Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Victoria Dahl’s wonderful contemps seem to be child-free (I don’t remember discussions that anklebitters were verboten, but you never see any and they never moon over having them).

Bella Andre and Jami Alden also do super steamy contemps with no babies at the end.

And I made a conscious decision to keep the main couple of my second historical (Lord Scandal) baby-free. It’s OOP, but I know you can get it used for like a penny, and maybe still as an eBook on Amazon.

Shelly Laurenston has a contemporary supernatural called Pack Challenge where the main characters explicitly do not want children, and don’t change their mind in the epilogue.
Edit: Also, it’s really funny, I really enjoy her work. I have not had my coffee yet so I somehow manage to forget that last bit.

Anyone but you by Jennifer Crusie features a heroine who’s 10 years older than her lover. Neither of them want children. It’s a fantastic and fun book!

While I cannot think of any specific Good Shit, Shit to Avoid would be -

Debbie Macomber.  She kind of straddles the fence between women’s fiction and romance, but it’s all contemporary from her…and definitely NOT the best if you don’t want kids.  Her books are good at saying that the classic Suburban Home/2.5 kids/Husband scenario isn’t for everyone, but it always seems like that’s the thing for her heroines. 

I’ll watch the thread for suggestions - The baby ideal throughout an entire book makes me cringe.

Good HABO subject! I would love to find some historicals with non-kid-wanting heroines, myself. Or more paranormals—and I’ll have to check out Laurenston.

Shelley Laurenston - now why didn’t I think of her yesterday when we were discussing LOL moments!

JD ROBB.  Eve Dallas is rather like me, holds one if she must but it will probably be at arm’s length!  Nora Roberts (as JDRobb) has apparently stated that if Eve ever decides to have kids, that will be the end of the series. .. but at the moment, the series is about 30 books of kidless murdersolving with great characters.

Also Janet Evanovich = hilarious.

If you’re looking for category romance, I would recommend the Modern Heat line (sometimes, though not always, published in the US as Presents Extra).  These books feature much more realistic contemporary settings than Modern/Presents books, and very often have a HEA that doesn’t involve marriage or kids.  I don’t know that the heroines specifically don’t want kids, just that the subject tends not to come up nearly as often as in other category lines.

Graceling by Kristin Cashore features a hero/heroine who don’t want to get married. They come to the realization that being together doesn’t mean they have to get married. I’m pretty sure they’re both against having kids (themselves) and that they stay true to that throughout the whole book. Cashore’s third book (which will feature these characters) will show us if they end up getting married or having kids. But I don’t think they will on both counts.

I know I know of more books but I can’t think of them right now. If I do, I’ll be back!

As someone in the same situation (the don’t-want-/can’t-have-kids “situation”), I’ve often sought out books like this, with varied success…

Julie James has three contemporaries out, none of which include kiddies or the prelude to kiddies, and her most recent doesn’t even include the requisite “marry me and maybe someday spawn my children” scene (which I find refreshing). She’s an incredibly witty and intelligent writer, and I’ve reread her work many, many times.

Kresley Cole writes contemporary paranormals (but her backlist includes historicals, as well) and is best known for her “Immortals After Dark” series. While the idea of children and, in one book, pregnancy, comes into play, it’s tastefully done, and not every H/h pairing indicates that child-bearing/rearing is in their future. Again, refreshing, considering how often the trope of will-my-baby-even-be-human? comes up in paranormal romances. Plus, Ms. Cole’s writing is hilarious and gripping.

OMG, Shelley Laurenston ROCKS! Everytime I re-read that series I laugh out loud. I luf her.

She also writes under GA Aiken-but the dragon series does have lots of baby dragons involved.

coming88: I hope Shelley comes out with 88 more books!

Jeaniene Frost’s Night Huntress and Night Huntress World series - vampires can’t procreate so no babies in this series

Patricia Briggs - Alpha and Omega series - werewolf females cannot have children

I will second Pack Challenge by Shelly Laurenston - both the leads never want kids

As a single woman who does NOT want kids (it’s not that I dislike them, I just don’t want my own), I looooved Bet Me.  Speaking of Crusie, didn’t they not have kids in The Cinderella Deal either?  It’s been a few months since I read it.

I’m fairly new to the genre, but I’d imagine there are more no-kid contemporaries than historicals, because in the “olden days” it was expected you’d start a family.  However, Bryn Donovan’s An Experienced Mistress doesn’t involve children, and in Laura Kinsale’s Lessons in French, they have a baby, but it’s only mentioned very briefly at the end.

And A-freaking-men on the awesome Julie James (a fellow Chicagoan!).  Practice Makes Perfect rocked my world and was deliciously kid-free.

Jayne Ann Krevtz/Amanda Quick/Jayne Castle seem to be pretty baby free.

I clicked on the comments to come say Shelly Laurenston and Pack Challenge.  And it was the second comment in.

iirc, her book Hunting Ground(?) is childfree.  It’s been a while, but I think they’re all dead, so children kind of aren’t an option.  Of course being dead doesn’t mean you can’t have a long and happy life.

Okay, now I’m at home with my netbook here are some Modern Heat titles that don’t feature kids: Kelly Hunter’s ‘Exposed: Misbehaving with the Magnate’; Natalie Anderson’s ‘Pleasured by the Secret Millionaire’ (she definitely doesn’t want kids); Lucy King’s ‘Propositioned by the Billionaire’.

Kelley Armstrong’s Otherworld series.  Out of five couples, one has children and another one had a child many years ago.  The remaining three couples are happy together without children.  One of the women is in her 40s and happy with her fulltime-plus career.  Another couple discusses it briefly; he says he dreamed they had kids and she stares at him in horror before he reassures her it was just a dream and a metaphor for them being committed to each other.

Patricia Briggs’ Alpha and Omega series.  (Warning: it actually starts with a short story in On the Prowl.)  Female werewolves miscarry at the full moon.  The hero actually says he’s grateful she’s a werewolf; he’d rather have her than have her children while she dies.

Meljean Brook’s Guardian series.  Guardians can’t have children.  They can retire and become human again, but out of ten novels and novellas only one couple reproduces.

Jeaniene Frost’s Night Huntress series.  Vampires can’t reproduce so there’s no danger of the heroine getting knocked up.  And she’s terrible with small creatures anyway.

Linnea Sinclair’s books.  She writes sci-fi romance, and out of the seven couples I’ve read, none of them want children or have even mentioned the possibility.  Although the ones who have cats treat those as their babies.

Carrie Vaughn’s Kitty Norville series.  Female werewolves miscarry during the full moon.

OH YES PLEASE. Bring them on!

In historicals, the only one I can think of is Sherry Thomas’  Not Quite a Husband - the heroine is unable to have children, but it didn’t seem to be a huge issue or regret (I loved the epilogue).

I want to hear of more historicals that don’t end with babies. One thing that always, ALWAYS makes me crazy is the scene in the historical novel when the hero realizes that he “lost control” and maybe knocked up the heroine. At this point, he gets instant wood just thinking about his child growing inside her (and that’s always the phrasing, too). Creepy, antiquated, and patriarchal. Also, eww!

It seems like the only historicals that don’t end with reproduction seem to think that they need to make excuses for the heroine; she can’t have kids or some equally disempowering situation. Grrr! Why can’t the author just leave it alone? Just don’t mention babies and let the readers complete the fantasy however they choose.

End of rant.

If I remember correctly, “Who Wants to be a Sex Goddess?” by Gemma Bruce has no mention of babies and takes place at what may be considered an adult summer camp.  And it’s SO delicious.  Delicious man, delicious characters.  So delicious in fact that I lend it to all my female friends…well, at least I did until the last person kept it for herself.  I have to buy it again because I love it, so much so that this will be the third copy I’ve bought.

Ann Aguirre’s series don’t have kids and don’t seem headed that way any time soon.  The Sirantha Jax series is sci-fi romance (start with Grimspace) and Corine Solomon series is paranormal romance-ish (start with Blue Diablo).

The Downside series (paranormal/urban fantasy) by Stacia Kane is great and there are no kids.  Starts with Unholy Ghosts.  Standard warning: the main character is a drug addict.  MHO: So what. 

I also just finished the first 2 books in the “Study” series by Maria V. Snyder.  These are fantasy/romance.  Start with Poison Study.  No kids so far, and I can’t see one appearing in the last book of the trilogy, but can’t promise.

I’m surprised no one mentioned Charlaine Harris. I mean, Sookie is obviously not going to be having any babies any time soon, what with all the vampire/were banging. Lily Bard, iirc, isn’t interested. Harper Connelly doesn’t seem to care about kids (though I haven’t read the most recent one yet). Aurora Teagarden is fine up until the last book.

Also, Kim Harrison’s Rachel Morgan books don’t talk about babies at all. Granted, they’re not ‘romance’, but they’re good, and there are some romance elements.

SarahB
‘I also just finished the first 2 books in the “Study” series by Maria V. Snyder.  These are fantasy/romance.  Start with Poison Study.  No kids so far, and I can’t see one appearing in the last book of the trilogy, but can’t promise.’

No kids in the third book either :)

The Ann Maxwells that I have read, such as The Diamond Tiger and The Ruby don’t have kids.

Great topic.

re: Kelley Armstrong’s Otherworld Series.  The two main Werewolf characters actually have twins now but there are many other characaters in this series that headline books that do not and dont plan to have kiddos.

Also, slam her as you will, the Anita Blake character in Laurell K.Hamiltons books does not want kids.  There is a scare at one point with her many lovers but it all works out (no babies).    AND>....... I just re-read that whole series through over the summer (up to Skin Trade) and the smexing up of everyone seems to be easing off.  Starting to return to classic Anita which is a very happy thing for me.  **steps down from soap box**

BTW, one more for the “No Thanks” club regarding kiddos.  Love kids, but only other people’s kids in one hour increments…. and we’ll just leave it at that. 

spamword:  party33…....... sigh, yeah that was a good party.  But 35 will be even better.

Doh!  forgot to mention before I got on my Anita crusade…..

Kelley Armstrongs other series about a female assasin is blessedly kid free.  She is an ex-police officer that now works as a hit man for the mob and is a vigalante (sp?) in her spare time.  First book is Exit Wounds, 2nd is Made To Be Broken.  Both awesome books.  I’m really hoping this series continues.

I thought of another one: she’s more women’s fiction than straight-up romance, but Stacey Ballis’ protagonists are often pretty open about not wanting kids.  They’re also not skinny and enjoy good food, a la Min in Bet Me!

federal25: It’s not a federal offense if you don’t want 25 kids!

For historicals, what about Mr Impossible? I don’t think Daphne is ever broody in the slightest.  And also, from what I can tell she and Rupert haven’t any children by the time of Last Night’s Scandal, set at least 10 years later.

I’m commenting purely for the recs ‘cos this is a subject near and dear to my childfree heart.
I’m really bummed that despite my preference for these books, I can’t think of anything that hasn’t been recced already.

Also, it sorta feels like from reading the suggestions, that it’s now ok to have heroines who don’t want kids, but mainly only in paranormals.  Subtext: There’s something otherworldly about not wanting to reproduce? *sadface*

I wish I had additional suggestions, but I just wanted to chime in on the love for this topic! Both me and my new husband (of three months!) are remaining childfree. Although we love our little niece and kids in general, we’re both happy as we are. I do think it’s interesting that most of the books rec’ed so far are paranormals or scifi. Does this suggest that mostly otherworldly/somehow alien women are the only-ish ones who don’t want children?

The Maya Banks ‘Sweet” Series doesn’t really have kids in it until the 4th book. There’s a pregnancy scare in the 3rd book and an accidental pregnancy at the end of the 4th book, but otherwise they just seem happy to be together married or not, with babies or not. Although I never did read the 2nd book.

Um, well, I can’t speak for anyone else but I only recommended paranormal and sci-fi romances because those are the only books I read.  I don’t like contemporaries and I’m just now easing my way into historicals.  So don’t read too much into my post, at least.

@Kristina re: Otherworld, yes, one couple has babies, another couple has a teenager, and the remaining three couples are childfree.  And thank you for mentioning the Nadia series!  Another great series by Kelley Armstrong with no mention of babies or baby blues.

ya know, this is giving me an amazing perma-grin…

Both the manuscripts that I’m sending out there have
Happily-Kidless-Ever-After endings…. and they are NOT paranormals…

I would go for Janet Evanovich’s Plum series. The sister has a couple of kids but they are not the main focus. And of course Shelly Laurenston (yes, I know I am adding to the repetition of mentioning her books but I bet she would be glad for the free advertising.) I’m glad this topic was brought up, being only 21 and already knowing I never will have kids (God willing), it is nice to know there are books out there that don’t pound the “and baby makes three” idea into everything. I get enough of that from my mother. Just kidding, I have an older sister to give her the grandnightmares!

I can’t think of any that hasn’t been already mentioned. Though Karen Marie Moning said of the Fever series to not expect Mac to get knocked up like all her other characters did. (But then again, that could change.)

But man, I love the whole “Don’t want kids” topic. I have people who are actually pushing me to have kids in my life when I’m not even dating anyone! One person actually told me to “Just go to a bar, hook up with a guy, and get pregnant. A child doesn’t need a father.” One of my mom’s friends has said more then once, “Give up singing, get a full time job, settle for a man, and have a bunch of kids like a normal woman.” (Of course, her granddaughter is an “actress” who can only get roles as an extra on Desperate Housewives, so I think that has something to do with what she said.)

I’ve informed them that I have polycystic ovary syndrome and that makes getting pregnant difficult, if not impossible. They won’t accept that for an answer. I don’t even want to date because of the PCOS what with the constant facial hair issue, the adult acne, not to mention I’m fat. I don’t want a man to touch my chin and feel a hair I didn’t get tweezed out. Let alone have kids that I then have to raise by myself! UG!

I never wanted children myself, so I didn’t have any, but I really don’t have strong feelings about the preferences of fictional heroines, or indeed, about the reproductive choices of my friends and acquaintances in real life.  I don’t even mind if there are child characters in a novel, provided they are believable people and not too sickeningly cute and winsome.  In category romances, I always assumed that epilogues focusing on pregnancy and babies were simply a kind of symbolic shorthand to emphasise the continuing bond of the hero and heroine, rather than an implication that children were obligatory. 

I have a feeling that the choice between breeding and not breeding may be rather more of an issue in the USA than it is here:  at least, Americans often seem to have more polarised views, and to mention the matter more often, and more passionately, than I am used to.

Incidentally, Jayne Ann Krentz was mentioned.  Her earlier and category books from the 1980s often do have the ‘standard’  pregnancy/baby epilogue, and a few actually turn on pregnancy as a major plot point.  But JAK’s real obsession is with a much wider concept of family, which she does not necessarily define as mother, father and their biological offspring.  Heroes and heroines have sometimes brought up their younger siblings, there are several examples of major and minor characters who were brought up after the death of their parents by gay couples, and even more in which damaged and dysfunctional family relationships over two or more generations are repaired, usually through the heroine’s agency.  It is not too much to say that nearly all her books are about families—but they do not necessarily involve the hero and heroine having children.

Thanks for bringing up this topic.  As someone who has decided not to have children, I find it refreshing when a romance ends without the couple being in the family way.  While I don’t mind couples having kids (many in real life do :)) - as long as the woman doesn’t loose 50 IQ points once this happens - it’s just nice when other lifestyles and choices are explored.

The two that come to my mind immediately were already mentioned…but what the heck—they’re great books!

Jenny Crusie’s Anyone But You (which I think I may actually like more than Bet Me…I know, that’s crazy talk!)

Sherry Thomas’ Not Quite a Husband (heroine is unable to have kids, but she seems to have accepted it without too much distress.  The hero had to think about marrying her, which, pre-in vitro days, meant he couldn’t have legitimate biological children.  But as seen in the lovely, lovely epilogue, they both seem to be very happy with their choice.)  I admit that when I first heard this book was nominated for a RITA, I wondered if the fact their HEA did not involve children would be a problem.  After all, Julia Quinn is a RITA favorite, and while I haven’t read her non-Bridgerton books, the proof of the happiness of her Bridgerton couples rested very heavily on showing them having children.  But I guess the superior writing made the kids-or-no-kids issue moot at the RITAs!

Allyson James - Tales of the Shareem - romantica stories that are sexy and fun, the male Shareem are made to get shots to ensure they do not procreate because it’s forbidden in the female dominated land they live in, so no babies in these.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think I recall some Anne Stuart contemporary books being child free - like Into the Fire.  I know kiddies show up in some Ice books, but she is such a prolific writer there must be others w/o kids (um…Ritual Sins…Shadow Lover…etc.).

I just finished the first and third book of a Robin Kaye series, Romeo Romeo and Breakfast in Bed, that have great furbabies but no ankle biters.  The middle book has the heroine getting pregnant and the last one does mention it but not for the heroine of that book.  Kaye’s furbabies are fabulous characters all on their own.  Laurenston is still the best bet in my opinion.  I love her.

As someone who has decided never to had kids (and had to have a hysterectomy that I was happy to have) the kids in romance, and baby ever after with babies stuff has always gotten to me.  I can deal with it in historicals if only because it was harder for women to get to choose then. 

I haven’t read many contemporaries but I’m going to look for some of the ones mentioned as I can only deal with them if there are no babies.  Aren’t there more women out there who want a happily ever after without babies?

Since I do have cats (my boys) I’d love a romance where the couple gets together and decides not have kids because it would upset the resident cats. 

On a related note, the only romances I never ever read are the ones that have actual kids in them.  Something about that just makes me go ugh and wrecks the romance for me.  Minor kid characters like in All I Ever Wanted are bearable, but anything more than that is NOT for me.

Oh! Forgot to add ones to avoid - ANY of the Fabio “written” romances! Ug! Every single one ends with kids. The worse being the one where they end up together in Cuba. She’s pregnant with their 6th o 7th child, barefoot, and doing laundry by hand and is HAPPY about this! She’s become a baby machine and is hanging clothing on a clothes line and is HAPPY?! EW!

I like technology too much. Thank God for washing machines and dryers!

I always knew I wanted children and was lucky enough to get my wish.  I adore my three sons and found they have enriched my life enormously.  However, I hate epilogues with 8 babies and another on the way, as if the HEA is one size fits all and babies—the more the better—are required.  Not to mention that the sappily paternal heroes in the last 10 pages seem to be the pod-person/Invasion of the Body Snatchers version of the hero who appeared in the first 300 pages (Anne Stuart definitely has heroes who fall into this category).

Others have already mentioned the childless books I know of.  Zoe Archer’s “Lady X’s Cowboy” ends with a baby, but it’s refreshing in that the heroine’s infertility is not cured by the hero’s magic sperm—they adopt a child and are perfectly happy with the baby and each other.

It doesn’t quite fit your parameters, but I found it really lovely: Nicola Cornick’s Regency Whisper of Scandal, in which [SPOILER ALERT] a woman who’s barren struggles with her own desire for kids, the news that her deceased husband had a bastard daughter, and her new husband’s need for an heir. I’m childfree, and I really appreciated the way Cornick handled all the nuances of a very tricky storyline. The book is due out in October.

I’d add another vote for JD Robb’s In Death series.  Eve and Roarke + childen = end of the series.

We’re happily childfree, and would not have it any other way, despite the fact we love other people’s kids.

This thread is real food for thought. Considering the fact that 13 million Americans now identify as childfree, I’m surprised there aren’t more choices for romance readers as well.

In the meantime, I love, love, love Jennifer Crusie’s heroines, especially Min.

Shit to avoid:

Do NOT read Lisa Kleypas’ Blue Eyed Stranger. As a childfree vegan I felt personally attacked by that book—-and I usually like baby-logues etc (men who are good with kids are hot)!

@ Cassie.  er, I think the book you’re referring to is Smooth Talking Stranger - that one has a baby in it IIRC.  Blue Eyed Devil doesn’t as far as I can recall.

I’m slightly surprised this hasn’t come up, but a few of MaryJanice Davidson’s cross overs btwn the Wyndham werewolves and the vampires from the Betsey universe have discussed their intentions to not have children. The ones I can think of off the top of my are all in anthologies (Over the Moon and Dead Over Heels).

@Kaetrin: Whoops! Knew I should have googled that. The rage got to my brain : P

@ Cassie.  Don’t worry about it - I do it all the time :D

@Lynnd….I loved that book (“Not Quite a Husband”)! I was going to mention it too!
My husband and I chose to be child free. He was firm on the subject and I could go either way. I love my nieces and nephews and their off spring, but frankly, I was a much better teacher than I ever would have been a Mother!

Well, most of the ones I was thinking of have been covered, esp since Bet Me is the main answer I give when people ask for a childless romance book.

Cassie: I know what you mean (yep, Smooth Talking Stranger). I really disliked that heroine; she didn’t f-ing think, she just repeated her boyfriend, and then she kept calling herself a feminist. Ugh. I really liked Blue Eyed Devil but STS was horrible.

@orangehands: I liked Blue Eyed Devil until I re-read it and realised the hero tells the heroine (a rape and abuse survivor) that he’s paid off the victim of his rapist brother, so that she won’t bring charges, and the heroine is okay with this.

My mind was boggled.

Sorry, I usually do really like Lisa Kleypas, it’s just these contemporaries of hers that really rubbed me the wrong way.

I second Graceling.  Lovely, nuanced romantic thread with unusual hero/heroine, and no desire for children.  High fantasy, rather than pure romance, but a great read.

Though I love kids and have a child of my own that I adore, I love the idea of child-free romances. It’d be nice to get away from my own realities with childbearing and now I have a fabulous list of titles to explore. Thank you for this thread!

Subtext: There’s something otherworldly about not wanting to reproduce?

You know what I think it is?

(a) Almost all paranormal heroines are Action Girls and they need to kick ass all the time. Pregnancy would drastically interfere with this. (I was thoroughly disturbed by Elena’s pregnancy in Broken, actually. She’s huge with twins and still getting up to stuff? HOW? I know she’s a werewolf and it’s fiction, but HOW?)

(b) Most paranormal books feature people of two different species getting their sex on, so odds are you probably can’t impregnate a vampire/were/witch/whatever if you are a something else. (Example: Rachel Morgan doesn’t need to worry about birth control as long as she doesn’t boff another witch.) I remember being really annoyed at reading Anne McCaffrey’s Freedom series because it was decided for the heroine that she should have kids (her alien boyfriend can’t impregnate her and there’s no turkey basters about), so she got raging blackout drunk and OOPS slept with humans. Twice. UGH. And thank the gods that most authors aren’t Stephenie Meyer on this subject.

SBSarah, did you know that the search function on the site isn’t working?  Or at least, for me it isn’t - I keep being told that I don’t have permission to use it.  Anyway, I used google and came up with the link I was looking for - the last time we had this HABO discussion.  There’s some overlap but there are some different suggestions there too.  And exactly the same discussion about why this issue matters (or doesn’t).

Thanks, Ros, for finding that link to the earlier discussion here. One of the commenters there posted this link to a list at AAR: http://www.likesbooks.com/childless.html

Quite a few good titles there.

Spamword “consider48”: I did, thanks, and then sailed on past it. No more kids for me!

Harlequin Blazes for the most part don’t feature any babies, pregnancies or children at all, with the exception of Rhonda Nelson’s Feeling the Heat, The Renegade, and Kathleen O’Reilly’s Long Summer Nights. Those are the only ones I’ve come across with a pregnancy or a child so far.

I can’t tell you the number of fresh, funny, thoroughly modern romances I’ve read which have been spoiled by a clichéd ‘Oh darling I’m so happy you’re having my babies’ epilogue. Bitch, please.

As for paranormal characters, I think it’s often the fact that they are paranormal that prevents the baby question coming up: ie, inter-species romance, or beings who are technically undead (remind me why we find this so sexy?). Sometimes, of course, adding children into the mix can make it all the more dangerous and exciting: something to temper the recklessness of an immortal being.

I find it kind of sad and depressing when I read a modern book that seems to assume you’re not complete and happy without a child, as if it’s a strange cult we’re all being pressured to join through the subliminal medium of the romance novel. I’m looking for a happy ever after, not a baby ever after.

@ Jennifer: Re Elena from Broken, I haven’t read this so am assuming you’re referring to sexy-time and not kung -fu, I had twins and was “active” up to the days prior to labour.  Although alot of people seem quite put off about intimacy during pregnancy, it is possible.  If however this is about kung-fu, my apologies.
I am enjoying this thread enormously as although a ‘breeder’, the last thing I want to do after a trying day with my lovlies is to read about some winsome little darling or adolescent darling (a species that I’m sure doesn’t exist), so am now looking forward to checking out a heap of new books. AWESOME.

@Minna, I’m not Jennifer but I definitely thought that Jennifer was talking about kung-fu rather than sex.  That’s part of being an Action Girl Heroine.

Your Scandalous Ways by Loretta Chase - this is in all ways a delightful and unconventional romance, and there’s no mention of children in the HEA (I just re-read the ending to be sure). I don’t remember the heroine thinking about kids at all during the book, but I could be wrong about that.

Jennifer - I hated that part of the FREEDOM series too. Once I could maybe cope with, but twice?? It would have been much more interesting if she’d actually dealt with the moral dilemma of choosing to sleep with someone else to get (more) kids. Not to mention I really couldn’t believe it the second time. He’s so drunk he _passes out_ as she helps him to the bed, and doesn’t wake up for at least another 24 hours after, and yet somehow managed to undress her and get it up in between? Not buying it.

I don’t know if this one has been mentioned or not but you can keep it going with Crusie’s Anyone But You. I love the ER doc Alex who is younger than divorced, editor Nina (neither want kids). I both read and listened to this book on audio and loved it both times. I have to say that the narration of the audio was great and I thought it really added to the story.

This is the best thread ever, and not just for the recommendations.  I don’t want children; I know many women do, and that’s fine, and I don’t mind reading about heroines who want children (although I try to avoid books that highlight pregnancy and/or children because I’m not interested).  But I hate the “all women want this” subtext one sometimes encounters, and I wish there were more diversity in HEAs.  It’s a relief to discover so many others who feel the same way.

One thing that always, ALWAYS makes me crazy is the scene in the historical novel when the hero realizes that he “lost control” and maybe knocked up the heroine. At this point, he gets instant wood just thinking about his child growing inside her (and that’s always the phrasing, too). Creepy, antiquated, and patriarchal. Also, eww!

Yes yes yes!  This!  It always feels to me like wish fulfillment rather than an accurate description of how men think.  I want to read romances with real men, not men who behave the way women want them to.  I mentioned this trope to my boyfriend once and he looked at me like I’d grown another two heads. 

It would probably be hard to do properly, but I really wish someone would write a historical about a titled nobleman who needs to marry to get an heir but falls in love with a woman who doesn’t want children and doesn’t change her mind about it.

I found all of these comments extremely interesting because my debut novel last Nov. Spinning Forward had an important character that chose not to keep a child she had many years ago and even over fifty years later, she never regretted this decision for one moment.  Actually, my character was based on my beloved aunt….childless by choice, during a time it wasn’t popular to do so.  However, she had a happily married life that included traveling the world and other things that brought her joy.  Selfish?  That’s the theme I explore in my novel.  Personally, and I have three grown children, I always understood and supported my aunt’s decision.

What a great topic! I’ve always been disappointed that only the paranormal or crime romance books I’ve read didn’t have a baby epilogue (and even those usually have a line about how they wish they could have kids). What’s so wrong with a childless-by-choice contemporary romance? Or one where they wait a few years? I mean, usually the heroine only hooked up with the hero maybe a month before the proposal, don’t they want some time to at least get to know each other first?

As a subcategory, has anyone heard of romances where the hero is a divorced dad but the book ends WITHOUT full-custody and a baby on the way? (Instant full-time mommy!) I’d love to read a story like that.

Yup, I meant kung fu, or whatever the hell the werewolf equivalent of asskicking is. I kept thinking, dang, wouldn’t her balance be off, or wouldn’t she be slower, or something? I seem to recall there being fights going on and she was fairly well far along enough for it to be a problem for her as a human (beats me about werewolf). It scared me that she wasn’t as up to protecting herself as usual, or at least shouldn’t be. Same thing that gives me the wiggins about say, a Slayer getting pregnant. I always imagined that (Buffy reference!) Nikki Wood’s life would be in massive danger during that time because every vampire would really be after her and she wouldn’t have it as easy to beat on them the way she used to.

Back to bitching about the Freedom series: it annoyed me that she got BLACKOUT DRUNK when she wasn’t even an alcoholic/frequent drinker. Again, twice. It’s not like she didn’t have friends offering to “make the donation.” Hell, her boyfriend didn’t even CARE how she did it and didn’t seem to consider it “cheating.” And yet some random dude is brought in specifically to be babydaddy #1, too? Even creepier. At least #2 was a friend of hers, though yeah, implausible erection there. It was so stupid on every level. I also, as a childfree chick, wanted her to tell the idiot who told her she HAD to have kids, “Screw you, you can’t make me, and when you know the Eloi could show up at any moment and do anything to us that they want to, you guys really think it’s a good idea to start producing kids right now?!”

Awesome topic. Plus, now I have several new authors to suss out!  I too have no children and no interest in changing that state. It really is a cultural taboo; people often look pityingly at me because of it, the whole “well, your time will come, dear” attitude. Really, it’s OK. When I told my best friend that the only time it bothers me is when I think of being 80+ (my family is notoriously long lived) and old and alone in a nursing home b/c I have no kids to visit, she said, that’s OK, mine will come keep you company. Now that’s covered, I have no worries.

You know, it actually bugs the crap out of me when a paranormal romance says a vampire can’t have kids because in the actual mythology male vampires CAN get human females pregnant. Which results in a dhampire, a natural born vampire hunter.

I know authors pick and choose what they like out of myths and make up new mythology, but I hate it when they completely ignore this. Now if they explained it as two vampires cannot produce a baby, that I could take. But vampire-human crossbreeds existed in the actual vampire mythos. (Often it was the widow’s husband who came back from the grave to impregnate her.)

I went through a major vampire obsession in high school when a friend of mine was hit by a car and killed. So I tend to know WAY too much vampire trivia. Like this, for instance, and the fact that you can identify a dhampire upon birth because their skin is see-through like a jellyfish. Though as they get older their skin turns normal.

Doesn’t mean I don’t want more child-free romance novels. More contemporary then historical. I’d love, love, LOVE to see a heroine with PCOS. Especially since I’ve only known I’ve had it for about a year and somedays I feel so freaking alone in this. I’ve searched out groups on Facebook but no one answers my questions there. Best I’ve done is mentioned I had it while in the ER and the ER nurse stopped me to talk about the fact she had it too.

Cead said

It always feels to me like wish fulfillment rather than an accurate description of how men think.  I want to read romances with real men, not men who behave the way women want them to.  I mentioned this trope to my boyfriend once and he looked at me like I’d grown another two heads.

Exactly! I had a pregnancy scare a while back, and my husband’s reaction was pure horror, not secret delight. We’re happily child-free. I don’t want to say we’ll never reproduce, but at this time, having been married to him for two years, I can’t imagine wanting to change our dynamic. We’re happy the way we are. I guess our theme song would be “Just the Two of Us!”

Spamword: run92. 92 children? RUN!

Cassie (just in case *TW*): Do you know I completely blocked that scene out of my head. I hate when in books that have a heroine rape survivor the H/H have to have rough sex to help the hero through whatever emotional trauma he is in at the time. (To clarify, it’s not that a rape survivor has rough sex, but that the scene always reads as if the hero wants rough sex, no if ands or buts, and because the heroine oh so loves him she does it, even though half the time the initiation into the rough sex has flavors of her original rape and would, in reality, more likely be a trigger for a horrible flashback than sexy time. And to clarify further, I know rape survivors who work out issues through sex with similarities to their rape, but it’s on their time and initiation, not because the hero wants it that way and they better get on board. I’m not sure how clear I’m being about this…)

Anyway, all of that is to say, I totally blocked that whole scene and lead up from my memory of the book, including the part where he says that. So now I’m all ewww.

Terri: Are you talking about Spinning Forward?

JamiSings: Over at The]http://www.thefword.org.uk/index]The F Word[/url], at least one of the contributors (Philippa Willitts) has PCOS; I’m not sure how often she blogs about it, but she may have other links to get you to blogs/etc.

Ack, totally link failure, sorry. http://www.thefword.org.uk/index”>The F Word

JamiSings: Anyway, I hope that can help you find a group.

Okay, my linking powers suck today.

http://www.thefword.org.uk/index

I had to delurk to this topic- amazing one, thank you for bringing it up.  As a constantly pestered but child-free-by-choice woman, this is a big personal gripe of mine (though not enough of one to give up reading romances!).  I don’t have any book suggestions to add at this point, but I’ve made long notes & a few library holds on some that have appeared today.

@TerriDuLong, great point.  Selfish & self-centred aren’t necessarily synonyms.  I’ve always thought that it’s not selfish not to have kids (sorry, Gran), whatever the reason, but it is selfish to have kids & maintain a kidless lifestyle since the children might get somewhat shortchanged for attention (based on a few cases I’ve observed - granted, caveat small sample size).

filled39: I think my house is just fine not being filled with 39 kids

@ Kalen, I’m so happy to see Victoria Dahl mentioned first. I’ve been devouring her contemporaries like sweet yummy candy. They are freaking hilarious and so far none have even really mentioned kids beyond the “put a bag on it!”

I also noticed Mary Janice Davidson has been mentioned, she’s got several series that feature characters who are anti-baby bumps or the subject is not hinted at.

Several Katie MacAllister novels (like Playing with Fire) fit and so do some of Nina Bang’s novels.

CAYENNE:  That was exactly the major point in my story, Spinning Forward.  My aunt had come from a family of 11, so frankly, I think she’d had her fill with children and wanted something different in her adult life.  My character of Sybile had other plans for her life as well and that did not include a child and the main point that I hoped to get across to my readers was “not every woman is cut out to be a mother.”  My aunt was one of these women….was she a bad person for this?  Absolutely NOT!  She put her love in other areas, lived her life on HER terms (as my Sybile did) and passed away at age 82 a few years ago,  happy with the life she chose.  I guess this topic is huge with me….because my second book in the series also has to do with this…..Sybile’s granddaughter, Monica, now questions IF she’s cut out to be a mom.

@Orangehands - Thanks.

I think what happened is I must’ve offended the ladies on the PCOS boards because I said I didn’t care about the fertility issues as I didn’t want children. (99% of the posts are about their struggles to have kids.) I’m just scared cause of the increased risk of diabetes, heart disease, and uterine cancer, not to mention the embarrassment of the facial hair and the acne. (Every single day I’m there with tweezers, a mirror, and a flashlight doing a chin-hair sweep. More then once a day at that.) Because they don’t even acknowledge my existence now. I just wanted to find alternative treatments besides birth control as BC makes my blood pressure super high, gives me violent headaches, and a major personality change.

Wow, I’ve never heard of PCOS, but that makes me wonder about myself. I have problems with chin hair and adult acne. I’ve even had an ovary removed because of issues. That’s definitely something I’m going to look into.

And I don’t want kids, I’ve known that for more than 10 years. I love kids…just as long as I can hand them back to their parents. I even spend a fair amount of my time volunteering with kids aged 11 to 20.

I love this topic, I don’t mind the occasional book with a kid or the HEA having kids, but sometimes it feels like I’m somehow wrong for not wanting that myself. It’s like here is what happily ever after is, it’s been prepackaged for general consumption, and anything that deviates from it is, well, deviant.

  It always feels to me like wish fulfillment rather than an accurate description of how men think.  I want to read romances with real men, not men who behave the way women want them to.  I mentioned this trope to my boyfriend once and he looked at me like I’d grown another two heads.

Exactly! I had a pregnancy scare a while back, and my husband’s reaction was pure horror, not secret delight. We’re happily child-free. I don’t want to say we’ll never reproduce, but at this time, having been married to him for two years, I can’t imagine wanting to change our dynamic. We’re happy the way we are. I guess our theme song would be “Just the Two of Us!”

Depends on the man. My best friend and her hubby are “child-free”, but when she had a scare a couple years back, he got all mushy and googly-eyed about it. She was so ticked (cause it’s not like they didn’t discuss the topic in-depth before they got married).

Wouldn’t it be nice if a few authors and publishers stumbled upon this conversation and realized that readers do not consider babies an essential component of the HEA? I wish there were more couples who were happy not to have children rather then a majority of the childless couples being of different species. I like when it’s a choice not to have children. I can really identify with that….

I agree with everyone who mentioned Victoria Dahl - at least her contemporaries aren’t searching for babies.

Love the furbabies idea!  That is how we’ve chosen to live our lives with 2 furry kitties being our babies.  And one is preventing me from checking to see if any of Rachel Gibson’s books end without babies.  I seem to think they do or at least some of them do but some of the characters make cameos and that is often when you learn of the baby.

All but 2? of Crusie’s are without kids.  It recently came up on her blog and I had thanked her for the childlessness of her heroines.  There are 2 kids in the newest book, Maybe This Time, but they are 8 and 12 and not the heroine’s biological kids.

So, like everyone else who has chosen not to have kids - thanks for the topic!  It really is nice learning of others like me since it seems to make me something of an outcast.  There are those who think something is wrong with me because I don’t want or even like children.  I’ve met maybe 6-10 kids that I wouldn’t mind spending more than a minute with.

@Maria - Yeah, defiantly look into it. It’s a lot more then just facial hair and acne, of course. There’s a lot of health issues involved. If you ask me, every single woman should be tested for it young so they can prevent the possible diabetes and heart disease a lot earlier.

JamiSings: Yeah, the first link I thought of is to a mommy blog who talks about her PCOS in relation to her fertility and not much else. Anyway, hope she can direct you to something that can help, and that you can find a better treatment.

@JamiSings: A little bit of google goes a long way. I don’t fit all the criteria, especially the one that seems the most important. My period is as regular as the sunrise, and has been for several years, even before I had the trouble with my ovary. Ok, sorry for the TMI. But it did bring up other questions for me to ask my Dr. about. Thanks Jami, and rock on with your childless self.

I always thought that Laura Kinsale’s The Shadow and the Star was interesting. It’s never stated explicitly, but neither the hero nor the heroine seem interested in having children. The heroine has a baby foisted upon her, but she’s more than happy to let the hero’s foster family take care of it.

To JamiSings: There’s a lot of conflicting information about what vampires can and can’t do, given all the different cultures that have vampire myths, so I’m fine with whatever the author chooses to do as long as it’s consistent in the work. I could do without the whole “vampire smugly explains that he’s not allergic to garlic” scene, though.

To cassie: Why were you offended by Smooth Talking Stranger as a vegan?

@Maria - Hey, my period is pretty regular too. BUT I did go for several years where I’d go as much as three months without a period. My family doctor said, “Oh, it’s because you’re so fat. Overweight women don’t menstruate regularly.” So I took that Estroven - that soy thing that’s for women who are going through menopause, half a regular dose - and my period became regular.

It pisses me off, actually. I had ALL the signs, including the bright purple stretch marks, and my doctor still didn’t recognize what I had. It took my dermatologist’s PA to realize something was seriously wrong with me. She put two and two together when she noticed how I had both stubborn acne and facial hair that did not response to laser treatments. Neither my GP nor my dermatologist got it. They just blamed everything solely on my weight and basically said I was just too lazy.

You don’t have to have all the signs to have PCOS, BTW. While it’s true most PCOS sufferers are overweight, for instance, some are actually of normal body weight or even too thin!

@Orange - I guess that’s what most women with PCOS are worried about. I mean, let’s take the currently most famous PCOS sufferer - Kate Goselin. (Yep, she has it too.) She obviously wanted kids more then anything.

@Maddie - Actually, with maybe the exception of Asian vampires, every single myth I read about them included that vampire males could have children with human women. Now there’s at least one Asian myth about a female vampire who falls in love with her would be victim, marries him, and has children. But none I saw about male vampire/human females having babies. So it’s pretty consistent that vampires can have children with humans. It’s usually how to kill/repel/become one that differs.

@Maddie Grove: Maybe I’m being over-sensitive, but I felt the vegan boyfriend was shown to be cold and callous and more concerned with his ‘ideals’ than being a good person to the people around him. I felt that Kleypas was saying that his being vegan was symptomatic of that.

I was also just really squicked out by the ‘seduction with meat’ scene between the hero and the heroine—I had to skip that part entirely. I’m not usually grossed out be descriptions of meat as a meal, but that just . . . made my skin crawl.

Kleypas doesn’t have a good track record with portraying vegans and vegetarians (as far as I’m concerned). In Prince of Dreams her heroine is a vegetarian who happily eats pate on her wedding night. I was all . . . . “Okayyyy, she does know where that comes from, right? Is she not a vegetarian now?” But no, a few scenes later her husband’s admonishing her not to bring up her crazy vego ways when he has guests.

Maddie Grove: I’ll add to Cassie’s list that she did not want to be a vegan, but became one because her boyfriend wanted her to be one. She broke the rules all the time, and while yes, some vegans struggle with being vegan, they don’t pretend to be vegan when they continuously are not vegan. 

And yeah, that “ply her with meat” scene was very obnoxious.

(The more I think about this book the more I dislike it.)

@orangehands I also got really ticked off with the hero’s whole “I’m a conservationist because I’m a hunter” stance, which is strange because I don’t bat an eyelid at Regency heroes going off grouse shooting.

Maybe I have different expectations of behaviour for contemporary and historical characters?

I’m mainly a lurker on this site, but I wanted to add my thanks to this list. I have no objection to the couple having a baby, but I have to gree to disliking the whole “must have a baby to be complete” thought process.

My hubby and I can’t have kids due to medication issues. My beef is the “well, you can always adopt” response I get all the time when I mention that. Really? Wanna loan me the $30,000 for the adoption agency and pay for the babysitter/daycare I’ll have to send my kid to because I sure can’t afford either. We chose to have our family be made of furbabies (3 cats, 2 dogs) and love them to death.

I love reading about childless couples, knowing that my family is perfect as it is.

I believe in Jane Father’s “The Least Likely Bride” the couple discusses how they don’t want children and they don’t even want to get married, which is very unusual for an historical romance.  And in Kristine Cashore’s book “Fire” the main character takes an herb to sterilize herself.  Both books I found refreshing.

JamiSings: That’s really interesting. Admittedly, I’d never heard anything about vampiric reproductive abilities before, save the rather horrifying things I’ve heard about Twilight. I’ve enjoyed stories with vampires in the past, but they’ve mostly been YA horror short stories (plus the classic Dracula) and they didn’t really address that aspect, so that’s probably why.

cassie: That makes sense. Kleypas does set up the boyfriend to be this sort of ineffectual, somewhat hypocritical stereotype of a liberal. Personally, I found the hero to be irritating. For one thing, he was very smug about money and politics. For another, I found it disturbing when he objected to the baby having a stuffed bunny because it wasn’t “masculine” enough. Yeah, it’s funny now, but what happens in ten years if it turns out that the kid’s more interested in cooking than football? Anyway, I think that it’s perfectly reasonable to expect different things from historical and contemporary heroes. People know things about the environment now that they didn’t know then.

orangehands: I just assumed that she wasn’t really supposed to be a vegan at all; she was just going along with it to please her boyfriend. Of course, it’s troubling that she only eats what she wants when a new man encourages her to do so. She doesn’t really change at all, which made me like the book less.

@Cassie - Actually most hunters and other outdoorsy types are all about conservation and the environment. My parents love to fish for instance and are religious about recycling and keeping “God’s planet clean for His creations.” (Heck, my dad is even a PhD chemist who specializes in making fuel more environmentally sound.) Because they know if they don’t take care of this planet, then they’ll have nothing left to hunt or fish or wild places to enjoy. Plus many of them are religious and believe God ordered us to take care of the earth and that to not recycle is really a sin.

Some hunters even specialize in just looking for sick and severely injured animals that aren’t going to make it anyway, or thinning out populations where there isn’t enough food to go around.

@Maddie - Like I said, I went through a vampire obsession when I was young after a friend died. So I read a LOT. There’s whole sections of vampire myths that deal strictly with vampires that feed solely on the energy people give off during sex.

Thinking back, it always struck me as weird - the male vampires could feed off of women’s sexual energy. But female vampires fed off the energy of men they were giving nightmares to rather then having sex with them.

(And yes, it was vampires, not succubuses and incubuses. The demons were a whole other category.)

Like I said, I realize that authors have artistic license and all that, but I do wish they would at least come up with a reasonable explanation for why that particular myth is wrong. Just because you don’t want your vampires to be able to have children isn’t good enough. Give a history to the dhampire myth that reasonably explains why humans had the whole vampire/human crossbreeding thing wrong and where it came from. Sort of like whomever said about a vampire “Smugly explaining why they’re not repelled by garlic.” Give a good reason for it. Don’t just dismiss a whole section of mythology out of hand.

JamiSings: Well, the funniest reason I heard is because male vampires can’t get it up since they’re dead and so the blood can’t flow down south.

Cassie: I definitely have different expectations for what a hero is allowed to do in contemporary vs historical, which is why it’s really hard for me to pick up a historical.

The conservationist/hunter stance doesn’t bother me (I’m not opposed to certain parts of it), but the bunny = not masculine sure did. (Especially funny since masculinity has a whole tie-in with virility and bunnies reproduce like no other.)

Maddie: Yeah, I read it that way too, and the vegan thing was just an example of the bigger problem; she kept claiming labels she was not (because her boyfriend told her to). And these labels start out as the “morally superior choice” (which is annoying on a different level) and then become - or are shown as -  something nobody could or would want to every achieve. Vegan, feminist, open relationship, etc…she kept calling them the best choice (because her boyfriend told her so) and claiming them for herself, but she didn’t actually commit to any of them.