We’re going back in time to look at the ads and features of the September 2002 issue of Romantic Times!
This issue left us with many questions, such as:
What the hell is Tart Noir?
Are reviewers elsewhere too mean? (Not us – we weren’t online yet!)
How much lore is there about pesto?
Should you jump into a pile of leaves?
Should you soak crawfish tails in milk?
Why is an author defending polygamy?
What snack is best for reading and why is it not an apple?
We had a lot of fun, even if the feature article was a bit of a let down, so please come join us for assorted silliness, and a Shadow Prince with no neck!
Don’t miss the visual aids – so many screengrabs, so many weird necks!
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Support for this episode comes from Bound to the Shadow Prince by Ruby Dixon
If you have ever dreamed of being locked in a tower for a while, well, I have The book for you to read while you’re there. Bound to the Shadow Prince by Ruby Dixon is on sale on July 2.
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As time inside the unchanging tower rolls on, Candra uncovers the man behind the stony facade. And when their tenure hits an unexpected snag, Candra and Nemeth are forced to make a difficult choice. They’ll need to face an outside world they no longer recognize, one that threatens their lives and their surprising love.
Originally published on Yonder and later released as an audiobook, this is the first print edition of Bound to the Shadow Prince, a story that had over 2.7 million reads on Yonder, with a 9.82 rating. It’s over 500 pages, so grab your snacks, your beverages, your cozy blankets, and find yourself a tower to hide in while you read.
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Transcript
❤ Click to view the transcript ❤
[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hi there! Welcome to the podcast. I’m Sarah Wendell; this is episode 621 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books; Amanda is with me; and we are taking a look at the ads and features of Romantic Times magazine, issue September 2002. This issue gave us many questions, like what the hell is tart noir? Are reviewers elsewhere too mean? (And I just want to state for the record it wasn’t us; we weren’t online yet.) How much lore is there about pesto? Is there a time when you should soak frozen crawfish tails in milk? All of these questions will be answered. Most of the time the answer is no – [laughs] – especially with the milk part, but we are going to answer all these questions and more.
As always, there will be visual aids. I will link to them in the show notes. You get to see all the features from inside the magazine, clips, and the covers that we’re talking about, because when we’re talking about 2002, we’re talking about some covers, y’all. There’s really amazing, amazing pieces of art involved here.
Thank you to our Patreon community, and a special hello to Lauren M., who is one of the newest members of the Patreon. Thank you for joining us. Not only do you get bonus episodes and the whole PDF of the whole magazine each and every time, but you also support the show and keep us going and make sure every episode has a transcript hand-compiled by garlicknitter. Hey, garlicknitter! [Hello! – gk] Thank you so much for being part of the podcast Patreon. If you would like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.
Support for this episode comes from Bound to the Shadow Prince by Ruby Dixon. If you have ever dreamed about being locked in a tower for a while, I have the book for you to read while you are there. Bound to the Shadow Prince by Ruby Dixon is on sale July 2nd, and I am sure that many of you just heard the word Ruby and then the word Dixon and you immediately pressed Pause to preorder – welcome back to the show. Here is more information in the event that you didn’t hit Pause, but I’m pretty sure you’re going to. In order to protect her kingdom from the wrath of a vengeful goddess, Princess Candra must remain locked inside a tower for seven years. Seven long years without a friend or a lover by her side, and shut inside the tower with her? A Fellian, the enemy of her people, a fearsome warrior race complete with wings and claws and fangs. Nemeth is terrifying, cruel, and disturbingly magnetic. Candra should kill him for his supplies, but she’s desperate for his company, and his touch. As time inside the unchanging tower rolls on, Candra uncovers the man behind the stony facade. And when their tenure hits an unexpected snag, Candra and Nemeth are forced to make a difficult choice. They’ll need to face an outside world they no longer recognize, one that threatens their lives and their surprising love. Originally published on Yonder and then later released as an audiobook, this is the first print edition of Bound to the Shadow Prince. This story had over 2.7 million reads on Yonder, with a 9.82 rating. It’s over five hundred pages, y’all, so grab your snacks, grab your beverages, grab your cozy blankets. Find yourself a tower to hide in while you read. Bound to the Shadow Prince is on sale July 2nd. You can preorder your copy now wherever books are sold.
All right, are you ready to go back in time again to September 2002? Let’s do this. On with the podcast.
[music]
Sarah: All right, ads and features of the September 2002 issue, as voted on by our Patreon community. The headline is Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and Female, and the Female Fascination. And you thought those – [laughs] – you thought that the cou-, couple on the side –
Amanda: I thought those were, like, I saw it very briefly and I was – [laughs] – they gave me like Hobbits from The Lord of the Rings vibes.
Sarah: Yeah, nope, not Hobbits.
Amanda: So I thought those, I thought that was Frodo and Samwise – [laughs] –
Sarah: No, I think that’s a –
Amanda: – for a second.
Sarah: Well, it turns out, if you look really closely, because it’s got these two people just sort of floating off to the left and then the headline, and then over on the right there’s a tiny little picture of Requiem for the Sun by Elizabeth Haydon, and apparently those are the characters from Requiem for the Sun? Like, why not make –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – the whole cover that cover, because those characters are standing on a cliff; there’s some kind of glowy stick penis thing in the distance? Like, that would have been a cool cover. But no, we have Christine Feehan’s Dark Guardian, which is a guy with a mullet, and then Dara Joy’s Rejar? I guess that’s Rejar. Someone who’s a Dara Joy fan –
Amanda: Yeah, that looks like Rejar.
Sarah: Someone who’s a Dara Joy fan is now yelling at their car stereo, or they’re, like, yelling at the park, but –
Amanda: I’m looking it up. No, it’s, it’s Rejar.
Sarah: It’s Rejar? Anyway –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – so that’s an armpit.
Amanda: Okay, sorry. I looked up Rejar –
Sarah: Okay, yep, mm-hmm.
Amanda: – and this is the Google Books description.
Sarah: Okay.
Amanda: So this is just, like, the little preview inside:
>> There is only one thing a woman can think of when looking at a man like him. Sex.
Sarah: ‘Kay.
Amanda: >> But Lilac never guesses that bringing a stray cat into her home will soon have her stroking the most wanted man in 1811 London.
Sarah: What?!
Amanda: [Laughs] Apparently Rejar can change himself into a cat. He’s a familiar, and he can – [laughs] – turn into a cat, but somehow the process also lands him in Regency England.
Sarah: Okay, I think I need to read this. Is there an audiobook? I’m still having –
Amanda: There might be.
Sarah: – a lot of trouble, I’m still having a lot of trouble reading – oh my God, the new cover is very greasy. It’s very –
Amanda: It’s book two in the Matrix of Destiny series.
Sarah: Amanda, it’s 1,144 pages!
Amanda: But how could that – there’s no way!
Sarah: How long is the –
Amanda: That’s got to be a typo.
Sarah: – the allot- – no! The audiobook is eleven hours and nineteen minutes! [Laughs]
Amanda: Goodreads says it’s only 390 pages. There’s no way.
Sarah: Well, then what am I looking at? What the hell? Oh my God, what the shit?
Amanda: Only look at the new edition. Maybe she added a lot of content.
Sarah: I knew there was a cat-shifter Dara Joy book. I did not recall which one it was, and – eleven hours and nineteen minutes?
Amanda: It’s, does the new cover have a fluffy black cat on it?
Sarah: No, the new cover on Amazon – it’s in Kindle Unlimited – it has a, okay, so it has a guy with two-colored eyes – or it actually looks like two –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – two different guys’ faces were grafted together? And then a bi-colored, a, a cat, a black fluffy cat with heterochromia?
Amanda: Yeah!
Sarah: But the –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – audiobook has a very wet-looking man leaning up against a stone wall.
Amanda: Oh yeah, he’s very – yep! Okay!
Sarah: He’s very, very –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – slick. Moist.
Amanda: Yeah. Apparently he can turn into a cat –
Sarah: Okay!
Amanda: – and time travel.
Sarah: Sure! Sounds great
Amanda: [Laughs] Sure!
Sarah: I – wow. Is this available from the – no, but it’s, it’s on Hoopla. [Gasps]
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: Oh shit, it’s on Hoopla! It’s part two of the Matrix of Destiny series. Adding that to my Favorites – click! And wow. Okay. I’ve added it to my Favorites. It is eleven hours and twenty-three minutes. Even if I listen to it on 1.5 speed, that is quite an investment of time. I will be doing a lot of walking and a lot of sewing and a lot of stitching. Oh my God.
Amanda: …Rejar.
Sarah: Okay, so now that we’ve discovered or re-, in my case rediscovered the, the joy of Rejar, the original cover on the cover of the magazine is just very armpit-ular. It’s like, here’s –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – my armpit; let me show you it!
Amanda: And it’s also a shaved or a waxed armpit.
Sarah: Yes, this man has lots of hair on his head and none hair on his body. But this is just a very –
Amanda: None hair.
Sarah: – clip art cover. Like, they could have used the cover art for Requiem for the Sun, although that would be like, the cover would be that book then. I guess I can understand why not, but this is just a very Hey, here’s some books. But also, is Dark Guardian sci-fi and fantasy? Or is that paranormal?
Amanda: I, well, let’s be clear that RT does not do a good job distinguishing –
Sarah: No. But not –
Amanda: – between genres.
Sarah: – in this issue especially.
Amanda: They’re all kind of –
Sarah: Vampires over here –
Amanda: – lumped together.
Sarah: – suspense everywhere, thrillers everywhere, yep.
Amanda: And then we have a Janet Evanovich book! [Laughs]
Sarah: We do have a Janet Evanovich cover and a Jayne Ann Krentz cover and something called Crime School.
Amanda: But Jayne Ann Krentz kind of fits because, like, it’s futuristic? But this, these other ones are not –
Sarah: No.
Amanda: – sci-fi/fantasy? Yeah, I just, to spoil it for everybody, Sarah and I were very bored –
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: – by this issue.
Sarah: We’re sorry.
Amanda: We weren’t fascinated by the sci-fi and fantasy. [Laughs]
Sarah: So you, you mentioned in our document that this is giving you a very specific vibe that I think is very apt.
Amanda: Yeah, it’s – [laughs] – I said it’s giving decoupage vision board vibes?
Sarah: This is such a –
Amanda: Like –
Sarah: – Mod Podge cover. You are a thousand percent right.
Amanda: Yeah! You just, like, scroll through your, your People magazines or your Good Housekeeping, and you snip stuff out, and then you just paste it on a little board!
Sarah: Authors used to make vision boards all the time. Jennifer Crusie used to give a whole, like, workshop about making vision boards and decoupage. Like, when she’s writing, writing a book, just putting things on it and then looking at it later and being like, Oh yes, of course! That’s what that means. The problem is –
Amanda: And that’s what Pinterest is now!
Sarah: And that’s what Pinterest is now, because where are you going to get pictures? What magazines? From whence –
Amanda: Well, we –
Sarah: – will you cut anything?
Amanda: Well, after, I can’t remember what issue it was, but we discovered that Elizabeth Hoyt has a Pinterest board.
Sarah: It is an amazing Pinterest board.
Amanda: That, that you can still go and look at!
Sarah: Page 3 is an ad for Christina Dodd’s My Favorite Bride, and this ad is so boring.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: It’s got a picture of the book –
Amanda: We’re going to be saying that a lot, everyone.
Sarah: It’s, this is just Dullsville all the way down. We, however, are not going to be dull. We are going to be effervescent –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – and hilarious about how bulling, boring this is. But My Favorite Bride by Christina Dodd, there’s a picture of the book, there’s a little faded castle at the top. The, the tag line is:
>> In affairs of the heart, a lady must never reveal anything. In paperback wherever books are sold.
And there’s a quote from Jill Barnett, and it tells you nothing.
Amanda: This cover, too, I feel like there was an era of historical romances where all covers looked like this?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: And especially, like, Judith McNaught’s historical romances had this –
Sarah: Yes.
Amanda: – sort of cover style for a long time, and that’s what it reminds me of.
Sarah: For a lot of people, Kathryn, Romantic Times, the Mr. Romance pageant represented the beefy model covers, the clinch covers, the big muscular guy covers, and the article was at about the time when romances were starting to pivot towards landscapes and lace and shoes and castles and houses. You remember when all of the, all of the romance covers all of a sudden started having pastel-colored stuff on the covers instead of people –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – and the representation of that era changing and the covers changing was like, well, Kathryn Falk and Romantic Times is the old style, and then this is the new style, and this is where we’re going, because we want to be, you know, more, more classy, I guess, was the intimation there. This is very much of that era.
On page 5 of the PDF is the table of contents, and there’s a, there’s an update on the conference in, in Reno, and then there’s like some Kushiel’s Dart and Sword-Dancer, like hey! Science fiction and fantasy! The perfect alternative for summer reading, and then in the lower corner under a picture of Jayne Ann Krentz – [laughs] – it says:
>> Coming next month, tart noir: a darker shade of chick lit.
Tart noir!
>> Find out why women hold all the cards in this brand of sexy, shocking stories featuring edgy, outrageous, and badly behaved heroines.
Tart noir!
[Laughter]
Sarah: I –
Amanda: I said in the doc, I was like, That’s my burlesque name, is Tart Noir.
Sarah: I love it so much. Tart noir. Are you shitting me?
Amanda: But clearly it did not catch on, because this is the very first – [laughs]
Sarah: I’ve never seen that. And also, we know from romance history that books about heroines that are difficult are harder to sell. We are, we as a community of readers often judge female characters very, very harshly, and tart noir –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – was not going to feed that judgment in the right way. Tart noir, oh my God!
Amanda: Tart noir.
Sarah: On page 6, we have Flavia Knightsbridge “Under the Covers.” It’s only one page this time. I remain amazed that Flavia just shows up in every issue, and I’m convinced that it was a pseudonym for multiple writers. This is the start, and I need someone who knows what happened to tell me what happened. This is September 20-, 2002.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: It’s a long time ago. It was like twenty-two years ago.
>> Am I the only one who finds she must be careful what she dishes of late? Those angry RWA folks sniping at each other over a few loose lips on their message boards, rabid readers ranting about authors who give romance a bad name. It’s enough to make you want to zip it and throw away the key.
All right, what are you talking about? First of all, I love how yet again we’re having the same arguments; these things are perennial.
Amanda: Yep.
Sarah: Authors who give romance a bad name; that’s, like, what, every year, year and a half we start talking about people who are giving romance a bad name, or These people are bad for the genre. RWA people are mad that someone is blabbing what’s on their message boards? Oh boy.
Amanda: I’m trying, I’m trying to see if I can find anything. [Laughs]
Sarah: I really hope that RWA still doesn’t have message boards. I’m pretty sure they closed them down because those things were a hot mess. ‘Cause the thing about message boards is that you have to moderate them, and –
Amanda: Yep.
Sarah: – eventually, when you have an organization this big and a lot of them are online and they’re all on this message board, moderation becomes a full-time job. That can’t be something you do for, like, half an hour in the afternoon. It’s, it’s a much bigger responsibility. And I don’t think they were prepared for that. Like, Message Board Moderator Wanted. Can you imagine that job description? [Laughs] Nooo!
Amanda: No, thank you. Mm-mm.
Sarah: RWA folks sniping each other about loose lips on their message boards. Wow.
Amanda: So yeah, probably, like, they have private message boards for RWA members –
Sarah: Yes, they did!
Amanda: – or whatever, and people are telling people not in those message boards what’s happening, and they’re like, I thought this was a closed space, is probably my guess.
Sarah: It’s never a closed space. If you wrote it down and your name’s on it, it’s not a closed space.
Amanda: No.
Sarah: Also on the Flavia’s page is an announcement about Romancing Mister Bridgerton! Which I think is so kind of quaint. Like, I love when things line up like that? Like the second half –
Amanda: We didn’t plan this –
Sarah: We did not plan this.
Amanda: – let’s be clear.
Sarah: This was a complete accident. Bridgerton this year is based on Romancing Mister Bridgerton.
>> Plenty of readers have been busy buzzing about and buying Julia Quinn’s unmasking of Lady Whistledown in her latest. The hot paperback is flying off shelves, clocking Quinn in at number one on Waldenbooks’ bestseller list and number six on USA Today.
I just love (a) all these mentions of old bookstores and their bestseller lists, but I also love it when things line up historically like this? Like, the, the Romancing Mister Bridgerton season –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – is airing this month, and we’ve got people talking about the release. Also, these books were published a long fucking time ago.
Amanda: I know!
Sarah: I just want to point out something: on PDF page 7, stick a pin on that. There’s a whole half page about a – [huffs] – a children’s book written by a seven-year-old who’s the granddaughter of the RT convention’s events director and costume designer. So the daughter of one of the –
Amanda: I didn’t even know RT had a, its own costume designer. That was news to me.
Sarah: Yep. But hey, she’s, she’s a published author at age seven: The Fluffy Duck. [Laughs]
Page 10 is the letters to the editor, and you’ll never guess what is the issue now. They’re complaining about reviews. Ahhh!
Amanda: Hmm. [Laughs]
Sarah: So Gail Farrelly wrote:
>> As always, I’m enjoying my RT. Love the changes and the new format. I very much enjoyed Patricia Waddell’s July letter about rude reviews.
Okay, for the record, this is before we came online, so this is not about us. Just want to be clear.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: This is September 2002. They’re not talking about us; we didn’t show up till 2005.
>> As an author of two mystery paperbacks, I’ve solved the mystery of dealing with rude reviews. Authors take note! Just think of these two quotes written more than a century apart:
>> A bad review is even less important than whether it is raining in Patagonia. – Iris Murdoch
Oh yeah?
>> And two: To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing, by Elbert Hubbard.
And then another person wrote in and said:
>> It must be remembered that book reviewing is an art, not a science, and it comes down to personal opinion. Just as I can’t stand modern art and think a picture should look like what’s being painted, another person might consider me a philistine. That said, no review should be aimed at the author.
What? Is, I, I need to find this letter! Right?
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: They’re talking about July. I only have June 2001. This is the first 2002 issue. So now I have to specifically hunt down July 2002 to find out who they were complaining about, because it clearly wasn’t us, but this is a conversation that happens all the time.
Amanda: Yeah. The July letter –
Sarah: I –
Amanda: – about rude reviews.
Sarah: I want to find out all about it. I’m going to have to find it online. There’s also a mention in a response to someone else responding about the new, new rating system.
>> As for the suggestion that RT reviewers are kinder because of publisher advertising, this is completely untrue. Our reviewers do not work here in our New York office and have no idea who is advertising, so this is not a consideration in their reviews.
That’s the second or third time we’ve seen them say there’s no connection between what was purchased and what was reviewed. I find that very interesting.
Amanda: At this point, have read a lot of reviews from this magazine –
Sarah: Quite a few.
Amanda: – and it is very – yeah – it is very rare that we get (1) a one-star review or two-star review, and (2) that those reviews actually say anything truly negative –
Sarah: No.
Amanda: – about the book. Like really pan a book. So.
Sarah: But if they do –
Amanda: I think it’s a style choice. I think it’s a style guide probably that it’s like, Hey, we don’t give, like, outright bad, bad reviews.
Sarah: But if you’ve noticed, when we have seen a one-star and been like, Wow, that was a really clear negative review about this book, it’s never in the Romance section. It’s mystery, thriller, science fiction, fantasy. It’s not written by one of their regular reviewers, so I wonder if there was, like, like you said, a style guide or even unspoken guidance. But yeah, it’s –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – it’s very interesting. Very, very interesting.
Page 12, there is an ad, and at the bottom there’s a rebate.
>> Avon Romance rebate: Not only does Avon bring you terrific books, but a fabulous rebate. Buy any of these titles and receive a two dollar rebate off next month’s title. Get the details in the back of any of these great romance, great Avon romances.
So, wait, did you have to send the, like, receipt to Avon, or were bookstores own, oh, honoring this? Like, how do you make that happen? Is it just one bookstore? Are they trying to – ‘cause I don’t know if they could do a promotion that would be like drive all the traffic to one bookstore, although they do do that with special editions with Barnes and Noble. I mean –
Amanda: Well, when I –
Sarah: What?
Amanda: – when I bought that copy of Heaven by Bobbi Smith, there was that card still tucked in?
Sarah: Oh, the subscription card, yeah, ‘cause they all did mail order.
Amanda: So I wonder, yeah, I wonder if these books have a card in them that you would then mail in.
Sarah: Right, and then you’d get a coupon good for two dollars off –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – any of the next – wooow.
Amanda: Yeah. Which is probably like half the cost of those fucking books at this, in 2002?
Sarah: Yeah! That’s a big discount! And the books that were – oh, I see! It, there’s an August book, a September book, an October book, and a November book, so if you buy the August you get two dollars off the September. I wonder if you can stack it; by the time you get to November it’s free? [Laughs] That’d be cool!
Amanda: But if you buy November, then you’re screwed!
Sarah: True. Unless they keep going in December. I wonder how that worked, and I wonder if it worked? Like, that’s really interesting.
Amanda: I don’t know.
Sarah: Rebate is not –
Amanda: I was really tempted –
Sarah: – a word I see a lot. [Laughs]
Amanda: I was, like, really tempted to, like, mail in that, like, postcard that was in the copy of Heaven, ‘cause it gets you like four free books or something like that from Zebra, and I’m like, I doubt – [laughs] – do anything.
Sarah: Who’s at Kensington that we know where you could be like send them a picture and be like, So, you going to honor this if I send it in? [Laughs]
Amanda: I don’t think I know anyone at Kensington now.
Sarah: [Laughs] That’s so funny though!
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: So you noticed, once again, this absolutely goofy calendar.
Amanda: What the fuck is this?
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: Like, they have author birthdays, which –
Sarah: ‘Kay.
Amanda: – sure.
Sarah: Great. Well, wait, wait, we have their name and then thanks to her other publication, I might have their legal name and the pseudonym list, and now I’ve got their date of birth. I’m, like, halfway –
Amanda: Yeah, date of birth.
Sarah: – to identity theft now.
Amanda: Well, some of these people are dead. Like, Ag-, Agatha Christie? We can celebrate her birthday on the 15th.
Sarah: Okay!
Amanda: But then they have, if you look at the 5th:
>> On a crisp, clear day, go to an orchard and pick your own apples. Find yummy recipes at michiganapples.com.
Sarah: What?
Amanda: Yeah! Or:
>> Harvest summer’s last basil to make pesto sauce. Freeze in ice cube trays and you’ll taste July in January. For recipes and lore –
Sarah: [Snorts]
Amanda: >> – go to pesto.net.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: If you want pesto lore.
Sarah: Pesto lore! I think that might be the subtitle of this episode!
Amanda: Pesto – I’m seeing if pesto.net still exists.
Sarah: Please –
Amanda: It does!
Sarah: No! Oh my God! I – see what this, see what this series gives us, everyone? Pesto.net. Oh my God. Oh, and it’s in Italian or English! We are working for you. But you’re not, there’s nothing there!
Amanda: There’s nothing there! It’s just one image.
Sarah: It’s just a picture!
Amanda: Yeah, of pesto!
Sarah: What is pesto net working for me? We’re working for you on what? Pesto? Where do I get the pesto?
Amanda: I want to see if Michigan Apples is still –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: Michigan Apples is still around, everybody.
Sarah: Amazing! Truly amazing.
Amanda: And it works! [Laughs] It’s an actual – you can find Michigan Apples! Yeah, so some of these are just interesting.
Sarah: Little bit. But it also –
Amanda: And then, like –
Sarah: – what, what is this here for? What’s the purpose of this?
Amanda: I don’t know! The end of the month it just says:
>> Take time to enjoy the sights and smells of fall. Jump into a pile of freshly raked leaves.
Sarah: Okay, I got a couple things to say about that.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: I’m going to go on a tangent, and I promise –
Amanda: Red bugs!
Sarah: Future Sarah, Future Sarah, when you’re editing this, do not take this out, because this is an important piece of information.
First of all, if you raked up all of those leaves, got all those trees and all those leaves and you spent all that time raking those leaves, ‘cause, you know, in some places you can’t use leaf blowers, you’ve got to do it by hand, you’ve got to rake all those leaves, and some fucking rando just jumps in the middle of the pile and makes a big mess? And it’s not, like, the kids, it’s just some random woman with an RT magazine, like, ruining all your work? I’d be kind of mad.
Second of all – this is very important – I have a dog. I used to have two dogs, and let me tell you about the seasonal change of their favorite things to pee on. In January, in the winter, it’s snow, especially as they had bad eyesight; they could see where to sniff, because the snow was yellow. And in spring we have weed piles, and, and then moving into summer, we have hostas, which have big leaves to hold the pee. And in the fall, do you know what they pee on and under and over and in the middle of? Leaf piles. Leaf piles are made of dog pee. Do not jump in the leaves!
Amanda: For us, in north Florida, it was chiggers? Like those little, red mites? And they would just bite the shit out of you.
Sarah: Oh, chiggers are the worst!
Amanda: Yeah, so, you know, my dad would be doing yard work, and then we’d have to, like, check him when he came in. So, like, don’t jump in piles of leaves. [Laughs]
Sarah: Take the time to enjoy the sights and smells of fall. Jump into a pile of freshly raked leaves. No, I want a pumpkin spice latte, and I want to feel good about that, and I’m not jumping in chigger/wee leaves.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: No.
Amanda: But –
Sarah: Okay, so now that we’ve discussed this absolutely useless calendar full of bad advice –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: On page 16 there is an article about Jayne Ann Krentz rereleasing books from 1986 in 2002 to grab the futuristics trend. Now, first of all, we’re seeing that now with retcon romantasy. Like I said, I love it when history lines up in a perfect circle all, all the way around. We’re already seeing older books rereleased as romantasy from twenty years ago, but now, looking, looking at this, Shield’s Lady; the Synergy, Inc. series; Amaryllis, Zinnia, Orchid; and then Sweet Starfire and Crystal Flame are books from the mid ‘80s being released almost, over fifteen years later. Those are going to be two very different styles of writing. I wonder how well this went and if those futuristics found an audience in 2002.
Amanda: Also want to know how many pseudonyms Jayne Ann Krentz has.
Sarah: Seven.
Amanda: So she has Jayne Ann Krentz –
Sarah: Wait, I have a book –
Amanda: She has seven?
Sarah: – published by Kathryn Falk.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: I have a book –
Amanda: There’s –
Sarah: – published by Kathryn Falk, and I’m going to look it up for you. I want you to list as many as you know.
Amanda: So there’s Jayne Ann Krentz; there’s Jayne Castle; on this page it ri-, it lists Amanda Glass? And I think she’s also Amanda Quick –
Sarah: Yep!
Amanda: – if I remember correctly? Those are the four that I have.
Sarah: I think she has six. So, wait, what’s –
Amanda: According to her Wikipedia page it says sev- – what, what is it? – seven.
>> She’s the author of a string of bestsellers under seven different pseudonyms –
Sarah: Oh, I’m off!
Amanda: >> – but now –
Sarah: Seven! My God!
Amanda: >> – but now she only uses three.
Sarah: Oh, well.
Amanda: So she probably uses Castle, Jayne Ann Krentz, and Amanda Quick.
Sarah: Okay.
Amanda: I have them.
Sarah: Jayne Ann Krentz, Jayne Bentley –
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: – Jayne Castle –
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: – Stephanie James, Jayne Taylor –
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: – and Amanda Glass –
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: – and Amanda Quick isn’t listed here. So that’s one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Yep! Wow. I can’t believe –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – you asked that question and I conveniently have this spiral-bound book that will tell me –
Amanda: When was her first Amanda Quick book?
Sarah: I don’t know!
Amanda: We’re going to find out.
Sarah: We’re going to find out. That’s not in this book by Kathryn Falk. Man, Kathryn Falk, I’m going to have to, like, invite her to Thanksgiving or something.
Amanda: Interesting: Amanda, Ravished by Amanda Quick was first published in 1992.
Sarah: Ohhh!
Amanda: I wonder, wait, I wonder if it was originally published under Amanda Glass in 1992 –
Sarah: Or Sam-, or Samantha James. Or Samantha James.
Amanda: – and then now as Amanda Quick.
Sarah: Amanda Quick. I don’t know, ‘cause –
Amanda: ‘Cause I never heard of Amanda Glass before.
Sarah: No. No, I haven’t either. But it’s interesting to see futuristics being republished over fifteen years later to grab a trend. Like, that’s, that’s interesting. And –
Amanda: We’re still doing that now!
Sarah: Yep! Everything old is new again.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: I do not know why – I don’t know if this is true for your scan as well? But my scan has this weird cross-hatching from the, from trying to scan the print, and I think I had the DPI set incorrectly.
So on page, the PDF page 17, there’s a slightly problematic picture of a woman who is white with long hair wearing what looks like a belly dancer –
Amanda: She looks like Lana Del Rey.
Sarah: She looks like Lana Del Rey; she’s wearing a belly dancer’s costume? But it looks like it’s too big. Like it’s really, really too big. It’s a very strange image, but that’s the cover of Enchantment – I have to enlarge the PDF to read this; I’m so sorry for the quality – Enchantment by Kathleen Nance? But I wanted to –
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: – draw your attention to The Shadow Prince by Jan Zimlich, and I looked at that, and I thought, What’s wrong with his head? So then I picture, I put the picture in our document in color. That, The Shadow Prince has no neck.
Amanda: Correct, he does not.
Sarah: And it is not straight, either. His head is glued to his body, but just a little bit to one side. So he’s not only asymmetrical, but he has no neck.
Amanda: Yes.
Sarah: Very upsetting. And then if you look below it –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – Wanton Splendor, that heroine’s neck is broken!
Amanda: Why don’t they like necks?
Sarah: I don’t know!
Amanda: What do they have against necks?
Sarah: I’m going to have to put these covers in the show notes because, like, look at this, look at this poor girl’s neck! I’m putting it in the, in the document. Look at her neck! She’s dead.
Amanda: Yeah, that’s just so uncomfortable. You’re going to tweak your neck, and then it’s going to hurt for like a week and a half.
Sarah: Wait a minute; her neck is really long. Do you think she has the shadow prince’s neck and her neck?
Amanda: She’s absorbed his neck.
Sarah: [Laughs] She stole his neck! Oh no!
Amanda: It’s how she feeds.
Sarah: Oh! Nom, nom, nom.
And then on page 18 there’s an ad for Awe-Struck Publishing, which was Awe dash Struck, but the thing that I loved was it said:
>> Now available in print and pixel!
[Laughs]
Amanda: Yeah, and then there’s also the tagline of:
>> Where wilderness challenges heart and soul
And I’d, for anyone who is new here, I don’t like being outside.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: I’m not an outside kid. I was not a kid who climbed trees or did sports. I do not like being outside at all, and so where wilderness challenges heart and soul is my personal nightmare. I do not want to be challenged when I decide to leave my home. [Laughs] I don’t want any challenges! I’m already, like, sweating, and it’s too hot. I’m too delicate.
Sarah: And now it’s humid and there’s bugs?
Amanda: Ugh.
Sarah: No, thank you.
Amanda: Disgusting.
Sarah: Also, these covers are all bad, but in a boring way.
Amanda: Yeah! They’re just not interesting. [Laughs]
Sarah: They’re just boring! Bad and boring! And it’s sad, because, like, I don’t know –
Amanda: We’ve, we’ve moved on from the – so, like, this is right at, this is, like, in the middle, so we’re, like, right after sort of like bonkers Old School historicals and then right before the, like, early 2000s paranormals that are just wild, so like 2005, 2006. So I feel like this is like the calm before the storm we’re experiencing. [Laughs]
Sarah: On page 22, there is a recipe. Now, I don’t think it’s a particularly well-written recipe, but there’s one thing that I like about it. I mean, we’ve, we’ve already discussed that more recipes would be an interesting addition to this magazine? But this is by Stella Cameron, to go with her book Cold Day in July. It’s dinner in a book: Creole Crawfish Pies and a space, Spicy Bayou Tale. And she –
Amanda: I’m out. I’m out already.
Sarah: Well, it’s got shrimp in it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: You’re, you’re done. You don’t like outside and you don’t like seafood, and yet! You’re from Florida.
Amanda: Mm-hmm. Well, like, I went to lunch, I went to a ramen spot with a friend, and I ordered my ramen, and what I didn’t know was that it came with little, little dried shrimps?
Sarah: Ooh.
Amanda: With their little, with their little black beady eyeballs?
Sarah: Oh!
Amanda: Like, teeny-tiny, and I’m like, I’m – it’s not an allergy, so it’s fine, so I’m like, I’ll eat around it, but it was very disconcerting to try to take a slurp of my noodle and see these little shrimp eyeballs looking at me as one of the dried shrimps were attached to the noodle, and I’m like – [laughs] –
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: – I just want to eat my noodles in peace without being stared at!
Sarah: But it wants to talk to you! Have you heard the good news –
Amanda: Ohhh.
Sarah: – about pickleball?
[Laughter]
Amanda: It was unsettling, and I did not like it. Anyway – [laughs] – continue with this recipe.
Sarah: So, aside from the eyeballs –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: >> About fifteen minutes prior to your reading time, get out your skillet, add some, a half stick of butter, chopped scallions, couple of garlic cloves, minced. Sauté, add fresh, fresh –
Oh, excuse me.
>> Add a package of frozen crawfish tail.
Here’s where this recipe loses me.
>> If they smell a little fishy, soak them in milk –
Amanda: Ugh.
Sarah: >> – first for about ten minutes, then toss the milk.
What’d that do? Just occlude one spoil with another? Like, what is that? If this is going to give you food poisoning, Amanda will – like, I read that and Amanda just, like, leaned back shaking her head like Nope, nope, nope-nope-nope-nope.
Amanda: If you really wanted to be a jackass –
Sarah: [Laughs] I’m listening.
Amanda: – you could save the milk – [laughs] – and give it to somebody. Like, my dad would always drink an ice-cold glass of milk – with ice in it – at dinner, and fifteen minutes before dinner he would pour his glass of milk, put ice in it, and put it in the freezer so it was ice cold?
Sarah: Ooh.
Amanda: What if you just served someone crawfish milk?
Sarah: Oh no. Oh no!
Amanda: [Laughs] That’s disgusting.
Sarah: Auughh. Oh! Oh, I’m sorry, crawfish milk is making my stomach just roll over all the way downhill.
Amanda: [Laughs] Could I interest you in some crawfish milk?
Sarah: So, setting aside the part where your frozen crawfish tails might smell fishy and you need to soak them in milk, add a cream of, cream of mushroom soup, suther, smother with some brands of seasoning, cayenne pepper, let simmer.
>> Pour mixture into five-inch pie shells or mini pastry shells and bake at 350 degrees.
This is the part I like:
>> Begin chapter one. By the time you discover that Toussaint medical examiner Reb O’Brien and her ex-lover Marc Girard have just returned home to search for the truth about his missing sister reunite to prove that a young female singer’s death was not an accident, you can take your mini pies out of the oven.
[Laughs]
Amanda: Wow. Okay.
Sarah: I love it!
>> About fifteen to twenty minutes.
I don’t love the whole fish, soak your fish in milk – which could also be the subtitle of this episode – but, I mean, I love the idea of –
Amanda: Soak your fish in…
Sarah: – start, start the chapter. When you get to this part and you’ve learned all of these things, you’re good. Like, that’s a very silly but charming way to write a recipe for this magazine.
Okay –
Amanda: Ugh.
Sarah: – on page 23, there are two things that I wish to talk about. I’m going to start with the spot with the, with the spy moms. On the right there’s an article:
>> Ever read a PI novel and thought, Gee I wish I could do that? Meet two sisters who’ve made that dream a reality. Valerie Agosta and Jan Cluff, co-owners of Two Moms in a Minivan PI Agency are both breast cancer survivor and, survivors. Ironically, this life-threatening disease was the catalyst for making their lives more fulfilling. They decided to be PIs, and because anyone, because “who better to be the invisible investigator than invisible middle-aged moms who are everywhere? We all look the same and drive the same minivans.”
Okay, first of all, brilliant. Second of all, I could do an entire episode just about Valerie Agosta. She wrote a book called Spy Mom. It’s available on Amazon in hardcover, and it is about how she became a private investigator, and she, she does stakeouts in between the grocery store runs and picking up her kids; she find lost loves; she renite, reunites adoptees with parents, uncovers insurance fraud, and nabs internet scammers. Now, there’s a lot of God talk in there – I believe the Jesus by Volume would be quite substantial here – but that’s adorable. Unfortunately, Val Agosta died from complications due to breast cancer back in 2009. She had been, she had been living with breast cancer for ten years. Her obituary talks a lot about Spy Mom’s private investigations and how proud she was, how many com-, how many clients she served, and it made a note, most for no charge. That’s just –
Amanda: Oh wow!
Sarah: – very cool. So cheers to Valerie Ann Agosta for being a spy mom. I find that frigging amazing, and how that was not a television show I do not know, because imagine that series.
Amanda: I would make a terrible PI, and I know that about myself, because I am not a subtle person.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: So –
Sarah: You’re very sparkly?
Amanda: [Laughs] My binoculars would be full-on out, no trying to hide it. It’d be terrible.
Sarah: I don’t think I would blend in well enough either. I don’t think I could do that.
Amanda: No.
Sarah: There is also an article that we both flagged on page 23, and I think you should read this because it’s so mean?
Amanda: The headline alone; it’s called “The Shocking Truth behind Christina Dodd’s Nasty Little Habit.”
Sarah: What?! The hell.
Amanda: What. A terrible. Thing. To say. [Laughs]
Sarah: Right?
Amanda: But it’s only, it’s only two paragraphs.
>> It can be very sad when a talented person succumbs to the lure of a dangerous vice, but author Christina Dodd has no compunction about hiding her addiction. In the name of paying homage, the author cheerfully admits to cribbing the plots of some of her most romantic stories of all time for her novels. “What I do is honor those stories that deserve to be revisited, drawing on the rich traditions of the storytellers before me. It’s not the same story because it has the same TV Guide blurb. It’s the author’s voice that tells the tale. Look at the similarities between Sabrina and Cinderella, My Fair Lady and Pygmalion, Clueless and Emma, Bridget Jones’s Diary and Pride and Prejudice.”
>> Hmm, maybe she isn’t technically a klepto, but even Dodd must admit the heroine of My Favorite Bride, her new historical from Avon, definitely has some sticky fingers. When the artful Dodd decided to lift the plot from yet another beloved love story – The Sound of Music, to be, to be specific – she clearly let her pilfering tendencies transfer to her leading lady. In her version, Maria’s a former pickpocket. In the latest in her Governess Brides series, Dodd alters just enough details to stay on the right side of the law, so the heroine is really named Samantha, not Maria, and she falls in love with Colonel William Gregory, not Captain von Trapp, and the kids are six rebellious daughters, not a mixed set of boys and girls. Still, there’s singing and play clothes and parties and hilltops, so really it’s all the same. But a pickpocketing governess? Well, really, what would Julie Andrews say?
Yikes!
Sarah: Yikes! Now –
Amanda: Yikes!
Sarah: – okay. I could see this being, this trying to be tongue-in-cheek, like her heroine is a pickpocket, and she’s doing a retelling of The Sound of Music, so let’s make her a criminal too as a way of, like, tying her into the heroine. I could see this going for tongue-in-cheek, but wow, I think it missed.
Amanda: And, you know, just a little fun fact that the von Trapp family, the relatives own a farmstead in Vermont where they sell cheese.
Sarah: Ooh!
Amanda: Yep!
Sarah: I just need you to know, I sent you one cheese story on Instagram, and now my feed is nonstop cheese porn. Thank you.
Amanda: You’re welcome. [Laughs]
Sarah: I am very pleased. Also, the similarities between Sabrina and Cinderella, My Fair Lady and Pygmalion, Clueless and Emma, Bridget Jones’s Diary and Pride and Prejudice – those aren’t, those are, those are the – okay. I, those are actually retellings of the same story, but they acknowledge it. Like, they’re not – this makes it sound like, oh, look at the, look at the fast one they pulled you by – [laughs] – by making Clueless and Emma! Like, no, that was a deliberate connection. Those were deliberate retellings. It wasn’t supposed to be, like, thievery. I, oh! This is just so confusing. I think we’re spending more time on this than anyone else did. [Laughs]
Amanda: I don’t know; I feel – [laughs] – like if I were Christina Dodd I would be pissed.
Sarah: Well, she gave quotes! Like, it, it sounds like she might have been in on it? Or she was super pissed. I don’t know, but oy! Oy!
Amanda: I’d be pissed about this…
Sarah: Today in Yikes. So you –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – wanted to talk about page 29.
Amanda: Yeah! Page 29, so twenty-, 29 in the PDF –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Amanda: – has a giant list of book and storytelling celebrations for September –
Sarah: Ooh!
Amanda: – and it’s this big list of book festivals and storytelling festivals. Not a super helpful list, because it just lists the region, a phone number, and maybe a website if they have it? I’m assuming, because they say celebrations for September, that all of these are happening in September? But yeah, so they don’t list when – [laughs] – this is happening!
Sarah: No. You just have to look around and be like, Oh! Swamp Gravy Storytelling Festival! Wonder when that is!
Amanda: Yeah! And I’m very curious how many of these festivals are still going.
Sarah: But you’ve got to look up all these different festivals and see if it’s one near you.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: That’s, that’s wild.
On page 31, my comment in the document is Oh my God. And I didn’t quite remember what it was, and then I scrolled to it, and again I say to you, Oh my God! The first –
Amanda: At first I thought it was the Connie, the, the Connie Brockway cover, and I was like, Oh, do we have tea on Connie? But…was the –
Sarah: No! Nonono. Then you go to the page on the, in the PDF and –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – Oh my God! The Third Wife:
>> Jasmine Cresswell explores the intriguing world of polygamy set against modern-day culture in her latest romantic suspense.
There’s a little part in here where she – [laughs] – she defends polygamy?
Amanda: Yeah, she’s like, The advantages of polygamy for the male of the species – I’m like, Nooo!
Sarah: All that sexual variety.
>> But it’s a system that provides advantages for women too.
Spoiler alert: no, it doesn’t.
>> Speaking personally, and not on behalf of my characters, I definitely not, I would definitely not like to be part of a polygamous household. On the other hand, I’m not quite sure why polygamy continues to be illegal. It is practiced more widely than you might imagine, mostly by religious sects that have broken away from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, often referred to as Mormons. What purpose does it achieve to prosecute a man who marries more than one woman for what he believes are sound religious reasons when we wouldn’t consider prosecuting a man who remains married to one woman but has extramarital affairs with two, ten, or even twenty different women, or extramarital affairs with twenty different men, for that matter? Why is bigamy a criminal offense, but adultery is barely even a sin? Yeah, if we’re hoping to protect the children of polygamous marriages from being forced as minors into a polygamous relationship like my heroine had to endure, it seems to me that we ought to concentrate on exactly that, as opposed to worrying about consenting adults whose chosen lifestyle doesn’t conform to i-, our idea of what ought to be the norm.
Are you fucking kidding me? You just explained why!
Amanda: It’s give –
Sarah: You just said why it should be, should be illegal. What is the – what?! What –
Amanda: It’s giving me the, that meme of, like, An Enlightened Centrist, if you know what I –
[Laughter]
Amanda: It’s like, Well, polygamy’s not all that bad.
Sarah: I mean, I wouldn’t want to be in a polygamous – what is this? Why was this published? Wow. Okay. I cannot believe –
Amanda: I –
Sarah: – this article. I’m still in shock. Like, what?! Okay.
Amanda: This makes more sense than you calling out the Connie Brockway ad. I was like –
Sarah: Yes!
Amanda: – What’s happening?
Sarah: The Connie Brockway ad was not the problem here. Whoo!
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: So you wanted to look at page 34.
Amanda: Yeah, because there’s this tagline. It’s an ad for what press? Avid, Avid Press. So they have four covers, a very startling clip art cat, and there’s this tagline of:
>> Curl up with a cup of tea, an apple, your cat, and a really good book. Your next adventure is waiting.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: And I just feel – [laughs] – I need to go on a tangent of, maybe this is a post for the site of, like, what’s your favorite reading snack? But a fucking apple is not one of them, because an apple is so involved in eating – [laughs] – that you’re just going to get, your hand is going to get sticky, and you’re going to fuck up your Kindle or whatever paper book you’re reading!
Sarah: That’s a very sticky thing to eat. I have said several times that we should make a cookbook of food to eat with your, while you’re reading – Reading Snacks – but, like, pretty much anything can be a reading snack. I don’t know; I just don’t like –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – being given a to-do list. Okay, so you’ve got to get yourself book, a cup of tea, then you need to go find an apple, then you go get your cat and the book. Now, okay, now you can, now you can go read. Like, my cat’s going to be like –
Amanda: I’m also –
Sarah: – I do not respond to commands. What is this?
Amanda: I’m bad at drinking tea? I’m not a giant tea fan to begin with, unless it’s sweet tea. But hot tea is just lightly flavored water to me –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – and I don’t like drinking water in general; that’s why I drink bubbly seltzer that’s flavored. [Laughs] But I always forget about it too, because it’s scalding hot, and then I’m like, I’ll wait for it to cool down, and then it’s like five hours later and I remember, Fuck, I have tea –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – and then I will put it in the microwave to reheat it, and then the process begins anew of –
Sarah: Yep!
Amanda: – it’s too hot, wait five hours –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – Fuck, I had tea, put it back in the microwave – [laughs] – scalding hot, wait five hours.
Sarah: The minute you said, Put the tea in the microwave, about ten list-, ten listeners probably went Oh no! I got Adam one of those Ember mugs –
Amanda: Sorry, I’m a dirty American who microwaves everything.
Sarah: Filthy American. I got Adam one of those Ember mugs that keeps your coffee or tea at a set temperature? You control it with an app? He was like, This is so ridiculous. This, this is such a ridiculous product. It’s so great; he loves it.
Amanda: I have a mug warmer that looks like a cat, that it’s USB that I plug in?
Sarah: Oh, you sit it on, right?
Amanda: Yeah –
Sarah: You set your drink on it.
Amanda: – that I plug into my computer. But I’m a, I’m a coffee girl, and I, like –
Sarah: Oh, me too.
Amanda: – slurp down my coffee the second I get it, ‘cause, you know, also the same thing: I forget that it’s there, it gets lukewarm and gross, and then I – [laughs] – put it in the microwave and –
Sarah: And the cycle continues.
Amanda: – there we go! The cycle begins!
Sarah: So on page 56 is our cover story, the one that was the reason everyone voted for this: “Looking for Love in SF and Fantasy? Try an Out-of-This-World read!” It’s basically this person’s reading history: here’s how I got into science fiction and fantasy –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – and here’s why I, I – this is, this is not, this is not telling me anything. What did you think of this?
Amanda: Admittedly, love fantasy romance, love sci-fi romance, but I am a very visual person? And I am that person where if I don’t necessarily like the cover art, it’s not motivating me to go any further? And this sort of ‘70s and ‘80s and early ‘90s art style that’s on a lot of sci-fi and fantasy – not even just romantasy, right?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Does not appeal to me in the slightest?
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: And so this…I have no desire to read any of these books, desi-, despite knowing that these authors are beloved and read frequently. Like, Anne McCaffrey’s The Rowan with these, like, lime green tights this woman is wearing?
Sarah: And a very big cat; look at the size of that cat.
Amanda: That cat’s pissed.
[Laughter]
Amanda: That cat looks so fucking mad. Like a lot of RT articles, it feels promotional –
Sarah: Yeah. Here is a list of names!
Amanda: – rather than, like, anything interesting.
Sarah: It’s certainly not an exploration of science fiction, fantasy, and the female fascination. Like, it’s not explaining specifically what readers are finding in romance that they can also find in fantasy? Or is it supposed to be what fantasy and, and science fiction readers are finding in romance? Like, it’s – I get it; there are authors who straddle the genre. We can talk about J. D. Robb and Dara Joy and Jayne Ann Krentz. That’s obvious, but this is very superficial; it’s just literally a list of names.
Amanda: Yeah, and they talk about, like, Tor’s ongoing, like, women in fantasy program and, like, conventions, so it just feels more, like, promotional of, like, a trend?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: – rather than really looking at why the trend is popular –
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: – at all.
Sarah: And it’s not really explaining anything in a way that is useful, except, until you get to Where do we go from here? Glossary of science fiction and fantasy subgenres. I’m not sure I agree with the glossy, glossary, because here’s what it says about epic, heroic, or high fantasy:
>> Focuses on sweeping plots where the fate of whole worlds or nations rests on the characters and personal happiness is a side issue. Often a coming-of-age quest is employed to rescue the world. High fantasy might use more lyrical language and employ more royal or fantastical characters as part of its scenario.
I am being nitpicky, I admit it, because I was so excited to read this, and I was like, Oh, this isn’t telling me anything. So under epic, heroic, or high fantasy, who should try these?
>> Readers who enjoy the personal journeys of women’s fiction novels, especially those laden with obstacles like Jude Deveraux’s Montgomery heroines –
Amanda: No!
Sarah: >> – or the novels of Judith McNaught and Dorothy Garlock.
Amanda: No!
Sarah: What?!
Amanda: No!
Sarah: No, that doesn’t make any sense! I’m so confused.
Amanda: Like, Judith McNaught’s books are so highly dramatic and highly emotional and highly, like, personal. You’re comparing a setting to specific characters –
Sarah: [Laughs] Amanda, it’s so funny!
Amanda: – in these other books.
Sarah: Oh, do you like George R. R. Martin? [Laughs] Have I got an author for you! Let me give you a Jude Deveraux novel where she, where the heroine can tell the twins apart! Totally the same thing!
Amanda: This is, like, not –
[Laughter]
Amanda: This just does not compute! Like, I –
Sarah: No.
Amanda: – don’t understand! And then they go to recommend The Lord of the Rings.
Sarah: Yeah!
Amanda: Like, I’m sorry; if someone is reading this article, they know, they probably know who the fuck J. R. R. Martin, or J –
[Laughter]
Amanda: – or George – we’re, the streams are crossing –
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: – J. R. R. Tolkien is, and I feel like –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – as someone who has recommended books for a living –
Sarah: …long time.
Amanda: – people don’t want obvious answers.
Sarah: No.
Amanda: People don’t want you to recommend them classics, unless they’re specifically asking, Hey, what’s an underrated classic? But, like, these are so part of, like, the common, like, fantasy lexicon –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Amanda: – that, like, they’ve, probably already have them on their radar.
Sarah: Yeah!
Amanda: Yeah, I was very disappointed. Like, I mean, there’s lot of name recognition, but I feel like if you’re already – one, who is this article for? If you’re trying to –
Sarah: That’s a good question.
Amanda: – get new people into the gen- – yeah – if you’re trying to get new people into the genre, I don’t know if this does it really, and people who love the genre and want more of it, they already know all of these names, most likely.
Sarah: Yeah. This isn’t, this isn’t doing much. This is a really strange recommendation series, and I don’t under-, I, I’m so underwhelmed and I’m so bummed, ‘cause I really wanted this to be better than it was. Oh well. Well, that was a disappointment, we’re very sorry to report.
Amanda: [Laughs] And, and for anyone who reads the full scan, would love to know your thoughts on – [laughs] –
Sarah: Yes.
Amanda: – this –
Sarah: Yes.
Amanda: – article.
Sarah: Now, jumping all the way ahead to 83, there is an ad for a book called It’s a Love Thang by Reon Lau-, Laudat or Laudat, and it is one of the worst illustrated covers I have ever seen, and I put a color version in the document so that Amanda could just describe this awful piece of art.
Amanda: It’s very red. Let me just say that.
Sarah: Yes.
Amanda: It’s very red, and it’s very orange.
Sarah: Yes.
Amanda: And it’s an illustrated cover, so, like, the top is like a semicircle –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: – ju-, like a hot red –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: – and then it’s orange in the middle, and then it’s yellow on the bottom. A little candy-corn-ish.
Sarah: Yes, and when you, if you look at it and then you close your eyes, you can still see it.
Amanda: Yeah. And then there’s a Black woman seated at a table that – I can’t tell if it’s, like, hovering or if her legs just go through the table leg?
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: But she’s, has a notebook and a pencil, and then there’s like a giant ice cream, thing of chocolate ice cream in front of her.
Sarah: Yeah.
Amanda: She’s, the limbs are very long.
Sarah: They’re, she’s so stretched out. Look at her neck! She’s like the neck on that book with that guy kissing her neck and breaking it. And her wrists and her fingers –
Amanda: The limbs are very long.
Sarah: – are super – she kind of looks like a –
Amanda: She’s Betty Spaghetty.
Sarah: [Laughs] She is Betty Spaghetty!
Amanda: Have you heard about Betty, Betty Spaghetty?
Sarah: It, it is such a disturbing illustration. Her head is a perfect oval; she has no nose. And then there’s this guy in green pants looking at a newspaper and, like, side-eying her as he reads what is, apparently is The Wall Street Journal. It’s such a creepy illustration.
Amanda: If she stood up from that table –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – she would be like eleven feet tall. She would tower over that newspaper man –
Sarah: Yes!
Amanda: – for sure.
Sarah: Yes. She would, she would be off the page. Oh, so, such a weird cover.
Amanda: Makes sense why she’s sitting down, I guess.
Sarah: Yeah, right? I mean, and those heels.
So jumping ahead to page 102, it’s the second, the section where they promote the conference, and there is a weird-ass thing. So first, they advertise that you get a sturdy canvas bag, compliments of Deborah Smith, stuffed to the brim with over two hundred dollars’ worth of books and “goodies that you will find displayed along Promotion Lane.” So they’re, they’re telling you, if you come to the conference you’re going to get two hundred dollars’ worth of books, and I will say, in my early RTs, I absolutely did.
Amanda: I love those.
Sarah: I put a suitcase inside another suitcase, and then I filled the empty one up with books and, books on, books on tape, like literally on cassette? So many free books.
Amanda: Speaking of RT swag, I literally have a Shayla Black nail file –
Sarah: Ah!
Amanda: – from RT.
Sarah: That’s a nice nail file!
Amanda: Yeah! I mean, it’s in, I keep it, like, at my desk or, like, on the table. It’s, this goes with me, like, everywhere. [Laughs] I can’t tell you how old this is.
Sarah: I was making dinner last night, and I used my Farrah Rochon double-sided measuring spoon.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: Author swag that is good is extremely good. But I, I like that they’re sort of being like, No, if you come, you’re going to get all these books, and that was absolutely true.
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: Then there’s a big page ad for the dinner, and this just made me uncomfortable.
>> New author puts a twist on the annual cover model reunion dinner.
So the author’s name is Twist, her name is Twist Phelan.
>> Roses, candlelight, and dancing with handsome men will transform Wednesday evening into a night of fantasy. The cover model reunion dinner will deliver an Evening of Elegance.
The Es are, are capitalized this.
>> Twist has invited these gorgeous cover models from years past to join this year’s contestants to wine, dine, and dance with you for the evening.
You have to pay extra for this dinner where all of these cover models are going to be flirting with you. I’m so uncomfortable. This just sounds unpleasant.
Amanda: Do they get, like, a little dance card and you write your name?
Sarah: Oh, I love that! They should absolutely get a little dance card.
Amanda: Like, Sorry, my dance card’s full.
Sarah: I’m sorry; I can’t take on any cover models. Yeah, so there’s an extra price, extra charge for the Wednesday night dinner.
>> The author was also providing attendees with a memory book for autographs, and then a photographer will be present to snap a picture of you with your favorite cover model for the cover insert of your memory book.
That had to have been so expensive to produce.
Amanda: I did that once when I, my first trip to Disney World. I had a little autograph book –
Sarah: That’s so cute.
Amanda: – and…autograph, and then my parents would take a photo, and then when we got them developed I would glue the photo on one side, and they would have, like, their autograph on the other. [Laughs]
Sarah: That’s so cute!
Amanda: I don’t know where it is now, but –
Sarah: I imagine this event cost Twist Phelan a lot of money. Memory books, autographs, photographers, all these models?
The next page of the whole Hey, we’re going to the conference in, in, in Nevada, the whole next page is a big list of parties, and also, this was, this was very true of my early years at RT: there were a lot of parties. Which party are you attending? We have the Dara Joy Rendezvous, the Dorchester Swinging Spy Spectacular, Heather Graham’s Vampire Ball –
Amanda: I think, I think I’d go to the PJ party.
Sarah: Pam Binder’s PJ, Pajama Party?
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: There’s going to be karaoke, though.
Amanda: That’s okay. I won’t participate –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Amanda: – but that just seems the most casual.
Sarah: Be sure to bring your memory book!
Amanda: I can wear pajamas.
Sarah: >> The first one hundred fifty people to walk through the door will receive one of Pam’s hot 2002 sleep shirts. Prizes will go to the person who looks the best in their sleep shirt.
What, are you supposed to, like –
Amanda: But do, does it have to be –
Sarah: – accessories?
Amanda: – that sleep shirt?
Sarah: I mean, like, are, do you have to, like, bring accessories and decorate the sleep shirt, like stick some gems on it?
Amanda: I don’t know; some puffy paint? [Laughs]
Sarah: I don’t know.
I think I would be going to – ooh, this is a hard call. Hmm. Welcome reception, the Royal Rosburgs’ Calabrian Renaissance Banquet and Ball? Oh, wear your wench dresses; okay.
I think I’m going to Heather Graham’s Vampire Charity Ball and Mystery Theater, because I can tell you that Heather Graham – it’s a good time.
>> On Friday evening, chills and thrills of murder and mystery will captivate you as you dine during Heather’s Mystery Theater and Charity Vampire Ball. Come dressed as your favorite character of the night and join us in the realm of shadows. You never know who you’ll meet as you dance the night away. Solve the mystery at the dinner theater and be eligible to win a cash prize! Let your imagination run wild with creating your own fantasy creature costume and win one of ten prizes! All funds raised during this event will be donated to the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation.
Amanda: A good cause!
Sarah: I guess you’re just, they’re not, like, selling anything; they’re just, they’re just going to ask for money. I love the idea of Heather Graham writing a mystery for the stage, and then you have to solve the mystery, and then you write down who you thought did it, and then you get drawn for prizes, and there’s a costume ball, and there’s dinner. I just, I just love how any Heather Graham party is a completely awesome party.
Amanda: I mean, or just do what I feel like I did most of the time and show up for ten minutes and then just leave. [Laughs] Go find someplace with free food.
Sarah: My first RT was, I think, the one in Pittsburgh, which was deeply embarrassing ‘cause the hotel was bad, and that was the year where I checked in and there were people with huge matched sets of luggage, and those were the conference attendees, ‘cause, like, each suitcase had a piece of their costume or their wings or whatever, and there were people walking around with fairy wings and a whole court and a pres- – I mean, it was really over the top. I, I kind of miss it. I don’t like gatherings, and I don’t like loudness, and I don’t stay up late –
Amanda: Yeah.
Sarah: – but I kind of miss it! [Laughs]
Amanda: I mean, as someone who loves to people-watch, like, I love an airport –
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
Amanda: – like, this was prime people-watching.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Well, that was, so that was the September 2002 issue. I’m kind of bummed! There weren’t really interesting features, and the, and the cover article was, was not great. Bummer, man!
Amanda: No! It was a bit of a letdown.
Sarah: Yeah! So do we want to choose the next one? Do you want to pick one of the ones that, from the poll?
Amanda: I don’t think this is the fault of the Patreon. They had no idea that this would also be a stinker.
Sarah: Absolutely not. You had no idea; the cover promised a lot.
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: The cover made a lot of promises.
So our poll was July 2014, Lisa Renee Jones; June 2015, Lauren Dane; September 2002, sci-fi/fantasy; December 1997, Sheik by Connie Mason; and June 2000, Juliette Marillier. Now, the September 2002 won by fifty-six percent of the vote. There is a second, third, fourth, and fifth. Would you like to choose from that list, or would you like to know a specific position, and we will do that one?
Amanda: What was second and third?
Sarah: Second place was June 2015, Lauren Dane, with fourteen percent, and third was December 1997, Sheik by Connie Mason with twelve percent.
Amanda: Okay. So here’s the thing –
Sarah: What?
Amanda: – [laughs] – I was either going to say Let’s do the ’97 one or the 2015 one because they’re so far in one direction?
Sarah: Yes. I agree.
Amanda: So those are already ones I was going to consider. I personally was curious about Sheik because it was just such a, a bonkers cover with just the word Sheik.
Sarah: Sheik! Like sensual!
I’m sorry this issue was boring, but I do think that choosing the 1997, December 1997 issue is a, is a brilliant idea.
Amanda: I will have been eight years old.
Sarah: She’s wearing a belly dancer belt on her forehead, and her hair is very –
Amanda: [Laughs]
Sarah: – she’s got a lot of split ends, this woman. So yeah, we will do Sheik! in our next issue.
Amanda: Sheik.
Sarah: That should be fun. I do, I did a full inventory, and I do have issues going back to like 1988, so we have excellent things to choose from. They won’t all be –
Amanda: I feel like in- –
Sarah: They won’t all be this way.
Amanda: – like instead of saying yikes, we just have to say sheiks.
Sarah: Sheiks! [Laughs]
Amanda: Sheiks!
[music]
Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you so much for joining us. I will have links to the books that we talked about, and of course the visual aids link is in the show notes and you can find it at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 621.
Are you ready for the bad joke? I’m ready for the bad joke. It’s my favorite part! This is from Bull, who is part of the podcast Patreon. Thank you, Bull!
How do you serve up food for thought?
Give up? Have a piping-hot think piece and you want to serve up food for thought? How do you serve it?
On a contem-plate.
[Snorts] The next time I read some, like, really, really hefty think piece, I’m just going to think about contemplates. [Laughs] Thanks, Bull!
On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week.
Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.
[end of music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Transcript Sponsor
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So, is the Shadow Prince sponsoring the podcast any relation to the Shadow Prince from RT2002? And is the lack of neck a family characteristic? Inquiring minds want to know.
The discussion of Jayne Anne Krentz’s early books is amusing because I just saw in her newsletter some had been added to KU 20+ after this article.