Interview with the Folks from Ellora’s Cave

We here at the Smart Bitchery are nosy, nebby ladies, always sticking our big snarky noses into various pieces of the publishing industry, wondering how it all works. All part of our plan for world domination, of course! Or, just domination. Heeyah!

Since one of the hottest topics right now in the publishing industry is the advent of erotica (it was even featured on the front page of Crain’s New York Business, which I cannot link to because it’s registered users only, sob sob) we thought, Hm! Why not ask the toiling editors at Ellora’s Cave all our questions about the erotica industry, what sells, what doesn’t, and, for heaven’s sake, what is UP with those covers?

Editing Masters Heather Osborn and Nick Conrad were kind enough to answer our queries – so read on and enjoy our latest Smart Bitch Interview.

1. Who is Ellora? I’ve looked at your website’s “About EC” and there’s no indication as to the origins of the name, just that your founder had a hard time finding a publisher for her explicitly erotic romance. So who is Ellora? Why are we in her cave in the first place, and where’s the bar?

Heather: Fo’ real? The Ellora Caves are actually real caves in India, believe it or not. The founder of EC, Tina Engler, had a friend who went to India and visited the Ellora Caves. When the time came to name her new company, Tina remembered the caves, which were found to contain Egyptian hieroglyphs (hence the Egyptian theme on the website) and named the company after them. To find out more about the actual caves, check out this site:  http://www.tourismofindia.com/hiwhh/elloracaves.htm.

Of course, the sexual innuendo inherent in a name like Ellora’s Cave hasn’t hurt any. And I am still awaiting my executive key to the golden wet bar, so unfortunately I can’t tell you where it is.

2. According to your submission guidelines, you are very clear what is acceptable and what is not (i.e. pedophilia, sex with Earth-dwelling animals – a gifted bit of phrasing, that!). Your litmus test seems to be whether it makes your editors nauseated (or is outside the limit of the law). How much of what you receive pushes your nausea envelope, so to speak, and do you worry about the stability of some of the writers? Or do you find that more of your submissions come from people exploring sexuality and sexual adventure in ways that fall within your admittedly-large limits?

Heather: Actually, we have a pretty equal mix of good bad and indifferent. I would say that nowadays the majority of what we get does fall within our stated requirements, and as for the ones that don’t the major issue is not enough sex. Do we occasionally get in some truly bizarre stuff? Yeah. But speaking for my own experience, I have never truly received a submission that squicked me out in a “pervert” or “pedophile” type of way. Seriously misguided? Yes. But truly demented? No. In fact, the author of one of the weirdest submissions I ever received (an ode to prepubescent sex set in a post apocalyptic, nihilistic world) wrote me one of the most thoughtful, well reasoned responses to my rejection letter that I have ever received.

To break it down to actual numbers I would say about 25% of what we get is blatantly not enough sex to fulfill our minimum requirements. Another 25% is auto-refused due to general poor writing, etc. An additional 25% is seriously misguided as to what constitutes romance and/or hot sex. The remaining 25% is what we have to go through in order to find new authors.

2.5. If this question is unanswerable, feel free to disregard it, but can you tell us about some of the submissions you’ve had that really worked for you, and the ones that were so scary they made you want to hide under your desk and go work for Disney?

Heather: Obviously I will answer this quite vaguely, but still try to give you the juice, LOL.

Some of the best submissions I have received are by authors that I bought and edited (duh!). My first offered contract for EC was a book called Hot in the City: French Quarter by Lacey Alexander. Hot hot hot!!! My most recent purchase is a book called Enchanted by new-to-EC author Anna J. Evans. (Coming soon!) Other favorites include the Tales of the Shareem series by Allyson James and To Trust a Wolf by Kate Steele. Actually, this question is gonna get me in a lot of trouble, because I want to list ALL of my authors’ books! In the interest of being (somewhat) brief I will stop here, but keep in mind that I would never offer a contract on a book that I don’t like. I love *all* my authors!

As for the scary? Where do I begin? With the human-dolphin love story we received a few months ago? (Notice I didn’t say Were-dolphin? Yeah. Actual dolphin.) With the extremely macabre story that opened with the heroine’s dead baby bobbing down the river in front of her? With the extremely romantic story that featured a pre-teen boy becoming sexually involved with his 5 aunts? Or the now-infamous book that featured a former porn star turned pastor and the male co-star who comes to bring her back into the “biz”? These are but a few of the submissions that have made the EC editors hall of fame.

3. What’s the occupational hazard of reading all that sex all the time? Does it start to dull your sexual sensibilities, or does it heighten your own personal life in any way? If my job was to read erotica all day, I’m not sure what it would do to me!

Heather: Interesting question! I do think that editing nothing but erotic romance can tend to dull your senses after a while. I find myself growing a bit jaded or complacent with the more “vanilla” sex scenes in some of my authors’ works. I have to continually remind myself that not everything has to be hardcore in terms of sexual content. Not everything has to have kink. I know I have heard some authors complaining about what they consider the requisite elements of an erotic romance nowadays — that is, a touch of BDSM, an anal scene, some toys. The truth is, I believe strongly that there is still room for wonderfully hot, fairly vanilla sex in erotic romance. A hot scene is a hot scene, no matter what is being done in it!

If I feel I am getting burned out on erotic romance I make an effort to read different things in my personal life. I am currently buzzing through a ton of science fiction and fantasy. I just read Full Moon Rising by Keri Arthur — great book, crap cover. (I just think if you are going to put a new author straight into hardcover you should give her a bangin’ cover.) I also re-read The Compass Rose and read The Barbed Rose by Gail Dayton — polyamory and magic…mmmm. I am currently reading Working for the Devil by Lilith Saintcrow. It is AWEsome. Books like these help me to cleanse my palate, so to speak, and return refreshed to the spicy stuff!

As to how editing erotic romance affects my personal life, as I am currently single, not a helluva lot! Although I am learning plenty of tricks for future use, hehehe…

Nick: I had actually wondered, when I took on this job, if such would be the case. I, too, find myself yawning a bit at vanilla scenes now and again even if they’re well-written, but really I think that a good, engaging story helps to boost the fun factor of these scenes. If you’re becoming emotionally involved with the characters, then the sex packs a bigger punch than if it’s got boot-knocking every three pages. And, of course, it’s important to keep the characters emotionally connected with what they’re doing. We don’t just want to see them going through the motions, we want to know how good it feels.

4. In an article in Crain’s New York Business this week (Feb 20-26), the writer raises the possibility that “With all these titles flooding bookstores, some industry insiders worry that overheated readers may soon get worn out.” What do you see as the future of erotica-  is it a trend, a flash in the pan (ha) or long term addition to the romance market? Do you think the erotica market can sustain it’s own height? Ha ha!)?

Heather: Well, let’s just say that I think there is no use shutting the barn door on erotic romance. That horse done run off.

I do not view erotic romance as a flash in the pan or merely a trend. I *do* see it as an extremely hot commodity right now, though, and like any genre going through a hugely popular upswing, you are going to see a lot of authors jumping on the bandwagon, some for good (very good!) and some…not so good. Remember the Romantic Suspense bandwagon of a few years ago? I am still heartbroken when I think of how many awesome historical authors made the (ill-advised) switch to Romantic Suspense.

But, like any “it” genre, there will eventually be a cooling point. When the readers begin to glom onto a new trend and stop buying every Erotic Romance title out there, that is when Darwin will kick in. The companies putting out the highest quality stuff, the stuff the readers want to read — those companies will stay in the game while others will fall by the wayside. Do I foresee a stockmarket crash for the erotic romance industry? No. But I do know that there will come a time when it will not be the hot new kid on the block, and when that happens, only the strong will survive. (And good LAWD, could I add any more clichés to this answer? Nah, don’t think so…)

Nick: With as long as the romance novel has been popular even before the advent of erotic romance, I find it hard to believe that (good) sex will ever sell out.

5. And finally… Covers! Seriously. I’m asking with a straight face. Is there any effort on the part of EC to revamp the cover production now that other major publishers with big marketing and art budgets are creating erotica imprints to compete with the large slice of the readership that EC has been enjoying? I am sure that using computer-generated images has been a major factor in EC’s success, and particularly in the large portion of royalties you are able to offer your authors. Is there any effort to move away from the Poser figures to other images for the book covers?

Heather: Yes, EC has revamped its cover procedures significantly since making the move towards print. One of the first things we were advised by Borders and Waldenbooks was that we should keep the covers somewhat toned down. Not puritanical, but not in your face sex-ay. We started changing covers a bit to reflect the new standard. Things like no butt crack, no hands cupping breasts, and no explicit sexual positions.

As far as computer generated art (poser people, as non-fans call it), we have always had a mix of photo covers as well as digital. Contemporary books, Romantic Suspense, etc, have most often been given photo covers. Digital art is most often used for fantasy, science fiction, and paranormal covers. Let’s face it, it is hard to find good quality photos of aliens.

Currently we are making more of an effort to move away from digital art, as, based on feedback from Borders, we have heard that the vast majority of store managers, etc, do not like so-called “poser eyes” — the scary dead face look you can sometimes get with digital art. The ultimate goal is to get our books into readers’ hands, and if that takes some modification of cover procedure then we will do it.

6. Tell me your opinion of the covers. Honestly. What do you think of them – do they hurt sales, or are readers eager for erotica that they’ll ignore whatever is on the front?

Heather: Honestly? I think there are some truly, truly horrifying covers out there. Scary man-titty filled covers. Frightening dead Barbie covers. Horrifying mutant crotch pouch covers. BUT. For every horrific digital cover there are some equally great ones out there. Some of my personal favorites from EC? Fetish by Sherri L. King, art by Darrell King. Pleasure Raiders (Anthology) art by Syneca. Master of Desire by Lacey Alexander, art by Christine Clavel. Flame of Shadows by Sahara Kelly, art by Phillip Fuller.

As far as whether or not they hurt sales, hell yes, the wrong cover can obliterate sales. But at EC, the wrong cover does not necessarily mean a bad poser cover. One of the worst cover responses we ever got at EC was from a book that had a symbol on the cover. A nice, subtle, tactful symbol. It tanked. (And has long since been redone, so no use trying to find it, LOL.) Readers HATED the fact that the cover wasn’t blatantly sexy or erotic. They wanted, god help them, MAN TITTY. And they more than proved it to us with their pocketbooks.

(Nick: One of my authors once requested a cover with the hero wearing a shirt that was open to the waist and the heroine wearing a dress that was open on the sides from ’pit to pelvis. The artist emailed us and explained that there was too much clothing.)

Heather: It is important to keep in mind that for every cover you absolutely, eye-gougingly hate, there is someone who loves it. I occasionally have received covers for my authors’ books that I hated with a burning, burning passion. Ugly with a capital UG. I would send them off to the author and hope for the best, and invariably the author would e-mail me, absolutely THRILLED with their magnificent cover. What I abhorred, they adored.

7. What are some of the bestselling themes/subjects for EC—BDSM? Ménage? Paranormal?

Heather: Top selling genres for EC are BDSM, Vampire, Werewolf, Science Fiction, Ménage, and Romantic Suspense. And an up-and-coming genre that we are eagerly acquiring is m/m erotic romance, as well as m/m/f ménage. 

8.  How do you feel about the erotic romance/erotica = porn for women issue? Do you think it’s an accurate assessment? Again, from the Crain’s article: “There’s always been a successful male version of this, whether it’s Playboy magazine or erotic DVDs,” says Liate Stehlik, publisher of Avon Books, which last week announced the launch of its Avon Heat line of erotic romances and erotica. “This is the female answer.”

Heather: Another tricky question. I think to simplify this to erotic romance = porn for women is to do a major disservice to the talent and skill involved in telling a great story. Good erotic romance is not merely an endless parade of sex separated by a few minor scenes of action or dialogue. (Although I have certainly read this version of erotic romance, I often find myself angered by it. IMO, it is not so much hot as it is desensitizing. After 200 plus pages of explicitly described sex I am bored and most definitely NOT in the mood, LOL.) Good erotic romance is a well told story with great characters, a well thought out plot, and plenty of hot sex.

Do I think there is an element of sexual titillation and fulfillment that comes with reading erotic romance? Of course. But this sexual fulfillment must be added to the emotional fulfillment you already achieve from reading a well written romance. Erotic ROMANCE should encompass all of the wonderful elements of a romance while adding the erotic element. It should seamlessly blend together. This is extremely easy to lose sight of, and is something I always strive to remind myself as well as my authors.

An interesting thing I have noted with some of the newer New York lines of erotic romance is that many seem to be going out of their way to de-emphasize the romance in their lines. I have heard many of the editors for these lines speak at conferences about how the books’ endings don’t necessarily need to be happy or end in committed relationship/s. To do that, IMO, is to ignore the very foundation of what made, and continues to make, EC a huge success. When readers buy books from EC they absolutely, positively KNOW that they will be buying a hot, explicit LOVE story. One that will have a happy ending. To ignore such a fundamental rule of romance and yet still market your line to romance readers? Well, we’ll see how that works out!

Nick: And, too, Crain’s is using the typical male-as-default-gender paradigm. Just because a genre appeals predominantly to women doesn’t mean it has to be the counterpart to a “man thing” (heh heh, “man thing”). Women want a good story and they want some interspersed hotness. That just all there is to it.

9. Have you faced any flak from anti-porn groups now that many of your titles are carried in brick-and-mortar bookstores where OMG IT CAN CORRUPT OUR CHILDREN IF THEY SO MUCH AS READ THE WORD PENIS?

Heather: Actually we have not. And we would desperately like to keep it that way!

10.  Any good nutty fan- or hate-mail to share?

Heather: Hmmm, none that I have received personally — the authors would be the best ones to ask for this! I will say that here in our offices, we have received plenty of requests for catalogs from penitentiaries across the United States, as well as some…truly creative (and handwritten in pencil) submissions from inmates.

Nick: The ones written in pencil on the backs of letters from Mom are my personal favorites.

11. What kind of a role do you think erotica/erotic romance plays in the empowerment of women, if you think it plays any sort of a role at all?

Heather: Hmmm, another tough question. I think the popularity of erotic romance certainly helps to illustrate just how far women have come in accepting and embracing their own sexuality. Sexual liberation and empowerment walking hand in hand. I also think it is truly interesting that along with erotic romance, the other romance genre that is currently booming is Inspirational Romance. Polar opposites, indeed!

Nick: And not only does it illustrate this sexual liberation on a large scale, I think it enables it in individual readers. Women are reading erotic romance and getting bolder about their own personal limits for what they think and want sexually. We hear from readers who say that they share our books with their partners and get ideas for later. Heck, I have an author who routinely dedicates her books to her husband for dutifully serving as a test dummy.