any Instagram accounts that you follow as part of Berkley that you just love in terms of composition? I know some have, like, a theme. I can’t remember the woman I follow, but she has all these different socks, and she pairs, like, the socks with the book she’s reading, but I think it’s, she does more YA I want to say.

Ryanne: Mm, okay.

Amanda: But who do you love to follow in terms of book Instagrammers?

Ryanne: As far as aesthetic goes, I love, love, love @sweptawaybybooks. The girl that runs that account is super sweet. I’ve actually met her before, but she’s been, like, long time, like, I was like, you are killing the game! She has, like, hundreds, like, tons of followers; I can’t even put a number to it. But I think she just does a really good job of the lifestyle thing, which is why I like it. I also really like @laceybooklovers? I don’t know if you guys follow her. Her aesthetic is really clean; it’s very, you know, white and neutral, but then the cover just seems to pop because of that, of whatever book she has. I’m trying to think of who else I really, really like.

Amanda: I have, like, the app open on my phone –

Ryanne: There’s so many!

Amanda: – and I’m just, like, typing. [Laughs]

Ryanne: I know, me too! I really like @hopelessbooklover_. She does a lot of, like, really good photography that’s always, and she’s always got interesting angles, which makes me think about how I take pictures differently. I also really like @peacelovebooksxo. She has the most adorable dog that’s featured in all of her photos, and I want it. [Laughs] But –

Amanda: Well, the dog is super cute. [Laughs]

Ryanne: Yeah, I mean, I can – right? I just tend to follow people who either have a very – on @berkleyromance – who either have a very clean aesthetic, or they make me, like, really interested in the picture, like I feel connected to it – the lifestyle thing again. I’m also really intrigued by anyone who can do, like, a book bento, you know, the placement with the books? I feel like I struggle with that, so anyone who can do that and it looks flawless, I follow them. Congratulations, hats off, like, can’t do it.

Sarah: What was your favorite picture to compose? When you were putting up, when you were composing a shot, was there one that you were really excited about, that you were really pleased with how it came out?

Ryanne: Yes. In terms – I’m sure there’s more, but the one I can really think of was a couple weeks back. We did one for The Bachelorette finale with one of our spring books called The Wedding Date, and I just held up the book. It’s got a super cute cover, very, like, fun and flirty, and I held that up, like, covering my face and then held a glass of rosé, and I was just in my bed with socks on, but I remember the lighting was really bad that day. It was like the, we were losing the light, it was dark, I hadn’t taken a picture yet, my roommate was, like, on her knees, like, taking pictures, like, you know, like, on top of the bed trying to get, like, she was everywhere.

Sarah: That was one of my questions! I was trying to figure out, like, all right, so that hand’s holding the wine, and that hand’s holding the book. Who’s taking this picture? Does she have a selfie stick on the ceiling?

Ryanne: No, no, no, she was standing afar taking it, and I remember there was, this was one where we went through so many, and I was like, no. This isn’t coming out right.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ryanne: I look bad; the book looks bad. You know, I was like, we’ve got to get this right, and I remember when it came out I was, I was just so excited. I thought it was so cute that people would really respond, and we did get a decent amount of likes and comments on it, which was exciting, ‘cause I felt like, you know, I was right, you know, about the picture, but that was one where we struggled, and I remember being like, should we just give up?

[Laughter]

Ryanne: ‘Cause, you know, I could tell my roommate was like, yes, we should give up.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Her knees were probably starting to hurt. [Laughs]

Ryanne: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: Have there been books where you’re in a meeting or you’re working on a, future titles, and you see a cover coming out, and you’re like, oh, that’s going to look so good on Instagram? Just get out of my way?

Ryanne: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. You know, I always love a good man-chest-y one –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Ryanne: – but – ‘cause who doesn’t? – but I also like when they’re a little different, you know, not as expected for romance. I think the readers respond to it. Like, personally, I love usually New Adult romance covers, ‘cause they’re, they skew more YA looking, I think? And I really like those. Usually it’s the coloring. When I see it with the color, like The Wedding Date has a bold red color. Jayne Ann Krentz had one, Secret Sisters, where this girl is, like, running away in, like, a red coat, and I was, like, and the picture – I think it’s the colors; they pop. But, yeah, I definitely get excited about certain covers more than others, especially if they’re just a little bit different than what’s expected; I think people pay attention more. That’s personally what I think; I don’t have numbers to back that up, but – [laughs]

Sarah: So this is a somewhat related question: has there been a response to a picture you’ve posted that really surprised you?

Ryanne: Yeah! It happens sometimes. I’m trying to see – let’s look. I’m looking at my account right now to see if there’re any that really surprised me. I mean, I would say in the opposite, there’ll be some that I’ll take a picture of, and I think it’s really going to do well. It’s, you know, a popular author, the, like, I think the setting is done really well, and for whatever reason, maybe it’s the timing, maybe it’s the day, it just doesn’t do very well? And there are others, like recently I took one of Christine Feehan just at lunch. Like, it was totally a last-minute thing. I was at lunch with some coworkers, and I brought a book just to take a picture, and that one got a ton of likes, and I was so surprised, ‘cause I’ve taken lunch ones before, and they’ve just done, like, okay, and so I was so surprised that that one took off.

Amanda: Well, there it is; that lunch looks amazing.

Ryanne: Oh, yeah. The food was really helping.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: Not that good, not that Christine Feehan doesn’t do enough, but, you know, always helps with food, but, yeah, there are definitely times that I’m surprised. It’s definitely a lot of experimentation. A lot of experimentation, I would say. [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, I mean, that’s part of the creative process, right? You figuring out what works, what gets a response, and what, what fits the goals that you have, even if the goal is, I want more people to enjoy books, which is a perfectly adequate goal in, like, all things.

Ryanne: Right.

Sarah: Okay, so I always ask this question: what are you reading, and what would you like to tell readers about? The floor is yours: as a publicist, have at it! I’m going to, like, go make lunch –

Ryanne: Okay.

Sarah: – and then I’ll come back.

[Laughter]

Ryanne: I was going to say, I have a couple; I hope that’s okay.

Sarah: We fully expected that and we’re anticipating it. Hang on, hang on!

[Laughter; camera shutter clicks]

Sarah: Okay, I got to use my sound effect! Go ahead! [Laughs]

Ryanne: So, two that I’m really excited about personally through, like, with Berkley Romance is Down by Contact by Santino Hassell. It’s the sequel to Illegal Contact, which just came out in August. It’s a male/male romance set in the NFL football scene. It’s so good. Santino’s writing is always amazing. He does really gritty heroes very well. The angst is there for sure. I just started it, so I can’t say too much about it, but it’s about his friend Simeon, though I want to call him Simon, who is an out-and-proud gay man who sort of falls for someone on the opposite team who isn’t aware that he is bisexual yet, until he meets him? So it’s a very, very good so far. I’ll have to keep you guys updated.

As far as personal reading goes, I, this book that I recommended this summer, another male/male, it’s Damaged Like Us by Krista and Becca Ritchie, ‘cause as I said before, I am a fangirl. [Laughs] But it’s super good. They always just do such a large cast of characters so well; the banter is amazing. I really enjoyed that one.

And then my current read is actually inspired by y’all’s Instagram account: Radiance by Grace Draven. I just started it yesterday.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, how cool!

Ryanne: ‘Cause I, ‘cause I saw it on y’all’s Instagram account, and I was like, oh, this is good! But I like it so far; the banter’s hilarious! But, yeah, thanks, you guys! That was totally you.

Amanda: I hope you like it. We did, like, an awesome book club chat for it, and I think the author came, Grace; I think she popped in.

Sarah: Yes. Grace came, and, like, it was a really fun conversation. I still think about that, ‘cause she said really interesting things about magic: that magic has rules and also has consequences, which I think is very important when you’re writing a world like that?

Amanda: And I also loved how –

Ryanne: Yeah.

Amanda: – they think of each other as physically ugly. So – [laughs]

Ryanne: Yes! They’re so repulsed! I love it!

[Laughter]

Amanda: Like, gosh!

Ryanne: And they’re into it though!

Sarah: Yes! They’re like, okay, you completely freak me out, but this is all right. It’s okay.

Ryanne: I saw your little, the – ‘cause I’d been looking for a fantasy read, and I saw it, and I looked – [laughs] – looked up all the reviews, and it was like, they hate each other, and I was like, oh, I’m into it, but then I was like, oh, they’re physically disgusted by one another, I see. So that’s all you know how much like it. [Laughs]

[music]

Sarah: And that is all for this week’s episode. Thank you to Ryanne for hanging out with us and telling us so much about how Instagram works for you personally and professionally. If you are thinking, I need to try all these apps; I need to find all these things! Excellent: I have links to all of them. I will have links to the feeds we talked about, the apps and programs that work to improve the photos, and I’ll have links to Amanda’s feed, my feed, Smart Bitches, and Ryanne so you can check out our Instagram feed.

And if you have an Instagram feed or if you’ve purchased a book because of Instagram, I’m super curious about that. Email me! I want to hear about it! [email protected] or Sarah, S-A-R-A-H at smartbitchestrashybooks.com [[email protected]], your choice! Or leave a voicemail at 1-201-371-3272. You can also record a voicemail and email it to me, or voice memo. So it’d be voice-memo-mail or voicemail, right? Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Either way, I love hearing from you, so definitely, definitely let me know what you think!

This week’s episode is brought to you by His Perfect Partner by Priscilla Oliveras. It takes two to tango. Four-time Golden Heart finalist Priscilla Oliveras debuts with a novel that proves love is a delicate dance; all it takes is two willing partners. Professional dancer Yazmine Fernandez has left romance behind her after a bad breakup and is focusing on helping her father recover from a long illness, so she does not have time to be distracted by handsome Tomas Garcia, the father of one of her young dance students, Maria. And Tomas is too shattered by his divorce and too focused on his career to have a personal life, but Yazmine and Tomas grow closer with Maria’s help, and the rhythms of their lives fall into step, perfectly matched. It may be time for them to face the music. Warm hearted, sizzling with romantic tension, and plenty of Latin flare, Priscilla Oliveras delivers a romance readers won’t soon forget. For more information, visit kensingtonbooks.com. And thank you, Kensington, for sponsoring this month’s broadcasts.

Each episode gets a transcript, and I am transcribing older episodes because of the Patreon, so thank you! Patreon.com/SmartBitches – if you would like to support the show with a pledge, it makes a deeply appreciated difference.

You can also leave a review, recommend, subscribe; however you get your podcasts, telling another person about the show is an enormous gift for me, so thank you for that as well.

Most of all, thank you for listening, whether you’re working on cleaning or cleaning up after someone else – been there – or you’re dyeing wool – hello! Hi! Your, your house looks great, by the way – or, you know, walking the dogs, which is what I do when I listen to podcasts, I very much appreciate that you hang out with me each week.

Our music – I love this song – is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is a track called “Percolator,” and it is by a group called The Hanuman Collective. They’re album is called Pedal Horse, and you can find it on iTunes and on some other digital sites, but not Amazon for some strange reason. I really like this song; it’s totally mellow.

All of the books that we talked about I will link to in the podcast entry, as well as all of the feeds, so do not worry.

And now it’s time for my terrible joke. Are you ready? Here we go, bad joke:

Did you hear about the man who bought a used dictionary online and received a book with blank pages? Yeah, he has no words to describe how angry he is.

I really need my rimshot sound effect, don’t I? [oral rimshot sound effect] All right, that’s horrible! I love horrible jokes. Seriously, finding bad jokes is giving me so much joy.

So on behalf of Ryanne and Amanda and myself and Orville, who has just joined me on my desk because he figured out that it is time to sit on the mouse pad – don’t stop my recording, you large animal. Okay, let’s try that again. On behalf of Orville, who’s now sprawled on my desk, and Ryanne and Amanda and myself and everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have an excellent weekend, and we will see you here next week.

[totally mellow music]