Bitch, Please. No, really. Please.

Book CoverSo here’s something I never expected from Bitch Magazine. Really. I’m sort of horrified and appalled and wondering if someone over there fell and hit their heads.

Bitch posted their 100 YA books for the Feminist Reader list, and of course, like any thing that is (a) a list (b) adorned with the word “feminist” and (c) on the internet, there was lots of discussion. And disagreement. And expressions of disappointment. Some didn’t like that certain books were left off, and some didn’t like the books that were selected, particularly those that were sexually violent or challenging to the reader’s emotional equilibrium. I can understand that – books are powerful things, but all the more reason to collect them in to one giant list to share with libraries and those looking for thoughtful reading material to share with young adult readers.

Then came this comment from post author Ashley McAllister:

A couple of us at the office read and re-read Sisters Red, Tender Morsels and Living Dead Girl this weekend. We’ve decided to remove these books from the list— Sisters Red because of the victim-blaming scene that was discussed earlier in this post, Tender Morsels because of the way that the book validates (by failing to critique or discuss) characters who use rape as an act of vengeance, and Living Dead Girl because of its triggering nature. We still feel that these books have merit and would not hesitate to recommend them in certain instances, but we don’t feel comfortable keeping them on this particular list.

We’ve replaced these books with Howl’s Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones, The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley and Tomorrow, When the War Began by John Marsden. Thanks to several commenters who pointed out the need to include these excellent books on our list. I’m excited to add a few more rad girls to our list and I can’t say how happy I am to know that there are WAY more than 100 young adult books out there that tackle sexism, racism, homophobia, etc… while presenting us with amazing young adult characters. Young adult lit has come a long way. We’re really excited to keep talking about feminist-friendly YA books on the blog.

So, sorry about those books that were scary or only able to be interpreted in one single way or somewhat triggering (and for fuck’s sake, “triggering?” Fucking adolescence itself is one big trigger of misery**!), and congrats to these also-ran authors who made the list because we caved to what a few people said.

**ETA: Let me clarify here, since some are questioning my position. I know what a trigger is – a seemingly unrelated experience that can immediately cause partial or full re-experience of a traumatic event for an individual. My ire here is at the idea that Bitch Magazine can identify all the triggers of all the potentially traumatic events of a person’s life and then protect that person by removing those books that contain those elements from their list. Removing a book because it is triggering is at the least disrespectful of anyone who has survived anything because it presumes to know better that the victim herself what is and isn’t going to affect her. Every other moment of rereading an adolescent experience could be a trigger. How do you stop them all? You can’t. And it is insulting and presumptuous to try to do so.

Oh, no. They didn’t. Seriously, I am so surprised at Bitch Magazine, I don’t quite know what to do with myself except shake my head with my jaw dropped open. It’s like the perfect storm of fandom wank, only more horrifying because FOR FUCK’S SAKE it’s Bitch Magazine. I thought they printed the original recipe for all clue-filled pastries and made other publications scared of their awesomesauce.

As you can imagine, that amendment to the list did not go over well, and oh, the unholy wtfery that has been unleashed in the comments. Leading the charge of WTF? is author Scott Westerfeld, who wrote,

Let’s get this straight: You put Tender Morsels on your list without having read it, then saw a handful of outraged comments appear. So you reread Tender Morsels, swiftly and with those comments uppermost in your mind, then decided they HAD to be right.

Did you talk to anyone in the non-outraged camp first? To those feminists who originally recommended it? Did you engage in a rigorous discussion at all? Or did you just cave?

Two requests:

1) Please remove my book Uglies from the list. It’s an embarrassment to be on it.

2) Perhaps change your name to something more appropriate, like EasilyIntimidatedMedia. After all, the theme of Tender Morsels is that one must eventually leave a magical, fabricated safe haven for (sometimes brutal) reality. The theme of this blog would appear to be the exact opposite.

Bitch Media responded by saying that they “hope that even those of you who disagree with the decision to remove the books from the list understand that, as a feminist, reader-supported organization, if members of our audience contact us and tell us something that we’re recommending might be triggering for rape victims, we’re going to take that seriously. That being said, please feel free to voice your dissent here; we take that seriously also.”

So if there’s enough dissent, you’ll put the books back? Way to completely eradicate the value of the list in the first place, cave to those who shriek loudest, and bend with the remover to remove. Westerfeld is not the only author to express outrage and revulsion. Author Maureen Johnson also commented:

I was absolutely delighted to see my book, The Bermudez Triangle, on this list when it was published. I’m a fan of the magazine. But I have been incredibly disheartened to see your process for removing books. It mirrors EXACTLY the process by which book banners remove books from schools and libraries—namely, one person makes a comment, no one actually checks, book gets yanked.

You’ve removed Tender Morsels by Margo Lanagan. I think that’s a disgrace. You were right the first time, when you put it on.

Ladies, feminist media should be held to the highest standard. This kind of waffling and caving on comments is no good. Lots of people would have LOVED to use this list for educational purposes, but it’s such a mess now that no one wants near it.

I request that either you get a grip or remove me from this list. If Margo is removed, I’d like to be removed with her. And please remember that young feminists are looking up to you. When they see you so easily intimidated, so easily swayed, so eager to make concessions . . . it sets exactly the wrong example.

(As a side note, if you want to read a fantastic bit of “mansplaining” and condescending crapfiesta, there’s a comment like that in there, too. Please have flasks ready to drink with every other line.)

I honestly can’t process the whole thread, except with exclamations of “What?” “Wait, really?” “BITCH? NOooooooOOOooooOOo!” I mean, of all the publications online with Big Girl Pants and stone cold badassery on a daily basis, BITCH would pull this type of “Oh, noes, it hurt someone’s feelings, that scary scary literature?” I never thought I’d see the day when Bitch Media would be following the playbook of the Humble, Texas, Teen Lit Fest, which disinvited author Ellen Hopkins because of one librarian who didn’t like Hopkins’ books or their subject matter.

I’m shaking my head like you would not believe. As you might imagine, I’m a fan of Bitch Magazine and have been a subscriber and supporter of their not-for-profit mission and ad-free publication. I don’t always agree with them, but I usually have their back on most anything. But, oh, holy wafflepants.

Bitch, please. Don’t do shit like this.

ETA: You know how books that make A List, A Really Important List, get stickers and insignia and stuff? I have some for Bitch Media. Here, you can has them.

 

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Categorized:

Ranty McRant

Comments are Closed

  1. SylviaSybil says:

    @infinitieh

    Thank you for your explanation.  I’m relieved it’s not as bad as it originally sounded.  Not that I ever agree with rape-as-revenge, but a subconscious action is different from a conscious one.

  2. Firebirdgrrl says:

    This is disappointing-wait, no, it’s infuriating, especially for a self proclaimed feminist media group. Pointing these books out as no longer worthy of feminist young readers (by calling them triggering or inappropriate) infantilizes the readers—and scars authors who are grappling with difficult issues.
    As for trigger issues-these could have been mentioned in the list. In my own experience, if Summer of My German Soldier had been “helpfully” labeled as inappropriate or triggering for emotional and physical abuse, I never would have found the strength to survive my own and might never have understood that it was wrong and that if Patty is a good person and doesn’t deserve it…
    let’s say I’d have missed so much.

    Hell, I was pushed into seen my siblings born when I was a child and did not want to see at all—The Midwife’s Apprentice, while well crafted and skilled made me ill and terrified.

    So, there you go. Shame on you, Bitch.

    former35
    I am one of 35 former readers of Bitch.

  3. Laurel says:

    I think both sides have valid points of view here, although I lean heavily toward the “original list should stand” PoV. But I’d encourage everybody to take a step back and remember that Bitch is run by actual humans, probably not very many, and based on their reactions to the comments, they are humans who care about other people’s feelings.

    I think they blew it. PR fail. But they did not censor or state that these books should not be read. They made an error in judgment trying to do the right thing. And since they are subscribe based, it makes sense that they would pay so much attention to early negative comments.

    After reading the comment thread over there, all I can say is I would be hunkered down with the liquor and praying the storm will pass. Subscribers and authors alike lit into them like
    wolves on a caribou. They started off with a good idea, it generated some controversy, and they equivocated. I think it was naive to suppose you could name a “feminist” list in any category and not catch hell for it because it means so many different things to different people, but can’t we cut them a bit of slack?

    I’ve put my foot in more than once. That’s what Bitch did. They should have acknowledged concerns and stood their ground. I’m reserving judgment to see if they’ve learned that lesson, but I’m not willing to run them out on a rail over a well-intended mishap where they really didn’t say anything mean about anybody.

  4. Donna L says:

    I hate to see any book taken off of a list because of the reasons sited.  If a book is upsetting to someone they shouldn’t read it, but that doesn’t give them the right to say it shouldn’t be read by anyone else. 

    Two of my children suffered from PTSD and different things would trigger an event.  Some of the books they were assigned as reading were not suitable for them, but you know what?  The teachers had alternate books on the reading list they could substitue.  I never asked the school to pull the book from the recommended reading list.  The books were good books for most of the kids.

    I’m a writer, alhtough not published yet, and expect some people will find my work not to their taste.  That’s what book blurbs and reviews are for, they give you an idea what the book is about whether it is suitable for the reader.

    I hope Bitch Magazine stops caving.

  5. walkingscarlet says:

    @infinitieh:

    Then it sounds like Bitch STILL doesn’t really understand Tender Morsels. What is the “fail[ure] to critique or discuss” rape-as-vengeance? If the character didn’t do it on purpose, and she was sent off to learn to control her magic so she didn’t do things like that unconsciously, what IS their problem with the book?

    I agree that the big problem here is that Bitch edited their list. If you’re going to post a list on the internet, you have to know there’ll be a debate. (See: any list of The Best/Worst Anything of Whatever.) So either you stay out of the debate because the list itself was your contribution to the subject; or, if you do get involved, you defend your position. Bitch’s waffling suggests they didn’t have a very strong position to begin with, and if you aren’t absolutely sure what your opinion is, putting it out there in a form that’s bound to attract arguments is just a bad idea.

  6. walkingscarlet says:

    (Addendum: While I was putting that reply together, email alert informed me that several people were making some of the same points, and I meant to specifically agree with Alex and Laurel that Bitch should’ve stood behind their list.)

  7. henofthewoods says:

    A friend was raped in a truck carrying iceberg lettuce. For 35 years, she couldn’t stand the scent of iceberg. Let’s ban salad bars. [One day she didn’t mind the smell at all and she can now eat any salad green she pleases.]

    Some books hurt while you read them, and it is not the same for every reader or even each time that you read the same book. Giving people warnings about what type of material they will find within a book doesn’t bother me. (Samhain and Loose-Id do great jobs of warning whether the sex will cross your personal comfort boundaries without sounding like there is a problem with having a personal comfort level.)

    But I do feel a level of disrespect for someone who publishes a top 100 list that has to be revised immediately to please their audience. The books did not change during that time between the list being published and the list being revised.
    If it was just a popularity contest, why not run the top 100 like DABWAHA?

    Can we have a DABWAHA for YA novels?
    Pretty please?

    I don’t feel like I have always read enough of the entries to vote for DABWAHA, but I have read a lot of the YA books that the general population of SBTB loves. I could vote with confidence.

  8. I don’t know about the books that were removed and from what was said about them maybe they should not have been on their in the first place (?) but I can say that Tomorrow, When the War Began and that entire series is totally amazing even if I can’t see how “feminist” it is.

  9. meoskop says:

    But I’d encourage everybody to take a step back and remember that Bitch is run by actual humans

    Is that on a bingo card somewhere? Because it should be. Things that make me tired, maybe.

    I’m pretty sure no one thinks Bitch is run by fake humans. Or dolphins. This is a pretty mellow discussion of a pretty hot topic.  Everyone is human in this discussion. Authors and readers too. (Unless Don Marquis was right and cockroaches have mad crazy typing skills. I dunno tho, that lends itself to talking cats. Dangerous road.)

  10. Megs says:

    I dislike the idea that it is disgraceful or “waffling” to listen to the concerns of your readership after publishing something controversial. It’s not weakness, or a sign that you didn’t actually think or care about what you published in the first place, to stop and reevaluate when someone tells you you’ve fucked up. It’s not like Bitch caved simply because they were afraid of controversy; they reread the books and decided that they were wrong in their initial inclusion. I fail to see why they should have held their ground when they clearly didn’t feel that they were in the right.

    As for “triggering,” rape is not the only circumstance that is triggering, and “unfortunately” seems too weak a word right there. And because of the (again, unfortunate) diversity of sexual assault experiences, in fact, anything can be triggering. Trauma of many sorts can be recreated by smells, sounds, etc.

    The idea that if anything can potentially be a trigger, then it’s stupid to worry about something that has a very strong statistical potential to trigger someone, is a facile argument. Yes, it’s possible for a rape victim to be triggered by something as innocuous as iceberg lettuce. It’s also possible that I could get into a car accident when I’m paying attention and driving cautiously. But it’s also a hell of a lot more likely that I will get into an accident if I’m driving while distracted (texting, talking on my cell phone, etc.) so I don’t do it. I don’t tout the fact that I could totally get into an accident while I’m not texting as a reason that it’s totally okay to text and drive.

  11. ccmay31 says:

    I have read Just lisen” and “Speak” both dealing with a “type” of teen rape (popular guy invites girl to party rapes her and then she shuts everyone out) I find POWER in these books and thay give Me hope that it will get better one day.  I also read a book called “Stravaganza City of stars” that dose not deal with rape but with an older-sibling being verbally and emotionally abusive, now just because both subjects hit close to home for Me, I have reread “Just lisen” and “Speak” but sadly I can not bring Myself to do the same for Stravagaza tho it is a great book I guess it is My “Trigger”
    What I’m trying to say is one person’s Trigger is another one’s empowerment. My Soul will cry if thay start puting warning lables on books. ban Bambi cause His Mother dies? and it may trigger someone who’s own mother died when thay where a child? ban Romeo and Julliet cause there may be someone who made a “lets run away together”or suicide pact with there best friend/boyfriend and then did not go thru with?

    Captcha eye34
    An Eye for an Eye may leave the whole world Blind
    but have you ever tried to see thru Bubble wrap and Blinders?

  12. Evelyn says:

    Back in secondary school (Germany) I made a lecture on Nat Hentoff’s “The day they came to arrest the book” and was quite shocked that banning books is still some sort of normal in the US. While checking facts on the internet, I also heard that Little Red Riding Hood was banned due to its brutality – wtf?! Children over here love that story. The people that make these decisions really should get their act together – nobody ever develops while growing up in a cotton ball. I think books like “Go, ask Alice” and Nick Mc Donell’s “Twelve” could be of help showing how the world really is.

  13. AgTigress says:

    There are such strong and conflicting views expressed here that I hesitate to wade in, but speaking from a different generation and culture, it seems to me that those who object to what they see as undesirable elements in certain books are being, at the very least, over-protective.  Some of the things adolescents have to learn in order to make the transition from child to adult are that reality can be both cruel and immoral, that received wisdom is not always correct, and that authority figures may themselves be at fault.  Young people have to learn how to judge these matters, and to find ways of coping with an imperfect, and continually changing, reality.  They need to learn how to make dispassionate, intellectual judgements. 

    Personally, I would never, as an adolescent, have looked for answers in fantasy fiction, in anything containing ‘magic’, which I despised (and still do):  I wanted stories about real life, written for adults.  But another teenager, even then, might have drawn the necessary information and attitudes equally well from fairy-tales tales written for children, or from re-tellings of ancient myths (satisfyingly full of revenge, injustice, and plain, unadulterated violence).

    What I am trying to say is that good books, even if they contain ideas and beliefs we reject, are better for young readers than bad books which tick all the right, currently politically correct boxes.  Remember anyway that political correctness is mutable.  I would like to think that a 13-year-old might read one of the books that has been criticised and argued about, and say afterwards, ‘I enjoyed it, but I thought that X (some event within it) was not fair, not right’.  That will encourage growth far more than striking the book off an ‘approved’ list.  People need to learn how to argue and debate, and for that, it is necessary to be familiar with all sides of an argument.

    I can see faint echoes in some of the arguments above of the scandalous urge to redact old, classic works to remove words and attitudes that we now consider unacceptable.  To me, that is real 1984 stuff, the retrospective editing and falsification of history;  it is just as wrong to remove an offensive racial epithet from a 19th century book as it would be to use it today.  We are where we are because of the route we took, and the injustices of the past helped to form what we hope are more enlightened ideas today.  One thing that we can learn is that genuinely good, decent people can unthinkingly subscribe to evil beliefs because they are ‘taken as read’, being part of their society’s norms:  a scary but necessary lesson.

    Teenagers are people:  children are people.  They have to live in our society, which, like all human societies, is imperfect.  They have to know about both good and evil, and how to make choices.  We do them no favours at all by mollycoddling them.

  14. Midknyt says:

    Hmm.

    Well, I must say I’m horribly dissapointed.  Why?  Because when I saw the big cover of Tender Morsels on this post I thought it was going to be a YA lesbian, coming of age type book and the post was about some ruckus people made about it exisiting or being recommended.  Now I’m all sad that’s not what it is at all, partly because I really want to read something like that, and partly because I was hoping we’ve progressed to the point where there might be a book like that on a list like this.  (Is there?  I’ve only read three or four on the list, so let me know.)  Terrible sadness.

    Outside of that, I don’t agree with them changing the list either.  If you’re going to make a list like that, then you should at least have the decency to read the books that are on it, and if you’re going to split it up amongst a group of people, then have them explain why they think it is a good book after they have read it.  Then, when other people have dissenting opinions, the person who actually read it can further explain or clarify why they chose it.  I wouldn’t imagine it would be so complicated, especially when they can argue that that’s not really what the book is saying, like above readers of Sisters Red and Tender Morsels have.  It’s just made it blatantly obvious they didn’t research it well enough and they kind of just seem to be digging the hole deeper in an attempt to fix it.  It’s less obvious when you just say “we value your opinion but stand by our original decision.”

    As far as the triggering thing – I really don’t think that’s necessary.  I get the argument that anything can be a possible trigger as well as the argument that some things can be more likely and obviously triggers.  But…are there really people that pick up books and read them without even glancing to see what they’re about?  I mean, both of the descriptions on Amazon for Living Dead Girl mention abuse/rape/abduction pretty clearly and in the first couple of sentences.  I would think that someone who might know that would be a trigger for them would realize it as soon as they read what the book was about – so do we really need to worry about warning them that it’s a trigger?

    Or do people actually just pick up books and just read them based just on the title and cover?  (Of which I’m glad I’m not one of them, or I’d be very confused reading Tender Morsels right now, wondering when the gang raping was going to be done and the two girls would figure out they loved each other and run through the woods together to where they could celebrate their love.  Damn cover.)

  15. Tamara Hogan says:

    Great points, AgTigress. I think 13 year olds are far more resilient than we give them credit for, and I’d much rather a teenager’s first exposures to such challenging concepts and subject matter come from books rather than real life.   

    This is a process fail on BITCH’s part – a failure which could have been prevented if more research had been done before publishing the list in the first place.

  16. Midknyt: Sadly the girls on the cover are sisters! But i agree that there is a need for more lesbian YA coming of age stories.  Have you read Ash by Malinda Lo?  It’s a lovely retelling of Cinderella in which the heroine falls for the Prince’s Huntress instead of the prince.

    Tender Morsels is a magnificent book, but also a difficult one to navigate at times.  It’s a major fantasy work with very tough themes, and certainly can’t be summed up or judged in a mere description, but I was very disappointed to see the lone commenter at Bitch and then the representatives of the magazine themselves condemn it as a book that ‘uses rape as revenge’ – a minor and in this case entirely misunderstood plot point.

  17. KB/KT Grant says:

    What is wrong with people? It’s a group of bloggers’ personal picks? WTF? So what? Will there be outrage from a select community now whenever a blogger picks a group of books that shocks or upsets people?

    Give me a break. It’s a freakin’ book list.

    And the fact that some YA authors go one there acting all offended for whatever personal reason is ridiculous. Bad call on their part.

    Also why would those at Bitch Magazine change their picks just because a group of people came on to complain?

    But then again, if you haven’t read a book, how can you place it on a list in the first place? That’s like condeming a book for being evil but not reading it.

  18. ev says:

    Oh look, censorship at it’s “finest”.

  19. AgTigress says:

    I’d much rather a teenager’s first exposures to such challenging concepts and subject matter come from books rather than real life.

    Exactly.  This one of the strengths of fiction, for people of all ages.  We can enlarge our experience and examine our reactions to different situations in safety and at leisure.  This can actually help when we are faced with real crisis.  I am not suggesting that this is a primary objective of fiction, but it is one of the many mind-broadening effects of reading stories.  Sanitised, idealised stories are okay too, as long as they are well written, but we all face some dark times, pain and injustice in our lives, and they should be reflected in some of the fiction we read from an early age, so that we can recognise them and ponder how best to deal with them.

    I looked up Tender Morsels on Amazon and read the synopses and some of the reviews.  I wouldn’t want to read it myself, and would probably have dismissed it contemptuously at 13 because it is ‘a fairy-story’, but from that information, including some very hostile reviews, I couldn’t see that any of the disturbing elements in it would make it inappropriate for an adolescent reader.

  20. @AgTigress, I hope that someday I can have even half your eloquence and grace.  Well said.

  21. Faellie says:

    My understanding is that there is an internet culture about “warnings” and “triggering” which comes out of fan fiction, which is often written and read by adolescents, such as the alternative takes on Harry Potter and so on.  I don’t read Bitch and haven’t read any of the books being discussed, but I suspect that the problem here is the issue of whether and how that fan fiction culture is or is not applied to a list of recommended books on the internet.

    Storm in a teacup, unless you are one of the authors concerned.  My heart rate remains unchanged.

  22. Megs says:

    I think one of the things that bothers me most about the reponses to Bitch’s decision to remove the books is the repeated insistence that Bitch should not have let the comments of a few people influence their reading of the books in question. Scott Westerfield’s comment in particular seems to take for granted that the Bitch writers are incapable of critical thinking. It is completely possible to read a text wth someone else’s opinion in mind and still come to the conclusionthat they are wrong in their interpretation. I think thatthe world would be a better place if more people, when confronted with criticism, were willing to stop and take that criticism seriously for a moment before deciding whether to go on the defensive.

    It is neither censorship nor taking choices away from teens and rape victims to remove books from a rec list because you don’t feel comfortable labeling them as feminist. Bitch isn’t keeping anyone from reading these books and making their own decisions about the subject matter, they’re just saing the don’t feel comfortable recommending them. As far as I’m concerned their only fault was not researching their list well enough in advance.

  23. AgTigress says:

    Just for interest, I looked up Tender Morsels on Amazon UK.  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tender-Morsels-Margo-Lanagan/dp/1849920079/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
    No hostile reviews at all, as yet (and a much tougher-looking, more grown-up, cover).

  24. Laurel says:

    Me:

    But I’d encourage everybody to take a step back and remember that Bitch is run by actual humans.

    meoskop:

    Is that on a bingo card somewhere? Because it should be. Things that make me tired, maybe.

    @ meoskop. No, the bingo people said they only take numbers. The fortune cookie people said it was too long.

  25. Failure to critique?

    “But, Rhett!” Scarlett cried. “What shall I do?”

    Rhett paused, his hand on the door. “Frankly, my dear, your insistence on defining yourself by your relationships with men is self-infantilizing and avoids ownership of your own sexuality. Also, that tightly cinched corset is both dangerous to your health and a means by which the patriarchy restricts your full participation in society. Good day to you.”

  26. mutterhals says:

    I hate this ‘trigger warning’ shit. Trigger warning, I’m allergic to peanuts, don’t talk about peanuts around me. Trigger warning, I accidentally stuck my finger in a cat’s asshole, please don’t bring up cats or assholes in my presence. It’s goddamn juvenile and dertrimental. Why don’t these people just walk around with those horse blinders and ear plugs.

  27. Hydecat says:

    Failure to critique?

    “But, Rhett!” Scarlett cried. “What shall I do?”

    Rhett paused, his hand on the door. “Frankly, my dear, your insistence on defining yourself by your relationships with men is self-infantilizing and avoids ownership of your own sexuality. Also, that tightly cinched corset is both dangerous to your health and a means by which the patriarchy restricts your full participation in society. Good day to you.”

    Awesome.

  28. Lynnd says:

    @AgTigress – I agree with you completely.

  29. I’m just flabbergasted they’d remove a Michael Printz Honor book from the list.  Still scratching my head over that.

  30. Kelly L. says:

    I have big issues with Tender Morsels—unrelated to the rapes—but wow, what a crummy reason to remove a book from the list.

    I think books with rape in them need to exist, because rape exists in the real world and rape survivors need to know that (a) they are not alone and (b) they can still be a heroine; that capacity has not been taken away from them.

    Captcha: room52. I should probably make an Emma Donoghue reference of some kind.

  31. Nagaina says:

    As Faellie observed, to warn or not to warn for potentially triggering/emotionally sensitive content is a massive meta-issue that cuts across multiple levels of fannish interaction with assorted media. Specifically, an enormous wankstorm erupted in the fairly recent past over whether warning for physical or sexual violence or character death was necessary or desirable in the context of fanfiction. The debate has been, to put it mildy, extremely rancorous.

  32. Ana says:

    I haven’t read the other two books, but Living Dead Girl should not be labeled as YA. I’m by no means oversensitive, and far from a teenager and still that book made me sick.  I’ve read books with rapes, but this only tells the story of a continous abuse, I kept hoping for an end (maybe my bad, I misunderstood the description apparently) that never came. I know this things happen in the world, but I don’t think YA need to read about it as explicitly. I for one, wish I could forget I ever read it. And I really can’t understand how it even made the list in the first place. It may be many things, but feminist or YA it is not.

  33. Lonnie says:

    I’m sorry you feel that way, Ana. As someone who experienced extended periods of sexual abuse in my childhood, I found it a relief to read Living Dead Girl. People are so uncomfortable with sexual abuse, especially the sexual abuse of children, that they talk past it, ignore it, and deny it.

    It makes you feel small, it makes you feel dirty- it makes you feel like you did something wrong, to “let” someone assault you over a long period of time.

    To finally read a book that reflected my experience was transformative. It was the first time in a long time that I felt like I wasn’t alone in the world. That I wasn’t a filthy, dirty freak who made things unclean just for existing.

    I’m sorry Living Dead Girl wasn’t for you. But I am so, so grateful that Living Dead Girl was for me.

  34. ReganB says:

    Well said Lonnie.  The Bitch forgot the very transformational nature of books and in their short sightedness also forget the multitude of perspectives that exist in this world.

  35. Sheila says:

    Not being a reader of Bitch magazine I can’t comment on the quality of their publication. 

    However, having studied Gloria Steinem, I recall very clearly the ideas behind the feminist movement.  Perhaps my summary won’t agree with everyone else’s but as I understand feminism, choice is paramount. 

    A woman can choose to work, or choose to stay home.  She can choose to marry, choose to have children (though birth control and the sexual revolution was not considered part of the feminist movement), or choose to remain single.  She can choose to have children even if she remains single.  A woman can choose to try and have it all, and maybe actually acheive it, but the point is the options are open.  And the choice is hers.

    We all have triggers.  We all have pasts.  We have to chose how to deal with those pasts.  But one person who has difficutly with a ‘trigger’ novel, doesn’t have the right to censor my choice to read it. 

    I find it disappointing that the books were removed from a list mean to inspire YA readers.  I find it more disappointing that the magazine felt it had to ‘protect’ its readers from making their own choices.

    I’ve read and enjoyed more books than I can count.  I don’t need to be protected from my reading material.  If a book is disquieting or too upsetting for me, I put it down.  I’m obviously not ready for it yet.  I don’t go and tell everyone else that they shouldn’t read that book because it upset me.  Who am I to make that choice?

  36. l says:

    I’m very disappointed that Bitch would chose to remove a book from their list because of it’s “triggering nature”. I’m starting to find myself more and more frustrated by the way this concept is being used in online discourse. I frequently see it used, often coupled with the concept of a “safe space”, to render topics totally off limits or to derail every conversation into an examination of someone’s pain.

    To be clear, I’m not advocating being insensitive or unkind. Some things are obviously more likely to be triggering than others and I’m in favor of warnings of some sort so that people can avoid them if they need to. As others have pointed out, the blurb on Living Dead Girl is pretty clear about what’s in the story and that’s as it should be.

    That should be enough though. Going beyond that strikes me as disrespecting people’s ability to make their won decisions, which is very much at the heart of feminism. It also stifles discussions that need to take place.

  37. SB Sarah says:

    @mutterhals: Unfortunately, triggers are very real and awful for those that experience them, because they are an emotional and sometimes physical loss of control that is caused by an unpredictable factor. It’s a horrible thing to have to live through again and again, knowing that one small experience will cause a vivid replay of a trauma and that stopping the replay is not possible.

    My point, to state again, is that Bitch can’t be the sole determiner of what is or isn’t trigger, and that removing these books from their list based on that reasoning means they are attempting to define triggers, and protect and decide what’s best for their readers by retracting their original decision based on that reasoning. That’s my problem here: they’re doing what they say they’re against. They effectively said, “We don’t recommend this book any more because we have determined that THIS is the correct interpretation of this book, and it’s WRONG.”

    The same has been said of sex in romances: that while some readers find those explicit scenes distasteful, others revel in the positive and emotionally affirming depiction of sexuality, particularly female sexuality. And as Lonnie said eloquently above, what doesn’t work for one reader can be a transformative and emotionally cathartic experience for someone else. Bitch‘s decision to remove their recommendation because it might be “triggering” is the same justification libraries, schools, and other groups have used to take that experience away from someone who finds themselves reflected in a book, because their interpretation is the only valid one and must be the rule.

  38. Jo Ramsey says:

    In my opinion, if Bitch put the books on the list, they should have stood behind their decision. If they didn’t vet the books they listed, bad on them, but they still should have stood behind it.

    As for the triggering issues. I was molested as a kid. I was raped as a teen and again as an adult. I grew up in an emotionally abusive household; I married an emotionally abusive man. (Divorced him four years ago.) I’ve been diagnosed with PTSD, and my healing is an ongoing process.

    I have a LOT of triggers. That doesn’t mean that books that contain “triggering issues” shouldn’t exist, just that I shouldn’t read them.

    Then again, in my YA urban fantasy series Reality Shift, I gave the main character, Shanna, a lot of my history, and I’ve triggered myself more than once while writing or revising the books. The series is about Shanna and her friend Jonah preventing the destruction of the universe, but Shanna’s experiences and her healing are a major subplot. Sometimes I sit here crying when I’m working on those books.

    I do it anyway, because I know there are teens out there going through those same things. Some of them may be triggered by reading about Shanna’s life. But some of them might recognize themselves in Shanna and seek help.

    A list in a magazine—or the retraction of part of that list—may not impact people’s reading decisions. On the other hand, it may prevent people from reading the books who, if they had read them, might have found some kind of solace or the courage to seek help. Or at least might have realized they aren’t alone.

  39. Pam says:

    @AgTigress
    What she said.  All of it.

    @Ana & @Lonnie
    This is exactly why I think top 100 lists are a crock and censorship in all its permutations is an abomination: two valid opinions set at odds by by the absolutism of a list.  I googled “100 best books,” and, as I recalled, the predominance of male authored books on mainstream lists made my little hairs stand up, but I don’t recall any of those guys reneging.  Feminists shouldn’t waffle.

    SmartBitches doesn’t need a 100 best anything list because it incorporates the best kind of list: open-ended, flexible, adaptable to all tastes, and loaded with information.

  40. LIBGRRRLLA says:

    I make lists.  I make recommendations.  I’m a librarian, and the process of choosing is something I take very, very seriously.
    Making a list of the 100 Greatest Feminist YA Books Ever Written To Date is not a task to be done over brunch, and I resent, as a professional, the carelessness the writers of Bitch took with this list.
    Every person making the list should have read every book considered.  There should have been debate.  There should have been careful, deliberate consideration so that when issues like rape, triggering, and victim blaming rise, the authors of the list have prepared and reasonable responses.
    The writers absolutely have a right to put whatever title they want on the list.  But to then go back and remove a title because they didn’t put in a proper amount of prep work is sloppy, and disrespectful to the readers. 
    Making a list is not easy.  There will always, always always be people who don’t like this title, or think the other is too adult or too juvenile or whatever, but you have to stand behind the titles that were chosen, because they were chosen carefully and deliberately.
    This entire situation just makes me…sad.

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