I’d been thinking about interracial romance over the weekend, while I was trying to draft a section for The Book (OMG The Whole Genre?!) {that’s a working title, obviously} that examined minorities in RomanceLandia. What a verdant, green – or white, perhaps – pasture of peaceful writing that was. Not a landmine in sight for my clodding feet to trip on. No, no. *head desk* So when a friend of mine forwarded me a news article that Mildred Loving, the Black woman whose marriage to a white man overturned laws against interracial marriage died today at the age of 68, I had to think how different the world is in 2008 vs. 1958. Before I move on – our condolences to her family. I always thought it was unspeakably awesome that the name of the court case that declared laws restricting marriage on basis of race unconstitutional was called “Loving v. Virginia.”
Since I count among my neighbors several interracial couples and families, I have been spoiled with an experience that indicates interracial marriage as something that’s somewhat common. As the friend who forwarded me the article said to me over email, I’m nuts if I think that’s the rule across the US. It’s certainly not the case in romance – interracial couples in romance novels are still somewhat rare, though there are more of them of late. One writer of bestselling awesomeness told me recently that many romance writers, including herself, would love to write a romance that crosses racial lines – but those books are difficult to get into publication from established print romance publishers. In the e-format, there’s a more vigorous supply, but then, the “e” in romance is the one area that does tend to push the boundaries of the genre a little bit harder, giving the “nudge nudge” a more diverse meaning. Samhain has an entire section of interracial titles, featuring white heroes and Black heroines, and vice versa—and hero/hero, as well, so clearly someone or many someones are shopping for interracial romance specifically.
On one hand, it’s difficult to ask the right question. Would the presence of an interracial couple stop someone from buying a romance? (Would it stop me? Nope.) Is interracial romance solely the domain – and by domain I mean “located in the bookshop section” – of Black romance, because the minute one half of a protagonist pair is Black, the book moves toward Black Romance as a subgenre marker? Speaking solely for myself, I’m curious why interracial romance appears to be mostly found in epubs, small presses, erotica, or within Black romance publishing lines. Brenda Jackson has written several for Silhouette Desire, but those seem to be an exception among the backlist of series romance – and yet another reason how the dismissed-as-staid category romances can sometimes not just push but shred the envelope of boundaries every now and again like nothing else.
I’m also curious whether it’s a target people shop for, a type of storyline that some really enjoy the same way I am a total and complete sucker for a certain plotlines, including one that is too embarrassing to mention. If people shop deliberately for interracial romances, then why aren’t there more of them in mainstream romance (unless they’re there and my Google-fu has failed me)? Is there a difficult barrier towards publication of a romance that takes place across cultural and racial lines? And what counts as interracial, anyway? Does a Black woman and a Middle Eastern man count as interracial? (This reader thinks so.) Or is “interracial” code for solely white/black combinations? Hell, depending on what anti-Semite you ask, my marriage would be interracial.
Mostly I’m wondering simply why there aren’t more interracial couples in romance. There’s more than a few powerhouse examples in mainstream romance across several genres, so I am curious why there’s not more of it. For example, Ward’s Brotherhood plays with race, and the question’s been asked of her point blank whether the Brothers are Black (her answer was that they are not an identifiable human race so it’s impossible to say). Kleypas’ Mine Till Midnight also crossed a racial line in the historical sense, in that her hero was Rom and the heroine was white – a combination that caused me to question the endurance of their happy ending, given the social prejudice working against them. And someone will hunt me down and kick me in the knees if I don’t mention the multi-book subplot of Brockmann’s Sam & Alyssa. All three examples were holy crapping damn successful. Perhaps the problem is that what I perceive of as “few” needs to be adjusted. Someone else might think that’s plenty.
I’m not so much asking for a list of interracial romances, though feel free to suggest some that you’ve enjoyed, but more of a “Interracial romance: what’s up with that? How come there’s not more of it?” type of random musing. So? Your thought? Ha. I crack me up. I know you have more than one.
I read 70-odd comments of this discussion last night, and went to bed impressed by the civility. I mean, a discussion of race on the internet without it turning into a giant wank-fest?
Then I woke up. Roslyn’s “tone” has not been hostile or racist. She is expressing legitimate frustration. How many times have we talked about women writers being expected to write certain kinds of things, and what becomes romance and what doesn’t? But suddenly, one person’s experience is being marginalized because she is justifiably angry about her treatment.
I’m often hostile towards men because of their unconscious privilege. It might make me uncomfortable, as a white person, to have my privilege pointed out to me, but lashing out at the person who makes that point is NOT the answer. Instead, maybe we should take a step back and thinking about what’s being said here. We should question the practices of the publishing industry, of bookstores, of our own buying habits. (For what it’s worth, I just realized that my local bookstore does not have a separate section for AA fiction or for queer fiction. We have a section for AA studies (non-fiction), but also for queer and women’s studies. No separate fiction sections for any of those. I think it’s only b/c it’s a very small B&N;in rural PA,where 98% of the population is very homogenous, and thus it probably doesn’t even enter into the bookstore’s mind that there might be a need for more diverse selection OR to create a “ghetto” for AA books. But that’s just my theory.)
And as for the non-US folks on this thread, can I ask how romance novels set in your nations treat, oh, say, your indigenous peoples? For the Australians, are there Aboriginal romances or romance novelists? Do NZ romance novelists write about the Maori? If so, where are their books shelved? I’m genuinely curious about this, but I am also making a point that problems with race relations are not limited to the US, and often the patterns of discrimination, even unintentional discrimination, are more or less the same the world over. (Of course, the issues surrounding aboriginal peoples relate more closely to our own Native Americans, and we’ve seen how well THAT gets handled in romance. I really am curious about how other nations with generally-disenfranchised indigenous populations represent those nations in their romance novels, if they do at all.)
The thing is that apparently enough AA readers have requested an easy and convenient location to purchase AA books that the separate shelving is partly connected to what some see as a positive aspect of it. Personally, I’d like to see dual shelving to start with, to satisfy both sides, but eventually a full integration of all Romance into the Romance section.
I think that this is one of the strengths of ebooks—there is no shelving, and while some epubs have a category to help readers who are actively seeking out IR books, lots of times the race issue isn’t highlighted, whether it be the author’s race or the characters’. Which is, IMO, how it should be, and how certain books become de-stigmatized. And the other thing is that I think it’s going to take time to effect a major change, because the status quo effect is very strong, and I think people tend to hold on to what’s familiar, even when they will end up liking something different even more. In terms of the online community, I think, like Laura V., that the more prominent review sites that review IR books as a regular part of the mix, the more visibility they will get, and the more readers of all backgrounds they will get. Which at least on the ground, so to speak, can make a difference, IMO. Everything is a start, IMO, and change is often the cumulative effect of synergistic efforts.
Randi,
I’m not sure what I said that you are referring to, but I didn’t mean to sound as if this isn’t the appropriate place. It very well is, which is why I’m putting in my two cents.
I agree with your assessment on why Roslyn posted. I read what she wrote then thought about it. As a writer of fantasy and straight romance as well as gay and lesbian, it never occurred to me that I would be shelved anywhere else but mainstream sections with my fantasy and straight romance stuff. No publisher or bookstore would shelf me in some ‘white’ category. I could see Rosyln had a valid point, and very good reason to be angry.
I feel like an idiot for not seeing that privilege sooner since I’m aware of it on the straight vs gay/lesbian level.
*headdesk* plz to ignore semi-colon errors. Also, in my last sentence, that second “nations” should read “populations.” ::sigh::
Heh. Would you believe it if I said “I hear you”? Please do.
I often feel like this, when trying to present myself as an American who is aware of the outside world or a straight person who does make a concerted effort to root homophobia out of her life. I find I just have to know who I am and let go the (justified) anger that is not really directed at me—let the actual unrepentant homophobes/xenophobes/racists/insensitives of whatever stripe defend themselves; I won’t launch their attacks for them. That swell of “well see here now!” self-defense doesn’t always help and isn’t always necessary. Better for me to say “well I am this and I believe so-and-so”—full stop.
I thought I’d get back to the central question of this thread. Sarah asked where are the interracial romances? The simple response is that they’re there. Black women have been writing these books for years, most of you don’t know about it because of book segregation. If you’re interested in reading them, I’ll list some of my faves for your edification:
Rock Star by Roslyn Hardy Holcomb
Try a Little Tenderness by Roslyn Hardy Holcomb (TBP this summer)
Crush by Crystal Hubbard
Blame it on Paradise by Crystal Hubbard
No Commitment Required by Seressia Glass
Three Wishes by Seressia Glass
Love My Way by Bridget Midway (Midway is crazy prolific, go to any e-pub and you’ll find her)
At Last by Lisa G. Riley
Simply Wicked by Lisa G. Riley (TBP in June)
Caught Up in the Rapture by Lisa G. Riley
Again by Sharon Cullars
The Object of Love by Sharon Cullars
Mr. Right Now by Monica Jackson
Big Spankable Asses anthology featuring Kimberley K. Terry, Lisa G. Riley and Angie Daniels
What White Boyz Want anthology featuring Seressia Glass (and other authors I can’t remember at the moment)
Let’s Get it On by Dyanne Davis features a black woman with a Pakistani male
The Color of Love by Sandra Kitt the premiere book in the genre
A Dangerous Woman by J.M. Jeffries (this one features a female assassin, who really, like KILLS people)
No Commitment Required by Dorianne Cole
Keep in mind, this is just MY FAVES, the list is literally endless.
Something no one (well, since the OP) has mentioned is that Loving vs. Virginia only overturned anti-miscegenation laws in the US 41 years ago. It’s a little hard to wrap your mind around the idea that it was illegal to marry someone of another race just a bit more than a generation ago.
And after it became legal, it was still unthinkable for many people. Interracial relationships weren’t really common until….when? Is it common now? Not in all parts of the country, certainly. I think that romance novels are just reflecting popular culture in the US – which is still pretty messed up when it comes to race.
ok, so people have already posted my part far better than me, but i wrote this- oh, twenty posts ago:
While I see Roslyn’s point completely (she’s angry about an f-ed up system and she’s talking about that anger- talking, not yelling, which is what SBs do on a variety of issues), I do see what you mean Robin when you said
I feel like that’s for almost every issue though. One negative equates to a hundred positives (ok, totally making the math up on that). But attempt to answer- the yays were being answered in the beginning (with recommendations), but when Roslyn used the word “hostile” it turned into a discussion/talk/argument about “her” anger and then how it needs to be justified. Was “hostile” the best word to use? Maybe, maybe not, but it’s how she was feeling, and it’s her word choice. I know I personally get more and more short with people as the years of talking about the same issue by starting at the bottom and working up, and then being dismissed, and then doing it again, and then again, and then again…well, I start to speak in generalizations too, however unfair that is, because the generalization has become my experience, not the few yays that may be out there.
Not sure how well I said the above. I’m really, really tired, so what makes sense to me could sound like gubbily-guke to you.
I agree with Robin and Laura- review sites like these will bring audiences to new items.
See? Difference of opinion. Because I would argue the complete opposite.
Shayne: ooo. sometimes i feel like people who write gay/lesbian/etc have it the worse- at least i can find the AA section in the bookstore. i was looking for J.L. Langley forever, the guy working at the store was looking for her, and nothing. she’s somewhere in the store, but fuck if i know where.
r: *snort*
Thanks for all the recommendations everyone. *sigh* I really need to get into e-pubs soon, because there seems to be so much good stuff going on with them.
Beverly Jenkins’s new historical Jewel was just released, as well, and while I just started it a couple of days ago, I’m really enjoying it.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned Ann Christopher, Farrah Rochon, and Raine Weaver, either. Oh, and Shelly Laurenston’s Pack series, published by Samhain, is comprised of three paranormals featuring three kick ass heroines, one AA, one Latina, and one Anglo. GREAT books, IMO (Pack Challenge is the first).
Interesting. Now I’m a racist. Thanks for telling me! I didn’t know that.
Here’s why I asked Roslyn the question and what context I was coming from, and it’ll bore most of you to death but since I’ve now been tarred with the “racist” brush I better explain what I was thinking of when I said it.
As I said in my post I’m a dog person. By that I mean that I’ve been involved in dogs for over 25 years. I own Dobermans and also a Min Pin. I have shown in conformation, obedience, rally, and agility. For those of us who care passionately about dogs, the issue of the huge number of badly bred ones (and the fact that too many are bred at all) is incredibly frustrating. Unfortunately a huge majority of those breeding dogs do a really bad job, which is why we have so many out there with tons of health and temperament problems. Then of course there are puppy mills, that pump out hundreds and thousands of puppies in truly horrific conditions.
I frequent dog boards and when one of these low-life breeders would come on advertising their “purebread rockenwilders” I used to go ballistic. I’d scream at them about how stupid they were, how irresponsible they were and how they were doing everything wrong. It was actually pretty satisfying to prove to them how much better I was. The effect? Not only did I piss them off, but I entrenched them in their positions, making them more likely to pump out crappy puppies, not less. I learned the hard way that if I really want to engage these people, I need to help them learn, and that means swallowing my bile and engaging them. In other words, I’ve learned to moderate my tone about some things that I absolutely hate.
So all that said, I guess I’m now automatically a racist for daring to think the same thing might be applicable here.
Precisely, Sandy D. This issue comes up time and again in the gay marriage debate. I always point out how can I be opposed to gay marriage, when it’s only in my lifetime that my own marriage became legal?
As for why the naysayers stand out, I’m not sure that’s particularly strange. After all, if the question is whether or not readers will read IR romance, presumably the discussion will circle around those who won’t. I don’t know why we’d be discussing those that do. It’s a none-starter.
The business model works.
Seriously—it’s hard to generate motivation for change in the face of that.
Well, the U.S. isn’t really the world leader in many areas—this is merely excellent propaganda. Our media is way, WAY disproportionately circulated. (Partly because it’s cheap. We sell TV shows in predictable packets of 26, as opposed to maybe 6 for a UK show—too small to guarantee profit—or a couple hundred for a Korean soap—too large to guarantee profit, plus not a worldwide language.)
There’s also this—the writer framed it in terms of sexism, but it is also true in terms of race—newspapers and magazines (that I have worked for) that have gotten subscriber complaints that there are “too many black people on the front page/cover all of a sudden”—the idea that “true […] equality is actually perceived as inequality. A group that is made up of 50% women is perceived as being mostly women. A situation that is perfectly equal between men and women is perceived as being biased in favor of women.” (Or, I could easily say, 11 percent black people, which would reflect the makeup of the US at this time.)
When one is used to complete absence of a certain category, sudden accurate representation looks like a much higher percentage than it really is.
The voice isn’t monolithic, for one, and for two, much of the general population (including the black parts) has become numb to it. (A lot of the Bad Old Days, not being relevant or immediate to the younger generations, is forgotten, or believed to be exaggerated. (We could, ah, teach history better.) I’m far from forty—lynching was government sanctioned (as in, not investigated or just perfunctorially investigated) up until just a couple of years before I was born (in the 70s). And some subcategories of the “black” group resent being lumped in with one supposed generalized stance on everything.
Further, the “black voice” is often not only co-opted but misrepresented—portrayed as more strident, more violent, more constant than it really is. (It’s flabbergasting how happenings in New York are portrayed in, say, Georgia. Hell, it’s flabbergasting how happenings in New York are portrayed by the BBC—I’ll never forgive them for their 2003-blackout coverage. “New York is chaos! Pillage! Rapine! In contrast, gentle lovely Toronto…” This was patently untrue, as a glance over the crime statistics for that day will indicate.)
Just think about how many times in a U.S. film you’ll see black background extras behaving in an unsocialized manner—which doesn’t even get remarked upon (most recent case, “Cloverfield”—monster attacks, 15 black dudes run in the wrong direction to loot a store—white male lead also takes something from a store, but not a big screen tv—no, a cell phone part so he can nobly call a loved one).
Caveat: All of this would require a series of encyclopedias to explain fully, not just a puny Net post.
Please don’t think I’m being sarcastic when I say I don’t understand what this means.
Hi Laura!
It is hard to find reviews of Black romance. Don’t I know it. I go looking for them. And I often underestimate my own influence and currency. So you’re right and I deserved to be called on my own disingenuous argument.
And while my time to actually read the romance is cut into a tiny tiny piece given the writing of The Book, it is absolutely on my to-do list to read and review more Black romance.
I mentioned a few months ago that I was going to do nothing but category, then nothing but Black romance – and then there was this life thing that got in the way? Anyway, I don’t like excuses because they are lame but – nutshell, I has it: you’re right. Black romance is on my to-be-read list. Because if I want to read more Black romance, I can also review it. That which I’ve read, I liked.
That said: Roslyn: I apologize. First, when I mentioned being “yelled at” I was not clear and did not mean to be directly responding to you or your comments. I realize it totally looked like I was sniping at you, and that utterly was not my intention. My bad.
What I was trying to get at and missed entirely is that it bugs the crapola out of me that the “white reader” is the blamed element. As Robin said eloquently (damn it):
*raises hand*
I don’t think the conversation has really devolved into mudslinging and line-in-the-sand-drawing (at least, not yet), so I’ll speak to this again.
I was quoted by Trumystique, and the implication was that I and several others who have posted are avoiding IR romance because we don’t want to challenge or even think about white privilege, and that we somehow see IR (specifically b/w) relationships as “exotic” and “other.” I can only speak for myself, of course, but that’s certainly not the case for me. Since I am not a very eloquent person, any attempts to defend myself or “prove” it will simply make me look the fool (and I’m quite capable of making myself appear foolish without trying, thankyouverymuch).
But it seems as if Trumystique is saying (and correct me if I’m wrong, here) that if I read IR romance and it doesn’t make me consciously question my “unearned privileges, inequality, prejudice or anything uncomfortable,” that not only has the romance failed to do its job, but I have failed as a thinking person. I disagree. I allow for some measure of discomfort in my pleasure-reading habits—nearly every book on my keeper shelf (OK, shelves) made me get that gut-wrenching feeling when something awful happened to the h/h or when the Big Misunderstanding came around, but some things cross the line. It isn’t descriptions of sex with shapeshifters, black men, Asian men, white men, m/m, m/m/f, etc. On the contrary, that’s always some of the good stuff! Instead, I avoid a couple of specific negative scenarios I have to deal with in my own reality, which I already mentioned.
I’ve gathered several title recommendations from the comments, and I’ll definitely read some of them. But I stand by my choice not to read romance novels in which brutal rape or racist hate crimes take place, even “if the love story is compelling and the characters are well drawn.” Won’t read it. Period. This is why I need recommendations from people I trust or thorough reviews. I like unconditional happy endings.
When the back of the book describes a b/w romance that takes place in Louisiana (a state my brother, SIL, niece and nephews had to move away from for their own safety), I am understandably leery of what types of situations the h/h will have to deal with in the story. Now, virtually the same book that takes place in New York—that I would pick up without hesitation because I assume the h/h won’t encounter the same level of hatred or experience the same sense of fear for their own safety as the novel that takes places in Louisiana. Hey, I could be wrong. I’m willing to be wrong, but I’m not willing to resurrect nightmares because of something I read for fun.
Maybe I’m not adding anything useful to the discussion, but that rarely stops me. 🙂
Just in the interests of full disclosure, I also won’t read books with what are, to me, almost incomprehensible written forms of dialect (which is why I avoid nearly ALL Scottish lads and lassies novels). It’s the English major in me, I guess, or just an idiosyncracy. Romances with kilts and bagpipes where the standard rules of written English apply? Those, I luurve.
Whew, and between the time I started this post and when I finished it, several others posted. Now to go back and read…
But here’s the thing, in the example you gave, you were talking directly to the practitioners of the crime. (I’m a shelter girl myself. I was an adult before I realized that people actually went to stores and breeders to buy dogs.) I can certainly understand why they’d get angry and defensive. As far as I know, there are no publishers here. Publishers are the ones committing book segregation, therefore they are the ones who make it difficult to find interracial romances. Why would anyone who is not practicing the crime get angry about it simply because I pointed out that white romance writers who write IR books are the beneficiaries of white privilege. My only beef with them is their failure to acknowledge it, but my primary beef is with publishers who create the segregation in the first place.
I think that’s two totally difference circumstances entirely.
As for why some African American authors prefer the niche the answer is simple: Many readers like it. I personally do not because I find it disconcerting to see an entire mishmash of books from literature (Toni Morrison) to erotica (Zane), all crammed together in one tiny space.
You have to understand that there are many black romance readers who only read black romances, so putting black romances in with the entire genre would be inconvenient for them. For someone like me who typically reads any writer who appeals, and who generally has about 15 seconds to shop, it’s totally inconvenient. Which is why, I too, do most of my shopping on-line.
Black books are extremely difficult to find because publishers believe that they’ll only sell in certain markets. For instance, if I wanted to buy a copy of my book in a store in my hometown I have to special order it. Our library had a special section for ‘Alabama Authors,’ but my book wasn’t included, even though Linda Howard’s was. Somehow, despite having lived in Alabama all my life, I’m not an Alabama author.
Of course, these are the same publishers who until 15 years ago wouldn’t publish black fiction because they said ‘black people don’t read.’ So, forgive me for not trusting their marketing analysis.
American books simply aren’t that welcome everywhere. Which isn’t even always a political issue! The pub industry of each nation will first think about what they can sell in their target—read, home—market. Yank books will be picked up AFTER they prove they can sell on their home turf. Not even counting if they need to be translated. (This is the same in the movie industry, even though some films might do far better abroad than in the U.S.)
To publish in the U.K., it helps if your subject matter deals with Britain or your characters are British. Then again, I’ve got a friend whose novel deals with Tinkers and Jews in 1920s Ireland, whose agent loves it, who was praised and pushed by Joyce Carol Oates and Andre Brink—but the book won’t sell (for a good five years now) because she is not Irish.
Okay so since I know all that you might be wondering why I freaking well asked the question to start with :-D— want to know if anyone else’s experience has been positive. Because….. ENVY LIKE WHOA. (He’s not American, but UK bookstores are so much more flexible with their categories—Kit Whitfield gets shelved under mainstream fiction, and she’s writing werewolves.)
Yes, I know you are right about this, and it’s no small thing on the Internet, where it’s already so difficult for people to express all that non-verbal stuff that cues us to their intentions and to context, as well. To me, this Romance marginalization problem desperately needs a solution. And I get that we need to talk about the problem to get there. But I also see a lot of passion that can be channeled toward building a consensus of readers who can give publishers and booksellers a push toward changing the current status quo. And I’d love that happen, because I truly believe that it’s possible.
I guess it’s relevant to me, Roslyn, because I feel like some of the discussion of whether or not readers will read IR Romance hinges on the question of what white readers do and don’t do, a question I think is too broadly conceptualized, for reasons I already stated.
In any case, I totally agree with you that it’s a significant problem, and one that urgently needs a solution. And I think there are a lot of people who want to help effect that solution. Maybe blogs could do some viral blogging campaigns, or make a commitment to review a certain number of IR books, or do some author interviews, or book giveaways or whatever, to raise reader awareness of great IR books. What about an ipetition to a bookstore chain or a publisher? Or at least a basic form letter that people could adapt and email somewhere? I think there are things that can be done, but readers might need some encouragement and help to do them.
Robinjin No you’re not, and no you haven’t. It’s merely general advice on how these types of comments have been used in the past, and how will be taken—especially in an anonymous and body-language-free Internet conversation.
I would caution against equating these two scenarios. You are talking about specific people who were in fact provably, personally doing the wrong thing. Roslyn was describing a general trend—don’t take it as aimed at you personally, especially if you know that’s not who you are.
Please don’t. This just shuts down everything.
Anyone can make an error (or be misinterpreted, even)—it’s not life-defining and doesn’t earn you a permanent label. That would take conscious and repeated choice. We are all of us in a state of personal growth—this is what life is. Accidentally saying something that gets interpreted as racist no more makes a person A Racist than accidentally stepping on your beloved kitty’s tail makes you an animal sacrificer.
Wave hands in the air for Jewish heroes! Hello? Anyone? Ok, I’ll get back to work. If you can’t find one on the shelves, you have to write one yourself… <<
My epublisher had a call out for IR/IC romance. And so I did write one myself. But the main character is multi-racial and Jewish and his love interest is also Jewish. It’s a paranormal historical romance.
I searched the romance genre and unless you’re talking chick lit, the romance genre and the erotic romance genre has only a handful of Jewish main characters.
Frankly, I’ve found more stories that have IR/IC couples.
The other thing I’ve noticed, especially in chick lit, is a lack of knowledge or even a dislike for their Jewish roots/heritage.
I will certainly be on the look out for the EC stories mentioned.
Mainstream, yep. “women’s fiction” – yep
Romance few and far between!
Actually I was speaking to Roslyn, and in response to my take (which I realized later from her expansion on the subject was incorrect) that she was hostile toward all white authors because they got better placement and were paid better. She did explain later that her point was that the white authors were also not attempting to do anything about it. I felt her first post was inappropriate. It turns out those of us who were offended by it took it the wrong way, and for that I do apologize.
But yeah, I also think it’s a huge stretch to imply I’m racist because I feel that a hostile tone (from anyone, of any color, including white, black, and brindle) is non-productive. I did say, and will defend, that I don’t really want to read any book that’s all about race as the primary factor. Not that I think race should be ignored, I’m just not personally interested in it as the main focus.
All that said, I never meant to try to dismiss Roslyn’s anger. I apologize if it seemed I was.
I have been loving this discussion. And, while the IR book issue is great, it is way too thorny of an issue for ME to tackle. Others are doing an admirable job.
BUT, I did have something to input on the shelving/classification issue from a librarian’s perspective. We are a semi large, metropolitan library system. We have 22 branches and a ginormous Central library. Some of our branches are located in predominantly AA areas and serve predominantly AA patrons. Those library branches self segregate the african american fiction from the regular fiction. Or, they used to. They also used to sticker the hell out of their books so you were absolutely sure you were getting an AA book. This drives me absolutely NUTS. I asked them, nicely, to stop doing that. They insisted that the patrons wanted that. They wanted to go one place, get their AA fiction and go on with life. No browsing. No interest in anything not already pre-selected by their only, very narrow, criteria. My boss, thankfully, but the kibosh on stickers. The pulling out of african american fiction was supposed to be over, but now they’re just calling it a temporary “Display”. Uh huh. It has been 3 years, how effing temporary is that? I think if more people knew that african american AUTHORS didn’t like being segregated, it might help the READERS stop asking for it.
On a related note: I can’t tell you how many times someone (when I worked reference) came up to me and asked for “African American fiction” as if that was self explanatory. They weren’t aware that it runs the gamut from Thong on Fire to Christian Romance. You can have gritty mysteries with lots of violence or vampires. It isn’t just Terry McMillan anymore. A lot of this is simply people not knowing the range of what is available, and I’m glad to give people the opportunity to try different things. But readers have to become more educated because they are what drive behaviors, even in not for profit machines like libraries.
To the best of my knowledge, no. (I am going to make a point to visit a number of book stores will in NZ next month to confirm that.) If I remember correctly there is a New Zealand author category (I’ve no idea if romance authors get shelved there too), into which authors like Witi Ihemira(author of the Whale Rider), Janet Frame, Keri Hulme etc would be shelved. And there is a Maori section, but as far as I know relates to social/historial.
And Robin said it much better than me.
Thanks everyone who gave some recommendations – I’ll note them down and see if any of them appeal.
Is this because of the status quo, because of the “relate to” issue that has been brought up with white readers, or something else, do you think? Not that I want to make any generalizations about black Romance readers who only read black Romance, but I’m curious, because I’m wondering if this isn’t seen as a problem paramount to white readers who do the same because of the whole “white privilege” power differential or for some other reason. No matter what the reason, of course, it doesn’t change the fact that black Romance authors should be treated the same as every other Romance author.
Lest I open up another can of worms…or quite possibly no can of worms at all since it might be irrelevant…but what about non-white and non-black romance readers and writers? We DO exist, and it seems like whenever there is a question of race in ANY medium, it is always boiled down to black vs. white with everyone who doesn’t fit in either category being marginalized or glossed over.
I certainly don’t have the luxury of picking through books because of the author’s race or the characters’ race. When it comes to Indian authors who write romance-themed books, there’s Nalini Singh and Poonam Sharma. I think that’s it. Wow…that’s an impressive reading list. I’d be done reading pretty quickly, wouldn’t I? Consequently, I don’t think about race unless a story tells me to. If it’s an issue between the characters, if it’s a multicultural love story, that’s great. If it’s just two white people being white and whitely falling in love…? That’s great, too!
On another note: I currently have one of the best jobs on earth. I buy fiction. All fiction. Print fiction…..audio fiction…..I sit and spend other people’s money on books all day long. If only I got paid more to do it (but that is another matter.) I’ll be leaving my job someday soon (after the bar exam) but I can honestly say that it has been an eye opening experience in terms of what is out there to be purchased. I know everyone can’t have this job, but it is MY job to make sure that I give people at least a somewhat wide range of options to choose from when they come into one of the libraries. A lot of people surf the web, place holds on the books they want, and pick them up when they’re ready so they don’t have to deal with “is it in the AA section, excuse me, “display” or not” issue. Stop book segregation now. I think we need bumber stickers and t-shirts!
Randi wrote:
Thank you, Randi, for saying so well what I have been feeling. I am always glad to see the intelligent and insightful discussion that happens at Smart Bitches, but some of the dissection of Ms. Holcomb’s anger has made me personally ucomfortable. I think Ms. HOlcomb, and hell everyone else, has been pretty damn elloquent here. But I also think Ms. Holcomb has some pretty good reasons to be angry. Does that anger make me uncomfortable? Hell yes. But I also think it should. Because seriously, are we still facing that damn seperate but equal argument?! Still! In this day and age. And it’s been promoted as a marketing ploy. Hell, maybe it is a marketing ploy. What do I know? I just buy the books; I don’t publish or write them.
Still for all that I admire Booker T. Washington (I went to a high school named in his honor and instilled a lot of pride and admiration on my part), “Seperate but Equal” has never worked out to anyone’s long term advantage. That said, I don’t have some polyanna belief that merely saying a thing is bad or wrong or doesn’t work will solve the problem. Words are great, thoughtful intelligent discussion is the win and awesome. Action, however, r0x0rz my boxers. Metaphorically speaking of course.
So, Ms. Glass asked a really good question via SB Sara, and I would like to respond. What am I going to do? I am going to scour my local book store for books by the authors who have posted here and the recommendations that have been given. I will special order those books from the brick and mortar store to make a point. I will find that damn AA section wherever it’s been hiden in my local bookstore and I will check it out. I mean, is Tony Morrison shelved there? What about Ralph Ellison or Richard Wright? Because they have written some fantastic books, but I kind of like my romance novels to be together in one section and straight up lit fic in another. If I get the opportunity, I will speak to my bookstores manager. I’ll wait on the letter writing until I see what my other actions inspire.
All that said, and boy it was a lot, I really think there are 2 topics at hand here. One is, “Where or where can I find some awesome IR romance?” The second is, “WTF, books are shelved by author race?” Of course, I paraphrase. So to bring the 2 together at least for my own benefit, Ms. Holcomb, can you give some recommendations for some kick ass authors who write romance and have been shelved in AA books? I mean, I feel like I have 3 names to go with here. Maybe I’m not culling all of the great recommendations out of this mamoth thread, and maybe I’m just a slacker.
And if I am repeating anyone up thread, I do apologize. I believe I mentioned I am a slacker, and while I believe I’ve read everything, well, that slacker gene may have gotten the better of me.
I often underestimate my own influence and currency
Sarah, in the aftermath of the Cassie Edwards plagiarism discovery, which both got the site on the national news agenda and (eventually) made a publisher take significant action, I have great faith in the combined power of the Bitchery. And I have the impression that a lot of people share your tastes and trust you as a reviewer: when you put up rave reviews about a book (e.g. The Spymaster’s Lady) it certainly seems to get a lot of people reading and talking about it. [Not that I want to minimise the importance of other review sites, because of course many of them are very influential too.]
I mentioned a few months ago that I was going to do nothing but category
I did notice that you were reviewing quite a lot of them, and it seemed to start off discussions about category romance which, I think, changed some people’s perceptions of them (in a good way). So again, that made me think that when something’s reviewed here, it can help introduce people to books they might never otherwise have heard of.
Hmm, I skipped out on this discussion yesterday because I thought it covered a topic that’s already been done here.
The topic of race/ethnicity is one that ethnic people discuss both seriously and in jest all our lives. It is complicated. It isn’t just what we feel, but how we are perceived. It isn’t just what people tell us. It is what they don’t say.
Re: the issue of putting books by African-American authors in a separate section. I talked to thecommunity events director at the very busy Oakland, CA Barnes & Noble. He said that customers wanted a separate section of books by AA writers so they could find (and buy) them easily. At that time, the Oakland B&N;was the only one in the country with a section dedicated to African-American authors.
Niche marketing—setting an item is a special section—will sell more than general marketing. Every bookseller I’ve talked to tells me this is true.
Many writers, including myself, want to believe that our books have something for readers outside our gender, ethnicity, socio-economic status, marital status, etc. We naturally resent being given a cover that will turn off any male reader, or that screams racial stereotypes.
So there is the conflict of niche marketing and a writer’s desire for acceptance as a writer first. “Why not put the book in two different places?” It’s simply just not practical for booksellers.
Do I think some people won’t pick up my books because they see my name and assume they will be all about fiery senoritas and mariachis and visions of the Virgin Mary on a chimichanga? Sure. It’s frustrating, but I think thoughtful conversation about the topic helps.
And thoughtful conversation requires that one listen to the other person’s experiences and perspectives.
Laura: Thank you.
Jeanne said:
“The other thing I’ve noticed, especially in chick lit, is a lack of knowledge or even a dislike for their Jewish roots/heritage. “
No way, really? Seriously? Oh, please, give examples? I’m so curious.
Now, I can has clone to read moar, please?! !!?!?!?!11!?!
re. Jewish heroes and heroines in Romance and chick lit:
The Dominant Blonde by Alisa Kwitney (chick lit with a strong romance thread)
Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner: ditto
Fallen From Grace by Laura Leone: Jewish heroine
Bed of Spices by Barbara Samuel: Jewish hero
Crooked Hearts by Patricia Gaffney: Jewish hero
I know there are more, but I can’t think of them now.
My feeling is that they can look at the author photo and the book jacket if they feel so strongly about it—or go to particular areas of the city and patronize completely-black bookstores, if available. It feels like a limitation to me, and I don’t see why I should suffer for their self-limitation.
However, I’m being bitter, and compromise is better, so for the record I support dual shelving! (The Borders on 57th and Park in NYC does it! Octavia Butler is in Sci Fi AND Af-Am interest.)
This is VERY relevant. The fact is, the black-white problem has been more egregious and more blood-soaked than others in this country (except for Native Americans), and the problem has been around longer (except for Native Americans) and until recently we were the largest minority—which is why it will get more attention in the U.S., bluntly—but this doesn’t automatically mean that those of us who advocate for black writers because we ARE black would disregard YOU advocating for Asian writers. (And if we do disregard it, that’s wrong.)
So let’s ask the same question, then—do white writers writing IR with Asian characters get more play than Asian writers writing IR with Asian characters? (Actually I think that was briefly mentioned upthread. Follow-up?) Is the manga phenomenon adversely affecting Asian writers who are not Japanese? Are too many Indian writers forced to try to be Jhumpa Lampiri? Where are the Korean writers?
And then, let’s supply book recs! Please.
I think the reasons vary. I think it’s partly because until about 15 years ago there was no such thing as black romance, interracial or otherwise. If you read romance it would by definition have a minimum a white heroine. Sometimes they mixed the hero up a little bit, but for the most part they were white.
When that barrier came down in the early 90s, many of us who’ve been reading romances forever were almost giddy with excitement. I can remember going in a store and buying every black romance there, regardless of content. I think some readers still feel that way.
I would never consider buying a black book in a UBS. I’m too aware of the impact of my purchasing power.
Black romance readers are some of the most loyal readers there are. Many of them understand the ‘power of the purse,’ and they deliberately buy the way they do to send NY a message. They know that they’re the only support their favorite authors receive and that if the numbers aren’t there, the books will disappear.
Interracial romance readers are much the same way. For years I bought all of them. When Brenda Jackson broke through with the first Harlequin interracial with a black female heroine I immediately rushed to my nearest chain bookstores and bought their entire stock. This was a monumental opportunity and I wanted to be sure NY understood that these books would sell.
There is always a sense that having black books is a gift, something that might disappear at any moment. We understand that without our support we could easily return to the bad old days of “black people don’t read.”
Is there an issue of relatability? Probably. Especially amongst the younger generation who have grown up with black romances. With those of us of previous generations, I would say not so much.
But for the most part, I would say that that most black readers will read white romances, at least that’s been my experience. Indeed, there is a contingent of black readers who won’t read black romances. And no, I can’t even begin to explain what their deal is.
Mac – I definitely think IR written by white authors in general is just more prevalent. I mean, when you DO have Asian writers in fiction, they tend to err on the side of Jhumpa Lahiri and other culturally-driven “literary fiction.” There’s not a whole lot of East and South Asian writers delving into the mantitty, you know? So does that mean we’re just stuck reading about the Asian romance experience through a white author’s filter? I don’t know. I did enjoy Mary Jo Putney’s China Bride despite a few bits that rankled, I appreciate Suzanne Brockmann hitting IR notes even if some of them ring a little sour, I like all those bodice rippers set in India even though nobody is ever actually Indian IN them…
Is it okay to be satisfied with that? Is it okay to want more? And, if so, where IS the more? Is it being written? Is it being written but not published? Published but not publicized?
I write IR romances. I actually make race a factor most of the time, because most of the time, for the story I’m writing, it is. I once submitted BEING PLUMVILLE to an agent. She read the query and the first chapter and she loved. She requested a syn and the first three chapters. She then writes back and says I focus too much on race in the story. Keep in mind, she knew when I submitted it to her the story was interracial and set in a fictional Georgia town in 1968. I also say what part of their conflict would be in the query and the syn, so basically, it was the fear and the trepidation that I actually “went there” and didn’t shy away from the huge pink and green elephant in the room.
This was one of the main reasons I decided to self-publish. I knew there was a market out there for that story, even if the agents and publishers don’t have, as Beverly Jenkins would say, “the testicular fortitude” to publish it. I’ve gotten nothing but good responses for BEING PLUMVILLE from all sorts of people from all across the board. When my book first came out, a white man bought it from me for $50. Another white woman from Vermont e-mailed me and told me she couldn’t put the book down. Black men in their twenties couldn’t say enough good things about it. Older black women who’d never read interracial in their life said a friend gave them the book and they enjoyed it from beginning to end. There are even people who do not like where race is a factor in their stories who have told me they really enjoyed BEING PLUMVILLE.
Being a member of the IMRR board has helped expand my book list in terms of Multicultural romances. I encourage people to check it out. For me, the story should ring true. If your story is set in the Southern United States in 1956, chances are you’ll have more issues with race than if set in a contemporary Western United States cosmopolitan area in 2006. Whatever I write, I do not ignore the fact that people are of different races, because especially in this country, race matters. It just does. Me as a black women will always have to deal with something a white man will never have to deal with. However, that doesn’t mean that race is THE supreme conflict either. I’m subbing a story to agents/publishers now where it’s set in the NC, the couple is interracial (bw/wm) but the main issue is the fact she’s full-figured and he’s a former fashion model who now owns a gym. The race aspect of it is downplayed because for that couple, the issue is body image and the perception of beauty (and trust you me, race plays a HUGE role in that).
Anytime you add or take away from a story because “somebody said so”; you are in danger of ruining it. The ultimate people who an author must answer to are the characters and his or herself. If someone adds race as a factor, but it’s clear that for these particular people, it shouldn’t be, or there is something more important than race, that annoys me. Same thing if they diminish it when clearly race probably should be more of an issue than not. I won’t even get into when authors (usually white ones) write IRs with black women, yet make the black woman mixed/so light as to either explain how in the world the (usually) white hero could ever possibly find her attractive or just be so completely insulting that I want to spit (LONE EAGLE by Cassie Edwards comes to mind).
And I think black authors’ frustrations are justified. Many times we can’t “just do this” because our very color makes that impossible—going back to race matters. It always matters, there’s just a continuum of how intensely it matters. Same thing with IRs.
And to whomever upthread mentioned that Hispanic isn’t a race but an ethnicity, thank you. I actually know more Afro-Hispanics than anything else!
Savannah
W.P. Kinsella wrote a whole bunch of short stories featuring various characters in Hobbema (Ho-BEE-muh), a reservation in central Alberta. They were hysterically funny (on purpose) and were made into a couple of movies and a TV series. It wasn’t until years after I’d read these stories that I found out a) he’s not native and b) a lot of people were upset that he’d had the temerity to write about Aboriginal People without being one himself.
And this led to a HUGE discussion about the legitimacy of people writing characters and cultures they’re not from. Which always brought up the whole SF thing; how dare Tolkein write about elves and hobbits when he’s surely human!
What I’m looking for in a story is a sense of authenticity. Even if I’ve never been there or experienced that, I want to feel that the place and the culture are REAL (even if they’re not), and are mostly accurately depicted.
I’ve read IR romances (mostly in categories, and mostly back in the late 80’s, early 90’s) and enjoyed some, and not others. The deciding factor was not whether or how the differences were portrayed, but how WELL.
One that I can recall featured an American woman and a Japanese man. The fact that he was Japanese was an issue in her family on account of her grandfather and WWII, and this conflict affected their relationship greatly and was the central conflict of the story. But it fit in the context of the story: it was a real issue that they had to resolve in order to have their HEA, and they did, and I can still remember that category (Silhouette Special Edition?) story 20 years later. (Not the title or author or anything useful like that, just that it had a kind of purply-pink cover.)
Hm, rambling. My point: I likes me some good romance stories, regardless of the cultural backgrounds of the h/h, but only if they’re written well.
feeling24: yeah, not really, although I might have been when I read the story…
I’m coming to this discussion late, but fwiw, my editor at Kensington Publishing has never once questioned the ethnicity of the characters in my Wolf Tales series of erotic paranormal romance. While race is not an issue in my stories, they cross the board with a mixture of White, Black, Asian, Native American and Hispanic characters who share the common bond of being Chanku shapeshifters.
It does make me wonder, if I had been an AA author writing the same stories, would my books be shelved differently? In the beginning, the books were not shelved with romance, but instead were stuck in the “Women’s health” section in most stores. It took a lot of complaints from readers to get the books moved into the romance section. I disagree with the separate shelving of AA or I/R or Hispanic romances—I have discovered a lot of authors of color I enjoy reading. I imagine I would have found their books much easier if they’d been shelved as romances or mainstream fiction or whatever. I understand some readers wanting separate shelving, but it can’t be helping the authors—I would imagine duel shelving would make a lot more sense.
ok, OT, but robinb- can i have your job? pleeeze?
Mala: you have an excellent, excellent point about it coming down to black vs white and that others are glossed over.
I can’t remember if someone mentioned Marjorie M Liu, so I thought I would. (Ooo, which reminds me, she has a TSTL hero– Blue from Eye of Heaven…ok, I realize that is not the best thing to say for a recommendation, so to clarify, I love her writing style, but some – not all, but yes, some- of her characters and plotlines…well, just not my thing).
Sarah: of course you have influence; heck, your comments are even different colors. special.
Thanks for the recs up thread. I see that it took me soooo long to compose my comment that several lists of recommendations had already been made. Not only am I a slacker but I am also slow. Still, I am excited. Lots of good stuff to read this summer when I should be prepping for the GRE and studying Turkish. 😉
One of the things I tend to notice when this subject comes up—or for that matter any time racism is discussed—is the “angry black woman” syndrome, which I believe is a tool created by the patriarchy to shut down the legitimate voices of black women period. What’s appalling is that many so-called “feminists” or those who just don’t want to deal with their own ingrained privilege use the notion of the “angry black woman” to not hear what is being said, but to focus instead upon the tone. This is a total cop-out and does NOTHING to get past the obstacles in order to change things.
Frankly, as a proud ABW, I have to agree wholeheartedly with many of my fellow IR/AA writers/readers here who are simply FRUSTRATED with the status quo. The thing is ladies, the endless explanations of WHY so many readers think an AA or IR romance is so “different”. Honestly, the reasons I’ve heard are just so much bullsh*t. Like I said, I love Regencies, but I’m no duchess or countess and I’ve only been to England once and certainly NOT in the 18th century (nor am I caucasian), and yet there’s something about that time period and the characters—a universal condition—that I relate to. So why is it so IM-FREAKING-POSSIBLE for a reader to not find common ground with characters who don’t share the same race (or are some readers so self-absorbed that if the story doesn’t revolve around them it’s not worth reading)? People of ALL races and nationalities fall in love every day, so I have yet to see what the big deal is. Black love, white love, latino love, asian love—love between blacks and whites, asians and middle easterners—it’s all the bloody same at the end of the day.
Thanks, Roslyn, Isis and Viola for your kind words about my book! 🙂 I’m just now getting the chance to catch up on posts here (darn day job, lol)—I definitely appreciate the votes of confidence. And Isis, I agree completely with you about the disservice comment: ” I find it a disservice to the romance and to the storyline, if it’s included just because the writer feels it has to be present simply because the relationship is an IR, as opposed to the story calling for it. ” Amen!
Sara