304. “You Have a Type and it Might be Mullets” – Sarah, Amanda, and Elyse are VERY Silly About Books and Villainy

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 304 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me today are Amanda and Elyse, and we are about to get very silly about books and villainy. As you probably noticed, the title of this episode is “You Have a Type, And It Might Be Mullets.” If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like when we hang out together, this episode is definitely for you. And if you are the type of person who laughs when other people are laughing, this episode will also definitely be for you. While we were at Romantic Times in May, we recorded two podcasts, which I probably should never do again, because the editing is very difficult. This is part one, and part one is incredibly silly. We recorded after dinner one night, so we’re sort of sleepy and goofy and possibly also Doc and Dopey; I’m definitely Doc and Dopey. We talk about books that we’re interested or have seen at RT, and then we get really silly, and our discussion includes the following eight very crucial questions:

Question one: Why does Amanda have a weakness for Val Kilmer?

Two: How does Amanda rank the Hemsworths in order of physical density?

Three: How does Amanda rank the Real Housewives franchises in order of quality?

Four: How bad of a style icon was Anita Blake? Or is Anita Blake? She’s still in, she’s still in print; she’s still being published.

Number five: How many Alfreds were there in the Batman film franchises, and which one sounds like an audiobook narrator?

Number six: Which fanfics are Elyse and Amanda’s favorites?

Number seven: Which Backstreet Boy was Amanda and Elyse’s favorite?

And question eight: Can Amanda and Elyse find a villain that would interest me as a potential hero? Spoiler alert: no. I don’t go for villains. But they really tried, and it’s very funny.

This is what happens when Amanda and Elyse and I get really, really silly and stop making sense, and given that this has been a bit of a rough week, I hope you enjoy our completely bubbly, goofy, silly discussion.

Now, I do have a correction: toward the end, Amanda mentions that she finds a picture of Lee Pace as Edward in Breaking Dawn. It’s not Lee Pace as Edward. Apparently, Pace was in Breaking Dawn, and we have some pictures from that role, and they’re so goofy. His hair is preposterous. So those, along with all the books and things that we mention – and we mention a lot of things – are in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

This episode is brought to you by Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane. Beau Petty has been searching his whole life for a place that fills all the empty spaces in him, for a way to tame his restlessness, and for answers to the secret he has never stopped trying to solve. What he was not searching for was a woman to claim all of him, but when Cora Silvera walks back into his life, he is ready to search out all the ways that he can make her his. Cora has spent her life as the family nurturer, taking care of others, and now she’s ready to pass that job on to someone else. It’s time to make changes and live for herself, and in that moment, her former teenage crush reappears, and the draw and the heat of their instant connection is like nothing either of them has ever experienced. He craves being around her, and she accepts him, dark corners and all.  But Beau thinks Cora has had more than enough drama in her life, and he wants to protect her from the secrets of his past, even if that means holding back the last pieces of himself. But Cora is no pushover, and she means to claim all of those pieces, because sometimes what you find is not what you were searching for. Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane is on sale June 26th and is available for preorder wherever books are sold.

We have a podcast transcript sponsor this week, which is very fun because Elyse mentions this book during this episode which we recorded a month ago, so it’s a total coincidence. I love when things works out like this. Today’s podcast transcript is sponsored by I Am Justice by Diana Muñoz Stewart. If you like the intrigue of Sandra Brown mixed with the passion of Laura Kaye, you will love this romantic suspense that travels the globe from eastern Pennsylvania to the Middle East to Mexico. Rescued from the streets by the world-renowned Parish family, Justice joined their covert sisterhood of vigilante assassins. Her next target: a sex-trafficking ring in the war-torn Middle East. She just needs the right cover. Sandesh Ross left Special Forces and started a humanitarian group to aid victims of war, but saving the world isn’t cheap. Enter Parish Industries and their limitless funding, with one catch: their hot, prickly PR specialist Justice Parish. BookPage named I Am Justice a top pick, saying, “An intriguing premise, a cast of strong characters unwilling to back down and black-hearted, deserve-to-die villains make I Am Justice a winning start to an exciting new series.” Cindy Dees, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author, said, “It’s witty, dangerous, fun, and smoking hot—the perfect can’t-put-it-down read…” I Am Justice by Diana Muñoz Stewart is on sale now wherever books are sold. Find out more at dianamunozstewart.com.

We have a podcast Patreon, and the Patreon community helps me commission transcripts for older episodes, maintain equipment for live shows, and make sure that every episode is transcribed forward and backwards in the archive. I am planning another live show, so stay tuned if you are going to RWA in Denver; I will have details very soon. I also collaborate with the Patreon community to develop questions for upcoming interviews, and for as little as a dollar a month, I would love to have you join us; it is a lot of fun. You can have a look at all of the tiers and rewards at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

And I also want to thank some of the Patreon folks personally, so to Heather, also Heather, Liz, Gemma, and Wendy, thank you so very much for being part of the Patreon community. I deeply appreciate it.

Are there other ways to support the show? There are always to support podcasts that you enjoy, and if there are podcasts that you enjoy, all of these things apply: you can leave a review wherever or however you listen; you can tell a friend; you can subscribe; you can just recommend whatever makes you happy; whatever works. But most of all, thank you for hanging out with me and for inviting me into your eardrums each week. I am very honored that you hang out with us.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You will find me at the end of this episode telling you who this is. I will also have a preview of what is coming up on the website this week – there is a website to go with the podcast, I’m sure you knew. I have a truly, truly dreadful joke. It is so bad I cannot wait to share it with you; it’s really horrible. And of course, in the podcast show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, we will have all of the books and movies and television shows that we talk about; there are a lot. And also links to some of the items that we mention, including Lee Pace, not as Edward, but in Breaking Dawn, and if I can find it, we’ll answer visually the question of why Amanda has this lifelong thing for Val Kilmer.

And now, without any further delay, on with our very, very silly podcast.

[music]

Sarah: So do you have any books that you’ve noticed since you’ve been here? I mean we haven’t, the conference has just started, so we’re early, but do you have anything that you’ve learned about that you want to talk about?

Amanda: Elyse –

Elyse: [Laughs] I happen to have a book sitting right next to me, conveniently, called I Am Justice by Diana Muñoz Stewart, and she’s got this new series out which features, like, the mercenary soldier hero, but the mercenary soldier character is the heroine, not the hair-o. Hair-o, hero, whatever.

[Laughter]

Elyse: So I was very excited to see that.

Sarah: And the cover is very cool.

Elyse: Yeah, she’s, like, standing there holding a gun, wearing combat clothes, looking like she is not here for your shit.

Amanda: It’s a power stance.

Elyse: Boobs firmly tucked inside a sports bra. There’s no cleavage there.

Sarah: Good sports bra, too; it’s not giving her uni-broob, uni-boob.

Elyse: Nope.

Sarah: That’s good.

Elyse: She’s ready to go, man. She looks kind of like an oiled-up Mila Kunis, a little bit.

Amanda: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah: Like Mila Kunis and Katie Holmes merged.

Elyse: And, but they also got kind of like a bad spray tan at the same time

Amanda: So there hasn’t been much grabbing for books on my end, but I did find a very interesting category romance, and I’ve never read one before.

Sarah: Really! You’ve never read a category!

Amanda: Never! Never.

Sarah: I did not know that.

Amanda: But it’s called The Ballerina’s Secret by Teri Wilson, and the heroine is a ballerina, and she’s hiding her hearing loss, and the hero is the, like, piano accompanist in her next production.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: Very curious to see how this will go.

Elyse: Is that poor lifeguard still out there?

Sarah: Yes.

Elyse: It’s, like, fifty-five and pouring rain, and this poor lifeguard is sitting by the pool, because they have to –

Sarah: ‘Cause there’s people in the pool. There’s people in the pool right now.

Elyse: Are there people in the pool?

Sarah: Yeah, there’s a bunch of people in the pool.

Elyse: Who is in, who the hell’s in the pool?! Is it still those Goth kids?

Sarah: What?

Amanda: Probably.

Sarah: Goth kids in the pool?

Amanda: You know the type.

Sarah: I do.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I do!

Amanda: You know the type!

Sarah: I do.

Amanda: What about you, Sarah? Pick up anything good?

Sarah: No?

Elyse: Any hot marketing tips you want to share with us?

[Laughter]

Sarah: One thing I have noticed is that the agenda is a little sparse at times?

Elyse: Yeah.

Sarah: And there are things that I’m, that I, I just, I couldn’t think of doing, like karaoke at ten in the morning? I can’t do karaoke at ten in the morning. It’s too early, and it’s also light outside. Although –

Elyse: It’s noon for you!

Sarah: – being – yeah, it’s like –

Elyse: No, one!

Sarah: – it’s like next week, and seeing as we’re here in a casino, there are very few windows in all the meeting spaces, so I don’t actually know what time it is, but I know it’s too early for karaoke.

Amanda: And they’re always tinted.

Sarah: Right, in a weird way.

Elyse: I’m going to give you your book back right away so you don’t fight me for it.

Amanda: Good. I’m glad, ‘cause –

Sarah: Beat her ass.

Amanda: – I was, I was ready to come after you for it. [Laughs]

Sarah: Run carefully.

Elyse: We’ve all got flats on. You took your shoes off.

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse: This is going to be the best podcast we’ve ever –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Elyse: This is great listening right here. This is fantastic. [Laughs]

Sarah: We all sound like we’re on NPR.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So what do you do?

Amanda: A good listening, like going to bed podcast.

Sarah: This is just –

Elyse: How do you do your NPR name?

Sarah: – Sleepy Time Podcast.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s time for us to put you to sleep tonight, relaxed and happy. So is there anyone who’s here that you really want to meet? I mean, it’s okay if it’s no.

Elyse: No.

Amanda: Yeah, not really. I’m kind of a little fangirl-y that Anne Bishop is here, but I don’t know if I’ll have time to go to her panels or even if they’re doing signings at, like, the craft panels they’re doing?

Elyse: The party things? I did the romantic suspense one today; it’s just book signings.

Sarah: So if she’s doing a book signing that is not –

Amanda: I think it’s more craft based. I think she’s doing one –

Sarah: Ah.

Amanda: – with, like, Christine Feehan, and they’re, like, talking about the longevity of their series –

Sarah: Series, yeah.

Amanda: – where the stuff – so I’m just excited to be in her orbit, I guess.

Sarah: Christine Feehan wrote – [laughs] – the angry vegans.

Amanda: Oh, we talked about this!

Sarah: I’m just telling you about –

Elyse: What?!

Sarah: I started rereading Dark Prince.

Elyse: Okay?

Sarah: It’s by Christine Feehan, right?

Elyse: Yeah?

Sarah: The Carpathians, right? So, it’s the first –

Elyse: Yeah.

Sarah: – it’s the first Carpathian book. It’s a little off the wall, and I remember how well it worked on me when I read it the first time, because I had never read anything like that. It was one of the first paranormal, like, super passionate, alternate vampire –

Elyse: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – telling stories that I had read. But – [sighs] – it kind of goes off the rails, and as I look at it now, I’m like, there’s some major ethical and consent issues here that I’m really not comfortable with, and I sort of think, wow, my reading really has changed. [Laughs] I’m having epic silliness –

Elyse: Yeah.

Sarah: – with angry, vegan Carpathians.

Elyse: I remember when I went through my paranormal romance phase, ‘cause I kind of, like, I got into the Anita Blake series when she wasn’t fucking anyone yet in the series?

Sarah: Me, too.

Amanda: That came way early.

Elyse: Yeah.

Sarah: And she was a bad dresser, and she’d be like, I put on my black jeans and my neon socks and my neon green polo shirt.

Elyse: She always had a fucking fanny pack! Yes!

Sarah: And my fanny pack and my sneakers!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Ohhh my God!

Elyse: The fi-, the fanny pack, yeah. I –

[Laughter]

Elyse: The thing about the Anita Blake books was she’s always going on and on about, like, how she was really short. She was, like, 5’3” but, like, still attractive, and I remember because I’m, like, 5’1” reading this. I’m probably in my teens thinking, like, am I not supposed to be? This wasn’t a concern before I read your books, and now I’m really worried about it! I thought I was doing okay, Laurell K. Hamilton. Thanks a lot! So, yeah, that was, like, right around, before she was boning everyone, so I wasn’t –

[Laughter]

Elyse: I was looking for books with vampires but also boning, and I started reading, I started reading Amanda Ashley. Did you read any of her?

Amanda: I, see, I thought you would say, I started reading Amanda’s fanfiction. [Laughs]

Elyse: Well, that too. So –

Sarah: That came much later.

Elyse: So Amanda Ashley is, like, the perfect paranormal writer.

Amanda: Amanda Ashley isn’t me, but –

[Laughter]

Elyse: No, it’s not. You would have been, like, eight at the time these books came out.

Amanda: I could’ve been a very talented writer.

Elyse: I’m picturing, like, your little Fisher Price typewriter banging it out, getting that novel out there into the world.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Oh God. So Amanda Ashley was, like, the perfect writer for that age, because I was, like an emo teen, pre-teen kind of.

Amanda: Weren’t we all? [Laughs]

Elyse: Right. But she opened all of her own books with, like, her own poem about, like – [laughs] – darkness, so it just, like, I was like, I can do this? This is a job? I can write vampire romance novels and put my own poetry in the front?

Sarah: Hell yes!

Elyse: And then there was one book that came, it was two novellas packaged as the same book. I probably still have this in the basement, ‘cause it was so epic. I think we featured it on Cover Snark. This guy – so it was a two, like, it was Sunlight, Moonlight, and the guy on Sunlight, like, had this crazy lantern jaw? Like –

[Laughter]

Amanda: Like an angler, like a deep sea angler fish?

Elyse: Like – [laughs] – let me find this for you. It, it looks like someone made Lord Farquaad, like, an actual person.

[Laughter]

Elyse: But anyway, so it was Sunlight, Moonlight; Moonlight was the vampire romance, and then Sunlight was this alien romance, which was really, really, really weird, and it blew my little mind. I don’t even know what started that story.

Amanda: I’m not even sure what’s – oh, we were talking about vampire romances.

Elyse: Check out this guy!

Sarah: Whoooa!

Elyse: Right?

Sarah: [Laughs] His head is, like, his face is square.

Amanda: [Laughs] It’s like a spiral-cut ham. It’s really meaty!

[Laughter]

Elyse: There’s like – yeah.

Sarah: Oh, your head is like a spiral-cut ham!

Amanda: He’s got, like, he’s, like, dense!

Elyse: It’s, like, got face muscles that don’t exist!

Amanda: It’s got, like –

[Laughter]

Amanda: ‘Cause it has, like, heft to it!

Sarah: It’s got, like, yeah, heft, like he has pork chops in his jaw.

Elyse: So I used to listen to audiobooks at work all the time, but I had to get the CDs from the library – remember that was a thing?

Amanda: I get bummed out, ‘cause sometimes I want to get an audiobook straight from my library, but I’m a millennial; I don’t own anything that has a CD drive anymore!

[Laughter]

Elyse: The guy who narrated that, I had to stop it because it was, it sounded like Alfred from Batman.

Amanda: Michael Caine!

Elyse: No, no, no, the old Batman. Michael –

Amanda: Oh no! [Laughs]

Elyse: The 1992 Batman! Whatever year it was. The original Alfred, not Jeremy Irons or Michael Caine. Like –

Amanda: Michael –

Elyse: – the little, stooped-over old guy.

Amanda: Was Batman Michael Keaton?

Elyse: Yeah.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: That was my favorite Batman.

Amanda: Ooh, Val Kilmer was my favorite Batman.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Why?

Amanda: Yeah, and then he played the villain in MacGruber.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And that was a real wake-up call.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Why Val Kilmer? That was such a terrible movie!

Amanda: Well, I – the first Val Kilmer movie I ever saw was Real Genius?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And so I just kind of had a huge crush on –

Sarah: Oh, that was it right there.

Amanda: – Val – oh no, Sarah! What are you doing?

Sarah: Nothing. [Laughs]

Amanda: You’re embarrassing me!

Elyse: [Laughs]

Sarah: You think I’m recording you? I am recording you!

Amanda: I thought you were speaking of video!

Sarah: Oh no, no, no. [Laughs] Oh God.

Amanda: And you were talking about Val Kilmer, yeah, ‘cause you’re, he wears, like, crop tops and, like, really tiny bike shorts in Real Genius, and he plays, like, this hot, bad-boy, smart kid.

Elyse: In a crop top! [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s in the ‘80s!

Amanda: It’s, it takes place in the ‘80s!

Elyse: I’m sorry!

Amanda: It’s a sleeveless crop top that was in, I think, yellow? I remember it very well.

Elyse: This just keeps getting better. I’m getting more aroused, like, the further you go.

Amanda: You should!

Elyse: Add fanny pack to that.

Amanda: He might actually wear a fanny pack!

Sarah: Oh my gosh!

Elyse: Oh God.

Amanda: None of you have seen it?

Elyse: No!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I have, but I don’t remember that crop top and biking shorts.

Amanda: Do you remember the popcorn at the end?

Sarah: Nooo.

Amanda: That is, like, the climax of the movie!

Sarah: The – I don’t remember; I’m sorry!

Amanda: The smart kids are building a laser for their project, but turns out it’s really for the government, and the government steals their laser?

[Laughter]

Elyse: This is – no.

Sarah: That’s not Weird Science!

Elyse: She’s –

Amanda: No, Real Genius!

Sarah: Oh!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Oh my God!

Amanda: Not Weird Science!

Elyse: Didn’t you also have a crush on the asshole with the mullet from Stranger Things?

Amanda: Wait, that was a low blow, Elyse!

Elyse: No, I’m not making fun of you. I just –

Amanda: I thought I, I thought I had shared that to you in private!

Elyse: I just think you have a type, and it might be mullets! And wispy little mustaches!

[Laughter]

Amanda: Like the Westworld Confederado!

Sarah: What are you talking about?

Elyse: Oh God. Yeah, the one I think I recognize.

Amanda: Billy, Stranger Things? Val Kilmer, who is definitely a douchebag in that movie.

Elyse: [Laughs] Oh my God.

Sarah: Recently, Amanda and I did a podcast where we talked about how bad we are at watching TV –

Elyse: Right.

Sarah: – and one of the things we talked about was where some of our catnip and anti-catnip comes from, like, how we were deeply scarred by television shows?

Elyse: Okay?

Sarah: Were you ever, did you ever connect your reading to a television show that you used to watch or find your catnip in really old stuff that you used to enjoy?

Elyse: Yeah, ‘cause, like, I remember when I – man, I was probably too young to watch the movie. I got my hands on La Femme Nikita, the movie, not the TV show, and then the TV show came out and, like –

Sarah: I love the TV show.

Elyse: – there was – right, ‘cause you were waiting for them to hook up! That was the only reason I was watching!

Sarah: Yeah!

Elyse: And her amazing outfits.

Sarah: Oh, Peta Wilson was awesome, awesome in that. I remember when I, when I was old enough to know I wanted to watch TV, but I wasn’t old enough to watch some of these shows, it seemed to me like so much of the hour dramas were based on the idea of some kind of relationship either starting or as part of, like, fighting crime and shit. So you had Remington Steele and Scarecrow and Mrs. King and Hart to Hart. You had all of these shows –

Amanda: They have that, like, plot thread that’s like will-they/won’t-they –

Sarah: Yes, there’s –

Amanda: – with, like, two characters –

Elyse: Moonlighting?

Sarah: Moonlighting, X-Files – although my theory with The X-Files is that after the first two episodes they were always together, they were always hooking up, and what they were doing was hiding it from the viewer.

Elyse: Gillian Anderson’s a badass.

Sarah: She’s glorious. Absolutely glorious.

Elyse: I remember when Lois & Clark came out, like –

Sarah: The television show?

Elyse: Yeah. That was my catnip too.

Sarah: How – I was never into that one.

Elyse: ‘Cause I wanted –

Sarah: Is that the one that, with the, with the, with the actress who later on went to be a Desperate Housewife?

Elyse: She did. He became Dean Cain, which was disappointing to everyone.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Dean Cain’s, Dean Cain high point was playing Scott Peterson for the Lifetime channel. [Laughs]

Amanda: Right?

Elyse: When you, when you play the guy they based Gone Girl off of, and that’s like, yeah. God. Sorry. No, Lois & Clark too.

Sarah: That was your catnip?

Elyse: Because, like, I think two things that I didn’t realize was my catnip: I liked him when he was Clark, so I think I just do a beta hero a lot of the time.

Sarah: I always was more interested in Clark.

Elyse: And the glasses.

Amanda: I was thinking about this last night. You mentioned, like, your attraction to Clark was, like, his beta cuteness, and I was thinking about, like, really hot, like, villains as I was trying to go to sleep and why, like, I love a, a mean dude with an eye patch.

Elyse: Do you have, like, any villain heroes that you like? ‘Cause that’s not your thing at all.

Sarah: Oh.

Amanda: Not even Darth Maul?

Sarah: No!

Elyse: [Laughs] Why him specifically?

Amanda: I don’t know! There’s something about the double-bladed light saber that I was just like, ooh, that’s doing it for me! [Laughs]

Sarah: No, the, the villain thing doesn’t always work on me, because I’m too rational, and I’m, and I’m always like, why don’t you just, God damn it, make better choices?

Amanda: What about Lee Pace as that sexy elf king?

[Laughter]

Amanda: That movie?

Sarah: I never saw that one.

Amanda: Ooh, he rides a giant moose! I –

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s, that’s, and that’s villainy. You like he rides a moose.

Amanda: He’s a bit of an asshole in that.

Elyse: But he looks exactly like the guy on the Pestilence cover.

Amanda: Yeah, I saw that cover.

Elyse: Like, that’s –

Amanda: I don’t have a problem with the cover!

Elyse: No, no, it’s clearly fan art. Ohhh.

Amanda: Or that weird elf-vampire in Hellboy II? You didn’t get into that? Anyone know what I’m talking –

Elyse: I have no idea –

Amanda: Someone help me!

Elyse: – what you’re talking about.

[Laughter]

Elyse: I remember, and I know people were talking about this on Twitter, when I was a kid, we used to watch The Sound of Music, and I always thought, like, Captain von Trapp was, like, really scary and angry, and then you hit an age where you’re like, oh, wait a minute!

Amanda: It makes, it all makes sense now!

Elyse: Sense now! [Laughs] Please tear down the Nazi flag again, Christopher Plummer.

Amanda: I like Christoph Waltz. He’s a silver fox that I am really appreciative of.

Elyse: I like all, I think, British villains. It’s the, the voice.

Sarah: You watched Jessica Jones, the first season, right?

Elyse: Oh, David Tennant!

Sarah: Yeah.

Elyse: He plays, like, like, a very –

Sarah: Kilgrave, right?

Elyse: Yeah, but he’s really, really good at playing, like, a psychopath, like, enough that you’re like, I’m actually kind of afraid.

Sarah: Yeah. Like, wide eyes, like, yes, of course we’re going to do these heinous things!

Elyse: He actually just did a horror movie, like, where he’s a serial killer, and they said, like, the, he was, like, so good at being a creepy serial killer, like, members of the crew were like, eh, we don’t like him.

[Laughter]

Elyse: We don’t like it. Yeah. No, David Tennant is very sexy.

Sarah: He is. I just, I can’t do villains. Villains don’t –

Elyse: Like, Jeremy Irons could still come get it for sure. No, no problem.

Amanda: Well, like, in terms of Myers-Briggs, which I know many people think is bullshit, I’m the nurturer, and a lot of my past relationships are all built on “I can fix you! Stop being so sad!” And that’s not the case –

Elyse: I’m the one that, I’m the one that’s like way in, like, the, like, high left corner where, like, Stalin and other very alarming people are?

Sarah: What, fuck off, leave me alone?

Elyse: I think I’m an INTJ.

Amanda: I’m an INFJ. Come on, Sarah, you remember this.

Sarah: I don’t remember if I’m INFP or INFJ. I was definitely INF. I was INF all the way.

Amanda: You’re an I, right?

Elyse: Yeah.

Amanda: That makes sense.

Elyse: That’s shocking.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I was, when I remember in a college, like, freshman sort of semi-orientation class, like Freshman Orientation: The Course was –

Amanda: I had to do it for my advertising class.

Sarah: Bleah. So they had us do the Myers-Briggs test, and it was the first time I’d ever taken it, but I remember scoring on introvert and, like, no one in the class believed me that I was an introvert, and I was like, no, I need to be by myself! I, I like quiet! I don’t – no! I need to get away from all of these people!

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: Very introverted.

Elyse: Sometimes I come home from work, and I tell Rich, like, I need thirty minutes of absolute silence, not because I don’t love you. I just like, I can’t, I can’t handle anyone talking at me anymore today.

Sarah: I’ve had people –

Amanda: I mention that I work from home, and I was asked if I miss having human contact.

Elyse: No.

Sarah: No!

Elyse: No.

Amanda: And I said, not really! [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh no! I, I am so fortunate that I have the ability to opt out of workplace culture and dealing with terrible people and sexist shitbaggery? Like, I am really lucky that I can not have to do that.

Elyse: So no villains; like, none.

Sarah: No, I really don’t think there are any where –

Amanda: Not a one! I feel like there’s always, like, an exception.

Elyse: I feel like we need to read off, like, a list of all movie villains till we find one.

Sarah: Go ahead!

Amanda: I’m sure there’s a wiki page on there.

Sarah: What, all of –

Amanda: No Di-, no Disney villains?

Sarah: No!

Elyse: Skeletor?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: [Skeletor laugh]

Sarah: I’m really thinking about that villain question now, and I’m like, I really don’t think there are any –

Elyse: Nobody.

Amanda: You are going to sit up straight at, like, 4 a.m., and it’s just going to –

Sarah: No!

Amanda: – pop into your brain as you’re like, drip – maybe you got up to the use the bathroom –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – and you’re getting settled back in bed.

Sarah: It’ll be Gargamel from The Smurfs.

Amanda: [Laughs] That’s a poor choice, but I’m not going to judge you.

Elyse: Right, we’re not going to –

Amanda: There’re so many better options!

Sarah: I don’t, I really don’t think villains are a thing!

Amanda: Do you, have you seen Idris Elba in Luther? He’s kind of an anti-hero. Might be like Villain Lite.

Elyse: And we’re, I’m willing to go into, like, anti-hero for you. Ooh, no, this is not good. [Laughs] I’ve just googled popular movie villains, thinking I would get, like –

Amanda: ‘Bout the Phantom from The Phantom of the Opera.

Elyse: Right, and instead it’s like Mike Myers, Norman Bates!

Amanda: [Laughs] No!

Elyse: It’s, it’s like, not, like, Sauron, Darth Vader.

Sarah: No, I don’t want to have any kind of interest in Sauron.

Elyse: The Joker. [Laughs]

Amanda: What about, who’s the villain in the Cars movies?

Sarah: Michael Keaton is the other car.

Amanda: Was he a bad car? [Laughs]

Elyse: She doesn’t like any of the tall, skinny, British villains. We’ve discussed this.

Sarah: No, it’s not really does any-, does anything for me.

Amanda: What do – I also have, like, a weird thing for Beetlejuice.

Elyse: What a-, what about the fact that Benedict Cumberbatch now is saying he won’t do any movies –

Amanda: She’s not in-, she’s not into Benedict.

Sarah: Bandersnatch Cummerbund?

Elyse: You didn’t hear that?

Sarah: I did hear it. It’s great, but he does nothing for me. I think his –

Elyse: Dracula.

Sarah: – I think his eyes are too far apart.

Elyse: Yeah, he, yeah.

Sarah: He’s got, like, snake head.

Elyse: Patrick Bateman.

Sarah: No.

Elyse: Gollum?

[Laughter]

Sarah: No! God!

Elyse: General Zod.

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: Come on!

Elyse: He’s from Superman!

Amanda: Didn’t, I’m sure Adam had a goatee like that.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Oh, Adam had a goatee, but he was never – who is that?

Amanda: General Zod!

Elyse: General Zod from Superman!

Amanda: Superman!

Sarah: General Zod, nope. General Zod never did it for me. I’m a very boring consumer of romantic fiction.

Elyse: Loki, Magneto, or Goldfinger.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Oh my God! Lord Voldemort, maybe?

Sarah: No! God!

Elyse: We’re going to get here, even if we have to read this whole list of bad guys!

Sarah: Have you ever heard this guy who –

Amanda: Heath Ledger’s The Joker.

Sarah: I’ve never seen that Batman.

Elyse: This is part of the problem: you don’t watch movies that are scary, so, like, you don’t –

Sarah: [Laughs] No!

Amanda: Cillian, Cillian Murphy in Red Eye with Rachel McAdams.

Elyse: I don’t think I saw that one.

Amanda: You’ve got to – ooh. Elyse, you’ve got to watch it. You would like it.

Elyse: On it. On it.

Sarah: Is it, like, super sexy, and then people pull each other’s eyeballs, eyeballs out of their heads?

Amanda: No.

Sarah: Oh, okay.

Amanda: No. I won’t reveal it.

Elyse: That was a really specific – was there a book like that that I’ve reviewed?

Sarah: [Laughs] No.

Elyse: I feel like, did I review that? And I don’t remember?

Sarah: Eyeballs on Skewers: The Elyse Continuum.

Amanda: The Predator.

Elyse: The alien one with the vagina mouth?

Amanda: Yeah! Is there another Predator?

Elyse: I don’t know. Okay, Scar from The Lion King. We’re reaching here.

Sarah: No! [Laughs]

Amanda: God damn it. Hmm. I put, like, great pop culture villains.

Elyse: Yeah, I’m getting, like, the shark from Jaws.

Amanda: I got, I got that creepy girl from The Ring. It’s like, that’s not what I’m looking for!

Elyse: Hey, look, Darth Maul’s on here. You’re vindicated.

Amanda: And, yeah, see?

Elyse: [Laughs] I’m sorry I doubted you!

Amanda: What about Angelina Jolie as Maleficent? Those cheekbones didn’t –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: Nothing?

Sarah: No.

Elyse: What about the cartoon Maleficent?

Sarah: Oh, no.

Elyse: Boba Fett?

Amanda: Gordon –

[Laughter]

Amanda: Gordon Gecko!

Sarah: What?!

Elyse: I thought you were going to say Gordon Ramsay, and I was like, wow!

Sarah: No!

Amanda: What about Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget?

[Laughter]

Amanda: He had a really good voice.

Sarah: No? [Laughs]

Amanda: Oh man.

Sarah: There really are no villain heroes that –

Elyse: Megatron?

Sarah: Who? [Laughs] Oh my –

Amanda: Transformers.

Sarah: No!

Amanda: Khan!

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh good heavens!

Elyse: Shredder from the Ninja Turtles.

[Laughter]

Amanda: The shark from Jaws!

Elyse: Penguin from the 1960s Batman.

Sarah: No!

Amanda: What about Tom Hardy as Bane?

Sarah: No?

Amanda: Did you see that Batman?

Sarah: No?

Amanda: Ugh! HAL 9000 is on this list.

[Laughter]

Sarah: These are not villain heroes that I really dig, no.

Elyse: Severus Snape.

Amanda: Oooh!

Sarah: No, I, I find, I find him to be –

Amanda: I’m more of a Lu-, Lucius Malfoy, if we’re going silver foxes.

Sarah: You know his wife dominates him –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – all the time.

Elyse: Amanda’s like, why do you think we’re talking about him?

Amanda: Why do you think we’re here right now?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Biff from Back to the Future.

Sarah: What?! No!

Amanda: He’s like a, an asshole! Woof! Ooh, I can –

Elyse: Girlfriend Biff.

Amanda: Ivan Drago from Rocky IV; that’s a good one for me.

Elyse: [Laughs] God!

Amanda: I was super into that. J. R. Ewing? Eh?

Sarah: No, J. R. never really did it for me.

Amanda: Apollo Creed.

Sarah: No. No, Apollo Creed never did it for me either.

Amanda: Bowser.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Bowser from Mario Brothers?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: What is the next one? Like, a Goomba?

Amanda: No. It’s, a professional wrestler is the next one.

Elyse: Gaston.

Amanda: What? Who’s that?

Sarah: Gaston from –

Elyse and Sarah: – Beauty and the Beast!

Sarah: Nooo!

Amanda: I heard, I heard Goose-ton, and it’s like, I don’t know that word.

Sarah: [Singing] No one fights like Gaston. [Talking] All right.

Amanda: What about the Thomas Jane version of the Punisher?

Elyse: I’m sure she’s watched that many times.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Ohhh, no.

Elyse: A lot of Jack Nicholson characters show up on here.

Amanda: Yeah, that makes sense.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Who the hell is Shooter McGavin?

Amanda: Shooter McGavin! He was in Happy Gilmore, wasn’t he? Or Billy Madison?

Sarah: The price is wrong, bitch!

Amanda: I still – one of those two? I don’t remember!

Elyse: David Bowie from Labyrinth.

Sarah: No, he’s not it for me.

Elyse: God damn it!

Amanda: I, I just remembered – I’m going through this list – I just – [laughs] – remembered that I revealed privately to Elyse on Slack, maybe like a month and a half ago –

Elyse: [Laughs]

Amanda: – that I was sexually attracted to the new Pennywise!

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh my God!

Amanda: I don’t even know in what context that was revealed.

Elyse: I feel like we share, we share our alarming, like, dark romance sexual attractions.

Sarah: “I’m sexually attracted to Pennywise.”

Amanda: It was – [laughs] – the new one. I want to clarify –

Elyse: Oh.

Amanda: – the new one, not the Tim Curry one. The, the Skarsgård brother one. I –

Sarah: I don’t think that helps.

Elyse: It’s because I told you I felt guilty that I was attracted to Loki, and –

Amanda: Oh. [Laughs]

Elyse: – and you were like –

Amanda: I just shat all over that. I was like, buckle up! Listen to this!

Elyse: Oh my God! [Laughs]

Amanda: ‘Bout to drop a bombshell. [Laughs] Man, I got nothing for Sarah! I just –

Elyse: I know!

Amanda: I’m – you guys, help us. We need to just tweet at Sarah. Bring all of your suggestions. [Laughs] Oh –

Sarah: I, I don’t have any, any good, really no, no good villain heroes that I’m interested in.

Amanda: What about in video games? What’s that, like, gray-spiky-haired dude in Kingdom Hearts? Not Sora; the bad one. Riku? Is that his name?

Sarah: [Laughs] What?

Amanda: I’m looking at you for a lifeline!

Sarah: I have no idea.

Amanda: No? Nothing. Okay.

Sarah: No idea what you’re talking about.

Amanda: Someone knows. [Laughs]

Sarah: No, I, I don’t do, I don’t do, I’m not really into villains. It’s really weird.

Amanda: I for sure thought –

Amanda and Elyse: – we’d find one.

Elyse: And we’re all looking on our phones now, which also makes for great listening.

Amanda: [Laughs] Guys, if you could only see these search terms. They’re getting me nothing.

Sarah: I do not understand, like, what, what is missing that, that villain heroes don’t work for me. It’s very strange!

Elyse: Because you’re well adjusted.

[Laughter]

Elyse: I mean –

[More laughter]

Sarah: ‘Cause you’re a normal-ish person.

Amanda: That was a, that was a good old self-own there.

Sarah: I’m a normie!

[Laughter]

Elyse: No, I’m with you a hundred percent. Like, it’s, it’s definitely related to, like, unhealthy, unhealthiness. It’s, it’s therapy I have yet to get through.

Amanda: We haven’t touched on that at all. It’s like, things are going great; I’m in a good mood. We don’t need to go any deeper than that.

Elyse: Let me talk to you about Pennywise!

Sarah: [Laughs] My horny Pennywise pants.

Elyse: You, I bet you’d make a killing writing that fanfiction.

Amanda: Just self –

Sarah: I bet I could find you some right now!

Amanda: Just self it, like reader insert and Pennywise, but then I’d have to write it in, what is it, the second POV?

Sarah: Yeah.

Elyse: No! You just, you leave a blank for the name, or now they do this really annoying thing in the fanfictions, the young kids these days, where it’s a Y/N for your name – [laughs] – in self-insert, yeah.

Amanda: It’s like an, it’s like an ASL, but for fanfiction. You remember those old –

Sarah: All right, so what –

Amanda: – eight days.

Sarah: – what fanfic do you read the most? What, what fandoms do you mostly gravitate towards?

Amanda: Oh, I tweeted about this hardcore the other day.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Draco and Hermione are a big one. I’m a Dramione fan; that’s what they’re called.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So do you write the Dramione fanfic?

Amanda: No, I read it. I had a friend in high school who wrote Dramione fanfic. I wrote fanfic in other fandoms, and we’re not going to talk about that! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes, we are! What fandoms did you write fanfic for?

Amanda: Okay, we’ll go in order of least popular to most popular.

[Laughter]

Amanda: There’s only three, there’s only three.

Sarah: What was your screen name?

Amanda: Oh, we’re not revealing that at all!

Sarah: [Laughs] You have to tell us.

Amanda: I don’t, no. Well, if they can narrow it down through these three, I’ll, I’ll admit it if anyone guesses it, okay. So I wrote one story in the Samurai Champloo fandom, which –

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: – is anime, and it’s by the people who did Cowboy Bebop, which is one of my favorite –

Elyse: Oh, yes!

Amanda: Yeah, but this was set in feud-, feudal Japan, so I have one of those.

Sarah: The, tell me the name again?

Amanda: Samurai Champloo. It’s like shampoo, but it’s C-H, and it’s like a P-L-O-O.

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: It’s, it’s got, like, a feudal –

Sarah: Is there a romance in it?

Amanda: There’s a, I thought there was like a, some sexual tension, but there’s no romance. It’s all imagined in my head, pretty much.

Sarah: Oh, that’s fine. That’s the best kind.

Amanda: But it’s got, like, Cowboy Bebop was like space and jazz music, and this is –

Elyse: Yes!

Amanda: – feudal Japan and hip-hop music. So that’s probably the least popular. Then I wrote World of Warcraft fanfiction.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: I played World of Warcraft a lot. [Laughs] Then the worst one is I wrote Naruto fanfiction.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Elyse: I don’t even know what that is!

Amanda: Oh, anime ninja kids!

[Laughter]

Sarah: You’re not even alone in that fandom.

Amanda: No, but, but the worst part is, is I did an original character insert!

Elyse: Was she a Mary Sue? [Laughs]

Amanda: She probably was. It was a love triangle between the eye-patched mentor from the show –

Sarah: Oh my God!

Amanda: – back to the eye patches – or one of the hero, or one of the series’ central villains.

Sarah: Oh God.

Amanda: Which explains everything we have just talked about for the last forty minutes? I don’t know how long we’ve been here.

Elyse: I am so, I am so old that there wasn’t a place to put fanfiction when I was writing fanfiction as a young person, and I had a notebook, and my friend and I would pass the notebook back and forth, and I’d write a chapter, and then she’d write a chapter, and there was, like, literally nowhere online to put this. We had the fanfiction notebook, and my God, if someone had found that, I think we both would have just died.

Amanda: [Laughs] Mr. Elyse Rich, if you’re listening –

Sarah: There was no internet when I was a kid.

Elyse: [Laughs]

Amanda: – check the attic. Do you have an attic? If not, check the basement, or both. I don’t know your situation.

Elyse: Oh man. I don’t think I kept any of ‘em.

Amanda: Oh, I would have held onto those.

Elyse: Those were just, like, the old spiral-bound notebooks about how we were, like –

Amanda: I would have held onto those.

Elyse: – going to meet the Backstreet Boys or something.

Amanda: Ooh. Which one was your favorite?

Elyse: It depended. I started, like, I think I went the popular option first with Nick, and then I picked whatever the oldest one was, which was clearly my orientation when it comes to –

Amanda: Kevin.

Elyse: Yes.

Amanda: That was mine.

Elyse: If you’re not a solid twelve years older than me, I guess I’m just not attracted to you.

Amanda: I was really POed because Brian, Brian Littrell, went to the same church as my cousin.

Elyse: And he couldn’t get you a hookup?

Amanda: Well, she lived in Orlando, and I did not, so – [laughs] – she’d always brag about it. Brian Littrell was four pews in front of me today.

Elyse: [Laughs]

Amanda: Son of a bitch! Probably why I’m not in a church with Brian Littrell!

Elyse: I can’t remember who the other two were, though.

Amanda: Howie, AJ.

Elyse: Oh, that’s right. Okay.

Amanda: Howie’s the one no one liked.

Sarah: Why, though?

Elyse: He was like –

Amanda: He was the boring one! There was no, like, personal-; he was, like, the milquetoast.

Elyse: [Laughs]

Amanda: Then AJ had, like, the go-, the very pencil-thin –

Elyse: Goatee.

Amanda: – goatee, and he had the, he wore the bandana and the trilby on top of each other. It was a popular ‘90s look; Britney Spears did it once, I believe.

Elyse: Yes. Remember when Britney and Justin went to, I think it was, like –

Amanda: Those denim, denim outfits?

[Laughter]

Elyse: I want a romance novel cover where the hero and heroine have matching denim outfits. Oh man.

Sarah: Oh my God.

Elyse: The late ‘90s were such a gift.

Amanda: They were! And I’m bummed out.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Sorry!

Amanda: I’m just –

Sarah: So do you read fanfic?

Amanda: Sometimes. I don’t read it as much as I used to? But I am, I feel like I am of that group where I pick fandoms that don’t exist.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Like, for example, Fargo, season one. I love that season, but I shipped, was it Mr. Numbers? Who, he was the deaf assassin, and the sheriff, who was played by Allison Tolman, ‘cause there was a very charged scene –

Elyse: Okay.

Amanda: – in that season where he’s in a hospital bed, and she’s the sheriff, and he’s done really bad things, but they agree to work together to bring down Billy Bob Thornton.

Elyse: That’s legit.

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse: That’s, yeah.

Amanda: It’s great. But I, after that, I, like, googled obsessively.

Elyse: Nothing?

Amanda: Just my usual sites. I’m, like, trying to search, like, old LiveJournals –

Elyse: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and, like, please, someone, anyone! I will register for the weirdest forum. Whatever will bring me this.

Sarah: So would you just write the fanfic in that case, or did you just want to read it?

Amanda: I mean, I’m, I’m now twenty-nine. I don’t have time for that right now –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – to do. [Laughs] I can bare-, I barely get my work done for Sarah in a timely manner.

Elyse: I like when you’re reading fanfic and it’s, like, really, really, really good, and then it’s like, sorry for the delayed update! I had, like, my high school physics exam, and you’re like –

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh my God!

Elyse: – I am outclassed in writing by a sixteen-year-old.

Sarah: [Laughs] No!

Amanda: And, like, your weekend enjoyment rests solely on them cranking out another chapter.

Elyse: Right! [Laughs]

Amanda: And then they miss their –

Sarah: I don’t give a shit about your finals! Write another chapter!

Elyse: Put your mom on the phone! Put her on the phone!

Amanda: JazzyGirl187 missed her –

[Laughter]

Elyse: Her fanfic update.

Amanda: – her weekly update! What’s happening?

Elyse: I just want to check on her? Oh God.

Sarah: [Laughs] So what fandoms do you read in?

Elyse: Ohhh. I started, like, way back in the day on La Femme Nikita. That was, like, the first one.

Sarah: Ohhh, that was a good show.

Elyse: Yes. I liked –

Amanda: I watched.

Elyse: – I liked The Mentalist a lot, because apparently I’m attracted to con artists, which is not a good instinct either. So –

Sarah: He’s a con artist?

Elyse: In The Mentalist? Yeah.

Sarah: Oh.

Amanda: He’s the blond, blond-haired man?

Elyse: Yeah, the blond-haired Australian guy.

Amanda: Ooh, I didn’t know he was Australian.

Elyse: I know; that makes him, like, a hundred times hotter.

Amanda: I was like, what? You should have led with that!

Elyse: The country that produces the Hemsworths can’t go wrong.

[Laughter]

Elyse: The, one of the Hemsworths was on Westworld, isn’t he?

Amanda: Yeah, he’s the hot, hot security guard. I don’t know his name. He’s been on, like, half of season one. It’s not like –

Elyse: I have no idea.

Amanda: – you see his face once. Don’t remember. He’s, like, beefier than the other ones –

Elyse: Yeah.

Amanda: – do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? He’s like, you couldn’t knock him over if you tried. Like, he’s just, like, dense.

Elyse: I feel like you’ve thought a lot about that.

Amanda: I do!

Sarah: [Laughs] This is Amanda’s theory of Hemsworth density.

Amanda: Yeah. Obviously, least dense is Liam.

Elyse: [Laughs] Right?

Amanda: Liam is the least dense. He just looks like a normal, normal dude.

Elyse: Normal human being?

Amanda: I mean, baseline is just normal. Normal healthy, probably.

Sarah: [Laughs] We’re having an in-depth discussion –

Amanda: And then –

Sarah: – about the density of Hemsworths!

Amanda: – middle dense, middle dense –

Elyse: Middle dense is Chris.

Amanda: – Chris, obviously.

Elyse: Right.

Amanda: He’s got some height and some bulk, but, like, he can’t, I don’t think he can, like, plant himself down in the ground.

Elyse: Right.

Amanda: He can’t get, like, real solid in it.

Elyse: [Laughs] And then there’s the other one.

Amanda: [Laughs] Whose name we don’t know.

Elyse: The third?

Amanda: Daniel?

Elyse: The most dense Hemsworth.

Amanda: Someone send him a plaque. What’s-his-name Hemsworth: The Most Dense.

Elyse: You could cross stitch it for them.

Amanda: Voted Most Dense.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Oh gosh!

Elyse: Oh God!

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: Did you find a villain?

Sarah: Bekah Martinez had to return things, everything with tags after going broke on her Bachelor wardrobe.

Amanda: I don’t know who that is.

Elyse: Whoa!

Sarah: The one with the short hair.

Elyse: The new Bachelorette!

Amanda: Oh!

Elyse: It’s important news.

Sarah: Yeah, well, I figured –

Amanda: Wait, the short-haired one, or the new Bachelorette one?

Elyse: New –

Sarah: She’s the new Bachelorette.

Elyse: – new Bachelorette.

Amanda: That’s not good; that doesn’t bode well. Still not going to recap anything ever again.

Elyse: Oh –

Sarah: Was it too painful?

Amanda: I hated every second of it.

Sarah: Oh no! Why?

Amanda: I hated it. [Laughs] Well, one: it’s not the type of reality TV I would watch? I love, like, a Real Housewives show, but I don’t like a reality/competition show. It makes me very nervous.

Sarah: I don’t like comp-, I don’t like competitions, but I also don’t like people performing their personality disorders. I can’t watch that.

Amanda: See, I get secondhand embarrassment for the shows like Bachelor and Bachelorette, because, like, some of these people are really earnest about what they’re doing?

Sarah: Oh, yeah, they think they’re going to find love in that mess.

Amanda: Whereas, like, Real Housewives, everyone’s pretty much a dumpster fire, and they, like, know it. Like –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – they’re doing this stuff on purpose. Like, they don’t really have a goal, or they’re not trying to win love. [Laughs]

Sarah: Do you have any Real Housewives favorites? Of all of the, there’s Atlanta, and there’s New Jersey and New York.

Amanda: I will rank my favorite franchises in order.

[Laughter]

Sarah: You are just doing the Lord’s work over there!

Amanda: I am.

Sarah: Is this like –

Amanda: And we’re not going to count spin-off series like Vanderpump Rules.

Sarah: Sweet. Is this ranting, ranking the density of Hemsworths? Is this, like, very –

Amanda and Elyse: Yeah.

Amanda: Which I, well, this is which I enjoy the most.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: There’s going to be caveats.

Elyse: This is, this is more subjective.

Amanda: I’m going to settle it, I’m going to settle in for this.

Sarah: Vanderpump Rules.

Amanda: As a spin-off series, does not count.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Okay. The very short-lived, last on the list, is The Real Housewives of D.C. It lasted for one season and featured the Obama White House wedding crashers as one of the couples.

Sarah: Oy.

Amanda: Yeah. And the dude – they’re divorced now, obviously – and the dude rents out an Airbnb in the area with memorabilia from the show, and he sells, like, twenty-dollar T-shirts with, like, his name on it. It’s real sad.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Then Real Housewives of Miami: never really meshed with all the cast members. They had one super-old, old, like, wealthy white woman who was definitely racist, and then the rest were, like, Cuban women and Spanish women and, like – it, it was just a weird fit. This one’s tough. Which one’s next? Real Housewives of –

Sarah: She knows them all. I can’t remember them all.

Amanda: – of Pot-, not Potomac. Real Housewives – we’re going international here – Real Housewives of Vancouver, I believe. There was one bananas woman and a spoiled daughter, and everyone was just very, like, milquetoast-y, just wet-blanket-y. Did, did not like it. Real Housewives of Melbourne: there’s a barrister on there, but she always wears sequin mini dresses. She’s great; her name’s Gina.

Sarah: ‘Kay. That’s not Melbourne, Florida; it’s Melbourne, Australia?

Amanda: Australia. Real Housewives of New Zealand – I think it’s New Zealand [Real Housewives of Auckland].

Sarah: I didn’t know these were things. Did you know these were things?

Elyse: I had no idea. Are you making shit up?

Amanda: No, I am not.

Sarah: She’s making this up; she’s totally fucking with us.

Elyse: I don’t –

Amanda: There was –

Elyse: Like, the, New Zealand’s a fucking country!

Amanda: I think it’s New Zealand. It’s in New Zealand; I don’t know if it’s a, if it’s their capital or not, but I think it’s just New Zealand. One housewife dropped the N word, and I don’t think it got renewed. It was horrific; it was horrific, ‘cause one of the other housewives is a Black woman.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: Yeah. And I just, it’s a bad season. I don’t know if it got renewed, either.

Sarah: Do you want us to look for you? Do you need to know?

Amanda: No.

Sarah: Okay.

Elyse: Okay, so we just had New Zealand.

Amanda: Okay, New Zealand. Now we’re getting into, like, the top ones. Real Housewives of Orange County: it’s the first Real Housewives franchise series, and, or – yeah! It’s been on for, like, thirteen years now? And some seasons are better than others.

Sarah: Are there always new people?

Amanda: No, sometimes they’ll ask the same cast for, like, three seasons, and then they’ll switch it. Next –

Elyse: Lisa Vanderpump’s been on since, like –

Amanda: For a while – .

Elyse: Like, her whole – no, that’s, she’s Beverly Hills.

Amanda: Oh, Beverly Hills, that’s right! Beverly Hills is my next one. Thanks for that segue.

Elyse: You’re welcome.

Amanda: [Laughs] I was in love with what’s-her-name. She was, she has the two model daughters – Yolanda, and her battle with Lyme disease.

Elyse: [Laughs] Everyone has Lyme disease in L.A.

Amanda: And she had the most beautiful fridge. It used to be a, a shower, a, like, a standing shower, and she turned it into a beautiful refrigerator that has this huge glass door. It’s, seriously, watch, watch that for just the refrigerator.

Elyse: Can you imagine the, like, how, like, you don’t have enough to do that you have, your fucking refrigerator has to be aesthetically pleasing at all times. ‘Cause, like, if you have a total glass door, you can’t just throw all your –

Amanda: And she has, like, an orchard of lemon trees.

Elyse: Like, you can’t just put your leftovers and shit in there. I wouldn’t be able to do that.

Amanda: That big old – yeah, it, it’s always, like, artfully arranged in that fridge.

Elyse: Right! So now you’ve got to fucking arrange your fridge cabin –

Sarah: It’s like cabinets with glass fronts.

Elyse: Ugh, no.

Amanda: Okay, we’re, we’re almost done, I promise.

Elyse: Sor-, I’m sorry! [Laughs]

Amanda: No! Real Housewives of Dallas: first season is a bit of a snooze fest, but I’ll never get tired of these Southern women telling fart and poop jokes –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – which they love to do. Real Housewives of Potomac: also a stupid snooze fest the first season, but it’s so good –

Sarah: Like, Potomac, Maryland?

Amanda: Yeah, Potomac. There’s one woman who is just, she calls her husband the Black Bill Gates.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: Like, she thinks she’s the most important person, and, like, she, like, moved out of Potomac and didn’t want to tell anyone. I don’t know; anyway. [Laughs] Real Housewives of New York is my, my second. Really good. Ramona Singer is bananas. Dorinda Medley is a sweetheart. Princess Carole Radziwill’s on it. And the top one – and it’s a huge caveat – only the first three seasons of The Real Housewives of New Jersey.

Elyse: You forgot Atlanta!

Amanda: Oh shit!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Have to start over!

Amanda: No, I know where Atlanta goes; Atlanta’s third.

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: I think that’s the first one that I really got addicted to, was watching Atlanta. Okay, thank you, Elyse. I knew exactly where it went. And then the first one is the first three seasons of Real Housewives of New Jersey.

Sarah: Why the just fir-, first three? Is that the one with –

Amanda: Danielle Staub? Yes.

Sarah: No.

Elyse: Teresa What’s-her-face.

Amanda: Teresa’s –

Sarah: Giudice? No. The woman with the really big, who’s really big and really tall and has really big lips? Big Ang.

Amanda: No, that’s Mob Wives; that’s on VH1; that’s a whole ‘nother network.

[Laughter]

Amanda: She has since passed away – R.I.P. Big Ang.

Sarah: Big Ang died?

Elyse: She died?

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse and Sarah: Aww!

Sarah: My God, that’s so sad!

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse: I only saw, like, the first couple of seasons of Beverly Hills, and I binge-washed it – binge-washed it –

Amanda: Binge-watched.

[Laughter]

Amanda and Elyse: Binge-watched –

Elyse: – it right after I had my surgery when I had my ovary out? So I was also on, like, a whole fuckton of pen, pain medication watching it.

Amanda: That makes sense.

Elyse: Yeah.

Sarah: So why the first three seasons specifically?

Amanda: That’s when there was the most tension?

Sarah: Between whom?

Amanda: Danielle Staub and Teresa. In the very first season, she calls Danielle Staub – content warning? I guess we’re – she doesn’t call her Content Warning, but I’m letting – [New Jersey-ish accent] a prostitution whore! And chose to flip a table at a very nice Italian restaurant.

[Laughter]

Amanda: And she calls Danielle a prostitution whore in front of her two daughters, who are also attending this dinner.

Elyse: [Laughs]

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: A prostitution whore, yeah. Actually, I might even just say the first two seasons. Anymore, anymore Real Housewives reality – there’s also Mob Wives Chicago.

[Laughter]

Amanda: If you were curious. That lasted not very long.

Elyse: How, how are they, like, owning up to being mob wives? I feel like that’s not something you’re supposed to disclose on television.

Amanda: One is like – or some of ‘em were, like, daughters, like Sammy, Sammy the Bull’s daughter was on the original one.

Elyse: Right, but they’re not, like, doing mafia shit on TV, right? [Laughs]

Amanda: No! But they’re like, they’re like personalities built somewhat on, like –

Sarah: Being connected to the mafia.

Amanda: – being connected to the mob.

Sarah: I see.

Amanda: Mob doctors? That could be a thing!

Elyse: That could be a thing!

Sarah: Yeah, like the intro could be done by the actress who played Dr. Melfi on Sopranos.

Amanda: I never watched The Sopranos.

Elyse:  I never watched Sopranos either.

Sarah: This, the foundation of the show –

Amanda: See, we’re all just making references to things that the other two has no clue what they’re talking about.

Sarah: We’re all in our own universes. The Sopranos’ first season, the, the base conceit of it was that Tony Soprano, who was a mobster, though he tells his therapist that he is in the waste management business, goes to therapy because he’s having anxiety.

Amanda: Is he a villain?

Sarah: They’re all villains; they’re in the Mob.

Amanda: That you, no, that you would get into?

Sarah: No, I never was – I, I really am not into the villainy.

Elyse: God damn it, we’re going to find one.

Amanda: Yeah. There’s got to be one.

Sarah: I’m okay with some characters who are in the gray area where you don’t know exactly how bad they are, but they’re comfortable in –

Elyse: We’re getting warmer.

[Laughter]

Elyse: Can you give us an example we can work from?

Amanda: Well, I saw you tweeting about how the animated fox Robin Hood is attractive.

Sarah: Oh, he’s a dreamboat! I stand by that, and –

Amanda: He’s an anti-hero, I would say.

Elyse: I don’t think –

Sarah: No, he’s absolutely the hero.

Amanda: He’s still doing something illegal, Sarah.

Sarah: Yes, but it’s demonstrated –

Amanda: It’s illegal.

Sarah: – that the, that the legal authority of that kingdom is an idiot.

Amanda: Oh, so you’re willing to bend the rules for a hot anthropomorphic fox man –

Sarah: Wouldn’t you?

Amanda: – who’s good at archery.

Sarah: And also –

Amanda: Hey, my morals aren’t in the question. We’ve already discussed that I was into Darth Maul.

Elyse: Right. No, we –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s true.

Elyse: – we thoroughly know where Amanda and I stand.

Sarah: Yeah.

Elyse: Yeah.

Amanda: What about David Bowie in –

Elyse: We talked about David Bowie.

Amanda: – as, as, as –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: No?

Sarah: No, because –

Amanda: Not in the Labyrinth?

Sarah: – when there’s consistent choices to always do the wrong thing, I lose interest ‘cause it’s boring. But if there’s somebody who’s like –

Amanda: Don’t you want to know why they’re doing the wrong thing?

Elyse: Maybe you can fix them!

Amanda: You could fix him.

Sarah: I’m not interested in fixing –

Amanda: Trust me! You can fix him!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I, I don’t think I can, and I’m not interested. I’m too tired to do that much labor. I was never into the fixing; I was always into the secret. Like, if the guy is connected to a secret world and I know about it, now that is always going to be my catnip.

Amanda: Uh, Jareth, hello!

Sarah: No, he’s, he’s –

Amanda: He runs that secret world!

Sarah: Yeah –

Elyse: Did I tell you about the Goblin King book I started?

Amanda: Shona Husk? That Goblin King?

Elyse: I don’t think so.

Amanda: It’s literally called The Goblin King.

Elyse: This one’s called The Goblin King too, and it was, like, clearly –

Amanda: Like The Goblin King II: Electric Boogaloo?

[Laughter]

Elyse: Yes, that was actually the book!

Amanda: The Squeakquel!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I just want you guys to know that I had to go see The Squeakquel.

Amanda: Oh no!

Sarah: That was bad. You know what else is pretty fucking terrible? G-nomeo & Juliet.

Elyse: Oh Jesus.

Amanda: Oh, that’s right! You just said G-nomeo?

Sarah: I did!

Amanda: Isn’t it supposed to be Nomeo?

Elyse: No, because –

Sarah: It was bad, so it’s G-nomeo.

Amanda: G-nomeo, okay.

Sarah: G-nomeo and Guliet.

Elyse: Yeah, it is Shona Husk. So I started it, and I barely got into it. I was hoping for some David Bowie action, and, like, the heroine wakes up in the goblin caves after they’ve kidnapped her, and, like, there’s an Evian water dispenser in there, and it just, like, shattered the magic for me. [Laughs]

Amanda: Did you ever read Wintersong?

Elyse: No, I haven’t, and I’m really excited for it.

Amanda: Do that. That’s got a, a Goblin King.

Elyse: I’m all about the Goblin King.

Amanda: Set in, like, historic Bavaria, so no Evian water dispensers.

Elyse: Super embarrassing confession, as long as we’re, we’re on this track: in the Anita, not the Anita Blake books. Who was the other one? Meredith Gentry?

Amanda: Yeah, Merry Gentry. That was even, like, that was sex straight out the gate. Like, you didn’t even have to wait two books, ‘cause, like, page five? Yeah. We’re, we’re there.

Elyse: [Laughs] My favorite out of all of ‘em was the guy with the tentacle stomach, because he was so tragic!

Amanda: [Gasps] Yeah, he was mine too!

Sarah: Sholto.

Elyse: Yes!

Amanda: Mine too! ‘Cause he was, like, the villainous, like, bad-boy, I’ll-never-be-loved-‘cause-I’m-a-weirdo.

Elyse: [Laughs] Yes!

Amanda: Yes!

Elyse: I’ve got stomach tentacles, and I remember when, like, she finally slept with him and it turned into a tattoo or something. Like, that was the one place that Laurell Hamilton would not go was tentacle penetration. [Laughs]

Amanda: She had to draw a line. My second favorite was, like, the icy dude.

Sarah: Frost?

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse: I think he’s, I think, yeah, that was just his name, like, Frost.

Amanda: Yeah. I knew ice had something to do with it. I made it as far as, what is it, Mistral’s Kiss was the last one I read?

Elyse: That sounds –

Amanda: He did, he did, like, storm and, like, thunder magic, I think. [Laughs] I could be making that up.

Elyse: Didn’t Frost get, like, turned into a stag or something for a while?

Amanda: Yeah, I think he peaced out a little bit. And I don’t blame him.

Elyse: [Laughs] It was always like Meredith Gentry’s gang bang, fairy bad, bad, boy band.

Sarah: She had to have sex in order to get pregnant, so she basically had sex every day and night.

Amanda: Yeah. To, like, replace her, like, evil –

Sarah: Aunt.

Amanda: Yeah.

Elyse: I would get, like, so chafed.

Amanda: I think that’s why – so that was the – I read those –

Sarah: Did that –

Amanda: – before Anita Blake, and that’s, I think that might be why I’m so into, like, fairy stuff in my romances. Give me, like, a Fae hero –

Sarah: Fairy stuff in your romances?

Amanda: Give me a Fae hero any day of the week.

Elyse: Did you read – ugh, it’s going to drive me nuts, and it’s really –

Amanda: The Cruel Prince.

Elyse: No, it’s older than that. It’s going to take me a while to find it on my Goodreads. I apologize.

Amanda: We’ll go back to Lee Pace as that hot, frosty Elf King. We can think about that while Elyse searches. I don’t even remember his name.

Elyse: [Laughs] Are we talking about The Hobbit again?

Amanda: Yeah, we are. Did, did you see it?

Elyse: I know what you’re talking about!

Amanda: I’ll show Sarah. I might be – I mean, is he a villain? He’s kind of a douche.

Elyse: He rides a moose!

Sarah: Wait, there was a, there was a Merry Gentry novel in 2014!

Amanda: Mmm, that’s still going! Well. Isn’t Laurell K. Hamil-, isn’t Anita Blake still going?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: It has longevity. Thranduil is –

Elyse: [Laughs] He’s the hot Elvenking?

Amanda: Yeah!

Elyse: This ep-, this episode is going to require a lot of editing.

Amanda: He was my cover pho-, the, him on the moose was my cover photo on Facebook for a long time.

Elyse: I mean, I’ve got to admit that a guy that can tame a moose is pretty hot.

Amanda: That doesn’t do it for you?

Sarah: No.

Elyse: What’s going on with his hair?

Amanda: He’s an elf, so there are branches in it!

Elyse: I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry!

Amanda: He’s also wearing a circlet into battle. Something a little more understated. I have –

Elyse: [Laughs] It’s specifically his battle circlet.

Amanda: [Laughs] Someone has turned Lee Pace into Edward from Breaking Dawn in this Photoshop.

Sarah: Nooo.

Elyse: Oh, that’s really creepy.

Amanda: I’ll save it. Let me put it in the show notes. I don’t know when I’m going to need this again.

Elyse: [Laughs] Oh God. I’m still looking for that fairy book, by the way.

Amanda: Was it explicit?

Elyse: No, it’s a YA series, although the second book gets kinda steamy.

Amanda: Is it the Holly, is it the fairy, Tithe –

Elyse: No.

Amanda: – Holly Black series? It’s like a girl and her mom?

Elyse: No. This is like, girl finds out she’s the Summer Queen.

Amanda: The Iron King?

Elyse: I don’t think so.

Amanda: By Julie Kagawa?

Sarah: No, it’s Melissa Marr. She finds out she’s the Summer Queen?

Elyse: Right.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s the first Melissa Marr book, I think.

Elyse: I will find out soon. Still scrolling.

Amanda: Wicked Lovely?

Elyse: Yes.

Amanda: Sarah, look at you!

[music]

Sarah: It’s always good to end an episode with me experiencing the rare occurrence of remembering something. I hope you enjoyed that episode, as silly and goofy as it was. I laughed a lot recording it, and I laughed a lot editing it, and I hope you also laughed a lot, ‘cause laughter is very good for you.

This episode was brought to you by Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane. Beau Petty has been searching his whole life. What he was not searching for was a woman to claim all of him, but Cora Silvera walks back into his life, and he is ready to search out all of the ways that he can make her his. Cora has spent her life as the family caretaker, and she is ready to pass that job on to someone else. Precisely at that moment, her high school crush reappears, and the draw and heat of their instant connection is like nothing she has ever experienced. He craves being around her, and she accepts all of him, dark corners included.  Beau thinks that Cora has had enough drama, and he wants to protect her from the secrets of his past, even though that means holding back the last pieces of himself. But Cora is no pushover, and she means to claim all of those pieces, because sometimes what you find is not what you were searching for. Whiskey Sharp: Torn is on sale June 26th and is available for preorder wherever books are sold.

We have a transcript sponsor for this episode. This week’s transcript is brought to you by I Am Justice by Diana Muñoz Stewart. If you would like the intrigue of Sandra Brown mixed with the passion of Laura Kaye, you’ll love this romantic suspense that travels the globe from eastern Pennsylvania to the Middle East to Mexico. Rescued from the streets by the world-renowned Parish family, Justice joined their covert sisterhood of vigilante assassins. Her next target: a sex-trafficking ring in the war-torn Middle East. She just needs the right cover. Sandesh Ross left Special Forces and started a humanitarian group to aid victims of war, but saving the world is not cheap. Enter Parish Industries and limitless funding, with one catch: their hot, prickly PR specialist, Justice Parish. BookPage named I Am Justice a top pick, saying, “An intriguing premise, a cast of strong characters unwilling to back down and black-hearted, deserve-to-die villains make I Am Justice a winning start to an exciting new series.” Cindy Dees, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author, says, “It’s witty, dangerous, fun, and smoking hot—the perfect can’t-put-it-down read…” I Am Justice by Diana Muñoz Stewart is on sale now wherever books are sold. You can find out more at dianamunozstewart.com.

The podcast has a Patreon, and I would like to humbly invite you to take a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. There are several tiers of support, starting with one dollar a month, and every pledge helps immensely to keep the show going, helps me commission transcripts for older episodes, and helps me maintain the equipment for live shows. And yes, you heard, I will be doing a live show at RWA in Denver; stay tuned for details.

I want to thank some of the Patreon folks personally as well, so to Darynda, Stacey, Laura, Shawn, and Ana, thank you so much for being part of the podcast Patreon.

Are there ways to support this podcast and every podcast you enjoy? Absolutely! Tell a friend, subscribe, leave a review wherever it is that you listen, or, you know, just tune in each week. That is an enormous honor. I am very grateful for your time and for the fact that you hang out with us each week.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is Live @ 25 by the Peatbog Faeries. This track is called “Shifting Peat and Feet.” You can find it at Amazon, on iTunes, and wherever you buy your funky music, and you can find more about Peatbog Faeries at their website, peatbogfaeries.com.

What’s coming up on the website this weekend? Well, tomorrow it is time for our monthly celebratory post, Whatcha Reading? This is where we all talk about what we’re currently reading and enjoying, and then we buy more books, because it is easily the most expensive, tempting entry each month on the site, at least for me, anyway. So we’re going to talk about what we’re reading, and we would love to hear what you are reading tomorrow as well. Next week, we are going to have Cover Snark, a Bachelorette recap, more from the world of Library Coolness, plus reviews, Help a Bitch Out, and more. We love that you hang out with us on the site as well, so I’m glad you’re part of that community.

Now, time for a bad joke. This is really bad. If you ever want to really torture yourself, head on over to the Reddit dad joke community, because it is just a glorious place. This is from Wonka88, and this is in memory of their dad, because this was their, their dad’s very favorite joke. So it’s a little gross, but it’s also hilarious. You ready? [Clears throat] Okay.

What’s the difference between roast beef and pea soup?

Give up? What’s the difference between roast beef and pea soup?

Well, anyone can roast beef.

[Laughs] Oh, wow. So Wonka88’s father was a tremendously awesome human being! [Laughs more] Roast beef. Okay. Yeah, it was a little gross, but, yeah. I’m really super excited to have that joke in my terrible, terrible arsenal. I’m going to be the worst person to talk to for the rest of the summer, ‘cause I’ve got nothing but bad jokes.

On the website at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, I will have links to everything we talked about, including pictures of Lee Pace, not as Edward, but in Breaking Dawn. There’s one where he looks like a really sort of – [laughs] – low-market Colin Farrell? It’s really weird.

Either way, I hope that you enjoyed this episode as much as we did. We will see you back here next week. In the meantime, we wish you the very, very best of reading. Have a great weekend.

[shifty music]