This week, we talk about the DABWAHA tournament, what books we wanted to be in the tournament that didn’t make it, and the origins of the tournament long long ago. And in a shocking turn of events, Jane and Sarah disagree about NA, YA, and Contemporary romance.
We also talk a little bit about ARCs, and what Jane’s read recently. FYI, trigger warning for a discussion of rape fantasies starting at about minute 36:00.
❤ Read the transcript ❤
↓ Press Play
This podcast player may not work on Chrome and a different browser is suggested. More ways to listen →
Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:
If you like the podcast, you can subscribe to our feed, or find us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows!
❤ Thanks to our sponsors:
❤ More ways to sponsor:
Sponsor us through Patreon! (What is Patreon?)
What did you think of today's episode? Got ideas? Suggestions? You can talk to us on the blog entries for the podcast or talk to us on Facebook if that's where you hang out online. You can email us at [email protected] or you can call and leave us a message at our Google voice number: 201-371-3272. Please don't forget to give us a name and where you're calling from so we can work your message into an upcoming podcast.
Thanks for listening!
This Episode's Music
Our music is provided by Sassy Outwater. This podcast features “Celtic Frock” by a UK duo called Deviations Project, which features producer Dave Williams and violinist Oliver Lewis – they have their own Wikipedia page. This is from their album Ivory Bow. You can find Deviations Project on iTunes, Amazon, or wherever music is sold.
Podcast Sponsor
This podcast is brought to you by InterMix, publisher of Trust the Focus—the first in a new romance series featuring two friends, Justin and Landry, on a post-college summer road trip.
With his college graduation gown expertly pitched into the trash, Justin Akron is ready for the road trip he planned with his best friend Landry— and ready for one last summer of escape from his mother’s controlling grip. Climbing into the Winnebago his father left him, they set out across America in search of the sites his father had captured through the lens of his Nikon.
As an aspiring photographer, Justin can think of no better way to honor his father’s memory than to scatter his ashes at the sites he held sacred. And there’s no one Justin would rather share the experience with more than Landry.
But Justin knows he can’t escape forever. Eventually he’ll have to return home and join his mother’s Senate campaign. Nor can he escape the truth of who he is, and the fact that he’s in love with his out-and-proud travel companion.
Admitting what he wants could hurt his mother’s conservative political career. But with every click of his shutter and every sprinkle of ash, Justin can’t resist Landry’s pull. And when the truth comes into focus, neither is prepared for the secrets the other is hiding.
Download it March 17th!
Transcript
❤ Click to view the transcript ❤
[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 133 of the DBSA podcast. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and with me is Jane Litte from Dear Author, and today it is all about the DABWAHA. We talk about the tournament of romance novels. We talk about the books we wanted to be in the tournament this year that didn’t make it and the origins of why we do this thing every year. And in a shocking turn of events, we disagree about something. I know, it’s very, very surprising.
We also talk a little about ARCs – advance reader copies – and Jane discusses a book that she’s reading. Beginning at about minute 36:00, she starts talking about the plot of a book that may be a trigger warning for those who are sensitive about discussions of rape because the book she’s talking about is Asking for It, which Erin Galloway talked about in a previous podcast as well. I wanted to make sure to put that in the intro so that you would know if this is something that you don’t think you want to listen to, we start talking about minute 36:00 or a little bit after that.
This podcast is brought to you by InterMix, publisher of Trust the Focus, the first in a new romance series featuring two friends, Justin and Landry, on a post-college summer road trip. Download it on March 17th.
And this week’s podcast transcript is brought to you by Forever, publisher of Once and Always, the sweet and sexy novel by Elizabeth Hoyt, writing as Julia Harper.
The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater. I will have information at the end of the podcast as to who this is.
And now, without any further ado – and yes, it’s pronounced da-bwa-ha – on with the podcast!
[music]
Sarah: So it seemed to me that with our podcast audience growing, which it is, which I think is very cool, that a lot of people may not know what this is.
Jane: Well, funny that you should say that. [Laughs]
Sarah: You’ve forgotten what it is? Oh, boy.
Jane: No, but I got an email from someone say –
Sarah: What?
Jane: – in a publishing house who said, my author got nominated for your contest, and I went to your website, but I can’t figure out what it is.
Sarah: [Laughs] Surprise!
Jane: And then I told her, and she’s like, yeah, I would have never come up with that.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yeah, from the name to the format, it’s a little challenging if you’re not familiar with it. I feel bad for everyone who logs in on the first day of voting, and it’s like, what, what is everyone talking about on Twitter? –
Jane: Right, right.
Sarah: – I don’t understand.
Jane: I think we kind of need this right now, because Twitter has been, like, a dismal, unhappy place of late.
Sarah: Y-, yes. We definitely need something silly that is not llamas or color-changing dresses, because that’s been done.
Jane: Yeah, and I was reading Kristen Callihan and – I’m trying to remember the three authors that were gently trash-talking each other, and it was very humorous. So.
Sarah: Oh, I saw them. They were, they were being very complimentary.
Jane: Sarina Bowen – there was someone else whose book I really want to read, and I haven’t read. Can’t remember. That’s the story of my life. Can’t remember.
Sarah: [Laughs] Well, I can tell you the reader nominations will go, will be, will be finished tomorrow, and we’ll announce them on, on Saturday, so by the time this airs, this will all be done. I like being in charge of this! Do you like being in charge of this?
Jane: Yes!
Sarah: [Laughs] I enjoy this a lot.
Jane: And this year went so much more smoothly for me.
Sarah: Really?
Jane: Yeah, because I had saved everything from before, and –
Sarah: Oh, that was smart. Look at you!
Jane: I know, can you – ? Which – and, and so, like, all of my headers and footers and stuff were already done, and I, I’ve – eight years later, I’ve gotten the hang of it.
[Laughter]
Jane: It only took me eight years.
Sarah: Only eight years, and I remember getting texts and messages from you at midnight going, I don’t understand! It’s not working!
Jane: Oh, my God, last year I was in, I don’t know if you remember, but last year I was at the Mall of America, and I was trying to set up the software, but I didn’t have a win-, I didn’t – ‘cause I have Macs, and this is a Windows-based software –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Jane: – and I couldn’t get the Windows, and I’m, like, running all over the mall trying to buy a copy of Windows 7 or Windows 8.
Sarah: [Laughs] Oh, I remember that! You were – and the Mall of America is not a small place.
Jane: It was very stressful, but this year, I mean, I was really proud of myself for getting it set up, and I so appreciate your schedule and your master to-do list. I mean, that is so good.
Sarah: Well, one of my New Year’s resolutions last year was to make things as easier, as easy for Future Sarah as possible, so –
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: – Present Sarah and Past Sarah need to help Future Sarah out, because the, in all likelihood, Future Sarah is tired and probably a little stressed out, and you need to make things a little easier for Future Sarah, so if you can write down what, what it is that you’re doing so that next year you remember what you have to do, that would be very helpful. So I’m glad it was helpful for you too. It was really helpful for me.
Jane: It was super helpful for me. I have to confess, and this is kind of funny because I see people saying, gosh, I’ve only read, like, three books in the DABWAHA slate, and I have not read that many. I’ve read maybe ten of the sixty-four books? What’s your reading rate?
Sarah: Oh, my goodness. Two, three, oh, I’m up to five, wait, no, hold on, six! Seven!
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: Eight! [Laughs] I’m looking at the nominations, and I’m like, um, is um, uh –
Jane: Okay –
Sarah: – Nine! That’s nine! Ten, and I’m currently reading one of them, so fourteen. Out of sixty-four! That’s not a lot. I don’t know of anyone who has read all of these books. The idea, though, isn’t that these are the books that everyone should have read. That’s, that’s not the point of the nomination slate at all.
Jane: We give a lot of deference to our reviewers and other people that we rely upon to try to get a really diverse grouping of books.
Sarah: Right, ‘cause if it was just your taste and my taste, it would be a very short slate.
Jane: [Laughs] Yeah, and it would –
Sarah: And, and none of it would be, none of it would be similar.
[Laughter]
Sarah: There’d be, like, one book we agreed on, and every other category would be like, what?!
Jane: Well, I don’t, I mean, like – A Bollywood Affair?
Sarah: Uh-huh.
Jane: Would probably be my top pick.
Sarah: If you were going to select out of the contemporary nominees –
Jane: Uh-huh.
Sarah: So we have, It Happened One Wedding by Julie James, Vanished by Carter Quinn, Waiting on You, Kristan Higgins, Maybe This Christmas by Sarah Morgan, A Bollywood Affair, Into the Shadows by Carolyn Crane, Between the Sheets by Molly O’Keefe, and Bad Behavior by K. A. Mitchell, if you were doing a selection, if you were picking your bracket, who do you think would come out of that category winning? Like, what was your –
Jane: Oh, well, I know, I feel like I know who wins, but that’s not the book I would vote for.
Sarah: And that’s a very important thing about the DABWAHA. There’s three things that you have to kind of take into account when you select your bracket: one, which book or author has a fan base that’s coordinated enough to schedule and manage voting in a very specific time period? And if you know of an author who’s been in this before and knows how to do that, that’s an advantage for picking your bracket. Which book you want to win is a totally separate question, and which book you think will win is probably influenced by the first, but may not be at all what you pick.
Jane: Yeah, so, just to explain it a little bit, I like sports a lot, and –
Sarah: And I do not. I like doing them! Like, I like snowboarding and I like paddleboarding, but I don’t, I’m not a big team sports fan anymore, except for baseball. But then you just sit outside and drink and enjoy men running around slowly. That’s completely different. So anyway.
Jane: I don’t remember how this started, other than we were obviously not in our right minds at the time.
Sarah: Oh, I remember how this started.
Jane: Oh, well, you have to tell the story then!
Sarah: It’s not a very exciting story, but it has to do with you.
Jane: Of course. [Laughs]
Sarah: Obviously. So back when Smart Bitches was co-run by me and Candy, we had come up with an award called the Bitchery Writing Award for Hella Good Authors, and we were like, we’re going to give an award! Because we have Photoshop and books. And you know, I remember when we first started our site, we would give away a $5.00 gift card to Amazon, because that was what we could afford. Like, our big prizes were things we made on Photoshop and $5.00 gift cards. But we came up with this award –
Jane: I feel honored to get a title.
Sarah: Oh, yes, titles were a very big deal.
Jane: So give an example of a title.
Sarah: Of a title? God. Well, I was the Duchess of Cuntington.
Jane: Right.
Sarah: I believe Candy was Countess Gante de Amour. We’ve given out Duchess Twitterpants, Viscountess of Mantitty – something vaguely obscene or spelled weirdly, add a title to it, you’re, there you go. But we came up with this award for the books that we wanted to, to honor for a particular year – it might have been, like, 2006 or 2007 – and our prize was pink quill feather pens, ‘cause I thought they were cool, and they were on sale. We had no budget. Then, the following year or the year after, whichever was the first year of the DABWAHA, you and Candy and I were emailing, and you said, I have always wanted to be a bracketologist! And we were like, okay? And you said, let’s do a March Madness tournament of books, ‘cause I really want to be a bracketologist! And we went, okay? And then, like, you, with all of your technical wisdom, went out and found this software that lets you customize your own bracket tournament. I think it’s called Turbo Tourney?
Jane: It is Turbo Tourney, and I have to give them props because they’re very nice to us every year. They do a little favor for us so we can run it.
Sarah: Yes. We set up the idea, you, you got the whole software thing set up, but this basically exists because Jane wanted to be a bracketologist.
Jane: And so for people who don’t follow this, in, in the U.S., ‘cause I know we have lots of international listeners, in the United States there is a college basketball tournament, and they pick the sixty-four best college basketball teams, and then those teams compete with each other over the course of two and a half weeks until there’s a championship game, and then the winner is the, crowned the NCAA champion for that year, and it’s become such a thing in the United States it’s got a name. It’s called March Madness. People around the country, in their offices and friends, do betting pools, even though gambling is not allowed.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yes. Although, isn’t there, like, a $1,000,000.00 prize from someone, for someone who gets the, a perfect bracket?
Jane: But that’s like a lottery or a sweepstakes or something like that.
Sarah: Yeah.
Jane: It’s not gambling. ‘Cause I, I think, like, ESPN hosts it, and you don’t, there’s no cost to enter.
Sarah: Right.
Jane: So it’s not gambling. But, so the idea is that you take this slate of sixty-four teams, and you have a bracket with thirty-two teams on one side, thirty-two teams on the other, and the idea is you look at each match and decide who’s going to advance, all the way down until the champion is picked, and so that’s what we do with our books. We have sixty-four books. I’m the one that – so you can blame me – I’m the one that will take the slate of nominations, I rank them –
Sarah: Yes, Jane does the seeding. This is part of being a bracketologist.
Jane: This is why I write! [Laughs]
Sarah: This is, this all exists because you really wanted to be a bracketologist.
Jane: I know. Truly, I was, I’m the worst –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: – NCAA bracketologist. The, my law school roommate, Andy, was awesome at it. He, but he lo-, I mean, like, he read all of the statist-, like, back when newspapers were a thing, back in the olden days when, you know, we were carted around in horse and buggy, he would read the newspaper –
[Laughter]
Jane: – every day.
Sarah: [Laughs] You mean that paper with words that would show up on your, on your porch every day?
Jane: Yeah, and that would rub off on your hands and then on your face and then on your table and your clothes? Yeah, that.
Sarah: Yes. My grandmother, who was very, very proper, used to read the New York Times with a very specific pair of white gloves on.
Jane: Oh, my Lord. I love her. I love –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: So he would read all the stats, and so he was very good at it. And one of the things that he told me and I always remember – Andy was like, he, like, opened my eyes to so many things. Like, he told me all these boys’ secrets I didn’t even know existed.
Sarah: Really?
Jane: Yeah –
Sarah: Can you name one?
Jane: Okay, so when guy, guys, when they scratch their balls, aren’t really scratching. They are pinching the – not pinching, but – well, I guess softly pinching – the scrotum skin and rolling it.
Sarah: No kidding!
Jane: Yeah, and then I read on a Reddit thread later on that the, just recently, actually, that that’s exactly what they do. They don’t scratch; they roll. You should ask Adam.
Sarah: I, I will, and he will be very confused.
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: So, you rank all of the books; you set them up into matches and pairs.
Jane: Right, so we have eight categories, and then each, and within each category a book is ranked one through eight, and then the categories compete against each other, and I think we have, I think we have, like, contemporary that competes against historical and paranormal that competes against novel with romantic elements and then YA/NA will probably compete against the category series and so forth, and so probably, I guess, the novella will go up against the reader nominations. I, what I should do is reader nominations versus contemporary, ‘cause I think contemporary is the most popular category these days? So anyway –
Sarah: And it’s funny, the, the year we did the – I remember very clearly the first year we did this, which was, like, 2007? 2006?
Jane: It was two, it was, we did it in 2008, but for 2007 books.
Sarah: Right. I remember we had so many paranormal.
Jane: Oh, my gosh.
Sarah: We had, like, fifty different books that we could have nominated, and it was a struggle to fill the contemporary slot.
Jane: Yep.
Sarah: Hence, save the contemporary. Which doesn’t need saving anymore! It’s fine!
[Laughter]
Sarah: We don’t need to save it. It’s all good! It’s perfectly healthy! But yeah, I think you’re right, I think contemporary is the strongest category.
Jane: So, in any event, on Sunday, Selection Sunday, if you to DABWAHA and then click on the Tourney Site link, it will take you to our tournament pick sheet and you’ll see the bracket and the books all laid out, and then you have to fill in which book you think is going to advance in each round until you pick the winner. And then there’s a tiebreaker, and the tiebreaker is – and people get confused about this, so it’s a number under 1,000 –
Sarah: Yes.
Jane: – ‘cause that’s what the, the limits are –
Sarah: Yes.
Jane: We love Turbo, we love you, Turbo Tourney!
[Laughter]
Jane: It’s not designed for our so-, our little game, but you st-, it still works!
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: But in any event, the tiebreaker iiiiissss –
Sarah: Are you waiting for me to fill that in?
Jane: No. The total number of reader nominations received.
Sarah: Yes. That is correct.
Jane: So, it should be –
Sarah: It is a number less than 1,000.
Jane: Right. ‘Cause that’s the, that’s the limit.
Sarah: Well, in the real NCAA tournament, the tiebreaker is the total of the two scores of the final game, right?
Jane: Right. But we get so many votes, there would be, it, it would exceed 1,000.
Sarah: Oh no, we, yeah, we can’t use that number because, whereas the actual NCAA is people playing basketball, ours is collecting individual votes, and it goes way over 1,000 very quickly.
Jane: And it’s, the idea is, here’s sixty-four of the best books published in 2014. Obviously, there’s a lot of disagreement and peop-, books that we feel like we left off, but –
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: – we’re kind, we’re limited, you know, eight per category. And the idea is just to (a) have some fun and (b) kind of celebrate the year of publishing in romance.
Sarah: And also, this year we made a lot of changes to the categories.
Jane: And good ones!
Sarah: I think so, yes. So, in past years, we’ve a GLBT category, and this year we decided – actually, it was last year we were like, all right, we’re not doing this again. We took all of the gay/lesbian titles in romance, and instead of putting them all in one category, we put them in the appropriate genre category, because as Heidi Cullinan said to me at one point during RT, male/male romance isn’t its own genre; it fits in other genres. Which I agree with her, so now we have –
Jane: Yeah!
Sarah: – all of these different books in the proper genre category. But that does not mean that people don’t disagree with us, ‘cause they do.
Jane: And they should. I mean, that’s –
Sarah: Part of the point!
Jane: Yeah, it’s all about – well, and we run it, so it’s our opinion that counts the most.
[Laughter]
Sarah: It’s, it’s ‘cause Jane wants to be a bracketologist! That’s why, y’all, that’s really the reason.
Jane: But we do try to listen to what people have to say, and one of our goals was to make sure we really fielded a diverse slate of candidates.
Sarah: Right.
Jane: I like seeing new names and new books. That’s my favorite thing. I don’t like seeing the same books and authors appear year after year.
Sarah: Especially because one of the things that I think happens a lot in romance is that the genres change yearly. Even six months – I mean, steampunk is not a, not something I hear as much about now, but I think that in another six months we’ll hear more about romantic suspense and mystery romance. I think that each genre shifts and changes so much faster now that it, it’s better for us to have new and different authors in each of the categories.
Jane: Oh, the burn cycle is so much faster because –
Sarah: Yes.
Jane: – the, the –
Sarah: That’s a really good term for that.
Jane: The speed to market – you know, before, if you look at chick lit and how long that kind of took to flame out, it took longer because they could only publish so many books, you know, because the pace of publishing in traditional is so much slower –
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: – and they can only publish so many books.
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: So you didn’t burn out as fast, whereas now –
Sarah: Oh, my gosh, how long did it take paranormal to die?
Jane: Yeah! It’s not dead. I would say historical is way deader than paranormal.
Sarah: Right. I mean, well, in the immortal words of publishing expert Bruce Springsteen, everything dies, that’s a fact, but maybe everything that dies someday comes back. Nothing’s truly dead, but –
Jane: Right.
Sarah: – it’s not the genre that everyone talks about. So don’t go having a heart attack ‘cause I proclaimed something dead. Nothing’s ever really dead, because Bruce Springsteen said so.
Jane: [Laughs] You killed paranormal. I just wanted –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: – I just want everyone to know that while I might have killed historical, clearly Sarah is trying to kill paranormal. And I, and for all you paranormal fans, I am trying to defend the genre, because you know I love it. I’m trying to defend it against evil Sarah, who’s clearly trying to take her sword and stab it in the gut.
Sarah: It’s a silver sword, and I am laughing so hard there are actual tears on my face. [Laughs] Yes, I’m, I have it in for paranormal, except that I am, I’m –
Jane: She has never liked you, paranormal!
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: The truth is coming out.
Sarah: I’m going to get so much hate mail. Thanks, Jane, that was awesome!
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: So now I need to wipe my face. Okay – [laughs]
Jane: Speaking of paranormal, have you read Anne Bishop yet?
Sarah: I was just going to say, I have that, and I am terrified to start the series.
Jane: Okay –
Sarah: Your fear is, is, is contagious.
Jane: [Laughs] I have heard through the grapevine that it sounds like I’m safe to read book four, but, but at a question and answer event with, Anne Bishop was with Patty Briggs – I think they were in Seattle – someone said, are there going to be books beyond book five? ‘Cause apparently she’s committed up to book five, and she says, depends on how many people are left standing.
Sarah: [Gasps] Fear!
Jane: I know.
Sarah: Ee!
Jane: But, but I heard, I, I, I heard through the grapevine that book four is safe for me.
Sarah: Okay. Okay. I will try it. Because, hey, the, Murder of Crows is nominated.
Jane: Yeah.
Sarah: I’m actually really curious about the results of the novel with strong romantic elements category, ‘cause as I have said before, the fact that that’s not a RITA category anymore bums me out severely, because that was where I discovered a number of books that I love in that category. Because sometimes you want to have your romance tempered with a little bit of something else. And this year, there’s a lot of science fiction and fantasy and historical, as well. The Paying Guests by Sarah Waters, I – have you heard of this book? Everyone I know was talking about this book. I couldn’t turn into a podcast without someone talking about this book.
So here is a question for you: one of the comments on my site, actually, a couple of comments on my site when we posted the slate of nominees echoed a bit of a discussion you and I had had about YA and New Adult, that they’re not the same thing, and they should not be –
Jane: No.
Sarah: – in the same category.
Jane: I agree.
Sarah: I disagree.
Jane: We had a big debate about this –
Sarah: We did!
Jane: – via email, and I felt bad because you were on vacation, and I’m like, gosh, I don’t want to bother her about this on vacation.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: But this is good because I always tell people that, you know, Sarah and I can’t agree on anything, but we’re still very good friends –
Sarah: Yes.
Jane: – and this is a very good example. We had a fierce debate –
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: – over the YA/NA, and we never came to any agreement.
Sarah: Nope.
Jane: We still, I think, are legions apart.
Sarah: Yep! Yep. I’m supposed to insult you at some point; let me know when that is, as I don’t know. [Laughs] I’m supposed to, like –
Jane: I think it’s now. You –
Sarah: Now? Oh! I, I have to think of an insult. Okay. Well, stop with your words, there. There you go. Whssh. My, my perspective was, I am aware that they are not the same genre, but they are close enough in my mind, and the –
Jane: They’re not!
Sarah: They are! The, the distance between New Adult and Young Adult is much smaller to me than the distance between New Adult and contemporary. So one of the arguments that was made in the comments on Smart Bitches was that we should have taken the New Adult titles and put them in contemporary romance, because that’s what they were. And I don’t see those two things as being similar enough to put them in the same category. I see the distance between YA and NA as much smaller than the distance between New Adult and contemporary romance.
Jane: Oh, I so disagree with you. For one thing –
Sarah: Shocking. Shocking!
Jane: For one thing, you could have totally put A Bollywood Affair in the New Adult category! It’s about a college student!
Sarah: But it’s not a New Adult book! I don’t think New Adult is –
Jane: You don’t even read New Adult!
Sarah: But – no, I, this is true. I do not, but I don’t think New Adult is based purely on an age. I think New Adult is a set of themes.
Jane: No! No. No, no, no.
Sarah: Yes!
Jane: No!
Sarah: Yes.
Jane: No.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: You can’t even say that, ‘cause you don’t read the genre!
Sarah: I have read enough of it! It’s not like I haven’t read any. I have read some.
Jane: You can’t, you can’t define the, you can’t define New Adult by the popular books in the genre. I mean, we don’t say that contemporary is just people in the city wearing high-heeled shoes and having meet-cutes, or it’s not just small-town romances. Those are a type or a trope within the genre, and it’s the same thing with New Adult. Yes, the most popular books have a certain type of feel to them, but Sonali Dev’s totally fits in with the whole New Adult oeuvre.
Sarah: Oh, I totally disagree with you, because that, to me, is a Harlequin Presents.
Jane: It, you, you’re right, but the – how many times have I said on this podcast that New Adults are HPs?
Sarah: I don’t remember you saying that before, but I’m going to guess that you have. [Laughs] I just wasn’t listening!
Jane: I have said that, I have said that since the inception of New Adult! That they remind me of HPs and that I’ve actually replaced reading HPs with New Adults because they feature the same sort of high angst that I like to get from HPs, just in a different format. Now, I think that it’s a hugely different thing, because the, there’s a lot of people who say that New Adult is just sexed-up YA, and I totally disagree. New Adult is about –
Sarah: I don’t agree with that, no. I don’t agree with that.
Jane: – young people finding, with a lot of freedom, finding themselves and determining who they’re going to be as adults. And I saw that in the Sonali Dev story, particularly with the girl who is married, thinks she’s married – oh, I guess she is married – to a boy she was promised to marry by proxy, whatever you want to say.
Sarah: Well, they were both there. She was just four. You know.
Jane: So, it, it’s, to me, it’s not just about age but the type of discovery story.
Sarah: But see, here’s where I disagree with you, ‘cause you said that New Adult is about young people figuring out who they are as adults, right?
Jane: Yeah.
Sarah: I see that same major theme in Young Adult. That’s young people figuring out who they are at the very, very beginning edge of having autonomy, whereas New Adult is farther along in that same sort of growth of autonomy and the ability for self determination. Both Young Adult and New Adult focus on individuals who are trying to figure out who they are in the middle of whatever circumstance they’re in. So that’s why I see them as two, as very close and much closer than, say, contemporary.
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: If you want to email the podcast and tell Jane she’s wrong – [laughs]
Jane: We could, we could argue ad nauseam about this, and I just want everyone to notice that I totally gave in to this, and it was because Sarah was on vacation and I didn’t want to bother her.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: But we can bring it, people, next year!
Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one of the other things we almost did was we almost had a romantic suspense category, and –
Jane: Oh, that’s where, yeah, we –
Sarah: – and Jane prevailed on that one because she argued, and I think she’s correct, that romantic suspense is a variation of contemporary. It is a flavor of contemporary, if you will. A strong flavor, a flavor that is not for me, but it is a flavor of contemporary, and I agree with her, so we moved everything around.
Jane: Yes, and then we ended up with the great, let’s just have one slate reader nominated, which I love.
Sarah: That’s going to be a lot of fun.
Jane: So, as you can see, the DABWAHA is a bunch of compromises. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yes. Actually, I just asked on Twitter, you know, I’m recording a podcast with you about this; do you have any questions? And here are some questions from Katy F.: “How do you pick the books in each category? Are they from bestseller lists? Are they personally read or reviewed? Is it word of mouth? Do you read all the books, and do you do a bracket?” I do a bracket, but I say in the title of it that I’m not eligible. Jane, you do not, because you are the bracketologist.
Jane: Right, I think it’s unfair, and I don’t, I have, I, like, try to not even promote, like, who I think is going to win or, or encourage people to vote for a particular book, ‘cause I don’t want to unfairly sway the brackets or influence voting or anything like that.
Sarah: So how do we pick the books? Have we answered that sufficiently?
Jane: It’s us and our reviewers, and then we duke it out behind the scenes.
Sarah: Yes. The initial spreadsheet of, of nominees is much, much longer than the final slate of eight, and we argue a lot about who should go where and what should be in and what should not.
Jane: Right. I have notes in there saying, this was the worst book ever.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yes! She went in there commenting, and it was like, are you high? Why did you put this down? And there are some where I have not read them, but I know enough about the book and the people who have reviewed for me who have liked it to know that, whether or not it would, would fare well and, and it would do well in the tournament. Not that it would win, but that it, that it should go in the tournament, based on what I know of it. I have not read all sixty-four books.
Jane: Like I said in my post, if it was me doing the contemporary, Jo Wylde would be there and Kristen Ashley would be there, but it’s a compromise. It’s looking at not just my preferences or your preferences but those of the, those of people that blog with us and, and the things that they thought were great, and that’s why, you know, deferring to their opinions gives us, I think, a broader, broader scope and, and more diverse slate of nominations.
Sarah: I think the best compliment that I saw when we announced that it was time for the, for the tournament nominations was people saying, oh, my God, I’m so excited! I find out about the best books that I never would have heard of otherwise.
Jane: Yeah! That’s –
Sarah: That’s the whole point.
Jane: Exactly, that –
Sarah: That and prizes.
Jane: And that’s the point of blogging, right? Is to introduce people to books that they might not ordinarily buy. You know, we had a discussion about, just a brief discussion about ARCs on Twitter the other day, because I’ve seen a lot of people on Facebook, a lot of authors, upset about the pirating of ARCs.
Sarah: Digital ARC?
Jane: Yeah, and so they’re talking about ways in which they handle things. Like, some people require reviewers to sign a contract, and other, others do other things, and, and you know, there’s a lot of hurt feelings for people who don’t get ARCs, and my feeling is that, hey, if you don’t trust me, don’t send me the ARC. And, and I totally think it’s the author’s right to feel that way and to not send books to people that they don’t feel comfortable with. And part of me wonders, hey, you know, maybe we should just eliminate the ARC practice altogether. That way, authors won’t feel compelled to send books to readers, and, and bloggers won’t have to feel like they’re under suspicion all the time from authors. The one thing about ARCs is that it allows us to take chances on books that you and I or other bloggers wouldn’t ordinarily buy or read ourselves.
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: But because we get a free copy, sometimes we’re curious enough to start a book. And I actually read a book last week; it wasn’t an ARC, it was a finish copy, and for those who don’t know what that it is, it’s the actual book itself that you see in the retail sites, so publishers send to reviewers advance reader copies, and those go out six, four to six months before the book is published, and then about five, three to five weeks before the book is published, reviewers are sent finish copies, and there’s a lot more finish copies that go out than these ARCs, ‘cause ARCs are really expensive –
Sarah: Yep.
Jane: – so the finish copy was of a book called When Joss Met Matt, and it was a book about friends with benefits who eventually fall in love, and it’s just not a book I would buy myself, because that storyline doesn’t appeal to me, but I, it was sitting on my desk, and I’m like, hmm. I open it, I read a couple pages, and I end up reading the entire book, and so that’s just an example of how publicity’s supposed to work.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Jane: And that’s the purpose of ARCs, too, is to allow people a no-risk or low-risk opportunity to discover a new book. That can work sometimes, but the idea behind the DABWAHA is really, let’s talk about books that we really loved last, that were published last year and help people to find, maybe, a new favorite read.
Sarah: The other part of ARCs is that it, it is a relic from when there was a lot more advance press about books –
Jane: Yeah.
Sarah: – and there was a lot more press about books in general, because, you know, for, even to get into Romantic Times, you have to have submit the book for review months in advance. I know Kathe Robbins, who reviews a lot of books for Romantic Times, she lives near me, and she’ll probably – it’s, it’s March? – she’s probably reading, like, Christmas books right now. For 20, 2015, 2017, maybe, I don’t know. You, it’s, it’s a relic from when you needed a long lead time to get any press mention about a book, and that’s not so true for most book publications, ‘cause there aren’t that many anymore, and you can’t do that much pre-sales for self-published books as much, either, so for me personally, I actually have saved my ARCs until just before the book comes out, because I don’t want to talk about something in advance when someone else can’t buy it, because as I’ve said, my whole goal is poor impulse control, because I want everyone to have as poor impulse control as I do. And if I talk about a book that I loved and you can’t buy it, that, well, that’s sucky, and I, I hate making people feel bad. With the ARCs, though, I often feel terribly guilty receiving an ARC that I know is not even remotely close to my genre, and the, the sort of list cultivation of who gets what ARC sometimes has very, very little to do with what genre you’re reviewing. You just get on a list and your name gets copied.
Jane: Oh, we, Jayne with a Y reviewed a World War II book once –
Sarah: Oh, God.
Jane: – and ever since then I feel like I’ve gotten every World War II book ever published.
Sarah: I got Benazir Bhutto’s biography. Not a romance, not a happy ending.
Jane: [Laughs]
Sarah: That’s, like, my perfect example. Like, how in the – if it has a woman on the front, maybe that’s the list we’re on. It’s got a chick on it; send it to them.
Jane: [Laughs] Well –
Sarah: Look, female book, send it to the romance bloggers.
Jane: Like, I got the, the American Sniper book before it was ever made into a movie.
Sarah: Yep. I got a copy of that too. Between Scribd and my library and the books that I know that I want to buy and I have coupons for or I save up and buy, I would be okay without them, but I don’t think that’s true for everybody.
Jane: Yeah, I mean, I would be okay with it too. I’m not going to lie and say that, like, I got an ARC the other day of – and I’m sure you got it too – of Lisa Kleypas’s next book?
Sarah: No, I did not!
Jane: You did not?
Sarah: [Gasps] Okay, now I’m going to pitch a fit on social media, damn it! I’m just kidding; it’s fine. [Laughs]
Jane: Well, I got the, an ARC of it. [Laughs]
Sarah: Did you read it already?
Jane: I did! I, like, could barely, I, I had to eat dinner with my family, but as soon as it was done, I pushed them all away, I escaped up to my bed-, my office and read it.
Sarah: Is it good?
Jane: It is good. It’s, it’s, it’s a very simple story line, but Kleypas’s ability to make you care about her characters is just amazing –
Sarah: I’m so excited that you liked it!
Jane: – and so I really enjoyed it, and you totally get the good book feeling when you’re done.
Sarah: Yes!
Jane: It’s not my favorite. I mean, I have to – I’ve re-read the middle two. I, I don’t re-read the first one. I always get mad about that. I re-read the second two, and I think I’ve come to really think that Blue-Eyed Devil is my favorite.
Sarah: And the one you’re talking about now is Brown-Eyed Girl.
Jane: Correct.
Sarah: And that’s coming out in August.
Jane: I did not realize when I tweeted about it that it was coming out so late, ‘cause I never read, do you read those inserts?
Sarah: No. I suck. [Laughs]
Jane: No, I don’t either, so I didn’t know. I actually also read a book that’s coming out in May or June, the Asking for It.
Sarah: Oh, the one that Erin was talking about in the podcast. What did you think?
Jane: Yeah. You, you should get a copy from her.
Sarah: You think I would like it?
Jane: I don’t know. I think it’s exactly what it says it is. It’s a book about a woman who has a rape fantasy, and she explores it.
Sarah: Okay. Sure.
Jane: So, it really depends on, some people just find that really offensive, but I thought that the way Lilah Pace handled it was so well done, ‘cause the heroine was assaulted, and she has a lot of guilt over the fact that this is something that she, that sexually arouses her, and she’s in therapy, and you see her in therapy, but what happens is, she meets a guy, she tells her long-term boyfriend, she ultimately confesses to him that she’d like to do this, and he just can’t do it. They end up breaking up. They’re at a party, and he’s really drunk, and he starts apologizing to her and says, oh, I wish I could have done this for you, I wish – and he’s being loud, and he blurts out, I wish I could have – I can’t remember the exact words, but basically tells the entire party what her fetish is.
Sarah: [Gasps] Yikes!
Jane: Right. So she’s humiliated and embarrassed. She goes off. Another, a, a guy she, who helped change her tire comes up to her, out, as she’s away from the, and she’s, like, in the back yard, away from the crowd, trying to gain, regain her composure, and he says to her, if this is truly what you want, I can deliver that for you. So the entire story is about the setup of their sexual encounters, and they talk about not why they like it, but how that’s going to play out, what are the hard limits, that sort of thing.
Sarah: So it’s a lot about consent in, among a fantasy that is, that is not about consent.
Jane: Exactly, but it also explores the psychological, like, why does she like it? And there’s a point in the story, which I thought was really great, in which the therapist says to her, have you ever thought about the possibility that you would have liked this fantasy regardless of your past history? So I felt like it treated that fantasy with respect and that people, it didn’t denigrate it in any way, but still showed the emotional guilt and trauma that a woman might have wanting that fantasy.
Sarah: Huh!
Jane: It was kind of funny, ‘cause am I’m reading it, the first two sexual encounters are pretty mild, and I’m like, okay, this is a girl who likes a rape fantasy, and I think that, like, 95% of the couples have probably acted out this one. [Laughs] Right? But it does escalate through the story, and which makes sense, because initially, they don’t know each other, and so going really hardcore doesn’t really make sense, and it’s only after they begin to trust each other more that they can really act it out. And then the conflict, what kind of, the dark moment at, toward the end of the book, is really interesting, and it is a sexual one, but it’s very interesting how it kind of flips, and it’s, it’s a cliffhanger, and there’s a second book, but it’s – and I hate cliffhangers – but when you’re reading the story, you’re like, these two characters are so screwed up, there’s no way they can fix it in the next, you know, forty pages.
Sarah: Whoa. That does sound really interesting.
Jane: And as I thought, you know, ‘cause rape fantasy is a big part of our genre, and, and it’s a big part of women’s fantasies. I mean, if you look at, I think FetLife did a poll, and domination/submission and rape fantasies were the top fantasies there.
Sarah: Maybe I will try to get a copy of this. So, of the books that are on the DABWAHA list, which ones that you haven’t read are you curious about?
Jane: I want to read – and I don’t like novellas –
[Laughter]
Jane: – but I want to read Indecent Exposure by Jane O’Reilly and Unwrapping Her Perfect Match by Kat Latham. I’ve wanted to read Kat Latham for a long time. It seems like she’s an author I would really like, but Jayne with a Y reviews her books, so I feel like I –
Sarah: If someone else on your team is reviewing it, it’s really hard to, it’s really hard to review it if you know someone else is.
Jane: Right, and then the other books, Bitter Spirits by Jenn Bennett. Like, at first I was, this is set in, I think, the ‘20s or something like that? But the villain is a Chinese character, and it’s the only, I think, person of color in that book, and I thought, I just don’t know if I want to read about the only Asian being the villain, but I’ve heard the series is really good, so I might overcome my prejudice –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: – against that book. [Laughs]
Sarah: I have heard that, I think, some, something is tickling the back of my brain that he’s the hero of a future book, but I could be wrong about that.
Jane: No, I think you’re right. I think in the third ser-, in the third book, he’s the hero, so that’s kind of why I’m like –
Sarah: Hmm.
Jane: – hmm, well, maybe I’ll go back.
Sarah: I know that Carrie read and reviewed that series, and there were things that she didn’t like about the world and the way that the characters navigate it, but she says it’s really a good series. It’s not like an unequivocal gush of oh, my God, this is so good, you’re missing out if you don’t read it, but she really liked it. So –
Jane: So what about you? What are the books that you’re interested in?
Sarah: Well, it, this is sort of a cheating answer, but Murder of Crows is in the strong romantic elements, and so now I want to read Written in Red and, is it Vision in Silver?
Jane: Yes.
Sarah: Blade of silver or something silver? So now I want to read that series. And I have never read the Mary Robinette Kowal series? And so now I want to read that one too. So basically, I could park myself somewhere for a couple months and have enough to read. The other thing that I keep coming back to and thinking, okay, I want to read that. Okay, I, I want to read that, I want to read that, I want to read that, is Worth the Fall by Claudia Connor, because you have talked about it so much, I am so curious.
Jane: Have I? I’m, I’ve totally built it up then. I only think I talked about it in one podcast. The one I –
Sarah: Yes, but you and I definitely talked about it at another time.
Jane: I, okay, I’m, I don’t want to build it up. [Laughs] It’s good, but it’s not that good.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Jane: You should read the second book, ‘cause I couldn’t get into the second book, so maybe you’ll really love it.
Sarah: That’s totally normal. How has your C. L. Wilson re-read been going? You are tempting me mightily with that series.
Jane: Oh, I’m done, and it was great.
Sarah: You read the whole series or just the first one?
Jane: The whole series.
Sarah: How many books are there now? Is it, is the series done, or does it end unfinished?
Jane: No, it’s done. I think it’s five books?
Sarah: Nice. ‘Cause those are big books.
Jane: Didn’t seem like it when I was re-reading, but I skipped over some parts, and like I said on Twitter, the Shan and Elfeya subplot became more interesting and, particularly on the re-read, and I think ultimately, their romance where they survive a thousand years of torture and torment –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Jane: – is the more compelling romance than the main characters, which is Ellysetta and Rain.
Sarah: Yep. I, I am very tempted by your re-read to my, to go back and re-read that series.
Jane: Did you read The Winter King?
Sarah: The Winter King.
Jane: That was C. L. Wilson’s most recent book.
Sarah: No, I did not. What did you think?
Jane: I thought it was bad.
Sarah: Oh, bummer.
Jane: And I think, you know, if it had come from maybe a different author – and this is the unfairness of it, right? – if it had come from another author, I wouldn’t have thought so much about it, or I don’t know if I would have thought it was as bad, but when you compare that book with the C. L., with the Tairen Soul series, it’s just like night and day. It doesn’t even feel like it’s the same author.
Sarah: The next one, The Sea King, that looks like all of those books that were advertised in the middle of the romance novels when they had that cardboard cutout in the middle so you could join the, join the club with a postcard?
Jane: I can tell you right now, I’m not reading that book unless someone tells me it’s amazing. I would rather re-read –
Sarah: The hero’s mullet is amazing. It’s got curls.
Jane: Oh, my Lord.
Sarah: You need to see this cover; it’s impeccable.
Jane: I know.
Sarah: It is such a throwback to the old, sort of fuchsia – it looks like a Penelope Neri cover. This cover is amazing! And his chain mail lovingly traces his abs. Wow! Yeah, I think I’m reading this. The only, the only sad thing is it’s the letters that are fuchsia and not her dress. If her dress or her eye shadow were fuchsia, I would be, like, 100% reading this right now. Even if it’s not done, I wouldn’t care.
So let me see if we have any additional questions about the DABWAHA. Are you ready?
Jane: Yep.
Sarah: Jane, why didn’t you nip the name in the bud when Sarah first suggested it? [Laughs]
Jane: Because she names things. She’s the namer. I’m the bracketologist; Sarah’s the namer.
Sarah: Awesome! I like this. I will name all the things, and they will make no sense! Yes, I like this plan.
Jane: We all have our roles.
Sarah: We all have our roles, and mine is bad names.
[music]
Sarah: And that is all for this week’s podcast. Thank you very much for tuning in, and good luck if you are in the DABWAHA tournament. I hope your bracket is incredibly unbroken.
Next week, we have an interview with Jay from Joyfully Jay. We’re going to be talking about male/male romance, her favorite authors, books she recommends. It could get very expensive, so I apologize in advance.
The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is “Celtic Frock” by a UK duo called Deviations Project which features producer Dave Williams and violinist Oliver Lewis. This is from their album the Ivory Bow, which you can find at iTunes and Amazon and wherever your fine, fine music is sold.
This podcast was brought to you by InterMix, publisher of Trust the Focus, the first in a new romance series featuring two friends, Justin and Landry, on a post-college summer road trip. It’s on sale now wherever eBooks are sold.
And each week we do a podcast transcript, which is carefully and meticulously handcrafted by garlicknitter, who is a professional transcriptionist, so she’s extra badass at it. Podcast transcript this month is brought to you by Forever, publisher of Once and Always, the sweet and sexy new novel by Elizabeth Hoyt, writing as Julia Harper.
If you have interview suggestions or questions you’d like to ask or we didn’t address your burning questions about the DABWAHA, please email us at [email protected]. Future podcasts will most definitely include listener mail responses, ‘cause your mail, from listeners, is pretty awesome.
In the meantime, on behalf of Jane and myself, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend.
[rollicking music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Transcript Sponsor
This week’s podcast transcript is brought to you by Forever, publisher of Once and Always, the sweet and sexy new novel by Elizabeth Hoyt—writing as Julia Harper!
IS THERE A PROBLEM, OFFICER?
Small town cop Sam West certainly doesn’t mind a routine traffic stop: speeding ticket, stern warning, and sayonara. With a whopper of a blizzard closing in, that’s all he has time for. But the lawbreaker he pulls over is anything but typical. From her mile-long legs to her razor-sharp wit, Maisa Burnsey is like nothing Coot Lake, Minnesota, has ever seen . . . and she’s about to take Sam on the ride of his life.
BEING BAD HAS ITS BENEFITS
Whoever said blood is thicker than water probably wasn’t related to a former Russian mobster. But an innocent mix-up and rumors of stolen diamonds soon have the Russian mob taking an unusual interest in the sleepy little town-and Maisa facing heated scrutiny from a certain tall, dark, and handsome deputy. Sam’s dazzling blue eyes beg her to reveal all her secrets, but how much should she tell? Getting snowed in with the sexiest lawman in the frozen north may not be the worst way to decide . . .
Available now.
I have been very reluctant to read New Adult novels because I assume that they are, as Sarah says, closer to Young Adult and with people still finding their way and not really knowing who they are, and I really, really dislike that.
I matured very early. I had a career at 18. To this day, even though I’m very nearly 40, I tend to hang around with people who are much older than me. When I was 14 my very best friend was 28 with two children and a mortgage and we hung out and had deep conversations and enjoyed each others company as Peers. She was still my best friend when she died at 40.
My point is, even when I was actually a “Young Adult”, I really did have it all figured out. Or at least way more so than what I see portrayed in Young Adult novels, and what I expect in New Adult novels.
My best friend’s children are now in the age group supposedly covered by new adult. When I look at them and their peers I do not see people I want to read romance novels about. And not just because of the ick factor of them being my best friend’s children but because of their insecurities and their immaturities.
I’m currently reading Penny Reid’s Knitting in the City series where the heroes and heroines are in their mid to late 20s and I keep thinking New Adult when I’m reading. The characters are well educated and have careers but they’re still “new” somehow. And I’m totally okay with that. This is New Adult that I’m comfortable with. I would put this closer to contemporary. I don’t know if it’s billed as New Adult or Contemporary, whichever it is I like it, but if it had been billed as New Adult I likely would not have chosen to read it for fear that it was too close to Young Adult.
I recently read Something Like Normal by Trish Doller. It’s about a 19 year old soldier who’s on leave back with his family and he’s falling in love with a girl he went to highschool with. She’s 18 and preparing to go off to college. I’d certainly call this New Adult, but while this 19 year old’s maturity level waivers depending on his situation, I have a hard time seeing somebody who’s been a soldier and seen action in a war as “new”. I think this character could have been any age and this book would have worked. It was perhaps more poignant because he’s basically a child.
I really enjoyed this book but again, if I had realized that it was New Adult I likely would not have picked it up. Also, it’s told in the first person, present from HIS point of view (OMG!Why!?). It’s a really good book, you should read it.
The whole time I was reading this book I was thinking, is this Young Adult? or is this New Adult? or is this Contemporary? And I still don’t know. But it would not have worked for me without the fact that he had that maturity from his experience.
I guess that means I’m with Jane on this one. Or perhaps that means I’m on my own? I still don’t know!
I think there are a few camps in New Adult; some of them do feel similar in themes to Young Adult (coming of age and “firsts”) with say a book like Tammara Weber’s Easy. I’ve read other NA’s that far more removed from those themes and read more like a contemporary romance with strong focus on the relationship, the sex, and a lot less on other factors. Those books I would not say are near to YA. If anything, maybe New Adult just needs to be its own thing the way the authors of those books want them. I don’t think they fit in YA though! 🙂 Loved the spirited discussion.
Great podcast (as always) –
I highly recommend Indecent Exposure – I enjoyed it last year so much that I glommed on to the rest in the series. All good, and not repetitive – definitely thumbs up for Jane even if Jayne already reviews them.
And as a recently ex-dabwaha participant, thank you for all the work you do to pull this off. I had a great time going head-to-head with Kat Latham. Heroes Sling Insults
We had so much fun that over on her facebook page she’s actually giving away a bunch of copies of MY book – His Road Home – to celebrate Unwrapping Her Perfect Christmas’s victory!
I think that speaks well of the romance community and the way this contest works – thanks!
Great podcast (as always) –
I highly recommend Indecent Exposure – I enjoyed it last year so much that I glommed on to the rest in the series. All good, and not repetitive – definitely thumbs up for Jane even if Jayne already reviews them.
And as a recently ex-dabwaha participant, thank you for all the work you do to pull this off. I had a great time going head-to-head with Kat Latham. Heroes Sling Insults
We had so much fun that over on her facebook page she’s actually giving away a bunch of copies of MY book – His Road Home – to celebrate Unwrapping Her Perfect Christmas’s victory!
I think that speaks well of the romance community and the way this contest works – thanks!
As a new adult (or just passed out of it? Not sure how mid-20s factors in), I generally find NA doesn’t resonate with my or my friends’ experiences, voice, etc. To be really frank, they generally read like either a teen or someone in their mid-life trying to channel an alien voice. I have no idea what the actual average age of the author is for this category, so not trying to comment on the validity of that impression, but that’s just how it feels to me. I actually find non-NA books that have protagonists that still fit in that age demographic to be much more relatable/naturalistic. At this point if a book self-identifies as NA, I’m likely to pass. (Though strangely, I do often like YA… they seem to be better written with respect to voice? Again, just my impression. Y.S. Lee’s The Agency series is a good example of YA that has a nice voice)
I agree with Sarah on the NA/YA v contemporary thing.
I’m sorry, as an old DC comics fan, all I can think looking at the Sea King cover is that someone sold their Aquaman/Mera fanfic as a romance.
I have to agree with Sarah. “A Bollywood Affair” does not belong in NA! It’s not as cut and dry as other subgenres like PNR.
P.S. NA is so much closer to YA then Contemporary! But I’m biased because I dislike NAs and adore Contemporaries. As a rule, of course. ;P In fact, I hope NA is just a passing fad. Can it go away now? Do you think it will go away?
@Patricia
Perhaps we can kill New Adult. If Sarah can kill Paranormal and Jane can kill Historical, it seems only fair.
While I think both arguments have valid points, I agree more with Sarah that NA should be categorized with YA rather than Contemporary. But fully admit to my bias as someone who loves contemporary romance and romantic suspense and does not want to see the already overcrowded category shrink even further. I don’t read YA at all, so the idea that category would get 8 books by itself and another “super” category would have to include all of contemporary (with the subgenre romantic suspense AND New Adult) seems unfair. Especially when contemporary is just a time period, so technically YA is also contemporary. That probably makes more sense in my head, but hopefully you get the gist.
As someone who has played DABWAHA every year since the first, I just want to say a big thank you to Jane and Sarah and the reviewers at both DA and SBTB for putting this on every year. Though I am terrible at picking my bracket every year regardless if I go by my heart or my head, it is such fun.
“Sitting outside, drinking, and enjoying men running slowly”
Thank you! I will use this when people ask how I can possibly like baseball.
I suppose I should say that I’m not talking about killing off New Adult as a category in the DABWAHA but just killing it off full stop.
I feel like adults are adults and children are children. I don’t want to read about children and romance. It kind of icks me out.
I have only read 2 NA books.. Trade Me by Courtney Milan and The Deal by Elle Kennedy . I never thought I would say this but I loved them. I would explain that both of these books had the main character thinking as an adult from a really early age. So these books might not be the best examples of the genre. Both books were insanely good though . I do have to agree with Sarah that they are not and should not be categorized with Contemporary. NA books have adult experiences but really are about the decision to enter adulthood in light of experiences… I say the early 20’s.. Where Contemps usually proceed with the protagonist knowing who they are.. Although circumstances might change. I don’t see NA as YA but I could see how authors really need to define the characters as adult to separate the genres and prevent the ick factor.. Jane thanks for the preview of the Kleypas book. I loved Blue Eyed Devil .
Whoa! In Bitter Spirits, the villain is (spoiler spoiler spoiler) Chinese, but is NOT the only person of color.
The hero of book 3 is Bo Yeung (whom I’ve loved since book 1). He works for the hero of Bitter Spirits and has known the family for years. He was never the villain; he has always been wonderful and amazing. 😀
Also, I want to say that I take the middle approach on NA/YA — I think NA is equidistant from both contemp romance and YA.
@Regina: YIKES. Did I remember that wrong. Thank you for clarifying!!