698. Holiday Wishes VI with Jenna Grinstead, Stephanie Violet, Lisa, and Bull

[intro]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 698 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and once again my guests are – y’all. Today we’re talking to Jenna, Stephanie, Lisa, and Bull – yep! We are visiting Norway this week – and as always we have book recs, including a book from the 1500s, wishes, and terrible jokes. And I have some visual aids to go with this episode, so make sure to take a peek at the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 698. I promise beautiful visual aids: worth your time.

I have a compliment this week!

To Emily Crone: Migratory flight patterns of birds, when overlaid across several species, spell out some remarkable avian commentary about you: you’re stylish, fun, and clever, and even the birds have noticed how much you are loved by the people who are important to you. Also, they like your hat.

If you would like a compliment of your very own and you’d like to support the show, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Our Patreon support means that we do not have dynamic ads before or after the show because of community support. I was able to turn off all of the dynamic ads – which are the ones you hear immediately before or after an episode? – to avoid ads for ICE and other right-wing propaganda. So instead of Patreon offering an ad-free episode, the Patreon community made sure that every episode will be free of dynamic ads for every listener. Thank you, y’all.

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And as always, thank you for listening! I’m really happy you’re here.

Support for this episode comes from Skims, who have new pajamas, and I’m living in them right now. As I’ve mentioned, most of my pajamas were old shirts and lightweight bottoms that I didn’t know how old they are or where they came from because I really didn’t put a lot of thought in my pajamas? And then I received a Soft Lounge Sleep Set from Skims, and I thought, Oh! Well, hang on a moment! They are so great. I am still mad how great they are. I’m not taking them off, but I’m still mad about it. The fabric is so great; it is warm enough to be cozy, but not super thick so I’m too hot all of the time. And you know how some pajamas are so light, like a wind goes through them? Not with these. They are just the right level of cozy. And they’re really well made. I have a deep green color that I just love. I feel like I’m so stylish, even when my hair is going in every other direction and I haven’t caffeinated yet? I look great, trust me. The Soft Lounge Sleep Set is just simply fabulous, and I’m living in it, and I invite you to live in a Skims Soft Lounge Set too. Trust me, it’s a good idea. You can shop my favorite pajamas as skims.com, and after you place your order, please be sure to let them know we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. And if you are looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims holiday shop is open at skims.com.

All right, are you ready? We’re going to travel to Norway, all over the US, talk about books – I’m in; let’s go. On with the podcast.

[music]

Jenna Grinstead: Hi, I’m Jenna Grinstead. I’m in Columbus, Ohio, and I’m a, a writer and a reader, and I’m currently in the Antioch MFA program.

Sarah: Hey, congratulations!

Jenna: Thank you.

Sarah: How are you liking the MFA program?

Jenna: I love it.

Sarah: Yes!

Jenna: It’s, yeah! Just finished my first semester, and incredible, like, mentorship that you get, and it’s, I, it’s easy to integrate into your life. Like, it’s not easy, it’s hard work, but it’s, it’s reading and writing, so, you know, if you love that, then it works really well. [Laughs]

Sarah: And I imagine being in a program and obviously, you know, paying tuition and everything, makes that reading and writing time so much more essential on your calendar. Like, you can’t talk yourself out of it. You’ve got to do it. It’s very important. And then at the end you’ve, you’ve rid, read and written, which always makes me feel good, so total win!

Jenna: Yeah! I was like, This is exciting! Like, I am required to read these books that I, you know, helped to choose. Oh bummer! I was going to read them anyway. So that’s been really fun, and getting to sort of read like a writer and annotate, you know, a book in a – it’s just a different way of thinking; it’s been really fun.

Sarah: Can I ask if you remember what sort of, what books you contributed to the syllabus?

Jenna: Yeah! So I got to read Vampires of El Norte this semester?

Sarah: [Laughs] For school! Oh, how great!

Jenna: Yeah. So, like, I got to read Vampires of El Norte by Isabel Cañas for school and then, like, pick apart, in my own mind, like, how does she use monsters, both real and, like, figuratively –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Jenna: – through the, through the story? And, you know, if you’ve read that book, which it seems like maybe you have, I mean, she’s incredibly talented, so. I love the genre mishmash in that book, and, you know, I’m a romance reader and I don’t usually read horror, but it was like the perfect combination of, like, historical horror and romance. [Laughs]

Sarah: This is what people have said to me, and I completely agree: if you like romance but horror gives you the jibblies, this is the right amount.

Jenna: Yes.

Sarah: Like, it’s important to the story, but it’s not trying to give you nightmares and scare the poodle out of you.

Jenna: That is a hundred percent dead-on.

Sarah: What books rocked your world this year?

Jenna: So one was actually written by my MFA mentor. It just came out; it’s called Fall of the Fireflies by Guadalupe Garcia McCall?

Sarah: Oooh!

Jenna: And it is fantastic. It’s the companion to one called Summer of the Mariposas? And Summer of the Mariposas basically The Odyssey written with girls living on the Mexican border in present times with, like, Mexican monsters, and Guadalupe wrote it because she was teaching The Odyssey and the girls in her class kept saying, like, you know, Why do we have to study these men? All the women do is knit. And she was like, We need a version of this story that’s for the girls that I teach. And so Fall of the Fireflies is based on Antigone, and it’s just sort of in the same vein, but it’s these twin girls and they have this, like, twin tour that they launch with their father’s band, and there’s a supernatural attack on their father. It’s also got susto in it, which is sort of something that you see in Vampires of El Norte, but it’s just two different takes on it? So yeah, I really, really enjoyed that, that, that series of books this year.

Sarah: That’s cool! I had not heard of these. Thank you for introducing me to these books! This is the best part of doing these episodes, I swear.

Jenna: And then I read Honey Girl by Lisa Freeman, which is a historical YA queer romance-ish – kind of historical more than, but there’s romance in it – that’s set in the 1970s in California beach culture.

Sarah: Ohhh, that sounds –

Jenna: So –

Sarah: – cool!

Jenna: Yeah. Lisa Freeman’s father, I think, was involved in, like, creating Hawaii Five-0? If you remember that, like, old show?

Sarah: I sure do!

Jenna: A ton of time in Hawaii, and it’s just this girl who’s like half-Hawaiian. Her mother’s not Hawaiian, her father has died, and her mother has moved them to California, and she has to, like, make it on a new beach?

Sarah: Yep!

Jenna: And her, sort of, all of these sort of ties sort of set in the ‘70s and, you know, what it was to be like a, a queer girl in the ‘70s, as she’s kind of like realizing that about herself, and it was incredible. I really, really –

Sarah: That’s awesome! What a good rec!

Jenna: Yeah, love that one.

And then The Hexorcism of Cassie Kovar by Kelly Garcia? A little bit more of a light sort of a divorced mom witch kind of storyline?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Jenna: Super fun. And then the last one that I had was Mate by Ali Hazelwood, which –

Sarah: Ohhh, cool!

Jenna: – is, probably a lot of people are talking about. I loved Bride, and I thought Mate was like the perfect companion; like, the snarky voice and the, you know, just the supernatural love – this felt like the old-school sort of paranormals like the Jeaniene Frost kind of books –

Sarah: Yes.

Jenna: – that I, like, loved and am always hungry for more, you know?

Sarah: Mm-hmm. They were definitely written with paranormal romance from about fifteen, twenty years ago in mind. Like, you can tell some of the beats and some of the characters, like, Oh, okay! I haven’t read about, you know, a character like this in a while, but I know this character.

Jenna: Yeah, yeah, and I’m huge, like, Jeaniene Frost fan. Her Cat, her Cat and Bones series…

Sarah: Yes!

Jenna: I go back and reread that because there’s not, there’s not a lot, like, of new stuff like that, so I was just really excited when this series, Bride and Mate, came out.

Sarah: Yes. And the Jeaniene Frost series, I remember reading that and going, Ohhh! Okay, I’m so in. Right? Like, when someone does something, not necessarily new, but innovative? It’s incredible, right?

Jenna: Yeah! And those books were interesting, ‘cause it was one couple, but it was like, you know –

Sarah: Lots of stuff going on, yeah.

Jenna: – urban fantasy! There was the mystery, and there – I mean, it just, there was so much to keep you coming back?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Jenna: It’s just, you know, vampires and romance.

Sarah: And she really did a good development of the relationship so that you aren’t like, Okay, just, like, kiss already! There were always stakes, and they were always, like, dealing with each other through several – that series is incredible.

Jenna: And she lets them be a good couple together for, like, lots of books, but you don’t feel, like, it doesn’t feel tired.

Sarah: No! It’s like, Ooh!

Jenna: …all the other plotlines.

Sarah: It’s visiting!

Jenna: Yeah.

Sarah: Totally. Thank you! These are amazing recommendations! I appreciate it!

Jenna: Thanks for the opportunity!

Sarah: Okay, what are your wishes for everyone for 2026?

Jenna: I hope in 2026 we just all get to be who we are and feel safe and supported.

Sarah: Yes. That’s a tall order right now, and it shouldn’t be a tall order right now.

Jenna: It feels like it should be a very noncontroversial statement.

Sarah: Right?

Jenna: It just doesn’t feel that way all the time now, so that’s, that’s my wish: everybody gets to feel safe and supported.

Sarah: Exactly as they are.

Jenna: Exactly as they are.

Sarah: Yeah, yeah. That’s both radical and obvious!

Jenna: [Laughs]

Sarah: Which is weird. But true.

Jenna: Yeah! I didn’t expect lately that intersection has become.

Sarah: Nope! You’re so right.

So did you bring a terrible joke?

Jenna: I did.

Sarah: Yay!

Jenna: Okay, what can you catch in winter, even with your eyes closed?

Sarah: What can you catch in winter, even with your eyes closed? What?

Jenna: A cold.

Sarah: [Laughs] Isn’t that the truth? I just got my voice back after, like, losing it. Wait’ll you hear some of these Holiday Wishes episodes that I recorded with laryngitis; they’re, they’re quite an experience. Yeah, a cold, I will get that. Get that cold every time.

Jenna: With that husky voice, it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like a fun alter ego.

Sarah: Yes! Yeah, it’s like Kathleen Turner and Barry White had a baby, and it’s me. [Laughs]

Thank you so much, and thank you for all of these recs and doing a Holiday Wishes interview!

Jenna: Thank you!

[music]

Stephanie Violet: My name is Stephanie Violet, and I am from Vancouver, BC.

Sarah: Well, hello!

Stephanie: Hi!

Sarah: Howdy, neighbor!

Stephanie: …is pouring rain, so we call it actually, technically, Rain-couver.

Sarah: Rain-couver!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yes, but the upside of Vancouver is that it is appallingly beautiful.

Stephanie: Oh, absolutely appallingly beautiful! I –

Sarah: It’s just offensive –

Stephanie: – love it here, and –

Sarah: – it’s offensive.

Stephanie: – it’, it’s truly offensive, yeah. I drive to work, and then as the sun peeks over the mountains, I take a photo, and I’ve been taking photos of basically the sun rising over mountains for like a month now. It’s gorgeous.

Sarah: See, that’s fantastic!

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: I once did a conference; I was invited to a conference in Vancouver, technically in Surrey –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – and I went down to –

Stephanie: Was it a Surrey Writers’ Conference?

Sarah: Yes! Surrey International Writers’ Conference.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: One of the best conferences in the world.

Stephanie: Yes, it is; it’s amazing.

Sarah: And I, while I was there I went downtown and I did one of those little helicopter tours, but the tour I did was actually, they were delivering and picking up the mail? So I flew up the coast, and I landed in all these little, like, docks where they, you know, where you park your plane, as you do –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – and…drop off, drop off the mail, pick up the mail, and so I basically did the mail run? And I was –

Stephanie: That’s amazing.

Sarah: – hang-, I was almost hanging out the window of this plane. Like, I was on the window with, like, I could not believe what my eyeballs were seeing. Like –

Stephanie: Yeah, it’s so pretty!

Sarah: – this is the same planet as the one that I live on? What is this?!

Stephanie: [Laughs] I know, it’s so pretty, and, like, I have friends who live on the islands, so whenever I go over I’m like, even though it’s like, for, to get to Salt Spring Island it’s like a four-hour ferry trip, but I’m like, the views I get to visit upon –

Sarah: It’s incredible!

Stephanie: – while I’m traveling there? It is so worth it, every single time.

Sarah: Incredible.

Stephanie: Yeah. I’ve even seen, I’ve even seen dolphins, and I’ve even seen orcas.

Sarah: Oh, that’s cool.

Stephanie: They will some- – like, not often, but sometimes they will swim kind of close to the ferry lines. It’s so cool.

Sarah: That’s so cool!

Stephanie: I know.

Sarah: I’m sure they’re like, Treats! Treats!

Stephanie: Yeah. [Laughs] Where’s our fish?

Sarah: Got fish? Throw fish! Would you send me one of your sunrise pictures so I can put it in the show notes?

Stephanie: I will! Yes!

Sarah: Yay, excellent!

Stephanie: Yes, I will.

Sarah: So I’m asking everybody, if you brought more than one title it is fine, but what is a book or books that rocked your world this year?

Stephanie: Okay, so I have, I have two books, but one of them is technically a series, so –

Sarah: That’s okay!

Stephanie: – I hope that’s okay.

Sarah: That’s fine!

Stephanie: All right. So the first book is by Freya Marske, and it’s Cinder House, and it’s a retelling of Cinderella, but it’s, Cinderella is a ghost who is trapped by a slightly magical house after her untimely death. And so she becomes a slave to the house and a slave to her stepsister and her stepmother because of, she’s literally part of the house.

Sarah: Ohhh.

Stephanie: It is so good! Like, I did not think that in my era of perimenopause, that I would relate so heavily to a sixteen-year-old to going onto twenty-year-old in this book, because it, it spans four years.

Sarah: Yeah.

Stephanie: But it, it is so brilliantly told, that even me at forty-two can deeply feel the frustrations of being trapped, and I was just like, this is amazing. And the – it has a better twist than M. Night Shyamalan could ever dream of.

Sarah: Oooh –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – big praise.

Stephanie: Yeah. Like, and, I mean, it’s, you know, it’s good praise, but you know what I mean? Like, it’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Stephanie: – it’s, yeah. And, and hon-, honestly, I love Freya Marske’s books. Like, she just writes amazing characters, you know?

Sarah: That’s so cool! And this book –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – just came out! It just came out in like early October!

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: So it really –

Stephanie: I got –

Sarah: – like, nailed your best-of this –

Stephanie: Yes.

Sarah: – list this year.

Stephanie: Yeah, it really hit, it hit me so hard. And I think it’s just, like, also because I’m going through my own things where, like, I found out I’m a lesbian! I found out that my whole entire life is going to change from here on. I have three kids; I now have to leave my house that I’ve lived in for twenty-one years. Like, all of these things, and so, like, that culmination in this book just, like, really resonated with me? It was so good.

And then my second book is technically a series, and it’s by, it’s the Midsolar Murders by Mur Lafferty, which is the best title, ‘cause if you know, like, Midsomer Murders?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: Yes. And I’ve been listening to, like – so Mur Lafferty is, like, a great author. I, she has a podcast that is, one of her books is just like a book podcast?

Sarah: Yep.

Stephanie: And that one is called Playing for Keeps, and that one’s really good too, so, like, if anyone wants to just, like, listen to something free and be like, Do I like this?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: You’ll like it.

Midsolar Murders is a sci-fi murder mystery, and it has aliens on an alternative Earth, and my favorite part about it is the rock alien species called Gneiss? They’re just called Gneiss. And they occupy the space station, and the space station is living rock as well, and Mallory, the main character, when she gets too close to humans, like, murder happens around her?

Sarah: Ruh-roh.

Stephanie: And, and yeah, and so it’s so good. It, the, the humor was so perfectly timed. Like, I would love to see it as a TV series, because it would just, like, it just has, like, that, that, that character-driven, that depth of hilarity and comedy, but, like, that sense of mystery that you kind of don’t get in TV anymore? Like, it really brought back, like, Columbo day –

Sarah: Yes.

Stephanie: – you know? Like, I was like, Oh, this is so good! Like, I just, mm, num-num-num-num. I just wanted to eat it all up. And there’s three books in it right now, and I don’t know if there’s a fourth one. I really hope, but – it’s, the first book is – I know, right? [Laughs] – the first book is really good, and then the second book is also really good, and the third book, again, really good, and it’s all, like, kind of similar cast of characters?

Sarah: Yep.

Stephanie: And so you get new characters and everything, but some of the jokes just keep hitting, because they’re like, they keep coming back and hitting the same beats over and over again, and it’s really good. It’s just, that repetition and the, the depth of character –

Sarah: Yep.

Stephanie: – I think is just, it really, it really makes Mur Lafferty, like, one of my favorite authors; like, just stand out above, above a lot of other murder mysteries, I think. But I like a good comedy with my murder, ‘cause otherwise it’s just a little too heavy.

Sarah: Yes, the comedy of it –

Stephanie: Yes.

Sarah: – especially, especially when the characters sort of, are sort of aware. Like, I read, I read the first one, and I, one of the things I liked was that the characters are sort of aware: Okay, this is all together ridiculous? Like, we live in a space station, and there’s a murder, and what the hell? Like, this is –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – absurd.

Stephanie: [Laughs] Yeah, and this is absolutely absurd, and how many people died? What?!

Sarah: Right?

Stephanie: Yeah. [Laughs] And then no one believed her –

Sarah: Yep.

Stephanie: – and she was like, This was going to happen! I knew it was going to happen!

Sarah: Told you!

Stephanie: And just the way all the little threads of plot come together? Just, it’s so satisfying.

Sarah: Yep.

Stephanie: By the end you’re like, Oh my God, that came together so well. Like, I did not expect it to come together so well. Yeah.

Sarah: Yay! That is excellent. What a good rec! Thank you!

Stephanie: You’re welcome.

Sarah: Did you read the Olivia Waite novella, also a mystery set in a space station?

Stephanie: Which one is that one?

Sarah: It was Murder by Memory by Olivia Waite. It was a short little book; it was a hundred and twelve pages. It’s the first in the Dorothy Gentleman series, and –

Stephanie: Okay, I’m going to have to read that. That sounds good.

Sarah: – it has a library on board the ship where people – so basically, the premise is you, you have all of these people on an, on an interstellar passenger ship, like spaceship, and –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – your, the bodies don’t last as long, because they have normal lifespans, so –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – everyone has their, their person-, their personhood, their soul, if you want to use that word – it’s in a book in the library, and then you can arrange to have a new body created. There’s always a little bit of variation, and you can, you have some, like, direction? But you have these abilities to restore yourself into a new body? And –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – Dorothy is woken up by the ship because something has gone wrong, and –

Stephanie: My gosh.

Sarah: – she wakes up in a body that is not hers.

Stephanie: Okay, I love this.

Sarah: Yep!

Stephanie: [Laughs]

Sarah: And she’s a ship’s detective, and the ship’s like, Yo, listen, I need you; drops her in this body; and she’s like, Who, what? So not only did she just wake up from, like, interstellar sleep, but she’s like, What the hell body is this? These are not my tits! What?

[Laughter]

Stephanie: Yeah, ‘cause I would totally notice. Like, that’s the thing, though, is, I would notice!

Sarah: Oh, I would totally notice! Absolutely! But you might really like that. The, the sort of vibe –

Stephanie: Okay.

Sarah: – is similar? And there’s a lot of references to classic mysteries in there, too.

Stephanie: Okay, I love that.

Sarah: Yay!

Stephanie: I’m going to, I’m going to read that. I’m putting that on my TBR.

Sarah: Excellent! I’m a, I’m an, I’m an expensive person to know.

Stephanie: Yeah, you are so expensive to listen to!

Sarah: I am really expensive, yeah.

Stephanie: I will agree! [Laughs]

Sarah: I just need you to know, though, every time I do these – this is episode, this is Holiday Wishes Number Six – aaand I’ve added like twelve books to my TBR because people keep telling me about books that I didn’t know about, and –

Stephanie: Yep! I’ve already, I’ve already listened to the first two episodes, the holiday episodes, and I’ve already added another –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: – three books.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: And I’m like –

Sarah: Oh yeah, a pile! Pile of books! Oh yes.

Stephanie: [Laughs] So, like, just on the wait list for my library, like, girl, listen –

Sarah: Yep!

Stephanie: – we have a book budget! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yep. What are your wishes for everyone in 2026?

Stephanie: Okay, so I had to write a little thing down so I would remember, but I wish for everyone to be a villager. And it sounds a little weird, but there is this TikTok-er who said it way better than I could have. Her name is Samantha dot Garix – or garcix! G-A-R-C-I-X. [samantha.garcix] And she said, If you want a village, you have to be a villager.

Sarah: Yep!

Stephanie: Sometimes that means paying the price of friendship and community, which is frustration and annoyance, and still showing up for other people –

Sarah: Yes.

Stephanie: – so they will show up for you when you need them. So I wish for everyone to be a villager, but also I wish that the annoyance and frustration of communication – or the annoyance and frustration of building part of a community is outweighed by the blessings of good communication and understanding and patience for everyone and yourself. So that’s –

Sarah: I love that wish, because you know what? Other people can be very annoying.

Stephanie: Yes, they can! And –

Sarah: It’s really too bad! [Laughs]

Stephanie: It’s really too bad, because they had so much potential! [Laughs]

Sarah: Right? I understand this perfectly, and I agree. It, it is important to be a villager? If you want to have a village, you have to be part of it? You can’t just be like –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: – I, I – you can’t just be extractive about it.

Stephanie: Exactly. And you can’t just wash your hands of someone just because they, like, you find them annoying? Like, if there’s nothing else that’s pressing that they are taking away from that village, but they are adding –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: – more than their annoyance is there for being, sure they might be a little annoying, and sure they might be, you know, outspoken with their frustrations, but that doesn’t mean that we should immediately write them off, you know? And I, I wish for everyone to find a good village and also to be blessed with good communication. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yaaay!

Stephanie: And maybe, I don’t know, a nice therapist.

Sarah: Ooh, gosh, yes! That’s, that is, that’s going to be my, one of my wishes: I wish for everyone who is seeking therapy to find a person –

Stephanie: Find that person.

Sarah: – a person who is available on your schedule who you vibe with.

Stephanie: And also affordable.

Sarah: Oh yes! God, yes.

Stephanie: [Laughs]

Sarah: Affordable, affordable, available, and good vibes.

Stephanie: Yes. I actually did recently get a new therapist this year, and I act-, because we’re, I’m in Canada, there is a foundation that helps women find therapy that is on the cheap end, so, like –

Sarah: Oh?

Stephanie: – they’ll give you a certain amount of free session –

Sarah: Right.

Stephanie: – and then there’s a sliding scale afterwards?

Sarah: Ooh!

Stephanie: So I kind of wish that for – I wish a sliding scale –

Sarah: Yeess!

Stephanie: – for everyone. If you’re going to go find therapy, I hope that they have a sliding scale for you.

Sarah: Yes, yes.

Stephanie: Yes.

Sarah: Okay, Canada, quit showing off.

Stephanie: I’m so sorry!

Sarah: That’s okay. And you’re, that’s for Canadian!

Stephanie: ‘Cause you know why?

Sarah: You’re already apologizing! [Laughs]

Stephanie: Here’s, here’s my ad for BC, other than the beautiful scenery, is that we are always looking for health professionals! So –

Sarah: Ohhh really!

Stephanie: Yes! We actually spend a lot of money on campaigns in Washington State to try and encourage people to come up north for –

Sarah: I’m surprised there’s not a line! I’m surprised there’s not, like –

Stephanie: Honestly –

Sarah: – a special line at the border – like, listen! Listen –

Stephanie: Yeah.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Stephanie: I know, and I will say, the, the immigration process – I’ve heard – is terrifying. Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Oh yes. It’s quite a process.

Stephanie: So yeah. But there is a, there is a, a lot of, a lot of our provincial leaders are looking for healthcare professionals like OT, PT, therapy, like nurses, RNs, LPNs –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Stephanie: – doctors, everyone, specialists, to just come on in!

Sarah: Yep!

Stephanie: [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, let us manifest this for everyone!

Stephanie: Let us manifest for everyone! But Sarah, I would like to ask –

Sarah: Yeah!

Stephanie: – do you want to hear my joke about paper?

Sarah: Are you kidding? Yes! I, I want to hear your joke about paper!

Stephanie: Well, well – [sighs] – you know what, never mind. It’s tearable.

[Laughter]

Stephanie: I tested it on my sixteen-year-old –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Stephanie: and the groan I got – [laughs] – was so big! I was like, Oh, I’ve got to tell this one.

Sarah: [Laughs more] Thank you!

Stephanie: You’re so welcome!

Sarah: I love it.

[music]

Lisa: I’m Lisa; I usually post as Lisa M., and I’m in Houston, Texas.

Sarah: Hey, awesome! So what book or books rocked your world in 2025?

Lisa: Well, I do have more than one, but I limited myself to three.

Sarah: Okay!

Lisa: So. The first is, I think was from a YA, YR recommendation: For Whom the Belle Tolls by Jaysea Lynn? Which, this book, oh my gosh! I don’t know that I’ve been as immersed in a story in years. I mean, it was just – and it was my first monster-forking book, so that was sort of an educational experience for me too. And there’s a sequel, I believe, coming out, I’m hoping next year, so I will be like first in line for that.

Sarah: That’s awesome! What did you like about it?

Lisa: Well, I like books about the afterlife, but this wasn’t just a ghost, you know, returning. This was making a life in the afterlife, and I love the bureaucracy and the way that the, the characters worked in that bureaucracy and made it more efficient! But also, like, got along so well working with each other. And then the little child, Sharkie, coming in – well, not baby, of course, but coming in and finding her place and – it just, it was just such a warm, loving book.

Sarah: That’s so great! What else do you have?

Lisa: Martha Wells’ Queen Demon. At this point I think I will read anything Martha Wells writes, but this one, again, just – actually this week I bought, she reissued her two YA books, the Emilie Adventures –

Sarah: Yes!

Lisa: – as a single – yeah, I haven’t read those yet, so I now have another unread Martha Wells, but – and I, I know Murderbot, but for me her fantasy has just always been just – the world she creates, and the people, I just sink into them, and Queen Demon was amazing.

Sarah: She is so good at that.

Lisa: Yes. This book explained the title of the first book – [laughs] – and then I presume the next book is going to explain the title of this book, which I think is kind of fun too.

Sarah: [Laughs] Keep reading: you’ll find out what this means.

Lisa: Yes! You’ll find out what this means.

Sarah: That is so great! I have not read the Emilie Adventures yet; they are on my list.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So I, if you read them, please let me know what you think.

Lisa: YA steampunk: I mean – [sighs] – yeah.

Sarah: What could, what could possibly go wrong, right? It’s amazing.

Lisa: I know. I know. [Laughs]

Sarah: She’s so good?

Lisa: She is! And she just, I mean, she just keeps writing! It’s sort of like T. Kingfisher; she’s not as fast as T. Kingfisher, but, you know, she just keeps giving us these wonderful stories.

Sarah: Yes.

Lisa: And I love that she’s revising and reissuing her older books, too.

Sarah: Yes. I think that’s very cool. I –

Lisa: So, yeah.

Sarah: I was so enthralled by the Raksura books?

Lisa: [Gasps] Yes! That was my introduction to her, before Murderbot!

Sarah: Scaly, winged, flying, matriarchal, pansexual beings.

Lisa: Yes!

Sarah: There’s so much! There’s just so much! [Laughs]

Lisa: And Moon as an outsider coming into that world so we –

Sarah: Yep.

Lisa: – see the world through his eyes.

Sarah: Yep.

Lisa: And then to find out how connected he really is and his struggle with his own identity.

Sarah: Yep.

Lisa: Stone – [laughs] – I want more Stone.

Sarah: I just love, I love how frigging huge Stone is, and then, like –

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: – Moon looks at that and is like, Well, that’s what I’m going to be – ok-, okay!

Lisa: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: That’s going to be me some day! He keeps seeing glimpses of his future that he didn’t know he had –

Lisa: Yes.

Sarah: – throughout the book in all these different ways? I read somebody talking about how it was one of the best Lost Princess stories they’d ever read, and I was like, Oh gosh, yes! Moon –

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – is totally a Lost Princess! Of course he is!

Lisa: I hadn’t thought of that, but yes!

Sarah: Isn’t it? Isn’t it such –

Lisa: Rescued by the line grandfather.

Sarah: Yep!

Lisa: Yeah!

Sarah: Pretty dope! Pretty dope!

Lisa: Pretty dope.

Sarah: All right, what else?

Lisa: And also, with the Raksura, that the stories have moved around that world, too. When I met Martha Wells, which was at a signing for Murderbot, all I wanted to talk about was Raksura.

Sarah: Yep!

Lisa: I’m sure that kind of threw her off for a little bit. I doubt we’ll get anymore stories, but I still keep rereading them.

Sarah: I, I’m just sort of in awe that that was where her brain went, and I was like, Yep, I’m coming with you; this sounds great.

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: This is not anything that I normally read, not in the least little bit. It’s kind of violent. I had to be like, Sarah, there’s going to be violence in these books ‘cause you are outside of your genre. Like, I had to –

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – tell myself, This isn’t real; it is okay. And woof! It, there is some violence.

Lisa: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like creatures eating other creatures, like, damn! Okay!

Lisa: Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Sarah: Oof.

Lisa: The, the evil are pretty evil in that…

Sarah: I mean, they’re real bad; they’re real, real bad.

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: So what else?

Lisa: Did you read the short stories too?

Sarah: I haven’t! I have not read the short stories, but I…

Lisa: Two books of short stories.

Sarah: Oh man, really? I’ll get there.

Lisa: One of them is where the, Moon and Jade’s clutch arrives.

Sarah: I didn’t know that! [Gasps] Ooh, yay. [Sings] Writing that down. Hang on! Got to write that down. Okay, cool, thank you! Oh my gosh!

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: What is your next book? Do you have another one?

Lisa: Yes, it’s the nonfiction choice. It’s Story of a Murder by Hallie Rubenhold? So it’s, the subtitle is The Wives, the Mistress, and Dr. Crippen. So Hawley Crippen, who I was surprised to find murdered his first wife as well as his second wife, and she’s been sort of written out of the story. So Hallie Rubenhold, to me, she just, she brings the women in these stories to life so much, and I really, by the time I got to the end I just, I was grieving for these women!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: Even though they’ve died more than a, you know, more than a hundred years ago, still. I just thought it was fascinating and enthralling and sad, and I learned so much about the, the times from that book.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: So much of True Crime, when it’s not well done, flattens the, the victims, especially if they’re women, especially if they’re marginalized, into like a one-word summary.

Lisa: Yes. Like with the Jack, her book on Jack the Ripper, which I can’t usually read about Jack the Ripper ‘cause at a young age I found an article about him and developed sort of nightmares about it. But she, she focused on the victims and said right up, These are not prostitutes, and she got so much pushback for that! For daring to say these women were not all sex workers, with the subtext that they deserved it, you know? So that book is also amazing.

Sarah: I have read, and I don’t know what you think about this theory, but that a lot of people, a lot of people read True Crime for a sense of comfort, to reconcile violence that has happened to them –

Lisa: Mm.

Sarah: – or in their world, and for them it is a form of processing. And I will never harsh on anybody reading anything; like, if this works for you, then you do your thing. But there are also a lot of people who look at, like, the sociology perspective of True Crime and how much a lot of it is people saying, Oh, well, I would never do that, so this will never happen to me. Using it as a technique of reassurance, like, Oh, well, I would never do that, so this will never happen to me. Not really wanting to face how truly random some of these crimes are?

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And it’s very interesting to me to see how True Crime has started to evolve where the victims are centered. Where –

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: – that work will point out the flaws of prior work. Even if those authors –

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – are still alive, True Crime is like, No, here – there are people within True Crime who are reckoning with its own history, which I find so interesting, ‘cause, I mean, romance, we have to do the same thing.

Lisa: Right.

Sarah: It’s fascinating to see in other genres.

Lisa: I’ve also read or heard commentary that True Crime is overly white, that it, you know, focuses on especially white women in peril.

Sarah: Oh yes.

Lisa: And that there are a lot of stor-, other stories that could, could be, could and should be told.

Sarah: Quite. We, we damsel real hard in our culture.

Lisa: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sarah: We do a good damsel.

Lisa: Yeah, we do!

Sarah: So what wishes do you have for everyone going into 2026?

Lisa: I was listening I think to a mindfulness podcast, and, and the podcaster spoke about the lovingkindness meditation, and I immediately had to write it down. She talked about it in the context of if there’s someone you’re having difficulty with –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: – that if you can sort of focus on them and then focus on yourself and focus on sort of pus-, pushing that into the world. You can start off with May I be safe, may I be healthy, may I be happy, and be at peace. And when I was thinking about, I knew you were going to ask this, that’s what I would wish for, for everyone: to be safe, to be healthy, to be happy, and to be at peace.

Sarah: That is a very good wish and very comprehensive.

Lisa: And I’ve also found it very effective when someone’s just irritating the pants off me, to just stop and say, You know what? I hope you’re safe and healthy and happy and at peace, far away from me! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes. I want to see you eat; just not with me.

Lisa: Yes, exactly.

Sarah: When someone is on my very last nerve, I often tell myself, I bet their dog loves them a lot.

Lisa: Oh yeah!

Sarah: Right? Like, okay –

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: – I will be –

Lisa: Somebody loves them.

Sarah: Somebody, your dog probably loves you a lot, and for that reason I will hold my tongue. But, but, wow, are you pissing me off! Do you remember what podcast it was? ‘Cause if I don’t ask someone’s going to be like, Ask what podcast it was! Do you remember what mindfulness podcast it was?

Lisa: Simple Happy Zen.

Sarah: Oh, excellent. I will link to that in the show notes.

Lisa: She has a YouTube channel –

Sarah: Ohhh.

Lisa: – so that’s, I think, probably where I found it.

Sarah: Even bettah! Fabulous. All right, I will make sure to include that.

And did you bring a bad joke? It is okay –

Lisa: No. I thought – I didn’t. I can’t think of jokes, and I meant to google…

Sarah: Don’t worry about it! Totally fine! Thank you so much for doing this. I love connecting with everybody, and I, I love that you came back. Thank you!

Lisa: And also, this is, your office is starting to seem familiar from the crafty Zooms, too…

Sarah: [Laughs] Yeah, I have to turn off the background, but you can see my engineer is very hard at work.

Lisa: Oh yes, yes.

Sarah: Very hard.

Lisa: Supervising!

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Lisa: Supervising.

Sarah: Yeah, he’s going deaf, so –

Lisa: Oh!

Sarah: – usually when I’m on the mic he jumps up and starts yelling? But lately he sleeps through it, which is both good and bad.

Lisa: Yes.

Sarah: But I give him a lot of treats, so he’s happy.

Lisa: Good.

Sarah: Thank you so, so much for doing this. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and I will talk to you on the internet!

Lisa: You too, and thank you again for everything that you and Amanda do to, to make the site so wonderful.

Sarah: Thank you! I appreciate that.

[music]

Bull: I am Martin Bull Gudmundsen or Bull, as, as probably easiest to address me in English, of the eastern Norwegian family Bull, which probably also answers the question about where I am, which is in the east of Norway.

Sarah: Well, I mean, listen, they’re all kind of close together. You could have just wandered into Finland, right?

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: Oops, there it is!

Bull: I mean, I sometimes, I, I can take a day trip by train going through Sweden and ending up in Denmark if I want.

Sarah: Wait, there’s a train to Denmark? Does it go under the water?

Bull: No, it goes – or the, the train from Gothenburg to Denmark goes –

Sarah: That’s not that far.

Bull: – over a bridge.

Sarah: That’s not that far! On a map it looks like this massive distance. That’s very cool!

Bull: There’s a, there’s a bridge that goes, that now goes between Sweden and Denmark is the, also the site of Swedish-Dane, Swedish-Danish coproduced crime series called The Bridge.

Sarah: Oh! I’ve heard of that show! Thank you, the penny just dropped. Thank – oh, that makes total sense!

Bull: Yeah. And the plot there – or I think they made an international version, too – but the, the plot there is that a murder victim is found on the exact border between Sweden and Denmark, which means that both Swedish and Danish authorities are called to investigate. So yeah, that’s how you get from Sweden to Denmark.

Sarah: In, was the original, was the original show called Bron Broen? Broen?

Bull: Broen, yes, that is a –

Sarah: Broen! I was close. We did an American version, and I didn’t even know this, about the US-Mexico border. I, I want to watch the original. I mean, the US version I’m sure is great, but I want to watch the original; that sounds very…

Bull: The original’s pretty good. Or the first season is very good, and the following seasons are pretty good as well.

Sarah: That’s cool!

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: So what book or books rocked your world this year?

Bull: [Sighs] I haven’t been very rock-able through the year? So for a long time I was trying to figure out what, which books to mention here.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Bull: I think I’ve, I’ve ended up with Interview with the Vampire?

Sarah: Oh, that’s a classic!

Bull: Yeah, it’s not 2025.

Sarah: No, it – any book you haven’t read is a new book, so I don’t care if it’s a –

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: – 2025 book.

Bull: It’s also not a new book, because I reread it.

Sarah: Oh, you reread it! That’s, that’s cool!

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: What –

Bull: So, but I hadn’t read it for a very long time, so now I recognize things like craft, both in characters and stuff.

Sarah: Yep.

Bull: I also read it for a book club I’m in and even more of an analytic eye, and now this time I discovered that the definitive, definite, definite strength of the book or the book series is the author’s prose, at least edited. I haven’t seen her unedited face yet?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Bull: Her intensely intimate association with her characters.

Sarah: Oh, yes. Yes, very much so.

Bull: But there’s not very much plot in the book. It starts out with a bit of plot, and then there’s about fifty percent of it with roaming New Orleans and then roaming around, roaming around Europe, and then there’s a few percent of plot again at the end.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bull: But the –

Sarah: It’s so true! [Laughs]

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: A vampire and a journalist go on a wander. Let’s take a walk! Okay, that is so funny. It’s so true. [Laughs]

Bull: Yeah. But the, the voice of the vampire and the voice of the author and her sections of the vampire –

Sarah: Yeah.

Bull: The, I mean, the vampire, or at least in the first book, Louis is known to be extremely whiny.

Sarah: He is whiny.

Bull: But this kind of enjoyable in the book because he’s written with such a deep understanding for the character.

Sarah: Yes, that’s true.

Bull: And then I have the, I have the, I have a theory that I can understand why the author later famously says that she doesn’t accept being edited?

Sarah: [Laughs] Yeah.

Bull: Which is, I, I haven’t read those books, but I kind of understand that immediacy of language and the immediacy of the intuitive, intuitive writing she does, and I kind of understand how someone who identifies with their characters and their language like that can feel editing to be very intrusive.

Sarah: Yep, I can see the argument, but I still maintain most people need an editor. [Laughs] I –

Bull: Yeah, probably.

Sarah: I edit myself, and I don’t always do the best job, so when I’m edited by someone else I’m like, Oh! Yeah, you’re right; I do do that a lot. Thank you –

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: – for pointing that out, yeah. Editing is a gift, and being, having a good editor is a gift, so if she had crappy editors I empathize, but, girl.

Bull: I, I think she had a pretty good editor; she kept working with that editor. She just said, I don’t want you to change my words anymore.

Sarah: Yeah.

Bull: Understand it.

Sarah: Okay! Well then. Is that the book that you brought, or do you have others?

Bull: That’s the book I…most about? I can talk about others.

Sarah: Is there another book you want to bring up? It’s totally cool if you do!

Bull: Yeah. it’s also not 2025. I think it came out in 1580.

Sarah: [Laughs] Okay, sure! Little old.

Bull: Which is the essays of Michel de Montaigne?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Bull: He was a French, sixteenth-century nobleman, philosopher, writer who wrote a collection of texts that become the model, or became the model for the essay genre. I’ve been…

Sarah: That’s cool!

Bull: I read about half of those earlier, or in the first half of this year. Reading it unlocked, reading it unlocked my own essay-writing ability, and was, I’ve been pretty stuck on nonfiction of any sort for a very long time. But reading it unlocked something in me that made me now able to write.

Sarah: That’s cool!

Bull: Including, I’m even trying book reviews, although they are a bit long and unwieldy yet, but maybe I’ll be able to write some of those too in the future.

Sarah: Wow, what a cool book! I didn’t know this existed, so I’m very excited. I, I’m reserving the audiobook for myself in my bookmarks.

Bull: I mean, he’s almost by definition a middle-aged –

Sarah: Yeah.

Bull: – white dude talking about his, himself, but talking about yourself is kind of the foundation of essays anyway.

Sarah: That is the whole point!

What wishes do you have for everyone in 2026?

Bull: Yeah, I have been debating this a lot because I have a strong urge to go with political wishes like, you know, yeah, I hope most of you survive and stuff like that.

Sarah: Thank you; much appreciated.

Bull: But I’ve also been thinking about how the, those, those people in your country are kind of doing the same thing as Thanos, Thanos in the Avengers and closing their hands and saying I am inevitable?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Bull: And I don’t believe them for a second. And I don’t want to play into their narrative of inevitability.

Sarah: Yep.

Bull: So I will, except for the speech I already had, held, set the politics aside and go with a warm and sweet and personal message instead.

Sarah: That’s totally up to you!

Bull: Which is May your loved one always know the truth of it when you remind them that they are awesome.

Sarah: That is such a good wish! That is a lovely wish. Recognizing that you are loved is a really powerful thing.

And I really like what you said about how the people who are in power in the US think that they are Thanos, and they are not Thanos? They think they are, but they are not.

Bull: Mm-hmm. I mean, they are, they are Thanos at the end, probably.

Sarah: Yeah.

Bull: And someone snaps their hand and they are forgot-, dust forgotten by history, but –

Sarah: Yep! I mean, they are intent on a lot of destruction and a lot –

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: – of callous destruction.

Bull: Yes.

Sarah: And yeah! Yep, that’s an excellent way to look at it. Thank you for that! I appreciate it.

Bull: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, did you bring a bad joke? It is okay if you did not.

Bull: I’m beginning to wonder if you know me at all?

[Laughter]

Sarah: I, I do.

Bull: Yeah. Yes, I have several. Again, problems, difficulties to choose between them, because one is somewhat blasphemous? I shared it on the Discord.

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Bull: What type of pastry is the communion wafer?

Sarah: What type of pastry is the communion wafer? What?

Bull: It’s savior-y.

Sarah: Savory! [Laughs] Savior-y! It’s savior-y! That’s excellent. May I ask what your other joke was, ‘cause I’m, I’m very greedy?

Bull: Yeah! The, yeah, the other is actually not a pun, pun joke? It is the Swede, the Dane, and the Norwegian joke, which is a gen-, Scandinavian genre of jokes, or at least a Norwegian genre of light, of jokes. I suspect the Swedes and Danes kind of switch the protagonists somewhat.

So there’s this time, there was this time when the Swede and the Dane and Norwegian held a contest to see who could hold out, hold out the longest inside the pig’s house?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Bull: And then first the Swede went in, and he stayed there for a while, but then the pig farted, and the Swede came running out.

Sarah: Okay.

Bull: And then it was the Dane’s turn, and the Dane went into the pig’s house, and he stayed there for, again, quite some time, but then the pig farted and the Dane came running out. And then of course it was the Norwegian’s turn, and he went into the pig house. He stayed there, stayed there for quite a while and, you know, it was, they were standing there outside with the stopwatches and wondering if he was going to make it, and then the Norwegian farted and the pig came running out.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s delightful! Thank you, Bull!

Bull: So to the Swedes and Danes listening to this, I’m sure you would, again, like to switch the protagonists.

Sarah: Of course! Of course, of course! [Laughs] The pig farted – [laughs more]. Thank you very much for that; I love it. And thank you for doing this every year. It’s really nice to talk to you!

Bull: Yeah! It’s really nice to meet you. It brightens a period of the year where Norway has very little daylight.

Sarah: I know; you have, have only a few hours this time of year.

Bull: Yeah. The sun, it started to get dark around three today, so –

Sarah: Oof.

Bull: – you’ll have three weeks left until the solstice.

Sarah: Oooh, that’s rough. I hope you and everyone has lots of, lots of light and comfort in the darkness.

Bull: Yeah! They’re just, they’re just little Christmas lighting in the park outside my window, so…

Sarah: Oh, that’s pretty!

Bull: Yeah!

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you so much to Bull, Lisa, Stephanie, and Jenna for connecting with me. I love doing these every year.

And there will be two more Holiday Wishes episodes! One on January 2, and then we’re going to take a little break on January 9th, for our seven hundredth episode – I have something special planned – and Amanda and I will be sharing our Holiday Wishes and recommendations the week after that.

Thank you so much for being part of these. It has completely lifted the end of my year, and I hope that you have enjoyed these episodes as much as I have. I have photos and links and books in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 698 – whoo! That’s a big number.

I end every episode with a terrible joke. This joke comes to me from Adam, who I’m married to, by way of Missdorkness. Thank you, Missdorkness.

If a croque madame speaks to another croque madame about something other than a croque monsieur, that’s called passing the béchamel test.

[Laughs] Adam told me that the other night, and I literally went, Oh nooo! Please send that to me. Béchamel test!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and Merry Christmas if you’re celebrating. We will see you back here next week! And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening. You’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]