Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, September 14, 2018

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 316 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me this week is Amanda! We’re going to talk about book nesting and about rereading series. Amanda and I took some time to catch up because Amanda has just moved into her new apartment and says she unpacked probably about a thousand books. I’m sure many of you can relate. Then we talk about Amanda’s current adventure: rereading a series that she’s not particularly enjoying but continuing to read. We discuss the ending of series that we’ve started and why we tapped out, and also why we sometimes keep reading despite our own preferences. We also ask important questions such as what are your stopping points for a series as a reader? What makes you stop reading or keep reading even though you’re, it’s not what you expected? Do you like being surrounded by your books even if there are thousands of them? And of course, how is reading a book series like eating candy corn? Plus we have a sneak preview of an upcoming episode that we are planning, and I hope you are excited about it when you hear it.

This podcast is brought to you by The Heiress He’s Been Waiting For by Kaitlin O’Riley. Christopher Townsend, one of London’s most eligible bachelors, is in need of a wife, a very rich wife, whose dowry can cover the crushing debt he inherited on his father’s death. Pretty American heiress Sara Fleming would suit perfectly. She’s vivacious, outgoing, and he quite likes her a lot. She seems to enjoy his company as well, but the problem is she thinks herself in love with some American gold digger she left behind in New York. Can Christopher show Sara that the awareness that runs between them could easily fan into the flames of an unforgettable passion? First in a new series, The Heiress He’s Been Waiting For by Kaitlin O’Riley is now available wherever books are sold and at kensingtonbooks.com.

Now, if you listen to the podcast you know that each podcast episode receives a transcript, and each transcript is handcrafted by garlicknitter. Thank you, garlicknitter! This week’s podcast transcript is brought to you by everyone who has supported the Patreon. If you have supported the show on Patreon with a monthly pledge of any amount, thank you very, very much. You are helping me ensure that each episode is transcribed, and you keep the show going each week. You’re also making sure that every episode is available to everyone, which is very important to me and to many readers and listeners as well, so thank you.

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The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. I will have information at the end of the episode as to who this is.

I will also have at the very end of the episode a preview of what’s coming up on the website this week and a really, really bad joke. I also think I have a bonus joke in the podcast entry, ‘cause I had found a joke that made me laugh, but I can’t say it, you have to read it, so I think I’ll use our spoiler tag and I’ll add an extra bonus joke. If you would like a bonus joke, you can head over to the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, and while you’re there, of course, you will find links to all of the books that we talk about – there are many – and also links to some of the things that we discuss, including a thread from a Twitter user named @thalestral who did a fancasting of a movie based on Dragon Age: Inquisition, and if you have ever played this game, this fancasting is exquisite. I also have links to the original Twitter thread that started this entire conversation, so if you are looking for more information after you’ve listened, smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, and in the show notes for this episode, episode number 316, I will put a bonus joke for you because you are all so great.

One last thing: I do have a content warning for this episode. At about 21 minutes, 5 seconds, Amanda will say, “And content warning…” It’s a very brief discussion of sexual violence against the characters in the series that she’s reading. One or two thirty-second skips should take care of it.

And now, on with the podcast.

[music]

Sarah: Good afternoon, friend.

Amanda: Good afternoon. We haven’t done this in a while!

Sarah: I know! We were, like, busy doing shit. Like, you had to, like, up and move.

Amanda: Yeah. Ugh. But –

Sarah: How’d your move go?

Amanda: Real great. I love my new spot. I was talking to my therapist yesterday about how every wall in my room has some kind of artwork on it and I’m, like, nesting, and it’s been great. Our place is super cute. There are books everywhere.

Sarah: I think you might need to take us on a photo tour at some point.

Amanda: I think I might, because my roommate works in publishing too, so our dining room has been turned into a reading room, and all of –

Sarah: Oh, that’s just terrible!

Amanda: We have, like, a little chaise chair that my cat loves, and the reading room has all of her bookshelves, and then the living room has all of my bookshelves. Yeah, we have probably, we’ve cataloged our books; we have about a thousand books between the two of us.

Sarah: Between the two of you.

Amanda: Yes!

Sarah: Well, it’s good that we’re talking about reading a series, ‘cause you probably have most of the series in your apartment, having moved it.

Amanda: It’s so beautiful, putting a series on a shelf and just seeing them all lined up. Like, I have a little, like, Nalini Singh section and a Christina Lauren section. It’s –

Sarah: All right, we definitely need pictures –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and I, and I have to say, like, this is definitely a way in which you and I are different, and, and I realize that I’m different from a lot of people. Like, I’ve seen people on Twitter or online getting really upset when the format of a book changes in the mid ser-, in mid-series –

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – so you go from, like, mass market to trade or mass market to trade to hardcover, and they’re not all going to match or they change the size, the size and the style of the cover, and people get really upset because they’re not going to match, and I, and I’ve never had that sort of rush of looking at a book series on the shelf. Of course, when I moved a little over two years ago – [laughs] – I got rid of most of my books that I didn’t need to keep, ‘cause, I mean, there comes a point where you’re like, wow, I’m paying a lot of money for these to be moved across state lines –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and I don’t read paper hardly ever at all, so, like, the books that I kept fit on, like, one side shelf inside my closet, and they’re mostly, like, an older book my grandmother gave me, and she since died, and, you know, books that I wrote. I kept those!

Amanda: Oh, I hope so!

Sarah: ‘Cause they have my name on them. Yeah, you know, got my name on ‘em. But, like, the whole thing, like you see the book on the series, or the series on the shelf? That’s, that’s never, that’s never really done it for me. So you have all of these series just, like, creating visual artwork.

Amanda: It’s interesting because my roommate and I compared our collections, and we are two very different readers, but we do have some sections that are, like, the exact same run of, like, three or four books, because they’re all alphabetized the same way.

[Laughter]

Amanda: But –

Sarah: Did you mix your collections?

Amanda: No, we didn’t.

Sarah: I was going to say.

Amanda: So, like, my shelf will have, like, the same four books in a row as one of her shelves, but I read a lot of romance, so I have, like, mass market and trades and, you know, I will shelve ARCs and hardcovers, and she is a YA reader, and she almost exclusively reads in hardcover, so all of her books –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: – are hardcover. Her favorite –

Sarah: And heavy.

Amanda: – yeah – her favorite author is Maggie Stiefvater, so she has one shelf dedicated to those books, and she’s been buying, like, foreign editions and all sorts of things, so there’s just one shelf dedicated to that author, but we’re very different readers, but it’s interesting to see, like, you know – [laughs] – I feel like I’m all over the place ‘cause I have, like, skinny books and tiny books and big books and, you know, books that aren’t technically finished, and hers are all, like, beautiful hardcovers!

Sarah: [Laughs] I’m fascinated by this, because I’ve, I read so very much exclusively digital that the appearance of the book, except when I’m trying to remember what the book is called – I remember the image of the cover art more than I remember, like, you know, the words, which I’m sure you’re familiar with, having worked –

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: – with me for this long – the, the idea of having all of these books, like, it kind of stresses me out, because for me words are visual clutter, and also that’s a lot of books. Like, they’d all be looking at me, like why aren’t you reading me? I’m just sitting here.

Amanda: I –

Sarah: Why did you buy another book? What’s wrong with you?

Amanda: I definitely understand that feeling of, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – wow. Well, my roommate convinced me to use LibraryThing, the app, and it’s really handy for cataloging your books? All you have to do is scan the barcode.

Sarah: Right, you can barcode them!

Amanda: Yes! And she suggested that after we went to the Strand in New York and I bought a book that I thought was the third in a series but turns out it was the second in a series that I had already owned. [Laughs] So she, like –

Sarah: Oh no!

Amanda: – if you catalog your books, you can just check when you’re away from your apartment. So physical books that I have shelved – this does not include my TBR pile stacking up in my room – is 466. That doesn’t include digital, and it doesn’t include the stack in my room. That is only books that I have physically placed on a shelf. How many of those I have read, I prefer not to say.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So what does having – this is going to sound like such a doofy question, but I have to ask – what is it that having the books does for you?

Amanda: It makes me feel happy. Like, I guess –

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: So our couch is in the middle of the living room, and essentially, I am surrounded on all fronts by my bookshelves, and it’s just, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy just to look at my shelves and look at –

Sarah: Aw!

Amanda: – all the books that I have enjoyed or I’ve purchased or the authors that I’ve supported and just kind of, like – not necessarily reminiscing, because some of them I haven’t read – but it just makes me feel nice that I’m surrounded by all of these lovely words and lovely authors and pretty books. I mean, I don’t, wouldn’t say, like, I shelve my books aesthetically, like I know some people organize by color or, you know, do something –

Sarah: Yeah, I’ve seen that on Pinterest. It gives me –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – alarm.

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t know how they find anything, but they do something fancy, but –

Sarah: [Laughs] I have so many Old School paperbacks, or I had so many, like, I would have to have, like, a fuchsia section and a teal section and a neon green section –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and this one has seagulls freaking the hell out on the cover; there’d be, like, fifty books in there.

Amanda: You’d have, like, a steamboat section.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Yes! This is the seagull section. Here is the unicorn section! Yeah, I – [laughs] – if I did that aesthetically with Old School paperbacks I used to own it would be hilarious!

[Laughter]

Amanda: But it just, it’s nice! I, it makes me feel good, like, I don’t know, surveying my spoils. Like, you know, I’m a dragon with its hoard.

Sarah: Yes, you’re a book dragon, and here is your hoard.

Amanda: And I don’t have to worry about, like, well, at our old apartment we had, like, a, like, I guess, mudroom where I would keep Linus’s litter box, and then there’d be a door to the basement, and Linus would do anything to get into that basement, so you’d have to take your laundry into the litter box room, close the door so you’re, you’re hotboxing in that litter box room –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – and then open the basement door and carry your laundry down.

Sarah: And meanwhile, Linus is like, just let me get one, I just want one, I know there’s many down there, whatever they are; I just want one. Just let me have one.

Amanda: And then –

Sarah: We have a herd of deer that live in our neighborhood, and my dog is, like, convinced that if I just drop his leash he can bag me a deer –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – so I, I understand Linus’s desire here.

Amanda: Well, this, oddly enough, this apartment, the mudroom where we keep Linus’s litter box already had a built-in cat door, so –

Sarah: Win!

Amanda: – we could, like, keep the door closed if the smell was particularly bad, ‘cause he’s a big cat and big cats equal big poops.

Sarah: Oh, don’t I know that.

Amanda: [Laughs] And it’s so funny watching him use that door. He, like, jumps through it like a flaming ring.

Sarah: [Laughs] Brra-da!

Amanda: He’s very, he’s very chubby, and I don’t think, like, he tries to do it so no hair, like, touches any edge of that door.

Sarah: Yeah, good luck, dude.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: So you live in a new apartment with awesome washer/dryer and are completely surrounded by all the books that you like –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – and love, love enough to not only keep but shelve and move from place to place.

Amanda: Yeah! Our books were the first things we packed up, and all of the boxes took up our entire living room.

Sarah: Whoa!

Amanda: So that was the first thing out and the first thing in, and we just –

Sarah: Priorities, I get it.

Amanda: – in our reading room until we were left to unpack. My roommate is the smart one in that she just, like, took them off the shelf and just stuck them in a box, so they were kind of already alphabetized, but when you have books of different sizes like I do, it’s like, oh, I can wedge a few paperbacks in here and –

Sarah: Oh yeah! Absolutely.

Amanda: So my books were all over the place, ‘cause I was just like, how many things can I fit in this suitcase in this box? Just Tetris-ing what I can.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So, yeah, it took me longer to put my books up.

Sarah: And it’s hard to let go of books. Like, I, I really struggled to let go of some really old paperbacks that I had when we moved. I mean, I, I wasn’t going to read them, and it wasn’t worth paying somebody to move them across state lines, multiple state lines. The more state lines you cross, the more expensive it is.

[Laughter]

Sarah: But, like, there, there wasn’t really a reason for me to keep them other than I had them, so I donated a lot of them, but when I did finally unpack the books I kept, it was like, oh, friends!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Yay!

Amanda: It’s really nice, ‘cause then you’re like, I remember when I read this one! Or you have, like, a memory of a favorite scene or a part in the book that you really liked. Like when I unpacked The Kiss Quotient, I was like, man, maybe I should just read this again – [laughs] – for the hundredth time.

Sarah: Yeah, I don’t need to unpack. I don’t need to shelve. I could just sit and read this.

Amanda: But I would also go through that, once I packed up all my books, I went through that horrible phase where, like, when you’re hungry –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – nothing that you have is good enough. You want, like, what you can’t have. That’s like, man, I would really love to finally read this book, but it’s packed up somewhere, and you just –

Sarah: And I don’t know where.

Amanda: Yeah, it was terrible.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So you tweeted recently that you are rereading a series that you are, you are persevering through it even though the books are pretty terrible.

Amanda: It’s garbage. Like – [laughs]

Sarah: Okay, so you are deliberately rereading a series that you are not really enjoying at this point. What series are you rereading, and why are you doing this? I mean, I understand rereading a series, believe me. When, when my brain is tired, I do not want to do the cognitive work of a whole new world, but I love visiting another world. Like, I want – [sighs] – so you know how you have, like, Welcome to Night Vale?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: I want the daily radio recap of what happens in Anne Bishop’s Others series without, like, blood and drama and some Big Bad and something, like, you know, who, who, what, what did people get in the mail today? What books did people read? Like, I want the Gilmore Girls version of the Others on a daily basis, just so I can hang out in the post office.

Amanda: Can you imagine a time management game where you just deliver mail with those magic ponies? I would play –

Sarah: Oh shit, that’d be so rad!

Amanda: – the shit out of that!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Oh my God, I would play that so much. And then, and then, if you have the VHS tapes belonging to the vampire, you need to budget your time very carefully.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: And it’s like a, like a puzzle to get to the door so that you don’t, you know, die.

Amanda: That would be amazing!

Sarah: Oh my God, I would play that so very much. But anyway, we have digressed into the –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – video games that we want to play based on series that we want to hang out in. What series are you rereading, and why?

Amanda: Ugh.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: There’s, like, I can’t even find a –

Sarah: What was that noise? Ugh! I can’t wait to talk about this book I’m reading. Ugh! [Laughs]

Amanda: – way to, like, sugarcoat – like, I can’t even find, like, a bright spot to try to make these better.

Sarah: And yet you’re still in, you’re still in them.

Amanda: As soon as I finished the third one, I immediately put the fourth one on hold, and I picked it up from the library yesterday!

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s amazing!

Amanda: So it is the League series by Sherrilyn Kenyon.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s some, that’s some, that is some is vintage –

Amanda: I called it space misogyny, which is pretty much what it is.

Sarah: [Laughs] Yes, it is. Space misogyny, oh my God.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh no, I think Warrior’s Woman might be – I think it’s Warrior’s Woman – there’s a Lindsey that might give it a run for its money. The Ly-San-Ters might give that book a, a, a run for that title, but anyway, space misogyny.

Amanda: I started, my mom had a huge collection of Sherrilyn Kenyon in an unlabeled box in our shed, and I went digging through there, and I started reading, like, her, was it Dark-Hunter series? And I remember reading the first book, and so the League series is a sci-fi romance set around a group called the League which are kind of like assassins, space assassins, and the first book, Born of Night, I remember reading in, like, on a long car trip with my family, and this was, you know, I think high school? Right out of high school, so –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – the late 2000s, 2008, 2009, and I immediately read the second one, Born of Fire, and then I just kind of stopped, so I only read the first two, but I’ve been really jonesing for some sci-fi romance, and I feel like I’ve exhausted all of the obvious contenders, so I’m like, hey, those books are still coming out. Why don’t I just go back and jump on in? And so I did, with the third book, Born of Ice.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: [Sighs] And looking at my Goodreads, ‘cause I had rated these when I read them, the first book got a two out of five stars.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: The second book got a three out of five, and the third book got a two out of five. [Laughs]

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: It’s not even like I had really fond memories of the first one that I loved and it was all downhill from there? It was just downhill from the first book and kind of stayed at that pace. But just, I feel so bad for the women in this series. Like, she has some strong women, but the heroine in Born of Ice was like, her mom and sister – content warning, by the way, for this – her mom and sister are, like, slaves for the government. In order to get them out, the heroine has to find a way onto the hero’s ship and try to, like, find something illegal that he’s doing to report back to the government, and her father was a shitty person and essentially, like, let his crew members on his spaceship essentially have sex with her whenever they wanted, and –

Sarah: Dude!

Amanda: – there was some talk of, like, people being, being raped as punishment for things and –

Sarah: What, if a –

Amanda: – if a man complains about anything he’s called a woman, because the only people who complain are ladies and –

Sarah: Wow, this sounds incredible. Why are you reading this?

Amanda: I don’t know!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: No. Because I, I knew it wasn’t going to get better. Like, I’m not a, I’m not a dummy. Like – [laughs] – I read Sherrilyn Kenyon stuff before; she writes very alpha males, and I don’t know if it’s ‘cause I was, like, so desperate for sci-fi romance that I was like, you know what? This is what I’ve got right now, and I just have to –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – make the best of it. And because these books are still coming out – I think the last one came out – well, there’s one coming out this year – I’m very curious and hope-, maybe I’m hopeful is the right word? How the treatment of these characters may change as we, as I progress through the series, so I’m kind of –

Sarah: So you’re optimistic.

Amanda: I wouldn’t say – yes, maybe optimistic. Do I think – I mean, Sherrilyn Kenyon’s been writing for a very long time and has many books under her belt, and she knows what works for her fans. Not that there’s anything wrong with it; if you enjoy these books, great. I mean, I finish them, and I’m continuing with the series, so on some point or on some level I’m getting something out of them, but I’m just hoping that the treatment of women gets better –

Sarah: Ooh.

Amanda: – later on in the books, as the –

Sarah: Uhhh –

Amanda: – as the political climate has changed over the last decade. That’s the hope and the dream, but there are some sci-fi romances that I’m very excited about coming out early next year. I can name two. One is Nightchaser by Tessa – no, not Tessa, ugh – one is Nightchaser by Amanda Bouchet –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – who wrote the Kingmaker series. And the reason why I get confused is the heroine is named, like, Tess Bailey, which is the author of a romance, or she’s a romance author, so I confuse it a little bit. And then Polaris Rising, which is also coming out in February.

But I don’t know; I was like, I figured because a lot of these books are out – I think there are ten books out in the League series right now, I’m like, I’ll just binge on all these until these other ones come out, but man, I don’t –

Sarah: Is there something familiar about them that’s working for you? Are you at this point just sort of like, all right, can it get worse? Let’s find out.

Amanda: It reminds me a lot of my early romance reading, ‘cause I read Sherrilyn Kenyon a lot. I read some of the Carpathian series by Christine Feehan; I read a bunch of Laurell K. Hamilton, both the Anita Blake and Merry Gentry series.

Sarah: Which did you like better? I –

Amanda: Merry Gentry.

Sarah: Yeah, Merry Gentry was like, I think you said they get right to it. Like, there’s fucking on page three. [Laughs]

Amanda: Well, yeah. You know what you’re getting into with Merry Gentry, and it –

Sarah: Oh yeah. Oh yes, you do! You’re getting into a lot, and a lot gets into Merry too!

[Laughter]

Amanda: You know what you’re getting into, like, right out of the gate, and I always liked fairies in paranormal better than vampires. With the Anita Blake series, it started off as kind of like urban fantasy, like supernatural crimes, and then went off. The. Rails.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: So – [laughs] – I preferred Merry Gentry, just because it was bonkers and it had embraced its bonkers-ness. Like, there wasn’t any sort of confusion where you were at and what you were reading.

Sarah: Oh yeah. It’s, you know, actually, thinking about it – so I have been, as I said in our Twitter conversation, you asked originally on Twitter, are there any series out there that you just keep reading, even though the books are pretty terrible?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And there were a lot of responses. My response was, of course, Sweet Valley High, which I did bail on long before the earthquake and the refrigerator – somebody literally gets fridged; it’s amazing – but, like, I bailed on that series, even though I knew exactly what I was getting, and I was reading it because I knew exactly what I was going to get –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – when I read them. Like, I, and, and that was really – now that I’m listening to Double Love, which is this, these two Irish, brilliant ladies reading and recapping and snarking the fuck out of each one, I cannot –

Amanda: I’m going to have to read through it, even though my –

Sarah: – I can’t stop.

Amanda: – experience with Sweet Valley High was the show that was on, like, the WB a long time ago?

Sarah: Oh dude, no, no! This is, like, this is, this is where I first encountered the idea of, like, soap opera?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, I knew, you knew going in that things were not going to make sense and that the reality of Sweet Valley is a very strange and – now that I look at it through my, you know, my much older and hopefully better-informed perspective – I don’t like the word problematic because it’s bland. What is the problem? Is it racism or does something smell bad? Like, problematic is a very bland word, but these are like, these are like a fifteen-layer cake of problematic. They are just incredible, and these two women – [laughs] – Anna and Karyn, they snark the shit out of them; it is hilarious. Plus, they’re Irish, so they’re shit, they’re like, what the hell is a split-level ranch? What does that mean? And they tried onion dip because they’d never had onion dip, and they’re like, oh my God, this is delicious! It’s basically a bag of salt!

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: [Laughs] Plus, you know, they use Irish slang; like, they call people wagons?

Amanda: What is that?

Sarah: Which in Ireland, apparent-, apparently it’s like calling someone a bitch.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: I don’t know if you’re familiar with that word!

Amanda: Like a red wagon?

Sarah: Like, ah, she’s –

Amanda: Like a –

Sarah: I don’t know, but apparently she’s a wagon, and I’m like, I love it when they call someone a wagon. So anyway, now that I’m in tears loving this, like, I can’t stop listening to it, I love it so much, and I’m about to run out of episodes. Like, I’m going to be caught up. This is, this is the series that I could keep up with, the series of podcasts about a series of books that I stopped reading. That’s a series I keep up with. But I read Sweet Valley High because I knew exactly what I was going to get, and even though they were a lot of my allowance at the time, I was going to read those things in, like, twenty-five minutes; they were not big books. But you stick with it because it is, it is a familiar experience, almost like junk food that you don’t entirely enjoy, but like, look, when I’m on, when I’m in the car I want Combos. I don’t eat Combos any other time; little pretzels filled with, with gooey sodium paste, that’s what I want to eat when I’m in the car. I don’t understand it. Maybe reading a series like this is sort of like nostalgia and expectation; like, you know what you’re going to get.

Amanda: I would say, well, in this case I didn’t remember what I was going to get –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – it had been so long, and I had looked. I was like, oh well, two and three stars; maybe this one’s better, and it was not. [Laughs]

Sarah: Wow.

Amanda: Yeah, I mean, I was, I enjoyed seeing the responses to my tweet, and there are a few that stuck out because I was like, yeah, I can totally see that. One was the Stephanie Plum series, and someone in my book group feels the exact same way; we’ve talked about it. She’s like, I don’t know why I keep reading them. I know there’s never going to be any resolution that I want, but when it’s release day I’m picking it up.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And then someone also mentioned the Black Dagger Brotherhood, which I can totally see.

Sarah: Oh, absolutely!

Amanda: I tapped out of that series around book four or five, but I know there are people who just devour that series and also recognize that they’re not the greatest. I definitely can see those series some people were mentioning like Stephanie Laurens, and I’m sure we can link, like, the Twitter thread if people want to see it. But I was just kind of enjoying seeing the series that people stick with despite not actually enjoying them in terms of, like, this is a great book! Or this is a great romance novel!

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: And I also, I wonder if people stick with a series out of obligation. Like, I started it, and I’m going to see this through to the end, whenever the end should happen.

Sarah: Oh yeah, completists are a thing. Adam is one, and my older son is one, and they are going to complete it. And I’m like, I could stop in the middle and be fine. They’re like, no, you must complete it. It’s not done; you will read the next one; you will read until it’s over. I think A Song of Ice and Fire is actually going to kill my husband, because he can’t complete it, ‘cause it’s not done, and I think the lack of completion might do damage to his heart? Like, the actual structural power of his heart, ‘cause it’s really going to stress him out when he realizes he might not be able to finish.

I went back and read the first Carpathian; you mentioned the Carpathians? I went back and read the first one, and it is so, so different when you see the consent in a different way, because there is not a lot of consent? Like, he just does things and then tells her later, like, listen I made you a Carpathian, and you’re going to feel like you’re dying when I’m sleeping. Sorry!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: My bad. Let me stick you with this really old priest. He’ll, he’ll play cards with you.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, there’s so little in the way of informed consent in that book on so many levels, and yet it worked. It totally worked. I couldn’t go, go, go past number, number one. Like, there are a lot of people who will stick with a series – one of the questions I wrote down for you was, why do you think readers stick with a series even though our love for them starts to wane, and when do you break up with a series? My answer: me? Book two.

Amanda: I think it depends! So Kresley Cole’s Immortals After Dark series has been probably one of the very few series that I will keep up with, and we’re on, like, book –

Sarah: Oh, you are ride or die for that series!

Amanda: Yeah! We’re on, like, book fifteen or something now, but there was a time where it was kind of coming to an end, like, the first, you know, the big story arc, and then she, I’m, like, subscribed to her newsletter, and she sent out a newsletter about, her choices were to either start wrapping up the series and kind of pairing off the, you know, the huge main people left or –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – kind of take it in a different direction where the “supposed villains” of the book will also get their own pairs, and I was on the fence about it. I was like, are we going to really drag this out? Like, villains are villains, and, like, people aren’t really supposed to root for them and see them be happy. [Laughs] You know what I mean? So I was very nervous, but I’ve been enjoying those a lot, and the last one she came out with is my favorite of the entire series now. Wicked Abyss, I think, is the latest one that came out, and it’s now my number one.

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: I’m glad I stuck with it, but there are definitely series where I was like, you know, I just – like Black Dagger Brotherhood, I was, like, five books in and I’m like, this is just like the same thing, and I’m not into, like, the leather pants and the sunglasses. It was just like the same repackaged characteristics in each book, and I was like, I got the sense that whatever books were coming out afterwards, after I had stopped, I lacked the excitement to find out what happens, and I feel like once –

Sarah: Huh!

Amanda: – you kind of, like, read a book description and you’re like, meh, all right, whatever, then that’s when I check out. Like, even though the League series has not been the greatest so far, when I read the description of the next one, I still get the, oh, that could be really interesting. [Laughs] And then I get sucked back in, and I’m like, why am I reading this? So when my excitement for the next book taps out, that’s when I usually quit. That’s my stopping point.

Sarah: That’s really interesting. For me, I have to have a really serious, compelling reason to keep going, but I also have to know that the writer knows where they’re going, and they know what the end is.

Amanda: Ooh, that’s a good point.

Sarah: Like, right, like, I need to know that, that they know where they’re going. Like, I can’t read Nalini Singh, not because I don’t trust her to know where she’s going. I trust her implicitly to know where she’s going; I’m sure she knows exactly where she’s going, but there’s too much violence in her books for me. But I know that I’m still curious what happens in the books, so I totally go read summaries and be like, ooh, what happened? Who got together? What’s going on? Because I can’t read them without getting nightmares – my brain is so weird –

Amanda: I feel like this is very indicative of our TV conversation –

Sarah: Oh, it’s very similar.

Amanda: – where we –

Sarah: There’s no question.

Amanda: – where there’s, like, a certain level of trust that we have to give to, like, the show creator or writer to know what they’re doing and know where they’re going in terms of wrapping up a storyline.

Sarah: Yep. Oh yeah. And with, like, for example, the Call of Crows, that kind of ended, that trilogy kind of ended on a bit of a cliffhanger. Like, there’s a big battle about to start at the end of the third book. I would be totally curious to see what happens, but I’m also really happy that I got to read one, two, and three and saw the whole main Big Bad come to a resolution. You know what I mean?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So what are the problems that you’re noticing in space misogyny that you’re, you’re going to keep going? What is it that this series does that, that other series don’t? ‘Cause I mean, there’s more sci-fi romance now than there was then.

Amanda: Yes. I also think it’s interesting that when I read this previously when I was a, a young teen, obviously I didn’t rate, rate the books favorably or that great, but I don’t remember having such a big problem with misogyny and the sexism, and I think it’s because, like, not necessarily those things weren’t part of my world, because I feel like they’re always a part of a woman’s world, but I don’t think at that time I had the language, the learned language to, like, really process what I was reading, and you know, given the decade or so since then, I’ve learned a lot of things, I’ve experienced a lot of things, so now it’s easier for me to identify those things in a book and be like, that’s not okay! But why do I keep going? I don’t know! I love a big ensemble cast.

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: I am a sucker for a, like, the Christopher Guest movies? Like Best in Show.

Sarah: [Laughs] Those are so, those are, like, tailor-made for you!

Amanda: I love them to pieces, ‘cause it’s essentially, like, the same cast in a gazillion different movies. But I love a big ensemble cast, and when you, like – there’s always that one character when you have a big ensemble cast that everyone is just dying for that person’s book. Everyone wants them to, like, get paired off, and of course authors know what they’re doing, so they’re going to tease that book for a while. [Laughs] And so there’s a character in the League series, his name’s Nero; he doesn’t have his book yet. It’s coming out –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – next year, I believe. I think it’s coming out in 2019 or 2020, so we’re getting there. And he’s kind of like super powerful; not, like, super broody; but, like, he’s usually, like, the guy you call when things have gone really tits up, and –

[Laughter]

Sarah: So basically, he’s Amanda catnip.

Amanda: [Laughs] Yes! And so I really want to see him in future books, and I want him to get his own book. So right now, he is my main motivation.

Sarah: So some of the other series that people mentioned, I was reading the thread – and I will, of course, link to the thread in the show notes – people were bringing up series, and I was like, yeah, yeah –

Amanda: Yep. [Laughs]

Sarah: – that one. So I brought up Sweet Valley High, and then the Black Dagger Brotherhood, Heather B. from Smut Matters brought that one up. Mary Carver brought up Stephanie Plum.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: Oh my gosh, like, she, the author, Janet Evanovich said, I think, at, at several interviews that she’s, Stephanie’s never going to choose.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: She’s just never going to choose –

Amanda: That bugs the –

Sarah: – she’s going to keep bouncing back and forth –

Amanda: – piss out of me.

Sarah: – and I was like, no. No. Nope. I fin-, I retconned my own ending, and that stor-, that, that series ended lovingly, and Lula got the fuck away from Stephanie as part of my imaginary ending of that series –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – ‘cause Lula deserves better.

Amanda: Yes, I would agree. Also, the movie was terrible. Never see the movie.

Sarah: It wasn’t even enjoyably bad; it was just bad?

Amanda: I thought it was terrible. I mean, Katherine Heigl I’ve got mixed feelings about in general. I did not like the casting for, what are their names? Is one Ranger or something? I –

Sarah: Ranger and Joe.

Amanda: He’s got an Italian last name.

Sarah: Something. Whoever is going to be listening to this is now screaming –

Amanda: Sorry, sorry, guys. [Laughs]

Sarah: – the name – screaming the name! – and so in order to prevent anyone from having some sort of vocal damage – [laughs] – I will, I will – Joe Morelli.

Amanda: Yep, there we go.

Sarah: Oh my God, I just put into my search engine stephanie plum joe, so here are the first top three results: Stephanie Plum Joe Morelli; Stephanie Plum Joe Morelli fanfiction – clearly I’m not alone in needing an ending for these people –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – then, does Stephanie Plum marry Joe? [Laughs] Oh my God!

Amanda: Sorry, nope, never going to happen.

Sarah: Oh geeze.

Amanda: I just –

Sarah: I mean, we don’t know. I mean, they could be married and have, like, fourteen kids! I have, I checked out of that series, like, at book –

Amanda: I didn’t like any of the casting –

Sarah: Word!

Amanda: – at all. At all!

Sarah: Of the movie?

Amanda: Yeah. Someone had suggested when they were originally casting that, like, Sandra Bullock would have been a really good Stephanie Plum, and I would agree, but –

Sarah: Hmm. I can see that.

Amanda: Yeah, I just didn’t like the movie, didn’t like the casting, and that’s probably a good reason why another one wasn’t made.

Sarah: Speaking of casting, complete change of subject, I need to find a link to this, but you retweeted a link to fancasting of a Dragon Age: Inquisition movie –

Amanda: Isn’t it amazing?

Sarah: – and I nearly passed out, oh my God, I nearly passed out. It was exquisite!

Amanda: It is fucking perfect!

Sarah: Oh my God! It was – yeah. Whoa. Damn.

Amanda: And someone’s like, Varric as, Tom Hardy as Varric? I’m like, yes! Thank you! Yes, thank you!

Sarah: Oh yeah. Oh yeah! Oh yeah yeah yeah. [Laughs] That would be incredible!

Amanda: I – they’re just perfect! Like, I –

Sarah: It was wonderful.

Amanda: There was not –

Sarah: People who are good at fancasting are amazing to me, because I –

Amanda: There was not one choice where I was like, nah, I don’t think so.

Sarah: Nope, nope, every single one was exquisite.

Amanda: They’re all really good. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, I have to find that. I, I have to, I will include a link to that because it’s pretty amazing. One of the other series that somebody brought up was the, What the Foucault brought up the Sookie Stackhouse series.

Amanda: Oh my God. Ugh.

Sarah: That series, that was a series that caused a lot of anger.

Amanda: I read the, some of the books, and I stopped, because they kept getting too convoluted for me, and –

Sarah: Right.

Amanda: – and it was funny, it’s funny that you mention that because probably two weeks ago I was like, what happened –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – to the end of that series?

Sarah: How did this end?

Amanda: So I –

Sarah: How did this end?

Amanda: – I went on, like, a Wikipedia dive and read the synopses –

Sarah: Nice!

Amanda: – for the books that I never got around to reading, and boy –

Sarah: That is the best way –

Amanda: – boy, am I glad –

Sarah: – to catch up with a series, by the way.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: It is the best way.

Amanda: I am so glad I never finished that series, because I would have made a bonfire in my front yard after –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – after reading what happened in the last book.

Sarah: Oh no!

Amanda: I was just like, what is this ending? What is this? So –

Sarah: Ah dude.

Amanda: Yeah, no. That’s another one that I quit on.

Sarah: And it’s hard to know always, you know, it’s hard to know when to tap out, if you can. I mean, there are people who, like, they are not tapping out. Nope. Nope, nope, nope, nope. They’re going to stick, they’re going to stick with the whole thing. They’re not going to give it, give up. I do not have the completists instinct in, in – that is not a thing that I’m going to ever have to do.

Another series somebody brought up was the Twilight series –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – which was only four.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: They were large books, but there were only four of them. Also a series that I didn’t finish. People are just going to end up screaming at me during this episode. I can’t believe you didn’t finish it! I hardly finish any series.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: If it’s a trilogy, I can do it. If it’s a trilogy, all right, I can, I can handle that. But a series that is just going to keep on going? Yeah. No, I can’t do it.

Amanda: One thing that kept me reading in Born of Ice was – and I mentioned this on Twitter – there was something that was mentioned in the book, and I’m like, ooh, this is going to come back, and it’s going to be great! The heroine has a, like, a tracker installed in her body, but it was misplaced, and they had put it into her bone instead of her muscle, and –

Sarah: What?

Amanda: Yeah, so they, like, fucked up –

Sarah: Eh. Ugh.

Amanda: – and the hero is a doctor, so I was like, shit, he’s going to find out there’s a tracker, he’s going to go take it out and realize it’s in the bone, and there’s going to be this really tense moment. No. She gets –

Sarah: Oh no.

Amanda: – put to sleep, and it all goes swimmingly.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: And she wakes up just fine; everything’s healed; not a single fucking problem. And that was, like –

Sarah: Oh no!

Amanda: – the scene I was waiting for. I’m like, I have to get to the point where he finds out that the tracker could endanger her life by being in its, in her bone, and –

Sarah: No!

Amanda: – it was like, really? I waited for this for nothing?

Sarah: Oh man. Oh man, no!

Amanda: And now it’s like, I’m finishing this out of spite.

Sarah: [Laughs] Once you get to the spite read it’s, it, yeah, that’s bad.

Amanda: Yeah, and then after the end I was like, I wonder if my library has the next one! It’s like – [laughs] –

Sarah: Of course! You are a cranky completist, aren’t you? You’re a very surly, ornery, cranky completist.

Amanda: It reminds me of the Lewis Black standup bit about candy corn? In that – so I love candy corn, but I know it’s a very polarizing candy.

Sarah: It is! Candy corn, cilantro –

Amanda: I love cilantro, I love candy corn, love black liquorice.

Sarah: I, I can’t go with you there. Anise is not my thing.

Amanda: [Laughs] But he talks about candy corn, you know, around Halloween, everyone, you know, he gets this feeling of, like, oh, candy corn! It’s shaped like a little corn, and it’s candy, and look how colorful it is! And he eats it, and he’s like, what the fuck is this?!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: It is disgusting; it’s all waxy. And then Halloween comes around again and he’s like –

Together: Oh, it’s candy corn!

Amanda: Look at this cute little candy! And he eats it again, and he’s like, damn it! It got me again! And then –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – Halloween comes around again. Like, oh, candy corn! So –

Sarah: So this is how you are with series?

Amanda: It’s like you’re trapped in this, like, perpetual hate machine that, like, you don’t realize you’re on until –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – like, no!

Sarah: You are a hate machine completist.

Amanda: [Laughs] Like, no, you should really get back into this series again. You’ve read the other ones; why not read the next one? And then you’re halfway through, and it kicks in; you’re like, oh, this is the reason.

Sarah: Oh, yeah, candy corn! So this is specifically a candy corn series.

Amanda: Yeah, but I do love candy corn, so.

[Laughter]

Amanda: I like to eat it in little segments.

Sarah: Oh, well, yeah, you have to; there’s a line. Duh. [Laughs] When you finish the series, are you just going to, like, hold off until the next one comes out, or is there something else that you’re going to read next?

Amanda: Probably just go on a long vacation to detox the series from my body. [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, that, that’ll just create another scenario where you’re like, oh, yeah! This book! I wonder what this is like!

Amanda: I don’t know what I would try after that. I think, not, I mean, I’m not saying, I’m, like, not trading one for the other, but I stopped reading the Psy-Changeling series a few books in, not because they were bad, but just because, like, I wanted to read something else. After, like, binging on a few paranormals I like to switch it up, and I just never came back to it, so I think I might jump back into that and see if I can make my way to, to the temporary end, wherever that may be. By the time I get around to it, we could be like three more books into the future. [Laughs]

Sarah: What, the Nalini Singh?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Well, she started a new sort of arc with the Trinity –

Amanda: I, but I –

Sarah: – with –

Amanda: – I will not start that arc until I read everything before it.

Sarah: Did you read Heart of Obsidian?

Amanda: No.

Sarah: Oh dude, it’s intense; it’s all your catnip.

Amanda: Yeah. So I’ve got to get there. I remember when it was coming out everyone was like, this is the book I’ve been waiting for!

Sarah: Yeah, it’s the, it’s, like, the most super-powered, the most dangerous, the most compelling, and the most completely crushed by his feels hero.

Amanda: Which is something that we will probably get into in our OTP podcast. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh yes, we are going to be recording a podcast with Elyse talking about our fandom OTPs. We’ve been prepping this for, like, a month and a half.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Like, I was, where was I yesterday? I was out somewhere because, you know, school has started, so I have to schlep people places. I was, I was waiting for music lessons, and I was walking through the parking lot at the grocery store thinking, oh yeah, those were two of my OTPs! I’ve got to add that to the list! Like, I have a separate list of all of my, of my couples for this – this is going to be a really messed up podcast. Oh my God! [Laughs]

Amanda: One of my walls – so I have, all my walls are themed, so I have, like, a wall of postcards and, like, postcard-size art. Another wall has all of, like, my video game, TV, and movie art. Another wall is going to be, like, my crafty gift art, so I have a, a painting that my friend made me. I have a cross stitch that Sarah gave me.

Sarah: Yay!

Amanda: My enamel pin collection’s going to go on that wall, and then –

Sarah: Oh, how did the pin collection display turn out? Did you get it done?

Amanda: I will, I will send you photos! I’m trying to –

Sarah: Yes, please! Do you, are you happy with it?

Amanda: Yes. I’m trying to group them by theme, and I have a couple outliers, so I might hold onto those until I have –

Sarah: Ooh!

Amanda: – something. And then the ones above my bed are, like, romance-themed, so I have, like, romance covers and clinch photos. [Laughs]

Sarah: Fabulous.

Amanda: But my boyfriend came over, and he’s a huge Star Wars fan, and this’ll be discussed more in the OTP podcast, but I have ReyLo fan art, so it’s Rey and Kylo Ren from the Star Wars series, and I know that’s a very –

Sarah: But it’s sort of, the art you have is sort of Labyrinth-esque, right?

Amanda: Yes, it’s so beautiful. But he comes over; he’s like, you know that’s not canon, right? I was like, I don’t –

Sarah: No, dude, I –

Amanda: – care! Get out of here!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Do not discuss the art, sir. You don’t understand.

Amanda: All of my pairings are nowhere near canon, so –

Sarah: Oh, this is going to be fun!

[Laughter]

Amanda: I feel like your and Elyse’s pairings are going to be somewhat normal.

Sarah: Oh, mine are going to be boring as fuck.

Amanda: Like, let me tell you about my –

Sarah: Mine are going to be so boring!

Amanda: – trash romances. [Laughs]

Sarah: No, I want to hear all about them. I want to hear all about ‘em, because the more I know about your, your, your taste in couples, the better I can make sure I have good recommendations, should I encounter them.

Amanda: It’ll all, it all makes a lot of sense when we talk about it.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Well, I mean, well, after our TV episode and I talked about how Beauty and the Beast from the ‘80s shaped so much of my romance reading, I have had people talk about that on Twitter and in email to me like, oh my God, me too, and I had no idea. Like, these things are formative! They have a lot of influence.

Amanda: Someone tweeted me saying they, like, dressed up as the Beast for, like, Halloween one year?

Sarah: Yes! That’s amazing! I’m so excited! [Laughs] So I had another question, and I’m trying to remember what it was. Now that you have this fabulous apartment with your nest of books and your hoard, are you going to do another reading vacation weekend this winter?

Amanda: Yes! So it’s kind of the works, a reading retreat. So my friends and I, we get together every month – we all met in grad school – we get together every month. We all work in some form of publishing, and we have dinner. Last February – I think it was this February – we got an Airbnb in Maine right on the water and just holed up in a nice Airbnb and cooked and watched the Olympics and watched – what is that Julia Roberts movie?

Sarah: Which one?

Amanda: With John Cusack and the eating! We talked about this, Sarah.

Sarah: John Cusack and the eating.

Amanda: Catherine Zeta-Jones!

Sarah: Oh, that one! Yes, I know exactly which one it is, but I’m not going to remember the words; I’m just going to remember all the scenes, like when she falls off the wagon with butter.

Amanda: Holly-, Hollywood Sweethearts? Something –

Sarah: America’s Sweethearts.

Amanda: That’s what it is! [Laughs] Team work!

Sarah: Yeah, good job, Sarah’s Brain.

Amanda: So we cooked and we drank and we read, and it was great. It’s a lot of fun, and we just bring a bunch of books and lounge around and do nothing but read.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. I want to thank Amanda for hanging out with me, and I hope you enjoyed our conversation.

I would love to know, do you like being surrounded by your books? Do you have, like, a thousand books on your bookshelf? Do you nest in your den like a dragon, a book dragon? And also what makes you stop reading a series, or keep reading it, even though it’s not what you expected? Here are all the ways to get in touch with us, and you can pick your favorite one: you can comment on the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. You can tweet at me @SmartBitches, and Amanda is @_ImAnAdult. You can also email us at [email protected]. I love hearing from you. I love to respond, because you all have really interesting things to say, so if this episode made you want to talk back to the show, which happens a lot, get in touch with us! I super dig it when you do.

This podcast has been brought to you by The Heiress He’s Been Waiting For by Kaitlin O’Riley. Christopher Townsend, one of London’s most eligible bachelors, is in need of a wife, a very rich wife, whose dowry can cover the crushing debt he inherited on his father’s death. Pretty American heiress Sara Fleming would suit perfectly. She’s vivacious, outgoing, and he quite likes her a lot. She seems to enjoy his company as well, but the problem is she thinks herself in love with some American gold digger she left behind in New York. Can Christopher show Sara that the awareness that runs between them could easily fan into the flames of unforgettable passion? First in a new series, The Heiress He’s Been Waiting For by Kaitlin O’Riley is now available wherever books are sold and at kensingtonbooks.com.

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And now, enough biology; let’s talk about the music! Yay!

[clatter]

Ooh, and the dog is here! I wonder if you could hear that. Yep, yep, yep, you can hear that. My dog is now here demanding a treat, but I’m going to make him wait so that I can tell you about the music. I shouldn’t make him wait, should I? Okay, so. Always keep dog treats on your desk if you like having dogs sitting by your feet. This is a thing I have learned. Here you go, Bud! You want a cookie? There you go.

This podcast episode’s music is brought to you by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Sassy, on Twitter @SassyOutwater, and it’s also brought to you by Zeb, who is taking up residence under my feet so I can’t move. I will be podcasting for a while now. This music is from Peatbog Faeries, I bet you guessed, and this track is called “Fishing at Orbost.” You can find the Peatbog Faeries at their website. You can find this album and other albums on Amazon and on iTunes, so thank you very much if you had a look. I happen to love the Peatbog Faeries music for working; it’s very lively and fun to listen to.

And now the cat is here. My gosh, all the animals are going to show up in this episode. Wow, this is great. Okay, so, as I move things out of the way of the cat – oh my gosh – so he’ll jump on the desk and then stretch out and then flop over.

So let me tell you what’s coming up on the site this week. There’s a website that goes with the podcast; I’m betting that you knew that. This week on Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, we have cool things. First we have Hide Your Walled, Part Deux, also known as Word on the Street, where Amanda highlights book releases and book news that you might not want to miss, and then we all buy more books because that’s what happens. We also have a new entry of Romance Wanderlust by Carrie, plus a Squee from the Keeper Shelf from Tara Scott, and of course bunches of reviews. We have a bunch of reviews this week, including a book that I recommended to Elyse at 9 p.m. that kept her up reading until 5 a.m. – sorry, Elyse. All that, we have also Books on Sale, and as always each week we have Help a Bitch Out on Tuesdays.

I will have links to the Twitter conversations that we referenced in this episode, as well as all of the books and movies that we talk about. Amanda is the one who does all of the database inputting, so Amanda will be making this happen magically, so if you have a look at the podcast show notes you will find all the books and movies we mentioned.

Now it’s time for the bad joke. Are you ready for the bad joke? Okay. This week I have two bad jokes, ‘cause you guys are so great. I have one joke here, and then there’ll be another joke in the show notes for this episode, and if you’re wondering, wait, which episode is this? This is episode 316, so if you go to smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, in the show notes I will have an additional joke using the spoiler tag to reveal the punch line, but it’s a visual joke, so that’s why I can’t say it out loud. But here’s the joke for the podcast, which is equally terrible! You ready?

What happened to the wooden car with the wooden seat and the wooden keys and the wooden engine?

Give up? What happened to the wooden car with the wooden seat and the wooden keys and the wooden engine?

It wooden start.

[Laughs] This joke is from OhSoPoor. Yes, that is a poor joke; I love it a lot!

And on behalf of Amanda and Orville and Zeb and myself and everyone else who is now in my office, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend. We will see you back here next week.

[peaceful music]