302. The Value of Talking To Book People: Amanda Reports on BEA and BookCon 2018

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 302 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and today we are talking to Amanda about BEA and BookCon 2018. Fresh from the fresh hell that is the Javits Center, Amanda and I are going to talk about her adventures at BEA, better known as BookExpo America, and BookCon, which happened last week. Sometimes I can record, edit, and produce an episode in a few days, and I’m lucky to be able to do that this week. I’m still working on compiling RT, but those’ll be released soon. So we’re going to talk about BEA and BookCon, what they are, what the differences are between them, and what, or more specifically, who, each one is for. Amanda talked at length about her experiences at BEA and her experiences at BookCon, the wonderful and the execrable, so we’re going to answer fun questions, such as what’s the difference between BEA and BookCon? What comics and books did Amanda learn about this year? How much do I dislike the Javits Center? Will cats interrupt the podcast? What bookish, Brooklyn-based vendor did Amanda fall in love with? And why is Sunday the best day of BookCon? We also talk about a book Amanda loved so much she is pretty sure it’s one of her best books of 2018; yes, it is that good.

This podcast is brought to you by Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane. Beau Petty has been searching his whole life for a place that fills all the empty spaces in him, for a way to tame his restlessness, for answers to the secret he has never stopped trying to solve. What he wasn’t searching for was a woman to claim all of him, but when Cora Silvera walks back into his life, he’s ready to search out all the ways that he can make her his. Cora has spent her life as the family nurturer, taking care of others, but now she’s ready to pass that job on to someone else. It’s time to make some changes and live for herself, and it’s in that moment that her former teenage crush reappears, and the draw and the heat of their instant connection is like nothing either of them has experienced. He craves being around her. She accepts him, dark corners and all. Beau thinks Cora has had enough drama in her life, and he wants to protect her from the secrets of his past, even if it means holding back the last pieces of himself, but Cora is no pushover, and she means to claim all those pieces, because sometimes what you find is not what you were searching for. Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane is on sale June 26th and is available for preorder wherever books are sold.

This week’s transcript is brought to you by you! Everyone who has supported the podcast Patreon helps make sure that every episode, forward and backward in the archives, receives a transcript, and the transcripts make the show more accessible to folks who cannot or don’t wish to listen and ensure that everyone is included, so thank you! Would you like to sponsor an episode or a podcast transcript? Email me! [email protected]. I would love to hear from you, and we can make this fit your budget.

I also have compliments, and this is one of my favorite parts of recording and producing.

To Christa S.: A gathering of TV producers tried to create a reality show where contestants would attempt to replicate everything that makes you fabulous, but it cannot be done. You’re too great.

And to Kathleen W.: There should be a store that has sections devoted to books, shows, movies, food, and art that you like, because you have impeccable taste.

Now, as I mentioned, the support of the Patreon community helps me commission transcripts and maintain equipment for live shows, and I’m planning another one, so stay tuned, RWA Denver folks. I also collaborate with the Patreon community to develop questions for new upcoming podcast guests, and as little as a dollar a month helps you join our goofy group of podcast supporters. Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

I also want to thank some of the Patreon folks personally, so to J, Darice, Jacquelyn, Christina, and Alana, thank you so much for your support and for being part of the Patreon community.

Now – I’m going to set this to music at some point – are there other ways to support the show? Yes, there are! Leave a review wherever you listen; that makes an immense difference! Like, massive difference! However you listen, if you’re subscribed, tell a friend, whatever works. Most of all, thank you for hanging out with me each week; I really appreciate it.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater, and of course I will tell you at the end of the show who this is and how you can purchase it for your very, very own. And at the end of the episode and the outro – which is totally a word! – I have a preview of what’s coming up on the website this week and a terrible joke, a particularly bad one that I really, really enjoy and haven’t told my family yet, so after I record this, when they come home and we have dinner, I’m going to inflict it upon them too. [Evil laugh] And in the podcast entry at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, I will have links to many things that we talk about in this episode, especially the T-shirt company that Amanda is so excited about, and links to all of the books and comics that she mentions in this episode; there are many.

And if you want to suggest a guest or recommend a book or just tell us something, I love hearing from you. Our podcast email is [email protected] or, if you like, Sarah with an H, S-A-R-A-H, at smartbitchestrashybooks dot com [[email protected]]; they end up in the same place. You can also find me on Twitter @SmartBitches, and Amanda is @_ImAnAdult. Which is also a cross stitch pattern which I made for her, ‘cause it’s an awesome cross stitch pattern, and it’s a great phrase!

But now, without any further delay, on with the podcast! Let’s hear all about BEA and BookCon.

[music]

Sarah: So you went to BEA.

Amanda: [Laughs] I did! I did go to BEA.

Sarah: And then to BookCon.

Amanda: Yes, I did!

Sarah: Are you sick in any way? Did you get con crud?

Amanda: No, I just, this is just allergies. [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay, so that’s a win, actually, because BEA can kill you. I don’t know if you know this, but I have a theory that the Javits Center is actually a direct portal to hell. That is why there’s no subway near it.

Amanda: I believe that.

Sarah: That’s why there’s not a whole lot of decent food either, and it might be the worst place on earth.

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah. I mean, my body is not in great shape. My body is very tired. By the, like, last day, it’s like, please, please no more. No more walking.

Sarah: [Laughs] On concrete, by the way, because everything in there is concrete.

Amanda: Yeah, there are some booths that put down a nice, plush carpet, but for the most part, it’s, it is concrete.

Sarah: So let’s back up, let’s back up and explain what is BEA. What is, if somebody says to you, oh my God, you’re going to BEA; what’s that? What do you tell them? Other than, I’m going to hell? Because that’s the Javits Center.

Amanda: [Laughs] So, there is a distinct difference between BEA and BookCon –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – for those who aren’t aware. BEA stands for BookExpo America, and I believe – don’t, I mean, don’t quote me, but I believe it’s the largest North American publishing conference. The largest one in the world is in Frankfurt, Germany, and that’s the Frankfurt Book Fair.

Sarah: And this is basically a professional convention of publishers showing what they have coming in the next year.

Amanda: Yeah! So publishers will set up booths; publishers of all sizes will set up booths. They will meet with booksellers and media people to showcase what they have coming up, to, you know, see if anyone’s interested in covering their books or carrying them in their stores, and there are panels going on, but it is definitely more industry-focused. There, you know, NetGalley was there talking about new technology and, you know, that sort of stuff. So it is more industry-based, I would say. It lasts Wednesday to Friday, so it’s three days instead of BookCon’s two days, and there are a lot more exhibitors, because they’re not, like, appealing to a consumer as in a reader.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: You know, like a reader might not be interested in, like, the latest e-book technology.

Sarah: I totally would, but I’m weird.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: My biggest frustration with, with BEA is that after a while, I have to wonder who are they promoting themselves to if not for each other?

Amanda: Yeah, I can see that.

Sarah: It’s not like there’s that many bookstores left. I get the press angle, and I get the promotional coverage, and there’s a lot of technology and corporate interaction that happens. I totally get it. Okay, so then if it’s an industry con-, conference, who are you presenting to? The entire group of book buyers, which is, what, four whole people?

Amanda: Oh, there’re also librarians; I forgot librarians. They’re –

Sarah: Yeah, but librarians also have their own things, you know.

Amanda: Yeah, they have ALA, which is –

Sarah: And then they have, they have these cool names like Mid-winter.

Amanda: Oh, yeah, Mid-winter Institute.

Sarah: Right? I would go to that! I don’t even know what they do, but it sounds cool! I want a T-shirt! Anyway.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I just have a little library fangirl problem. So my biggest frustration with BEA personally is (a) it’s at the Javits, which is the worst place on earth –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and (2) I can never really figure out exactly who it’s for, and I get the sense, from the number of banners featuring white dudes, that they’re posturing at each, and nothing is going to make me irritated more than posturing of white dudes. But you’re super, super into it. Now, I hate the Javits Center because getting there from New Jersey is awful. I’ll just stop with awful –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – because I could rant for about twenty-five years. I mean, you came from Boston, and I’m willing to bet you had an easier time getting there than coming from New Jersey. But that’s an old rant –

Amanda: Well, yeah. I mean, I was on a train, and –

Sarah: Right!

Amanda: – I bunked with my roommate, who works for a publisher.

Sarah: What’s her perspective on BEA? How does she like it?

Amanda: We both feel the same way in that we like BEA. It is exhausting, ‘cause she’s running, she’s helping run the booth, so she’s fielding questions and, you know, trying to coordinate, like, the booth signings that they have.

Sarah: And the booths are mostly run by Publicity and Marketing; is that right?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And some Sales, and Sales, obviously Sales is in there too.

Amanda: Yeah. But BookCon is where it gets insane, and she’s a reader too, and she’s a big YA reader, so for her it’s a little difficult because, since she’s working at the booth, she doesn’t really get to enjoy the reader side of things, and a lot of the things that they have going on at BEA and BookCon are very skewed towards the YA genre, which is what she reads, so she’s like, man, I have to work this booth, and I can’t go to this signing, and –

Sarah: It’s a strange overlap, because most people who work in publishing are also readers –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and when you work in publishing, then the reader side has to disappear.

Amanda: Yep. Kind of –

Sarah: So she’s working a booth, and you were busy taking over the universe. What were some of the things you did?

Amanda: [Laughs] So, in terms of BEA, I had a couple meetings. I met with a publicity firm who does book publicity, and I met with Amazon Publishing to talk about their publishing, different publishing arms that they have. And the Amazon meeting was great. I felt so bad for the poor publicist that I was meeting with, because we’re in this curtained booth; it’s covered with black curtains all the way around. This wasn’t an exhibit booth; this was a private meeting room for the Amazon Publishing staff, and three – it’s all, it was all older white men in their fifties, would just wander into the booth, interrupt our meeting to kind of pitch this publicist that I’m meeting with about, like, how to get a meeting so they can talk to Amazon about this book that they’re working on. I’m like, the entitlement of these guys to just walk in and interrupt a meeting between two women to, like, pitch their dumb book.

Sarah: Oh, dude, seriously?!

Amanda: Yeah, no, it happened three times during the meeting.

Sarah: Same dudes or different dudes?

Amanda: But – different dudes.

Sarah: Oh, for the love of God!

Amanda: But at the end of the meeting, they had this lovely table of books, many that we had just talked about, and they’re like, take whatever you want! [Laughs] I was like, wonderful!

Sarah: Excellent!

Amanda: Yeah, and then the, the –

Sarah: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Whoa, whoa, whoa! Uh-uh! Uh-uh! You can’t just be like, and there was a table of books!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: What were the books that you were interested in and that you learned about? You can’t just be like, there’s books, but I’m not telling you. [Evil laugh]

Amanda: Are we keeping it to the Amazon, the special Amazon table?

Sarah: No! I want to hear – you know what, let’s talk about all the books at the end. Go ahead and go on.

Amanda: Okay, okay!

Sarah: I’m out of order, so shut, I’m going to shut up now.

Amanda: [Laughs] And then on Friday, I moderated my first panel ever. And it was great!

Sarah: Yay! [Claps]

Amanda: It went really well. You know, I just pretty much introduced everyone, kept everyone on time, which we stayed on time with eight presenters.

Sarah: Dude. Dude!

Amanda: It was, I think that was the highlight. That was, like, my greatest accomplishment! [Laughs] And then, you know, I wandered around the audience fielding audience questions, and the panel was essentially about why independent bookstores should really cultivate a romance section and reach out to the romance community.

Sarah: The devil you say.

Amanda: We spend a lot of money; we are very loyal in where we purchase and who we purchase from. So it was great, and I saw my local indie was in the audience, so that was heartening to see, and I talked to the guy who runs my local independent bookstore, and he was like, yeah, I would love to coordinate with you on –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – things. Yeah, his name’s Josh. I was like, Josh, you know I’m in your bookstore every month for an hour –

Sarah: [Laughs] Dude, seriously.

Amanda: – so heads up, and he’s like, fair enough. He’s like, but that hour you’re in my bookstore is the last hour of my week, weekend shift – [laughs] – so he’s like, I’m not altogether there. I was like, okay, fair enough.

Sarah: [Laughs] But you moderated a panel, and you kept it on time.

Amanda: Yes!

[applause sound effect]

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I have sound effects for you. Yay!

Amanda: Thank you.

Sarah: Well done! Seriously, were you, were you worried about moderating your first panel? Were you nervous?

Amanda: I was super nervous, but everyone was great; everyone was very friendly. You know, Pam Jaffee of Avon gave me some great words of wisdom beforehand, so everyone was very supportive and helpful, and I feel like it went really well! Yeah, and I would love to do it again. There was the owner of Mysterious Galaxy, who, it’s, like, a sci-fi/fantasy bookstore in Southern California?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: She’s like, we’d love to have Smart Bitches do something at the store! She’s like –

Sarah: Dude, yeah!

Amanda: – so if you’re ever in Southern California, let me know! It’s like –

Sarah: Dude.

Amanda: – never been, but this is a good excuse!

Sarah: Yeah, dude, seriously! I always have this moment of, wait, you’ve heard of us?

Amanda: Yeah, I know! [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s amazing. What? Seriously? Cool!

Amanda: And then some people haven’t, and then I’m like, what? You haven’t heard of us?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Excuse me?

Sarah: So what else did you do during the BEA part, and what books did you pick up that you were like, oh hell yes?

Amanda: The BEA part, that’s pretty much it. I wandered around, said hi to some publicists that I’ve emailed and I’ve worked with, so it’s really nice to put a face to the name. I talked with some editors that I, you know, I talked to Cat Clyne, who’s an editor at Sourcebooks, and she is Amanda Bouchet’s editor, and she’s Roni Loren’s editor, and if you follow the site, you know that I’m huge fans of both. So I asked Cat what she was working on next, and she told me the description of the third book in the Roni Loren series, The Ones Who Got Away, which is – content warning! – about survivors of a school shooting, and she told me the synopsis of the third book. I got goosebumps when she was telling me about it.

Sarah: Oh, those are the best!

Amanda: And then I’m like, when does, when does this come out, Cat? And she’s like, January! [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh my gosh, did you, like, did, did you exact promises and, and make, make very, very thinly veiled threats?

Amanda: I was like, what the hell, Cat? She’s like, don’t worry; you’ll get a copy when we have copies in! So that is kind of like the downfall, is you hear about all these amazing books, and they’re not out yet, and there’s no galleys, and you just kind of have to dream about them until they, they come out. But I love talking with book people?

Sarah: Oh, isn’t it the best?

Amanda: It is a lot of fun. I really like – I don’t know. I am an introvert in the sense that I get exhausted by these kind of events, so having a, a full week of stuff coming back, I am, like, dead on my feet right now, but while I’m there, I love meeting new people; I love talking to people. So, like, that was, like, a really cool part, just being around book people who are excited about books. Like, I went to the Image Comics booth, and they –

Sarah: Yes, you mentioned this! I want to hear what you learned.

Amanda: Yeah, I went to the Image Comics booth, and they had a big table of free first issues of the comics that they publish, and they publish things like Saga, which I love; Paper Girls, which is like a really good, like, girl gang sort of thing; they have The Wicked + The Divine, which is a really cool mythology-based comic. So I am a fan of the stuff they produce, and the guy running the booth, I didn’t get a card, I wish I did, but I was like, what are you excited about? Here’s what I like to read in terms of comics; here’s what I’ve picked up from you in the past; tell me what you’ve got. And he pretty much cracked at a personalized recommendation list, and he’s grabbing, you know, comics from the table and sneaking out stuff from the back, handing it to me, and he’s like, try this! You might like this! He, like, gave me this beautiful, it’s called Norroway? And it’s a, an advanced reader copy that I got, and book one is called The Black Bull of Norroway, and it’s by Kit and Cat Seaton, and it’s a, I would say like a YA graphic novel, and it’s based on a, a Scottish fairy tale, and this girl discovers, like, a giant, magical bull, and there’s, like, a prophecy involved, and the art’s really cute. So yeah! I had never heard anything about it. He also recommended, it’s called I Kill Giants, and the heroine is a young girl, and she is a doomsday prepper in the sense that, instead of prepping for doomsday, she’s prepping for the world to be invaded by giants. And he told me that the comic was made into a limited-release movie with Zoe Saldana, and I’m so bummed that it was limited release and I heard nothing about it, ‘cause it sounds amazing, so now I have to –

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: – hunt down the movie. [Laughs]

Sarah: Dude!

Amanda: But it’s just so cool to talk to someone and be like, what are you excited about? And here’s what I like reading; tell me what you have.

Sarah: Which is like being on the receiving end of what you and I do every day.

Amanda: Yes. Very true. So I loved getting those, that, like, personalized comic book recommendation.

Sarah: Do you think your work with the site in making recommendations and lining up people’s tastes with books, does it make it easier for you to then talk to other book people?

Amanda: Yes! And I know I feel bad, but I can also tell when someone isn’t good at giving recommendations? ‘Cause –

Sarah: Yeah, I, I can tell too. I know what you mean.

Amanda: – I had that experience. I’m not going to, I’m not going to name names.

Sarah: Well, that’s ‘cause you’re a good person and better than me.

Amanda: But I went up to a booth – what they were doing is giving personalized recommendations; that’s what the entire booth was about, and so you would go up, and they would ask you what you like to read, and they would give you an upcoming title that they had – I mean, obviously, they had limited titles to work with; they didn’t have every, you know, book under the sun – and would recommend you something based on what you like to read.

Sarah: ‘Kay.

Amanda: So I was like, I really like women-centered sci-fi and fantasy or something contemporary with witty banter; anything with romance is definitely a plus. I was given a YA epistolary title. The heroine is struggling with identifying her sexuality, and she’s, like, dealing with grief. And, like –

Sarah: Umm –

Amanda: I was like, this is not quite – [laughs] – what –

Sarah: What??

Amanda: But I got the sense that they were really trying to push two titles in particular, ‘cause I watched as multiple people came up to this booth and described what they wanted to read, and they essentially would recommend the same single book over and over and over again.

Sarah: Yeaahh, that’s a little bit of disingenuousness there.

Amanda: Yeah! So I wasn’t too excited about that. [Laughs]

Sarah: Don’t blame you.

Amanda: But I can tell when people are good at it and really know their stuff, as opposed to, I don’t know, people just really wanting to promote –

Zeb: Bark!

Amanda: Ooh! [Laughs]

Sarah: So I have work being done on the front of my house right now, because our staircase has rotted a little bit –

Amanda: Ooh.

Sarah: – and Zeb of the Barking is getting older. He’s over ten, and he doesn’t hear as well, but he can feel the vibration of the hammering and the sawing –

Amanda: [Laughs] Oh!

Sarah: – and it is making him nuts that he knows something is happening, but he can’t figure it out, so he’s basically spinning around in the hallway, barking in every direction, because that’ll just cover it. He doesn’t know what’s going on, but he’s got it covered. He’ll just bark in every direction, so –

Amanda: Maybe he’s trying to do it by, like, echoes and sound waves.

Sarah: Yeah, he’s basically echolocating whoever the hell is disturbing his nap is what’s happening here. So anyway.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So what romances did you learn about that you were like, oh hell, yes?

Amanda: [Laughs] So this is the thing –

Sarah: Uh-oh.

Amanda: BEA doesn’t have a lot in the way of romance.

Sarah: The devil you say!

Amanda: And it’s gotten better since I first went three years ago, but romance is very consumer-focused. We obviously have an issue getting romance in bookstores, so a majority of the romance stuff happened at BookCon. And with me working in romance, I felt bad, but I kind of had all the books already. [Laughs] So it’s like, I already know about this book; I already have a copy of this book. Like, I don’t read historicals, so –

Sarah: Right! Well, don’t, you know, don’t feel bad! That means that all of the publicists we work with are on it –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – which means – which we knew – which means that they are brilliant at what they do. I mean, the thing about romance publicists is when they are good, they are exemplary.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: So, like, they’re just doing their jobs better than good, which is, you know, nothing to be sad about, but it also means that you walk around a conference, and there’s not the thing that you’re actually there to focus on professionally.

Amanda: But I managed to grab the one book that I’ve been dying to get my hands on for months. This was the only book that I cared about getting, and of course, you know, I still walked away from BEA and BookCon with, like, twenty books, even though I only really cared about getting one book, but I got a copy of Stripped by Zoey Castile.

Sarah: Oooh! You must be so happy!

Amanda: Yeah, and they were doing a signing, so I have it signed as well. No shame to Fitzwilliam, but I was so angry that this cute, adorable dog got a copy of this book!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And I’m trying to move heaven and earth to get myself a copy.

Sarah: [Still laughing] I’m sorry, dude. That is, that is hard.

Amanda: I know. I was like, this is the only book I fucking care about getting, and if I do not get it, I will burn the Javits Center to the ground.

Sarah: [Laughs] Good luck with that! It’s a Hellmouth; it will fight you back.

Amanda: Yeah, no, that won’t happen. It’s probably, you know, resistant to fire and all other damaging elements.

Sarah: Yeah, pretty much. All right, so BEA, industry conference –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – cool meetings, interesting people, publicists doing their thing, getting tired.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I told you about the ideas I had for people’s booths at BEA, right? Like, I gave away all these great ideas for free?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So, for example, you know how, you ever been to an outdoor event, and they have the super high-end, somewhat nice to use porta potties?

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: You, you remember those?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Like, sometimes they’re air-conditioned; they’re not disgusting; they’re clean. Okay, so the thing about the Javits is there’s like 2.5 women’s, ladies’ rooms in the whole damn place.

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: They’re disgusting, and there’s no paper towels or toilet paper after the first, like, two hours. And there’s, like, one and a half Starbucks, and the line is nine miles long, so anyway. Those are only two of the many flaws of the Javits Hellmouth. So my idea was, okay, if you are a publisher who specializes in fiction that is particularly addictive and/or of interest to women, who are vastly underserved by the number of locations with which to relieve ourselves – because for every men’s room, you have stalls and urinals; we only have stalls, so we’re automatically at a mathematical deficit for our own comfort and security – so what these publishers need to do: you know, screw a bookshelf, you don’t need a banner, uh-uh. You’re going to get yourself a couple of those high-end porta potties –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – maybe three, right? Get yourself a very plush carpet, and then send out a secret password. If someone has the secret password, then they can use your bathroom, and once they have washed their hands and they come out, they can choose from a selection of shrink-wrapped books to take with them, but only if they have the password, and that will be the most popular booth in the whole –

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: – entire place, the one with the nice ladies’ rooms. But no one’s like, oh, how do we get ‘em, how do we get them cleaned? Okay, so in the middle of the night, you have the, the, the shit sucker come through the Javits Center and, you know, if it happens to knock over a couple of these entitled white guys who pitched their books in the middle of your meeting? Oh well, too bad! [Laughs]

Amanda: Well, I, I was standing in line for the bathrooms several times, and I had women be like, screw it, I’m just going to go in the men’s room. Like, who is going to stop me? [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh yeah, I’ve stormed the men’s room a couple times.

Amanda: So it does happen.

Sarah: So then there was BookCon.

Amanda: Which is a shit show. I’m sorry –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – BookCon is a waking nightmare.

Sarah: Oh boy. So this is the one that’s open to readers, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And it’s Saturday and Sunday.

Amanda: Yes. Now –

Sarah: It is a separate ticket than BEA; is that right?

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: All right, tell me all about it.

Amanda: [Big disgusted sigh] So –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – we’re going to do a little compare and contrast.

Sarah: BookCon – [big disgusted sigh]. Can I just use that as a sound bite?

[Laughter]

Amanda: Sure! You can keep it, use it for future podcasts, whatever you –

Sarah: [Big disgusted sigh, laughs] All right, compare and contrast.

Amanda: So last year – not this year, but the previous year – BEA attendance, I believe, was around eight thousand. BookCon attendance was around twenty thousand. So already, BookCon has a higher level attendance at –

Sarah: Holy crap!

Amanda: – yeah – at about two and a half times. A majority of the exhibitors at BEA pack up and get the hell out of Dodge, and usually the ones that stick around are, like, the big five publishers, maybe some smaller publishers. And then they’ll bring in, like, exhibitors that have, like, you know, bookish clothing or bookish candles, but the number of exhibitors has, definitely goes down, and so, like, things are a little bit more squished together. And it’s not as organized. The BEA app that you can download on your phone lets you search different panels and signings, and you could add them to a calendar on the app. The BookCon app has none of those functions. In order to find out when a signing is happening or people are giving away copies of a book, you pretty much have to stalk your favorite publisher or author on social media.

Sarah: Oh, that’s exhausting, and the reception there is already so bad! Like, what is the point?

Amanda: Yeah, and then –

Sarah: Also, I just want you to know that Orville has jumped on the desk and unmuted me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: He was, not only was he ang- – did I just hear Linus?

Amanda: No!

Sarah: Oh.

Amanda: Linus is snoozing.

Sarah: Okay, so not only did he jump up on the desk and join the podcast, but he successfully unmuted my microphone so he, you could hear him thunking on –

Amanda: That’s what – I was wondering what that noise was.

Sarah: That was Orville’s butt. I beg your pardon; he needed to be here. So anyway.

Amanda: Oh, that’s fine. So in order to –

Sarah: Stalk them on social media?

Amanda: Yeah, to be like, oh, we’re going to be giving away these galleys or these copies of this book at 10 a.m., and you just better hope you get there an hour before they do something, or else there’s no way you’ll get anything.

Sarah: And the lines are that long.

Amanda: Oh yeah, the lines are super long.

Sarah: So you get in a line and there’s a really good chance that whatever is happening will be done or they will have run out.

Amanda: So they were doing a, like, it opened at ten for BEA, or for BookCon at the, show floor opens at ten, and there was a publisher giving away galleys of two different books right when they open. I got there at 10:05. It, everything was gone. It was –

Sarah: Oh.

Amanda: – picked clean. There wasn’t, there weren’t any people milling about with copies of the books. They –

Sarah: In ten minutes.

Amanda: Five minutes!

Sarah: Holy cow. So it’s like locusts with books.

Amanda: Oh yeah. People will just swarm a booth, or if there’s a signing that they know about, they will just get in line, and they will sit down, because they will be in that line for the next forty minutes until, you know, the signing kicks off. So expect a lot of waiting, a lot of crowds, and I feel like there were more books being given away at BookExpo than BookCon.

Sarah: Really!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Well, you know, that kind of makes sense, because the target for Book-, for BookExpo, for BEA, is people who ostensibly are in, in some way involved in acquisition, purchase, or promotion of a book. Like, that’s a specific return on investment.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: BookCon, it might be hard to really justify the return on investment, because I – galleys are such a weird thing; ARCs are such a strange piece of currency, because they have value up to a specific date, and they are hella expensive to produce, so they have an automatic scarcity.

Amanda: And if romance readers are looking to BookCon as a way of filling some RT void, it’s not going to happen.

Sarah: No, it’s not a good replacement; that is not a good replacement. Oh no.

Amanda: No, and this is not meant as a complaint, but a bulk of the authors signing and on panels and books being given away, I would say eighty-five percent of those books are Young Adult books.

Sarah: Right. So the main audience for BookCon seems to be YA.

Amanda: YA readers, yes.

Sarah: YA readers and reviewers.

Amanda: And I’m not a huge YA reader. There’s some stuff that I’ll read and I’ll enjoy, but, like, that’s not typically the genre that I read most often.

Sarah: For romance readers, this is not a good thing.

Amanda: No. They did have a few romance stuff, but a bulk of everything was definitely YA-focused. I did discover some really cool vendors, I guess, at BookCon? There’s this one, they do, like, geeky, like, nerdy girl clothing. I think it’s called, like, Jordandené? And they’re Brooklyn-based, and they –

Sarah: You’ll give me a link, right?

Amanda: Yes, I will give you a link. And I bought this shirt; it is one of the most comfortable T-shirts I have ever worn –

Sarah: Ooh.

Amanda: – and it says “Space Witch” on it. [Laughs] And I was just totally, I wore it the last day. It’s so comfortable. Yeah, I was – they also produce a, like, a ‘zine; it’s called The Sartorial Geek, so it’s all about geek culture –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – and fashion stuff. And what I liked about Sunday is that no one wants to cart their boxes of books home.

Sarah: Oh no, no one wants to have to lug that back to the office and find a place for it.

Amanda: So they’re just, like, begging you, begging you to take stuff.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I picked up this series that I heard so much about – I’m trying to find the author and name – but it’s published by Soho Press, and I went up to the booth, and they were doing, like, five-dollar paperbacks and ten-dollar hardcovers, pretty much, and, like –

Sarah: Well, that’ll do!

Amanda: Yeah, and other books are, like, or other publishers were doing, like, buy one, get one, and that sort of thing.

Sarah: So at the end, they sell what’s left, and you can get some good –

Amanda: Yeah, you get some really good deals. So I bought Morte and D’Arc, I think is what it’s called, called Rob, by Robert Repino, and if I have to, like, describe it, it’s like someone’s cat, someone’s house pet, becomes, like, a, a war hero during the apocalypse. [Laughs] So when I went, I wanted to buy the first book, and someone at the booth was like, you know, if you buy the second book, you get the novella for free.

Sarah: Ohhh.

Amanda: I was like, fine, and then –

Sarah: [Laughs] Fine!

Amanda: – and then, because I bought the series, I’m entered for a chance to put Linus on a poster?

Sarah: What?

Amanda: Like, commemorating the series? And I think the author was there at the booth, and so I pretty much campaigned for Linus to the author about why Linus should be on this poster.

[Laughter]

Amanda: ‘Cause he’s like, do you have a pet? And I was like, yeah, I have a pet. And he’s like, well, you could enter for a chance to win to put him on a poster. I was like, do you want to see my pet? And Linus is now my phone’s background, or my lock screen. So, like, this is Linus. He’s ten years old; I adopted him after his previous owner died. Like – [laughs] – I really, like, made it into a nice sob story with a happy ending.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I’d love to see Linus on this poster. So if you’re looking for really good book deals, all of the major booths do it, HarperCollins and Macmillan.

Sarah: So if you go to BookCon on Sunday, you can pick up –

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: – books at a great price.

Amanda: You’ll have buy one, get one, or, like, things’ll be, like, twenty percent to fifty percent off. Yeah. It’s pretty good. But I feel like not a lot of people were buying books; they were hoping to get, like, free books, so the selection is pretty amazing.

Sarah: So that was, that at least ended on an upside.

Amanda: Yeah, and then I think one booth, Sarah MacLean, Wicked and the Wallflower is coming out in two weeks? If you went, you could buy it two weeks early –

Sarah: Cool!

Amanda: – so you could start reading it before anyone else.

Sarah: That’s a handy booth!

Amanda: Yeah! So, yeah, but BookCon, I don’t know if I would ever do that again, I’ll be honest.

Sarah: It sounds like it was just a lot of crowds and disorganization and frustration, compounded on, on the hour.

Amanda: Yeah, pretty much!

Sarah: And it wasn’t worth it for you as a reader, as a romance professional, or as a blogger, even.

Amanda: No! I, I know there are a lot of bloggers there at BookCon. Some were, like, trying to get signed copies to do giveaways and stuff like that.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. But wouldn’t it seem like it would be easier to organize that outside of a massive convention center, you know?

Amanda: It may be; I don’t know, but for me, I didn’t really see much of a benefit in going. Like, the, the book deals were pretty nice, but I could do without spending that money. [Laughs]

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: But BEA, I felt very productive. I, yeah, I went three years ago, and I definitely have a more positive experience three years later.

Sarah: But you, it also sounds like you went in with a, a, a route or, or at least a schedule; like, I’m going to meet –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – with these people, and I’m going to meet with these people, so you had a plan to your day, as opposed to, let me wander through every booth and figure out where the hell I am and what I’m looking for.

Amanda: Yeah, that’s pretty much it. I mean, that’s, BookCon is pretty much how you described it, as you are just doing loop after loop after loop, getting in a line, waiting for an hour, doing another loop, yeah.

Sarah: Getting in another line.

Amanda: Milling around, because you know this publisher is going to do, like, a book drop at a certain time. Yeah, my roommate and I –

Sarah: I –

Amanda: – were walking through a booth when they did a book drop, and we, like, had to get out of there, because we were, we would have got, like, crushed in that, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – crowd to get, like, these books.

Sarah: Oh man.

Amanda: And, like, people, even not just books, people would wait in line for an hour just to, like, spin a prize wheel to get, like, a free tote bag or a button or, you know, something smaller, like, I don’t know. I don’t have the patience for that. I don’t like crowds, and I feel like I’m a pretty subdued person in general –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and by day four it’s like, I have no energy to be excited about anything happening around me, right now.

[Laughter]

Amanda: I was talking to a publicist, and we were talking about, like, it was the last day, I was at the last event I needed to do before I could free myself from the Javits, and –

Sarah: Free myself from the Hellmouth! You do, it is a Hellmouth.

Amanda: – and we were just talking –

Sarah: It’ll kill you.

Amanda: – and all of a sudden, our conversation just kind of stops mid-sentence, and our eyes just kind of, like, glaze over –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and she looks at me; she’s like, oh, sorry. I was like, no, it’s fine. [Laughs] Like, it just wears you out, which is why I’m getting a massage on Friday.

Sarah: Very smart.

Amanda: My body does not feel like my own at the moment.

Sarah: Yeah, I understand that. It is really hard! It is a really hard thing to do for that many days.

Amanda: Yeah, it is; it’s rough. So I have mixed feelings. I really don’t know if I would go to BookCon again unless there was something I truly felt like I couldn’t miss.

Sarah: I am really curious about the return on investment of time and resources for publishers who participate in BookCon. Like, how do they measure the success or value of participating in it, and how do they, like, what is the process of, of quantifying what to do and how much to spend and what to provide? Like, how do you measure that return on investment? It’s not like it’s a, a one-to-one, and I, I know many a publicist has said during the Book Blogger conference at RT, we never expect a one-to-one return –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – on every ARC we give out; that’s ridiculous. But I’m wondering, how do you, how do you quantify the value of doing a book drop, having what you would say, several hundred people storm your booth for ten minutes, and then they’re gone?

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t think there really is anything. I mean, I feel like if you want a return on investment, and I’m obviously not an expert here, I’m more likely to talk about books that I’ve gotten at BEA, because I am able to talk to people. Like, I was in line for a book drop at BEA, and it’s a little less crowded and, you know, bananas, and there was only one book that I wanted out of the four books that I could take, and the one –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – the one book is called Melmith or Melmoth? It’s like magical realism with some Gothic elements and some, like, monster hunting, but I’m very excited about it, but one of the other books in the stack is called Vita Nostra, and it’s a translated work. It was originally written in Russian by Maryna and Sergiy Dyachenko. The publicist, or one of the publicists working the booth, was like, here, try Vita Nostra. I was like, what is it about? And she described it as a Russian work of translation that has magical realism and a boarding school –

Sarah: What? Hmm!

Amanda: – and I was like, yes, please, but I feel like you don’t get that experience at BookCon. You don’t really have a moment to talk to people, and because BookCon isn’t really industry-based, I got the sense that, like, most people didn’t want to talk to me either? Because that’s not what BookCon is about. BookCon isn’t really about finding new books; it’s about, you know, meeting authors that you’re fans of and getting books signed and stuff like that, whereas BEA is about learning, you know, about the upcoming lists that publishers are working on, and I enjoy that aspect much better. I would love to talk to a person about why I should pick up this book or give me a succinct, one-sentence description about a  book that makes me want to, you know, grab it from a stack. Like, I was just going to leave that book there, and it was free! I didn’t need it! But then she told me that, like, quick little description, and I snatched it up so quickly, and that’s what I love about, you know, being around book people is, I don’t know, feeling that instant –

Sarah: We speak a language.

Amanda: Yes! Having someone describe a book using, like, “magical realism” and “Russian translation” and feeling your eyes light up and knowing that you just need to get your hands on this book that you hadn’t known about five minutes earlier. Yeah, I was very pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed BEA? BookCon, I was very pleasantly surprised at how much I hated BookCon. [Laughs] So it was interesting, comparing the two, ‘cause when I went to BEA three years ago, I didn’t go to BookCon. It was just starting, too, I believe.

Sarah: It seems to me, though, that if you want to go to someplace where you’re going to learn about books, for romance fans the ideal venue has not entirely been formed.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: ‘Cause RT is done, and I’m not sure the last RT was really a good place to go and learn about books, because that’s not what that was about; that’s a fan convention. And RWA is an industry convention. I get a lot of email from people asking, I’m a reader, and I really love romance, but I notice that RWA has signings; should I go to RWA? Well, yes, RWA has publisher signings, but it is an industry conference meant for people who are considering writing romance as a second or primary career. It is a, very much an industry- and career-focused –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – venue. And there are publisher signings, and if you go to a publisher signing, those are books that you don’t have to pay for, and at the end is the literacy signing where you do pay for books, but all the money is donated to local literacy charities, so I can see the confusion –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I totally understand it. In a way that’s a good place to learn about books, but when publishers do a spotlight or take pitches, they are talking about what they’re looking for, not necessarily what they’re –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – publishing, or what’s going to be coming out, and it seems like, with RT closing and the loss of that one location where all of the new publisher information could be found in an easy-to-read and, and recognizable format, that there is a, a, a vacuum for people to find out what is coming out in romance, because it’s not necessarily going to be a big part of BEA, because it’s not that much of a money or publicity lead for them.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: You know what I mean?

Amanda: I don’t know. It’s –

Sarah: Are you glad you went?

Amanda: Yes. I am glad I went. The books that I picked up at BEA I feel like I’m more excited about than the books that I brought home from RT.

Sarah: What do you think creates that excitement? Is it the personal recommendation and the source of that book?

Amanda: Yes, I think so, ‘cause a lot of RT, you know, like, the registration bag is a crapshoot. You really don’t know what you’re going to get in it, and, you know, this year, they had an assortment. Like, not every book, or not every bag was the same. With BEA, there’s a little bit more power, and you get to choose what books you pick up, or what books you find, and there’s a lot, like I said, lot more face time with the people who work on these books, because it’s not necessarily reader-focused. You know, there’s not time to, like, meet the author and have them sign your book, though those –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – those signings do happen. We get the opportunity to do blogger parties at RT, and I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a blogger party, like BEA, but we do get a chance to hear more about books coming out, which I like. Like, I used to be a publicist, and I really enjoyed talking to people about why they should read a certain book. And it’s something that we do on the site every day, so it is nice to have someone tell me why I should read this book or listen to what I’m, what I want to read and be like, oh, I have just the thing for you.

Sarah: So there is still value for you in face-to-face conversations and in-person meetings with people who speak that same language on a very high level of fluency.

Amanda: Yes, I love it. That’s probably the best part of BEA for me is talking to people about their books and why they love them and why I should love them. That face time was just so much fun, and I think next year –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – if I go again, like, I would love to do more of that. I would love to have more meetings. I know it sounds –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – silly, like, I want to have more meetings! But I do! I just kind of liked talking to people about books! So, yeah, but BookCon, I don’t know. I’m interested in people who have a different opinion of like, I love BookCon, and here is why. Because I can just find no redeeming factors for BookCon for me, unfortunately.

Sarah: So last question, as always.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Is there anything you’re reading right now that you want to talk about? And there’s okay if not, because if your brain is dead, you might not want to be reading anything.

Amanda: I just have a really bad book hangover –

Sarah: From what?

Amanda: – from The Kiss Quotient.

Sarah: [Gasps] Tell me about The Kiss Quotient and why it gave you a book hangover.

Amanda: It’s so good! It’s so good. [Sobs] It will just make you smile, and I just love it. It’s, I think it might be the best book I’ve read this year. I, ooh, it just, I’m having, like, word constipation here.

Sarah: Well, no, it’s just a whole long sequence of Good Book Noise. That translates admirably. Can you tell me, like –

Amanda: It’s just –

Sarah: – one or two things that were absolutely wonderful about it? Like, scenes that you really liked?

Amanda: So the heroine has Asperger’s, and for part of the book the hero doesn’t know. She just thinks that she’s, like, particular or peculiar in how she goes about things, and he doesn’t even, like, question it. He’s just so patient with her, doesn’t try to push her, doesn’t seek any sort of rationalization or, like, why do you do the things you do? Why are you this way? I just think the patience that he shows with her is so sweet. He’s an escort, so at the same time, because Stella – I wouldn’t, she’s not, I wouldn’t say she’s, like, sexually uncomfortable, but she hasn’t really had a good sexual experience. But she just treats him like any regular person, and he’s so used to being treated as, like, a com-, like a product by his clients, he appreciates being seen as, like, a normal person. Like, their interactions, it’s not as if their conversations or the way they interact, there’s that undercurrent of Michael, the hero, being reminded, oh, I’m just a hired escort. Like, we’re just exchanging services. So it’s just really sweet –

Sarah: Aw!

Amanda: – on both sides. It is adorable. I am working on a review that’s just more than one sentence of, buy this book and just read it, okay?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Just read it.

Sarah: Okay, that works. I think that’s a perfectly fine review.

Amanda: [Laughs] But it’s just so good, and I think, like, I will follow this author to the ends of the earth with whatever she writes from now on. It’s just that good. It is just that good.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you to Amanda for hanging out with me when being so tired from BEA and BookCon to talk about her experiences. And like she said, if you really enjoyed BookCon, it was a total win for you, we would really love to hear what you liked, so please email me at [email protected] or Sarah with an H at smartbitchestrashybooks dot com [[email protected]].

This episode was brought to you by Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane. Beau Petty has been searching his whole life, searching for a place that fills all the empty spaces in him, searching for a way to tame the restlessness, searching for answers to the secret he’s never stopped trying to solve. What he was not searching for was a woman to claim all of him, but when Cora Silvera walks back into his life, he’s ready to search out all the ways that he can make her his. Cora has spent her life as the family nurturer, taking care of others, but now she’s ready to pass that job on to someone else, make some changes, and live for herself. And it is in that moment that her former teenage crush reappears, and the draw and the heat of their instant connection is like nothing either of them has experienced. He craves being around her. She accepts him, dark corners and all. But Beau thinks that Cora has had enough of drama in her life, and he wants to protect her from the secrets of his past, even if it means holding back the last pieces of himself. But Cora is no pushover; she means to claim all of those pieces, because sometimes what you find isn’t what you were searching for. Whiskey Sharp: Torn by Lauren Dane is on sale June 26th and available for preorder wherever books are sold.

This week’s episode transcript is brought to you by everyone who has supported the podcast Patreon. Thank you, folks! The Patreon helps me make sure that every episode receives a transcript, including those that are deep in the archives from almost ten years ago, and that makes the show more accessible to folks who can’t or don’t wish to listen, and it ensures that everyone is included, so thank you for that. If you would like to sponsor an episode or sponsor a transcript, email me at Sarah, S-A-R-A-H, at smartbitchestrashybooks dot com [[email protected]].

The Patreon can be found at patreon.com/SmartBitches. I have so many interviews scheduled in the next few weeks, and I often ask the community for question ideas, so if you’re interested in joining or supporting the show, one dollar a month makes a deeply appreciated difference.

I also want to thank some of the Patreon folks personally, so to Kate, Abby, Emily, Mags, Melanie, and Hannah, thank you for being part of the community.

If the Patreon isn’t for you, are there ways to support the show? Absolutely. Sing along if you know the words: leave a review wherever and however you listen, tell a friend, subscribe, whatever works. If you are hanging out with me and I am in your eardrums right now, thank you very, very much for the privilege of being part of your day!

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is The Shadow Orchestra. This track is called “Sweet as a Nut” from their EP Remaker. You can find it on Amazon or on iTunes, and you can find The Shadow Orchestra on MySpace, and nothing makes me happier than talking about MySpace when I talk about the music in the show. I get to talk about MySpace! It’s amazing!

What if we all just went back to MySpace? [Laughs] Like, I really don’t like Facebook right now. What if we all just went back to MySpace? That would be hilarious! Where’d everybody go? They’re on MySpace! Ooh, or Friendster; we could go back to that. I don’t even know if it still exists! [Laughs] All right, I’m entirely too self-amused.

This week on the site – there’s a website that goes with the podcast. I’m assuming you knew that. This week on Smart Bitches, you will find Kickass Women in History and a review from Carrie of a nonfiction history of two women who did extraordinary things in opposite directions. We’re also hosting some reviews, including an F review, which I know you guys like a lot. We have Cover Snark, a Bachelorette recap from Elyse, and a review of a brand-new book that’s coming out this week. I hope that you will stop by and hang out with us.

And now it’s time for a terrible joke, because that’s how I end every episode, and, y’all, it gives me so much joy. Okay – [clears throat] – must be professional.

What do you call it when you put your grandmother’s phone number on your speed dial?

What do you call it when you put your grandmother’s phone number on your speed dial?

Insta-Gram.

[Laughs] I can hear you groaning! I can hear the sound of people groaning in the future. What a terrible psychic ability. [Laughs more] So thank you to glyph on Reddit for that absolutely horrific joke. I also love when you send me jokes, so if you have suggestions, email me at Smart Bitches or sbjpodcast at Gmail, or just tweet at me and say, I have a joke! And then I will, I will tell you how to send it to me, because I love them.

As always, I have links to everything we talked about, as well as the books that we mentioned in this episode, at the podcast entry, smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

But that is all for this week’s episode. Thank you again for hanging out with me. On behalf of Amanda and myself, we wish you the very best of reading this weekend. I hope you have a great book to spend time with, and we will see you back here next week.

[nutty music]