206. Proving Love: An Interview with Dr. Chuck Tingle

[music]

Sarah Wendell:  Hello, and welcome to episode number 206 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books.  I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and with me today is Dr. Chuck Tingle.  If you are not familiar with Dr. Chuck Tingle, prepare to have your life irrevocably changed.  Dr. Tingle is the author of world-famous bestselling books, including My Billionaire Triceratops Craves Gay Ass, Pounded by the Gay Color Changing Dress, Pounded in the Butt by My Book Pounded in the Butt by My Book…, Slammed in the Butt by My Hugo Award Nomination, Feeling the Bern in My Butt, Pounded by the Pound: Turned Gay by the Socioeconomic Implications of Britain Leaving the European Union, and Pokebutt Go: Pounded by ‘Em All.  Dr. Tingle’s bio is equally impressive.  It reads as follows – ‘cause you know I had to share this with you:

Hugo Award nominee Dr. Chuck Tingle is an erotic author and Tae Kwon Do grandmaster (almost black belt) from Billings, Montana.  After receiving his Ph.D. at DeVry University in holistic massage, Chuck found himself fascinated by all things sensual, leading to his creation of the “tingler”, a story so blissfully erotic that it cannot be experienced without eliciting a sharp tingle down the spine.

Now this episode came to be because on Twitter he did an AMA wherein I asked, on Twitter, publicly in front of all of the people, if he would be a guest, and to my complete shock and utter joy, he agreed.  His books and his online persona are surreal and fascinating, and so is this interview.  I had a number of questions from podcast listeners and Patreon supports, plus several questions of my own.  Dr. Tingle was kind enough to answer all of them.  We talk about his mission to prove love and prove that love is real.  We talk about dealing with people who are not on your wavelength.  He discusses educating buckaroos, how one becomes a buckaroo or a lady buck, why he doesn’t want to write about famous women in the news or in current events, and he also talks about his GoFundMe to help people avoid thinking about the man with wieners for hair and also benefitting the Billings Public Library.  We end by discussing his experience with his Hugo nomination and what books he’s working on now.

Now, a special note for listeners:  I know many people listen to podcasts at one and a half or one and a quarter speed.  I typically listen at 1.25 speed.  I want to encourage you to drop the speed down to one or even slightly less than one times normal levels for this episode because of the way that Dr. Tingle speaks.  He has a very unique cadence to his speech, and I think if you listen at regular speeds you’ll have a much better chance of adapting your listening to how he speaks.

This podcast is brought to you by Burn Down the Night by M. O’Keefe.  Set in the world of O’Keefe’s bestselling Everything I Left Unsaid, Burn Down the Night follows a beautiful con woman who takes a bad-boy biker hostage in this edgy, seductive novel, available August 9th.

We also have a four-author transcript sponsor, which I am super thankful for, and I, as always, want to thank garlicknitter for her unparalleled work transcribing all of our podcasts.  [Aww, you’re welcome!  I love this gig! – gk] Our transcript for this episode is being sponsored by award-winning, bestselling authors, all of whom prove love is real, by name of Kit Rocha, Courtney Milan, Alyssa Cole, and Alisha Rai.  Buds, bucks, and lady bucks can click on the link in the podcast entry to download a free book from each one of these ladies.  And if you’re thinking, I want that book right now!  I want all of those books right now!  You should head over to kitrocha.com/exclusive-offer.

I am so excited about this episode, and I’m so excited to share it with you, so without further delay, on with the podcast.

[music]

Dr. Chuck Tingle:  Hello, this is Doctor Chuck.

Sarah:  It is so nice to talk to you, sir.  How are you today?

Dr. Tingle:  Hell-, hello, this, is this a lady buck-, buckaroo named Sarah?

Sarah:  That would be me, yes, this is Sarah.  How are you?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, I’m very, very good, thank you.  Thank you for having me on your big-, big-time show!

Sarah:  I don’t know how big time it is, but I am so, so excited that you said yes, so thank you for taking the time to talk to me.

Dr. Tingle:  I thank you.  Yeah, this is a good way.

Sarah:  This is definitely a good way.  I do have two things I need to tell you.  One, I’m required by law to tell you that I am recording, so:  I’m recording this.

Dr. Tingle:  This is good.  Yeah, yeah, please record, and then we’ll, well, we will prove love with this recording.

Sarah:  I think that is an excellent plan.  Now, I did want to ask you if I could use “I Wanna Get Hard with My Buds” as the music for this episode.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, this is, this is all a-okay.

Sarah:  Thank you for your permission!  I am so excited to share that with my audience.  So, would you please, for anyone who will be listening who may not have heard of you, which is very strange to me, would you introduce yourself, please, sir?

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yeah.  This, this is Dr. Chuck Tingle, the best author in Billings, and I am a writer of a, a thing called Tinglers that are books that make love real and prove love for all who kiss, and then this is a good way.  I am also a proud dad, and I have a handsome son name of Jon.

Sarah:  I have a number of questions for you from people all over the Internet.  There are many, many people who are excited that you agreed to speak with me.  In the, in the world of romance, which is kind of where I live on the Internet, you are something of a phenomenon, and there are many romance fans who are big fans of yours, so I wanted to ask you, have you read any romances?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, when I, when I was younger I didn’t get to read many books.  I, I was not allowed, and, and so I wrote stories on my own that were, were mostly stories of mobs of animals that don’t exist anymore, like, like the dinosaurs or unicorns or things that maybe a long time ago were, were alive and roaming the earth, and, and then that, that was my favorite story.  Eventually I found out that when I write, when I write with love, then, and then they started to kiss, and that was the way, that’s the way the story went.  That’s just the way the cook-, cookie crumbled.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Dr. Tingle:  So then I wrote my stories, and then I, I hid them, but then, then, then, there was the big fire, and then they burned away, so when I was older, then I moved to Billings and started writing, but mostly it was because I liked Stephen King and R. L. Stine, and they were my favorites, so then I wrote some stories like that and learned that in them, that if I wanted to prove love, it was real for all who kiss, that I had to maybe make the monsters kiss each other as time.

Sarah:  So ultimately, your writing led you to multiple examinations of love.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, the, the point of all Tinglers is to prove love, and, and that’s rule number one, the most important thing in love that you could ever do, whether you write, whether you’re writing Tinglers or playing a game of handsome baseball with your buds, and I, you need to make sure when you wake up in the morning you’re saying, I’m going to prove love today.  I’m going to go out there and get, get the day by the, get the day by hand and tell it that, that today we’re proving love, day.

Sarah:  I think that is a really wonderful philosophy to wake up for and to think of when you, when you wake up, and I have noticed on your Twitter feed, for months now, you have been very inspirational in how you talk about writing and your view of life, and you have many excellent inspirational images as well.  Do you have advice for aspiring writers?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, well, I am, I feel the, the way of most writers, if you’re writing a story then I, you’re probably all ready to prove love, because you have a feeling inside of you that you want to get out and show the world and to kind of, hello there, world, and nature is a land that I feel when I’m all alone in, in the dark, and so when you want to write with love, then, then everybody sees it and, and says, well, hello, this is a good way!  I want to be a part of this, because it is in the normal scene.  This is normal, to prove love, and so I think the best advice is, you know, when you make anything, you make it with love, and even if it’s a, a scary story like a Stephen King, which, you know, is a dark clown man coming out of the drain –

Sarah:  Ahhhhh!

Dr. Tingle:  – to claw.  You know, he’s going to kind of come get you, but then you think, well, that, that maybe I have a fun time with my friends around the spooky fire listening to that story, and then we got spooked, and we got real scared and the, and the whole night was proved love, so it’s all about the, the, the intent of the story and if you’re writing for love, or sometimes bad, bad men, sometimes they are devils and they write to prove meanness and fear of, fear of all things, so, and they, they will fail in the end because they do not write with love.

Sarah:  That is very optimistic and is actually a reassurance I really needed right now, so thank you!

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, yeah, you are welcome to the true way.

Sarah:  This is a very true way.  I don’t want to dwell on your, on your late wife, but you brought up fear and how when you write to prove fear that all things will fail because proving love is the much better way; it’s the good way.  I know that grief is difficult, and when you’re writing and you’re trying to prove love, are you trying to reassure yourself?  Are there any times when it’s hard to believe that love is real?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, yeah.  As a human being, well, it’s, you know, we’ve got all kinds of feelings.  Sometimes I’ll get in my head.  Sometimes I go in the cupboard, open it up, and there’s no spaghetti left.  You get so mad, and then you’ve got to realize that that’s a normal day of buds sometimes, and even a true buck can, is going to get sad or mad or at the bottom of the lake, and some, sometimes that’s just the way.  That’s, that’s, so that’s life, but it, the point of proving love is that it is an action.  It’s part, it’s part of a journey, and, you know, love, we all know love is real, but the process of love being real is about proving it in the face of a sad day.  So, well, when you have a sad day, you, you can think, oh, oh, well, there’re sad days ahead.  I guess I’m going to just not do anything, sit around, and maybe stare at the wall, but, but instead you think, oh, well, there’s sad days ahead.  May-, maybe if I go for a walk with son name of Jon, we can prove, prove that there’s a sun in the sky and the wind in the leaves and all other things that are, you know, kind of seem simple, they kind of, but really, they prove love every day, and, and it’s, proving love is a, is the process of getting over that and understanding that, oh, we have maybe, maybe a little more perspective on it, that sometimes all love is real.

Sarah:  Perspective is a, is a really important part of your writing, too.

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yeah, so, well, that, the realization of the realities is maybe important ‘cause from some perspective you might not realize you’re, you’re in the Tingleverse yet, so the learning different perspectives is very important for Tinglers.

Sarah:  Do you know about how many readers you have?  I, I don’t mean to pry and ask, ask offensive questions, but I’m, I’m curious if you have a sense of how big the world of Tinglers is.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, the son, son name of Jon tells me that lots of people read, and I, I like to get on my, on my Internet and, oh, on my Twit-, Twitter and Facebooks, and then when I am posting then I see, I see all, all, all kinds of shares, so that makes me think, oh, well, I guess a lot of people are reading this.  I guess that’s, that’s pretty neat, and then, and then son Jon says, oh, Chuck, you got a big check today.  There, there are lots of people buying your books.  Well, what do you want to do with it?  And I said, well, I want to save it up and then maybe one day we, we can buy a house on the hill on top of Billings, so I understand that, that maybe man of Chuck has lots of fans.  They send very nice letters and emails, and, and that makes my heart sing.  That proves love is real.  I mean, it makes me, it makes me want to kiss the sky!

Sarah:  [Laughs] It, it is never, it never gets old to have someone tell you how much they enjoy what you write, does it?

Dr. Tingle:  No, and it never does.  It’s so, so wonderful.  It’s a good feeling.

Sarah:  Do you ever get negativity about your writing, that you write about men proving love and many, many acts involving butts?  Do you get ever, do you ever get any angry or upset messages from, from people?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, it’s, it’s an interesting question, because, you know, most people who already don’t love or want to prove love, they’re, most devils and scoundrels are, are, they don’t want to read those books anyway, so they kind of ignore it, and then they, they don’t really send the bad words, be-, because they, they know they’re, they’re on the other wavelength.  Some-, sometimes, well, the buckaroos will read my books and think I’m trying to be mean about all, about proving love, and that is not true, so that, that is a sad way.  Sometimes people, people think, oh, Chu-, Chu-, Chuck’s made a big old joke about kissing planes.  I say, no, that’s not a joke!  It’s the good way to kiss planes, and the, the point of Tinglers is to understand that all love is real, ‘cause sometimes bad, sometimes bad men get on the TV and they say, oh, well, you, you can’t give, you can’t, if you kiss another buckaroo, see buckaroos kiss, and then, well, what’s next?  Are they going to kiss a, kiss a big-time building or maybe kiss a car?  And then I say, yes, they should kiss whoever they want!  If they want to kiss two cars, that’s okay!  And we can tell them that, that they can kiss two cars, ‘cause cars are handsome!  So then, and then people think that’s a joke of mine.  Sometimes it’s, it’s pretty rare, but, but, it doesn’t happen all that often, but every once in a while people think, oh, Chuck’s making a big joke about kissing cars.  I say, no, well, that is not the way.  It’s okay to kiss whatever you want.  I’m not poking jokes!  I’m being a real man!

Sarah:  It must be frustrating sometimes to encounter people who don’t understand that you’re not joking, but you also said that maybe they’re not on your wavelength, and that’s a, that’s a really generous way to look at how negativity can be something separate from yourself.  Is that a, a, a way of coping that you’ve developed over time?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, yes, and also, it is true that, well, I, may-, maybe coping is a good word, but also, well, you know, I, I have a very good life.  I wake up in Billings and go on a walk to Starbucks with my son, and well, you know, it is, I know, I can’t complain about much, so when, when people say that, you know, they don’t like what I do as a man of Chuck I think, well, I, I listen to you, I understand that you have your own point of view, and you, you’re just trying to prove love in your own way, and that’s okay.  They’re, they’re, they’re just trying to understand this, the, the reality of love, so that, that’s okay, and even if we disagree, I, I am not going to get, I’m not going to get too upset about it, ‘cause I have such a nice way of life, and it doesn’t bother me too much.

Sarah:  One of the things that I really enjoy about your stories is that consent is a very big deal; it’s very prominent in your stories.  Is that a conscious decision that you make, or is that just part of your philosophy of proving love?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, that’s important because I understand that there are issues of that in, we’re in the world right now, and, and always, and then there, there are all kinds of, you know – some people have things that, that make them, well, want to kiss, and sometimes they play, they play games about, oh, well, he said maybe we can kiss, then we should, and then people read that and they, they like it, but, but for me, that is one thing that I, I don’t personally want to, to do.  There was a, there was a book in the name of Fifty Shades of, of Touching, and they’re, in this book they, they kind of, I heard of some ways that maybe they didn’t play the games in the right way, and I thought, well, I don’t want to write like that.  I want to write to prove love, the sa-, safe love, the, the way that people can enjoy love and maybe, well, when they respect each other, and then everyone’s on even, the playing field, everybody goes home happy, and so it, it’s okay maybe if people want to read those kinds of books, but I don’t, I don’t really want that to, to be the way of a Tingler, and then also, when you have a Tingler and you’re talking about getting pounded, sometimes people think that that can be an aggressive way of a buckaroo, so it’s very important to me that as long as you’re talking about pounding, maybe when you read the words you think, oh, this is a preferred pound.  This is not a, this is not a pound that, that people are questioning.  They all are on the same page.

Sarah:  I think that’s a really good example, because you do use some, not aggressive but forceful or energetic terms like pounded or slammed, and so consent is important there to make sure people understand, like you said, that everyone’s on board, and they all agree.

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yeah.  This is very important, because you’re, love is, it’s sometimes simple to say, oh, well, I’m going to prove love, and then that’s a devious way to say it, but things that you’ve got to understand, some, some bucks coming up in the buckaroo game don’t understand that, that you’ve got to have rules to the way that you prove love and realize sometimes, and a lot of that is just, just talking about it, so it shouldn’t (muffled) hey, well, do you, do you want to kiss?  And if they say, yes, I do want to kiss, so I am approving you are a man, and we should kiss, well, when you do that, then you can prove all kinds of love, but it doesn’t prove love if you don’t ask in a nice way.

Sarah:  I agree, I agree!  I do want to ask you about buckaroos and lady bucks, which –

Dr. Tingle:  Yes.

Sarah:  – is a wonderful way to describe people.  What are the qualifications for being a buckaroo, in addition to communication and consent?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, that is, this is a good question because I – well, first things first.  The bu-, buckaroo lifestyle is just, oh, the way of all can prove love, and when I would write about that, people would think that I only meant boy bucks, and so I said lady bucks, just to make everybody understand, but also when, when you say buckaroo, that can be all kinds of bucks.  That can be a boy buck or a lady buck, and, and that can even be a buckaroo that’s neither.  Maybe a handsome tree or even a dinosaur, what-, whatever you want to be, you can, we can all be buckaroos, so lady buck is just maybe a more specific kind of buckaroo, but we’re all, we can all be bucks.  It’s not discriminated against, and then to answer your other quest-, or your main question, is that  key point to being a buckaroo is just proving love, and going about your day, waking up every day thinking, I’m going to get out there and I’m going to make love real.  I’m going to make love real for all who kiss, and that’s what you say to the morning sky.

Sarah:  So the goal to being a buckaroo, which is a concept with no gender or even a single species, is to go out and prove love every day.

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, that is correct, and thank, thank you.  Some-, sometimes when I talk I get excited and I, and I say lots of things, what, what’s come to my head, but that is, it’s a very clear way of saying it, and I am sorry that I ramble sometimes.  Son Jon sometimes says, oh, Chucky, you’re, you’re rambling again, and I say, aw, I know, I’m sorry.  Sometimes I just talk a lot.

Sarah:  Do not apologize.  For one thing, your rambling is very interesting, and for another, this is a podcast for the Internet, and we have not run out of room online, so you can ramble as much as you like.

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, that is, this is, this is a good way.  Okay, it’s –

Sarah:  I think so too!

Dr. Tingle:  Thank you.

Sarah:  So one question: I noticed you online a day or two ago talking about how you’ve written books about different political candidates, but you’re not planning to write one about Hillary Clinton.  Did I read that correctly?

Dr. Tingle:  That, that is correct.  Well, I, I was kind of considering it, ‘cause I, I like to write about new, new and exciting things in the news, and every time I turn it on, she’s on the dang newspaper!  And she’s on every Billings newspaper, so that’s – now, that, if I were, you know, watching, but it’s, and I’m not sorry it’s your thing, kind of got, your fan, thought, thought about, as a lady buck, she, lots of people talk about pounding anyway, but if something’s, as we discussed, there can be in a good way, but a lot of times it’s not in a nice way.  It’s in a harassing way, and with, like without consent of the, the lady bucks.  Well, then I thought, well, maybe the best way is just to not write about lady bucks too much, ‘cause they get, they get told about that all the time, and, and sometimes it’s not in a nice way, so even if a Tingler is done to prove love, I would just rather not, just rather not add to that big old pile of pound talk they get every day, ‘cause it’s, even if mine is a positive pound, then there’re lots of mean pounds coming their way, and I don’t, didn’t really want to be part of that too much.

Sarah:  That’s a very, very unique perspective, because I have not met too many people who have decided not to talk about Hillary Clinton.  Most people have a lot of things to say, and as you mentioned, they’re not always very positive or consensual.  So –

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah!

Sarah:  – thank you for that.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, that also, ‘kay, I think it just applies to most, most lady bucks in general.  It’s not so much Hillary’s Clinton, but mo-, mostly just, I, there, there, there are lots of the famous ladies in the news, and –

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tingle:  – when I see the way that they write stories about them, I think, well, maybe, maybe they’ve got enough on their plate, ‘cause as a big lady in the news you’ve got, you’ve got all the other stuff to worry about now besides an old man named Chuck writing a, a Tingler about pounding.

Sarah:  I think you are very right about that.  I have a number of questions from different listeners of the podcast, and Ellen wanted me to ask you, how do you decide if a current event is important enough to get your attention for a book?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, the, they, you know, they’re, you see it, and you think, well, I wonder, wonder if this is going to really touch a lot of hearts and bucks and bucks’ hearts*, so when I see it on the news and I think, well, maybe this will, this will one day touch for a very, very small amount of people, or is this something that’s going to make, make a wave in the culture of buds?  So if it is going to make a bud wave, I think, well, maybe I should give my perspective as a man name of Chuck, and then, and then when I write, then, then people can say, oh, well, well, I thought this one way about it, and, and then there’s another way, and since sometimes they just kind of come off of their, like with your last question about Hillary’s Clinton, I will say, well, I’m not going to write, write a Tingler about her, but, you know, there is an area there, you know, going to be a First Buck named Bill horsing around in the White House maybe, and then I think, well, maybe I should write, write a Tingler about that.  That, that, that’s fair game, so then, then I think, well, you know, kind of evolves from there, and then, and then, well, then I’m thinking in my morning meditation, I think, well, okay, I, I know, I know what’s going on in the news.  I know the big kind of stories, so which one makes my heart sing?  And then, then the one that makes my heart sing is the one that I think I can use to prove the most love, and then I will go and write it.

Sarah:  I have to say, I think the idea of a Tingler about a First Buck named Bill in the White House, should that come to pass, would be truly amazing and definitely a bud wave.

Dr. Tingle:  I, I agree with you.  The man name of Bill, he, he knows how to horse around, and that’s for dang sure, and, and son, son name of Jon says, show me an old lady.  I told him my idea, and he showed me old, old lady, old, old Bill playing on the saxophones, and he played on the saxophone so good, and I thought that, well, whoa, what a handsome way.  So that, that, this is a possible thing there.

Sarah:  So for you, it’s the idea of the event that comes first, ‘cause one of my other questions was from Kendal about what, what happens first for you, the plot or the title of the book?  And for you it sounds like it’s really the subject that comes first.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes.  The subject is, I think, well, what makes me feel weird today?  Well, what’s got me tingling this morning, ‘cause I want to watch the news with son name of Jon, and then we talk about it so I can understand, well, what is happening, and then when I, I sleep on it sometimes, and it’s like a good night’s sleep, and then I wake up and then, then the idea is there.  So fir-, first is idea, and then, and then next is title, and then next I write the story, so I do write a title first, but first is idea.  First comes that, that initial spark of hardness.

Sarah:  May I ask you what your writing is, writing process is like?  Do you have a ritual that you follow when you sit down to write?  You’ve mentioned that you meditate and you watch the news and you take walks with, with your son.  Are there other parts that help you figure out the right frame of mind to write a Tingler?

Dr. Tingle:  Mm, well, yes, I, well, lots of things go into making love real, a Tingler, as I, well, after I get the ideas, the time to write, I make sure that, that I’m sitting in my room, which is a nice room on, on, on the top floor, and it looks out on the neighborhood, and I like to keep my window open so I can see if, if Ted Cobbler human is getting into any trouble over there, so I keep an eye on that, and as, as long as the neighborhood is, is doing okay I can relax a bit, and then I start to write, and then when I write I just kind of let those words come out, and then they come out pretty fast, ‘cause I’m just thinking, well, which way is the story going to go?  It’s going to twist and turn and go along and cruise on through, and then, then when I’m done I say, hey, Jon, come on over and I’m going to send you an email, and we’re going to, and you can edit my story, and then, then I get to work on the, the cover, and then I make the cover, and then, then saw, then maybe the next day, oh, son name of Jon sends my book back, and then, then, then he makes it so that everybody else can read the words, ‘cause I am not good at spelling or, or making sentences that, that, that all people can read, and, and son name of Jon helps me make them evened out and so they can be read.

Sarah:  So he’s your editor in a lot of ways.

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yeah.  Son name of Jon edits all, all Tinglers, and he is, he, well, without him love could not make love real because of the, because then they’d be too, too hard to read.  Some, some people have trouble reading my words, and that, that’s okay.  I, I did not ro-, read a lot as a young buck and was, and I was homeschooled, so I do, do not understand certain things, and I can accept that as a buckaroo.

Sarah:  So you were homeschooled.

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yes.

Sarah:  And as a buckaroo with an enormous amount of self-love, you accept what you know and what you don’t know and turn your writing over to your son to make it, make it better for people to read.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, and he, he helps go through and take, take sentences and things like, cap-, capitalization, or maybe he says, oh, well, Chuck, this is okay, but, but this per-, this person is, you don’t need to mention Channing Tatum here.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Dr. Tingle:  It’s kind of, it seems like a weird thing to do.  And so he helps me take those parts out, and then, and then at the end of the day all my ideas and sentences, well, I mean, he’s as good at it as they’re going to, he just takes the sentences that are, that are there and just kind of cleans them up and straightens them out for me.  And, and then I, people sometimes complain about the, the editing of Tinglers, and I say, well, heck, you don’t, you don’t even read ‘em before son Jon does and read ‘em. If you can read ’em and saw that, so then it’s, that’s okay, but I think he does, he does a good job for what he is given from me; I understand this.

Sarah:  So proving love with your writing does not necessarily require a per-, a, a goal of perfection.  The goal is to prove love and to share it in a way that is as quick and honest as possible.  Do I have that right?

Dr. Tingle:  Yeah, yes.  That is a close way, be-, because, as you know, you hear stories of old-time writing bucks, and then they sit at their typewriter, and they, they write a hundred words and, and they have, oh, somebody who, they wave of editing, and, and then they put out their book, and then, then people say, well, that’s a pretty good book, but it, it should come out a hundred years ago, and so as man name of Chuck I think, well, we can’t really, you know, we’re, we’re time, time out of the big-time art, become art here, so I think with art, what, what is, what is the goal?  Is the goal to be perfect, or is the goal to capture a moment of buds?  And I think that it is to capture a moment of buds.  I don’t want, want it to be perfect.  I want to sound like a man name of Chuck made it with his son in Billings to prove love, and the, and the best way to be like that is to have some spelling errors sometimes and, and that is okay, because the point is the experience of reading the book as a Tingler with you or your friends or a handsome bud.

Sarah:  I have a question from, from Anne who wanted to know if your Tae Kwan Do experience influences your writing as well.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, part of Tae Kwon Do is to center yourself and to understand and that, that it is all okay to fight, and sometimes it’s okay to run away, and mostly that, that, that a part of learning your body through Tae Kwon Do is to understand that in sometimes when you’re, when you have a way of conflict and that it’s not always about this sort of big-time fight, and so there’s a, Tae Kwon Do helped me learn that, that you, you need to discipline your own self and learn your body in important ways, but then at the end of the day, the, the, you have to pick and choose your buckaroo battles.  So in writing Tinglers, sometimes I think, well, what should I prove today?  What should I do?  And I think, well, now, you, you shouldn’t, shouldn’t think with an aggressive way.  You should just think, okay, I’m going to meditate and see what comes to me, what proves love in a positive way.

Sarah:  So it’s all about centering yourself and focusing your intention, whether you are practicing Tae Kwon Do or you are writing Tinglers.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, this is, this is the way.  This is a good way, yes.

Sarah:  Would you be willing to tell us about the subject of your dissertation?  An author named Courtney wants to know what the subject of your dissertation was.  Can you talk about that at all?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, well, you mean for my Ph.D. from DeVry?

Sarah:  Yes, sir!

Dr. Tingle:  Oh –

Sarah:  And I apologize for not calling you Dr. Tingle.  I apologize for that.

Dr. Tingle:  That, that is okay.  I, well, I, I don’t know about this big, big word name of dissertation.  I, when I went to DeVry I would wake up in the morning and see a, a Word document on my computer, and then, then they would have questions from different, different people from all over, saying, oh, hey, how do I prove love?  What is going on?  Maybe I need a massage here, or is there a problem with my back?  And then I would type them into Word, and then son Jon would come say, come in the room and say, oh, Chuck, did you answer your questions?  Did you have a good day?  And I would say, yes, son, I, I answered all my questions, and then, am I any closer to, to getting my Ph.D.?  And he would say, oh, well, I’ll go send these off and see, see what the, the answer is, and that’s, that is what I did before I published Tinglers, and that was a good way for me to be a happy buckaroo and spend my days, and then, then Jon would, Jon would help me do that, and then one day Jon said, oh, guess what, Chuck?  Congratulations!  You got your Ph.D. now.  You’re a doctor –

Sarah:  Wow!

Dr. Tingle:  – ‘cause your answers were so good!  And I said, oh, well, okay.  Well now I’m a doctor!  And then he said, well, what else do you want to do?  You want to answer more questions?  I said, well, the questions are, questions are fun, but may-, maybe I was thinking about writing books again, like when I was a young buck, and then Jon said, oh, that’s good!  That was, that’s a good time, Chuck!  Let’s, let’s do that too!  And so, and then we started to write Tinglers after I became a big-time doctor.

Sarah:  And now you are a full-time writer!  Congratulations on that, by the way.

Dr. Tingle:  Thank you.  Yes, I am full-time now.  I don’t need to answer questions that appear on my computer in the morning when Jon comes in and picks them up for me.  I don’t need to, ‘cause I’m a writer now!

Sarah:  Do you feel any different about yourself now that you’re a full-time writer?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, well, that’s, I don’t know.  I guess when I wake up I have maybe a little bit of a spring in my step, a little more than I used to, and other than that I feel pretty much the same way.  I, I guess maybe, maybe a little bit of a spring in my step when we walk to Starbucks.

Sarah:  Is it easier for you to produce writing that makes you want to kiss the sky, or do you find it, that it’s harder to find ways to prove love?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, I, I’d say it’s a-, it is about the same.  I just, you know, I, I, I didn’t take too much time out of my day to be a doctor, so now, now, well, when I write I just kind of think that I have a little more confidence, a little more, a little more, when I’m at the keyboard I think, oh, this is going to be a pretty good Tingler.  I know, I know what’s what now, ‘cause I’m a doctor, and then I’m a retired doctor, too, so that’s a, put that on the old resume whenever I’m thinking about who, who I am as a man, and then that doesn’t matter.  It’s all, it  doesn’t matter that much, ‘cause I didn’t spend too much time doing that anyway, and most, most of my time was spent protecting the neighborhood, and when son Jon is at work I did go, go around the house and maybe cast spells or understand the, what is happening in, in Billings and the being, being a good buck and show-, showing the world that I am there to protect it when Ted Cobbler comes around.

Sarah:  You know, I have a question about him, and I was, I was debating with myself whether or not to bring it up, because I didn’t want to upset you, but if, is the devil man Ted Cobbler both a real person and a, a representative of the evil that lurks inside everyone?  This is question is from Alisha.  She wanted to know if maybe we all have a little bit of Ted Cobbler or a person like Ted Cobbler inside us, or is that your specific devil man?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, no, I hope nobody has any, any part of that scoundrel in them.  There, there, Ted Cobbler is, oh, he’s a horrible man.  He’s the devil down the street, and he’s, he thinks he owns the place, you know.  He’s driving fast, driving around in his, his sports car, go-, going up and down the street like he owns it, and, and sometimes he, he waves from his yard like he’s not a devil!  And I say, you are a devil.  I’m not going to fall for your games, and he says, hey, Chuck, hey, Chuck, want to come over for a barbecue?  You and son Jon could come over, and I say, get out of here, Ted!  I don’t want to come over!  I’m, I’m going to put cursed sand in your mailbox and teach you not to be a devil.  So and then, then he was a bad man, so I don’t, I don’t much care for old Ted.  And, but as far as having a scoundrel inside of you, I think it’s, I think that, that my buckaroos sometimes have, have a bad day or they think, oh, I’m sad and, and how am I going to prove love today?  I can’t prove love ‘cause it’s a bad days ahead.

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tingle:  And then, and then what happens though is that they realize that, that, that love is real eventually, and then the sun shining and hitting their face and they think, oh, well, that was just a sad day, and then the, the people who have scoundrel in them are not in this way.  They, they wake up and with clouds on them, and then, then they going around trying to hurt others, so I think that maybe we’ll, maybe sometimes buckaroos will wake up and have a sad way, but they do not have devils in them.  The devil, a devil is another thing entirely that is just all kinds of bad.

Sarah:  I, I agree with you there.  To keep all of the difficult questions in one section, may I ask you about the man with wieners for hair?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, oh, he is a bad way, and this is badly.  Well, the only reason to talk about the, the man who comes when you think of him with no eyes and wieners for hair is to tell all the listeners, please do not think of this man.  So now, now we can change – well, we, we can talk about him, but as long as the, the listeners promise not to imagine him or think of him in any way, because he will be in the garden looking, looking at the window, and then I, I, and I don’t think of him, he’s not there.

Sarah:  So it’s better not to talk or think about him then.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, if you talk about him, then we can just talk about maybe that other people shouldn’t think of him, and then, then I don’t know if this is a good strategy, but there is the only way to spread, to spread the, the message.  I, I, well, maybe the good thing is, is to not, to say on contrast, I have a charity I have started and a GoFundMe page that, that is to stop this man, so if you are listening go there and donate, because I will send all money to Billings Public Library and so that they can buy books and then maybe people can read these books and not think of this man, because if they don’t have books to read, their mind will wander, and they will think of him, so there’s a GoFundMe page on my, on my Twitter, and then, then they can go there, and they can maybe donate five dollars to Billings Public Library for more books so they will not think of this man.

Sarah:  I think that’s a very positive thing to do with someone who you don’t wish to think about and don’t wish to be in your garden.  And I saw that the Billings –

Dr. Tingle:  Yes.

Sarah:  – the Billings Public Library sent you a letter to acknowledge the donations of your, of yourself and your fans.  You’ve made an, an, a very sizable difference for the Billings Public Library!  Way to go!

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, I’m, when I first thought of idea to give them some money, I thought, well, maybe the, maybe the, well, nothing can come of that.  It makes me feel good as a buckaroo to help out around the town of Billings, but, but then I, when, when I do (muffled) they laugh, this is good, which makes love real!  And then they, and then they would put down money into making a bus that drives around with books for young bucks out in the, the middle of the forest, so it’s, now even the young bucks can read, and that, this is important because I did not have, I did not read as a, as a young buck, and then, and then, now I can’t spell, and then maybe if other buckaroos can read they can spell when they’re older like me.

Sarah:  I do want to ask you about someone who I don’t like to think about either, because he has said some very unkind things about me personally.  But you went through an incredible experience with the Sad and Rabid Puppies when you were nominated for a Hugo this year, and he –

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, no, man, they are, they are devils.

Sarah:  Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there, and I know that Vox Man had a number of horrible things to say about you as well.  How did you manage to keep your optimism going through that experience?  Because your way of handling their actions, Becky asked me to tell you that it was awe-inspiring and surreal genius and that you have inspired her to keep writing because you were so resilient.

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, then, that is, that is very kind, and it is good to hear that, that, that.  Well, see, this is, this is all the important lesson, is when scoundrels strike, which is bound to happen from time to time, devils will, devils will join forces and strike out against bucks –

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tingle:  – and then when you, when you see the way that they act and you answer with love, you, then it only amplifies your love.  I’m, I have been trying to prove love for a very, very long time, and then what it takes is, is to prove love in the face of devils, is to amplify that message, so, you know, maybe think of it like if you had a, a chemistry set and you thought to yourself, oh, well, maybe if I mix these two, these components, I can make an even bigger, even bigger volcano, and then, then you realize, well, maybe the part that makes the biggest volcano is when, when devils strike and you prove love, because anybody can prove love when they’re just walking down the street listening to the birds cast spells, and then, then, but it’s harder to prove love when there’re devils banging on your door, and that, that’s when it’s most important because then when you prove it and the whole world sees, and then it creates a wave of good days ahead, and that is important.

Sarah:  So for you, with any collection of scoundrels striking out and being unkind and mean, for you, proving love is always the best answer.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, and then, then most of the time, yes.  I’m, it’s hard to say, ‘cause the world has had some very scoundrel, scoundrel men who have done bad things, but for the most part, yes, I think that love is the best way to prove, to prove that scound-, the scoundrel way does not succeed, but the most important thing too is when you talk about Vox Man, I didn’t know much about old Vox Man when I started this, and I learned, and they learned the things that he said, and the, the way that he was, so then, then, then I thought, well, this is a, this is a devil who’s having a very bad day, and he’s having a bad life, so maybe the way that he is, is, is bad enough just being him and waking up in the morning in his own bones, and that is just, that just makes me, it makes it easy to prove love when you realize that most devils have to be devils around themselves all day, and we don’t have to be around that.  We’re having good days.  We, we’re not even thinking about him.  We’re just going, going out and, you know, maybe going and playing in the park or going to a nice dinner with my son, and while these devils are in their devil pit planning, and, and the devil pits are stinky and gross, so it makes it easier to prove love when you realize that devils have to be around themselves all day.

Sarah:  That’s an extraordinary amount of compassion.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, I, I, you know, as a man name of Chuck I try to, try to always see the, the, the proof of love in things, and, and you know, there, the only way devils spread their devil, their devil lives is if you believe them and their, the main devil lie is to say love is not real, so, well, when the devil comes a-knocking I just think, well, you’re, you’re wrong about that, and your, your life is a way of a devil, so you, you know, I will see you the way that you are and say, well, that’s, that’s a kind of a goofball way, and then, then I will not participate in your devil lifestyle.

Sarah:  That’s really very inspiring.  You, you must have an extraordinary relationship with, with your son and have a lot of advice and things to teach him.  Does he listen when you talk, or does he just sort of say, okay, Dad, like most, like most sons do?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, he, he listens because, you know, when I, when he, we have a very good relationship.  We’re, we’re kind of like best buddies, and when we hang out he says, oh, well, Chuck, what do you think of this?  And what, what do you think of that?  And, and he listens to me, and that makes me feel like a good, a good dad, but, but, you know, even he’s so cool that it’s kind of hard because he’s a, he is a very handsome man and he has lots of friends, and I don’t have that, and he has those, and then so when he does do the, does things, I think, oh, well, well, someday I hope I’m as cool as my son, and then I think maybe I will be, but it makes me so happy when sometimes I, when sometimes I prove love, and then he comes back to me and says, oh, well, Chuck, you handled that in a really good way, and the way you did that, that, that was really nice, and that made, made the devils really, really think about what they were doing, so then I thought, well, then that’s good encouragement, thank you, son.  And, and then when I, and then I like to make him proud, so then that is way, that is a good way.

Sarah:  That is definitely a good way.  What do you think about online dating and meeting people on the Internet?  ‘Cause I know you just said you didn’t have many, many friends like, like Jon does.  Do you talk to people and become friends with people online?  Do you see people finding true love through the Internet?  What do you think about that?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, I, I think this is a good way, and it’s kind of like, well, the way all technology works in the past, in the past, if you wanted to kiss someone and then someone said, oh, well, I want to kiss a car, and then you said, well, that doesn’t make any sense.  You can’t date, date a dang car; they, they don’t exist yet.  And then, then they become invented, and everyone’s kissing their own cars now, and it’s a normal way, and they’re making bestselling books about it, so when you think about, oh, I’m going to go, go find a date on the Internet, these things that, you know, that’s, that sounds fun.  That sounds like, like a nice time.  You get on your phone and, and just go on there, so son name of Jon was on a, was on a, sitting on his phone, and where he lives, when he gets to look at all of the ladies in Billings, and going across his phone until he found one that, that thought he was a handsome man, and then, then they went on a date to the Olive Garden, and then, then, then they were friends for a while, but then son Jon said that they weren’t friends anymore.  So it seems like a good way.

Sarah:  So Jon is single then.

Dr. Tingle:  He, well, Jon, for a while then, Jon, Jon is a single man.  He will, he has a, a lady in his life name of Fancy who was a kind of a snake in the grass, and he, then he, he, she comes back and breaks his heart every once in a while, and I do not like this as his, as his proud dad.  I wish she would not do that, and they were going to get married once, and then, then she didn’t show up for the wedding.

Sarah:  Oh, no!

Dr. Tingle:  And then, then, then it was a sad day, and then, and then she came back in a couple weeks later and said, oh, I’m so sorry.  Let’s try it again, and Jon said, okay, and then she did it the dang second time.

Sarah:  No!

Dr. Tingle:  So then when she came back, when she came back third time I tried to put a snake in her purse, and then, then she didn’t come back.

Sarah:  So the way to deal with a snake in the grass is to, is to give them a literal snake.  I think that makes a lot of sense!

Dr. Tingle:  That works.  Sometimes that is, that is a good way.  If you can go in the garden and find a snake, you can put it in a purse, and then, then they will go away for good.

Sarah:  I’m going to have to remember that.  Are there any books that you’re reading or, or things that you’re looking at right now that you would like to tell people about?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, not that, nothing, not that I am reading.  I’m, I’m watching, I watched a TV show on the, then, with son Jon.  He shows me all the best TV shows, and that, that was, but I am not reading at the moment because I, I write too much, and that takes up all my dang time.

Sarah:  I understand that problem very well.  Can I ask what you’re working on right now?  Can you tell us about your next Tingler?

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, yeah, well, the next book is probably not a Tingler in the – well, it, it depends be-, because I am working on a book, but it is one that not a Tingler, so if a big-time, big-time event happens and I may have to, you know, put, put this on the side and write a quick Tingler about, you know, maybe aliens come down to Earth if that happens, or, or maybe, like, if a, if there’s a big-time racecar or I, I don’t know what.

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tingle:  So all kinds of things can happen in the world, but right, right now I’m working on a book called the Chuck’s Guide, Chuck Tingle’s Guide to Sport [Dr. Chuck Tingle’s Complete Guide to Sport].  It’s a sequel to my book name of Chuck Tingle’s Guide to Romance [Dr. Chuck Tingle’s Complete Guide to Romance], and it is all about sports and the way of hard buds and horsing around and wrestling for points.

Sarah:  Wow.  When do you plan on having this book published, and how, how many sports are you going to discuss?  This sounds amazing and just in time for the Olympics.

Dr. Tingle:  Well, I would like to have it done, done by then, but these are longer than Tinglers.

Sarah:  Yes.

Dr. Tingle:  They’re, they’re much longer and much more comprehensive, so hopefully it’s done by then, and son name of Jon likes to watch the football games, and –

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Dr. Tingle:  – and I’ve watched them with him, and I understand most teams and who is the most handsome quarterback, and so I like to watch with son Jon, and then, then we’ll learn this way, so hopefully done by football time, which he says is coming soon, and then I said, well, I believe it would be even better if it was done by Olympics, and we, in book, will, we will talk about all sports.  I have just finished section on baseball and I, now I am talking about, well, what makes basketball so hard and what makes all the men so tall and handsome.

Sarah:  Those are very hard topics to, to discuss in a, in a, in a book-length work.  I mean, there’s a lot to say about those.  Is there a sport that best proves that love is real, or does all sport prove that love is real?

Dr. Tingle:  Well, I could, I could not say yet.  I’m still doing research for my book.  It is hard to say.  I think that the, that, that this is a personal pound preference and that all who enjoy sport understand learning your body in front of all the watching buckaroos, and then that’s the most important is, is showing that, that you understand your body in a handsome way and, and on the TV but also, that, that sportsmanship is real, so when, when you lose the big game, you can get mad about it sometimes, but then, then afterwards, maybe go give a nice hug and a kiss to, to the other team’s player that you think is the cutest.

Sarah:  That’s, that’s a very powerful message of sportsmanship too.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes.  That is, hopefully that is the most important point of the book.

Sarah:  Well, Dr. Tingle, I am, I am really very honored that you took all of this time to speak with me.  Thank you so much for, for answering all of my really nosy questions!

Dr. Tingle:  Oh, then that is okay.  This has been wonderful, and you are a true buck, and you, you prove love by making this.  It makes me so happy to talk to, to such a nice lady buck about, about all the things that we can do when devils strike and all the things we can do to prove love makes the world a, a better place with good days ahead.  That is so nice, and I thank you, thank you for having me.

Sarah:  Oh, it was honestly my pleasure, and I, I completely agree.  One of the things that I love about the romance genre is that it is about empathy and hope, and like you said, it is about proving love, that is, that it exists and that it’s important and that it has value.  And –

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, yes.

Sarah:  – I hadn’t thought about it until I’ve been listening to you this past hour, how much your work has in common with romance, which is probably why so many romance readers are fans of yours.

Dr. Tingle:  Yes, I, I think so.  I think that any, any books who are, that are written to think, oh, well, maybe I can open this up and for a brief moment of time be, be reminded that love is real, and that is a very important service, and, and as is the way of romance, and you make bucks and lady bucks hard, and they can understand love, and that is so important because, and then with the world, there’re all kinds of devils, and sometimes it’s good to have a thing where the people can go and understand love is real.

[music]

Sarah:  And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my interview with Chuck Tingle.  I hope that that was as surreal and inspiring for you as it was for me.  It was easily one of the most interesting and really inspiring episodes that I have recorded, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.  I want to thank Dr. Tingle for taking the time to talk to me and for giving me permission to use both of his pieces of music.

I will have information about what these songs are in just a moment, but if you are on the treadmill or walking around or walking the dogs or knitting or dyeing yarn or doing all of the things that you do when you listen to a podcast, and you’re thinking, I want to buy all of these books but I can’t because my hands are covered with dye because I’m dyeing yarn, well, do not worry.  If you go to smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, you will find the podcast entry for this particular episode, and I will have links to all of the books that I mentioned in the intro, many of Chuck’s bestselling titles, and the books that he and I discussed during the episode.

I also have some things to tell you about, including an opportunity to get four – one, two, three, four! – four free books from authors that you will definitely want to read.  So are you ready?  Here we go.

This podcast was brought to you by M. O’Keefe’s Burn Down the Night.  Set in the world of her bestselling book Everything I Left Unsaid, Burn Down the Night follows a beautiful con woman who takes a bad-boy biker hostage in this edgy, seductive novel, on sale August 9th.

The transcript for this episode is being sponsored by four authors.  They are award-winning, bestselling individuals, all of whom prove love is real, by name of Kit Rocha, Courtney Milan, Alyssa Cole, and Alisha Rai.  Buds, bucks, and lady bucks can click on the link in the podcast entry or go to kitrocha.com/exclusive-offer.  That’s K-I-T-R-O-C-H-A dot com slash exclusive dash offer to download a free book from each of these lady buckaroos.  Trust me, you want to check this out; it’s pretty great.

I have some compliments to give out, and this is one of my favorite parts of the podcast, so let’s do this.

To Nita G., aliens are currently studying your life as an example of Earthly excellence.

To Stephanie H., you represent all the good and best ways and are a most excellent and true buckaroo.

To JR, you are the type of friend who is valued, admired, and essential to happiness.

Elizabeth S., if someone says that’s amazing, how did she do that, there is a 97% chance they’re talking about you.

Tina B., you are the human personification of a double scoop of ice cream with sprinkles on top and really good chocolate hidden inside the cone, which never leaks.

And to Katelyn R., if and when we achieve world peace and the recipe for perfect desserts, it will be largely due to your being incredibly awesome at everything that you do.

If you are wondering what is going on, I invite you to have a look at our Patreon campaign.  By listener request, I set up a Patreon, which is at Patreon.com/SmartBitches.  It’s kind of like Kickstarter, only instead of a single project you support an ongoing program.  So if you wish to become a patron of the podcast, you can make a monthly pledge starting with as little as one dollar to help me reach goals like transcripts for all of the episodes in the archives that don’t have one yet.  You can see the rewards and the options at Patreon.com/SmartBitches, and if you’ve had a look at the page, shared it, talked about it, or made a pledge, I want to say thank you for being truly excellent.

If you have questions or comments or suggestions or you’re dying to suggest another amazing person for me to interview, I am all ears.  You can email the show at [email protected], and I have more voicemail from you guys telling me about the romance that turned you into a romance fan, and if you would like to add your book to our collection of truly powerful, powerful pieces of literature, you can call and leave a message at 1-201-371-3272.  Let us know what book made you a romance reader, because I’m super curious.

And the music!  Oh, the music.  We have two original songs in this episode, both courtesy of Dr. Chuck Tingle and used with his permission.  Our intro song was “True Buckaroo,” and our unmistakable outro music, “I Wanna Get Hard with My Buds,” both provided by Dr. Chuck Tingle and available on SoundCloud, and I know you want both of these songs, so of course I will have links in the entry where you can find and download them, each one, for your enjoyment as you listen.

Thank you again for tuning in and listening and for all the most excellent reviews you have left in different places about the podcast.  I really appreciate that, and I’m really honored that you hang out with me every Friday and we talk and listen about books, or I talk and you listen, or maybe you talk back, because that’s awesome.  I love hearing that you talk back to yourself because you want to talk to me.  You should call me; it’d be great!

On behalf of Dr. Chuck Tingle, everyone here, and myself, we wish you the very best of reading.  Have a great weekend.

[buckaroo music!]

*special note: Garlic Knitter and I were unsure if this was “hearts and butts and butts’ hearts” or “hearts and bucks and bucks’ hearts.”