685. RT Rewind: August 1996 Ads & Features

Sarah Wendell: Last week I shared that a listener had contacted me to let me know that an ad for ICE had run before the start of my show and that they were very upset about it, and I too was really, really mad. These ads are called dynamic insertion. They are added to the file at the moment you download it by the digital host and distributor of the podcast. I do not control dynamic ads, but I have asked the host many times for certain categories to be blocked. The short answer as to why this is happening and why you might see ads for ICE everywhere is that right-wing grift is really well-funded and profitable, and being complacent and letting ads like these run means more money for the creator – that’s me – and the platform, Acast, that serves these ads. The spend on these tops twenty billion dollars, and they come with a higher percentage of revenue for creators than non-political campaigns. In other words, they’re really profitable, and companies want to run them.

I have asked Acast, my podcast host, repeatedly to block all political ads. Maybe this time it will stick. But I would like to turn them all off. And as I said last week, if you have been thinking of joining the Patreon, now is a terrific time. I make about two hundred dollars a month from these ads from Acast, and if I can gather enough new Patreon memberships I can turn them all off! That money would go towards paying Acast for hosting and distribution, paying for transcripts from garlicknitter, and keep me going week after week. Basically, it’s like buying me one nice cocktail a month.

And I have an update! Our last episode was September 12th, and as of Wednesday, September 17th, we have six new members! And an increase of thirty-five dollars a month, well on our way to two hundred, which is when I will get rid of all the pre and post show dynamic ads. That is awesome. Thank you.

I would love to have you join our Patreon community. If you have not yet, you get great benefits, like the full issue of RT Magazine, a truly wonderful Discord, bonus and extended episodes, and the chance to be in our end-of-year holiday wishes episodes. Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

Thank you again to that listener for letting me know what was happening, and thank you for your understanding and your support.

[music]

Sarah: Hello there! Welcome to episode number 685 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and we are back in the time machine. It’s the ‘90s now, and the ads and features from the August 1996 issue of Romantic Times are a treasure trove of confusion. We have got a tour of Jude Deveraux’s grade II listed home in Suffolk, the question of how an emoji face should be written – nose or no nose? – what is the appeal of nursing-him-back-to-health plots, and RT is going to answer the eternal question that has plagued womankind throughout the ages! I’m not even kidding; it’s a doozy.

The visual aids for this post will be at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode number 685, and they are also terrific.

Patreon folks! Special announcement: you are getting an extended cut of this episode with a lot of extras, so your file is longer by a little bit over half an hour.

And speaking of Patreon, I have a compliment this week.

To Amanda M.: Your thoughtful and curious way of seeing the world, both the things that you react to with wonder and the things that you react to with WTF, is inspiring to so many people. You are clever, screamingly intelligent, and really freaking funny, and we are lucky to have your observations of the world.

The Patreon community keeps me going, they help me make sure that every episode has an artisan transcript handcrafted by garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! – [Hey! – gk] – and your support, if you listened to the intro, means a lot right now. If you’d like to join, patreon.com/SmartBitches.

And if Patreon support is not in the cards, may I please ask that you leave a review where you listen or just tell some people. Most of all, as always, thank you for listening. I’m really happy you’re here.

Support for this episode comes from Skims, who want me to talk about my favorite bra, and that is absolutely not a problem. The Fits Everybody T-shirt bra rules. I know you’ve heard me say this before; it is still true: I did not think that I could ask for more than Yeah, it mostly fits with a bra, but it turn out I was wrong. I don’t have to put up with any bra that is itching, pulling, pinching, ride up – riding up – slipping off my shoulders, or, you know, when it pops an underwire and stabs you, usually at a pont, point where – or, you know, when it pops an underwire and stabs you at a point where you can’t actually do anything about it? That is the worst. I want all my bras to be like the Fits Everybody T-shirt bra, honestly. I reach for it all the time. I was sad when I handwashed it and it had to dry, because I love it so much. It is comfortable, it is soft, it is not bulky, it offers the exact right amount of support, it’s smooth under my clothing, and once I put it on I forget I have it on because it is so comfortable. I love traveling with it too, because it is very lightweight. My favorite part about the Fits Everybody T-shirt bra is that it comes in a wide range of sizes and skin tones, so if I’m wearing a thin top or, you know, that one shirt I should probably throw away, but I still haven’t, it blends in perfectly; nothing shows. I actually look forward to wearing it, which is not a thing I expected. And now that I’ve tried both the ultimate pushup bra and the Fits Everybody T-shirt bra, I’ve been telling everybody about Skims bras, even my poor neighbors. You can shop my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you place your order, please be sure to let them know that I sent you. Select Podcasts in the survey and be sure to select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. Or visit skims.com/SARAH. Thank you to Skims for supporting this episode, and thank you for supporting our advertisers.

I will have links to everything that we talk about in this episode, and I will have links to some of the things that we found on eBay! I would just like to thank my favorite eBay seller for having every single historical romance novel that I look for, always on the same lace tablecloth. You are a hero.

Are you ready to go back in time to August 1996? Let’s do this. On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: So we’re back with the ads and features of Romantic Times Magazine, August 1996. This is issue 149, and the cover is Live, Laugh, Love!

Amanda: Live, Laugh, Love.

Sarah: Love & Laughter. So this whole cover is launching the new Harlequin line, and then I realized that you could probably get really, really drunk playing a drinking game of can you name a defunct Harlequin publishing line –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – without repeating?

Amanda: Yeah, you have to keep going back and forth.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But I also want to point out, why are the covers so small? Like, you’re launching –

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: – a line, and the biggest thing here is on the banner? Like, the covers are less than a quarter of the visual retail, re-, real estate.

Amanda: Yeah. I have no clue why – [laughs] – why it’s like that! But the, the covers, one is Five’s a Crowd by Kasey Michaels, and the other is Dates and Other Nuts by Lori Copeland, and I – dates aren’t nuts.

Sarah: Wait, really?

Amanda: Yeah, they’re a fruit.

Sarah: [Laughs] I always, I just took it as like, All right, I guess they’re fruits; I didn’t – or, I guess they’re nuts; I thought they were fruits, but I didn’t know that. That’s funny.

Amanda: Yeah, dates aren’t nuts, so – I get what they’re trying to do, but yeah.

Sarah: So this series began in August 1996, so they are launching it. One of the September ‘96 titles is Anyone But You by Jennifer Crusie.

Amanda: Oh wow.

Sarah: Yeah, and it seems like this ran until, there were sixty books; it ran till April 1999. So we got three years out of this one, which is probably average for a Harlequin line that they start and stop? Like, gosh, how many? There was Luna, there was Silhouette Bombshell, there was Blaze; there were all these good – yep, all right. Harlequin does this a lot.

But Dates and Other Nuts? Sure!

Amanda: Why not?

Sarah: Why not?

Amanda: They look like they’re having a good time!

Sarah: They do look like they’re having a good time. And you remember when, when the, when the bullet journal craze was really going and there were all these tutorials on how to draw these folded ribbons for, like, title heads? All I can think of is, Oh, I know how to draw that Love & Laughter ribbon, ‘cause I watched a tutorial –

[Laughter]

Sarah: – on Instagram!

And then on page 2 we have a full-page ad for Amanda Ashley, Deeper Than the Night. This is a Pino illustration – you can tell, because right next to her butt it says Pino – and also she’s wearing a very short skirt? This is no judgment; I’m just saying that skort, skirt is objectively quite short.

Amanda: Yeah! I also don’t know from looking at this, like, what the time period is supposed to be? ‘Cause he is in like historical vampire garb –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – and she is in like, you know, waitress garb.

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: So I don’t know what’s going on here.

Sarah: She’s, she’s wearing a very short, black skirt that actually looks like it’s an A-line, so it’s, like, moving away from her body, and then a blouse, but they are both – I am very impressed – both of them have white blouses or shirts on that are unbuttoned but still tucked in.

Amanda: Good for them!

Sarah: It’s, it’s good to have parity. So I had to look this up: a love deeper than the night; there’s all of these things in the cover copy here about, you know, superstitious talk and creatures in the dark. Is this, is, is this guy a vampire? Yes. Yes, he is.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: But I should have known by the collar on his cape.

[Laughter]

Sarah: It’s standing up, and it’s like a foot tall!

Amanda: Yeah, it is –

Sarah: …cape here.

Amanda: – it’s like a dog cone.

Sarah: Yes, thank you! Yes.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: He just got neutered, and it’s not a good time.

Amanda: It’s exactly like a dog cone.

Sarah: Wow. Love it. Love it, love it. I love – and I’m sure the stepback is great for this one.

Amanda: [Laughs] Did you see his back?

Sarah: Oh, wow! Yep, there’s alien forms in it, as usual. Well done.

Amanda: Yeah, you see his back. Yeah.

Sarah: Are they in some, are they in some glowing purple water? Are they in water? A lot of people in historical romance send – actually this would probably be contemporary or paranormal stepbacks – they’re always fucking in water, and I don’t understand how they do this!

Amanda: I’m sure we could find the stepback.

Sarah: I just want to thank my favorite eBay seller who always lists a lot of classic old historicals, and they’re all against the same lace tablecloth, and I just want to say that I appreciate you. So what is this?

Amanda: [Laughs] We admire the consistency.

Sarah: Deeper Than the Night, Amanda Ashley. Well, you know. Truth about Amanda is that she’s intrepid as ever, so…

Amanda: I’m intrepid, yeah.

Sarah: Intrepid as ever. All right, please tell me you’re going to show me pictures of the stepback. Nope! All right, I give up on my stepback hunt. There is no stepback visual.

Amanda: Hmm.

Sarah: However, in the first week of October, and I’m going to put up a post about this on Patreon and also on the site, the first weekend of October is the Denton Jazz Fest, and in Denton is one of the greatest used bookstores of romance I’ve ever seen –

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: – in my life. It is like a museum; it is multiple shelves. So I am going to ask people to tell me what absolutely bonkers classic romances should I be shopping for, because I’m going to bring, like I did with RT, I’m going to bling, bring a pre-stamped, large Priority Mail box and fill it with paperbacks. I might even bring, bring, buy two. Like, I might even fill two.

Amanda: I, okay, so I have an idea, and I don’t know how we can work it to our advantage, but, like, maybe people sign up for a thing or whatever, do a raffle, and you get a mystery –

Sarah: Classic romance?

Amanda: – Old School paperback, yeah.

Sarah: I would one hundred percent do that. Would you like a completely random, over-the-top, like, Old School, literal bodices are ripping on the cover, enter here and we’ll send you one? Absolutely. The self-addressed, stamped envelopes for the twentieth anniversary sticker is going really well! People send me really nice notes. Look! I got, like –

Amanda: That’s so sweet!

Sarah: I got little thank-you cards!

>> Thank you for all the recs and fun over the years. You’re always a bright spot of my scrolling time. All the best. Congrats on twenty years!

It’s, this is actually, I was not expecting this. But yes, I should definitely buy a whole bunch of histor-, of, of historicals and older books, ship them home, and then I’ll put up pictures and be like, All right, which one am I reading? And I’ll, I’ll try to read these crazy-ass books. The thing is –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I’m going to run out of room for, like, warnings about content?

[Laughter]

Sarah: Like, Just Assume It’s Bad is not quite enough a cover, but it is going to have to cover a lot.

Page 5 is the table of contents, and there’s a whole bunch of author profiles, which are basically like the author tells you about their book and then includes an expert, excerpt. It includes like Fern Michaels, and Nora Roberts has one this time. But over in the lower right corner, would you read what’s in the lower right corner, page 5?

Amanda: Oh boy. Which, which corner, the Columns?

Sarah: No, the, page 5, table of contents –

Amanda: Oh! Okay, got it. Yes.

Sarah: – the little picture of all those people in costumes.

Amanda: Yeah. Yes. It says:

>> Step back in time as the Southern Vintage musical ensemble recreates a 19th-century Old South Ball for an unforgettable evening at the Romantic Times convention in Baton Rouge.

Sarah: Ooh! Like, oooh! I just cringed all my skin right off my body. God! What, oh! Yikies! We’re going to hear more about that, but that’s, that’s what we’re doing in 1996, y’all! An Old South Ball!

Amanda: Also, Baton Rouge: that’s real poor taste.

Sarah: Just a little bit, yeah! Just a little bit.

And then we’ve got Flavia, and I apologize that this scanned in upside-down.

Amanda: It’s okay; I can rotate.

Sarah: You can rotate. So we have “Under the Covers with Flavia Knightsbridge,” and every single entry is unhinged.

Amanda: Well, we start with a – [laughs] – an Anne Rice photo. She’s with a dog.

Sarah: Next to an angel in a graveyard, dressed totally in black.

Amanda: Ad the dog is a Golden Retriever. [Laughs]

Sarah: It, it – that’s like a, that’s like a romance trope, right? The Gothic…

Amanda: Yeah, black cat, black cat, Golden Retriever!

Sarah: Yeah, there we go! This is very much a romance trope.

My favorite one here, so far on this, on this page – and there are many amazing things going on on this page –

Amanda: Is it the first one?

Sarah: I left that one for you ‘cause it’s just so insane.

>> Kathryn Falk has been signed by Crown Publishing to write a sequel to How to Write a Romance. Simultaneously, she will also do a second update of How to Write a Romance and Get It Published.

Amanda: The, wait, what, is there a sequel to How to Write a Romance and Get It Published if you’re already updating – [laughs]

Sarah: Aren’t they the same book?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: But apparently not.

>> As Lady Barrow, she will write the harrowing story of how she rescued her aging father from her estranged brother, a true story that exposes nationwide senior adult abuse.

I don’t think that story was written, ‘cause I looked and I did not see it, but that is quite a sentence.

You want to talk about –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – the, the – [laughs] – the critical companion, and it’s not the dog?

Amanda: Yeah! It’s not the dog. It says:

>> Attention, Anne Rice fans: in October, look for Anne Rice: A Critical Companion by Jennifer Smith, aka Jennifer Crusie, by Greenwood Press. This is an analysis of Rice’s vampire, mummy, and witch novels, discussing point of view choices, character, plot development, use of literary devices, and theme.

I didn’t know Jennifer Crusie had another pen name, but –

Sarah: That’s her real name.

Amanda: – I’m hope – I didn’t, like, maybe she’s a big Anne Rice fan!

Sarah: No, she was a scholar, she was in graduate school and was writing about romance novels and then quit to just start writing them. I don’t know if she ever finished her graduate program, but yeah.

Amanda: Crazy! I did not know the Jennifer Crusie origin story.

Sarah: A Critical Companion. It is available on eBay for seventy-nine dollars and eight-odd cents. Yeah, every listing on eBay is in the seventy-dollar range, so clearly this –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is an academic book. I bet it’s really good, though.

Then we have – you know, this is peak in the era of when RT really seemed invested in making romance authors out to be like wealthy celebrities? And I’m really wondering if that was Kathryn, who herself was wealthy and also a bit of a celebrity in this, in this sphere. I wonder if this was all just her seeing other authors as equal to her, and the way that you do that is talk about wealth and opulence? ‘Cause Kathryn talks –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – about that all the time?

>> Barbara Taylor Bradford has moved into a Sutton Place luxury apartment with a study overlooking New York City’s East River, which is nice if the bestselling author ever gets writer’s block, not that it’s likely. Her Own Rules, the last in her three-book, thirty-million-dollar contract with HarperCollins –

Amanda: That’s insane.

Sarah: >> – is climbing the bestseller list.

What the fuck?

Amanda: I mean, there are a few instances in this issue where, like, wealth is talked about. Like, there’s another one where an author is talking about, like, her seven-thousand-square-foot home being built or something like that.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: I’m like, Jesus!

Sarah: Yep. And Flavia’s column continues on page 7, and this entire page is bananas. On the lower right there’s a cover illustration:

>> Celebrity Topaz Man Michael O’Hearn makes his romance novel cover debut on Justine Dare’s Heart of the Hawk, due out in October 1996.

Amanda: Look at that hair.

Sarah: It’s such a mullet. And he’s even got, like, little curls in the front.

>> Michael is a bodybuilder and former Mr. America who won his third Mr. Universe title last December and who regularly appears as Thor on TV’s Gladiators.

Amanda: It always comes back to Gladiators.

Sarah: Honestly, it really, really does!

Okay, I don’t understand this stretch, but two things on this page we need to talk about. Number one:

>> Topaz author Margaret Brownley and Harlequin author Betty Duran, also known as Ruth Jane Dale – Ruth Jean Dale – visited the set of their favorite soap opera, As the World Turns, during a trip to New York City – [laughs] – and helped the cast celebrate the shows fortieth anniversary! Between Betty, who’s watched the show since the first episode, and Margaret, a fan of thirty-five years, the two have a combined total of forty published books, one for every year the soap has been on the air.

Why? What is this math, and why is this math?

Amanda: I mean, I get they’re looking at the Venn diagram of soap watchers and romance readers. [Laughs]

Sarah: Fair, but this is also like, Hey, we went on vacation and went to a soap taking, and here’s us with Bronson Picket, and they send their pictures to RT Magazine? Did they provide this –

Amanda: Is As the World Turns still on air?

Sarah: I have no idea. You –

Amanda: I’m going to google it.

Sarah: You look that up, and then I’m going to read the next one, ‘cause we need to have a serious discussion about your wedding planning here.

>> Diane Chamberlain was married on May 8th to David Heagy in Oakton, Virginia. Her wedding invitation, which resembled a romance book cover, states at the top “The Rogue and the Writer.” Within a circular inset, insert vignette is a pose of Diane leaning back against her fiancé, who’s wearing a pirate’s eyepatch. Inside is written “We enthusiastically invite you to our wedding to celebrate a new chapter in our lives.”

I need to know, what’s the romance cover of your wedding invitation? What’s the title? Is Brian going to wear an eyepatch? Like, I need to know the deets. What – actually, you know what? Listeners, this is what I want to ask you to do: I’m going to ask you for something, and it’s not a five-star review or, you know, join the Patreon; this is completely separate. I want you to write in or comment or just yell out the window – there’s many ways to reach us – tell us what the title of Amanda’s, Amanda and Brian’s romance novel book cover invitation should be. Would it be like “The ReyLo Nerd and the Programming Guy”? Is it –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – “Pink and Peach Meets –“

Amanda: I mean, we do have black cat/Golden Retriever energy, but I feel like Golden Retriever energy also, there’s like a little bit of, like, a himbo vibe? And that’s not Brian’s vibe.

Sarah: No, Brian’s very, very intelligent, and also pretty sharp and observant.

Amanda: Very anxious, so maybe like black cat/Italian Greyhound.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Perfect. Listeners, if you have suggestions for what Amanda’s invitation that looks like a romance novel cover should be titled, please get in touch, and maybe I will do some terrible Photoshop. I am going to this store to buy a bunch of covers; I can start shopping for the one that best resembles the two of you.

Amanda: As the World Turns went off the air in 2010.

Sarah: Oh goodness! It’s been a –

Amanda: After, after fifty-four years.

Sarah: Wow. It’s been a minute, huh?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I have to say, I kind of miss the Flavia Knightsbridge column when we’re looking at the, you know, 2000, 2010s. This is so unhinged. It’s so weird. It’s just, I just, I, I, the, the thing that it’s doing is so weird to me. It’s trying to make celebration, or make celebrities out of authors, constantly talking about wealth. It’s very weird. It’s like, I don’t get it.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So the letters to the editor are mostly about the tour of England that Romantic Times and Kathryn Falk arranged for a bunch of readers, and a lot of people are writing in about, like, their experience and how they had a great time and what happened. And then somebody got mad that the newsletter wasn’t in their box of Romantic Times, because there’s apparently supposed to be a bookseller newsletter as well, and this bookseller was very mad? And they’re like, basically, yeah, we received a lot of calls and letters about the absence of this newsletter. Kate Ryan was an organizer of the tour, and she didn’t have time. [Laughs] She’s working on the next one. How dare!

Amanda: Back to, like, wealth and stuff, they’ve got, part of this tour, they went to Jude Deveraux’s Queen Anne house and grounds.

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: And I think there’s more photos later on in the issue.

Sarah: There sure are. But listen to this account. Like – [sighs] – I’m going to read the letter. You should read the, the, the description of what happened with Jude Deveraux.

>> I couldn’t go to England, but please tell me everything you saw. Is Jude Deveraux living there permanently?

And this is from Fran Shaheen in Detroit, Michigan. The response is – you’re just not going to believe it.

Amanda: >> Jude is as happy as anyone would be undertaking the gargantuan task of restoring eleven and a half acres of grounds and a wonderful but long-neglected house, once a village rectory by the name of Ketton House. Gardeners work diligently clearing out deadwood, tending the orchard, and landscaping beautiful new walks and vistas. Especially memorable was the dovecote.

>> The Queen Anne house is being meticulously restored, and we arrived just as the parlor was being completed with light blue carpeting, elegant wallpaper, built-in cabinets on each side of the fireplace, and Regency striped drapes. A wonderful tea had been set up, and we were served a fabulous array, including delectable cucumber and watercress sandwiches, fresh little scones with clotted cream and jam, and amongst the sweets and delicate chocolates and raspberries were a rare treat: lemon meringues.

>> Jude had a stack of book covers to autograph for each visitor, and we all signed her guest book in the hallway. She couldn’t have been more hospitable, showing us all around the house. The top floor will eventually consist of guest rooms and an office. The third floor holds her beautiful bedroom with a four-poster bed and adjoining large mirrored dressing room.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: >> A book-lined library overlooks the garden parterre. The basement will eventually be Jude’s gymnasium.

Sarah: [Laughs more]

Amanda: >> We all admired her commitment to preserving all the original features. The author will continue to spend part of the year at her house in Virginia.

Sarah: As you do.

Amanda: Wowee.

Sarah: Moving on to page 9, more pictures of the Barrow village, ‘cause of course if Jude Deveraux, or excuse me, if Kathryn Falk is taking you on a tour of London you’re, or England, you’re going to see, like, her, her place.

>> Our photos are now in from the London tour, and we hope they will give you some idea of our wonderful experiencing, experience. Along with partying, we hit the flea markets with great passion. One of my finds was a set of Victorian bathroom faucets manufactured by Thomas Crapper; another was two steamer trunks from the ‘20s covered with great old labels. I also found more Chinese lotus shoes and photos and books on the rare subject of Chinese foot-binding. Meeting up with Anne Perry and Rosalind Laker was another treat.

Yep. So there you go. She’s got a tour of Scotland scheduled for May ’97. Down at the bottom is some very important information here. Amanda?

Amanda: I’m already, I’m already looking for it. And you can find a half-used bottle on eBay for a hundred bucks…

Sarah: If you click –

Amanda: – original packaging.

Sarah: If you click on the link in the, in the, in the document, I –

Amanda: You already found it? [Laughs]

Sarah: – I searched Barbara Cartland perfume on eBay, and you can look at all of them.

Amanda: Yes! Okay, so:

>> Dame Barbara Cartland Celebrates Her Ninety-Fifth Birthday with Scent of Romance

>> Barbara Cartland is marking her ninety-fifth birthday July 9th with a special perfume, Scent of Romance. “Any man would want to kiss a woman wearing this, but go no further,” she said.

[Laughs]

Sarah: But will go no further! [Laughs]

Amanda: >> Her classic –

[Laughs]

>> Her classic fragrance, created by the Perfumers Guild, will raise funds for Dame Barbara’s charities. Available only by mail order in England. Priced at £12.95 and approximately $17.95 US. It can be ordered from the US using VISA or MasterCard by fax.

Sarah: [Giggles]

Amanda: Or then you can place a telephone order. I looked up, like, what it’s supposed to smell like, and I found some stuff where it’s like, oh, like rose and violet, so it seems like it may be, it’s a very –

Together: – floral –

Amanda: – heavy. But it looks like there’s two different perfumes here!

Sarah: There’s a couple of them.

Amanda: Or multiple, yeah!

Sarah: There’s a couple. There’s –

Amanda: The packaging’s different.

Sarah: There’s Barbara Cartland, The Heart Triumphant: sixty-five dollars for what remains of a 1.5-ounce bottle, and you know that does not smell the way it’s supposed to, ‘cause perfume goes bad. Barbara Cartland, The Heart Triumphant for fifty-nine. Love Wins spray is a hundred and sixty. There’s another Heart Triumphant. Moments of Love is – hey, it’s red; the perfume is red; this is not great – Moments of Love, Barbara Cartland, is a hundred and fifty dollars, but I don’t see, The Heart Triumphs, Moments of Love, Moments of Love – what’s this one?

Amanda: This is supposed to be Scent of Romance.

Sarah: Yeah, I don’t see Scent of Romance!

Amanda: May-, maybe Scent of Romance is the collection?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: And these are individuals in the collection?

Sarah: Maybe: It says A special perfume, but that doesn’t mean they got the details right here.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I do not see – Barbara Cartland perfume scent of romance. Let’s see what happens if I search for it specifically. Nope! No, nothing found.

On page 10, I don’t, this is the cover story about Love & Laughter, The Perfect Marriage: some, like, you know, little bits of stuff from the books and the authors themselves. It starts off by trying to identify an eternal question, and I really need to know if this is the eternal question for you, Amanda:

>> You face the eternal question –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: >> – that has plagued womankind throughout the ages. You’re trapped on a desert island with one man. You choose (a) Sylvester Stallone, (b) Daniel Day Lewis, or (c) Tom Hanks.

[Laughs] That’s the eternal question? That’s it?

Amanda: I think mine would be Death.

Sarah: That, that’s the eternal question? Now, I could understand if you’re going to ask me, I’m trapped on a desert island, what book am I bringing? That is, like, the whole origin –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – of the desert island keepers from All About Romance. Like, this is a known quantity. What is this, this is the eternal question that’s plagued woman for, plain, plagued womankind throughout the ages, really?

Amanda: Well, this, this reminds me, was it, was it Joan Collins, who did that feature where, like, she’s imagining all these celebrities at her, like, perfect dinner party?

Sarah: That was Jackie Collins.

Amanda: Jackie.

Sarah: That was Jackie Collins –

Amanda: Yeah. This re- –

Sarah: – because she was like, I’m going to have, you know, like, Woody Allen was supposed to be there – bleah.

Amanda: That’s, this is what it reminds me of – [laughs] – is that. But also, like, if I had to pick one, I don’t know. Sylvester Stallone, automatically out. Daniel Day Lewis, I get the sense, I think I would find him exhausting.

Sarah: He does seem intense. Although I did recently hear that his son, I think, has written and directed a new movie, and they’re filming it, and he has come out of retirement to play a character in his kid’s film? Which I think –

Amanda: Well, if Daniel Day Lewis is your dad, you have to.

Sarah: Yeah, like, bro, you’ve got to get up off the couch, put the TV remote down. I need you to go play a recluse in the forest. Perfect! I’m on it. Let’s do it.

Amanda: You have to. And then Tom Hanks seems nice? But I also think I would get annoyed by him. He’s just so, like, affable and nice, that I feel like, we were trapped on a desert island, he would, like, hover. Like, he would annoy me –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – he’s like, Are you okay? Do you need anything? Like –

Sarah: You know, we don’t have any sunscreen; I’ll block, I’ll block the sun with my body.

Amanda: And I think I would just be like, Get away from me and just leave me alone. Like, I don’t, I’m, I get overstimulated – [laughs] – very, very easily? At the office I have this little acrylic stand with a frog in a cowboy suit –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – saying, hold on, Hold up, partner; I’m overstimulated.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And, like, that’s me. Like, if you’re asking me too many questions in a short time period –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – I’m going to get annoyed with you, and I think I’m just going to get annoyed – [laughs] – with Tom Hanks!

Sarah: You also noticed alternative romance on this page.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs] It caught me because – so it’s an article: “Alternative Romance: A Walk on the Wild Side.” So, and the pull quote at the top says:

>> Some readers won’t try “that stuff” because it’s too weird, but romance is thrilling when old boundaries are broken.

And I’m thinking –

Sarah: What?

Amanda: – nasty, freaky sex stuff, like non-vanilla stuff.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: But that is not what they’re talking about. They’re talking about exploring fantasy, futuristic, and paranormal romance!

Sarah: Wait a minute! Are you saying this is romantasy?

Amanda: And they, they start calling it – [laughs] – they start calling it FF&P romance.

Sarah: So fantasy, futuristic –

Amanda: Futuristic, yeah.

Sarah: – and paranormal. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That stuff, ‘cause it’s too weird! Oh my goodness.

Amanda: Yeah, I thought it would be like, you know, sexual stuff! But no, they’re just talking about FF&P, apparently.

Sarah: And if you’re, if you’re wondering what is FF&P, the writer of this article, Susan Krinard, has answered the question.

>> What is FF&P romance? It’s time travel, futuristic, fantasy, reincarnation, telepathy, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, warlocks, myth, magic, all combined with power love stories.

Wait, all of that in one book?

Amanda: Yeah, sure.

Sarah: Is going to be incredible. I’m here: tell me which one.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And then the other established authors that they mention are Jayne Ann Krentz, Elizabeth Lowell (same person) – I think they’re the same person, right? Yeah, they’re the same person – Linda Lael Miller, Nora Roberts as J. D. Robb, and Kristin Hannah. Things are very different now. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, ‘cause I was like, I don’t remember, off the top of my head, any FF&P books by Linda Lael Miller or Kristin Hannah.

Sarah: FF&P, incredible. FF&P.

Amanda: It sounds like you’re censoring a curse word. Like, You FF&P!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I’m going to use that on my cat the next time he’s a jerkwad: You FF&P! He’ll just look at me like, I’m perfect.

On the next page is a bunch of business buzz by Kathryn Falk, and it’s like, you know, people got hired or moved or got a contract, but the picture is of Martha Ingram, who assumed the leadership of Ingram Industries after her husband died, and she was Working Woman magazine’s, at the top of their list of women business owners, and there’s a picture of her. It’s a very standard, like, ‘90s business picture, right? She’s got a blow-out, she’s got pearls, she’s got a shell and a jacket. Would you please read the caption, ‘cause this is just appalling.

Amanda: >> The elegant Martha Ingram topped Working Woman magazine’s list of woman business owners.

Sarah: The elegant?

Amanda: Elegant.

Sarah: So she –

Amanda: And just woman business owners.

Sarah: Yep, okay. She’s a, she took over a company after her husband died, and she’s the largest shareholder and chairwoman, it’s an eleven-billion-dollar empire, her son’s the president, but what we want to talk about how she’s elegant.

Amanda: She’s elegant.

Sarah: What the, what the undermining, demeaning bullshit is this?

Amanda: I wish I knew.

Sarah: Do not know.

You are taking the next one, which is –

Amanda: [Laughs] House tour.

Sarah: [Gasps] House tour!

Amanda: Yeah! So pages 14, 15 of the PDF, they’re doing a, a house tour for Justine Davis, who has a beautiful car. I think it’s California, she lives in California, and then they have, the photo’s like an out-, an outside shot of the house, the kitchen, like a living room/media room, her sweet car – [laughs] – and then the, and then a bathtub. And the bathtub is a circle. It is very much of its time.

Sarah: It reminds me of the Poconos honey- –

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: – honeymoon places –

Amanda: [Laughs] Yep!

Sarah: – like champagne glass or heart – like, that tub is very, very –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And it’s round. Now, they –

Amanda: I love that tub.

Sarah: I have a large tub in my house. My house was built in ninety, 1995; I’ve never lived in a house younger than me before. It’s very cool.

Amanda: [Giggles]

Sarah: But it has a big tub, and apparently that was the style at the time; so big corner Jacuzzi tub. There is not a hot water heater in existence that will fill this tub. We asked, because our hot water heater died, and we’re like, Okay, we’ve got this big tub, and they’re like, You’re getting the largest water heater that’s available on the, you know, residential market. If you want something bigger you have to get a commercial hot water heater to fill the tub in my house.

Amanda: That’s a big tub.

Sarah: It’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a two-person tub, and it, when we redo our bathroom we’re like, No, we’re getting rid of this thing, because (a) it’s, you know, really old, and (b) it takes up the entire hot water heater!

Ooh, you’re up. What’s next?

Amanda: In the previous episode we talked about the reviews and the books, and none of them really grabbed me, but there, I mentioned that there might be one in ads and features. So this is an ad, page 19 of the PDF, for Andrea Kane’s Wishes in the Wind, which is book two in a series; book one was Echoes in the Mist. And what caught me was the quote at the top. It says:

>> A new jockey is riding the celebrated Epsom Derby, and the Marquis of Tyreham will do anything to win her heart.

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: And I was like, lady jockey!

Sarah: Lady jockey!

Amanda: Lady jockey! What’s going on? So it’s a historical romance, it looks like, set in 19th-century England, and the heroine is posing as a man to be a jockey in this derby. And I’m like, Interested! [Laughs] So.

Sarah: I loved that shit. I loved it so much. Oh, I loved, I loved the heroine in disguise books. Oh my God, I’m turning red just thinking about it.

I want to move on to page 24 for two reasons.

Amanda: Okay. Yeah.

Sarah: Two, two quick –

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah, I saw this!

Sarah: Two quick reasons: number one, this is On-Line (two words with a hyphen) Romance with Cathie Linz, and a little heading called Networking. First of all, Cathie Linz’s author photo is gorgeous, and she’s giving the most majestic side-eye with a smile? I love it. But this is about AOL and emoticons and where you can talk about romance online and Westerns, but at the bottom –

Amanda: They even spell out AOL like American Online (AOL).

Sarah: Which is, which is actually not what it’s called. It was America Online; it wasn’t American Online.

At the bottom there’s an emoticons chart.

Amanda: I saw that. I was like, Wow. Just, okay, so in the emoticons chart –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – they use noses –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – in the emoticons, and I’ve known quite a few people who are anti-nose in emoticons.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Anti-nose, anti-face.

Sarah: Strong feelings about noses, people; strong feelings about noses.

Amanda: Just colon parenthesis. Sometimes, like, I had a friend who’s like, Why would you put a space in between the colon and parenthesis. I was like, Because, like, a nose goes there, but the, I think the nose looks stupid. [Laughs] I’m of the opinion colon space parenthesis.

Sarah: Or just together, yeah.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The ones we have here are smile, crying, screaming, laughing, angel, oops, excited, and wow.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: They had to give you a little diagram. I think my favorite part is:

>> In addition to write, reading and, writing and reading, I’ve done some cruising on the web and found a neat website: http://www.freenet.mb.ca/reidpage/romance/html

First of all, that doesn’t exist anymore; I tried to bring it up. But also, that’s a really long URL. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah. I like at the end that she lists her internet ID.

Sarah: Yes! There’s a Prodigy internet ID. Oh my God, that’s funny.

“Nursing Back to Health.” Did you see this? PDF page –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – 29; magazine page 28. Theme Spotlight: “Nursing Back to Health.” Kate Ryan wrote a whole article about the fantasy of nursing a hero back to health. It usually doesn’t include the grim realities like bed pans, bed sores, and regulated medicine. What women fantasize about instead is the opportunity to dominate the hero? Is that –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: I –

Amanda: I can see it.

Sarah: I can see it, but I’m not – like, that’s not why I –

Amanda: I can see it.

Sarah: – love it.

Amanda: So is, so is Misery a romance?

Sarah: Yes, exactly! She dominates the fuck out of him –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and destroys his ankle bones. There are three authors at the bottom who get quoted about their thoughts on the nursing back to health trope, and it is Diana Gabaldon, Linda Howard, and Patricia Potter. Which one would you like to read?

Amanda: Oh my gosh. I’ll read the, I’ll, I’ll read Diana’s.

Sarah: Go for it.

Amanda: >> “I never have understood the appeal of the masterful alpha male who’s never fazed by anything. Men are usually much more appealing after they’ve been beaten to a pulp.” Diana recommends Shards of Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold.

I mean, I agree with her!

Sarah: Smack ‘em up, flip ‘em, rub ‘em down! Oh no!

Amanda: One of – we talked about this like probably two or three issues ago, about one of Jackie Ashenden’s, like, dark erotic romances where, like, the woman is a hitman, and – a hitwoman – and beats the shit out of the hero, and I’m like, Yes, five stars!

Sarah: [Laughs] Yeah!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Linda Howard says:

>> Why is the nurthing, nursing back to health so popular? Simple: (a) the hero is often naked, and (b) the hero is often naked. She recommends Outlander by Diana Gabaldon.

[Laughs]

Amanda: I love this commentary!

Sarah: It’s so funny! And then Patricia Potter says:

>> A wounded hero, physically and emotionally, is especially appealing because of his vulnerability. He needs her, and eventually he’s forced to acknowledge it. We all love that.

Now, that I understand, that nursing back to health requires acceptance of your own vulnerability. I don’t know if it’s about dominating, because that sounds like they’re, like, abusing them and holding off their medicine and, like, letting them get bedsores or something! That’s not what I want! But yeah, the hero is naked and the hero is naked.

Amanda: I think the domination part is more of, like, they are, like, not at their full strength, like, physically. Like, this might be a classic time, or, like, one of the few times where a woman has the upper hand physically, and he is, like, essentially at her mercy –

Sarah: That’s true!

Amanda: – and she’s –

Sarah: That’s true…

Amanda: – nice enough to take pity on him and not beat him up, but –

[Laughter]

Amanda: Not hobble him, so.

Sarah: But it’s better if she does.

Amanda: Look, you said it, not me.

Sarah: It’s true.

On page 34 are four books from Avon, and I think we’re in the middle of romance turning into, going from clinch covers to one thing is on the cover? ‘Cause we have Once More with Feeling by Emilie Richards, which is just a dove holding a heart necklace in its beak, and then we have Deborah Gordon’s Runaway Magic, which is some sort of box opening up, but at the bottom we have Wicked at Heart by Danelle Harmon and Someone Like You by Susan Sawyer, and they are clinch clinching.

Amanda: I think you’re right about turning into like one image?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Because, like, later on in the magazine I think there’s an ad for a Fern Michaels book, and I remember in the mid ‘90s we were still living in south Florida –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and I remember my mom having a lot of Fern Michaels books, and I remember, like, when I would visit my Nana, she would have the clinch covers, but –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – when my mom would read romance I remember more of the covers where it’s like a single image, like – 

Sarah: It’s a thing.

Amanda: – a necklace –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – or a mirror or whatever.

Sarah: Tchotchkes. The tchotchke covers is what I call them.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: We had buildings and we had tchotchkes. This is tchotchkes.

I just put the color cover of Susan Sawyer’s Someone Like You in the, in the Slack; I just shared the cover with you. This actually looks really tender? Like, I like this clinch cover. It doesn’t look like they’re about to go to Bone Town? He’s sitting in a white wicker chair, his shirt is open and not tucked in, and she’s on the ground between his legs, and he’s holding her jaw with his hand and has one arm around her shoulder, and she’s resting her hand on his knee. They actually look kind of tender. He does have an Elvis haircut, I will note.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But this actually looks really tender.

Amanda: I don’t like this one.

Sarah: It, it, well, the thing is, it looks infantilizing. It reminds me of all the covers that we’ve looked at that were illustrated covers where we’re like, Why does this woman look so small and so young in this illustration?

Amanda: And I think the more washed-out colors, rather than, like, the highly saturated, like –

Sarah: Fuchsia!

Amanda: – gem tones, whatever –

Sarah: Sensual!

Amanda: – this reads to me as, like, inspirational. Like there might be, you know, some sort of infantilizing religious undertones.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Just from, like, the color palette.

Sarah: Yeah, it is very, like the original Avon covers for Julia Quinn, like Minx, the ones that, before the Bridgertons? They sort of had this same color scheme. They were very pastel.

On page, PDF page 36, we have “Tête a Tête” with Kathe Robin, with Kathe Robin, which is like the news about historical. Would you please read the first article about Lydia Lee? Okay –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Amanda’s like, Yes, I need to talk about this.

Amanda: I gasped –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – when I read this.

Sarah: I did as well.

Amanda: As, as a millennial who just got her first home, I gasped.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And also probably only home, let’s be clear.

>> Author Lydia Lee and husband Ozzie Green are building a seven-thousand-square-foot home near Richmond, Virginia, on land, land owned for generations by Lydia’s family. The manse will have a library, three-car garage, movie theater, and indoor swimming pool. Authorities granted Lydia permission to name their new lane Lady Slipper.

Sarah: I am now on Google Maps, and Lady Slipper Lane does exist. There are –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – it appears that it has since been subdivided, because there are a lot of houses on this street.

Amanda: Can we find the house? [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, I, I’m looking. I’m looking for a big old house. There’s a big old tree. Oh! One of them is grayed-out, so maybe that’s the one.

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: They don’t want you to see it. But there’s, like, a bunch of, like, you know, double, two-story, sort of pre-fab, they all kind of match. But yes, Lady –

Amanda: I wouldn’t be surprised if her mansion was, like, the subject of a future article like, Look at this big old house!

Sarah: Look at this big old – seven thousand square feet? That’s a lot of feet and a lot of cleaning, to be honest with you.

Amanda: Se-, like, I can’t even imagine a house that size.

Sarah: I also want to read this obituary:

>> We regret to report the passing of legendary novelist Eugenia Price, seventy-two, from heart failure in late May. According to her lifelong companion Joyce Blackburn, she will be buried on her beloved Georgia island, St. Simons. She will be dearly missed by fans, who have bought over forty million copies of her Southern sagas during the past twenty years.

Her lifelong companion Joyce? Are you trying to tell me they were roommates?

Amanda: [Hums] Hmmm!

Sarah: So, yes. Eugenia, rest in peace. I’m assuming that Joyce is also no longer with us. I hope they had a long and happy life together.

And now on page 78, big jump, we are taking a look at “Delicious Details from Lady Barrow” about their travels. It is basically a scrapbook of these people going to England with Kathryn Falk. What a group that must have been.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs] I’m, I mean, like, I’m curious in general about any sort of, like, reader trip?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Most of them have been a little too rich for my blood, to be honest.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But I like the concept of –

Sarah: Well, it’s funny –

Amanda: – of it.

Sarah: It’s funny that you say that, because Amanda Matta, who I have an interview recorded with, who do-, who is a royals commentator and also an art historian – she has an art history podcast that I love – she has a partnership with, I think it’s Trova? Where she’ll do different tours and then try to, as a, as an Instagram and TikTok influencer, try to get her audience to join her on a tour, and she’s done two of them so far? And they’ve looked really fun and really unique! Like, when they went to Ireland they did all this cool shit, and the pictures were gorgeous – I mean, ‘cause it’s Ireland; it’s, it’s generally beautiful.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I mean, I get it, and I get that this has sort of come back around? Yet again, Kathryn Falk being a trendsetter? But the language about this trip is so weird. It’s so weird. Like, for example, here we have “Tip-Top Tour to England,” PDF page 79:

>> The gala dinner at King-, at the Kingsley was a spectacular finish to a glorious week and the perfect setting for gowns and jewels.

And if you look at the picture, people are wearing tuxes. This is black tie. You had to travel across the ocean with your black tie!

Amanda: Oh yeah, Kathryn Falk’s not letting you show up to anything in yoga pants –

Sarah: No, not in –

Amanda: – let’s be perfectly clear.

Sarah: But here’s what’s, here’s the sentence that I’m still thinking about:

>> Ian McCorquodale, -Corguodale, Dame Barbara’s son, graced us with his impeccable evening jacket.

Did he give you the jacket? Why do you mean graced you with his – like, did he say something? Was he giving you the jacket? Like, what, what does that even mean?

Amanda: It’s all very, like, navel-gaze-y.

Sarah: It’s very effusively navel-gaze-y, yes; that’s the perfect word for it.

>> The harp music was divine and the food scrumptious: Bordeaux was served with rack of lamb.

Okay. But then, “Teatime with Royalty of Romance.” They went to tea at Barbara Cartland’s house, and I just want to know, on a scale of one to ten, how much cringe this is?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: >> Barbara Cartland is brilliant, charming, and very welcoming. Many of the ladies on our tour were so excited to be sitting in her dining room, so exquisitely set for tea that they couldn’t eat the array of tea foods, including a Cartland-pink cake and meringues. We greeted Dame Barbara with a song we wrote in her honor, “Hello, Barbara,” sung to the tune of “Hello, Dolly.”

Amanda: “Hello, Dolly.”

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: >> The rendition thrilled her and brought tears to her staff.

Okay. [Laughs]

Sarah: >> The office walls and hallway are lined with cover art from over six hundred Cartland titles.

And then there’s all of these pictures of the hats and Barbara Cartland and the house and, like, house tours and pictures – it’s very, very, like, hey, lifestyles of the very rich.

Then we have more pictures of Jude Deveraux’s home, Ketton House.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: There’s a four-hundred-year-old mulberry tree! This just is so baffling to me.

Amanda: Did you see the caption of:

>> Jude’s two handsome gardeners joined us at tea and delighted the ladies with tales of how they re-landscaped Jude’s 18th-century grounds.

Sarah: What the hell? Oh my God!

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay! But this reminds me – okay, so tell me if you think I’m bonkers, but this reminds me so much of right now how in influencer spaces the aesthetic is always attempting to convey wealth. You know, everyone has the same beige neutral; everyone’s wearing very specific pieces of jewelry that you know are expensive, like the Van Cleef & Arpels, like, four clover and Cartier and, you know, branded bags and Chanel and Louis Vuitton. Like, there’s this performance of wealth with a lot of influencers that I think echoes this particular style talking about other authors. Like, it’s just come back around full circle.

I would also like to point out, at the bottom of PDF page 82, there’s a little inset:

>> Rising Mills & Boon star Sharon Kendrick with Ruth Guzner, managing director.

Sharon Kendrick is the author of The Billionaire Playboy Sheikh’s Virgin Stable-Girl [The Playboy Sheikh’s Virgin Stable-Girl] and is forever my hero. Thank you very much for your attention to this matter.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: On page 84 I have some covers to share with you. I actually downloaded them so that I could just spring them on you like a monster.

Amanda: [Laughs more]

Sarah: So at the top: Bronwyn Wolfe, Once Upon a Tangled Tale, which, by the way, if you search for that now it’s a Tangled tie-in fiction for the, for the book. But here is the cover of Once Upon a Tangled Tale, and I just, I’ve just got to talk about this guy’s highlights! You remember Frost & Tip?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Remember frosted highlights?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: We’ve got frosted highlights here! We’ve got –

Amanda: Wow.

Sarah: We’ve got big frosted, frosted highlights here. I don’t know what model that is, but that is a frosted, tipped mullet. Which –

Amanda: Yeah, that’s a shiny, that’s some shiny hair.

Sarah: It’s very shiny.

And then we have Lady of Fire? We’ve talked about –

Amanda: I’m so excited to see this cover?

Sarah: In, in color? You’re –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s fucking incredible. Please note, by the way, lace background: my favorite eBay seller. We love this person. Lady of Fire.

Amanda: I mean, it delivers. There’s fire –

Sarah: He’s –

Amanda: – and there’s a lady.

Sarah: He’s about to toss her into it! Like, she’s off the ground, he has his hand around her waist and is lifting her up by her flank – that’s John DeSalvo, by the way; hi, John – and – [laughs] – and her hair is up, and she’s leaning back and running her fingers through her hair, and there’s a big fire behind her, and it looks like he’s about to just toss her in!

Amanda: Maybe she wants it. She looks excited by the, by the thought.

Sarah: It, it’s possible.

And then Venus Rising by Flora Speer. Now, if you look at this in black and white, at first glance I thought that was a spaceship behind them?

Amanda: I mean, it is listed as a futuristic romance, so I can –

Sarah: Right? I thought that was –

Amanda: – understand.

Sarah: I thought that was a spaceship. But I am disappointed to report that it is not; it just looks like a folly, and the cover is actually pretty boring, I’m very sad –

Amanda: This, yeah, like, this does not communicate futuristic romance –

Sarah: No! That’s –

Amanda: – to me.

Sarah: That’s a folly! That looks like a historical. Like they’re going to go, you know, make out there, or whatever you do –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – in a folly. I don’t know what you do in follies, but that’s got to be part of it, right?

Amanda: These are good. Those are good ones.

Sarah: Aren’t they great?

Amanda: They’re great.

Sarah: Now, if you look at page 93, they’re talking about the conference –

Amanda: I don’t want to look at page 93, Sarah!

Sarah: [Laughs] Why? Because my comment in the document is Look at all these men?

Amanda: Yes. Gross!

Sarah: Seriously, the VIPs of romance at the convention in Baton Rouge, it is mostly men talking about coming to the conference and, you know, being the VIPs of romance. Like, there’s the president of Ingram, the president of Random House, but look at how many of these men are book buyers. They are book buyers for specific outlets. Like, for example, up top left? We have the president of Anderson Merchandisers and Mike Garner, the romance senior buyer for Wal*Mart, is a dude. Then there’s, like, you know, Steven Zacharius, who we’ve, I’ve seen –

Amanda: Look at that mustache, though, on Mike.

Sarah: Yeah, and Walter Zacharius is his late dad. Steven Zacharius is a very affable person to drink with; I have done that. And then if you look at the very bottom right, we have Mike Wyrick and Don Paddock. Mike Wyrick is the national book buyer for Cowley Distributors, and Don Paddock is the buyer, Book-N-Along for truck stops nationwide, and they are sharing a space with Gerald Ratcliffe, who is the director of, director and buyer for Focus Marketing for convenience stores nationwide. So these are the men who picked out the romances that were going to be in truck stops and convenience stores and in anywhere these distributors put their books. And Wal*Mart.

I remember very clearly Kate Duffy telling me that one of the reasons why covers looked the way they did is that all of the book buyers were men, and in order to convey romance you needed big hair and big boobs and big – and the one, they had a lot of influence, according to Kate, a lot of influence into what books looked like. Look at all these men buying romance for outlets! Not a single woman buyer on this page. Can you believe that?

Amanda: Boo. I hate it.

Sarah: Yep.

On page 99, and my comment is –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – Amanda, what is this?

Amanda: [Still laughing] So on the table of contents we talked about the Old South Ball.

Sarah: That sound you hear is my stomach sinking to my feet.

Amanda: Yeah. So.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Held in Baton Rouge.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: It says:

>> In, in the year eighteen and sixty a grand ball was held in the city of Baton Rouge at the elegant home of Ms. Kathryn Falk, Lady Barrow. The ladies were beautiful and the gentlemen grand, and still they speak of it in the fashional par-, fashionable parlors of New Orleans and Atlanta. We are most happy to announce that we are escorting you back in time to the year 1860 and to the evening of that most glorious event, the Romantic Times Old South Ball.

And it’s an Antebellum South event. It’s a Southern ball. This doesn’t surprise me, as someone who grew up in the South, went to a state university that had a lot of fraternities and sororities who held, in the early 2010s –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – I believe they were still holding Antebellum-themed formals –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – which was very popular around Greek life in the South. Like, Alabama had them. I think there’s, like, a big article, honestly, about the, Alabama’s Antebellum South formals. So it was a thing. I don’t think they allow it anymore; not at FSU, ‘cause I did a deep dive of, like, hey, are they still doing this? I don’t think so.

Sarah: [Laughs] As part of this Old South Ball, all ladies attending will be presented with a dance card, used to keep track of what dashing men you’ve promised a dance, and a souvenir booklet describing the details of an authentic Southern ball. I would really like to know what was in that booklet. I know it doesn’t…

Amanda: Yeah, I wonder if there were particular details missing from that booklet.

Sarah: It’s in a, it’s in somebody’s file cabinet. You know, if somebody who kept all their ephemera has this. I would deeply love to see it. There’s also an etiquette guide of, you know, how to ask someone for a dance, how to escort, how to bow and curtsy and, yeah. Okay. And you can rent a costume if you don’t have a costume; they recommend places to rent from. You should talk to Edwina at Medearis Costumes in Lake Charles, Louisiana, so you can get your accurate Old South – oh my God!

If this had happened when we were at RT, our eyebrows would have been past our hairline.

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: Incredible.

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: Incredible.

So on page 115, Susan Wiggs wrote an article about “Storming Booksellers with Romance.” It’s the Writer’s Forum. People were talking about this on social media this week, that there are now close to a hundred romance-only bookstores in existence, and a lot of them are in the US.

Amanda: Crazy.

Sarah: And if you think about it, if you go back twenty years when independent booksellers were actually openly rude to romance writers and romance fans? That’s kind of incredible to be like, go back in time twenty years and tell somebody who had a really awful experience at an independent bookseller – I definitely am one – Listen, in twenty years there’s going to be nearly a hundred stores that are just romance; it’s going to be incredible. Like, that’s an, that’s a massive change. That’s a really big change.

Amanda: I think it was, like, what, within the last ten years?

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: Maybe a little less, I was asked to do a panel at BookExpo America to independent bookstores, along with publishing people and authors – Susanna Kearsley was on the panel – about why independent bookstores should start stocking romance novels.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So this, like, is still so new.

Sarah: Yep. One of the things that Susan talks about in this article is how superstores like Barnes & Noble, Borders, Bookstop (remember those?), they don’t necessarily know what romance readers want.

>> Do your, does your local superstore know that we want the new releases now and not when the stockers get around to unpacking the new books two weeks from now? Do they know we expect clerks to realize an August release is available in mid, mid July? Do they know we like to buy all the series lines when they’re fresh, not when they’re a month old? We want the latest scoop on a com-, upcoming releases. We like to buy not only bestselling favorite authors but new, exciting authors from a midlist. Do we, do they know we actually like to do business with booksellers who actually read romance?

Which is so interesting, considering that we just took a look at all of the men buying romance for these chains.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And she’s basically saying, a dedicated romance reader needs to charge!

>> Let your preferences be known. They won’t know if you don’t tell them. I met a reader who makes a list of all the new romances she likes to buy. She takes the list to a superstore, and if they don’t carry all the books she wants, she just leaves the list with the manager and says, Call me; I’ll be – Call me when you have these, but I’m going to go get all my books elsewhere.

Baller! Awesome!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: She also suggested that booksellers form, form a reading group that meets at the bookstore, and then let the booksellers know that you are an articulate, discriminating reader that will be a loyal customer if the store meets your needs. It ends, ends with:

>> Thanks for letting me get that off my heaving bosom. Happy reading!

Go ahead, Susan! Go off!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Also, her bio is adorable?

>> In 1995, Susan Wiggs’ CPA confirmed that she spent more money on books than on food.

My girl! Hell yeah!

Amanda: [Laughs] Want that kind of information from my CPA. I’m like, You keep that!

Sarah: [Laughs] Our back cover inside is Cassie Edwards’ Savage Shadows with John DeSalvo, who is blond – not a great look for him. And then the back cover is Heather Graham’s Captive, and when I tell you this photograph of her is fucking gorgeous.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Look how gorgeous she looks! It’s – and that’s not even, like, super-heavy ‘80s makeup. Like, there’s some, you know, smoky eye going on here, but this does not scream ‘80s or ‘90s. Like, this is –

Amanda: You know what it –

Sarah: – a great photo! It’s very –

Amanda: – it reminds me –

Sarah: – Dynasty.

Amanda: – or, like, the photo looks like Celine Dion. I’m getting Celine Dion vibes from –

Sarah: Oh God, you’re right! I’ve got to –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – email Heather Graham. Listen, we were looking at a picture of you, and we think you look like Celine Dion. Okay, bye!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So what did you think of this issue? It ‘twas a ride! What did you think?

Amanda: I thought the, like, visuals, especially, like, the covers – I mean, the covers are always exciting in a black and white issue –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – ‘cause then you get to google and be like, Oh my God.

Sarah: [Laughs] Always!

Amanda: Oh my God! I thought the ads and features were better than going through the reviews. The reviews were, like, okay – weird, but okay – but the features and ads, the one about emoticons, like –

Sarah: That was great. Tell me –

Amanda: I think –

Sarah: – all about these emoticons.

Amanda: I think those sort of are better than the reviews for this one.

[outro]

Sarah: First of all, I just want to make sure everyone knows that the emoticon for scream is colon dash at-sign. That’s the scream.

And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Amanda for recapping with me. Thank you to Mary or Mari – I’m not sure how to say it – the Romance Queen, who provided me with these older issues. You can find all of the links, books, show notes, extras at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 685.

As always, I end with a terrible joke, and this one’s super bad; I’m so excited.

Why do witches avoid base sixteen numbers?

Give up? Why do witches avoid base sixteen numbers?

Because they might accidentally hex a decimal.

[Laughs] Hexadecimal! It’s a computer joke and a witch joke! Oh my gosh, the total nerdy convergence; I love it so much! This joke is from jstein916 on Reddit. Thank you for this very deep, specific joke that made me very happy.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend; we’ll see you back here next week! And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking!

[end of music]