448. Strong Food Opinions and Sandwich Debates With Amanda and Sarah

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 448 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and with me today is Amanda. We have some highlights from another Stereo broadcast, and things go way, way off the rails. I don’t even think we’re in the same county as the rails. We are going to talk about strong food opinions and sandwiches, including whether red velvet is the very worst dessert and the egg continuum of quiche to pie. If you need to silly-laugh, you have come to the right episode.

And if you like this episode, Tuesday nights, 7:30 Eastern, on Stereo: you can join us for another broadcast. Just go to stereo.com/smartbitches.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Love at First by Kate Clayborn, one of the most anticipated books of this year, with what Christina Lauren calls “the most delightful cast of characters I’ve met in ages.” Love at First features bickering, meddlesome neighbors, found family, and a slow-burn romance. That ticks a lot of boxes, right? Sixteen years ago, a teenaged Will Sterling saw – or rather, heard – the girl of his dreams. Standing beneath an apartment building balcony, he shared a perfect moment with a lovely, warm-voiced stranger. It’s a memory that’s never faded, though he’s put so much of his past behind him. Now an unexpected inheritance has brought Will back to that same address, where he plans to offload his new property and get back to his regular life as an overworked doctor. Instead, he encounters a woman, two balconies above, who is uncannily familiar. No matter how surprised Nora Clarke is by her reaction to handsome and curious Will, or the whispered pre-dawn conversations that they share, she will not let his plans ruin her quirky, close-knit building. Bound by her loyalty to her adored grandmother, she sets out to foil his efforts with a little bit of light sabotage. But beneath the surface of their feud is a connection, and maybe the perfect second chance. You can find Love at First by Kate Clayborn wherever books are sold. Find out more at kensingtonbooks.com.

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Hello and thank you to our Patreon community. Every episode receives a transcript in part because of the support from the Patreon community. A lot of folks will use an AI for their transcripts, and that is totally fine. Our transcripts are hand-compiled by a human transcriptionist named garlicknitter – [hi, podcast readers! – gk] – not their real name, but still, that’s how we roll in the internet – and every episode is accessible because of Patreon support. So if you would like to join the Patreon community, please have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Thank you again to Patreon community, and thank you, garlicknitter, for transcribing every episode, especially the really, really-really, really long ones.

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We talk a lot about food and videogames and things that are making us feel better in this episode, and I would love to know what is making you feel better. So you can join us at 7:30 p.m. Eastern on Tuesdays on Stereo, or you can email me at [email protected], but please know that I love hearing from you, and I am so very excited to share this episode with you. On with my conversation with Amanda!

[music]

Sarah: All right, so tell me, what is the first thing that is making you happy lately? This is going to be nothing but serotonin and dopamine this whole hour.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I know what it is, but I want to hear you say it so I can hear how happy you sound. [Claps]

Amanda: I’m slightly ashamed –

Sarah: Oh, for God’s sake!

[Laughter]

Amanda: I mean, you, you knew this, so –

Sarah: I did know this! I am so proud of you!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m so proud; like, I can’t even tell you how proud I am! In Yiddish, I’m –

Amanda: You’re –

Sarah: – I’m kvelling! I’m genuinely kvelling here.

Amanda: You’re, I think, like, the only one who –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – gave me positive reinforcement about this – [laughs].

Sarah: Making the good choices! I think you should tell all eight people who are listening right now –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – what wonderful, glorious, amazing, terrific thing you did. ‘Cause it was a good thing.

Amanda: I re-, I re-downloaded World of Warcraft.

Sarah: Yaaay! Did you create a whole new character?

Amanda: I did, ‘cause everything’s so different. Like, I still have my old character. I, I did the math, and she is fifteen years old now?

Sarah: [Laughs] You have a teenager!

Amanda: I have a teenage World of Warcraft character. But everything’s so different that I was like, I just need to start over and create a new character so I can learn how everything works now, and it’s very –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – different. I still have my old one. Her, her name is Sorry Guys, and she’s –

Sarah: [Laughs] Even fift- –

Amanda: – she’s a Restoration Druid.

Sarah: Even fifteen years ago, you were fucking badass!

Amanda: Sorry Guys!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I love it so much!

Amanda: But I created a new character. She’s a Shaman named Judi Dench. So –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Okay, I don’t think I could possibly get happier than I am right now!

Amanda: I’ve decided that, like, all future new characters are just going to be old, older, stately actresses? So, like, there’s going to be a Maggie Smith and a –

Sarah: Good call.

Amanda: – Julie Andrews.

Sarah: I love this plan.

Amanda: Yeah, I’m just going to go – [laughs] – so I think that’s what I’m going with! But, like, I, I enjoy playing it so much, and I think, there’s a lot of, like, collection aspects to the game? Like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – you know, pets and mounts and, like, all these different things. And I was, like, a big collector when I played, so to come back and have, like, all these new things to collect, like, I just, I know some people don’t like games where you have to, like, grind quests and collect things and whatever, but I love it! I find it so enjoyable. Like, I don’t care about doing –

Sarah: Have you seen me farming on Stardew Valley?

Amanda: I know.

Sarah: Like, I love it! I love it so much!

Amanda: I don’t care about doing, like, player versus player stuff where you, like, you know, do battlegrounds or arena or anything like that. I just like running around, getting –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – new pets and new mounts and objects and – it’s, you know, hoarding in my game. [Laughs] So –

Sarah: You’ve got to hoard your supplies! It’s part of the game play!

Amanda: It was nice to, like, go through and just have, like, a nice, nostalgic moment, like, looking at all the old, like, mounts and achievements that I have on my account, because, like, all of your achievements are, like, account-wise, so I can see all of the stuff that I kind of like earned from my, my first character I ever made. But it’s, I, I really enjoy it, and –

Sarah: Yay!

Amanda: [Laughs] I mean, you know, I told my –

Sarah: You can’t see, see my expression right now. I am so excited for you. Like, were you playing and just like, this is fucking awesome; I feel great? Hell, yeah! Were you really into it?

Amanda: It’s so absorbing. And they’ve done a lot of stuff that’s new, so, you know, like, the game, for a long time, didn’t really change, like, the beginning, starting areas? So you’re just, like, doing the same stuff over and over and over again. But now things are new, and one of my friends from grad school, Bree, so she recently built her own computer, which is gorgeous –

Sarah: Bad ass!

Amanda: – gorgeous! And I saw it on her Instagram stories, and I was, you know, complimenting her, and she’s like, yeah, I’m playing Warcraft again. She’s like, you should totally join me and share in my sin, is what she said. [Laughs] And –

Sarah: I mean, there’s no more perfect description to attract you, right?

Amanda: I have no willpower. All I need –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: All I need is one person to validate a bad decision, and that’s, like –

Sarah: Sorry!

Amanda: – you know, five, five people could say, Amanda, don’t, don’t do this, but if one person is like, yeah, you know what? You should do it! I’m like, yeah, you’re right, I should. Mm-hmm. And I’m – [laughs] – like, on board! But if, like, my roommate was like, oh no, Amanda! What did you do?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Like, she was like, what have you done? She’s like, promise me you’ll be responsible!

Sarah: And I’m over here like, yaaay!

Amanda: And you know, like, I know people are worried that –

Sarah: I’m every party GIF that ever happened.

Amanda: I know people are worried that, like, I’ll get addicted to it again and neglect friends and family, but when I played it hardcore, I was in high school, which is a lot different –

Sarah: Different!

Amanda: – than being an adult with responsibilities and jobs and stuff like that. So –

Sarah: Yep. And also –

Amanda: – you know.

Sarah: – can I point something out? Can I point something out?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: In high school, from what you’ve told me, there were many aspects of your real life that you probably felt like escaping into World of Warcraft was a genuine escape that you probably needed, and there are elements of your life right now which, you know, probably are not the most optimal, given Quarantimes –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – but you have less miserable things to escape in your immediate environment!

Amanda: It’s true. I mean, and then World of Warcraft did ruin my life for – [laughs] – a period of time.

Sarah: Yeah, but now you have –

Amanda: So –

Sarah: – Linus. Somebody’s got to clean the cat box.

Amanda: Yeah, I do have Linus. So that’s one thing that is, I downloaded it –

Sarah: Yay!

Amanda: – on Monday? Monday.

Sarah: Monday. Yesterday.

Amanda: And so I’ve been, I’ve been – yeah, yester-, was it? Oh God! Yeah, Monday was yesterday!

[Laughter]

Sarah: So today’s Tuesday.

Amanda: Whoops.

Sarah: Yesterday was Thursday. Today it is Friday.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Tomorrow is Saturday. Sunday comes after.

Amanda: So I’ve been, I think I just hit like level eleven? They’ve, like, changed all of the leveling –

Sarah: Leveling mechanics are different?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Argh!

Amanda: Yeah, everything’s different. But I heard it’s, like, really quick to, like, level up and, I don’t know, like, I’m, I’m really enjoying it. Probably after I get done, after we’re done, like, Stereo-ing, I’m going to go play! So – [laughs]

Sarah: Yes! Yes! You deserve something –

Amanda: But – yeah –

Sarah: – that makes you feel happy! You deserve something that makes you feel happy and that gives you joy and also lets you be Judi Dench. I am a hundred percent Team Judi Dench –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and anyone who says otherwise is just wrong.

Amanda: I was, like, going through my old characters, and I went through, like, a food phase where I had, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – Pop Tart and, like, Mounds and Almond Joy and just, like –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – like, all right, cool. So yeah, I, I re-downloaded World of Warcraft. I bought the new expansion so I could play everything. And with that came, like, a free –

Sarah: Good for you!

Amanda: – a free month of play time! So I have at least a month to decide if this is what I want to keep doing.

Sarah: Awesome!

Amanda: But so far it’s been really nice! I’ve, I’ve enjoyed –

Sarah: Yay!

Amanda: – getting back into it.

Sarah: Isn’t it wonderful that there’s something that worked for you fifteen years ago, and it’s still there and it works for you now? It’s like, it’s like my older child and Pokémon. We went to this concert –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – of the music from Pokémon with the National Symphony, like, the, the, the District of Columbia National Symphony playing the Pokémon soundtrack, which was, by the way, amazing. But in this auditorium and in this, in this concert hall were little kids and teenagers and adults and their parents, and everyone was just rocking out to Pokémon. It was multiple generations, and for there to be something that works for you for so many generations and so many years? That’s just awesome! I love that!

Amanda: Well, Pokémon, Pokémon has had like several iterations. Like, you know, I grew up with –

Sarah: Yes. Oh yeah.

Amanda: – one. My friend Emma grew up with another one. Like, there are examples – so Nintendo Direct comes out, they’re doing Nintendo Direct –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – tomorrow, I think?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Would love more deets on Pokémon Snap, which is coming out in March. But I grew up with an –

Sarah: I think –

Amanda: – N64, and –

Sarah: – Pokémon Day is in a week and a half, too. We’ll get more then.

Amanda: Yeah! So I’m super excited for Pokémon Snap to come out in March, but, like, for example, Emma, who is a friend of mine and I think like eight years younger than me? Didn’t grow up with Pokémon Snap, so she’s not excited. She wants news of, like, the remastered, like, was it Pokémon Diamond and Pearl? Like, that’s what she’s excited about.

Sarah: Yes! That’s, that’s what my older child is excited about too, the remastered game.

We have a message! You want to hear it?

Amanda: Yeah!

[pop!]

Guest: So you want to know what makes me feel happy. Okay, in no –

Sarah: Yes!

Guest: – in no particular order: drinking –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: ‘Kay.

Guest: – making and eating pizza –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Agreed!

Guest: – and watching videos of dogs on Instagram. There are more, but let’s start with those three.

[pop]

Amanda: That’s a, that’s a good three. Eating, drinking, and cute animals.

Sarah: Okay, we like you! And pizza!

Amanda: Yeah! So I’m, I’m having a glass of wine.

Sarah: I mean, I’ll be honest: on my, on my list? I just had a gin and ginger. I had a ginger beer, ginger, lime, and, and cherries. That was, that was excellent. We like you, you’re fabulous, and I’m glad that pizza and drinking and dogs on Instagram are making you happy.

Amanda: If you’re –

Sarah: Those would make me happy!

Amanda: – if you’re, if you’re still listening do you have, like, a favorite dog Instagram account? ‘Cause, you know, always looking for more.

Sarah: Oh, this is a good question. We need –

Amanda: Do you have some favorite dogs you follow?

Sarah: – we need to expand.

Amanda: The Edinburgh Samoyed Rescue? So it’s just a bunch of Samoyeds –

Sarah: [Gasps]

Amanda: – in Scotland. I love their Instagram account –

Sarah: Perfect place for them!

Amanda: – so much. It’s just like, just fluffy white dogs frolicking around Scotland. That’s –

Sarah: Okay. One of my favorite Twitter accounts, it is a cat, but it’s Pépito. Pépito is a French cat, and there is a camera and a sensor on the cat door, and Pépito will, the Twitter account just tells you if Pépito is out or if Pépito is in.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So you get these grainy pictures of this cat exiting the cat door or coming back in. And sometimes I’ll, like, wake up in the morning and I’m sort of half-caffeinated scrolling Twitter? Pépito is in. Oh, I’m so glad Pépito came in! I don’t –

Amanda: [Laughs] Pépito is in!

Sarah: – I don’t know where this cat is, but yeah! I, I love watching Pépito come in and out of his cat door in France on Twitter. This is the greatest use of automated photograph technology I can think of, right?

Amanda: I think I follow more – now that I’m looking at it – I follow more, like, cat accounts, but I also love – what is it? – the, the Pied Dog Walker? So they’re, like, a professional –

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: – dog walker in the Boston area, and they just take gorgeous photos of the dogs that they walk –

Sarah: Aw!

Amanda: – like, in the snow and –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: I love that account so much, and all the dogs are just so well behaved, posing for photos.

Sarah: If – I walk two dogs at the same time sometimes, and that is a, a gymnastic Jazzercise walk, and I can’t imagine walking more than two, and I see, like, my neighbor, who’s a dog walker, he’s got like eight.

Amanda: Yeah, no, this person walks eight dogs.

Sarah: And one of them is as big as my car! Yeah, how do you do that? It’s amazing!

Amanda: They’re big! Like, they, they walk, I think, like two Bernese Mountain Dogs and a bunch of, like, labs –

Sarah: Oh my God.

Amanda: – and, yeah, they’re –

Sarah: You could just put on roller skates and go.

Amanda: I, that, you’re just an accident waiting to happen in that case. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, for sure.

So can I tell you what makes me happy? One of the things that makes me happy –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – ‘cause you know I brought a list.

Amanda: Yes, of course –

Sarah: I played videogames – right. You know me! I, you’re lucky I didn’t start a Google Calendar for this.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I mean, I have it on Google Calendar, but the list isn’t there. I played videogames all afternoon yesterday. Just like you, I started playing –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – Witcher 3. I attempted to kill a, a Water Hag and she killed me four times so I gave up, and then I killed something else. I picked flowers, I got a ham sandwich –

Amanda: That damn hag.

Sarah: – off a dead guy – damn hag – and I, I, I got ham sandwiches, and I killed some Drowners with a crossbow, and I got some swords, and I was very, very relaxed, and then I switched to Stardew Valley, which was, like, even more relaxing –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and I got my first chickens. I am a blue-skinned creature with green broccoli hair. I have decided –

Amanda: Yeah?

Sarah: – that I am a miniature Frost Giant. And I got my chicken coop with my chonkins, and I named my chonkin Attazad, and life is good. And I was so –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – relaxed and happy by the time I sat down to dinner. And dinner yesterday was tomato soup and grilled cheese and salad, so I ate a vegetable –

Amanda: Ooh!

Sarah: – and then ate, ate all of the grilled cheese sandwiches.

Amanda: I love, I love a grilled cheese and tomato soup. So I would, like –

Sarah: And you convinced us, you convinced us –

Amanda: The mayo?

Sarah: – to use mayonnaise on the grilled cheese. It’s –

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: – it’s a game changer.

Together: So good!

Amanda: Yeah, the fat, like, really crisps up the bread. So for those of you who don’t know, if you like grilled cheese –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – even if you don’t like mayonnaise – that’s okay; you don’t really taste it – but –

Sarah: Mm-mm.

Amanda: – if you put a little bit of mayonnaise on each side of the bread as you’re toasting it, it gives, like, a nice, crispy crunch to the, to the bread, so highly recommend the mayonnaise trick. But –

Sarah: Well –

Amanda: – I’ve been playing Raft with Emma and her sister –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – [laughs] – and there’s something so satisfying about the three of us, like – there’s, there are these giant seabirds that will drop rocks on you, and you have to –

Sarah: Well, that seems unkind!

Amanda: It is; it’s very rude. You have to shoot them with a bow and arrow.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So, like, we’re –

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: – trying to dodge these rocks being dropped on our heads, shooting at this giant bird with a bow and arrow, and just, like, the feeling of, like, killing it as you’re all, like, shooting it with your bows? We’re like, yeaahh! And then you can, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – mount the bird head on your raft, so we did! [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, that sounds good!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: So we have some messages, but before I forget, I want to tell you about a food thing.

Amanda: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: So we bought the DiGiorno croissant crust pizza.

Amanda: Yes, that’s right!

Sarah: And today my younger child was like, can I have that for lunch today? And we were like, you have to give us a piece, ‘cause we need to try it. So Adam and I –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – shared a piece. It is really good!

Amanda: It’s good, okay.

Sarah: Because it, the, the crust is really light? It’s all foldy, laminated; it does not taste like a croissant.

Adam: It, it’s not a low-calorie meal.

Sarah: It is not a low-calorie meal –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – by a long shot.

Amanda: Not that I thought it would be.

Sarah: But, and the – not that you thought it would be – but it is, you know how sometimes micro-, or frozen pizzas or, or, or, you know, grocery store ready-made pizzas, the crust can be a little too sweet and thick? This was light, and it wasn’t too sweet, and it was really, really good.

Amanda: I mean, I –

Sarah: So I recommend –

Amanda: I don’t have a discerning palate. So, like, I remember when –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – I think it was, like, Pizza Hut? I think it might have been Pizza Hut – who did, like, the hot dogs in the pizza crust. Like, I was all on board with that.

Sarah: Was it Pizza Hut that did the hot dogs in the pizza crust?

Amanda: I thought it was! Maybe not.

Sarah: Adam does not remember, which is unfortunate. Maybe –

Amanda: I think –

Sarah: If you are listening and you know who put hot dogs in pizza crust, leave us a message and let us know.

Amanda: Hot dog pizza crust!

Adam: Could be a stoned person?

Sarah: [Laughs] Adam says it was a stoned person, whoever it was.

Amanda: Bless them.

Sarah: Put hot dogs in the pizza crust: bless them all the way home.

Amanda: It is Pizza Hut! It was Pizza Hut!

Sarah: Awesome! I can’t eat Pizza Hut; their sauce makes me ill? But hot dogs in pizza crust – I mean, it’s a protein, it counts.

Amanda: I think it’s discontinued, which is probably for the best. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s probably better for the world.

Together: Yeah.

Sarah: All right, you want to – we got another message! You ready?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: All right.

[pop!]

Guest: Did you really put mayonnaise on your grilled sandwich? How did that taste?

[pop]

[Laughter]

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: Let –

Sarah: Let, let us correct the record here.

Amanda: If you jumped in, so, one, I enjoy mayonnaise, so this is not a hardship for me. Two –

Sarah: May-, she would eat it with a spoon! Mayonnaise –

Amanda: I would.

Sarah: – makes you happy, right?

Amanda: I, I –

Sarah: Mayonnaise is a thing that makes you happy; it’s in the top five.

Amanda: I’m from the South; we put mayonnaise on and in everything.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So – [laughs] – like, if we had to play, like, which condiment can you only keep for the rest of your life? It would be mayonnaise. So –

Sarah: Meanwhile, for the record, I am Jewish, but I converted, and there was a time in, in the Beforetimes – recent history, probably 2019 – where my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law were standing in front of my open fridge, openly judging the fact that I had a big-ass container of mayonnaise, and they didn’t know what to do with that.

Amanda: I only buy the big container. Like, why waste my time?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Why waste my time? But you don’t put mayonnaise –

Sarah: Right! What, what is even the point?

Amanda: You don’t put mayonnaise in the sandwich. It doesn’t go in it like you would, like a turkey sandwich or whatever.

Sarah: No. No, you don’t, you don’t smear the cheese with mayo.

Amanda: You don’t put it in it. You put it on the outside that gets grilled, because, like, normally people put butter to, like, toast it.

Sarah: Yes. Instead of butter, right!

Amanda: Instead of butter, you put a little schmear of, of mayonnaise on the outside, the, the side that’s going to go on the pan, and the fat content from the mayonnaise – ‘cause it’s just, like, it’s like egg, egg and oil, essentially?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Crisps up the bread, and I think it makes it a little crunchier and toastier and crisper than butter would. So just clarifying: mayonnaise does not go in the grilled cheese. I mean, if you wanted to do that, I won’t stop you. But it doesn’t –

Sarah: She wouldn’t even judge you, either; she’d cheer you on.

Amanda: No! But, for the purposes of, like, why you’re using mayonnaise, you put it on the outside, the part of the bread that gets toasted, because it makes it –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – toastier. I hope – [laughs] –

Sarah: And it, and it adds this really nice tang to the –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – to the outside.

Amanda: You can barely taste the mayonnaise.

Sarah: So usually you’d use – yeah. It’s, it’s really, really good, and my husband really dislikes mayonnaise, like, super a lot – has mayonnaise rejection.

Amanda: I mean, no offense, no offense to Adam –

Adam: As a condiment –

Sarah: Yes.

Adam: – not as an ingredient.

Sarah: As a condiment. He’s fine with it in, like, as a major ingredient, like a tuna salad or whitefish salad or egg salad –

Adam: Or as part of a sauce.

Sarah: – or as part of a sauce. This is all fine, but, like, as a condiment? No thank – he is mustard all the way.

Amanda: Well –

Sarah: But I convinced him that the grilled cheese with mayonnaise on the outside of the bread is a superior grilled cheese product.

Amanda: I – no offense to Adam – I don’t give his food opinions any credence whatsoever.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s fine!

Amanda: Because he, he thinks cookies are a dessert, and they are not. Cookies are a snack.

[Laughter]

Amanda: And I will die on that hill.

Sarah: Cookies are not a dessert; they are a snack. So you and Adam are going to meet in the Thunderdome of dessert discussion. Okay. Sounds good!

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: All right. We have a new message about sandwiches! Are you ready?

Amanda: Ooh, I love talking about sandwiches.

Sarah: I should have just changed the title of this episode to “Tell Us About Sandwiches.”

Amanda: [Laughs] 

Sarah: [Laughs] Maybe that’s what we’ll do next week! Just tell us about your sandwiches. All right.

[pop!]

Guest: My friend used to do peanut butter and mayonnaise. Have you ever done that?

[pop]

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: So –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – no. Not on just a plain sandwich. But I have had a burger, I have had a burger with peanut butter and mayonnaise on it, and it was fucking delicious. It was so good. It was at this –

Sarah: [Still laughing]

Amanda: – little, like, hole-in-the-wall burger place in Tallahassee, where I went to college, called Monks, M-O-N-K-S.

Sarah: I’m crying! [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah. Monks, and they have all these, like, specialty burgers and such good sweet potato fries, but – I hope they have their menu online; I’m going to, like, find it. But yeah, I’ve had a burger –

Sarah: I’m crying.

Amanda: Sorry. [Laughs]

Sarah: Put peanut butter and mayonnaise on it?

Amanda: Yeah. Oh yeah. I don’t know if they’re –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – more, or they rebranded. But –

Sarah: I can understand why they would taste good together. If the, if the peanut butter is really sweet, then the mayonnaise would –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – add a tangy counterpart to it?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I get it!

Amanda: And they’re no longer in business! That’s so sad! But that’s not a surprise at the moment. But yeah, Monks’ burgers were so delicious, but they were just, like, you know, you’ve seen those, like, kitschy, like, burger places where it’s just like, we’re going to put a bunch of shit on a burger.

Sarah: Oh yeah, for sure!

Amanda: Yeah. And that’s kind of like what it was. [Laughs]

Sarah: There, I changed the title to “Leisure, Comedy, Sandwiches.” 

Amanda: Sandwiches. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: #Sandwiches! But yes, I’ve had a burger with peanut butter and mayonnaise, and I think it had, like, bacon on it as well.

Sarah: I have never had peanut butter and mayonnaise. I’m kind of tempted to go get a spoon, combine both, and taste it.

Amanda: I mean, like, I, if you took the mayonnaise off, it would have been fine. Like, a, just peanut butter on a burger is something that I’ve, I’ve heard of too. So kind –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – I want to find, I want to find this old menu.

Sarah: [Laughs] While you’re hunting, shall I play a message? I bet it’s about sandwiches. Is it about sandwiches?

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Adam: Oh, they’re all, everything that I’ve put through –

Sarah: Everything is about the sandwiches. Adam is moderating the sandwich feed.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Here we go.

[pop!]

Guest: I honestly could understand it, even on a burger, but –

Sarah: Yeah!

Guest: – between two slices of bread with just peanut butter and mayonnaise, that always seemed crazy to me, but she would come to school and rant and rave about how good it was.

[pop]

Amanda: I need some other texture –

Sarah: Oh –

Amanda: – ‘cause that’s just mushy, right?

Sarah: That’s a lot of goo, right?

Amanda: Don’t say that!

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s moist goo? [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah, don’t say that.

Sarah: [Laughs more]

Amanda: I’ll just try it! I would eat it –

Sarah: All right, I think you should try it and report – do you have peanut butter and mayonnaise in your apartment? You should –

Amanda: Of course I do!

Sarah: – try it and report back!

Amanda: Of course I have it.

Sarah: Okay. I, I’m writing this in my notes for next week, PB and mayo, and we will report back.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: The peanut butter and mayonnaise challenge.

Amanda: Okay.

Adam: [Laughs]

Sarah: Brin? Brin, we’re doing this.

Amanda: Adam – [laughs]

Sarah: We’re, we’re, we’re totally – Adam is dying laughing. He is so – what are you, are you laughing at the peanut butter and mayonnaise challenge?

Adam: No –

Sarah: All right, he says we need to play this message.

Amanda: Okay, all right.

[pop!]

Guest: I mean, isn’t peanut butter and jelly just a lot of goo also, literally?

[pop]

[Laughter]

Sarah: It’s so true!

Amanda: Yeah. Oh yeah.

Sarah: This is true! You’re right! I stand corrected.

Amanda: It’s a mushy sandwich.

Sarah: This is just alternate tangy goo!

Amanda: Okay!

Sarah: But if, if you have chunky peanut butter, if you have, if you have chunky peanut butter –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – and mayonnaise –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – that would –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – that would differentiate the tex- –

Amanda: No!

Sarah: Are you a creamy PB?

Amanda: No. I am a creamy PB –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I, I like peanuts, and I like peanut butter, but there’s something – it’s just, the peanuts are too small. They’re too small in the peanut butter.

Sarah: What do you want, like, boulders in your sandwich?

Amanda: They’re just –

Sarah: I’m sorry, this sandwich doesn’t have enough rocks in it!

Amanda: They’re not big enough to add anything. They’re small enough to be annoying obstacles in my enjoyment of a sandwich. [Laughs]

Sarah: They just get stuck in your teeth, right?

Amanda: They do!

Sarah: Okay. All right.

Amanda: But I, that’s a fair point –

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: – that, like, jelly is –

Sarah: Fair point! Peanut butter and jelly –

Amanda: It just –

Sarah: – is goo too! I, I stand corrected.

Amanda: – a sweet fruit mayonnaise, I suppose.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Jelly is sweet fruit mayonnaise! I’m crying! Oh my God! Oh my gosh!

[More laughter]

Sarah: All right. [Still laughing] Okay, here’s another message.

[pop!]

Sue: Alternate tangy goo? Title of your sex tape. Am I right?

[Laughter]

Amanda: All right, so we’ve –

Sarah: Hi, Sue!

Amanda: – we’ve gone from, like – hi, Sue! – we’ve gone from, like, what makes you happy? To sandwiches, to now just, like, goo. Like, that’s, it’s, we’ve just gone on to things that are –

Sarah: But –

Amanda: – like, goo that you eat.

Sarah: But, but, but gooey sandwiches make me happy, so that’s all in the same, you know, house of wheels.

Amanda: Hou-, the same house of wheels. I’ve never heard that phrase –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – in my life.

Sarah: I meant to say wheelhouse, but I forgot the word wheel until I was already through with saying the word house, so I just ended on wheels!

Amanda: I just imagine you being invited to, like, a house party, and you, like, go there –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and it’s just this crazy old woman who has just a house full of, like, decorative wheels. Like Oregon Trails –

Sarah: Wagon wheels!

Amanda: – covered wagon wheels on display.

Sarah: Yeah, one of those coffee tables that’s a wagon wheel with glass on top? Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s, that’s high, that’s high styling right there.

Amanda: Wheels for days.

Sarah: I interrupt myself to bring you myself to tell you that if you are enjoying this episode, you are extremely cordially invited to our next podcast after-party, Tuesdays, 7:30 Eastern, on Stereo. You can listen to us live on the Stereo app and record messages for us to play, like the ones you’re hearing. I can guarantee it will be as silly and as strange as this episode. All you need to do is download the free Stereo app at stereo.com/smartbitches and you can connect with us when we are live every Tuesday at 7:30 p.m. Eastern. Just go to stereo.com/smartbitches so you can get started, and you can join us every Tuesday night at 7:30 Eastern.

And now, back to sandwich mayhem.

Okay, so on the topic of sandwiches that make you happy, which sandwiches make you happy?

Amanda: Oh, I love a grilled cheese. And, ‘cause I love soup –

Sarah: Grilled cheese.

Amanda: – and so I love pairing grilled cheese –

Sarah: Right!

Amanda: – and soup. I love putting, also, apple slices in my grilled cheese.

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: Add some more crunch! I love a –

Sarah: And some fiber!

Amanda: I love a, a turkey sandwich. That is my go-to, like, deli meat sandwich? And – we have to talk about this, Sarah – is a hot dog a sandwich?

Sarah: Are you going to talk about gabagool? [Laughs]

Amanda: No. Is a hot dog a sandwich?

Sarah: Is a hot, is a hot dog a sandwich? Is it okay if I don’t have an opinion on this one, or do I have to have an opinion on this?

Amanda: Well, like, if, if we’re saying a hot dog is a sandwich, ‘cause it’s meat between two pieces of bread, or technically one piece of bread –

Sarah:  This is getting so weird; I love it.

Amanda: – then a hot dog is my favorite sandwich, preferably with mayonnaise on it. Mayonnaise, relish, onions, catsup, spicy mustard. I like my hot dogs loaded. So if a hot dog is a sandwich, then a hot dog is my favorite sandwich.

Sarah: Okay! Understand!

Amanda: Yeah, and then I like grilled cheese and turkey sandwiches. You know, everything else I’m kind of indifferent about. I do hate roast beef sandwiches, and I do hate –

Sarah: Really! Is it because you can’t bite through the roast beef and it gets all stringy?

Amanda: I don’t like the texture.

Sarah: Okay. Makes sense.

Amanda: And I don’t like bologna sandwiches, because that’s all I ate as a kid was – I was poor, so we, I would be sent to school with bologna sandwiches on white bread with French’s yellow mustard. Like, that is what I would eat for lunch. I refuse to eat bologna as an adult. Like, I will never consciously choose bologna – [laughs] – if I have a choice. So bologna’s a no-go for me.

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: Those are my sandwich opinions.

Sarah: I – I like your sandwich opinions.

Amanda: Thank you!

Sarah: Although I have a question about the roast beef one.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Have you ever had a French dip, where you take the roast beef on a big-ass roll and then you dip it in beef jus? Which is –

Amanda: I don’t like that.

Sarah: – kind of like a soup, but it’s just for the sandwich? Oh, it’s so good!

Amanda: It gets too, it’s – I’ve seen other people eat it, and it looks like a chore. And it gets soggy.

Sarah: Is this a sandwich free-for-all now? Well, that’s why!

Adam: [Laughs] Sandwich free-for-all!

Sarah: It’s just, it’s just, that’s why!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: You want it to be soggy: that’s the whole point. And if you get some really good –

Amanda: I don’t want it to be soggy!

Sarah: – like, provolone and a little bit of horseradish –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – and it soaks up –

Amanda: No.

Sarah: – all the gravy? Mm. All right, we have many –

Amanda: You’re not selling me on that at all.

Sarah: That’s cool! I have sandwich messages, though.

Amanda: [Laughs] All right, let’s go.

Sarah: This has turned into a sandwich free-for-all. I’m enjoying this.

Amanda: That’s fine!

[pop!]

Sue: Okay, counterpoint: it’s not that I don’t think a hot dog is a sandwich? It’s that I think sandwiches are, in fact, a subset or a subcategory of foods that are wrapped in other foods. Right, so there’s a lot of Chinese food –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Sue: – that’s like a carb, and then something’s on the inside, or like a pastry or a calzone, and so I feel like sandwich is actually, like –

Sarah: Sue –

Sue: – the genus and species, and you’re looking at phylum.

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay, Sue, I don’t know if you’ve heard me talk about this, but I’m going to talk about it again, that my theory of –

Amanda: I love, I –

Sarah: – universal human love – go ahead.

Amanda: I love how Sue took it to, like, a scientific place.

Sarah: Well, and then she’s basically advocating for open-sided dumplings as a, as the genus of, of, as a subset of, of, where sandwiches are located. But my theory –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – of universal human love is the idea that as people, as humans, we take a food, we wrap it in a pastry or a dough, and then we cook it. Because, like you said, in Chinese cooking, if you thinking about it, in how many languages and how many cultures, there’s a word for food in a dough that is cooked, and how often that particular food item in that culture is the ultimate expression of comfort food and love. So whether it’s dim sum or dumplings or kreplach or pierogis or egg rolls or –

Adam: Calzones.

Sarah: – calzones –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I mean, it’s all totally true, but at the sa-, so the sandwich is a subset of the food in a dough, but it’s just open-sided.

Amanda: Well –

Sarah: Okay, you’re brilliant, Sue. You’re just brilliant. I am in favor of –

Amanda: I mean, yeah, Sue is brilliant.

Sarah: – this categorization. Yes.

Amanda: Well, I think I’ve told you that my roommate Stephanie, she has a coworker who believes foods are, like, binary. There’s two ends of the spectrum: either a food is a quesadilla, or a food is a soup.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And I think I’ve mentioned this. So, like, a burger: quesadilla.

Sarah: Is a form of quesadilla.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Pulled pork is a soup.

Amanda: No, pulled pork is a ques- –

Sarah: Unless it’s on a –

Amanda: A pulled pork sandwich? That’s a quesadilla.

Sarah: Pulled pork sandwich is a quesadilla, but pulled pork or brisket or barbecue is a soup –

Amanda: Mashed potatoes: soup.

Sarah: – ‘cause of the sauce.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Soup.

Amanda: Mashed potatoes: soup. Salad? I think that goes in soup.

Sarah: French fries?

Amanda: Ooh, that’s a tough one.

Sarah: I think french fries are their own category.

Amanda: I’m, I’m going to ask her like right now.

Sarah: I, I don’t think they’re, I don’t –

[Laughter]

Amanda: I’m asking her right now.

Sarah: Crucial questions: sandwich? Quesadilla, soup, or fries?

Amanda: Well, no. Stephanie and I literally went out to, went out to dinner one time, and we were just thinking of foods, and we’re like, no! That’ll fit in either soup or quesadilla. So I don’t know.

Sarah: Now, I am, I am from Pittsburgh, and one of the famous –

Amanda: Soup. French fries are soup.

Sarah: French fries are soup!?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t – well, just because they’re not quesadillas doesn’t mean that they’re soup!

Amanda: It’s, it’s the Schrödinger soup here. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah! You, you, you can’t – just because it’s not one thing –

Amanda: I’m asking for clarity.

Sarah: – doesn’t automatically mean, it doesn’t mean that it’s another! But, like –

Amanda: I think it’s because –

Sarah: – so in Pittsburgh –

Amanda: – the inside of a fry is, is like a fluffy center.

Sarah: Is a soft and gushy thing.

Amanda: Stop saying these things!

Sarah: So in Pittsburgh there’s Primanti’s, and you put the french fries in the sandwich. Like, when you get a sandwich at Primanti’s –

Adam: And the coleslaw.

Sarah: – you put the french fries and the coleslaw –

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: – in the sandwich –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and that’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – what you get to eat –

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: – at Primanti Brothers. The theory for, as, is to the origin, and I’ve heard this either stated with great authority and also, nuh-uh, that’s not real, was that steelworkers had a very limited lunch hour and no place to sit, and so in order to get a meal, they just put the sides in the sandwich and ate the whole sandwich that way.

Amanda: Okay. Soup ruling: she says french fries –

Sarah: Disagree! I think they’re their own class!

Amanda: Well, this is the, this is the thought behind the ruling that french fries are soup: because french –

Sarah: French fries are a soup.

Amanda: Because french fries, you don’t have just one. It’s not like a single serve meal. You have multiple, which then must be held in a vessel, a non-edible vessel of some sort, therefore making it a soup. So I wonder if, like, soup/quesadilla is really, like, handheld versus in a vessel.

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: Does it make, does it make sense?

Sarah: I, I, I think it makes sense –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – but I’m still not a hundred percent on board –

Amanda: You disagree.

Sarah: – with agreeing?

Amanda: Also –

Sarah: I just think – mm.

Amanda: – fries and coleslaw? There’s a place near me in the Boston area that their, their house hot dog has french fries and coleslaw on it, and it’s delicious!

[silence]

Amanda: You still thinking about french fries as soup?

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes! Yes, I am thinking about french fries –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and soup. But we also have messages, and –

Amanda: You’re going to wake up in the middle of the night, just be like, french fries are soup?

Sarah: And I’m going to wake Adam up and be like, french fries are a soup? [Laughs] Yes! And the cat’s going to be like, go back to sleep, human.

All right, message:

[pop!]

Guest: Is a pumpkin pie a pie, since it doesn’t have a lid, or is it a rather large tart?

[pop]

Amanda: Hmm!

Sarah: Ohhh gosh! Is a pumpkin pie a pie or a tart?

Amanda: Well, okay. So –

Sarah: Ooh.

Amanda: – would lemon meringue be a pie or a tart, because, does the meringue count as a lid?

Sarah: Or does the, is the meringue as a, would the meringue, like, count as a lid?

Amanda: Is the meringue the lid?

Sarah: But then you have pies that are just a lattice work! Is that a lid? Does that qualify?

Amanda: Or like a pecan pie! You don’t put a fucking lid on a pecan pie!

Sarah: That’s definitely a pie, though, not a torte. But the thing about a pecan pie is that it’s very sweet, and a pumpkin pie isn’t always sweet. It’s a custard, so it could count as a tart.

Amanda: Or it could just be a – yeah, I guess. Oh God!

Sarah: Ooh. This is hard! [Laughs]

Amanda: I like to –  you know, in the frivolity of talking about sandwiches and not, like, questioning food phyla.

Sarah: A genus of food?

Amanda: Yeah! I mean –

Sarah: All right, one more message here.

[pop!]

Guest: Okay, so you like hot dogs and you like grilled cheese, but what about a hot dog with cheese on it?

[pop]

Amanda: Yes. I will eat that, definitely. I just wouldn’t put my other toppings on it. Like, if I’m adding cheese, like, I could eat a chili cheese dog.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: But I wouldn’t do it with my normal condiments, like relish and stuff like that. So those are two separate kinds of hot dog toppings, and never the twain shall meet.

[Laughter]

Sarah: All right, we got, we got food messages. We have gone down a dark path.

Amanda: That’s fine!

Adam: Those two go together.

Sarah: All right, these two go together –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – according to Adam, who is serving as food moderator.

Amanda: Okay.

[pop!]

Guest: But if a pumpkin pie is a custard, then is it really actually a cheesecake, ‘cause isn’t a cheesecake also a custard?

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs]

[pop!]

Afronaut: Huh, I’m, I personally never had a, like, non-sweet pumpkin pie, so I, I personally –

Sarah: Ahhh!

Afronaut: – you know, my opinion and, like, wouldn’t, I wouldn’t call that a tart necessarily. That’s a tough one; that’s hard.

[pop]

Amanda: I, I feel like the pumpkin pies that I’ve had are usually sweet. I’m not a big pumpkin pie fan?

Sarah: I love pumpkin pie.

Amanda: I – well, one, top tier dessert’s cake. Cake is always number one. That will never not be number one. Pies are harder for me, ‘cause I don’t know! Fruit pies are okay, but I prefer, like, a key lime pie, like a lemon meringue. I don’t really care about, like –

Sarah: But these are all custardy –

Amanda: – apple pie.

Sarah: – like pumpkin pie. See, the pumpkin pie recipe I have is not very sweet, but it’s also very old and comes from a Crisco cookbook, you know, to give you a sense of its age. But the –

Amanda: I wonder if it’s –

Sarah: – other pumpkin pies I’ve had and the sweet potato pie, that’s sweet, so, and those are, those are custards. Maybe they’re not pies. Maybe they’re french fries!

Amanda: What, custard uses egg, right?

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: Does pumpkin pie have egg? I’ve never made a pumpkin pie, ‘cause I don’t really eat them.

Sarah: Does my pumpkin pie recipe have egg in it?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I think it might. I only make it once a year, ‘cause I’m really the only person in the house that likes it. I, I think –

Amanda: ‘Cause I feel like the –

Sarah: – my pumpkin pie has, has an egg in it.

Amanda: And I also wonder, like, the sweet thing – is, yeah, it does have egg – if this goes into, like, a South thing where things are sweeter? Like, we, we were talking about cornbread on Twitch the other day –

Sarah: Yes, and –

Amanda: – and how North cornbread and Southern cornbread –

Sarah: – Yankee cornbread –

Amanda: – are different.

Sarah: – and Southern cornbread, yes. Afronaut is totally onto something there, though, because those pies are sweet, but maybe they’re custards. Maybe Sue’s right –

Amanda: So, yeah, sure.

Sarah: – that they’re custards.

Amanda: Twitch chat was definitely Team Southern Cornbread, ‘cause that is the superior –

Sarah: Oh, Southern cornbread all the way! We made cornbread and it had brown sugar in it, and I, my eyes nearly rolled back in my head. And then you put butter and honey on it and life is very good.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: All right, we have more food messages.

Amanda: More food opinions.

Sarah: I love food opinions.

[pop!]

Sue: This is a hundred percent my house of wheels –

[Laughter]

Sue: – strongly held opinions, minutia, and detailed arguments about food. That categorization and classification is a hundred percent what I am here for. Thank you for having this discussion.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Sue! Thank you for making the discussion –

Amanda: Thank you, Sue.

Sarah: – so, so great!

Amanda: So glad this is in your house of wheels. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes! I’m, I’m, we’re almost, like, we’re, we’re almost, like, done, but I’m going to say tell us your strongly held food opinions!

Amanda: My strongest –

Sarah: There we go.

Amanda: – food opinion that I shared with Sue that she does not agree with me: red velvet is a farce and is a terrible dessert.

Sarah: [Laughs] Are you going to lose, like, your Southern-ness? Is there going to be like a, are you going to be docked Southern points –

Amanda: No!

Sarah: – for saying that?

Amanda: I wouldn’t call it, I mean, I wouldn’t call red velvet Southern. Maybe cream cheese frosting, but that’s good on anything. But red velvet, the, the only –

Sarah: [Laughs] Including quesadillas and soup!

Amanda: Yeah, sure! The only other difference red velvet is to a chocolate cake is that it uses buttermilk instead of regular milk most of the time –

Sarah: And food coloring.

Amanda: And food coloring! That’s garbage! It’s a garbage cake, a garbage invention, and if I had a time machine I would go back in time and prevent it from ever being invented.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: That is what I would do. Red velvet –

Sarah: So red, red, red velvet cake is the Devil.

Amanda: I just don’t – like, it always has a spot on, like, a cupcake place or a cakery, and it doesn’t deserve it. It doesn’t deserve to be so, like, wildly carried. I feel like if you just called it, like, a, like, a chocolate cake with cream cheese frosting, I wouldn’t have an issue. But, like, red velvet? What does that even mean? Those words mean nothing to me.

Sarah: [Laughs] All right.

Amanda: That is my strongest food opinion! [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay! Let’s see what opinions we have in the, in the, in the bubbles.

[pop!]

Afronaut: Okay, so custards and, custards and pies we’ve got kind of confused. Okay, so what makes a pie pie, and, like, you know, the, the other, like the other, and if we’re on that, similar food because of how it’s cooked, what’s a quiche?

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs] A quiche is usually savory, right? 

Sarah: I think quiche is just –

Amanda: – right?

Sarah: A quiche is usually savory, and also it’s a very high percentage of eggs, and I feel like the amount of eggs is what differentiates these different levels of pie. So you have quiche, a custard, and then –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – a pie, but a pie wouldn’t have any egg in it. So, like, cherry or pecan or pecan chocolate and all that, that’s – blueberry – but then you have the pies with eggs, and then you have quiche, which is just all eggs with crust. This is my theory; it is a working theory; I can be corrected.

Amanda: Okay. I’m, I’ve turned to Google.

Sarah: [Laughs] Thank you for the question, Afronaut. Now, I’m going to be really thinking had about food, like, all night long.

Amanda: I turned to Google. Pie: a type of pastry that consists of an outer crust and a –

Sarah: Right?

Amanda: – filling. So sometimes –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – there’s not necessarily an outer crust. A quiche is technically a savory custard, so quiches are part of the custard family.

[Laughter]

Sarah: The genus of custard! I’m writing that down. I’m going to write a book called The Genus of Custard.

Amanda: Technically, custard can be a filling for some pies and cakes. So I feel like a custard can be a pie, but a pie can’t be a custard? Is this like a square’s a rectangle, but a rectangle – whatever that geometry phrase is? I haven’t been in school for a very long time. But, like, custard is usually milk and eggs and –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – not all pies have milk and egg.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: But all custards have milk and egg.

Sarah: Right, we have so many bubbles now. We have so many bubbles now.

Amanda: That’s fine! I’m happy to just talk.

Sarah: Let’s do it.

Amanda: I’m – yeah.

[pop!]

Guest: Okay, but what if the difference between a pie and a tart is the depth of the vessel in which it’s cooked? So, like, tarts –

Sarah: Oooh!

Guest: – tart pans tend to be very shallow versus pie dishes, which are not shallow and tend to be deeper. Also, what do you do about savory tarts? Would love to hear what you guys have to say.

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs] I, I agree on the size difference, ‘cause tarts are usually flatter.

Sarah: Yeah! The depth of the vessel does make a difference! All right. Next message.

Amanda: Because I feel like with, like, tarts, a lot of tarts are, like, sour. They’re tart, obviously – it’s in the name – and I don’t know if you want a –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I don’t know if you’d want a, like, a pie with, like, so much, like, lemon curd. Like, that might be too much –

Sarah: Mmm.

Amanda: – in terms of, like, depth. And for savory tarts, like, I’d eat one, if that was what you were curious about! [Laughs]

Sarah: We stand on the side of all, all, all dough as vessel for food items, we are in favor of.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Truest expression of human love: put the food in the dough, cook the thing.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: All right.

[pop!]

Afronaut: I am offended for red velvet cake. My goodness! [Laughs]

[pop]

[Laughter]

Amanda: Listen –

Sarah: See, now you’ve just caused a diplomatic incident.

Amanda: No. Like, I’m sorry you’re wrong, Afronaut.

[Laughter]

Sarah: God!

Amanda: I’m sorry you have to live that life. But honestly –

Sarah: Poor Afronaut.

Amanda: – what do you get out of a red velvet cake that you couldn’t get with, like, a cocoa cake with cream cheese frosting? The red dye doesn’t add anything. Just because it’s red doesn’t mean it tastes better. Right? Like –

Sarah: Well, you just get funny-colored poos, basically, all that dye in your system.

Amanda: And I lo-, I love a carrot cake, which also has cream cheese frosting. But red velvet is nothing special, I feel like, unless, unless there is some, like, magical red velvet cake that you’ve had at, like, some hole-in-the-wall bakery or whatever that just changed your life, and I would consider eating it because I do love cake. I’m, I’m steadfast.

Sarah: I mean,  it’s in the name. I understand!

Amanda: I’m steadfast in my opinion. Red velvet –

Sarah: Okay!

Amanda: – sounds like a fabric. It’s a fabric. It’s not a cake. That’s –

Sarah: [Laughs]

[pop!]

Sue: Okay, but Amanda, tell everybody how you feel about carrot cake. Why do you like carrot cake?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah!

Sue: And I just can’t stand by a cake that brazenly tells me, we’ve put carrots in it; it’s still a cake, and I expect you to be okay with that.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sue: Lie to me. Just lie. I’d rather live a house of lies. Oh, I’ve got five minutes and then I’ve got to go yell at a bunch of surgeons. Okay, bye!

[pop]

[Laughter]

Amanda: The surgeons probably deserve it.

Sarah: We, we, should we, we should yell at the surgeons about red velvet cake. We should just go in there and be like, listen!

Amanda: Hey!

Sarah: Yeah! Just tell them about red velvet cake and carrot cake.

Amanda: Have you never had, like, a chocolate zucchini cake? Like a chocolate zucchini cake –

Sarah: Bleah!

Amanda: – with, like, frosting? What do you mean, bleah! You don’t even taste it!

Sarah: Ohhh, bleah.

Amanda: You want to hear something that might gross you out but is so good?

Sarah: Oh God.

Amanda: Chrissy Teigen’s meatloaf recipe has, like, shredded carrot and mushroom in it, and it is the moistest fucking meatloaf I’ve ever made in my life.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: It is so delicious.

Sarah: The hill, the hill that I will die on is hatred of meatloaf. I hate meatloaf.

Amanda: The carrots are just, like, sweet and, and wet. [Laughs] So they’re just sweet –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – wet.

Sarah: Title of your sex tape!

Amanda: Is Sweet and Wet.

Sarah: Okay! [Laughs]

Amanda: So I understand adding it to things to make it, like, a moister, denser thing, whatever you’re putting carrots in.

Sarah: Okay.

Amanda: I like carrot cake. Sorry, I’m not going to apologize for it, Sue.

[pop!]

Guest: Okay, so I think a custard has no crust, and a pie has crust. That’s what I’m assuming, but when we go back to our old argument about pumpkin having egg, I think crème brûlée, that would be more of a custard, right? Because there’d be –

Amanda: Yes, yes!

Guest: – no crust. Anyway, those are my thoughts.

[pop]

Amanda: Crème brûlée is a custard. Having made those.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely! Absolutely, no question.

Amanda: But I feel like I’ve had –

[pop!]

Sarah: Oh, sorry!

Afronaut: All right –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Afronaut: – so, what is a pizza pie?

[pop]

Amanda: A pizza pie! You mean, like, a pizza!

Sarah: It’s a pizza.

Amanda: Is a pizza a pie?

Sarah: Yeah, it’s pizza!

Amanda: Is that what you’re saying?

Sarah: No. Well, I mean, if it’s deep dish and it’s cooked in a skillet, it might count as something like a pie, but I don’t think that it’s a pie.

Amanda: I’ve never had deep dish pizza.

Sarah: Oh! Oh my.

Amanda: I know. I’ve never had deep dish pizza –

Sarah: Well!

Amanda: – though I do get a birthday pizza every year from my favorite pizza place. But I – [sighs] – if we’re, if we’re thinking about pies in terms of shape and, like, depth and height, a deep dish pizza would fit as a pie. But, like, a regular pizza is flat. There’s not much, like –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – height to it.

Sarah: Unless you’ve got hot dogs in the crust, in which case it’s something else entirely.

Amanda: Then you might have some height! [Laughs] Then it’s an abomination upon this earth!

Sarah: [Laughs] You might have – then it’s a, then, then it is a, it is and of itself a picnic. It is just a picnic.

All right, next message.

Amanda: It is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

[Laughter]

[pop!]

Guest: Hot dogs and hamburgers are not sandwiches. They are grilled foods. I will not back down.

[pop]

[Laughter]

Amanda: A panini is a grilled sandwich!

Sarah: Yeah, it’s true! Yeah, that, that is a flaw in this, in this, in this stance here. A panini is a grilled sandwich. Totally!

Amanda: A grilled food’s not a mutually ex-, is not mutually exclusive. You can have –

Sarah: And you could put the grilled things –

Amanda: – a Venn diagram.

Sarah: – on the sandwich, right! Oh yeah, there’s definite overlap there.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: It’s, they’re, they’re not exclusive. It’s not like french fries and, and soup.

Amanda: They could be a grilled sandwich.

Sarah: Which are not the same. It could be a grilled sandwich, absolutely!

[pop!]

Guest: What are your opinions on coffee cake? ‘Cause I –

Amanda: Ooh!

Guest: – love it.

[pop]

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Oh, coffee cake! I am so in favor!

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: All the coffee cake.

Amanda: I –

Sarah: Because it’s like –

Amanda: I just – [laughs] –

Sarah: – it’s, it’s like dessert for breakfast on purpose with, with, with permission.

Amanda: I still don’t know what those little crumbs are on top of a coffee cake? They’re a mystery to me –

Sarah: Oh!

Amanda: – but they’re delicious –

Sarah: So good.

Amanda: – and I love them.

Sarah: They’re so good! Oh, they’re so good, and –

Amanda: And nobody tell me, either. Just preserve the mystery, please. [Laughs]

Sarah: No! It can just be a mystery. Like, my husband and his friends in high school were convinced that there was no way to truly define what nougat was. This can be your nougat: you don’t know what the little crispy bits on top of a coffee cake are, but they’re good. I, coffee cake –

Amanda: What the fuck is nougat?

Sarah: – is – this is, this was a mystery all through high school. I couldn’t tell you.

Amanda: I think it’s just, like, sugar, like hard sugar.

Sarah: Nah, it’s gooey sugar! It’s moist, gooey sugar – [laughs] – which is the sequel to the genus of custard, by the way. I’m going to write that down.

Amanda: Nougat can be crunchy!

Sarah: That’s true; nougat can be crunchy. But coffee cake? Oh, coffee cake –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Now I want coffee cake! Mmm.

Amanda: Big thumbs up. Team Coffee Cake.

Sarah: Hell yeah! Team Coffee Cake.

[pop!]

Afronaut: So with Sue bothered by the fact that there was a root vegetable in the cake and that it’s still that cake, okay, so what about a sweet potato pie? That’s a –

Amanda: Mmm!

Afronaut: – vegetable, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Afronaut: I hate this place.

[pop]

[Laughter]

Sarah: Afronaut, please know we like you!

Amanda: Sorry, Afronaut. So sorry.

Sarah: We like you very much! You are making our evening much more fun, so we like you!

Amanda: I –

Sarah: But I think sweet potatoes –

Amanda: I –

Sarah: – are a different kind of sweet than carrots, so they’re slightly different in terms of, you know, root tubers.

Amanda: Speaking of food hacks, like the mayonnaise on the grilled cheese, I learned this food hack, and it blows my mind. So if you ever make pecan sticky buns, which are so labor-intensive, but if you ever just like to make pecan sticky buns –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Amanda: – you, you can use mashed potatoes as a thickener for the dough –

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: – and it makes this, like, nice balance of, like, not being too dense; being, like, a little cakey; but, like, mashed potatoes as a thickener in, like, a sticky bun dough? You, I mean you wouldn’t even know mashed potatoes are in it. But –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – game, game changer. And I’m okay with –

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: – root vegetables as part of desserts. I love a sweet potato, so.

Sarah: Sweet potato, carrot –

Amanda: Sue was just –

Sarah: – all, all the way.

Amanda: Sue has very strong opinions, so. [Laughs]

Sarah: Sue just doesn’t like carrot cake. Yeah, and, you know, Sue, this is the SAT of this episode: Sue is to carrot cake as Amanda is to devil’s food, and we just have to accept it!

Amanda: No! Red velvet. I love devil’s food cake!

Sarah: Mm!

Amanda: I don’t know what you’re –

Sarah: I beg your pardon. Red velvet. I beg your pardon. Red velvet, which is, which is devil’s food dyed red with weirdness.

[pop!]

Sue: Okay, we just need to cut out all these veggies and put them in an entire different area, ‘cause they shouldn’t even be considered cake.

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I can see this argument –

Amanda: I don’t –

Sarah: – but the vegetables have found their way into the cakes, and, you know, a little fiber can be good for you!

Amanda: And most of the time you don’t even know! It’s not like you’re getting, it’s not like you’re biting into a carrot cake and out comes a baby carrot. Like, that’s not what happens.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Boi-oi-oi-oi-oing! Surprise!

Amanda: You, you, you don’t crunch into a baby carrot when you’re eating carrot cake. I feel like –

Sarah: It’s true.

Amanda: I feel like carrots, like, shredded carrots have the same consistency to me as, like, shredded coconut?

Sarah: Oh, I hate coconut! It’s like eating candle wax.

Amanda: So, like, I wonder, like, Sue, do you hate shredded coconut? You might be yelling at surgeons right now, which is totally a better use of your time.

Sarah: She’s yelling at surgeons now, so she shouldn’t be yelling at us about carrots.

Amanda: So I’m just like –

Sarah: All right, we’ve got too more.

Amanda: – curious. Okay.

[pop!]

Afronaut: And the mayonnaise, like, on the grilled cheese actually isn’t, isn’t too weird. Like, I’m half Hispanic myself. When, when we make tortas, where we’re, like, you know –

Sarah: Hell yeah!

Afronaut: – toasting the bread, instead of using butter we’ll use mayonnaise as well, so it’s not terribly too far off, and it’s really good.

[pop]

Sarah: Oh, it’s hella good.

Amanda: Yes, I love mayonnaise, but I also feel like –

Sarah: Hella good!

Amanda: – people who hate mayonnaise really hate mayonnaise and are pretty –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Amanda: – nervous about –

Sarah: I married into a family full of people like that –

Amanda: Yeah, they, they get –

Sarah: – who all hate mayonnaise.

Amanda: – pretty cagey when you’re like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – oh, I put mayonnaise in this recipe, and they’re like, what? No! I don’t like mayonnaise!

Sarah: And it’s not whitefish salad, then get the hell out of here. Yeah, oh yeah. But no, anytime where you’re toasting or crisping something, the extra fat, you’re so right, the extra fat in the mayonnaise makes the crisping and the browning, the, the –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Maillard reaction super, super good. All right, we have a question about haggis. Are you ready?

Amanda: Oh, interesting!

[pop!]

Guest: Totally random, but have either of you ever had Scottish haggis? ‘Cause I’ve tried it before, and I absolutely love it, even though it’s basically like the organs of a sheep?

[pop]

Amanda: Okay, Sarah, you –

Sarah: Yeah. It’s cooked in the sheep’s stomach, right?

Amanda: Have you had haggis?

Sarah: I have never had haggis, but I am down to try it because I feel like it’s the super-sized version of food, but it’s not in a pastry, it’s in another food.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s in the organ.

Amanda: It’s in, it’s in an organ.

Sarah: It’s, it’s, it’s in the, it’s –

Adam: Turducken?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Wait, it’s, it’s, it’s the Scottish version of turducken, or, wait, what is it that Luke, what is that Luke crawls into in, in The Empire Strikes Back?

Adam and Amanda: A tauntaun!

Sarah: Yeah, it’s, it’s, yes! It’s the, the tauntaun of food. It’s, I’m down to try it; I think it sounds great.

Amanda: I haven’t had it either, but I, I am definitely a try-anything-once in terms of food, so I would eat it. I would give it a, a try.

Sarah: So, so when we can travel, you and I should go to Scotland and eat haggis.

Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, we –

Sarah: Okay, sure, yeah, let’s do it! Yeah, we absolutely should.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: All right.

[pop!]

Sue: But now that leads into the other argument of Miracle Whip versus mayo.

[pop]

Amanda: Miracle Whip.

Sarah: Oh! Oh –

Amanda: Miracle Whip.

Sarah: – no, Duke’s mayonnaise all the way.

Amanda: Uh, Hellman’s mayonnaise, unless you want a little something extra, then Kewpie mayonnaise from Japan? Oh, so good! Kewpie mayonnaise has, like, a little, like, lemony taste to it for me? Like, citrusy?

Sarah: Oooh!

Amanda: Love Miracle Whip, but I treat it like it’s gold. I know I can get it at the grocery store anytime I want –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – but I try to use it sparingly. And sometimes, like, I’ll do half and half, like half mayonnaise, half Miracle Whip. But yeah, I’m a Hellman’s house. House, House Hellman’s.

Sarah: I have a –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I have a big tube of Duke’s mayonnaise, and it’s running out –

Amanda: Really!

Sarah: – and I’m getting nervous. Oh yeah, like the upside-down –

Amanda: You need to get more.

Sarah: – like a plastic dispenser, but you squeeze and it comes out the bottom?

Amanda: Oh! I was picturing –

Sarah: Oh yeah, massive – oh, like a, like a toothpaste tube full of mayonnaise?

Amanda: Yeah, that’s what I – [laughs] –

Sarah: That would be amazing.

Amanda: Can you imagine just putting mayonnaise on your toothbrush?

Sarah: Right, yeah. Well, I think you will tonight. I think you’ll be like, this is what I need to do with my life now. I’m going to play World of Warcraft –

Amanda: Yeah, sure.

Sarah: – and brush my teeth with mayonnaise.

Amanda: Mayonnaise, yeah.

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: Really hit rock bottom.

Sarah: [Laughs]

[pop!]

Afronaut: So on the haggis thing, that’s not, again, that’s not too far off, so if any of you have ever had –

Sarah: No?

Afronaut: – menudo, it’s –

Sarah: Yep!

Afronaut: – you know, it can be beef or pork innards, and I know when you say it that way it’s extremely off-putting, but it’s the same, only it’s a soup!

[pop]

Amanda: Well –

Sarah: Yep!

Amanda: – innards is not a, is not a, an attractive word in general.

Sarah: No. Entrails either, but –

Amanda: [Laughs] Not entrails, yeah.

Sarah: What’s it, what is it, sweetmeats? Is that another word for –

Adam: Breads. Sweetbreads.

Sarah: Sweetbreads!

Amanda: Sweetbreads. It’s brains, right?

Sarah: Yes, innards are actually called sweet- – yeah, sweetbreads is, is brains, and I think other organs too, right? Or is it just brains? It sounds much more attractive than innards.

Amanda: I think I’ve had sweetbreads.

Sarah: Sweet mayonnaise –

Amanda: I think I’ve had sweetbreads once. I don’t remember where.

Sarah: All right, let’s do one more!

Amanda: Okay.

[pop!]

Afronaut: Mayo always over Miracle Whip any day.

[pop]

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: See, I’m with, I’m with Afronaut. I’m, I’m totally with Afronaut a hundred percent.

Amanda: Listen –

Sarah: Duke’s mayonnaise all the way.

Amanda: – Afronaut, I, I feel like we could have been such good friends –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – but you have such terrible food opinions! And it’s –

Sarah: Oh no!

Amanda: – a shame. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh no! Oh!

Amanda: I’m kidding, though.

Sarah: Well, especially –

Amanda: You’re entitled to your opinions.

Sarah: A special message from me. Afronaut, buenas noches, muchisimas gracias. I, I like your food opinions, personally. And thanks for hanging out with us and having strong opinions about food this evening!

Amanda: This went off the rails in the best way.

Sarah: It went off the rails in the very best way, and I am feeling so much happier now, having heard about carrot cake, devil’s food cake, red velvet cake, and food inside dough. I’m telling you, food inside dough is just the human expression of love.

[music]

Sarah: If you liked this episode and you want to join us for our next live broadcast, it is super easy! The next podcast after-party: Tuesday, 7:30 p.m. Eastern, on Stereo. All you need to do is download the free Stereo app at stereo.com/smartbitches. You can connect with us when we’re live, and it is super fun. Sue hangs out with us, and on one of our Instagram posts she said, “You guys make me so happy. It’s like talking with friends, and then you screech about entirely inconsequential things as though they were incredibly important.” Yes, that is exactly what we do. We talk about our pets, we sing songs to our pets and then share those songs, and we’re going to do everything like that again because it’s delightful and silly, so please join us for our next podcast after-party, Tuesday, 7:30 p.m. Eastern on Stereo. Download the free app at stereo.com/smartbitches. You can connect with us when we’re live every Tuesday night, 7:30 Eastern.

Thank you again to Amanda for hanging out with me, to garlicknitter for transcribing this episode, and to the Patreon community for making sure that every, every episode is accessible to every, everyone!

As always, I end with a bad joke. This is terrible, and I love it. It’s my favorite thing to do at the end of every episode; I love it so much! Are you ready? Get ready to share a terrible joke with everyone you know! [Clears throat] Serious podcaster voice:

Did you hear about the guy who bought a fifty-one-percent share of a vampire hunting company?

Yeah. He’s now the main stake-holder.

[Laughs] It’s so silly! I love it! The main stakeholder. [Laughs more]

All right, if you want to send me bad jokes, you know I love to hear them, right? [email protected] or Sarah with an H at Smart Bitches, Trashy Books dot com [[email protected]]. Either way, I love hearing from you, and I love when you send me bad jokes.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very, very best of reading and a wonderful weekend. We’ll see you back here next week.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to listen to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of music]