I interview Sherry Thomas, Erin Satie, and Emma Barry, who – along with Meredith Duran and J.A. Rock – are the authors of five different novellas in the anthology, Sight Unseen. Released on June 6, each novella is anonymous, as in, you don’t know which author wrote which story. The authorship will be revealed on September 2017, so if you’re curious and want to guess, you can purchase this anthology at all major retailers.
Each was invited to “write something that scared them – a sub-genre they’d never written in before, characters or tropes that were over the top or underused, or a story they were told would not sell.” That freedom and the anonymity of writing without their names created a unique experience for each writer. This is a bit of a tricky interview, because I can’t ask questions about the stories themselves, or about anything that might reveal who wrote what. Our conversation covers branding, marketing, how they each approached the project, and what they learned through the experience. And of course, we talk about what they’re reading.
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This podcast is brought to you by Need You Now by Nicole Helm.
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Transcript
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Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, June 16, 2017
[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 251 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me today are Sherry Thomas, Erin Satie, and Emma Barry. They are, along with Meredith Duran and J. A. Rock, who could not join us during the recording, the authors of five different novellas in an anthology called Sight Unseen.
Sight Unseen was released on June 6th, and each novella inside is anonymous, as in you don’t know which author wrote which story. Now, the authorship is going to be revealed in September, so if you’re curious and you want to guess and you want to get in on the game, you can purchase this anthology at all major retailers. Each author was invited to “write something that scared them, a subgenre they’d never written in before, characters or tropes that were over the top or underused, or a story they were told would not sell.” That freedom and the anonymity of writing without their names created a unique experience for each of them.
This is, of course, a bit of a tricky interview because I can’t ask questions about the stories or about characters or about the plot or anything that might reveal who writ, who wrote what. So our conversation covers the idea of branding and author names, marketing, how they each approached the project, and what they learned through the experience. And of course we talk about what they’re reading.
This podcast is brought to you by Need You Now by Nicole Helm. Perfect for fans of Jill Shalvis and Susan Mallery, hot romance abounds in this first of the Mile High Romance series featuring the lives and loves of the hunky, flannel-clad Evans brothers and their best friend Sam Goodall as they lead Mile High Adventures, an outdoor guide company in the majestic Rocky Mountains. With this series, Nicole Helm is taking the term lumbersexual to a whole new level. At a time when clean-cut billionaires and businessmen reign supreme in contemporary romance, Need You Now stands out for the hero’s willingness to get down and dirty. Need You Now pairs the hunky outdoorsman owner of Mile High Adventures with a hotshot PR rep who is decidedly anti-outdoors. Opposites attract, and Need You Now by Nicole Helm is ideal for readers who love sparks of attraction, humor, and down-to-earth charm. Need You Now is available now wherever books are sold and on kensingtonbooks.com.
Thank you to Kensington for sponsoring this month, and also thank you to all of our Patreon supporters. If you would like to have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches, you will find ways to support the podcast by making monthly pledges beginning with one dollar a month, and each one makes a massive difference in supporting the show and helping me keep it going with more gooder equipment and sound quality.
I also want to tell you about our iTunes page at iTunes.com/DBSA, where you can find the most recent episodes and some of the books that we’ve spoken about.
And of course, all the books that we talk about in this and every episode are at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. I will have information at the end of the podcast as to who this is. Thank you as always to Sassy Outwater for the excellent tunage.
I also want to thank you if you have reviewed or liked or subscribed or shared the podcast. I am hearing from so many new listeners, and I think that that is all thanks to you for reviewing the show, which helps feed it into algorithms for telling people about it and for subscribing, which helps it become more discoverable in different podcast apps. Thank you for doing that! You are most awesome.
Now if you’re curious about the Sight Unseen anthology, before we start the interview, I thought I would share a little bit about the different stories. One is paranormal, there’s a fantasy, there’s a contemporary, there’s one that’s an ex-rocker, ex-cult-member? There’s all sorts of different stories, so I thought I would read you one of the descriptions:
“Lost That Feeling” – and again, we don’t know who wrote which, but it’s one of those five authors – Alma knew who she was, once – that is, before she erased her memory with a spell. Some, like the guards at the prison in which she’s held, say that she was a thief, a murderer. Others say that she was a hero. Like Driss, the man who rescues her. He claims to be a friend. He’s certainly handsome. And charming. In a word: perfect. That’s the problem. If he’s perfect and she’s a hero, how did she end up in prison with a seven-year hole in her memory to begin with?
So somebody is probably making grabby hands, right? Okay. And this is the description of “Free”:
Brad White would be an ordinary accountant with an unrequited crush except for two things: he works for a criminal motorcycle club, and he’s in love with the club president’s daughter. When she discovers the truth about the family business, Brad has to move beyond ordinary and put his life on the line to keep her safe. Wren Masters, unlike everyone else in her graduating class, chose to stay in Montana because she loves it. But when she finds out her father’s club is running drugs, her family and her world crumble. She and Brad risk everything to uncover the truth…and begin a scorching affair.
Are you curious? I hope so. It’s now time to start the interview. We’re going to begin with Sherry Thomas. On with the podcast.
[music]
Sherry Thomas: I’m Sherry Thomas, and I, it’s been my goal to write everything I enjoy reading, so, so far I’ve written, let’s see, historical and contemporary romance and erotic romance, YA fantasy, and historical mystery, so with this new anthology, Sight Unseen, I’m going to add a new subgenre to my repertoire, and I’m very excited about that!
Sarah: That is very cool. All right. Emma, can you introduce yourself? And if you want to just reveal who you, what you wrote, I mean, that’s totally fine.
Emma Barry: [Laughs] Of course, sorry. I, I got confused over the order. So, my name is Emma Barry, and I’ve written contemporary romances that are about political staffers, and then I write a historical series with my friend Genevieve Turner, which is set during the space race in the 1960s.
Sarah: And that’s, that’s a, that’s a period that does not get a lot of coverage, generally, in, in romance. That’s very cool! So –
Emma: Yeah, there’s, like, no mid-century romance. It’s very sad. [Laughs]
Sarah: I, I have this theory that most genre names are far too broad and encompassing. Like, if I say contemporary romance, I could be talking about Debbie Macomber, and you could be talking about Emma Holly, and those are two totally different things?
Emma: Yeah.
Sarah: Like, way different things. So, historical is the same; like, twentieth-century, mid-century, Regency? Like, we need more specific genre names because, you’re right, there should totally be mid-century – I happen to love the World War I, World War II romances that are showing up? And the ‘60s –
Emma: Yeah, and the 1920s ones, yeah!
Sarah: Oh, heck, yes! Because everyone thinks that they invested sex, right?
Emma: Oh, yeah.
[Laughter]
Sarah: People in the ‘20s, they were doing some stuff!
Erin Satie: Well, people of every time are doing some stuff.
Sarah: Right? Totally! Erin, can you introduce yourself too?
Erin: I’m Erin Satie. I write historical romances, mostly set in the early Victorian period, though I’m moving a whole decade forward to 1850 for my next series, which –
Sherry: Oh, my God!
Erin: – it’s been a bigger endeavor than it sounds like. Uh-huh. Ten years.
Sherry: You’re moving, you’re moving suddenly to High Victorian!
Sarah: So, I have to apologize: Erin, I have been pronouncing your name wrong for, like, three years, so I’m sorry. [Laughs] I thought it was Sa-tee-ay.
Erin: Part of the reason why I picked it is because no matter how you pronounce it, it still sounds good, so that was, that was part of my theory.
Sarah: You know, that’s actually a very strong theory.
Erin: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: Well done!
Erin: Enjoy! Pronounce it however you think sounds best. Great.
Sarah: Oh, oh, I like this plan.
Sherry: Hey, I once had a, a blogger tell me she thought my name was really charming, and then it turned out she thought my name was Stella Thomas.
[Laughter]
Sarah: So if you ever need a pen name, you have got one!
Sherry: I’ve got one.
[Laughter]
Sarah: That’s awesome!
Erin: It would be almost as convincing as a trench coat or a pair of glasses.
Sarah: Oh, right! Or, or, like, you put on, like, a fake mustache, and suddenly no one recognizes you.
[Laughter]
Erin: Yeah.
Sarah: So, I love that we’ve already started talking about the genres that you write in, ‘cause there’s a lot, and I am completely fascinated by this project. And I’ll, I’ll explain a little bit when I do the intro for the, for the episode, but could, could you guys describe the anthology from how you see it as authors?
Emma: Well, one of the things that’s interesting to me about it is the way that as writers, from the moment you start publishing work, you sort of got pigeonholed, unless you’re Sherry and you write everything?
Sherry: [Laughs]
Emma: Almost everyone else, you got, you start writing a thing, and that fits in with the pen name you pick, and it fits in with how you brand your website, and it, it fits in with how you talk about your work in relation to the other, your other books, and it happens really fast. I mean, by the, your second or third book, you have a niche, right? And it’s really hard to break out of that for most people, and so what was cool about this project was not only the an-, anonymity of it and the sort of the guessing game of it, but as a writer, to be able to do something that I didn’t have to worry about how I was going to market it and how it existed relative to my other books was just a really cool kind of freedom, one that I hadn’t had since before I was published.
Sarah: And, like, you said, your author name very quickly becomes your brand –
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and it’s, it – I mean, I was trying to think while you were speaking. There are not that many authors who have really branched out solidly into different genres with the same name. They’re always sort of overlap and related in, in –
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – more recently. Like, the only one I can think of who really went, like, very, very categorized under different names is Nora Roberts, ‘cause you have the para-Noras –
Emma: Yeah.
Sarah: – and then you have the contemporary Noras, and then you have the suspense Noras, and once you figure out which is which, you know which ones you like, but it must be very challenging to write while thinking, does this fit with my brand?
Emma: Yeah, abso-
Sherry: Only if you’re worried about your brand.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Sherry’s like, no shits given about my brand! You’re, I’m going to write what I want, and you’re going to like it!
Emma: [Laughs]
Sarah: Sherry, was this particularly challenging? Because you’ve just made a big shift into a different genre, and I was reading in some of the press materials for Sight Unseen that you were really excited to return to romance.
Sherry: Oh, yeah! I, the, the major, the major appeal this gave me was deadlines, because I, I don’t know what I’ve said to you personally or that’s, there are things I would do for deadlines that I would not do for love or money.
[Laughter]
Sherry: So, so as somebody who’s – actually, how Judith pitched this, how pitched to me – I don’t know whether that’s how she pitched to you guys also – she asked, basically, is there anything that I’m afraid to write? And my answer is, the only thing I’m afraid to write is horror, and that’s because I’m afraid to read it! So that –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sherry: – it’s, it’s not like, you know, I’m blocked from writing it. I just don’t know enough about the genre to write it. Nothing, I’m not afraid to write anything else, but what happens is, you have a lot of these side projects sitting on your hard drive, and, and you have projects that pay and projects that are speculative.
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Sherry: And being a professional writer, you always go with what pays first.
Sarah: Obviously!
Sherry: Obviously, because you still want to eat, and so then it becomes a problem of time allocation. How much time do you want to allocate to a project that doesn’t have, you know, either a ton of monetary prospects or, or anybody waiting on the other side?
Emma: Yeah.
Sherry: So, just by Judith coming and basically asking, have you got anything strange?
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sherry: Kind of like, oh, yes, I’ve got something weird! [Laughs] Not too weird; it’s just little bit, you know, off kilter, which I think a lot of stuff I write is slightly off kilter. It’s just that they are, like, they may be off kilter, but they fit into some broader category. So, so I was like, yeah, this, this, this, I, I do have something that I’ve been working on. It’s got eighty, eight thousand words, and I think it’s going to be a novella about 30K. If you want it, then I’ll start working on it. So what this project did for me is it gave me a deadline, and it’s not difficult at all! I mean, no more difficult than writing anything else. The difficulty is intrinsic in telling the story well. It’s not, yeah, brand; what’s that? [Laughs]
Sarah: For you, the structural elements are what focuses you, and then the deadline and the expectation of someone else waiting on it –
Sherry: Yeah, exactly.
Sarah: – is what gives you motivation to get to work.
Sherry: Exactly, yeah.
Sarah: That makes total sense to me, because if I want to get something done, I have to give myself a deadline, and I have decided that my calendar is my authority. If it’s on a calendar, it gets done. If it needs to get done, it goes in the calendar, and if it’s on the calendar then, you know, it, the expectation is there, and I have to finish it. It’s a lot harder when you know that that expectation is an actual other person –
Sherry: Yes, yes.
Sarah: – who, who’s like, hello! Erin, what about you? How did, how, how – excuse me! – how did you first hear about this project, and how did, how, how were you approached?
Erin: I think that Emma mentioned it on Twitter, and I was so excited by the idea that later she must have brought it up as a possibility, because I just thought the concept was amazing. I thought it would be really fun to read the book and, and do the guessing. When I was picking what to write, it was more just something like what Sherry said: if you’re looking, if you want to write something totally, you have no idea if people are going to like it if we’re not going to like it, if you want to have, like, an, an excuse or, like, an opening, somebody’s going to open a door for you and be like, go ahead! Do this thing that you’ve wanted to do for a while but haven’t been able to justify.
Sarah: And it’s, the fact that you’re supposed to guess the different writers means that you can do pretty much whatever you think the story needs, because it’s almost like writing, writing anonymously.
Erin: Yes.
Sarah: Well, it is writing anonymously.
Emma: I think that –
Erin: Well, for the moment, at least.
Emma: – the further we go from our –
Sherry: But, but only for three months.
Erin: Yeah.
Emma: – from our brand, the more likely we are to be guessed wrong, so to that extent, the anonymous nature and the fact that we’re all different they coincide nicely, I think?
Sarah: Mm-hmm. And you have the option to just sort of explore whatever it is that you’re writing. I’m wondering, is this sort of like the, the, the way, the catnip for writers? We want you to write something that scares you, that you haven’t, that you haven’t been working on. You can write whatever you want. Like, is this – [laughs] – is this writer catnip?
Emma: I think there’re going to be readers who love the concept and enjoy the game, and then I think there are going to be readers who are like, no, I just want to read the Sherry Thomas story; tell me which one is the Sherry Thomas story. It’s, I think –
Sherry: [Laughs]
Emma: – it’s going to really depend on, on, on that, and again, it, the pieces are also strange for us. Like, it’s, it’s not the things we normally write, and I, there are definitely, you know, there are people who just like the Nora contemporaries and don’t like the Nora paranormals, as you said, Sarah, and so I think it also, that, that, that question is, is raised, but I think it also raises the question, why do we enjoy books? And like, for, if you have an otter, auto-buy author, what is it about that voice or about that world that the author writes in that’s compelling to you? And if you don’t know who wrote what, can you make sense out of it? And so I think it also raises these kinds of existential questions about why we read and what we like and just kind of process questions when you don’t know when you’re kind of dropped into these strange stories without a map to tell you what it means, you know?
Sarah: Totally! Sherry?
Sherry: Oh, I was just going to say, I love her use of existential. I never know how to use that correctly in a sentence.
[Laughter]
Sherry: Actually, even if it’s used incorrectly, I can’t tell! I just love that it’s used at all!
Sarah: Well, it occurs to me that this project for you is almost like the, the wrapped-up anonymous books that libraries and bookstores will, will put out, where they wrap a book inside brown paper and give you just the genre and the conflict and not, don’t tell you who or what it is, only in this case is, when you open it up you find out what the book is and what the author is. Here, you remain without, without that knowledge until, is it September that your names are going to be rel-, revealed?
Emma: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.
Erin: Yeah, I think so.
Sarah: So, so you got to read each others’ stories, right?
Erin: Yes.
Sherry: Yes.
Sarah: Okay. So, Erin, I, I’m trying very hard here to concoct questions that don’t invite you to answer with specifics about your story, ‘cause I really don’t want you to, to give it away, as much as I joke about it, so with the, with the stories that you read, when you were looking at the stories, could you, did, did you know who wrote what? And if you, and, and if you didn’t know, could you tell who wrote what?
Erin: So, that’s the funny part: I had a really long discussion with Emma in particular about this, because of, I did know. We all had exchanged summaries early on, so I knew who had written which one. However, I kept thinking that I could tell. Like, I kept thinking, like, oh, there’s, like, the definitive clue that answers the puzzle for anybody who could see it, and I’m, I’m pretty sure that that’s just because I knew. Like, I’m pretty sure that I, I was making up my own cleverness in figuring it out, so. But if your hindsight –
Sarah: So you knew –
Erin: – is 20/20, it’s obvious.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Oh, of course, of course. Sherry, what about you? When you were reading the different stories, what struck you?
Sherry: I was thinking that, I remember reading Meredith’s story, and I remember, like, if I squinted sideways really hard, I can see it in the way she describes, in, in the use, in her use of language, but only if I was squinting really hard, and knowing that it was her.
Sarah: So the knowledge of the author name helped you put together the writing.
Sherry: A little, because I knew –
Sarah: But without it, you –
Sherry: – I, I knew which, which piece she was writing already –
Sarah: Of course.
Sherry: – going in. Yeah, but if I didn’t know, then really, it – so, this, this is, this is kind of like, this is kind of like the, the, the literary version of, you know, the, the romance trope that, it’s basically the Cinderella trope, right?
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Erin: Oh, yeah.
Sherry: You don’t recognize her unless she’s got a big, big dress on?
Erin: And, and follow the glass slipper and, like, oh, yeah.
Sherry: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s true! It’s true! You cannot recognize them without the big, poofy ball gown of their author name. Yeah.
Sarah: I’ve never heard author names compared to ball gowns, but you are totally right about that.
Sherry: [Laughs]
Sarah: You are totally right. So you’re disguising the identity, and you’re, you’re also each writing something that is outside of, outside of what you normally write. Is that correct?
Sherry: Right, yeah.
Emma or Erin: Yes.
Sherry: And it turns out to be amazingly easy to, you know, take off that ball gown and be basically anonymous.
Sarah: I just did a, a podcast interview with Meg Tilly, the actress, who writes as Sara Flynn, and she was talking about how she could not conceive of possibly publishing her, her romance, her romantic suspense until she picked a pen name and no one knew that it was Meg Tilly, and she said, once Meg Tilly was out of the way, I was free to go. It was great! I’m curious for you, and I, and I’m really trying to concoct questions that don’t, like, invite you to give away anything, although I, I imagine that you’re much more skilled at not giving this away than I am, ‘cause you’ve been working on this for a while. What about the stories that you were writing were, were the most enjoyable and fun parts of it? Is there anything that you can talk about in the story that you wrote that you really enjoy and are excited about? Or is that just too much detail?
Erin: For me, there was a palate-cleanser aspect to it, you know, where it, it makes the next course of whatever you’re planning to write that much more enjoyable because you have the chance to sort of, like, clear it out, like, do something totally different, and, like, it’s, it’s very refreshing sort of just by its nature, I would say?
Sarah: [Laughs] This is a hard question to answer; I apologize. Sherry, what about you?
Sherry: My favorite part was actually writing the romance, because it’s been a couple years since I wrote a flat-out romance, and, and I, yeah, obviously what – wait, was that Erin who just said about the palate-cleanser aspect?
Erin: Yes, that was me.
Sherry: Or, or was it Emma?
Sarah: No, it was Erin.
Sherry: Okay. So, yeah, the palate-cleanser aspect is always there, but, yeah, I, I haven’t written a flat-out romance in a couple years, and this just reminded me how much I love writing romance! And now I’m even thinking, hmm, maybe I should, like, seriously, seriously start working on a historical romance, but then it’s, it’s always the, the, the plot aspects that I’m going like, hmm. Like, your last, your last original romance that you didn’t pull out from under your bed had a, had an amnesia plot, so, have you got a better plot than that?
[Laughter]
Sherry: At the moment, it’s still no, so I have the characters, I have the setup, I have the internal conflict, but I’m in search of a plot. So now I’m getting, like, actually really excited about writing another romance.
Sarah: I will say that, for me, my favorite romances are ones wherein the internal conflict is most of the plot, but I’m incredibly selfish when it comes to the things that I like in my reading, so I cannot, obviously, be so presumptuous to tell you what to write, but I will say internal conflict makes for a great read, in my opinion. Emma, I –
Sherry: Internal conflict makes for a great read, but a book with only internal conflict cannot hold up structurally very well. That’s the only problem.
Sarah: You make a good point. Well, I mean, I confess, like any other person, I looked at the descriptions of the different stories and was immediately thinking, okay, which is which? Which one is which? I can, I bet – no, that’s not it. Were there any tropes or conflicts or things that you really wanted to include in your story and then thought, oh, no, no, no, no, that’s way too close, that’s way too close to what I, to what I usually write. Were there any things where you steered yourself away?
Erin: I think in retrospect, you probably could backward engineer some of the stories through some of the tropes. I mean, for me, I’d say the answer is no.
Sarah: So you, you did, you did not steer away from anything that you might, you might think was too identifiable.
Erin: No, no, and I can think on elements that would be, that would be real giveaways if, if somebody knew what to look for, but who knows if they will.
Sarah: Yes, but you, you know your tricks.
Erin: Exactly.
Sarah: So there’s no character who’s brewing ink in your story.
Erin: Alas, no.
Sherry: [Laughs]
Erin: Which is a shame, because there’s never enough ink or pen love in the world.
Sarah: Right? There needs to be more ink and pen porn. Sherry, what about you? Was there anything that you were like, nope, nope, can’t do that?
Sherry: Oh, no, no, no. [Laughs] I think I’ve established that particular side of my personality, so –
Sarah: Yeah, you generally just have no shits to give. Like, nope, going to do what I want.
Sherry: [Laughs]
Sarah: Which is pretty awesome.
Sherry: It’s, it’s probably obliviousness rather than anything else? But it ends up being – yeah.
[Laughter]
Sarah: So with this project, are you inspired to do another one like this? If there’s another one, would you do this again?
Sherry: I imagine if, I think if it does well, Judith would definitely want to do it again, but she’ll probably want to branch out with different authors, but if I’m invited back, you betcha! Yeah! This was so much fun!
Emma: It’s a pretty neat project. I also just really like the, the fact that she’s trying something new, and I really like the, I like the experimentation involved. I like the play, so, really neat.
Sherry: Yeah, like what Emma said at the very beginning, it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen that people actually come to you and ask for something different. They usually want the same. Different but the same.
Emma and Erin: Yeah.
Sarah: That’s very true. Consistency is usually what people are looking for in terms of what to sell or buy next.
Sherry: Right. And you can’t blame them, can’t blame them. Like –
Sarah: Mm-mm.
Sherry: – you know, it’s, it’s what we go out to restaurants for, and it’s, you know, it’s, well, you know what you like, and I know what I like, and, and also kudos to readers – I’m really grateful to any readers who are willing to take this on, because, because this kind of mystery meat stuff is, like, not, not typically something that I would volunteer for immediately.
[Laughter]
Erin: I know when I first announced it to my readers, I sent out a newsletter that’s half apology, like, I’m really sorry, but this was just so much fun I couldn’t resist, so, hope you’ll tolerate it.
Sarah: So I, I wrote something, but I’m not telling you what I, what it is.
Erin: Yeah.
Sarah: It’s one of these. I’ve narrowed it down. When it comes time to reveal who wrote what, do you guys have any plans for how you’re going to, how you’re going to let everyone know who wrote what? [Laughs] Is there going to be a sweepstakes? If you guessed correctly –
Sherry: [Laughs]
Sarah: – you win a trip to the Regency!
Sherry: What a great idea!
Erin: I want to, for sure.
Sherry: What a good idea. Yeah, I, I think, I think, I want to do, I want them to do kind of like a, a, a miniature March Madness thing in that they actually put out their guesses, all of them.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sherry: You know, I think the stories would –
Sarah: And see who can tell.
Sherry: – and who and, no, and, no, and, and see who comes closest, who gets everybody right. Yeah, and maybe, maybe have, like, a, a drawing of those who got everything right.
Sarah: And it’s so interesting to me, because this project couldn’t happen without the Internet, I mean, without the connectivity between authors and readers, because how else would you collect all this information? How else would you spread the word that this is, you know, sort of a, an adventure project where you get the story but you don’t know who wrote it? You just know these are the names included. This can’t really work without the, the connectivity of being able to say, okay, here’s what we’re doing. Give it a try, and then we want you to guess and let us know who it is.
Emma: Can you guys hear me now?
Erin: I can.
Sarah: I can totally hear you! Welcome back!
Sherry: Yes! Yes!
Sarah: Yay!
Emma: All I had to do was unplug my microphone and plug it back in. Isn’t it amazing when that works? Well, I wanted to say, like, there is actually some precedents for this that are, like, nineteenth century? Like –
Sarah: No way! Tell me all about them!
Emma: Yes! So, like, in, so, Louisa May Alcott’s publisher, Roberts Brothers, put together a series in the 1870s and 1880s called the No Name Series, which were books published without names on them, and she wrote a novel for that series called A Modern Mephistopheles which was really, really different and was a kind of palate cleanser from Little Women. And then there was one that Erin and I were talking about on Twitter a few weeks ago that I heard about on NPR because I’m such a dork, but there was a, a concert in Paris in about 1910 where the works were presented anonymously. So there have been some precedents for this, but I agree with you that the Internet definitely makes it more fun and adds to that, like, guessing game. But I think there have been some of these kind of what-can-you-do-when-you-don’t-have-to-tell-people-it’s-yours examples in the past.
Sarah: That is fascinating! I had no idea!
Sherry: Yeah, I believe Judith did mention those when she pitched the project to me, although I have to say, in this day and age, if it didn’t happen in the last ten years, given how short our memories are, it might as well never happened at all!
[Laughter]
Sarah: Oh, if it didn’t happen this morning it might have not as well happened.
Sherry: Right.
Sarah: Well, like I said when we were, when we started, you know, we, we all think we invented everything. I stand completely corrected. That’s so cool! It’s, it’s also, it’s also illustrative that, you know, as a, as a writer, when you’re building your career, you work so hard to make your name a known entity, and, and with projects like these, you’re taking the thing that you’ve built and the, the name that you have completely out of the equation at all. So you, it, you’re erasing a part of what you, part of what you’re supposed to be building, you take out for a little while. It’s, it’s very clever!
Erin: I like the ephemeral nature of the collection. Like, it’s, the, there’s something in the moment when nobody knows, and that’s really neat. Like, it, it happens, it starts, and it ends, and, like, a year from now, nobody ever gets to be guessing. Like, the, the guessing thing actually is –
Sarah: Yes.
Erin: – completely limited in time, which is strange with books, which are more permanent in nature.
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Yes. I remember, I remember learning, and I want to say it was from Bill Bryson, but that the, the idea of the MP3 was partially based on watching Star Trek and watching Data have all of his music with him all the time, and how do you compress music into a tiny, tiny file that you can always have? Whereas a few hundred years ago, unless you heard music as it was being played, there was no way to preserve it, so –
Emma: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – hearing music only happened when it was being played. You could look at the, you could look at a piece of music on paper, but that wasn’t the same as hearing it, and only, it only existed while it was being played; it has this ephemeral quality. And you’re right; the experience of no one knowing is a very limited experience. That makes it, that makes it much more alluring, in a way. Like, okay, I have to be part of this game; I want to be part of this challenge; I want to figure this out. Seriously, there needs to be, like, a sweepstakes where someone gets to go, like, back or forward in time or something if they win.
[Laughter]
Sherry: Yeah, so once I’m done with this podcast I’m, like, putting the final touches on our time machine.
Emma: [Laughs]
Sarah: Fabulous! I’m sure it’s very well appointed. Ink, pens, you know, all the good things.
Sherry: With a duke inside, yeah, already.
Sarah: You’ve got to have a duke! We’re, look, we’re, we’re approaching a duke shortage. We’re running out.
[Laughter]
Sarah: So, now that you’ve done this project, are there ideas that are starting to percolate in your brain where you’re like, oh, well, that’s a new direction? Has this, has this grown in your imagination in any strange ways?
Emma: Well, in some ways I did the project ‘cause the, half the thing was sitting on my hard drive, and I didn’t know what to do with it, but I also didn’t want to write a whole series in this world, so I was like – [laughs] – but now that it’s done, I don’t know. I guess it will depend on how people react to it, and, and, like, once I get to talk about it, maybe that will make me want to write more in the world, write more sequels, or just write more stuff that’s strange, that’s weird, that’s a risk.
Sarah: Which makes it, which makes it exciting! It’s like, okay, this is, this is not familiar to me. This is –
Emma: Yeah, and –
Sarah: – this is new muscle development.
Emma: – and maybe it also will show that, like, my brand is bigger than I think it is and that I can take more risks and that people will still read them and like them or just at least, like, go on that journey with me. So maybe, maybe it’s a, a growth experience. Like, maybe my voice is bigger than I thought it was.
Sarah: That’s a very cool way to think about it. Erin, has this stretched your imagination in, in, in new ways at all?
Erin: Yeah. I would really love to keep writing, but, like Emma, I want to see a little bit how, how the response is. But I had a fantastic idea, or at least it’s fantastic to me, so, so if I get enough encouragement, I’ll probably run with it.
Emma: I have heard the idea, and it is fantastic.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Sherry, what about you?
Sherry: I don’t know. I mean, it’s not as if I wasn’t, it’s not as if I’d been limiting myself to any one thing! [Laughs]
Sarah: No, no, no.
Sherry: Yeah, this, this feels like a standalone project, just because of its nature. Some stories, I think, are standalone. But, but I’m definitely working on getting myself other deadlines, so, you know, so – and, and I’ve always felt a kind of faith in the subconscious in that the story sometimes tells itself. Not, that doesn’t mean it’s easy. It doesn’t mean I sit down and anything pours out. It just means after much toil and blood and sweat, somehow it come together, it comes together. And this is one of those stories that I sat down with a premise and a plot, but I had no idea where it was all going to end up, and I kind of like where it ended up. So it just kind of reaffirmed my faith in the storytelling processing in a very nice manner.
Sarah: It sounds like all of you very much enjoyed writing and that you enjoy writing generally. Was this project different from other things you’ve worked on?
Sherry: Oh, it’s definitely different! But as I always say, it’s, it’s always the, the storytelling part that I find most challenging.
Sarah: Right.
Sherry: Everything else is kind of peripheral.
Emma: It was different because we, I, we couldn’t talk about it while we were working on it. I mean, I think, I often will sort of tease things on Twitter or Facebook; you know, I’m working on this, and this is what’s hard, or here’s, like, a song I was listening to while I was writing today, and I really couldn’t do any of that! You know, like, the Pinterest board for the book has to be, like, secret, right? And so, like, I think, the, that public aspect of my writing, I didn’t have that part, and I guess I didn’t realize how big a part of my writing it was. To be able to, to be working on this thing and not to be able to talk about it at all was kind of discombobulating.
Sherry: Ah-ha!
Sarah: I hadn’t even thought about that part, about how, you’re right, how much of the process is part of the, almost like the process is part of marketing. This is what I’m working on –
Emma: It’s –
Sarah: – this is what I’m doing.
Emma: It definitely is, is part of marketing, and, and, and that whole aspect is gone, and then also, like, how do you market it? Like, Erin and I were talking about writing blog posts for this, for the launch of the book and being like, how do you write a blog post to promote a book when you can’t say anything about your story? It’s so, it’s just very strange; in a good way, but strange.
Sarah: Oh, it was really hard to develop questions for this interview. Like –
[Laughter]
Sarah: – not that. Oh, I can’t ask that. Can’t ask about character; can’t ask about conflict. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Like, I had to really think about how to ask you talk about something you can’t talk about. It’s like, it’s like we’re circling around a very, very large pit, and we can’t fall in. Sherry?
Erin: Nor can we talk about other people’s –
Emma: Wait –
Erin: – stories without a leaving a hole in the middle where our own is? ‘Cause it’s really easy to be like, I loved, like, Emma’s story and Sherry’s story. I’d love to tell you why, but I can’t even do that!
Sarah: Can’t do that!
[Laughter]
Erin: And –
Sarah: Sherry, what did you want to add?
Sherry: I, I just realized I haven’t lived because the first time anybody sees my story is usually when I upload an excerpt on my website. I’ve never, I’ve never done a Pinterest board, never, never shared tidbits as I was writing. I’m, maybe I should rethink my life!
[Laughter]
Erin: No, not at all! It’s probably better without it!
Sarah: I, I, I have found that whenever I see people tweeting, I’m writing; this is what I’m working on, my, my instinct is, oh, my gosh! Why are you telling people? You can’t tell people if you’re writing about something! ‘Cause I can’t share anything I’m working on until it’s done. I’m just way too reticent, and my instinct is to be like, no, don’t tell anyone! Don’t tell anyone! Bad Idea Jeans. So, I, I’m like, wow! You know, I, it never would have occurred to me to talk about what I’m writing while I’m writing, but then if you do that and suddenly you can’t, it’s like, oh, well, I’m alone in this, in this pit of silence! Ugh! What do I do? You can only really talk to each other!
Emma: Yes, and Erin and I, the week that we got the, the advance reader copies, we were exchanging all these direct messages about them, ‘cause we couldn’t talk with anyone else about the stories.
Erin: [Laughs]
Emma: It was a lot of fun.
Sarah: We are spies in this project.
[Laughter]
Erin: It’s the squeeing! Like, I was so excited, I can’t, I don’t know, I could only tell her!
Emma: Yeah.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Isolated squee is not as, is not always as satisfying.
Erin: Definitely not.
Sarah: Are you guys, are you all excited to share this? Are you excited for people to discover the other stories in the, in the anthology? ‘Cause it sounds like you all like each others’ stories as well.
Sherry: Oh, yes! We are completely excited for, for the reading experience. I mean, it may be, it may be wacky and discombobulating because I really think for a reader coming in, even if reader familiar with our works, there’s just not enough, not enough landmarks to, like, truly orient themselves, so they really are going into it blind, and there really is a mystery meat treat.
[Laughter]
Sherry: But it should be – yeah, but it should be very interesting!
Sarah: Is there anything that you would like readers or listeners to know about the anthology that I haven’t asked about? Like I said, it was very challenging to write questions for this interview because I, obviously, I can’t ask you, well, tell me about your story! Is there anything that you would like listeners to know?
Emma: The pieces are really, really different, and so I would say, like, it may not, I don’t think it’s an anthology you can sit down and read, like, from front to back in one sitting. I think that would be –
Sarah: Oh, that’s interesting!
Emma: I think it would make you feel confused, just ‘cause they’re really different. Like, I was comparing it when I was talking to someone the other day to the, the Gambled Away anthology which came out about a year ago, and those were all those historical romances that had gambling themes, and even though they were set in really different places and the writing was really different, there was, like, enough continuity that I felt like it held together, like, as a cohesive collection, and this is, like, kind of the opposite of that, and so I do think people may want to take, like, a hard reset between each story. Like, read one, read the next one the next day. Like, I think if you sit down and try to read it from cover to cover, you may just be like, that was like a grab bag of fantastic romances, but, like, genre-wise, they’re so different. So I would say, like, maybe, like, pause and have a tea between, like, all five of them, ‘cause they’re really, really, voice-wise, genre-wise, really different.
Erin: Whereas I’m saying –
Sarah: That is very different.
Sherry: Yeah, it would be like eating, it would be like eating steak and doughnut at the same time if you keep reading them, like, one after another.
[Laughter]
Sarah: That is the, that is one of the best reading analogies I’ve heard in a while. It would be like eating steak and a doughnut.
Erin: Yes, I mean –
Sherry: Yeah, exactly! It’s like, steak is wonderful, doughnuts are wonderful, but, you know, like, you know, at least, at least have, like, a ten-minute break between them. [Laughs]
Emma: Yeah.
Erin: Although I, I feel the opposite. It, for me, this is, like, as close as I’ve come to a single book that imitates my actual way of reading, because I really like, like, a ton of variety. Like, I’ll read one thing and then immediately switch to whatever is opposite, so it’s like, it’s the first time I’ve had – I think maybe that was part of why I like this one so much, because I wasn’t, because they were switching so much, it was, I mean, it was my happy place, personally, very close to what I like to do.
Sarah: That’s very cool! So I always ask – and I, and I warned you in advance about this question – I always ask what you’re reading that you want to recommend? So, aside from this anthology, obviously –
[Laughter]
Sarah: – do you each have a recommendation that you would like to, to share? Or any book that you just want people to know about? It does not have to be a romance; it could be anything you like. Emma, do you want to go first?
Emma: Sure. Well, I guess, like Erin, my, my reading is a little bit eclectic, so at the moment I’m reading – because, ‘cause I’m writing this series; it’s about astronauts – I’m reading Mike Collins’ autobiography, Carrying the Fire, which Genevieve Turner recommended, ‘cause all the astronaut books, all of them wrote books, and most of them are abjectly terrible, but Collins is a really good, he’s actually, like, a really good writer, and he wrote it himself; he didn’t have a ghost writer. And it’s funny and self-deprecating, and most of the astronaut books are, like, serious, and there’s, like, no humor, and they just want to tell you how amazing they are. And they were amazing, but, like, this one is, like, filled with hilarious details like the fact that they got a per diem when they went on missions – it was eight dollars a day, by the way – and so it’s just, like, filled with these kind of funny little, more personal stories. I have a couple of romances I’m reading: Knit One, Girl Two by Shira Glassman, which is great and, like, very funny and adorable, and if you’re looking for, like, like, a mug of hot cocoa in a book, I would highly, highly recommend it.
Sarah: That is seriously cool. I’m writing this down. Erin, do you have a book you want to recommend?
Erin: Yeah, I opened up my Goodreads so I’d be super ready to answer this question. I just finished the Court of Thorns and Roses trilogy, which is not necessarily my usual, but I devoured the whole thing, and it’s a little bit like the Sight Unseen books insofar as the things that make it interesting are so spoilery they’re impossible to discuss. I ended up liking it a lot more than I thought I would. I’m reading right now, here’s a fun one, it’s, I’m reading Team of Rivals, and I’m reading it at the same time as I’m reading An Extraordinary Union by Alyssa Cole, which is actually a really fun pairing, ‘cause one is about, you know, Abraham Lincoln, like, it’s a history book, and then I get a romance novel that has the same setting but a happy ending, which obviously the Abraham Lincoln book won’t, so it goes nicely together.
Sarah: Just a bit. Are you liking An Extraordinary Union?
Erin: I’m liking it a lot. Unlike you, I really like a lot of plot in my romances, and so it’s like there’s tons of stuff going on, so I’m very, very much enjoying it.
Sarah: [Laughs] It’s not that I, that I dislike plot, I’m a fan, but I also adore internal conflict and sometimes feel like that, that part is not as much as I would like. It’s like having a cupcake with a really good filling.
Erin: [Laughs]
Sarah: I like a lot of icing inside and on top with the cake, so if the cake is the plot, I like, I like a good dose of Hostess cream filling in the middle, which sounds super gross now that I’ve said that out loud, and I am going to stop talking.
[Laughter]
Erin: It’s true that plot is not, like, a good substitute for change or internal conflict, and I think a lot of people don’t, or it seems sometimes that people, you know, miss that, but just having a hard time does not mean you’re actually changing, growing, or struggling?
Sarah: Yes, thank you, that is exactly it. That is exactly what I’m, what I was trying to say with my somewhat gross cupcake analogy, yes. Having things happen to you does not necessarily equal growth.
Erin: Yeah.
Sarah: That is definitely true. Thank you! Saved me from expressing myself badly. You should be a writer! Sherry, what about you – is there anything that you’re reading that you want to talk about?
Sherry: Yeah! I was recently on a sci-fi kick, and I heard about Station Eleven, there’s this book called Station Eleven, a long time ago from a writer friend, and, but it was only recently that I got to it, and I really, really enjoy it. It’s, it’s, normally I don’t, I don’t post-apocalyptical, but this one’s done very differently, and it’s, it’s about this, well, part of it is about this traveling Shakespearean troupe, like, post apocalypse. It’s like, that’s something new! And basically their model is survival is not enough, so they go around to those little towns and perform Shakespeare and symphony and, and all that stuff, and, and that is just a whole new different way of looking at life post apocalypse, and it’s, it’s really beautifully written, and it’s about beauty and hope, so that again makes it very different. It’s like the, the, the antithesis of World War Z, but I love them both. And –
Erin: I read Station Eleven a few years ago, and I still think of it. It’s really good.
Sherry: Yeah, it’s really, really beautiful. And I also recently read, listened to, a book called Sous Chef. I love, I love these kind of culinary anthropology kind of books, and Sous Chef is basically about twenty-four hours in the, in the life of an actual sous chef, and it takes you backstage in the kitchen like no other book I’ve read, not even, like, Kitchen Confidential. And –
Sarah: Wow!
Sherry: Yeah!
Sarah: I was going to say, you usually don’t get the sous chef point of view. You usually get the chef point of view.
Sherry: I know! And, and, and it was, it was, it was really well written, and it’s, like, completely make the kitchen come alive, and, and normally I listen to audiobooks while doing other things. This, this I keep finding myself pausing the audiobook because it’s so information-rich that if I, you know, am, go absent-minded for a minute, like getting my car out of the drive, I miss something. So, so I’ve always wanted to write something contemporary with cooking, and I was like, wow, I’m going to buy this book in paper, so that’s become my research volume. But it’s just fascinating reading on its own. And as for romance, I recently discovered Alisha Rai! I know I’m late to the – I’m always late to the discovery, but –
[Laughter]
Sherry: I’ve been really enjoying her!
Sarah: Have you read Hate to Want You?
Sherry: No, not yet. I am, I am doing A Gentleman in the Street right now.
Sarah: That book is seriously kind of hot.
Sherry: I, I like my romances hot. Yeah. [Laughs]
Sarah: Excellent! That was not a warning; that was just a statement of fact.
Sherry: No, no, that, that –
[Laughter]
Sherry: That’s a high five, right?
Erin: Oh, yeah!
Sarah: Oh, yeah. Well, well chosen. Good choice! [Laughs]
Sherry: But, okay, Hate to Want You? Okay, I will put that on my list.
Sarah: That’s the first book in her new series with Avon. It’s about two rival families who had a huge falling out and now hate each other, and of course the children are all going to, you know, hook up, because that’s how that rolls. It never works out in romance novels.
Sherry: Ah. Oh, it’s Romeo and Juliet with sex!
Emma: Hey. [Laughs]
Sarah: And a, and a, and a grocery store chain. They used to co-own a, an upscale grocery chain.
Sherry: Oh! It’s a Whole Foods romance then.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yeah, it’s Whole Foods. It’s, it’s Whole Foods Romeo and Juliet. She, she, her elevator pitch, I think, was Romeo and Juliet meets “Hot Line Bling” without suicide and all that sexism.
Sherry: Hmm!
Sarah: But, but Whole Foods Romeo and Juliet is also a really good elevator pitch, now that I think about it.
[Laughter]
[music]
Sarah: And that is all for this week’s episode. I want to thank Emma and Erin and Sherry for joining me across many time zones to make this interview happen. I will have information about Sight Unseen and the other books that they mentioned in the podcast entry at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
And speaking of podcasts, this one, right here, was brought to you by Need You Now by Nicole Helm. Perfect for fans of Jill Shalvis and Susan Mallery, hot romance abounds in this first of the Mile High Romance series, featuring the lives and loves of the hunky, flannel-clad Evans brothers and their best friend Sam Goodall as they lead Mile High Adventures, an outdoor guide company in the majestic Rocky Mountains. With this series, Nicole Helm is taking the term lumbersexual to a whole new level. At a time when clean-cut billionaires and businessmen reign supreme in contemporary romance, Need You Now stands out for the hero’s willingness to get down and dirty. Need You Now pairs the hunky outdoorsman owner of Mile High Adventures with the hotshot PR rep who is decidedly anti-outdoors. Opposites attract, and Need You Now by Nicole Helm is ideal for readers who love sparks of attraction, humor, and down-to-earth charm. Need You Now is available wherever books are sold and on kensingtonbooks.com, and big thanks to Kensington for sponsoring the show this month.
The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. I am still making my way through the fun that is the two-album set from Caravan Palace. This track is called “Newbop,” and you can find the two-album set, which includes Caravan Palace and Panic, on Amazune, Amazune or iTones. [Laughs] I love when I do that accidentally! Amazune and iTones! Or Amazon and iTunes, whichever you prefer, but that’s where it is, and I will have a link to both in the podcast entry. Wow, I just delight myself!
I want to thank you for listening to the podcast, especially if you have listened this far and listened to me make mistakes. [Laughs] I also want to thank you for subscribing, for reviewing, for telling people about the podcast, and for having a look at our Patreon page at patreon.com/SmartBitches. The community of people who listen and correspond with me about the podcast are lovely, so thank you for being among them, and I really appreciate it.
I will be back next week with more discussion about romance novels and fiction and travel and true crime and all of these other things because I have a lot of fun interviews to edit in the weeks ahead.
On behalf of Sherry Thomas and Emma Barry and Meredith Duran, J. A. Rock, and Erin Satie and everyone here, including Wilbur, who’s clawing at a box while I record – thanks, dude – I want to wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend.
[mellow music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Sight Unseen Sounds amazing. And thanks for the non-fiction rec for Carrying the Fire. I have trouble finding NF that keep me interested and this one sounds amazing!
And thanks Sarah for somehow always magically making these podcasts the exact length of time it takes to mow my lawn every week!!!
The premise of this anthology has got me so intrigued. I’m definitely going to use it to punch my Anthology square on The Ripped Bodice’s summer reading bingo!
I bought this a few days ago and am so excited to check it out this weekend! Can there be a followup podcast once the identities are revealed? I’d love to know if for each author this is a one-off venture or if it pushes them to publish more of X.
@Nancy C great idea about the reading bingo! Sadly I can’t combine it with the “subgenre you’ve never read before” square as this will be my first motorcycle story. I’ll have to strategize which one to use it on…
Thanks for another enjoyable interview!
I adored Station Eleven!
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