145. An Interview With Jaye Wells, Part 2, And Listener Email

Transcript

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Dear Bitches, Smart Author Podcast, June 12, 2015

 

[music]

Sarah Wendell:’ Hello there, and welcome to episode number 145 of the DBSA podcast.’ I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books.’ With me today is Jaye Wells for part two of our interview. ‘Last week we covered part one, which was all about strong female characters and why we describe them as such.’ This week we’re going to talk about MFAs, her work in progress, urban fantasy writers, the future of urban fantasy, and what happens when urban fantasy writers get together to combine worlds and write stories in their combined universes.’ The short answer being, it’s really cool!’ And coming out next year.

I also answer some listener email about choosing what to review, new releases, how you find them, and how to find books that you want to read.’ Basically, find your catnip and find more of it.’ How do you do that?’ Well, it’s easier and easier, because the internet is awesome.

This podcast was brought to you by InterMix, publisher of Cara McKenna’s Drive It Deep, the new prequel e-novella to her gritty and sexy Desert Dogs series.’ Download it on June 16th.

The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater, who is having brain surgery, so, Sassy, kick cancer’s ass for me, please.’ This is the Peatbog Faeries.’ This is their new album.’ I’m going to tell you that in the beginning ’cause I’m so excited.’ I will have information about this music and where you can buy it because a new Peatbog Faeries album is reason for celebration, right?’ Right!’ Obviously.

And now, without any further delay, on with the podcast!

[music]

Sarah:’ Well, I have an additional question.

Jaye:’ What’s that?

Sarah:’ I might have to turn this into two podcasts, ’cause this is such an interesting conversation, and I don’t think I can post one that’s, like, an hour and a half.’ People would be like, oh, my God, Sarah, enough of your voice!

Jaye:’ [Laughs]

Sarah:’ So you are in an MFA program right now.

Jaye:’ I am.

Sarah:’ While you’re doing your MFA, are you also looking at these issues of, you know, character and, and, and strength and race and gender and all of those things?’ Are those things that have, that you have to factor into your MFA?

Jaye:’ Yes.’ What’s really interesting ‘ so, the MFA I’m doing is through Seton Hill, which is in Pennsylvania, and it’s a, it’s a low-residency program, so I do most of my work at home, and then one week a term I go out to campus for a residency.’ And what, what’s great about these residencies is it’s, like, a week where you just take workshops and do critique workshops, and so the professors are giving workshops on craft and the industry, but then also, in your fourth term of the program you take a class in teaching, and so all the students who took that class also teach modules, and so you have these great kind of diverse modules on everything from, like, writing weaponry to crafting scenes to dialogue, but last term a woman gave a, a workshop on avoiding gender stereotypes.

Sarah:’ Ooh!

Jaye:’ And so she, and it was a really great, I was really excited about it, ’cause it created this wonderful discussion, and you know, there were male writers in the case that were like, you know, I feel like I try to make, you know, to portray women and, you know, not be racist in my writing, and then I get yelled at.’ And so it created this really great discussion about that in, in an academic setting where we could really kind of drill down ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – and talk about the whys and hows and things.’ In person and not through Twitter, you know.’ Twitter’s the worst for conversations.’ So, yeah.’ I mean, it is definitely a factor, and I love it because, even though I’ve published ten novels and stuff, there’s always more to learn, and I’ve never studied writing academically.’ And so it’s, I’m learning whole new elements of the craft and also, you know, learning from younger writers and seeing what they’re writing, and the, the, the way that genres are changing, and a big part of that discussion is writing diversely.’ So it’s very cool.

Sarah:’ What are, what are the things that you’re working on?’ ‘Cause I know when you, we were signing at RT, you said you were working on a horror novel.

Jaye:’ I am.’ So, my thesis for the MFA program is a horror novel.’ I call it my Stephen King and Alice Hoffman take a vacation in Appalachia book.

Sarah:’ Somebody just totally is listening to this and sat up and went, give it to me now!

Jaye:’ [Laughs] And so, I’m about halfway through it.’ I’m trying to finish the draft this summer so I can submit it.’ But that’s been the other great thing about the MFA is it’s, it’s, it’s this great little incubator where I can experiment with new stuff and see what’s working and what’s not and challenge myself to try new things.’ You know, because when you’re, when you’re published, I mean, you kind of end up on this treadmill where it’s working deadline to deadline, so you don’t have a lot of breathing room to stop and think, you know, do I want to try something different?’ You know, and because, you know, if you take a year to write a novel that’s a different genre, I mean, you could really be setting your career behind a couple of years, you know, so.’ So it’s kind of a cool way to, to experiment.’ So yeah, so I’m working on the, the horror novel.’ We’re kind of waiting for me to finish that before I write the next Prospero’s War book.’ And I’m doing some short fiction.’ I’m going to have a short story collection out this summer, and then a novella, a new novella in my Meridian Six series, which is a dystopian vampire thing.’ I’m just doing lots of different stuff; it’s really fun.

Sarah:’ Awesome!’ What is the anthology?’ The novella?

Jaye:’ Oh ‘

Sarah:’ Or is the novella in an anthology, or is that two separate things?

Jaye:’ No no no.’ So, okay, so, the novella, I, I have a series that I started; I’m self-publishing them, so I’m doing novellas, and it’s a, it’s a dystopian vampire world where vampires kind of took over the world and enslaved all the humans.’ Super uplifting, happy time, and it’s about a girl named Meridian Six who is kind of leading the rebels to rise up against the vampires, so the second novella in that series is coming out this summer, and then I’m doing a collection of short stories.

Sarah:’ Ooh.

Jaye:’ And then I’m also working on a short story for the Urban Allies anthology, which is really cool.’ So it pairs up urban fantasy authors, and we write stories that combine our two worlds.’ So ‘

Sarah:’ Uhh, cool!

Jaye:’ Yeah.’ So I’m writing a story with Caitlin Kittredge and, from her Black Dog series, and then I’m writing, and then my half of the story is Sabina Kane.’ So, she has, like, a, a hellhound, and then I have Giguhl, the demon cat, so we’re kind of combining those.’ [Laughs] But there are lots of cool people in that anthology.’ Stephen Blackmoore, Charlaine Harris, Christopher Golden ‘ a ton of really cool people, so.’ And I can’t remember what the release day ‘ I think it’s out next year, though.’ So there’s all sorts of cool stuff happening.’ I mean, everybody, you know, the industry’s so in flux, but it’s also great because it’s a wonderful time to try new things.

Sarah:’ It is.

Jaye:’ See what works.

Sarah:’ And you have options to publish a lot of short fiction that hasn’t really been as wide of an, an opportunity before.

Jaye:’ Oh, yeah.’ Well, and it’s great, too, ’cause, like, my Sabina Kane series is done.’ Like, I wrote five books, but now I can still go back and visit that world and give the readers who miss that series new stories without the commen, commitment of starting a whole new series arc for a novel, you know?’ It’s like, oh, let me tell you about the time this happened, you know, in that world, so it’s pretty cool.

Sarah:’ That’s awesome!

Jaye:’ Yeah!

Sarah:’ One last question for you, ma’am.

Jaye:’ Yeah.

Sarah:’ I know you’ve got an MFA so you’re busy and you’re writing, but have you read anything that you’re really excited about?

Jaye:’ Oh, boy.

Sarah:’ Isn’t that the worst question?’ People are like, Sarah ‘

Jaye:’ Yeah.’ You know what, I just read ‘

Sarah:’ – why’d you ask me that?

Jaye:’ ‘I just read and gave, well, a couple months ago, I gave a cover blurb for Wes Chu’s Time Salvager?’ It’s, like, time travel.’ A guy is a time salvager, who kind of travels back in time to salvage, like, artifacts and stuff from the past to bring them to the future, but he kind of ends up going rogue.’ And so it’s kind of like a thriller, and there’re romantic elements in it, and that is out in July!’ July 7th.

Sarah:’ Ooh!

Jaye:’ Time Salvager by Wesley Chu, and it is from Tor.’ So that’s a cool one.

Sarah:’ [Laughs] My, one of my, one of my reviewers, Amanda, was at BEA this past week and was like, I just could pretty much read the entire tour catalog and, you know, spend all of my money.

Jaye:’ Oh, yeah, they’re doing some great stuff.

Sarah:’ It’s so cool, though, that the, that, I think that the, the audience for fantasy and the audience for romance seem to be inching closer to one another.

Jaye:’ Well, that was what was really interesting as an urban fantasy author, right?’ Because I was going to romance cons, like RT and stuff, and then also going to the, the, you know, comic cons and whatever ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – and the, the audiences are really different, but they all kind of came together for urban fantasy ‘

Sarah:’ Yep.

Jaye:’ – and they all found different stuff in it that was really cool, and I think that’s why it’s so ex-, I mean, urban fantasy’s having issues right now, but, but I don’t think we’ve seen the end of, like, cross-genre stuff, and I, I’m really excited to see how authors, what new genres people mix and see how that, that works.

Sarah:’ Do you see the urban fantasy audience moving on to other things, or are they still looking for urban fantasy, even though there’s not as much of it being published?

Jaye:’ [Sigh] Well, that’s the thing, ’cause when you talk to the readers, they can’t get enough of it ‘

Sarah:’ Yep.

Jaye:’ – but the publishers aren’t buying it, and I think that there are a few reasons for that.’ One is that there were a lot of urban fantasies published ‘ too many ‘

Sarah:’ You don’t say.

Jaye:’ Too many.

Sarah:’ We, we depleted the world’s supply of leather pants and midriff tops ‘

Jaye:’ [Laughs] Yeah, so ‘

Sarah:’ – and the urban fantasy belt is sold out.

Jaye:’ Right, so, so, and, on top of having too many authors, they’re all writing series.

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ Readers just cannot keep up with that many series, so they would have, like, their handful of authors that they read, and they’ve got, you know, five-, seven-, ten-book series each, so you just, there’s not, there’s, it’s like too much supply, and so no, no authors could really get a foothold, other than the ones who were already pretty established when it took off.’ So publishers think it’s a bad bet right now, and, I mean, I can’t blame them.’ I mean, I, I’ve seen sales really decline.’ And there are other issues, too, happening, but I think readers still want it, and I think what will happen ‘ I’ve been talking to some reviewers, and they’re, they’re thinking that we’re going to start, that the cycle’s going to be pretty quick ‘

Sarah:’ Oh, yes.

Jaye:’ – but they probably will call it something else.

Sarah:’ Oh, yeah.’ I think, I think that there’s definitely ‘ [laughs] ‘ there’s definitely a lot of room for that argument.’ Because readers can grab and read and, and glom things so much faster, what, what Jane at, at Dear Author called in another podcast the burnout cycle ‘

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ – of getting into a genre and then moving on to something else happens faster and faster.’ Like, we just, we’re just feeling like maybe this is the time where the billionaires are starting to decline, and now we’ve got stepbrothers, which, what’s that about?

Jaye:’ [Laughs]

Sarah:’ That can burn out quickly.’ As quick as possible.’ As, as fast as that needs to burn out, I am down; that’s great.’ But we, we cycle through what we’re into so much faster, and we have better names for it now.

Jaye:’ Right.

Sarah:’ Because, like, when you were talking about the, the books for readers that are, excuse me, the books that, that feature characters that are older in, in, than typical heroines, that are in their mid thirties or mid forties or older, there’s no name for that.’ It’s contemporary or fantasy romance with an older person.’ What does that mean, seventy-five?

Jaye:’ Hmm.

Sarah:’ What does that mean?’ Like, drawing on retirement?’ How do you define older?’ Is that like strong?’ It’s a weird word.’ So we need, I think readers need better terms to describe the specifics of what we’re looking for.’ And you can see that, sort of, with the creation of the idea of New Adult.

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ New Adult is, well, it’s usually contemporary romance with slightly younger protagonists and an assload of angst.

Jaye:’ Right.

Sarah:’ Okay, got it.’ I know what that is, and I know whether, whether it’s not, whether it’s for me or not, but if I say contemporary romance, you know, you could be talking about, you know, Debbie Macomber, and I could be talking about, you know, Tiffany Reisz.’ Those are two totally different things.’ [Laughs]

Jaye:’ Right.

Sarah:’ Very different things.’ The more that readers, I think, can define what it is that they’re trying to read and develop a language to describe it to one another.’ The downside is that publishers and booksellers have to catch up.

Jaye:’ Well, and the thing is, what’s interesting is, you know, indie publishing is completely the curve on things, because these authors are able to find a niche with a subgenre and be very successful.’ I mean, if you were traditionally publishing those books, they would be considered failures, right?’ But an indie publisher can, can find, can make a good living off a smaller, you know, demographic that wants a very specific type of story, and I think that ‘

Sarah:’ Yes.

Jaye:’ – that what’ll be interesting is seeing how that kind of bleeds upward.’ I don’t even want to say upward, ’cause that makes it sound like traditional’s above indie, but ‘

Sarah:’ Yeah.

Jaye:’ – kind of, they kind of cross over and create this ‘ maybe, you know, publishers will change a little bit.’ Maybe.’ They take a long time to change, but, but, but the other thing that’s interesting is, because people can be, put in these very specific search terms online if they’re buying eBooks or print books online ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – and so you don’t have the, the strict history, you know, romance, fantasy, science fiction.’ You know, you can have these crazy, very specific subgenres that are easier to find now.’ So it’ll be interesting to see what happens.’ I think that’s what everybody’s feeling right now.’ It’s like, let’s see.

Sarah:’ Let’s see what happens.

Jaye:’ Yeah.’ So ‘

Sarah:’ I mean, I think only, on-, only good things can happen from connecting readers to books as, as quickly and as easily as possible.

Jaye:’ Well, and it’s become a much more democratic process.’ I mean, it’s not publishers saying, this is the book that you’re going to read now.’ This is, you know, we’re propping up this title, and this is the one we want you to read, and we’re going to put all our advertising behind it.’ Now readers are really deciding what they want, and they’re making those books successful, and I think that’s wonderful.’ But there’s some shifting that has to happen, you know.

Sarah:’ It’s absolutely true.

Jaye:’ So, I don’t know, but I, I mean as an author, it’s, it’s kind of scary but also very exciting, because I know, like, this horror novel I’m writing, if I can’t find a publisher for it, I’ll self-publish it, so my readers can still see it, you know, and I wouldn’t have had that opportunity ten years ago.

Sarah:’ And you also have the ability to describe things in languages that readers understand, like ‘

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ – I completely get Stephen King and, did you say Alice Hoffman?

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ – go out in the woods in Appalachia?’ Yeah, I understand what that means.’ I get that, and that’s, you know, that’s, that’s not something that would have happened ten years ago either.

Jaye:’ Right.

Sarah:’ And it’s, it’s, it’s more important now, I think, to be able to define what your work is similar to rather than differentiating it?

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ I think that readers are pretty savvy and know that different books are different from one another, and it’s, it’s also always the readers who notice the overt similarities when someone has lifted or borrowed from another writer, but we also understand that books are similar and different, so if you can say, my books are like this, then that reader’s going to understand what you’re talking about.

Jaye:’ Right!

Sarah:’ It’s not a bad thing to be similar to other things.

Jaye:’ Not at all.’ I mean, I remember when I, when my son was born, I was staying at home, and he would go down for naps and I would take a romance novel out on the patio and I would read.’ That was my escape, you know ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – that was my Me time, and so I would go to the library every Monday, and I would check out seven romance novels, and my favorite thing was when the library had If You Like Judith McNaught ‘

Sarah:’ [Laughs]

Jaye:’ – you may also like these people.’ And so I discovered so many authors that way, because, you know, once you like a certain kind of story and a certain type of voice you can’t get enough of it, and you want to read everybody who writes like that, and that’s how, you know, I mean, you know, you and I’ve had so many conversations about any book that sells is good for all of us, and so ‘

Sarah:’ Yes, that’s the Law According to Jaye Wells.’ [Laughs]

Jaye:’ Yeah, and so, and even, you know, if you like my books, you might, you would like Caitlin Kittredge’s book, or you would like Stephen Blackmoore’s book, or you would like Kevin Hearne’s books, you know.’ And I happily promote all of them, and they all happily promote me, ’cause we all see that, you know, a thriving readership that’s getting, that’s happy with the stories they’re getting is great for the entire industry, ’cause we’re convert- ‘ we’re not competing with each other, we’re competing for attention.

Sarah:’ Yep.

Jaye:’ So.

Sarah:’ And if you are able to convince readers there are more things that you will like to read, that’s good for everyone, ’cause you’re increasing the audience, but you’re also increase-, increasing the number of books that people can recommend to one another.

Jaye:’ Yeah, ’cause listen, I mean, I’m, I’m with Orbit, which a division of Hachette ‘

Sarah:’ Yep.

Jaye:’ – and I am very aware that Stephenie Meyer’s success made it so that they could take a chance on a new author like me back in 2008 ‘

Sarah:’ Yep.

Jaye:’ – you know, and so these, and, and also, I can’t tell you how many readers have come to me and said, I never read before I read Twilight or before I read 50 Shades, and now I can’t get enough reading, and that’s how I discovered your books was I liked their books, and then I went and looked for other books.’ I mean, these things are very important.’ It’s important.

Sarah:’ Well, it’s like the internet.’ I can’t go to another blog and say, hey, none of you should be reading this site!’ You should be reading mine, and just me!’ Like, (a) that would never happen, and (b) that’s silly!’ Because we now have lots of devices that help us read lots and lots of things as much as we want to.’ I always find it sort of hilarious in a very sad way whenever there’re these statistics about how young people don’t read, and I’m like, the young people I know read everything.

Jaye:’ Mm-hmm.

Sarah:’ They read texts, they read email, they read messages ‘

Jaye:’ [Laughs]

Sarah:’ – they read books, they read fanfic, they read manga.’ They all read it on the same device, and you may not see it as reading, but those are text-formulated entities, and they are reading them, I promise.

Jaye:’ Right.

Sarah:’ So there’s no way to say, no one should read this other thing; you should only read me. ‘I don’t, I don’t know anyone who’s successful saying that as a writer.’ And that’s just ‘

Jaye:’ Right.’ If they, if they do say that, they don’t have any friends, ’cause ‘

[Laughter]

Jaye:’ I mean, it’s really, it’s really a, it’s such a small world, and, you know, everybody knows everybody else, and, you know, we’re all, I’m so happy when, you know, great writers get successful.’ I mean, yes, I want to be successful too, but, you know, seeing my friends have success gives me hope.’ If I, if they can, if, you know, they can do that, I could do it too ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – you know.’ It’s just, you’ve got to work hard.’ I think we’re very wise.

Sarah:’ Do you have any books or anything that you want to talk about, to promote while you have the listening audience?

Jaye:’ Well, I would love people to check out my Prospero’s War series.

Sarah:’ Yeah!

Jaye:’ It is, like I said before, it’s, it’s, I pitched it as The Wire with wizards?’ It’s like a gritty cop drama with magic, and it has been optioned for TV.

Sarah:’ Wha-!’ I did not know that!

Jaye:’ Yesss.

Sarah:’ That’s awesome!’ Congratulations!

Jaye:’ I mean, we’re not, we, we’re still trying to sell it to a network, but, yeah, Universal optioned it, and in, in cooperation with Blumhouse, which, they did the Paranormal Activity movies and Whiplash, and then, so, you know, they’re out pitching it to channels right now, so if you start reading it now and it gets made into a TV show, you can be one of those people who’s like, why did they ruin the books with the TV show?

Sarah:’ [Laughs]

Jaye:’ ‘Cause we all feel that way, but ‘

Sarah:’ Yeah.

Jaye:’ – they won’t ruin it.’ I really trust their team.’ They really, like, every conversation we’ve had, they really get what I love the most about this series.’ You know, strong ‘ competent, I mean ‘ female character ‘ [laughs] ‘ you know.’ There’s a big conversation about addiction in our society and, you know, I don’t know.’ It, I, I really love this series, and I would love for people to check it out.’ The first book is Dirty Magic, the second book is Cursed Moon, and the third book is Deadly Spells, and all three of those are out, so.

Sarah:’ Cool!

Jaye:’ Yeah!

Sarah:’ Is this, is it a trilogy?

Jaye:’ No.’ I’m, I’m, eventually my goal is to write seven.

Sarah:’ Ooh!

Jaye:’ Because each book, so the, the magic in the book is based on alchemy ‘

Sarah:’ Mm-hmm.

Jaye:’ – and so each book is based on a different alchemical process, like, the themes of the book and the crimes, so there are seven major steps in alchemy, so I want each book to represent that.

Sarah:’ Ah, cool!

Jaye:’ Yeah!

Sarah:’ And then there’s a larger mystery that’s happening behind, behind that that goes through all of those books.

Jaye:’ Yeah, so each book is a specific crime.’ Like, they’re, you know, somebody put a new potion on the street, so they’re trying to figure out who did it, and that’s a complete arc in each book, but then there’s relationship stuff between each book.’ And a lot of it ‘

Sarah:’ Oh, you mean, there’re, like, feelings and stuff?

Jaye:’ Yeah!

Sarah:’ [Laughs]

Jaye:’ Like, Kate’s past and her relationship with magic.’ She, at the beginning of the series, refuses to do any magic, which is, I kind of, you know ‘ nobody’s ever commented on this, but her name is Kate Prospero, which is from, a, a nod to The Tempest, which is ‘

Sarah:’ Yeah.

Jaye:’ – Prospero was the magician who gave up his magic, so.’ Anyway, so she, she starts out not doing magic, and then through the course of, of being put on the special assignment, she kind of has to face her relationship to magic and how she uses it and things like that, so that’s really the arc, and some stuff about her past comes out, so.’ You can, you could pick it up in the middle of the series and, like, get the full story, but of course if you start at the beginning you get all the cool in-between stuff, too.

Sarah:’ Awesome!

Jaye:’ Yeah!

 

Sarah:’ Can I say thank you again to Jaye Wells, ’cause I’m going to.’ I really enjoyed our conversation, and I know many of you tweeted and talked about this particular episode from last week, and I hope you enjoyed this one just as much.’

There are a lot of things to be said about why we keep describing characters as strong female characters and what that means, so if you have ideas and you want to give me your opinion, I would love to hear it.’ You can email me at sbjpodcast@gmail.com.

And speaking of email, I have some, and I’m going to share it with you, because I know you want a little bit more podcast if you’re walking your dog or on the treadmill or hanging out doing things where you’re listening to podcasts.’ Drive safely.’ Don’t look at the screen while you’re driving.

This first email is from Colleen, and she asks a number of questions that I’m going to answer one after the other:

‘Hello Sarah,

‘The baby is finally sleeping, the big girls are in bed, momma got her glass of wine and my house is quiet.  Quick, now that I’ve jinxed it, let me tell you that once again, your podcast has been eerily aligned with my life lately.  For instance, in my car today I tried to play the new DBSA podcast and got really pissed off that my internet’refused to let me have it!’ Grrr!’ Sulking, I switched over to another favorite that I knew had fresh episodes, Pop Culture Happy Hour, and lo and behold THERE YOU WERE!’ I was so happy to hear NPR say they are hosting a Summer of Romance that I squeed right there in the car.  Speaking as someone who birthed an 8+ lb baby not 6 weeks ago, squeeing has become a treacherous activity…’

Sarah:’ Having also done such things, I totally hear you.

‘Anyhow, I loved the chat you had with the PCHH ladies.  So much laughter and good book noises!  It was an excellent example of the instant camaraderie that often develops between romance readers.  I recently joined The Old School Romance Book Club (run by Sarah MacLean) on Facebook and my goodness those ladies just make my day!’ I have so much love and laughter and sharing of good reads because of this group of strangers and I LOVE it.  It was great to hear you share some of the magic of your site over the airwaves.’

Sarah:’ Well, thank you!

‘I have a couple of more serious questions that I’d like to pass on to you, too.  I’ve been saving them up for a quiet evening since I couldn’t quite manage to text this much which nursing the baby.

‘1: How do the Smart Bitches decide what to review and what does that process look like?’ I’m curious about how you handle that side of your site.  Books, movies, tv shows, dino porn,…it’s such an eclectic mix!’

Sarah:’ Well, to be honest, we review and talk about what we want to review and talk about.’ If something sounds interesting, usually one of the posse, Carrie or Elyse or Amanda or RedHeadedGirl, will say, I’ve just found this thing!’ Can I talk about this thing?’ And my theory is, we haven’t run out of room on the internet, and we haven’t run out of room to talk about the things that we’re passionate about, so if you as a romance reader are interested in this thing, chances are there’s another romance reader who’s into it too, so now we have a wider selection of topics.’ We talk about knitting and historical cooking.’ Carrie has a column of kickass women in history.’ Amanda is running the RITA reader challenge, where we review every RITA-nominated book before the RITAs are announced in Ju-, in July.’ Yes, July.’ But when it comes to deciding what we want to cover, we cover what we’re really interested in talking about and what we want to talk to other people about.’ So it’s an evolving process.’ I don’t have a formal list of rules.’ Lot of the time, we’re all flying on Seat-of-the-Pants Airlines, and I am a frequent flyer of that particular mode of travel.

Next question:

‘2: Awesome Books.  Not romances per se, but during your chat with Caroline Linden (who’s latest release Love in the Time of Scandal I am reading for Eloisa James’ book club) she mentioned reading those old erotic texts.  I know other authors have flashed their book shelves full of resource materials, like regency fashion plates or etiquette manuals.  Where do people find these?  Are there certain libraries that are more known for these types of materials?’ Or do you just throw yourself on the mercy of your local librarians?’ Or is the powerful Google/Amazon combo the way to go here?  I’d rather not buy if I don’t have to.  The history nerd in me just wants to get my grubby little hands on some of this stuff out of curiosity!’ I suspect it would not all be available to purchase either.’

Sarah:’ The answer is actually all of the above.’ Certain museums, for example, the Metropolitan Museum in New York and several museums in England, have made their collections and catalogs available digitally, which makes for really awesome online reading and also the loss of many hours of productivity.’ Google Books also has many, many options for you to look at things that are in the public domain that you can have a, have a deep, deep dive into history.’ Old magazines, things like that.’

Another two options that came to my mind immediately are the Two Nerdy History Girls blog and Twitter feed.’ twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com is actually romance novelists Loretta Chase and Isabella Bradford, and they tweet and post things that are fantastically interesting to look at.’ Plus, have a look at Pinterest.’ There are a ton of old Regency fashion plates.’ Once you link to those in Pinterest, that will take you to the source, and then from the source you’re down the rabbit hole.’ Maybe you shouldn’t do either of those things’then again, maybe you should.’ I don’t know.’ [Laughs] I hate to tell people to go down the rabbit hole.’ Here, you should go to this site.’ It’s going to cost you twenty-five hours of your life, but it’s worth it!’ If you’re looking for those things, many of them available online for free.

Next question:

‘3: Rachel Aaron: 2k to 10k!’ I’d settle for 0k-2k at this point (did I mention I have an infant?’ And two older daughters?)’ I am definitely buying her book and it was another episode that convinced me you must somehow have my brain wired to your planning boards.  How did you know exactly the blog I needed to hear?!?’ It took me three listening sessions to finish it, but I loved every minute of it.  It even inspired me to break down and buy How to Train Your Dragon 2 for my kiddos.  Holy crap I needed a spoiler alert/trigger warning on the parental death in that one, but the point where Dad stops Mom and says, ‘We’re a team.’ but then totally follows it up with ‘What do you want us to do?’ instead of stepping right in to lead the charge?’ YES!!! <<swoons>> I loved it!’ Rachel recommended Banewreaker by Jacqueline Carey.  I’d just like to put my vote in for the first 3 books of her Kushiel series.  The world building is so wonderful and rich, and you really get to follow Phedre’s [SW:’ Fee-drees?’ Feh-drees?’ Fee-drees.’ I’m guessing it’s Fee-dree, but I could be wrong] development from a child into a woman with all of her emotional needs.  Throw in a healthy dash of BDSM and some really emotionally intense sex scenes…I re-read this at least once a year…It is just so good, and an awesome cross over for fantasy/romance lovers.

‘So, now that I have gotten out all my stored up questions and my glass of wine is empty….and the baby just snorted, I’ll sign off and say thank you again for given us all such a fun place to share our opinions and joy.’

Sarah:’ From Colleen.’ Thank you, Colleen!’ I hope I answered some of your questions, and I apolo-, apologize that I couldn’t get to all of them, but thank you for writing.’ I appreciate it, and I hope the baby slept a really long time.’ When you finally get the three or four hours of sleep at a time, it’s, like, life-changing.

I have one more message, one more email.’ You ready?’ Here we go:

‘Hi Sarah and Jane!

‘I have a question I’m hoping you (or maybe your listeners) can help me with. ‘I want to know how to find books to read. ‘That might sound like a stupid question, but I always struggle with it.

‘How do you find romances that push your buttons, with cop heroines or dragons or an Irish setting or a hero with a beard or any of the other million things you might look for in a book?

‘I read a bunch of romance review blogs, and I do get lots of great book recommendations that way, but blogs tend to review newer stuff, and since I’ve only been reading romance intensely for about 5 years (and review blogs for even less time), I know I’m missing great older books. ‘I have also used a tool at my library called NoveList which lets you search for books by lots of characteristics, and that works sometimes, though it’s not detailed enough in many cases. ‘But beyond that, I’m lost!

‘Are there forums or sites where readers can give each other recommendations? ‘Other tools readers use to search for what they want? ‘And what about upcoming releases? ‘I know next to nothing about the romance publishing industry. ‘How do readers find out about what’s going to be coming out (or maybe what’s just newly released) without having to stumble upon it on a review blog? ‘Are there sites or publications that talk about upcoming releases?

‘I’m hoping you can offer some tips and tricks, because I hate knowing there are books I’d love if only I could find them.

‘Thanks for the podcast and for everything you already do to help novices like me find what they love!

‘M’

Sarah:’ Okay, M, do not worry, you are not alone in this problem.’ The first thing that you need to do is identify what it is that you like.’ Now, I know that you mentioned a couple of things that push your buttons, but you were giving examples, so I don’t know if those are just examples of things that have been mentioned or if those are the things that you really like, like, you like cop heroines and dragons and Irish settings and things like that.’ Once you identify what it is that you like, either start with those characteristics or start with the books that contain them.’ What you’re going to do is you’re going to start with the individual book that contains a lot of your catnip ‘ and believe me, identifying your catnip isn’t easy; it’s okay if you don’t get it right the first or second or third or fourth time.’ I’m still discovering some of my catnip, which is fabulous, but frustrating when you want to find things and you can’t really articulate what it is that you want.’

Once you’ve identified some of your catnip and discover a book that has some or most of it, go online.’ One good source for you, which is a little controversial but is still a good resource, is Goodreads.’ Find that book and see what else is like it, according to Goodreads’ algorithms, which are obviously swayed by many things, not the least of which that they’re owned by Amazon.’ But once you find a book on Goodreads, you can look at some of the reviews.’ The nice thing about Goodreads reviewers is that they often have very descriptive shelves.’ When you find the shelves, that functions like a tag that tells you some of the elements that that particular reviewer is trying to collect in once place.’ So you might find a shelf that’s hot heroes with a beard, or cop heroines who are also dragons, or just dragons.’ If you find more dragons, I need to know.’ But anyway, my own selfish needs aside, that is a good place to start in terms of finding what you want to read.

In terms of finding upcoming releases, there’re a lot of resources for that.’ There’re places like NetGalley and Edelweiss if you’re part of those, but those are often for reviewers, and I’m not sure how many assets are available for you if you just sign in and register.’ That said, most publishers have catalogs, and they list by month, or sometimes by week, what they’re releasing.’ Amanda did an entry about finding new releases, and I will link to it in the podcast show notes or podcast entry, but one last thing:’ ask your librarian.’ If you know that there is a romance-friendly librarian, and I hope that you have one, they can usually help you.’ Or finally, email me!’ Or talk to me on Twitter!’ Or email me and talk to me on Twitter!’ Tell me what it is that you like, and I can usually find or suggest books that are like that, and if I don’t know, I can ask other people, and they will know, because if there’s one thing romance readers like to do, right after reading books, is we like to tell other people about the books that we’re reading.’

The other thing is that you mentioned that you’re already reading romance review blogs.’ Well, finding the reviewers whose tastes align with yours is often even more useful than reading a whole bunch of different blogs.’ Certainly you’re going to find out what, what’s new or what people are talking about or what books are coming out that people who cover new, new releases are going to be discussing, but when you find a reviewer online whose tastes are very closely aligned with yours, that’s something to pay particular attention to, because whatever that person likes, there’s a good chance you’ll like it too.’ Or it could be the opposite.’ I have a couple people who say they love every book that I really dislike, and they want me to keep up the consistent good work, which, okay, sure!’ Reading all of the different romance blogs is a great way to get an introduction to everything that people are talking about, but if you want to really align your selection of books to your tastes, begin noticing which reviewers at which places have tastes that closely line up with yours.’ That’s a very good tool that tends to develop on an ongoing basis.

So those are my suggestions for you:’ Goodreads, librarian, ask people like me or other reviewers on Twitter who often give suggestions.’ We all like to share about what books we are really enjoying.’ Jane does the same thing, so please don’t be shy and feel free to ask.’ And thank you very much for writing!

[music]

Sarah:’ And that is all for this week’s podcast.’ I hope you enjoyed the rest of the interview with Jaye Wells and the wee bit o’ listener mail.’ Future podcasts will include me, Jane, Julie James, Jen Lois, Joanna Gregson, sociology, romance, RedHeadedGirl, and other nefarious things that I’m planning because, well, I’m evil like that.’ MWAHAHAHA.’ If I was really awesome, I’d give myself vocal effects, but I won’t assault your ears that way.

The music that you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater, and if you are listening to this on Friday, June 12th, send her some good vibes because she’s having brain surgery, and you know, it’s brain surgery.’ Hopefully, she kicks the tumor’s ass.’

This is a new album from the Peatbog Faeries.’ Yes!’ I know, it’s so exciting!’ This is called Blackhouse.’ It is brand-spanking-new, it came out on May 24th, and this track is called ‘Spiders.” If you like Peatbog and Faeries and Peatbog Faeries, you should buy this, ’cause Sassy says it’s all awesome, and, well, she’s right, ’cause she knows.

This podcast was brought to you by InterMix, publisher of Cara McKenna’s Drive It Deep, the new prequel e-novella to her gritty and sexy Desert Dogs series, available on June 16th.

If you want to respond or got questions or you have ideas or you want to know what’s going on and what we’re doing and who are we and why are we talking all the time, you can email us at sbjpodcast@gmail.com.

But in the meantime, wherever you are and whatever you’re doing, on behalf of Jaye Wells and all of our lovely listeners and Jane and myself, we wish you the very best of reading.’ Have a great weekend.

[awesome new music]