689. RT Rewind: May 2016 Ads & Features

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Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 689 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and we are going back to May 2016 with Amanda to look at the ads and features in Romantic Times magazine. The kilts are kilting and the abs are ab-, ab-b-bing, and we have a few questions. How do we feel about the terms book boyfriend and pre-con? How much of a 2016 conference depended on Twitter to announce pop-up signings and special limited-time events? And do you remember how important Twitter used to be to a conference? How many ways are there to photograph a very muscled, shirtless man? We are going to see all of them. So hop into the time machine; we’ve got the snacks and we’re off to May 2016.

Patreon folks, the full issue is on Patreon for your downloading pleasure, and you have an extended cut of this episode available through the app or through your private feed.

And speaking of Patreon, I have a compliment.

To Glori M.: Squirrels and chipmunks hide a lot of their winter storage near your home, partially because there’s ground there, and partially because they like visiting you, because you are the most dependable, thoughtful, funny, and delightful human they know.

If you would like to have a compliment of your very own or you would like to support this show, your support means a lot right now. As I have been saying in prior episodes, a listener let me know that a dynamic insertion ad had included an ad for ICE. I would like to turn them all off, because that is abhorrent. So if you have been thinking about joining the Patreon, now would be a great time. I make about two hundred dollars a month from Acast, and if I can gather enough new Patreon memberships, I can turn off all of the dynamic ads permanently. Look at it this way: it’s like buying me one nice cocktail a month. We are over halfway, and it would be wonderful to have you join the Patreon community. You get the full RT issues, you get extended cuts of episodes, a truly wonderful Discord, bonus episodes, and the chance to be in our end-of-year holiday wishes episodes. If you’d like to join, it would be lovely to have you: patreon.com/SmartBitches.

All right, are you ready to hop in the time machine and go back to May 2016? On with the podcast.

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Sarah: We are back to talk about the May 2016 ads and features, and as I mentioned in the last episode, it isn’t so much the ads and the stories themselves that are interesting to me; it’s how different things are then versus now, and this is only nine years ago; and how much of an effect social media and how it’s changed the relationship between readers and authors and readers and books. It’s just all very fascinating.

So let’s start with our cover, shall we?

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: The cover her is 1001 Dark Nights; it’s a feature article about the entire line. But 1001 Dark Nights is a, basically a novella publisher were, by invitation only, and we’ll get to this in the article, they invited pretty prominent authors to write continuation novellas in existing series that they had published elsewhere, which is pretty smart, but it’s mostly about marketing.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And this, I think this was a period of time when the marketing of romance and how romance was sold and talked about and the channels for marketing it were changing very rapidly. Which may also have led to the decline and demise of RT as well.

Amanda: Yeah, this was also a period of time, and I think we talked about this when we did another 2016 issue, about the digital-only imprints that were popping up –

Sarah: Yes! Oh yes.

Amanda: – around different publishers? Like, I think Forever had one; it was like Forever Yours. Simon & Schuster had one. Like, all of the major publishers had digital-only romance imprints, and the books were also a little smaller in length than a regular full-length novel?

Sarah: There were a lot of –

Amanda: But –

Sarah: – novellas, too.

Amanda: Yeah, and they were reasonably priced for eBooks, as well. So I remember this being a time of digital-only imprints, especially for, like, spicier things.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Amanda: As we saw with the reviews, like the Avon Red Impulse line.

Sarah: And novellas and shorter books are fewer and far between; when you look at what’s popular it’s, you know, books the size of your head.

Amanda: Stop doing it!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Stop doing that.

Sarah: I saw someone on, I think it was Bluesky or somewhere on social media going, what’s the one that came out just now, is it Alchemised that’s out now? I get them all mixed up. Is it Alchemised or Manacled or monkety-butt? Yeah.

Amanda: As we –

Sarah: Alchemised, yeah. I saw somebody on social media talking about Alchemised like, Where are the reviews? Why is no one talking about it? And my first thought was, ‘Cause they’re not done with it ‘cause it’s nine thousand words long! [Laughs] It’s so big –

Amanda: Or –

Sarah: – they’re not finished yet!

Amanda: Or if they’re talking about it it’s like, Why are we publishing this? So.

Sarah: [Laughs] So the cover here –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is 1001 Dark Nights, Discover Collection Three. It’s just a picture of the anthology and of filigree in the background? I think this is pretty effective because it is showing the book; it’s not showing a picture of the author, but I started wondering, thinking about the overall cover art, if covers that featured publishers – ‘cause last month we did Love & Laughter from Harlequin?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Are covers that feature a whole publisher or a whole line a more effective use of advertising dollars in terms of promoting a larger number of authors at the same time versus a single author book or a single author headshot, and I really wonder if being the feature as a publisher made any dent. I’m very curious.

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, the thing with marketing, especially romance marketing, that we’ve experienced is a lot of the marketing happening now isn’t for people already inside the house.

Sarah: Nope! You’re so right about that. We talk about this a lot.

Amanda: And if you’re subscribing to this magazine you’re already in the house. You set up shop; you’ve got your little La-Z-Boy; you’re there.

Sarah: I know where the spoons are; I can get myself a drink; it’s fine!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Yeah. [Laughs]

Amanda: So, and I feel like people who do subscribe to this magazine, or did, are pretty on top of new releases, as well. Like, they’re cataloging what’s coming out and keeping track of it.

Sarah: Oh yeah. Spreadsheets, social media, oh yeah.

Amanda: So I don’t know if it made a dent at all, because they’re advertising to people who probably –

Sarah: Are already –

Amanda: – yeah, are already here, probably already know about this, especially if they’re attending RT?

Sarah: ‘Cause, yes, 1001 Dark Nights –

Amanda: ‘Cause 1001 Nights was –

Sarah: – had a –

Amanda: – everywhere.

Sarah: – major presence: lots of decals, big parties, yeah.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: On page 2, this is an ad for the Kresley Cole series, the Game Maker series: The Player, The Master, and The Professional, and this was an era where the cover models were often sliced off just at the bridge of the nose, and my comment for this whole series – I will put this in the show notes – his job is chin.

Amanda: Yeah. Please also –

Sarah: He is just a chin.

Amanda: – insert a sad trombone noise when we talk about this series.

Sarah: [Sad trombone noise]

Amanda: I was so – [laughs] – disappointed with this book! I read the first two, and I didn’t even bother to read the last one.

Sarah: His job is chin! The whole message of this cover is – ‘cause the lightest thing on the page is his chin! His job is chin; that’s the whole job of this guy on the cover.

Amanda: Yeah, and, well, on all the covers! There’s three different men, three different chins.

Sarah: Chins. Yep.

Page 3 is Sherrilyn Kenyon, Dragon-, ‘scuse me, Dragonbane and Born of Betrayal, both single-object col-, covers. Born of Betrayal is this big, ornate sword on, like, a fake stone floor. Look out how similar and yet how different these are from current rrromantasy covers. You know, it’s a single object; it’s fire; it’s weaponry; it’s claws. But this –

Amanda: Yeah, there’s no flowers.

Sarah: There’s no flowers!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But I would look at this and I would say, Okay, this does not look like a 2025 book, you know what I mean?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This, the object is the same, the style is different, and I think if these were re-released they would get completely different covers.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Maybe they’d even get those hot cartoon covers like Kresley Cole is getting! With the one –

Amanda: Why do you do this to me, Sarah?

Sarah: – the one – [laughs]

Amanda: Sarah’s baiting me –

Sarah: – the one girl –

Amanda: – and I don’t appreciate it.

Sarah: – [laughs] – one girl looks like she’s falling asleep!

Amanda: Well, that one was boring. That was one of the more boring ones of the IAD series. She should be asleep.

Sarah: [Laughs] On page 6, this is interesting: the magazine is the May issue, the conference is in April, but they are talking about it as if it is happening right then. It’s very weird. So they’re talking a lot about the conference, but I’m guessing by the time you got this magazine either you were there or you weren’t, or this was the issue –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that was coming out at – oh, maybe this is the one that was in the goody bags at registration, so this was also –

Amanda: Well, yeah, ‘cause they announced the winners as well…

Sarah: Maybe.

Amanda: There are, like, you know, sections for people who won RT awards –

Sarah: You’re right.

Amanda: – at the event.

Sarah: So this magazine is, as, is, is talking about the conference as if it’s happening while you’re reading it? I would like to state two things based on the letter to Book Lovers from Kathryn, Lady of Barrow. Number one: I remain uncomfortable with the words pre-con? The concept of a pre-con just, it’s too close to precum; makes me uncomfortable. Number two: I remain baffled and wary of the term book boyfriend, but particularly in this context:

>> If pre-con – [ugh] – tours of the Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam, and the Strip with Rich Devin, Lance Taubold, and Crystal Perkins aren’t wild enough, wait till you catch Christopher Rice’s cover model party on Tuesday night, attended by a dozen authors’ book boyfriends –

Huh?

>> – and the grand prize winner of our #MCMRoundup Cover Model Contest, Matthew Hosea, a Navy police officer.

I don’t understand any of the things, but an, a dozen authors’ book boyfriends? That’s even more uncomfortable for me.

Amanda: I don’t love the term book boyfriend.

Sarah: I do not love it either? I get it; it’s gr-, if that works for you, great. It is not for me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But this is just another example of how books, how, how we talk about books, and how we talk about authors has changed? Because at this point, social media is very, very hot, and a lot of it rests on Twitter? So there’s a lot of use of hashtags in writing about things in this magazine? But a dozen authors’ book boyfriends, that makes me very uncomfortable.

On page 7 are the letters to the editor, but there’s only one. The rest of it is tweets. They’re just re-, reprinting tweets. Would you want to read this letter, though? It’s really, really sweet.

Amanda: Love at First Read:

>> Just wanted to tell you I am in the process of renewing my RT subscription. Yours is the first magazine I’ve ever done that with, so you can see I really have faith in you. Yours is also the only magazine I have followed since its inception. Those were the days when the bookstores also printed monthly flyers on romance books, and it was lots of fun to compare them with you. I read the magazine from front to back the day, or I read the magazine from front to back the day it arrives. I highlight items, rip stuff out, make lists, and transfer info to spreadsheets. Then I have to wait until the next issue arrives, although the website does help with the withdrawal somewhat. I really like how RT has evolved and con-, and continues to keep growing. You try to address all facets of books, and I think that’s really important. Keep up the good work, and keep those contests going. It’s so much fun to actually win a book now and then. From the bottom of my TBR list, Daphne S. Taylor, via email

Sarah: Isn’t that sweet?

Amanda: It’s so nice!

Sarah: I personally – like, you shared a message from the, from the Bingo about how much a reader appreciates the site and that we are, you know, free and accessible, and we talk about so many different things, and having somebody say, Hey, I really like what you do, is just the best feeling? So this, this, this letter just made my heart very happy.

Then there’s this tweet:

>> Scrolling through #RT16 agenda looking for people I want to stalk – I mean see and learn from their vast wisdom.

I think you can make that joke in 2016? I don’t think you can make that joke right now.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: How – like, I’m saying how we talk about books and authors has changed so much in the past nine years. Like, at that time I’m like, Oh yeah, of course you’re joking about stalking. Now, I don’t know if you’re joking!

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: And then on page 8 there’s a feature of the RT Book Reviews Career Achievement Winners, and I’m wondering when they decide who’s getting the Career Achievement, the first question is: Who can we get up, who can we get to show up at the conference so that other people will come? Because we’ve got R. L. Stine in here? [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And, like, Rhys Bowen is in here. Maya Banks: get it. Science fiction and fantasy is, is under the copyright, and I’m having a troub-, having a hard time reading that. Let me see if I – no, I can’t cut and paste it. I don’t know who that is. There’s a bunch of big names here: Linda Lael Miller, Christine Feehan, Julia Quinn. Like, these are big names that you want to show up at your conference, but –

Amanda: It’s Nalo Hopkinson.

Sarah: Nalo Hopkinson. Okay, cool! But what is R. L. Stine doing in here? He looks so unimpressed to be in this magazine, too.

Amanda: Did he go?

Sarah: I have no idea; don’t remember meeting him. Maybe he was there for like the day or an hour or something; I have no idea. But it had to be All right, who can we get, who can we get to show up?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then on page 11 there’s the Seal of Excellence, and this is so interesting. The way this works for the Seal of Ex-, Excellence, they explain that they go through all of the Top Picks of a given month and then narrow the list down to six to nine books that got the most enthusiasm from the reviewers, and then everyone reads them until all of the editors have read all of the books, and they pick one book per month to receive that month’s Seal of Excellence, and then they select the Book of the Year from the twelve winners.

So the Seal of Excellence Book of the Year is Dumplin’ by Julie Murphy. Great choice! We still talk about that book. But here’s something so interesting: if you look through the list of Seal of Excellent books, how many of these are books that we still talk about? Like, so few. Do you want to read January through –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – January through June, and then I’ll read July through December? Like, just think about whether or not we still talk about these authors and these books –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and they’re only nine years old.

Amanda: I remember them, but I don’t know if we talk about them. So January was Say Yes to the Marquess, which we mention pretty frequently –

Sarah: Oh yes, Tessa Dare!

Amanda: – probably once a month at this point.

Sarah: People talk about Tessa Dare all the time!

Amanda: Yeah. February’s is The Companion Contract by Solace Ames. I don’t know that book at all. March was Chase Me by Tessa Bailey. I think I, I read this one, and I may have reviewed it; I don’t remember. But I read that series. I think I remember the third book being a real disappointment. Fall With Me, Jennifer L. Armentrout; I don’t think we talk about that one, but I think Jennifer Armentrout is, you know, still discussed on the site pretty regularly.

Sarah: This was a New Adult, though, and not a fantasy.

Amanda: Yeah, correct.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: May is Grave Phantoms by Jenn Bennett.

Sarah: Great book.

Amanda: We talk about that one every so often. I remember it. Nowhere But Here by Katie McGarry. I remember this being huge when it came out. A lot of people loved this one, but I don’t know, one, what Katie is writing these days, and two, if we’ve talked about it recently either.

Sarah: So here’s July through December: Time Salvager by Wesley Chu. August, The Lure of the Moonflower by Lauren Willig, which is part of the Pink Carnation series. September was Dumplin’ by Julie Murphy. October: Menagerie by Rachel Vincent.

Amanda: That one’s creepy. That’s a creepy one.

Sarah: November was November 9 by Colleen Hoover. We still talk about her, but we don’t, not necessarily that particular book. December: The Memoir of Johnny Devine by Camille Eide, from a publisher called Ashberry Lane.

It’s really interesting to look at what’s huge right now in 2025 and then look at this list of, like, the books of the month for 2016 or 20-, this is 2015. This is ten years ago. Only a few of these are books that we still talk to, talk about and reference now. Which is normal; I’m not saying that’s abnormal? But the way that books right now are talked about as if they are just societally everywhere, like they are just Astroturf-ing the world! Like, no, this is still a very niche thing. Only a very few books have ten-year longevity, and here are a few of them, but not all of them. I think that’s really interesting.

Amanda: I’d also be curious – we talk about this every issue, I feel.

Sarah: Well, let’s do it again! Bring it up! [Laughs]

Amanda: Where it’s like, if this were still going on, what would the, you know, books of the month be now? Would it just be all romantasy at this point?

Sarah: And how are we defining book of the month? Like, greatest quality? How do you find the one book out of everything that’s been published that’s like the highest quality book in your opinion? And then how do you weigh the impact of word of mouth on sales through, like, TikTok books versus self-pub versus trad pub and different genres. Like, it, I would, I would not be able to isolate a book of the month every month in 2025, and I would be very, like, the book that people are talking the most about, yes, I could probably do that, but, like, the greatest book of the month? There’s just too many to even –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – do that, right?

On page 12, do you remember these? I remember these. RT did pop-up signings. What you had to do was monitor Twitter while you were at the conference, and they would tweet using #RT16 and #RTPOPUP, about fifteen minutes for signings, free books, give out while they last, and the locations are within the convention space. They will be announced, but we, the people will be warned that each signing will be in a different spot, so no one will be able to predict which author is appearing in what location and at what time. So –

Amanda: I don’t think I ever participated, but I remember seeing people, like –

Sarah: Stampeding!

Amanda: – rushing.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah, just, like – [laughs] – to different areas. Like, what’s going on?

Sarah: And here are the authors doing pop-up signings. It is a wide range, with Kristen Ashley, Leigh Bardugo, Robyn Carr, Kiera Cass, Kresley Cole, Sylvia Day, Sonali Dev, Janet Evanovich, Christine Feehan, Kami Garcia, Abbi Glines, Larissa Ione, J. Kenner, Christina Lauren, Lora Leigh, Susan Mallery, Brenda Novak, Susan Elizabeth Phillips, Mary Jo Putney, Julia Quinn, Jill Shalvis, Nalini Singh, Nancy Thayer, and A. R. Torre. Those are some big names, right? Like, Jill Shalvis, Julia Quinn, Janet Evanovich – if it was like, Hey, fifteen minutes, you can get a free signed book from this author, I can imagine the stampede, but also, look at what a time capsule this is that you were monitoring Twitter while at the conference?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: To get additional conference information. Like, half of the conference marketing was on Twitter, just Twitter.

Amanda: I don’t know what they would use these days.

Sarah: I have no idea.

Amanda: ‘Cause I feel like right now social media is pretty fragmented.

Sarah: It’s fragmented, and it’s not all chronological?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: You have to work to find chronology in some cases? The other thing that used to happen at this time, and this was not just romance conferences but other publishing conferences I would go to, is you would follow the hashtag of the conference while at the conference, and if the session that you were in was not as interesting as the one you were reading about on Twitter, you would just get up and go to that session. Or you could follow the session and attend another one by reading about the other one later. And people would live-tweet things.

Amanda: Yeah, like stuff that was being said or whatever.

Sarah: Oh yeah! I live-tweeted the event between, it was Jude Deveraux and Julie Garwood, and my inner thirteen-year-old was losing her shit. Do you remember Twitter jail? If you tweeted more –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – than a hundred tweets in an hour, you got put in Twitter jail. So I had @SmartBitches and @SmartBitches2 because I kept getting put in Twitter jail because I’m a very fast typer. So I was live-tweeting that whole event. Like, I was just a flood of tweets where I was just saying everything that Jude Deveraux and Julie Garwood said because I was so excited. You know when you get so excited you have to tell somebody? I was just telling the whole internet in that moment. Like, I was so fricking out-of-my-mind excited to be in that room. And I got put in Twitter jail within thirty-five minutes.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Good job, me! Well done!

There’s also – [laughs] – oh my God, this one page has fucking cracked me up.

Amanda: This was the first thing that I wanted to comment on, and of course you already had made a note, but I’m like, What the fuck is this? [Laughs]

Sarah: Please tell me your commentary, ‘cause I also have commentary, and this is so funny to me!

Amanda: So it is advertising a lecture that’s happening at RT’s Social Media Fair.

Sarah: Yes, Discuss, Create, Publish, Share, and Follow!

Amanda: And they, they have a, an image with all of these different social media logos, so, like, YouTube and Facebook and Pinterest, but they have, like, foursquare on there? Oh my God –

Sarah: Oh my God, blast from the past!

Amanda: …foursquare – like, all these older logos. But they’re mentioning a lecture that’s happening from 11:15 to 12:15: “Reaching Those Elusive Millennials and Gen X-ers.”

[Laughter]

Sarah: I mean, I know you’re intrepid, but are you also elusive?

Amanda: I don’t think so. But it’s –

>> Few people are more savvy about social media than the romance community, but millennial expert Charlie Krost –

Sarah: Chelsea.

Amanda: >> – will –

Chelsea, sorry.

>> – Chelsea Krost will show you how to reach the unique millennial demographic.

Sarah: [Laughs] So I have two comments on this. Number one, as a member of Gen X, we do not wish to be reached. Thank you; please leave us alone. We, we are not elusive; we just are not social. We do not want to be reached; we would like to be ignored, and we’re ignoring everything else. Please no, no reaching to the Gen X; we do not wish to be reached. Number two: I looked up this person ‘cause I was like, Wow! According to this –

Amanda: I’m looking her up right now. [Laughs]

Sarah: – according to this page, she started her career at sixteen when she realized no one knew how to address her generation, and now at twenty-four she lectures all over the country, including Fortune 500 companies to talk about reaching the millennial demographic? This is now like a whole corner of TikTok, reaching Gen Z and Gen Alpha, but she was like, I’m going to go on tour and do this. This is her title? Tag line? This is what comes up when you google her, and this is her, like, one-line bio on her website:

>> Born entrepreneur and millennial mommy lifestyle and wellness junkie, America’s leading millennial expert, personal branding, marketing, and mindset coach.

That is so many SEO words. That’s just so many. So many of them!

Amanda: She also offers hypnosis, if anyone’s interested.

Sarah: Hey! Can you hypnotize me so that I’m not bothered by social media anymore? [Laughs]

Amanda: It’s so funny; like, in the office I work with a lot more elder millennials like myself, which has been lovely?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And – [laughs] – I feel like one key characteristic – TRIGGER WARNING to everyone – one key characteristic about an elder millennial is that we love to make a joke about killing ourselves?

Sarah: Oh! It’s, it’s a very normal thing, and it takes me a second to not go, Wait, what?!

Amanda: [Laughs] And I was like, No, that’s right. Then, so, pretty good defining feature for early elder millennials. Yeah, I just find this to be silly, as someone who is that demographic. But I understand, like, if you want to reach that demographic, it’s helpful if you consult someone who is part of that demographic?

Sarah: And someone who’s going to come to your conference and say, I can tell everybody how to do this.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, social media marketing is such a crapshoot, and the thing is, like, once you think you have a handle on the algorithm, the algo-, algorithm’s going to change –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – and then you’re going to have to do something completely different, right? So that’s the tricky thing of social media marketing is you can work with someone who has the formula of, like, Okay, you need to be posting this many times; you need to do Reels instead of posts; they have to be this amount of time –

Sarah: Got to have music!

Amanda: – but then –

Sarah: If you don’t attach music the algorithm doesn’t like it.

Amanda: But then TikTok or Instagram, they’re going to change it, so then now the algorithm favors three-minute videos and other stuff, so it is very hard to have longevity and consistency in a plan. Like, you’re constantly going to have to keep changing tactics as the platform changes, as the algorithm changes, as they release new features –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – to keep you in the app longer.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: So – [sighs] –

Sarah: Like –

Amanda: – good luck out there, everyone.

Sarah: – how many different things can you do with Instagram? It, it, just, you’re, you’re doing the same thing, but is it a Reel? Is it a Story? Is it a post? Is it a Reese, re-, rescore? I mean, c’mon!

The other thing about social media at this particular time is that a lot of the authors who were going to go to this session about elusive millennials and Gen X-ers – I still don’t know that Gen X was really that elusive in 2016 – these are all people who have established their career using completely different marketing methods and now are being told, Okay, you need to establish a brand for yourself. Your publisher is not your brand; you are the brand, and you need to have a personality, and you need to be in all of these places.

Then there was a social media fair for two hours, and you were going to learn about Snapchat, Tumblr, Pinterest, Instagram, YouTube, Google Hangouts, Twitter, Facebook, and Periscope. You can’t do all of those! I can’t even do all of those! Like, I have to sit and think, All right, where am I going to put my, put the stuff on social media to promote the site, ‘cause I can’t do all of these and run the site too. It’s bananas to me. And this is such an interesting sort of snapshot of a very particular time. Also the idea that you could build a speaking career out of how to talk to millennials.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s very funny.

Amanda: You don’t. You leave the millennials alone; they don’t want to talk to another human being.

Sarah: I mean, me and, you and me and Gen X and millennials. Like, you don’t, you don’t need to reach us.

So on page 14 is a whole page of various headshots, body shots, and naked dudes. Vegas Just Got Hotter: The 2016 Men of Romance. So we didn’t have the mangeant, but we have folks that have come every year and are now part of the RT family, and you have companies and authors sponsoring the new men of romance. So companies and authors were paying to promote the real men of romance, and there’s a lot of flexing happening here. There’s, there’s one guy –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – who looks like his head is Photoshopped on wrong?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Vik-, Vikkes Bhardwaj looks like his head is not on his body correctly? Some of the – Grigoris Drakakis is wrapped in chains? And then one guy’s, like, wearing a flannel? One guy is, Michael Foster, down in the corner, he’s got a wind machine; he’s got a black, ruffled shirt open but still tucked in, a big honking belt, and I think he’s holding a sword. Like, he is all in. And then there’s a guy with, like, a big ponytail and a tie and throwing his jacket over his shoulder. Everything is different, and I’m really not sure what they’re trying to accomplish here, other than –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – look, here are dudes.

Amanda: All, all different vibes.

Sarah: Yeah! All different vibes, and what is the point? What are they doing? There’s not a mangeant, so is it just like, Here are the men that you can sexually harass at the conference? Is that what this is? Like, what is happening here? What is the point of this?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: On page 19, an ad for a Sabrina York book caught my eye. Amanda’s, like, nodding yes. So –

Amanda: Yeah. It’s a good cover!

Sarah: It’s a great cover. Lana and the Laird by Sabrina York, which was from St. Martin’s, has a, I think this is a photograph. So this is a photograph from a photo shoot of a woman with blonde hair, and her hair’s upswept. She has sort of an off-the-shoulder blue gown, and it’s blowing out behind her, but she is ripping the shirt off this guy in a kilt. She has her hand behind his head. He’s ba-, basically holding on to her waist. She’s undressing him. It is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – very hot. Like, it, it is, it is someone, instead of having, like, the heroine just be like mouth open, overcome by the passionate feelings while he’s just, like, getting to second base and taking her bodice off? She’s ripping the clothes off this guy, and I find the, the, the flipping of the gender dominance in the image very interesting, and I think it’s very hot.

Amanda: I like those kinds of covers. I think I remember clinch covers better when it’s like that, because it’s –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – such a departure from what we normally see?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: But I dropped a book in the notes doc that we have, and this is the one that I keep remembering: it’s Sophie Jordan’s The Duke Starts a Scandal, and the woman has this dude shirtless and pressed up against a wall, so.

Sarah: I hate the expression on their faces, and I think this is –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Photoshopped badly, but the pose is so hot. Yes. It is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – mm-hmm. Yep! Also, he’s the new Duke of Penning, and every time I see that summary I think he’s the Duke of Pining, and I’m like, I, what, what do you mean? Is there a contest called Best Pine?

Page 20 is about 1001 Dark Nights, and this article, if you are going to get the full PDF, take a moment to read this article, because it’s really interesting, because what they’re talking about is basically marketing. They reached out to specific authors by invitation only to be part of 1001 Dark Nights. They would release continuation novels in existing series, but the authors that they had were impressive: it was Heather Graham, Shayla Black, Lexi Blake, Donna Grant, Lorelei James, Tessa Bailey, Cherise Sinclair, a lot of bigger names at this time, and what they were doing was working together to market collectively. So you, they would do a novella, and then they’d do a collection. So you, you’d be working and promoting different authors, including, like, you know, Carrie Ann Ryan and Jennifer Probst – like, big names. I think this is a really smart concept, and I’m not surprised that it was successful for, for so long.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This was an interesting behind-the-scenes peek at what it was like to run a very specific publishing house with a very specific type of product. I think it’s really neat.

Amanda: Well, it also reminds me of, there’s an author, is it Zen Cho? I think it might be Zen Cho who writes, like, fanfic novellas of their own books and puts them on AO3. Like, little in-between scenes.

Sarah: Oh, that’s so smart!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That is really, really smart.

Page 35.

Amanda: Yeah. So there, there’s a giant ad on page 35. It’s New Reads from Your Favorite Authors, and there is a cover – I believe this is for Loveswept – for a book called Stacked Up in like the third-ish row down?

Sarah: Mm-hmm! Sidney Halston.

Amanda: Yeah. This guy looks like he has been pumped full of too much helium and is about to explode.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: His –

Sarah: [Still laughing]

Amanda: – pecs and traps and shoulders –

Sarah: He’s a –

Amanda: – very, very big.

Sarah: He’s a triangle.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: This, this man just doesn’t have, he doesn’t have just the, the cobra body that people are after, like the cobra body –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – he’s an actual fucking triangle.

Amanda: Yeah. But he looks like he’s just been pumped full of lots of helium, and they –

Sarah: He is a bit inflated.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: This is also an era where if you’re looking at the magazine you will see this as well: this was an era when the cover style was big word, bold, in a san serif font; another word in a script font; father, followed by the author’s name in a san serif font across the bottom. Like, it was al- – look at how many script and serif, script and san serif; they’re all like this. It’s really wild.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: On page 58, in the centerfold, yet again, Christine Feehan is here for us. She has a two-page centerfold spread, and one of the pictures is – this is kind of wild – it is a woman, she is wearing folded-up denim capris, striped socks, and combat boots? Hiking boots? She has on a crop top with no sleeves, a backwards hat, and a full belt of the biggest bullets you’ve ever seen in your life, and she is holding a sharpshooter rifle and aiming it out the window with a full scope and everything. Like, she is about to take someone out – [laughs] – and then the subtext is Sisters of the Heart! Nothing says sisters of the heart like a sharpshooter, right?

Amanda: But also, the gun has a magazine.

Sarah: Yeah, it has a big one, too, yeah.

Amanda: But then she has a belt of bullets.

Sarah: Well, I mean, how else are you going to know she’s a badass except to see extra bullets – [laughs] – as an accessory?

Amanda: And I don’t, I don’t know if those are, like, shotgun shells or not? I can’t tell, but I don’t think those belong in that gun.

Sarah: I mean, those bullets look like miniature cigars.

Amanda: So what are they for?

Sarah: Accessorizing!

Amanda: Why do you have them? [Laughs]

Sarah: The Sisters of the Heart have bullet accessories, apparently?

Amanda: But, like, also, rolling your pants up so they’re like jean capris? I don’t know. This is, this is not –

Sarah: The stripe –

Amanda: – a fashion forward look for me.

Sarah: The striped socks are just awesome, though. Like, the, I don’t know if this was a photo shoot just for Christine or if this was a stock image? Very curious about the stock image collection.

Amanda: So in fairness, I haven’t read these books, Water Bound, Spirit Bound, Air Bound, and Earth Bound? But I don’t – I remember reading some of the descriptions, but I don’t remember any of the women sort of embodying the woman in the ad.

Sarah: There are no sharpshooters and assassins? Amanda, look in her back pocket: she has a flask. There is a flask in her back pocket. This is such a weird image!

Amanda: Yeah! Were any of the women in this series, like, you know, mercenaries or whatever?

Sarah: Sharpshooters? No idea. But this is just such a wild image. However, it is much more interesting to me to look at this image than any of the Photoshopped animals or women with dragon scales on their cheekbones. Like, this is an interesting image; it has nothing to do with this series, as far as I can tell –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – but wow.

Amanda: I don’t know!

Sarah: Very wild.

Amanda: Weird!

Sarah: Very weird.

On page 61, we need to talk about this. It’s a full page of mysteries. I believe that these are all ads placed by the authors, because at the bottom of each book is the author website, so I think the authors participated in this? But I invite you to tag yourself, because there are many – and I do mean many – pun mystery titles. These are all mysteries; they are, most of them are punny. I read some of these aloud to Adam, and he was like, You need to stop now.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So tag yourself! Which one are you?

Amanda: I’m really torn –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – between two.

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: One is probably obvious.

Sarah: I had a feeling.

Amanda: [Laughs] Do you want to guess?

Sarah: For Cheddar or Worse?

Amanda: That’s one of them, For Cheddar or Worse. It’s a –

Sarah: That is why I said in the document, Tag yourself, because I knew – like, oh! Well, there’s Amanda’s book!

Amanda: Yeah. It’s a Cheese Shop Mystery, but there’s one called Fixin’ to Die –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and I love the term fixin’ to?

Sarah: Oh, it’s so useful!

Amanda: And I grew up with it, so I have a soft spot for, like, I’m fixin’ to do whatever. This one isn’t as punny; the cover isn’t as interesting. It just has, like, a coffee cup with a skull and crossbones in, like, the milk in the coffee. But –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – I’m torn between Fixin’ to Die –

Sarah: Fixin’ to Die.

Amanda: – and For Cheddar or Worse, so maybe Fixin’ to Cheddar; we’ll just mash them together.

Sarah: For Cheddar or Death.

Amanda: [Laughs] For Cheddar or Death.

Sarah: I am torn as well. My heart truly belongs to Much Ado about Muffin.

Amanda: Yeah. Muffin’s got to be the cat.

Sarah: Muffin has to be the cat. This is, this is a –

>> – fresh mystery from the national bestselling author of Death of an English Muffin, when muffin baker Merry sees an innocent woman accused of murder, it’s dough or die.

Ah! [Laughs]

Amanda: What a niche baker. Like, I don’t bake anything else. I just bake muffins.

Sarah: This is one of those hallmarks of, of cute, contemporary mysteries and also cute, contemporary romances, where completely unviable businesses are just thriving, like a bakery that only makes muffins or a bakery that only makes cookies? It’s like, we took the cupcake bakery trend and the cake pop bakery trend and made it into some other baked goods.

So that’s the one that I do like, but I also am drawn to Crime and Poetry.

Amanda: Another cat! There’s –

Sarah: Another cat.

Amanda: – another cat on there.

Sarah: If you’re curious, some of the other titles include Berry the Hatchet, B-E-R-R-Y, takes place in Cranberry Cove; Braking for Bodies, but braking is like deceleration?

>> In the latest Cycle Path mystery, no one knows why Peephole Perry came to Mackinac, but things aren’t looking good for Evie’s friend when Peep is found dead.

Why is there a man called Peephole Perry? What is happening here?

Amanda: I mean, it sounds like Peephole Perry should probably be dead.

Sarah: Yes, it sounds like this was a good choice. There’s also Guilty as Cinnamon and Shards of Murder, which takes place at a glassmaking competition.

Amanda: There’s also Downton Tabby.

Sarah: Yes! Downton Tabby: tea and crumpets and murder, anyone?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I hope that you would read the Cheese Shop murders, because there’s another book in that series called As Gouda as Dead.

Amanda: I think we talked about that.

Sarah: I think we did too; it’s ringing a bell. But the, the, the punny, the punny mystery names are never going to die, and I confess to loving them very much. Much Ado about Muffin.

Amanda: How, how many books do you think exist in the Cheese Shop Mystery series?

Sarah: Did you look it up?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I’m going to say four.

Amanda: Seven.

Sarah: Damn! That is a big series.

Amanda: For Cheddar or Worse appears to be the last one. So I don’t know why the author gave up on Cheese Shop Mystery.

Sarah: >> In the new Cheese Shop Mystery from Agatha award-winning author of As Gouda as Dead, an extra-sharp-tongued cheese critic –

Again, who makes their living as a cheese critic? Is that a job that you could have?

Amanda: I would love that job.

Sarah: Right? Like, just all you do is eat cheese. During a summer cheese festival, the sharp-tongued cheese critic is murdered, and the book comes with recipes. Like, to make your own cheese? Or is stuff to do with cheese?

Amanda: I don’t know! It also looks like the author rebranded?

Sarah: Makes sense.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, so Avery Aames does the Cheese Shop Mystery, but it sounds like she has other cozy mysteries under Daryl Wood Gerber –

Sarah: Mm.

Amanda: – as a pseudonym.

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: But where, I want more cheese shop! Why only seven books?

Sarah: Maybe this is, maybe this is the series that you need to write.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Cheese fantasy.

Amanda: [Laughs more] Cheese fantasy!

Sarah: Romanti-cheese. I think you could make that happen.

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: On page 83 there is an ad, and I just want to read this ad to you, because it’s so Goddamn funny.

>> It Could Be Your Face on the Cover of a Romance Novel.

Amanda: No, thank you!

Sarah: Details at www.YourFaceOnARomanceNovel.com! [Laughs]

Amanda: This is how you get traffic is…

Sarah: If you, it’s only fifteen dollars to enter, and if you win you get airfare, hotel, makeover, photo shoot, and more.

Amanda: What’s more?

Sarah: What, what –

Amanda: What’s – [laughs]

Sarah: YourFaceOnARomanceNovel.com no longer exists. But –

Amanda: Oh darn.

Sarah: – was this like – and there’s a bunch of Shirley Hailstock novels on the display, so, like, is this a Shirley Hailstock contest? Was she running this? It, this is so funny to me.

Amanda: There’s no information. There’s no info of, like –

Sarah: Nothing.

Amanda: – who’s sponsoring this. Like –

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: – who is this ad from?

Sarah: It Could Be Your Face on the Cover of a Romance Novel. Details at YourFaceOnARomanceNovel.com. Like, that’s a very circ-, circular message there. Amazing.

And then on page 85 there’s a quarter-page ad for an Anna Todd app. Download the Anna Todd app, a dual venture of Wattpad and Gallery, which is part of Simon & Schuster. Celebrity encounters starring you!

Amanda: Yeah. So I, I think they were all written in second person –

Sarah: Mmehh!

Amanda: – if I remember correctly? It’s been so long. I remember I was sent this book as, like, an ARC. But yeah –

Sarah: Imagines?

Amanda: – look, Anna Todd got started for writing, what, One Direction –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – fanfic?

Sarah: Yeah! It, it became a whole thing. Like, it was a movie, and the book was huge. I remember talking to one of the editors at Simon & Schuster about Anna Todd, and she was –

Amanda: Ely-, Elyse reviewed this.

Sarah: – she was so famous that when she went abroad she needed a whole security team because people were trying to, like, find her and get to her. So Elyse reviewed this in 2016 and gave it a C?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It is a giant-ass book of Real Person Fiction by a variety of Wattpad authors. Number one –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – It’s a little unsettling for me to read about a real person by a character –

Amanda: Just wait! Just wait till you get to the bottom.

Sarah: >> Number two: I’m really fucking old, because I don’t know who half these people are.

[Shrieks] Amanda, what were you doing?

Amanda: I don’t, look, I don’t remember doing that, but it is something I would do.

Sarah: >> Amanda Photoshopped Elyse’s face on a picture next to Justin Bieber.

[Laughs]

Amanda: [Sighs]

Sarah: >> There’s this chapter where Justin designs romantic scavenger hunts for you. I would literally rather have a Pap smear every single day for the rest of my life than go on a romantic scavenger hunt with Justin Bieber.

[Laughs]

Amanda: Ugh.

Sarah: >> Why would you turn presents into work?

[Laughs] Oh my God! We will link to this. What a treasure, oh my God.

But a whole anthology about Real People Fiction, self-insert Real People Fiction. I know that there is an audience for this. I am glad that this audience is being served. I am so far from being in that audience, the idea of it makes my skin crawl.

Skipping ahead to page 115, it’s time for RT Review Source, the digital extra sup-, supplement where self-published authors and other folks pay to have their books and stuff discussed in the section. All of this is paid placement. I just wanted to call out, in the bottom left corner, a new book by Cindy Sample, Dying for a Donut. I am at all times in my life dying for a doughnut. Me too, all the – if you offer me a doughnut, the answer is yes. I fucking love doughnuts.

Amanda: Can’t remember the last time I had a doughnut. Well, that’s not true. [Laughs] That’s not true. So I asked Brian, Brian was going to Dunks, and I asked for a doughnut, any kind, whatever. I was like, You know, I’ll eat any doughnut, but I don’t love a Boston cream doughnut. Like, I just don’t love it; they’re not my favorite. So Brian goes, gets me a doughnut, it’s lovely. He got a blueberry glazed: good choice.

Sarah: Ooh, those are good…

Amanda: And like a week later, whenever Brian stops into a grocery store or whatever I’m like, Just get me a little sweet treat –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – always.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: So Brian comes back, and – [laughs] – he gives me a six pack of Boston cream doughnuts –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – because he’s like, Oh, I remember saying you liked these, and I was like, No! I said the opposite. I said, Get me any doughnut but a Boston cream, because they’re my least favorite! [Laughs]

Sarah: Nooo! They must have felt so terrible!

Amanda: I ate them anyway. Like, look, I’ll eat them. A doughnut’s a doughnut.

Sarah: A doughnut is a doughnut.

Amanda: It’s just so funny that they heard Boston cream come out of my mouth, and then –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – they were like, Oh yeah, that’s the one she likes, right? [Laughs]

Sarah: Nope! That’s very funny.

We also have yet another Digital Extra Industry News Roundup where none of the links work?

Amanda: This one’s weird.

Sarah: This one was weird. None of the links work. I couldn’t tell what they were linking to. It’s all very vague. I, oh, I just had bad flashbacks. I caught something in the lower left corner. Hoo boy! Books and –

>> Barnes & Noble Booksellers has ended its affiliate relationship with Rakuten linkshare and has moved to Commission Junction by Conversant. All B&N affiliate links stopped working on December 31st, 2015. If you haven’t already done so, authors need to switch to the new system and reapply to become affiliates.

And this was back in the day where book buyers for Barnes & Noble would look at author websites, and if they didn’t link to Barnes & Noble they wouldn’t buy much or any of their books. If they only linked to Amazon, Barnes & Noble would be like, Well, why are we stocking you if you don’t link to us? And that was a – the, the idea that you would go and look at the author websites and, like, fact check that is wild to me, but I remember that this was a massive controversy, because, okay, you switched programs; we have to reapply; I’m still waiting to get, you know, approved; and you might judge my book about stocking it in your stores because you switched programs and I’m not in it yet. It was a big mess. I remember that was a large, large pain in the ass, definitely for me. That was, that was ten years after the site had begun. We had some B&N links. They –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – are probably dead now. I am not, I’m not arsed to fix them.

Also, at this point, the latest author earnings report, from where we don’t know. From what source? No idea. It’s linked: We highly recommend that authors read the entire report. Is it linked? No. So I don’t know the source on this, but allegedly indies have forty-five percent of the eBook market on Amazon, with big five now accounting for less than twenty-five percent.

Amanda: Curious what those number look like now.

Sarah: Yeah, right? And what was the source of this? Who wrote the report? Are you going to say? No. That’s fine.

What –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: What did you notice on this page? There’s so much to talk about.

Amanda: …so silly that they have a section on this Industry News Roundup – [laughs] – devoted to making sure that you’re copying and pasting your Amazon book page correctly.

Sarah: I remember people talking about this at the time, and people still do this incorrectly. I’m forever cleaning up people’s links that they send me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Basically, everything after the ten-character ASIN number is additional data about the search and possibly the user. It’s coded data about what brought that person to that page at that time. So if you copy that link and start using it to distribute to other people or putting it in social media posts, everyone who accesses that link, it may be read as just one search, not multiple people, because it’s coded to one individual, where they came from, what they were looking for. So you have to delete everything after the ten-character number, and if you would like an example of how to do that correctly, you can go check out this great article, but it’s not linked to, so I’m just telling you…

Amanda: And also when we talk about the Amazon ASIN number –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – I always pronounce it ass-in.

Sarah: It is an ass-in number. It is an ASIN –

Amanda: The Amazon ASIN number.

Sarah: ASIN. What’s the ASIN? We do a lot with the ASIN.

On page 127 there is a whole page of – or actually a couple pages – of highly recommended indie novels. So different bloggers are talking about indie novels that they like. They each wrote a little paragraph about it, and I am wondering if any of those bloggers were paid.

Amanda: My guess is no.

Sarah: I’m going to guess no. I don’t remember – I know we talked about this, but not only do I remem-, not remember things well, but this is numbers – I remember we talked about how much it was to be featured in this, and it was not cheap.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: On page 136 is where they start the “reviews,” and I say that in quotes because these reviews are paid placement. The amount that was charged to the author was substantially more than the amount that the reviewer was paid, and that sucks.

There’s an article on street teams, and –

Amanda: They still exist, street teams. [Laughs]

Sarah: They still exist, but this was something that was very, very quickly co-opted by white authors. Street teams are from hip-hop community. One of the earliest people to create a street team for their books was L. A. Banks, and that was organic out of her fans, who were already on street teams for different hip-hop and rap artists. So they came to her and were like, We’re your street team! And she’s like, What the hell are you talking about? I was on a panel with her when she talked about this. She died several years ago. Also, terrific author; if you’ve never read L. A. Banks, it is very, very specific. Like, do you know how Shelly Laurenston has a very specific voice and you know instantly you’re reading a Shelly Laurenston book? Same thing with L. A. Banks.

There’s a whole article about street teams here, and there’s an article explaining what street teams do, and this is fucked, basically. So here – first: La Sheera’s Tips – this is by La Sheera Lee, founder of The Round Table Readers Book Club and Read You Later Communications. Her tips for creating an excellent street team:

>> 1. Define your purpose. Create a vision that is based on your principles and characters.

>> Number 2. Establish rules for team members.

No further context.

>> 3. Select team members with care. Don’t get so entranced by numbers that you compromise your team. Remember the overall goal is to network and promote books.

I am still very unclear as to what we’re talking about here.

>> Number 4. Regroup if necessary. If at first you don’t succeed, try again. Positive attributes can’t shine in messy environments.

What does that mean? Do you understand what you’re being told to do? I do not.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Here’s the part that sent my eyebrows straight up into my hairline. La Sheera’s writing about different street teams for different authors that have worked really well. For example:

>> Deborah Fletcher Mello, author of Guilty Pleasures, was hesitant to start a street team, but she was coerced by two superfans, who felt she needed a boost and wanted to take responsibility off her busy writing hands. Since creating Deborah’s Diamonds Street Team, she has learned the importance and vitality that street teams can bring to the world of publishing.

Now, here’s the part that absolutely blew my mind:

>> The team not only helps promote her books, but was instrumental in the implementation of Deborah’s first literary tea, held in Durham, North Carolina. They handled registration, hosting, greeting, assisting authors, setting up tables, and creating the souvenir booklets. In short, Deborah’s Diamonds proved invaluable during the entire event planning process. Deborah credits the street team for making the organization and flow of the event a huge success for all.

My understanding of street teams is these are not paid. These are not paid positions, so this is fans –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – doing this for you. You are just really lucky if your superfans can organize an event. That is two separate – being a superfan of something and organizing an event are two separate things, and I’m just really shocked that it’s like, This is great! You should demand copious amounts of unpaid labor from your fans to advance your career! Are you joking?! This just gets my back up. Not only – I mean, I’m, I’m very grateful that the person writing about this is a Black woman, because this is from a very specific marketing community, and, like, local and smaller artists were not getting the same marketing support, so you needed local people to be like, Hey, put the posters up all over the place; you know, talk about the event; put up flyers; whatever? That is an enormous amount of unpaid labor, to host, greet, organize, set up, and, and network a whole tea with multiple authors? For free?

Amanda: I feel like a lot of book marketing in general, outside of the publishing house, is built on free labor. Like, we see, like, BookTok-ers, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Who don’t want to be critical of books, because they might lose their access –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – to free books to then talk about, and it takes a long time to actually get paid to promote books or talk about books. Like, ARCs are not going to pay your bills.

Sarah: You can’t, I can’t pay my mortgage with ARCs, but also just reading the book is several hours of labor. Then writing a review? The idea of having to set up an entire event for free and being like, This is great; these people are my superfans – I’m like, this is an extractive relationship, and I’m deeply uncomfortable with the degree to which this is being promoted as, you know, people who really love you will boost your career. That’s gross! This also led to a lot of authors not wanting to pay their assistants in money. I remember being at a panel at an RT and talking about virtual assistants – I think you were on this panel, or you were there, and we were talking about how –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – you know, when I brought you on as my assistant, we had a very specific, like, list of tasks, and how did we divide the labor, and I remember saying, You need to pay your assistant. This is not a job that you should be getting candy or free books? You need to be paid for your time and labor. And two assistants came up to me afterward and were like, Thank you so much. We try to keep our rates reasonable, and authors tell us that they don’t want to pay, and wouldn’t we like swag instead?

Amanda: Well, there was a recent, like, street team kerfuffle recently, because –

Sarah: Oh really!

Amanda: – yeah, so Scarlett St. Clair just came out with Terror at the Gates, and Scarlett St. Clair I believe started off in the indie pub, self-pubbed, was not at a major publishing house, but Terror at the Gates came out of, I think, Bloom?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Or some part of Sourcebooks. And her street team were really upset because they assumed, or maybe were even told wrongly, that because they were Scarlett’s street team that they would get access to digital ARCs of Terror at the Gates –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – and they did not, and they were really upset that they didn’t get them.

Sarah: Yikes!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The last co-, the last page of the magazine, the back cover, is an ad for a book, and I just want to tell you the title of the book, because it’s great. It’s Kill or Be Kilt. K-I- –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – L-T. And it’s by Victoria Roberts. This guy has big pecs, big abs. His abdomen is kind of smiling at you. There’s a little crease with his nipples; looks like it’s grinning. He looks intense. He’s got long hair. He’s got a big, big, big, big sword and an equally big belt on his kilt, but it’s Kill or Be Kilt, and, you know, I do love a bad pun.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So what did you think of this one? What – I know you said it was a little boring. I think as, I, I agree. This was, this was clearly an era when romance was publishing stuff where I was like, Eh.

Amanda: Yeah! Definitely a little snoozy for sure.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: There were some, I agree with you that the ads and features were way more interesting than the reviews this time around?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: Even if just a surface look at a weird little time capsule of, like, you know, marketing to millennials and Gen X-ers or –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – us, us revisiting the Imagines review by Elyse – I totally forgot that I worked some Photoshop magic to put her face next to Justin Bieber?

Sarah: And it’s frigging hilarious is what it is.

Amanda: [Laughs] So I always like an issue where we already have content on the site that –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – sort of coincides, especially if it’s around the same time period? That’s really fun?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: But I agree that the ads and features were way more compelling for this one.

Sarah: It was, it was a time when romance, what was popular in romance was not so much interesting to me, and the trends that were being explored and talked about were, you know, I mean, it was okay. But, like, I was not as into these things. And it was, it was, and as you noted, it was clearly a period of transition, ‘cause there’s like a handful of paranormals and two full pages of this quiz with miles of empty white space.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And they were like, Charlaine! Charlaine Harris, we need an ad for this page. Would you buy an ad for your book? We’ll put it here! [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, I was like, Why don’t you just cut it out? Like, why did you stick a weird quiz there? But –

Sarah: Oh, it was so weird.

Thank you for recapping this with me!

Amanda: You’re welcome!

Sarah: I am super, super happy we did this one, and I’m looking forward to sharing it with people.

Amanda: Yay!

Sarah: Thank you again!

Amanda: Thank you!

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you, as always, to Amanda for hosting these with me. They are delightful! Thank you for telling me how much you enjoy them. It’s really lovely to hear how much you enjoy the RT Rewind episodes, because we love doing them.

I will have links to everything we talked about in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 689, and I will have links to the reviews we discussed, including the one that has – [laughs] – some incredible Photoshop from Amanda.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. This joke comes from Italapas.

Do you know why koi fish are always traveling in groups of four? No?

Why do koi fish always travel in groups of four?

Well, if they’re attacked, koi A, B, and C will scatter, leaving behind the D koi.

[Laughs] Thank you, Italapas, for that incredible joke.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we’ll see you back here next week. And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking!

[end of music]