465. TV, Book, and Mayo Recs with Sarah and Amanda

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Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 465 – wow! – of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and Amanda is back, and we are taking more of your questions from the Patreon community. We have inquiries about TV shows; book recommendations; mayonnaise, of course; summer treats; and middle school favorites.

Thank you to Laura B, Karelia, Christina B, and Phoebe for all of the questions, and thank you to our Patreon community for making sure this and every episode has a transcript. If you would like to have a look at our Patreon community, it is patreon.com/SmartBitches.

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We talk about a lot of things in this episode, and of course we will have links to all of them in the show notes, which are attached to the podcast app that you’re listening to or at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

But now, let’s do this episode: on with me and Amanda, talking about all the things.

[music]

Sarah: Ready for more questions?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: All right, you got coffee?

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: All right. Has Linus left the room?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Anytime I get on, like, Discord or start talking to another human being, he immediately leaves.

Sarah: He’s like, ugh, I cannot.

Amanda: He might wander back in. You might see him.

Sarah: Right. You ready for your first questions?

Amanda: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Okay. We’ve got good questions on this one!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: So Christina B would like some recommendations for sit-coms. She says, or they said,

I’ve finished Superstore and Schitt’s Creek, so now I’m rewatching Parks and Rec and New Girl. Please give me some recommendations for what to watch next. Thanks.

Okay, well, you are asking –

Amanda: Which is, which is weird, because we’re both bad television –

Sarah: I was going to say, you may not be asking the exact right people –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – but I can tell you what not to watch.

Amanda: Mmm.

Sarah: Last night we watched –

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: – America: The Motion Picture –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – on Netflix.

Amanda: Is it the cartoon?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Okay, one of my coworkers at this bookstore loved it.

Sarah: Okay, it is so –

Amanda: But he, it was a man, so take that with a grain of salt.

Sarah: Okay. It was calibrated for a very specific sense of humor that was not mine.

Amanda: Okay! [Laughs]

Sarah: It is gigantic, hypertrophied, super-muscular presidents, and –

Amanda: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah: – Channing Tatum does a great job as bro, bonehead George Washington, and –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – Jason Mantzoukas does –

Amanda: Mantzoukas, who’s wonderful.

Sarah: – does exactly what you expect him to do.

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: Andy Samberg is Benedict Arnold, and you have all of this really great talent, and there’s maybe three whole jokes that are good, and it’s almost as if the whole movie was built around these three jokes. It’s –

Amanda: Okay. [Laughs]

Sarah: – super, it – and there were so many times when Adam and I looked at each other and were like, what the fuck are we watching? I cannot think –

Amanda: You know, my –

Sarah: – I, it, like, broke my ability to have synaptic function. It was – ‘cause, you know, good and bad is a quadrant, right? There’s Good, Bad –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – Enjoyable, and Not Enjoyable, and this was –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – probably supposed to land in Bad and Enjoyable, and it did not land there for me. I was very confused.

Amanda: One of my coworkers showed me a clip of, like, I don’t know, they were discussing, like, T-shirts, and they’re like, ooh, it’s so soft. Is it a tri blend? No, I think it’s a quad blend, and they’re just like –

Sarah: Yes, that’s in the beginning.

Amanda: – rubbing their shirts. And he showed it to me, and I didn’t think it was nearly as funny as he did. So, well.

Sarah: Uhhh, yeah.

Amanda: Now I don’t have to watch it. That’s fine.

Sarah: No! I would suggest not? Unless you are with people who are very funny along with you when you watch somewhat questionable writing, and maybe you’re drunk or high.

Amanda: Yeah, I was going to say.

Sarah: Might be fun if you’re high; it might be really fun if you’re baked. I was just, like, I was just reading Reddit through most of it because I – [laughs] – I was, like, oh, there’s the, there’s the joke. Okay, good job! I’ll wait like, you know, ten minutes till the next one.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But it wasn’t worth an hour and thirty-eight minutes of movie!

Amanda: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah: So in terms of television for Christina, I can tell you don’t watch that unless you are –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – in a room with funny people and in some way in an altered state maybe? That would be good?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: For me, I would recommend Letterkenny, which was one of my favorite shows ever. It’s on Crave in the, in the Canadian north, and it’s on Hulu in the US. I know that, like, season seven or eight – I don’t do numbers very well – they’ve just filmed the next two seasons, and they’re very short –

Amanda: Mm!

Sarah: – episodes, but they are wonderfully funny, and they have the same sort of tone as Superstore and Schitt’s Creek, where underneath it is a foundation of kindness, which I like in my television. I don’t like mean humor; I don’t like cringe humor; I don’t like humiliation humor; it’s not my thing. I would also recommend Brooklyn Nine-Nine with the caveat that it is about police officers. It is also aware of the fact that it is about police officers.

And in the comments to this question on Patreon, Jacquelyn suggested Rutherford Falls, which I have never watched, but which would probably be a good fit.

Amanda: My suggestions – one, I don’t watch a lot of TV –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and when I do, I need a buddy, right, to hold me accountable to watch this show. So, like, all of these shows that I’ve watched, I’ve watched with, like, Eric, because if I’m left up to myself I will never watch anything.

Sarah: Why is that? Do you not like television?

Amanda: I don’t, I just feel like I am, I am a chronic multitasker, where it’s like, I have to be doing a million things at once, so if I’m, if I’m playing a videogame I’m listening to, like, a YouTube video. Like, there’s always something else going on.

Sarah: That’s too much talking! That’s too many voices for me.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I just – whoo!

Amanda: With a TV show, like, you have to be present, and it’s easier for me to do that if I’m with someone who’s, like, watching it with me.

Sarah: Ahhh!

Amanda: ‘Cause, like, I’m spending time with someone and watching a TV show –

Sarah: So it is effectively multitasking.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: Got it.

Amanda: I’ve gamed the system!

Sarah: I get it!

Amanda: So my first one is The Good Place, which I believe is also done by the person, the show runner of Parks and Rec.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: It feels very similar. I think there’s only three or four seasons. Season two is probably the slowest of the three to four. But I thought it was such a really well crafted TV show, and they knew when to end it, right? Like, we’ve talked before about, like –

Sarah: Love that!

Amanda: – TV shows that just go on and on and on and on –

Sarah: Yes. That the goal is not to tell a story; the goal is to hit syndication and be, be in, in, in perpetuity –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – on multiple streaming platforms, yeah. I, yes.

Amanda: But this show, like, you, they knew when to end it, and they clearly had an end in mind when they started it, and so I think it’s just, like, a little, I don’t know, it’s a really, really good piece of television. All of the actors in it are wonderful. Ted Danson is just a delight in, in The Good Place.

Sarah: Did I ever tell you I met him?

Amanda: No!

Sarah: So I was an intern at the Democratic National Convention in 1996 – yeah, this would be ’96 –

Amanda: It was when you were in Chicago?

Sarah: I was in Chicago. I was an intern for the LA Times. Adam actually worked for the Democratic National Convention; he did all of their housing arrangements? So he knows lots and lots and lots about hotels that were in Chicago, but the ones that were there in 1996; I don’t know about any of them now.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But I was being sent from the press tent to the convention center for something. This was when I learned I didn’t want to be a journalist, because I was in the press tent with all of the real journalists, like all the full-time employees –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and they were such gross assholes to the interns and complained constantly.

Amanda: Really took the shine of glamour off of that.

Sarah: Oh yeah. I was like, this is horrible. I don’t ever want to work with any of these people. Forget this.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So I started my own amateur journalism, and look where it got me! [Laughs] Journalism without a license, barely wearing real pants.

Amanda: In a shitty jerk tent, apparently.

Sarah: Ugh. People complain about free food! How do you complain about the free food? And they would –

Amanda: I will go to anything if it has free food.

Sarah: Right? Me too!

Amanda: Even if the free food is shitty.

Sarah: Free food is the best! Gosh! So I’m walking into the convention center, and there’s all of this press in front of me, but they’re all walking backwards, and I keep trying to get out of the way. I’m like, I’m in the way of somebody; somebody, some dignitary is coming through; somebody’s coming in. And I look behind me, and there’s nobody there, and then I start to get, like, really weirded out; like, am I screwing up somebody’s shot? Are they trying to get some sort of –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – like, establishing picture? I don’t know. And I look to my left, and there’s Mary Steenburgen and Ted Danson, and he’s just so quiet and unassuming. He’s just sort of, you know, mellow, walking, and the press is, like, losing their cool, and I – [laughs] – such a dork – I looked and went, oh, you’re the famous person!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: ‘Cause I knew it wasn’t me! And he goes, I think there are many other people here who are more famous than me, but yeah, probably.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: I was like, I like you! I’ve heard you’re nice, and this, this is, this is true!

Amanda: And you can also tell, like, the cast enjoyed being on set and –

Sarah: Can’t you tell?!

Amanda: – hanging out. Yeah, like, there are so many beside, be-, behind the scenes things of William Harper – I think that’s his name – who plays Chidi in the show [William Jackson] teaching, like, Ted Danson, like, dance moves and how to –

Sarah: Ah!

Amanda: – how to do, like, the Floss dance –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – and it’s just so sweet! So I would recommend that one.

I would recommend What We Do in the Shadows, which is, if you like that kind of mockumentary, Parks and Rec feel, this is that but with vampires, and it’s based on a movie that came out in New Zealand with Taika Waititi and Jemaine from Flight of the Conchords. I actually think, I love the movie, but I think the TV show is better than the movie.

Sarah: It’s like vampires, but they’re bad at it.

Amanda: God, they’re so, they’re such idiots. But it’s such a fun series, and I think the next season, season three comes out in September, and that’s on Hulu. And I believe The Good Place is either on Hulu or Netflix.

Sarah: I think it’s Hulu. Or maybe it’s split between them at this point; who the hell knows? Eventually, someone will put them all together and reinvent cable.

Amanda: Oh yeah! So What We Do in the Shadows is so much fun. I really like Matt Berry who’s in it, who is in also this other mockumentary-type show called Toast of London, where he plays, like, a failed actor of sorts, and he’s, like, trying to get more gigs. That’s on Netflix.

And then lastly, this is on Apple TV, but my advice is get an Apple TV trial and watch Ted Lasso. It’s only ten episodes, and each episode is like a half an hour, so it’s like five-ish hours of your time. You could totally fit that in a week-long trial in my opinion. It is –

Sarah: If someone’s on the couch with you.

Amanda: If someone’s on the couch with me.

Sarah: But also, doesn’t the new season come out on the 30th? 29th?

Amanda: Twenty-, like the last week of July.

Sarah: So sometime in the last week of July. So what you want to do is time the free trial so that the next season is inside your free trial and, like –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – clear your schedule.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: You know, ‘cause you want to get that one week free; you want to watch this one show; time it correctly. You can watch the first season –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and then watch the second season, and then go into iTunes and cancel your subscription.

Amanda: It is, hands down, one of the best pieces of media I have ever seen –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – and is just so sweet and wholesome. Like, if you like, if you like kind TV shows –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – this is that. And it’s just, like, funny, and there’s, like, romance and great female friendships and great male friendships.

Sarah: So the, so the hype is, is, is worth it. The hype is right.

Amanda: I think so!

Sarah: ‘Cause we’ve talked before about how people being nonstop gushing about something kind of makes us both go – [grumbling noise].

Amanda: Ugh. Yeah, okay, yeah. So no. I feel like –

Sarah: I get it: you eated, you prayed, and you loved; I understand. Okay, moving on.

Amanda: The hype is, the hype is real.

And then, I haven’t watched it yet, but I’m very curious to watch it, and I’m excited to, and it’s also on Apple TV, so I might have to get a subscription, but it’s called Schmigadoon!?

Sarah: I’m sorry, it’s what now?

Amanda: It’s called Schmigadoon! and it’s got Keegan-Michael Key –

Sarah: I’m listening.

Amanda: – and Cecily Strong from Saturday Night Live –

Sarah: Uh-huh?

Amanda: – and they play a couple that’s kind of like on the rocks, and they get lost and they find, like, a nearby, like, town, and they can’t leave.

Sarah: Oh crap!

Amanda: And they’re, the town is technically a town you find in a musical. So these two idiots who are struggling in their relationship are essentially stuck in a musical –

Sarah: Oh my God, kill me.

Amanda: – and until they can find – [laughs] –

Sarah: Please kill me.

Amanda: – like, their relationship again.

Sarah: No.

Amanda: And I’m not a big musical fan, but this –

Sarah: No, I do not like. Mm-mm.

Amanda: With Keegan-Michael Key and Cecily Strong, though, it looks hilarious. I saw the trailer. It looks so good! [Laughs] I don’t know; I think it’s going to be fun.

But those are my three. Probably the only three TV shows I’ve watched in maybe the last four years.

Sarah: And if anyone who will be listening has suggestions for Christina, you can leave them in the comments, you can tweet at us. We would love to hear your suggestions for building a good TV watching list.

Amanda: Yeah, we’re not the best TV watchers.

Sarah: No! It is not my strength. It, it is something I am not superb at. I mean, I also – like, you just did that whole post about Asian dramas, and there are so many wonderful shows? That’s a multitasking I struggle with, because I’m reading the subtitles, and then eventually my brain –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – and my eyeballs are like, look, I need a, I need a break. This is a lot.

Amanda: That’s, that’s the thing is, like, I love Asian dramas, but I’m a, a subs over dubs watcher –

[Laughter]

Sarah: All I can think of is a big stack of, like, hoagies.

[More laughter]

Amanda: Sub sandwiches.

Sarah: I’m all in favor of those.

Amanda: But yeah, you, so you have to pay attention to –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – to read the subtitles –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and, man, that’s so, it’s difficult for me to just like sit down and, you know, devote my attention to it, and then, like, of course once I get started I watch like seven episodes in a row, and I’m, like, up till three in the morning, so –

Sarah: Right, ‘cause once you get going, the writing is so good and the story is so good. For me, the struggle is paying attention to what the actors are doing?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then paying attention to what the text is telling me. And that’s –

Amanda: And, and Asian dramas are so dramatic that I usually try to keep, like, a cry counter? How many times I cry?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And I think, like, I was watching an Asian drama called Fated to Love You. I really liked it, but I think it was like on episode twelve, and I’m like, all right, I’ve cried nine times so far, almost once an episode.

Sarah: [Laughs more] Christina also wants to know, on a whole other note, what is the weirdest thing Amanda has put mayo on? And then Karelia’s –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – commented, said, I love mayo; I’m always happy to hear about mayo. I just want you to know that (a) Ollie’s has a big-ass jar of Duke’s mayonnaise, so I have this big tub of mayonnaise, and it is all mine.

Amanda: Hmm!

Sarah: No one else in the house will eat it? And I have started using it for french fries, and I am so happy. I originally put, like –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – I put mayo on my plate when we had fries one night, just to mess with my kids, ‘cause they’re like, ooh, oh, that’s gross, Mom! Oh my gosh! And then I was like, hold up, this is really fricking delicious!

Amanda: I, I had groceries ordered the other day, and I needed more mayo, ‘cause I ran out of my, like, sixty-four-ounce jar –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – of Hellman’s.

Sarah: That’s what I got! I’ve got a big old jar!

Amanda: Yeah. And I guess I wasn’t paying attention to what I had ordered, and out, out of the bags I pull this, like, dinky eight-ounce thing of mayo! [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s not going to work!

Amanda: And I’m like, mm! [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s not enough! This’ll last me like two days! That’s like when you have a Costco-size box of cereal and end up buying a pint of milk.

Amanda: So, well, one, I love getting mayo questions, so thank you. And, two –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – I – [laughs] – I mentioned it –

Sarah: We’re not much on TV –

Amanda: I men- –

Sarah: – but we got, we got mayo skills here.

Amanda: Love mayo. I mentioned this at the bookstore the other day, that we were doing a podcast and you had just sent over the questions and I was looking at them, and I’m standing with my coworkers. I was like, oh, we have a mayo question! They’re like, what?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Excuse me? And yeah, I mentioned, I was like, yeah, I love mayo, and the question is, like, what’s the weirdest thing I put mayo on? And both of my coworkers, who are native New Englanders, like, visibly, like, shuddered.

Sarah: [Laughs more]

Amanda: And they’re like, would you eat mayo off a spoon? And I was like, yeah –

Sarah: Oh, for sure she would!

Amanda: – I would! Yeah, like, after –

Sarah: I’m surprised I haven’t seen this happen.

Amanda: [Laughs] – after I put mayo on sandwiches, I lick the knife and then toss it in the sink! They’re like, ugh!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So –

Sarah: Do I need to put a content warning for that? Like, trigger warning! We’re talking about licking mayo off a knife!

[Laughter]

Amanda: Maybe!

Sarah: At minute 22! [Laughs]

Amanda: Well, if you had asked me prior to this year, I would have said, like, I feel like my mayo, things that I put mayo on are normal?

Sarah: Yeah! They’re relatively expected! They’re, they’re, they’re –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – they’re mayo-adjacent.

Amanda: Like, I put mayo on my hot dog. Maybe that might be the weirdest thing. My hamburger. You know, like the grilled cheese trick. French fries.

Sarah: Ohhh.

Amanda: But, of course, I feel like right now what tops the list is a peanut butter and pickle sandwich –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – is the weirdest thing I’ve had mayo on.

Sarah: Which is entirely my fault. Well, you know –

Amanda: But also not bad!

Sarah: Not, surprisingly not terrible!

Amanda: It’s not bad! I thought it, I thought the peanut butter and mayo sandwich was better with the pickles –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – because it adds some crunch, right, and it’s not just –

Sarah: Yes, and there’s –

Amanda: – a creamy, soft sandwich. [Laughs]

Sarah: And there’s a difference in the level of tang –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – between the pickle and the mayo. This makes sense –

Amanda: It’s a tangy, creamy bite – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – that’s for sure! So I would say that’s the weirdest thing I’ve put mayonnaise on is –

Sarah: It was pretty weird.

Amanda: – peanut butter and pickle sandwich. It wa-, yeah, it wasn’t horrible! But I feel like I have a strong stomach anyway? Yeah, it didn’t make me gag or anything. It wasn’t bad. I don’t know if I would make it again on my own.

Sarah: I will link to that episode when I put the show up –

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: – so everyone can re-experience –

Amanda: But, like, I’ve, I’ve had –

Sarah: – me running around the house trying to get my kids to eat this. Ew, Mom! Ew, no, gross!

Amanda: With, and I asked, like, Stephanie. She’s like, no!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But, like, for my hamburgers and hot dogs, I’ll have, like, pickles or relish on it with mayo.

Sarah: Sure!

Amanda: And that’s, like, fine, so –

Sarah: I mean, it’s both, it’s both a, a source of creaminess and tang and glue to hold the toppings in place.

Amanda: It’s a binding agent! [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s a binding agent as much as it is a tangy, smooth –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – taste.

Amanda: But I will try, like, mayo on anything, really. If you’re like, hey, I think that would be go with mayo; I’m like, say no more!

Sarah: We have one more food, food question before we get into –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – other recommendations and requests. Phoebe says:

I had a friendly argument with a friend about putting both peanut butter and butter on my sandwich. What are your thoughts?

Now, this question does not reveal Phoebe’s position on this one. Were they pro PB and B –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – or were they against the peanut butter and butter?

Amanda: Yes, and also, butter –

Sarah: I have never tried this.

Amanda: – butter is different, right. Like, butter varies: you could have salted butter; you could have unsalted butter.

Sarah: Yep, yep. And the spreadable –

Amanda: Or you could have –

Sarah: – butter that has oil in it –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – is going to taste different from just softened stick butter.

Amanda: So my dad, the weirdest sandwich I’ve ever seen, but he loves it. It’s roast beef, catsup, and ice-cold, like, pats of butter. Like, it’s not even softened. It’s like a chunk of cold butter.

Sarah: [Sputters] Wait. So, like, sliced deli roast beef?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And then –

Together: – catsup.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And then pats of cold butter.

Amanda: Yeah. Like, they’re not, like, spreadable. You just, like, cut it off the block of butter –

Sarah: Chop, chop, chop.

Amanda: – put it on the sandwich.

Sarah: Like you’re making biscuits, only instead of cutting it into flour, you cut it into some catsup.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wow!

Amanda: So I feel like having those, like, stiff squares of butter is also a different sensation than, like, the spreadable butter.

Sarah: From a culinary perspective, that’s way out there.

Amanda: He’ll melt a Kraft single on a slice of apple pie.

Sarah: I can understand that –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – because it’s like a, it’s, it’s cheddar –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – adjacent, I guess.

Amanda: [Laughs] Cheddar-adjacent!

Sarah: I mean, it’s, it’s not a foo-, a real – [laughs] – it is a cheese food product.

Amanda: Like a Velveeta!

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: [Laughs] I think peanut butter and butter is fine.

Sarah: I will tell you –

Amanda: It sounds like a boring sandwich to me, but –

Sarah: I mean, it needs, needs some mayonnaise on it.

Amanda: [Laughs] Needs some mayo –

Sarah: And some pickles.

Amanda: – and pickles!

Sarah: Butter, peanut butter, mayonnaise, and pickles. Now we’re talking!

Amanda: Now we’re talking! Now, that’s a sandwich!

Sarah: You can – if I ever open a deli, that’ll be the Amanda.

Amanda: [Laughs] The Amanda, and everyone’s like, why is that on here? That’s disgusting!

Sarah: Well, you should try it, and there, there’s a reason why it’s on the menu, ‘cause you should try it. I will tell you, I made homemade peanut butter cups this weekend?

Amanda: Hmm!

Sarah: Oh my gosh. First of all, it was a recipe from Reddit that Adam sent to me, and I was like, oh yeah –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I can do that. So you melt chocolate. You can add oil to it, but I just melted some dark chocolate? Then you mix the peanut butter with a couple tablespoons of powdered sugar, which takes forever to mix.

Amanda: I can imagine your, like, arm gets tired.

Sarah: It makes such a mess. The powdered sugar’s like – [explosion noise] – everywhere. But once you get it all mixed together, it makes it cohesive just enough that once you put the melted chocolate in the bottom of the muffin, muffin tin, liner, little paper –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and you smooth it all out, you can roll the peanut butter into a little ball and make it into a patty and then just drop it in and cover it with chocolate. Holy crap, they are – first of all, there’s much more peanut butter, which is the correct ratio of peanut butter to chocolate.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: More peanut butter than, you know, your garden-variety Reese’s cup? But now I’m thinking I should crush up some pretzels –

Amanda: Mmm!

Sarah: – and put peanut butter and then pretzels and then the chocolate on top.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: This is what I’m thinking.

Amanda: Yeah, you should.

Sarah: I will, I will try that, and I will report back.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, I don’t think, you can’t go wrong with that. Like, I don’t think –

Sarah: No! I’m not going to add mayonnaise, though.

Amanda: – something bad will happen and then it’ll –

Sarah: I’m not going to add mayo.

Amanda: – taste disgusting.

Sarah: There’s not going to be any mayo, though. Just, just pretzels.

Amanda: Though! Though, okay – 

Sarah: Oh God.

Amanda: – you should prank Adam or one of the kids, and instead of putting a peanut butter patty, just put a pickle.

Sarah: Ah!

Amanda: Put, like, a little pickle chip.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’d be so mean. I love it!

Amanda: It’s kind of like the same size of, like, a little –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – peanut butter patty.

Sarah: Oh yeah! And let me tell you, peanut butter which is already sweet with confectioner’s sugar? That’s that good shit right there.

[music]

Sarah: We will be right back with more, but first I have two things to tell you about.

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And now back to my conversation with Amanda about pretty much everything.

[music]

Sarah: Right, you want to hit the next question?

Amanda: Karelia [kuh-rell-ee-uh], right? That’s what –

Sarah: Karelia [kuh-real-ee-uh], I think.

Amanda: Karelia.

Sarah: If we’re wrong, we, we, we’re sorry.

Amanda: So sorry!

I would love recommendations for a contemporary, forced-proximity romance where the characters had regular occupations/lives, so no bodyguard protects reality TV star from terrorists on a submarine. I do like bodyguards on submarines, that’s good stuff too, but I’m curious to read something closer to home.

Sarah’s response was pretty much twelve question marks.

Sarah: Uhhhhhhh –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – yeah.

Amanda: Okay. So –

Sarah: I could, I could, the only thing I could think of where they have regular occupations, forced proximity, was The Flatshare, where they’re not necessarily together because they’re leaving notes for each other, but –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – one character works the night shift, so sleeps during the day, and then the other character works the day shift. They’re, they’re kind of in the forced proximity of the apartment, but they’re never there at the same time. That’s just about the only thing I can come up with. However, Amanda has suggestions and links!

Amanda: I have a couple. Yeah, and links.

So my first thought, and this might be not quite what you’re looking for, but Whiteout by Adriana Anders is at the, the characters, like, one is a, is it a glaciologist? Like a scientist, and the other one is, like, the, I think, like, the cook that’s on base –

Sarah: Mm-hmm! Yeah.

Amanda: – in Antarctica.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So neither a bodyguard nor a reality TV star. But they kind of had a, have to battle the elements, and there’s some, like, weird, like, mercenary stuff that happens. However, the main characters aren’t rich and famous.

Sarah: Nope.

Amanda: I believe The Wedding Date by Jasmine Guillory starts with the characters trapped in an elevator?

Sarah: Yeah. They don’t stay there forever, though. That would be a very smelly romance.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wouldn’t want that.

Amanda: So it’s like, you know, minor forced proximity, but that is the event that kind of kicks off the romance, and they both have, like, normal jobs.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: And then there’s The Unhoneymooners by Christina Lauren.

Sarah: Ooh, good call!

Amanda: Yeah! So, like, enemies-to-lovers: the sister of the heroine and, like, the best friend of the hero are getting married.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: Everybody gets food poisoning except them, and they go on the honeymoon instead, because the honeymoon is nonrefundable. And they hate each other. So it’s like forced proximity in, I think it’s Hawaii? But in a very beautiful, tropical place, and they hate each other.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So. And I have two links. So one is in our Book Finder? We have the, like, forced proximity theme.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: That will give you every book we’ve mentioned on the site with forced proximity, so there, you’d have to weed some out. You can also –

Sarah: But you can spot contemporary pretty quickly.

Amanda: Yes, and in the Finder –

Sarah: Is, is the cover, is the cover illustrated? You’re fine!

[Laughter]

Amanda: And in the Book Finder you can kind of mark professions, right?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So you can make it more niche. We also did a Rec League with forced proximity stories that have inclement weather? Like, the characters are forced together because of some, like, weather or environment issue.

Sarah: Yep. Schools are closed; no half-day kindergarten.

Amanda: Yeah. So that might also be helpful since, you know, they’re, I feel like those might be less overtly, like, suspense with bodyguards and more like people are stuck in a shitty situation because, like, their car broke down or whatever. So you might be able to find some stuff there as well. So those are my suggestions.

Sarah: These are good suggestions.

Amanda: Thank you!

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: And also, Karelia also continues with another question.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Amanda:

I’m always curious about people’s thoughts on the word, on words, metaphors, etc., we have and don’t have to identify the female sexual anatomy. What works, what’s problematic, what’s changed in the past few years? Why have I never read a romance that uses the word vulva?

Maybe ‘cause vulva’s not a very sexy word, is my guess? [Laughs] I mean, that’s relative, right? You might think vulva’s a very sexy word. But I think, like, in terms of –

Sarah: But don’t forget the compliment! Don’t forget Karelia’s compliment.

Amanda: Oh, oh! The compliment is:

Anything you talk about will be fabulous. I can’t wait.

Sarah: Thank you!

Amanda: We’ve talked about mayo and TV so far, so.

Sarah: So now let’s talk about vulvas!

Amanda: [Laughs] Let’s talk about vulvas! I feel like the more scientific the word, the less sexy it is and the less likely we’ll see it in romance, but I feel like – I don’t know how else to say it, but I’m like, I’m pussy blind. Like, like, those words don’t matter to me. Like –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: You should have seen Sarah’s face as she watched me, like, work out what I meant by this?

Sarah: [Laughs] Okay! I –

Amanda: Some people are very particular in, like, the words that are used during sexytimes. I don’t care personally. So you can use, like, the C word; doesn’t bother me. I just feel like the more scientific it is, the less sexy it comes across on the page.

Sarah: I – eh.

Amanda: ‘Cause I would never dirty-talk anyone and use the word vulva. ‘Cause let’s be honest: most men probably don’t know what a vulva is –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and they probably think you’re talking about the thing in the back of your throat. And you’re like, no! That’s your uvula, you idiot!

Sarah: I, I thought you drove a Chevy!

[Laughter]

Amanda: – those are smart, sensible cars! What is –

Sarah: I don’t understand!

Amanda: – what?

Sarah: [Laughs] I scan a lot of sex scenes. A lot of times when I’m reading, the, the writing almost takes a, takes a turn and becomes very different? One thing I’m always curious about from a sort of semi-objective standpoint is whether or not people have a preference between dick or cock?

Amanda: I don’t have a preference.

Sarah: I do not really have a preference either, but it’s very interesting to me when, when those, those words are deployed and which ones are chosen versus euphemisms like arousal, ridge, spear, soldier, flagpole, you know.

Amanda: I just remembered the –

Sarah: Lever.

Amanda: – beginning scenes of Ten Things I Hate About You, where Allison Janney, the guidance counselor, is working on her, like, erotic romance novel –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and she’s trying to find the right – I think she was like, turgid member –

Sarah: Oh yeah, that was a big one.

Amanda: – deletes it.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: [Laughs] And she’s like, engorged, and –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – she keeps, like, working through the different, different words that she could use. Using more, like, graphic terminology rather than euphemisms to me is, like, better, because I just, like, roll my eyes when it’s like spear or rod or whatever, and I’m like, let’s just say what it is! Like, we know what it is!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: You don’t have to play coy here.

Sarah: Yeah. I, I think it depends on the book that I’m reading. Sometimes the language change doesn’t fit, and I’m like, oh! Okay! Wow. Or the characters will, will start dirty-talking each other, and I’m like, your relationship is in that place? I didn’t realize that. Did that happen off-page and I didn’t see it? All of a sudden –

Amanda: [Laughs] You met forty minutes ago!

Sarah: Right! Like, wow! Okay! Yeah, woohoo, all right then.

Amanda: I also know that there are certain readers who hate certain words, right?

Sarah: Oh yeah! Like moist.

Amanda: I am not one of those.

Sarah: I don’t really have strong opinions about dick, cock, pussy, cunt, whatever. Don’t care.

Amanda: Yeah, so, but I know there’s some people –

Sarah: Hello, everyone’s children who are listening to the show.

[Laughter]

Amanda: I know there’s some people who it’s like, ooh, I hate that word, and, you know, it’ll just take you out of a scene or whatever, but –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Unless it’s something, like, really goofy, like, you know –

Sarah: Moist vulva?

Amanda: Or just, you know, like, childish and, like, juvenile, like a woman’s, like, tits or honking bobos or whatever they –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Honking bobos! Her majestic bazoombas.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I am –

Amanda: Her sweater puppies. You know, like –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Like that one cover with the two dog noses? 

Amanda: The two dog noses!

Sarah: Sweater puppies! Oh dear God.

Amanda: Yeah. Unless it’s something like that –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – that makes me go wait, what? [Laughs] I’m sorry! Which I think would be like a good little Easter egg for a romance author to put in there, just to make sure you’re paying attention.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Or can you imagine, like, an audiobook narrator? [Laughs]

Sarah: [Narrator voice] Sweater puppies.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Yeah, this took a turn. Sorry, you guys!

Sarah: Well, we have a question from Laura B:

What are your favorite summer treats? Treat equaling food, outing, or whatever.

For me –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – I love ice cream sandwiches.

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I like champagne cocktails, especially a French 75, which is gin, lemon juice, simple syrup, and champagne on top.

Amanda: That sounds delicious.

Sarah: It’s wonderful. And I like anything on the beach. I think any food on the beach tastes good, but when I was really little, the shack on the beach that I used to go to –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – didn’t sell Coke or Pepsi; it had RC Cola.

Amanda: Hmm!

Sarah: And I would get RC Cola and a bag of Doritos, and that was the absolute taste of summer when I was, you know, eleven or twelve.

Amanda: So I hate the summer – surprise. Even though I was born in Florida, I hate it. But our, our beach snacks when we would go as a family would be green grapes, ice cold in the cooler –

Sarah: Oooh, yummy!

Amanda: Yeah – original Cokes, regular Lays potato chips –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – and then, like, subs from Publix. That would be, like –

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: – our beach food.

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: However, living in New England, it’s a little different, because, like, Sarah listed ice cream sandwiches. I think there was a study that, like, Massachusetts eats the most ice cream out of all the states?

Sarah: Huh!

Amanda: And –

Sarah: Is that ‘cause the beaches are terrible?

Amanda: The beaches are fucking garbage here. Sorry –

Sarah: So there’s, like –

Amanda: – sorry, everyone! [Laughs]

Sarah: So there’s, there’s, like, a compensation of ice cream over crap beaches?

Amanda: I don’t know! But, so one of our new booksellers, who’s wonderful, her name is Christy, and she’s from LA. This is her first year here; she’s here because her partner’s in medical school. She is horrified, she was horrified this winter, where, like, we would eat ice cream –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and she says, it is twenty degrees outside! Why are you eating ice cream? So she, like, doesn’t get it. She is horrified. But so, like, I’ll eat ice cream all year round.

Sarah: Yeah, for sure!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Would you put mayonnaise on ice cream?

Amanda: Weirdly enough, I haven’t.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: But –

[Laughter]

Amanda: I haven’t. But Massachusetts has some weird-ass ice cream. I went to Martha’s Vineyard, and they had a lobster ice cream.

Sarah: [Gagging noises]

Amanda: Did not eat it, ‘cause I don’t like seafood, but –

Sarah: No. No, no, no, no, no.

Amanda: – I guess I can get it? ‘Cause, like, lobster’s supposed to be buttery, right? I’ve had it once and was not impressed. But, like, in terms of food that I think is more enjoyable in the summer?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: I love sour beers.

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: I, I will drink a sour beer year round, but they just, they’re better in the summer? And of course, like, darker beers are better in the winter.

Sarah: I have one more recommendation.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: One of our favorite afternoon, summer, day-drinking cocktails is called an Amaretto Rose?

Amanda: Ooh, I love amaretto, first of all.

Sarah: It is so good. It is amaretto and lime juice.

Amanda: Mmm!

Sarah: I will link to a recipe. Amaretto, lime juice, and club soda or seltzer. So you mix amaretto and lime, add a cherry, and then top with club soda or seltzer, and it is super light and perfect in the summer –

Amanda: One of my –

Sarah: – for day-drinking.

Amanda: One of my roommate’s favorite drinks is an amaretto and ginger ale.

Sarah: Oooh! I have –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – both of those things! I’m going to have to try that!

Amanda: Super easy: you just mix them together. [Laughs]

Sarah: Boom, boom.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: What were your favorite books in middle school/high school?

Okay, so I am very old.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m very, very old, and there’s currently a podcast called Listen to Sassy with Tara Ariano, David Cole, and Pamela Ribon?

Amanda: I think you’ve mentioned this one before.

Sarah: And they are rereading old episodes of – or episodes – issues of Sassy magazine, and they break each episode into three, and it is brilliant! ‘Cause it’s, you know, I, I didn’t realize how much Sassy had influenced me as a young, impressionable teen, but wow, did it! Although there were some things I was never into; like, I never really got into the white socks and big, black, chunky shoes thing? That was not a thing for me. But be that as it may, I am old. And I discovered romance in high school, which means – I graduated in 1993 – I discovered romance at peak forced seduction, fuchsia, giant sweater puppies on the cover, big, big, big weird, big hair. Everything’s exhaling in a different direction. That was when I found romance.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So one of my favorite books after I discovered romance, which was the first one I read, was Blaze Wyndham by Bertrice Small?

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: I brought it with me when I studied abroad in 1996? It is what I believe is termed a fucking-through-history book?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: She, she, she has sex with a bunch of different dudes, including King Henry VIII –

Amanda: Good for her!

Sarah: Good for her – and it’s, it’s Tudor, and I hadn’t realized that, you know, Tudor was a thing back then, but there were a lot of Tudor romances.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That book is completely over the top, and I love it deeply. I will never not love that book.

But in middle school, I was totally a Sweet Valley person. It only took me like twenty-five, thirty minutes to read the frigging books. They were not –

Amanda: Yeah, they just –

Sarah: – they were very small, and you got – and this is when they were still arriving month to month, so every month there was a new Sweet Valley High. I was super into Sweet Valley High. Seriously into it. I didn’t get to the end of the series when there was an earthquake and a refrigerator killed a secondary character? Yes, that’s – [laughs] – a fridge falls on Olivia Davidson and she dies in an earthquake. I think that’s how they ended the series. I never got to that part. ‘Cause they were in, they were in junior year for like ten years and two spring breaks, two summer vacations, two winter vacations, but they were still juniors. They were sixteen. And as much as Sassy influenced me, unfortunately Sweet Valley did as well, because, holy balls, were those books fatphobic. Oh geeze!

Amanda: That sounds about right.

Sarah: So fatphobic.

So what about you? What were your favorite books in middle school and high school?

Amanda: So this is tricky, because seventh grade I, I, we moved from south Florida to north Florida, and the school I went to was a combination middle, middle school/high school, very rural, so our library options weren’t great?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So I read a lot of Stephen King, but I loved Juliet Marillier; I still do. She writes, like, fantasy with a little bit of, like, romance in it. But the first book I remember reading by her is, my friend, my best friend in middle school recommended it to me, and it was the start of the – it’s daughter, Daughter of the Forest, which is like a retelling of “The Six Swans” –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – and so I was obsessed with her books as a, a young Amanda. And then, like, I was super into manga in middle school and high school? So –

Sarah: A peak time to be into it, too.

Amanda: I know – so I was obsessed with Fruits Basket?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Has it ever ended? I don’t know, but it went on forever, and it’s about this young girl who meets this, like, mysterious family of boys – well, not boys; I think it, it, there’s a multitude of genders – but who meets this mysterious family, and turns out they can all turn into different animals of the Chinese zodiac.

Sarah: That’ll create a lot of editions.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, I have a manga recommendation for you!

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I borrowed from my library the first four volumes of The Way of the Househusband?

Amanda: Oh! It’s so cute!

Sarah: It’s adorable!

Amanda: And there’s a Netflix show! There’s a Netflix show!

Sarah: I know! I cannot wait to watch it. It is so adorable. I love it –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – so much. It’s just the cutest thing. It was perfect, like, right before bed reading ‘cause it’s just so sweet.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I loved it.

Amanda: And then another manga that I was obsessed with and then would religiously watch the anime with my friend who recommended Juliet’s books was Ouran High School Host Club.

Sarah: Ah, you’ve talked about this!

Amanda: It’s so stupidly cute. There’s a, a girl who’s a scholarship student at, like, a preppy school, and she dresses like a tomboy, and everyone assumes that she’s a boy, and then she joins this, like, host club, and it’s just so cute.

Yeah, so I read a lot of manga, and I read a lot of –

Sarah: Mm!

Amanda: – you know, romantic fantasy. Those were my books.

Sarah: Super cute!

Amanda: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: Well, I’m going to end this episode here so that it’s not –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – ninety miles long.

Amanda: [Laughs] Okay!

Sarah: But if folks who are listening have recommendations of forced-proximity contemporaries or TV shows or things to put mayo on –

Amanda: Or what you read in high school. [Laughs]

Sarah: I love hearing what people read in high school. And I also want to know what people’s summer treats are.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: ‘Cause I’m always looking for another cocktail recipe.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you to Amanda for hanging out with me, thank you to garlicknitter for transcribing this episode, and thank you to the Patreon community. We will be back next week with more cool questions from all of y’all, so thank you.

And as usual, I end with a terrible joke. I like this joke a lot. I’ve told it to lots of people. They’ve all groaned, and so now I’m going to share it with you.

What is a horse’s favorite store?

What is a horse’s favorite store?

Old Neigh-vy.

[Laughs] I hope you tell many, many people that terrible, terrible joke! Old Neigh-vy!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week!

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[fun music]