414. Listener Mail and Fantasy Romance Recs with Amanda!

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and thank you for inviting me into your eardrums again. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. This is episode number 414. Today, Amanda and I are answering listener email and making a metric crapton of romance recommendations. Gemma emailed us to say that she loves episodes with Amanda and wondered if Amanda could help her find more books like the ones that she’s been really enjoying. Yes, we can definitely do that. So we talk about Gemma’s letter, we make a bunch of fantasy romance recommendations, and we talk about what we’re reading and listening to.

Now, if you have ideas of books that we could also suggest for Gemma, or if you would like to make requests for recommendations for your own reading, we would love to hear from you! You can email us at [email protected]. We would love to hear from you and give you more recommendations because, you know, Amanda and I don’t need an excuse to talk to each other, but we would love to do more of it and give you book ideas.

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Hello and thank you to our Patreon community, who is amazing. If you have supported the show, you are helping me make sure that episodes are accessible to everyone, and you keep the show going every week. If you would like to join the Patreon community and you enjoy the show and would like to support it, please have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar a month. Every pledge is deeply, deeply appreciated.

So hello again, Patreon community. You are altogether fabulous and have excellent taste.

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I will absolutely, do not worry, provide links to all of the books that we talk about in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, and I end every episode with a bad joke, and this week’s joke is particularly terrible, because that’s how I like them. I do a lot of research to find the worst possible jokes, and I’ve heard from some of you how bad they are, which makes me very happy.

So let’s get started with me and Amanda and Gemma, making book recommendations! On with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: So I have something to show you. Check this out: in honor of our stream today, wearing the Stardew Valley T-shirt! This is –

Amanda: Ohhh!

Sarah: – my favorite part: the sleeve says FARM MADE. Isn’t it cute?

Amanda: That’s adorable!

Sarah: It was either a Hanukkah or a birthday present, one of the two. I mean, my birthday’s in June and Hanukkah’s usually in December, so it was one of the two, but I, I love this shirt. It’s one of those shirts where, you know, you see it and you’re like, oh gosh, it’s going to be really expensive! And then you get it and it’s like, this is the softest, most wonderful shirt; I will never wear anything but this shirt. I would pay a thousand dollars for this shirt.

So how you doing today? Whatcha drinking?

Amanda: A ruby red grapefruit Polar seltzer!

Sarah: Damn! Fancy!

Amanda: It’s the only way I will drink water.

Sarah: Ah! Adam went to the grocery shop today – we try to do it like once a week on Thursday mornings? So our grocery stores are out of whole wheat flour, and they are out of most forms of Sprite, which I blame on July 4th partying, which shouldn’t be happening, but what do I know?

Amanda: But isn’t there, like, a bread recipe that mixes flour and Sprite?

Sarah: Wait, is there?

Amanda: I think so.

Sarah: [Gasps]

Amanda: Hold on, keep talking. I’m going to google.

Sarah: Is that what’s going on? Oh, first google of the podcast! So wait, Sprite and flour? That’s a thing?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Either way, I –

Amanda: Sprite bread!

Sarah: Sprite bread is a thing – oh my God! [Laughs] I am telling Adam this right now. Dude! Sprite bread is a thing!

Amanda: I think it’s there to help take the place of yeast, if I remember correctly? So if there’s, like, a yeast shortage, I think you can use it, use Sprite instead.

Sarah: That’s hilarious! [Laughs] So those are the things that are missing from our grocery store! But let me tell you, my drinking menu in the quarantimes, I drink a lot of Pimm’s Cups ‘cause it’s warm and I can put fruit in them, which is healthy!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: It’s like a little alcoholic salad, to quote Linda Belcher. And I need Sprite for that. So I have Sprite, and now I have diet tonic water for my gin and tonics. I am all set.

Amanda: You’re set!

Sarah: Yeah. Though I will say one thing: in the quarantimes, we have become a family that has a lot of soda in the house, which is we- – 

Amanda: I usually don’t drink soda. If I do, it’s a diet Coke, and then sometimes I’ll put, like, vanilla vodka in it.

Sarah: Oooh! Interesting!

Amanda: So it’s like a vanilla Coke.

Sarah: That sounds good!

Amanda: But it’s a rarity that I have soda in the house.

Sarah: I generally don’t drink soda. It’s not very good for me, and I never wanted to have a bunch of soda in the house with my kids, but, look, camp is canceled; we can’t leave the house, we’re still in phase two; we’re not going anywhere. It’s ninety-plus degrees with –

Amanda: Ooh.

Sarah: – seventy percent humidity and like a seventy-two degree dew point, so, like, the air is, like, chewy. It’s as if you go outside and the world is quilt batting, and you just have to swim through it. So we’re not leaving the house, and the kids went, ah, can I have Dr. Pepper this week? Fine. Like, I don’t care.

Amanda: Sure.

Sarah: Sure, whatever. Well, the good thing about this is that at fourteen and twelve they’re old enough to be like, wow, I had a Dr. Pepper with dinner and then I had trouble sleeping, so I shouldn’t have caffeine at night. I’m like, yeah, you’re right! This is much more effective than me saying no!

[Laughter]

Amanda: No, after, like –

Sarah: It’s science! [Laughs]

Amanda: So years of, like, not drinking soda, having soda, you’re like, fuck! I can’t even finish a can! Like –

Sarah: [Laughs] No! I know you’re a Dark and Stormy person; I am a Light and Stormy person.

Amanda: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: So it’s ginger beer, gin, lime, and, you know, whatever the hell else I feel like putting in there, so I have a diet ginger beer, and there’s a point where I can’t finish a bottle of it, just an individual serving bottle. I’m like, what’s wrong with me? But all of that carbonation, my stomach is like, oh, you, you’ve got to stop now. This is ridiculous.

Amanda: I feel like any alcoholic beverage that includes ginger beer, like, I’m ordering it – like, I love a Moscow Mule, I love a Dark and Stormy – I just –

Sarah: Which is ginger beer and rum, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And Moscow Mule is ginger beer and vodka? Served in a little copper mug.

Sarah: Yep, yep!

Amanda: I don’t know –

Sarah: It’s always cool when the drink comes in a neat cup.

Amanda: I don’t know why it’s always a copper mug. Like, what’s the point? What does it do for the drink?

Sarah: It telegraphs how absolutely badass cool you are!

Amanda: [Laughs] It telegraphs, I just spent fifteen dollars on a cocktail!

[Laughter, crosstalk]

Sarah: And I don’t even get to keep this cup! [Laughs]

Well, I do have compliments for you.

Amanda: Yay for compliments!

Sarah: All right, you ready? This, this, this episode is Amanda By Request, so I’m going to read this email.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This email is from Gemma. Gemma says – and Gemma is also Scottish. I will not, I, I will not do this in any, any attempt –

Amanda: In a brogue.

Sarah: No, I will not; I do not have that skill. But please know I’m very jealous of your, of your location. Gemma says:

“First, let me say that I am a big fan of the podcast!”

Yay!

“I happened across it only a few months ago and I have been binging on all your previous episodes.”

There are 412 of them, so good luck.

“Honestly, you and your guests are such wonderful company for a variety of activities from cooking and cleaning to walking in the beautiful Scottish countryside.”

Amanda: Wow.

Sarah: Can you feel my envy right now?

Amanda: Rude. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah. Like, Gemma –

Amanda: Rude!

Sarah: [Laughs] Gemma, Gemma, send pictures, please! Send us pictures.

“Although I must admit that I listen to you at regular speed!”

That’s fine; we are envying you at regular speed, so, you know, it all works out.

Here we go! Brace yourself, Amanda. You ready?

Amanda: I’m braced! I’m holding on to the edge of my desk.

Sarah: “I especially love the episodes where you and Amanda chat about books you love and give readers recommendations for their own personal catnip. I wish the fruit based tech company podcast app had a way of filtering podcasts so I could search for the ones that Amanda appears on so that I could save the repetitive strain injury in my thumb from scrolling so far back to find those episodes.”

Amanda: You can do a search in fruit-based podcast app.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: ‘Cause I listen to a lot of True Crime, and I listen to it while I sleep, and if there’s, like, a particular episode –

Sarah: I love this. I listen to –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – True Crime while I sleep. I listen to stories of murder while I rest.

Amanda: For a long time I would routinely listen to, like, the four- or five-part, like, Jonestown episodes, but – [laughs] – you can search and it’ll bring up podcast episodes that are in your library or podcast episodes that are just, like, in the general podcast app, and usually when I’m on the podcast with Sarah, she’ll title it Sarah and Amanda –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and then those –

Sarah: I always put the guest name in the title because that’s good for search engine friendliness.

Amanda: Yeah! So if you type in Sarah and Amanda, that might –

Sarah: Or just Amanda.

Amanda: Or just Amanda – that might help you a little bit.

Sarah: Yes, but, hey, if you have requests for additional Amanda episodes –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – I’m going to make that happen, ‘cause they’re some of my favorites. I just don’t want to tax you unnecessarily and be like, hey, come on the podcast; hey, come on the podcast.

Amanda: This isn’t a hardship for me, so –

Sarah: Okay, good.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Now, Gemma says:

“I noticed that you haven’t done a podcast with readers’ questions/voicemails in a while and I was hoping that I might time this email right so that it is included whenever you next do such an episode, as I’m really struggling to find –“

Amanda: You did it! You did it, Gemma!

Sarah: You did it! This all you, girl.

“I’m really struggling to find books that do it for me and my local independent bookshop is so tiny that they don’t carry a large romance section.”

All right, game on.

“I must admit that I have only recently got back into reading fiction this year after a hiatus of nearly ten years – blame it on getting a degree and masters in law and after a long day reading the last thing I wanted to do was read.”

We get it.

“I did however listen to a lot of podcasts, and I happened across one that I must recommend to you called Sentimental Garbage. They talk about books that women love even if the critics panned them.”

That sounds relevant to my wheelhouse.

“I know you enjoy the Double Love podcast –“

I do.

“ – when you’re cross stitching –“

Indeed.

“ – and the presenter of Sentimental Garbage is also Irish and has lots of great expressions such as ‘wagon’.”

Irish insults include calling somebody a wagon.

Amanda: Okay, so when I read that, my mind went to the parlance of our times, she’s got a wagon.

Sarah: No! It’s a bad thing.

Amanda: Would that – that means that she’s got a nice butt.

Sarah: [Laughs] Someone with a wagon –

Amanda: So I was like, wagon?!

Sarah: No, that’s a bad thing! If someone’s a wagon –

Amanda: Oh.

Sarah: – they’re, they’re terrible. Oh.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: I love, I love variations in how to insult people.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I also just love the idea that you can call somebody a fucking salad? [Laughs]

Amanda: I don’t know what that means!

Sarah: It’s so funny! [Laughs]

“Anyway, I was listening to Sentimental Garbage and in one episode they discussed the A Court of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah J Maas. Their discussion was so brilliant that I ran out and bought the first book and I have been hooked on reading ever since.”

Welcome back, Gemma!

“And let me tell you, it feels really good to be back!

“My issue however –“

Are you ready?

“ – is that I can’t quite figure out where I stand on when it comes to genre. I read Sarah J Maas’s other books, and enjoyed her Throne of Glass series but it just wasn’t romantic/sexy enough for me. The first book in her Crescent City series had a lot of my catnip – a big fantasy world with lots of characters and stories and the romantic relationship between the hero and heroine a large part of that but also, in some ways, secondary. If that makes any sense?

“Other books that I have read recently and adored have been Six of Crows (and the sequel) by Leigh Bardugo. I particularly adored the Nina x Matthias relationship. And Serpent & Dove by Shelby Mahurin –“

I might be saying that wrong.

“ – which was a romp of a story. So essentially what I am looking for are stories that read like YA/NA fantasy/paranormal novels, but with smooching and sex.”

So while I’m reading this, Amanda’s just nodding and nodding –

Amanda: Yes, yes –

Sarah: – yep, yep, yep.

Amanda: – mm-hmm!

Sarah: “I think I am looking for fantasy/paranormal recommendations that are heavily plot driven but where the romance is a large secondary plotline. I have no particular preferences in respect of tropes such as enemies to lovers, friends to lovers, alpha/beta guys, etc. I will read anything (except historical).”

Amanda also nods at that. [Laughs]

“Apologies for this very long email –“

You don’t ever have to apologize for that.

“I wish I had a bad joke to finish with but I shall leave such things to the experts like yourself!

“Love and best wishes during this trying time and always.

“An avid listener,

“Gemma “

Thank you, Gemma! I have brought Amanda in specifically –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: – to address all of your book needs.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: This is going to be so expensive, and I am so sorry.

Amanda: So –

Sarah: So.

Amanda: I was, I was thinking about this all last night after I immediately vomited a bunch of recommendations into our little Google Doc about why this might appeal to you, why it appeals to me personally, because I, I love this sort of stuff, and I think with a fantasy and paranormal kind of world, often the stakes are a lot higher for the couple than in, like, a contemporary romance. Like, in a contemporary romance it’s like, oh no, you’re my brother’s best friend and it would be awkward at Thanksgiving if we, you know, boned and then broke up and then got back together. Like, that, to me, is, like, a super surmountable problem, whereas in paranormal – [laughs] – romance or fantasy romance it’s like, oh no, if we smooch, the prophecy will be complete and the world will explode!

[Laughter]

Amanda: There’s –

Sarah: So you’re saying that the world exploding weighs heavier in terms of consequence than family awkwardness.

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: There are so many plotlines that could be solved with having a difficult conversation with your family, and I’m with you.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I have so little patience for, oh, I can’t disappoint my family by dating this guy. Like, is this your life or their life? ‘Cause my, it’s yours! Come –

Amanda: And a lot of the times it would just be helpful if, like, oh yeah, the, the heroine or hero goes to therapy and learns how to set healthy boundaries and ta-da, we’re done! [Laughs]

Sarah: Is this like the, is this the new version of the Big Misunderstanding? The plot could be resolved by one conversation, or the plot could be resolved –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – by the establishment of healthy boundaries.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: That’s it! And sometimes –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – you know, in my personal life, I would definitely take the world exploding over spending an uncomfortable holiday with my family.

Sarah: Yes. I hear that!

Amanda: So even, even that outcome is more welcome.

Sarah: I’m sorry, I can’t come to Thanksgiving this year. The Earth might explode.

Amanda: So –

Sarah: You know, that’s a perfectly valid reason to skip –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – awkward family gatherings. I mean, chances are no one’s going anywhere for Thanksgiving this year?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Which means we’re going to have a lot of deep-fried turkey to eat! Woohoo!

Amanda: I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if people traveled for Thanksgiving. In my travels, I was aghast, ‘cause three out of my four flights were full.

Sarah: Oh man.

Amanda: So we have a lot of recommendations for you, Gemma.

Sarah: Ready.

Amanda: And I’ve kind of sorted them by romance. It’s like definitely a fantasy romance, paranormal romance. I have some YA titles that I feel skews older and is more like New Adult and falls into A Court of Thorns and Roses territory, and then I have romantic fantasy where romance is definitely secondary to the worldbuilding, but it definitely feels like a sweeping romantic journey.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So those are the three we’re working with here.

Sarah: I have a couple, but your, your list is much more fulsome.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And I do have a question for you: do you think Gemma is right about the elements that make up the addictive qualities for A Court of Thorn of Roses? Because I know that the – I keep wanting to call it ACoTaR – A Court of Thorns and Roses series is extremely addictive to readers.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: And do you think she’s right that it’s the fantasy world, lots of characters, a romantic relationship that’s a large part of it, but the stakes are higher for them in the fantasy plot versus the romance plot?

Amanda: I think so. I mean –

Sarah: And there’s also the archetype of the hero and the heroine in this one – or the heroes and heroines-es.

Amanda: Yes! So I think in the ACoTaR series, it follows the same couple, but also has, like, background couples?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: Which isn’t my favorite setup. I tend to like different couple focuses per book, ‘cause at some point I just get bored. I mean, the good thing about that series is that it is six books, five books?

Sarah: They’re big-ass books, but yeah.

Amanda: Yeah! Whereas, for example, Ilona Andrews, who I, I love their stuff, but I had to tap out on the Kate Daniels series ‘cause it’s like, okay, like, I don’t care anymore? It reaches to a certain point –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – that it’s like, I’m bored, which is why I prefer their Hidden Legacy series a bit better?

Sarah: Oh, that series is so good!

Amanda: Which is on my recommendation list for you, Gemma, because so far it seems like each couple set gets three books, which is fine. That is just enough for me. So first recommendation: Hidden Legacy series, Ilona Andrews. First book is Burn for Me. The first trilogy is complete, and then the start of the second trilogy, I think it starts with Sapphire Flames?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And follows the heroine’s sister. So it’s all interconnected. It starts off urban fantasy in, like, the first book and then kind of weaves in more romance elements the more you progress.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yes. It’s definitely the case.

Amanda: One book that I always recommend to people who loved A Court of Thorns and Roses is Bec McMaster’s Promise of Darkness.

Sarah: Ooh! What do they have in common?

Amanda: So Promise of Darkness has definitely the same couple, lots of kind like fairy scheming, political machinations, stuff like that.

Sarah: My cat got all excited the minute you started talking about it.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: He, like, jumped off the sofa and was, like, coming over here. He’s like, ooh, tell me about this book! He’s into it too.

Amanda: So, and I think Elyse reviewed it on the site, and it got a, a positive grade. But Bec McMaster does some really good fantasy romances in general? This is just one of her newer series?

Not sure how you feel about dragons, but I –

Sarah: Me personally?

Amanda: No! [Laughs]

Sarah: I think they’re great!

[Laughter]

Amanda: So there’s Dragon Bound by Thea Harrison and Dragon Actually by G. A. Aiken. Dragon Bound is more urban fantasy, but, like, dragon shifters are part of the world?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And Dragon Actually is more straight, like, fantasy romance, where it’s like a fantasy world with dragons and, like, warrior heroines and stuff like that and –

Sarah: That sort of faux medieval –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Like, everyone has a horse or a cart; no one has anything technological. It’s that sort of – I always think of it as – [sighs] – such a silly way to describe it, but I always think of it as soft shoes medieval?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Do you know what I mean?

Amanda: Well, when you said soft shoes, my mind immediately pictured those, like, jazz class soft shoes?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Know what I mean? So then my mind went to, like, West Side Story, medieval version.

Sarah: With, with dragons.

Amanda: With dragons! So it’s –

[Crosstalk]

Amanda: – the Sharks meet the Dragons instead of the Jets – it’s the trebuchets. I don’t know.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Dragons and the Trebuchets. [Laughs] I was trying to think of what a medieval jet would be.

I also want to mention the Immortals After Dark series by Kresley Cole.

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: I, I always give this caveat: the beginning books aren’t fantastic. They are very reminiscent of, like, early 2000s paranormal with, like, super-alpha heroes and that sort of thing, and to me –

Sarah: Little bit on the creepy side? Little bit on the –

Amanda: Yeah!

Together: – domineering side.

Amanda: But the series does find its footing a few books in – I would say like four to five books in – and Cole then definitely introduces a big overarching plotline that continues.

Sarah: What’s that thing called? The, the cataclysm? Like, the world’s going to end ‘cause they all got to battle each other? No, that’s –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – not what it’s called.

Amanda: Argh! So many people are, like, screaming at us.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: I’m going to google it.

Sarah: The cacophony –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: The hullabaloo! It’s the hullabaloo! [Laughs]

Amanda: So, let’s see.

Sarah: The cacophony.

Amanda: It won’t come up. Where is it? The ascension!

Sarah: There you go!

Amanda: Accession, Accession, sorry.

Sarah: The Accession. I like the hullabaloo better.

Amanda: The hub- – [laughs].

Sarah: Hullabaloo! What’s happening? It’s the hullabaloo!

Amanda: It sounds just like the world’s going to end in a dangerous square dance.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I could use this in square –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – dancing. I take that back.

Amanda: Instead of a Game of Thrones, A Game of Square Dances.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Or A Square Dance of Thrones.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So is, is it possible, do you think, to start the Immortals After Dark series with, like, book four? Or should you try to read at least The Warlord Wants Forever, which is a novella and not that much of a commitment?

Amanda: I’m trying to think. So the hero and heroines that show up in the first few books I don’t really remember seeing in later titles?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So I think you’ll be fine. There are characters that show up in all of the books – for example, Nix, who plays a big hand in kind of the progression of the stories. Book four used to be my absolute favorite, and then, you know, I have a whole ranking. I like that one a lot, but I don’t know! I’m a pseudo-completionist in the sense that I’ll read a contemporary or a historical romance out of order –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – but I won’t read a paranormal or fantasy romance out of order, because worldbuilding plays such a large part of those genres, and I don’t want to, you know, be more confused than I already am.

Sarah: I understand!

Amanda: So I would re- –

Sarah: At the same time, though, you know me, I suck at series.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I suck out loud at series.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, I’ll be like, all right, book one was good. That’s fine. I don’t need to read books two through forty-nine. Like, that’s fine; I’m good. But if I do get into a series, I’m always curious: all right, is this the book where I tap out? All right, I’ll read one more. Is this the book where I tap out? And then I just put it down and never go back to it. I mean, I also, I’m also the kind of person who can be, like, watching a television show and then stop in the middle of an episode and be like, I’m done now.

Amanda: We’ve talked about our, like, bad TV habits.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: And how, like, TV shows don’t know how to wrap up at, like, the highest point –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – which gives us kind of like anxiety about a series of, like, okay, when are they going to fuck us over and –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – you rage quit.

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: And the last fantasy romance I have on my list is Song of Blood and Stone by L. Penelope. I think –

Sarah: Such a good recommendation!

Amanda: – the third book is out soonish, and it –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – follows different couples in an established world.

Sarah: And the world is incredible!

Amanda: Yeah. So I think out of all of the ones I gave you, I want to say that one is probably closest to what you’ve described that you’re looking for in terms of the romance is there and it’s compelling, but it’s also, like, secondary to the larger issues at hand.

Sarah: And that’s also a, a world without a lot of technology, but there is a lot of magic and danger and politics.

Amanda: Yes.

Moving on to the YA section! [Laughs] I’ve got –

Sarah: Take a tour of our virtual bookstore.

Amanda: So I have two. One is Wintersong by S. Jae-Jones. It is the first in a completed duology. JJ was a previous podcast guest and was so much fun.

Sarah: She’s awesome, and this book is really, really good.

Amanda: And during the podcast episode, she revealed that it was steamier than what’s published, but there is some steamy sex scenes –

Sarah: Sarah J. Maas said the same thing!

Amanda: Yeah!

[Laughter]

Sarah: And Tumblr, like, flipped out about it!

Amanda: Yeah, sorry, Tumblr!

Sarah: We’re really sorry, Sarah J. Maas fans; we didn’t mean to, like, completely flip you out.

JJ was writing some serious sexytimes and then, like, dialed it back.

Amanda: Yeah. There is some sexiness in Wintersong; it definitely skews older. It’s like a Labyrinth retelling – there’s, like, a Goblin King – and it’s two books. They’re completed. I really liked them.

And then I’d also recommend Cruel Prince by Holly Black. If you like –

Sarah: Mm, good one.

Amanda: – the same feel of, you know, kind of antihero, Fae lead and then, like, a very strong heroine, and I think that series is also finished. I know there are some people who are like, I won’t read a series until it’s done!

And then romantic fantasy! So Naomi Novik does some really good romantic fantasy. Romance is usually secondary to, like, the larger things. So there’s Uprooted and Spinning Silver. I like Spinning Silver better than Uprooted, but they’re both very good if you like, you know, fairytales for adults!

And then Katherine Arden, who did The Bear and the Nightingale, another three-book series, very good.

I want to plug Deathless by Cat Valente. This book, I don’t know if I’d call it, like, a favorite, but it is one of the most memorable reading experiences I’ve ever had. The language is beautiful, and it’s, I think, like, Russian? And the main character, the heroine, becomes, like, the bride of this, like, god of death, and the whole thing is just like a giant allegory to – what is it? oh – the siege of – oh gosh – Leningrad. It’s just really good! I wish she would write more, like, dark romantic fantasy, but I, I think, like, the last thing I remember reading of hers was Space Opera, which is like Eurovision in space, which is exactly the opposite of Deathless.

[Laughter]

Amanda: And then –

Sarah: Somewhere a musician has woken up in Europe and said, yes! Eurovision in space!

Amanda: We have to make it happen! ‘Cause the Earth is garbage!

Sarah: We must make this happen. [Laughs]

Amanda: I mean, Eurovision was canceled, so you’d think like the next thing is, like, space, the final frontier!

[Crosstalk]

Sarah: Just build a giant – yeah, just build a giant space station, have them all – imagine Eurovision in zero gravity. Like, what –

Amanda: Ooh!

Sarah: – could you do in a low-gravity situation in Eurovision?

Amanda: The –

Sarah: That’d be pretty amazing.

Amanda: The space is your oyster.

Sarah: That’s right, Eurovision.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Anyone is going to set up a concert hall in space, it’s you guys; we’re counting on you.

Amanda: This is what will unite –

Sarah: The world.

Amanda: – the world –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – is a space race of sorts to host Eurovision.

Sarah: In low orbit.

Amanda: Yeah. In space.

Sarah: With, with low gravity. Yeah! I mean –

Amanda: On the moon. Whatever.

Sarah: – if we all have to battle the coronavirus, let’s all unite for Eurovision in space.

Amanda: Let’s do it!

Sarah: Yeah! I think that sounds great.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: What about Juliet Marillier?

Amanda: Oooh! I’m so mad I didn’t think of that! [Laughs] I love her books so much. I started reading them in high school. Was it the Sevenwaters series?

Sarah: Yeah, I think that’s the name of it.

Amanda: Yeah, and her newer books – so I read The Harp of Kings, which is about, like, a brother-sister bard team? And the romance definitely is a slow build. Not between the brother and sister! Let me just re-, clarify now.

Sarah: [Laughs] Thanks for clarifying that!

[Laughter]

Amanda: Not between each other. But –

Sarah: Surprise!

Amanda: – the sister has kind of like an antagonistic relationship with one of the, their, like, fellow recruits, ‘cause they’re all training to be part of this elite warrior team, but the romance increases in the next book. So I think Juliet Marillier is also a good option.

Sarah: Yeah, and A Dance with Fate comes out in the US on September 1st, so there’s going to be a new book in that series too, right?

Amanda: Yes. They’re all just, like, romantic and vast –

Sarah: Lush!

Amanda: – and –

Sarah: They’re lush.

Amanda: Oh. Yeah.

Sarah: So detailed.

Amanda: And then the last book I had was The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E. –

Sarah: Such a good choice!

Amanda: – Harrow [hare-oh], Harrow [har-oh]. This was her debut, and the sheer beauty of the writing just blew my mind and made me so angry. Because –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Do you ever just witness talent so good, and you’re like, fuck! Like, this is more good than anything has a right to be! Like, this is, that’s how I felt reading The Ten Thousand Doors of January. It, like, plays with language and is just so smart. It’s like a portal fantasy; this girl becomes, like, this unlikely guardian of these magical portals and, you know, there’s an enigmatic benefactor and a secret organization, and it’s really good. So that’s, that’s the end of my list, which is –

Sarah: I have –

Amanda: You tried!

Sarah: I did! But this is, this is not the area in which I have the most fluency, so Gemma clearly came to the right person here, because your tastes line up much more than mine do.

I would recommend the – also Ilona Andrews – the Innkeeper series. Those are a mix of fantasy and space and romance and a lot of fighting and badassery, and one of them is vampires in space, which I found absolutely terrific. I also started reading in the middle of the series, and I can hear people screaming now in horror that this is a thing I do, but this is a thing I do. I think the Innkeeper series might really work for you. They’re more, they’re not urban fantasy – space urban fantasy?

Amanda: Yeah, it, they’re hard to categorize.

Sarah: They are hard to categorize.

Another option I think that might work is The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms by N. K. Jemisin. The romance is not as present, but there is one, and if you want sweeping, incredibly intricate –

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: – really good writing, that is a great series. That’s one of the series where I convinced my husband to read it? Our tastes do not line up at all, and when I can find a fantasy series that I know is going to work for him, it makes me so happy. He loved that series, thought it was so good. He likes a fantasy world that is really, really long and detailed with a lot of lore? Like, if the book series comes with its own Wikipedia, it’s perfect.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m not even joking. That is exactly what he wants.

Amanda: And with N. K. Jemisin I always give the caveat, not for The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms, but for the Broken Earth trilogy. If I remember correctly, that’s the one that is in second person?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Which can be a little disorienting –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – for people, but I’m a huge proponent of, like, if you’re not enjoying a book, put it down. Like, I will put a book down so quickly if it doesn’t grab me within like twenty-five to fifty pages. I have no qualms about doing that. However, I think that series, or at least the first book in particular, is one that I always recommend people pushing through until at least about a hundred pages or so?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: Just to just get familiar and settle in to the second-person narration.

Sarah: Yeah. And the last one, I want to ask your opinion. Do you think the Iron Seas series, starting with The Iron Duke by Meljean Brook, would be a good idea? It’s got a little bit of old school themes to it. There’s some –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – older archetypes for characters at work, but it’s also, it’s also steampunk in an interesting and engaging way. Like, it’ll suck you in.

Amanda: I feel like if Gemma reads either Meljean Brook’s Iron Seas or Immortals After Dark, if she likes one, she’d like the other. If she doesn’t like it, then she won’t. I feel like those two are similar in archetype and tone and, like, how dark the stories can get sometimes? So if she tries one of those books, you know, like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – The Warlord Wants Forever or, what is it, The Iron Duke?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: If she –

Sarah: If she likes one, she’ll like the other.

Amanda: Yeah. If she doesn’t, probably skip the other. I mean, recommend it and –

Together: – see what happens.

Sarah: Of your list, would you say that the one book Gemma should try first is Song of Blood and Stone –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – by L. Penelope?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Yeah, I think that one matches a lot of what she’s looking for.

Amanda: And the new paperback covers are so pretty. Like –

Sarah: Oh, they’re gorgeous.

Amanda: – they’re so gorgeous. So I think if you had to narrow down where to start –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – with this list, I would say the –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – the L. Penelope series.

Sarah: Yeah, I think that’s – when, the minute you started typing it, I was like, yeah, that’s exactly it. That’s exactly what Gemma should grab next. And it’s, the third one is, if it’s not out now, it’s out extremely soon. I think it is out.

Amanda: Yeah. Can’t remember.

Sarah: And I can also mention that L. Penelope has a podcast called –

Amanda: So she does!

Sarah: – My Imaginary Friends, where she talks about writing! And listen, her voice is so nice to listen to. I don’t write fiction as a, as a habit, but I love listening to her talk about the intricacies of writing and the things that she does, partially because her perspective is fabulous, and partially ‘cause her voice is terrific.

Amanda: And she was a podcast guest with you!

Sarah: Mm-hmm! Yep! Sure was! Has been!

Amanda: So can always dip into, to that one.

Sarah: Thanks for writing to us, Gemma!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: And, and thanks for complimenting the Amanda episodes. I will create more of them by making sure that Amanda’s, you know, on Skype.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And if you want – although, if you’re in Scotland it would be like eleven o’clock at night – so twice a week, we are going to stream playing Stardew Valley, or Stardew Badly,  so if you want to listen to us chitchat and play videogames, you can do that at twitch.tv/smarttwitches.

Amanda: And there’s a, there’s a chat so you can talk to us, and –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – ask us all sorts of questions, and –

Sarah: Yes, we love questions. We’ll take book recommendations while, while we’re, you know, fishing and hoeing and mining.

Amanda: We inevitably always talk about books –

Sarah: Start talking about books.

Amanda: – at some point. [Laughs]

Sarah: I have a book question for you!

Amanda: Oh God.

Sarah: How did your library pickup go?

Amanda: Fine! So my library pickup, what happened was, is they have, like, a little appointment program, and you –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – pick an hour window –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – of when you’re going to go and get them, and pretty much everything was automated. So I live like a four-minute walk from my library branch, so –

Sarah: Oh nice!

Amanda: Yeah – so I left the house – masks are required.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: You stand outside the door, and the way my library is set up is their circulation desk is, like, directly in line with the door, so they can see when someone is waiting. And then the librarian came out, he asked me my name. Told him. He handed me my bag of books, and I was on my merry way! It took, you know, a minute.

Sarah: That’s fabulous.

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: So I have just now, so we are just now beginning to open the libraries around us, and the two nearest branches, I’m going to send you a picture in the Skype chat. This is the nearest library to me. This library is hundreds of years old. Like, there are pictures of the original parts of Kensington, Maryland, that show this building as surrounded by, like, acres of fields! So the, it’s the Noyes Library – I will post a link; this building is so cute. It is so –

Amanda: It’s so quaint!

Sarah: It is a children’s library. You walk in through that little doorway, the librarians’ desks are over to the side, and the whole of the, the whole building, the whole first floor is just open for young children. So you’ll go in there, and there’ll be kids playing and reading and story time and toys. There’s a big bucket right next to the checkout desk? This is my favorite part – this is before the quarantimes – Did you lick it? Put it here.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s the age of kids they’re dealing with here; they’re going to lick things.

Amanda: It’s a lick-it bucket!

Sarah: Yeah, it’s, it is the lick-it bucket! I love it so much. But that is the library that is easiest for me to get to without having to cross a really busy street that has a lot of traffic. Or used to have a lot of traffic. Well, that one’s closed, because you can’t socially distance in a building that small, and they’re not letting kids hang out together –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – like that anyways, so I can’t do any of my hold pickups there. I do particularly like going into a library room full of toddlers and picking up some really spicy novels?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: And handing them to the children’s librarian? I’m like, hello, yes, hi, thank you, I’ll take this, bye! So I –

Amanda: What if you put one of the spicy books into the lick-it bucket?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Like, I was curious what would happen.

Sarah: [Still laughing] The librarian would be peeved at me!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So the Noyes is not open for pickups – it’s not open at all – and we’re starting to reopen some of the other branches that I can get to for my pickups, and I have, I am so excited. Like, I feel like I have been denied the opportunity to get these books on hold in February. Like, I am so excited.

Amanda: I had forgotten what I put on hold, and then I got the notification. Like, oh yeah, that’s right. I don’t know if I want to read those right now, but I’ll take them, and then the minute it opened – so I got my books yesterday – in the last twenty-four hours, I think I’ve put four more books on hold to be picked up!

Sarah: Yep! The one that is the most anticipated for my eventual holds pickup in the library that is open is The Oracle Code graphic novel –

Amanda: Ohhh, yes!

Sarah: – which my son wants to read so badly. It is the graphic novel story of Barbara Gordon –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – and –

Amanda: I think Carrie reviewed it?

Sarah: Did she review the first one?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Or the second one? Both of them. ‘Cause this is the second one.

Amanda: I think it was the first one she reviewed.

Sarah: My younger son is so excited. He’s like, are they, can you pick it up, can you pick it up? Are they open yet? I’m so excited to read it. Meanwhile, I have, like, How to Make a Quilt, How to Sew Easy Projects. I’ve got all my crafty books, and I’m looking at ‘em and I’m like, oh yeah, I forgot about those! Yes!

Amanda: So I –

Sarah: So what did you get at the library?

Amanda: So I picked up, both of these are darker, but it’s called A Woman Like Her: The Story Behind the Honor Killing of a Social Media Star by Sanam Maher, Maher? 

Sarah: Ohhh. How come you didn’t get the audiobook to listen to while you sleep?

Amanda: [Laughs] I don’t think there was an audiobook available!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And then I got a thriller in translation that was originally written in Korean called The Only Child.

Sarah: Oooh.

Amanda: And, like, creepy children are, that, to me, is the scariest thing I’ve ever seen or read in horror is, like, creepy, creepy kid. And then I put The Family Plot by Cherie Priest on hold. This was just a book on sale, but it’s like Gothic horror where a woman who runs a salvaging team in Tennessee goes to, like, an old house to, like, strip it and get, like, architectural stuff out of it.

And then I put The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle by Stuart Turton on hold, and it’s like Clue meets Murder Mystery meets Groundhog Day. So this woman is, like, cursed to die over and over and over again in this, like, Murder Mystery type scenario until this man can figure out who did it, but the catch is –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – is that every time it resets, he inhabits the body of another person in the house.

Sarah: Ohhh! Oh my!

Amanda: It sounds trippy and really neat, and I think he has a new book coming out that I’m also interested in? So just a lot of, like, weird, fucked-up stuff right now.

Sarah: You are reading some creepy stuff! Have you started all of them? Are you, like, buffeting your books?

Amanda: So I started The Only Child briefly last night, but I haven’t really made any headway, but for the Hide Your Wallet post this month – the first one already went up, and then the second one comes out on the 15th –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – I would say most of my picks are new horror titles coming out. And I don’t know why; I’m just, there’s like a lot of indigenous horror coming out. There’s another one by – I don’t know how to pronounce her name, but it’s called Wonderland. It’s got a Shining vibes to it. Yeah, I’m just, like, in a horror mood lately.

Sarah: I can’t imagine why.

Amanda: I don’t know why! And then I’ve been watching a lot of videos on death, mainly Caitlin Doughty’s YouTube channel.

Sarah: Is it the one, Wonderland by Zoje Stage?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: That’s it!

Amanda: I think she’s Jewish. Yes.

Sarah: Oooh!

Amanda: And then she had, her previous book Baby Teeth fucked me up! Another, like, creepy kid scenario.

Sarah: Oh, that is a creepy cover too.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So on the opposite end of the spectrum, I am about to read Mary Balogh’s Truly, which was originally published in 1996. She is my podcast guest this week.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: It is such a nice interview; it is the loveliest conversation; I had the best time. I cannot wait for this episode to get out, because people are going to love it.

Amanda: So Mary –

Sarah: She –

Amanda: – doesn’t talk about lick-it buckets like we do?

Sarah: No!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: No, she does not! She’s extremely intelligent, extremely clever, very proper woman, and I would never talk about lick-it buckets to her. My, my inner thirteen-year-old was not cool during this interview. You can sort of hear my voice getting higher and higher and higher, and I have to, like, tell myself, calm down, calm down, calm down. But Truly is one of the Regencies that she’s re-releasing, but this book was originally released in 1996, and it is about the Rebecca raids in Wales where all of a sudden people put up toll booths to make the Welsh people pay money to travel and sell things, and it was a form of financial and transportational abuse and oppression, and so the middle of the night, the people would ride out under the guide of a person who was a man dressed as a woman named Rebecca. They all had a Rebecca, and they would all ride around, and they would pull down the toll booths. So in Truly, this kid who has been told by his mother who grows up in Wales among, like, regular people is told, no, no, you’re actually the son of this titled guy. You’re actually the son of this titled guy. Turns out mom wasn’t lying, and he gets taken away when he’s twelve to go to school and become, you know, the proper son of this titled guy, and when he comes back to Wales he doesn’t really fit in with anyone. And it’s at the time of the Rebecca raids, so he becomes a Rebecca.

Amanda: He becomes a Rebecca!

Sarah: That is my understanding! I haven’t read it yet, but I’m very curious about it. And the other book I’m about to read is The House in the Cerulean Sea by T. J. Klune.

Amanda: Ohhh! I feel like that’s a good one with the –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – like, tender, tender summer reading.

Sarah: Yes. And just relaxing and pretty, so I’m looking forward to that. I don’t read –

Amanda: Meanwhile, all of my books are alike, people are dying!

Sarah: [Laughs] It’s scary!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Children are creepy!

Amanda: Yeah! That goes without saying for most children.

[Laughter]

Sarah: All right, dude. Well, thank you!

Amanda: Thank you!

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again, Gemma, for emailing us. If you would like to request recommendations, Amanda and I are ready to help you out by giving you way too many books to read in your lifetime, because that’s what we do.

You can email us at [email protected], or you can leave a voicemail, although it should be a short one, at 1-201-371-3272. Or if you just want to email us a bad joke, you can do that too.

Thank you again to our Patreon community for their continued and wonderful support. Every pledge makes a deeply appreciated difference and helps keep the show going and makes every episode accessible to everyone.

And thank you to garlicknitter for this week’s transcript. [You’re most welcome! – gk]

I will have links to all of the books; do not worry. They will be in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. And if you think of one that you might think Gemma might like, email us and let us know! We’ll pass it along.

Now, I always end with a bad joke. This one is particularly bad because it’s a Scottish dad joke particularly for Gemma, because she didn’t have a joke, but she did say she walks around Scotland. We’re still jealous, so here is a terrible Scottish dad joke. I hope this works for everybody. I’m not going to do an accent; don’t worry. It’s so bad! Okay. [Laughs, clears throat] Serious podcaster voice:

Two cows are standing in a field. Which cow is going on holiday?

The one with the wee calf.

[Laughs] It’s so dumb, I love it! Wee calf, or week off if you’re American, but the one with the wee calf! [Laughs more] Oh, it’s so silly; I love it! Oh! Thank, thank you, Reddit, for the Scottish dad jokes! I hope you’re as amused by this as I am, because I’m really embarrassingly amused by this. I’m actually turning red right now; I can feel my face heating up. Great.

Thank you, Gemma! And thank you for listening. As always, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, stay safe, and we will see you back here next week!

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcasting Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to listen to just like this one! At frolic.media/podcasts.

[cute music]