673. RT Rewind: May 1995 Ads & Features

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there! Welcome to episode number 673 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and we have a delightfully unhinged issue of Romantic Times. We’re going back to the May 1995 issue to look at the ads and features. We have got a plethora of Old School covers. We’ve got weird language about China and Taiwan, we’ve got Poconos hot tubs, and for reasons we can’t make out, Elizabeth Lowell is thrown under the bus twice.

I have a couple of housekeeping updates:

First, if you are a member of the podcast Patreon, I have switched up the bonus episodes, and I will be releasing longer episodes once a month at the end of the month. Our June bonus episode, where Amanda and I took edibles and answered your questions is one example. I wanted to bring the Patreon folks a little longer, more focused episode once a month, so that’s my plan going forward. Thank you for supporting the show, and I hope you like them.

And speaking of Patreon, I have a compliment this week!

To Jennie K.: You are the new definition of the words wholesome, hilarious, inspiration, and bumbershoot. That’s another word for umbrella, and in this case it refers to your always being prepared.

If you would like a compliment of your very own or you’d like to take a look at our bonus episodes, wonderful Discord community, and other fun treats, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Your support means that the show keeps going every week, and it has a transcript hand-compiled by garlicknitter. Howdy, garlicknitter! [Hi! – gk] If Patreon is not in your cards right now, may I humbly ask that you leave a review for the show where you listen, or just tell some people. Word of mouth and reviews are the best way to help a show. And most of all, thank you for listening. I’m really happy you’re here.

In July, I won’t be doing any RT Rewind episodes. This is partly because I have a bunch of interviews that I’m extremely excited to share with you. My future guests include Gaby Leon, Danielle Allen, Nalini Singh, and Jo Piazza, and I am extremely excited. We’ll be back in August with RT Rewinds, so the time travel machine can have its annual service appointment and we’ll be back in August.

Ooh! One more quick thing: inspired by other Patreon folks, including Chris DeRosa at Fixing Famous People, I’ve put together a collection of some of our exclusive bonus content free so you can sample what we’ve got. For example, do you want to do a crossword puzzle from the May 1995 issue of RT? The crossword puzzle is available for free on Patreon right now. If you’d like to read an issue of RT magazine, the entire issue from December 1997 is now available for your perusal, and the covers are amazing. And if you’d like to try one of our bonus episodes you can join Amanda and me as we look back at our 2024 predictions about romance and publishing. This collection of special previews is available now to all listeners; there’s a link in the show notes to dive in. And if you like our free samples, join us in the Patreon community, where there’s bonus content and much, much more.

Are you ready to go back to May 1995 and take a look at the ads and features? It is delightfully bonkers in here, and the visual aids are exquisite. I even have a video of John DeSalvo as a Chippendale dancer appearing on the MTV game show Remote Control. You do not want to miss that, especially if you remember Remote Control. On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: Shall we do the ads and features from May 1995?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: [Innocent voice] There’s really not much to talk about is there?

Amanda: No. [Laughs]

Sarah: My God, this, y’all, this magazine’s insane this month. It is, this is an unhinged issue. This is an unhinged issue of RT.

Amanda: Yeah. It’s, it’s wild.

Sarah: Oh, it’s so –

Amanda: For sure.

Sarah: – so wild. All right, so starting with the cover, it’s mostly view – mostly view – it’s mostly blue and has Norah Hess and Fancy on sale in May from Leisure, division of Dorchester, and then there’s this little vignette in the middle with John DeSalvo wearing denim and no shirt – John DeSalvo does not wear shirts – a woman in sort of a white, lacy top with a sweetheart neckline, a little bit of a hint of cleave. She looks – these are a lot of the covers where passion looks like indigestion. Like, she looks like she’s just like, Oh, I should not have had Brussels sprouts another day in a row; that was a bad idea. And he’s kind of sniffing her hair, but his hair is – [laughs] – so gorgeous, I cannot –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – get over it. So –

Amanda: That is a nice set of hair.

Sarah: So first, obviously everyone is going to think of the Reba McEntire song, so that’ll do some of your marketing for you. Why not the whole cover? I looked, and there’s no stepback. Like, I looked for this book to see if there were any pictures of the stepback, and it doesn’t appear that there is, so somebody drew all this art, and they’re just using like a three-inch span of it.

Amanda: Well, I also hate, like, when there’s a, a fake stepback? I was in a Goodwill –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – recently, and I was, like, looking, but they’ll have that, like, little slit of, like, color on the edge so you’re like, Oh, there’s a stepback, but when you open the cover, it’s just, like, a, a colored page –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – with, like, pub reviews, and, like, I wanted some art here!

Sarah: If you’re going to tempt me with a stepback, I don’t want to see words. I want to see hair, and I want to see man-titty, and I, I want to see a big shirtless guy and, like, I know what I expect from a stepback, and I’m not even that big of a – like, I don’t have personal investment in the cover art except to say I love them and I love looking at them, and I think it’s a fascinating thing? There –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – some people who are like, You cannot take my stepbacks from me, and my clinch covers! How dare you take them? Like, the world has moved on from the clinch covers. I get it. But, like, come on.

Amanda: There is, yeah, there was one I sent you from Goodreads. It was, I think, a Johanna Lindsey book with Fabio, and they’re, like, behind a, or, like, in front of, like, a, a giant ship wheel?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: She’s, like – [laughs] – groping her own leg?

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: It was wild. Like, that’s what I want!

Sarah: Right?

Amanda: [Laughs] That’s what I love seeing!

Sarah: That’s what you want! That’s, that’s the kind of thing that you want, for God’s sake. I mean, I guess this is the book cover, so it works, but it’s like, we’re here to see the art, not the words. Let’s not pretend otherwise?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: The other thing about Norah Hess is that I cannot see her name without thinking about the World of Longmire post, which is decades old. Like, Candy submit- – this was one of the earliest things that we found online talking about romance, right after Smart Bitches was founded, and then readers sent in Photoshopped romance novel covers, and Candy was one of the ones who sent in a Photoshopped cover, so she was much better at Photoshop than I ever was? But in the original collection there’s a Norah Hess novel – [laughs] – of this woman just lying on top of this man in a tree with her back arched, and the, the caption is I’m About to Let One.

Amanda: [Muffled laugh]

Sarah: Which is just incredible. Candy did a Dara Joy: Dude, Where’s My Deodorant?

Amanda: But the I’m About to Let One is really well done.

Sarah: There’s one called The Love Bum. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah. She did a good job making –

Sarah: For the Love of Scottie McMullet? And then I’m About to Let One, she has her back – they’re in, like, a tree or in a cave – she is arching her back, and it says I’m About to Let One: Wait for It…, and it’s hilarious.

Amanda: And then it’s like, The Bestselling Author of Wisconsin Whore-Dog.

Sarah: Yes! I mean, these are great covers. I will put this in the show notes; never fear.

Amanda: Lord of the Tube Socks.

Sarah: Right?! Like, this – Gimme Back My Shirt! A Little Closer to the Edge, My Love… The Blind and Buttonless Horseman is particularly great.

Amanda: There’s a Juliet Marillier!

Sarah: No way! Where?

Amanda: Birds Like Cray People, and it’s –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – I think it’s part of the Seven Waters series.

Sarah: Birds Like Crazy People! [Laughs more] Yes, they sure do! And wow, those covers are creepy. Wait a minute, the figure on that cover for the Juliet Marillier, that’s, that person has Instagram face from 2025! That person has 2025 Instagram face!

Amanda: Ahead of, ahead of the curve.

Sarah: Yes. Chili Supper for Satan from Kelley Armstrong. I will link to all of these. They are classic, they’re wonderful, and I adore them, but I cannot see Norah Hess’s name without thinking, Oh, I’m About to Let One, which is not where you want your brain to go; I’m sorry.

So page 2 is the inside cover, and these things are in color, which is great.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So the – [laughs] – top one, the top one is The Savage by Parris Afton Bonds, which we talked about in the reviews episode. That’s John DeSalvo with a really nice ponytail, but if you look at the lower right, the lower right corner of this book, she only comes up to his nipples? Is she on –

Amanda: I’m –

Sarah: – her knees, or is she –

Amanda: So –

Sarah: – really short? [Laughs]

Amanda: I think she’s on her knees, but if she stands up –

Sarah: …again, why?!

Amanda: – she’s going to be like his height.

Sarah: [Laughs] This is such a weird cover! And –

Amanda: It’s like he’s about to breastfeed her.

Sarah: He does look like he’s about to breastfeed her or, like, be a complete dick and, like, push her head down?

Amanda: Ugh.

Sarah: Like, what are we going to do about this? I cannot find a cover of this book online. I think that might be the only one that I’ve seen in, like – this is the, the one in the magazine is the only one I can find. Otherwise, I have no other images online of this book. It’s too old.

Amanda: It’s lost to the annals of time.

Sarah: And there’s, she’s apparently gotten her rights back and republished a bunch of things? But those covers do not equal whatever this is –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – ‘cause this is amazing.

Amanda: They’re never good!

Sarah: They’re never good.

And then if you scroll down to the bottom there’s a Kenyon!

Amanda: I didn’t know she wrote historical romance, ‘cause I came in when she was writing, was it the –

Sarah: Dark Hunter?

Amanda: – Dark-Hunters?

Sarah: Dark some- –

Amanda: Dream Hunters?

Sarah: Dark something or other.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But if you look at that cover, okay, first of all it’s Daemon’s Angel, spelled D-A-E-M-O-N, so Daemon’s [dee-mons] Angel or Daemon’s [day-mons] Angel or both? I don’t know? That is some kind of weird sort of futuristic or something? Like, it’s weird.

Amanda: Well, it says:

>> Cast, cast to the mortal realm by an evil sorceress, the angel Arina yearns for the safety of the pearly gates, until she finds paradise in the arms of a Norman mercenary.

Sarah: So instead of monster-fucking, it’s angel-fucking. That’s what we’ve got –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – at this period of time.

Amanda: She’s an angel cast out from heaven by an evil sorceress.

Sarah: And she wants the safety of the pearly gates, but she finds perils of a different kind.

Amanda: Which makes sense for this weird little cherub in the –

Sarah: Who’s dropping stuff in her hair! Like, you can’t see it in the book cover that’s in the magazine, but in the full cover the angel seems to be, like, dripping stars from Campbell’s chicken and stars soup – like, little, fat stars? – into her hair.

Amanda: Don’t do that! Her hair looks curly. That’s going to take forever to get out.

Sarah: You’re not going to be able to get that out. It’s incredible. But, like, I was not expecting to see Sherrilyn Kenyon writing a fantasy historical? That’s a new one.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then on page 3, we’ve got Sweet Awakening, and –

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: – I put a link in –

Amanda: They’re naked.

Sarah: They are very naked. Very, very naked, and in The Raven’s Wish she’s, it looks like she’s wearing jorts. But if you look at the link that I posted in a comment for Sweet Awakening, the new cover is amazing? It’s a piece of art, and the number of times I have made that face at someone who’s being a jackass is not measurable at this time. That woman’s face is like, Oh, how delightful; it’s you and you’re here and you’re talking.

Amanda: This is a, a very long neck.

Sarah: It’s a very long neck and a very unimpressed face. I, I don’t love the re-covers that don’t look anything like romances, that, like, use public domain art, although I understand why they exist. That face is like, Oh, bless your heart, you’re still talking. That is the face of a woman who’s run out of tolerance.

Amanda: Oy.

Sarah: Yep. So unfortunately, the most, most of the news, most of this is newsprint, so we have to sort of guess, is this cover worth trying to google in color? Sometimes it is, and sometimes –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – not so much!

Then we come to page 4! It took me a really long time to get to –

Amanda: This is where the craziness begins…

Sarah: It took me a really long time to get through pages like 1 through 20, because every page is more unhinged than the last?

This editor’s letter is incredible! Lady Barrow says:

>> We’ve come a long way since the early days of 1981, when Romantic Times was tabloid style and readers wore gloves to peruse all the pages.

Spoiler: my hands still get dirty when I touch this magazine now.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: >> I hope you’re as happy where we, as we are with our new glossy format. It has long been our dream to show off the beautiful romantic artwork in all its glorious colors.

Carol Stacey’s now the president. Her, Carol’s daughter is on staff. Kathryn’s niece is on staff. It’s going to help out as a model and volunteer at the Book Lover’s convention. What do you think that conversation was like? Hey, you need a job? Come be a model and help me out with this fan con!

Amanda: I know.

Sarah: Then! Then it gets weird. Do you want to read the next part? ‘Cause it’s weird.

Amanda: Ohhh boy.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: >> My February trip to China was a great success. The Kelly and Kathryn Present line for Sitak Book Publishing in Taiwan launched in February with an exciting new cover design and romantic illustrations courtesy of the talented Sharon Spiak.

Sarah: I interviewed her! For the podcast!

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: I want to call her and be like, Sharon, what was this? Tell me everything.

Amanda: >> The launch author, Judith McNaught, was highly publicized in leading Taiwan magazines.

Sarah: So is she basically doing international sales for people?

Amanda: It looks like it!

Sarah: Like, is she de-, is she brokering international deals for authors out, like – is she operating as an agent? Is she setting up – like, I don’t understand any of this. This is weird.

Amanda: Yeah, like, is she brokering, like, international rights deals?

Sarah: Right? I don’t know.

>> In Beijing, I was given a very warm welcome by the Xinhua Book Publishing Company –

I hope I said that right.

>> – made to feel quite at home. The staff surprised me with my own logo on the back of the translated books. My trip coincided with the Beijing Book feller, Booksellers Fair, which attracted over five hundred Chinese publishers and booksellers by the thousands. I was the only Westerner in sight.

I don’t know who Kelly is, ‘cause it’s Kelly and Kathryn, but she was the only one there.

>> Xinhua proudly took orders for Sheryl Woods’s Amanda Roberts series, and nearby were two publishers on the scene for the first appearance of the American romances in China. My Valentine –

This is where it’s just, Oh, and here comes Kathryn.

>> My Valentine Lantern Day party in Beijing was a memorable event. It was the first time in nineteen years that the two holidays coincided. After cocktails in my Chinese hotel suite with cupids and hearts, plus red paper lanterns, I invited my guests to dine in a beautiful Indian restaurant, a special way to celebrate the fourteenth day of the first lunar month of the Year of the Pig. Happy reading, Kathryn.

What?

Amanda: Oh boy. And then there’s a photo!

Sarah: There’s a little photo of her! And I am telling you, this woman is a very highly talented party planner, because I would never have gotten Indian restaurant on the fourteenth day of the Year of the Pig.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wow, right? It gets weirder, folks. Just get, just get ready; it gets even weirder.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Page 6: the first two letters are incredible. They’re just incredible. And then there’s another one with, with, with Tommy, and I looked up Tommy. I want to talk about Tommy. So did you –

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: – did you see either of these letters? You should read them; they’re incredible.

Amanda: Yes. So I did. So I’ll read the first one.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Wedded to a K.I.S.S., K-I-S-S, and there’s, like, little periods as if it’s an acronym? ‘Cause wasn’t, like, that a Harlequin line, KISS?

Sarah: I, maybe? It’s definitely an RT thing, where they feature a book and call it the K.I.S.S. book, which I forget what that stands for.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t…

Amanda: >> I’m writing to let you know how much I adore your magazine. It helps me select which new books to purchase and gives me insight into my favorite authors. As well, the columns are always entertaining and informative. I’m writing because I need your help. I’m getting married to my very own KISS hero on August 5th, 1995. I want our day to be as special and romantic as possible. As you are the authority on romance, could you please make some suggestions as to how I might make it as romantic as possible? I’m especially interested in ideas for decorations for both the church and the hall. Also, could you please publish my address in case your readers have any suggestions? Thanks.

And then she has her address, and – [laughs] – RT’s response was of no help.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But they say –

Sarah: We ain’t, we ain’t doing all that.

Amanda: Yeah.

>> Readers, you are the most romantic of all. Please help Suzanne out and send her your personal and favorite wedding tips and ideas.

Sarah: Okay. So first of all, they’re like, Yeah, we’re not doing all that. We’re not interested. Number two, you – this is a woman who took you out for Indian food on the fourteenth day of the Year of the Pig. You want advice about how to make a romantic wedding from this person, you’re going to get some really wild suggestions. Like, incredible ones.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So what are you, what are you going to take from Romantic Times to make your wedding more romantic, Amanda? ‘Cause you also are planning a wedding! How is this advice going to help you?

Amanda: It’s not.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Do you want me to find out if I can get John DeSalvo to come to your wedding? He answered my email –

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: – when I was writing my book. Listen, I just need you to not wear a shirt and just show up and wave and then leave. [Laughs]

Amanda: Brian’s going to be like, Who is this guy?

Sarah: Wait a minute –

Amanda: Does he, can he, can he officiate?

Sarah: Oh my God! Oh, wish he could! Oh, that would be so great!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Holy – I don’t think John DeSalvo is on Cameo, but if he were it would be like my number one gift for people.

Amanda: Yeah. I think the fact that the, we’re eloping is the romantic, most romantic detail of all.

Sarah: Definitely.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Definitely a good call.

The second letter is even shorter, and it is wild.

Amanda: Crazy.

Sarah: Jacqueline’s Four Sons:

>> I saw the picture of Jacqueline Martin’s sons in the March 1995 issue. Yes, they are all good looking, but Richard, ah, Richard, he is definitely cover model potential.

This is Ann Niebergall from North Bergen, New Jersey. First of all, what are you doing lusting after somebody’s kids in the magazine? That’s, that, we don’t need to do that. And then there’s another letter!

>> All four sons are definitely hunks and model material. Let’s see a picture of hubby!

From Janet Therens in Weatherford, Texas. Boundaries, people! Boundaries? Boundaries.

Amanda: Creep!

Sarah: I understand that at the time there were not boundaries in this magazine, but I will never stop advocating for better boundaries for this. This is bonkers.

Amanda: Geeze!

Sarah: Then there’s Tommy Dister, and I will not read this whole letter. Tommy Dister is from Kemah, Texas, and I believe that he’s only slightly older than me, ‘cause I tried to figure out who this guy is. So this, this letter is title Supernatural Affection.

>> I recently picked up a copy of RT at one of my favorite bookstores, and I was amazed at the wealth of information. I’m interested in nonfiction paranormal mysteries, but I know that romance and the supernatural blend, blend together very well, particularly with romantic ghostly encounters, dark erotic encounters with vampires, and strange unsolved mysteries. I have accumulated a special library of books that may interest your readers. I call it the library of the unexplained.

Basically, Tommy has been collecting stuff. It is a private collection. You can make an appointment to come in his house and see his books, and he does not loan them, but he’ll make a reading list for you. Here we go:

>> I have made an effort to include all aspects of the unusual in my collection.

And these are his headings:

>> Frauds, hoaxes, UFOs, extraterrestrials, ancient astronauts, ancient civilizations, lost civilizations, Atlantis, Bermuda Triangle, parapsychology, psychic phenomena, life after death, near death experience, ghosts, hauntings, poltergeists, demonic possession, cryptozoology, Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, vampires, missing persons, Fortean phenomena –

No idea.

>> – occult, supernatural, paranormal, holy shroud –

[Laughs]

>> – Noah’s ark, and magic!

Amanda: I’m like, what the hell are Fortean phenomena? What is that?

Sarah: I need a recommendation list of romances that fit every single one of these. Like, I already know who to put for – this is your summer bingo, Amanda! Your summer bingo is right here. This is it.

Amanda: See, so I, I’m sorry. I’ve got to pass out on, like, Noah’s ark? No, thank you! But also, what are ancient astronauts, for one? Two, what are the differences between UFOs and extraterrestrials? I feel like they’re pretty connected.

Sarah: Well, Tommy thinks otherwise! Now, because I’m a creep-ass, I googled, ‘cause – the other thing is they’re putting people’s whole-ass addresses in here, so I googled –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – you know, what’s the house look like? I believe that this gentleman is still with us, and I wonder if Tommy still has his library.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Fortean phenomenon.

Amanda: I, like, it brought me to the person who coined Fortean phenomenon, Char-, Charles Fort. Can’t find anything.

Sarah: I still can’t figure out like a concise definition of what Fortean pheno- – Fortean phenomena are events which seem to challenge the boundaries of accepted scientific knowledge.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: Like, I don’t get it. So I, kudos to you, Tommy, for your, for your guest library. Incredible.

Amanda: I like how they didn’t respond or say anything. Do, do with this what you will.

Sarah: You can contact him and go to his house if you want to.

Amanda: [Laughs] We, we won’t be held liable.

Sarah: So we need you, the readers, to plan this woman’s wedding. We need to harass this author for pictures of her family, and then we need to go visit Tommy and check out his books. This is a weird collection of letters this month.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then we get to page 7, and when I tell you I have sent this to many people. There’s also a crossword puzzle in here that I isolated – this was so cool. When I was scanning it, I pulled out the crossword puzzle and then the, and then the code key, I guess is what you’d call it? And I put that up as a PDF for the Patreon. I was like, Hey, you guys want to do a crossword puzzle about romance novels from 1995? And when I tell you there are objectionable topics in there, ohhh my!

This ad. Let’s talk about this ad! It’s incredible, right? Amanda’s eyes are so wide, and she has a, like, you know the little yikes emoji where you see…Yeah, she’s like, Ew! Amanda is made of yikes at this time.

Amanda: I just – what were they thinking?

Sarah: The, the words mean different things now, I think, is the problem.

Amanda: Yeah. No, you’re right. I mean, the –

Sarah: The, the words –

Amanda: – first headline is –

Sarah: – mean different things.

Amanda: – You, You’re About to Become Privileged! Exclamation mark.

Sarah: So this is about Harlequin and Silhouette readers.

Amanda: Pages & Privileges from Harlequin and Silhouette books. What does that mean?

Sarah: I don’t know! It’s not clear from the ad, either.

Amanda: So it looks like, like, it’s our way of thanking you for buying our books. Get all of this for free for just one proof of purchase. So you mail in, I’m assuming, a proof of purchase from a Harlequin or a Silhouette book.

Sarah: So does that mean you send them the receipt, or do you have to cut the UPC symbol off the back of the book? Because hardcore collectors are not, not going to be on board with that.

Amanda: Interestingly, they don’t say, and there’s –

Sarah: Nope!

Amanda: – no, like, web address or anything like that or Write to us at this for more details.

Sarah: Nope! All the details –

Amanda: Nothing.

Sarah: – are in Harlequin and Silhouette books at your favorite retail stores starting in May and in stores, excuse me, mid April.

Amanda: Yeah, and you get hotel discounts –

Sarah: Where?

Amanda: – sixty percent at home and abroad. Maybe they send you, like, a little coupon book? Travel service? Guaranteed lowest published air fares plus five percent cash back on tickets. A twenty-five-dollar travel voucher. A sensuous Petite Parfumerie collection, which is a fifty-dollar value. An insider tips letter with sneak previews of upcoming books. There’s no club to join, no purchase commitment? No obligation, but you have to purchase something.

Sarah: No, it’s just you don’t have to keep purchasing to be part of it. You do it once –

Amanda: Got it.

Sarah: – and then you’re done.

Amanda: And then no obligation. See details – oh! – in all your Harlequin and Silhouette books at your favorite – so I bet there’s probably like an insert in those books that tells you more.

Sarah: Exactly. My favorite part is at the bottom.

>> Harlequin and Silhouette – The most privileged readers in the world!

That didn’t age well. Harlequin and Silhouette are the most privileged readers in the world.

Amanda: Don’t you forget it!

Sarah: No, absolutely not!

And then, a special treat for us: we have Under the Covers with Flavia Knightsbridge!

Amanda: She’s back, everybody!

Sarah: She’s back! And she’s just printing all kinds of stuff! This is, this is the kind of stuff they’re printing. All right?

>> Danelle Harmon, whose My Lady Pirate is a Love and Laughter nominee this year, faxed us from her new home in England with exciting news!

So she sent RT a fax, which okay!

>> She got married in early March to “my handsome English fiancé, Dr. Chris Gatcombe.” Her new husband is involved with the joint European nuclear fusion project, and they will be living seven miles from the illustrious Oxford University. Her wedding dress was specially designed and copied from a gown worn by Emma, Lady Hamilton, in 1800. Congratulations to the blissful newlyweds! Danelle’s next book, Taken by Storm, will be an August release.

Can you imagine, just people are like, authors are like, Oh, I’ve got to fax RT my news!

Amanda: I know. Fax machines.

Sarah: Then there’s, then there’s RT just, like, throwing this author under the bus again? It’s kind of amazing when they do this?

>> Zebra is reprinting Ann Maxwell (also known as Elizabeth Lowell’s) Dancer series. Fire Dancer, Fire Dancer will be released in July, Dancer’s Luck in December, and Dancer’s Illusion in April ’96. The big question is will she finally give readers the long-awaited last book of the series, Dancer’s Rainbow? Unfortunately, the answer is no. Maxwell has no plans to finish off the series.

[Laughs] That’s so mean!

Amanda: Yeah. I’m trying to think of how to phrase this. I think this is helpful, because I know we get a lot of questions on the site of, like, What’s so-and-so up to these days? Is so-and-so still writing? And all we have to go on, kind of, is their author websites? Like, people got –

Sarah: Social media.

Amanda: So, like Meredith Duran, for example, every time I feature a book on sale by her, everyone’s like, Gosh, I wish she would –

Sarah: She was still around.

Amanda: – come back to writing, whatever. But someone in the most recent sale I featured, someone on Reddit noticed that her About page – they used, like, the Wayback Machine – her About page was updated like two years, eighteen months ago?

Sarah: Is that like watching celebrities and who they unfollow?

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah! But, like, it, they had changed, or she had changed her About page to mention that, like, she’s working on a manuscript.

Sarah: Oooh!

Amanda: So –

Sarah: Well, that’s good news.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then on page 9 we have news about Prince Charles, and we have news about Ciji Ware’s new cat, Cagney Cat, and then a picture of the cat.

Amanda: They featured the name, and I was so excited. I was like, Thank God!

Sarah: If you’re going to talk about a cat, you better damn tell us what the name of the cat is. And there’s a picture of the cat sitting on the desk above what appears to be a word processor or a laptop?

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: Then there is a weird con-, confusion of Jack-, Jackie Collins and O. J. Simpson?

Amanda: That didn’t age well, huh?

Sarah: Did you read this weird thing?

Amanda: Yeah, they mention O. J. Simpson, they mention Eric Clapton, which –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – also not a good dude. Like, crazy!

Sarah: Okay, so I’m going to read some of this because you’re not ready for this.

>> Flamboyant contemporary author Jackie Collins informed RT –

By fax, maybe?

>> – that with all the talk about the O. J. Dream Team –

That would be the trial attorneys.

>> – she’s come up with her own versions. Send in your Dream Team suggestions and we’ll print them here.

Jackie Collins’s Dream Teams would be – now, I don’t think for a second she came up with this and contacted them? I think they contacted her and were like, Please tell us. Her Dream Lover would be Napoleon. I’ll let you wonder why.

>> Because short men always try harder and they are more grateful.

Wow. Dinner guests: she wants to have a round table with Margaret Thatcher because she has a wonderful air of, of authority and knows how to put a man in his place. She wants to put Gore Vidal next to Maggie and put Madonna, because she’s quite a – [laughs] – quite outrageous, and then on Gore Vidal’s other side would be Sharon Stone, because why not? Then – this is great – Jackie would put President Clinton between herself and Madonna – bad idea – and the author herself would like to sit next to Jack Nicholson because he is “crazy.”

>> Jackie would be the mediator for her round table and would bring up such topics as penile implants, which always liven up any conversation.

[Laughs] Amanda, do you find that talking about penile implants livens up your conversations?

Amanda: No!

Sarah: I, I think I might need to make that a subtitle of this episode: Penile Implants Enliven Any Conversation.

Amanda: Oh, do you think she actually suggested these things?

Sarah: Not a chance. Unless, maybe she’s friends with Kathryn? Maybe?

Amanda: Maybe she, like, it’s possible she has, like, a PR person who sort of wrote all this stuff down and then –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – gave it to her to, like, sign off?

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: But man, a lot of this has not aged well.

Sarah: No. Her Dream Rock Band is Eric Clapton – ew – Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, and Joe Cocker, because they’d all try to outdo each other with sensational results. Oookey day? And then her ideal man – oh God. Oh boy – her ideal man would be a combination of Mel Gibson’s sense of humor and bottom – I assume that she means his ass and not the fact that he is a bottom? But I could be wrong – the good looks of Pierce Brosnan, and the delightful comedy talent of John Cleese – who’s all, who’s, like, neck and neck with Eric Clapton for, like, most racist guy – combined with the savvy charm of Liam Neeson. Then she’d hire a plane to take them to Hong Kong so she could gather ammunition for her next books.

[Laughs] What is this?! This is the weirdest celebrity roundup I’ve ever read, and it’s very making me uncomfortable!

Amanda: Well, the fact that she uses the O. J. trial as –

Sarah: Right?!

Amanda: – a jumping-off point –

Sarah: Like, what?!

Amanda: – is pretty tasteless – [laughs] – if you ask me.

Sarah: O. J.’s Dream Team has nothing on mine! I’ve got John Cleese, Eric Clapton, and Jack Nicholson! Like, what is this? And Napoleon; don’t forget Napoleon, because short men are grateful. Oh boy. I, this, I could not have predicted this if you paid me, and I cannot think of a situation where this is a rational thing to say. [Laughs]

Amanda: It’s not.

Sarah: It’s really, really not! [Laughs]

Amanda: Ugh.

Sarah: I will, I will put this whole thing in the show notes; don’t worry.

And you noticed the amount – [gasps] – it’s the full art of the cover! Oh my God, I didn’t, I missed that it was in here!

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah!

Sarah: Please tell me what you noticed about these pages.

Amanda: I mean, so this whole section, America’s Sweetheart of Romance Norah Hess, and Hess is the cover book as well –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and is also reviewed. They only gave this woman three stars –

Sarah: Unbelievable.

Amanda: – and I feel like in other issues we’ve seen, it, like – [laughs] – they usually make the featured book or author like a Top Pick or something like that, but Norah Hess only got three stars. They include an excerpt from the book Fancy, and then they do have the full cover. I guess there is a stepback then.

Sarah: I hope so, but what, what’s –

Amanda: Yeah, John DeSalvo’s got some tight jeans on.

Sarah: Oh, hang on! Okay, this is weird. So I took a screen crap – a screen crap, that’s what I did.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: I took a screen crap! I took a screen cap of the picture in the magazine in black and white, opened it in a browser, and then image-searched it, and I found – this is so fucked up – on Tech Crunch, an article about venture capitalists. Super Angels: Like Making Love to a Lover. Venture Capitalists: Like Making Love to the Government. This was published in September 2010. I don’t know what they’re talking about, but I will put in the chat this link. So this is an Italian translation of Ellen Fisher’s – I don’t know what that means in Italian – but that seems to be –

Amanda: One night? One night –

Sarah: M-, Moglie. Moglie. Un nuova moglie.

Amanda: One, one night wife?

Sarah: Oh, okay, sure! One-night-stand wife. But if you look, that’s the art –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – for this book! It’s the same art. So I know that overseas editions often reuse cover art from one book on a different book, but that is pretty much the only place I’ve seen this art anywhere. I could not find it in any other location.

Amanda: This book, if I remember, takes place in the 1860s?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Those jeans and that belt do not seem time-period appropriate.

Sarah: [Laughs] Yeah. Neither does the, the level of styling in his hair.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Although, nice ass! I mean, I’ll give him –

Amanda: Yeah, his, his thighs and butt look good.

Sarah: Yeah, but I don’t know why this cover is being used in a Tech Crunch article. That’s weird.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t know why this Norah Hess book is connected to venture capitalists in, in 2010, but okay! Sure!

Amanda: There were no eBay listings for this book, I’m assuming?

Sarah: I didn’t look. That’s a good question!

Amanda: I found one, but it just has a stock photo. There’s no sort of –

Sarah: Oh, and it was re-released with a cover that has, has Scriptina on it, so that’s how you know.

Amanda: Yeah, and she’s, like, a lot…

Sarah: That’s how you know it’s good! Oh, there is a lot of Norah Hess firsts, and Fancy is one of them, but it – no, it’s definitely a stepback. Up! I found the stepback; here you go.

Amanda: Yaaay! We did it, everybody!

Sarah: We did it! We found the stepback. If you look at this eBay listing, there, it is the same art, and he also has boots. You can see his cowboy boots. His jeans are tucked into his boots on this one, but they’re holding back the front cover to show the, the stepbacks.

Amanda: Ooh!

Sarah: That’s interesting! Well, at least we know that it has a stepback! That’s good!

Amanda: Yeah. But also, yeah! Why didn’t you just use the whole thing?

Sarah: Right? Why not put that on the cover, for goodness’ sake? Like, that, like, I understand wanting to reinforce the cover itself, but wow! That’s some art right there!

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: John DeSalvo flexed his whole ass, and you didn’t even use it. Very unfortunate.

So going to page 13, there’s a lot of author profiles in here.

Amanda: So many. This one is for Becky Lee Weyrich? And it’s Lifestyles of the Rich & Romantic. So I think –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – we saw this previously with, there’s one with Diana Gabaldon, right? She did –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – a house tour?

Sarah: And Cassie Edwards, may she rest.

Amanda: So I was just sort of skimming through, and then sometimes when I do that, like, pieces of text, like, jump out at me.

Sarah: Oh, me too!

Amanda: And so she was asked about her interior design choices, and this is what she says:

>> I always tell people that my home’s décor is Early Whorehouse because of all the paintings and unusual antiques my husband and I collected while living abroad.

So it… – [laughs] – and I was like, Wow, what a descriptor. And then it mentions, like, different things like hand-carved oak sideboards, a chandelier from Italy, and then there’s, like, they talk about her jewelry, and then they mention a breathtaking emerald ring from Cartagena, and then my mind immediately went to Romancing the Stone, ‘cause it’s set in – [laughs] – Cartagena. But yeah, it’s like, Wow. But I’m looking at her, there are photos of some of the rooms in her home. I’m not getting Early Whorehouse, I’ve got to be honest.

Sarah: Nah, I’m getting ongepotchket.

Amanda: Yeah. There’s just lots of stuff.

Sarah: Which is Yiddish for over-, over-decorated. This is so weird! Setting up romance authors as rich and famous people.

Amanda: There’s also, like, a – [laughs] – painting of a man that’s giving me like Kenny Rogers, like an old Kenny Rogers. All you just see is like a man’s face, and he’s just heavily bearded.

Sarah: It’s either Kenny Rogers or it’s Jesus Christ. I couldn’t tell you –

Amanda: Who can say?

Sarah: – it’s too blurry.

Amanda: We’ve never, look, we’ve never seen Jesus Christ and Kenny Rogers in the same room, is all I’m –

Sarah: It’s true, and now, you know, they’re both in heaven, so maybe they hang out. But I, I definitely wish I could see a better picture of that. I mean, even in the magazine it’s not that sharp.

Amanda: But you know what? She, she clearly loves it, and she said what she said with her whole butt, so –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – clearly she’s having a good time.

Sarah: Said what she said with her whole butt! Oh my goodness.

Amanda: Whole butt.

Sarah: The whole setting up of authors as rich is really weird, because this has to be some of the origin of people thinking, Oh, well, you published a book; you must be really, really wealthy; and all these authors going, Really, really no, not at all. But this is setting them up as, like, wealthy celebrities and, like, Here’s a picture of her deck and her beachside home. Graceful palm trees add a tropical allure. The one before that is the salty – no, it’s the same article. It’s still –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – still Becky Weyrich, and she lives on St. Simons Island, and, like, they talk about her driving in a purple MG convertible. Like, what?!

Amanda: I wonder, too, if, you know, before publishing decided it had no money, it had a lot of money, and they just all pissed it away on, like, really large advances, stuff like that. And I think –

Sarah: I don’t know.

Amanda: – a lot of early romance writers were just cranking them out.

Sarah: Oh yes. And they were also, there weren’t that many. Like, the ones –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – you had were the ones you got. Like, that was it. So there were fewer books.

In the next section down:

>> Warner Books president Larry Kirshbaum was so captivated with the commercial possibilities of an un-put-down-able first novel –

And I’ll tell you what it is in a second.

>> – that he stopped an auction before it started by plunking down a staggering two-million-dollar advance for hard, soft, English-language audio, and electronic rights.

Amanda: That’s, they don’t mean David Baldacci, do they?

Sarah: They sure do! The Executive Power is a book by David Baldacci, credited here as David Badacco. So her book biz is missing some, like, proofread.

Amanda: Yeah, and Baldacci is, is his actual last name. It’s not…

Sarah: Yeah, so David Badacco did not write this.

Amanda: Two million dollars?!

Sarah: Two-million-dollar advance. So there you know! That’s where they’re plonking down their money. They’re…maybe these people are, are all rich from these incredible advances!

Amanda: Two million in 1995.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: So we talked about Anne Perry last time in the review section briefly, but her book is reviewed in this issue. One of –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – her books is reviewed. And there’s a Q & A in this section. The question is:

>> What is the name of the new movie based on the childhood of mystery writer Anne Perry, who helped to murder her friend’s mother?

Sarah: Holy shit!

Amanda: I know! And then the answer is:

>> Heavenly Creatures, filmed in New Zealand, has been winning many awards.

And I’m like, Oh boy. Like, Anne Perry will never escape that she helped commit a murder.

And then –

Sarah: I mean, fair.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Fair!

Amanda: This was before Google. Google came out in 1998.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: So I was like, Man, imagine having to write in to an RT magazine. God knows how long it would take to get your question answered in this Q & A.

Sarah: I think they wrote this up; they made this up.

Amanda: Oh, you think so!

Sarah: I think they made up all these questions because they had the answer.

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: Like, there might have been like:

>> What happened to Julia Grice, who wrote many popular historical romances in the ‘80s?

Answer:

>> She’s now writing one hardcover a year for TOR, either women in jeopardy or heavy suspense stories.

Amanda: Well, that’s pretty shady then, if they’re making, if they’re choosing what –

Sarah: I think they’re making up questions because they have the answer.

So Sweet Briar College is one of the few remaining women’s colleges, and I know about Sweet Briar because I went to another small women’s college in the South. Sweet Briar is in Sweet Briar, Virginia, and they announced that they were closing, but they still seem to be in business. It was a, it was big, big news when, among my alumni bulletin, because, you know, when a, when a women’s college closes, we all talk about it. So this letter to RT:

>> We are representatives of Meta Glass Dorm, Sweet Briar College.

So this is the name of one of their dorms. I don’t think it was sponsored by Meta; it’s too early.

>> Our librarian has an extensive collection of many authors. The series getting the most mileage around the hall is Elizabeth Lowell’s saga of the Mackenzies and the Blackthorns, and we are severely disappointed at the lack of a story for Utah.

How dare you leave out Utah?

>> We crave satisfaction in this matter.

And I just want you to know that I am going to be saying that a lot from now on. I crave satisfaction in this matter. My package is late: I crave satisfaction.

>> Since our first glimpse of him, Utah’s unrequited love has broken more hearts on this campus than all the Hampden-Sydney and UVA guys put together. Will our suffering never end?

[Laughs] So Utah’s not a place; it’s a person. Elizabeth writes:

>> Thank you for forwarding this student’s plaint.

I wonder if it was complaint, and they just shortened it.

>> It was indeed a darling letter –

Oh, bless your heart.

>> – but I’m afraid they won’t like my answer. I have no plans to write Utah’s story.

This is the second time they are just throwing poor Elizabeth Lowell under the bus for not writing things.

>> Only Love, which is about Rafe “Whip” Moran –

Names.

>> – will be out from Avon in June/July 1995. Hopefully that will appease the multitude of fans who wrote asking for Rafe’s story.

You demanding fuckers! [Laughs]

>> Readers, take heed: obviously authors will respond to letters of request sooner or later!

Oh my God, poor Elizabeth Lowell. This magazine is just trashing her name! [Laughs]

Amanda: I want to see if she eventually wrote it. What series was this?

Sarah: I don’t know! Hang on, they’ve named it in the letter.

Amanda: Mackenzies and the Blackthorns.

Sarah: Mackenzies and the Blackthorns.

There is also a very, very long Q & A all about the history of the Lordship of Barrow, which is like two full pages of Kathryn talking about the history of the title that she bought. You buy the Manor of Barrow, and you get the title with it.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: >> In 1994, on December 14, the Lordship of the Manor of Barrow was conveyed to Kathryn Falk.

Well, I am going to say that, like, the things that I buy on Poshmark were conveyed unto me. That’s the other thing I’m going to be saying now. I crave satisfaction in this matter, Amanda.

Amanda: You, yeah! He never got his book!

Sarah: Aw, poor Utah. Well, that’s why there’s fanfic. Because Elizabeth Lowell was not getting the job done. [Laughs] Poor Elizabeth Lowell! It’s so mean!

Amanda: Poor Utah.

Sarah: Poor Utah! Poor Elizabeth Lowell. She’s really getting a spanking in this issue.

Amanda: I know! What, what’d she do? Does Kathryn have, like, a –

Sarah: Vendetta?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: She does-, she doesn’t like Danielle Steel either, ‘cause Flavia used to pick on her.

Amanda: Geeze Louise.

Sarah: So in the Bookstore Spotlight on page 26, they’re profiling Jenny Jones, owner of The Book Shelf from Grand Prairie, Texas. She used to throw a party at RT to thank writers for their hard work. “I just want them to keep writing.” And she’s already planning her costume. This was sort of like, Okay, yeah, what she likes, and then the last paragraph:

>> The only problem at The Book Shelf is a poltergeist who rings up false sales on her cash register!

Amanda: Hell yeah. Ghosts!

Sarah: How do you only devote one line to a cash-register-using ghost? I need to know more!

Then we have a two-page article about John DeSalvo, and I need to tell you some things about this article. First of all, there’s a whole paragraph about how he was in Batman Forever, and now I, I need to look up this movie.

Amanda: You’ve never seen Batman Forever?

Sarah: No, I didn’t see John DeSalvo in Batman Forever.

Amanda: Oh, okay.

Sarah: >> Readers can look for John in the Warner Brothers summer release Batman Forever. One of the perks of landing the role as a bad guy was hanging out with superstars Tommy Lee Jones, Val Kilmer, and Jim Carrey. “I wish I could have been unmasked for my fans, but I know they will still recognize me because I’m the thug in the ponytail and the revealing sleeveless shirt!

Okay I need to watch this again. But also, one of my favorite pieces of, like, gossip lore is that Tommy Lee Jones hated Jim Carrey? Like, hated him. And when they met –

Amanda: Was it ‘cause he was too goofy and he was serious?

Sarah: Literally when they met he, like, introduced himself, and Tommy Lee Jones looked him in the face and said, I cannot sanction your buffoonery. [Laughs] Isn’t that wild?

Amanda: I think –

Sarah: Like, you meet Tommy Lee Jones; he’s like, I cannot sanction your buffoonery.

Amanda: I think I’m Team Tommy on this one. Jim Carrey seems just, like, a lot to be around.

Sarah: Okay, so there’s just one major thing about this article that I need to share with you that absolutely killed me? First of all, there’s a P. O. Box, and I kind of hope it’s still active, ‘cause I want to, you know, I want to –

Amanda: Write to them.

Sarah: – say hi. So there’s a picture of him in a tree, and he’s got one of those – look at that belt. The ‘90s belt with the silver trim and the silver buckle tip? That is such a ‘90s belt. He’s shirtless, and his hair is very well-conditioned. No frizz on this man. However, he is credited throughout this entire article as John D’Salvo, D-apostrophe-S-a-l-v-o, and according to John DeSalvo’s LinkedIn page, that’s wrong. I thought for a hot second that I had been misspelling this man’s name for twenty years. No! It’s D-e-S-a-l-v-o. It’s on his LinkedIn page, and then I realized, Hang on, I’m looking at John DeSalvo’s LinkedIn page! [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, guy’s got to work, right?

Sarah: Right? And his Instagram is also incredible. I posted a link in the, in the, in the document as a comment to an Instagram post. I will share this in the show notes. I just need you to click it and tell me what you see.

Amanda: I mean, MTV Remote Control. It’s a –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – game show.

Sarah: Yeah, it was a good game show.

Amanda: John Stamos?!

Sarah: That’s John DeSalvo with a mullet, and he was a Chippendale.

Amanda: He looks like John Stamos for a –

Sarah: He looks like John Stamos, and here he is, he’s dancing in some – okay, there’s dancing.

Amanda: Oh my God, the blond, the blond guy? Those pants are so tight.

Sarah: Oh, oh, oh, ooh, and they rip their shirts off! [Laughs] Oh my gosh! Also, then they just remain shirtless, ‘cause they don’t give them another shirt. But what is the name of that style of jeans? Paper bag jeans! Where they’re really baggy from the hips and, and –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – those jeans come, pack, practically come up to his navel! There he is in the background!

Amanda: Yeah. Just hanging out. While they’re spinning this poor woman on a wheel.

Sarah: So the trick of Remote Control, in the early days you had to, you had to lie down on the Craftmatic adjustable bed, and they would play ten videos on a bank of TV screens, and you would have to guess all the videos to win the grand prize. That got to be too easy, so they started putting you on a spinning wheel, and people would spin you around while you had to identify the videos. But John DeSalvo was in the Chippendales, the original Chippendales, and then – [laughs] – appeared on Remote Control!

Amanda: I like the guy with the little crop top.

Sarah: Right? And he’s not actually, like, super great at dancing, but it doesn’t matter because they just rip their shirts!

Amanda: Yeah. …One of the contestants is, like, an older woman. Can you imagine if she had to go on the spinning thing?

Sarah: Incredible. I am so excited to share this video with everyone, especially because he just spends the rest of the time with his shirt off just – [laughs] – hanging out! And the mullet. Amanda, the mullet.

Amanda: Good for him for posting it!

Sarah: Right? Like, hell yeah, Mr. DeSalvo!

Amanda: Yeah, good for him. Yeah, I like that he posts his old covers, too.

Sarah: Right? Like, yeah, that’s me! I will link to all of this, people, never fear, but the clip of him on Remote Control, when I found that I almost fell off my chair I was so delighted. You need to find old episodes of Remote Control; it was basically a music video trivia game.

Amanda: They would just, like, play the video and you’d have to guess what the video was?

Sarah: So there were questions, mostly about music and music videos and MTV, and then there was Colin Jost, who was like the sidekick, and he can’t sing? Like, he’s very bad at it? Like, completely tone deaf I think is the word you, you use to describe that? And so there was a whole segment called Sing Along with Colin where there would be a band, and he would start singing the songs badly, and you had to guess what song it was based on how badly he was singing it. Yeah, it was, it was weird. I had, I had the computer game version of Remote Control for the Apple IIGS – that’s how old this is – and one of the reasons why I can type really fast is because you had sixty seconds to type out the full answer, and sometimes the full answer was a sentence? And so I would be like hunting and pecking and I’d run out of time, so I got faster and faster and faster at typing just to beat this stupid game. It was incredible.

I love everything about this whole two-page spread about – no, one-page article – this whole article about John DeSalvo, especially the part where they spelled his name wrong. But then I got to see him with the other Chippendales rip his shirt off, so that’s fine!

Amanda: Yeah. You win some; you lose some.

Sarah: I win some!

Then on page 28, this article – tell me all of your thoughts – this article’s frigging amazing.

Amanda: It’s called The “Art” of Collecting Paperbacks, and it talks about how some people collect mass markets. And not just romance; they mentioned, like, you know, like, Star Trek novelizations –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and stuff like that.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: But I just thought it was very interesting comparing it to where we’re at now, where people are collecting certain editions of romance, normally hardcovers with different cover designs, like special cover designs, sprayed edges, you know, like art, like their own little stepbacks or whatever.

Sarah: This is so germane to the present I’m kind of freaked out.

Amanda: Yeah! But I think it’s interesting that, I think mass markets are collectible items in a way? Especially for the cover art? But they’re not collection items, in my opinion, where you’re, like, collecting these as a way of, you know, like an investment. ‘Cause, like, in the article they mention some paperbacks sold for over a thousand dollars. At least romance paperbacks aren’t heavily worth anything.

Sarah: This article freaked me the fuck out. Like, very weirdly freaked out. This article includes sample covers of pulp or what he calls, I think he calls them sleaze novels, cheesy softcore exploitation books from the ‘50s and ‘60s. I think they’re more commonly called pulp, but he called them sleaze. One of them is Sex-a-Reenos, and then over on the left is Marijuana Girl. I saved that image from social media last week. That is in my photos, in my screen grabs. Marijuana Girl and also Marijuana, “The Devil’s Harvest,” A Vicious Racket with Its Arms Around Your Children. So there were all these marijuana propaganda posters somebody was posting, and one of them was Marijuana Girl! And then I start reading the magazine from thirty years ago –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and it’s in there! And I’m –

Amanda: Jump scare.

Sarah: – really weirded out! The, the universe sends, sends me, sends me signals and I, I, I don’t know what that means except maybe I’m supposed to have more marijuana?

Amanda: Why not?

Sarah: Do you think that could be the meaning? The cover is great.

>> She traded her body for drugs and kicks! Never was there so outspoken a novel as this, telling the truth about teenage addicts and their desperate search for thrills.

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: Okay, do you do marijuana for the thrills?

Amanda: No! I do it to chill the fuck out.

Sarah: Right, like I don’t see edibles as thrilling? I see them as pain relief and relaxation, so I’m not sure what the argument here was. I cannot tell you how freaked out I was to be like, Oh, those are really funny! I’m going to save them to my phone, and then the next week I’m reading a magazine, and one of them is in there. It’s from thirty years ago. That kind of shit weirds me out, and it happens a lot.

Amanda: Your tinfoil hat’s back on.

Sarah: My tinfoil hat is so on.

On page 30 we have a brief article on Audio News about an Outlander audiobook that is abridged to six hours.

Amanda: Only six hours!

Sarah: [Laughs] How? How did they do that? Like, what is missing?

Amanda: Yeah, I wonder what they cut out?

Sarah: How? That book is so big. How did you get it to six hours? What is this?

And then on page 36, Historical Reviews Tête a Tête, which was like a little common, column about historical reviews, historical romance that they do some kind of thing? We just had an article from Kathryn about how she’s introducing romance to China and to Taiwan.

>> Jill Barnett is outraged that Homer, a Taiwan romance publisher, brought out a plagiarized version of her book, and she thanks Kathryn Falk for the alert and insists that Pocket sue the company to stop such practices. Authors, get that mutual marketing clause now!

Do they explain what that means? No, they do not.

Amanda: No. I’m assuming that, like, instead of buying the rights to her book, they just reprinted it. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, they just translated it. But here’s the one that grabbed me here:

>> The February Fabio fan club fiasco infuriated fans. The big One had to calm down angry club members screaming disapproval at his actions with I Can’t Believe He’s Fabio. More details next month.

What the hell does that even mean?

Amanda: Do you have, by any chance, June 1995?

Sarah: All right. I Can’t Believe He’s Fabio. Well, I mean, it’s all going to be overwritten by I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – which was – wait, that was in 1996! Are they mad about the commercial for I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter, ‘cause that was – no, that was a year later than that! Were these happening at the same time? I don’t know.

May 1995; no, the only other 1995 I have is December, so I’m going to have to go and find June 1995 to find out, but I bet it’s the I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter commercials, but why wouldn’t you like that? They were actually quite funny!

Amanda: I don’t know.

Sarah: Whatever they did, the Fabio Fans were furious and, and, and infuriated by this fiasco. I’m sure they had a lot of time, a lot of fun writing that.

Page 41, this cover, put a link to the Amazon page, and it’s not a very good scan –

Amanda: Oh.

Sarah: – but you need to see this cover. It’s –

Amanda: Oh my goodness.

Sarah: – incredible. Like, you know that cover you love with the two people getting busy in some flowers, and there’s a huge unicorn behind them?

Amanda: Kay Hooper, Summer of the Unicorn. [Laughs]

Sarah: This, this is the cousin of that, because these people are riding around in ye olde Ren Faire costumes on the back of a Pegasus.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, I know that rrromantasy is a thing right now. Are there Lisa Frank-looking Pegasuses in romantasy, and if not, why not?

Amanda: So far, no…

Sarah: There’s basilisks! There’s basil-, basilisks teaching you how to sexytime.

Amanda: Lots of dragons.

Sarah: Lots of dragons, tentacle monsters, leshens, aliens, but do we have Ren Faire mullet – yeah, no, we don’t have any pegasuseseses. It’s very sad. Also, this horse looks really, really pissed.

Amanda: Yeah! I mean, he’s like, What the fuck?

Sarah: Right? He looks really pissed off, this horse.

Amanda: Yeah.

So 44, there’s an ad at the top of the page.

Sarah: [Snorts] It’s so funny!

Amanda: Where it’s, it’s a little cutout, ‘cause you can mail it in. It says:

>> Adult Spanking Fantasies for the Modern Woman. Sassy Ladies is the premier magazine of adult spanking fiction. Each issue contains over a hundred and twenty pages of high-quality fiction, readers’ letters, personals, and more. All stories are written by women who have experienced the pain and pleasure of adult spanking. Mail in the order form below and try a sample issue, or send a self-addressed stamped envelope to receive a free brochure. Be adventurous and explore the fantasy.

A sample issue is $11.99. It’s $9.99 plus two dollars shipping and handling.

Sarah: The clip art of the magazine cover is –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – incredible.

Amanda: It’s like a faceless woman in, like, a blousy top, and I think she has, like, a scarf that’s, like, hanging down.

Sarah: Yeah. And she’s got one hand behind her head and one hand on her hip, but the shape of her head is a penis.

Amanda: It sure is.

Sarah: It’s a dressed-up penis is what that is. That’s a penis!

Amanda: A business penis.

Sarah: It’s a, it’s a sassy business penis.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Far be it from us to kink-shame or yuck your spanky yum. You go right ahead. Sassy Ladies is the premier magazine of adult spanking fiction, and they took out, what is this, almost a half a page ad?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Do you think that people wrote in?

Amanda: I don’t know! The thing is, is like, I don’t know how much overlap, honestly, at this time, 1995.

Sarah: I don’t know either. I mean, hey, run it up the flagpole, see who salutes. But wow.

Amanda: They’ll take your money. RT’ll take your ad money. [Laughs]

Sarah: Sassy Ladies!

Amanda: Sassy Ladies!

Sarah: And then on page, PDF page 68, I have another question.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: Reluctant Enemies by Vivian Vaughan. We have another little tiny vignette circle picture.

Amanda: Oh boy!

Sarah: These people appear to be in a hot tub, and they appear to be having butt sex. Am I wrong to think, Oh! Well!

Amanda: No.

Sarah: That’s a butt sex in the suds pose, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And it looks like this bathtub is sculpted in some way? Like, first I thought they were inside a giant shoe!

Amanda: So my parents, my mom and my step-dad, honeymooned in the Poconos.

Sarah: I was just going to ask, Oh my God, are you about to talk about the Poconos? Holy shit! Yes! [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s what this is! Yes!

Amanda: And I remember they have like a bunch of photos from their honeymoon, and they took a bunch of photos of the hotel room, and it had the giant, like, heart-shaped tub, and I think it, they all, they took a photo of a room that had the giant, like, martini glass or, like, glass tub? Where you had to, like, go up a staircase to get into?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Yeah, this gives me – [laughs] – Poconos vibes, and they got married in 1993, so –

Sarah: Ohhh, right, right –

Amanda: – same time period.

Sarah: – right around the time for the, for the Poconos. And those, when you would get a bridal magazine, the back of the magazine was filled with different ads for all those Poconos honeymoon resorts with the champagne glass tub, and –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I always wondered, if they were washed, how did you do that?

Amanda: Well, yeah, you, I was, was wondering how you get into them, and there’s a, like a staircase –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – that goes down.

Sarah: Often, often a carpeted staircase, which, ew.

Amanda: Yeah, no, there’s carpet.

Sarah: Ew! I mean, I understand for slipping purposes, but also, Yikes!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So yeah, these people are in a, either a champagne glass or a giant shoe, and they appear to be – [pauses] – braving a whole new world, apparently. I, I miss cover – this is going to be, sound so crass, but you understand what I mean – I miss the cover art where you look at it and go, Hang on, are they having butt sex? Is he jo-, is he giving her a Jolly Roger? What’s going on here?

Amanda: The poophole loophole!

Sarah: The poophole loophole! It’s all about the poophole loophole.

On page 83, would you read the, the first paragraph and then the two pieces of advice? Because this just, I can’t read this without cracking up.

Amanda: The Butterfly of Love? Is that what we’re talking about?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: [Laughs] ‘Kay.

>> Marie Pap-, Papillon?

Sarah: Papillon.

Amanda: Papillon, ‘cause it’s butterfly in French, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: >> Marie Papillon is known as the international Butterfly of Love. Here are –

Well, I don’t know what that means!

>> Here are a few tips on how to be thoughtfully romantic from, from her St. Martin’s release A Million and One Love Strategies.

Why didn’t they –

Sarah: Okay –

Amanda: – connect this lady with the wedding lady?

Sarah: I was just going to say, you have somebody earlier in the magazine looking for romantic options! Now, the two things that Marie Papillon, the Butterfly of Love, suggests in this tiny, tiny, tiny article are incredible.

Amanda: One:

>> Collect magazines and newspapers from the days when you first met. What a surprise when you show them to your love partner years from now. Imagine the fun you’ll have comparing the way things were – the cars, the fashions – during a trip down memory lane.

Sarah: Well, we do that once a month, and I can agree, it’s pretty fun!

Amanda: Really?

Sarah: Well, I mean, we’re looking at this magazine.

Amanda: That’s true. Okay…

Sarah: We’re talking about the fashions and the cars.

Amanda: I thought you meant with Adam; you guys – [laughs] – sit down and…

Sarah: No, I don’t have, I don’t have room for that much paper in my life. Besides, we, we got married in 2000. Everything was about being the year 2000. Y2K was the only real thing…

Amanda: Yeah, they thought planes were going to drop out of the sky.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: Now look at us! [Laughs]

Sarah: Can I just say, maybe we should go back in time and make it so that the computers all turn off on the year 2000. Life might be a little bit different. Although I wouldn’t have a job, but still! Like, that could be an interesting What If!

Amanda: I follow an Instagram account, I think it’s called Subway Hot Takes, where –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – a comedian will have on other people – you know, comedians, influencers, whatever – and ask what they’re hot take is?

Sarah: Is this the one where they’re holding the Metro card?

Amanda: Yeah, the Metro card?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And you can agree or disagree, and one person, I can’t remember his name, and I completely agreed is, We should turn off the internet for one day a week. It just gets turned off. You can’t access it. Have it be on a Sunday, whatever, the Lord’s day. Just turn it off. Everyone take a mandated break from the internet. And I’m like, You know what? I think that would be really helpful.

Sarah: You know what? I, I can see the, I can see the, the validity of this argument.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, I would like to ask you to read the second piece of advice in this article, because what would you possibly think? We’ve already got Collect magazines and newspapers. Would it be like, Record your favorite TV show? Would it be Save your clothes? What is it? No! Mm-mm.

Amanda: Yeah, whatever you can think of, it’s wrong.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So the second piece of advice:

>> Why not emulate a commodities broker when you are in the market for a love partner? Put together a portfolio of possible love interests and develop a plan of action accordingly. Just like a financial planner, you’ll be diversifying your assets and increasing your chances of winning big.

Sarah: Put together a portfolio and develop a plan of action – she’s just talking about swiping right, right?

Amanda: But, like, what is in the portfolio? Is it like a little vision board where you’ve cut out photos of John DeSalvo from romance covers?

Sarah: [Laughs] It’s just…pictures of John DeSalvo! What does that mean?

Amanda: Maybe a Poconos hot tub? I don’t know!

Sarah: Ohhh…we need some Poc- – what is happening?

Amanda: This is –

Sarah: What does that mean?

Amanda: – weird advice. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s very, very weird advice.

Amanda: I don’t think you need to develop a physical portfolio, either. Just have it all in your noggin.

Sarah: We will end on page 124. The final pages of the magazine are just ads for –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – books that have boring covers. There’s not even a clinch. It’s, there’s a, there’s a bird and some wings and some angel, angel babies, whatever.

Amanda: Horse.

Sarah: Horse. But April’s Romantic Horoscopes by Lee Chapman.

Amanda: I think it’s the first time we’ve seen horoscopes in here.

Sarah: I know! It’s, it’s a pity. Like, that’s kind of cool! So your horoscope – I will read yours.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: >> Aries: With fiery, passionate and headstrong Mars in your solar fifth house of romance all month, you can bet someone’s onto your scent.

Amanda: Gross.

Sarah: >> We can’t say if he’s the guy for you, but he won’t be easily put off.

There’s no need to be heteronormative here.

>> You’re in the mood for a new love after the 21st. P.S.: He could be a foreigner.

Wow!

Amanda: He could be!

Sarah: [Laughs] He could be a foreigner! And your best romance days are the 9th, 10th, 13th, 14th, 16th, the 22nd, the 23rd, and the 26th through the 28th, so basically a lot of days.

Amanda: Yeah, so half the month.

Sarah: Half of the month. Okay!

Amanda: Okay. So Sarah’s Gemini.

Sarah: That’s right!

Amanda: >> Those born during the first ten days of your sign –

Sarah: Not me.

Amanda: Which you’re not.

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: >> – are in for some big changes where an important relationship is concerned. It won’t happen overnight, so don’t panic, but do start thinking about what you really want in a mate.

But if this doesn’t apply to you, then this horoscope is bunk, apparently.

>> One thing is for sure: you are no longer willing to settle for second best.

And your romance days are the 4th, the 5th, the 13th, 14th, 17th through 19th, 21st, and the 26th through the 28th.

Sarah: So you and I are going to get good love in May 1995 on the 26th through the 28th of May, which okay. Fair enough: the 28th is, is my anniversary – in the future; like, five years in the future – but this horoscope does not apply to me, ‘cause I’m in the second half of Gemini.

Amanda: Yeah. And this, I got a best romance day on my birthday – what a shame – but like I said, I was six years old, so.

Sarah: I mean, maybe you kissed a guy in kindergarten! Who knows?

Amanda: [Laughs] Who knows?

Sarah: Or a girl. You could kiss girls if that’s what you’re into.

Amanda: Maybe I kissed somebody, anybody.

Sarah: Anybody!

So what did you think of this issue? Between the, the sassy spanking ladies and the collecting romance and the people asking for advice and getting absolutely nothing –

Amanda: I know!

Sarah: – in return?

Amanda: This one was full of weirdos.

Sarah: Very weird. Very weirdos.

Amanda: I thought the romance in other markets was interesting, because we do get, from time to time, we do get requests of I want romance published outside of the US. Like, where, where is my French translated romance? And there’s not a ton, I feel like.

Sarah: No. The translation market is mostly the US to other markets? It’s very rare that a romance from another market is translated into English. Like, you remember Simona Ahrnstedt was a really big, like, everyone was talking about that book ‘cause it was translated from Swedish.

Amanda: And there’s a new one coming out. Something Hall? Maxton Hall, something like that, but it’s translated from German, and I think it’s got a Netflix or a Prime deal or some adaptation.

So I thought that was interesting, because we don’t hear a lot about translation news, and, you know, with the censorship rules with China and Russia, I mean, I don’t know how successful it is now? Like, I don’t know –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – what happened with Kathryn’s, you know, wheeling and dealing, so I thought that was interesting.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Yeah. There are just some bizarre, like, phrases and ads –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – about how privileged we are.

Sarah: We are the most privileged readers in the world.

Amanda: Yeah, this was –

Sarah: Apparently.

Amanda: – a weird one.

Sarah: This was a very weird one. Well, thank you for going back in time thirty years with me. Romance was weird thirty years ago!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Which is nice, ‘cause it’s still weird now, so I feel like not much has changed.

Amanda: [Laughs] It’s true! Still very weird!

Sarah: It’s just weird in lots of very different ways!

Amanda: Yeah.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. I hope you enjoyed Amanda and me spelunking in the past. I will have links to everything we talked about, especially the videos and the hot stepbacks, and I will have the visual aids. They will be in the podcast entry at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 673. There will also be a link in the show notes, of course.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. This week’s joke is from Bull. Hi, Bull!

In a great flood, who should you trust to build a massive ship for all the books?

Give up? In a great flood, who should you trust to build a massive ship for all the books?

An ark-ivist.

[Laughs] I know many of you are probably archivists and are deeply annoyed with me. Sorry! Thank you, Bull!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we’ll see you back here next week! And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]