659. RT Rewind: May 2015 Ads & Features

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there! Welcome to episode number 659 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and it’s time to get back in the time machine. We’re going to May 2015 to take a look at the ads and features of that issue of Romantic Times. Do you remember digital-first novellas? Do you remember people creating websites for an entire fictional town? Or when indie publishing was talked about with a lot of the same language as used for multilevel marketing systems? Yeah, well, we’re going back to take a little look at alll of the ads and features, and we are so excited you’re here to join us.

I have a compliment this week, which is delightful.

To K. Miller: An internet archivist recently uncovered a MySpace survey about you! And it turns out that you are better than chocolate plus peanut butter, Red Vines plus Mr. Pibb, and pizza with literally anything, because you are that great.

If you would like to support the show, perhaps get a compliment of your own, and make sure that we are on each week with a transcript hand-compiled by garlicknitter – thank you, garlicknitter – [You’re welcome! – gk] – have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Wonderful benefits, truly glorious community, and we would love to have you join us.

Support for this episode comes from Skims. I want to invite you to buy yourself new undergarments. Might have been a while. I have a suggestion: the Fits Everybody collection by Skims is truly incredible for a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that they don’t bunch up, slide down, make any movement that require adjustment, basically. The fabric in the Fits Everybody collection is so softy and stretchy, and not at all tight or constricting. It sort of conforms. No adjustments needed, if you know what I mean, and I think that you do. The other thing I like about the Fits Everybody collection is that it includes so many options. There are body suits, camis, leggings, and bras available up to size 44G, and everything, including the undergarments, is available in a range of colors for a variety of skin tones. I had never tried Skims before, but I’d heard from many people, including folks that I know personally and then people I know online, that the hype is entirely justified. I ordered the full brief, and yeah! It does indeed offer full coverage. It does not ride up, it does not slide down, and I am reaching for my Fits Everybody briefs constantly. Everybody should get a chance to experience this level of comfort. The Fits Everybody collection is available in sizes extra-extra small to 4X. You can shop now at skims.com and at Skims stores. After you place your order online, be sure to let them know I sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select my show in the dropdown menu that follows, or go to skims.com/Sarah.

All right, are you ready? Got your snacks? Got your blanket? Go in the time machine; we’re going back to May 2015, almost ten years ago. What is time? On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: So are you ready to talk about the ads and features of this issue?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: So the May 2015 issue is all about Susanna Kearsley, A Desperate Fortune. This is one of those covers where they take the cover image and blow it up, so it’s not the author; it’s reinforcing the cover image, and I, I think that is the most smart use of the cover money? Like, if you’re paying to be on the cover, reinforce the image of the book so that it looks familiar to people.

Amanda: And I feel like book covers are more recognizable than an author’s face.

Sarah: Oh, for sure! I mean, I have, I have author photos that are like fifteen years old; I need new ones. I don’t look the same. I also don’t live in that house – [laughs] – you know. It was taken at my old house.

But I love this cover. It is for A Desperate Fortune. It’s a woman standing from the back with a lot of flowers tucked up in her hair, and she’s got a shawl and it’s blowing in the wind, and there’s some big, big bridge in the back. But if you’ve never read Susanna Kearsley, Susanna Kearsley is a very unique writer. She does write historical/contemporary time slip, so someone in the past is coming to the present, or someone in the present is going to the past, or maybe they just do a little tango. But they’re very atmospheric, a little creepy, a little emotional, but the historical research details will be superb. The only other writer I can think of that I’ve read that’s like Susanna Kearsley is the woman who wrote The Phantom Tree.

Amanda: Is it Nicola Cornick?

Sarah: Nicola Cornick. I knew the last name.

Amanda: I, I knew ex-…

Sarah: I knew, I knew Cornick, but I was like – first my brain was like Cornish! Like, no, that’s not right. Nicola Cornick writes a lot like Susanna Kearsley. The vibes are very similar.

And, as we mentioned in the reviews episode, we did not do this intentionally, but she has a new book out in March!

Amanda: Yeah. I can’t remember the – The King’s Messenger?

Sarah: Yes, I, I’m so impressed? I just put the NetGalley link in the document ‘cause I wasn’t going to remember. But if you look at the cover on NetGalley, this one is very different. It is a gold filigree with, on top of an image of a bird, on top of a background of some flowers. So it’s not at all people-centered like her other covers. But this is taking place between 1613 – I think it’s all, wait, is it all 1613? Yes, set during the reign of James I, and all of the member reviews so far on NetGalley say that it’s atmospheric, it’s quieter, it’s a sweet love story, there’s some adventure. People really liked it! All five stars at this point.

Amanda: I’m on her web site right now in her Books section, and it’s interesting because she has all of her book covers in a collage, but every so often the cover will change to a different version of the book, and it’s very – for a second I thought I was going nuts, ‘cause I was like, Wait a second! That wasn’t the cover a second ago!

Sarah: Oh wow! It does! It’s a timed animation. That is so cool. Holy cow. And yeah, these covers are very different.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: One thing about Kearsley’s books, there’s a lot of covers where you’re looking at a redheaded woman from the back. Lot of redheads running away from you in these books. Got to be careful; they’re running away.

So the cover is all about this book; it’s perfect. The other headlines are Anne Rice, Christine Feehan – which is, you know, Amanda’s favorite part of RT – R. K. Lilley, Self-Publish Success – I don’t recognize that name. But a perfectly normal cover, perfectly decent cover, does what it’s supposed to do. Five stars.

Amanda: Five stars.

Sarah: We discussed this a little bit, but I wanted to talk about page 2 and page 3. So page 2 is an ad for No One Like You by Kate Angell, and we talked about this in the reviews. I talked about how you just stick a dog on it and it’s fine. So this is a cover with a Great Dane. If you’ve never met a Great Dane, they’re really big. They crap –

Amanda: Very big.

Sarah: They crap, and you need a full kitchen-size garbage bag to come and get that mess. Like, these are big dogs. And there’s this big, giant Great Dane with a leash wrapped around these two people. The dog is not actually there, and that leash is not actually there. You can sort of see that it’s been Photoshopped on top of these people. It’s not accurately denting their clothes. The, the person isn’t –

Amanda: The leash is not attached to the dog.

Sarah: The leash is not attached to the dog –

Amanda: It’s just Photoshopped to the dog.

Sarah: – and if you look under her hand, she’s just resting her hand on top of the folded leash? Like, it’s not actually through her wrist or over her hand. These people are going in the drink. They’re going in the water, and that dog is gone. Like, there’s no way that you continue standing when a Great Dane has decided to wrap the leash around you, even if it’s fake, and move somewhere.

Amanda: I love Great Danes so much.

Sarah: I do too! I would love to have one. I love a good couch potato, but they are so unhappily unhealthy when they are older, and I would feel so bad.

Amanda: Yeah. We had one growing up, but yeah, they have fairly short lifespans, but they are so precious.

Sarah: They love people, and they love couches. What was your Great Dane named? ‘Cause I did not know you owned a Great Dane.

Amanda: Loki.

Sarah: Perfect. Ten stars. No notes.

Amanda: He was a – [laughs] – he was a Harlequin, a Harlequin, so he had the white with the blue eyes –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – and the spots. Yeah.

Sarah: So cute!

Amanda: He was great.

Sarah: Then page 3, which is, we’re still in, like, the inside ads? This is an ad for Susan Mallery. Hot summer reads, Fool’s Gold, and it’s Hold Me, Kiss Me, Thrill Me, and then a stack of the books with some, like, fruits and beverages. Susan Mallery is really interesting. She’s one of the first offer, authors that I ever saw come up with a tagline. Hers is Read, Laugh, Love? The other thing that she did that was really interesting is that she had a whole website for Fool’s Gold. The, the town that all these books were set in had its own website, which I thought was very smart. Now if you go to Susan Mallery’s website, the Fool’s Gold website is still there, but you have to join her membership by signing up for her newsletter, so it’s free. So all of the members only stuff, you just have to sign up for the newsletter for it. Also very smart.

Amanda: Yeah, I remember it was like, Oh, what’s the weather right now in Fool’s Gold?

Sarah: Yeah! It would tell you! Susan Mallery has had one of the smartest marketing profiles of an author. I mean, you could write a whole case study in marketing studies for, about her, about her ability to market the town, market herself, brand herself – her branding skills are really, really good.

And then we get to page 4, where there’s boobs! Did you notice the boobs?

Amanda: I did not notice the boobs. I’m on page 4 looking for the boobs. Oh! There they are.

[Laughter]

Sarah: There’s a little, they’re talking about the RT convention, and there’s going to be a Steampunk Ball. This was when steampunk was trying to happen? And it’s just a picture of someone’s boobs!

Amanda: And it says Break out your cogs and corsets.

Sarah: And for the record, this corset does have cogs on it, so accurate, but also, it’s just her boobs!

Amanda: But also, like, Break out your cogs? Can you just – like, what do they – just reach into your pocket and – ?

Sarah: No, that’s, nonononono, that’s your Pogs. Your Pogs are in your pocket.

Amanda: I was a Pog kid –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – that’s for sure.

Sarah: Now, on page 6, the letter from Kathryn, and it is very sad. It is announcing that Bertrice Small has passed away, and they were, as we learned last month with that picture of them in their nighties, they were BFFs. There is a picture of Kathryn’s wedding in November 2008. I think Kathryn is wearing a tiara. She’s wearing this ice blue cape and gown. She looks fabulous, and Bertrice Small was one of her bridesmaids, which was adorable!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I also want to point out, in the letter she starts talking about the RT convention, and there’s some mention – [laughs] – of international bloggers?

>> We’ll not only showcase the spectrum of romance categories penned by hybrid Indian traditionally published authors, but also the coming together of international bloggers and readers from every corner of the planet.

Amanda: Every corner of the blogosphere, one might say.

Sarah: The blogosphere.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Now, I would just like to take a little credit. I don’t often do this, but the reason why bloggers were coming to RT is because RT would give me a conference room for free – bless them – to host a Blogger Con, one-day Blogger Con before RT. We would talk about getting on lists; we’d talk about growing your audience; we’d talk about affiliate sales and making money; and then we’d have, like, an open Q & A with some authors and editors. I reached out to all the publicists I knew. I did this for like five years! I think it was five years.

Amanda: This detail, I don’t know, just feels wild to read about, but Bertrice Small’s husband went to an RT convention –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Amanda: – in his World War II uniform!

Sarah: Yes, that was the Pittsburgh conference! That was my first one, where everyone went to the hospital and I had to tell everybody how to go to Mercy Hospital ‘cause it was the nearest one, because the hotel wasn’t done, and all the asthmatics couldn’t breathe. It was a terrible conference.

But yes, he was there, and he wore his World War II uniform. It was very cute.

Amanda: Crazy.

Sarah: He, I met him, like, towards the end of his life. You remember Bertrice invited me to see her etchings? He was, he was still there, and he was very elderly, very infirm. Holy shit, was that a charming man. [Laughs] It did not matter that he was –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – infirm. He was ready to charm all the ladies! He was a lovely, lovely dude.

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: So yeah, I’m curious about, it says there’s going to be a special tribute to Bertrice from friends and fans in the next issue, so I’ll have to take a peek and see what that was.

Amanda: But on page 8, there’s the, these, like, bags, the Jane Elissa originals made in the USA exclusively for RT Dallas. These…Cover Model handmade bags at the bottom.

Sarah: Okay, so I know, I know the name of the person who makes this fabric. Okay. There is a line of fabric that is literally, like, gay cowboys. If you search gay cowboy flower, fabric, you will find cowboy hunks, gay cowboys, sassy quilters. Here, wait, hang on; let me find – here, here! I will put this in the chat. There’s a whole blog entry showing you all of the different sexy fabric, basically. There’s construction guys and cowboys and lumberjacks and firefighters, and it’s just – and, oh, UPS guys. Nips everywhere. Nips and abs. So she basically cut out the figures from that fabric line and then appliquéd it onto bags on top of other pieces of fabric with big, gay cowboys. It’s brilliant.

Amanda: And the sales go to raising money for Leukemia Foundation, and I was curious –

Sarah: Mm-hmm?

Amanda: – how much are these bags?

Sarah: Mmm!

Amanda: Like, what, what would they cost? And so I found the website. It’s like hatsforhealth.com, and the bags, and there’s only one bag on sale, or for sale. And it’s going for two hundred and twenty-five dollars.

Sarah: Oh damn!

Amanda: And the bag itself is not cowboys, but it’s like – there’s a man in a cowboy hat on it – it’s just, like, a collection of men. It’s like an ode to New York – oh, Men at Work in NYC –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – is the, the theme.

Sarah: Yep, but if you look at the blog entry that I just sent you, a lot of those cutouts are from some of the fabrics in that other entry. Two hundred and twenty-five dollars!

Amanda: Oh, wait, there’s more! Well, that, no, that’s the only, the only man one.

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Amanda: There are other ones available for like eighty-five, one-oh-five, but this is the only one with hunky dudes.

Sarah: And you know what? Two hundred and twenty-five dollars is an entirely fair price for that much appliqué work and fussy cutting. I support this.

Amanda: And it’s, it’s going towards a good cause –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – so.

Sarah: Jane Elissa has been raising money for leukemia for a long, long time. She was one of the major leukemia ambassadors the year I did the Boner Donor Bingo for bone marrow donors, and she was reaching out to me about like, Can we work together? Is there any way we could do something together? And it didn’t work out, but she is a dedicated fundraiser for leukemia.

So the, the, the cover article is about Susanna Kearsley. It’s an interview with Susanna and Lauren Spielberg, and the first line is so good. This is a quote by historian Hugh Trevor-Roper, who inspired Kearsley with her own work, and it says:

>> History is not merely what happened. It is what happened in the context of what might have happened.

That is a really cool way, I think, to start an article about a historical – I guess she’s historical fiction – historical fiction, romance time-slip?

Amanda: Yeah, it’s hard to, like, put her in a solid category.

Sarah: Yeah, she is very hard to, like, pin down with a genre category, but I liked this interview. It was very simple, and Susanna’s a good interview. Like, she’s interested and interesting; she does a lot of historical research; she knows her history, so that makes the books very rich. But I thought that was such an interesting quote.

And now, Anne Rice.

Amanda: Every, every bloggers favorite.

Sarah: Gangster bloggers? Gangster bloggers. I actually was going through my, my cloud storage looking for something for my mother-in-law, and I found a lot of the sound files that I did where I was remixing songs about gangsters to be about blogging?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And I was having a real good time being really silly, because Anne Rice hated bloggers, hated reviewers, hated fanfic. Like, she didn’t like anything that we did. None of the things.

Amanda: Oh…can you imagine if she were still alive, seeing all of the books that were fanfic?

Sarah: How many Dramione and Reylo fics do we have at this point in, in print?

Amanda: So I think, like, the Reylo ones are slowing down, and the Dramione ones are ramping up, and I am so excited, because if I’m, like, at a Reylo fan like seven, I am, like, a Dramione fan like twelve. Like, that was my first pairing that I went to start reading fanfic about. So I’m so excited right now.

Sarah: Except for the whole, except for the whole Jedi genocide thing? Those are very similar energies.

Amanda: Yes! No. I have the type. I have a –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh yeah! That is not shade, by the way. That is not shade. I am just saying that that one aspect is different; everything else is the same chemistry, the same power imbalance, the same, like, scary, scary good. Like, yeah, I get it! It’s very in line.

Amanda: I take it, yeah, I don’t take it as shade. Sarah sent me an Instagram of, like, how astrological signs work together, like, when they’re…

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes!

Amanda: [Laughs] And I’m an Aries and Sarah’s a Gemini, and what was it, like, lots of ar-, arguments, but all vibes? What was it? I have to go find it!

Sarah: What was funny was that I sent it to you, and you’re like, Is this about me and Brian? I’m like, No, this is about you and me.

Amanda: [Laughs] No rules, just vibes and arguments. That’s what –

Sarah: Just vibes and arguments. I mean, fair, right?

Amanda: Yeah! I feel like thank God we’ve never argued with each other, but it’s like us arguing with, like, a hypothetical scenario – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – or topic.

Sarah: Or we’re just, like, arguing about what is it happening or what we disagree on, and we don’t read the same books, so, like, you could talk about books and I’d be like, Oh, that’s interesting! I’m not reading that.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Also, this blouse, this is a Lestat blouse. Like, this is a blouse that Lestat would wear? It has – okay. So it has a ruffly –

Amanda: Is it attached? Do you think the collar is attached, or is that, like, she just puts that on top for some extra razzle-dazzle?

Sarah: I don’t know, because the part that’s around her neck is a slightly different color than the part that’s on her shoulders and on her front? The, it’s like a, it’s a very puffy, drapey blouse, and it has that big, lacy ruffle going down the front, like you’re supposed to be wearing a tux with like an explosion of ruffles coming out of the neck? But up to her chin is this high-necked ivory piece of fabric that is absolutely bejeweled and vajazzled within an inch of its life. It, it is every bead that is on sale now on this neckpiece, and it’s got, like, medallions and drapes and pearls and strings and – it’s very Lestat. Very rock star blouse.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: So moving on, you wanted to talk about page 22.

Amanda: Yeah! So 22 is a, I think, two-page spread of little mini reviews, or not even – yeah, little mini reviews. There, it looks like they’re, the last sentence is sort of a criticism – of novellas, and this was a time in publishing where they had a lot of digital-first novellas? A lot of –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – publishers had, like, digital novella lines?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I’m trying to remember if any jump out – Pocket Star, that was one of them for sure.

Sarah: Avon Impulse. Although someone from Avon did make the mistake of saying digital is the new midlist at a, an event, and authors were like, Oh, well, forget it; I’m not going to do anything for Impulse then.

Amanda: …I don’t understand the green color-coding. Maybe it’s just nice to have a green shade. I don’t think there’s any reflection on what the different flowers –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: – and green text mean?

Sarah: No, every, every title is a different color green, but I think that’s just style and not significant.

Amanda: But yeah, I thought it was really interesting how novellas were popping off right now, ‘cause there’s a lot of representation. There’s, like, Harlequin; there’s St. Martin’s; there’s Avon. And how many known authors, too –

Sarah: Oh –

Amanda: – were just doing, like, digital novellas –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – as, like, an in-between or, like, a precursor to something that they have coming out.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I thought this was like a really cool feature that they did, and I feel like most publishers don’t do this anymore. I feel like a lot of those lines are closed –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – and any novellas I’m seeing have been, like, Amazon singles or, you know, like, audiobook or-, Audible originals, where I think – who did one for Kobo that was Kobo-only? I think Cara, Cara Bastone might have done one? But yeah, it seems like publishers aren’t doing them anymore, and if an author does them, they’re either tied to a retailer exclusive –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – or they’re just, like, self-pubbing it. I think Zen Cho, instead of publishing novellas, she wrote fanfic and published her, like, world environment fanfic on, think it was AO3 instead of making you buy this.

Sarah: I think Ilona Andrews does that too. For some of the Innkeeper series they’ve been serialized and then released.

This made me think, though: you know the new Olivia Waite space mystery is a hundred and twelve pages. It’s a very –

Amanda: Is it by Tor?

Sarah: It, yes, it is by Tor.com, and it is a very short book, given, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – other books that are, that I’m being pitched are like four hundred and ninety-nine pages! This one is a hundred and twelve, and I’m like, Oh, give it to me right now. That is the amount of attention that I can spend at this moment. I do not have a lot of extra brain attention. I’m a little stressed. [Laughs]

Amanda: I don’t have any basis for this, but I feel like Tor.com started as novella-only, because if you look at Murderbot is Tor.com, and those started off pretty tiny. A Psalm for the Wild-Built –

Sarah: Also, yeah.

Amanda: – by Becky Chambers, also Tor.com, pretty tiny. Seanan McGuire’s Wayward Children series, novella length, also Tor.com. Yeah, I remember when Tor.com started publishing, at first I was like, These books are teeny-tiny, and you want me to pay hardcover?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: And I have.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: I’ve come around for sure. [Laughs]

Sarah: Tor.com also sells without DRM, if I’m remembering correctly, and they regularly make major titles free before the release of the next one. Like, you told me that Murderbot’s, the first four novellas of Murderbot were free before the novel was released, and I was like, Ooh, damn!

Amanda: Yeah. They were running some, like, really cool promo for that.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. And if you look at this novella article in RT, there’s, there’s people who were very active in erotica. Like, Red Garnier is in here. Maisey Yates is still writing. J. R. Ward and Gena Showalter in here, are, are in here too, and Karen Hawkins, who now writes women’s fiction and does books with Lauren Willig and – who’s the third one? Karen White, Lauren Willig –

Amanda: Beatriz Williams.

Sarah: Ah, wow, you’re good! That’s why, this is why I have you here, ‘cause I don’t remember. Melody Anne, I remember that; like, I remember that. There were a lot of people! Charlotte Stein, oh damn! Novellas were hopping at this time.

So page 26, I just love – [laughs] – I just love this…

Amanda: I know; I saw it too, and I’m like – [laughs]

Sarah: So this is an article, again, May 2015: “Female-Driven Fantasy Takes the Lead in YA.” This is by Elissa Petruzzi, who is a great writer. The headline under the signature picture is “Those sword-wielding royals? Those lethal assassins? They’re girls!”

[Laughter]

Sarah: They’re girls?! What?!

Amanda: For me, like, in my head I, I read, like, Those sword-wielding royals, those lethal assassins – yeah, they’re girls.

Sarah: They’re girls!

Amanda: [Laughs] Like –

Sarah: But, like, they also talk about Robin McKinley, Tamora Pierce, Garth Nix, always been writing female-forward fantasy here.

Amanda: But also Harry Potter?

The eerie silence. [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s not a girl.

Amanda: I think they’re including it because of Hermione? That’s my guess.

Sarah: Either that, or Harry is trans and Rowling just didn’t tell us! I could go with either, honestly.

Amanda: Revisionist history!

Sarah: Well, she does it! Why can’t I? I have just as much right.

Amanda: Okay, no, no, no, no! They’re saying that one of the potential reasons that this trend has started was because of Harry Potter.

Sarah: Wait, what?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay. The books that they have at the bottom of the page, though, to serve as examples of YA fantasy that’s female-forward? Grave Mercy by Robin LaFevers – I guess that’s how you say that; if I said that wrong I’m sorry – Daughter of Smoke and –

Amanda: LaFevers.

Sarah: LaFevers? Really?

Amanda: Yes, I think so, ‘cause I worked for, I think it’s LaFevers ‘cause I worked for Houghton Mifflin –

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: – when these were coming out.

Sarah: Thank you. So Robin LaFevers, Daughter of Smoke and Bone by Laini Taylor, The Orphan Queen by Jodi Meadows, An Inheritance of Ashes by Leah Bobet, and Angelfall by Susan Ee – I think it’s E-e or Ee? Angelfall was the biggest book when it came out. Everyone was talking about that book. And it was also like sisters in peril, so people were like, Sarah, don’t read that, and I said, Okay!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Now, page 29: 28 and 29, we have a little feature where they’re profiling an indie author, and I don’t want to name the author ‘cause I don’t have a problem with the author. I have a problem with this repeated trend and all of this coverage of self-published authors finding success. So – [sighs] – this type of article includes the following paragraph:

>> About four months after my first book was released, my husband was able to leave his less-than-rewarding job to spend more time with me and our boys, but also to work for me and what we now call the family business. He has his own office in the house where he handles countless details of our company, including scheduling, financing, our website, and foreign translation. You see, I have more things to do than I have time for, and I couldn’t be more thankful for that.

First of all, a piece of advice from me to you: don’t do business with people you are not prepared to sue. Could be your family; could be your friends; could be your spouse. If you are not prepared to see them in court, don’t do business with them, full stop. ‘Cause it could go bad very fast, and then you’re stuck living in the house with someone who screwed up your business.

Number two: what qualifications does the spouse have to take over this kind of work? These are specialty skills, and I have had the husbands of authors who are successful in self-publishing reach out to me as marketing directors or marketing managers and make absolutely astonishingly bad marketing skills that I then have to talk them out of.

So, like, I really dislike this whole, We have a family business, and my husband could quit his job and work for me, and all I can think of is, This is a bad idea. Put that money in the bank. This will not last forever.

Amanda: Yeah, I had a note of that it’s giving, I work this MLM business so I can retire my husband.

Sarah: Hundred percent. This is absolutely – and this keeps repeating, right? You have women who become successful influencers like, I retired my husband, and now he works for me. I cannot think of a person I would like to work for less than my husband, and I absolutely know that he does not want to work for me. [Laughs] It may, it may work great in a romance! Not for me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And, I mean, how many times have we seen the self-publishing market flip and move over, and this is popular, and that’s popular, and Amazon’s promoting this, but they’re not promoting your next book. Like, this has happened to person after person after person. The idea that this is, like, the self-published life, where you can retire your family and you can, you can – like, it’s great, awesome, fantastic. I love financial security for everybody, but this whole, like, I’m going to retire my husband and now he works for me? The minute I see that I’m like, Oh no.

Amanda: I had the same, I had the same thought earlier today about book influencers –

Sarah: Oh yes.

Amanda: – right? Like, they have so many followers now, so many eyeballs on them now –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – but, you know, like, what are they doing to make sure they’re supported ten years from now?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: Because social media and attention move fast.

Sarah: So do the platforms! We had BookTube, then we had Bookstagram, now we BookTok. Now BookTok isn’t as great because TikTok is different, so what’s the next thing? The other thing about influencing that I really want to read someone smarter than me talk about is how so much of influencing is the performance of wealth or the aesthetics of what they think wealth is. And so you have, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – This is my perfectly gray and beige, you know, aesthetic, and this is all my wealthy stuff, and I have this name brand thing, and, like, the performance of affluence is part of being an influencer.

Amanda: Yeah. And I think, like, too, if you think of, like, BookTokers or Bookstagrammers, you have, like, this beautifully curated, like, reading room. Like, Oh, my husband built me these built-ins; whatever. Like, I purchased the viral reading chair from Costco. Like, whatever! I’m curious too how those display – like, I have all these special editions and whatever – how those displays of wealth for reading, how the public might respond to them as we possibly get further and further into a financial crisis –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda: – as, as a country, and for a lot of people reading can be a hobby that is relatively affordable. You’ve got your local library – God willing they still exist. Maybe you have a budget and you sort of watch out for sales of, like, Oh, this book I’ve been waiting for is finally, like, a dollar.

Sarah: You’ve got Kobo Plus, you’ve got Kindle Unlimited, and if you keep up with a –

Amanda: Used bookstores.

Sarah: Yeah, precisely!

Amanda: So reading can be a good hobby if you’re, like, tight on the purse strings, and so I’m curious how those, like, displays of, like, wealth in a reading space –

Sarah: It will become something not so admirable.

Amanda: Yeah, like, no one wants to read about a billionaire anymore.

Sarah: Right. That’s definitely – you called that trend, for sure. But also, think about how much influencing is just conspicuous consumption. I bought this; I bought this; this is my Temu thing. Like, how many Instagram channels are there where it’s people just showing off stuff they got at Amazon, stuff they got on Temu, stuff they got on, what is it wish.com? The other – Alibaba, whatever. That performance of acquisition and the performance of shopping is also part of being an influencer, and with reading it’s a slightly different thing that so much of it is about the aesthetics of wealth? It’s not going to work very much longer.

But I’m really glad that we moved out of this period of talking about self-published authors as if being successful in self-publishing in 2015 is the same as setting up a long-term, sustainable business, because I don’t think that it is anymore.

Amanda: I – [laughs] – you know, independently publishing your book, self-publishing – I will never forget, I think there was a Jezebel article that they interviewed authors who were writing, I think it was Bigfoot erotica?

Sarah: Oh, yeah, yeah! The Bigfoot erotica. Yeah. I remember them.

Amanda: Yeah, and how she was making up to thirty thousand dollars a month!

Sarah: That is not sustainable. Amazon is not going to sustain that level of payout to one person unless they absolutely have to and they really like you and your name is Jeff.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Anyway. Did not like and I still don’t like the trend of portraying self-publishing success as something that is going to happen and then be sustained to the point where you can potentially endanger your family stability by retiring your husband? I mean, if you want to, if you want to quit and start your own job, that’s great. I did, I did that, but I also did that because I have financial security because I am married. Like, I will fully own that at all times. I, I do not like the whole, I’m now in charge of the family business! I’m like, Until Amazon changes the algorithm! How many authors do you know got the big Amazon promotional push for one book that never came back? They just move onto the next thing.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Yep. But, you know, we’re ten years in the future, so we can talk with authority.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Page 35, we have a buttsecks cover.

Amanda: I, I also wanted to talk about this cover, because I am, I like to be comfortable, okay? Everyone asks, Amanda, how do you look so young? It’s ‘cause I don’t go outside. I don’t let the sun touch this skin if I can help it. The fact that there are people on a cover –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – appearing to have some backdoor activities on, like, a, a rock face?

Sarah: On a hillside.

Amanda: So –

Sarah: On a rock.

Amanda: Hillside surrounded by, like, dead tree.

Sarah: Yep. Super hot, man! How are you not turned on by this?

Amanda: Outdoor sex is a no-go for me. No, thank you. If I feel just a whisper of what could be a bug on my body?

Sarah: I’m out! Do you remember when everyone used to talk –

Amanda: I don’t care if it’s maybe a stray hair!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: If it, if it feels like a bug, I’m going to freak out and we’re done.

Sarah: That’s a no from me, Dawg. Also, everyone talked about how, like, Oh, I guess having sex on the beach is so hot. No-ho! Sand bad, very bad!

Amanda: No…

Sarah: Yeah. And this is Kilts and Daggers by Victoria Roberts. Obviously Victoria Roberts does not make her own covers, but these two are doing the deed from the back door on this cover. Also, her dress looks like it’s made of denim.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I cannot wait to share this cover, ‘cause this, there was a whole bunch of covers where it really looked like they were just, you know, backing up the Jolly Roger to the front door.

Amanda: He’s not even putting a blanket down. Like –

Sarah: No, it’s her dress! It’s fine.

Amanda: Hate it.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: No.

Sarah: Not a fan, I agree.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So you wanted to talk about page 47.

Amanda: Yeah. It’s another ad –

Sarah: Oh my God! I missed that the first time! Ah!

Amanda: [Laughs] My comment was, Are his intestines falling out? And it’s an ad for Knight of Notion Av-, or Knight of Ocean Avenue by Tara Lain, and it’s a guy who looks like he’s probably a handyman or construction worker, ‘cause he’s got, like, that tool belt with all the pockets, and he’s, like, leaning against a, you know, some shiplap or whatever. And there’s this red thing tied around his waist, and I know that sometimes construction people have, like, rags or bandanas to wipe sweat, but this looks very long, ‘cause it’s going through his belt loops –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – tying around his waist. It is like this reddish-pink, and there’s something about how it’s, like, knotted or twisted, and it very much looks like intestines are falling out of his torso.

Sarah: It’s the fact that they’re right under his abdomen and they’re curly and curved. It looks like small intestines are emerging into his tool belt. I, I missed that, and then we scrolled to it and I went, Oh God! Oh!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, man! Those are –

Amanda: Yes…

Sarah: – that is, in fact, intestines!

Amanda: On 53, another hat watch!

Sarah: Hat!

Amanda: We’ve got another hat, folks!

Sarah: Good, and it’s –

Amanda: Of course –

Sarah: – inspirational.

Amanda: – inspirational, always. [Laughs]

Sarah: Look at that dress, though! It’s got a high, square neck with a contrasting fabric and sort of like a mock turtleneck with trim…that’s a nice dress, but that hat! Ho! That’s a nice one.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I cannot wear hats like that. I can’t wear hats really at all; they give me headache. That’s a good-looking hat.

So page 57 is a full-page ad for Colleen Hoover, Confess. What if the only way to –

Amanda: Who?

Sarah: I don’t know. Colleen Hoover.

Amanda: Who’s that? [Laughs]

Sarah: So one of the things that I have found so amusing about the whole It Ends with Us ongoing, endless drama is that people are still –

Amanda: [Laughs] It sounds like it will never end with us.

Sarah: It will never end with us, and we’ll never get the sequel ‘cause it’s just, everything’s going bad. So the thing about the, the ongoing It Ends, It Never Ends with Us is that there are still a segment of people who talk about Colleen Hoover as if this is like a new thing, and I’m like, She has been famous in publishing for more than ten years. Like, don’t be silly!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, we, we know! We know the history of Colleen Hoover. We’ve, we watched this happen for ten, fifteen years now, but everybody’s like, Wow! Self-publishing dynamo! I’m like, Yes, but it wasn’t, like, yesterday.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Book is like fifteen years old! Anyway.

Page 81, there is an ad, and it is just incredible, and I wish to discuss it. So page 81: this ad has a very interesting quote at the top! Did you notice the ad on page 81 and the quote at the top?

Amanda: No. I know we, I recognized the cover, ‘cause I knew we reviewed it, but look, it’s Carrie!

Sarah: Yep! The title, the headline quote in this ad is, One of my favorite couples ever – Carrie S. at Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, A rating. Please note that they put an asterisk for the I in Bitches. RT has its limits, or maybe this is, this is Anna, this may be Anna Richland’s ad; she may have done this herself, ‘cause I don’t see any notice of the publisher. I mean, the publishing icon is on the cover, but this is probably her ad. Carrie’s the top quote!

Amanda: I will never forget the first time I saw a quote that I gave, and I saw it the other day at Lovestruck Books. I was with a friend, and I saw it on the shelf.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: It’s Amanda Bouchet’s Nightchaser –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – and it has a quote of mine from when I reviewed A Promise of Fire, and it’s on the back cover, and it’s still on the back cover, and it just, I have two versions because I have the book, and then I have the, like, like, ARC presentation? It was, like, wrapped in this beautiful paper –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – with, you know, like a graphic on it, and my quote is on the graphic, so I still have a copy that’s wrapped in – [laughs]

Sarah: That’s like a new-in-box ARC!

Amanda: I know! [Laughs]

Sarah: If that were a figurine it’d be worth a lot of money!

Amanda: I know! But yeah, I’ll never get over the fact that, like, sometimes I’ll see my quotes on things or just, like, even on the Amazon listing, if you scroll down you can see, like, Editorial reviews!

Sarah: Yep. It is never going to stop being a thrill to see quotes from the site used as book promo. I mean, it’s obvious, obviously that’s, you know, you’re going to do that. Like, I understand that this is a completely normal thing. It is never not going to thrill me to bits.

So on page 89, this book cover for A Match Made on Main Street by Olivia Miles, this is the most 215 outfit I, 2015 outfit I’ve ever seen. It is skinny jeans, a short-sleeve blouse, and flats. Everyone wore this. I wore this. This was my outfit. I wore this; everyone wore this.

Amanda: [Indistinct]

Sarah: Yeah. Skinny jeans and flats.

Amanda: I mean, you can pry my skinny jeans off my cold, dead body.

Sarah: On page 90, I wish to hear you share your thoughts about yet another incredible two-page Christine Feehan ad. There is nothing more recognizable.

Amanda: What’s the quote of, like, Nothing is certain in life except death and taxes?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: And then Christine Feehan covers. Like, that’s what I hear!

Sarah: A hundred percent.

Amanda: [Laughs] She has not changed –

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: – a lick, and I love it so much. There’s always a, like a partial person –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – usually a man, but sometimes a woman, and there’s usually like a big old jungle cat. What I thought was funny was the ad has like two columns of previous books, and they’re all kind of jungle-y, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: They’ve got lush foliage and some, looks like misty and rainy, and big jungle cats. And, but the back image is the silhouette – it’s, like, really dark – of a woman in a dress and a shirtless man with a cowboy hat. And – [laughs] – then it says, The heat of the jungle comes to Texas.

Sarah: Does the jungle need to come to Texas?

Amanda: I don’t think so. If I were the jungle, maybe not. They never change –

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: – and I hope they never do –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – because, I mean, I think we can all, as readers, get annoyed when, like, a cover theme changes halfway through a series, and you’re like, Fuck! Now the aesthetic is ruined!

Sarah: [Laughs] This is not something that has ever bothered me, but I know certainly that it bothers other people.

Amanda: So annoying! Just because, like, you have them all lined up, and then, like, one is just like the odd –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – odd man out. But they have never changed. I wonder if it’s in her contract, or she just reviews it. She’s like, I swear to God, if you give me an illustrated cover I’m walking right out of here.

Sarah: On page 105, we have an ad that both Amanda and I were like, Oh, for fuck’s sake! [Laughs] Amanda’s shaking her head and rolling her eyes. It is for Loose Id of blessed memory.

>> Slip the leash of boredom. Download eBook romances today.

And the co-, the, the headline is Yes, you may, and there’s four books on, I guess those are iPads? But the top – okay. The top is a pair of heels, and they’re lace-up boots with big buckles on the ankle and a whip coming down to the ground, and the heels of the shoes are through some handcuffs, and there’s a rose right between them, and the feet are out like first position in ballet. How big of a platform do you think, do you think that’s a six-inch platform? That could be six or seven inches of platform right there.

Amanda: The, yeah, the platform itself probably six, and the heel is slightly longer.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: The thing is, is that whip – and if I’m looking at it right –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – I think that’s, like, the handle! Right?

Sarah: [Laughs] Where’s the rest of it?

Amanda: Is that the handle?

Sarah: Is that, like, tucked into her boot? Yeah, that is the handle.

Amanda: Well –

Sarah: There’s a wrist strap.

Amanda: – that’s the thing; it’s like, How the fuck is she going to bend down –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – to grab that handle without killing herself?

Sarah: She’s going to roll her ankles.

Amanda: I’m hoping no one is standing in these and they just positioned the shoes with no body in them.

Sarah: Oh, I really hope that’s true. I hope that’s true, because I don’t want anyone to have to wear those. They’re going to snap their tendons!

Amanda: I would be pissed –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – if I were this model and I put on these shoes and I had to do all these photos, and then the ad comes out and it’s just ankles downward, and you wouldn’t even know that I was in them. I want credit!

Sarah: You should get credit for wearing those shoes for as long as you wore them, because those are absurd. I want to know where those shoes ended up. I know Loose Id is no more. Where do you think those shoes are, are now?

Amanda: [Laughs] I don’t know. Hopefully in the garbage.

Sarah: The last page of the magazine is a full-page ad for Darynda Jones’ Eighth Grave after Dark. This is a series where every single cover was fucking amazing.

Amanda: But I don’t love that it says preggers and ready to pop. I hate the word preggers, first of all –

Sarah: But she’s preggers and ready to pop in an abandoned convent!

Amanda: We all have, like, words that immediately put us off, and preggers is one of them, and I hate it! Oh my God.

Sarah: [Laughs] But this is a good cover. It’s got a watch and a bracelet that have skulls on them. The thing I love is the first book, First Grave on the Right, those are some really expensive sandals. I think those might have been Alexander McQueen.

Amanda: I think we did a post about it, if I remember correctly.

Sarah: Yeah. Every cover in this has rocked. So yay! Good for her.

Amanda: I knew – yes! You mentioned:

>> Tell us in the comments which of the accessories on the covers you would want most and you’ve entered to win. It would be a fun shopping trip. The shoes on the first cover are from Alexander McQueen and are usually around nine hundred dollars if you can find them.

My brain is a fucking vault, and this was posted May 25th, 2015, probably as promo for this release.

Sarah: For this book. Holy shit! First of all, that’s terrifying. I just need you to know that that level of reference librarian brain is terrifying to me. But yes, I am very impressed. I’m trying to google lens search to see if anyone is selling them, and I cannot find anyone with the skull sandals. Also, feet for free on that cover.

Amanda: Unbelievable.

Sarah: What a different time it was.

Amanda: I know. [Laughs] You could just post your feet with wanton abandon! I guess.

Sarah: So what did you think of this issue?

Amanda: I say this a lot about issues that we discuss that I – [laughs] – I’m, like, cognizant for, that I experienced firsthand? So I like those. Lots of weird ads and features in this one. I mean, it’s no Jettison, as we discussed earlier, but it’s a bit of a time capsule, right?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Of, like, fashion, you know, the, the Main Street book cover with the flats and skinny jeans. And seeing, you know, previously in the reviews episode, the start of A Court of Thorns and Roses.

Sarah: The Wrath & the Dawn.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: An Ember in the Ashes, yeah.

One thing I find fascinating as we jump back and forth in time periods is the mid 2000s is definitely a time when marketing was changing. How books were marketing and what, how books were marketed and what the marketing looked like, even what the covers looked like, were all starting to change? I mean, I think that’s why the Darynda Jones series is so interesting because it was very specific in its vibe and its aesthetic. But there’s all of these different cover styles, and the way that books are marketed and advertised and what they looked like was shifting because digital publishing and indie publishing, where the authors had more freedom to design a cover that they felt fit the book better, and the cover, the, the design of self-published books, like, you could follow that for ages and be fascinated. The, the difference between the self-pub and the traditional pub and what they look like is really changing a lot. That’s really interesting to see sort of from a thirty-five-thousand-foot view.

Amanda: And also, assassins can be girls now! [Laughs]

Sarah: I know! They’re girls! Can you believe it? They’re girls! [Gasps] Shocking!

Amanda: Every time we keep saying girls, I keep hearing –

Sarah: Girls!

Amanda: – the clip from the Beastie Boys song. Girl!

Sarah: Girls! [Hums] All I really want are girls! [Hums] I want some assassin girls! [Hums]

Amanda: [Laughs] That’s what I keep hearing…

Sarah: I mean, perfectly legit response.

Together: Girls!

Sarah: Can you believe it? They’re girls!

Amanda: Like I can’t, I can’t believe it’s not butter. Girls!

Sarah: [Snorts] I can’t believe it’s girls! [Laughs]

Amanda: I can’t believe it’s not boys this time! [Laughs] They’re girls!

Sarah: I had a poll up on the Patreon to allow people to choose the subtitle of the episode that’s coming out this week.

Amanda: Oh my God.

Sarah: I will share the result with you.

Amanda: Yeah…

Sarah: The five subtitles in reverse order from least to first –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – popular: number five: You Can See Those Piggies. Number four: to my shock, It’s Extreme Troy!

Amanda: Troy! Wasn’t extreme enough, apparently.

Sarah: Wasn’t extreme enough, and tied with: He’s So Shiny.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Number two: Chest Hair and a Dead Woman! And the number one, which is the subtitle: We Need to Bring Back Hoyden.

Amanda: [Still laughing]

Sarah: So we’re going to have to bring back hoyden. That’s our, that’s our job this year, bringing back hoyden.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again to Amanda for hanging out with me. I will have links to all of the books we mentioned as well as all of the places on the internet that we think you should visit. There will also be a visual aids post at Smart Bitches, and the link will be in the show notes.

If you are in the Patreon, you get the full PDF scan of each issue – you can read the whole thing – but we do a post with some of the highlighted ads so everyone can see the absolute wow that is Romantic Times through history. I really love doing this, so I’m having a really good time.

As always, I end with a terrible joke. This is really bad, and I should have told it last week, but I missed my note to use this joke, so now I’m using it now.

What do you get when you have an opinion but not 3.14?

Give up? What do you get when you have an opinion but not 3.14?

You’ve got an onion.

Get it? ‘Cause there’s no pi? [Laughs] It probably works better visually, but I really like it! I don’t even know where I got that joke. I don’t have any source notes on that. If you told me this joke, please tell me, and I will give you credit. I’m much better about keeping source notes. I don’t know where I got that one.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend. We will see you back here next week!

And in the words of my favorite retired podcast Friendshipping, thank you for listening; you’re welcome for talking.

[end of music]