A little while ago, in an entry entitled The Glittery HooHa, Jennifer Crusie talked about a slutty hero who sleeps with at least twelve women before he gets to the heroine. The question that immediately popped up in my mind was: What exactly did she mean by that? Twelve women at once? Twelve women in a day? Twelve women over the course of the story before he gets to the heroine? Or just twelve women total over the course of his life?
Because if she meant the last, the hero doesn’t seem to strike me as especially promiscuous. Shit, I outstripped the dozen (hell, I outstripped the baker’s dozen) a little while ago. Though it’s entirely possible this means I’m a slutbag of the highest order.
This brought up all sorts of interesting questions for me: where are our slut lines drawn? Are they different depending on gender? Is it determined solely by number, or the way in which the character engages in the sexual encounters? Is sluttiness morally charged? Is the morality different depending on gender as well?
The number thing was especially slippery for me. I don’t, as far as I know, consciously subscribe to sexual double standards, so I don’t view a woman who’s slept with 10 people as being sluttier than a man who’s slept with as many, though the implications are different for a historical romance vs. a contemporary—it was somewhat easier for a high-born dude to reach that number than a gently-reared woman, for one, which means the woman had to have been exceptionally powerful, or exceptionally enterprising, or both.
The manner in which the sex is conducted also affects somebody’s slut rating. Were they emotionally attached to all their sexual partners? In the strange space of My Head, this makes them serially monogamous, not slutty. Sluttiness, to me, means taking on lovers solely for the sake of sexual pleasure.
Keep in mind, sluttiness is not really a morally charged issue for me. I’m all for fictional (and non-fictional) characters enjoying the fizznuckin’ for its own sake, and I certainly don’t think having many sexual partners is indicative of some kind of moral turpitude, though after a certain number, the phrase “germ farm” does tend to crop up—and again, this is especially true of historical romances.
So how many partners before somebody is considered a slut, assuming it’s over the lifetime of a character before they meet their True Lurve? I finally settled on an entirely arbitrary number: 30. If you’ve slept with more than 30 people, you’re slutty in my book. Condoms and confetti for everybuddy!
What’s your slut number?
Edited to Add:
Piezocuttlefish came up with a pretty awesome mathematical formula in the comments. Check it:
So, it’s possibly to have been a slut but to no longer be one, so one must include some sort of partners during a rolling time period. Also, people below a certain age are difficult to conceive as sluts, regardless of how accurate the internal designation may be. In my concept, if you’re eleven years old, no matter how many people you’re boinking, you may well be a slut-in-making, but you’re not there yet. Also, there’s a concept of age at play. If someone in high school boinks five people in a year, he may just be an average, exploring teenager. If a 50 year old boinks five people in a year, he’s got some serious play going on. Somehow, we have to take all these into account.
The rolling period is as follows:
high school or earlier: three months
college: five months
higher education or under 30: nine months
30 – 49: one year
50+: two yearsSQ == Slut Quotient
n == total number of sex partners
nr == number of sex partners in the effective rolling period.
ea == effective age, which I’m defining as years of age minus eleven, raised to the two-thirds power.SQ(n,ea,nr) = n / (5 * ea) + nr / 10
If your SQ is >=1, you’re probably going to be seen as a slut.
My SQ, by the way, is approximately 1.26. Vive la sluttihood!
My Slut Number is lower than my Erdos-Bacon Number.
Is the Slut Number just plain vanilla cock-on-vadge? Because if we get to include oral, anal, and Dueling Va-jay-jays, I’m, like, 17.
42.
And I’d like to say that my new favorite word is fizznuckin’. Thanks Candy!
I think when you lose count, you’ve hit your slut number. Or possibly if you can’t remember their names. Or something like that.
Hmmm, I am kind of a prude in real life, but as long as it makes sense for the character, in fiction just about anything goes.
I think a lot depends on the age of the main character. Thirty partners in a young adult novel? Probably not. For a chick lit heroine, I will go with just about anything. I will take a “slutty” character over the “no reason at all” virgin characters. She’s never had sex b/c she like, oh my god, never thought about it until the hero came along. Even when I was a virgin I hated those characters.
I don’t consider people “sluts” based on the number of sex partners they’ve had.
People who regularly use sex as a manipulative tool, on the other hand…
38 seems a decent (heh) Slut Number, considering that in Romancelandia, the hero and heroine in question usually aren’t out of their 30’s.
But, why is the dirty deed being done with all these non-true-lurve people? As you said, the reasons do change the outcome.
Is it because of emotional attachment or simple pleasure for both partners? Then, the Slut Number could be much higher. Is sex being used as a tool of emotional or physical manipulation, revenge, etc.? Then, the Number is irrelevant – that’s a slut in my book, even if the number of partners is 1.
A very slippery number indeed – and totally dependent on the attitude / emotions of the participants involved…
What if you never knew their names? Just askin’
I don’t have a realistic hard-and-fast slut number, but I do have this. A friend of mine came up with the idea that once you’ve voluntarily and not as a career choice slept with 100 different people, your equipment should cease to function.
And I would have to agree. So anything more than 100 is definitely slutty in my book—but I imagine that’s fairly unrealistic.
4789.5
I like to think of it in proportion. If the hero has slept with 50 women, and the heroine none, then 50/0 (an impossible number) means the the hero is infinitely slutty.
If they’ve each slept with 50, then we’ve a 1:1 slut ratio, all is right with the world.
I really laughed my head off in Mr. and Mrs. Smith when he said that he slept with “high 50’s, low 60’s” number of women, and she comes back with 300 some dudes. A 5-to-1 slut ratio in the heroine’s favor isn’t something we see every day.
Word Verif: outside76. No, not me, I’m definitely inside 76.
I remember the Glittery HooHa. I had the impression the problem was the hero sleeping with many women during the story, or maybe he slept with them immediately before he went after the heroine. So maybe the slut number needs a time dimension. A density of dicking. A calendar of coochiecoo.
Even so, I wouldn’t call someone a slut just based on a high-number lifestyle. It all depends on context. E.g. I could make a strong case for a slut number of TWO: one for the slut who made a move on my boyfriend, and one for the slut who took her up on it.
Always one more than number of people I have bumped nasties with…. (ok so I married young and that number is not as impressive as many of my friends, but surely below the slut number.)
Shit, I outstripped the dozen (hell, I outstripped the baker’s dozen) a little while ago. Though it’s entirely possible this means I’m a slutbag of the highest order.
Amateur! Unless you have spent five whole days at The Ritch Street Baths in San Francisco then you will never ever be as big a slut I am. I could at least have remembered them all if it was only 30.
Fizznuckin’ is a fantabulous word!
As for the slut-o-meter…I have to say it goes with the why of the sluttin’ rather than the number (though triple digits is prolly just straight slutty). If she’s jumping from man to man because she wants notches on her bedpost, or street cred, or for manipulative reasons, that is slutty in my mind. If she at least likes the dude and knows the names of most of the people (‘cuz GLBT can be slutty too) in her past, then there is some kind of emotional involvement and it’s not as sluttified.
I thought the numbers in Mr. and Mrs. Smith refered to the people they had each killed, not how many they’d slept with. I have to go back and watch it again now.
I think when you lose count, you’ve hit your slut number. Or possibly if you can’t remember their names. Or something like that.
Nuh uh.
sigh. I’d like to protest the term SLUTTY. I think friendly is a better term. I mean, the 80’s were DELIGHTFUL. And the drinkin’ age was lower…er, that may have contributed to my somewhat high number of guys whose names begin with an R..or B..or maybe a T????
Most of the (lying) women I know say that they have only slept with 5 or so people. For real. Man, I just keep my mouth closed (first time, really) and nod. yes. 5 it is.
Hmmm… Maybe I’m a slut but I tend to fall into the (safe) sex as fun-thing-to-do with no moral implications, so long as you’re not in a committed relationship. Then it gets kind of weird. But even there I guess it’s possible so long as you’re honest about it, and it doesn’t hurt either partner. Although it’s probably really, really hard with the way sexual mores are in our society.
And can I say how much I hate, hate, HATE the glittery hooha?! It’s just lazy writing – I mean, why bother actually making the effort to *show* how they fall for each other if you can just have them, for no discernable reason, fall in love at first sight… Other than the GHH, apparently. *Grrrr!*
If they did not want me to try them all then they should not have made so many different kinds.
Teddy Pig:
Hahahahahahaha!
Oh my. I may have to put that up on my blog. Might I steal that?
Feel free. Still working on your list.
I am trying to get the original covers.
I’m with Nonny. Sluttiness isn’t dependent upon the number of your partners.
Sluttiness is a state of mind (also a state of attire at times).
I’d say sluttiness is more about context than numbers.
But this is reminding me of an episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show. When Lou Grant is dating the lounge singer woman and, I think, is breaking up with her because he’s sick of being ribbed about her reputation? Mary asks how many men have to have been in a woman’s life before she’s “that kind of woman,” and Lou says “Six.”
Mary rants a little about how stupid it is to be worried about what people think, or if a woman has a past. I think she leaves his office and comes back a couple of times, and finally when she sounds like she’s done, she sticks her head back in the door and asks, “Six?”
I’d just like to point out that if you become sexually active at the entirely reasonable age of 18, and proceed to have two new partners per year, you’ll hit 30 partners at age 33.
I don’t think sluttiness is a function of numbers so much as pickiness. I’d only apply the term to sleep with anything that moves sort of behavior, not someone who’s slept with a large number of desirable partners (however you define desirable).
I was pondering this question a few years ago, and suveyed my friends. I discovered that the numbers differed by sexual preference and marital status.
Gay men never said a number less than 50.
Lesbians never said a number over 10.
Single straights were the most vague, and said anywhere between 12 and 35.
I had one person who said anything over than 1 was slutty. But she was a bible thumper who got married at 16.
The response I liked the best was “no more than your age.” It was highlighted the absurdity of the question.
I tend to use the terms slut and sluttiness in certain ways. For one, I don’t use it pejoratively, unless it’s to good-naturedly tease a friend (similar to the way I use “pussy” or “fag” or “gay”). Sluttiness, to me, holds the following dimensions:
1. Promiscuity: the person has had to have slept with what I consider to be a large number of people.
2. Lack of emotional attachment: the person slept with the vast majority of people without feeling any sort of emotional attachment to them.
There are other dimensions that are typically associated with sluttiness: lack of discernment, infidelity, etc., but I tend to view those as optional add-ons and not an essential component of being a slut.
I consider myself to be reasonably slutty for a nerdy little girl who was raised by over-protective parents. God knows that 10 years ago, I would’ve boggled at the notion that I’d sleep with more 5 people over the course of my life, much less more than 10….
Defining sluttiness is a little like the definition of porn “you know it when you see it.”
Candy just totally called me a slut. LOL!
I am a slut, I’m a big fat slut, I’m the biggest slut in the whole wide world.
Sing it with me (to the tune of “Kyle’s Mom’s a Bitchâ€).
No really, I’m with Nonny on this one. It’s about the hows and the whys, etc.
And I can’t believe no one has brought up what “counts”. *grin* I once had an argument with a girl who said she’d broken up with her boyfriend because he’d admitted to sleeping with 8 people (!) and that made him a dirty slut. I looked her straight in the eye and said, “Honey, I can name more than eight that you’ve slept with.” She insisted she’d only had sex with 3. Her definition was very strict (and very Catholic school girl). When I pointed out that under her “rules†lesbians were incapable of having sex she was gobsmacked, and tried to argue that certain acts counted for lezzies but not for her. *roll eyes*
Ï€.
It’s all context. If you get Brittany-drunk and do it with anonymous frat boys, you’re slutty. If you do it wearing fishnets with a guy you met less than 2 hours ago, you’re slutty. If you do it with your roommate’s boyfriend, you’re slutty. If you give your boss a below job in the parking during the company Christmas party, well, you get the idea…
This is a question I’ve struggled with for myself since realizing that while I don’t believe in the double standard, it has nevertheless managed to wrap its tentacles around my moral compass anyway. This was brought home to me some years ago when a group of us were discussing our numbers and one of my friends couldn’t really say what hers was, though she knew it had to be around 100. Since the second highest number amongst our group was closer to a dozen, that made for quite the discrepancy.
After getting over the instinctive “Now that’s slutty” response that rang round my head, I thought deeper about it and knew this friend was working through some serious Daddy Issues and felt she was more to be pitied than condemned.
But that experience informed my response to this question in that I think I’m with AmandaG: it has more to do with how anonymous the sex vs. a specific number.
Finally, a query to Lucinda Betts: how does one achieve .5? My mind is coming up with all kinds of answers – some of which one can’t really speak of in polite company ;-).
aaaaaand SB Sarah for the win!
Hey Nadia: Color me slutty then I guess.
JK. I’d NEVER do those things. No way. I’m a mom, for heaven’s sake. Not even in my distant hazy past…
Yep, Candy thinks I’m a slut too. 🙂 I’m definitely with the “depends how/why” category. And to me, “Because it feels good to insert Tab A into Slot B” is a perfectly legitimate reason as long as no one is emotionally or physically hurt.
I have to say that sounds waaaaaay more fun than sitting on the street outside one of ‘em because your mom’s inside w/ her best friend the owner and they don’t think you should be in there.
Nonny nailed it. Manupulative intent determines sluttiness.
Number of partners and what one chooses to wear are both irrelevant. Even whether you know your partner’s name doesn’t really matter, though I’d personally have a hard time getting off during anonymous fizznuckin’.
Fiveandfour,
There is nothing polite about .5! But it’s fun anyway. No one shoudl ask this question of an erotic romance author!
I thought the numbers in Mr. and Mrs. Smith refered to the people they had each killed, not how many they’d slept with. I have to go back and watch it again now.
Don’t worry. I thought the same thing. I think at first they wanted you to think it was number of people they’d slept with but then when she said sometimes 2 at the same time I think it was clear they meant people they’d killed.
As for slut number, hmmm. Arbitrarily: 60. But I think it also depends on age, circumstance, etc.
For instance, in high school if you’re 16 and you’ve slept with a number half your age? Then you would get labeled a slut. If you’re 30 and you’ve slept with the same number (i.e. 8) then you wouldn’t be called a slut. By me at least. I’m sure there are certain sects who would call you a slut if you’ve slept with anyone but your husband/wife.
Lisabea, I’m still on number 1.
Sigh.
That may play into people’s perception’s of sluttiness – what’s normal in their social circle – which presumably varies by age, culture and location.
For me sluttiness is to do with making yourself sexually available for the wrong reasons – which is different than promiscuity. So not about numbers – more the sort of behaviours Nadia talked about.
I’m going with the “it’s only slutty if you’re using it to manipulate and play games” crowd. This includes using unsafe sex as a manipulative tool with the person you’re currently in a relationship with. If a partner is hoping to somehow knock up/get knocked up, the fact that they’re trying to make a baby as a manipulative tool makes them a slut and asshat of the highest order.
Numbers don’t really matter as long as you’re safe and honest with each other. However, I would like to make an exception for my brother in law who’s stationed in South Dakota: at 100+, and not remembering most of their names, he gets a special Slut Gold Star.
God protected me from sluttiness with a plain face and a fat ass.
i wouldn’t put it in numbers, really – as long as the sex goes hand in hand with emotional involvement neither of the participants can be sluts. If on the other hand they use their partner as a convenient means to jerk off… they could be sluts who’ve only ever had 1 partner.