596. Books, Wishes, and Extremely Good (Bad) Jokes with Sneezy, Sandra, Jenna, Lisa, and Shana

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello! Holy cow, it’s 2024. Welcome to episode number 596 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, and thank you for starting your year off with us! This is our final Holiday Wishes episode, so thank you to everyone who makes these so much fun, and we’re going to have recommendations, wishes, and terrible jokes, which is a perfect way to start off your new year. And I will have links to all of the books that we talk about, and there are many, in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode number 596.

I have a compliment this week, and it makes me so happy when I get to do these.

To Maureen: When people see sparklers or twinkly lights or fireworks or lit candles, they think of you and how much light you bring to dark times with your kindness.

If you have supported the show, thank you, and if you’d like to, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. If you join the Patreon, you get a bunch of nifty things: you get the Discord, you get bonus episodes, including Amanda and me predicting publishing and romance trends for the coming year, and apparently we’re pretty good at it, judging by 2023. You make sure every episode is accessible and make sure that every episode has a transcript – hi, garlicknitter – [hi! Happy New Year! – gk] – and you keep me going, so thank you for your consideration. If you would like to join our Patreon, it’d be lovely to have you: patreon.com/SmartBitches.

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I think it’s time to start this episode; what do you think? Kate is of course having a snack because there is nothing the cats love more than when I am on the mic and they can make noise. It is their favorite thing, so Kate agrees it’s time to start the show. On with the podcast.

[music]

Sneezy: Hello! I am Sneezy. I am still in Boba Land, aka Taiwan.

Sarah: So what is a book that you really, really enjoyed this year?

Sneezy: Okay, I’m going to cheat – [laughs] – and say a series.

Sarah: Oh!

Sneezy: But I, but I like them for the same reason, so we’re not going to be here all day. And, and also, this is my low-key, like, push to the universe for the author to write more of these, ‘cause there’s one specific character that I really, really, really, really want a happy ending for. It’s the Dark Glass series by Barb Hendee. When I got it, it was for free on her website, I think, or maybe it was Amazon. It might, it might be like a, a dollar or a couple dollars now? I forget if, if she put, put a, a price on it again. But the point is, the book starts off with a witch that was just hard done by that gets trapped in a mirror that gains sentience and was like, Let’s give people choices! Let’s give them a brief moment of clairvoyance and let them choose how they want their life to turn out for, like, a short span of time. Of course I’m just, like, really in this witch’s corner. Like, Barb Hendee, you need to write the witch out of the mirror and let her be happy, please!

But I really love this, this series because obviously my anxiety has been a ride, and one of the hardest things I struggle with, especially on top of my ADHD, is when I’m not doing well my anxiety  gremlin voices are all just, like, pounding on my head, berating me for every single choice. Choices are just harder, right.

Sarah: Yes!

Sneezy: The, the thing about this series is it kind of shows me and gives me deep, the relief of knowing, like, sure there will be different – [clears throat] excuse me – there will be different effects for different choices that you make, and maybe some bad things could happen, and also we’re resilient and smart and we’re going to get through things, and things will ultimately be okay.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: And I really need that, and also the other thing I love about this series is you learn about the characters. Like, it’s all written in first person, and I know that’s like a hard no for some people –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – I’m sorry – but it really works well in this book – in this series, I should say – because you see who the people are from the choices that they make. Why those people, why these characters would make the choices that they did –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: – and what’s ultimately important to them, and it stays consistent with what you learn about them through the book. And you can also see the way the story can continue. You can see how, like, it’s not the end of the world for things to not be okay, to be really not okay for a while.

Sarah: Yeah.

Sneezy: How maybe things not being okay for a while is ultimately a healthier choice?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sneezy: And I just, I just really needed that.

Sarah: That’s a good message, ‘cause, I mean, anxiety is trying to protect you, right?

Sneezy: Yeah.

Sarah: And you have to then, like, co-exist with it ‘cause it’s in your head, and it’s trying to keep you safe, but –

Sneezy: Yeah.

Sarah: – sometimes it’s just overinflated what’s dangerous, and, and everything –

Sneezy: Yeah!

Sarah: – is bad.

Sneezy: Exactly! That’s exactly right. But I, I want to sneak one more recommendation here, because I have been subsisting on almost exclusively webtoons this year?

Sarah: Sure.

Sneezy: And I just want to sneak in one: Baked by the Baroness. I will say I have not read the whole thing straight through, or what chapters there are available, so I can’t give accurate content warnings? But so far it’s just been very clever, and it’s one of those few webtoons where I feel like the English translation is better than the original language?

Sarah: That’s rare!

Sneezy: And they’re just all – very rare! Like, it’s one of those things where, like, the translation team just went, We’re going to have fun with this! Right.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sneezy: So they just put so many baking puns, and they’re just we’re doing baking puns the entire way through. And there’s so many bisexuals in there! Like, it’s just rampant bisexuals just being so horny.

[Laughs]

Sneezy: I, I love it so much.

Sarah: You’re not the first person at the end of the year to be like, Webtoons! All about ‘em; they’re my faves.

Sneezy: [Laughs] Hey!

Sarah: So what wishes do you have for everyone who will be listening?

Sneezy: Peace in the Middle East, please, and for everyone to love fearlessly with respect, boundaries, and joy and just run full tilt at it! Love hard. Don’t, don’t be afraid of things ending. And for artists to make bank and have rest.

Sarah: Make bank; have rest. I like this plan; this is a great plan; I’m thrilled to be a part of it.

Sneezy: Yes!

Sarah: Did you bring a joke? And it is okay if not.

Sneezy: Oh, I, I brought three, and two of them are bilingual. [Laughs] Okay, the first one is an English one:

What’s a bear’s favorite cookware?

Sarah: What’s a bear’s favorite cookware?

Sneezy: You’re going to be so mad. [Laughs]

Sarah: I give up; what is it?

Sneezy: It’s a pan, duh!

Sarah: Ohhh, geeze louise! Oh, oh boy. That, yep, you – ouch!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Groooaaan!

Sneezy: [Laughs] Okay, the second one:

So what plates are a panda’s favorite tableware?

This is a bilingual one.

Sarah: What plates are a pan- –

Sneezy: Why are plates?

Sarah: Why are plates?

Sneezy: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Why are plates a panda’s favorite dinnerware? I give up.

Sneezy: Because it’s a pan, duh! Pan in Chinese is plate!

Sarah: God!

Sneezy: [Laughs]

Sarah: So pan in Chinese is plate? Ok-

Sneezy: Yeah.

[Laughter]

Sneezy: And last one!

So what’s a bear that meows?

Sarah: What’s a bear that meows? It’s probably something panda. [Laughs]

Sneezy: Yes.

Sarah: What –

Sneezy: You’re right. [Laughs] A meow-shung! Because Māoxióng, cat bear? Is what panda is in Chinese.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Okay, I love that it got progressively more bilingual; that’s fabulous.

Sneezy: [Laughs] Yeah!

Sarah: Well, thank you! That was delightful!

Sneezy: I’m glad you enjoyed, so!

[music]

Sandra: My name is Sandra. I am located in California in the United States –

Sarah: Woohoo!

Sandra: – and I’ve been listening to your podcast for three years now!

Sarah: Oh my gosh. Wow! Thank you! Oh, that’s exciting.

So what is a book that you really, really enjoyed this year?

Sandra: I really, really enjoyed the House of Earth and Blood by Sarah J. Maas. It’s the first book in the Crescent City series, and I – I mean, enjoyed the whole series, and the third book is coming out in January, which I’m really excited about. I really enjoyed this book because I felt like it was really more like adult fantasy than what she’s written in the past, and I really like that. I don’t think this is a huge spoiler, but the main character is dealing with grief for a lot of the book, and I feel like the way that was depicted was really, like, true to life, and how it, like, affects her decision-making and her actions and, like, her thought processes, like, it actually affected the plot, and I felt like that was really great. And the depictions of, like, drug use in the book, you know, people figuring out, like, what they’re comfortable using and seeing other people make different decisions and how that impacts their lives and everything. I, I felt like that was really well done, so yeah. And there’s an epic fight scene at the, near the end of the book, and it was so fun, so satisfying; loved it. I cannot say enough. It was probably the best one I’ve ever read.

Sarah: And this was really adult. Like, like, there was some sexytimes.

Sandra: Yes. That too! Yeah! Well, I, I feel like there was sex in Throne of Glass –

Sarah: There was, yes.

Sandra: – but, like, it was very, like, hand-wavy. Like, oh, the thunder, the lightning! It’s so good! And here was not that, for sure, so, yeah.

Sarah: That’s awesome! And you get a new book in January to finish the, finish the trilogy!

Sandra: I’m really excited.

Sarah: That is very cool. What holiday wishes do you have for everyone listening?

Sandra: I hope that whatever is the one thing that people hope or most wish could be improved about their lives, I hope that they can improve that in the next year, even if it’s just a little bit or just enough to notice a difference? Yeah, I just hope everyone’s life gets a little bit better next year.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

Sandra: Yeah. Yeah. And that they can be proud that they, like, made that happen.

Sarah: That is a really good wish, that everyone has a little bit of a better, better life each, each coming year.

Sandra: Yeah! It’s a lot of work, and I feel like people also, I hope, will take time to think about what they’ve done for themselves this year.

Sarah: Oh, that’s lovely. I saw –

Sandra: Yes.

Sarah: – in your description that not only did you have a joke, but that it has been told to you twice by two different people.

Sandra: More than twice. It’s, it’s an authentic, like, I guess at this point third-generation dad joke, although my partner’s not a dad, but this is a joke that his dad tells  all the time, and the joke is that whenever we drive by the cemetery in our town he, like, points to it and he says, People are dying to get in there! It’s so bad –

Sarah: Every time! [Laughs]

Sandra: – so – it’s every time, and last week I and my partner were driving by the cemetery by ourselves, not with his dad –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Sandra: – and he said the same thing. He laughed at it afterwards; he looked really proud!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Sandra: It was really bad. It was really bad. And it’s so unoriginal! Like, it’s just insane!

Sarah: I’m so proud!

Sandra: That’s my dad joke.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s amazing!

Thank you so much for doing this, and thank you for, thank you for being part of the podcast. It’s really fun to talk to everybody at the end of the year, and most of all, thank you for listening!

Sandra: Thank you, Sarah. And also I just want to say thank you for making the Discord this year. I feel like I, you know, just discovered so many great books through it, and it’s great –

Sarah: Ohhh –

Sandra: – to just be connected with other readers…

Sarah: It’s such a lovely community of people, isn’t it?

Sandra: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s so…

Sandra: It’s really great.

[music]

Jenna Grinstead: Yes. I’m Jenna Grinstead, and I’m in Columbus, Ohio, and I’m a, I’m a YA writer and huge fan of this podcast.

Sarah: Thank you! That’s really nice to hear. What book really rocked your world this year?

Jenna: So one book that really super rocked my world, and I’m, I hope I’m allowed to talk about it, but I’m going to anyway ‘cause it, it’s not out yet. It’s, I read it as an ARC.

Sarah: Ooh!

Jenna: It is actually coming out at the end of January. It’s called Work It Out by Eva Siedler, and it is, like, I love a quirky small-town romance so much, and so it’s set in a little town in Arizona called Big Bone –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Jenna: – and it’s all – I know, right? And the funny part, too, is it’s set at a gym that is called Explosion, and our adorable gym owner has not put together the fact that she’s, you know, named her gym Big Bone Explosion, right? It’s adorable, it’s super steamy, and it’s great because the gym owner is kind of on the brink of losing her gym? So one of her employees decides he’s going to help her save it by convincing his friend that he grew up with who’s a B-list actor in Hollywood that this’ll be the perfect place for him to get in shape for a superhero role –

Sarah: Of course.

Jenna: – something he cannot do in LA because he has POTS, and as I understand it this author also has POTS, so you’ve got this sort of chronic illness piece in the backdrop, but so funny. You know, those moments where you kind of like also tear up, you know? It’s a grumpy/sunshine. She wants to save her gym, but she’s very lawsuit-averse, and he’s kind of keeping his condition hidden at first, and then she finds out, and so it’s just fantastic. So that is my, is my cannot wait for it to come out, can’t wait for everybody to read it.

Sarah: That is awesome.

Jenna: And I’m a YA author, so if I could slip in one YA for you –

Sarah: Of course! Some people are like, show up and are like, Well, I bought five, I brought a list of five books, and I’m like, That’s fine! Go ahead! [Laughs]

Jenna: Okay! I, I also would, for, so if you’re a YA reader and a sapphic YA that came out this year, it’s a fantasy; it’s called Hearts Forged in Dragon Fire by Erica Hollis, and it is great. It is such a great book. It is a fantasy world; this is a person who talks to dragons? She’s got, like, a special skill set, and she is enlisted to come and try to negotiate with a dragon that is threatening to holding this whole town hostage. Wants to destroy the town, and she’s got to figure out how do you negotiate with this, like, crazed dragon to get the town back? And falls in love in the process, and it’s just so yummy! I love it.

Sarah: That’s a great title, too.

Jenna: Isn’t it? And then two others I’ll slip in –

Sarah: Go for it.

Jenna: – that are not YAs; they’re contemporaries. Jen DeLuca – I don’t know if you’ve heard of her Renaissance Faire series? Maybe I even found her through your podcast. It’s hard to remember, but I, I really, really, really loved her, her series that started with Well Met at Renaissance Faire is really fun.

And then Roni Loren, I discovered a series of three books written by her, the first of which is called Yes & I Love You? It’s improv and anxiety and Tourette’s in a coworking space, and so that’s super fun. I really love that book. I love everything she writes, and I have Tourette syndrome, so I was kind of like, uh, I, I don’t, I don’t know how I’m going to feel about this. Like, it’s always portrayed, I think, negatively in books, and totally surprised to find this book with the Tourette’s rep being, like, so spot on. Like, it was just great.

Sarah: And Tourette’s has such a range. Like, you only see this very, very narrow portrayal, and, and it’s actually this whole range of different neurological outcomes, right?

Jenna: Yes! It’s tot- – and I belong to a Tourette’s writing group, and I was like, Everybody has to read this! It’s like there, there is a character who has Tourette’s in one way, and then another character who has it in a different way. So some people shout out words; I don’t shout out words, so it was nice to see a character that didn’t. My, I’m working on a YA, actually, right now with a, a Tourette’s character, and I had, like, given her a shout-out on social media like, Hey, this is a book I wish I would have had when I was younger, and she was like, Great! You should write some yourself too! Like, so just like as an author, so supportive, right?

Sarah: Yeah. And Roni Loren has done a lot of, Here’s part of my process; here’s what I do. She’s very instructional in her, in her public-facing work, which I appreciate, because it’s, I think it’s important especially, and I’m sure you, you’ve encountered this, to sort of demystify that there’s only one way to write a book, and there’s only one way to develop a plot, and there’s only one way to do things. No, there’s like fifty million ways to do things!

Jenna: Yeah, and, and she does provide a lot of great resources. Her, her newsletter is great for that too.

Sarah: Yes.

So what holiday wishes do you have for everyone listening?

Jenna: My holiday wish, I think it would just, it would just be great if we could all be a little nicer to each other.

Sarah: Yeah.

Jenna: Like, it does sort of seem like that post-pandemic rage is still, like, running through people driving, shopping, out in the world, and I just keep kind of taking a breath and saying like, What if we were all just a little nicer to each other?

Sarah: Right? Let’s all just chill and be kind?

Jenna: I just wish everyone could, for the holidays, take a breath –

Sarah: Yeah.

Jenna: – and just assume innocence. Wow, that –

Sarah: Yes!

Jenna: The other day I was behind this person; they were driving a billion miles an hour; like, moving in and out of lanes; and I was just getting so frustrated with them; and then they exited, and as they exited I was like, That’s the hospital exit.

Sarah: Yeah.

Jenna: So I just, like, took this breath of like, I have no…

Sarah: Maybe something’s real wrong.

Jenna: …what was going on in that car, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Jenna: And maybe they weren’t going to the hospital. I mean, there’s also bars off that exit, but I’m going to assume they were going to the hospital and just say I wish them well.

Sarah: Yeah. Wherever you’re going, whether you have to pee or someone’s in labor, hope everything comes out okay.

Jenna: [Laughs] That’s right!

Sarah: My last question is did you bring a bad joke?

Jenna: I did, and, because I knew that my, my book pick was going to be Work It Out, which takes place in a gym, I decided to make it fitness-themed.

Sarah: A themed bad joke? Oh!

Jenna: It’s fitness-themed –

Sarah: Oh, I’m excited!

Jenna: – and do not take this as any connection or account to, to the book, but other than it’s fitness-themed.

Why do hamburgers go to the gym?

Sarah: Why do hamburgers go to the gym? I cannot wait to inflict this on my family. Why? Why do hamburgers go to the gym?

Jenna: To get better buns!

Sarah: [Laughs] I should have seen that coming; that’s perfect!

Thank you very, very much for doing this!

Jenna: Oh my gosh, thank you, and thank you for just making a lot of years of commute so much more joyful and introducing me to some awesome books and just inspiring authors. I really appreciate you.

Sarah: Thank you! It is really an honor to keep everybody company, and it’s an honor to hang out with you on your commute, so thank you for, thank you for listening, and thank you for keeping up with the show for so many, many, many years.

[music]

Lisa May: I’m so excited to be here, I just can’t tell you.

Sarah: Aw! Thank you! That’s really nice to hear!

Lisa: I’m…listening to…and when I got the invitation I was just like, Oh! Chance to join in.

Sarah: Shall we get started?

Lisa: Can I just say thank you for something before we do?

Sarah: Of course!

Lisa: I didn’t want – I don’t remember where you recommended it, but the, the T-O-D-Y app for tracking, like, cleaning around the house? I just can’t tell you what a difference that’s made in my life.

Sarah: Really!

Lisa: I have anxiety, and it just, it helped me organize cleaning in a way – I just think of you and bless you every day for that, so just –

Sarah: Oh! That is really, really nice to hear; thank you. I also have anxiety, and it sucks. I’m so, so happy it works for you.

Lisa: …the website, so yeah, and I don’t know how to pronounce it, if it’s Toady or Tidy or To Die or, I don’t know, so I spell it out for people ‘cause it’s really embarrassing.

Sarah: That is so great!

Lisa: So thank you.

Sarah: You are so welcome!

Would you please introduce yourself?

Lisa: I’m Lisa May, and I’m in Houston, Texas.

Sarah: Well, tell me, what is a book that you really, really enjoyed this year?

Lisa: I actually had to make a stack as I tried to winnow it down to just one book.

Sarah: You are not alone in this problem, so please tell me, tell me everything! Tell me all about it.

Lisa: Well, I’m starting with Melissa Scott and Lisa Barnett’s Point of Hopes, which is the first of five in a series, the Astreiant novels, which was a KJ Charles recommendation.

Sarah: Ooh!

Lisa: Fantasy with an m/m pairing, but just, you know, very, very queer. But also, it’s a world where women are the default.

Sarah: Huh!

Lisa: It’s a matriarchy. It’s just, if there’s a character, it’s a woman. They tell you if it’s not a woman. And it was just fascinating for me, because it really made me question my own, you know, how poisoned I’ve been by the patriarchy. And Melissa Scott’s partner, Lisa Barnett, passed on, but she wrote some of the books herself and is continuing to write, and she’s just, it’s just fabulous. So I love that series so much. I glommed all five of them in, I don’t know, two weeks? [Laughs]

Sarah: Wow! This is a, this is an established series, though. This started in 2012! This series –

Lisa: Yeah!

Sarah: – is over ten years old! How awesome!

Lisa: Yeah, she just recently came out with a, with a new one sort of mid, you know, early in the series. So that’s where, I think, KJ Charles kind of highlighted that one and caught my attention. Your, your podcast, KJ Charles’s recommendations on Goodreads, it’s like y’all are just dangerous for my, for my –

Sarah: KJ Charles has great taste.

Lisa: But so does everyone on, you know, when you guys come out with the Whatcha Reading, I just sit there with that open and my, and my library tab and just start clicking.

Sarah: Do you know about Library Extension for Chrome?

Lisa: Yeess!

Sarah: Yeah, I, I have like one, two, three, four, five, five libraries loaded into my Chrome extension, so I can just check, check, check, check.

Lisa: Yes!

Sarah: Yeah, it’s a dangerous thing.

Lisa: You are my people.

[Laughter]

Sarah: What’s next?

Lisa: Martha Wells, the Witch King? I am, I’m a Murderbot stan, but I also love her Raksura books, but to me, Witch King just blew me out of the water this year. It – and I know some people were like, Well, it’s not Murderbot, but I was the opposite. It’s like, no, this book just sucked me in, and I don’t know that I – it was a Bad Decisions Book Club.

Sarah: Oh yeah. And the thing about Wells is that no matter what the point of view character is, there’s a common thread of Why is everyone around me so frigging annoying? No matter what the setting is, what the world is, there’s this sort of thread of Gosh, other beings are bothersome, which I very much relate to!

Lisa: But also the found family, that they build community and they find their people, you know –

Sarah: Yes.

Lisa: – in the midst of all the annoying people. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes, they find their people, even – especially with the case of Murderbot and with the Raksura stories. They don’t think they’re going to find their people; they don’t think they have people.

Lisa: And did you see they’re, they’re going to film Murderbot?

Sarah: I did!

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, hi, kitty!

Lisa: Hello, Sophie!

Sarah: Is that Sophie? Sophie gets a line in the transcript. If, if it’s on the mic, it’s in the transcript. Hi, Sophie!

Lisa: I think she hears me talking and she’s like, Let me just come over and see what’s going on over here.

Sarah: So what’s next?

Lisa: The Last Karankawas by Kimberly Garza is a book set in Galveston and focused on a Native American and Filipino community. And I’m fifty miles from Galveston, but this is the most Texas book I’ve ever read. I just –

Sarah: Really!

Lisa: I could smell the ocean, and then she takes the folks through Hurricane, Hurricane Ike, too, which I was here for that, so it was very evocative on so many levels.

Sarah: Wow!

Lisa: So if somebody wants to know what Galveston is like before they get a chance to visit it, I would, I would highly recommend. And this is immigrant Texans and established Texans, and you know, it just, it –

Sarah: Oh.

Lisa: – makes the point that Texas is not, you know, monocultural or…

Sarah: What?

Lisa: Yeah!

Sarah: You don’t say!

Lisa: And queer-friendly too, so.

Sarah: So do you have any additional books to tell me about?

Lisa: To Shape a Dragon’s Breath by Monique Blackgoose, Moniquill Blackgoose, sorry. This book, you know, an AU America where the Norse were the colonizers, not the British, and the Native Americans, they find a dragon’s egg and then how to integrate them into this still-very-white Nordic, you know, oppressive culture, but now the, the Native Americans have dragons again, and it was just, it was so immersive, and I love AU, especially American history where, you know, some of the inequalities and, and problems are addressed. I just, I thought it was amazing. I hope there’s a sequel.

Sarah: That sounds incredible!

Lisa: Again, very queer-friendly, very feminist?

Sarah: Ooh!

Lisa: You know, addressing two, two-spirit people, which I just learned from Jonathan Van Ness’s podcast was something that was, Christian missionaries just stamped out of the Native American communities, and I just thought that was fascinating. It’s –

Sarah: And dragons.

Lisa: And dragons!

Sarah: And dragons.

Lisa: …dragons.

Sarah: I mean if –

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: – if you’re going to create an alternate reality in the US that is predicated on reversing a known oppression, and then you add a dragon, you are making good choices.

Lisa: I could not agree more!

Sarah: [Laughs] Just, just add a dragon! It’s going to be even better!

Lisa: Yes! I mean!

Sarah: That sounds so cool!

Lisa: Yeah. And I know Fourth Wing is sort of the dragon book everybody’s talking about, but I, I just wish this book had sort of gotten more traction, I guess.

Sarah: So what wishes do you have for the people who will be listening?

Lisa: I started thinking I wanted people to, to be safe and to feel safe.

Sarah: Yes.

Lisa: And that kind of led me to the four freedoms? You know, freedom from fear and freedom from want, and then the positives, freedom of, of speech and freedom of worship, and I feel like those two, in Texas and other parts of the world, are kind of under attack, but I just –

Sarah: Yeah.

Lisa: – I just – I know next year’s going to be a wild ride for us.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Lisa: …here in Texas, here in the world, but I just want people to be safe and feel safe.

Sarah: Yeah. I agree. Be safe and feel safe and be, feel safe being who you are.

Lisa: Yes! Yes, thank you; yes, absolutely.

Sarah: Well, did you bring a bad joke? It is okay if not.

Lisa: It’s, it’s a family, a family Christmas joke, and it got to the point where we didn’t actually have to tell the joke; we just all recite the punch line?

Sarah: I. Love this. So much. Tell me everything.

Lisa: Hopefully you’ve heard it, but about the, the child who really, really wanted a pony and was badgering, badgering their parents, badgering their parents for a pony, and finally the parents were like, you know, we don’t have a big yard; we don’t have space for a pony. And the child said, Well, the, the pony can live in my room. And the parents said, Well, you know, what about the smell? And the kid said, Well, the horse will have to get used to it too?

Sarah: [Laughs] I have not heard that one, and I’m delighted!

Lisa: …we just say, Well, you know, the horse will have to get used to it too, and…

Sarah: Eh, the horse’ll have to get used to it. Okay, that is hilarious; thank you. Thank you for sharing your family joke.

[Laughter]

Sarah: And thank you for doing this; I really appreciate it.

Lisa: I, I just cannot express to you how much it meant to me to be able to do this. I mean, the, the website, the podcast, you’ve just been a light in the darkness for me, so thank you so much. Well, I love the Hanukkah, you know, and everybody sharing and everybody, what made them happy and –

Sarah: Yeah. It’s a very warm and fuzzy comment thread.

Lisa: Yes, plus adding to my reading list. [Laughs]

Sarah: Little, little bit; yeah, me too. [Laughs]

[music]

Shana: Hi! I’m Shana. I am one of the Smart Bitches reviewers, and I’m also a grad student.

Sarah: Yay!

Shana: I’m studying social work and narrative therapy, and I’m in California right now, where it’s raining.

Sarah: Ugh! So what is narrative therapy?

Shana: Oh, well, narrative therapy is like thinking about the story of your life in order to understand your past and to be more comfortable in your present and hopefully to have mental health in the future.

Sarah: Oh, I love this plan! So what does that mean when my brain is like, Hey, remember that super embarrassing thing you did like fifteen years ago? Do you want to relive it? It’s three in the morning –

Shana: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I know you’re not busy, so how about we – and usually my, my response to that part of my brain is, Yeah, but I’ve already felt that embarrassment like sixty times. What if I just never do that again?

Shana: I know, but your brain is probably trying to help you out by thinking if you can just kind of relitigate the past that –

Sarah: Again!

Shana: – you can prevent yourself from experiencing that pain in the future.

Sarah: I appreciate – I appreciate that my anxiety is trying to keep me safe. I wish my anxiety was like, Listen, we need a new playlist of things that are embarrassing for me to think about at three in the morning.

Shana: [Laughs]

Sarah: I need to update my playlist here.

So you have, you have people write or engage with the narrative of their stories to, to look for, basically, patterns and events that will help them inform their present and their future?

Shana: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and to tell a different story because, you know, if you have something you’re anxious about and you’re waking up at 3 am, and it’s probably hooked into the story you have about yourself that isn’t very nice and isn’t rooted in self-compassion.

Sarah: Right.

Shana: And, you know, if you could tell a story about yourself that is more compassionate towards yourself, maybe that you were doing the best you can in the circumstances, and also there might have been outside factors that you’re not really considering that might have impacted what happened. It’s not that you were necessarily a terrible person? Then, like, that might give you an opportunity to heal a little bit and maybe be more compassionate toward yourself in the future if you’re thinking about yourself as, like, Wow, I’m someone who really cares about other people; that’s why I cared what they thought.

Sarah: Yeah.

Shana: Like, that’s way better than What is wrong with me that I care about what other people think of me?

Sarah: Yeah. That is absolutely – and it’s, it’s basically reframing, right?

Shana: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Wow. How are you enjoying studies? Apart from the stress –

Shana: Well –

Sarah: – and class part? And the part where there’s lots of other people.

Shana: [Laughs] I’m really enjoying being on winter break right now, to be honest.

Sarah: So what is a book that you really, really enjoyed this year?

Shana: So this is unusually easy for me –

Sarah: Ooh!

Shana: – actually – [laughs] – to figure out, ‘cause I went back and looked at my helpful little spreadsheet of what I’ve read.

Sarah: Spreadsheet.

Shana: The same one that you send out every year is the one that I use.

Sarah: Wait till you, wait till you see this year’s; there’s a superpowered version with, like, dropdown menus and, and, like –

Shana: Oooh!

Sarah: – if you listen to audiobooks it’ll have you track time listened. Like, it’s –

Shana: Wow!

Sarah: Yeah, there’s a superpowered one coming this year. I’m excited.

Shana: All right, I’m looking forward to that. [Laughs] This is the time for all of those, like, life, household, fun activities.

Sarah: Yeah!

Shana: Right? Before you have to go back to work and school.

But yeah, so the book for me is A Memory Called Empire by Arkady Martine. I have no idea if I’m pronouncing that name right, but I really, really, really loved it. Like, I think it was one of those science fiction books where the worldbuilding is so creative and complete and so, like, politically astute that you just feel safe. Like, you just feel like you’re being held in someone else’s imagination, someone who is unlikely to do something fucked up. And so for me it just brought me a lot of joy. I loved all the characters. There’s, like, a sapphic romance that happens, which is why this kind of, I think, tipped for me a little bit above some of the other sci-fi I read, because I love a romance. [Laughs] I love a lesbian romance, and the worldbuilding was just fun! Also, the main character, she’s, you know, from a small station; she’s visiting a big empire; so there was just lots of political intrigue around, like, colonialism and how we internalize our ideas about ourselves? So I really appreciated that, especially because the, the way that the, her station works, they pass on memories from the previous person who held the role, so you have this kind of, well, like, it’s, in therapy speak it’s almost like internal family systems. You have all these people that are hanging out in your head who you get to kind of connect with, and you have their memories, and you kind of become greater than the sum of your parts. So thinking about generational, like, learning, and also kind of generational trauma, it was just really fascinating! And it was, and it was fun. And it involved a lot of really good dialogue, so, like, fun banter, fun worldbuilding, girls in love, like, political drama. I will be happy if you have all those things, and it did!

Sarah: You know, I interviewed the author back in March 2019 in the Beforetimes.

Shana: No, I’m going to have to go back and listen to that!

Sarah: I’ll give you a link, and not only is Arkady Martine a science fiction and fantasy writer, but in their day job they’re a Byzantine scholar and narratologist, so the whole episode is about narratology and how story works.

Shana: What?! First of all, it sounds like we should be best friends.

Sarah: Yes, it sounds like you guys need to know each other.

Shana: [Laughs]

Sarah: But it’s basically, she is studying and, and working in the field of how, of cognitive narratology: basically, how does the brain respond when it is experiencing a narrative?

Shana: Oooh!

Sarah: Yeah, so this is clearly up your street. I will send you the link –

Shana: Yeah, totally!

Sarah: – to this episode.

Shana: Ha-ha, it’s so funny. Well, I guess it does make sense why I loved the book.

Sarah: Yeah. It, it is entirely appropriate that you like this book. That is very, very cool.

Shana: I like it when your book tastes tell on you.

Sarah: Yeah. Like, oh, you like that? Have you read System Collapse, the latest Murderbot novel yet?

Shana: I just bought it yesterday, actually. It’s –

Sarah: Speaking of narratology, how and to whom a story is told and how you convey that story is part, is a major part of the plot.

Shana: Oooh! I’m really excited!

Sarah: So what wishes do you have for people who are listening?

Shana: Well, I was actually thinking about Kwanzaa this year, which is not a holiday that I’ve usually celebrated, but I went to Disneyland this month –

Sarah: Ooh!

Shana: – and I found myself in the Kwanzaa section, and I didn’t realize it. I just thought, Wow, this food is delicious! This music is really good! I feel so welcomed! And then I looked up and there was like a giant Kwanzaa Mickey head, and I realized I had, like, wandered into the Black people section and had effectively, like, it worked for me! Like, I love Disneyland!

Sarah: I am crying. [Laughs]

Shana: It was, it was really ethic, and…

Sarah: What is happening? The food is so good! And the music –

Shana: Everything is amazing here! There’s all these Black people singing and dancing. Like, this band came out. So they sang a song about Kwanzaa. I really liked the section on the self-determination principle?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Shana: So I’ve been thinking a lot about that, so I think that would be my wish for people is to get to have the self-determination that they want over their lives.

Sarah: Yeah!

Shana: You know, we’re having wars right now; it’s like a stressful time; like –

Sarah: Just a little bit.

Shana: Yeah! We deserve to be able to determine for ourselves what our life looks like, so that would be my hope.

Sarah: I love that! And did you bring a bad joke?

Shana: I actually did, because I watched a Hallmark lesbian movie last night. I don’t know if it was Hallmark’s first lesbian movie? It was definitely the first lesbian movie by Hallmark that I watched? And it’s really cute. It’s called Friends & Family Christmas, and in that movie the, the two leads, they’re fake dating because their dads are best friends. And it’s very cute, but the, one of the dads tells constant dad jokes during the movie. It was perfect timing for this, Sarah, and the first dad joke he tells is a knitting joke? So you just could not be more niche about my needs?

Sarah: You are just stumbling into things that are made for you!

Shana: Pretty much! That is the theme of December, right, for me? [Laughs] All right, so the dad joke is:

What are the best Christmas sweaters made with?

Sarah: What are the best Christmas sweaters made with? I do not know.

Shana: Fleece Navidad.

Sarah: Nooo!

Shana: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, that, ooh, I did not see that coming!

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s brilliant!

Well, thank you! Thank you for doing this!

Shana: Of course! Thank you for having me. Bye!

Sarah: Fleece Navidad.

[Laughter]

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode and the end of our holiday wishes for this holiday season. Thank you so very much to everyone who connected with me. It is an honor to talk to you, and it’s an honor to be in your ears each week. And so it’s really, really special to see your faces and say hello.

I also want to thank you for all of the reviews that you have left the show. Thank you. It has made such a difference in the discoverability of the show, and I might get teary, because you said some lovely, nice things. I want to say thank you to E. Whit who wrote:

>> Just the best podcast! I look forward to my Friday morning podcast update every week.

Thank you! That is really, really nice to hear. I hope this show makes your week, and I hope the show makes your week, you who are listening right now. Hi. Thank you.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. And I’ve had a bunch of jokes in these episodes, so why not have one more? This joke is from Bull. Hey, Bull!

How do you end a novel that’s about lumberjacks?

Give up? How do you end a novel about lumberjacks?

With an epilog.

[Laughs] I really hope there’s a lumberjack romance and at the end there’s an epi-log – L-O-G. Ha-ha! Thank you, Bull!

On behalf of all of my cats, who love it when the mic is live, and me and everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful new year. We will see you back here next week.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of fun music]