Dear Bitches, Smart Author Podcast, October 16, 2015

 

[music]

Sarah Wendell:  Hello, and welcome to episode number 163 of the DBSA podcast.  I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and with me today is RedHeadedGirl from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books and Barrie Hardymon from NPR.  On a recent Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast – which, if you’re not listening to that podcast you totally should, ‘cause it’s awesome – Barrie Hardymon mentioned that she could talk about Outlander for hours, and it was as if a call went across the land and RedHeadedGirl heard it, and we invited her on to our podcast to talk about Outlander, not for hours, but at least more than one hour.  It is a giant squee-fest.  It is all about Outlander the television series, the books, and some mention of the musical.  We talk about all the things that appeal to us and how it is when you love a thing so much your feelings about that thing are almost fragile.  So if you’re into Outlander, this is, like, a solid hour of squee and discussion.

This podcast is brought to you by InterMix, publisher of New York Times bestselling author Jessica Clare’s The Billionaire Takes a Bride, the latest Billionaires and Bridesmaids novel, where a lie unexpectedly turns to love.  Download it on October 20th.

The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater, and I will have information at the end of the podcast as to who this is and how you can get this music for your very own.

And I will also have information in the show notes about all of the books we talk about, plus some links to things that we discuss as well.

And one last thing!  If you’re interested in sponsoring the podcast or a podcast transcript or both, please email me at [email protected].  I would love to hear from you.

This podcast is a lot of fun, and we had a really good time, so I hope you enjoy it.  Without any further delays, on with the podcast.

[music]

Barrie Hardymon:  Thank you so much for responding!  So, I mean, I, if everybody would respond this promptly, with a podcast, I mean –

Sarah:  Oh –

Barrie:  – my God, it would be amazing!

Sarah:  Well –

RedHeadedGirl:  No, we could fix the world.  It’d be that easy.

Barrie:  Yeah, it’s true.

RHG:  I mean –

Barrie:  Actually, if people would talk about Outlander with me all day long, then I could fix the world, I do feel like.

Sarah:  Well, we talk about Outlander a lot, and when you said on Pop Culture Happy Hour that you could talk about Outlander for hours with anyone, and I, I received the immediate message from RedHeadedGirl –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  – and I was like, we are those people.

RHG:  Yes.

Barrie:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  We’re here for you.

Barrie:  So glad.  Everyone is super annoyed with me.  I literally have no one I can talk about this with.

Sarah:  Oh, dude, we’re here for you.

Barrie:  Yeah.  I had, like, one friend who’s, like, just heavily pregnant in the middle of, like, Newborn Land who would normally be the per-, and she’s just out of touch for me, and so it’s, it’s a problem.

Sarah:  Yeah, there’s a, there’s a post-baby newborn area where people are just not braining at all?

Barrie:  Yeah!  Well – [laughs] – I mean, to be honest with you, she should be, like, I feel like in about four weeks, when she’s still not braining, like, she’ll be right in Outlander land.  Like, she’ll be in braining, like you’re getting your brain back enough to be like, that dude is nice looking, and, like, you know what I mean?  You’re like –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – enough to be like, that’s a jaw.

Sarah:  Yeah!

RHG:  That’s a jaw.  He has a shirt allergy.  It’s nice.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  So nice.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  All right, so, I’m going to guess that you like Outlander, Barrie.

Barrie:  I really do.  I mean, I like – what are we talking about?  Are we talking about the series?  Are we talking about the books?  I will, I’m going to be  –

RHG:  We’re talking about the concept?

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  I love everything so much.  I love the concept.  It combines, like, my favorite things in the world.  [Laughs] Like, it literally, it’s like, it’s fantasy, it’s time travel, it’s historical fiction, it’s, like, it’s, like, an incredibly hot dude of exactly the kind of hot dude that I like kind of deal.  It’s a woman that I like.  It’s, like, a, a handhold through historical fiction.  Like, you could be modern.  She can be, like, a modern lady thinking things in a modern way, and you don’t have to be like, oh, why is there a zipper in this bodice?  You know what I mean?

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  It’s just, it’s everything I like.  And it’s always been everything I like!  I love the books!  I mean, I, I –

RHG:  Yeah, right?

Barrie:  Yeah, I actually – here’s a funny thing, and then I will stop talking.  I’m so sorry.  I’ve had it bottled up for so long.

Sarah:  No, when I said we were here –

RHG:  No, we’re here for you!

Sarah:  – yes, when we said we were here –

RHG:  We’re here for you.

Sarah:  – this is what we meant.

RHG:  We’re, we’re your therapy group.

Barrie:  Oh, my God, I’m so glad!  It’s such a relief!

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  So I had this wonderful Scottish babysitter who was, like, 150 and was babysitting for my youngest in Los Angeles, which, when we were still there – I just moved back to D.C. – and she was the one who turned me on to Outlander, and it was right during the Scot-, like, when maybe Scotland was going to become Scotland forever?  And, and so we sort of read them together, and then I began, I began to become just unable to look her in the eye, because she was, like, 150 –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – and I just, and then she would start talking in a brogue that I cannot do justice to, I can’t even touch, to be honest with you, about, like, the scenes she really liked.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Ohhh!

RHG:  Oh, Lord.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I was like, [mild brogue] oh, you dinna need to do that.  [usual accent] But it was, but so, so, first I loved the books, and then I kind of discovered, this was – has this ever happened to you, where you sort of are, like, because I was in Newborn Baby Land, I was kind of like off of things that I would normally be really connected to, so I actually didn’t realize there was a whole first season until it was, like, halfway done?  And so it was like the greatest gift, and, you know, like, the minute I saw Ja-, the minute I saw, I was just like, oh, my God.  This is the, this is the prestige television I have been looking for.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  This is it.  I mean –

RHG:  Take your Breaking Bad and shove it.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  Take your Difficult Men.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I mean, seriously.  Take your, take your rapey-ness with no pro-, like, with no plot attached.  You know that, your, like, random rapey-ness – Game of Thrones, I’m looking at you.  Like –

Sarah:  You can’t see me right now, but I am holding up a lighter.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  The random rapey-ness!

RHG:  Oh, my God.

Barrie:  I want a button of Dougal just saying, I dinna hold with rape.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I just want a button.

RHG:  Right, which –

Barrie:  Don’t you want a button?

RHG:  – is kind of a flat-out lie, but whatever, Dougal.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Yeah, well, that’s fine.  But I just, like, when he said it the first time I was like –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – me neither, dude –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – me neither, and I love your hat, too.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Anyway.  But I just, it is made for me.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I’ve got to stop talking, guys, or I’ll, I mean –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – I feel like I can’t – my heart is beating so hard!  I’m not kidding!  My pulse is skyrocketing right now.  [Laughs]

RHG:  That’s why I have wine.

Barrie:  That was brilliant.  Oh, my God.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Would it be weird if I texted my husband to come home with wine?  [Laughs] No, it would be, in fact, appropriate.

Sarah:  We would, we would encourage that.

RHG:  No, that would be brilliant.  That’s –

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  Like –

RHG:  – one of the reasons to have one of those, right?

Barrie:  Yes, to-, you mean, yes, oh, yes.

Sarah:  A husband?  Yes, they bring you wine.

RHG:  Husband, yeah.

Sarah:  They bring you wine.  It’s lovely.  But you should only hi- – no, you weren’t supposed to bring me wine, dear.

RHG:  Uh-oh!

Barrie:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  He, he’s got a headlamp on, and he is fixing my son’s Android tablet, ‘cause the charger broke –

Barrie:  Oh.

Sarah:  – and so he has got, like, a million tiny screws spread out on the, on the coffee table, and he’s wearing a headlamp, and, like, geek level up to eleven going on over here, so I won’t make him get me wine, but what you want in a husband is the one who says, do you need me to bring you wine?

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  I got that one.  I mean, I’m talking, like, seven minutes after they wheeled me out of operating room –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – like, C section blaring, he was like, when, when can we start drinking?  And I was like –

Sarah:  Oh, God.

Barrie:  – I think about ten minutes ago.

Sarah:  [Laughs] Yeah, this is going to wear off, and I’m going to need some bourbon?

Barrie:  Exactly.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Can you pour it directly on this incision?  That would be great.

Sarah:  So, tell me a thing.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  When you started watching Outlander the TV show –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – have you been bottling up all of your joy and euphoria since then?

Barrie:  I – [laughs] – I have!

Sarah:  [Laughs] That’s terrible!

Barrie:  I feel so crazy!  And I also didn’t – does this ever happen to you?  I mean, maybe I’m just not as – but I didn’t want to go down the rabbit hole of the internet, because I, I didn’t want, I only wanted to, I only wanted to discover it with human beings that I could, that could say a thing back to me?

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  Like, so I didn’t want to read a think piece ‘cause I wanted it to stay –

Sarah:  I totally understand!

Barrie:  – because I like it so much.  This rarely happens to me, by the way.  I’m a person that’s like, can you – I will, like, literally type into my girl Google, I’ll be like, can I have seven think pieces about a thing?

[Laughter]

Barrie:  My God, the husband just arrived with the wine!

[Cheers!]

Barrie:  And my lady!  Thank you!  Anyway, that’s good.

Sarah:  Is he wearing a kilt?

Barrie:  He’s not wearing a kilt.

Sarah:  Okay, next time.

Barrie:  He might – he’s probably not wearing underpants, because we just moved in, and nobody can find anything, so.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Okay.  That’s legit.

Barrie:  So, there’s that.  Anyway, so, yes, I’ve been bottling.  I have been bottling – [laughs] – so crazy.  It is so crazy, and I almost went off on a huge tangent on that show when I, when I did that, like, mute callout to you guys.

Sarah:  Yes.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I was like, where are my people?  And I could kind of see Linda like, uh-oh, we’re about to go down a rabbit hole.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Kind of see the fear in her eyes, and so I just, I wrestled it back into my soul.

RHG:  I heard that.  I heard that.

Barrie:  Who would have thought, by the way, I mean, what do you, don’t you think, who would have thought that this would be the thing that would be the answer, like the, this is the, this is for you ladies that are sick of, like, Westeros?  Like, who would have thought?  I, I, I mean, I guess, you probably all thought it, ‘cause –

Sarah:  No.  Most of the time when someone says, oh, they’re making a television version out of this Insert Title of Beloved Book Here, there’s almost always a fifty-fifty split of, yay!  This is going to be great! and, it’s going to suck, and I’ll write 3,000 words right now to tell you why.

RHG:  Right, and, I mean, there had been talk about, oh, some-, somebody has the option.  Oh, they’re going to try a movie, at which point I was like, that’s a terrible idea.  This book –

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG: – is 5,000 pages long.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  There, you, you can’t, you can’t.  And then they said, oh, Starz has it, and I’m like, okay?

Barrie:  Oh, shit, right, oh, is my thought.  Shoot.

Sarah:  Yeah, pretty much.

RHG:  Well, okay.  And then they said, well, Ronald D. Moore has it, and I’m like, all right.  I’m in.

Barrie:  And that’s cool.

RHG:  I’m in, ‘cause I generally, I generally trust him, last season of Battlestar Galactica notwithstanding.  Because he, he understands the, the, the concept of storytelling –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – and visual storytelling, and I am told, having suffered through Battlestar Galactica in real time – God, it was exhausting –

Barrie:  Oh, you did?

RHG:  I did!  In real time, and season four doesn’t really hold up –

Barrie:  I caught up.  Yeah.

RHG:  – if you watch it in real time, but I’m told by people who binge through it, they’re like, oh, yeah, it was great!  So if you didn’t have the, the year-long hiatus and the week-by-week buildup of dear God, what’s going to happen, and you just start going with it?

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah, yeah.

RHG:  Then it works a lot better.

Barrie:  Oh, that’s fascinating.  I, maybe I’ll try that.  Because it didn’t leap, like, I loved it when we –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – so we, like, binged on the first three and then, and caught up, you know, which was so that –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – we were in a waiting game situation.  But that is an interesting – and I loved, and I did find that it, I, I did find that last season kind of a failure.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  But, oh, that is interesting.  And I think you’re probably right.  He does know how to tell a story.  I think he also understands a little something about gender, which is, like, dear –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – near and dear to my heart and my parts, female parts.

RHG:  Definitely.

Sarah:  This, this whole show has just been fearless –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – in its embrace of the fact that we are so aware that women are watching, and we are going to do this justice.  Like –

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – you, you keep waiting, like, I remember watching, ‘cause RedHeadedGirl and Elyse and Carrie were recapping and reviewing each episode –

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

Sarah: – and part of it was, okay, we really want this to be a success, so we’re going to talk about it every week, and maybe people will get really excited and come talk about it with us.  ‘Cause it’s not like the concept of recapping isn’t done at ninety zillion other places?

Barrie:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  When we want to boost something and be like –

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

Sarah:  – okay, y’all, we’re excited about this –

RHG:  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – you should watch it and come hang out with us.

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  We did this with TNT’s The Librarians –

Barrie:  Mmm!

RHG:  And that, and that worked.

Sarah:  It totally worked!  It was super campy, it was goofy, they totally aired it –

Barrie:  Yep.

Sarah:  – out of order, and you could tell, and it was frustrating, but it was still so much fun.

Barrie:  Yes, and that, yeah.

Sarah:  And, and so we thought, okay, we’re going to do this with Outlander, and we’re going to hope it doesn’t suck, and then each week it got better and better –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – and it was like, is, is something bad going to happen?  Like, is this just going to come burning down?  And then when they –

Barrie:  Yes!

Sarah:  – got to the most horrible, horrible parts –

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  – they did it justice?

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG:  They did it justice, although I – that was hell to recap.  That was absolute hell to recap.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah, yeah.

RHG:  Oh, my God.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I know.

Sarah:  I can imagine that –

Barrie:  Well, what did you guys think?  I’m actually curious as a person –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – like, ‘cause I had, let’s see, ‘cause I read, I had read the books recently, so I was familiar with all of the plot points that were going to come, and I was like, oh, they’re going to skip that, Jamie gives her a spanking –

RHG:  Nope.

Barrie:  – that is definitely not coming.  And then it did, and I was like, well, they’re going to skip the, some rape-age.  Nope.

Sarah:  Nope.

RHG:  Nope.

Barrie:  It’s coming.  Like, I didn’t, I really – when was the point?  Like, ‘cause that was where, when we got to the second half, I guess, like, episode nine –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – I was like, oh, my God, they are treating this with intelligence and, like, kid, not kid gloves, actually.  They’re –

RHG:  Right.  They’re –

Barrie:  – they’re, like, doing it up.

RHG:  Yeah, but they’re treating it with the respect it deserved –

Barrie:  Right.  Yeah.

RHG:  – as opposed to –

Barrie:  With intelligence.

RHG:  – ha!

Barrie:  Yeah.  Intelligent gloves.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Right, and it wasn’t a, it wasn’t a rape scene that was at least, you know, forty to fifty percent titillation –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – which a lot of the other shows do.

Barrie:  Oh, I’m looking at you –

RHG:  – at you –

Barrie and RHG:  – Game of Thrones –

Barrie:  I can’t.

RHG:  – Game of fucking Thrones.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I, no, I can’t.

RHG:  I, I’m so mad that it’s this season that got the best drama series Emmy.  So mad about it.

Barrie:  I am too, ‘cause it’s saying, I just want somebody to say that, like, this is torture porn!  Like, but you –

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  – like, I want the Academy to say, you know, fine, we’re all going to watch it, it’s – I mean, I watch it.  I’m not going to lie to you, I, you know, I’ve read all those books.  I don’t know how else you nurse a child, but, like, I –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – you know, I, I really, I, I just want the group of people to say, okay, but we’re not going to award it anything, you know?  Like –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – you understand, this has, this kind of thing has existed for years.  I mean, it’s called Titus Andronicus, fine.

Sarah:  Uh-huh.

Barrie:  But, you know, but, but why do we have to award it and, and, and say that it is prestige?  I, like, I don’t, I don’t get it!

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  That it’s prestigious in this way.  I – argh!

RHG:  Yeah.  Yeah, this is the season that I broke up with Game of Thrones, when it was clear where, what they were doing with Sansa’s storyline?

Barrie:  With Sansa, oh, interesting.

RHG:  And I was just like, you know what?  I’m done.  And I feel, I feel very conflicted about it.  This is the first year that I had legal access to HBO?

Barrie and Sarah:  Ohhh!

Sarah:  That is a big deal!

RHG:  That – and then I, and then I broke up with it.

Sarah:  Ugh!

RHG:  I know!  [Laughs] I know.

Sarah:  I hope they replace it with something – okay, my dog is getting up with his ears down and his tail between his legs because I have voiced frustration at HBO, and clearly he has done something wrong.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  I’m sorry I produced Game of Thrones, The Lady.  I’m going to leave the room now.

Barrie:  He’s, like, sorry about that Sansa thing.

Sarah:  [Laughs] I hope, I hope –

Barrie:  Sorry I made that rape scene about Theon.  Sorry.

Sarah:  Yeah.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I do hope HBO replaces your loss with something equally good –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – although my, my sad expectation is, okay, well, we have re-, we have rewarded and awarded the super-gratuitous, uber-rapey, disgusting –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – torture porn, so, yay, here come nine more shows like that.

Barrie:  I know.

RHG:  Pretty much.

Sarah:  It’s like CSI:  Game of Thrones.

Barrie:  Like, well, I mean, that is actually, I mean, the thing that I – I mean, I will admit, by the way, that I’ve only watched two episodes of, oh, my God, what is it, it’s the thing everybody loves with the people and they’re sad and Matthew McConaughey is saying things, and it’s –

RHG and Sarah:  True Detective.

Barrie:  Thank you!  God, why –

Sarah:  Matthew, Matthew McConaughey is saying things is like –

[Laughter]

Sarah:  – that’s really all you need to know about that.

Barrie:  Saying things in a monotone and an accent.

RHG:  Pretty much, and then Woody Harrelson gives him the greatest “the fuck is wrong with you?” faces.

Barrie:  Right.  I know people loved this, but I have to say, like, two episodes into it, I was like, you know what – it’s HBO, right? – I was like, you know what, HBO?

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I’ve only got room for one of these in my life.  I’ve already seen, like, I, like, I was just like, I don’t need to see a naked woman with the whatever and the thing and the stripper and the whatever.  I just, like, I, I, I sat through The Sopranos because I thought it was special and new –

Sarah:  Uh-huh.

Barrie:  – and I, so I was like –

RHG:  Yep.

Barrie:  – ready, I was like, okay, I will sit through your strippers and your, like, totally gratuitous pornography of, you know, these women in a certain way, because I actually did feel like it was serving the story, and I hadn’t seen it before.

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  And I just, I was like, I didn’t believe in True Detective.  It felt false, and I peeled off after two episodes, and everybody tells me I’m wrong, but I don’t care; I’m not doing it.  I’m not.

Sarah:  There’s only so much room you have in your psyche –

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  – for –

Barrie:  Yep.

Sarah:  – oh, God, this again?

Barrie:  I know.

RHG:  Right.  Exactly.

Barrie:  I know, and what’s so interesting, I was talking, I, I was trying desperately to talk to my husband, I was monologuing at my husband about this.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  But I was like –

Sarah:  Please monologue to us anytime.  If you need to make this a regular feature, we’re here for you, just so you know.

RHG:  Absolutely.

Barrie:   Thank God.  I can’t talk to my husband, who only reads Raymond Carver, about –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  So I, you know, I was like, here’s the thing that’s so, I just, I really, I’m sure a billion think pieces have been written about it, but it is that thing of, like, okay, this is a, a series that includes a ton of sex, a lot, you know, sex as power.  Rape.  You know, that, all of these sort of gender, that all these sort of gender-identified things that are played with in other ways on these other shows, and they are doing it in such a way that we understand the source, as opposed – it’s not, it, it, it, it’s the meatball!  It’s not the sauce!  You know?

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  That was the worst analogy I – I’m sorry, guys.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  I, I’m, I, wow.  That was excellent.

RHG:  Yeah, no –

Barrie:  [Laughs] But no, that’s the thing –

RHG:  I actually had spaghetti and meatballs for dinner.

Barrie:  Oh, good.

Sarah:  Ooh, even better!

Barrie:  That’s great.  Grab Outlander and –

Sarah:  How prescient!

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – Outlander and just a, and a touch of Game of Thrones on top

RHG:  There you go.  There you go.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Wait, but so, so you guys, I assume –

RHG:  Yep.

Barrie:  – I am, I have not read every single one of the books, but just to be quite honest with you about that.

Sarah:  That’s okay, because –

RHG:  Yeah, I –

Barrie:  Partly because I now –

Sarah:  – you could nurse, like, five other babies with those books.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:   I mean, I might have another child to keep going.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  But here’s the thing:  so, are you feeling like this is a, this is a series that has legs through, you know, past Voyager?

RHG:  Um, hmm, see, that, that’s an interesting question.  I think – I haven’t read the, the most recent book that just came out, ‘cause –

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

RHG:  – I just don’t want to pay hardcover prices for it –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – and all of my other ones are the trade paperbacks, and it wouldn’t match!

Barrie:  Oh, my God!  I love you so much!  I just shelved all my books –

[Laughter]

Barrie:  – and I’m so mad about what’s happened to my Harry Potter collection and other things.  Like, I just –

RHG:  Right?!

Barrie:  Yeah.  I’m just –

RHG:  Right.  Yeah.

Barrie:  For real.

RHG:  Like, Harry Potter I, I just kind of sucked it up and put up with it because I needed those books to appear on my doorstep the day they appeared.

Barrie:  Yeah, totally, totally.  I need that now.

Sarah:  But when you look at them on the shelf and they go little, little, big, big, big, big, it’s, yeah.

Barrie:  Yes!

Sarah:  It’s just not right, I know.

RHG:  Yeah, yeah, it’s –

Sarah:  I know.

RHG:  – it’s a thing.

Barrie:  Anyway, so, books –

RHG:  I think – yeah, so, the books.  So, I read the first four when I was in college.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  Like, I’d actually, I’d read the second one several years before –

Barrie:  Okay.

RHG:  – and I was like, I have no idea what the fuck is happening right now.  And then I found them again when I went to college and tore through all four of them, and then the fourth one just sort of stops.

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  And another friend of mine and I were like, there has – are there more coming?

Barrie:  [Laughs]

RHG:  And we managed to – this was 1999 –

Barrie:  Wow.

RHG:  – and we managed to find Diana’s CompuServe email address.  I don’t even know how.

Barrie:  Oh, my God!  Are you kidding me?

RHG:  [Laughs] I am not kidding you!  I’m not kidding you at all!

Barrie:  Oh, my gosh.

RHG:  And sent her an email going, hi, we just discovered your books, and they’re fucking brilliant, and we can’t even.  We’re just sort of wondering if, are there going to be any more?

Barrie:  [Laughs]

RHG:  And she wrote back, and she’s like, oh, yeah, I’m working on the fifth one now.  Thank you for your note.  I’m like, okay!

Sarah:  Did you have to pick yourself up off the floor, like, three days later?

Barrie:  Yeah, I would have been like –

RHG:  Pretty much.  I –

Barrie:  – can somebody wake me up?  

RHG:  – I think about that now, and I’m like, oh, God, that’s just so, no, no, why did you do that?  [Laughs]

Barrie:  It’s so great!  It shows that you were a person that was already good at the internet, too –

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  – ‘cause you were just like, you’re mine.

RHG:  Yeah, yeah.

Barrie:  Person I love?  You’re mine.  I’m reaching out to take you with my hand.

RHG:  Right.  And –

Sarah:  In a, in a non-creepy way, or maybe –

Barrie:  No, it was the best way!  I’m reaching out to, like, clasp hands.

Sarah:  Yes, in a vaguely creepy but good way.  [Laughs]

RHG:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Barrie:  I’m not going to, like, grab you in a place.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Right, I’m just going to quietly go, um, ‘scuse me, I have a question?  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I would like to raise my hand.  There we go.

[Laughter]

RHG:  And then the fifth one, I mean, I, I think kind of once you get –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – past Voyager –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – I think it will get really difficult to film them, ‘cause, like, half of The Fiery Cross is one day –

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG:  – that goes on forever, and there’re a lot of dirty diapers involved.

Barrie:  Yeah.  [Laughs]

RHG:  There’s so many!

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah, that’s going to be tough.

RHG:  [Laughs] So I think that certainly the Poutlanders, should we actually get that far –

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

RHG: – are going to be real mad, ‘cause, oh, my God!  RDM changed things!  Argh!

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RHG:  I have, I have a whole song and dance about the Poutlanders.

Barrie:  [Laughs] Poutlanders:  they’re so cute!

RHG:  I know, but you know –

Barrie:  They’re plaid and pouty.

RHG:  [Laughs] Yes!

Barrie:  I love them.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  But, but are you, I mean, but you, do you want it to, are you – yeah, you must want it but also not want it.  I know what you mean.

RHG:  I, I want to see how RDM’s going to do it, and if it doesn’t happen, if we just get to, to Voyager and look!  We’re in the New World!  Yay!

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  I’ll be happy too, ‘cause I never expected to get this much.

Barrie:  Right, right, right.

RHG:  And my favorite book out of the entire series is Dragonfly in Amber, so we get through that and I’m a very happy girl.

Barrie:  Yep, yep.  That’s, those are the, I mean, for me, those, yeah.  I, I would like to get to Voyager.  I’d like to, you know, I’d like to get through there, ‘cause I think there’s a lot of interesting stuff that now I’m interested in seeing on film.  I wouldn’t have been interested –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – but then when I saw what they did with, with Outlander, now, with, with book one, I’m like, oh, you could do this!

RHG:  Yeah, right!

Barrie:  You know, you are an interesting person.  And you are listening to a lot – that’s the other thing; it’s totally clear that he is listening to a lot of different people in the writer’s room.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Like, not in that way of, like, okay, we’re going to show, like, leaky breasts because we’re, we’re doing a thing.  It was just so resolutely practical in the way that it is in the book –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – and the way that it is in life, you know?

RHG:  Right.  Well, yeah, I’ve never actually seen a boob do what a boob is supposed to do?

Barrie:  Yes!

RHG:  I will –

Sarah:  I mean if you do that in public, people call the police and yell and throw things at you –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – I mean –

RHG:  Right, really.

Sarah:  – and one of the things that fascinated me about that scene was not only were people like, oh, my God!  It’s a nursing breast!

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  And then the next question was how did they film that?

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah!

Sarah:  Was that CGI?  Was that a CGI breast?  No!

Barrie:  Right.

Barrie and Sarah:  No!

Barrie:  Wait, so when you type that into the internet, what will happen?  It wasn’t –

Sarah:  How did they, how did they film –

RHG:  How did they do it?

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  When, right after that episode aired, when you typed that into the internet, you just got a whole bunch of other people going, yeah, how did they do that?

Barrie:  Okay.  [Laughs] But then people said –

RHG:  But – but, but –

Barrie:  – yeah, they obviously, it was a second shot.

RHG:  No, it was a prosthetic.

Barrie:  Oh, oh, fascinating!

Sarah:  You remember when the people did that instead of special effects?

Barrie:  Oh, my God, I don’t remember when people did that.

RHG:  Like, all of Mad Max.  All of Mad Max.  Have you seen Mad Max?  You need to see that.

Barrie:  I have.  Are you kidding me?  It’s, like, probably the only movie I’ve seen in the theater in a long time, actually.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  My God, I loved it so much.  Anyway, yes.

RHG:  Right, but RDM does a podcast with each episode?

Barrie:  Oh, he does?  What, I’m like, do you see –

RHG:  Oh, no!

Barrie:  – the doors of the kingdom opening?

RHG:  Oh, sweetie!  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I know; it’s so upsetting.

RHG:  Oh, honey, we’re here for you!  We’re here for you.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  I literally feel like big doors just creaked open, and I’m going to just, I’m going to disappear from the world for, like, a long time.  I’m, my husband’s going to be like, why are you walking to work all the, all of a sudden?  You hate using your legs.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  I feel like we’re corrupting you.

Barrie:  I know; you are –

Sarah:  Like we’ve removed all of your –

Barrie:  – but I’m probably going to get healthier.

Sarah:  – like, you, you work for Morning Edition?

Barrie:  No, I work for Weekend Edition.

Sarah:  Weekend Edition!

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I knew it was an Edition.

Barrie:  Yeah, it is.

Sarah:  Like, alternate –

Barrie:  It’s definitely an Edition.  It is, in fact, every week an Edition.

Sarah:  Yes, exactly.  So now, every week you can do an additional story about walking and podcasts to justify walking with your podcasts.

Barrie:  Completely!  I could – I love it!  This is an amazing tautology.  I’m so excited.  This is –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – you guys have been, already given me so much.  I mean – [laughs]

RHG:  And it’s only been, like, twenty minutes.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  It’s only been twenty minutes.  I love it.  I’m so excited.

[Laughter]

RHG:  Yeah, but he does a podcast with, for each episode where he watches the episode.

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

RHG:  There’s usually, almost always, Scotch involved?

Barrie:  Oh, excellent.

RHG:  And he often has either Terry Dresbach, who is the costume designer –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – and also his wife –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – or a director or one of the other writers on to talk about kind of what’s going on, what they did, the writing process –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – or how they made the boob do the thing.

Barrie:  Ah!  Ah!

Sarah:  How you made the boob do the thing –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – has got to be a really popular episode.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  That’s like Obama on, on Maron’s podcast, and how’d you make the boob do the thing?

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  Probably the same number of downloads there.

Barrie:  Totally – [laughs]

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:   – I’m sure it’s the same deal.  Absolutely.  Can I ask you guys what you’re disappointed, is there anything that you’re like, they really, that was a big fail?

RHG:  I didn’t think there was any – I, I –

Barrie:  I don’t have any.  I’m just cur-

RHG:  I don’t have any.  I know, I think there were a couple of things that I was like, I was either disappointed that got cut – I mean, I understand –

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  – why they did.  Like –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – the whole midnight conversation with Jamie and Claire after the whole spanking episode –

Barrie:  Yes, yes –

RHG:  – where he talks about his father and –

Barrie:  Hmm.

RHG:  – kind of where his concept of justice came from?

Barrie:  Yes.  Yep.

RHG:  I really miss that, although I do, like, understand why that got cut or –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – please, God, hopefully moved?

Barrie:  Yep.  I have thought about that.

RHG:  Probably not?

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  But ultimately, I’m at peace with every decision that they made.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  There, there were a number of times where I would look at my review or the recap and go, well, when I watched the first time I was real mad that things got moved, but then once I watched it the second time and had some distance, then I was like, okay, that makes sense.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah, yeah.  I feel the same way.  I don’t, there’s nothing in it that – I, I would agree with you about that conversation.  There’re a couple of stories, ‘cause there’s so many stories within stories in this book; it’s such a digressive kind of, you know, especially the Jamie’s past kind of stuff –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – that I, you know, I just miss those little, you know, the vignettes?  And God, she really has a way with a kicker.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  She’s just like, she is just the kicker queen, but I think it’s so well, I just think it is so well put together, and the thing is, I’m actually bummed that I didn’t watch it with my husband, ‘cause I think he would love it.  I do.  I really do.  I mean, I think that it would be, there would be a slight awkwardness, but I – [laughs] – you know, I mean, there would be a lot of, like, my goodness.  But I –

Sarah:  I, I have DVDs of the first, what was it, RedHeadedGirl, was it the first six?

RHG:  First eight.

Sarah:  First eight.  I have a DVD of the first eight, and I could send it to you if you wanted to try him out.

Barrie:  So I own the first eight, and I definitely –

Sarah:  Okay, good.

RHG:  Okay.

Barrie:  – want to try it out.  So now I feel like we’re talking about sex toys.  

[Laughter]

Barrie:  I definitely want to try this out.

Sarah:  That’s a whole other podcast, also titled How Did You Make the Boob Do the Thing?

[Laughter]

RHG:  This is so not NPR.

Sarah:  [Laughs] Yes!

Barrie:  I know; I love it so much!  I want to live in it.  It’s totally I’m in the wrong place, but I had to say that it might really disappoint him, ‘cause like, you know, he loves a good, like, sex on television, he’s a, you know, that’s fine.  But he, I, I feel like he would be like, why aren’t we getting more World War II?  ‘Cause his jam is just, like, Band of Brothers, like, the Pacific, like, he just wants to watch men in, like, mud and blood?  And so I feel like he’d be like, we really just missed the most important part of this.  Like, could we just go back?  Could we get a flashback to World War II?

Sarah:  Well, there is mud.

RHG:  Well, there’s going to be mud, and there’s–

Barrie:  That’s right.

RHG:  – certainly going to be blood in the last half of season –

Barrie:  You know, that’s true.

Sarah:  But the uniforms are way better where we’re going, honey, trust me.

Barrie:  Oh, I totally, I will say, you, you know I agree with you, but I –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – I, I would, it’s going to be a tough sell on a man that, like, you know, like, who has, has done a lot of deep looks at, like, you know, the Guadalcanal.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  So, you know, but anyway, I feel like I can get it done –

RHG:  Yep.

Barrie:  – and, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to, I’m going to give it a whirl, guys, totally.

Sarah:  Good!

Barrie:  Yeah.  Totally.  Do your, do you, is this the, is this something you bring your, your family into?  How much of your family do you bring into the Outlander world?

Sarah:  Very little, ‘cause –

Barrie:  Really!

Sarah:  – no, it’s, that’s not my husband’s thing, and my kids are eight and ten, so –

Barrie:  Oh, yeah.

Sarah:  – they’re not ready for how the boob does the thing?  So –

Barrie:  They’re not into how any of that stuff –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – does that stuff.

Sarah:  Exactly.  But at the same time, though, I think that it’s, it’s almost like, for a lot of people, I think, it is so good, and it is so special –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – and it’s such this miraculous thing –

Barrie:  I know!

Sarah:  – like the, the, like the people who are producing it are talented, and the writers are all talented –

Barrie:  Yeah.  And the acting is – 

Sarah:  – and the original source material is being honored, and then the actors –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – are incredible –

Barrie:  Oh, my God, they’re so good.

RHG:  Uh-huh.

Sarah:  – and it’s all so good, if I show it to someone else, it might break.

Barrie:  Yes!

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  I know what you mean.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I also can’t stand, like, it is a little, like, treasure.  Like, if he said anything mean about it, it would be like –

Sarah:  Oh, game on.

RHG:  Yeah!  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – the time I made – like, I don’t what I would do.  One time I made him watch Shining Through, which is one of my favorite movies ever –

RHG:  Oh, my God!

Barrie:  It’s also one of my favorite books ever.  And I –

RHG:  Oh, my – that’s, that’s the, the Michael Douglas, Darryl –

Barrie:  Melanie Griffith.  Yeah.

RHG:  Melanie Griffith.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  And, oh, yeah –

Barrie:  With the Nazi –

RHG:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Barrie:  – and I, yeah.  I mean, I love that movie.  I love that book.  The book is, like, is actually amazing, and I love Susan Isaacs with a huge passion.  But I, and one time we watched it, and I mean, our marriage almost failed, because he made too much fun of it.

Sarah:  [Gasp!] Oh, no!

Barrie:  Like, it was just, I was, like, this is a disaster.  I can’t; I just can’t with this.  So if that ever happened with, like, I just don’t know that we could, we could withstand it.  It would be, it would be tough stuff.  I would be like, I need to go to Craigh na Dun.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I, I, I’m going to put my hands on a stone –

RHG: Right.

Barrie:  – and really have my fingers crossed, dude.  But yeah, no, I’m with you.  It is a special, it is special and wonderful –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – and I love it so much.

Sarah:  And it says so much about how we as – I want to say consumers, although that’s not quite the right word – as –

Barrie:  I’m consuming.

Sarah:  Right, exactly, but, like as –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  – people who are avidly interested in watching good entertainment –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – like we are actively looking for stuff –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – that, that’s, that is this good, and now we’re getting more and more on television, and we’re getting more incredible stuff, and it’s like, oh, my gosh!  Everything tastes so good!  This is amazing!

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Like –

Barrie:  Yep.

Sarah:  It, it’s, it’s incredible when the response is largely, this is really good; nobody move.

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  No, no sudden movements; we don’t want to scare this away.

Barrie:  Right –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie: – don’t break it.  Yeah, no, that’s totally true.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  I can’t think of anything I’ve felt this way about in a long time.

Sarah:  Isn’t that funny that, that sort of just –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – ebullient love is, is –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – is, like, wow, I haven’t, you know, utterly adored something –

Barrie:  I almost felt this way about Wolf Hall, but at the end, it kind of –

RHG:  Ohhh.

Barrie:  I know, I just –

RHG:  I wanted to.

Barrie:  I know, I know.

RHG:  I tried, I just –

Barrie:  I, it turned out I just felt that way about Rylance.  Like, do you know what I mean?

RHG:  I mean, which is no bad thing.

Barrie:  And I might have actually just felt that way about his eyebrows.  Like, I –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – it, when I only examine –

RHG:  Again, not a bad thing.

Barrie:  – exactly.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  When I really examine it, it goes – but I want, I was close to that.  But I, I can’t think of a thing made from another thing that I loved, like, you know, the cloth of which –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – is that, like this.

RHG:  I mean, I have very similar feels about Poldark?  My, my love for Poldark is pure and true –

[Laughter]

RHG:  – but I didn’t – oh, it so is – [laughs] –

Barrie:  It’s so pure; it’s so true.

RHG:  But I – [laughs] – but I didn’t read the books; like, the books aren’t part of my –

Barrie:  Your canon.

RHG:  – my, my canon, my –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – becoming an adult –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – is sort of wrapped up in the Outlander books, which is kind of a weird thing to think about, which I hadn’t really put it in those terms before.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  I’m having wine-soaked epiphanies right now.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I know; those are the only good kind.

RHG:  I love Poldark, and I love the stories and the – I’ve got eight more books to read –

Sarah:  Yay!

RHG:  – which makes me happy.  And Aidan Turner also has a shirt allergy, so I’m good with that.

Barrie:  So happy.

RHG:  Right?  It’s a great allergy.

Barrie:  Yeah, so glad all these people – I, I can’t believe all these great actors have those allergies, ‘cause like –

RHG:  I know.

Barrie:  How do you say that guy’s name?  Sam What’s-His-Face?  Hue-an?

RHG:  Hue-gan.

Barrie:  Heughan.  I, I’d figured there was some vowel that was extra.  I, like, what is with the, like – I mean, he is genuinely good, and he is insane looking.  Like, what?  Where did they find that dude?

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I don’t, I just do not understand.  I wanted to make fun of him, like, on, upon the second, like, getting to the second episode, but then I just couldn’t.  Like –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – ‘cause he’s –

Sarah:  He’s that good.

Barrie:  So –

RHG:  ‘Cause he’s that good, and he just –

Barrie:  – good.

RHG:  – keeps getting better.  My, I have a podcast of my own, and one of my co-hosts is –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – Scotland – is Scotland.  It’s all of Scotland –

Sarah:  Oh, my gosh, does she know that?

RHG:  – no, she’s Scottish.

Barrie:  Right.  That’s okay.

Sarah:  Wow!

RHG:  [Laughs] I’ll let her know.  She’s asleep right now.

Barrie:  What a compliment.

[Laughter]

RHG:  Right.  And she saw him in a play in Edinburgh –

Sarah:  Mm.

Barrie:  Oh.

RHG:  – a couple years ago, and she gets to rub it in all of our faces, and she does.

Sarah:  I would, seriously.

Barrie:  Oh, my God, I would rub it all over everyone’s faces.  I mean, I would not – I mean, ‘cause that dude is amazing!  And I love Tob-, Tobias Menzies, who I have loved for many, many outings.  Rome, another, another HBO –

RHG:  Oh, mm-hmm.  I love that.

Barrie:  – you know, parrot.  Yeah, I did love it.  It was like, for me it was, it was the Games of Thrones that I could live with.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Oh!

RHG:  Yes.

Sarah:  That’s an interesting way of putting it.

Barrie:  Like, morally.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Because, you know, do you know what I mean?  ‘Cause it’s like, at least, like, this is Rome, you know what I mean?  Like, this is a real place.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Real bad.

RHG:  And quite frankly, there was a lot less – there was still plenty of rapey-ness in Rome, don’t get me wrong –

Barrie:  Totally!  Yeah, oh, awful, yeah.

RHG:  – but I think there was, there’s more gratuitous, pointless rapey-ness in Game of Thrones.

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah.

RHG:  And we get Tobias Menzies in both shows, and in both –

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG:  – and, well, in all three, actually.  He is –

Barrie:  Oh, yeah.  Oh, wait.

RHG:  He was –

Barrie:  Oh, that’s right, he’s Edmure, isn’t he?

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie and RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I can’t – so you really gave up and you’re not watching it anymore.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Oh, you’re a better woman than I.

RHG:  I, it, it might last.  I don’t know.

Barrie:  I mean, I will say that, like, I am at the point where, like, Steve and I do fast forward through a lot of it –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – ‘cause I’m just like, I can’t have it, I can’t have – there’s just too many pictures in my brain that are bad.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Right.  It, it’s, and then those are going to take up residence, like, when you’re trying to go to sleep.  Hey!  Let’s think about this scene!

Barrie:  Right.  Totally!  Or when I’m, like, doing a thing.  It’s like, I don’t need to, I don’t need it in there when I’m, like, chopping strawberries, either.

Sarah:  Exactly.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  And there’s so much good TV that –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – I, I don’t feel like I’m wandering through a parched desert looking for, I need something good to watch!

Barrie:  Yeah.  No, I don’t either!

RHG:  I have so much!

Barrie:  It’s insane how much con- – I know everybody, this, this is literally, like, a person that has never seen a television before, but I cannot believe how much content there is!

RHG:  Right!

Barrie:  It is In. Sanity.

Sarah:  It’s wonderful!

Barrie:  I know.  It is, it’s wonderful, but it’s also that thing of, like, I, so, like, I just subscribed to this ridiculous app which gives you every magazine under the sun, and –

Sarah:  Oh, what app is this?  It may be –

Barrie:  It’s called Next Issue, and I love it so much.  So, it means that I can indulge every single, like, bad entertainment, mascara, whatever, like, and The New Yorker, and now I sit down and it’s almost too much.  Like, I’m just like –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – I can’t, I can’t read the Vogue Beyoncé story.  I just, I have, don’t have room for it.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I want to, you know, but it’s just like, this is a surfeit of stuff.  Like, I can’t, I can’t, and I’m beginning to feel that way with T, with television.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  I almost said TV, like with TV.  [Laughs] You know that pronunciation of TV which is just like way too – ?  Anyway, but I, I just –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – I’m beginning to feel like I am just, this, the saturation point is coming.

RHG:  Mm-hmm, yep.

Barrie:  And I sometimes have to, like, force myself to sit down.  And, and!  What I’ve found recently is that I’d rather just go back and re-watch Outlander.  Like, on every occasion.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  It’s so crazy.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And it’s, it, the show is as layered as the books.

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  Like, there’s stuff that you notice when you look at, ‘cause I know RedHeadedGirl has told me even recapping, what, like a day or two later, you notice a whole new other thing.

RHG:  Yep.  Yep.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yep.  I like that.

Sarah:  And then one of my reviewers, Carrie, she really wants Claire and Jen-, and Jenny go fight crime?  Like – [laughs] – she just wants to, like, put the whole show on hold and have Claire and Jenny –

Barrie:  Totally.

Sarah:  – just go off to Scotland –

Barrie:  That little actress is –

Sarah:  – and, and –

RHG:  Oh, my God, she’s amazing.

Barrie:  She is so amazing; that face, the whole thing, the – I just –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – I love it so much.  I also love, and this is the thing about the books that’s so terrific, is this, like, it doesn’t feel – I mean, I know, I, this is the thing that I know annoys everybody when I, when I try to talk to them about it in random elevators, like, that I know that, like, that there’s this feeling that this is feminist!  And – but, but it’s more than that, and it’s because if you just do it the right way, it doesn’t have to be feminist, it could just be good –

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  – and I know, like, sometimes when I talk about it, I’m like, well, there’s, you know, there’s Jenny, and there’s Claire, and even the sort of weirdness of, you know, Laoghaire and, Laoghaire and all that, you know, like, all of these things are so layered, and it’s just that they’re people, which you don’t see very much.  Just the different kinds of women –

RHG:  Yep, right.

Barrie:  – different, you know, who are not, who are, you know, being, being this, you know, being themselves, like, women, and treat-, their lives treated with the same kind of weight as, like, Band of Brothers.

Sarah:  Yes.

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  That their, their lives are not –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah: – the motivation for the main character to go do something.

Barrie:  It’s, they’re not catalysts.

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  It’s real, you know, it’s real decision making, and, you know, to have that, and I, sometimes I feel, it may seem, I mean, this is the whole, like, it’s a precious, it’s a precious breakable object I don’t want anyone to smoosh.  Like, that’s the problem, like, I don’t want everybody, I don’t want it to be seen as a feminist series.  I want it to just be like, it’s good, and the secret is [whispers] because it’s feminist!  [Normal voice] You know?

Sarah:  Yes.  [Laughs]

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Don’t tell, don’t tell them.

Barrie:  Don’t tell anyone!

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  We have secretly replaced your television with Folgers feminism.  Let’s see if they notice.

Barrie:  Right, but they –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  And here’s the deal:  it’s sexy!  That Folgers is a way stronger cup.  It’s way sexier than any –

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  – like the, the regular old, like, like, every, every single – when you are doing female gaze, it’s always better.

Sarah:  Surprise!  It’s better this way!

Barrie:  I know.

RHG:  Right!

Barrie:  Totally.

Sarah:  And the amount of female gaze, once you see it –

Barrie:  It’s all over.

Sarah:  Yeah, once you see, like, once you notice it at work, you can’t not see it.  Like, it’s everywhere, you know?

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  Like, once you have observe – oh, oh, I see.  Whoa!  This is from – oh!  And then it’s everything.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie and RHG:  Yep.

RHG:  Yep.

Barrie:  Like when I went back to the beginning and I saw the first episode where they’re, like, you know, and he’s, like, you know, performing – this is not NPR, right?

RHG:  This is not NPR!  It’s so not.

Sarah:  This is so not NPR!

Barrie:  Sorry, I suddenly had a moment of where I was, like, completely stymied by what to – anyway, when he’s, like, giving her head in the castle, and this is, like, a thing, I was like, now when I go back I’m like, oh, my God, that was, like, a thesis statement!

Sarah:  Yeah!

Barrie:  For the show!  That wasn’t, like, that wasn’t just a random –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – let’s have a sexy moment.

Sarah:  Nope.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  That was a thesis.

RHG:  And hilariously, hilariously, if you listen to the podcast for –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – the first episode?  Like, that was the, the head that sparked a thousand think pieces, where people were like –

Barrie:  [Laughs]

RHG:  – and she put her hand on his head to direct him, and that was just such a statement, and –

Barrie:  Oh, my God!  [Laughs]

RHG:  – Ron’s like, yeah, that was just a choice she made, and that was the best take, so we used it, and now all of a sudden it’s a thing!  And I’m a huge feminist!  But I’m like, I’m a director.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  But really I’m just a person who did what the actress, who probably knows what to do, did.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And let her, gave her room to do it.

Barrie:  Right.  Exactly.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  No, it’s funny.  That’s the thing, like, going back and watching through, you can’t get away from all the choices that were made the right way.

Sarah:  I feel like cunnilingus think pieces would be a great anthology.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  Totally.  Cunni-think-us, totally.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  Cunni-think-us!  Oh, my God!

Barrie:  Do you think that domain name is taken?

Sarah:  I hope not!

Barrie:  Do you think something bad will happen if I type that into my work computer?

[Laughter]

Sarah:  Cunni-think-us!  I can’t –

Barrie:  I literally cannot tell you how many, like, image searches of Jamie there are on my work computer.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Like, probably it’s, like, there’s no excuse for it.  Like, it, there, literally, there’s no excuse.  I don’t know.

Sarah:  That was totally research, and we will back you up!

Barrie:  I know.  [Laughs]

RHG:  Absolutely; we’re here for you.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Oh, my God.  In. Sanity.  Also, Dougal, by the way, who is, like, that’s my kind of dude.  I’m just –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I mean, I know, not, not in, you know, just that I’m into that actor.  Just saying.  I love a good mustache, I love a bald man.  I mean, I’m married to one, in fact.

Sarah:  A bald mustache man?

Barrie:  No, not bald mustache, just bald.  But good bald.  Like a good shaved head.  I’m into a good shaved head.  Yeah.

Sarah:  Yes, there are many jokes that I could make –

RHG:  Yep.

Sarah:  – and I’m, they’re all running to the front of my brain right now –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – and they all clogged the exit, so just know they were there.

Barrie:  I know!  I know they were there.  I’m waving at them.  I’m like –

[Laughter]

RHG:  And all the ones that you didn’t have, I’ve got.

Barrie:  Yeah, good, okay.

Sarah:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I’m waving to you guys, too.

RHG:  All right.

Sarah:  So, are you guys concerned about the next season?

Barrie:  Yes.  This is difficult.

RHG:  It’s, yeah, it’s going to be –

Barrie:  Level of difficulty: high.

RHG:  Yeah, yeah, but –

Sarah:  What are you worried about?  That it’s not going to be as good?

RHG:  Well, I mean, it’s my favorite book –

Barrie:  Me too.

RHG:  – and all the, the whole Paris sequence?

Barrie:  Yes.

RHG:  It’s just like –

Barrie:  It’s hard.

RHG:  Everything, everything about it is stuff I love –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – and I’ve been happy with the casting, so far, news that’s come out.

Barrie:  Wait, I think I don’t know that news.  Can you tell me?

RHG:  I don’t have the names off the top –

Barrie:  Oh, okay.  No, but it’s no, yeah, there’s nothing –

RHG:  I didn’t know there was going to be a pop quiz here, Barrie.

Barrie:  No, I am so sorry!  I’m like,  I love how I’m like, I, it’s as though I don’t have internet.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Yes, but we have your email, and we can feed you all the infos.

Barrie:  God.  So, casting, you know casting, but you’re happy about it –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – and then you were saying.

RHG:  I, yeah, I’ve looked at these people and gone, yep, that more or less matches with what’s in my head.  I mean, I don’t have the total marriage to, well, it’s not what’s in my head, so I don’t watch it, kind of thing, or –

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RHG:  – I get real mad when –

Barrie:  I don’t care about –

RHG:  – RDM didn’t do what I – I, I don’t know.

Barrie:  Right.  Although he knows what he’s doing so far, I think.

RHG:  He knows what he’s doing, so I’m not worried about it.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.  I really love what’s-her-face, Cait-, Caitriona.  Like, I think he knew.

RHG:  Oh, God.

Barrie:  She’s so great.

RHG:  Oh, my God, oh, my God!

Barrie:  She’s a grownup!

RHG:  She’s a grownup!

Sarah:   Yes!  

Barrie:  A grown woman!

RHG:  A grown-ass woman who can yell at people –

Sarah:  – has agency!

Barrie:  Totally.

RHG:  Yes!

Barrie:  Yep.

Sarah:  And she doesn’t apologize for it, and she doesn’t wibble, like, oh, well, maybe I shouldn’t do this thing.  She’s like, this is what I think is best – get out of my way – and I have a knife.

Barrie:  Totally.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  Totally, and I, I am really, like, I am a, like, there’s something also, like, I realize I haven’t seen, like, there’s not a trace of ingénue about her.

RHG:  Hmm.

Sarah:  Nope!

Barrie:  Not a trace.  Where, I just, where do you see that in, I mean, unless it’s- unless it’s someone who’s bad –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – you only get a wicked witch.

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  And that is the thing, I mean, especially on television these days.  It’s so, that was just a real, that was huge for me.  It’s why I loved, like, playing house.  Like, those are two grownup women, you know.  I just don’t see grownup women without any ingénue scent on them.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  But so he knows what he’s doing, and I think we’re going to do well with –

RHG:  Yeah, I mean, I think the, the end of book two is just such a downer –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – that it’s, it’s going to be hard.  It’s going to be hard to watch –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – in a different way than the end of the first season was.

Barrie:  Right.  ‘Cause that was like, that was a little bit like you’re waiting for the red wedding.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Yeah.

Barrie:  That was how I felt.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I also, especially ‘cause I knew they were, I was like, at that point, they’re really committed to this.

RHG:  Right.  Right, they’re committed to it, and we already knew from episode six –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – that Tobias could be the most scary motherfucker on the planet.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Oh, my God.

Sarah:  Oh, my gosh.

Barrie:  Don’t you want him, at some point, to get a series where he gets to be something, like, I, I actually feel like I want to see him be the, I want to see him really, not that he’s not the main event here, but he isn’t, really.

RHG:  Uh-huh.

Barrie:  I, I want to see him get a great series.

RHG:  Have, he, he only has a small role in this, but have you seen Catastrophe?

Barrie:  Yes, I have!

RHG:  Yeah!

Barrie:  And he’s adorable.

RHG:  He’s adorable, although it took me a while to be like, that guy’s going to fuck everything up.  He’s scary.

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  He’s scary.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  No, I know, I know.  And I, and I felt the same way, you know.  Like, I, I, I was so bummed when they – have you guys seen – oh, my God, what’s it called?  You know, the Maggie Gyllenhaal.  An Honorable Woman.

RHG:  The Honorable – it’s –

Barrie:  The Honorable Woman.

RHG:  – on my list.  It’s on my list.

Barrie:  Yeah, I’ll be interested –

RHG:  Fancy that.

Barrie:  I, there, there are a lot of problems with it of the nature that we have been speaking about here, I think, so.

Sarah:  Random rapey-ness problems?

Barrie:  Rapey-ness that doesn’t work for, as – it’s like, this is not how story works.

Sarah:  Yeah.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  So if you just needed to have this woman – oh, my God, I hate the random – that’s the thing.  I don’t much like rape in any form, but the random rapey-ness.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  Like, this –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – this episode, you could lose this episode from the series and it wouldn’t touch the plot.

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  That, I hate that shit.  I really do.  However, I really enjoy, like, that was a fun one to watch, and he has a part in it, and I was disappointed at how, how small it was –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – ‘cause I think it was a, he’s pretty terrific.

Sarah:  I’m with you on the random rapey-ness.  I hate that it’s the only negative thing that some people think that can be visited upon a woman.

Barrie:  Yes!

RHG:  Yes.

Sarah:  Like, this is the worst thing that’s going to happen to you, so we’re going to make it happen to everybody –

Barrie:  Totally.

Sarah:  – but then even, and when you question – okay, first of all, if the audience can question why did you do that?  That there’s room for them to ask why, you already did it wrong.

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And if the answer is historical accuracy, you totally did it wrong –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – because you don’t have a reason other than, well, I needed something crappy to happen to this girl –

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  – and –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – you know, just, just, you know, ordinary things like assault or falling down the stairs or having someone be really uncool to her, having someone ruin her great, you know, multinational plot.  No, no, no, it’s got to be rape –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – that’s the only bad thing that happens to women.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Yeah, that, and then the second, the second thing that I also really, it, it’s either rape or you lose a child.

Sarah:  Yes!

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Like, that’s the, what’s the terrible movie with Sandra Bullock that everybody loved and George Clooney –

RHG:  The Blind Side?

Barrie:  No.  That is another one, but –

RHG:  Or Gravity.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  Gravity.

Barrie:  It’s like, okay, well, the only way we’re going to give this woman a personality is by having her have a dead child.  Like, that –

Sarah:  Right.

Barrie:  – it’s the same just completely – and it means that what we do is we completely reduce women to sex and motherhood.  Done.

Sarah:  Yep!

Barrie:  That’s it.

Sarah:  You’re either a mother or you’re grieving not being one or –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – you’re a virgin or you’re grieving not being one.

Barrie:  Right.  It’s, and it’s still –

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – I mean, it’s so obvious, I can’t, I want to know what writers’ room hasn’t, like, raised their hand and been like, hey, can I just point something out that’s been happening for ages?  Like, actual ages?

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I mean, I don’t, I do not understand it at all.

RHG:  Yeah.  I, I think that Gabaldon kind of goes into the rape bag way more than she needs to as –

Barrie:  Totally!

RHG:  – the series goes on.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  And should we get to, oh, I want to say it was A Breath of Snow and Ashes –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – where, like, everybody gets raped?

Barrie:  Oh, God.

RHG:  If we get that far –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – how ‘bout, like, we not.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  How ‘bout, like, we not?

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Sarah:  I agree.

Barrie:  I know.

RHG:  Why not.

Barrie:  Why is that the only catalyst?  Why can’t there be other bad – like, it’s funny, like, I, I mean, you think about the worst things that have happened in your life.  Like, it’s just so interesting to me that this is, I mean, God for-, like, terrible, those terrible things have not been visited upon me, and I, and I am lucky, and I know it, but it is interesting, like, the things, like, the bad days, the times I’ve spent sobbing in my, on my bed?

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  Like, those are real too.

Sarah:  Yep.

RHG:  Yep.

Barrie:  And, you know, that there is no continuum for the, like, you know – and it’s the same thing for men.  Like, the only bad thing that ever gets to happen to them is that they, like, you know, is that they go to Tarwa.

[Laughter]

Sarah:  Or the fact that in a lot of ways men are only publicly permitted to express –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – emotion, especially a negative emotion –

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  – if it is sports –

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  – or if it is, if it is something about their dad –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – or their, or their child –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – probably their son.  Like –

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:  – men are not permitted to express emotion, except in sports.  So, like, I watched this when, for example, when a sportscaster or a sports figure dies.  There is –

Barrie:  Mmm.  Then he gets really into it.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  It’s like this huge vortex of emotion and sports and permissible grieving among men, and it’s, it’s, it’s like they all one-up each other in how sad they are.

Barrie:  Because it’s the only time they get to let it out!

Sarah:  Exactly!

Barrie:  They don’t have a podcast like this!

Sarah:  It’s – yes.

Barrie:  Like I have a place.  Yeah!

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  There’s no, there’re smart, no smart dudes.

Sarah:  No, no, and, and –

RHG:  No.

Sarah:  – one of the things that I know frustrates the hell out of my husband is that the, the portrayal of fatherhood in most entertainment media is, you know, bumbling or distant or idiot –

Barrie:  I hate that.

Sarah:  – or, or incompetent or uninvolved or disinterested or –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – always, always baffled.

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  And yet, all of the dads who I meet –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – are, like, totally fluent in being a father.

Barrie:  Yep.

Sarah:  And it doesn’t faze –

Barrie:  And, and are all fine.

Sarah:  Yeah, they’re all like, yeah, no worries.

Barrie:  Yeah, right, yeah.

Sarah:  I’m a stay-at-home dad.  No problems here.

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I am fully comfortable with my masculinity.

Barrie:  Yep.  I know, yeah.

Sarah:  Things are good.  And so as that distance between the reality and the media portrayal widens, I’m like, when, when the next thing comes up that shows actual emotionally fluent men comfortable with caretaking roles, we’re all going to be like –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – yes!  You get a spot on the shelf next to Outlander!

Barrie:  Yes.

Sarah:  We’re going to watch you over and over!

Barrie:  Well, I felt like we’re getting there with Catastrophe.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  Oh, you might be right!

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I think Catastrophe, it’s funny, my husband said exactly the same thing when we were watching it.  He was like, oh, this is a, this is a father.  This is a father that I recognize.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  Yes.  This is –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – this is a parent who is real, as opposed to, uhhh, well, we can’t have man-feels.

Barrie:  Right.  And actually, and it’s still, I mean, the thing is that they, like, there’s plenty of humor to be mined in a, in a competent father.

RHG and Sarah:  Yes!

Barrie:  I mean, we mine it every day at my house, you know?

RHG:  Uh-huh.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  There is plenty of humor and feel-, like, all of those, and emotion, and I do think, actually, it’s clear that we’re getting it.  Like, Judd Apatow is becoming, maybe becoming a grownup.  He’s not there yet.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  But, and I still, like, I can’t with Knocked Up and I, you know, and, but as he, you know, deep into his forties, becomes a mature adult –

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  – [laughs] – deep.  I –

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I, you know, I can see the culture is moving toward it.  It’s just shocking to me how slowly it’s moving.

Sarah:  Yes.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  And that –

RHG:  ‘Cause, ‘cause, dudes, you’re the ones who are making all of the media, and then you complain that all, like, you have the, the stupid fat guy with the hot wife?

Barrie:  I know.

RHG:  And you’re like, this is all the portrayal of men you get!  One, that’s not true.

Barrie:  No.

RHG:  That’s not true.  Two, you’re the ones making it!

Sarah:  Yes!  [Laughs]

RHG:  You’re the ones making it!  So –

Sarah:  You should blame yourselves.

RHG:  – you’re the ones with the power to change that.

Barrie:  Yeah.  No, it’s fascinating.  I think it, I mean, that’s why the – now I’m going to feel just comfortable saying things like RDM – [laughs]

Sarah:  Hey, you, we, we’ve hipped you to the lingo.

RHG:  We’ve won!  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Totally!  I’m just going to try to, I’m just going to own that for a minute –

RHG:  Yay!

Barrie:  – even though I’ve never used that acronym.  So, anyway.  But I think the Moore, like, clearly the RDMs of the world who are, you know, fluent in their – there’s something happening in his writers’ room, and I, you know, I hope it is, I hope it is happening all over Hollywood.  I think it happened in a lot of, I think – it’s interesting.  Like, I have mixed feel-, I love Mad Men.  I think it is so fascinating, and clearly that was, like, a real conversation that was happening in that room.

Sarah:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:   I mean, I know it was.  And, but the product is still a product of, you know, that leaped fully formed from the head of Matt Weiner, and that’s – but I think we are moving towards something right now.

Sarah:  I agree.  I agree.

Barrie:  And that, and I loved watching it.  I love watching it when it is, like, prestige television?  Like, Outlander, I love watching it when it’s Empire.  Oh, my God.  I love watching it when it’s Empire.

RHG:  Oh, my God, Empire.

Barrie:  I mean, I almost downloaded that shit.  Like, I, like, the album, I mean.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Like, I literally, the other day I was doing laundry, and I was like, drip drop, like I suddenly was drip dropping.  Like, it was real sad.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Anyway, but I, you know, there’s so much happening, and it, I think the fact that it’s happening at all these different levels is, there’s something, it’s, it’s, it’s slowly changing.  It really, it is.  It, I, I have to feel good about it, because it’s been a long drought.  Don’t you feel?

Sarah:  It has.  Very long drought.

RHG:  Yes.  And I think –

Barrie:  Been a long time since I stayed home to watch Murphy Brown, you know what I mean?

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  Oh, Murphy Brown.

RHG:  And I – [laughs]

Barrie:  Oh, Murph.  [Laughs]

Sarah:  I was looking at –

RHG:  I think that –

Sarah:  – Tumblr the other day, and someone was posting screencaps of an episode of Sesame Street –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – and I want to say it was Buffy Sainte-Marie?

Barrie:  Oh!

Sarah:  Who was breastfeeding.  Next to Big Bird.  On TV.  And Big Bird’s like –

RHG:  What?

Sarah:  – what are you doing?  And she’s like, I’m feeding my baby.  This is what breasts do.  And this was, I want to say –

Barrie:  Oh, my God.

Sarah:  – I was maybe three or four years old, so like ’78?  I’d, I’d have to look it up, and I’m ninety percent sure it was Buffy Sainte-Marie, but seriously, breastfeeding, and Big Bird’s like, oh, okay!  That’s cool!  Whatever.  That would never happen now.

Barrie:  Never.

Sarah:  Like, we need to get –

Barrie:  And if it did, it would be weird.  They would do it in a way that was somehow meant to shame formula-feeding women.  Do you know what I mean?

[Laughter]

Sarah:  Yes!

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  Like, it wouldn’t be, like, normal.

Sarah:  Yes.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  They would somehow, it would somehow get screwed up.

Sarah:  Yep.  And, and then it was sort of like, well, this is how I roll.  That, that sort of attitude was like, oh, okay!  That’s cool!  And it, oh, I, I wish we had more of that.  You know?

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Just the calm.  There was, there’s been a, it’s been a long time since, like, 1986, I feel like.  There was, like, a, there was a moment where things just got worse for a long time, but now we’re back, we’re back!

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  It’s happening!

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  And ‘cause there’s so much content!

Sarah:  And there’s so much of us talking to each other about that content, and you can’t hide that.

Barrie:  Yeah.  That’s exactly it.  That’s, that’s –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – that’s the thing that is so great.  That’s the internet, guys!

RHG:  That’s the internet, guys.  And one of the things that Matt Weiner and RDM –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  See, I just do that naturally.

Barrie:  I know.  Yeah.

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I got a little thrill.

RHG:  Yeah – [laughs] – have done is, they have pointedly put women in as episode writers and as episode directors.

Barrie:  Yes, them.

RHG:  And Game of Thrones –

Barrie:  ‘Cause it’s not just the words, it’s the eye.  Yep.

RHG:  Right, and I think we’re seeing a sea change of female show runners and Hollywood movie directors coming from that stable.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  Game of Thrones had a number of female directors up to season three, and it shows.

Sarah:  You don’t say.

RHG:  I do say!

Sarah:  I am shocked.

Barrie:  I –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  That is really, I’m so disappointed, guys.  I want to like those guys.

Sarah:  There are a lot of, of show runners and writers in television that I would really like to be like, okay, dude –

Barrie:  I know you’re better than this.

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I’ve seen better.  Let’s do that instead.

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  Okay.

Barrie:  And there’s, and I also remember, do, did you read the Vanity Fair article on, on those, and you know, they both have, like Ph.D.s and, I mean, they’re, like, they’re a certain kind of academic that, like, makes me wonder, how did you never run into the women’s studies department?

[Laughter]

Barrie:  Like, didn’t you know where all the, didn’t you know where all the professors were?

Sarah:  Was it only one person and she wasn’t there that day?

Barrie:  Right!  I just don’t understand –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – how you didn’t come across it in the academy.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Like, I really don’t get it, ‘cause, I mean, the first day I got there, I called my dad and was like, did you know gender doesn’t exist?  He was like, I’m so glad you’re paying for it!

RHG:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  You know what I mean?  I, I don’t understand how you miss it, and that’s what, you know – because, I mean, there’re so many problems in Hollywood as far as, you know, the pipeline, right?

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  But one thing there isn’t a problem of is, like, Harvard-educated white dudes, and, which is a pro-, which, you know, we know is, but didn’t those dudes, don’t they know at this point, because they, you know, the academy does have, you know, there’re plenty of people in the ivory tower who are writing about gender and writing about – like, I just don’t understand why that wouldn’t – oh, my God, I’m such a Pollyanna.

RHG:  There’s, there’s a certain –

Barrie:  I’m so not – that’s what I’m saying.

RHG:  – class of, of white, white dude nerd –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – that just, it doesn’t occur to them, and when you try, when you’re like, look, it’s right here, let me describe it for your in excruciating terms, because you’re nerds, and that’s what you do –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  I love nerds, they’re my people, but God.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Me too.

RHG:  Oh, God.  [Laughs] And they’re like, no!  That doesn’t, that’s illogical.  I’m like, of course it’s illogical!  That’s why it’s dumb!  [Laughs]

Barrie:  So really, there’s, like, actually a small dude in their head that’s erasing a blackboard as you’re talking.

RHG:  Yes!  Yes!

Barrie:  ‘Cause he’s like, oh, no!

Sarah:  This, this does not match my experience –

RHG:  So –

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  – I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Barrie:  They don’t want to know.

RHG:  Why are – well, clearly if you’re trying to make there be more women, that means that it’s not fair –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – to give women more opportunities than I do, ‘cause that would be taking away from me, and then you get into this whole thing of, but you’ve had it your entire fucking existence.

Barrie:  I know.  It’s like, why can’t there be, like, why does there need to be Ms. magazine?  It’s ‘cause the rest of the fucking shit is for you –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – and has been for eternity!

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  It’s ‘cause those stone tablets that we stood on a mountain were like, could you read this?  Were written by a white dude! 

RHG:  Right, right.

Barrie:  But you know what I’m saying.  Like, that’s –

RHG:  Exactly, yes.  Exactly.

Barrie:  It’s so, it is so crazy.  It makes me, it make me, it makes me real crazy.

RHG:  Right.  Why isn’t there a men’s history month?  That’s all of history!

Sarah:  That’s all of the rest of them.

RHG:  All of it.

Barrie:  That’s right.  You get the other ones.  You get the other eleven.

Sarah:  You get eleven out of twelve, you’re going to be, have to happy, just be satisfied with that.

Barrie:  Yeah.  You’ll be –

Sarah:  But the thing about Outlander is that you’re seeing women –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – being strong and making really ugly, difficult choices and getting shit done –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – and so you have this presentation of women to a female audience, and allowing that audience to say, oh, I totally recognize myself here!

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  I’m not the victim!

Barrie:  And they’re doing it in a scaffolding that is not, that doesn’t have the, I mean, in the absolute worst time for women.

Sarah:  Yeah!

Barrie:  You know, the fact that she’s making these decisions, that she and Geillis can figure this out, these, like, these moments of, like, women helping women, despite this, you know, the, the fact that feminism doesn’t exist?  You know –

Sarah:  Yes –  and they find a way around it –

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – which means that, as we have long known, women throughout history have found a way around it.

Barrie:  Yep.

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  And –

RHG:  Exactly.

Sarah:  – the idea that all of these, all of these women viewers get to look at Outlander and see a more accurate representation of themselves, and that that’s so much, that’s so much more true in television now –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  – that the audience is being reflected more accurately in what they’re seeing –

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Sarah:  – slowly more and more – happy joy joy dance in my – it just makes me so happy.

RHG:  Right!

Barrie:  No, me too!  I think one of my, for me, one of, like, my favorite feminist things about the book and about the, the series is just this totally – I love all of the sort of, like, more heavy-handed stuff, but the, the small thing, that Jamie just immediately believes her.

Sarah:  Yes!

RHG:  Oh, God, yes.

Barrie:  Because I know my husband would believe me if was like, here’s the thing, dude.  I have time traveled here.

Sarah:  And –

Barrie:  He would actually be like, oh, my God!  Totally!  From Tudor England?  I knew it!

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Everything suddenly makes much more sense.  Okay.

Barrie:  It all falls into place, but the fact, like, that, in and of itself, is the kind of very small thing in both the books and whatever, the, the series is built upon.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  Because that’s what really, real relationships do.

Sarah:  Yes –

RHG:  Yeah.

Sarah:  – and that he knows her well enough to know that she’s not lying?

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  And then, okay, what she is saying is completely bananas –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – but it must be true.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  But I got you.

Sarah:  And then he –

RHG:  And, I got you.  I need a minute.  I need a minute.

Sarah:  Just give me a sec.  Okay.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  And then he tells his sister, listen, if she tells you funky stuff, listen.

Barrie:  She know you, right, exactly.

RHG:  Yeah.  Yeah, and –

Barrie:  That’s one of my favorite things.

RHG:  – and the, the moment where she tells Father Anselm that she time-traveled, and he’s, he’s just, and she looks at him like, you’re totally going to burn me now or something, and he’s –

Barrie:  Right.

RHG:  – just like, go on.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  Yeah.

Sarah:  If you think I have not seen some freaky-ass shit in my lifetime –

RHG:  I, yeah.  I’ve seen some shit.  I’ve seen some shit, and, like, the, the sort of the full-body –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – okay?  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Uh-huh?

Barrie:  Yep.  Keep going.  Continue.

RHG:  Carry on.

Barrie:  Yep.  Keep going.  Yeah.

RHG:  I just want him, I, I wish, I would love to see more with him.  I mean, I know –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – that we’re not going to, but he was a great character and a great actor.

Barrie:  Totally.  And with that, you know, he’s really sold, it was a small moment that was, again, like, integral to the whole world of the show, which is real people being people.

Sarah:  Yes, and that –

Barrie:  In a completely bananas situation in a fantasy/science fiction genre, like –

Sarah:  Yes.

Barrie:  – the genre-bending situation.

Sarah:  It’s super –

Barrie:  It just goes to show you, if you can put anything into any, if you have story and you have –

Sarah:  That’s – sing it!

Barrie:  – you can make it do anything!

Sarah:  Yes!  I’m holding up my lighter again.

Barrie:  I mean, this is what opera is!  This is the whole, you know, like, I, I have to say, I mean, this is the thing I love about opera is that it’s ridiculous that, like, a woman is going to sing an aria before she throws herself off the battle-, battlements, but, like –

Sarah:  It happens!

Barrie:  – that’s the thing!

Sarah:  Yep.

Barrie:  You have to believe it.  I, yeah, I really –

Sarah:  Madame Butterfly sung for a real long time before she got that hatpin out and jammed herself in the neck.

Barrie:  Exactly.  I mean you –

Sarah:  It was a very long song.

RHG:  Spoilers.  Spoilers.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I think I might go a lot, there might be a lot of Sondheim involved before I did that myself, but I, yeah, I can, I, no.  I mean, that’s the thing.  That’s, it’s, you can make them do anything, and she, yeah, she is – have you guys read the, the ancillary, the John Grey novels?

RHG:  I’ve read two of them.

Sarah:  I have not.

Barrie:  And you feel how about them?

RHG:  I feel perfectly okay about them?

Barrie:  Mm-hmm?

RHG:  I, I have, I think, I think it’s the first one that I have, but they were coming out as I, like, had no money.

Barrie:  Ah, right.  Right.

RHG:  Which is a thing.  [Laughs]

Barrie:  I know; that is such bad timing.  Come on, authors.

RHG:  So, I know, right?

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  Life is so annoying.

Barrie:  It is.

RHG:  Ugh, money!

Barrie:  [Laughs]

RHG:  But I, I’ve always enjoyed John Grey as a character –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  – and I really, really liked how his and Jamie’s relationship was sort of built up.

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

RHG:  In totally ridiculous circumstances, but it, it came down to both of them treating each other like they were people?

Barrie:  Yeah!  No, it was still real.  So I just am trying, yeah, I’m trying to decide whether I need to put my reading energy into the rest of the Outlander – like, what, I’m just, I need to, like, direct, I need to direct my firepower here.

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  That’s what I was, that’s, that’s, that’s what that’s about.

Sarah:  Totally.

Barrie:  But I do need to, yeah, I need to, I’m kind of saving the rest of the series, even though I know there’s going to be, you know, some pro-, like, I just, I like those first three books so much –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – that I almo-, it’s the same, I have the same problem that I do with the series.  I, I just want to be frozen in time and keep re-watching again and again and again.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I’ve been re-reading – so I always have, like, a bedtime book, a book that I read with my face –

RHG:  Mm-hmm.

Barrie:  – planted on the pillow and half an eye on my, my phone Kindle, which I know is the worst sleep hygiene that anyone can ever have –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  And Outlander, actually, Dragonfly, has been my bedtime book for a while now.  It’s just, like, I read, you know, like, twenty pages before I go, go to bed, after my full book.  ‘Cause it’s such a nice thing to think about.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  I just, I love going to sleep in that world.  That’s –

Sarah:  Isn’t it nice that there’s a world that is so wonderful that you want to visit it, and you can visit it in multiple ways now?

Barrie:  I know.  I really –

Sarah:  Yay!

Barrie:  I want to see the musical.

Sarah:  Oh, my gosh.  That would be amazing.

RHG:  That’s probably another 10 years.

Barrie:  I know.  Doesn’t –

RHG:  It’ll hap-, it’ll happen, though.  It’ll happen.

Sarah:  It has to.

Barrie:  Doesn’t it, isn’t that the greatest idea?

RHG:  Yes.

Barrie:  I just feel like –

RHG:  And you should definitely, like, trademark it or –

Barrie:  No!  I think it exists, you guys!

RHG:  What?!

Barrie:  Did I make that up?

Sarah:  Outlander the Musical?

Barrie:  ‘Kay, we need to, we need to visit my friend Google, but I don’t have computer.

Sarah:  Hang on.  I’m on it.

Barrie:  Okay, make it happen.

Sarah:  Outlander: The Musical.

Barrie:  I thought it was a thing!

Sarah:  Outlander: The Musical –

Barrie:  Somebody literally – by the way, this is –

RHG:  WHAT THE EVER-, oh, my God.

Barrie:  This is literally a thing a person told me in the checkout line at the supermarket, by the way.  Like, that this –

Sarah:  Yeah, there was a musical.

RHG:  That’s, like, frigging – yeah.

Sarah:  Outlander: The Musical –

Barrie:  We need to go watch it and then meet back here with more wine.

Sarah:  Yes, outlanderthemusical.com.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.

RHG:  Oh, my God.

Barrie:  Okay, wait –

Sarah:  Based on the novel –

Barrie:  Uh-huh.

Sarah:  Wow!  Yeah!

Barrie:  Because it’s the best idea ever.

Sarah:  I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s being performed, but you can purchase things.

Barrie:  [Sings] How do you solve a problem like Black Jack Randall?  [Talks] Like, I just feel like you could totally, I just want to, I love it.  I love it so much.  I think it would be the funnest.

Sarah:  As long as they could restrain themselves with use of the fog machine, this would rock!

Barrie:  Yeah.  That’s true, ‘cause you could really fog it up.

Sarah:  Yeah, you could really mess up with the fog machine.  That’d be a little too much.

Barrie:  Too much, but it would also be easy to stage, ‘cause it would just be, like, everything that you’d either have outdoor or Leoch or like – you know what I mean?

Sarah:  Yeah.

Barrie:  I feel like, or, and Lallybroch could just be Leoch turned around.

Sarah:  Yeah, this was a thing, apparently, that happened, and it doesn’t seem to be happening again, but there’s a website.  It’s very purple.

Barrie:  Well, your kids are older than mine.  I feel like this is a thing you should bring to some theater director.  

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  You need to make friends with, like, some awesome theater director who has, like, a really great blue streak in her hair.  

Sarah:  Yeah…

Barrie:  Don’t you, don’t you, do you know what I mean?  I can see this woman.  She’s a real person.  I’m going to find – I wish my kids were just a hair older.

Sarah:  There’s a song called “I Am Ready,” sung by Jamie.  That could go either way.

Barrie:  Oh, my God!  That’s a toughie.

Sarah:  But you know, the Amazon reviews are very positive, and, and they don’t appear to all be from people who are related to the director, so that’s good.

RHG:  Okay, that’s a good sign.

Barrie:  That – really?  Yeah.

Sarah:  Okay, I, I, I, RedHeadedGirl, I think that for the sake of science, you might need to check this out.

Barrie:  I think so too.

RHG:  I – [laughs] – well –

Barrie:  I’m, I, I second that.  And third it.

RHG:  – never let it be said that I could really stand up to peer pressure very well.

Sarah:  Okay, good, ‘cause we, we’re going to pressure you harder if you try.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  I got, wait, does it exist on, so it was a live thing.  It’s not, it doesn’t exist; there’s no, like, DVD, or –

Sarah:  I don’t think so.

RHG:  Apparently not.

Sarah:  I’m only finding the music.

Barrie:  – or VHS?

Sarah:  I’m only finding the music and the soundtrack from the production.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  Oh, okay.

Sarah:  And there’s, like, there’s something on Diana Gabaldon’s site –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm.

Sarah:  And, and he came to her, this – okay, several years, a lovely man named Mike Gibb came to me in Scotland and told me that 1) he was a lyricist and playwright, and 2) he’d fallen in love with Outlander, and with his friend, Kevin Walsh, wanted to do a stage production of Outlander: The Musical.  And as I recall, I said, that’s the screwiest idea I’ve heard – go ahead.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.

Sarah:  And the stage production is in development, but this was, this was posted in, like, 2010 or 2012?

RHG:  Yeah, 2010.

Sarah:  Yeah, so, yeah, this, this was a thing.

RHG:  ‘Kay.

Barrie:  It’s the greatest!  Now I just want an opera, and then we’re good.

RHG:  Okay.

Sarah:  That, that’s got to be –

Barrie:  Don’t you feel like?

Sarah:  – some kind of, like, it’s not a hat trick, and it’s not an EGOT, but, like, you have the book –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – television series –

Barrie:  Right.

Sarah:  – the musical, the opera, and then, like, you’ve got them all, right?

Barrie:  Yeah –

RHG:  No, you need a ballet.

Barrie:  – well, then you need –

Sarah:  Oh, ballet, yes.

Barrie:  – ballet, and you probably need it to be reset in a different time, as well, right?

Sarah:  Sort of like Shakespeare, like Shakespeare plays getting set in, like the ‘20s and –

Barrie:  Totally.

Sarah:  Yeah, totally.

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  Right, or just, you know fifty shades it up.

Barrie:  Oh, yeah.

Sarah:  Fifty –

Barrie:  I mean, it already, the funny thing is, is it is, like, it’s just, like, intelligent fifty – do you know what I mean?  It has, like –

Sarah:  Yeah.

Barrie:  – a lot of the – yeah.  And it’s super intel- – I love it so much, you guys.  It’s my – I love that I’m, by the way, doing this podcast, like, this is so – [laughs] – in my bedroom with a glass of red wine.

Sarah:  That’s how it should be done.

RHG:  That’s right.

Barrie:  Yeah.  I’m covered in a faux fur something.  It’s the funnest.  I’m, I’m really happy.  The next thing I want is to sleep outside.

Sarah:  See, I think you need to get Linda, you need to get Linda on the horn and be like, that studio, we need some fur and some wine.

Barrie:  I know.  Well, everything needs more fur and more wine.

Sarah:  Yeah!

RHG:  Absolutely.

Barrie:  Clearly.  You know, at my desk I have a sheepskin rug, ‘cause I just need to have fuzz around me.

Sarah:  Good!

Barrie:  Yeah, yeah.

Sarah:  Very good!

Barrie:  I know what I’m doing.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  There’s also a booze drawer, but, you know.

RHG:  Well –

Barrie:  That’s between us, ladies.

RHG:  – that’s – [laughs] – that’s exactly what I would expect out of NPR.

Barrie:  [Laughs]

Sarah:  So, do you guys have any last thoughts about Outlander?

Barrie:  I don’t have last thoughts; I just have –

RHG:  Yeah, right!  [Laughs]

Sarah:  Do you have more –

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – I can give you the last ones right now.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Right!  [Laughs]

Barrie:  You go first.

RHG:  Multiple people were robbed at the Emmys.

Sarah:  Oh, Lord, yes.

Barrie:  Well, that’s always the case.

RHG:  Multiple, multiple people.  It’s, it’s always the case, but I’m truly –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – I mean, I don’t have – Hannibal wasn’t eligible this year, so I focused all of my Hannibal Emmy snub rage into Outlander Emmy snub rage –

Barrie:  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

RHG:  – and Tobias was, Tobias especially was, like, super robbed.

Barrie:  Yeah.  I mean, like I said, I want to, I want the Game of Thrones thing, I just want this series to be recognized for what it’s doing, and because it’s not doing –

Sarah:  That other stuff.

Barrie:  – that other shit –

RHG:  Right.

Sarah:  Yeah.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  – and that’s – [sighs] – I know people have to make a living, but I just, at some point I just want one – don’t you feel like the Sansa actress or the Arya actress is going to just take, cast an eye over to Outlander and be like, oh, hey –

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  – you know –

Sarah:  Listen, y’all, I’m available for a little guest spot if you need.  I need –

Barrie:  Right, exactly, and there’s –

Sarah:  – to cleanse my palate.

RHG:  Hey!

Barrie:  – a lot of stuff coming up that we could use you for, you know?

RHG:  Right.  I have put my name on a petition for Sophie Turner to be considered for Brianna.

Barrie:  I think she would, that is –

Sarah:  Oooh!

Barrie:  – genius.

RHG:  Right?

Barrie:  That is a genius idea.

Sarah:  That is a petition worth putting your name on.

RHG:  Yeah.

Barrie:  ‘Cause she could really do that flashy-eyed what?  Like, yeah.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  Total, total flashy-eyed what.

RHG:  Absolutely.

Barrie:  Yeah.  I mean, they could do, I mean, I, I appreciate the amount of women that are acting in that series.  I just want them to be doing, saying and doing better stuff.

RHG:  Yes.

Barrie:  But yeah.  No, I’m with you.  Totally robbed.  It’s really, it is beautifully made.  It is beautifully shot.  I love every, I mean, we didn’t talk about just the, the, you know, the little lacy underthings of the piece are amazing, you know.

RHG:  Right.

Barrie:  The, I love the title sequence.  I adore, I mean, I find, I’ve been singing “Over the sea to Skye” to my baby at night –

Sarah:  Aw!

Barrie:  – and he appears to be enjoying it.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

Barrie:  And I too have changed the words, so he knows.  And I –

Sarah:  Aw.

Barrie:  – you know, I mean, just the little, the costumes, the, the shoo-, I mean, it is beautifully done.

RHG:  Right.  The costumes and the fact that we’ve had multiple, like, here are all the layers to the costumes –

Barrie:  Yeah.

RHG:  – which makes me, as a costume nerd historian –

Barrie:  Oh, yeah.

RHG:  – so happy, and I know those scenes were put in just for me.

Sarah:  Oh, those were totally for you.

Barrie:  Yeah, totally.

RHG:  Personally.

Barrie:  Oh, my God.

RHG:  And I appreciate, Ron.  I appreciate it.

Sarah:  And then –

Barrie:  Yeah.  The embroidery on the wedding dress –

Everybody:  Oh, my God.

Barrie:  Yeah, the color.

RHG:  The color, everything.  I mean, it’s – that, that was one of the things that the Poutlanders got all up in arms about was, well, it’s not how it’s described in the book!  Yeah, but, look at it.

Sarah:  It’s beautiful.

Barrie:  Yeah, it is, it’s beautiful –

RHG:  Look at it.

Barrie:  – and it is what you want.  It is, you know, and again, it’s the difference between – like, it still fee-, it still smells like book, you know what I mean?  

RHG:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Barrie:  That’s, that’s all I want.

RHG:  Yes.

Barrie:  Yeah.  Yeah.

RHG:  Page and screen are different mediums.

Barrie:  Yeah!

Sarah:  Yep.

RHG:  And it’s just –

Barrie:  And they get to be!

RHG:  They get to be, and that’s good.

Barrie:  Yeah, it means you get more, not less.

RHG:  Yeah.  Yeah.

Sarah:  Totally.

Barrie:  I agree with you.  I totally agree with you.  And all your parting thoughts I agree with –

RHG:  Yay!

Barrie:  – and probably all the thoughts you have to come I agree with too.

[Laughter]

Barrie:  This is terrible.  I feel like I just got invited to a lunch table and I cannot hold my own.

Sarah:  [Laughs] No!

Barrie:  It’s really terrible.  I’m like, yeah, I love, I love sloppy joes too.

Sarah:  [Laughs]

RHG:  Sloppy joes are delicious.

Barrie: True.

Sarah:  You are so at the right table.

RHG:  You’re absolutely at the right table.

Barrie:  I totally love it.  Oh, God.

Sarah:  Can I say thank you for joining us tonight, ‘cause this has been so fun?

Barrie:  I, this is the most – I, I am speechless, which never ever happens.

Sarah:  Yay!

Barrie:  I have had so much fun.  I really feel like a giant itch has been scratched.  I’m going to take a deep breath.

Sarah:  Oh, we’re so here for you.

Barrie:  I’m going to drink more wine, and we’re going to keep talking.

Sarah:  Yay!

RHG:  Absolutely, and –

Sarah:  You want to do this again after season two starts?  We would love it.

Barrie:  Oh, yes!

RHG:  Yes.

Barrie:  Oh, my God, when, and do we know anything about that?

RHG:  We know spring.

Barrie:  Okay.  Oh, my God, when spring is sprung –

RHG:  When spring is sprung –

Sarah:  We are on it.

Barrie:  Happy lady, yes!  Yes.  Get back to me, please, please, please.

RHG:  Absolutely, and if you feel the need to have more feels at either of us, you have our Skype.

Sarah:  We are so here!

[music]

Sarah:  And that is all for this week’s episode.  I want to thank Barrie Hardymon for a really fun conversation.  I have a feeling that once season two starts we’ll be checking in with her, because, well, she has a lot to say, and a lot of it’s funny, right?  ‘Cause it’s pretty awesome!

This podcast was brought to you by InterMix, publisher of New York Times bestselling author Jessica Clare’s The Billionaire Takes a Bride, the latest Billionaires and Bridesmaids novel, where a lie unexpectedly turns to love.  Download it in on October20th.

The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater.  You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater.  This is the Peatbog Faeries.  This is their brand new album Blackhouse, and this is called “The Ranch.”  You can download it on Amazon or iTunes or wherever you like to buy music.

If you have opinions or suggestions, or you want to ask Barrie Hardymon a question, or you have things to say about Outlander, or you just want to talk to us, please email us:  [email protected].  We love to hear from you!

And on behalf of Barrie Hardymon, RedHeadedGirl, Jane, and myself, we wish you the very best of reading.  Have a great weekend.

[moving music]