273. Sex Toys, Self Love, and Erotic Romance: A Very Bawdy Podcast with Thien-Kim Lam

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and happy Friday to you, and welcome to episode number 273 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books. With me this week is Bawdy Bookworms founder Thien-Kim Lam. You might want to grab your earbuds if you’re listening on a speaker, ‘cause we’re going to be talking about sex toys. This interview is by listener request. Nancy C. requested this interview in a recent episode in the comments, and I have been eager to set one up as well, for several reasons. One is that Thien-Kim lives near me, so we could do this interview in person, and two, she just went to a tradeshow about sex toys in Vermont, so she brought samples and new products to share with me and show me all the different things. This is a really fun discussion. We talk about sex positivity. We talk about toys and accessories and general bawdiness. We also do some show and tell, and don’t worry: even though this is an audio podcast, I have so many pictures. They’re, I took several images; they’re all really fun, so you can find them in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. You definitely don’t want to miss the unicorn part. There are also a number of unintentional puns, a lot of discussion about misinformation about sexuality and intimacy, and we have a lot of toys to talk about.

Now, Thien-Kim is always looking for erotic romances to feature in her subscription box, which, by the way, makes a wonderful gift, and I will have links to Bawdy Bookworms and everything else we discuss, including ways to get in touch with her if you are interested in sharing some suggestions.

Now, if you also have ideas or questions, if you’ve got toy questions or you want to, you know, have something to say about this episode, I want to hear from you! You can email me at [email protected]. You can record a voice memo and send it to me, which is so great, and you can leave a voicemail at 1-201-371 – ah, I forgot the phone number – here we go; there it is: 201-371-3272.

I have to warn you, I slept terribly last night, and I’m one of those people for whom loss of sleep is very damaging to my ability to be coherent, so if I sound like I’m completely on another planet, I kind of am, because I did not sleep well, but you know what? I still have an awesome podcast to share with you.

And speaking of: today’s podcast is sponsored by The Secret of the Sheikh’s Betrothed by Felicitas Ivey, which is out on November 15, 2017, at dreamspinnerpress.com, which means it’s out right now. It is a contemporary, male/male romance, part of the Dreamspun Desires line, where the men are hot, the romance is rocking, and there’s always a Happily Ever After. There is a billionaire and a Bedouin girl, and each one has a shocking secret. Billionaire Fathi al-Murzim is a workaholic businessman too busy running the family’s companies to even think about marriage. Too bad he never told his grandfather that he’s gay, because grandfather has just announced a childhood betrothal to a Bedouin girl that Fathi has never heard about before. Ikraam din Abdel was raised as a woman by his avaricious older sister who did not want him being their father’s heir. He never thought he’d be married and is very surprised when his sister informs him of this betrothal. When Fathi and Ikraam meet, they’re drawn to each other in a manner neither one of them expected. As the plans for their wedding progress, they realize that they need to tell each other the truth – but can they, with both cultural taboos and family pressures to deal with? You can find The Secret of the Sheikh’s Betrothed on dreamspinnerpress.com, and of course I will have links in the show notes or, you know, also known as the podcast entry. And thank you to Felicitas Ivey for sponsoring this episode.

I also have a transcript sponsor this week. Each episode gets a transcript handcrafted by garlicknitter. Thank you, garlicknitter – [you’re welcome! – gk] – and today’s podcast transcript is sponsored by Anna Argent’s The Taken series. You can read all about it at annaargent.com, and we have a special sneak preview at the end of the episode, so stay tuned after the show. If you are a Christine Feehan or Shannon K. Butcher fan and love an intriguing paranormal romance, Argent’s series belongs on your reading list.

A leader, an inventor, and a strategist: three women hold the key to survival for a dying people, and the men sent to find them will stop at nothing to ensure their safety. On Loriah, there are but a few rare children born every generation, each one gifted with exception abilities. When a hostile army, the Raide, threatens these children with annihilation, the Loriahans whisk them away to Earth, where they hide in plain sight among people who know nothing of their existence. Years later, and after countless battles on Loriah, defeat by the Raide seems inevitable. A band of elite scouts is sent to Earth to return the Taken to their birthplace and turn the tide of war, but these scouts are not alone. The enemy has learned of these secret weapons. Raised as humans with talents and gifts they cannot explain, the Taken hold Loriah’s fate in their hands. It’s the scouts’ mission to ensure the Taken cooperate, but in the case of three special women, even the simplest of plans gets very complicated. How do you convince these women to sacrifice everything for a world they don’t remember? The answer lies in the hearts of the three men sent to protect them.

Be taken to a world filled with love, lust, and an enticing dose of magic that keeps readers clenching their teeth in anticipation. Learn more about The Taken at annaargent.com. And as I mentioned, stay tuned after the interview, ‘cause we have a special preview of The Longest Fall by Anna Argent. This is so cool. I’m love, I love trying new things; I’m really excited about this.

Now, if you are a fan of the podcast, I have a few things to say: first, thank you! I have been mentioning reviewing the podcast, and I found some reviews on Podbay. They made my entire week so much brighter. Thank you so much for reviewing the show and recommending it and telling friends and subscribing and for being part of the podcast each week. I am enormously flattered by how excited you are for new episodes and how much you enjoy the podcast, so thank you so much.

And of course we have a podcast Patreon page. If you have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches, you’ll find ways to support the show, help me transcribe older episodes, and also help me develop ideas and generate suggestions and guest, guest ideas for the 2018 episodes as well. The podcast community is so amazing, and I am so very thankful that you listen each week, so thank you for that.

The music you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. I will, of course, have information at the end as to who this is.

We also talk about a number of books, because – [laughs] – Thien-Kim brought a list ‘cause she’s so organized, so I have books to recommend. I have tons of links to Bawdy Bookworms’ different options that she’s offering for the holiday. Wait until you hear the name of the holiday seasonal box; it’s great! And I of course have links to our reviews of the Bawdy Bookworms series done by Amanda, Elyse, and Redheadedgirl. You may remember Dewey’s adventure with the Bawdy Bookworms box, and if you haven’t, you should check it out ‘cause it’s hilarious, and you probably deserve a very, very long laugh, and this entry will provide it!

And now, without any further delay – I’m a slow talker today, y’all; I am so sleepy – [laughs] – let’s do this interview! On with the podcast!

[music]

Thien-Kim Lam: I’m Thien-Kim, and today I’m here to talk about Bawdy Bookworms, which I founded two years ago, and it’s a subscription box that pairs steamy romance books with sex toys. I’m just going to lay it out there: sex toys.

Sarah: Oh, yes, and on my table currently – it’s a pity that this is audio only – is a complete array of fun sex toys. I’m really excited to talk about this! This is so great! So before we get to the sexy toys, what – ‘cause we met for coffee, and you told me some really interesting things, that you had started Bawdy Bookworms after you had been a host for parties of sex toys. Is that right?

Thien-Kim: Yes. So, when I was in my early twenties, I started selling toys at home parties for, you know, like Mary Kay, but our things are much more exciting? [Laughs] But still –

Sarah: So like Mary Kay or Tupperware, only orgasms instead.

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: I love a good leftover, but I totally pick orgasms over leftovers.

Thien-Kim: Oh! Totally.

Sarah: Totally.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: And so I was selling that for, you know, I guess I did it for about twelve years, so I –

Sarah: Wow!

Thien-Kim: – we had – and it was a serious business. I earned enough money to pay for our wedding in six months. I was able to –

Sarah: Wow!

Thien-Kim: – pay for our wedding, and after that, you know, I just said, you know, this is really fun. I get discounts on toys, and I get to, like, teach women about all the cool things they can use to play with.

Sarah: Right. And so you would have parties in your home.

Thien-Kim: I would go to other people’s homes –

Sarah: Oh, you would go to other people’s place, people’s –

Thien-Kim: Yeah, so, and I would do a, a show, and I would talk about the – I had this whole spiel, and, you know, we had jokes. We consultants would share different jokes that we can use to talk about products, because it’s kind of nerve-, you know –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – you’re nervous. You’re talking about –

Sarah: You need to break the ice, basically.

Thien-Kim: – vibrators and, and penises and all that stuff, so you kind of want to break the ice and just make it fun.

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: ‘Cause sex is fun!

Sarah: So you have, for fifteen years now or more, a very – forgive me – deep knowledge of sex positivity.

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: So you kept at sex parties – sex parties – sex toy parties – okay, got to, got to –

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: – got to insert – heh-heh – the correct wording there.

Thien-Kim: Yes, there was no nakedness involved at these parties.

Sarah: No, it’s not a, not a, a hook-up party –

Thien-Kim: No.

Sarah: – it’s a sex toy –

Thien-Kim: Whatever happened after I left was on them.

Sarah: Yeah, that was, that was up to them.

Thien-Kim: Yes. [Laughs]

Sarah: But hopefully it was good.

Thien-Kim: Yes, I’m sure.

Sarah: And then you realized you have all of these connections, and you have all of these wholesale connections to different sex toy and pleasure toy distributors, so you started a subscription box.

Thien-Kim: Sort of. It started because of Fifty Shades, believe it or not. I’m not, I’m not a fan of Fifty Shades, but I love that it encouraged women to talk about all the toys that they used.

Sarah: I completely agree, and I think that one of the reasons why that book spread so quickly is that it was really easy to say, okay, this book totally improved my sex life, and I don’t know anyone who says no to good or-, good orgasms, right? Nobody says no to that.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, I actually heard about the book from one of my clients at a party, and it was, have you read this book? And –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: – I sold a lot of Ben Wa balls that year. [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m sure! I mean, any product that was in there was probably like, I want to try that.

Thien-Kim: Right, and there’s even a, there’s a company, Lovehoney, that’s created an official Fifty Shades line that’s approved by E. L. James.

Sarah: Of course. Got to get that licensing money.

Thien-Kim: That’s right!

Sarah: Got to cut that check!

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: My pediatrician came up to me, ‘cause she knew about my website – this is our pediatrician in New Jersey – and, and was like, have you read this Fifty Shades book? I got my husband a grey tie, I was so turned on, and I was like, I’m not prepared for this conversation in this location.

Thien-Kim: TMI, right? [Laughs]

Sarah: I was not prepared, but then I had this way of saying, oh, okay, so you like contemporary romance that’s erotic and explicit, and so the next time I came to the office – I usually bring romances with me when I go to a doctor’s appointment, ‘cause most of the people who work in the front offices are women?

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: I brought explicit contemporary romance –

Thien-Kim: Very nice.

Sarah: – because I knew that that was what they liked. It’s a shorthand for, oh, okay, this is the genre that you enjoy.

Thien-Kim: Right, it’s kind of like, oh! You know –

Sarah: Just let me, let me show you. [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: Right, because there’s so much shame around reading romances, especially the ones that are explicit.

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: So I’m glad it opened a conversation, and that’s actually, people would come to me and say, Kim! I love Fifty Shades; like, what should I read next? Or what is this thing, toy that they use in the book? Can you explain this to me? And more and more people would message me, and I said, you know, we really should do something about this, and I said, I love reading explicit romances because it kind of gets you flowing, gets you in the mood, or you, you know, try new things with your partner.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: And I said, why not have it all in a set?

Sarah: Yeah! Book, toy, pampering.

Thien-Kim: Right?

Sarah: Or paddling, depending.

Thien-Kim: And it’s also my opportunity to say, hey, you know, here’s an awesome sugar-free lube, because you don’t want to use sugar –

Sarah: In your down-there parts.

Thien-Kim: Exactly, so –

Sarah: That would be bad.

Thien-Kim: – you know, each box comes with a little card with play tips and things like that, so here’s my chance to educate women as well about what is safe, and you can still have fun.

Sarah: So you, and effectively, you are eradicating shame around romance and erotic romance; you’re eradicating shame around sexual, sexual toys and pleasure; and you’re eradicating misinformation, of which there is a lot.

Thien-Kim: There is a ton out there.

Sarah: What are some of the things that you most commonly have to correct people about?

Thien-Kim: A lot of people are afraid of anal play –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – so we talk about that in our, we have a closed Facebook group where women can, you know, bring up all these questions in a safe environment. A lot of men and women think that if they have a partner, they don’t need a sex toy. They don’t need a vibrator. That their partner can do everything. Like –

Sarah: That the toys are only for people who don’t have partners.

Thien-Kim: Right, or that, that their partner is, it won’t be good enough if they pull out a toy for play.

Sarah: So rather than seeing it as an accessory, they sort of see it as a replacement.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: When really it is an accessory, an addition.

Thien-Kim: Right, and for me, most women don’t know that they can’t have orgasms just through penetration.

Sarah: Yeah, romance has a bit of a, of a share of the blame there, I think.

Thien-Kim: Right! [Laughs] Orgasms come so easily in romances.

Sarah: Multiple times.

Thien-Kim: Multiple times.

Sarah: I’m going to have to do a Count the Pun, or Count the Unintentional Pun in this episode, ‘cause we’re going to, insert, deep, comes, yeah.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay, that’s three so far, if you’re playing –

Thien-Kim: Too bad it’s not on video; we could have a ticker.

Sarah: Right? Playing along at home!

[Laughter]

Sarah: There’ll be a prize for the one who catches all of them.

Thien-Kim: There you go.

Sarah: I’ll have to edit very closely in this episode. So you have to deal with a lot of people who think that accessories are something that you shouldn’t get involved with ‘cause it’s some sign of not being satisfied.

Thien-Kim: Correct.

Sarah: Oy. So what has been the response to Bawdy Bookworms? What have some of your subscribers had to say?

Thien-Kim: People think it’s a brilliant idea, and they’re surprised no one has put these two things together before.

Sarah: Yeah, I can, I – yeah! I’ve said the same thing!

[Laughter]

Thien-Kim: And I have a lot of subscribers who are new –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – to toys, so it’s been a good way for them to try things out, because, you know, some sex shops are not very female friendly.

Sarah: No. They’re, I’ve been to a few, especially if they sell a lot of pornography, because the pornography and the images on the covers are really, can be very degrading to women. That’s not –

Thien-Kim: Oh, yeah.

Sarah: – going to make you feel safe to shop in.

Thien-Kim: That’s one thing I look for in packaging for the products I include in the boxes as well –

Sarah: Oh, that’s interesting!

Thien-Kim: – ‘cause to me that’s important because, you know, people can’t see me on the podcast, but I’m Asian-American, and that’s a, an exoticized –

Sarah: Oh, dude, there’s a whole –

Thien-Kim: – niche.

Sarah: – like, big fetish industry –

Thien-Kim: Right, and that makes me uncomfortable –

Sarah: – focused on –

Thien-Kim: – to see –

Sarah: – Asian women.

Thien-Kim: – Asian women half naked on packaging, you know, and it’s like, I don’t want to think of myself in that way?

Sarah: Always playing into a very specific –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – stereotyped image.

Thien-Kim: Right. So I would rather have, you know, as you can see on the table, everything’s, like, soft, feminine, even, you know, this, we’ll talk about this, this unicorn thing later. It’s not soft, but it’s definitely, like, edgy –

Sarah: Oh.

Thien-Kim: – and fun and not intended for the male gaze, right. It’s for women.

Sarah: And everything that you’ve brought, if there is a gender angle to the marketing, I’m seeing it as very subtle.

Thien-Kim: And there are definitely products out there that are gendered –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: -and they don’t appeal to me, because that’s not the people I’m trying to reach. I, I think people who are, have tried a lot of toys, more experienced, like, that doesn’t bother them as much –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – but I want to, like, you know, when you get a Bawdy Bookworms box, you’re just treating yourself. You’re relaxing with a book, you want something that makes you feel special –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – you know, that you’re taking care of yourself, and seeing a half-naked woman on a box does not do that.

Sarah: No. No, it doesn’t.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: And also, if, if the statistics from Romance Writers of America are correct, then most romance readers are in long-term relationships or in relationships, and if not most, then at this point many, so you’re already marketing to an audience that is likely to have a partner or likely to have a regular sex partner, and you’re introducing something that is for both of them, so you want it to be sort of neutral –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – in the way that it’s presented and marketed.

Thien-Kim: Especially a lot of men, for heterosexual couples, a lot of men feel intimidated by anything that’s phallus shaped.

Sarah: Yes!

Thien-Kim: Right, I mean, you know, we make –

Sarah: Big blue penis!

Thien-Kim: – we like to read about ménages, but it’s not something –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – you actually want to try in real life.

Sarah: Right, yeah, that – mm-hmm. So you recently went to a tradeshow about sex toys –

Thien-Kim: I did!

Sarah: – in Vermont, in October.

Thien-Kim: Yes, it was –

Sarah: That must have been so ugly.

Thien-Kim: Off-peak season, so no skiers. [Laughs] It was, the, it was a very quiet at the resort that they held it in.

Sarah: Where, was it at Stowe?

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: Yep. I’ve been by it.

Thien-Kim: It’s beautiful.

Sarah: It’s gorgeous up there. Must have been peak leaf season, too.

Thien-Kim: And I got, I got some pretty good pictures.

Sarah: Nice! Sex toys and fall foliage!

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: So what did you do at the tradeshow?

Thien-Kim: So they had sixty vendors there, and basically you could go around and talk to different manufacturers and learn about their products –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – so I went looking for products that might work for Bawdy Bookworms and just to learn, like, what the new trends were.

Sarah: So you don’t, you don’t still do the at-home parties for sex toys.

Thien-Kim: I don’t.

Sarah: No. Okay.

Thien-Kim: I don’t. That was, I stopped doing that because there was so much focus on sales, and I really want to build this community and empower women to take charge of their sex lives.

Sarah: So instead of selling people more toys, you want to do more education and involvement with eradicating disinformation, but also encouraging repeat use of the toys that they have.

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: And, and I aim to choose toys that are of good quality. You know, our box is not that expensive, so you’re not going to find super high-end toys in it –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and, but, you know, I want to toys that’ll last you a while.

Sarah: And the things that I’ve seen in the Bawdy Bookworms box are very high quality. Like, they, they’re very durable, and they’re, they’re really nice. Like, there’re some things I’ve never seen before.

Thien-Kim: Oh, good! [Laughs]

Sarah: Something that, well, I mean, you sent review boxes to two or three of my reviewers, and they’ve all been like, this is great! And the batteries are included! Seriously, that’s the most brilliant part: you include batteries. Well played.

Thien-Kim: Thank you! I know that’s important for me, because I hate scrounging for batteries.

Sarah: Oh, it’s the worst! So when you went to the, when you went to the trade show, were there any vendors that you were like, I’ve got to talk to this person; I’m super excited? Or were you just sort of like, let’s walk around and see what all I can find?

Thien-Kim: There were, there were a few vendors I purchase from regularly, and the thing is, you know, I’ve only communicated with these companies via the Internet, so I’ve never seen them in person. I don’t know what the product – I just see the pictures of the product –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – and for me, because I don’t have a store, brick-and-mortar store, packaging is important. It can’t be too big, ‘cause I have shipping restrictions, like, you know, how big the box is and all that stuff –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – so that helped me a lot, and just to see, I did discover some new manufacturers, which, this, this wand right here, with the Swarovski crystal in it, it’s super cute. Should we take it out of the box?

Sarah: It’s adorable! All right, so describe this thing for me.

Thien-Kim: Okay, so it’s, they call it teal; I would call that, like, a, I don’t know, what do you call that?

Sarah: That’s not teal; that’s more like a seafoam green.

Thien-Kim: Seafoam green, and it’s –

Sarah: But not like ugly bridesmaid’s seafoam green.

Thien-Kim: No. So think of the Hitachi wand, which everyone talks about all the time. This one is smaller; it’s all silicone. Water, splash-proof, so you, you know, take it in the shower.

Sarah: Don’t worry, listeners; there will be pictures with the podcast entry.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m getting a picture right now. That’s gorgeous.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, and you press the crystal to turn it on.

Sarah: You know what that is? That’s the, that’s nearly Tiffany Blue! That is very close to Tiffany Blue.

Thien-Kim: Oh, yeah, you’re right, very close. It’s a little more green than Tiffany Blue.

Sarah: Yes, but with the silver, that is, I think that is sort of the angle they’re going for.

Thien-Kim: And this is such a great toy because it’s a good price point for a toy that’s all silicone, except for the crystal –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – and it’s rechargeable.

Sarah: Whoa, hello!

Thien-Kim: Right? So it’s handheld, rechargeable, no cords.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: It’s got really good power. It comes with a, like a travel carrying case. It comes with a lock, so if you travel –

Sarah: All right, let’s, let’s open this thing up.

Thien-Kim: – you, it won’t go off in your suitcase.

Sarah: [Laughs] This is the cheeky, luxurious wand massager. I love this! This is a new vendor?

Thien-Kim: A new-to-me vendor –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – and this is actually going into our holiday box, which is called Joy to the O.

Sarah: I LOVE THIS NAME!

Thien-Kim: [Whispers] I know!

Sarah: Oh, do you pull the ribbon?

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: This is very classy!

Thien-Kim: Pull on, that’s the, the little cover for the charge plug, yeah.

Sarah: Okay. So let’s pull this guy out of the box, put the charge plug back in. Okay.

Thien-Kim: So you hold –

Sarah: This is really –

Thien-Kim: Yeah, if you hold down the crystal –

Sarah: Wait, I’m talking into this like it’s a microphone I got myself.

Thien-Kim: It’s, it’s smaller than the microphone.

Sarah: It is smaller than my microphone. Wow. So it’s very soft, and it’s very lightweight, and I suppose this is the part that vibrates.

Thien-Kim: Yes. So if you hold down the crystal, I think –

Sarah: [Yelps]

Thien-Kim: – it’ll turn on, and, and if you press it, it’ll, the vibration will increase in intensity. And the wand head is flexible, so you can angle it the way you need to. So this is mostly a clitoral toy.

Sarah: This is clitoral stimulation.

Thien-Kim: Right, and –

Sarah: It does shake the plug out.

Thien-Kim: It does get – you know, the plug actually goes, I have to, I didn’t read the directions till last night when I was charging it for our, our recording. [Laughs]

Sarah: I appreciate that you did prep work to, to show me sex toys. This is, like, quite amazing.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, so it comes with a USB charger –

Sarah: And a little bag!

Thien-Kim: – and a little satin bag to store it.

Sarah: Oh, my goodness, this is very cute.

Thien-Kim: And I, I thought it was adorable, and this line has other, they have a G-spot toy and then a regular type, you know, what you’d imagine –

Sarah: This –

Thien-Kim: – a vibrator would be, but it’s adorable! And if your kids find it –

[Buzz]

Sarah: Yeah, microphone’s picking that up. And if my kids find it, they’re going to be like, what’s this? It’s –

Thien-Kim: My back massager.

Sarah: It’s a back massager!

Thien-Kim: And you could use it on your back too, as well.

Sarah: Actually feels kind of good on my neck.

Thien-Kim: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Wow. This is great! You must have been very excited to find this.

Thien-Kim: I was so excited. So our, our Joy to the O is the special edition holiday box; it’s not part of the subscription.

Sarah: You want to give me the –

Thien-Kim: Oh, yes.

Sarah: I’ll put that back in.

Thien-Kim: So this, our, this box is a little bit more, because I wanted to, you know, the holidays, you want to treat yourself to something nice.

Sarah: Yeah!

Thien-Kim: I wanted to put a really nice, high-end toy in it.

Sarah: This is adorable, and – oops!

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: Don’t hit the button. And because this is silicone, you can wash it.

Thien-Kim: Yes, you can wash it. It even comes with a little brush, so there’s, like, this, I don’t know, was, would you call this chrome? Like, a chrome detail, so it comes with a –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – a soft brush where you can clean between the grooves of this decorative – they took, they put a lot of thought into designing this toy.

Sarah: That is really a, that is really fine attention to detail, because you want to be able to wash things like this, and if there is a texture, you want to make sure it’s very clean.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: That makes sense! Oh, my gosh, this is so cool! I love it! Oh, and it’s a Canadian company. Thank you, Canada!

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: You’re great! [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: There’re some good toy companies out of Canada.

Sarah: Oh, well, you know, it gets cold and dark. They’ve got to stay busy, right?

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: You can only do so much with maple syrup, eh? All right. I love this so much. This is going to be part of the Joy to the O Bawdy Bookworms box.

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: This is so cool. When does that go on sale?

Thien-Kim: So it’s on pre-order, and they start shipping early December.

Sarah: Okay, so you’ll send me links to all of this so I can share it with the podcast?

Thien-Kim: Oh, yeah! I’ll be happy to send you links.

Sarah: Somebody’s going to be walking the dog or, or outside exercising, and they’re like, I’m, better not be listening to this on speakers. I’ll have to put an intro, an intro like –

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: – y’all, this is an earbuds-only episode. All right, so what else do you want to show?

Thien-Kim: Okay, so one thing I really wanted to look for was this unicorn. It’s called the Unihorn –

Sarah: The Unihorn! Oh, my God!

Thien-Kim: – and it’s from rocks unlimited [Rocks Off], and it’s a bullet-type toy, so that’s clitoral stimulation, you know, external, and if you go to the Bawdy Bookworms Instagram page, there’s a selfie of me with the horn on my head.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Can I open this? Because –

Thien-Kim: Yes, please!

Sarah: Okay.

Thien-Kim: It’s super-cute. It’s only, what, like, four inches?

Sarah: So it kind of almost looks like a, like a very small ice cream cone, but you hold it by the ice cream part, and it has pink to orange to yellow fading, and it is a unicorn horn with, and it’s, like, shiny, prism.

Thien-Kim: Yes. I think – hold on – I think there’s probably, usually –

Sarah: Oh, yeah, I’ll hold that.

Thien-Kim: – usually things –

Sarah: Don’t worry; I’ve got editing software.

Thien-Kim: – a cover so the batteries don’t go off in transit, so we take that off, and then there’s a little button at the bottom.

[Quiet hum]

Sarah: Oh, my gosh, and –

Thien-Kim: There’re ten speeds, right. That’s what the box says.

Sarah: Ten speeds? It’s a, yep, ten-speed unicorn horn.

Thien-Kim: So it’s pretty intense. If you like focused stimulation, this is the toy for you.

Sarah: So this is focused clitoral stimulation with the horn part, or the vibration also goes down the sides as well.

Thien-Kim: Yes. And you can probably –

Sarah: Wow.

Thien-Kim: – use it for insertion, but it, I think it’s more fun external.

Sarah: Wow! This is a – ah! It pulses!

Thien-Kim: Yeah!

Sarah: I wasn’t expecting that.

Thien-Kim: Right, so I’m hoping, so I’m hoping to get a supply of these, because I’m going to make a kit with that toy and this lubricant called Unicorn Spit.

Sarah: Unicorn Spit?!

Thien-Kim: It’s –

Sarah: Unicorn Spit. Oh, my God. I can’t turn it off.

Thien-Kim: The, the, the copy on this is hilarious. I think if you just hold it down it should turn off. Or maybe, maybe –

Sarah: Ah, yeah, okay. I was just going to keep cycling through and –

Thien-Kim: So this is doughnut-flavored Unicorn Spit lubricant.

Sarah: Doughnut-flavored Unicorn Spit.

Thien-Kim: Let’s see – I don’t know if the copy is – oh, yeah, read the copy under directions.

Sarah: Okay.

Thien-Kim: This is very funny.

Sarah: All right, I’m going to take a picture of this with my microphone, ‘cause I am that amazing. Doughnut-flavored lubricant.

Thien-Kim: And this is sugar-free. So anything flavored you want to use around the, the female parts, you want to keep sugar-free so you don’t get any infections.

Sarah: Okay. You can say whatever words you want; I have no FCC oversight.

Thien-Kim: Okay. Oh, good.

Sarah: [Laughs] Directions: Apply Wet Unicorn Spit as desired to the area of the body you wish to enchant and moisturize. Reapply as you wish. Rinses away easily in a fresh mountain spring. Harmless if ingested. Unicorns would be proud of you for swallowing. Latex safe.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: This product comes, contains no sharp horns. No unicorns were harmed in the making of this product. Oh. My. God.

Thien-Kim: Isn’t it awesome?

Sarah: This is incredible.

Thien-Kim: Which is why I’ve been on this spree –

Sarah: STAYS WET LONGER, STAYSWETLONGER.COM are all – wow.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, so I’ve been on this spree –

Sarah: So this is glycerin based.

Thien-Kim: It is, and glycerin, I know some people don’t like it, but it does make the lube last longer.

Sarah: Yes! This is adorable. Oh, my gosh. So this is doughnut-flavored Unicorn Spit –

Thien-Kim: I haven’t tasted it, so if you, we want to open it and taste it –

Sarah: All right, shall we do a taste testing?

Thien-Kim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s do it.

Sarah: All right, we need taste testing. All right. The things I do for my podcast audience, man. All right, so it’s cool if I open this?

Thien-Kim: Yes, please do!

Sarah: All right, here we go. Sampling doughnut lubricant. So a really, really, really long time ago, there was a radio station I used to listen to in New York. They’re, they’re still there. It’s called Z100, and they used to a dirty euphemism a day in the month of May, and they would have dirty euphemisms sent in.

Thien-Kim: Fun.

Sarah: And one was so bawdy and so, like, so over the edge that they did half of it before the traffic report and then half of it after the traffic report, and of course I remember it. It was spearing the hairy doughnut.

Thien-Kim: Very nice!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Somewhere, Elvis Duran from Z100 is like, I, I, I sense a disturbance: who’s talking about me?

Thien-Kim: So the best way, I think, to taste lube is to put some on your skin and rub it in a little bit, because –

Sarah: M’kay.

Thien-Kim: – we don’t normally, like, squeeze bottles of lube in our mouth to ingest it.

Sarah: Right, nobody just, nobody – it’s, it’s not like it’s Reddi-wip.

Thien-Kim: Right, so it, it’ll be a little too intense if you just squirt it in your mouth, though I did find out from a, a couple of vendors that –

Sarah: They have.

Thien-Kim: – that people, there’s, there’s a company that makes really delicious flavored lube, and they put it in their coffee when they don’t, like, have sweetener.

Sarah: They put lube in their coffee when they don’t have –

Thien-Kim: Mint chocolate flavored?

Sarah: Oh, my gosh, really?

Thien-Kim: Okay, let’s, so did you taste it already?

Sarah: I just, I have not tasted it –

Thien-Kim: Okay, here we go.

Sarah: I have rubbed it in.

[brief silence]

Thien-Kim: It’s very light scent.

Sarah: Does not have a lot of scent at all.

Thien-Kim: And it’s a very light lube too.

Sarah: Mm.

Thien-Kim: Not bad.

Sarah: Not bad.

Thien-Kim: It doesn’t taste like doughnut.

Sarah: Does not taste like a doughnut.

Thien-Kim: It just tastes sweet.

Sarah: It tastes like – it’s super sweet; it tastes sort of like the icing. And I can see why you wouldn’t want to squirt that directly into your mouth; it’s a little too intense.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. And because the –

Sarah: But not bad!

Thien-Kim: And, and because they don’t use, they use artificial sweeteners –

Sarah: Yes, obviously.

Thien-Kim: – it can be a little intense if you –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – consume a lot. Yeah.

Sarah: But also, I can’t see getting tired of that.

Thien-Kim: No, no.

Sarah: Speaking of things that are, that are odd, you read about the grapefruit trick, right? With the blowjob?

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: Okay –

Thien-Kim: That sounds like it would be ir-, like, literally irritating.

Sarah: I said, I, I told my husband about this, and he’s like, that’s an acid. I know this just, I, I know that that’s an acid. I don’t want that near me.

Thien-Kim: You can buy sleeves for guys that do similar things, and they’re –

Sarah: Right, that go up and down the shaft.

Thien-Kim: Right, and they’re open, and then you can get ones that are open-ended, so you can do the grapefruit trick.

Sarah: Right. So the grapefruit trick, as I understand it, is you cut the ends off a grapefruit, and you shove an erect penis into the middle of the grapefruit, and you slide it up and down while you give someone oral. There’s a whole –

Thien-Kim: That sounds like too much work to me. [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s, I don’t, I, I don’t like grapefruit, so this was never going to be a thing I do.

Thien-Kim: Oranges? Maybe not mandarin oranges –

Sarah: No, still not, I’m –

Thien-Kim: – too small.

[Laughter]

Sarah: It’s almost clementine season. I’m sorry.

Thien-Kim: That’s true! It is almost clementine season.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: No.

Sarah: So you’re going to send out the unicorn horn with the unicorn lube.

Thien-Kim: So I’m still trying to find –

Sarah: You need an erotic fantasy novel to go with this, huh?

Thien-Kim: I know! I wanted a unicorn shifter book –

Sarah: This is amazing!

Thien-Kim: – with a high heat level, and I found one I liked, but the heat level, it’s, is –

Sarah: Not quite hot enough.

Thien-Kim: – not, yeah, not, not quite high enough.

Sarah: This, I’m going to try to air this this week on Friday.

Thien-Kim: Oh, awesome.

Sarah: So if you would like, if people, if you would like, people in the comments, if they know of erotic unicorn –

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: – romance.

Thien-Kim: The only one I’ve read that someone told me about was R. J. Blain’s – I wrote this down – Playing with Fire. So this is –

Sarah: Okay.

Thien-Kim: – unicorn shifter –

Sarah: It has to be in print, right?

Thien-Kim: Because I do send print books?

Sarah: It needs to be a printable book.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: This, okay, this is also really gorgeous.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. It is beautiful. However, I will throw out there, if there’re any authors who have unicorn, erotic unicorn romances and they want to work with me about putting their eBook in, I would be more than happy to talk to ‘em.

Sarah: Oh, yeah, I will include all of your contact information –

Thien-Kim: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah: – in the podcast entry. So this is really cool.

Thien-Kim: And this company that makes the Unihorn –

Sarah: Unihorn!

Thien-Kim: – also has – I didn’t, I didn’t bring it – has a toy that looks like, it’s supposed to look, the, the back of a Cadillac? That tail? But they made it green and blue, so it actually looks like a mermaid tail to me, so I’m like –

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: Wouldn’t that be fun?

Sarah: I am so excited.

Thien-Kim: Sarah’s taking a lot of pictures. [Laughs]

Sarah: There’s going to be so many pictures in this podcast entry, you guys. It’s going to be, like, ninety, ninety miles long, this thing, ‘cause it’s – I mean, come on! Doughnut-flavored Unicorn Spit lubricant. That’s, those are the best combination of words today!

Thien-Kim: Yeah, I’m so, I’ve – this, these two things were, like, on my must-see list at the tradeshow.

Sarah: Unicorn Spit – somebody had a really brilliant idea, and I’m very proud of that person!

Thien-Kim: Right? And the copy is hilarious.

Sarah: Yes, unicorns would be proud if you swallowed.

Thien-Kim: Yes. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yay! All right –

Thien-Kim: Okay.

Sarah: – that’s brilliant. What –

Thien-Kim: So, other things – so there was this company, and, and this is not a good fit for Bawdy Bookworms yet, but they made leather goods –

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: – cuffs –

Sarah: I’m going to put your –

Thien-Kim: – you know, bondage goods, and I had the lady walk me through the whole line, ‘cause, you know, I like the smell of leather, like a good leather purse? That whole booth smelled like a high-quality leather purse.

Sarah: Oh, nice!

Thien-Kim: So good, but, you know, fur-lined cuffs, like, more, you know, more, more experienced BDSM people.

Sarah: You know what you should do? You should pitch a workshop to, like, RT or RWA where you talk about sex education, show off different sex toys, proper usage thereof –

Thien-Kim: [Gasps] That would be so fun!

Sarah: You should so do that, and if you wanted, if you want to do that and you want to put my name on it –

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: – I will totally moderate an interview and ask you questions.

Thien-Kim: I need a Vanna White.

Sarah: I will be your Vanna!

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: I will hold your, I will hold your unicorn horn –

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: – but you should totally do a workshop with this, ‘cause this is astonishingly cool. So, I’m sorry to interrupt.

Thien-Kim: Okay, so –

Sarah: Back to the leather! You have a small paddle.

Thien-Kim: It’s a, yes, it’s a small paddle. I don’t, I think it’s – you know how you get swag when you go to places?

Sarah: Yep!

Thien-Kim: This is like a little baby paddle.

Sarah: That is a little baby paddle.

Thien-Kim: And it’s red on one side and black on the other.

Sarah: It’s very cute!

Thien-Kim: Yeah, and it makes a good –

[Slapping sound]

Sarah: It’s okay, Buzz! It’s okay! [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: Sorry, I didn’t mean to, to –

Sarah: The dog’s like, what’d I do? He doesn’t like it when I, like, knead dough and pound the dough.

Thien-Kim: Oh, no!

Sarah: He’s Buzz the Anxious. This is why –

Thien-Kim: And it’s leather, real leather, smells good.

Sarah: That is really nice leather!

Thien-Kim: Yeah! I don’t –

Sarah: So this is like their little promo item.

Thien-Kim: I think so! After she walked me through all their products, she gave me one of them. Thanks! [Laughs]

Sarah: Either that, or it’s a really funky Christmas tree ornament.

Thien-Kim: Or you can hang it on your rearview mirror in your car.

Sarah: Yeah, don’t get in an accident; that’ll hit you right in the forehead.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: It’s interesting, there’s no branding on it.

Thien-Kim: Yeah! I don’t –

Sarah: Is it –

Thien-Kim: The pack-, the packaging had branding on it.

Sarah: Ah, so this is Rouge.

Thien-Kim: And then they’re a UK brand.

Sarah: So they do leather accessories and goods, so whips, paddles, floggers, that kind of thing?

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: And do they do, like, harnesses and penetration stuff?

Thien-Kim: Harnesses – they didn’t have any in their booth if they did. So people brought a limited selection of products, but they had a lot of things that –

Sarah: I want to see them go through Customs coming in – hi, what are you here for?

Thien-Kim: They probably just shipped it over.

Sarah: Yeah, I’m sure! [Laughs] Let’s not put this in our carry-on. That would be bad!

Thien-Kim: [Laughs] So that was just purely for my education to go through all their stuff and, and to just, you know –

Sarah: Right, ‘cause a leather good –

Thien-Kim: – the leather –

Sarah: – isn’t something you’re going to put in a, in a box.

Thien-Kim: No, it’s, it’s fairly advanced. I mean, this, this paddle is, I would say, is a fairly advanced – though we did have a small crop in the last box.

Sarah: Well, that’s cool.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: All right.

Thien-Kim: So I’m hoping to stretch people’s comfort zones so they can try new things.

Sarah: No pun intended.

Thien-Kim: And you don’t really know what toys you’ll like until you try it.

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: You can hear from friends – ‘cause everybody’s different.

Sarah: Yes, and one of the things that I, I remember writing about this in my second book was that romance is a way for you to introduce new ideas into your sexual knowledge in the privacy of your own imagination. So if you read about something and you’re like, oh, it’s kind of cranking my engine, then you know that that is something that you might be into, but you get to try it out in your own brain.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: You don’t have to, you don’t have to do this with a person or be like, nope, nope, never mind! Nope, this is a bad idea, and I don’t want to do that.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, because, you know, when you’re reading, you’re in the moment and, you know, there’re so many variables, but when you try it –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – in person –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – who knows what’s going to happen?

Sarah: And to, and to quote Leah Koch from The Ripped Bodice: how amazing is it that we have this genre of literature that turns us on?

Thien-Kim: Right?!

Sarah: Like, that’s pretty astonishing!

Thien-Kim: That was my sex ed, honestly, was –

Sarah: Oh, dear.

Thien-Kim: – Harlequin novels –

Sarah: Oh, dear.

Thien-Kim: – [laughs] – and Cosmo, because –

Sarah: Oh, dear! [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: – I’m Asian; we don’t talk about sex in our family.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: My sex talk was don’t get pregnant – didn’t tell me how! – don’t get pregnant –

Sarah: Don’t get pregnant.

Thien-Kim: – and then we didn’t talk about sex. We didn’t even talk about periods. Like, I had to –

Sarah: Oh, dude!

Thien-Kim: – learn that from the, the, you know, in school, they pull – I don’t think they do this anymore –

Sarah: No.

Thien-Kim: – they pull you out. I got to watch this horrendous video where the mom made a, using pancake batter, made a uterus with fallopian tubes –

Sarah: No!

Thien-Kim: – to explain to her daughter and her daughter’s best friend –

Sarah: Nooo!

Thien-Kim: – how periods worked? [Laughs] It was horrifying!

Sarah: Out of pancake batter?

Thien-Kim: Pancake batter! I’m like, this is –

Sarah: This has to be on YouTube.

Thien-Kim: I don’t know!

Sarah: Please.

Thien-Kim: I’ve told people about this, and no one remembers, but that is clearly imprinted.

Sarah: Somewhere, somewhere someone knows about this.

Thien-Kim: Like, why would you make a uterus out of –

Sarah: Why would you use pancake batter? That’s terrible!

Thien-Kim: To – they had a sleepover, and she was making pancakes, so why not? [Laughs]

Sarah: Girls, it’s time for you to know about your fallopian tubes. Oh, hang on, let me get the, get the turkey baster – Bzzt! – Okay, that’s just silly.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. I’m glad that –

Sarah: So –

Thien-Kim: – we’ve come a long way in, in sex ed. I, I hope we have.

Sarah: So you must have had a number of, of women and men in your groups that were like, ohhh! Like you had just shown them the way to easier, shame-free orgasms.

Thien-Kim: I guess? I try to keep – because it, it is a business as well, I try to keep a professional distance. Like, even when I was selling toys at parties, I didn’t share personal experiences?

Sarah: Of course not.

Thien-Kim: And, and partly because I wanted to respect my husband. [Laughs]

Sarah: Right, and also you are, you are explaining to them how they are sexual, not explaining to them how you are sexual.

Thien-Kim: Right, I can say, like, I like this product because it does this –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and I think that’s important because my experience, like, I, I’m pretty picky.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: Because, because I’ve just seen so many different –

Sarah: You’re the person, perfect person –

Thien-Kim: – products.

Sarah: – to curate a sex toy box, then.

Thien-Kim: Right. And now, you know, if people say, oh, I’m looking for this, and I’ll, and I’ll ask them, like, what are you looking for? Do you like penetration? Do you prefer clitoral?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: Instead of just saying, oh, my God, I love the Rabbit! Because it doesn’t work for everybody, right, so – I’m like the sex toy whisperer. [Laughs]

Sarah: Okay, so, the amount of email that I receive that is, hey, Sarah, I like this book with this character and this part, this conflict; do you have more like it? Is what you do for sex toys.

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: That’s awesome! That’s so cool!

Thien-Kim: I think that’s a pretty good skill.

Sarah: You need to do a workshop! Oh, my gosh! Okay, so what else did you bring and put on my coffee table –

Thien-Kim: Okay –

Sarah: – because this is astonishing.

Thien-Kim: I brought this. This is not a new thing, just a new version of it, but I think it’s really cool.

Sarah: Here, I’ll hold your mic.

Thien-Kim: It’s a pheromone-based perfume!

Sarah: Ohhh!

Thien-Kim: And this company has made, these are samples they gave with, I think, the, the packaging. This is a new product, and there’s a Simply Sexy Love version –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – so it’s, I don’t know, more innocent? I don’t know what their branding was, but it’s a lighter scent.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: And I don’t know, if you don’t know what pheromones are, they’re, everyone has natural pheromones that we emit. It’s odorless, but it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – if you run into someone whose pheromones gel with yours –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – that, you’re attracted to them. So –

Sarah: My dog is wearing a pheromone collar right now.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s designed for anxiety, surprisingly enough, but I thought, this is hooey; I’ll try it. It’s, like, twenty-four dollars per collar, and it lasts a month.

Thien-Kim: And it, it works?

Sarah: It works so well that when it starts to wear off, he comes to tell me.

Thien-Kim: Aww!

Sarah: And he’ll start pawing at my leg, ‘cause he knows where we keep the, the –

Thien-Kim: Isn’t science amazing?

Sarah: Science is amazing, and I will do anything to help my dog feel better, so, yeah, pheromone collar totally works for him. So this one is –

Thien-Kim: So that’s the Lust, so it’s –

Sarah: – Lust.

Thien-Kim: – kind of a more woodsy scent, I think. I’m not good with scent – oh, this has bergamot, jasmine, vanilla, and white musk, so that’s the Lust.

Sarah: And then the Simply Sexy Love is jasmine, sandalwood, florals, and a touch of vanilla. Ohhh!

Thien-Kim: Now when I started selling products, you know, back in my twenties, I was real-, really skeptical about pheromones.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: We had a pheromone product then called Pure Instinct, and –

Sarah: That’s a good name.

Thien-Kim: It is! I decided to, to try it on, and I don’t know, we’re probably, I don’t know how old our readers, your, your listeners are, but Love Potion Number 9 –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – same concept, right?

Sarah: Right, right, right.

Thien-Kim: I put some on and not thinking, and I walked into 7-Eleven, and every single man in 7-Eleven – I’m getting a Slurpee – is, like, looking at me, hey, girl, what’s up? And I got in my car; I’m like, what in the world?!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: And that’s when I remembered I was wearing the pheromone perfume. Like, this stuff works!

[Laughter]

Sarah: At 7-Eleven.

Thien-Kim: So just like any perfume, it changes on your own skin, and so when you try any, you know, pheromone-based or not, you want to let it sit on your skin a little while and let it –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – work with your body chemistry.

Sarah: Interesting. I’m, I’m actually picking up, if I just smell the, the, the sprayer, I smell mostly the alcohol. [Sniffs] I don’t smell anything on that one.

Thien-Kim: We can, how about we spray it on this paper, and then you can –

Sarah: Let’s spray it on this paper.

Thien-Kim: I’m, I don’t, I personally don’t wear a lot of perfume because I am very sensitive to the strong scents, but I, I think it’s fun to wear.

Sarah: Yeah, okay. So the Simply, what is this, Simply Sexy?

Thien-Kim: That’s the Love one? Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, this is Love.

Thien-Kim: It’s very light, fruity, kind of fruity, right?

Sarah: It’s, it’s kind of like a fruity, floral, almost like a baby powder scent?

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s making, it’s reminding me of Love’s Baby Soft a lot, which dates –

Thien-Kim: I was just talking to a friend about that.

Sarah: – dates my age quite visibly. All right, let’s try the Lust.

Thien-Kim: I think the sales rep told me the Lust is based off of a, the, a popular Chanel perfume –

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: – which I’m not savvy enough in perfume to, to know.

Sarah: Doing highly scientific tests here, ladies and gentlemen.

Thien-Kim: That’s right.

Sarah: Oh, that is nice! Yeah, that’s much more cedar, sandalwood; it’s, it’s deeper in scent. I like that one.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, you can see why they call it Lust.

Sarah: That smells really good. I like that. Can I wear that? I’m going to wear that.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, go for it!

Sarah: Cool, dude. Oh, if this starts to bother you, let me know, and I will wipe it right off –

Thien-Kim: Oh, you’re fine.

Sarah: – ‘cause I just too late realized that you just said you’re sensitive to smells –

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and I’m hosing myself down with Lust! Literally. Yeah, this is nice!

Thien-Kim: And I’m thinking about putting the Lust in our Val- – so I do seasonal special edition boxes.

Sarah: Of course.

Thien-Kim: It would be good for Valentine’s.

Sarah: Yes, that would be very good for Valentine’s, especially because it, it, well, it also ties into your marketing, because much like the Bawdy Bookworms boxes are custom tailored for your (a) your, your high expectations, but also you try to match people with different things, right? Like, didn’t you try to match certain people – ?

Thien-Kim: Oh, yes, so I match the items with the book. I, actually, I read the books, and I, I have, I’m addicted to Post-it flags, so they’re all Post-it flags –

Sarah: Oh, yes!

Thien-Kim: – and I take notes about different scenes, things they do, things they talk about. So, like, this butterfly number here was from our summer book, M. J. Summers’ book, and there’s a lot of garden scenes?

Sarah: Whoa! Whoooa!

Thien-Kim: So I, so why not get a butterfly toy, for, because there’re so many garden scenes?

Sarah: That is amazing. Okay, I’m just going to have to get a picture of this little butterfly.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs] And –

Sarah: So the, so the butterfly is the clitoral stimulation.

Thien-Kim: Right, and then there’s this bulb part that’s very bendable, and that’s for your G-spot.

Sarah: Wow.

Thien-Kim: So I don’t know if peop-, a lot of people know this, but your G-spot is actually the nerves of your clitoris that are inside your body. Your clitoris is really –

Sarah: Big.

Thien-Kim: – really big.

Sarah: Oh, yeah, it starts from the front, goes down the side –

Thien-Kim: Yeah, and it actually does, like, a Y –

Sarah: – two, two parts go down your legs – yeah.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. So –

Sarah: It’s amazing.

Thien-Kim: – when people talk about G-spot orgasms, it’s, it’s the same nerves, just in a different part of your body.

Sarah: Wow. So this has a really –

Thien-Kim: You press the button at the bottom; it vibrates.

Sarah: Of course it does. Does it light up?

Thien-Kim: Oh, maybe I put them in wrong. Oh, there we go.

Sarah: There we go.

Thien-Kim: And it’s waterproof.

Sarah: And it’s waterproof, and whoa! The an- –

Thien-Kim: Those butterfly antennae go –

Sarah: The antennae, the antennae on that butterfly –

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: – are working very hard. This – heh-heh – this is really cool. Oh, and then there’s, there’s hearts on the, on the shaft part, too.

Thien-Kim: So that box, so I try to come up with fun names for each box, and that box was the Lady Love Garden?

Sarah: Oh, I love it!

Thien-Kim: And it, it comes with this shaving cream which I love; it’s called Coochy Creme.

Sarah: Coochy Creme! Okay.

Thien-Kim: It’s a fantastic shaving cream for your bikini line and your legs.

Sarah: Nice!

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: And this is nice and flexible, too.

Thien-Kim: Yep.

Sarah: This is very flexible. Okay, this is really great. I love it!

Thien-Kim: So I try really hard to customize the products to go with the books, so I have to find, I always look for the book first –

Sarah: Right, you start with the book –

Thien-Kim: – and I read – I feel like I’m back in college – I’m reading and taking notes.

[Laughter]

Sarah: What are you researching? Which sex toys go with this book.

Thien-Kim: I’m like, oh, this scene, yeah, this could work for the, you know, I can imagine – and not all the books have sex toys in them?

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: But I, like, the, the M. J. Summers book, there’s no sex toys in them, but I, I just thought it was really fun, flirty, great for a summer read –

Sarah: Right, of course.

Thien-Kim: – and, you know, what, like, what do I, what do I pair this with? So it, I feel like it’s kind of a cre-, test of creativity to try to figure out what products go with each book that I include.

Sarah: Right, and then the complete package fits together.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: So, what is your, what is your dining room or living room look like when you’re putting these boxes together, ‘cause this is –

Thien-Kim: Well, I have kids –

Sarah: – this is, this is quite a logistical operation to do every time you do a box.

Thien-Kim: Well, it’s funny; I, I always laugh because I take all the product pictures, so I’ve been in my, you know, in my, my “day job” I’m a food blogger, so I’ve been teaching myself photography.

Sarah: So you’re a professional food blogger?

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: Rad!

Thien-Kim: So I’ve been teaching myself photography. It’s like, all right, I’ll just take my own product pictures, so I take it near a window, and I’m in an apartment community on the bottom floor. [Laughs]

Sarah: Not a lot of light there.

Thien-Kim: So I’m like, please don’t let anybody walk by and look into my window while I have all these vibrators out.

[Laughter]

Sarah: What’s going on in her house today? Let’s go visit!

Thien-Kim: Yeah, and usually, I’ve taken my food outside to get better lighting for pictures –

Sarah: Of course.

Thien-Kim: – and people will stop by and say stuff, but I’m not taking these outside.

Sarah: Why are you hanging a vibrator from a tree? That’s incredible. All right, so what else do you have here?

Thien-Kim: Well, one thing we –

Sarah: Oh, I, I completely forgot your question!

Thien-Kim: Oh, yeah!

Sarah: So what does it look like when you’re putting the boxes together?

Thien-Kim: Oh, so I do it, so I have kids, and we’re still a small operation, so my husband, we joke that he’s the vice president of shipping and receiving, and he helps pack the boxes, so we’ll just spread everything out on the table –

Sarah: Assembly line.

Thien-Kim: – like, turn, you know, turn on a movie or something.

Sarah: Because the boxes, I mean, you gave me one last time we had coffee. You open it up, the tissue paper is perfectly folded; there’s a little bow. I mean, it’s beautiful!

Thien-Kim: I want it to be a present to yourself!

Sarah: You do a really beautiful job with the packaging!

Thien-Kim: Great. It’s, it’s kind of weird enough to buy sex toys from someone you don’t know, so you might as well, like, create a –

Sarah: Yeah!

Thien-Kim: – a really great experience for people when they open it up.

Sarah: That’s lovely. That is really lovely. All right, what’s, what’s the, what’s the green thing?

Thien-Kim: So this was in our, so they did room drops at – so room drops are when you go to conferences and they put swag in your room while you’re out –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – at a party or something.

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: And this was one of the room drops. I don’t, I’m not familiar with this company, it’s Oxballs, but it’s a –

Sarah: Ox –

Thien-Kim: – giant cock ring.

Sarah: – balls.

Thien-Kim: Want to open it up?

Sarah: Oxballs Meat Bigger Bulge cock ring. Oh, my God. All right, I’ve got to open this. This is –

Thien-Kim: So I think this company is geared more towards gay men? And what I love about being at this show is I learned so much about the different products for different, you know, different couples and different people. And one thing that I posted in our Facebook group, and I posted updates in our Facebook group during, during the week, and this person showed – isn’t it –

Sarah: Oh, boy, oh, oh!

Thien-Kim: It’s silicone. It’s a giant, giant cock ring.

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh, my gosh! This is –

Thien-Kim: You know what it looks like? When you get in a car accident and they put that foam thing around your neck.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Look at it; it’s a cervical collar! Different cervix! [Laughs more] Oh, my God!

Thien-Kim: Oh, it’s called the Meat Bulge.

Sarah: Of course it is. Of course it is. I just texted a picture to my husband. He’s going to be like, what the hell?!

Thien-Kim: So I bet you it’s, ‘cause it’s so –

Sarah: Oh, and it says, in case you’re not sure, it says Meat on one side. So it’s this sort of soft, sort of flexible –

Thien-Kim: It said it’s made out of TPR, so it’s thermoplastic – forget what the R stands for. So it’s, it’s a kind of plastic.

Sarah: Yes, and it’s kind of squishy, and it almost reminds me of that goo that kids are obsessed with playing with –

Thien-Kim: Oh.

Sarah: – only a little bit thicker? Slime –

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: – glue, floorp, whatever the hell it is? I’m, my kids bring home –

Thien-Kim: I think this is meant to go around the testicles, ‘cause it is so big.

Sarah: Yes, that has to go around the balls and the testicles.

Thien-Kim: So.

Sarah: I’m so ready for my husband to be like, uh, okay.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs] You’re texting him at work all these pictures?

Sarah: On his phone. I don’t, I, I won’t get him in trouble. [Laughs] Oh, my God, he’s like, okay? That is incredible. So is this something – nope, the big part goes in the –

Thien-Kim: That’s what she said.

Sarah: Your, your, your misal –

[Laughter]

Sarah: You’re, Thien-Kim, you’re misaligning the meat here! This, this, this is the part where the meat goes!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Oh, my God!

Thien-Kim: Look, I’ve only had coffee this morning, in case anyone’s wondering.

[Laughter]

Sarah: This is amazing! Wow! So this was something that was dropped in your room – surprise, here’s a cock ring. Oh, and of course, from the company Oxballs, Meat Bigger Bulge cock ring, this color: Army.

Thien-Kim: Army.

Sarah: So I’m presuming they also have Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard?

Thien-Kim: So if you like, for Duck Dynasty fans?

Sarah: Yeah. Coast Guard would be orange, I’m guessing. This is really cool! Not a medical device. No kidding. What would you – safe with most lubes; oil based not recommended. Wash with warm, soapy water; air dry. This, this is really very cool, and yet utterly hilarious.

[Laughter]

Sarah: This is – yeah.

Thien-Kim: Now I have, I did include a toy for guys, and it was called jackets, and it’s a, a sleeve for men to masturbate in, or you could help your partner masturbate in it –

Sarah: Right, right, right.

Thien-Kim: – and it did not go over well, so I think, even though some of my subscribers do have partners –

Sarah: They want stuff for women, not for men.

Thien-Kim: Yeah, they want stuff for them.

Sarah: So you’re not going to put the big Meat Bulge Oxballs –

Thien-Kim: Probably not, because I, I would say that we have a fifty/fifty share of single versus –

Sarah: And couples, right.

Thien-Kim: – couples, yeah.

Sarah: That’s brilliant, and also high-larious. All right.

Thien-Kim: And I brought you some other, like, tasty samples. Not –

Sarah: Tasty samples! What have we got here?

Thien-Kim: So we, there’s a warming gel that warms up when you blow on it, so –

Sarah: Oh!

Thien-Kim: – there’s strawberry flavor – I gave you options: strawberry –

Sarah: Warming edible gel.

Thien-Kim: – caramel apple. I have not tasted these, so I can’t attest to how well, how they taste –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and hot butter rum.

Sarah: Oh, my gosh! So are the, are you going to use any of these in a –

Thien-Kim: You can hang on to these. These are just samples they gave us at the show.

Sarah: Oh, thank you! Wow!

Thien-Kim: But how these work is you put them on the skin, you rub it in, and then when you breathe on it, it heats up.

Sarah: Wait, I used to much of the Lust, and I smell really bad now. Or not –

Thien-Kim: Oh, no! [Laughs]

Sarah: – smell bad. I just, I can smell the, the scent, so if I start to bother you, I’m really happy –

Thien-Kim: You’re totally fine right now.

Sarah: I, yeah.

Thien-Kim: I promise I’ll tell you.

Sarah: Okay, good, ‘cause now I feel bad, ‘cause I feel, I feel guilty inflicting the scents on you.

Thien-Kim: I’m, oh, no, I’m used to the scent because I had to pack it in my carry-on and –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – not carry-on, but my checked bag.

Sarah: Warming edible gel: hot butter rum, strawberry, and caramel apple. Wow. This is really interesting. So how does this work?

Thien-Kim: So you rub it on your skin, and I wouldn’t recommend these as a lube. You know, normally they’re pretty sticky?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: But they’re just fun. You can, like, imagine, like, putting it on the neck, and then your partner, like, breathing on your neck, and then, like –

Sarah: Oh!

Thien-Kim: – like, kissing it off, licking it off?

Sarah: Massage onto a small area of the body. Blow on it to get warm, then lick and kiss it off. Mix well. Cruelty free, paraben free, gluten free, and vegan. Oh, that’s cool! Wow. So have you tried any of these?

Thien-Kim: I have not tried those flavors.

Sarah: Do you want to try one of these?

Thien-Kim: Sure! I’ll let you decide.

Sarah: Oh, oh, the pressure! Okay, hot butter rum, strawberry, or caramel apple. Let’s try hot butter rum, see what this is like.

Thien-Kim: It’s going to make think of my, the shots I used to do in college.

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: And these are little travel packs; they’re a little bit bigger than a package of condoms –

Sarah: Yes, they look a little bit bigger.

Thien-Kim: – and I like these because this is a good way to try a flavor without investing in a giant bottle –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – because you can’t, like, gift your friend your, you know, unwanted sexual lubricants or whatnot. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, that’s not going to work. All right, so. No unpleasant aftertaste, so –

Thien-Kim: So –

Sarah: Pass this to you.

Thien-Kim: So you blow on it. We should, I should’ve brought baby wipes or something.

Sarah: Oh, it does get warm when you blow on it!

Thien-Kim: And then, how does it taste? Let’s see.

Sarah: Oop. It does get warm when you blow on it! Don’t lose it underneath your watch.

Thien-Kim: Isn’t that fun? And it’s not, it’s not burning hot. It’s just kind of –

Sarah: No, it’s just warm.

Thien-Kim: – a pleasant warming.

Sarah: And it’s overly sweet.

Thien-Kim: Ooh, it, it tastes like a butterscotch.

Sarah: It tastes like butterscotch candy.

Thien-Kim: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: All right, that’s not bad!

Thien-Kim: So these are fun. You know, people will think, like, because I have all these products that we use them all the time, which we don’t, ‘cause we’re married with two small kids, so we’re lucky if we –

Sarah: You’re lucky if you get to take a shower –

Thien-Kim: Right?

Sarah: – by yourself.

Thien-Kim: But it’s good to just change things up, do something fun.

Sarah: So that’s sort of like foreplay –

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: – accessory toy.

Thien-Kim: And I think many people skip over foreplay.

Sarah: Yeah, well, especially if they have small children; they don’t have a lot of time. I went through that.

Thien-Kim: Right, right. And there’s actually, I didn’t bring any, but there’re all kinds of gels for your clit –

Sarah: Really!

Thien-Kim: – that help get things moving so that if you don’t have time, you can just jump right in.

Sarah: So it’s like a similar, similar to that; it’ll make –

Thien-Kim: Right, there’s –

Sarah: – blood flow and, and heighten nerve reaction.

Thien-Kim: Right. It just depends on what kind. So some have peppermint oil, so it gives you that tingly –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – but some have products that increase blood flow, which is really what you want.

Sarah: Right, because it, it’s, it is a –

Thien-Kim: It makes you more sensitive.

Sarah: Right, and it is, it is similar tissue to a, to a penis in that –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – it has, it’s vascular. Right? Vascular tissue.

Thien-Kim: Yes. So you engorge your, your clit. And there’re same for guys.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: You know, I, I joke that guys don’t really need that much help?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: They’ve had more time – it’s external; they’ve had more time to play with it and figure out what they like –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – while we women, we need a little extra help.

Sarah: We’re not encouraged –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – we’re not encouraged to, to do things like that.

Thien-Kim: So, we, I’ll take all the help we can, you know, we can get.

Sarah: Yeah! No kidding! This is really cool! All right, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about while we were here?

Thien-Kim: I think that’s – I mean, there’s a, the travel kit.

Sarah: Oh, you brought me a travel kit that, right, so, so wait. In here we have gelato tiramisu personal lubricant.

Thien-Kim: So it’s all travel size. It comes in a, a travel bag. That way you can toss it in your suitcase and have some lube and tasties and a vibrator to go with. And this, oh, here’s, this is one of the clitoral gels.

Sarah: Oh, it’s little itty bitty!

Thien-Kim: Because you don’t need a lot.

Sarah: Right. Buzzing, tingling serum, twelve-volt clitoral stimulant. So it’s actually a little tiny tube of –

Thien-Kim: Including one drop.

Sarah: – of the cream, and, like, zing!

Thien-Kim: That’s the serving size.

Sarah: Apply a few drops to the clitoris. Sensation will begin in three to five minutes. Effects last up to forty-five. Wow.

Thien-Kim: So it’s like our Viagra.

Sarah: Right! Man. There’s a whole bunch of samples in here! So this is your travel kit. Do you sell this as well?

Thien-Kim: I do. This is a new thing I’m –

Sarah: I love it. So you have Candy Land cinnamon bun body icing, strawberry bon-bon Glide, tiramisu personal lubricant, cleaning wipes! You’re the, you’re so considerate! Look at you! Sliquid organic botanic-infused stimulating O gel, another clitoral arousing – oh, and a tickler! Does that go around your, a penis?

Thien-Kim: It goes around a penis – it’s really stretchy – or it can go around the small bullet that’s in the, the bag.

Sarah: Oh, that’s adorable!

Thien-Kim: So if you want to add some little speed bumps to your play –

Sarah: Oh, it looks – okay, this is going to be really –

Thien-Kim: Go ahead, open it!

Sarah: I can open it?

Thien-Kim: Yes.

Sarah: Okay. Wait, did you bring this for me?

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: Oh, thank you! That’s so cool of you! I appreciate that! All right, this looks like, this looks like, this is kind of like the Statue of Liberty’s crown.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: Look at that thing.

Thien-Kim: It’s super soft, very stretchy.

Sarah: Love this so much.

Thien-Kim: It’s funny because guys’ll see it, and they say, that’s too small, and then you show them.

Sarah: You know nothing! So it does really stretch – whoa! It does stretch.

Thien-Kim: And it’ll fit around the bullet that’s in the, the Fireworks To Go kit.

Sarah: So, oh, my gosh, and there’s a little bullet vibe. I love that you include cleaning wipes. That’s just, that’s just so kind! I love it.

Thien-Kim: You know, I read, when I read sex scenes in romance books and they fall asleep right after, I’m like, come on!

Sarah: I know! No, no, no! UTI, UTI! You’ve got to do the post-coital urination!

Thien-Kim: Or you, like, you need the bedside towel, right?

Sarah: Right?

Thien-Kim: So you don’t sleep in the wet spot. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah! Come on! Especially if they’re using a condom. They’re, they’re so –

Thien-Kim: Yeah, you have to dispose of the condom.

Sarah: Disposing of the condom, and yet, I know there’re some authors that complain about including descriptions of condoms? I want to know that they’re using a condom. Like, I need to know that. ‘Cause if there’s no mention of it I’m like, uh, people?

Thien-Kim: That’s such a personal preference. We’ve talked about this in the Bawdy Bookworms Facebook group. Some people don’t care, and some people, like, want to see it every time.

Sarah: But I’ve never heard anyone say – except for maybe writers – oh, my God, I hate it when there’s a condom in a sex scene. Like, it’s never bothered me?

Thien-Kim: I like it when they do; I think it’s important?

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: But I’m not bothered if they don’t do it, as long as –

Sarah: I just presume that they – you know what I really hate? You know what I really, really hate? All right, so he is poised for entry, right?

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: He is maybe even an eighth of a way up the valley, right?

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: And there’s nothing, no, nothing, and that’s when they’re going to have the I Swear I’m Clean conversation.

Thien-Kim: Oh, God!

Sarah: How many times have you read that? It makes me so mad. Like, that is not when you have that conversation.

Thien-Kim: No, you have that before.

Sarah: If you’re going to have that conversation, have it at a completely different time, because if, if, if you’re in the throes of, of, of –

Thien-Kim: You’re not going to care!

Sarah: – valley spelunking, there’s going to be like, you’ll say whatever you want to –

Thien-Kim: Valley spelunking.

Sarah: Like, seriously! That’s not the time for the By the Way, I Swear I’m Clean. Like, how do you know?

Thien-Kim: And one of my pet peeves is when they flush the condom.

Sarah: Nooo!

Thien-Kim: I’m like, don’t flush the condom! Your toilet’s going to clog up! This is –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Nooo.

Thien-Kim: I suck at fantasies, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: Plumb-, plumbers everywhere are now very sad! Oh, my gosh. Plumbers everywhere are very sad now.

Thien-Kim: Just put it in the trash!

Sarah: That’s terrible!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Okay.

Thien-Kim: So I don’t put condoms in my, any of my kits because I figure everybody is particular about condoms, and you can run to your local whatever store and grab ‘em.

Sarah: And I’ve noticed in the past few years when I’ve gone to CVS or Rite-Aid, the condom selection has grown –

Thien-Kim: It’s huge!

Sarah: – no pun intended. No –

[Laughter]

Sarah: Seriously, I’m going to have to do a full count of all the things we say that are unintentionally, you know, bawdy. This is going to be a very bawdy podcast. So the, the lubricants, the stimulating gels, the types of condoms, there are so many more now.

Thien-Kim: I saw kegel balls there at my Target!

Sarah: What?!

Thien-Kim: Yes!

Sarah: Get out! Wow!

Thien-Kim: They were a nice brand, too. I’m like, wow! These are nice kegel balls!

Sarah: Somebody in the Target buying department is, is –

Thien-Kim: There was only one left, so I don’t know –

Sarah: Oh, yeah, clearly it’s a popular item.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: Have you ever included something like that?

Thien-Kim: Yes. So we had a book where we read Cecilia Tan’s, her trilogy, Slow Surrender –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – and the hero is a glass artist, and he makes glass toys, so I included glass Ben-Wa balls.

Sarah: Ooh, that’s cool!

Thien-Kim: They were gorgeous! They had flowers inside them? Beautiful.

Sarah: Oh, wow!

Thien-Kim: They came in a velvet case.

Sarah: So what was the reader reaction? What did people think?

Thien-Kim: They thought it was really awesome. And some people were a little afraid, tentative when it comes to glass –

Sarah: Uh-huh?

Thien-Kim: – but, you know, it’s the same way they make Pyrex?

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: Same method, so it’s really strong, so unless you throw it against, you know, the wall, so.

Sarah: Yeah, don’t throw your sex toys against the wall.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: It’ll be bad. Or your Kindle either, or your digital reader or your phone.

Thien-Kim: Glass is fan-, I am a huge fan of glass, and first of all, they’re gorgeous, beautiful. If you didn’t, I didn’t have kids, you could display them in a cabinet.

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: But they are nonporous, so you’re not going to have to worry about any bacteria staying on them.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: They’re super easy to clean, and then you can do temperature play.

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: So you can chill it, you can run it under warm water and have a warm toy against your body.

Sarah: Oh!

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: There’re a lot of options!

Thien-Kim: Yep!

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: So it’s really fun.

Sarah: Okay! All right, so, is there anything else you want to show, ‘cause I have, always have my question of what you want to talk about reading-wise.

Thien-Kim: Okay. I think we’ve pretty much gone over everything, so.

Sarah: We have gone through the buffet here. This is really incredible.

Thien-Kim: Literally!

Sarah: Thank you for bringing all of these toys! Is this like a mini-version of one of your parties?

Thien-Kim: I used to carry a carry-on size suitcase of toys to my parties.

Sarah: Wow. Do you ever miss doing it?

Thien-Kim: A little bit. I miss meeting the people. You know, we, I work from home, just like you, so it –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: I’m an introvert normally –

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: – but sometimes you miss, like, talking to people –

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: – interacting.

Sarah: Yes.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: Start a podcast; helps a lot.

Thien-Kim: It does. And I miss talking to – this is why I love our Facebook group – talking to women about products, and everyone would do ordering one on one, it’s all confidential –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – and people would really spill, you know, their, their problems they were having in the bedroom.

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: And I’m, I was like their bartender. They, these are things they couldn’t even tell their friends.

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: They’re so ashamed –

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: – that these, that they couldn’t have an orgasm or their husband –

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: – was having problems with erections, and that’s what I like the most. Like, saying, okay, let’s try this, see if works.

Sarah: This is fixable, and you are not the only person with this problem.

Thien-Kim: Right! This is not – I remember at every party, I always talk about how eighty percent of women cannot have an orgasm through penetration alone, and –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – people were shocked. Like, of all ages, all generations, shocked, because that’s not what we’re taught. That’s not what we see –

Sarah: Yep.

Thien-Kim: – on TV and in books.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: That was my big thing I had to get out there. I’m like, you’re not alone.

Sarah: And there’s nothing wrong with you.

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: You’re normal, and there’s nothing wrong with you.

Thien-Kim: And I love that there’s – when I started, I mean, that was, what, fifteen years ago, and there were not a lot of resources for women –

Sarah: No.

Thien-Kim: – and sex, and now there’s, you know, the, the OMG Yes website. You know, I have a friend who’s a former professional dominatrix, and she does a lot of education.

Sarah: That’s cool!

Thien-Kim: She’s fantastic. If you want to have her on a podcast, I will connect you two.

Sarah: Yes, please! That sounds amazing. Yes, please, that sounds cool.

Thien-Kim: All right, I’ll make it happen.

Sarah: Yes! Awesome!

Thien-Kim: She’s really fun.

Sarah: I want to ask her about that thing that happens in so many novels where the guy can sense inherently that he’s a, that she’s a submissive.

Thien-Kim: Oh! [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s, like, my least favorite trope. Like, what, is she wearing I’m a Submissive perfume? Is there like a, is there like a tell that I, people are doing that I don’t know?

Thien-Kim: Oh, so many of those, the guys are alpha-holes, and I –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – kill, I can’t do alpha-holes.

Sarah: Not a fan, me either.

Thien-Kim: No.

Sarah: Nope, nope, nope.

Thien-Kim: I like my little nerdy guys.

Sarah: Thank you! Smart and sexy and nerdy.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: All right, so tell me about what you’re reading, ‘cause I warned you in advance, and you brought a list –

Thien-Kim: I brought a list because –

Sarah: – which we have now coated with pheromone perfume!

[Laughter]

Sarah: This list is going to be very pheromone-tastic.

Thien-Kim: Okay, well, I read pretty widely. I grew up reading science fiction and Harlequins, so my tastes are all over the place. What I’m reading right now, I read, I usually do one audio and then a, I’m a promiscuous reader, so I have several books on tap.

Sarah: One of us! One of us!

Thien-Kim: That’s right! So audio, I found in our library, it’s Children of the New World. It’s a spec fiction anthology –

Sarah: Ooh!

Thien-Kim: – and they’re all in the same world, so it’s really cool. I think you would like it.

Sarah: Ah!

Thien-Kim: And then I’m reading the second book in The Unlikeable Demon Hunter by Deborah Wilde. So her, I love this; it’s so fun. If you like Buffy?

Sarah: Yeah?

Thien-Kim: Her tagline is Bridesmaids meets Buffy, with a taste –

Sarah: Ohhh.

Thien-Kim: – with a dash of the seven deadly sins.

Sarah: And you’re read-, you’re on the second one.

Thien-Kim: The second one. So the first one, and the first one is on KU, Kindle Unlimited, if you have that.

Sarah: Ooh! And it’s audio and, and eBook.

Thien-Kim: I haven’t done the audio, but she has both.

Sarah: There is audio. That’s cool.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. So basically, the main character is Jewish, and her, her twin brother is supposedly part of this, like, brotherhood that kills demons, except they, they assumed that he was a demon hunter because it’s all male, and it turned out to be her.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Thien-Kim: And she hasn’t, he’s been training all his life, and she’s, like, you know –

Sarah: Whatever.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: This is dumb.

Thien-Kim: So now she has to, to get in and, like, learn how to do all this stuff. And it’s all guys. And of course, you know, there’s this one guy, like, she’s totally into.

Sarah: Right. So you like it? It sounds like something I would really like.

Thien-Kim: It’s really, it’s fun and smart. I, give it a try!

Sarah: All right, I’m going to do that.

Thien-Kim: Okay. And next on my list is Eloisa James’ Wilde in Love, so I have that. But I did like the Midnight Riot that you recommended when we met for coffee. Oh, my God, I love it so –

Sarah: Oh, the, Midnight Riot by Ben Aaronovitch?

Thien-Kim: Yes, but you know the – [laughs]

Sarah: The audio.

Thien-Kim: I kept imagining Idris Elba reading to me when I was listening to this book!

Sarah: And there’s nothing wrong with that. Does that guy have a voice?

Thien-Kim: Oh, yes!

Sarah: Oh, my God.

Thien-Kim: And I don’t normally, you know, think a narrator’s voice is sexy, but I could go with this one.

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, yeah. Well, my husband started reading them because I told him about them.

Thien-Kim: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: I was like, I really think that you’ll like this, and then I started reading it, so we ended up reading them at about the same time. We would finish and sort of outpace each other at different times –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – and then we’d talk about it, so when the, there’s a short story that’s available for free from Audible –

Thien-Kim: Okay, I’ll look for it.

Sarah: – and we were, I was like, let’s try the short story, because that way we can see if we like the audio, and we’re both sitting up here, and I had the speaker on the window sill, and he’s like, this guy is really good, and my, my husband’s not that into audio books? He’s so talented!

Thien-Kim: I was sitting on the train listening to it, and I just started cracking up, and –

Sarah: Yep! People are looking at you.

Thien-Kim: I don’t laugh out loud often during books, but, yeah. So I texted my husband like, you have to download this! We listen to books together too –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and that’s actually how I got him into reading romances. So we would listen to Tessa Dare’s Spindle Cove series –

Sarah: Oh, I love that series!

Thien-Kim: – in tandem. So he’d listen on his way to work, and I’d listen at home, and he’d come home like, did you get to this chapter? We have to talk about what just happened!

[Laughter]

Sarah: What did he think of it?

Thien-Kim: He thought it was really fun, and, you know, he’s like, what is, you know, why is this happening? I’d say, well, this is kind of how the genre works, so I, you know, I explain a few, you know, things for him along the way –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – so, so it’s just like a rom-com. You know, certain things have to happen at certain times.

Sarah: It was bothering me that I couldn’t remember the narrator’s name for the Midnight Riot. His name is Kobna Holdbrook-Smith. I knew the Smith part, but it was Kobna Holdbrook I was blanking on. He’s the narrator for listen to, for Midnight Riot.

Thien-Kim: And then I plan on rereading The Flirtation by Tara Sue Me, which is our book from the Hurts So Good box, our fall box?

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: Because we’re going to have our virtual book club discussion for it in the Facebook group soon, so I want to refresh.

Sarah: Ooh! Yeah, of course. You’ve got to have all your details.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. ‘Cause I, I, it’s like, come up with the discussion questions and then just see what happens from there.

Sarah: Right, of course. That’s cool.

Thien-Kim: Yeah. And just some other books I’ve read: The Refugees by Viet Thanh Nguyen, so that’s short stories. He –

Sarah: Viet Thanh –

Thien-Kim: Viet Thanh Nguyen? So he’s a Vietnamese-American professor. He won the Pulitzer? He won something for the –

Sarah: So the T-H is not actually a thuh sound.

Thien-Kim: It’s a, it’s a hard T.

Sarah: Oh!

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: This is very helpful, thank you!

Thien-Kim: I, I don’t know, ‘cause, so, a lot of Vietnamese is influenced by French because of the French occupation?

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: So you’ll see a little bit of that in the language too.

Sarah: That’s interesting! Thank you. That’s cool.

Thien-Kim: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So what was The Refugees about?

Thien-Kim: They were short stories just about Vietnamese-Americans, and they were all, the theme was ghost stories, so ghosts in your pasts –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Thien-Kim: – literal ghosts.

Sarah: Ooh. That sounds good.

Thien-Kim: It was, I mean, I got chills listening to it. It’s very good –

Sarah: Ooh.

Thien-Kim: – and he reads it, which is nice because with the, you know how things like, this is Audible.

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: This – so that person butchered his name, like –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Thien-Kim: So I thought, thank God the author is reading this, because for me, you know, just, you know, I’m a big proponent of diverse books because I have, I couldn’t find any when I was growing up, and to hear someone read a book in English and say ma, which is mom in Vietnamese, like just part of the normal language, it just –

Sarah: Yeah.

Thien-Kim: – it just felt really good.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s like a –

Thien-Kim: It’s normal.

Sarah: – it’s like a way of infusing –

Thien-Kim: Right.

Sarah: – with something very personal.

Thien-Kim: Because when my kids visit my parents, we speak a mix of English and Vietnamese. Like, my kids don’t speak that much Vietnamese, so that’s what we hear. That’s what we heard growing up –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and to see it, see it in a book and hear it in an audiobook was really cool.

Sarah: Oh, that, that makes, and that makes it very intimate.

Thien-Kim: Yes. Even though –

Sarah: It’s a, it’s a very instant emotional connection.

Thien-Kim: – most of the stories were about immigrants –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – people who were born in Vietnam, and I was born in the States, so –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – I mean, I feel, like, very, very American. My experience –

Sarah: Especially with all the sex toys.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs] Oh – please, I hope my parents don’t listen to podcasts; I’m good.

[Laughter]

Sarah: I won’t tell them!

Thien-Kim: Yeah. But that’s what I’ve been reading. I haven’t read a whole lot recently, just because we’re, I’m prepping for the holiday season.

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: And audiobooks help with that.

Sarah: Oh, yes, very much.

Thien-Kim: If you like spec fiction, The Book of the Unnamed Midwife?

Sarah: Ooh.

Thien-Kim: It’s, it takes place in a near future where some disease basically wipes out almost all women.

Sarah: Ah!

Thien-Kim: And it’s about how people – if you, there’s a lot of trauma in there, so if you have any triggers about, you know, rape and –

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Thien-Kim: – sexual abuse, probably not a good book, but –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – I thought it was really fascinating to see how people, men reacted when there was a lack of women, right –

Sarah: Right.

Thien-Kim: – and the, the parity is not there, and then the main character, the unnamed midwife, she was a nurse, and she, her mission was to go around and give women birth control so they didn’t have to bear children, no matter, whatever situation they were in –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Thien-Kim: – and she dressed as a man to stay safe, so there’s a lot of gender fluidity involved?

Sarah: Ohhh.

Thien-Kim: And after so long she’s like, I don’t feel like a woman anymore, and I’m not a man. Like, how does this affect my identity?

Sarah: I’m in, I’m in this liminal gender.

Thien-Kim: Yeah! So I thought, like, all of that was really fascinating.

Sarah: Wow! That’s cool! Thank you!

Thien-Kim: So that’s on audio as well. So there’re two books; I am hoping she’ll come out with a third book.

Sarah: That’s so cool.

Thien-Kim: So Meg Elison is the author.

Sarah: Thank you! Is there any last thing you want to make sure you mention or any advice you want to give to anyone listening?

Thien-Kim: I think we should talk about sex more with our friends, and if you find –

Sarah: Yes, I think we should talk about sex more.

Thien-Kim: – toys or products that you like, like, tell your friends! Just like, oh, my gosh, I just tried this new ice cream; it was so good? Do the same thing with your vibrators. Like, we all need to know.

Sarah: Yep. And everyone likes good orgasms.

Thien-Kim: Yeah.

Sarah: It’s true.

Thien-Kim: Very true.

Sarah: To pair with your gelato.

Thien-Kim: [Laughs]

Sarah: I’m a big fan of gelato.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. I want to thank Thien-Kim for bringing samples and so many cool toys to show me. This was really fun to record. If you are thinking, I would like to see pictures of all these things, you should totally go to smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast. This podcast entry for episode number 273 is going to have all of the pictures. It was really fun to do this.

And if you are thinking, ah, this Bawdy Bookworms box sounds like something you should try, yes, yes, you totally should, or you should give it as a gift or buy one for yourself and a friend. I recommend it, and so do Elyse and Redheadedgirl and Amanda! Now Orville is about to crawl behind the sound box; he also agrees that you should check this out. So I will have links to Bawdy Bookworms, or you can find them at bawdybookworms.com, and we have a discount code for you guys. If you use code SMARTB, S-M-A-R-T-B, all capital letters, you get free shipping up to six dollars on any order, so you should totally find yourself some Bawdy Bookworms boxes.

Now this episode of this podcast was brought to you by The Secret of the Sheikh’s Betrothed by Felicitas Ivey, which is out now at dreamspinnerpress.com. It’s a contemporary, male/male romance, part of the Dreamspun Desires line, where the men are hot, the romance is rocking, and there’s always a Happily Ever After. You can find more of Felicitas Ivey’s work at dreamspinnerpress.com. In this particular book, there is a billionaire and a Bedouin girl, each with a shocking secret. Billionaire Fathi al-Murzim is a workaholic businessman who is too busy running his family’s companies to even think about marriage. Too bad he never told his grandfather that he’s gay, because grandfather has just announced a childhood betrothal to a Bedouin girl that Fathi has never heard of before. Ikraam din Abdel was raised as a woman by his avaricious older sister, who did not want him being their father’s heir. He’s never thought that he would be married and is surprised when his sister informs him of his betrothal. When Fathi and Ikraam meet, they are drawn to each other in a manner that neither one of them expected. As the plans for their wedding progress, they both realize they need to tell each other the truth, but can they, with both cultural taboos and family pressures to deal with? You can find out more at dreamspinnerpress.com, and I will have links to this book in the podcast entry on smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

We also have a transcript sponsor, and we’re doing something a little new here, so I hope you will let me know what you think. Today’s podcast transcript is sponsored by Anna Argent’s The Taken series. You can read all about it at annaargent.com, and we have a special sneak preview of the audio from one of her books in just a moment. So here’re the details: if you are a Christine Feehan or Shannon K. Butcher fan and you love an intriguing paranormal romance, Argent’s series belongs on your reading list.

A leader, an inventor, and a strategist, three women hold the key to survival for a dying people, and the men sent to find them will stop at nothing to ensure their safety. On Loriah, there are but a few rare children born every generation, each one gifted with exceptional abilities. When a hostile army, the Raide, threatens these children with annihilation, the Loriahans whisk them away to Earth, where they hide in plain sight among people who know nothing of their existence. Years later, and after countless battles on Loriah, defeat by the Raide seems inevitable. A band of elite scouts is sent to Earth to return the Taken to their birthplace and turn the tide of war, but these scouts are not alone. The enemy has learned of these secret weapons. Raised as humans with talents and gifts that they cannot explain, the Taken hold Loriah’s fate in their hands. It’s the scouts’ mission to ensure that the Taken cooperate, but in the case of three special women, even the simplest of plans gets very complicated. How do you convince these women to sacrifice everything for a world they don’t remember? The answer lies in the hearts of the three men sent to protect them.

Be taken to a world filled with love, lust, and an enticing dose of magic that keeps readers clenching their teeth in anticipation. You can learn more about The Taken series at annaargent.com.

Now, I have a few more things to tell you, but we have a special sneak peek of the audio version of The Longest Fall by Anna Argent at the end of this episode, so in a moment you will get to hear a special preview of what the audiobook sounds like. It’s really cool. I’m very excited to try this, and I hope you let me know what you think, so stay tuned for that.

The music that you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. This is “Eiggbound” from Shed Life by the band Sketch, and you can find them on Amazon and on iTunes or wherever you buy your music.

I will absolutely have links to all the books and, of course, to bawdybookworms.com in the podcast entry.

Now typically, I end with a bad joke, and I will not make an exception. So here’s the bad joke, and then we get to the super-cool sample of the audiobook:

How do you organize a space party?

How do you organize a space party? Well, you planet!

[Laughs] You don’t know how much fun I have searching for these, for these bad jokes. It’s a really entertaining part of my day.

Okay, it’s time for the cool thing. Are you ready for the cool thing? Here is a special sneak peek of the audio version of The Longest Fall by Anna Argent, and if you like what you hear, check out all of Anna Argent’s contemporary and paranormal books at annaargent.com.

And I will see you right here next week. Have a great weekend. Let’s listen to a sample:

[music]

[sample of The Longest Fall]