Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, October 20, 2023

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 585 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I am Sarah Wendell, and with me is Amanda. And join us: we’re going back in time again! We are going back to May 2014 to take a look at the ads and features inside RT Book Reviews magazine. Side trips include Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta, the strange immortality of stock images on book covers, and the importance of alligator fritters in your marketing budget. There will be visual aids on Smart Bitches in the show notes and on Instagram and Tumblr. We’re going to be everywhere with how much fun this is. We will also be linking to all of the books that we talk about, so never fear; if you’re thinking, I want to read that, well, yeah, we probably do too. We’re going to link to all the books we mention; do not worry.

Hello and thank you to our Patreon community. Hey, folks! If you have supported the show with a monthly pledge of any amount, you are keeping me going; you’re making sure that every episode, including these nice long ones, has a transcript – thank you, garlicknitter! [You’re welcome! – gk] If you would like to join the Patreon community, there are many benefits to doing so in addition to supporting this here show. There is a wonderful Discord; you get to help me develop questions for interviews; and you get full scans, the complete PDF of the Romantic Times magazines that we’re talking about! Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. It would be so wonderful to have you join us.

Support for this episode comes from It’s a Fabulous Life by Kelly Farmer. Make the Yuletide gay with It’s a Fabulous Life. This sapphic It’s a Wonderful Life retelling is filled with holiday cheer, angelic drag queens, adorable rescue dogs, and a little magic. It is a sweet second-chance rom-com that Publishers Weekly calls “A goodie bag of romance tropes…” Bailey George is ready to leave her small town behind on a long-awaited vacation to New York City. When the volunteer who took over the town’s Winter Wonderfest has a medical emergency, Bailey finds herself stuck there again. Staying home seems slightly less terrible when Bailey runs into her high school crush, Maria Hatcher. Maria quickly offers to help with Winter Wonderfest. Her sunny disposition and holiday cheer perk up Bailey’s grinchy feelings about everything. One disaster after another snowballs on the day of the festival, and Bailey’s frustration boils over. Then she meets a fabulous drag queen, Clara Angel, and Bailey declares she wishes she hadn’t been born in this Christmas-obsessed small town. With the magic that Clara possesses, she shows Bailey how wrong she is and that with a little hope and some holiday spirit there is a way to attain all her dreams. It’s a Fabulous Life is perfect for fans of Alison Cochrun and Ashley Herring Blake. Bestselling author Cat Sebastian calls it “Festive, heart-warming, and kind” and Codi Hall says it “Breathes Christmas cheer straight into the reader’s heart…Christmas pop-culture fanatics will fall head over heels.” Treat yourself to the gift of It’s a Fabulous Life, available now from Alcove Press in trade paperback, e-book, and audiobook! And thank you to Kelly Farmer for sponsoring this fabulous episode!

All right, it’s time to go back in time. Are you ready? Buckle your mental seatbelt: we’re going back to 2014 and some absolutely astonishingly cool features and ads. On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: All right, we’re back! It’s time to revisit October 20- – or, excuse me; it is October! – it’s time to revisit May 2014, RT Book Reviews. Read smarter! Did you notice the little tagline at the top there?

Amanda: Oh my God, no!

Sarah: Read smart! You know why? Because it’s yellow text on a white background; that’s why.

Amanda: Oh God.

Sarah: In this episode, we’re each, we have each read through the magazine, and we have flagged any ad or book cover or author feature that we want to talk about. So we’ve got some –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – got some ads; we’ve got some things in the magazine; we’ve got some book covers. Let’s do this.

Now the cover is The Unexpected Duchess by Valerie Bowman, and sometimes, like I said in the last episode, sometimes it’s a book cover, and sometimes it’s the author photo, but my favorite thing about this cover is right under RT Book Reviews it says “THE END IS NIGH FOR SHERRILYN KENYON & BRENDA NOVAK”! [Laughs]

Amanda: I, I kind of love that the cover callouts are all author-based, and it’s like they’re treating these authors as, like, celebrities? As like…

Sarah: Right!

Amanda: …celebrity mag of, like, you know, Jennifer Aniston spotted at the supermarket! Stars are just like us! Whatever.

Sarah: Yeah! The, the, the celebrity names in the sidebar are all authors.

Amanda: Yeah. I thought it was pretty, pretty fun!

Sarah: And our headlining author is Valerie Bowman, whose un-, The Unexpected Duchess gets a four and a half stars Top Pick – spoiler! [Laughs] They put it on the cover!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Now, if you scroll to page 6, I just, I just want to talk a little bit about the –

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: – Editor’s Letter?

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: Okay. So it’s two-thirds of the width of the page, but it’s the full length. But at the top is a picture of a woman named Aimée Thurlo, who passed away in March of 2014, but it doesn’t say that she’s dead, so when I looked at the cover real quick, or the image real quick, I thought, That doesn’t look like Kathryn Falk! Who is that? Like, it doesn’t say that that’s why she’s at the top there? So it was very –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – confusing?

Amanda: Well, like, interestingly enough, in the author’s letter –

Sarah: Oh gosh.

Amanda: – or Editor’s Letter, all of the other authors she mentions in her letter, Kathryn’s letter, are bolded –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – but Aimée’s name, which is mentioned at the very bottom of the letter, is not bolded.

Sarah: No.

Amanda: And I did not read this letter prior to, like, going through and looking at reviews, and so there is – and I’m skipping ahead a little bit – there is an In Memoriam, like, image, graphic on page 84?

Sarah: Yep! There sure is!

Amanda: For Aimée? But it lists no other information besides Aimée’s name and, like, birth year and death year?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So as I was scrolling through these reviews I’m like, Wait, what? Who is this person? And then I, I googled her –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Amanda: – and she wrote a series called Navajo Vampire mysteries.

Sarah: Oh, hell yeah!

Amanda: Minotaur Books is the other little note.

Sarah: Minotaur, thank you. I could not read that.

Amanda: In Memoriam has –

Sarah: Nothing.

Amanda: – the image has no context –

Sarah: None.

Amanda: – on the actual image of, like, why this person is in the book, or in the magazine; like, what they’re known for. I guess if you’re a fan of her writing, like, you would already know, but, like, yeah, I, that was jarring for me when I was – [laughs] – scrolling through. I’m like, what?!

Sarah: Speaking of jarring, this letter is a wild ride before you get to the author part.

Amanda: For sure.

Sarah: So we start off with mentioning of Texas and gardening and what we’re putting in the ground, like microlite and compost and pruning and peach blossoms, and then they’re going to get some loquats and grape- – like, the whole first paragraph is about the garden. Second paragraph? Pig roast. They, they built a whole roasting pit lined with fire bricks, and a chef friend from Houston is preparing everything, including his unique fermented cabbage dish. And then we get to paragraph three.

>> My latest discovery from the longevity world is grounding, so in case you wanted to live forever, this magazine can help you.

It, it – [laughs] – we go from gardening to pig roast to pickled cabbage to grounding and longevity, and by the way, here are all the authors in this issue. It’s wild.

>> My latest discovery from the longevity world…

That just, I just tripped over my own eyeballs when I read that.

Amanda: The longevity world!

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: What does that even mean?

Sarah: All right, so I am going to attempt to add some audio to this episode. If we scroll down to page 8, the cover feature is about Valerie Bowman, and on page 9 it says that she was on a – [laughs] – she was on an episode of Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta! Because she was planning her wedding, and she wanted help, you know, finding the dress. So Valerie Bowman was on Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta, which is not a show I have ever watched. I have never watched this show. I found this episode, and it’s her sister and like a whole – is this normal for Say Yes to the Dress? There’s like ten people there to tell, tell you what you think? There’s a whole crowd –

Amanda: There’s –

Sarah: – of people there.

Amanda: Yeah. Normally it’s not that big. It’s usually like one to four people, ‘cause they sit on like a little couch.

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: It’s not that big. They have, like, the dress consultant and then the bride and usually, yes, there are, like, family members or friends giving opinions. There’s always at least one Negative Nancy in the group that’s like –

Sarah: Yeah, it’s her sister, and her sister is, like, portrayed so terribly! I’m like, Did you invite her to the wedding after this?

Amanda: There’s always one in a group that’s like, That looks bad on you! Yeah, and it’s –

Sarah: Oh my –

Amanda: – par for the course. I’ve seen Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta, and I can picture these dress consultants in my head. I know which ones they are.

Sarah: Okay, I’m going to share this. Can you see my screen?

Amanda: Yep! That’s exactly who I was picturing!

Sarah: All right, I’m going to replay this segment so you can just sort of watch this wild chop-chop-chop editing? So basically she’s come out in a dress, and in the first dress it was very simple, white, wrapped – like a, like a wrap to the, to the side pattern; very flattering – and she kept saying it was just like what one of her characters would wear, and her sister’s like, No! You’re not your character! Go back and change! And so she comes out in this very tight thing with a big tulle puffy thing at the bottom? So there’s Valerie.

>> [music]

>> Announcer: Romance novelist Valerie lives through her characters.

>> Valerie: Lily, I think I wrote her a little bit with myself in mind.

>> Announcer: And thought by dressing like one she had penned a quick ending to her bridal story.

>> Valerie: Oh, it’s just so romantic; it’s perfect!

>> Melanie: Oh, not at all!

>> Lori: Valerie’s the baby of the family? So naturally she’s going to listen to her big sister.

>> Announcer: Sister’s dress is a dropped-waist gown with a sparkling beaded bodice and a full ruffled skirt.

>> Valerie: NO!

>> Robin: No way!

>> Valerie: I think this would get edited out of my book.

>> Robin: Good.

>> Valerie: It’s bling; it’s frou. No.

>> Melanie: I love it! This dress is definitely taking her out of her comfort zone?

>> Valerie: I really loved the first one.

>> Monte: So maybe go back in your first love?

>> Melanie: That’s not going to be the case.

>> Lori: Nobody can mess with your head like a sister.

>> Melanie: You can live in a fictional world the rest of the time?

>> Lori: And unless Valerie comes up with a character that stands up for herself, she’s headed for an unhappy ending.

>> Announcer: While bride Valerie continues to search for her bestseller.

Sarah: Can you believe that?!

Amanda: Okay. So one: I think we need to have Valerie on the podcast to talk about the Say Yes to the Dress episode if she…

Sarah: I think we do, because my God, the edit her sister got! Holy crap!

Amanda: And two: everyone – and I know, like, the, the narrator of the voiceover is making, like, book puns?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah, Valerie’s making book puns, and her sister’s making book puns, and I’m like, I’m very curious about the reality TV coaching –

Sarah: Oh yes.

Amanda: – of, like, If you’re going to say something, make it a book pun! Or, like, how much coaching there is involved?

Sarah: This had to have been heavily produced, because they’re all participating in this cruel level of group critique? But that’s, like, wild, right?

Amanda: Oh, one hundred percent.

Sarah: So according to Valerie in this feature, the episode aired in January 2014; it’s called “By the Book.” I will link to it in the show notes so you can watch the whole thing. It made me very uncomfortable, and she ended up getting the third dress that she tried on, ‘cause I guess that’s what you do; you pick the third one that you try on usually in this show? That was my guess, ‘cause both of the contestants did in this episode, I think.

Amanda: Because, like, I don’t know.

Sarah: No?

Amanda: They usually have, like, their pick; one of the attendees’ pick, like the sister or mom, what they want to see the bride in; and then kind of like a middle ground? And I feel like the middle ground is probably picked the most often, but there are people who are like, No. Screw you; I’m picking what I want in the first place.

Sarah: Right! And that’s the part I don’t get. Anyway, according to the article, Valerie gave away the dress. It’s a Monique Lhuillier dress? And she gave it away to one of her readers after she wore it because she was like, Well, I wore it and I got married, and gowns are meant to be worn and not stuffed away, so I’m asking readers to sign up for my newsletter and send me an email telling me why they’d like the gown, and I will announce the winner. So I’m curious who ended up with Valerie’s gown!

Amanda: Yeah! I know this is like a story a decade previously, but we don’t, we want to know what happens –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – and we want to know about the show!

Sarah: So tell me why you flagged page 11.

Amanda: So page 11 is a, it’s an ad for –

Sarah: A full-page ad!

Amanda: Yeah – Katie Ashley and The Proposition series. But there’s, there’s like a four-book series, and these just do look kind of like stock photos.

Sarah: Yes, they, they scream cover template, because the top is just the banner of the title; the bottom is the author name; the middle is New York Times and USA Today bestselling author. They’re all exactly the same except for the picture?

Amanda: And the fourth book is titled The Party –

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh my God!

Amanda: – and has –

Sarah: [Still laughing] Oh my God! How did I –

Amanda: They’re all P names… – [laughs] – all P names, and the image is of like this woman in a white button-down shirt, and she’s got beautiful beachy waves, and she looks a little mad, and she literally has a man by the hair –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – and is, like, pushing him away, and he is also in a white button-down shirt, and I’m like, What is happening here? So.

Sarah: [Laughs] She is shoving him by his hair! Is she checking –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – to see if it’s real?

Amanda: Maybe! Is she checking for lice? I don’t know, but it’s –

Sarah: [Laughs] Looks very violent!

Amanda: – aggressive, and I’m like, What – [laughs] –

Sarah: It really is surprisingly aggressive. I’m quite alarmed! [Laughs] Oh my God!

Amanda: Yeah, so that’s why I was like, What?

Sarah: She’s throwing him out –

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: – of the party! She’s the bouncer! She’s throwing him out!

Amanda: It also reminds me of, like, you know in, like, an old TV show when a kid is being bad and you, like, they walk them off by their ear? They, like, grab an ear?

Sarah: [Laughs] It does look like that.

Amanda: That’s what it reminds me of.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: Yep!

Sarah: Now, page 12 is the article that goes with the cover quote “THE END IS NIGH!” and it’s a feature article about authors who are ending beloved series, and I think this is such a smart idea for an article. I would love to know the behind-the-scenes of how this came to be, ‘cause it’s written by Lisa Kessler, who is finishing a series of her own, but in the article she talks to Jennifer Probst, she talks to Brenda Novak, she talks to Sherrilyn Kenyon, she talks to Charlaine Harris; she, she, like, has all of these quotes – Kelly Armstrong? She’s reached out to all these different authors about what it’s like to end a series, and I think that’s such an interesting angle! And I thought, You know what? This is, this really is a sign that this magazine is – or at the time – it was meant for me, because that’s the kind of weird shit I think about. Like, what’s it like to end a series? ‘Cause you know the, wants it to go on, but you’ve got to say no, I’m done now.

Amanda: The title is also “Closing Time” –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – which I thought was funny. [Laughs]

Sarah: Good title! Good article! Like, well done, Lisa Kessler!

And then we get to page 16, and I just, I, I Can. Not. So first of all it’s called “Series Rap Sheet,” which is not the greatest of names. But if there is a book coming out in May that is part of a series, this page, the next two pages list the author, the name of the series, and then the new book and all of the books that have come beforehand, and I imagine that librarians loved this so much. Where else is this information in one place?

Amanda: That’s true; you – I mean, like, now you have Goodreads, and Goodreads does include series links –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and you can kind of click it and then see all the books in there, but, like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – prior to a Goodreads system –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – there really wasn’t anything. Like, you would have to count on, if you grabbed a book, usually the book would list the previous books –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – in, like, one of the title pages or something like that.

Sarah: Right. Like, wow! It’s just, it’s so much information! It’s really impressive, and if the publishers aren’t sending this, this, then the authors are sending it if it’s self-published, but, like, this is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – really impressive! Now, look at the bottom left corner of page 16? It’s a HaBO!

Amanda: It’s a HaBO.

Sarah: I love it!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s a little HaBO called Book Sleuth, the series romance with an amnesiac DEA agent who is taken in by a female ranch owner! It was Devil in Disguise by Anne Williams, Silhouette Intimate Moments, 1989. It’s a HaBO!

Amanda: Where did they, where did they post these HaBOs, though, ‘cause, like, was this posted in a previous magazine? Yeah, March –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – ’14.

Sarah: The March ’14, March 2014 issue.

Amanda: And then it says to, like, be sure to visit RT’s Book Sleuth message board? I wonder if that’s where these things get posted.

Sarah: Oh, maybe it is! That would make sense.

Amanda: So I’m curious like how often that feature comes up for people to ask. Like, maybe if something isn’t getting solved on the message board, then they kind of like –

Sarah: They put it in the magazine?

Amanda: – heighten it to the magazine.

Sarah: Or the Book Sleuth in the magazine only highlights the ones that got, got solved?

Amanda: Hmmm!

Sarah: So they can reference the book?

I also like that at the bottom of page 17 they have First Book in a New Series Launch, so that’s all in one place.

And then on page 18 there’s a full page of paperbacks, notable reissues, old titles, reprints, and paperback releases of hardcover favorites, so if there’s a book that’s been reissued, it’s listed here. I, like, where else is all of that information for one month going to be in one place except in this magazine?

Amanda: There’s so much info.

Sarah: It’s so much info. And it, it’s all telling you, like how often have you almost mistakenly bought another copy of a book you already own because they reissued the cover and you don’t recognize it? Like, I’ve done that a whole bunch of times.

Amanda: That’s something that I call out in, like, the Books on Sale of like, Oh, this one has a new cover, so double-check if you –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – already own it, or, like –

Sarah: Check your library, ‘cause you might already have this one. But, like –

Amanda: – this was in an anthology, so –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – now it’s released by itself!

Sarah: I just think that’s such a good service, really, and, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – where else is all that information in one place?

I wanted to look at the ad for Montlake on page number 21?

Amanda: I did not know Montlake was that old.

Sarah: That was exactly what I was thinking. I was so surprised?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But the, do you remember, do you remember when so many particular contemporary romances had pictures of feet? There were so many pictures –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – of feet and pictures of people holding a hat on their head. There’s one on like page 2; the inside cover is an ad for a book with that woman holding on her hat. That, like, contemporary romance of a very specific flavor was feet and hats. Do you remember that?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wild, right?

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, like, cover trends are always so interesting. [Laughs]

Sarah: Especially when you look at all of these covers. Some of these are so basic. Like, A Husband’s Regret by Natasha Anders? It’s –

Amanda: Or Just One, Just One Thing by Holly Jacobs on that ad page? It’s just like a photo –

Sarah: And –

Amanda: – and then you just have color blocks…

Sarah: Yeah. I, I pasted, I pasted, I tilted, and I added drop shadow. Done, thanks! That was good.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then you have covers like The Best Medicine and The Place I Belong, and they’re beautiful and I mean, okay, The Best Medicine is feet. It’s, like, four feet in a hammock, but I get it. Everyone’s wearing white pants, and it’s a blue sky. But The Place I Belong is one of those super Pinterest-y, Instagram-y table-scapes with, like, lanterns hanging from the trees, and it’s all orange and purple – like, it’s, like, you could see that on Instagram now, and somebody’d be like, Ooh, nice dinner party!

Amanda: My concern is, though, all that food outside, you’ve got to be kidding me. There’s going to be bugs in a second…

Sarah: They don’t have any nets over it, no. It’s so true.

Then I wanted to, I wanted to call your attention to page 23. There is a profile of Anne Tenino, and Anne Tenino wrote a pretty popular early male romance called Frat Boy and Toppy, which I remember people talking about.

Amanda: Yep. [Laughs]

Sarah: In, in the article, Anne talks about her X-rated crochet, and her X-rated crochet patterns are still on her website. If you would like to crochet a penis, Anne Tenino has patterns for you, and I will link to them, and I just think that’s so great.

Amanda: You’re in luck! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, this dick is just so great! Also it taps really directly into that time where all of the m/m covers were butts and hair gel?

Amanda: Yep!

Sarah: Butt and –

Amanda: I think I mentioned that. I was like, Yep! This reminds me a lot of these kind of like silly, goofy – they’re, they were all like this.

Sarah: Oh yeah, that was your comment. I, I had the same thought, like, Oh, yep, butts.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That was your comment.

Amanda: My moment!

Sarah: I’m sorry, I took your comment; I’m sorry.

Amanda: It’s fine!

Sarah: They’re all in that superhero pose where they’re facing away and turning towards you, so you get chest and booty?

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: They’re, they’re looking back at it.

Sarah: Yep. They have to check that it’s there!

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah! Make sure it didn’t disappear.

Sarah: I just love that in the auth-, in the author photo, too, Anne Tenino is crocheting. Like, she has just started a red penis in this, in this issue.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s so great!

So you wanted to look at page 45. Oh my God! I forgot about the Brenda Novak diabetes auction.

Amanda: Oh my goodness.

Sarah: Do you remember that?

Amanda: No!

Sarah: I do. That was a huge thing. It was an online auction of donated items to benefit juvenile diabetes, and Brenda Novak did it for the whole month of May. This was the tenth year, so it’d been going on ten years, and I think she raised like a couple million dollars for juvenile diabetes.

Amanda: Wow!

Sarah: Yeah, it was impressive. It was the big –

Amanda: Good for her!

Sarah: – like, if you look at the, the big charity auctions that happen now, Brenda Novak was one of the pioneers of that in the romance community.

Amanda: Fine.

Sarah: Yeah. So what did you want to flag?

Amanda: So we mentioned this, this in the previous episode, but there is a black-and-white ad on page 45, and that led me to thinking of, like, what ad rates were? ‘Cause this is, I think, maybe the only black-and-white ad I remember seeing?

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: And I don’t know if that was like a style choice or if RT was running different prices for full-color versus black-and-white, and I’m very curious about the decision for it to be black and white versus color? If that was just like an author choice of that’s how she wanted it to be designed, or if it’s part of, like, the advertising package of, like, you can opt –

Sarah: Wow!

Amanda: – for a black-and-white ad for slightly cheaper!

Sarah: Yeah! That’s, that’s a really good question, because on this page, the border, it’s part of Teen Scene, the border is purple!

Amanda: Yeah! And I think, like, I did not notice any other black-and-white advertising in here –

Sarah: I didn’t –

Amanda: – but I could be wrong ‘cause it’s, it’s a hefty magazine, if we haven’t mentioned.

Sarah: Oh yeah, it’s a chunky boy.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s girthy.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s quite girthy. But yeah, that is really interesting to see a black-and-white ad, and also, I don’t think this is – let me look at my other monitor – no! This is not the resolution on my monitor; this ad is not in focus.

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: The edges of the book, the edges of the books are blurry, so it’s not even in focus all the way. Like, the dpi is weird.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: If it could, it could just be a –

Sarah: That’s just how it is!

Amanda: – poor, poorly designed ad! [Laughs]

Sarah: But if you look at the sharpness of the text compared to the text in the ads – so the texts of the reviews and the texts in the ad – the –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – text in the ad is super muddy! Like, it’s really out of focus! That is really interesting! I, you’re right; I do want to know –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – I want to know what the costs were. I super want to know.

Amanda: Because, like, for, for ads on the, on the site, do people send what they want the ad to look like, or do you design it to fit sort of like the dimensions and stuff we need for, like, the sidebar?

Sarah: Oh, both! Both, both, both.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: A lot of the times I design the ads because the author doesn’t have a designer, and also I do design as an add-on, and I’m so used to doing it that I don’t charge very much? I do the desktop and the mobile platform size, and it’s 400 by 600 for the desktop, and most of the time that’s a book cover? So sometimes people just send me their book covers, sometimes people have an ad, sometimes they have the frames of the ad and they want me to animate it for them, which is no big deal. Sometimes I design them? Like, there’s an ad right now running for Molly Molloy and the Angel of Death, and I designed that one because Maria Vale wanted to make it clear, as we talked about in our episode, that it wasn’t a romance, and I think I said something like, In the timeless tradition of A Knight in Shining Armor, like, this is the kind of book we’re talking about here. So sometimes I design them, and sometimes they’re sent to me, but they have to conform to the size, or I have to resize them.

So if this person just said, This is the ad that I have, and it was black and white, then that’s probably what they went with.

Amanda: Yeah, but I also, yeah, we don’t know maybe if they had an in-house designer who worked with people or if, like –

Sarah: I hope –

Amanda: – you send a, here is sort of –

Sarah: I figure –

Amanda: Yeah, here’s the dimensions and stuff, the specifications we need, depending on the ad you’re running?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: We want to know more about the, how the sausage is made here.

Sarah: You know, I bet we can find out.

Now, if you look at page 56 and 57, these, this is in the Inspirational section, and every model on these covers has gorgeous hair. Like, absolutely –

Amanda: It’s the same publisher!

Sarah: It’s all, it’s all Revell, and they all have gorgeous hair. They, it’s all beautiful; there’s no frizz; it’s like wavy and perfect; and it is so, just, infuriating. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, I mean like the closer to Christ, the better the hair? Is that what I’m learning?

Sarah: Apparently!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: The higher the hair the closer to God, but the less frizz the closer you are to Jesus? Although dude on A Place in His Heart has some frizz? She has perfect hair.

Amanda: Perfect. But I –

Sarah: And hey, there’s your book! When Love Stirs!

Amanda: When Love Stirs. I do have, give pause to the woman on One More Last Chance who is leaning up against a very old fence.

Sarah: Ouch.

Amanda: As someone who grew up in a, in an area that had very old fences, you’re either asking for a splinter or asking for tetanus, so don’t touch those.

Sarah: Yeah, especially not in a, in a three-quarter-sleeve shirt. That’s not going to work.

Amanda: No, don’t, don’t rest your arm on that!

Sarah: Nope. I mean, that, you want ants? That’s how you’re going to get ants.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: You also wanted to look at page 73. What is on page 73?

Amanda: Page 73 is an ad for a hardcover book. There’s a – [laughs] – like, callout to special hardcover price –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – for eighteen dollars for Laura Griffin’s Far Gone. Now look, you can’t get a hardcover these days for eighteen dollars, I’ll tell you that.

Sarah: No!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s what trade costs now!

Amanda: Yep! That’s a trade paperback, my friends.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: You, $16.95 or $17.95.

Sarah: Holy crap!

Amanda: Yeah! But specially priced hardcover, just eighteen dollars. Now hardcovers are between like twenty-six and thirty-five I think is the margin, depending on how big the book and publisher are and stuff like that.

Sarah: It’s so much, right? It is so –

Amanda: Oh, a hardcover is like a down payment.

Sarah: It’s so expensive. It’s a tank of gas, easily. Easily a tank of gas.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: Next up, on page 88 – yeah! [Laughs] Okay.

Amanda: Even children –

Sarah: Please, please describe this ad.

Amanda: Okay. So it’s a Samhain Publishing ad. Samhain does not exist anymore.

Sarah: No.

Amanda: It is a half-page ad, and it says, When Mr. Glad Rags meets Mr. Riches, the result is sexy fun! And –

Sarah: The book is called Stuff!

Amanda: [Laughs] The, the, the title is just Stuff! And it’s like two young – and I’m emphasizing young – men in like three-piece suits in front of clothing racks?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And one, one of the men’s face is very Uncanny Valley. Like, there’s something off about it.

Sarah: I don’t think that head was on that body. The guy in the back?

Amanda: Nooo!

Sarah: His head is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – too big for the rest of him.

Amanda: Yeah, when I saw this ad I was like, What? [Laughs]

Sarah: They don’t shave.

Amanda: What?

Sarah: They don’t need to shave. They are very, very –

Amanda: Yeah –

Sarah: This is –

Amanda: – nothing’s happening.

Sarah: This is like middle-schoolers in a play set in the ‘20s? Like, they’re all in this middle school –

Amanda: Newsies!

Sarah: Yes, they’re in a –

Amanda: It’s a new, it’s a –

Sarah: They’re in a production of Newsies in this ad.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And they look way too young to be being written about and, and having their sexy fun written about as well. They look way too young for that.

Amanda: It, but it, it’s Stuff! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, it’s Stuff by Josephine –

Amanda: Stuff.

Sarah: Okay! Speaking of Samhain, I also wanted to look at the ads on page 101 because it is such a funny, just a funny collection of books to me? Okay, so –

Amanda: Oh my God. I feel like we’ve snarked the Make Me Burn cover before; I feel like we have.

Sarah: I’m sure we have. But look at the top row: Moira Rogers? That’s Kit Rocha.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: So that’s early Kit Rocha pen name, and then in the bottom there’s Moon Shine by Vivian Arend, still writing.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: I think Crystal Jordan is still writing. I don’t know why this woman is peeing on the Capitol building, but it’s fine.

Amanda: Well, like, I, I, it’s like Make Me Burn, the Capitol building is like between her legs. It gives me –

Sarah: It’s pointed right up at her cooch. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah. Like, UTI vibes –

Sarah: Yeah, like –

Amanda: – is what I’m getting.

Sarah: – like, this, this is not pleasant. But this is such a collection of very specific cover trends. Like, if you look at Enigma, how low are those jeans? Those, like, it, the rise of those jeans from the crotch seam to her belt, that has to be like three inches.

Amanda: Low-rise jeans, and whenever I hear a, like, low-rise jeans are coming back, I’m like, Please –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: – do not do this to us again.

Sarah: We did this! We do not need to do this again. This is not necessary.

Amanda: Please. Long live the high rise.

Sarah: Mom jeans all the way, babe.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Having had a C-section, mom jeans all the way. But, like, look how low those jeans are!

Amanda: No, thank you. [Laughs]

Sarah: And then there’s some butt-grabbing and some tank tops, and you know that people are going to be doing some crime ‘cause they’re wearing a tank top.

Amanda: The Carnal Magic cover, I keep misreading it as Caramel Magic –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and I don’t know why.

Sarah: It’s ‘cause it’s cold.

Amanda: Probably ‘cause the font, well, the font looks like caramel to me, and I keep, my brain keeps filling it in as like Caramel Magic.

Sarah: I mean, it is, this is going to come out in October, which is a time of caramel magic at every possible store.

Amanda: I’m ready!

Sarah: Yeah?

So if you look at page 112, there’s a sidebar ad of a woman with gold hair and gold lace holding some kind of a timer device with gears, and at the bottom it said Essie, so I thought, Oh, Essie! Like the nail polish company! They had a nail polish company advertising in here! Well, I mean, that’s a great match, but wow! That’s a major advertiser!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Everything else that I’ve seen has been pretty much publishers. No, it is not Essie. It is from Lucid, another publisher that no longer exists, and here’s what I don’t get: apparently, this – so this was in the left and right pages, so it’s 112 and 113 – on the left is this picture of Essie, whoever that is, and then the ad continues: And Lucid wish you a divine Easter. Get your Sexily Ever After from Easter’s Baskets. So wait –

Amanda: What is this?

Sarah: [Laughs] Why are we having a Sexily Ever After for Easter? Like, what is happening? Why are there Easter eggs in a chest underneath a chess board with books coming out?

Amanda: And there’s, like, little games. Like, one says Truth or Dare. You can barely see Dare, but –

Sarah: It’s wild, right? This ad, the more I look at it, the less I understand what is happening between Have a Divine Easter, get your Sexily Ever After.

Amanda: There’s a slip of paper…the ad, the Lucid ad. [Laughs] It says Alien escort to arrive at client’s home at six?

Sarah: Oh my God, it does say that! I thought you were talking about the Lucid logo, which did have a little snake or lizard or something in it, but, like –

Amanda: No!

Sarah: – what? Alien escort to arrive at client’s house? What?

Amanda: Yeah. I don’t know what this is. [Laughs]

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: But, like, is this, like, a giveaway? Is this like a series? I don’t –

Sarah: Easter makes you horny?

Amanda: I don’t know what this ad is trying to accomplish?

Sarah: I, I don’t know, but I really want it, I, I really want a transcript of the design notes for this ad. Like, I want to know every comment that was made to make this happen, because none of these pieces make sense, and surely I am missing the story behind this. Like, I’m –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – clearly missing what Essie and Easter baskets and a chess board and a chest of eggs and games and then books and alien – I, some, these all have something to do with each other. I don’t know what that something is.

Amanda: I know what it is. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s weird, right? Like, I don’t know! Super odd.

Amanda: And we may never know.

Sarah: We may never know. I mean, Lucid is gone, so it’s not like we can ask anybody.

So you flagged an ad on 114 – no, I flagged this ad. I flagged –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – one, page 114 at the bottom, there is an ad for Riptide – look at the hockey romance! Isn’t it cute? But here’s the best part of this ad! Okay:

>> This macho jock has a crooked little secret.

It’s Straight Shooter by Heidi Belleau, and look at what is pictured on the cover underneath her name. That is a VHS tape.

Amanda: Why, though? That’s why I’m like, What does it have to do with anything? Does this take place in the early ‘90s?

Sarah: I’m guessing he has a sex tape. I’m, if I had to guess –

Amanda: Oh.

Sarah: – I am guessing that his dirty, his dirty crook, or his crooked little secret is probably that he has a sex tape, and the only way to clearly communicate that was –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – by putting in a video on the front. Oh my God, the series is called Rear Entrance Video! [Laughs]

Amanda: See, I thought the crooked little secret in reference, in the tagline would be like his peeper, his bits. That’s where I thought that secret was going.

Sarah: That his John Thomas is, is, is a little bit not straight?

Amanda: His hockey stick is not –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – straight. It’s crooked. He’s got a crook in it, which is fine! But also, can we talk about how, like, it shows other books in the series, and one has like a teacher’s pet, straight A student?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And the title’s called Apple Polisher.

Sarah: Whoo!

Amanda: Which does not roll off the tongue. [Laughs]

Sarah: So there’s Apple Polisher, Wallflower, and Straight Shooter, and these are the books in the Rear Entrance Video series.

Amanda: What bugs me in a, as a design element, and I get why they did this, but Straight Shooter and Wallflower, their first word is completely left-ali-, or right-aligned or takes up the bulk of the top of the cover, and then the second part of the word, Shooter and flower is vertical beneath it, but because Polisher is such a long word, it was bumped up?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Can you see what I’m talking about? And Apple –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – is, like, left-aligned?

Sarah: The full, the format –

Amanda: I hate it!

Sarah: – doesn’t match; the format does not match at all.

Amanda: It’s not a consistent thing, and I get it, ‘cause Polisher’s longer and, you know, would cover what looks like the marquis of a video store?

Sarah: It would certainly cover the VHS tape, yeah.

Amanda: Can’t have that.

Sarah: No.

Amanda: We need people seeing that VHS tape!

Sarah: We absolutely do.

So you flagged an ad on page 115, and this ad is amazing.

Amanda: I just – it’s Ellora’s Cave, let me just say that, and there’s two book covers, but I want to talk about the one that’s called Artist’s Touch by Kerry Adrienne?

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: And there’s a man with dark, gelled, spiky hair; dark eyeliner; and he’s holding definitely a Photoshopped paintbrush in his hand.

Sarah: Yeah, that was not originally in his hand.

Amanda: But this looks very similar to Adam Lambert.

Sarah: A hun-, hundred percent, yes. That is –

Amanda: Like a body double; like a celebrity –

Sarah: That is –

Amanda: – impersonator of Adam Lambert.

Sarah: Absolutely. A hundred percent.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So at the back of the magazine, on page 123, is all of the information about the 2014 RT New Orleans Convention, which was pretty frigging fun. But this was May 13th through the 18th, 2014, so they’re getting right up to the wire about, about –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – getting people to come. But look at page 123. So they had their thirtieth anniversary convention in Kansas City, and a special tribute to the pioneers of historical romance, so for this year they are doing a tribute to the pioneers of African-American romance. And if you were wondering, Are the authors the same authors that are looked at as, as the African-American romance authors now? Yes. Yes, they are. It’s Sandra Kitt, Brenda Jackson, and Beverly Jenkins. It’s kind of astonishing –

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: – like, oh, okay, wait, this was 2014. This was almost ten years ago! Ah, the, the, time is a flat circle.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But it’s interesting; I’ll screen-capture this and put it in the, in the post about this, but it’s actually a little tiny history about the history of Black women writing Black romance in the genre going back to the ‘80s.

>> Kathryn Falk and Sandra Kitt will co-host a retrospective to describe the evolution and impact and introduce some of the original writers in person.

So they’re having like a big party and celebrating Beverly Jenkins and Brenda Jackson and Sandra Kitt. I should see if Beverly Jenkins remembers this. [Laughs] I bet she does!

Amanda: And, like, it’s interesting they mention that Kensington first signed Sandra Kitt in 1994, and Avon signed Beverly Jenkins in 1995.

Sarah: Amazing, right?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Also, notice that the, that Kathryn Falk helped persuade Kensington to start a Black romance imprint in the ‘90s. Did she now?

Amanda: Oh my – so it also mentions that Sandra Kitt was the first Black writer to publish with Harlequin in 1984, although she only wrote books with Caucasian characters because a market for characters of color had not been established.

Sarah: Bullshit.

Amanda: Oh, bull.

Sarah: So prior to 1984, people didn’t want to read about Black people. What in the hell. [Laughs] On one hand it’s like, Wow! This is a really interesting tiny snapshot of history, but I don’t think this history’s entirely accurate?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wow. Amazing, right?

Amanda: I would agree. [Laughs]

Sarah: So then we move into other features about the conference, and one thing I do remember hearing was that Romantic Times, the conference, made a lot of money. It was a massive money-maker for the RT umbrella, and a lot of the magazine, I believe, was trying to drive people to come to the conference because that was a much more profitable enterprise. I mean, which makes sense: hospitality is going to have a much better margin of revenue and profit over, say, a publication. But still, this is like five pages. My favorite thing about this: did you see the Savory Stations on the menu?

Amanda: Yeah, there’s like, they would set up, what, like food stations at the conference, and it would be – [laughs] – sponsored by publishers?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: So you’d be like, you’d be eating jambalaya sponsored by Gallery and Pocket Books.

Sarah: So basically, when they’re – do you remember the Fairy Balls? I remember talking to an author about this. So this is anecdata; this – I don’t have, like, documentation for this, although I’m sure it’s not very difficult to find, but remember the Fairy Ball and there was the Seelie Court and the Unseelie Court, and it was like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – twenty authors on each side? They were paying for that; they were paying for the food; they were paying for everything happening there. They were signing up to underwrite the cost of all of that, and the cost of participating at that level, so say it was like five thousand dollars to contribute to this Fairy Ball. Then you were a member of one of the other courts, and you had like a role at the ball, but you were paying for that. Everything you were paying for. So RT is hosting the Mardi Gras World Carnival and a Big Easy Feast – [laughs] – and there’s going to be a float, and there’s going to be a parade, and then there’s going to be ten food stations, and this just made me laugh so hard:

So RT Book Reviews is sponsoring the red beans and rice. So okay. Then Ellora’s Cave was sponsoring crawfish étouffée over rice. Gallery and Pocket were sponsoring sausage jambalaya. Sourcebooks was sponsoring alligator fritters. [Laughs] I don’t know why that tickles me so much! Alligator fritters! Tor Forge and Tor Teen were, were sponsoring shrimp and grits, and I would have been living at that station. Totally Bound – which I don’t believe exists anymore – sponsored the andouille sausage and chicken gumbo. And Samhain sponsored the beignets – again, I would be at that station next. Forever sponsored bread pudding. Kensington sponsored Bananas Foster, and Random House sponsored sweet pecan pralines. So there’s just like –

Amanda: It looks so good.

Sarah: – each publisher has a food, and I find this so funny! [Still laughing]

Amanda: Can you imagine, like, when they’re sitting at, like, a budgeting meeting or something like that –

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes!

Amanda: – or, like, an outreach meeting of like, What are we doing for publicity or, like, marketing, and they’re like, Well, we’ve got five thousand dollars to serve alligator fritters or like, what?

Sarah: [Laughs more]

Amanda: Like, We’re sponsoring the alligator fritters!

Sarah: And the language –

Amanda: Wild.

Sarah: – the language of RT, the magazine, it’s a very specific kind of PR language that I never, like, I don’t see.

>> Alligator fritters will be the talk of the night as many will try this delicious delicacy for the very first time!

Amanda: I’m like, the RT convention, like, agenda?

Sarah: Oh –

Amanda: And reading the event descriptions?

Sarah: Oh, it was like reading an MLM catalogue.

Amanda: What, like –

[Laughter]

Amanda: Some of these events I remember and being like, What?

Sarah: Lot of exclamation points.

Amanda: We’re going to do what?

Sarah: And a lot of clichés. And then this one, in this, in this particular issue there’s, Thursday night is the Samhain Saints and Sinners Party, which means that Samhain was underwriting the cost of the whole party. Like, that’s a big thing, but then they’re also going to have raffles, they’re going to give away e-readers, they’re going to give away gift cards; like, all of that.

Amanda: The amount of money, the amount of money publishers had to spend on this stuff –

Sarah: It’s amazing, right? Because if you think about it, like, I’ve hosted events at, at a hotel. Even for, like, breakfast, to get the hotel to give you a pot of coffee? Is like eighty-five dollars. The markup on food and beverage in a hotel is one of the ways they make a lot of money, and this, for example, that’s just Heather Graham underwriting that whole thing. Like, when I went to Pittsburgh and there was a hanging on stage with a tripwire and everything? That was her family and her theater company underwriting the cost of all of that, and it had to have been so much money!

Amanda: Yeah! And then you look at, like, publishing now, and it’s like –

Sarah: Hi, would you sponsor –

Amanda: – sorry –

Sarah: – the crawfish étouffée? No. [Laughs]

Amanda: No.

Sarah: How ‘bout shrimp and grits?

Amanda: But also like, Sorry, union workers – [laughs] – you can’t get a fair contract.

Sarah: Yeah, we can’t give you a fair contract because we need to sponsor the gumbo. Like, what?!

Amanda: But look, RT is not around anymore!

Sarah: No!

Amanda: So you can put that gumbo money – [laughs] – back into your workforce!

Sarah: Nobody’s getting the gumbo money except the executive suite, alas.

And what’s wild is that I, I’m just, I cannot, I cannot stop thinking about this: Kathryn Falk got up in front of everybody and said, I’m done. No more conference, no more magazine, we’re done. And she just put it down and walked away. Like, wow! That was a lot! And it’s just, there’s no record of it, there’s no archives, there’s nothing online. She let the trademark expire. Like, she’s done. It’s really amazing to me.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I mean, yes and no I’m surprised, where it’s like, this seemed to have been doing well, and, like, even the last conference we attended seemed to be well-attended.

Sarah: That was at, was that Reno was the last one? Yeah. Reno was the last one, I think.

Amanda: I think it was Reno.

Sarah: Yeah, Reno was the last one.

Amanda: ‘Cause then Book Lovers Con started, and that, the first year for that was in New Orleans. But, like, she did not pass the torch to anyone to keep the brand going –

Sarah: No, that was it.

Amanda: – she was just like, Yeah, I don’t want to do this anymore, so now no one’s going to do this anymore.

Sarah: Yep, I’m done.

Amanda: So, but I can see, like, some people getting attached to a brand that you’ve built and maybe not wanting to relinquish that brand to someone else. So I can see that being a conflict, but yeah, I was really surprised, considering how on the surface it seemed very successful and, and had a lot of engagement with romance readers, that it wasn’t going to continue, but also, now we know, COVID happened!

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So would it have survived –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – the pandemic when, you know, pretty much no one is meeting up and doing things; no conferences are being held; no conventions are being held.

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: People don’t want to travel, be around other people, so I’m, I’m curious. Did Kathryn Falk know something that we didn’t know?

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yeah, ‘cause she announced that it was shutting down. The last one, she announced the last one on May 16th, 2018, in Reno. This is it. And that was, the, the magazine online and the VIP lounge online closed immediately. Like, that’s it. It’s done. Like, we’re done now. It’s, it’s really kind of incredible.

RT was weird in terms of the politics of who was featured and who was not and which publishers paid to have a promotional por-, a promotional portion of the magazine for their authors and which ones didn’t, and which authors got the support? But RT was also a place where they were the very first ones to have a signing for digital books. They figured out a way to have a signing for e-books, and that line was down the hall and around the corner. That was the one in Florida where everybody’s credit cards got stolen by the front desk.

And the loss of RT is a really big loss. Not just the, the conference, but the magazine too! Like, look at all of this stuff! We just did like two and a half hours of recording just talking about one month of romance almost ten years ago.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: My last favorite section that I want to call your attention to – I will look at this in every issue – contests and giveaways. In the back they are, they’re going to give away books, often books that are coming out in that issue? But the one that I particularly like is in the bottom left? Twihards. Do you remember that? [Laughs] That’s like –

Amanda: We don’t need to say that anymore, do we? [Laughs]

Sarah: Twihards!

>> If you haven’t met Helena Hunting, it’s time to get acquainted, get acquainted. She’s the latest author to have her Twilight fanfiction adapted for a series of full-length novels!

This one is about tattooists. Yeah, tattooing people. Clipped Wings and –

Amanda: I, I didn’t know that series was based on Twilight fanfiction. I remember seeing it; I never read it, but I remember those covers.

Sarah: I did not know that either, but scanning this and seeing Twihards? Wow. That took me back.

Amanda: Oh gosh. When did Twilight come out?

Sarah: The book or the movie?

Amanda: Well, the movies came out in 2008.

Sarah: The first book came out in 2005. Oh my God, the same year as Smart Bitches. Awww! We’re Twilight years old!

Amanda: So we’re still saying Twihards.

Sarah: In 2014. Yep.

Amanda: Yeah, what is that, like nine years after the book –

Sarah: Nine years later.

Amanda: – came out?

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: Okay. [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s amazing.

So what did you think of Romantic Times issue May 2014? Are you looking forward to doing this series?

Amanda: Yes! It was a trip, too, ‘cause I remember a lot of these covers. I remember, a lot of the covers that we see in the ads, I remember seeing them?

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: And the magazine and convention are very similar in the plastering of book covers.

Sarah: Yes. If you wanted to create that visual memory of a book cover and what a book said and what a book looked like, this was going to help do that a lot.

Amanda: And so I feel like, looking at the language, looking at the advertisements, looking at the, like, profiles and features, RT did a very good job of literally turning their magazine into a copy and making it a convention.

Sarah: Yeah! They really did!

Amanda: Like –

Sarah: They really, really did turn the magazine into a convention.

Amanda: It is like a clone. Like, for those who attend, have attended a convention, you can see the pretty much duplicate stylistic choices from magazine to events.

Sarah: Such a good point. I never made that real connection, but it really was like being in the magazine with all the readers. And that is not –

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: – a phenomenon that happens very often. That’s really, really interesting. That’s such a good point. That’s really amazing.

Well, thank you for doing this!

Amanda: Yeah! No problem!

Sarah: Next up, June 2014, also courtesy of Shannon Stacey and Angie James, who searched their Dropbox for old issues in PDF, thank you very much! And that has Susan Mallery on the cover, so that’ll be, instead of historical –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – we’re going to do contemporary!

Amanda: We’re on the hunt for the white whale, the one-star review.

Sarah: We are!

Amanda: We’re –

Sarah: We are on the hunt –

Amanda: We’re on the search.

Sarah: – for the one-star. [Laughs]

Thank you so much for doing this!

Amanda: No problem! This was bonkers. This was –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – this is the bonkers thought experiment that I have enjoyed, for sure.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you, as always, to Amanda, and thank you to everyone who contributed to this issue.

Now, in future episodes I will make sure to credit the reviewers who are writing the reviews that we’re discussing, and I didn’t do that in the last episode, and I didn’t realize that we hadn’t until I was editing. I apologize! So I do want to give credit. The reviews that we were reading in Romantic Times were written by – [desk drum roll] – you ready?

Kathe Robin, Mandy Boles, Leslie Frohberg, Melissa Parcel, Ellen Parsons, Susannah Balch, Lauren Spielberg, Chandra McNeil, Carolyn Martin, Regina Small, Victoria Frerichs, Jennifer Wilson, Jill M. Smith, Anna Dougherty, Jaime A Geraldi, Bunny Callahan , Cyndy Aleo, Bridget Keown, Sabrina Madan, Alexandra Kay, and Jacqui McGugins.

I am so sorry that I didn’t properly credit the reviews as we were discussing them, but I will do that in future episodes.

I will also be linking to the X-rated crochet gallery, ‘cause I would never not do that, and I will link to the episode of Say Yes to the Dress right when Valerie shows. Plus, she has agreed to come on the podcast, so we’re going to talk to her about what it was like to be on Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta and ask lots and lots of nosey questions. This is going to be so much fun.

I always end with a terrible joke, and this joke comes from Cyllan by way of Tumblr, which you know that I love. All right, math nerds get ready.

Did you hear the Fibonacci joke?

No? You didn’t hear the Fibonacci joke?

Well, it’s as bad as the last two jokes you’ve heard combined.

[Snorts] Yay, math nerd humor! Math nerd humor! That one generated a very loud Ugh from the family, so I know it’s a good one.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week. 

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

Oh, if you have issues of Romantic Times, please get in touch with me.

[end of excellent music]