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Music: www.purple-planet.com
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Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:
You can find Alexis Daria at her website, AlexisDaria.com, on Twitter @AlexisDaria, and on Instagram @AlexisDaria.
We also discussed:
- The cover artist for You Had Me at Hola, Bo Feng Lin
- The artist behind the webtoon for pre-orders: Maria Dresden
- The planner Alexis uses: HB90 Heart Breathings
- The telenovela Ingobernable (Netflix link)
- Pasión de Gavilanes (IMDB)
- Telenovela, with Eva Longoria
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Transcript
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[music]
Sarah Wendell: Good day to you! It is another chaotic day in the Quarantimes. My neighbor is having work done, both animals with loud voices are in my office, and I am attempting for like the sixth time to record this intro, so I have decided that this will be the one whether there’s noise or not. Welcome to Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, episode number 419.
My guest today is award-winning author Alexis Daria, and we talk about a little of everything, including graphic design, art, typography, languages, writing, planning, journaling, and of course her new book You Had Me at Hola. We also talk about how writing contemporary romance is changing, given, well, the chaotic contemporary landscape – of the greater universe, not just my street with work and mammals and talking. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope that you also enjoy it as well.
I will have links where you can find Alexis Daria and all of her books in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
I have compliments for this episode, which makes me so happy.
To Carolyn H.: There are historical books filled with cocktail and mixed beverage recipes dating back hundreds of years, and in every single one there is a sparkling drink named after you.
And to Kate K.: You are better than a baker’s dozen of giant perfect doughnuts with icing and sprinkles and that really, really good filling that is perfect at any time. You know, all your favorite ones.
I want to say a special hello to the Patreon community, and if you would like a compliment of your very own, head over to patreon.com/SmartBitches. The Patreon community helps keep the show going. Monthly pledges support transcripts and constant upgrades to the podcast infrastructure, and they also help me develop questions for interviews like this one, so if you would like to join, it would be awesome if you did. Have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.
Today’s show is brought to you in part by Native Deodorant. I believe reading labels is very important; I do it all the time, especially because I have very sensitive skin. And I’ve been using Native for a few weeks now? It’s terrific. Native Deodorant is formulated without aluminum, parabens, or talc, and it won’t clog sweat glands, which is a big problem for me. It’s also vegan, and it’s never tested on animals, and it works. I have been using the coconut vanilla scent, but I was also sent a sample of cucumber mint, which has now disappeared in, into my husband’s toiletry cabinet. I mean, it’s great, he loves it, but it’s not mine anymore! [Laughs] You can try Native risk-free: free shipping on every order, and Native offers thirty-day free returns and exchanges in the US. Do what I did; make the switch to Native today by going to nativedeo.com/TRASHYBOOKS, or use promo code TRASHYBOOKS and get twenty percent off your first order. That’s Native D-E-O dot com slash TRASHYBOOKS, or use promo code TRASHYBOOKS at checkout for twenty percent off your first order.
Not only is there heavy equipment outside my house right now, but the cat has decided that now is the time to eat loudly. This is a very heavy-background-noise intro, and I apologize for that. I hope that it’s not super annoying or distracting, or – [laughs] – I hope you’re enjoying all the chaos that I’m, you know, chilling here through.
This episode is also brought to you by Ritual, a daily multivitamin obsessively researched for women. It is vegan-friendly, sugar-free, non-GMO, gluten-free, allergen-free, and all of the sources are provided for you to read and research on your own. We deserve to know what we’re putting in our bodies and why, and Ritual’s founder is on a mission to reinvent the vitamin industry. Ritual is also designed to be an easy way to build a daily…ritual! Get it? I like that it is easy, that the minute I finish a bottle I get a new one, I don’t have to remember anything, and I really like that I know what’s inside each capsule and why it’s there. Apparently, so does my cat. Best of all, never makes me nauseated! Daily changes lead to big results, so start small today. Ritual is offering you ten percent off your first three months. You can try it out, satisfaction guaranteed. Go to ritual.com/SARAH – that’s S-A-R-A-H – to start your Ritual today. That’s ten percent off your first three months at ritual.com/SARAH.
As I mentioned earlier, I will have links to everything we talk about, including some of the amazing artists we discuss and the planning system that Alexis uses, in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
But now, let’s do this interview. On with my conversation with Alexis Daria.
[music]
Alexis Daria: I am Alexis Daria, and I am a contemporary romance writer living in New York City. My most recent release is You Had Me at Hola, which is a story about two actors falling in love on the set of the bilingual remake of a telenovela that I made up.
Sarah: I imagine making up the telenovela was extremely fun.
Alexis: Oh, super fun. [Laughs]
Sarah: Congratulations!
Alexis: Thank you!
Sarah: Does it feel like you’ve been waiting forever for this book to come out?
Alexis: Oh my gosh, it really does.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: Especially because we ended up moving the release out another month once we got the Target Diverse Book Club Pick news? That we –
Sarah: Congrats on that!
Alexis: Thank you! That was really cool, and I actually was glad for the extra month at that point because it allowed me to do some other things like the preorder webtoon and stuff like that, but it just reached this point where it kind of felt like it was never going to come out, or I just, like, had so much time. So even a week out I was like, oh, I still have a week. Like, there, it’s so long from now, and then I think the weekend before, I was like, oh my God, I don’t have any time, and I still have so many things to do!
[Laughter]
Sarah: When you got the news about the Target Diverse Book Club Pick, was that like a put-your-head-between-your-knees moment?
Alexis: Well, I didn’t really know what it meant? So there’ve been a bunch of things in this process where they’re like, great news! This is happening! And I’m like, cool! What does that mean?
[Laughter]
Alexis: So this was kind of another one of those things. You know, I was kind of aware of it. So my editor explained it to me; she kind of, she called me that morning and was like, can you talk, like, right away this morning? And it was like nine o’clock –
Sarah: Oh crap!
Alexis: – in the morning, and I was like, oh my God, what’s happening?
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: And she was like, it’s good news, I promise! So – [laughs] – I found out about that, and then it was this kind of whole process of mailing me, like, boxes and boxes of these, like, tip-ins to sign –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and I didn’t – she was like, I’m sure you know what those are, and I was like, I have no idea what those are!
[Laughter]
Alexis: You know, I had to sign all of these pages and develop a signature, which was also a process, ‘cause I hadn’t done that yet.
[Laughter]
Sarah: These are the things no one thinks about when it comes to a book release. Like, wait, how do I sign my name over and over and over and over again?
Alexis: Right, and I – you know, if it’s okay, I’ll talk a little bit about the signing, because I keep meaning to do a Twitter thread and haven’t done it yet.
Sarah: I would love to hear about this, so, please, talk as much as you want.
Alexis: So my background is in art, and probably every couple of years in some kind of art or design class they would make us develop a logo or something based on our initials. So I’ve done that lots of times and never been happy with the result –
[Laughter]
Alexis: – so I don’t use them. And when I used to draw, I had certain ways of signing my name on the drawings and stuff like that, but when it came to the books, because my first couple of books were in e-book only, you know, I kept thinking, oh, I should come up with a way of signing my name, and then I was like, nah, it’s too early, it’s too early; I don’t need to be doing that yet. You know, I’m getting ahead of myself. And then suddenly, you know, I had, like, postcards or something, and people were like, sign the postcard! And I was like, oh, damn it, I never –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: – figured out how I wanted to sign my name! So I just kind of had to do something in the moment, and then I was, I felt like I was stuck with that for a little bit, but when this came up I thought, okay, I really need something that I can write over and over again consistently and that isn’t going to kill my hand. So –
Sarah; Yes!
Alexis: – I sat down with my sketchbook, and I just kind of went through the ideation process of just brainstorming and trying things out and testing out different things, using different kinds of pens, and I decided I had to do something that was in script so I didn’t have to lift the pen, and I wanted to do something that was only going to be my initials so it would be shorter, because otherwise my handwriting just, like, deteriorates as my name goes on. [Laughs]
Sarah: I can barely write a check!
Alexis: Yeah.
Sarah: Like, when you write out the words of how much the check is, my hand is like, are you joking right now?
Alexis: Seriously. I journal every morning now, and, you know, you probably heard of the Morning Pages from The Artist’s Way –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Alexis: – she talks about doing three pages. I can only do one because by the end of the page my hand is just cramping so badly.
Sarah: I have a traveler’s notebook, and I draw a little box for each day on one paper, so I have six boxes, and I fill in the little box, and it’s maybe four inches by two?
Alexis: Mm-hmm?
Sarah: Maybe. That’s a lot. [Laughs]
Alexis: So I really needed something where I could kind of hold the Sharpie loosely and just have it flow and just repeat over and over and over. So I, I practiced a bunch of times, I came up with a bunch of different things – and also still wanted it to be kind of close to how I had been signing my name before, although I had not signed too many books before, so I think it was that much of an issue – but I finally came up with something, and I’m so glad I did that, because people would ask me, wow, like, does your hand hurt from writing this? And I was like, you know, it’s not even my hand hurting? It’s the repetitive motion of, like –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – shifting to the left to get the next page, putting it down, writing, and then shifting to the right –
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: – to move to the next stack, and that kind of back-and-forth motion, like, really was hurting my ribs –
[Laughter]
Alexis: – so I had to make sure to take breaks.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: But the hand was okay!
Sarah: So when you come, came up with your signature, were there things that you wanted to make sure to include, like an, like a, like an A in a certain way?
Alexis: Yes, actually.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: So – [laughs] – so my degree is in graphic design, and I have very strong opinions about typography? And I like a nice sharp A at the top. You know, as –
Sarah: Me too!
Alexis: – as oppo- – like a triangular kind of A, right? Like, like a –
Sarah: Yeah, absolutely!
Alexis: – kind of a, a rounded –
Sarah: Like a loopy A.
Alexis: – or, yeah.
Sarah: Totally.
Alexis: Whereas, when I write my name, like, normally, I do a loopy A, like a script A, but for this I wanted to have, like, a pointy A. So I, I did try to work on something that had that and doing a D that did have a loop. It’s – [laughs] – it’s weird to try to describe it without pictures, but there are pictures online.
Sarah: I totally get it! I once was waiting to pick up a prescription in the Beforetimes when you would go into places and stand where –
Alexis: Okay.
Sarah: – among other humans and breathe, and the woman behind the counter, her name might have also been Alexis, but I noticed her nametag was handwritten, and the A had this wonderful curving upstroke, a very sharp top, and then the downstroke was very straight, and then the cross of the A was also a loop going back over, but it didn’t cross the original loop, which of course sounds really weird when I describe it. It was gorgeous! And I was like, you know, I really like your nametag, and she’s like, I practiced that A for five days before I let myself write my nametag, and I was like, I know exactly how you feel! I am the same way. So it’s nice to know there’s more of us out there, right?
Alexis: Oh yeah. I mean, that’s how I write the A in my author signature now!
Sarah: Awesome!
Alexis: So it’s almost like, you know like when you draw a start without lifting the pen?
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: So it’s a little bit like that, but then it leads into the D, and then the D kind of comes up and loops down, and they kind of have like a little, like, tail at the beginning and end.
Sarah: Yep.
Alexis: So that’s what I came up with. [Laughs]
Sarah: I think that’s very cool. I think it’s – and, and I think that that’s something where you sort of, if you ever went back to your past self when you were starting writing and be like, someday you’re going to practice how you write your name, because you’re going to write your name five thousand times.
Alexis: Yeah, so this is my advice for authors out there: even if you feel silly doing it, you just have no idea if something like this is going to come up, and you want to be prepared. Just practice writing your author signature and make sure it’s something that you can repeat with consistency and ease.
Sarah: Yes. And if you’re like me and you use your real name – which I don’t always advise – make a differentiation, I think, between your signature that you put on documents and your signature that you put on books. Make those –
Alexis: Yes.
Sarah: – a slightly separate design. So for me, I actually write SB Sarah for things that I am signing as Sarah, anything related to Smart Bitches, like interaction with community, and then if there’s, like, a legal thing, obviously I’m not writing SB Sarah on legal documents, but it’s a slightly different signature, and I can tell the difference. Now, I don’t think anyone’s going to be like, I’m taking this signed piece of postcard and I’m going to forge things! It’s not that; it’s that I need to know that there’s a creative separation there.
Alexis: Right, yeah. So my name is Alexis, so I, I did want to make sure that I wrote it differently than I –
Sarah: Right!
Alexis: – would on a credit card! [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah, exactly! [Laughs]
So you talked a little bit about having more lead time before the book came out, and I was so impressed and, and really, like, curious about your strategy and your plan for promoting this book. You had this awesome Twitter countdown, which I thought was hilarious, and there’s a webtoon! Can you tell me all about this process, how you developed these ideas and what, how you decided to do the things you did?
Alexis: Sure! So I actually had a couple of approaches to this, where obviously the webtoon was a lot more thought earlier in the process –
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: – and the countdown was kind of something I thought of like a week and a half in advance. [Laughs] Regarding the webtoon, you know, I have an illustrated cover for this, and I love it. Bo Feng Lin is the artist who illustrated the cover, and he was the only artist I wanted for this, and I’m just so grateful that we were able to get him for it, because, you know, I knew we were going to have an illustrated cover, but I said, I still want it to look like a romance, and I want the, like, vibe of the story to be clear, so I’m just really happy with it. It’s still got the clinch, it’s still sexy and gorgeous, but, you know, there’s also that feeling of representation there. And, you know, I think with illustrated covers, we have a lot of opportunity there that –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – we don’t have with using stock photos, and I just want to see more beautifully illustrated covers that take advantage of that. Having that, I knew that I wanted to do some kind of preorder campaign and incentive for early buyers, because I know that the price point on these books is a little bit higher, so I wanted people who preordered to really feel like they were getting something, like, really fun and special in addition to ordering early or requesting from the library, because we love libraries. So I had been thinking about doing, like, a comic or something that maybe would mail out, you know, partnering with a story, and then obviously with everything happening I was like, all right, how can I do this digitally? And I talked about it with my agent, who is a big fan of webtoons –
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: – and she was like, why don’t you do it like a webtoon, where you just kind of like scroll through and look? So I read some, and I was like, oh, this is perfect format. So I reached out to an artist, Maria Dresden, who’s based in Spain, and I had hired her for a couple of other things in the past, and just from seeing her work I was like, you know, I know this is a big project, but I think that she will be perfect for it. And I brought it to her and kind of explained everything that I wanted to do, and she was totally on board. Now, somewhat naively, I thought like, I can just hire an artist and, like, give them the text, and then wait!
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: And it will be done – [laughs] – and that was not at all how it went. It really was three months of us collaborating on this, where I had to convert the scene into a script, which in and of itself was something I had never done before. It really was a, a different way of thinking about the story, and then she storyboarded it, and then I kind of –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – changed the script based on the storyboard, and she did some research into webtoons too, to think about format and kind of stylistic choices she could make, and she ran those past me, and then she would do sketches, and I would send her notes on the sketches, or, you know, I would say, I think we should have something like this. Do you have any ideas? And she would send me some options –
Sarah: Mm!
Alexis: – and then we would decide. So it really was this, like, wonderful back and forth, and she’s just lovely to work with. You know, I would love to do something like this again with her in the future, and I’m just so thrilled with how it turned out, and I hope that everyone who’s been able to see it really loves it too.
So that was kind of my approach for, for that, and then also I, I used another artist who’s based in Portugal, and she did a drawing for me of the characters, and then I turned that into, like, a sticker and an acrylic charm, and I partnered with Love’s Sweet Arrow to do a preorder campaign with them –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and we were really happy with how that turned out too. But I realized with doing all this stuff with the illustrations, it kind of put forward a certain idea of the book, and as I was getting tagged in early Insta-, Bookstagram reviews – I’ve been really good about not going on Goodreads at all, so I haven’t been looking at reviews –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: – but every so often I would get tagged in one on Bookstagram, so if I got tagged I would look at it and like the picture – but I noticed a lot of people were seeming very surprised by how “steamy” the book is, and I was like, well, it’s just like all of my other books and just like, you know, all the other contemporary romances I read! But I think because it’s getting marketed as a rom-com and has an illustrated cover that maybe readers who are maybe newer to romance have a certain idea in mind for what that means, and there’s definitely open-door sex scenes in this book. So I wanted to telegraph that this was a sexy book so that people would not be surprised by that or –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – you know, if that’s not what they wanted, then they would know going in.
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: So that’s where I came up with the idea for the countdown images, ‘cause I found this, this new photo shoot that had been added to Depositphotos that could kind of work for the characters. So I grew up at a time where these kind of like black and white, sexy model shots were, like, how all of fashion photography was being done.
Sarah: Right, yeah.
Alexis: Right, Calvin Klein and like all of that in the ‘90s, so my design aesthetic is a little bit influenced by that, so I said, let me take all of these, just make them black and white, add some of the text for the countdown and do these kind of like silly, like, you know, seductive phrases to go along with it, just to show that this is a sexier book, so that way people know. So that’s where that came from!
Sarah: Was it really exciting to see the images of your characters coming in when you started working with the artist?
Alexis: Oh my God, it was so amazing!
[Laughter]
Sarah: ‘Cause, you know, you have this idea of what they look like or sound like, and that, that’s all in your head, and then here it is coming at you in an image form, which is not something that writers necessarily get, even with the covers, ‘cause sometimes the covers –
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – are a completely different planet from the characters.
Alexis: Right. [Laughs] Yeah, no, it was, it was really great. You know, we really, I sent her a bunch of pictures of celebrities, you know, that I had said, these are the ones I had sent to the cover artist, and –
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: – here’s the cover. So she did some sketches to show me what she had in mind for them. With Ashton, my only notes were, like, make his shoulders more broad.
[Laughter]
Alexis: And then with Jasmine, we really, like, kind of worked hard on her outfit? Like, what her shirt was going to look like and, you know, what kind of design features it would have, so she kind of has this little tie in the front.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: You know, what kind of jewelry she would be wearing and, and stuff like that. So, and just, like, she just really nailed it with their expressions and making them look, you know, really beautiful in, in some of the panels, and then in others just, like, really kind of cute and silly –
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: – so really striking that balance, which is, it was so great. Every time she sent me an update I was like, oh my God, I love this so much!
[Laughter]
Sarah: That must be the most, like, wonderful feeling. Like, yes! I get to see them!
Alexis: Yeah.
Sarah: I don’t have to draw it! [Laughs]
Alexis: My, my critique partner Robin Lovett, you know, one of the benefits of being my critique partner is that you get to see this stuff, like, as it’s happening, so I would show her updates, and she was like, you know, I think even if no one else saw this, it would be worth it for how happy you are with it. And I was like, yeah! [Laughs] It would be!
Sarah: And the thing I love about, about, about her, her art is that there’s so much movement in it?
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Like, you, you’re, you almost get a sense that you’re getting a still from a film, which works because this is a filming, a film-based story, so it really, really works!
Alexis: Yeah, we worked a lot on that. Just, like, certain little things, like, you know, how to get that sense of movement, you know.
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: She would send me like five different options, and we’d be like, how ‘bout, how ‘bout this one? Or what if we put this kind of sound effect or this type of action line?
Sarah: Yes!
Alexis: And then luckily I did study illustration – [laughs] – so, you know, we were able to talk about it a little more easily.
Sarah: So with You Had Me at Hola, what were your favorite parts of this book? I, I have some favorite things, but I don’t want to steal your answer, so I will not go first.
Alexis: Okay.
Sarah: And I promise no spoilers. It’s, it’s so – [deep breath] – it’s so difficult sometimes to do an interview when I’ve read the book and I really liked it, and I don’t want anyone to get spoiled, but I also want to convince people that they should read it. This is quite challenging! [Laughs]
Alexis: Yeah! Okay, so no spoilers, and I’m very curious to hear your favorite scenes, but I’ll go first.
Sarah: Go ahead.
Alexis: So I think my favorite scene in the whole book is the scene with the animals?
Sarah: I can see that, yes!
[Laughter]
Alexis: It’s so funny! But I also really enjoyed – and enjoy, I enjoy going back and rereading these parts – Jasmine’s conversations with her grandmother and her cousins.
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: Those are really funny too. And then for a scene between Ashton and Jasmine, that mirror scene I think is pretty good.
Sarah: Yeah. It’s pretty, yeah. Mm-hmm! Agreed!
So for me, there’s a character aspect that I love that I want to ask you about, and then there’s also a, a specific scene that I love. The scene is when – this is in the beginning, so I don’t think it’s a spoiler – she has to wear tourist clothing –
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – to this meeting, and she has been so worried about this, this meeting for her career, and she has to go in wearing this very last-minute outfit that somebody else picked out that is, like, super sort of schlocky, and she’s like, fuck it, I’m own-, I’m owning this. This is, I’m, I’m going to roll in like this was my plan all along, and I was like, wow, I like you! [Laughs] This sort of, all right, all right, fine. Fine! Fine. I’m still going to do this anyway. It tells you so much about her character.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: I love that part!
Alexis: So that was, that was kind of intent- – I mean, it definitely was intentional. I really thought a lot about her response, and I thought, okay, you know, if I’m writing something that’s going to be billed as a rom-com, what are some of the kind of rom-com tropes that I can use in the book and then twist a little bit?
Sarah: [Laughs] It’s like the worst reverse makeover!
[Laughter]
Alexis: Right! True! But, you know, I think the, like, the bumping into each other kind of meet-disaster, the coffee spill, like, that’s, you know, a, kind of a, a recognizable point, but I wanted her reaction to it to be different, where she’s, she’s not the kind of person who, you know, blows up at somebody. You know, she’s like, okay; she’s like, I know this was an accident. Like –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – it sucks, but okay. How am I going to fix this?
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: And she goes and she just tries to fix it! You know, it’s not her aim to make him feel bad about it.
Sarah: Nope.
Alexis: And of course he does – [laughs] – but –
Sarah: Well, yeah!
Alexis: But she really just tries to make the best of it, and I thought that her response to it would tell so much about who she is and then also, like, set up the story and show that she is, like, she’s a nice person! You know, and she brings in her cousins for the hype squad and –
Sarah: Yes!
Alexis: – just tries to, like, roll with it, and, you know, she’s an actress, so she’s like, all right, I’m going to, like, put on the Confidence Cloak and just –
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: – go forth!
Sarah: Yeah, it’s like a, it’s like nonstop improv and –
Alexis: Right! [Laughs]
Sarah: – the worst reverse makeover.
Alexis: Yeah! [Laughs]
Sarah: It’s, and it, and it does so much work to establish the character so quickly. So, seriously! Well played! [Laughs]
Alexis: Thank you!
Sarah: The other thing I love and I want to ask you about is the heroine’s insecurity about the fact that she doesn’t speak Spanish.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: I really, really was drawn to that part, because it’s such a, a cultural insecurity that isn’t commonly seen, and it’s, and it’s doubly affecting for her, because she’s in telenovelas and she has to learn language almost phonetically, but doesn’t have the fluency to actually have a conversation in Spanish, but she’s still operating in a very Spanish-centered culture. How, how challenging was that for you to write? What was that like?
Alexis: It’s, I mean, it’s basically my experience, so that part wasn’t too challenging. I just wanted to make sure that, you know, at no point did I make it sound like Jasmine, I, I guess, like that there was anything wrong with it.
Sarah: Right! Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Alexis: Because, you know, I think especially if you are part of the diaspora and, like, she’s already second generation –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – so there’s so many factors that go into whether or not you learn the language at home, even if you live in a bilingual household. So I did grow up in a bilingual household, but it was just kind of this thing where I, I really didn’t fluently pick up Spanish, but it was always there? So, and then I studied it in school, so I can read it and write it better than I can speak it, you know, and I can read it out loud, I can pronounce everything, but –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – in terms of conversational Spanish, just because I don’t think it that quickly –
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
Alexis: – anymore – when I was studying it in school, we really did a lot of, like, kind of immersion, so –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – I was much better with it then, but that was a long time ago.
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: So I, it’s harder for me to converse. You know, I, I can’t, like, translate in my head as quickly. It was always kind of this thing, like, my mom worked in bilingual education, so I would, like, meet her colleagues, and of course they would speak to me in Spanish, and I was like, I’m sorry, I –
Sarah: Uhhh!
Alexis: And my mom really wanted my grandmother to speak to me in Spanish, and my grandmother was like, ai, no. You know, like, she didn’t care, and my mom was like, oh my God, please!
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: And, you know, then I have other cousins who, like, their grandparents didn’t speak to them in Spanish; they didn’t speak to their parents in Spanish either, so their parents don’t have it, whereas, like, my mom and my uncle and my aunt, like, when they get together, they go back and forth between Spanish and English –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and I have to be able to keep up if I’m listening along. [Laughs] So I just kind of try to put all of that in the book, especially because as I’ve gotten older, I have realized that this is something that a lot of people, I think, in my generation who are from, you know, a Latinx culture, you know, and grew up in it but, you know, we don’t always feel like we have a good enough command of the language.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So that’s something that I, I always intended to give to Jasmine, and especially even out of her three cousins, like, they all speak different degrees, they’re at different degrees of fluency.
Sarah: Yeah. I, I loved that part for so many reasons. I am not Latinx, but I do speak Spanish because I was an exchange student –
Alexis: Mm-hmm?
Sarah: – and I was – twice, once when I was fifteen and once when I was twenty. Both times I was in Spain, and the first time I was supposed to have an English-speaking person in the family with me, but at that time Spain had something like twenty-four percent unemployment? And the English speaker got a job and – actually, he was a professional basketball player, so understandably, he was not home to teach me Spanish! He was out –
Alexis: Yeah.
Sarah: – playing basketball professionally, ‘cause obviously that’s what you’re going to do. So I’m fourteen, fifteen, and I’m tossed into this family. No one speaks English; I’m put in a Spanish Catholic high school; nobody speaks English, except for the English teacher – and I did really well in English class –
Alexis: [Laughs]
Sarah: – but I failed all my classes, and I had no choice –
Alexis: Aw!
Sarah: – but to learn by total, painful immersion.
Alexis: Wow.
Sarah: And it’s weird, because for me, so much of the second language is almost in my long-term memory? Like, it’s in my, it’s –
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – it’s like in a backup hard drive! And I can do very casual small talk? But if I’m going to have a conversation, I need to, like, either have a drink to lower my, my –
Alexis: [Laughs]
Sarah: – my mental inhibitions, or I need to sort of surround myself with other clues that will wake that part of my brain up, and so it, it can be very nerve-racking when someone’s like, oh, Sarah speaks Spanish! Get her! And I’m like, listen, I do not speak Contractor Spanish; I don’t speak Home Improvement Spanish; I don’t speak whatever the, the context is that is happening? That is not my language. I can do bar and school and restaurant and how to give directions on the subway. Those are my Spanish language packs; those are the ones you get! And it’s, it, it can feel so, like, awkward and embarrassing because I want to help, and, and that, that doesn’t, for me, come with that expectation of representation of culture, because, like I said, I’m not, I’m not Latina. What, reading Jasmine’s experience was so visceral, and it made so much of a, a, an almost relatable, deeply difficult, and hard to resolve insecurity that, much like getting spilled on and having a terrible makeover, she’s like, yep! I’m going to power through this like I do everything else. And it all fit with her character.
Alexis: I think with Jasmine, I really just wanted to show that she was able to approach these other areas of her life, right, concerning her career and stuff, with confidence and this, like, kind of leading lady, go-getter attitude, but when it came to romance, she just, like – [laughs] – couldn’t get it together. Which I, I think is relatable, you know.
Sarah: Oh yeah.
Alexis: And that was just the area where she would just kind of like lose that sense of confidence.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Yeah, I do feel like it’s, like it’s, like it’s in there. Like, in, in, in the hard drive, like, you would have to, like, reinstall it –
Sarah: Yes, exactly!
Alexis: – if you wanted to use it, but it’s true, like, there are certain, you know, areas of vocabulary that, you know, I just don’t have, so when I went to Spain in my twenties, by the end of our trip there I was able to speak Spanish with everybody that we encountered, but it was stuff like, you know, talking to people in stores or on the street or in restaurants –
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: – and I have that kind of vocabulary, but it, when it comes to –
Sarah: Totally!
Alexis: – kind of having conversations about, you know, memories or things that happened when we were children or things we want to do in the future, like, it’s just so hard for me to conjugate –
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yes! I often say –
Alexis: – in the moment.
Sarah: – I only exist in the present tense in Spanish.
Alexis: Right!
Sarah: Or, or, I’m really, if I’m really cheating and my brain is like, listen this is not happening? I use the, for the past, I use the, I think it’s the past perfect? So all I have to do is go so “Yo he comido una…” – I, I have eaten something.
Alexis: Right.
Sarah: That’s the only past you’re getting from me, because it’s the most simple; I only have to remember five words. [Laughs] But otherwise I exist solely in the present; it’s very mindful. I am only in the present tense in Spanish. [Laughs]
Alexis: Yeah. If I ever –
Sarah: I can’t do past! [Laughs]
Alexis: If I ever use a word, like, with predicate?
Sarah: Oh! [Snorts]
Alexis: Like, I feel so proud of myself. [Laughs]
Sarah: If I bust out with the subjunctive, I get champagne! [Laughs]
Alexis: Yeah. But I think that’s, you know, that’s the difference, too. It’s like there are certain things that I know from, like, my home, like certain words and phrases, and there –
Sarah: Totally.
Alexis: – there’s, like, the rest of it that came from school, so it’s, like, filed in under those kind of classifications, like subjunctive and predicate and irregular verb; you know, whatever.
Sarah: Yes. And my, my personal favorite: the Spanish second person plural, which I call y’all? So –
Alexis: Oh, is that vosotros?
Sarah: Vosotros or, you know –
Alexis: Oh –
Sarah: – all y’all. All y’all, all y’all tense.
Alexis: I, I studied Spanish in a, in a New York City public school, and they told us to just not worry about that. It was in the textbook –
Sarah: Yeah! [Laughs]
Alexis: – and they said, just ignore it. My mother can do it because my stepfather’s family is actually from Spain, so – and my mom is Puerto Rican – so when his relatives would come over, my mom would slip into, like, Castilian Spanish and –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and she would tell me later, she was like, I really had to think about it!
Sarah: Oh yeah! It’s a really useful tense – I kind of wish English had an all-y’all informal tense -but I have to remember not to use it, because it was, was, it was, like, ingrained in me from having to go to a Spanish high school and learn Spanish that yes, this is very important! Okay, y’all, like, literally no one uses this, but you guys, like, literally: y’all. [Laughs]
Alexis: In English, like, I just, you know – again, growing up in New York, I say you guys, and then I’m like, I shouldn’t say you guys, but I just sometimes say you guys. [Laughs]
Sarah: Oh, I know! I do too! I grew up in Pittsburgh, which was yinz.
Alexis: [Laughs] Oh yeah!
Sarah: So there’s yinz, and, and in Philadelphia it’s youse, or youse guys, but yinz, yinz is nice and gender, gender neutral. It’s just that no one outside of Pittsburgh knows what the heck I’m talking about!
Alexis: Right.
[Laughter]
Sarah: So I have questions from my, my Patreon community, who were very excited I was doing this interview! I am real-, I love when I, like, say, hey, I’m doing an interview this, with this person and I get, oh my gosh, that’s so great! So Colleen wanted to know, she knows that you are a super, super planner and you do really colorful things to, to track your progress on manuscripts, and she’s wondering if you found any new tips or tricks that are helping you stay focused right now during, during the pandemic or what I call the Quarantimes –
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and if that level of planning is also how you plot your, your books, or do you have a different method for your stories?
Alexis: So I am definitely a story plotter –
Sarah: Awesome!
Alexis: – and I actually spent this morning before we started talking catching up on my daily planner for this week, because I haven’t been keeping up with it, and I felt like I was such a distracted mess because I hadn’t been using my planner. So I was like, okay, I need to, like, take half an hour to an hour and just get caught up and plan out the rest of this week, because I didn’t do that Sunday night. Like –
Sarah: Yep.
Alexis: – it really, really helps me. So I’m actually using the HB90 planner system from Sarra Cannon through her Heart Breathings website? And it’s basically a quarterly planning system. So every quarter I do this, like, whole big plan for the quarter, and then keep track, you know, week to week, and she has, like, reviews and stuff. So that has really been helping me kind of extra during these Quarantimes?
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: I also, since – I think, I started a journal some time in, in March or April and then didn’t really keep up with it regularly until mid-May, but since mid-May, I have been writing in my, in a journal, one page every single day. So I try to start my day with doing a little bit of nonfiction reading and then writing a page in my journal, just, like, whatever pops into my head –
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
Alexis: – just to get it out, not like, here’s what I did yesterday or what I’m going to do today! It’s, like, not about that. It’s just, like, a brain dump. You know –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Alexis: – the idea also being like, if I am just getting words down in some format, it’ll make it easier to work on my manuscript, because I’ve already been writing something.
As for story plotting, I use Scrivener, and I kind of keep track of everything in there, but I do also have lots of, like, writing and word count stickers – [laughs] – and stuff like that that I put in my planner. Like, if I wrote that day, I put a little sticker and I write my number of words on it, and then sometimes I also have stickers that kind of represent the project that I’m working on?
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: [Laughs] So I’ll put one of those on there too, and it just, like, makes me feel like I got something done today, and I rewarded myself! So.
Sarah: Well, yeah, it’s a, it’s a decoration, a self-reward.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And going back to the, to what we were talking about, how with language it’s almost like it’s in a long-term storage and you have to boot it back up?
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: I also find that, for me, when I’m doing my tiny little box, fill the little box with, with, with words in the morning, (a) I’m not caffeinated, so my brain is a wild place and goes in –
Alexis: [Laughs]
Sarah: – lots of directions all the time, but also, it, there’s only a limited amount of space in my brain for random thoughts, and if I get them out and I put them on paper, I have more room in my brain for other things. It’s almost like –
Alexis: Yes.
Sarah: – clearing mental clutter when I do that. Does that happen for you too?
Alexis: Yes. It’s, it’s definitely that, ‘cause it’s like, yeah, you know, you’ve got all these thoughts, like, kind of swirling around, and then sometimes if I can just write them down it’s like, okay, I don’t have to think about that thing anymore. Right, it’s the same thing with my planner: once I add the thing to the to-do list, I don’t have to think, oh, I have to do that thing –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Alexis: – ‘cause I’ve written it down, and it’s there –
Sarah: Yes!
Alexis: – and I can access it when I need to. You know, and the journal helps me – I think, I think it’s Joan Didion who has a quote about this, about, like, I don’t know what I think about something until I write it down?
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: And sometimes as I’m writing, I’ll just, like, write something down and I’m like, oh! Huh! That’s how I feel about that thing. And now I’ve processed it.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yep! And, and the process of getting it out of your brain, into your arm, and into paper with a pen, I find for me, it, it’s, it’s a more intimate connection, even though I’m much faster and more comfortable typing? The writing does something different.
Alexis: It does, yeah. So I’ll, I’ll hand write at different points in my writing process too.
Sarah: Oh, interesting!
Alexis: Like, I do all of my initial character work in a notebook. Like, you know, writing, like, backstory scenes and kind of brainstorming their, their GMC, their goal, motivation, conflict, their –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – limiting beliefs and, like, all of that stuff. I do that in a notebook before I even move to Scrivener. You know, I used, like, different colored pens and stuff like that. [Laughs] I have, like, certain pen colors that’ll be for, like, that character and that project, and it just kind of helps me, like, differentiate what I’m working on and, like, the different sections in a notebook. And it also makes me feel like I’m getting a lot done, like, ‘cause then I can just, like, flip through the pages and I’m like, wow, look how much I wrote!
Sarah: Yeah! Yeah, it’s a visual, it’s visual progress.
Alexis: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah: Claudia wanted to know, wanted me to ask you, are you a big TV fan? Are you a big telenovela watcher?
Alexis: So TV’s kind of my weakness.
[Laughter]
Alexis: It is the thing that when I decided that I was going to get serious about writing, because, you know, for so long I had been an artist – like, that was my way that I identified myself –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and that writing was just something fun that I did on the side. You know, I started doing NaNoWriMo when I was twenty-one; I wrote fanfic before that. Like, I always did it, but I didn’t really take it seriously or give it due time and attention.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: And when I decided I was going to do that, I was like, okay, you know, if you want to do this, you’re going to have to make the time, right? You don’t find the time, you make the time, so what can I change or give up in this sense? And I was like, oh no! I’m going to have to give up scripted television.
[Laughter]
Alexis: So that, that was what I did, and suddenly I had lots of time for writing! Now I try not to watch too much TV while I’m drafting or while I’m really working on something, and it’s kind of the thing that I do in between. In the last couple of weeks, I finally started watching more TV again, because, you know, I was, like, working a lot of promo, and the book came out, and I had the next book due. And then, as for telenovelas, they, those are something that my grandmother watched, and she would make us leave the room when I was kid, like, when she was watching them. But I did watch soap operas with my babysitter, who’s also Puerto Rican, but as far as I know, I don’t think she watched telenovelas. I think she just watched The Young and the Restless. [Laughs]
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So I’d watch that with her when I was home sick or after school, and then I did watch, you know, I’ve watched some of the, the English remakes like Ugly Betty and Jane the Virgin, and I did watch some episodes, like, gearing up for this book. I have such a hard time saying this one: Ingobernable? It’s got Kate del Castillo, I think her name is –
Sarah: Mm!
Alexis: – in it, and she plays, like, she’s like the Mexican president’s, like, wife or something? It’s like –
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: – like, very dramatic. And then Pasion de Gavilanes, which is, like, these three brothers who, like, something happens to their sister, so they want to get revenge on this family, but then they end up falling in love with the daughters, or something along those lines.
So there were some that I watched as research – [laughs] – which is nice to be able to just watch TV as research.
Sarah: Yeah, right? Like, oh, this, this is important!
Alexis: Very important work.
Sarah: Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Alexis: And then I did rewatch Eva Longoria’s Telenovela TV show, which was short-lived, only one season, but it is brilliant and hilarious. I highly recommend it.
Sarah: Oh, it is so good!
Alexis: [Laughs]
Sarah: It was so good, oh my gosh. And I am not a TV person. Oh – one of the things I love about telenovelas, as opposed to soap operas, is that telenovelas have an end goal in sight? Like, they kind of know where they’re –
Alexis: Yeah, they’re short. [Laughs]
Sarah: Right, and they know where they’re going! And one of the things I struggle with scripted television, and I’ve talked about this on the, on the podcast before, is that I don’t trust TV writers because they don’t want to reach the end; they want to reach syndication in perpetuity and keep these people –
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – moving in circles forever and ever, and I’m like, nonononono! I am a novel reader! I need to know you know the end. If I don’t trust that you know the end, I’m not going with you! So when you watch a telenovela, you, you know that they know the end. You’re in good hands.
Alexis: Right, yeah. I’m like that too. Like, if there’s a show that I didn’t start watching when it began and then it’s –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – got like five or six seasons, or something like Supernatural where there’s like fourteen seasons, I’m like, nope! Too many episodes; can’t watch it. I am also notorious for watching like the first or second season of a show and then in the wait time between, you know, whenever the next season comes out, I’m just like, I’ve already forgotten what happened – [laughs] – and now I have other shows I’m interested in, and I just never get back to watching it.
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: You know, but there’s like, there’s so much to watch now! Although I don’t know, with –
Sarah: Oh my gosh!
Alexis: – with the pandemic, if, you know, it’s going to be harder, if they’re going to run out of stuff eventually. I’m hoping that we’ll see more animated stuff too?
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Alexis: Coming out of this time? I think that could be really cool. And that’s actually why, a lot of the times I’ll just watch, like, either half-hour comedy or half-hour animated show, because it’s short, I can, you know, oftentimes if they had commercials or something, they’re probably only like twenty, twenty-two minutes, and that’s about as long as it takes me to completely eat a meal.
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: So the one that I’ve been watching now is Avatar: The Last Airbender –
Sarah: Ooh!
Alexis: – and I will sometimes only even get through half an episode, you know, while I’m, like, working all day, and then I’ll say, okay, I’m going to take a lunch break or a dinner break, and I’ll watch half an episode –
Sarah: Yep!
Alexis: – and get back to work.
Sarah: Yep! I love that show.
Alexis: Oh, it’s so good. I’m almost done with season three.
Sarah: Oh, it’s so good!
Alexis: Yes.
Sarah: I’ve watched it with, I’ve watched it with my kids like three times already. It’s so good! One of the best villain redemption arcs I have ever seen. Ever.
Alexis: Yeah.
Sarah: Oh! When, when you were writing the telenovela in your, in your book, did you have, like, the best time writing that whole story?
Alexis: It was so much fun –
[Laughter]
Alexis: – I think also because I didn’t have to write any of the hard parts?
Sarah: Right, yeah! Just the fun parts!
Alexis: But there was definitely a point where I was like, why didn’t I just make this the story?
[Laughter]
Alexis: This is so much easier!
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: Yeah, it was – I mean, I did put a lot of thought into it, you know, like how I was going to show those scenes – that kind of took me a while to figure out – and then, like, what exactly was going to happen in all of them? So I had to figure out the entire arc of that season, what the characters were doing, what they wanted, what the conflict was, who the other side characters were, and then what was going to happen in each episode, and then just what snippet from those episodes I was going to show on the page.
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: So it was a lot of planning. I probably – [laughs] – I feel like I did more planning on that than I did with some other areas of the book even? ‘Cause I wrote that book pretty quickly.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: But those scenes ended up being so much fun to write, because it’s, it’s still Ashton and Jasmine in the scenes? But it’s as their characters, so it was really fun and kind of a technical exercise to be like, okay, where am I going to break the fourth wall?
Sarah: Right!
Alexis: Like, how can I do this in, like, a really subtle way so it doesn’t, like, kind of take the reader out of the scene, but also just lets them know, like, nope, this is still Jasmine! You’re still in her head, even though she’s, like, as Carmen right now. So it’s really fun.
Sarah: And it’s not just nesting a story in a story, it’s nesting characters inside characters!
Alexis: Right, and then there’s like this kind of double romance going on too, because the characters that they play are also falling in love, again for them.
Sarah: Right. And then you have the absolutely off-the-wall twists that happen in a good telenovela.
Alexis: Oh yeah. Like, that, that was one of the things – you know, I think I made a list at one point of, like –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: – the tropes and, like, how do I use them? Do I use them, like, in the main story? Do I use them in the show that they’re on? Like, how do I work those in?
Sarah: Where do I want to put this? In the real romance or the fake romance? Or into both?
[Laughter]
Sarah: So Teresa wanted me to ask you how the awesome reception of You Had Me at Hola impacted your, your writing process or your works in progress and how it, how has it impacted your way of thinking about promotion?
Alexis: I think that this Teresa who’s asking the question is probably a long-time friend of mine – [laughs] – ‘cause she texted me yesterday about this podcast, ‘cause she’s in your Patreon group.
Sarah: Awesome! Okay! That’s brilliant.
Alexis: So thank you, T! You know, I mean, I wrote this book last year – [laughs] – so obviously a lot of this stuff has been happening, like, after I turned it in. Oh, this is probably going to bring the energy down like a tiny bit, but as I was writing this book, one of my cousins was very ill and –
Sarah: Oh no!
Alexis: – passed away, so that was –
Sarah: I’m so sorry!
Alexis: – definitely – thank you. That was, that was definitely, like, a, a part of it as I was doing this, and so it, it’s like such a, a weird, like, space to be in, where, like –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – I was doing that, and then, you know, you edit the, you write the book at one phase in your life, and then you kind of have to wait, and then you edit the book at a different phase, and then all of the promotion for the book has been during this pandemic, so I definitely had a mental image of how I expected this release to go. I was like –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: – I’m going to have a party and, like –
Sarah: There’re going to cookies!
Alexis: – travel and, like, all the stuff –
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: – yeah. And I was like, okay, none of that is happening.
Sarah: Nope!
Alexis: How do I do this differently? So that has been, you know, I’m, I think I’m lucky in that we’re at least used to things a little bit more by now than we were even a couple of months ago? Thinking about how I was going to do events and things like the preorder campaign, like how to make all of that stuff work, you know, during these wild times we’re living in –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Alexis: – was definitely interesting, and then just all of the, the reception for the book has, has been great. You know, I, when I write, I really think about kind of the reader response –
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: – that I, I want from the story, like how I want them to feel at the end of the book and as they’re reading it and – so I feel like, in terms of that, I would say it has been a success for me personally, you know, just like the kind of, like, comments that people have made about it to me or on, you know, the Bookstagram posts and stuff like that have just been really wonderful. But – [laughs] – it’s also been a lot, and I am trying to write the next book that comes after this, which is going to be around Jasmine’s cousin Michelle, and it’s just been hard to, like, sink into it enough to, like, really, really make the kind of progress that I want to do, so it’s going slower than usual, just because I don’t have, like, the brain space – [laughs] – or the number of hours!
Sarah: Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexis: You know, and usually –
Sarah: So that’s what working on now.
Alexis: That is what I’m working on now, yeah. And I usually do a solo writing retreat when I start a new project, because I’ve realized that’s what works for me, to just, like, completely get away from everything and just –
Sarah: Oh yeah!
Alexis: – be with my book, you know, and have, like, the whole day ahead of me. Like, however I use the time that day is up to me, and I can, like, work on it and then step away and come back – and I haven’t really been able to do that, so that’s been a little bit of a struggle, but I, like, Michelle is, like, one of my favorite characters – [laughs] – so I am excited to be writing her book.
Sarah: I am very excited for her book and trying to contain myself.
[Laughter]
Sarah: And, you know, it’s, it, it’s even more strange how time is going to affect the way you perceive things. Like, you wrote this book last year, which, for now, that’s ten years ago!
Alexis: Oh my gosh, yeah.
Sarah: [Laughs] Like, now’s a completely different decade! So imagine, like, in the future, what, when, when this next book comes out, it’ll be like 2029!
Alexis: Oh my gosh, yeah. You know, like, we think about it coming out next year, and I’m like, that feels like, like a different lifetime! [Laughs]
Sarah: It really does! But at the same time, you get to preserve your timeline in the story world, so you have that nice, you have that sort of comfort of continuity in the, in the world you’re creating, too.
Alexis: Yeah, that’s true. You know, I think a big conversation happening now amongst contemporary romance writers is whether or not to include what’s happening in the books.
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: And I, I thought a lot about it. I mean, obviously, how can we not? And I think for at least the next two books in this series, for this next one, I, you know, I had already planned it and started working on it before –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – all of this happened, so I, I would have to change so much. You know, it would completely change the trajectory of the series that I have set up for it, so –
Sarah: Oh yeah!
Alexis: – it kind of can’t. And also, like, who knows what things are going to be like next year? Like –
Sarah: Right? It’s impossible to know!
Alexis: – we already – yeah! We had no idea that things would, like, be like this now, that it would last this long or, like, you know, everything else happening, so with these projects that were already planned before the pandemic started, I think I just have to, like, continue them as planned –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – but then after that, I might consider, like, you know, hopefully we’ll be on the other side of this, but who knows? Like, I’m kind of –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – in my apartment for the long haul. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah!
Alexis: So I’ll see then, but for right now, they’re just going forward.
Sarah: Well, I think in some ways – and I don’t want to be too, too, too presumptuous, because obviously I’m not going to tell you what to do; I’m not in charge of anything – but one of the elements of You Had Me at Hola was that the hurricane affected the hero, the hero’s parents, the hero’s family, and his, and this piece of his life that he’s not public about, so he has this very private pain that is known and shared by thousands and thousands of people, and it’s just something that is carried. Does that make sense?
Alexis: Yeah.
Sarah: So perhaps that’s how the pandemic will be in future books for, for, for writers: it is something that is carried, but it’s not something that’s happening actively in the story.
Alexis: Right. And I’ll tell you, when I was planning the book, when I first got the idea for it, Hurricane Maria had just happened like a few months earlier, so it was, like, very present in my mind –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – and, you know, would be for Ashton as well, but as I was, like, working on edits, it was earlier this year, so it was when the earthquakes were happening, and I was like, you know, terrified. Like, my aunt was texting me, like, she got stuck in an elevator, like, for one of them –
Sarah: Oh!
Alexis: – in her building, like, and I was like, how do I approach this? Like, I bun-, I wrote a bunch of, like, really angry author’s notes that didn’t make into the book. [Laughs] You know, but I was just like, how much of this do I put in the story? Like, do I change things now? Like –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – you know, what do I do? So I obviously did not put the earthquakes in, and instead I just kind of like wrote something in my acknowledgements, but, you know, even now, like, in my draft, I think I put in a line like, at one point, like, the hero’s, like, getting picked up at the airport, and he says something about, like, yeah, there’s still not too many people flying.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: And I have thought about where I could include notes about, like, masks. Like, just in case, if, if I decide to include that stuff. You know, if, by the time the book comes out or is, you know, I’m working edits or whatever, like, things are different, like, how can I –
Sarah: Right.
Alexis: – just note it so that it’s like something familiar in that way?
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: But no promises that – [laughs] –
Sarah: No.
Alexis: – those lines will stay in the book, but, you know, it’s just, it is something I’m thinking about.
Sarah: Yeah. And it’s hard to write a cultural change that is happening right now. It’s easier once it’s happened a little bit.
Alexis: Totally, yeah. I mean –
Sarah: Yeah.
Alexis: – I think, you know, if I were self-publishing something and I wanted to write it and set it, like, right now and could put it out before the end of this year, that would be a totally different story?
Sarah: Of course!
Alexis: But, you know, because we just don’t know and we’re in the middle of it –
Sarah: And production time is what it is.
Alexis: [Laughs] Is what it is – yes, exactly. You know, I also feel like, just personally, I prefer to talk about things, like, after I have processed them.
Sarah: Yes.
Alexis: ‘Cause, you know, when I’m going through something is, like, not when I’m going to, like, tweet about it or whatever, but after I have gone through it and processed it and then come out the other side like, okay, I understand this and I understand my feelings about it and my thoughts, then I can, like, kind of put that forth.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So with this book, what’s happening in it is kind of like, I think, me processing, like, the frustration that we’re going through now, so the feelings are there, if not the actual situational events.
Sarah: Yeah. That makes sense! That makes a lot of sense, and it’s not an easy question for any writer to have to figure out when you’re writing contemporary. That’s really difficult!
So this is my favorite question; I love asking this question: what are you reading that you want to tell people about?
Alexis: Okay, so I’ve been doing a lot of audiobooks –
Sarah: Awesome!
Alexis: – here during the pandemic. I will sit with a puzzle and listening to an audiobook for hours, and that is my downtime.
Sarah: You are not alone! It is so relaxing.
Alexis: It’s really relaxing because it, I literally cannot think about anything else. [Laughs]
Sarah: Nope!
Alexis: Like, the puzzle engages, like, my hands and, like, my eyes, and then the audiobook engages my brain, like, and I just shut everything else out. It’s great. So one that I’m listening to right now is Daring and the Duke by Sarah MacLean. I, it’s in her Bareknuckle Bastards series, and I just really love these characters and also kind of how unexpected they are?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So I’m listening to that one right now, and also the audiobook narrator for that series does a great job.
I also recently finished The Black Flamingo by Dean Atta, which is a YA novel told – it’s a little hard to tell in the audio – it’s at least partly in verse, because the character kind of like writes some poems and performs them? It’s really well done, and I listened to that, like, as an unintentional follow-up to All Boys Aren’t Blue by George M. Johnson, and both of these books are about growing up gay and black, and, you know, George’s story takes place in New Jersey in like the ‘90s, whereas The Black Flamingo takes place – you know, and George’s is a memoir; The Black Flamingo is fiction, but, you know, still very personal and takes place –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: – in London now, but there’s still a lot of parallels, and those were, like, really good to listen to.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: I would also recommend Here to Stay by Adriana Herrera, which I did blurb, so I got to read an early version of it.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Alexis: And it’s coming out soon, and it’s just, like, so cute and so sexy? It’s about a group of New Yorkers who move to Dallas and then kind of create, like, a Meetup group so that they can make friends, and I could totally see myself hanging out with them, so it, like, felt very true to me.
And then one to look out for that I also got to read early – I think it comes out next year – is Too Good to Be Real by Melonie Johnson, and it is, like, true rom-com. It is so funny, so keep an eye out for that.
[music]
Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you to Alexis Daria for hanging out with me. I will have links to her website, her Twitter and Instagram feed, and of course to all of her books, and all of the books she mentioned as well, in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
I will also be ending this episode with a really bad joke, so stay tuned for like two whole minutes, and then you’ll get a joke that’ll just make you groan at your family. It’ll be wonderful.
This episode was brought to you in part by Best Fiends. If you are looking for a way to pass the time, engage your brain, and enjoy a really cute story, your answer is Best Fiends. Best Fiends is a casual game, easy to pick up – [deep breath] – very difficult for me to put down. It is really easy to become invested in the story, the characters, the challenge of solving one more puzzle, and best of all, there are updates monthly with new levels. I love the characters, I love that each character gives you a tool to help you solve the next puzzle, and I love how challenging each one is and that little rush you get when you solve one. You can engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me, with over one hundred million downloads, this five-star-rated mobile puzzle game is a must-play. Download Best Fiends free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s Friends without the R: Best Fiends.
Thank you, as always, to our Patreon community. I often share upcoming interview news with them and ask for questions and ask for suggestions, so if you would like to be part of the podcast Patreon community, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Each and every pledge makes a deeply appreciated difference. Thank you so much, and hello again, Patreon community. You are always fabulous.
And now it’s time for the bad joke! Yay! This is my favorite part! I love this so much. This week’s joke comes from Elyse, who has been writing for Smart Bitches for many, many years and texted me this over the weekend, to which I snort-laughed and then immediately tortured my family. Are you ready? [Clears throat] Serious podcaster voice – ‘cause clearly this is a very serious, professional episode with, you know, large equipment, machine noises, a cat jumping up and down and meowing – there he goes again, seriously. Yep, very professional podcaster voice. Here we go.
Why do Shih Tzus like NASCAR?
Why do Shih Tzus like NASCAR?
Because they’re lap dogs!
[Laughs] That’s so bad, I love it! Thank you, Elyse! Lap dogs.
On behalf of everyone here, including Wilbur, who cannot decide whether he wants to be on the desk or on the floor, we wish you the very best of reading. I hope every book you pick up this weekend is wonderful, and we will see you back here next week.
Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find terrific podcasts to listen to at frolic.media/podcasts.
[boop-y music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Thanks for an enjoyable interview, Sarah and Alexis. I hear you on the language packs — I grew up with parents who spoke primarily Dutch until my older sibling started speaking English when I was two. I can generally follow simple conversations; however, I have no Dutch output (think of the limited vocabulary of a two year old). I’m always impressed with parents who manage to rear bi- or tri-lingual children.
This was such a great episode! I particularly enjoyed hearing about how Alexis developed her autograph. I’d never thought about why it might be helpful to distinguish it from how you regularly sign your name.
Hi! I thought Alexis mentioned a book by “Melody Johnson” but I didn’t catch the name. Can you please confirm/deny if my brain made that up? Thanks much
@BrandanWH, I checked the transcript and it mentions Too Good to Be Real by Melonie Johnson.