274: We Say Thank You to Everyone Many, Many Times

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 274 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and this week we are saying thank you to everyone lots and lots of times. Happy Day After Thanksgiving, if you celebrate. This week, we are saying thank you to the authors who wrote books that made our lives a little better.

This episode was inspired in part by Tom Petty. After Tom Petty died, I saw and heard so many people online and off talking about how much his music had meant to them and how some of his songs were the soundtrack to very formative experiences in their lives, and reading all of the tributes and other tributes to people this year made me think about the people who have created the art that I value and treasure and how I might want to thank them while they still have the opportunity to hear it. We live in a time where we are connected to so much art, so much music, so much writing, and much of it makes a minute or a day, or it may be an hour, of our lives better or, you know, at very least, survivable, and so I wanted to give a few of our recent guests, some of my friends, and the ladies here at Smart Bitches an opportunity to say thank you to the creators of the books that have made our lives a little better this year. Now, generally, I try really hard to keep the creator and the work very separate, especially as a reviewer, but there have been a number of books that have meant the world to each of us, so right now, this week, we’re going to make time for saying thanks.

If you’re traveling, this is a great episode, ‘cause we have an assortment of guests and a lot of small interviews. We have the ladies of Smart Bitches, the ladies from The Ripped Bodice, New York Times  bestselling authors, NPR editors, romance readers, children, podcasting librarians – basically, as many people as I could reach with a microphone, I put them in this episode. I definitely want to thank everyone for being available, because I’ve been recording and assembling this episode all during this week while everyone else is getting ready for the holidays, and myself too, so thank you so much to everyone who participated. Sometimes the phone rings, sometimes I’m in a restaurant, sometimes we have a somewhat crunchy international connection, sometimes it’s quiet, sometimes it’s silly, but there are so many writers that we want to thank for the books that made our lives better that that’s what we’re going to do today!

Now, content warning at about forty-nine minutes, fifteen seconds [49:15]. Amanda is talking about the plot of Asking for It by Lilah Pace, which is a book we’ve discussed before, but she does say “content warning,” so that’s your cue; you skip ahead thirty seconds, you’ll be good.

Now, of course, if you would like to thank an author for a book that has rocked your world, you know that I want to hear about it, right? Of course I do! You can email me at [email protected], or it that’s a little too much to remember, Sarah with an H at smartbitchestrashybooks.com [[email protected]] also works just as well. You can record a voice memo, you can email it to me; you can leave a voicemail. I would love to hear from you about what books you would like to say thank you for this year. Doesn’t have to be a book from this year; some of these books are from the ‘50s.

This podcast episode is being sponsored by Dreamlands by Felicitas Ivey, the first book of a series found at DSP Publications. It’s a series filled with danger, monsters, and love, with our heroes struggling towards their Happily Ever After. True love will win out after it, you know, goes through the wringer once or twice.

The Trust and its battle-hardened recruits are fighting a horrific war between the humans of this world and the demons of the Dreamlands. In this shadowy battle, Keno Inuzaka is merely a pawn, first an innocent bystander imprisoned and abused by the Trust, and then a captive of a demon oni when taken to the Dreamlands. But oni Samojirou Aboshi treats the human with unexpected care and respect, and the demon only just earns Keno’s trust when a team from the Trust arrives to exploit the Dreamlands’ magic. And as the war spreads around both worlds, Keno is torn between them. If he survives, he faces a decision: go home, carve out a new life under the thumb and the watchful eye of the Trust, or stay in the Dreamlands and find freedom in love.

You can find out more about Felicitas Ivey’s Dreamlands at DSP Publications.

We also have a transcript sponsor, and, just like last week, we have a special sneak preview of the audiobook at the end of this episode. I think this is a really cool way to include some audiobook samples in the podcast. I hope you’ll let me know what you think. Today’s podcast transcript is sponsored by The Longest Fall, book one in Anna Argent’s Whisper Lake series, available on Audible, iTunes, and at annaargent.com. If you love contemporary small-town romances by Lori Foster and Susan Mallery, you’ll get caught up in the Whisper Lake series by Anna Argent. Whisper Lake is a tourist town nestled in the Ozark Mountains where people from all over the world gather each summer. The rest of the year, it’s a quiet place, home to under four thousand residents. Many of their last names are Grace.

Daisy Grace fell in love with Mark, her best friend’s brother, before she started wearing a bra, but Mark? He barely noticed that she was alive. He set his sights on Janey, older and far more glamorous than Daisy. He was taken, forever. After Janey’s tragic death, Daisy is forced to face the only man who has ever made her heart skip beats and her stomach turn into knots. For almost two years, Mark has lived a solitary life, punishing himself for what happened to his fiancée. When Daisy arrives to convince him to attend his little sister’s wedding, she shatters Mark’s life of lonely grieving. He has no right to feel the things that Daisy makes him feel, but no matter how hard he tries, he can’t convince Daisy Grace to leave him alone. Daisy refuses to give up. If she can’t lift Mark out of the dark recesses, the man she’s been falling in love with forever will be too far gone to save.

Are you tired of bad boys? Maybe ready for a good man instead? Welcome to Whisper Lake, where you won’t find skyscrapers or subways or five-star restaurants, but you will find honorable, hard-working men; kind, honest women; and families who stick together, no matter how messy or inconvenient life gets. Stay tuned for a special sneak peek of the audio version of The Longest Fall at the end of this podcast, and find the complete series at annaargent.com.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. I will have information at the end of the podcast as to who this is and where you can find it.

And of course I need to say a very quick but genuine thank-you to everyone who has supported the podcast at Patreon, patreon.com/SmartBitches. Your support helps me transcribe older episodes and helps me develop new ideas and guest suggestions for the 2018 episodes as well.

I have also seen so many more reviews of the show on different podcast outlets, such as Apple’s Podcast app, iTunes, Podbay, Stitcher. Seeing your reviews and how much you enjoy the show means the world, so thank you so much for making my entire week brighter each time I do an episode. Thank you for telling your friends, for subscribing and reviewing, but most of all, thank you for being part of the podcast each week. I am so excited to meet and hear from more of you in the coming year.

We have over a dozen mini-interviews in this episode, and I am so excited to get started, so let’s do that right now. On with the podcast where we all say thank you.

[music]

Sarah: Hello again, Moose.

Moose: Hi.

Sarah: How are you?

Moose: Good.

Sarah: Okay. So I’ve asked you back on the podcast for two reasons: one –

Moose: Because I’m cool?

Sarah: That’s actually the third reason: ‘cause you’re very cool.

Moose: Yay!

Sarah: The first reason is, you helped a lot of people form a reading habit and start reading before bed, and a lot of people sent me messages on Twitter and sent me messages by email to say thank you to you, and I know I showed all those messages to you, and you were very proud, weren’t you?

Moose: Most.

Sarah: Most of them.

Moose: Probably not all.

Sarah: Well, there, there might have been some that you missed, but you were pretty pleased, right?

Moose: Yeah.

Sarah: Do you have anything you want to say to the people who read before bed just like you?

Moose: Thank you so much for, like, taking what I thought would be a good idea and not just ignoring it because I’m a kid and just listening to it and making it, and trying it and seeing if you, like, enjoy it and think, thought that that would work for you.

Sarah: That’s very cool. Nice job, buddy. All right, so my next question is, this episode is all about saying thank you to authors whose books really made a big difference in your life or in the year or in the past years, so is there an author that you would like to say thank you to for writing a book that you really, really loved?

Moose: I don’t know the name!

Sarah: Well, tell me the name of the book!

Moose: The Creature Department.

Sarah: Oh, The Creature Department? I can look that up! Tell me what you like about The Creature Department. That’s the book you’re reading right now, right?

Moose: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So tell me what you like about the book The Creature Department.

Moose: I like that it’s about smart, like, creatures that are trying to create something cool, and, and they, and they have, like, really wacky and cool inventions.

Sarah: So who’s the book by, Moose?

Moose: Robert Paul Weston.

Sarah: So we are saying thank you to Robert Paul Weston for writing The Creature Department.

Moose: Yep!

Sarah: Yep. Okay. So you started this book a couple days ago, but you are liking it so much that you want to give a personal thank-you to Robert Paul Weston.

Moose: Also thank you to –

Sarah: Machiko.

Moose: – for inspiring –

Sarah: Inspiring this book?

Moose: – Robert Paul Weston to write this book, ‘cause it says it’s for –

Sarah: Machiko.

Moose: Yep!

Sarah: So, so you really like this book –

Moose: Because it’s about really smart and cool creatures that are trying to save their company because if they lose their company, they’ll all be exposed and –

Sarah: They’ll be in danger.

Moose: Yeah.

Sarah: And you’re really enjoying this book so much you want to say thank you.

Moose: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s cool, dude!

Moose: I also like that, how, on the title, each letter is sort of like a little creature.

Sarah: A little monster? That is good, cool cover design.

Moose: Like, the R is like a, so the P part of the R, like the –

Sarah: Yeah?

Moose: – that’s shaped like a P is like a monster with one leg, and then the mouth –

Sarah: Yep.

Moose: – and then the mouth is full of, like, really cool teeth –

Sarah: Yep.

Moose: – so the circle inside the R –

Sarah: Yeah.

Moose: – is, like, filled with teeth, and –

Sarah: That’s really cool.

Moose: – and the other leg is like a human hairy leg.

Sarah: It’s like a human hairy leg. What about the person who wrote Harry Potter?

Moose: J. K. Rowling?

Sarah: Yeah.

Moose: I also thank you to you because those books are awesome and magical and I love magic and –

Sarah: Was that the first chapter book you read? Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone?

Moose: I do not think so, but –

Sarah: No, probably not.

Moose: – it was probably one of my favorites.

Sarah: Yep. Well, it’s time for you to go to bed and do some reading!

[music]

Sarah: And now we hear from Elyse. So tell me about this book that you want to be, you want to thank the author for having written, and be as schmoopie as you like.

Elyse: Okay, ‘cause this is totally schmoopie.

Sarah: Like, on a scale of 1 to 12, we’re talking, like, level 15 schmoopie?

Elyse: So my husband is dyslexic, and he was not a reader through most of his childhood, and the book that made him a reader was The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, which a teacher gave him, and if he had not read that book and not become a reader, we would not have met in the bookstore where we met and would not have started dating and would not be married.

Sarah: Ohhh, that’s so sweet!

Elyse: And I don’t remember the teacher’s name, but I’m also very grateful to her, because inadvertently, she introduced me to my husband!

Sarah: That’s adorable!

Elyse: Told you it was schmoopie!

Sarah: That’s super schmoopie! I’m so pleased. After all these technical difficulties, I’m really glad to have persevered with this.

Elyse: God!

Sarah: All my, all my insides are melting. That’s adorable!

Elyse: Yeah. My husband is pacing the house with the, he’s on the phone with our internet service provider, and things, things are dire here. Very dire.

Sarah: [Laughs] Things at, things at Chez Elyse are quite, quite bad.

Elyse: Yes.

Sarah: So is there a book that you also want to mention that changed your life personally? You do not have to have one, but I don’t want to leave you out.

Elyse: I wouldn’t say it’s life-changing, but I’m very grateful or thankful this year for all of the authors who got me through my mom’s surgeries and kept me company in the ICU waiting room and gave me sanity. I read a lot of Mary Balogh, Balogh in the waiting room, and she’s a very, very good, immersive, kind of healing author, so that worked out really well for me.

Sarah: I have read so many of her re-, reissued Regencies on airplanes in the past year or two? I love them so much.

Elyse: Yes. So thank you. So after listening to all Alisha Rai’s, like, dating things, and she’s so, so adorable and such a wonderful author that I have petitioned the Universe to throw, like, one of the Chrises in her way, whichever one is single, but not Pratt, ‘cause he’s a jerk. So, like –

Sarah: You’re so kind, and I bet she appreciates that.

Elyse: Like, seriously, she deserves a Chris. She does!

Sarah: At least a, a level one Chris.

Elyse: Right. Right, like, she, like, an Evans or a Pine. It just needs to happen.

Sarah: Yeah. I completely agree with you there. No question.

[music]

Adam: Hello!

Sarah: How are you?

Adam: I’m doing just fine. How are you?

Sarah: Welcome back to the podcast.

Adam: Thank you very much.

Sarah: And thank you for agreeing to come back and be on the podcast!

Adam: Well, you know, I mean, yeah, it’s hard work.

Sarah: So this episode is all about saying thank you to an author or authors who have written books that really made your life better or changed your life in some way. And we talked a little bit about this when we were walking the dogs today –

Adam: Yes.

Sarah: – but you have a couple of authors.

Adam: I, I’m, I have three.

Sarah: I, I am not going to stop you. Go ahead.

Adam: All right. So –

Sarah: Spousal privilege!

Adam: – the first one I want to thank, and I guess this is the lifetime achievement award, is Judy Blume. Superfudge was the first chapter book I ever read, and although Adult Me is horrified that I read the second book in a series before I read the first book –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Adam: – I probably didn’t know there was a first book at the time, so, and I read, then went and read all of those books, so I would say that I would not be a reader if I hadn’t picked up Judy Blume in first, second grade, maybe?

Sarah: That is cool.

Adam: The second one, and this is the more current one, you know, in terms of books that I’ve read or finished this year, and that’s Robin Hobb. The last Fitz book came out this year, Assassin’s Fate. Many of them have similar names, but I’m pretty sure that’s the last one, the one that came out this year.

Sarah: If you remembered it correctly, I’ll be really impressed, ‘cause I’d be like, it’s an assassin book. There’s an assassin in it. [Laughs]

Adam: Or a fool. So, right, ‘cause there’s assass-, there’s also Fool’s Fate –

Sarah: Oh, God.

Adam: – and Fool’s Quest and Assassin’s Quest, but I’m pretty sure –

Sarah: You’re trying to kill me here. [Laughs]

Adam: – I’m pretty sure Assassin’s Fate was the last one, and they are phenomenal. The, the characters and the world, but really the characters in those books are just amazing, and the end of fifteen, sixteen or fifteen books across five series in this world was heartbreaking and perfect and exactly the way it should have ended and was amazing, so thank you, Robin Hobb.

Sarah: That was the book that inspired me to interview you in the first place, because we would walk the dogs, and you would tell me about these books, like, several days in a row, you were so excited about them. And also really bummed that it was coming to an end.

Adam: Yeah, although, so that’s, you know, double-edged sword, right? On the one hand, it’s coming to an end, so I don’t have to wait for more books, but on the other hand, it’s coming to an end, so I don’t have to wait for more books.

Sarah: Yes, this is, we, we know this problem.

Adam: Speaking of waiting for more books –

Sarah: Oh, no! [Laughs]

Adam: Sorry, Pat. The, the, the third author I want to thank is Patrick Rothfuss because we talk a lot about, you know, what kind of books do we like to read, you know, what genre, whatever, and really, I will read anything as long as there is a story that makes me want to spend time in it, and Patrick Rothfuss’ books are, they’re stories about storytelling, but they’re also amazing stories in themselves, and of all the books that I go back to again and again just to spend time in them, those are the ones that I think I’ve been going back to the most.

Sarah: Have you been reading them more this year?

Adam: You know, this year I haven’t read any of them start to finish, but I’ve gone back to sections because something sparked in my mind about a particular chapter that I then had to go and find and read.

Sarah: So you, what, hold, hold, hold on. So you will read chapters out of order, but not books out of order.

Adam: Well, or, if I’ve already finished them, I’ll, I, I’ll go back out of order for either chapters or books if there’s something particularly that I want to go –

Sarah: And reread.

Adam: I mean, once –

Sarah: I do that.

Adam: – once I read the whole George R. R. Martin series out of order because there was a particular thing that I wanted to go back to in the middle of one of the books, and then I just ended up reading that whole book, and then I read all of the rest, and then I just went back and reread all of the rest of them in some random order.

Sarah: I feel like I need to, like, call paramedics right now. Who are you? What did you do with Adam? [Laughs]

Adam: No, if you, if you’ve never read them before, you shouldn’t read them out of order, because then you’re getting the story the wrong way –

Sarah: Right.

Adam: – but once you’ve read them –

Sarah: Right.

Adam: – it’s okay to go back to things.

Sarah: Okay! That works.

Adam: I mean, we’ve watched, you know, the Marvel movies out of order all the time. Well, you don’t watch them anymore, but me and the kids do.

Sarah: Yes. This is true.

Adam: Anyway, that’s not relevant to this podcast. [Laughs]

Sarah: I do have a question about the Judy Blume books.

Adam: Yes.

Sarah: So Judy Blume books were my first introduction to the idea that puberty was different for dudes.

Adam: Uh-huh.

Sarah: Like, I had no idea, but I hadn’t really thought that much about dudes? So did you read –

Adam: Are You There, God –

Sarah: Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret?

Adam: Yes! And, quite frankly, I read it when I was way too young. I mean, I said I picked up Superfudge probably in first or second grade. These were all, these books were all in our school library, and I think I just read them all ‘cause they were all on the shelf next to each other, and –

Sarah: Right.

Adam: – I, I don’t, I can’t say exactly how old I was when I read Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret, but I definitely didn’t understand half of it.

Sarah: It’s okay; I didn’t either. I was very confused why maxi pads didn’t have a belt. [Laughs] I was like, when I finally got my first period, I was like, wait, there’s supposed to be a belt! I read about a belt! Where’s the belt? I was being denied accessories, and I was very upset.

Adam: I understand!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Adam: So, yeah, I, I read those, I did read all of them, but I read them when I was way too young, most likely.

Sarah: Yeah, I didn’t quite get –

Together: Then Again, Maybe I Won’t.

Sarah: I did not understand what was happening there.

Adam: I don’t, I’m not sure that I got it the first time I read it, ‘cause I was too young, and then looking back later it was like, oh, that’s what that was about.

Sarah: [Laughs] Cool, dude!

Adam: [Sings] The More You Know!

[music]

Sarah: So, friend, Happy Brunch!

Petra Mayer: Happy Brunch!

Sarah: Cheers!

[clink]

Petra: Clink!

Sarah: All right, so, Petra Mayer, NPR Books.

Petra: Yeah!

Sarah: Thank you for being part of my Thanksgiving podcast.

Petra: My pleasure!

Sarah: So I’m doing an episode that is all about saying thank you to an author for writing books that rocked your world and changed your life, or maybe just made your year better, ‘cause I don’t know if you’ve noticed this year’s been a shithole.

Petra: I don’t know how much I can comment publicly while being an editorial employee of NPR, but books are good!

Sarah: Yes, books are very good. I’m very glad for books.

Petra: Yes, me too.

Sarah: So is there an author that you would like to say thank you to? And you can say thank you to as many as you want, because it’s the internet, and we haven’t run out of room.

Petra: Ah, the magical internet.

Sarah: I don’t – what’s it called when you have a start time and an end time for a radio segment? Like –

Petra: In and out, really, or a post.

Sarah: The in and out? Yeah.

Petra: We call it a post.

Sarah: Post, thank you. I do not have any posts.

Petra: [Laughs]

Sarah: None whatsoever. I could just keep going and going. Someone right now is going to be dyeing yarn, and they’re going to be like, just keep going; it’s fine. I got yarn.

Petra: Meanwhile, my, like, former live broadcast director voice is going, we have to be out at fifty-eight, fifty-seven, thirty!

Sarah: Yes, exactly! [Laughs] Nail the post!

Petra: You learn to measure time that way.

Sarah: Nail the post! Nail the post!

Petra: Ah, yeah.

Sarah: So tell me, who are you, who and what are you thankful for book-wise?

Petra: So I have said this before a lot, but I’m eternally grateful to George Orwell and 1984.

Sarah: You mentioned this when I texted you –

Petra: Yeah.

Sarah: – to ask to do this –

Petra: Yeah.

Sarah: – and I’m so fascinated. I have not heard this story. Tell me.

Petra: I have told it elsewhere, so, you know, if you’re out there dyeing yarn you can, like, mute it if you’ve heard this part, but when I was nine years old, it was the summer of 1984, and my dad, who is deeply weird and has always had –

Sarah: Thank you! [Plate clinks]

Petra: My dad, who is deeply weird and has always had an outsize idea of his daughter’s intellectual capacities handed me 1984 –

Sarah: Perfect for a nine-year-old.

Petra: Here, I think you’re ready to read this.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Petra: My dad has a Ph.D. in Political Philosophy. He’s, you know, he’s my dad. I love him dearly. [Laughs] So I read it, and I had no idea of the, what was going on with the political underpinnings. I read it every year for years after that, and it wasn’t until I was maybe fifteen or sixteen that the central, the Goldstein’s book sections actually made sense, but I did understand dystopia, and I did un-, it was my first exposure to worldbuilding, so I always say that that was the book that made me a nerd, so thank you, George Orwell.

Sarah: That’s adorable!

Petra: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s really adorable!

Petra: So, but if you’re not in the mood for more dystopia this year –

Sarah: We, we have plenty. We have, like, a buffet of dystopia.

Petra: I want to say thank you to Judith Merkle Riley –

Sarah: Ooh!

Petra: – who is the author of one, of some of my favorite comfort reads of all time. She’s one of these authors that I just go back to every couple years and read through her books. Sadly, she died far too young, but she wrote six or seven books. She writes historical fiction with a little romance tinge with wonderful female characters. I first discovered her through a book called The Serpent Garden, The Serpent Garden, which is about a miniature painter in the court of Cardinal Wolsey.

Sarah: Hello!

Petra: Yes, in the era of Henry VIII, and –

Sarah: Hello!

Petra: – she goes to France in his entourage and gets involved in French court intrigue and paints magical pictures, and it’s, and falls in love, of course, with a handsome and lanky secretary who’s much cooler than her scummy ex-husband, or scummy late husband was. So I love Judith Merkle Riley. I am very grateful to her for creating these worlds that I return to over and over again whenever I need a break.

Sarah: That’s so lovely!

Petra: So there you go: that’s what I’m grateful for.

Sarah: Thank you!

[music]

Sarah: And now we hear from Carrie.

Carrie: Some of my big ones that I, I end up talking about pretty much every single time I talk about books, obviously, are, of course, Jane Eyre, which is one of those books that feels really personal to me, even though, obviously, Charlotte Bronte did not write it with me specifically in mind – that would have been really impressive – but what I really love about that is, that book is that it has so much emphasis on maintaining a sense of self when the world does not support you maintaining a sense of self, and –

Sarah: Yes!

Carrie: – self-respect and self-regard. So obviously, I would really like to thank Charlotte Bronte for that, and another book is Bet Me by Jennifer Crusie.

Sarah: Oh, that’s a lovely choice.

Carrie: Oh, my gosh. It is the first romance novel, not the first romance novel I ever read, but the first one that I was absolutely crazy about, and I, and when I try to explain to people that Bet Me, like, really kind of changed my life, they never believe me, but it’s so body positive, and I have some really severe issues with body image, and I found it to be really helpful. And I think an interesting thing about Bet Me is that, unlike Jane Eyre where I relate really, really closely to the protagonist, I’m nothing at all like Min, the heroine of Bet Me, and I’m not in any way attracted to the hero, Cal. He’s not somebody that I would want to date, but I really love their relationship. It’s a relationship with a lot of give and take, and you just really feel like they are equals in that relationship –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – and I love the way that Cal accepts Min and the way that Min accepts Cal and the way that they see each others’ strengths. And, again, the, the, for the body positivity specifically, I would like to thank Jennifer Crusie, and especially when I shop, I remember certain lines from the book. Shopping is really painful for me, so – for clothes – so I remember Cal telling Min, you dress like you hate your body, and so when I pick up clothes and put them on I say, am I dressing like I hate my body or not?

Sarah: Ooh, that’s really powerful.

Carrie: It’s really powerful. I think I needed to be just a little bit more powerful, but any –

[Laughter]

Carrie: – any progress helps. The other line that I think about all the time is her mother, Min’s mother wants her to fit into a, a bridesmaid’s dress –

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: – and Min’s mother is always saying, you’re too big for the dress. You have to lose weight so that you won’t be too big for the dress, and at one point, Cal says to Min’s mother, for the record, Min is not too big for the dress; the dress is too small for Min. Min is perfect. Get a bigger dress. And I found that to be really powerful too. So that’s –

Sarah: That’s the kind of scene where your whole insides just go, oh!

Carrie: Oh, yeah, no. They –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: And it was almost like a revelation to me that that could be true. That maybe, you know, it’s the clothes that are the problem. You just need clothes that are better for you, not, you don’t have to change –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – for the sake of clothes that somebody else has picked out, so it’s very powerful for me. And also just really enjoyable to read: so it’s very funny, and every time I’m really stressed, I’ll just walk by my bookshelf and pick it up and read a page and put it back.

Sarah: Yep.

Carrie: Like, I must have read that book dozens of times by now, but I’ll still go by and just kind of check it for a minute, and then that kind of calms down me, and it makes me laugh, and so it’s not just like, it’s, it’s life changing because it’s, you know, so deep. It’s also just incredibly entertaining, and it embraces a lot of different kinds of Happy Ever Afters –

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: – which also makes me really happy. You know, there’s a, there’s a character, Bonnie, who I am more similar to, and her version of Happy Ever After is honored, and so is Min’s, and so is her friends’, and everybody has a different idea of a future that they want, including a future without a long-term, stable romance in it, and they’re all given equal value. I think that’s so powerful, and I would like to see more of that.

Sarah: Yeah, me too.

Carrie: Yeah! So thank you to Jennifer Crusie.

Sarah: [Laughs] I think a lot of people would like to say thank you to Jennifer Crusie.

Carrie: And I also have been collecting copies of Fast Women because I’m now of an age where there’s been a little bit of an epidemic of divorces, and all my friends who have gone through divorces or separations, they just love Fast Women. Like, that’s –

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: – that’s their jam, and – [laughs] – they’re, like, because it’s a hopeful book, you know, and it’s, it involves a romance that involves an older woman, not, you know, a twenty-year-old, and she’s got an adult kid, and she’s got stuff to work out, and it’s another book that really celebrates friendships between women. You know, Jennifer Crusie does that so well. All her books are kind of these ensemble pieces and –

Sarah: Of women, yes.

Carrie: Women, yeah. So, fantastic. And, and also of men! Like, in Bet Me, you know, Cal has his guy friends, and –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Carrie: – Min has her girlfriends, and then they all kind of merge, but not necessarily romantically?

Sarah: Yes.

Carrie: So they form, like, kind of one fused bigger group that supports each other, and it’s just, it’s just awesome!

Sarah: It so is.

Carrie: Yes, so thank you, Charlotte Bronte, and thank you, Jennifer Crusie. I’ll also say really quick that I, in general, feel really fortunate that from when I was very little to being an adult, I have been blessed with a lot of female authors who have created a huge variety of, you know, “strong female characters” who are strong in a wide variety of ways and that celebrate communities of women, and, and they’ve encompassed all these different time periods and all these different styles of writing and styles of genre, but I’d really like to thank all of them, because there’ve been so many foundational women in my life that I could look up to as a result of having access to that.

[music]

Sarah: Alyssa Cole, would you like to go first, or would you prefer I not put you on the spot?

Alyssa Cole: Okay, so the book I’m thankful for is, it’s a YA book from, like, 1956, I guess? [Laughs] It’s called Fifteen by Beverly Cleary.

Sarah: I love that book so much, and I actually said to my husband today, like, you know what would be amazing is if I could get Beverly Cleary on the phone just so I could thank her for The Luckiest Girl and Fifteen.

Alyssa: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, my God, I can’t believe that you are, you are of the same mind. Please, please tell me all the things.

Alyssa: Well, just because it’s one of the first romances that I read? I got it from the library when I was really, I don’t even know how old. It was middle school or junior high, and it was, you know, the story is very simple: there’s a girl who feels awkward and who really wants a boyfriend. She feels like all the other girls are, you know, getting guys and being cool, but, and then she meets Stan, the, the – [laughs] – sorry, I’m totally blanking on the heroine’s name. But, you know, she meets the hero of the story who has just moved to her small, to her suburb, and he drives the Doggie Diner truck, delivering horse meat to dogs. [Laughs] And, like, it’s just, it, for me, I was, like, you know, a little girl in Jersey City; this whole life, suburban life, 1950s white suburban life was something very, that I really had, seemingly would have no connection with, but it was just kind of like a kind of universal story of, like, that age where you’re really – the, the accuracy of the way it described having a crush on a boy and not knowing if he would like you and the nervousness and waiting for a boy to call and all of those kinds of things. Like, you know, there are some things now that I’m pretty sure don’t date, don’t work very well, like their trip to Chinatown is probably really cringeworthy. I mean, I remember cringing when I read it at a young age.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Alyssa: But, you know, for me it was just one of those books where – because I was reading all kinds of books, but I wasn’t reading specifically romance, and I would find books here and there or find books from my parents’ bookcase, but at that point they were more into, like, you know, I was reading, like, Stephen King and Anne Rice and stuff like that and, like, more sci-fi books, so it was like, oh, this is, like, all of those elements that I like from other books, and, like, I had a couple of other romances I had read at that point, but it was one of those things that really made me say, oh, like, I really love this. I read it over and over again, and, like, over the years and when I started, you know, writing my own little romance short stories or getting, making my stories more focused on romance, it was kind of like thinking about these kind of template, using this book as a kind of template. So it’s just a sweet romance. It’s very, like, 1950s. At the end of the book – [laughs] – like, at the end of the book he, like, gives her his bracelet and is like, you’re my girl, and that’s, like, you know, and they have their first kiss at the end of the book, and it’s not like any kind of sexy kiss or anything. It’s like a very, I guess what would be called clean romance now?

Sarah: It’s very chaste.

Alyssa: [Laughs] But, yeah, I was just thinking that, like, what books would – and it’s just one of the things that really put me on the track toward writing romance and that I just really enjoyed as a young reader, so.

Sarah: I love Beverly Cleary. If I could, if I could interview her just to say thank you for all of the books that she’s written that I have adored – that one and The Luckiest Girl; I must have read Fifteen and The Luckiest Girl a hundred times easily. Love those. Okay, Alisha, you ready to go?

Alisha Rai: I am ready.

Sarah: Tell me.

Alisha: Who I am thankful for, and, you know, I’ve always been thankful for this author, but I think this year especially, is Shelly Laurenston/G. A. Aiken.

Sarah: Yes.

Alisha: [Laughs] Single person, but –

Sarah: Yes.

Alisha: – writing as two authors, and I just, there’s nothing bad I can say about – like, these books are all so wonderful and, and they’re wonderful for so many reasons. I mean, the storytelling and worldbuilding are superb. Shelly Laurenston writes mostly shifters or paranormal-y stuff, and G. A. Aiken writes, like, fantasy dragon romance, and I’m not a huge fantasy romance person, but I love the dragons, love, love, love them. And this year, actually, the Crows were sort of my go-to Shelly Laurenston books. They are just so amazing in so many ways. Part of it is – so the first one’s The Unleashing, and it’s great. You know, it sets up this really cool world of these, this, like, band of, you know, women warriors, and they’re women who are sort of unfairly killed, and they come back to life, and it’s all –

Sarah: Yep.

Alisha: – like, Norse mythology, and they come back to life, basically, to fight, like, you know, injustice and stuff like that for the gods, for the Norse gods. Norse? Yeah, right?

Sarah: Yeah, they’re Norse.

Alisha: Yeah, yeah. And, and the first one is great, and I was like, wow, this is really cool. Like, The Unleashing is awesome, and then I got to the second one, and it was The Undoing, and oh, my gosh, I love this book so much, because –

Sarah: Me too!

Alisha: I know; it’s so good! And so I love it, and this is one of the reasons I love Shelly/G. A. is because all of her heroines, they’re badass and, like, really strong, but I think sometimes, like, people take that to mean, like, well, they have a sword, right? Like, you know, you’re, like, a strong female character; you have your sword and you’re ready to fight, and some of hers do have swords and they’re ready to fight, and some are, like, bookish, and some are, like, you know, introverts and, and she, like, really examines, you know, womanly strength in, in so many great ways. And so the second book in the Crows series is The Undoing, and I, I pitch it to my friends like, well, at one point the heroine, like, jumps out of a moving car to avoid small talk? [Laughs] And everyone I know is like, yes, that’s me! Like, that’s perfect!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Alisha: And that is how to sell this book, because it’s like, yeah, that is, like, introversion, basically. Like, I would, I, when she did that in the book I was like, yep! [Laughs] Like, this one –

Sarah: I would do that.

Alisha: – broke my heart forever. And, and it’s funny and, like, also, like, has a lot of emotional strength. Like, I mean, the whole, the whole series, the whole, I mean, everything she writes, I don’t think I’ve ever read a book where I did not thoroughly enjoy it. And same with G. A. Aiken, for that matter. But, yeah, it is really like, you know, a great examination of, of women and their friendships and their strength and different kinds of strength.

Sarah: Yep.

Alisha: And her heroes, too. Like, I think she examines, like, you know, she has alphas who are alpha without being toxic, and then she has, like, utter smooshballs who are satisfying.

Sarah: [Laughs] Utter smooshball heroes, yes! I’m a fan of the utter smooshball hero.

Alisha: Like, like, she’s got a bear in one of her, in, oh, I think it’s, oh, gosh, which one was it? I think it’s –

Sarah: Is this the bear that’s the, the hockey player?

Alisha: He –

Sarah: The Russian bear, he’s a Russian bear.

Alisha: I think The Mane Squeeze. Yes, I found it. It’s Lock, and he is just like a sweet little carpenter bear. [Laughs] Like –

Sarah: Who doesn’t want a sweet little carpenter bear?

Alisha: Loves honey and likes, like, playing with his toes. Like, he just –

Sarah: Loves honey and playing with his toes. [Laughs]

Alisha: He’s just so cute! And like, then in – [laughs] – even in The Undoing too, like, the hero’s just like, he’s like an owl. Like, basically, he’s got owl characteristics, so he just loves –

Sarah: He turns his head 260 degrees and does it to freak people out?

Alisha: That’s so funny! [Laughs] I mean, and that’s the thing. Like, I, I was never a huge, like, shifter fan, really, but –

Sarah: Nope.

Alisha: – these books, and, and that’s what I love about her is, like, this author makes me love things I never thought I would love, and I think that’s, like, the mark of a really great author. She can sort of, like, transcend whatever your expectations are and really just, like, pull you in, and even if you don’t normally read paranormal or you don’t normally read fantasy, like, she’s created these worlds where you feel like, yeah, this is like the world. This is like contemporary, basically, but, you know, it’s not. Very thankful for her.

Sarah: I am totally thankful for her too. In fact, I was going to go last as I’m building all of these recordings, and she’s on my list of people to say I’m so thankful for. The, the thing that I love about the Crows, and I have said this everywhere on every possible website at any time anyone asks me for, like, end of the year, and I’m like, Crows.

Alisha: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Yes. Crows, all the Crows. The idea that she is celebrating how angry women are, it was exactly what I needed. [Laughs] I was –

Alisha: Yeah, and celebrating, like, how angry they are but also how productive that anger can be?

Sarah: Yes, that anger can be very productive, especially when you have wings, claws, superhuman strength, and –

Alisha: Yeah, and her scary dog who was an abused rescue dog. Brodie! I love Brodie. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes! So the other thing that’s super horrible about the fact that I can hear you –

Alisha: Aw!

Sarah: – and I can hear Alyssa, but you guys can’t hear each other is because I’m also here to totally put you on the spot because I am deeply, deeply grateful for both of your books this year, and I can totally say that as a jerkwad ‘cause, you know, I’m also your friend and I recuse myself from reviewing them, but your books made the world better for a lot of people this year, so thank you guys so much for what –

Alyssa: Oh, thank you, Sarah!

Sarah: I know what you do is hard. It is really fucking hard, but I am deeply grateful and thankful that you write, so thank you!

Alisha or Alyssa: Thank you!

[music]

Bree Bridges: I am Bree, and I am one half of the writing duo behind Kit Rocha, my, with my best friend Donna. We write post-apocalyptic dystopian; now we write post-dystopian romance. [Laughs] Which is something I just made up –

Sarah: Okay, that’s totally –

Bree: – but I’m deciding it’s a thing. So, cool! And I have been thinking about this since you asked me, because I have so many favorite books, and it is really hard to pick a favorite book –

Sarah: Yes!

Bree: – as I’m sure you can sympathize. [Laughs] But there is one book that I have talked about a lot this year, and it’s not just a book I really like, but it’s something that I think is important to erotic romance. It’s, it’s a book that, like, really matters, it’s important, and it’s Sheltered –

Sarah: Oooh!

Bree: – by Charlotte Stein.

Sarah: I have not. Tell me all about it.

Bree: Have you read it? This book was originally published by Ellora’s Cave a few years ago, I believe, and, you know, sometimes their prices were a little high and their covers were a little weird, so I think I didn’t get the traction it deserved at the time, even though everybody who read it –

Sarah: [Laughs] Their prices were a little high –

Bree: – went crazy!

Sarah: – and their covers were a little weird is like, it was one of the most diplomatic things I’ve heard this week, but please do go on! I’m just going to laugh about that for a good ten minutes.

Bree: [Laughs] Yeah. Well, okay, my timeline, my Twitter timeline, for, like, three days was just people discovering this book –

Sarah: Yeah.

Bree: – from other people and then freaking out and reading it, and what makes it really special is that it is one of the sweetest but also dirtiest books most of us had read, but it’s also a very innocent sort of dirty, which, which sounds weird, right? But you know, it was at a, it came out at a turning point which a lot of us have discussed where, you know – and I’m sure you’ve noticed this – erotic romance has been sort of on this –

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Bree: – arc toward extremes, you know. It used to be just anything that was really sexy writing you would put in erotic, and it got to the point where if it’s not, you know, six people and a trampoline, and even then, maybe, if they’re not doing really, really big tricks on the trampoline –

Sarah: Yeah, they’re going to invent an orifice –

Bree: – it doesn’t count.

Sarah: – so that it can be banged in multiple ways and with multiple people.

Bree: Yeah! I mean, and, hey, I, I sort of, you know, our books, I do not make any bones about the fact that they are full of the occasional happy, consensual, kinky orgy, so, you know, but even my cheerfully kinky orgy books sometimes are called not erotic these days, because the line is just, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bree: – I don’t even know where it is anymore. So this book, it never really, I mean, I think you go most of the book before there is even anything beyond kissing and just, like, very mild touching, you know, but it is written from this deep, deep point of view, and it’s written in a way where the character, the heroine is very sheltered, obviously, and she finds all of it just stunningly erotic. It’s all bad and naughty to her, but also good and amazing, and even something as simple as a kiss is overwhelming to her, and it’s written in such a deep point of view and with so much emotion that it becomes dirty. Even if you have read five thousand kisses –

Sarah: That’s really cool!

Bree: – these kisses seem really filthy! It is! And it’s one of those books that I hold up whenever somebody tells me, you know, you can’t call something erotic romance unless it’s got four people or unless it’s got kink or unless this or that, and I say, no. This book is one of the more erotic books that I have read, and a lot of it is just two people making out. So it’s not how extreme the sex is; it’s how much it makes the characters feel, and because of that, how this is such a great example of it is why I think it’s a really important book –

Sarah: That’s super cool, dude.

Bree: – and I’m really glad that it exists. Well, thank you! I thought it was pretty cool too, and I want everybody to read it.

Sarah: Well, I mean, this whole episode is going to be so many different people talking about so many different books that everyone’s going to be broke when this one comes out, as usual.

Bree: Well, that’s the best kind of broke, though: book broke.

[music]

Sarah: Hello, Amanda.

Amanda: Hi!

Sarah: What book would you like to say thank you for?

Amanda: Well, I have two.

Sarah: Excellent!

Amanda: I know that’s cheating, but – [laughs] – mine are really recent, and I picked these two books because they speak to me on a personal level, not just, like, oh, these do great things for romance or, you know, I started reading them at a really young age, but a lot of things that I think are central to my identity, these books addressed, and I really enjoyed, and made me feel, you know, a nice, a nice warm and fuzzy feeling of, of acceptance and understanding.

Sarah: And recognition.

Amanda: Yes. So the first one is Asking for It by Lilah Pace, and Redheadedgirl and I did a joint review of it, and content warning for those who are unfamiliar with the book: it’s about a woman who was raped at a young age, but now that she is an adult, she’s a grad student, she finds that during sex she uses, like, rape fantasies to get off, essentially, and she has these feelings of being conflicted about that. So one thing I liked is that you do see her going to therapy and seeing a mental health professional, and a lot of times romance has aspects of trauma in a backstory, and it makes me really sad that, you know, maybe, like, BDSM is a way to exorcise that trauma or just brooding in some castle is a way to exorcise that trauma.

Sarah: [Laughs] You mean brooding castle therapy –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – is not a recommended technique for dealing –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – with emotional pain?

Amanda: I mean, I can’t afford –

Sarah: Man!

Amanda: – brooding castle therapy, so –

[Laughter]

Amanda: So I really liked that there were scenes that were included of the heroine going to her therapist’s office, and she does talk about her feelings of, like, why do I feel like this? You know, I was raped; I should be disgusted by the thought of it, but this is what turns me on sexually, and the therapist pretty much told her, like, rape fantasies are really common, and you shouldn’t feel bad about it. So I liked that feeling of sexual expression and trying to find what works for you and also coming to realize that, hey, what you like is okay. There’s no shame around it, and also, you know, the, the seeing of a mental health professional. So I really liked that, ‘cause I, I contribute romance with helping me find what I like sexually and giving me the tools to communicate that to my partners, which I feel has been really invaluable in my sexual relationships. So that one –

Sarah: That was a good pick.

Amanda: [Laughs] So that one is on the list, and then the other one is also really recent that I reviewed for the site, and is Dating You/Hating You by Christina Lauren, and what I liked about this book is I feel like so often we see women who have, like, a position of power or who are working on their career or workaholics, and maybe at the end of the book they kind of sacrifice a little bit of that for the romance or for the hero, or a lot of people hate the, the baby epilogue where suddenly, like, she’s pregnant. So what I liked about this is the heroine, Evie, is super career-driven, and she makes no apologies for it, and, you know, spoiler alert, she doesn’t have to compromise that in the ending of the book. She doesn’t have to work less or – you know, the hero and heroine are competing for the same job, essentially. She doesn’t have to, or she, she’s never conflicted of, oh, well, I really like Carter; I guess I shouldn’t go balls to the wall in trying to keep my job. So that’s never a conflict for her, which I liked, because she knows what she wants, she knows what she’s good at, she knows she’s more qualified than Carter, so she’s not going to jeopardize that because she happens to like him. So I thought that was really great, and, you know, in terms of relationships, I feel like you shouldn’t have to, I don’t know, halve yourself to make yourself part of a whole, if that makes sense. You shouldn’t have to sacrifice, you know, the things that you’re passionate about or the things that make you who you are as a person in order to be complementary to your partner. I feel like you should just be who you are and have your own dreams and hopes and morals and find someone who complements those things. It doesn’t have to be the same, but they, they gel well together.

Sarah: And that her ambition is not a bad thing.

Amanda: No, not at all! And she’s got a great group of girlfriends and work friends, and it was, like, a really wonderful, modern, contemporary romance where, like, I feel like I could see myself, because I, I find that I am very work-driven, and, you know, Eric is really, like, we were going to go see a movie tonight, and I cancelled to be like, can we do it tomorrow? I have a lot of deadlines today. And he was like, yeah, sure, no problem! So he’s understanding of my work schedule. And I just liked the book as well because it addresses, you know, sexism and misogyny in the workplace, like how a woman has to work twice as hard to get the same amount of recognition as a man, so I liked how it kind of dealt with those issues but with a really light touch. I didn’t really feel it was too preachy or if it was, like, beating you over the head with social issues. So I really liked that one. I wish it would be turned into a movie, ‘cause we’re missing rom-coms real bad. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s true. So you would say thank you to Lilah Pace and Christina Lauren.

Amanda: Yes. Big, big thank-yous for those books, because, you know, I read a lot of romance, we all do, and a lot of the times they’re enjoyable and we like them, but we might not connect with the characters on a deeper level.

Sarah: And when that happens, it is so great.

Amanda: It is so great! And you have that feeling of, like, yes! This is me! Or I know exactly what this feels like!

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: So I really appreciate both of those, or all three of those authors –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: – Christina Lauren is technically two – for kind of just letting me see myself and some of the things that I try to contend with on a daily basis in a, in a book. It’s really nice to see.

[music]

Sarah: Hello, Ms. Beverly Jenkins.

Ms. Beverly Jenkins: How are you?

Sarah: I am lovely, thank you. I would love to know if there is a book that you loved so much – and there can be more than one book – that you would like to say thank you to the author.

Ms. Bev: I would like to thank Mister – and he’s passed away now – Mr. Frank Herbert for writing Dune.

Sarah: Oh, that is a good one.

Ms. Bev: It is, it is. Oh, my, what the, the first space opera, and I discovered it probably in the mid ‘70s? The scope and the depth and the multiple POVs and the worldbuilding, and I think the worldbuilding got me more than anything else. And then you had, you know, this, it’s sort of, in many ways, female-centered. You’ve got a marginalized group of, of, of native folks. You got sandworms, and you got two love stories. So what could be better, right?

Sarah: Nothing could be better than that, especially the sandworms.

Ms. Bev: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. – we all wanted to learn to, to, to put down the thumpers and call the sandworms and, you know, and ride across Arrakis.

[Laughter]

Sarah: So why does this book mean so much to you?

Ms. Bev: I think because it, it, it showed me, and I didn’t know it then, just the possibilities of how expansive a novel could be. I mean, it was exciting. I mean, I, I had, you know, I was a, a very avid reader up until that point, but I don’t think I had ever read anything with that kind of draw-me-in for that long, ‘cause it’s a, a pretty, you know, good-sized piece, and in looking back, I tend to sort of mentally, but not really consciously, compare other fantasies, other worldbuilding to that. Another great book, sort of, that grabbed me like that is, is N. K. Jemisin’s The Broken Earth trilogy. Same kind of worldbuilding, but on a different level. Just the awesomeness –

Sarah: Yep.

Ms. Bev: Of, of his writing and her writing, just amazing, just amazing, and it makes you want to be a better writer when you can, can read something that, that grabs you the way those two authors, so. So Frank Herbert and, and N. K. Jemisin too.

Sarah: And these are the books that sort of made you go, wow, I didn’t realize books could do that!

Ms. Bev: You know, and, and with the N. K. Jemisin, the first book, you know, and a lot of other people have said this too, I mean, you get seventy-five percent into that first book, and she does something so amazing that you just sort of drop the book. Your jaw drops, the book drops, and you go, whoa!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Ms. Bev: Wow! She’s amazing. Herbert’s amazing; she’s amazing. Yeah! Those are, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. Those two.

Sarah: That’s, those are good picks.

Ms. Bev: [Laughs]

Sarah: Well, thank you for doing this interview, and also thank you for your books. Your books have gotten a lot of people through some really tough times, and I know readers say that to you all the time, but I could not let you go without also saying thank you for what you write.

Ms. Bev: Well, you know, I’m, I’m very welcome, and, and you know, and, and you know, and I, I don’t know if I should thank myself, but, you know, Night Song –

Sarah: Yeah, I think –

Ms. Bev: – Night Song sort of changed my life. Getting published and putting me in this great romance community is something that I will, you know, be forever thankful for and grateful for and, and the readers have, just awesome. Just awesome!

[music]

Sarah: Good morning, Rebekah Weatherspoon.

Rebekah Weatherspoon: Good morning, Sarah.

Sarah: Would you please tell me if there is a book that you loved so much that you would like to say thank you to the author.

Rebekah: Absolutely. It’s interesting because this particular author has been my favorite author in the last few years, more than one. Last year my favorite book was Heroine Complex by Sarah Kuhn, but the year before it was The Viking Wants Forever by Koko Brown, and this year my favorite book I read was Her Silver Fox by Koko Brown. Her Silver Fox is a really cute, light romance about a Black Jewish girl who falls for a silver fox businessman when he comes in to get a suit made by her and her family business, and I thought it just, it handled what happens when two consenting, responsible adults decide that they want to have a sexual fling, but then unexpectedly fall for each other, and what happens when they’re kind of trying to stick to their life plans instead of following their hearts, and it just felt so real and so light at the same time, and it was a, it was a nice kind of break and ray of sunshine in this really crappy year. Koko writes good stuff.

Sarah: That’s excellent! Well, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it, and thank you for your book too.

Rebekah: Thank you.

[music]

Sarah: Redheadedgirl.

Redheadedgirl: Yes.

Sarah: Who is an author that you would like to say thank you to, for which book, and why?

Redheadedgirl: My answer to this is always going to be Joanna Bourne, and I have told her this story, and I made her blush and want to hide under the table, so, you know, winning.

[Laughter]

Redheadedgirl: But The Spymaster’s Lady is the book that brought me back to romance.

Sarah: And it is such a good book.

Redheadedgirl: And it’s such a good book, because I read the review of it on Smart Bitches, lo, these many years ago –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Redheadedgirl: – and I read it, and I was like, I do like this! I do this like genre! Fuck this whole real geeks don’t read romance; real geeks read sci-fi/fantasy thing.

Sarah: Yes!

Redheadedgirl: And nothing else. Fuck that shit!

Sarah: Fuck it.

Redheadedgirl: Fuck it!

Sarah: Yeah, I agree.

Redheadedgirl: So that’s, that’s my main answer.

Sarah: And that’s a good main answer.

Redheadedgirl: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: She does a lot of brilliant things with language in that book.

Redheadedgirl: I know, and we’ve talked about it so many times. [Laughs]

Sarah: Why was that the book that brought you back to romance, because it was, was it because that was the moment when you were like, oh, this is really good and I’m really enjoying this?

Redheadedgirl: Yeah, I think it was the right book at the right time.

Sarah: That’s lovely.

Redheadedgirl: That it was just sort of serendipity.

Sarah: And now there are so many more!

Redheadedgirl: And now there are so many more. [Sighs] Alisha, Alisha Rai, I adore you.

Sarah: Did you read the new one yet?

Redheadedgirl: I, I have. I have. I liked it. I liked Wrong to Need You more than I liked, than I loved Hate to Want You.

Sarah: You, you liked the second one more than the first?

Redheadedgirl: Yeah! And I really, really liked the first one.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Redheadedgirl: And the second one is better. I mean, he’s a cook. What, what do you want from me? What do you expect from me?

Sarah: And he feeds her.

Redheadedgirl: And he feeds her.

Sarah: I am reading it now. I’ve been saving it and saving it and saving it, and I was like, all right, you can read it now. It’s about to be stressful. Go start it. And I had to make myself put my Kindle, like, under my bedstand so I wouldn’t wake up in the middle of the night and be like, I can read another chapter; this won’t be a problem.

Redheadedgirl: [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh, no, I had to hide it so that if I went to go get it I would, like, disturb an animal, knock something over. Like, it was that tempting.

Redheadedgirl: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: It is so good.

Redheadedgirl: Yeah. It’s really good. She is getting better and better as she wri-, as she continues to write.

Sarah: It’s so true. So your thank-you this year is Joanna Bourne –

Redheadedgirl: Yeah.

Sarah: – and Alisha Rai.

Redheadedgirl: Yes.

Sarah: These are good thank-yous.

[music]

Margaret H. Willison: I am Margaret H. Willison. I am one half of the Two Bossy Dames newsletter, one third of the Appointment Television podcast, a regular fourth chair on Pop Culture Happy Hour, and I like to describe myself as the winner of the imaginary reality TV show, America’s Next Top Best Friend.

Sarah: [Laughs] That’s a great bio; well done.

[Laughter]

Margaret: Thank you! I appear on podcasts somewhat regularly and am accustomed to introducing myself.

Sarah: Yeah, I, I can understand that. So I have a one-question interview, and I’m collecting all of these for Thanksgiving, so thank you for joining in the fun.

Margaret: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I would like to know if there is an author that you would like to say thank you for a book that they wrote, and which one, and why?

Margaret: So this question is only hard because you’re like, I get to tell one author thank you for one book? What are you, what are you doing to me, Sarah? [Laughs] To be so decisive!

Sarah: You need to do more than one, it’s okay.

Margaret: No, no, no. I, I accept the brief, and I am equal to the brief, Sarah. You’re not going to, you can’t trip me up this easily.

Sarah: Okay. Well, I will say other people were like, I have two, and I’m like, that’s fine! So.

Margaret: [Laughs] So the only way I could narrow this down in a way that, like, didn’t break my heart is, I have this tradition of writing at the front of my book where I was when I started it and what I was up to, and then writing at the end of the book where I was when I finished it and what I was up to and what the date was. I got this habit from my brother. He did it while he was updating a travel guide for Harvard University in Scotland, and now it’s a habit. And one of the things I’ve started to do is when I reread books under particular circumstances, I’ll make a note there as well, and my copy of Beauty by Robin McKinley has so many annotations at the front that it’s basically like a family bible of all of my emotionally traumatic days.

Sarah: [Laughs] That is such a beautiful book.

Margaret: I love it so ferociously. It’s just, it’s, like, so beautifully well written, and it’s also, at this point, so familiar and so comforting. But it does such a great job of really burrowing to the heart of, like, what makes that story, the story of Beauty and the Beast, so enduring, and building and fleshing it out with such beautiful details and worldbuilding and such terrific characters that you can’t help but be entranced by it. I really think that it’s actually kind of a travesty that she doesn’t have a writing credit on the Beauty and the Beast Disney movie, because so many of the best details in that movie are lifted straight from her story, and I think native to that story. Like, particularly, like, the big moment for Belle and the Beast in the Disney movie is when he, like, sweeps her into the library, and she’s like, oh, my God, there are so many books! Well, that also happens in Beauty by Robin McKinley, only it’s even cooler, because the enchanted castle has all of literature from all of time, and it also has an unerring sense of what Belle will most enjoy, so although it’s taking place in this sort of vague, 17th, 18th century, like, she can read The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, and she can read H. G. Wells and all sorts of other things that are fun, and she is, finds herself baffled by, like, the technology that they’re describing and cars, but she finds that if she just sort of drifts in the story and, like, lets the enchanted castle do its work that it creates the meaning for her, just, if she just, like, lies back and cooperates with it, which is a really cool idea. So.

Sarah: I would like a movie of just that.

Margaret: Right? [Laughs] Same.

Sarah: Like, a magical library automat, just buffeting me the perfect book at the perfect time? I would watch a movie of just that technology for two and a half hours, no problem.

Margaret: It would be perfect!

Sarah: I would love that immensely. [Laughs]

Margaret: And Beauty is just, like, such a perfectly developed character. She’s, just has such a good voice, and I love spending time with her, and I also love that Robin McKinley decided not to make her sisters, like, vain and terrible. She makes them instead, you know, just as lovable as Beauty herself, and a big part of the tension that Beauty feels about staying with the Beast is being far away from her family, whom she loves very dearly, and I think that that actually raises the stakes and points out the true heroism of the sacrifice that Beauty decides to make in the fairy tale to go back to this castle and save her father. If the people who don’t choose that are just abject villains, then that can kind of obscure the real depth of the bravery that you express, whereas when they’re just like good, lovable people who just have a, a husband and a child on the way or are just slightly more scared, you know, it makes the unusualness of the choice that Beauty makes that much more remarkable.

Sarah: And also relatable.

Margaret: Yeah.

Sarah: I mean, not everyone rolls around with hardcore villains in their family –

Margaret: Yes.

Sarah: – though many of us have some.

Margaret: [Laughs]

Sarah: You, you, you don’t get unnuanced, very clear, mustache-twirling villainy. Usually it is a lot more nuanced and, and so –

Margaret: Life is very rarely like a Dickens novel.

Sarah: Exactly, and when you have a family relationship that does have that nuance, it makes the stakes much higher.

Margaret: Yes. I completely agree. I think you did a great job of expressing that, Sarah.

Sarah: Oh, well, thank you. [Laughs]

Margaret: And so, although I could thank many, many, many authors for many, many, many books, I assume the other people who are contributing to this will cover at least one or two, and I just really had to thank Robin McKinley for writing this book that’s gotten me through, documented, a lot of really hard times.

[music]

Sarah: I’m not sure which of you would like to go first, but please introduce yourselves and tell us which author you would like to say thank you to for which book and why, and feel free to name more than one. I’m not going to be super stickler about this.

Bea Koch: Okay. This is Bea, and I’ll go first.

Leah Koch: Try not to sound too enthusiastic.

Bea: Sorry! I’m just trying to think of what I want to say.

Leah: I told you to prepare.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bea: Oh, Sarah. Ugh!

Leah: I’m prepared!

Bea: [Laughs] I’m prepared. If you’re so prepared, you go first!

Leah: [Laughs] No, you can go.

Bea: Okay, I would like to thank Tessa Dare for The Duchess Deal, which helped me get out of a, a reading slump I was in this year by reminding me what I loved so much about historicals and for just being charming and funny as hell.

Sarah: That book is so lovely.

Bea: I loved it. It was just, like, the happiest, warmest hug.

Leah: I liked it too, and I don’t even normally like historicals.

Bea: I know. It, she’s such a good freaking writer. And she’s so modest about it too!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bea: And on the other side of things, I would like to thank Alyssa Cole for An Extraordinary Union, which reminded me of something else about historicals, which is that they can be different than the traditional Regency and still have all of the elements I love and so many more elements, and I just want so many more books like that from her.

Sarah: Yeah, me too. I’m so excited by everything she’s publishing this year. Just, I’m –

Bea: I cannot wait for her contemporary from Avon, which is –

Leah: Oh, I’ve already read it.

Bea: Leah –

Leah: I’ve already read it; NBD.

Bea: I like to wait for the books to come out. I, I generally, if I’m really wait-, if it’s a really anticipated release, let’s say –

Leah: Also, if you don’t follow Alyssa Cole on Instagram, you’re really missing out on what is, in my opinion, the best – she leads the best life. She lives on Martinique with her super-hot husband, and they have chickens and dogs and a cat, and she just posts pictures of their animals.

Bea: The chickens aren’t theirs; they’re their neighbors’.

Leah: Well, they live next door.

[Laughter]

Bea: But, like, Alyssa takes care of them. Yes, we’re very jealous of her.

Leah: Yeah, her life just seems great.

Bea: The opposite of busy city life.

Leah: Yeah. Okay, my turn?

Bea: Yeah, go for it.

Leah: Okay, this is Leah, and I would like to thank Alisha Rai for Wrong to Need You, which comes out three or four days after Thanksgiving, but I’ve already read it ‘cause I’m a fancy person, because I read it after, right after we finished doing our diversity survey this year, and I felt extremely hopeless about this, that we would ever be a representative industry, and then I read this book, and it so effortlessly is a picture of the entire spectrum of humanity, and none of it feels shoehorned or weird or like, oh, they just dropped that in?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And it’s so fantastic, and it’s just the best!

Bea: I have another, I have a non-romance one that I just remembered.

Leah: Wait, it’s still my turn!

Bea: Oh, you have more?

Leah: No, but I wasn’t done!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bea: Sorry. I just remembered one I don’t want to forget.

Leah: Okay, well, I didn’t, I just need to, like, finish.

Bea: Okay, go.

Leah: The end.

[Laughter]

Bea: Sometimes she is such a little sister. Okay –

Leah: Pbbbt!

Bea: – I would also like – I think this book comes out right after Thanksgiving too. It’s not a romance; it’s called – but I think it will be helpful for a lot of people – it’s called The Dead Moms Club, and it’s by Kate Spencer, and I’m a member of the Dead Moms Club, and I just found this book to be so amazing. It, it is so humorous and, like, warm in its, in the way it deals with it. It’s really different than any book about grief or grieving that I’ve ever read, and I would so highly recommend it.

Leah: That’s good.

Sarah: Whoa.

Bea: And I think for the ho-, you know, the holidays are such a hard time for people who are members of the club, so go get this book. It’s like if your best friend is talking to you about grieving. It’s really nice.

Sarah: Oh, and it comes out on the 21st, so it’ll be out by the time this is out. Perfect timing.

Bea: Yeah.

Sarah: You just take this book and go hide.

Bea: Exactly!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I love it! Also, I want to say thank you to you guys for opening a store and showing what can be done with romance in a way that people I don’t think expected –

Bea or Leah: Ohhh!

Sarah: – and I’m just going to –

Bea: We’re so happy to be here!

Sarah: I am so amazed every time you do something new. I think it’s so cool, so thank you for doing what you do. I think that the genre is better because of what you’re doing.

Bea: Oh, that’s so nice.

Leah: You’re so nice! Thank you!

Sarah: Thank you for giving me time on your day off to talk to me; I really appreciate it.

Bea: It’s our pleasure.

Leah: We’re so happy to, and Fitz is here too. He says snuffle-snort to everyone.

Bea: Yes, hello! [Kissing noises] Snuffle-snort? Yeah.

Sarah: Does he have any books to recommend?

Bea: Fitz, do you –

Leah: Oh, that’s a good question.

Bea: Well, Fitz has a, a product to plug! [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay.

Bea: Fitz is coming out with a calendar this year –

Sarah: Brilliant!

Bea: – which will feature the covers of all twelve New York Times bestselling books that Fitzwilliam Waffles put out this year, in, in case you missed them.

Sarah: Oh, this is amazing.

Bea: And they have back cover copy written by the wonderful Waffles, and they’re blurbed by a lot of really –

Leah: Some names you might recognize!

Bea: – impressive au-, he’s got some impressive fans.

Leah: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay.

Bea: It goes on sale –

Bea and Leah: – on Small Business Saturday!

Bea: In store and online.

Leah: [Laughs] It’s really our, like, greatest work of art.

Bea: Yeah, it’s really quite, we’re pretty proud of it.

Leah: [Laughs]

Sarah: Can you send me a link, please!

Bea and Leah: Of course!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Bea: Dude.

Leah: Of course we can!

Sarah: Awesome!

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of what I hope will be an annual Thanksgiving podcast. I, of course, have to send out many thanks, but before I do, I want to invite you to tell me what author would you like to say thank you to, and for what book, and how come? You can email me at [email protected], you can record a voice memo and email it to me, or you can leave us a voicemail, but however, I would love to hear from you.

Now I would like to say thank you to the following people: to Elyse, Moose, Adam, Petra Mayer from NPR Books, Carrie, Alyssa Cole, Alisha Rai, Bree Bridges, Amanda, Beverly Jenkins, Rebekah Weatherspoon, Redheadedgirl, Margaret Willison, and Leah and Bea Koch. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy pre-holiday week to talk to me about books, which I know is not a hardship, but I still appreciate it.

I also have to be super indulgent because, well, it’s my podcast, and I want to say thank you to Amanda, who is terrific and talented and does so much to keep the site continuously marvelous. If you who are listening have clicked on a book or looked up something in our media archive, followed along with what we’re all reading, or purchased a book on sale, or found a cool link on a random Wednesday, that was all Amanda, so thank you, Amanda.

And I want to thank Carrie and Elyse and Redheadedgirl for making the site better every day, and I want to thank the team at Waxcreative for making the hot pink palace looking so good and running so smoothly. And to the team of fast-running gerbils who keep our servers running, I hope someone is giving you lots of treats.

I want to thank each and every one of our Patreon supports, who have made such a difference in the growth and the success of the podcast. I could not have done what I’ve done in the past year without you. I was terrified to set up a Patreon, completely terrified, and yet every time I receive an email that another person has made a pledge, I am so very grateful and excited, so thank you, thank you, thank you for being part of our Patreon.

And of course, you! Thank you to you. Yes, you. You are probably on the treadmill or perhaps the elliptical or lifting weights, or maybe you’re cleaning your house or walking your dog or dyeing wool or cooking all the things or eating all the leftovers, which is, like, totally my plan today? I am so happy that you spend time with me and all of our silliness over here. Thank you for being part of the podcast, and thank you for being part of Smart Bitches.

Today’s podcast was brought to you by Dreamlands by Felicitas Ivey, the first of a book series found at DSP Publications. This is a series filled with danger and monsters and love, with heroes struggling towards their Happily Ever After. True love will win out – spoiler alert – after it goes through the wringer once or twice. You ready for a plot summary? Here we go. This is a, this sounds really cool.

The Trust and its battle-hardened recruits are fighting a horrific war between the humans of this world and the demons of the Dreamlands. In this shadowy battle, Keno Inuzaka is merely a pawn, first an innocent bystander imprisoned and abused by the Trust, and then a captive of a demon oni when taken to the Dreamlands. But oni Samojirou Aboshi treats the human with unexpected care and respect, and the demon only just earns Keno’s trust when a team arrives to exploit the Dreamlands’ magic. As war spreads across both worlds, Keno is torn between them. If he survives, he faces a decision: go home, carve out a new life under the thumb and watchful eye of the Trust, or stay in the Dreamlands and find freedom in love.

You can find out more about Dreamlands by Felicitas Ivey at DSP Publications, and of course I will have a link to this book in the podcast show notes.

Today’s podcast transcript is sponsored by The Longest Fall by Anna Argent. It is book one in Argent’s Whisper Lake series, available now on Audible, iTunes, and at annaargent.com. If you love small-town contemporary romances by Lori Foster and Susan Mallery, you will get caught up in the Whisper Lake series by Anna Argent.

Daisy Grace fell in love with Mark, her best friend’s brother, before she started wearing a bra, but Mark barely noticed that she was alive. He set his sights on Janey, older and far more glamorous than Daisy, and he was taken forever. After Janey’s tragic death, Daisy is forced to face the only man who has ever made her heart skip a beat and her stomach turn into knots. For almost two years, Mark’s lived a solitary life, punishing himself for what happened to his fiancée, and when Daisy arrives to convince him to attend his little sister’s wedding, she shatters Mark’s life of lonely grieving. He has no right to feel the things that Daisy makes him feel, but no matter how hard he tries, he cannot convince Daisy Grace to leave him alone. Daisy refuses to give up. If she can’t lift Mark out of the dark recesses, the man she’s been falling in love with forever will be too far gone to save.

Are you tired of bad boys? Ready for a good man instead, perhaps? Welcome to Whisper Lake, where you won’t find skyscrapers, subways, or five-star restaurants, but you will find honorable, hard-working men; kind, honest women; and families who stick together no matter how messy or inconvenient life gets.

Now stay tuned after the podcast for a special sneak peek of the audio version of The Longest Fall. It’ll start right after the final end of the outro, which is what I am doing right now, and you can find out more about this series at annaargent.com.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find this album by the band Sketch on their album Shed Life, and this track is called “Bulgarian Shed.” This album has, like, three or four tracks that are named after sheds, which I find completely amusing, but I really like this song, and I hope you’re enjoying it too.

Now, two more things. One: I am including both the books that were recommended by all of our guests and the most recent books written by all of our guests in the podcast show notes, so if you’re looking for a book that was recommended or you’re looking to find out more about the people who were appearing in the podcast and whether or not they have written books, you are so in luck! Head over to smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. The show notes for this entry will have all of these books.

Most importantly, thank you to garlicknitter for transcribing this mammoth episode with so many people in it. Each transcript that you guys enjoy is handcrafted by garlicknitter, and she does an incredible, incredible job, so thank you very much, garlicknitter, for being such an important part of the podcast. [Aw, you’re welcome! – gk]

Two last things: one, I tell you a terrible joke, and then we get a special sneak peek of the audio version of The Longest Fall, so are you ready? You ready, ready, ready? Here we go:

Why did the skunk cross the road?

Why did the skunk cross the road? To get to the odor side!

[Laughs] You don’t know how much I enjoy these! I have a really bad one for next week, too. I’m really excited.

And now we have a sneak peek of The Longest Fall by Anna Argent. Thank you for sponsoring the podcast transcript, and thank you for listening each week. I hope you have a wonderful holiday weekend, I hope everything that you want to buy is on sale and easy to get to, and until next week, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and Happy Thanksgiving.

[shed music]

[sample of The Longest Fall]