319. Realistic Characters and Even More Realistic Settings: An Interview with Sarah Morgan

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 319 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me today is Sarah Morgan! There’s a lot of Sarah in this podcast. Today we are going to talk to Sarah Morgan, who I have known for a while now, and I’ve interviewed her on the podcast before. Her latest book, The Christmas Sisters, is out, so we talk about her latest novel and the strange vagaries of staggered releases for books, which happens very often to her titles between the US and the UK and elsewhere. Because this is her eighty-fifth book – wow – we talk a good bit about writing, both the discipline and the routine she follows, as well as her strategies for setting and character. Here’s a hint: pick a real location and then make up the village or town yourself. Other writing tips she shares include where to find excellent details for making a setting realistic; how to choose the setting so it becomes an additional character; how the perspectives of writing Harlequin Presents, single title romance, and women’s fiction is a lot like a camera lens; the empowerment of accepting one’s own creative process and trusting one’s editor; and the importance of routine and scheduling time for the writing and then the business of writing. I also have questions in this interview from podcast Patreon community members, and they are excellent questions, so thank you to Ann, Karoline, and Verity for your questions for this interview.

This week’s podcast and podcast transcript are brought to you by A Brand New Ending by Jennifer Probst, available for pre-order now from Montlake Publishing. If you like second-chance romances, writer heroes, and wise but guarded heroines, you’ll love this story of love rewritten from New York Times bestselling author Jennifer Probst. Ophelia Bishop was a lovestruck teenage girl when she and Kyle Kimpton chased their dreams to Hollywood. Kyle’s dreams came true, but Ophelia’s did not. When Kyle chose his career over their relationship, Ophelia returned home to rural New York to run the family’s B & B — wiser and more guarded against foolish fantasies. Now Kyle has come crashing back into her life, and all her defenses are down. Kyle can’t think of a better place to write his latest screenplay than his hometown. After all, that was where he met the heart of his inspiration — his first love. He knows the damage that he caused Ophelia, and he wants a chance to mend their relationship. If anyone can prove to Ophelia that Happily Ever Afters aren’t only for the movies, it should be him. As much as Ophelia’s changed, she still has feelings for Kyle, but her heart has been broken before, and she knows that Kyle could run back to Hollywood at any time. She gave up her dreams once; maybe she can dare to change her own love story…one last time. Readers who love smart dialogue and clever characters combined with emotional attempts to repair a story gone wrong will love A Brand New Ending by Jennifer Probst. It’s available now for pre-order from Montlake Publishing.

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I will have information after the show about the music you are listening to. You get to hear me attempt to pronounce Scotch Gaelic. I’m not very good at it, but I do my best. I also will have a preview of what’s coming up next week on Smart Bitches – next week is going to be a very fun week – and I have a terrible joke, and it’s really bad, and I love it so much. And I know a lot of you keep listening to the end just for the terrible jokes, because you like them too. It’s so great!

As usual, I will have links to all of the books that we mention in this episode, as well as links to some of the things that we discuss, pictures, Instagram, links to posts that I’ve made, and some links to her previous podcast interviews as well.

But that’s all I have for the intro, so let’s do a podcast. Shall we do that? Let us do that. On with the show.

[music]

Ms. Morgan: Well, I’m Sarah Morgan, and, and I live in England, as you can probably tell, near London, and I, my latest book is The Christmas Sisters, which came out in the US on Tuesday, and for your UK listeners, it’s coming out in the UK on November the 1st, and actually, this is the first time that the books come out in the US before they UK, which has created some consternation amongst my UK readers.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: I was just going to say, I’m, I thought that we usually get your books later.

Ms. Morgan: You do! But this is quite exciting; it’s US first, so yeah, it’s quite exciting, and next, the next book is actually almost simultaneous, so I consider that to be, like, real cool. They’re about three days apart, and I’ve never had it that close, so that’s amazing. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Oh, that’s good!

Ms. Morgan: Well, it does help, you know, because when you’re talking, you’re talking about it, I’m talking about it now with US readers, and UK readers are saying, oh God, don’t want to wait a month for it! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah.

Ms. Morgan: So it is quite difficult when there’s a gap and, you know, vice versa as well, so.

Ms. Wendell: I just, I don’t understand staggering releases around the world. Like, they sometimes do that with movies?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. I mean, I guess they look at, you know, they have to look at their individual schedules and what else –

Ms. Wendell: Yep.

Ms. Morgan: – is on the shelf. I mean, I have to say that this is, you know, twenty-, September 25th, and it’s early for a Christmas book, but obviously the US take them at that time quite happily. I don’t think the UK would take – you know, the retailers, ‘cause obviously the stores have to agree to stock them –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – and over here it would be unlikely that they would take them in September. It, it isn’t a good time to have a Christmas book on the shelf. Although, you know, it’s not really a Christmas – you know, it’s, it’s a festive story, and it’s a winter story, but it’s not so heavily Christmas that, you know, if Christmas isn’t a thing for you, it wouldn’t matter at all in this book.

Ms. Wendell: Good to know! I, I can say that, oh gosh, I began seeing fall decorating supplies in August, and I’m sure the next time I go to Costco I’ll see Christmas trees and Jesus. I love when I find Jesus in Costco; it makes me so amused. Like, there’ll be a big nativity, little nativity; like, I can buy Jesus at Costco! There’s nothing more American than –

Ms. Morgan: [Laughs] And do you get the music as well? Do you get –

Ms. Wendell: Oh!

Ms. Morgan: – like, listening to Christmas carols and, you know, Christmas –

Ms. Wendell: Oh gosh.

Ms. Morgan: – just Christmas songs from the middle of September?

Ms. Wendell: Yes. Christmas can be very weird, right?

Ms. Morgan: It is weird, but you know, when you’re a writer, we don’t really have the seasons, so I, people, people get, say, oh, how can you celebrate Christmas in September? But the truth is that I’m writing this book completely out of season. You know, you –

Ms. Wendell: Oh right, like in the summer, right?

Ms. Morgan: Oh yeah, totally! Well, not quite the summer. For me, I not, almost always – and I’ve written loads – I almost always start around November, but I won’t finish it till about March, so Christmas is well and gone by the time I’m – you know, the tree is down, and in fact, in order to help myself feel Christmas-y afterwards, I put together my little grotto with a fake Christmas tree and a little stuffed moose and a few things which I shove on my desk, and I try and focus on that so that when spring’s out and the crocuses are in bud, I’m still looking at my little Christmas tree. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: I think that’s very smart strategy.

Ms. Morgan: Well, you have to do whatever it takes to get yourself in the Christmas mood, don’t you?

Ms. Wendell: Oh, great, it’s 38 degrees Celsius today –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah!

Ms. Wendell: – I think I’ll write Christmas songs! Yay!

Ms. Morgan: But I was really lucky with this particular book, because at the end of March we had – we don’t get a lot of snow really, as you know. Well, certainly not –

Ms. Wendell: Yeah.

Ms. Morgan: – down south, where I am. They do in Scotland, which is why I set the book in Scotland, but we don’t get a lot near London. And suddenly, at the end of March, we had massive fall of snow, which is really unusual. It’s very late, and it was just perfect timing for me finishing off the book, so –

Ms. Wendell: [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: – it felt like that had been sent along specially to put me in a wintery mood. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: So tell me about The Christmas Sisters. Who are the women in this book?

Ms. Morgan: Well, basically, these, these three sisters lost their parents in a climbing accident. I’m really interested in mountains and climbing, as you probably know, ‘cause we’ve talked about hiking before –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – and these three sisters lost their parents in a climbing accident when they were young, and they were adopted by their mother’s best friend, and she has always wanted to sort of make life the best it can be for them, but it’s not that easy, and the one time all three – and they’re grown up now, these girls, though; they’re not little; they’re, they’re adults – the one time they all get together is at Christmas, and the mother, Suzanne, wants it to be perfect, as most people do. They have really high expectations of Christmas, and of course it – [laughs] – or, or indeed any family gathering or celebration; it doesn’t just happen –

Ms. Wendell: Yeah.

Ms. Morgan: – at Christmas – and the girls each find it a really difficult time of year, so when they get together it’s very complicated. And the three heroines are really quite different, and one of the things that I’ve explored in the book really is how the same event has had a completely different impact on the three girls. Obviously, they were different ages, you know, when they lost their parents, but also the relationship with their parents was different. So the eldest, Hannah, she’s a real workaholic, and the last thing she wants is to go home, because she really tries to detach from all the family stuff. And then the middle sister, Beth, is married, and she has two young children, but she desperately wants to go back to work and is feeling a bit of that maternal guilt about, you know, should she leave them, is it okay to go back to work, and how does she kind of divide herself into two pieces, I should say?

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: And the youngest one, Posy, is the only one who does actually still live in Scotland at home, and she’s, she doesn’t even really remember the incident, so of, of all of them, she’s probably the least affected, but she is very conscious of how, how much her, her adoptive mother – who is, who is her mother, you know; I mean, Suzanne is undoubtedly the mother here – she’s very conscious of, you know, how much, how much effort she’s put in. She feels such loyalty and love towards her, and gratitude for everything that, you know, the home that she’s given them, and the life, and so she’s actually really squashing down her own needs a bit, really, to sort of please her mother, so she’s got her own issues bubbling along as well. But then there’s a lot of sibling tension – [laughs] – and a lot of humour – I hope there’s a lot of humour as well – when the three of them get together.

Ms. Wendell: So this book is set in the Scottish Highlands.

Ms. Morgan: It is, it is, and you know, picking a setting for my Christmas book – and I say it like that because I, I do a Christmas book every year, and this must be about my – and, and there have been years when I’ve done a couple, so I think this must be about my twentieth Christmas book – and it’s always a challenge because it has to be somewhere with global appeal, you know, because my books do sell really well globally, you know, in European countries, well, all over the place, so it has to be somewhere that feels lovely and wintery and everyone wants to go to. You know, I, I set Sleigh Bells in the Snow in Vermont, and everybody’s emailing me saying, where is this exact place? So it has to be a place that really is a dream destination for people, and of course everybody does know Scotland. You know, it’s, it’s really popular, and not just since series like Outlander and The Crown. I think Scotland has always had this sort of romantic image as a dream destination, and indeed for good reason, you know? I went there on my honeymoon, actually. We went to the Highlands –

Ms. Wendell: Really!

Ms. Morgan: I did! Yeah, there’s a little personal fact. You don’t often get those personal details from me, do you? Yeah, we did. We went to the Highlands on our honeymoon because we love walking and, you know, generally being outdoors, and I’d read an article, actually, in a travel magazine, where a journalist had said that this particular part of Scotland was one of her three favorite places in the world, and I thought, ooh! That’s quite an endorsement! So, you know, we decided to explore the area, and it was absolutely beautiful. You know, I mean, it really is absolutely beautiful, so it was really a great setting for a book. And the setting, it is, it is the Highlands, but I always make the actual village, I make that up. I don’t have –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – somewhere specific. Otherwise, you’re really quite restricted as a – you know, for example, if I want to have a library and I pick a proper place, somebody’s going to write to me and say, oh, the library shut a decade ago! You know, and –

Ms. Wendell: Right.

Ms. Morgan: – and by the way, the pub is never open on a Saturday, and – that would be a miserable village – but somebody will know a place, and I think it’s better if everybody comes to it fresh, without, you know, preconceived ideas about what a place is like, so although it’s the Highlands, the actual village where this book is set is, is, is made-up, fictitious, so that I can actually play with it in any way I like.

Ms. Wendell: So what were some of the elements that made this place unique? Like, what did you do to make it clear that it was the Highlands? What elements did this setting have that some of your other books didn’t?

Ms. Morgan: Well, I think the village atmosphere – and this is very interesting, because we went, we, we went on our honeymoon, and then we went back, actually, to the same place last year, where we did a slightly bigger, a slightly bigger vacation, but we went back virtually to the same place, and this time, because I knew I was setting a book there, I really paid attention to the local communities in the village, and it’s fascinating. For example, you go into the village shop – and there really is only one shop, and it sells absolutely everything you would need – and you look at the notice board, and I spent about an hour reading this notice board, because it can tell you so much about village life, you know. The bus, the bus for the elderly –

Ms. Wendell: Oh yes! It’s so true!

Ms. Morgan: – you know, the elderly people, the bus will run at 4 p.m., you know, to, to bring you to the shop, and I’m thinking, okay, well, I’m going to use that in my book. That, that kind of thing. You know, you look at, you look at what they’re advertising on the, on the village notice board, and you get a real snapshot of, of village life. It’s, it’s fascinating. So those, I wanted to give the impression of this sort of community feeling because I think in the winter in Scotland, in these small villages, you, there really is a community feeling. You do have to rely on each other, and I think that’s, you know, that’s, that’s quite a genuine thing. We’re not in the middle of Edinburgh; we’re not in a city. I, I wanted it to be out in the middle of nowhere, because I need – to write the sort of Christmas book that has the feel that people want, that wintery feel, you need snow; you need tree, you know, beautiful forest; you need mountains – I needed mountains because my youngest heroine, you know, is a mountain, is a mountain guide and a climbing instructor, so I had to have that close by, and of course, that’s, that’s all right  there on your doorstep. And the place is just totally steeped in history, of course. You know, you drive through Glencoe and you can, I don’t know, you can sort of feel the ghosts, I think. It’s, it’s a quite ghostly place, but also absolutely stunning. Yeah, so I pulled all sorts of things from looking at notice boards and actually, you know, sort of walking around Scottish villages.

Ms. Wendell: I remember recently – have you ever seen – this is actually a British TV show that I watched illegally – beg your pardon; it wasn’t ever released here in the States.

Ms. Morgan: [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Like, I can’t even get DVDs of it that, that will play in American players, but did you ever watch Great Canal Journeys?

Ms. Morgan: I think I saw a couple of them, because there’ve, there’ve been more than one; there’ve been several all over the place.

Ms. Wendell: Yes, several.

Ms. Morgan: Yes.

Ms. Wendell: So it was Timothy West and Prunella Scales, and they have long, narrow canal boats.

Ms. Morgan: Yes.

Ms. Wendell: They did one where they crossed Scotland –

Ms. Morgan: Oh right.

Ms. Wendell: – from one side to the other, and I was like, everything in this television show is porn. It’s like nature porn.

Ms. Morgan: Wonderful, yeah.

Ms. Wendell: Like, when you go, when you go up, like when you went on your vacation, did you just sort of hang out the window like the, I can’t believe I’m seeing this with my eyeballs?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, totally.

Ms. Wendell: Because it’s, it’s unlike –

Ms. Morgan: Absolutely.

Ms. Wendell: – anything I’ve seen before!

Ms. Morgan: It’s absolutely amazing. I mean, the scenery is just stunning; I, I mean, stunning. And so varied! Now, I, I mean, it’s absolutely stunning, and there’s, you know, there are wonderful routes around – I didn’t see the can-, that canal one, actually. I’ve seen others, ‘cause they’ve been, we’ve got loads of canals here, and it’s a, it’s quite a fun holiday, providing you don’t pick a route with millions of locks, because then you have to keep –

Ms. Wendell: Yes.

Ms. Morgan: – jumping off the boat and heaving.

Ms. Wendell: Opening –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Heaving –

Ms. Wendell: Saw that!

Ms. Morgan: – heaving locks open and closing them again and, yeah, and I’m very clumsy, so I’d probably fall in.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, exactly. Now, I didn’t see the Scottish one, but, you know, they’ve got the sort of cycling routes now, right – I think it’s called Route 500 – right round the coast, you know, the North Coast, and –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: I mean, I absolutely love it. I, I would really love to go up there for a month and drive really far north and do more of the northern is-, you know the islands that are more northerly, because I’ve done the –

Ms. Wendell: Like the Hebrides –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, exactly. I’ve done the sort of Inner Hebrides, but I’d love to do much further north and Cape Wrath and, you know, really, yeah, wild scenery. I think it would be fabulous.

Ms. Wendell: One of the questions I have from my Patreon community is from Ann, and she wanted to know, how do you pick the places to do a series? You, you’ve been in Vermont, New York City, Puffin Island in Maine, now Scotland, and you’ve definitely done London and other cities. How do you pick the places to set a book or a series?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, well, that is a really good question. Hello, Ann! A really good question, and it is quite tricky, because I am trying to find somewhere that means something to most people, so I don’t really want to set a book somewhere and have half the readers who read it think, I don’t even know where that is; I can’t imagine it. So for example, my next book – you’re right, I have done Manhattan, and of course the other, the other thing is, I want a setting that’s going to add to the story that I’m writing. So a setting is really, you know, another character. Done well, a setting’s another character, and you know you’ve done it well when people write to you saying, I really want to go there. You know, where is it, this specific place?

Ms. Wendell: The best, yes!

Ms. Morgan: And I get a lot of that, you know, especially with Vermont. And Manhattan, you know, I get loads of people saying, oh, I’m going to Manhattan, and I’m taking your books! And I’m thinking, oh gosh –

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: – I hope that works out okay! But of course somewhere like Manhattan gives you so much scope for different sorts of stories, because –

Ms. Wendell: Oh yeah.

Ms. Morgan: – you know, the different neighborhoods in Manhattan are so different. And my next book is set in Paris, because Paris, again, is somewhere that everybody immediately has their own idea of Paris. So I think it, I think the answer is, I try and pick somewhere that I think my readers are going to love. Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: That makes sense! I mean, it’s fun to write in a destination that you might want to encourage people to visit and, and –

Ms. Morgan: Exactly. Exactly.

Ms. Wendell: – showing how much the characters love –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – where they are.

Ms. Morgan: Exactly. And it does have to have relevance to the story. I mean, obviously –

Ms. Wendell: Of course!

Ms. Morgan: – it has to fit with the story, but, but yeah, the setting is very important, but I do try and find somewhere that will work, I think, for all readers, you know, everywhere.

Ms. Wendell: You were writing Harlequin Presents, then single title, and now you’re writing what I know in the States is typically called women’s fiction. Does that sound about right?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right, and, and they call it here, they call it the same thing here as well. I don’t know why it has to be women’s fiction, you know.

Ms. Wendell: Right.

Ms. Morgan: Nobody has men’s fiction, but anyway –

Ms. Wendell: I call it dick lit.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, it, yes – [laughs] – exactly! It is, it is called that, and that’s exactly how, yeah, how we look at it. And I think really it’s just about looking at broader relationships than, than romance, so The Christmas Sisters is, there’s a lot of sibling relationship in, in there, as well as romance. You know, so just a slightly broader look at relationships, really.

Ms. Wendell: That was actually my question. When you look at Presents versus single title versus women’s fiction, is it sort of like zooming out –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – and including more and more people, more relationships, more setting, more of everything?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, it’s exactly that. I mean, I think with the series books it’s very much a close, close-up zoom lens, as you say, and it’s very much, the focus is on the, the two leads, whether it’s hero and heroine or whatever, hero/hero, it is very much on the two leads, and you don’t see much round it, so you don’t really get to see them interacting with other people in different parts of their lives. It’s really very much the focus on their relationship and the journey that they each go through together. I think the single title books and the women’s fiction just take a much broader view, and that’s interesting to me, because of course people behave differently in different areas of their life, different aspects of their life. You know, they might be one thing at work and something completely different at home. You might be one thing with your sister and something completely different with your mother, and that fascinates me, the way that people, you know, react differently to different people. I think it tells you a lot about character. I think it makes, it gives the opportunity to write, to put more depth in the characters and to just include more complexity, really, and I’m really enjoying that at this stage.

Ms. Wendell: And plus you write more family relationships and –

Ms. Morgan: Yes.

Ms. Wendell: – friendships. There’s more – well, I mean, especially in Presents, the, the format and the word count is so tight –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – there’s not a lot of room for a lot of people in there.

Ms. Morgan: There isn’t, because you, you really want to get that relationship, you know, the relationship, the intensity of the relationship front and center, so you don’t really want a lot of other stuff, or it detracts from the intensity of the relationship, and that –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – is the focus of the story, so that’s the very nature of it. You don’t really want anything else to detract from that.

Ms. Wendell: Ann also asked me, or asked you, rather, was it difficult going from writing shorter-length Harlequin to longer-length series and then standalone novels?

Ms. Morgan: Do you know, it wasn’t really, because I really wanted to do it. I was so ready to do it, and obviously I was nervous. I was scared I wouldn’t be able to do it, but I suppose it’s been a step thing for me. You know, I did the series first, which –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – did have, you know, I still had the friendships, but it’s very much, the focus was on one hero and heroine for me in those books, and now it’s, it’s broader again, and it is, I suppose it’s slightly harder to keep track of everything. You have to make sure that you’ve not dropped any loose ends, that you’ve followed all the characters, but I really, I’m, I really enjoy it as well, so it did feel different, but, well, I’ve done three, and it’s been okay! So touch wood, I’m not about to dry up.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: I hope not! Now I’ve said that, I’m worried! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Well, Karoline [Care-o-lin] asked me – or maybe it’s Karoline [Care-o-line]; if I’m saying it wrong, I apologize – first, I love Sarah Morgan! Yay!

Ms. Morgan: Oh, hi, Karoline! Thank you! I love you back!

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: Her Harlequin Presents are some of my favorites, particularly Lost to the Desert Warrior and Playing by the Greek’s Rules.

Ms. Morgan: Oh!

Ms. Wendell: I wonder if she will do any more writing for Harlequin Presents, or if you’re only focusing on longer-length novels for now.

Ms. Morgan: Do you know, that’s so funny, ‘cause Lost to the Desert Warrior was one, I started, it’s one of my, it’s off the wall, and I started it, and I said to my editor, oh, what am I doing? This book’s just such complete fantasy, and do you know, I think it’s probably one of my most popular books. It’s hilarious –

Ms. Wendell: [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: – it really is. And then Playing by the Greek’s Rules, I wrote a series called Puffin Island as, as part of my, my second single title was Puffin Island, and I wanted to do a Presents that linked with it, so that’s what Playing by the Greek’s Rules is, ‘cause it was really nice for me to have that shorter form as well, including some of the characters. At the moment, I don’t have any plans to write more, but you know, I don’t really have long, long, long-term plans; I just like to do what I’m doing now, and I will definitely be doing more women’s fiction. I don’t think at the moment I’ve got the capacity to do anymore Presents, so I don’t have any plans, but I would, certainly wouldn’t ever say I will never do another one.

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: But at the moment, no, no plans. But I do have a backlist of about eighty-five books! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: I was going to say, there’s no shortage of Presents with your names on ‘em!

Ms. Morgan: So I don’t think readers are short. Yeah, I, I think wrote about thirty Presents, so I, you know, I’ve got quite a few out there, so they can perhaps pick through the others while they’re waiting.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: Verity asked, actually, a question that relates to something you just said. She said that one of my favorite things is to get glimpses of previous Happily Ever Afters in the sequels. Are you ever tempted to drop couples from one series or even from, from Presents into other books like you did with the Puffin Island and Greek’s Rules?

Ms. Morgan: Not with Presents, because Puffin Island was the last one that I did –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – so I basically haven’t had the, you know, facility to do it again, but I’ve certainly dropped previous characters. For example, I did six books set in Manhattan, and the final book in Manhattan, they all go to Snow Crystal, which was my first series set in Vermont, and they all go there for a wedding, so you see some of the characters from that, so I like doing that; that’s fun. And certainly my series books, I’ve done that a little. And in, in the first three Manhattan books, the girls actually grew up on Puffin Island. I sort of took the opposite view, so the first series, the people, the three heroines on Puffin Island just absolutely loved that island life, and then the Manhattan, I took three girls who’d grown up there and thought, get me out of here. You know, I don’t want to live here; get me into the city, so I sort of took the opposite view, so they are, they are sort of slightly linked. The women’s fictions are not; they’re completely standalone, completely standalone, each one.

Ms. Wendell: So there’s not going to be just like a, a random Doukakis’s Apprentice character, like, hey, how you doing!

Ms. Morgan: No.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: No!

Ms. Wendell: She was probably one of my favorites of your heroines –

Ms. Morgan: Oh!

Ms. Wendell: – because she just had such a, an interesting sense of self.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. Polly. Yeah. Polly Prince, yeah. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah, she just, she just was, she – one of my favorite things about characters in general is when they are confidently who they are?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: And I love that about her.

Ms. Morgan: She was fun to write, actually. That whole book was fun, actually. Yeah. ‘Cause that was the beginning of that hot desking. You know, when –

Ms. Wendell: Yeah.

Ms. Morgan: – you know, in the old days you used to have a desk at work, and then the fashion changed and companies were saving money, so they did this hot desk thing where you just sat wherever there was space, and I –

Ms. Wendell: Yeah.

Ms. Morgan: – that’s when I put that, ‘cause it was just, at the time, it was such a radical thing, and I, you know, I had, I knew people who were sort of keeping all their stuff in their boot, because they still needed – sorry, trunk, you would say the trunk of their car –

Ms. Wendell: Yes.

Ms. Morgan: – because they needed –

Ms. Wendell: It’s all right, I’m bilingual when it comes to car parts.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, yeah. [Laughs] I’m –

Ms. Wendell: I watch enough baking show.

Ms. Morgan: But readers who are not bilingual will be thinking, oh, what, they took their shoes off when they, they have, they have textbooks and things in, in their, in their shoes? No, they kept it in the trunk of their car, because they had so much stuff that they would have liked to have kept on a desk, and they weren’t given one. So that was what I was addressing in that, that story, and it still makes me laugh, actually, the hot desking. Yeah. Of course, it’s common now. Everybody –

Ms. Wendell: Yes.

Ms. Morgan: does that now.

Ms. Wendell: Now, you have had a, a sort of unique, singular experience that you’ve been consistently working with the same editor for many, many years now. Is that right?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. Well, I ha-, I’ve been very lucky, very lucky with my editors, actually. The editor that I have now, Flo, who is absolutely fantastic, I have had her since – actually, funny enough, Lost to the Desert Warrior. We did that Presents, and then I moved to doing single title, so we did twelve single titles, another Presents, and we’ve done three women’s fiction, so yeah, a lot, and she’s, she’s great. And before that, I had another fabulous editor, Kim, and we did forty-seven books together, series, you know, so I’ve been really lucky.

Ms. Wendell: Great day in the morning.

Ms. Morgan: So I think I’ve been with Flo for five years. I think the two of us have been together for five years, and it’s great because, you know, we know each other so well. She knows my writing, I trust her completely, and she’s absolutely fantastic, so, you know, she picks up things that I wouldn’t have seen, and it’s just, yeah, it’s fantastic. I am so lucky. I think a great editor, a great editor is, is a writer’s best friend. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: So how do you work with the editorial process? Like, what is your process like working with Flo?

Ms. Morgan: Oh, my process is really messy, but she’s got used to that now, and I’ve got used to it too.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: For years, for years I tried to change it. You know, you think, oh, there has to be a better way to do this, so you look at what everyone else is doing, and you try and do that, and you realize it just doesn’t work. At the end of the day, it’s the creative process, and you have to do, you know, what works for you. And I do have an outline, you know, I have to produce an outline, rough outline, but I don’t always stick to it, and for me, all the best ideas come as I write. You know –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – I start to hear the characters’ voices as I’m writing. And what I tend to do with Flo, I do send her, so I’ll send her about a third of the book and say, what do you think? Because she’ll always come up with some really smart observations, and then that way I’m not – I could never write the entire book and then send it to her, because I would have, you know, gone down a dead end somewhere, and then I’d be rewriting a hundred and ten thousand words instead of, you know, editing thirty, and that way – so, so I will send her a chunk – I mean a fairly large chunk – and then we’ll have a chat, which is always really fun. She’s excellent at brainstorming ideas, and we’ll talk about, you know, the characters. And then I’ll work on that and send her the next third, so I guess she probably gets it in three, three chunks, really, so that by the time we get to the end, you know, we’ve pretty much discussed the whole book, really. It’s a pro- – I think every writer’s different – it’s a process that works for us. I know plenty of writers who wouldn’t dream of showing their work to anyone before it was completely finished, but, you know, Flo’s fabulous. I trust her, and she’s, she’s wonderful at, at seeing things, so, you know, I, I’d be stupid not to use her brain.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: And when you work together that long, you build up a sort of a, a trust that you can work with someone through a process that is so difficult.

Ms. Morgan: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, I’d find it really scary being an editor. You know, you get, sometimes you get a really, really rough piece of work, and how do you, how are you not awake at night thinking – [gasps] – is she ever going to be able turn this into something that anyone’s going to want to read? And is she going to do it on a deadline? You know, I’m, I’d be awake the whole time, but Flo’s very relaxed. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: That’s lovely. That’s a good thing to have. With your current projects, does your research also involve looking at family relationships and different family problems? Because you haven’t been writing those in, in the more focused books. Now you’re sort of zooming out to include everybody’s problems!

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Ms. Wendell: What are some of the things that you’ve been researching?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, well, the book that I’ve just finished, literally just finished, is called One Summer in Paris, and that, that’s next year’s book, the one that’s almost simultaneous publication in April, and the basic story is that the main, the, the heroine is, one of the heroines is Grace, and she’s in her late forties, and she’s celebrating her twenty-fifth wedding anniversary. She’s booked this amazing trip to Paris, she’s really exciting, excited, and then her husband tells her that he wants a divorce, so she goes to Paris anyway, because she’s paid for the holiday and because it seems like a good idea, and there she meets up with an eighteen-year-old British girl – so Grace is American – she meets up with an eighteen-year-old British girl who’s escaping really difficult home problems, so this book deals with sort of alcohol dependence and what it’s like growing up with that, but also, a lot of the research that I did – and so, obviously, Grace’s husband, sorry, has had an affair, but I did an awful lot of research on that and looked at a lot of, you know, marital therapies, talking about, you know, whether, how you forgive an affair, or maybe you can’t forgive an affair, so, yeah, I was, I, I do do a lot of research on that, and also, actually, a lot of research about what it’s like growing up as a child of, you know, somebody with alcohol issues, so that too. So, yeah, I am researching quite a lot. Yeah. But I’ve al-, I’ve often done that, you know, because I wrote a lot of medical romances, and so I often had that type of research, you know, looking at different medical conditions and – but, yeah, not the sort of deep, deep problems that I’m perhaps looking at now.

Ms. Wendell: So what is your daily routine as a writer? I know you have a very cool shed in your backyard.

Ms. Morgan: No –

Ms. Wendell: I’m presuming you’re there now.

Ms. Morgan: I’m not, actually, ‘cause I don’t have an internet connection down there, ‘cause I wouldn’t do any –

Ms. Wendell: That’s why you have the shed! That’s the –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: So that’s where I closet myself when I want to write, and I’m not tempted by the internet. I can’t be tempted, because I can’t get onto the internet. [Laughs] So yeah.

Ms. Wendell: Can I include pictures of your, of your shed from your Instagram –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah!

Ms. Wendell: – in the show notes? I will definitely put –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, please do, if you want to, yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – some pictures, ‘cause it’s very cute!

Ms. Morgan: It is cute. It’s right down the bottom of the garden, and it’s great because, you know, I just have squirrels and birds, and my little favorite robin comes and sits. It’s, it’s really lovely, actually; it’s very peaceful. Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: And that’s where you write with no internet, no phone –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. Well, I do have my phone –

Ms. Wendell: – nothing.

Ms. Morgan: – these days, because things have got real busy, but I don’t, I don’t tend to look at it. You know, I try and make myself concentrate for spaces of time before I look at my phone, but no, I don’t, I don’t have internet, so if I want to do research, that has to be done separately. So, you know, I do try and focus on the words, and I am better doing that usually in the morning, but I, I end up working pretty long hours, really, as I think most writers do.

Ms. Wendell: So what is your routine like?

Ms. Morgan: So my routine is that I will get down to the office first thing, and I will, yeah, write, often read what I did before, and then often in the afternoons I will try and focus on, you know, any blogs or interviews that I’m supposed to be doing, promotion. You know, I have a, there will be a lot going on, actually, because I’m published in, you know, a lot in Europe, so I might have interviews for – like tomorrow I’m flying to Sweden, so I’m going to the Swedish Book Fair, and the week after that –

Ms. Wendell: Cool!

Ms. Morgan: – in Frankfurt for the Frankfurt Book Fair, and then week after that, I mean, at Turn the Page Bookstore! Yay! So, you know, that kind of thing’s busy, so, but I do get an awful lot from the European people as well to do, so, you know, sometimes I’ll make a video for Brazil. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s great! I really love having a global readership, because my readers are so warm and friendly, and you know, you talk about Instagram. I think Instagram is very global. I do, you know, I hear from a lot of readers on, on Instagram. They’ll message me, and it’s, it’s a really great way of staying in touch. So my day, I suppose, is a bit messy, you know, because at the end of the day, I think very few writers get huge chunks of time where they can just write, because there’s so many other things to do as well. You know, I might be looking at covers or talking about titles and, you know, promo plans for a lot of different countries, so it’s not, it’s not even just the US and the UK, so –

Ms. Wendell: Right.

Ms. Morgan: – it is pretty busy, but I’m very lucky.

Ms. Wendell: There’s the, yeah, there’s, like, the writing part and then the business part.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, there is, and you know, really, truthfully, I could make a full-time job out of the business part, so.

Ms. Wendell: Oh, it’s easy for it to creep into everything.

Ms. Morgan: Oh yeah, absolutely. So I think, really – you know, and I love to talk to readers, so I don’t cut that back. You know, I, I, I talk to readers a lot on Facebook and Instagram, so, you know, obviously that takes time as well.

Ms. Wendell: Of course!

Ms. Morgan: But I love that, I love that. I have lovely readers, and they’re so friendly and, and warm, and it’s great. It’s such privilege to hear from people just all over, you know, really. It’s great. So yeah, it’s very busy. I mean, I do work most days. And most writers can’t switch off anyway. You know, even when you’re not actually at the computer, you’re thinking about your characters, so –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – so that’s something that you tend to not be able to turn off, even when you’re supposedly not working. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah, you’re – I, I call it the Crockpot in the back of my brain. It’s always doing something.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. That’s right. That’s it exactly. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: So what are some of your favorite reader responses or reader comments that you’ve received? What are some things that you just really, really enjoyed?

Ms. Morgan: Oh, well, I do love it when a book has – obviously, you, absolutely you love it when somebody said that they, they’ve really enjoyed your book, but for example, Moonlight over Manhattan, last Christmas, which was my last Christmas book, the, the heroine, Harriet, had this thing where she, she tried to do one thing that scared her every single day.

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: Challenge, she called it Challenge Harriet, and I had so many letters from readers saying that it inspired them to actually force them to do a few things, and one woman who hadn’t left her house for three months because she was, you know, really, well, you know, afraid of leaving the house, something had happened, and she saw that, and she thought, I’m just going to do what Harriet does and just try and do a tiny bit each day, and so she did it.

Ms. Wendell: Oh wow.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, that was really, yeah, and then I have, I get quite sob-y sometimes when I read my messages. And then other people who, you know, say that they’ve been all night in intensive care by their, you know, dad or something, and the, you know, my book kept them company and kept them going. And we’ve all been there. I mean, you know, I use reading as a comfort as well. I’m sure you do.

Ms. Wendell: Oh yeah.

Ms. Morgan: So you know, it’s, it’s nice, but those are the sort of, you know, when it’s really meant something to someone, those are the sort of letters that are extra special, I think.

Ms. Wendell: It strikes me that that’s one of the sort of foundational elements of your characters, that there’s always one thing that they are deliberately working on.

Ms. Morgan: Mm.

Ms. Wendell: And they, they are –

Ms. Morgan: Well, now you say that, you might be right, but I’ve never thought it before! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah, they’re, they’re, they’re always, there is always something about your characters that they are working on in themselves. Like, the, the changes that they go through the, through the, through the story aren’t always just about, you know, meeting a person or connecting with a person, but they’re also always confronting or challenging themselves in some way.

Ms. Morgan: Hmm. Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: Is that something you do too, or is that a way of building character through a practice? Or both?

Ms. Morgan:  I do it, now you mention it. It’s one of those funny things you’ve, you know, people talk to you about how you write, and you think, oh, I don’t know, really; I just sit down and do it.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah!

Ms. Morgan: But, but I know, I just think that I’ve been doing it, and I don’t really want to question it in case looking at it, it stops happening.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: But you don’t –

Ms. Wendell: Yes, I know that fear!

Ms. Morgan: I know! You don’t want to think about how you ride a bike, ‘cause you’re going to fall off it. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah, don’t, don’t look too closely! This could, this could, this could end badly if you look too –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah! Exactly!

Ms. Wendell: – examine it too, too closely.

Ms. Morgan: Exactly! Oh, yeah. Well, now you mention it, I think I do do that with characters, actually. Yes, and do I do it myself? Well, maybe a little. I don’t know; I’m not as disciplined as I would like to be, so maybe not really. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: She says –

Ms. Morgan: I’m full of good ideas, and then I lapse.

Ms. Wendell: Yes, she’s not that disciplined, she says, after having written eighty-plus books.

Ms. Morgan: Well, yeah. No, I’m disciplined in that.

Ms. Wendell: [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: You can be disciplined in one area of your life. Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: Right.

Ms. Morgan: No, I know – yeah, that’s right! This is my eighty-fifth book, I think, The Christmas Sisters.

Ms. Wendell: Whoa, dude! Seriously, congratulations!

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, it is, and actually, I just delivered another one, so that’s eighty-six. Although eighty-five published.

Ms. Wendell: Damn!

Ms. Morgan: Eighty-five published. Yeah, I know!

Ms. Wendell: Okay!

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, I’m very lucky.

Ms. Wendell: You’re like the, the Anthony Trollope of romance.

Ms. Morgan: [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Although quite a, quite a, quite a bit more emotionally deft, I think.

Ms. Morgan: Oh well, I hope so.

Ms. Wendell: Although I am, say, I, my grandmother wanted me to read, for years, Barchester Towers, which is her favorite, or was her favorite of Trollope’s books, and she lent me a copy, and the text size was so small I was like –

Ms. Morgan: Oh.

Ms. Wendell: – I, I can’t read this. Then I found it on audiobook. I’m having the best time! [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: Oh yes. Yeah, they’re great, actually. I haven’t listened to it in audio, but, yeah, I’ve had it on in large font on Kindle.

Ms. Wendell: Yeah, right? I can’t read the – who, who are these people –

Ms. Morgan: I hate those tiny – I know!

Ms. Wendell: What? I can’t read this!

Ms. Morgan: I often, I often find that with the classics, actually, that the print is tiny! I don’t know why they do that.

Ms. Wendell: Right?!

Ms. Morgan: Why do they do that?

Ms. Wendell: I cannot. I, I’m so grateful when I can find them digitally or, or –

Ms. Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Wendell: – audio, even better, as a good performance.

Ms. Morgan: Mm-hmm. I love audio. Yeah, if, if – well, but you do have to like the narrator, don’t you?

Ms. Wendell: Oh yes, absolutely. There are some narrators where I’m just like, yeah, uh, no. Can’t do that.

Ms. Morgan: No.

Ms. Wendell: So you mentioned earlier that you have an outline and that you work in the morning. Do you have a daily word count that you’re trying to hit, or do you have, like, a, an arc of the plot that you’re trying to reach? You, do you have goals when you sit down?

Ms. Morgan: I do have goals. I do have goals, and then I always miss them.

[Laughter]

Ms. Morgan: I have daily goals, but I’ve learnt that I have to be flexible, because things do happen. Things do come in that I have to deal with –

Ms. Wendell: Life happens!

Ms. Morgan: – and I don’t want to be stressed the whole time, so I tend to aim more for weekly goals, so you know, if Monday gets blown to pieces, then it doesn’t matter because I’ve got, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, as long as I’m – I think that is one of the advantages of experience: I can look at a period of time and know whether that’s enough for me to handle it, you know? And just –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – allow some bad days; that’s okay too. So I think that’s where experience comes in. So yes, in theory, I have daily goals, but it’s the weekly goal that’s more important, because that will tell me that I’m pretty much on track to where I want to be.

Ms. Wendell: That creates a more sort of supportive environment for yourself, I, I imagine, as well, that –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – you have a weekly goal, you can be flexible about what days you’re working on those goals.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, and I don’t, I just don’t want to have that panic of thinking, oh no! You know, I was supposed to do X number of words, and I haven’t done it! You know, there’s nothing worse than constantly feeling in a great panic, and, yeah, I mean, in eighty-six books, I’ve never once missed a deadline, although now I’ve said that, I’m obviously going to miss my next deadline.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: I don’t know. I think, I think you –

Ms. Morgan: I will! I will! It’s all your fault.

Ms. Wendell: – I think you’ve figured a lot of it out. It’s – okay, fine, I will take the blame, but I think you’ve got, you’ve got the system worked out pretty well at this point. I mean, you’re doing okay. So –

Ms. Morgan: [Laughs] Tempting fate.

[Laughter]

Ms. Wendell: So are there any challenges with your writing or with future books that you are really itching to, to take on – I know you look at the book that you’re working on right now, and you look at the, the thing that, the project that’s in front of you, but are there things that are sort of in the back of your mind where you’re like, oh, I really want to write about that; I really want to try to do that?

Ms. Morgan: Mm. I mean, the, the, the bigger women’s fiction books are still quite new to me, so I’m still finding it challenging in a fun way. People use challenging as a euphemism, don’t they, for, oh my gosh, this is really awful, with we’re going through challenging times. No. But I, I’m not using it as a euphemism for really awful. It is, it is challenging, but in a really, really fun way. I think I get bored quite easily, so I like to write different things –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – I have to write different things, and for me, this still feels sufficiently different. Are there actual particular topics? No, because I tend to focus exactly on what I’m writing next and don’t think any further, because I find that that just gives me really messed up writing if I’ve got loads of ideas flying around inside, so I try, if I have more ideas, I just scribble them down and try to forget them and focus on the one that I’m developing next.

Ms. Wendell: That makes sense. Have you ever looked at an idea you’ve scribbled down and been like, what was I talking about?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: What does that even say?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: Yeah. [Laughs]

Ms. Morgan: I’ve started a book and thought, this is not going to work. Yeah. Yeah, ‘cause sometimes an idea can look fine, but it’s not enough to sustain a book, particularly when you’re writing bigger books with, you know –

Ms. Wendell: Mm-hmm.

Ms. Morgan: – more depth and complexity, you’ve got to have some stuff there. It can’t all be – so it’s just that sometimes what looks like an idea, a good idea is not, but quite often I’ll start a book and I’ll say, why did I think this was a good idea? And that’s where you need an editor, you see, ‘cause she’ll say, because it is a good idea! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Right! What have you read that you would like to tell people about? Are there any books you’d like to, to talk about?

Ms. Morgan: Well, I’ve been going through a bit of a thriller phase, actually. I was supposed to say I read nothing but women’s fiction, but I read quite widely, and I’ve, and I just finished, I love Karin Slaughter. I think she’s really great, because obviously some of them are a bit, a little bit gory, but her characterization is fantastic, and you know, you really care about the characters, and so that really pulls you in. She’s fantastic, so I’ve just read Pieces of Her, which is her latest one.

Ms. Wendell: Ooh!

Ms. Morgan: And, yeah, I know, I really, I think Karin Slaughter’s really excellent. And I read, in the same vein of thrillers, I, I, I did a trip, actually, to Toronto, and they gave me all these proofs, so, you know, for the, for the books coming up. I, I read a Lisa Unger as well, Under My Skin. That’s another thriller, and that was brilliant. She’s a really excellent writer. And I’ve just finished RaeAnne Thayne’s Season of Wonder, because just, you know, that’s really nice. It’s her first sort of trade book, I think, but nobody the season like RaeAnne, so she’s really great. And, and I’ve written some, I’ve rid, read some nonfiction as well. I read a climb-, a couple of climbing books, you know, autobiographies, so that was interesting. So you know, I do –

Ms. Wendell: Ooh!

Ms. Morgan: And I’m also reading a Christmas cookery book. [Laughs] I know! Isn’t that strange? But, but it’s, it’s a book – I don’t know; do you have Nigel Slater in, in, has Nigel Slater come to America? I’m not sure. It may, he may just be mostly focused on the UK. But anyway, he wrote a Christmas book last year. It’s, it’s called The Christmas Chronicles I think, and it’s about far more than recipes, but I’m trying to get myself, I’m about to start my next Christmas book, so I’m trying to get myself in a Christmas-y mood, so I’ve been –

Ms. Wendell: Well, you’re right on time!

Ms. Morgan: Yeah. I’ve been flicking through that as well, so all sorts of things, really. What have you read lately that you completely loved?

Ms. Wendell: Well, let me see. I started listening, like I said, to Barchester Towers. I have a, a habit that I am trying to teach myself not to work all the time, or at least look at work all the time, and it’s easy when it’s, you know, it’s on your phone, and it’s on your computer. It’s, when you, when you do so much working with, with technological interconnectivity, it’s really easy to just work all the time. So I’ve been listening to audiobooks and cross stitching. I actually found – ‘cause I didn’t realize this – cross stitching is much bigger where you are than it is over here in the States, and you have these –

Ms. Morgan: Is it?

Ms. Wendell: – giant, massive, glossy, expensive magazines full of patterns! And, like, it would be –

Ms. Morgan: I didn’t even know that. [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: – it would be, like, a hundred and fifty dollars for me to import some of these magazines, but I discovered my library has digital access, so I’m reading all of these wonderful –

Ms. Morgan: Oh wow!

Ms. Wendell: – British cross stitching magazines on my tablet and stitching the patterns, because the floss colors are the same across the pond.

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: So I listen to audiobooks and I cross stitch. It’s actually very meditative: one X with a color, one X with a color.

Ms. Morgan: That sounds very, yeah, sounds very relaxing.

Ms. Wendell: And I’m also reading a book called The Life-Changing Magic of Not Giving a F*ck.

Ms. Morgan: Oh, I’ve got that on my shelf!

Ms. Wendell: I love this book so far! I’m enjoying it so much!

Ms. Morgan: Oh, okay, I need to read it, ‘cause I have got that on my shelf. Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: It is – I listened to a, an interview with the author, Sarah Knight, on a podcast recently, and it was a very short interview, maybe like twenty-eight minutes, and I’ve listened to it twice, because I was like, oh yes, I really needed to hear this, I really needed to hear this, and the idea that you have a, you, you have a limited amount of energy and a limited amount, basically, of fucks in your budget, and you have to think about the things that you’re going to care about and the things that you’re going to give your energy to, and I’m like, I really needed to hear this right now.

Ms. Morgan: Mm, mm.

Ms. Wendell: So I’m really, really enjoying it. It is –

Ms. Morgan: Oh, it sounds like, well, I need to read it then, because I have got it; I just haven’t opened it yet.

Ms. Wendell: I hope you’ll let me know what you think. I really enjoyed this book.

Ms. Morgan: I will! I will. It sounds like I need it, ‘cause I, I give a F-bleep about far too many things! [Laughs]

Ms. Wendell: Yeah! And the older I get, the more I’m like, you know what? I don’t think I want to care about that.

Ms. Morgan: No, exactly.

Ms. Wendell: I’m done with it.

Ms. Morgan: And is it going to matter in five years?

Ms. Wendell: No!

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: I mean, at this point, everything every day, the news, here especially, is such a dumpster fire –

Ms. Morgan: Oh yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – that I’m sort of like, you know, there’s a lot of things that I need to let go caring about in order to –

Ms. Morgan: Yeah.

Ms. Wendell: – have the energy to care about the things that really are important?

Ms. Morgan: Yeah, exactly.

[music]

Our Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Sarah Morgan for hanging out with me and answering all my nosy questions, and thank you to Ann, Karoline, and Verity – Karoline, I hope I am pronouncing your name correctly, and if I’m not, I am sorry. Thank you for being part of the Patreon community, and thank you for very excellent questions!

If you want to find out more about Sarah Morgan, you can find her on her website at sarahmorgan.com, and if you would like to see pictures of her writing shed, it is super cute and charming. She is on Instagram @sarahmorganwrites, and that’s Sarah with an H. I will have links to those two sources, plus all of the books we mentioned, in the showcase – showcase? In the showcase showdown on The Price is Right. No, that is not right – in the show notes, the podcast show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. Geeze! [Laughs] This is going to be a fun outro.

This week’s podcast and transcript are brought to you by A Brand New Ending by Jennifer Probst, available for pre-order now from Montlake Publishing. If you like second-chance romances, writer heroes, and wise but guarded heroines, you will love this story of love rewritten from New York Times bestselling author Jennifer Probst. Ophelia Bishop was a lovestruck teenage girl when she and Kyle Kimpton chased their dreams to Hollywood. Kyle’s dreams came true. Ophelia’s did not. When Kyle chose his career over their relationship, Ophelia returned home to rural New York to run the family’s B & B — wiser and more guarded against foolish fantasies. Now Kyle has come crashing back into her life, and all her defenses are down. Kyle can’t think of a better place to write his latest screenplay than his hometown. After all, that was where he met the heart of his inspiration — his first love. He knows the damage that he caused Ophelia, and he wants a chance to mend their relationship. If anyone can prove to Ophelia that Happy Ever Afters aren’t only for the movies, it should be him. As much as Ophelia’s changed, she still has feelings for Kyle, but her heart has been broken before, and she knows that Kyle could run back to Hollywood at any time. She gave up her dreams once, but maybe she can dare to change her own love story one last time. Readers who love smart dialogue and clever characters combined with emotional attempts to repair a story gone wrong will love A Brand New Ending by Jennifer Probst. It’s available for pre-order now from Montlake Publishing.

We have a podcast Patreon, as I’m sure you heard. Patreon community folks helped me shape the questions for this interview – thank you again. If you’d like to have a look, it is patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar, and if you pledge you become part of the group who helps me make sure that every episode is transcribed, you help me keep the show going, and you help me develop questions for future interviews, which is really fun. Thank you again to everyone who has supported the show.

Are there other ways to support the show? Absolutely! You can leave a review; you can subscribe; you can tell a friend; you can yell out the window; you can tell your cat. Cats, I hear, are big fans of the show. And if you’re hanging out with me each week while you do your things, I am honored that you hang out with me, and whatever it is that you’re doing, especially if you’re on the treadmill or the elliptical or doing something really strenuous – keep going; you’ve totally got this – thank you for hanging out with me each week.

The music you’re listening to is from Peatbog Faeries. Our music is provided by Sassy Outwater. She’s on Twitter @SassyOutwater, and the Peatbog Faeries are on their website, peatbogfaeries.ocm. This album is called Dust. This track is called “Abhainn a’ Nathair.” I hope I said that right. That was Gaelic, a language I do not speak; Scots Gaelic specifically, I think, as I have to specify. So this is “Abhainn a’ Nathair”, and you can find more information about this track on the Peatbog website, at Amazon, or on iTunes or wherever you get your funky music.

Coming up on the website this week, it is Halloween and Fall Week, and it’s going to be so fun! This was entirely Amanda’s idea, and it’s super cool! She did all this awesome idea generation, and then she just made something awesome out of it, so here we go, Halloween and Fall Week: we have a new edition of Redheadedgirl’s Historical Kitchen, and then we have a post of fall flavors paired with recommended books, so you get to find out what my absolutely most, deepest favorite herbal tea flavor is, and I’m not really a tea drinker, so this was as much a surprise to me as it is to anyone else who knows that I don’t like tea. I like this tea! And I pair it with a book. Plus, we are going to have knitting and cross stitching patterns to share, book reviews, links, fall reading recommendations, Cover Snark, and more, plus Books on Sale every day, so I hope you come hang out with us at smartbitchestrashybooks.com.

And if you’re looking for any of the books that we talked about in this episode, they will also be at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

And now it is time for the terrible joke. Are you ready? This comes to me and then to you from Katy L, and Katy L wrote, “I’m a long-time lurker and occasional commenter. My sister sent me a bad joke that made me laugh, and I immediately thought of your podcast. I also love the bad jokes.” Thank you, Katy! “Thank you for all you and the other Smart Bitches do to promote great books, warn about the bad ones, and also make me laugh, even on crappy days at work.” Katy, it is our pleasure. Thank you for this joke. Are you ready for this wonderful joke? Katy has provided most excellent joke-age here. You guys ready? Okay.

Why don’t they play poker in the jungle?

Why don’t they play poker in the jungle?

Too many cheetahs!

[Laughs] I’ve been test driving these jokes on my twelve-year-old, because, you know, if anyone can appreciate terrible humor, it’s a twelve-year-old. This one made him laugh and then groan and then laugh, so I am considering this a fine, fine vintage bad joke. Thank you, Katy!

And thank you to Sarah Morgan for joining me. On behalf of everyone here, including Orville –

[Thunk]

Sarah: – whose tail just hit the sound box – I’m sure that you heard that –

[Thunk]

Sarah: – yep, thank, thank you, Orville – we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend. We will see you here next week!

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