385. Finding Art, And No Damn Bubble Baths: A Conversation with Tasha L. Harrison

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there, and welcome to episode number 385 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and my guest today is Tasha L. Harrison. If you need an episode that will make you laugh, this will be it. We’re going to talk about writing in multiple genres and being a supportive friend. We’re going to talk about challenges for the new year for your writerly self, specifically her 20K in five days challenge, and how she looks back on her own writing process to learn from it. Plus, she goes off about self-care and what we can do to really look after ourselves. I will have links to where you can find Tasha online in the show notes, but if you’d like to immediately go to her website, it is tashalharrison.com.

Every episode of this podcast, as you know, receives a transcript, and the transcript for this episode is brought to you by our Patreon community. Our Patreon community helps make sure the show keeps going and makes every episode accessible to everyone, so hello, Patreon community! Thank you so much for being part of the group that supports the show! If you would like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

I want to say hello to some recent Patreon supporters: to Tiffany, to Jasmine, and to Laura, thank you for joining us.

I also have a compliment, and these are so fun!

To Andi: Andi, you are a truly beautiful individual, inside and out, and you leave happiness in your wake wherever you go, so thank you for being you.

If you would like a compliment of your very own, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

At the end of the episode, I will have information about what’s coming up on Smart Bitches; I of course will have links to all of the books and things that we talk about in this episode in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast; and I will have, at the very end of this very episode, a truly terrible joke from Elyse, which I am really excited, because it’s terrible!

But let’s get started. On with my conversation with Tasha L. Harrison.

[music]

Tasha L. Harrison: My name is Tasha L. Harrison. I write romance, African-American, interracial, and multiracial – is that the – yeah, multiracial romance and erotica. I also freelance edit romance and erotica. I also podcast – [laughs] – and I also freelance write for a local magazine, an online mag, and a bunch of secret stuff that I ghostwrite for other websites. Yeah, so I, I do lots of things.

Sarah: So you’re a full-time, multifaceted, multi-genre writer.

Tasha: Yes. Well, not genre. Well, yeah, I guess it is genre. Nonfiction and fiction. Yes, yes, yes. [Laughs]

Sarah: And editor.

Tasha: And editor.

Sarah: That, that’s really cool! I have so many questions about all the, the cool stuff that you do. I know you write romance and erotica.

Tasha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: How long have you been writing? What brought you into writing romance?

Tasha: Well, I’ve been writing since I want to say like 2009? And what really brought me to it was me and my husband relocated to South Carolina with our boys, and the schools here are shit. I ended up rage-quitting public school and dragging my kids out the same day, and then I was suddenly a homeschooling, stay-at-home mom. And –

Sarah: Wow!

Tasha: Yeah, it was a little bit of a, you know, impulsive decision, which I don’t, I don’t regret. I mean, I didn’t feel it until, like, we pulled into the driveway and I was like, oh shit. Like, wait –

Sarah: What did I just do?

Tasha: – I have to actually teach these kids. What am I going to do? So yeah, so we homeschooled for a while, and while it was great and my kids were getting caught up and they thrived in the environment, I felt like my brain was melting.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: And so I started reading a bunch of books, like, I was reading like three or four books a week. And to give you some background, like, I was, I went to school for, I was an English major and all that stuff, but, you know, joined the Army, got married. Life got off track. I, it wasn’t something I intended to do, but it just, writing was always a thing that I enjoyed, but I just kind of put it on the backburner, outside of journaling. And, you know, during that time I just started writing poetry again, which was really bad, and –

[Laughter]

Tasha: And this was during MySpace days, so I used to share my little, you know, shitty, emo, navel-gazing poetry, and people were like, oh yay, claps! You’re a good writer! And that gave me a little bit more, you know, confidence around writing, so I started writing a book, which I’d never written a book before. It was a massive undertaking, and then my computer took a shit and deleted the whole thing. So –

Sarah: Nooo!

Tasha: Yes.

Sarah: Nooo!

Tasha: Like, I was in tears for weeks about this, and you know, it –

Sarah: Oh!

Tasha: – what was sad about it was I hadn’t told anybody I was writing this book. Like, I was just writing it in secret, so when I started, like, having, like, a, a mental meltdown because the computer ate my book –

Sarah: No!

Tasha: – everybody like, you wrote a book? I was like, I was, but I guess the universe doesn’t want me to do it, because – and now it’s just gone!

Sarah: Oh no!

Tasha: But then, you know, I had the, I had the bug, so after that I, you know, I started writing short stories and, you know, looking to publish traditionally. I finished a novel for NaNoWriMo in like 2010, and I shopped that around and quickly learned that, you know – it was romance – and quickly learned that, oh, you know, we already have one of these, so we can’t have yours today, you know. It’s like, well, you know, the only thing that’s the same with me and this other author is that we’re Black; our stories are totally different. But, you know –

Sarah: Huh!

Tasha: – publishing back then was very, it was very blunt. Like, there was no tempering the response. It was like, this is a great story, but we already have some stories like this and, you know, we just – you know what I mean?

Sarah: Oh gosh.

Tasha: And then when you go to look at their catalog it’s like, you don’t have stories like this. You just have one other Black author. That’s fine, but okay.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Tasha: Well, it wasn’t fine. So that was discouraging for a while, and then I was complaining about it on Twitter, and Annabel Joseph saw my tweet, and she was like, I run a romance authors group in Atlanta; why don’t you come down here one Saturday and hang out with us and see if this is the thing you need. And it was, and the rest is history.

Sarah: So you go from South Carolina to, to Atlanta a lot? Do you still hang out with that group?

Tasha: Well, the group is now disbanded, but I have some really good friends that I made from the group that we –

Sarah: Ah!

Tasha: – I was just, I was just with them this past weekend. And we’ve kind of grown as friends in publishing. One of those friends is Katie Newburg that I do my Lady Books podcast with. We pretty much get drunk and talk on FaceTime about books and writing almost every Friday. [Laughs]

Sarah: Perfect.

Tasha: And our other friend is Tiffany that, you know, she, she is involved in writing, but not so much now, but we, you know, we all still talk about romance all the time. We’re talking about books and authors and the industry and all that stuff, so yeah, I’m down there probably once a month, twice a month?

Sarah: I went to school in South Carolina; I went to Columbia College of South Carolina.

Tasha: Oh really! I live in Greenville.

Sarah: Yes, I was – oh! I know exactly where you are! Half of my friends were from Greenville.

Tasha: It was a wakeup call, or kind of like a, a culture shock, ‘cause I had never lived south of the Mason-Dixon, so even though I’d traveled up and down the East Coast, it was different moving here and then moving here –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – also when my husband was out of the military, because I didn’t have that, kind of that padding of a military environment around me.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: Oh yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: It was different.

Sarah: And it’s, it took me probably a couple years to realize how nuanced different pockets of Southern culture are?

Tasha: Oh my goodness, yes. And –

Sarah: ‘Cause when you’re outside the South, there’s the South, and it’s presented as this one thing. I mean, I grew up in Pittsburgh, but that’s another culture that’s completely unique –

Tasha: [Laughs] Yes.

Sarah: – but being in, even just in Columbia is different from being in Greenville, is different from being in Spartanburg –

Tasha: Oh –

Sarah: – and different from, obviously from Charleston and the Low Country and Edisto and all that, and then there’s other parts of the South in other states, and it’s all so nuanced!

Tasha: It is, it really is, and I’ve been here for about ten, going on eleven years, and –

Sarah: Mm-hmm?

Tasha: – it always surprises me, when I meet Southerners now I can tell where they’re from by the, the, like, the depth of their drawl? [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes!

Tasha: You know? It’s like, some of them are twangy up high like this, and then some of ‘em –

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Tasha: – talk real slow like Matthew McConaughey, you know.

Sarah: Yep! And I’m listening to him like….

Tasha: And the deeper south you go, the deeper south you go –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: – the slower and deeper, you know – like that.

Sarah: So what led you to starting a podcast where you get drunk and talk about books? I think I need to drink more on my podcast. I think you’ve inspired me.

Tasha: I wouldn’t advise it; I wouldn’t advise it.

[Laughter]

Tasha: And actually, season two, we haven’t been doing as much drinking, and we were talking about that, ‘cause we went to She Podcasts in Atlanta this past weekend, and we were talking about how, you know, it was like, you know, like, our podcast grew up. I was like, yeah, but it’s not, it’s not – it’s more like a job now. It’s not as fun as we used to, it used to be.

[Laughter]

Tasha: It’s like we’re thinking about, lot of times thinking all this stuff and, like, we don’t want to embarrass ourselves, and it was like, pish, man, that whole first season we just, we just drank and talked. Which we probably will bring back some of that, but, you know – it was really Katie’s idea. She, she’d been on me for years to create a podcast. She was just like, these conversations should be heard by other people! I was like, you’re just a millennial and you think everything we say is interesting, and that’s not true. [Laughs] And then finally, two Novembers ago she called me up and she was, she FaceTimed me, and she was like, so, we’re recording. I’ve figured it all out, I know how to do it, this is what we’re doing, and I’m pushing Record now. I was, uh, okay.

Sarah: Okay!

Tasha: I guess this is what we’re doing. And that’s how, it’s kind of –

[Laughter]

Tasha: – it’s how we ended up having a podcast! And honestly, it’s become, like, one of my favorite alternate mediums. Like, I will never do video because I couldn’t imagine having my face out there on the internet all the time in its various stages of, you know, exhaustion. So – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: – it’s –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Tasha: – podcast is, is fun and easier.

Sarah: What did you think of the She Podcasts conference? How did you enjoy it? Was it very White? 

Tasha: No, actually, it wasn’t very White, which was, I have to commend the organizers on that. They, they focused a lot on inclusion, and it was, it, it was obvious that they had done this. They had some really great –

Sarah: Oh, brilliant!

Tasha: – they had some really great presenters. The only complaint I had was, like, there were like four presentations an hour, and I felt like I missed out on a lot of stuff.

Sarah: Whoa!

Tasha: Yes.

Sarah: That’s a lot!

Tasha: It, it was like you were being held hostage in the hotel for like eight hours straight, no lie. But – yeah, so I would have, if I had one complaint it was like, I wish I could have seen and, and participated in more talks than I got to, ‘cause I only got to do a handful, ‘cause I had to choose between four an hour.

Sarah: Right.

Tasha: But yeah, it was, it was, it was really inclusive. I mean, ugh! I loved it.

Sarah: Were there any sessions that you were like, thank God I am in the room for this? Like, were there any things that, that, any, any, any talks or sessions where you were like, this, this is why I came?

Tasha: Well, I did go on to one session on imperfect allyship, and it was hosted by –

Sarah: Oh!

Tasha: – a woman named Erica Courdae, which, who I didn’t know, but who, who needs to be massively famous now, because, like, she just gave a very tongue-in-cheek, real-life interpretation of how you shouldn’t be afraid to approach situations where you don’t know much. It’s like, yes, listen, but also don’t be afraid to step in when you see someone being, you know, harassed or whatever online or, or – you know, just to, to – not be afraid to approach the topic because you’re afraid of doing it wrong. And there were so many times in there I was, it was like I was in church; like, yes – [snaps fingers] – snaps on that beat. Amen. [Laughs] You know. But, so that was, that was really great, and – there was one other one with Rachel Cook, who, hers was using your podcast to launch products and services, and the whole time I was sitting there I was like, this could work for books, this could work for books, this could work for books, like, and my mouth was –

Sarah: Oh!

Tasha: – hanging open the whole time. I was like, yes. Thank you for this fifteen minutes. I’m going to go home and look at my content and start planning things in ways that can make, you know, the podcast work for me in that, that way. So I’m excited. Those were two people –

Sarah: That is really cool.

Tasha: Yeah. And, and you know, sometimes you get, there’s, like, this level of perfectionism sometimes when you see these women, like, online or, like, they’re on their website. Like, they’re so polished –

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: – and all this, and then, you know, because, you know, podcasts are edited. Their photos are edited. No one’s really –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: Everyone’s sharing kind of a glossy interpretation of what’s really going on. But being in a room with them, you can ask some questions like the questions that we want to know the answers to, like, how many times did you fuck this up before you got it right? [Laughs] You know, what mistakes did you make –

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: – and I don’t mean the ones that you told us you made. What mistakes did you make that taught you something that made you level up the next time you tried it? That sort of stuff.

Sarah: Yes. The, the part where I get to hear from people about, here’s how I screwed up –

Tasha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – and here’s how I fix it? I love that, ‘cause it takes a certain amount of confidence and humility –

Tasha: Yeah.

Sarah: – to bring that to a room.

Tasha: Mm-hmm. And I’m, like, one of those people who, I do these after-action reports every time I write a book, like, you know, why was it hard this time? What did I struggle with?

Sarah: Oh!

Tasha: And I’m so, I’m so into dissecting my own process, and sometimes I worry that it’s, it hinders me from writing faster, but every time I try to cut it out or not examine my writing every time I do it, it feels like I’m missing something key that I learned, ‘cause every book teaches you something different, I feel. Every book needs something different –

Sarah: Wow!

Tasha: – and every book teaches you something different, and I like to stop and take time to see what I learned, you know, what mistakes did I make, that sort of thing.

Sarah: That’s really interesting! I have not heard of someone doing that before. What kinds of questions do you ask yourself, and what have you learned from your most recent books?

Tasha: One of the ways that I approach writing fiction – and this is probably another reason why it takes me so long – is, like, I like to challenge myself. I hate to do it –

Sarah: Hey, it takes as long as it takes, right?

Tasha: I, I hate to challenge myself, and I like to challenge myself, ‘cause I always get these, I have this idea-making machine in my head. I call it What If…And It’s Romance! And it’s always like some –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – crazy thing that I saw happen on the timeline, like someone was kidnapped and was living in a basement for however many years, and now they’re back in the real world and starting to try to figure out how to make that work, and they meet someone, and it’s a romance! Like, how does that work? You know what I mean? So, like, I come up with a bunch of –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – random ideas that like, and then I’ll, I’ll challenge myself. It’s like, how, how can I dig into the emotions that the characters are feeling? And after, after I do it, after I write it, I, I usually examine how effective I was in portraying the character’s emotions and growth; how well I developed a plot, because plot has always been difficult for me. You know, I really just want to make them kiss and bone –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – and that’s it.

[Laughter]

Tasha: Yay, kissing and boning! You know, which is a perfectly good romance. I read lots of romance where, like, they meet! They like each other! They kiss and bone! And in love. That’s fine. But for some reason I can’t write that way, so. Yeah, always ask myself about the plot and, you know. In my most recent, the duet I wrote, The Truth of Things and The Way Things Are, I was examining police brutality and, like, what would happen if –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – a social justice warrior fell in love with a law enforcement officer, like, and, you know, like, what happens if there’s, you know, a police-involved shooting where someone both of them know is killed. Like, how do they digest that? What emotions will they go through? How are the police punished? How does that affect them? You know? I don’t have any set –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – questions I ask myself, but I do typically – ‘cause I keep a daily journal of, you know, this is what I’m writing today; how do I feel about what I wrote today? Was it successful? So I go back through that and look at that and then do an after-action report.

Sarah: Wow!

Tasha: And sometimes I’ll, sometimes I’ll put it on the blog, but not all the time.

Sarah: That is fascinating, and I imagine it’s really very useful as you grow and, and become more strong as a writer.

Tasha: It, it does. And I, I mean, I’m not tooting my own horn, but I do think that it, like –

Sarah: Nah, toot away!

Tasha: – examining my process has definitely helped me become a better and more, a more intentional writer. You know what I mean? Just –

Sarah: Oh wow, yeah!

Tasha: – to not – like, I tend to, to get really deep into flowers and fluff and feelings and all that stuff, and it helps me ground things in something that’s concrete; like, real-life situations that are concrete help me to navigate, I don’t know, just the things that happen in real life that I, I want answers for that I never get answers for, you know?

Sarah: Yeah. It’s works through the creative process and then the process of your actual life at the same time.

Tasha: Yes. Yes.

Sarah: Wow!

Tasha: So yeah, it’s, I guess it’s therapy? [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s a kind of therapy. I think any time you spend looking at your own actions and asking, okay, why did I do this? How can I do this differently? What happened when I do this? You, you have to grow from that experience, right? Like, self-reflection is –

Tasha: I hope so.

Sarah: – right? – is super powerful!

Tasha: [Laughs] I hope so. I hope I’m growing.

Sarah: Yeah, right?

Tasha: But, ‘cause I spend a lot of time at it, I would hate to think that’s wasted time. [Laughs]

Sarah: God, I don’t think so! I mean, it, it also helps you arrive at who you are so that you can be yourself more authentically in, in, in your writing and then also in every situation.

Tasha: Definitely that. I learned a lot about myself by examining my process and what type of writer I am.

Sarah: So I also know that you write nonfiction, and I saw you recently tweeting about your column about local artists, which I think is so cool! How did that get started, and what artists have you met?

Tasha: Well, these artists are super local. Greenville has a really, has a really strong art community, like visual art community.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: It was one of the first things that I, I, I got involved in when I moved here, ‘cause I was really involved in it when we lived in Maryland, and so over the years, like, you know, First Fridays, that’s, like, my outing and, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – I, I go to, like, every year they have this thing where you can just go in and be nosy in people’s, like, personal home studios, which is, like, my favorite part. And –

Sarah: Oh, cool!

Tasha: Oh God, it’s so great!

[Laughter]

Tasha: It’s like, I just want to come in here –

Sarah: I want to do that!

Tasha: I just want to come in and be nosy and look at your stuff and see how you do things. So I, I was, I’ve always kind of done that, and I was following a local food critic – not critic; I guess a food columnist here –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – and we’d been following each other on Twitter for – I mean on Instagram – for like two or three years, and then one day she just slid in my DMs. She was like, I want you to write a column for me. I was like, excuse me? Did, did you –

Sarah: Oh –

Tasha: – like, did, did you mean to send this to me?

Sarah: – buh?

Tasha: [Laughs] She was like, yes. I was like – and then she told me the name of the magazine’s At Home Magazine, and when I say to you it’s like, it’s, it’s a rich White lady magazine, let’s be real.

Sarah: Oh, I’ve seen magazines exactly like At Home, and I’ve probably seen At Home.

Tasha: Yeah, it’s like look at all the beautiful things I have in my house. This is the wonderful dinners that I eat and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. And I was like –

Sarah: And the advertisements are completely over the top.

Tasha: Yes. Like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: I mean, like, is this real life?

Sarah: Like kitchens where you don’t want to touch anything. [Laughs]

Tasha: I’m like, is this a showroom, or is this real life? So, like, yeah. She was like, yeah, meet me for some bourbon. Like, we’re going to go out and have a drink and we’re going to talk about this, and Stephanie just – that was her name, Stephanie Burnette – she just talked me into it, and I’ve kind of been doing it ever since. And it kind of, I’d been looking to, to become a freelance writer, but I was doing it in kind of a half-assed way, ‘cause I was afraid of rejection. You know how that is. And –

Sarah: Mmm, yes.

Tasha: – you know, just having her reach out that way made me a little bit more brave about pitching. The column is really just another way for me to refill my well. You know how, like, you get creatively depleted and you can’t figure out how to get back in that space where you can write again? Seeing how –

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: – other people create, going out to –

Sarah: Oh gosh, yes.

Tasha: – it just, it really just, it, it, it fills me in a way that nothing else does. And the fact that I get to go into these people’s personal spaces and ask them all kind of personal questions? It’s – [laughs] – it’s my favorite. It’s like, how did you get here? Tell me about your childhood. Do your parents support this? Why this particular medium? Can you show me how you make it? I mean, like, it’s, it’s great. Like, the, my last article, the one that I tweeted about? This lady –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – she lives in the, the city limits of Greenville. She has a henhouse in her backyard. The house came with it. So, like, we went out there. She has a neighbor dog that comes over and just visits. Like, she has a dog, and her, the neighbor dog just comes over, comes in the doggy door and comes inside and makes himself at home, and, which she did while I was there, and then that, you know, during the interview she took me out back to, to, like, look at the hens and talk about the house and the neighborhood, which I wish could live on this street. I really, really wish I could, because there are so many artists and just, like, this vibe over there is just like, this is, these are my people. But –

Sarah: Oh, that’s cool!

Tasha: – she gave me, like – I don’t know, maybe ‘cause I’m a city girl. I probably should have experienced this long before then, but she, like, pulled eggs out of the frigging henhouse! Like, she gave me a dozen eggs that were still warm from the chicken’s butt, and I’m just like, the fuck is this?!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: I was so happy! Like, it was like the happiest experience of my life. Like, I went home and was like, heh, I’ve got twelve eggs, and they’re all different colors, and I, like, the hen had to be knocked off of it to give me the egg. Like, I can’t even! [Laughs] You know, like, this is, this is a, I guess maybe this is one of those things where, you know, like, what is that city program where they take the kids out to farmland? What do they call it? Crap.

Sarah: I know the program, and I can’t, I can’t think of it either!

Tasha: But you know what I’m talking about. It’s like they take –

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes, I do!

Tasha: – take all these inner-city kids –

Sarah: Fresh Air?

Tasha: Fresh Air, I think.

Sarah: Fresh Air?

Tasha: Is that Fresh Air?

Sarah: No, that’s NPR. That’s different. I don’t know, but I know exactly what you’re talking about!

Tasha: They take all these inner-city kids out there. They milk cows and, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – gather eggs and stuff like that? I, I had that feeling, which was like – but it was in the city. It was –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: And that one, I went to one other person’s house, and they had goats! I, it’s just, it’s very interesting to see, number one, that we’re all weirdoes, you know? And we are all –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: – we’re all fucking weirdoes.

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: We’re all weirdoes; we all have our weird little idiosyncrasies and, you know, being in someone’s house is, like, super intimate. I love, I –

Sarah: Yeah!

Tasha: – like, I like going to people’s studios, but I love, love, love it when their studio’s in their house. Like –

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Tasha: Number one, you get good snackies.

[Laughter]

Tasha: ‘Cause they, they, they lay, lay out the cheese plate for you when you come, and then, number –

Sarah: You are in the South –

Tasha: Yeah.

Sarah: – so yes!

Tasha: And sweet tea. And then number two, you know, you just, you get to see, like, you know, where they sit when they’re just dreaming up ideas! It’s just like, of all the surprise things to fall into my lap, that was the, the biggest one. Like, I feel like that is, it’s definitely enriched me as a person and a writer, ‘cause I wasn’t really super connected to Greenville. It was like, I could take or leave this place; like, I don’t care. We could move again. [Laughs] I said that to my husband all the time.

Sarah: Right.

Tasha: It was like, we don’t have to stay here. This won’t have to be our forever home. We can always leave.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: But now I finally feel like I’m putting down roots. You know, like, I go places and people know me. There’s a bartender that knows my favorite drink. You know, like, I’m getting into this –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: – small – well, I guess large. This is a large town; it’s not a small town.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: But it feels small to me ‘cause, you know, Baltimore, Philly, those are –

Sarah: Those are big.

Tasha: Yeah.

Sarah: It sounds like going out and meeting local artists and cultivating this column has not only introduced you to really cool art, but also connected you to where you live. Do you have any tips for people who are thinking, oh! I wonder if there’s any local artists near me? Like, where you can find artists – not that you want to, like, walk up and be like, hey, can I see your house? But – [laughs] – where can you, where can you look for local art? Or do you have any advice for people who want to look for local artists around them?

Tasha: I think, I think most cities have, like, during the warmer months they have, like, a First Fridays where you can go, like the, the local artists will, and the galleries will open their doors to have people come in?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: So try that first. If you’re interested in taking any, if, if, you could take art classes, and that helps a lot?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: And I don’t know, just being open. You know, it’s real easy as a writer to get into our little hidey-holes and, you know, look at things on Instagram and feel like, oh, that’s me being involved in my community! No. Like, you have to actually leave the house.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: And as painful as it is, you know, sometimes, you know, you make plans for the distant future and then that day comes and you’re like, fuck! I have to actually put on real pants and go out! Why did I do this to myself?

Sarah: I know!

Tasha: But majority of the time, once, you know, once I get past the, like, okay, people are waiting for me to show up. Let me put some pants on and cover up these holes under my eyes, and – [laughs] – and go out here and talk to people, it’s always enriching, you know. Even if you feel –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – really uncomfortable, I almost always have a good takeaway, even if I get there and I feel like, ohhh, I’m a weirdo here. [Laughs] You know?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: And it’s like –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: – yeah. My ski-, my shirt feels very itchy; I don’t, my pants are too tight. There’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – all they have is –

Sarah: I’m not comfortable.

Tasha: – all they have is white wine; I hate wine. [Laughs] You know, like, this is not –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: But every time I go out, you know, it’s like, okay, so, this wasn’t as bad as thought it was, in hindsight. So –

Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tasha: – I mean, as cliché as it sounds, it’s like, get the fuck out of your house, girl. Like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: – you’ve got to go out. And Greenville is really easy for that, ‘cause, like, we have a whole festival season, okay. Festivals ain’t no joke here. They will shut down the whole –

Sarah: Nooo.

Tasha: They will shut down the whole main street so that you can drink beer and eat for a solid three blocks three or four times a year. I mean, it’s really easy to get out, and then, you know, the First Fridays, that’s kind of my favorite thing. I do have my favorite galleries that I always poke into now. But yeah, that’s, that’s how I built community, and it really just takes you showing up. You’ve got to add it to your to-do list and make an effort. It’s not going to be easy. It’s still not easy, even though I’ve been doing this for two years now, going out to all this stuff and, like, actually having to speak to people?

Sarah: It’s hard, right?

Tasha: Yeah, it’s like, hi, my name is Tasha! I’m a weirdo. What do you do? [Laughs] You know.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: But that’s, that’s pretty much the only advice I have.

Sarah: Go outside?

Tasha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: It’s good advice. Very good advice.

I noticed in your Twitter bio that one of the things that you added to that very, very limited real estate – they don’t give you a lot characters there –

Tasha: Mm-mm.

Sarah: – is “Creativity is a compulsion.” Now, I’ve definitely had that feeling, that the, there is only one, only one response to this situation that I’m in, and I need to go create something, whether it’s words or a podcast or something entirely offline. Like, I, I know that compulsion. How many forms of creativity do you feel that way about, and is it still a compulsion for you?

Tasha: Ah, yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

[Laughter]

Sarah: It doesn’t stop, does it?

Tasha: It doesn’t, and I was like, like, it’s like I’m always saying, turn the idea machine off! Like, I can’t keep up! Because all of it feels like something that’s so enticing that I want to do right now, right this instant; I have to.

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Tasha: Writing is pretty much dominating the, the, my brain space right, right now, because that’s something that I know I can do well – [laughs] – and, you know, people pay attention to it, but I also want to, like –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – crochet? I’ve gotten really into crystals, and I went to one of those crystal conventions where you go in there, there’s nothing but pretty rocks and weird people who dig up the rocks?

Sarah: Ohhh.

Tasha: It was one of the best Saturdays of my life. And the, the, one of the girls I was with, she bought a bunch of beads, and she was like, okay, well, I’m just going to start making bracelets and necklaces. I was like, oh my God, I used to do that when I was a kid. I want to make bracelets and necklaces!

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: And, like, calm down, Tasha. When you going to do these things? I’m like, I don’t know! I’m going to buy these beads anyway. You can’t stop me! But then there’s also, there’s other layers like, oh, you can’t just do it for fun; you have to monetize it somehow. And I’m still trying to get out of that headspace. I don’t know what that is. Like, there’s things that I can – I should have a hobby that I can do for fun and not have to worry about, how can I sell this to someone? But my brain is stuck on that track, and the creative ideas I have are always leaping onto the, you know, like, let’s go! Let’s make this into money! I’m like, I want to, but this is going to require a whole bunch of research and opening, like, a Shopify store? Like, when do you have this time?

Yeah, it really does feel like a compulsion, and I’m, you know, like, you read a lot of philosophy and stuff, and you start recognizing, like, some of these things. You’re like, people that we look back on now, like Van Gogh, and we know that they, he probably had, like, some sort, form of mental illness, and I’m like, I’m wondering, I’m like, are all really super creative or especially multi-creative people, you know, like people who are dabbling in everything, is this like a form of mental illness? I don’t know. But I also embrace it, and it might be a part of my ADD. Like, I’m just okay with having these thoughts, and sometimes I’ll spend six weeks doing something, and then I’ll give it up forever.

Sarah: That’s okay!

Tasha: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: Now I hope I did –

Sarah: I’ve been thinking similarly.

Tasha: – I hope I didn’t offend anybody with that mental illness thing, but sometimes it feels, it feels hard to contain. That’s what I mean by compulsion: like, it’s just not, this is not a decision I’m making; I have to do it.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: I was talking to someone, a friend of mine, who was a pretty prolific short story writer in, like, the early aughts and, like, contributed to all those erotica anthologies, and she just stopped writing. I was like, how did you do that?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: She’s like, I just stopped. I’m like, no, but how? Like, you don’t ever feel compelled to write? She was like, no, I just don’t. I’m like, wow, I, I don’t know that feeling. Like, I couldn’t imagine stopping anything that I have my hands in like that for such a – and, and successful at it! And not do it again. That sounds terrifying.

Sarah: Wow! That’s a thing that you can just stop?

Tasha: Ooh, now, I don’t know. Don’t go that far now.

Sarah: Oh!

Tasha: Don’t say that!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: I don’t think you can just stop, because if we could I’m, I’m pretty sure a lot of us would. Especially when you’re –

Sarah: Hmm.

Tasha: – you’re faced with so much resistance and – you know what I mean?

Sarah: Yes, and everything is uphill. Yes.

Tasha: Yeah! Like, if I could stop I would, but then, you know, these people are going to keep talking in my head. I’ve got to do something about that.

Sarah: So what things – ‘cause you know, we’ve talked about how the industry can be uphill and the, the struggle to even address your own compulsion to create can be uphill – what do you do to care for and look after yourself?

Tasha: I’m going to be one hundred percent honest: I’m not super good at it. But I’ve gotten to the point where I will, I’ve, I’ve learned to reach out to my friends, my close friends and –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – have face, you know, like, face time? Like, not just over FaceTime? But, like, get together and –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – you know, sit around and just chitty-chat or, you know, organize an event for us to go out and do, like the crystal hunting thing, which I love to do. You know, just finding some other way to facilitate self-care, and I really, I, I’m starting, it’s kind of, self-care is starting to get, like, authenticity to me because everyone is minimizing it to, like, retail therapy, and I don’t think –

Sarah: Yes.

Tasha: – I don’t – self-care is more than fucking face masks and bubble baths. Number one, I hate bubble baths! I don’t like sitting in my own filth!

Sarah: Thank you!

Tasha: If I’m sitting in a bathtub –

Sarah: Thank you!

Tasha: – the only thing I’m thinking about is getting the fuck out. My brain can’t keep still in a tub! So –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: – that’s a, like when, when people are like, oh, just take a bath, I’m like, nah!

Sarah: No!

Tasha: Nah. Nah. If you want to see me go nuts, make me get in the bathtub, because I’m like, I, first of all, all I can think about is all the soap coming off my body and resting on the top surface of the water; that’s number one. [Laughs] But, like –

Sarah: I –

Tasha: – it’s just like, okay, I can’t read my phone in here ‘cause I’m terrified of dropping it in, even though it’s waterproof. I don’t want any of my books to get wrinkled –

Sarah: Nope.

Tasha: – from the moisture. How long do I have to sit here?

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: I need to fold those clothes. This is what my brain is doing, okay?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: Like, I can’t –

Sarah: It’s not relaxing.

Tasha: It’s not relaxing! It’s getting more amped up. I can do face masks, but I’d rather do it while I’m doing something else! So, like, the whole retail and, you know, like, it’s very surface-level to me, and I think that self-care is more about, number one, recognizing when you are exhausted and not just doing it, like, as a routine, like, oh, this is Sunday; this is my self-care day, and, and not –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – you know, realizing what is making you feel the way you’re feeling. I think having real-life relationships, I think everyone is getting to that point now where, you know, talking to people in an unstructured way is something that we’re all craving.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: So, like, what I started doing, I’ve organized – I don’t want to say organized, because it’s not really organized –

[Laughter]

Tasha: Well, I did this thing, I did a random challenge at the end of August, twenty, 20K in five days, which was insane, and a, a few people joined in it with me, and we started just meeting in a Zoom Room offline and chatting for an hour on Thursdays. It’s just one of those things where it’s like, okay, these are people I know on Twitter. Now I know their faces. We’re getting to know each other.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: We’re making real connections, and I think what we’re all kind of craving when it comes to self-care is having that sense of community, knowing someone out there knows you and can care for you –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – or you can reach out to and can care for you. Like, yes, everyone should have boundaries, and you should always ask your friend before you dump on them, like, I’ve got some shit to tell you. Are you okay to hear this –

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: – right now? Which I love about my friends.

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: It’s like, look, I’ve got to do some downloading. If you’re not down to hear that right now, let me know. We can talk about anything else. I will write about it in my journal. But just having someone –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – say to you before you start, that helps, and then just having people you can do that with! I think it’s so important –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – to do that, and then, you know, moving your body. I miss, I used, was it, when I was a military and working out was like a huge part of my life, and it’s not now? And I do miss that a lot –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – but me and my dog take lots of walks, so that –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – like, that’s the kind of meditation I like. Like, walking meditation. I can go for a walk and –

Sarah: Mmm.

Tasha: – my brain can be quiet. But I’m not sitting in nobody’s bathtub.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: You can’t make me.

Sarah: I feel like we were, we were destined to meet, ‘cause I feel the same way.

Tasha: Oh my God! Like, when people are like, take a bath. It’s almost like if one more of y’all motherfuckers say take a Goddamn bubble bath, I’mma scream.

[Laughter]

Tasha: Like, I don’t want to take a bath! What else you got? [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah. And then, nobody tells a man to take a bath. No one says to a dude, go take a bubble bath.

Tasha: No, they tell them to go hang out with their friends.

Sarah: They always say this to women, like –

Tasha: Go have a beer with your friends; engage in real-life things. No one’s telling them to sit in a room by themselves in hot water like a damn lobster! What?! Like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: It just doesn’t make any sense. I get so tired and – it’s just crazy talk.

Sarah: I completely agree.

Tasha: Ohhh.

Sarah: For you, it sounds like for you what really re-energizes and replenishes you is being around or talking with other creative people –

Tasha: Oh, oh yes.

Sarah: – especially face to face.

Tasha: Yes. Yes. Yes. One hundred percent. I used to be a person who only liked to be around other writers, and I’m going to tell other writers, y’all need to stop doing that.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: Because there’s, like, kind of a, you know, especially if, you know, one person’s struggling with writing, then the conversation just goes downhill, and everybody’s in their woes, and it’s like, I don’t want to be in my woes!

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: I want to talk about things that make me feel good. I don’t want to spend an hour sitting around chatting about how I don’t know how to navigate these characters. I can do that on my own in my, my journal.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: And I think the only way that I really broke out of it, and I think this has really helped me overall, businesswise, is to start talking to other creative entrepreneurs, like people who make money using photography or painting or, you know, fiber make- – you know, I mean just seeing how other people are using their talents to make money has definitely opened my mind to other ways to be creative and how all those things can be applied to me. And it doesn’t put so much pressure on my writing anymore to where I’m, you know, just constantly sitting there staring at a cursor.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: I’ve gotten a lot more from going to other creative entrepreneur type of conventions, like Being Boss; this is one of my favorites. They, they have, like, a vacation in New Orleans every year?

Sarah: Ooh!

Tasha: Yes. It, it wasn’t supposed to be lady entrepreneurs, but it’s mostly women, and you know, there’s a woo as-, aspect to it, like Tarot cards and crystals and, you know, divine femininity and we’re all badass and – it’s just, I, I like stuff like that more than I do sitting around talking about, you know, which agents are taking this kind of manuscript. And I think that as creatives we definitely need to branch out. It doesn’t do any of us any good to be stuck in this one bubble and this echo chamber and not seeing how things move –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – on the outside, you know?

Sarah: Yeah, yeah, and it helps to think creatively and hear from creative people who are operating their own businesses in completely different artistic fields, because some of that work is similar, and some of it, some of that work is so different, if you look at it from a completely different media you, you learn more about your own work.

Tasha: That’s very true, and I think that was when I started taking my writing seriously as a business, instead of –

Sarah: Yeah.

Tasha: – just oh, writing is the business, and then publish- – writing is my hobby or what I enjoy doing, and then the publishing part is a business. The whole thing is a business. And I think we’re all –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – getting away from the idea that we’re not entrepreneurs, but I think a lot of authors just don’t feel like they are small business, basically.

Sarah: And they are!

Tasha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: We absolutely are!

Tasha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: With your writing, may I ask what you’re, what you’re working on right now?

Tasha: Okay, so I talked about that 20K in five days thing.

Sarah: Yeah!

Tasha: The last time I published was in May, and that was the Truth duet with the heavy themes involved, and I was just like, I just want to write something where it doesn’t hurt. [Laughs] You know?

Sarah: [Laughs] Yeah.

Tasha: I just want to write something that doesn’t hurt or doesn’t feel, like, so emotionally draining for me to write. So I, I wanted to do the challenge, and they idea was to write a novella, which I’ve, I, I can’t write short; I don’t know why I keep thinking this.

[Laughter]

Tasha: The idea was to write a complete novella in five days, and I was going to do that, and I, you know, just picked some characters out of the sky, I based it in Greenville, and I started writing. So that’s the book that I’m developing now. It’s called A Taste of Her Own Medicine. She’s an herbalist? [Laughs] I don’t know why – and she is also learning how to be an entrepreneur. Like, she’s going through a divorce and she has to support herself and her two kids, who are in, who are high school age, so this will be my first really mature –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – character. Which –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – I mean, she’s as old as I am, so I don’t know how mature that is, but you know, that’s neither here nor there. [Laughs] It was like, physically mature. Mentally? Huh. But –

Sarah: It’s relative.

Tasha: It’s relative! But she, she’s taking, like, this six-week course on entrepreneurship, and the guy who’s running it is, you know, younger and hot, and his name is Atlas. Like, why? I don’t know, but he’s got broad shoulders, and, and one, one of the, my favorite things that I wrote in here, ‘cause this is how I describe my taste in men? It was like, I like them to look like they can plow my north field without a horse.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: Like, just, could he just put the yoke on and then pull that plow behind him? That’s, that’s, that’s my man; bring him over here. [Indistinct] That’s what this young man looks like, so she’s trying to navigate, you know, getting – they’ve been separated for a while, but now the divorce is getting close to final, and she’s navigating that and learning how to be an entrepreneur, and then having pants feelings about this instructor who is young and hot and can plow her north field without a horse.

Sarah: I love that so much, and I think Atlas is a terrific hero name.

Tasha: Right?! It was like –

Sarah: It does a lot, it does a lot very quickly.

Tasha: He jokes about it. He’s just like, you know, my shoulders aren’t, my shoulders are broad. I ain’t named Atlas for nothing. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yep!

Tasha: You know? I did a bulk of that in the 20K in five days, and then I decided to try to do it again in, at the beginning of October, which I did, and –

Sarah: Way to go!

Tasha: Started a second book who, with the heroine’s sister, so now it’s a family saga. Welcome to that.

[Laughter]

Tasha: And I told myself, I was like, well, I could do it again in November, or I could just slow down and polish these books up and get them ready to go, so that’s what I’m planning to do just until the end of the year. And continue editing, of course, ‘cause that’s, that feeds me.

Sarah: 20K for five days is really, really cool.

Tasha: Mm! And I don’t know what I was thinking. I was like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: Well, so, okay, remember I told you how I have these, I have other friends that I meet with, and we do, like, these little Saturday mastermind things, so –

Sarah: Yeah!

Tasha: – I’m out with my friends. One of them is a, a photographer, and the other is like a spiritual entrepreneur. She does yoga; she sells, like, affirmation cards; like, that’s her thing.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: So we’re just all there meeting and chitty-chatting, and they were asking me about writing, and I was like, I’m going to be one hundred percent honest: I’ve started a whole lot of shit since May, but I’m not, I haven’t, you know, settled down into one idea, and then I was like, I was kicking around this idea of doing a challenge, and my friend looked at me. She was like, so now you said it out loud.

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: So Monday – [laughs] – when I wake up on Monday I want to go to your timeline and see that you started this challenge. I was like, ah, shit.

[Laughter]

Tasha: So then Monday comes, and I’m like, I’m going to dump this in the timeline super early, hoping that no one gets this! Like, it just passes by; I’m not going to tweet it again. No one’s going to notice it, so if I have no interest and no one’s going to do it with me, I’ll do it by myself. I did that, and then I went and made some coffee came back and was like six people like, I want to do this with you! I’m like, shit! Now I’ve got to do it.

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: But one of the things I did learn about myself is like – and this is something that a lot of people say to me – it’s just like, you are the best cheerleader. It’s like, even if you have, don’t know what the hell I’m doing, if I post something on Instagram, I can guarantee you, you going to be in the comments like, yeah, girl! You do that, sis! That’s right ! That’s what I’m talking about! Make that money! Like –

[Laughter]

Tasha: Because I always feel like, like one of the things I worry, because I felt this, is, like, not having the support that I need in that way, so I don’t ever want anybody –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: – I know to feel like they don’t have that support, so – and it doesn’t cost me anything. It takes, like, two seconds just to leave a comment and be like, girl, keep doing what you’re doing. And what I learned in this, doing this challenge is like, yeah, they’re right; I’m a good cheerleader. I can do this. Like, I liked that whole camaraderie thing, and it does me better than, say, like, writing fifty K in a month? Yeah, that’s great. I love NaNoWriMo. I love the energy around it. However, I’m ADD. I can’t maintain that energy for thirty days. Like, I’m good for ten. Maybe.

Sarah: But five! Five is five days!

Tasha: Five is great! It’s either five at the beginning of the month or five at the end. Like, I never – like, and it’s not even, I was writing four thousand words a day during 20K in five days, and I managed to do that, but I can’t write, like, fifteen hundred words a day during NaNoWriMo? Like, I just can’t do it. So maintaining that level of energy for thirty days, it doesn’t work for me, but the 20K in five days worked.

Sarah: That is really inspiring.

Tasha: Thank you! Thank you!

Sarah: So I always ask this question: what books are you reading that you want to tell lots of people about?

Tasha: Okay, so this is, these are books that everybody else read already. So I’m going to put that out there. And y’all told me these books were good.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: And I, I mean, I got these reference from people that, you know, I’ve gotten other book recs from.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Tasha: But I just recently read the, The Kiss Quotient and The Bride Test, and when I say to you, I don’t ever want to read another book? Like, I could, I could be listening –

Sarah: I know that feeling.

Tasha: – I could listen to these books over and over again, I could read these books over and over again, and get the, that swoony, delicious feeling. It was like, ugh, oh my God! Why am I even writing, because this woman just did it all! Who, wh- – Jesus! They were so good! I couldn’t stop; I, I kept messaging my friends, Helen, Helen Hoang did that. She did that. I love those two books.

And anything by Talia Hibbert. I mean she, she just, you know, she’s got her hand on my wallet like Fenty, you know.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Tasha: Robin and Talia, they’ll get my money regardless. It’s like, oh, I have a new book out – one-click!

Sarah: Yep.

Tasha: Thank you! Kiss Quotient.

Sarah: I know, I love that feeling when a book is just so good it just ruins you for a while. Like, you have book hangover.

Tasha: I’m right! I’m right! She done ruint me.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Is there anything else you want to mention or make sure you talk about?

Tasha: If anybody else wants to do 20K in five days, I’m doing it again in January? The second week of January, so you can go to my website and get the details on that and join the email list, but other than that? No.

Sarah: Excellent! Well, I will definitely link to that and to your mailing list and to your, to your site and all of your writing in the show notes. But thank you so much for doing this interview. I’ve had the best time.

Tasha: [Laughs] Thank you! Me too!

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. I will have links to where you can find Tasha, where you can find her podcast Lady Books, where you can find her on Twitter, and where you can find her #20kin5days program in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com.

And if you would like to get in touch with me, you can email me at [email protected], or you can leave a message at 1-201-371-3272. Either way, I love hearing from you however you choose to get in touch.

Thank you again to our Patreon community. The Patreon community keeps the show going every week, and if you would like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar a month, and every pledge makes a deeply appreciated difference.

Coming up on Smart Bitches this week, we have a new post from Adam and Eve showing some products you order before Valentine’s Day for yourself or someone else, for all of the people you know, including yourself, and there’s going to be a fifty percent off coupon included, so definitely look for that. We will have reviews of new books; Hide Your Wallet, Part 2; and – get ready; it’s time – The Bachelor is back, and with it, Elyse’s recaps, so tune on Wednesday mornings for those, because, you know, you need more sarcasm and ridiculousness, right? Of course you do! Plus, we will have Books on Sale, Help a Bitch Out, and a podcast episode every week, because that’s what we do here. Thank you for hanging out with us.

And now, as promised, a terrible, terrible joke from Elyse:

What do you call a fake noodle?

Give up? What do you call a fake noodle?

An impasta!

[Laughs] Impasta! Okay, it’s terrible; I love it so much.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend, and we will see you back here next week.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[fine funky music]