If you tuned in to the Heaving Bosoms episode this week for Part I, you’ll know that we are discussing and recapping The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley. Originally published in 2009, this book inspired So Much Discussion when it was first published.
You can find part one of our conversation at Heaving Bosoms, and let’s get started with Part II!
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Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:
You can find Melody and the Heaving Bosoms podcast at HeavingBosoms.com.
You can find Part I of this crossover on the Heaving Bosoms podcast feed!
And you can listen to prior episodes right here:
- 496. The Invisible Goddess, Part I, with Melody from Heaving Bosoms!
- 497. The Invisible Goddess, Part II, with Melody from Heaving Bosoms!
- 441. Bosoms and Bitches: A NSFW Discussion of Toxic Desire
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Transcript
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[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 550 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, and this is part two of our Heaving Bosoms crossover. Hello, Heaving Bosoms listeners! Welcome. Some of our most popular episodes are crossovers between Heaving Bosoms and Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, and we have a new one! If you tuned into the Heaving Bosoms episode this week for part one, you’ll know that we are discussing and recapping The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie by Jennifer Ashley. This was originally published in 2009, and at that time it inspired so much discussion, so we have a lot to talk about.
Hello and thank you to our Patreon community. Not only do you make sure that every episode has a transcript, including this one – hello, garlicknitter! – you keep me going each week, and if you are a member of the Patreon community, there’s a really nifty Discord, there’s bonus episodes, and I have a compliment!
This compliment is for TheQueerAunt: In a galaxy far away, the folks that live on a beautiful planet celebrate an annual festival dedicated to kindness. Strangely enough, all of the decorations kind of look like you!
If you would like a compliment of your own or if you’d like to support the show, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.
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All right, are you ready for part two of The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie with Melody from Heaving Bosoms? Let’s do this. On with part two of our crossover episode.
[music]
Sarah: The last time we did a split episode –
Melody: Uh-huh?
Sarah: – we left off in the middle of the theater where they were fucking on stage at the fuck-y theater.
Melody: That’s true.
Sarah: Yes, but that was a different book.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: This book, they’re fucking in a pseudo-hotel, a pension, and the cops are outside ‘cause they’re not allowed to go to Bone Town without being married, and the cop outside is Detective Hate-boner, and he’s super mad that they exist, apparently? And –
Melody: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Sarah: – Beth and Ian have gone to Bone Town finally with full-on he’s-too-big pseudo-virginity –
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: – Boner, Boner Town visiting, and Lord Ian and Beth, now that they’ve gone to Bone Town, are cornered by the police, and so he somehow magically –
Melody: [Snorts]
Sarah: – gets his valet, who is both Google and TaskRabbit in one –
Melody: Yep.
Sarah: – to go out, find his brother, find a priest, bring him in, and now is like, Listen, we have to get married or else the cops will arrest us for having had sexytimes.
Melody: And she’s like, No, no, we couldn’t possibly! Okay.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: All right.
Sarah: Yeah. And he says, Look, we, we fit. We don’t fit in, but we fit together.
Melody: Awww!
Sarah: We fit.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: We are adrift –
Melody: He’s not wrong.
Sarah: – and no one wants us, the real us. We might as well drift together. It’s not I love you; please marry me. It’s, Well, we fit. Let’s, you know, let’s rub along together. And she points out, Look, that guy’s Catholic!
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: I, I’m Church of England; that guy’s Catholic! This isn’t – and he’s like –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – No, it’s real. It’s real. We can have another ceremony –
Melody: It’s super real.
Sarah: – in Scotland, but it’s real. And you’re going to be part of my family. And he’s, she’s like, You didn’t even buy me a ring! He’s like, I will buy you the biggest damn ring you have ever seen in your life!
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: He’s like, I just want to give you my protection of my family and my name, and I want you to marry me, and now we’re really –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – we’re cornered by Detective Inspector Hate-boner, who hates my family for reasons we have not discovered, but –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – you know, I will buy you a ring; I will protect you; I will – I just want to have sex with you a lot. Would you please marry me, and she’s like –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – Fine!
Melody: She’s like, Fine, okay.
Sarah: Fine, okay.
Melody: All right, doesn’t cross her mind once that they can get it annulled. Both of them have this, this, you know, slapdash wedding, and then –
Sarah: And the best part is Curry, the valet, who is also Google and also Task-, TaskRabbit, is like, Listen, you guys, it stopped raining, and he’s going to come in because it stopped raining. It stopped raining; you have to get married.
Melody: Yep. And they’re like, That is the logic that I’ve been waiting for, frankly, Curry.
Sarah: Ob-, obviously fine, okay. We better do it quickly.
Melody: Thank you.
Sarah: If, if it stopped raining, then obviously we need to get married, so they get married!
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: And then they were married.
Melody: Yeah! And then they’re like, You know what we should do now that we’re actually married, we should go on, we should do a honeymoon –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – back in Scotland.
Sarah: Yeah, let’s go to Scotland!
Melody: You’ve got to come see my ancestral home –
Sarah: Yeah! And –
Melody: – and –
Sarah: – this is the thing about the pacing of this book that absolutely floors me. It’s like this is the middle.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: This isn’t even the end; this is the middle.
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: Like, you could have had a book of just them in London with her shitty fiancé and getting her out of the engagement.
Melody: Absolutely.
Sarah: You could have had a book that was just them in Paris with all of the glorious sequel bait just wandering around the city. You could have had a whole book of just them in Scotland. You could have had a book of, all of major settings so far could have been their own book. Nope, we’re getting all three of them. All three: lots of travel; lots of sexytimes.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: So they get married, and they just walk out the front door like, Fuck you, pal! We’re married.
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: I’m Lady Ian Mackenzie. You can’t arrest us; those cops can’t arrest us; we are going home to Bone Town. Fuck you, bye!
Melody: Yeah! Yeah! Bye! Deuces! They say.
Sarah: Yep! Yep! And she realized how easy it is for him to just be like, No, we’re going to go! And –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – the way in front of him is effortlessly smooth. They walk on the train –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – there’s first class tickets; the baggage is handled; he doesn’t have to do anything. She doesn’t have to do –
Melody: Nope.
Sarah: – a single thing for herself.
Melody: And it’s really unnerving to her.
Sarah: Yeah, she’s really kind of like, Oh my God! Like, whoa! What the hell?
Melody: And so then they randomly go to London? She didn’t know that they were doing that.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: They go to London, and they pop over so that he can buy a porcelain bowl from a dealer.
Sarah: Yeah, he, he needs another bowl.
Melody: They go and they do the deal for the bowl, and then in walks Mather, her old fiancé –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – with another bowl –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – because he’s broke.
Sarah: And he’s really rude to Beth. He’s like, Wow, people are going to, you know, think that you’re his mistress, and he looks, Ian looks at him and says, Beth is my wife, and Mather gets all mad and says he’s going to sue them for breach of contract. Like, oh, for God’s sake!
Melody: Oh my God, Mather, just, you can’t, you can’t afford a solicitor; go home. You’re –
Sarah: For God’s sake! So in order to calm him down, Ian says, I would like to see the bowl you’re selling, and Ian buys it from Mather to –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – get him to just back off, but also it’s a, it’s a nice bowl and he wants it.
Melody: So then she’s like, Okay, well, ah, I guess we’ll go to the house or whatever, and he’s like, No, we’re just literally stopping by, and we’re going to take the night train to Scotland.
Sarah: Yeah! Finally they arrive at Kilmorgan, which is his house –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – which, okay.
Melody: So she sees that he’s, like, way more relaxed here –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – and it’s really honestly nice to see. They’re talking about, Curry says something, I think, about his brother, the Duke –
Sarah: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Melody: – like he’ll want to see you or whatever, and she goes, I didn’t know he was here, and he says, Yeah, I didn’t either; I just saw the ducal flag was up?
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: I did not know that was a thing. Did you know?
Sarah: Oh, that’s absol-, that’s absolutely a thing. Wherever the monarch is in England, the standard flies to show that they are in residence.
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: Huh!
Sarah: And it says earlier in the book that the Duke of Kilmorgan is extremely high in the order of precedence.
Melody: Yes.
Sarah: In all of the England-times dukes, he’s like top three.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And so his standard is above the house, and so Ian knew at a glance that his brother was there.
Melody: Right.
Sarah: It’s massive; it’s huge; it’s a big, big, big, big house; and everyone –
Melody: And everybody is so excited to see her!
Sarah: They’re all so excited! The coachman’s excited to meet her; everybody in the house is like, let’s go out on the porch and meet Beth; this is going to be great; and they’re all really excited; and Beth is like, holy shit. Ian says –
Melody: What’s happening?
Sarah: Ian doesn’t introduce her? Every single maid, every footman, everyone there bows to her and is like –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – what is happening? And she’s just completely overwhelmed.
Melody: One of them’s like, Your brother wants to see you, and somebody’s going to take her up to her room, and he’s like, Oh, no, no. No, he can meet Beth. And everybody’s sort of like, Really? You think that’s a great idea?
Sarah: Are you sure? Are you sure you’re sure?
Melody: Ahhh.
Sarah: Are you super-duper sure here? Are you extra sure-sy? And –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – well, it turns out Hart, Duke of Kilmorgan, he’s kind of a dick –
Melody: Yes, yeah.
Sarah: – to Beth.
Melody: Yeah. At first he talks about her as if she’s not in the room. Like, he asks a question about her that he could ask to her face, and she will not have it, and I –
Sarah: Yes!
Melody: – love it.
Sarah: Yes. She refuses to allow him to not acknowledge them. She’s like, Your grace, we’re in the room, and then he, he starts talking to Ian, and she walks forward with her hand extended, and she’s like –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – I’m very well, thank you for asking. The journey was tiring and, you know –
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: – no problem the lines, and everything was fine, and Hart’s like, Who is this woman talking to me when I’m trying to talk to you? And she’s like, I’m, I’m not going to let him ignore me.
Melody: No!
Sarah: No.
Melody: Not at all, and Ian’s like, that’s my wife.
Sarah: Yeah. And Hart’s like, I don’t recall sending for you. You could be in bed right now. And Beth looks him in the eye and says, The only person I ever allowed to send for me was Mrs. Barrington, and that was because she was paying me my wages.
Melody: That’s right.
Sarah: And he, Ian’s like, Just, just leave her alone, Hart. Just leave her be.
Melody: Yeah, he’s like, Cool it a tiny bit. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah. And Hart didn’t, doesn’t know what to do, to do with Beth; he doesn’t know what to do with these changes in Ian.
Melody: Mm-mm.
Sarah: He’s a big grumpy puss.
Melody: He is.
Sarah: He’s a big grump.
Melody: And so he’s like, I guess I’ll see you at dinner. Dress up nice –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – Ugly, because we dress up nice here, basically.
Sarah: Yeah, we dress for dinner; we dress formally. Don’t be late. And, and then he calls her Mrs. Ackerley?
Melody: [Gasps] Sir!
Sarah: I know! And she’s like, You can call me Beth. I’m no longer Mrs. Ackerley –
Melody: Oh.
Sarah: – and you have, and have become, to our mutual astonishment, your sister, and Hart is like, What?
Melody: Oh, he is floored, and Ian is delighted.
Sarah: Biggest shit-eating grin, and he is so impressed with Beth.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: He is just so happy. Now, here’s a thing that happens that I just, I wanted to talk to you about. Apparently –
Melody: Please.
Sarah: – every one of the brothers has their own wing of this house? What the – ?
Melody: That’s what I thought too!
Sarah: What the hell? How big is this house? Everybody’s got their own wing, so he goes to his own wing and –
Melody: And then he says, When we have visitors, they stay in our wing and we take care of them, and she’s like –
Sarah: How big is this house?
Melody: – Oh wow.
Sarah: What kind of staffing do you have going on here? What is happening?
Melody: I mean, I think it must be bigger than Pemberley, you know what I mean?
Sarah: I mean!
Melody: Geeze. And he says, she says, Oh yeah, this is where you brought all the other ladies?
Sarah: No.
Melody: And he says, Nope, you’re my first guest.
Sarah: Nope.
Melody: My first one!
Sarah: So they go down to dinner, and Hart is there, and Hart is a grump-ass, and Hart is like, I want you to read a treaty, and I, I need you to commit it to memory, because whatever Ian hears or reads or overhears is committed to memory; he has –
Melody: It’s just locked in.
Sarah: – what’s it called? Eidetic? Ayedic?
Melody: I think it’s, yeah –
Together: Eidetic.
Sarah: Eidetic memory –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – he can remember everything. And Beth is like, Oh, do you just sort of keep all of your treaties in Ian’s head?
Melody: Uh-huh.
Sarah: And Ian remembers every word, so it’s advantageous to Hart, and Beth, like, winks at Ian and is like, Well, I’m certain it’s very fascinating conversation over tea, and Ian is, like, smiling at her because she’s annoying –
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: – the shit out of Hart, and he loves it.
Melody: Loves it.
Sarah: [Sings] Loves it!
Melody: Loves it. And she’s very pointedly sort of giving Hart a commentary on the way that he treats Ian.
Sarah: Yeah. She, he, she’s calling out his treatment without being like, You suck.
Melody: Yes.
Sarah: And Ian is in a very familiar pattern to anyone who’s had a weird family: he never questions how his family is. Why would he question how his family treats him? Why would he question the way that his relationship with his brother is? And, and Beth is like –
Melody: Right.
Sarah: – Yeah, I don’t think I like this?
Melody: Well, and the other layer that I think we forgot to, to say, even in the Heaving Bosoms episode, is that he feels incredibly grateful –
Sarah: Yes.
Melody: – and a little bit indebted to Hart because –
Sarah: Yes.
Melody: – his dad was the one who put him into the asylum –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – and –
Together: – Hart –
Melody: – couldn’t get him out while his father was alive, but the very first thing Hart did as soon as their dad fell off his horse and broke his neck was go and get –
Sarah: And get him out.
Melody: – Ian.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And get him out of there, because he never wanted him in there. He knew he didn’t belong there –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody – and, you know, so Ian, Ian endured actual torture –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – for years and years and years, and Hart was the one who liberated him from that.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: So there’s, I mean, I understand this: in his mind he’s like, Yeah, he did me, like, the biggest solid any person can do for the other one?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: Like, sure, I’ll memorize a treaty here and there. Like, it’s –
Sarah: Yeah, it’s fine
Melody: – not that big a deal. I’ll move his stocks around; what’s the deal? [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah. But he is now seeing that Hart is hostile to Beth, and Ian’s loyalty is now with Beth, and Hart –
Melody: Absolutely!
Sarah: – does not like that. There’s also this really great dig at the queen.
Melody: Oh yeah!
Sarah: I love this part: so Beth points out there’s no, I was figuring bagpipes? And Hart was like, No, we don’t have the pipes inside; it’s too loud. And Ian says, Yeah, Dad used to; gave me a headache; hated it. And Hart says, Yeah, we’re not a storybook Scottish family with everyone wearing claymores and longing for the days of Bonnie Prince Charlie. The queen may build a castle at Balmoral and put on plaid, but that does not make her Scottish.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: Ssss! Burn!
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: And Beth’s like, Well, what, what makes someone Scottish? And Hart says, Being born to a Scottish clan and remaining part of the clan inside yourself, and Ian says, You know, having a taste for porridge doesn’t hurt.
Melody: [Laughs] Because Ian’s trying to make sure that he doesn’t go off on a diatribe about being Scots or whatever.
Sarah: Yeah, whatever. He, he does not like how Hart is picking at Beth, but isn’t quite sure how to handle it? But then also is very appreciative of the fact that Beth is not putting up with his shit and is having a –
Melody: Right!
Sarah: – really solid time needling Hart, and –
Melody: Uh-huh.
Sarah: – Ian is just frigging delighted by all of this.
Melody: Absolutely! And she’s so cute, because is, doesn’t she say, like, Ian, I think you just made a joke!
Sarah: Yes! [Laughs]
Melody: Like –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – great job! [Laughs]
Sarah: So Ian agrees to go look at whatever this treaty is, and then Beth is like, Fine, I’ll go in the garden, you go do your treaty business, and then Hart and, goes and finds her in the garden and is a complete prat.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: He’s like, You’re very clever, and, well, clearly you’ve, you’ve fooled my brother and you’ve –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – you’ve fooled Mac and you’ve fooled Isabella, but you won’t, I’m not gullible; you won’t fool me. And she’s like, Why do you, why do you think I’ve bamboozled all of these people? Why do you think I’ve bamboozled Ian? And he goes, Well, didn’t you? And she said, No! I told him like several times that I didn’t want to get married again, and there I was signing a license and – Ian bamboozled me! And Hart is like, Ian is – and then stops. And she’s like, What? He’s mad? Says, No, he’s –
Melody: Right.
Sarah: – he’s vulnerable.
Melody: He’s vulnerable, Hart says, and he’s getting a little misty-eyed.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: He’s really just trying to protect Ian.
Sarah: Yeah. And of course Hart knows exactly how much she’s inherited from Mrs. Barrington, because apparently her stuff is all in some sort of public database or something –
Melody: Oh yeah.
Sarah: – I don’t even understand it – and they’re arguing over Ian, and Hart is continually accusing her of having swindled Ian into marrying her, and she’s like, No! Ian came after me! I went to Paris. I fucked off; he followed me. Yeah, and then –
Melody: Yes, and then she says, like, And why does it seem impossible to you that I could fall in love with him?
Sarah: Yeah! Like, why? And of course Hart knows that her father was a liar, and she’s like, All of these people! How do, how do you all know this? Romance reasons.
Melody: Romance reasons. Yeah.
Sarah: And he says, I will not let a fortune hunter ruin my brother, and, and Beth is like, I’ve never hunted a fortune in my life! And he’s like, Don’t make fun of me; I will have the marriage annulled. And she’s like, Can you not believe that I fell in love with him?
Melody: Ah!
Sarah: He’s like, No. She goes, Ah, I see: you think he’s mad, and you don’t think any woman could love him. And he’s like –
Melody: Oh –
Sarah: – Ian is mad; the commission of lunacy proved it; I was there. Well then, why didn’t you leave him in the asylum?
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: Because I know what they did, and I know what they were doing, and if he hadn’t been made when he went in, he would have been mad by the time he came out.
Melody: I mean, and honestly, fair.
Sarah: Fair! Absolutely fair. And he knows what they did to him in the asylum, and Beth is horrified and, but says, You know, Ian is grateful that you got him out.
Melody: And she’s grateful!
Sarah: Yeah! And Hart turns around, and Ian is standing right there.
Melody: Is standing there!
Sarah: And he says, I told you to leave her alone. And Hart’s like –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – She can’t be trusted. Ian look-, doesn’t look at his brother, but will not move and says, She is my wife, she’s under my protection –
Melody: Right.
Sarah: – and the only way I will let you do anything against this marriage is if you declare me a lunatic again, and Hart is like, that’s a direct hit. Hart is like –
Melody: Oh yeah.
Sarah: – Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Ian’s like, I want her as my wife; she will be my wife; she is a Mackenzie; treat her like one.
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: Boundaries are so hot.
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: Hot. Hot, sexy boundaries.
Melody: Yeah, Beth thinks so too.
Sarah: Yeah. She says, I chose Ian! Whether we live in a grand mansion or a boarding house, and Hart’s like, Or a vicarage? And she’s like, Yeah, well, the vicarage was pretty great, actually. It had rats.
Melody: Yeah! I had a great time in the vicarage! Jesus! Like –
Sarah: It had rats, and she’s like, Yeah, I named the rats. I named all of them, because it made it more bearable to have rats if they had names.
Melody: [Laughs] Awww!
Sarah: And she says, The only rat we deal with now is Inspector Hate-boner. She realizes that Ian is her safe harbor; he is her –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – safe place. She is safe with him, which is not something that she’s really had before, and it’s probably why –
Melody: Right.
Sarah: – she was getting married to Mather, that gross human being.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And she feels protected and safe, even though she needs to be protected from her husband’s brother, ‘cause apparently he’s just, like, very tantrum-y –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – but okay! So then they go into the house, and she sees the picture of his father –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and – [laughs] – she doesn’t know what to say.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: And she goes, Well, he’s quite – [pauses] – hairy.
Melody: Hairy! [Laughs]
Sarah: ‘Cause this is the guy that caused all this pain. He’s all, he –
Melody: Yes.
Sarah: – this is the guy that has caused so much pain to Ian and the rest of the family, and all she can think of to say – ‘cause she doesn’t want to, like, insult him – she’s like, Oh, he’s very hairy. Ian goes, Yep, that’s why we’re all clean-shaven.
Melody: Yep!
Sarah: If he was so bad, why is he hanging on the wall? And he goes, Tradition! Current duke is on the first landing; previous duke on the second; great-grandpa’s after that. Hart doesn’t break the rules, and he, she’s like, You go up the stairs and your dad scours, scowls at you, like, every time?
Melody: That sucks!
Sarah: What the hell?
Melody: That sucks.
Sarah: Okay.
Melody: Let’s not do this!
Sarah: This is why we have our own homes, and at Kilmorgan I have a suite of ten rooms, but, you know, we’ll want more privacy. We each have our own wing! How big is this house?
And Ian tells her that his memory is too good; he can’t forget things, and when he’s with her, all of the bad memories stop. It sounds like he has intrusive thoughts, and –
Melody: Mmm.
Sarah: – when, when he is with her – she says, Your being with me makes it stop. It’s like the bowls: when I touch them and I feel them, everything stops, nothing matters, and you are the same, and that’s why I brought you here, to keep you with me, where you can please make everything stop.
Melody: Where you can please make everything stop.
Sarah: She’s like, Sounds great; tell me how. Let’s do it. Well, the answer is –
Melody: I love her!
Sarah: – Boneville!
Melody: Is it Bone Town?
Sarah: Bone Town!
Melody: Is it maybe something to do with his staff? [Laughs]
Sarah: And some petals. Petals, yes –
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: – staff, petals, arousal. Yep! And you know, then, well, Bone Town!
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: Many, many pages of Bone Town.
Melody: It’s the best.
Sarah: Like, literally they just go to Bone Town, and they wake up, and then Curry brings them breakfast in bed, and then they go back to Bone Town.
Melody: And then they go to Bone Town! They’re –
Sarah: Like –
Melody: Listen! They have a permanent residency there –
Sarah: Yep!
Melody: – they get their mail there –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – and nobody can say anything about it…
Sarah: Nope! The servants are all very happy for Ian, and they’re all very happy to just let them be in Bone Town as long as –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – they would like to be, so yeah!
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: As if this wasn’t enough intimacy, as if this wasn’t –
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: – enough deep, deep intimacy of two individuals, he shows her his collection of vases. Takes her –
Melody: Oh –
Sarah: – to the collection room.
Melody: – my God.
Sarah: Ming bowls all over the place. Little pedestals, all labeled, approximate year. He takes her into a room that represents his special –
Melody: Sanctuary!
Sarah: – sanctuary. This is his home; this is the space where all of the, all of the noise stops, and so he –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – he brings her into his sanctuary and gives her a bowl as a welcome present.
Melody: Oh! And they had made a joke earlier about how, you know, ladies like carriages and –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – all of this stuff –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – and so he says, Do you like the gift? And she says, I, of course I like it! And he goes, Is it better than a carriage? And she says, Of course! It’s way better than a carriage.
Sarah: Like, what are you talking about? It’s like a hundred times better! He’s like, It’s only a bowl, and she says –
Melody: She says, No, it’s important to you!
Sarah: – It’s special to you, and you gave it to me. It’s the best gift in the world.
Melody: Oh! These two!
Sarah: I know!
Melody: These two are too much.
Sarah: So yep. Well, the next day Cam is here. Cam is like the Horse Whisperer, and they find out that Beth has never learned to ride a horse.
Melody: She doesn’t know how to ride a horse!
Sarah: And this – it’s just too much for all of these Scotsmen. They’re just appalled.
Melody: They can’t.
Sarah: Cameron has a son named Daniel. He doesn’t know when to keep his mouth shut, so it’s great. [Laughs]
Melody: I think he’s also book five? [Laughs]
Sarah: Book five or six.
Melody: Something like that?
Sarah: Yeah, he’s going to grow up and have his own sequel bait!
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: You know. But Cam is like, I’m teaching you how to ride, and Beth is like, You know, it’s fine! I don’t have to! And they’re like, No. No, you do. You really –
Melody: I’ve got these feet that are great.
Sarah: You really, really do need to learn how to ride, and she cannot even figure out how to sit on the sidesaddle. She just falls right off the side. Ian catches her –
Melody: Which –
Sarah: – and shoves her back, back up.
Melody: That’s, that’s true. That’s just facts?
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: That is real life why ever sidesaddle? And she’s like –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – Why don’t we ride the regular way? And they’re like, Whoa-ho-ho-ho-ho!
Sarah: With the horse between your legs?
Melody: Our Scottish propriety! Oooh!
Sarah: What kind of woman did you marry?
Melody: It’s –
Sarah: And she’s like, A practical one! This is dumb!
Melody: Yes! Yeah!
Sarah: So she finally figures out, you know, how to just even stay up on the horse without falling off, but Ian has to stay and walk beside her because she’s going to fall off.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: Then! The staff and the stable hands are all just hanging out the windows watching her learn to ride, but they’re cheering her on!
Melody: It’s so cute!
Sarah: It’s so cute.
Melody: Everybody is Team Beth.
Sarah: Yeah! And then they go into dinner, and Beth is sore.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So sore. Forget going to Bone Town with Ian, who is too big and her petals are aflame; that’s nothing.
Melody: Absolutely.
Sarah: Riding sidesaddle – her butt hurts.
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: Y’all, she did too many squats. She –
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: – her glutes are sore, and she tries to sit down, and she can’t even sit –
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: – and she goes, Ee! He says, Are you okay? And she goes, I think Cameron needs to find me a softer horse, and Ian busts out laughing, and she’s like –
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: – Well, you can stop laughing at me! It was only my first lesson. And he goes, Well, you have a very good seat, and Ian kisses her cheek and wipes his eyes and sits down, and Beth looks up, and everyone is staring.
Melody: And silent.
Sarah: And completely silent.
Melody: It’s like they’ve seen a UFO.
Sarah: They’re like, What the hell is happening?
Melody: And she can’t figure out why!
Sarah: Yeah, she’s like, What the hell? They have dinner and, and Hart is like, Ian, I need you. And Beth is like, No! She jumps up, runs out, and chases them, busts into the study and says, Ian is not your servant!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: You summon Ian the same way you summon a footman with your boots, and Hart calls her Mrs. Ackerley again, which –
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: – ugh, gross.
Melody: Don’t do that, Hart!
Sarah: And – [sighs] – and she’s like, He’s your brother. He’s not your secretary.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: You love him; why don’t you show him? And he’s like, Mrs. Ackerley, and she’s like, My name is Beth!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Knock it off! And he grabs her.
Melody: And then Cam and –
Sarah: He grabs her –
Melody: He grabs her!
Sarah: – and Ian is like, Do not touch her, and Hart’s like –
Melody: Uh-uh!
Sarah: – What is wrong with you? And, and Beth apologizes to Ian.
Melody: Yes.
Sarah: And Ian’s, Ian says, Beth, get away from him now, and she runs –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – out of the room. And she’s, like, sitting on the steps, and she’s terrified, and here comes Daniel and like, Hey, Auntie Beth, you need a drink? She’s like, Yeah, I think I do need a drink.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So…
Melody: Cam followed them both in there –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – and so now all three men are shouting at each other.
Sarah: Yeah, and Daniel’s like, I think you need a drink, and she’s like, Yeah, I think I do need a drink, and he’s like –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – bring a dram of whisky. She’s like, Are they always like this? He’s like, Oh yeah, they all shout at each other. You get used to it. She goes, Are you unhappy too? He goes, Nah, ‘cause my mom tried to murder me and my dad, and then she killed herself? I never knew her. Dad’s done his best. And she’s like –
Melody: Wow!
Sarah: – What the hell?
Melody: All these Mackenzies.
Sarah: So much drama!
Melody: These Mackenzies just say stuff out loud!
Sarah: It’s like the Real Housewives of Scotland!
Melody: Seriously.
Sarah: God! All this screaming over dinner all the time! She’s like, Why was everyone staring at me at dinner? And he says, We’ve never heard –
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: – Uncle Ian laugh. Not since before he went in the asylum; none of us have heard it.
Melody: Oh! Right after he got out of the asylum – excuse me –
Sarah: He was silent, and he didn’t speak for months.
Melody: Three months! And –
Sarah: Yeah. Now he’s laughing.
Melody: It’s amazing.
Sarah: So, back to the riding lessons. She’s learning –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – Cam’s going to help her. She learns to ride. And then he takes her on a ride out to a folly in the woods.
Melody: Yep.
Sarah: So –
Melody: But his horse throws a shoe!
Sarah: So he sends her on her own!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And Beth overhears Hart and Ian talking.
Melody: Yeah. They’re, they’re doing that thing that you do in Scotland where you do just stand next to an old ruin –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – of some sort? And –
Sarah: Well, you have to stand next to the old ruin and talk about all of your problems. It’s very –
Melody: Yeah, you have to say –
Sarah: – important.
Melody: – really serious, secret things out loud –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – next to the old ruin. It’s a Scotland thing.
Sarah: Yep!
Melody: And they’re just doing their duty!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: So they talk all about the, not the most recent murder even –
Sarah: But the first murder –
Melody: Yeah, they talk about the first murder that started the whole thing, and –
Sarah: There’s more than one murder, and Detective Inspector Hate-boner has been chasing them since the first, first murder.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Lot of murder. Beth overhears everything.
Melody: And part of it is Ian saying, I saw ev-, like, I, I can remember everything, and Hart’s like –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – What do you remember? And he says, I just remember blood on my hands, and I tried to wipe it off on the walls, and it’s just everywhere. And Hart is like, We’re not going to, you know, basically like, We’re not going to let anybody find out.
Sarah: Yeah. Hart thinks that Ian is confessing to murdering her, and what Ian –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – is saying is, No, I walked in and she was dead, and there was blood, and I had blood on my hands, and I wiped it on the wall.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: And Hart thinks that what Ian is doing is confessing to the murder.
Melody: Right. Which is hilarious, because Ian actually thinks that Hart did that murder.
Sarah: Yeah. They each think that the other one is doing, and they’re trying to protect each other, and the problem is Ian can’t lie, so Hart has to keep him away from the police, and Ian –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – is thinking that Hart killed this girl, and he can’t turn Hart in ‘cause Hart got him out of the asylum and he owes Hart his life.
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: So it’s just messy.
Melody: Well –
Sarah: It’s very messy.
Melody: – yeah, and he’s like, I, there’s also this part of him that’s like, is Hart protecting him from the police just because he wants Ian to keep the secret as well?
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: You know? Like –
Sarah: Exactly.
Melody: – he really thinks that Hart is incredibly motivated by his own, you know, selfish pursuits.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And that’s true to an extent, but Ian –
Sarah: Yeah, it’s absolutely true.
Melody: Yeah, but Ian can’t see that that does extend to him.
Sarah: And even though we have a character who cannot lie, and even though we have a character who’s in charge of everybody, both of these people are talking past each other, and Beth overhears the whole thing.
Melody: Right. So then she goes back to the house, and she’s, like, sitting in bed, right?
Sarah: Totally numb.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: And closes her eyes, pretends to be asleep when Ian comes in. So in the morning he’s like, Are you sick? No. Did, did you fall down? No. And she looks at him – because we’re not having any Big Misunderstandings in this book; no we are not – she goes –
Melody: No. Absolutely not.
Sarah: – Please tell me that, what happened that night, and he’s like, I really don’t want to, and she’s like –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – I need to know.
Melody: And she says, I heard you yesterday.
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: It was a whoopsie –
Sarah: I heard you.
Melody: – I got out of there as soon as I could, but I heard you.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: So I need to, I need to know what blood is all over my hands means. Ian’s torn up because he couldn’t protect her. So Lily, the girl who recently got, got murdered –
Sarah: So there’s –
Melody: – he was –
Sarah: Let me, let us, let us recap the murders. So there’s Sally –
Melody: Do that! Yeah.
Sarah: – there’s Sally, and there’s Lily. So Sally –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – died first, and that’s the one with the blood on the walls, and Hart and Ian were both present in the building when –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – Sally was killed, and they both think the other one did it.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And then a few years later, right be-, right at the start of this book, Lily is killed.
Melody: And, and Ian’s been protecting Lily for the past five years.
Sarah: Yes.
Melody: He’s, like –
Sarah: He’s been hiding her.
Melody: – he’s given her a – he thought he was hiding her from Hart!
Sarah: Yeah. He thinks that Hart did it, and so he’s hiding Lily from Hart, but he’s also trying not to tell Hart this. Then Lily dies, and Mather followed Ian and found out –
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: – the next day that somebody died at the building that he’d followed Hart, followed Ian to, so Mather tells Detective Hate-boner, so now Detective Hate-boner is like, I’m going to get you guys for two murders now!
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: Not just one, two!
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: Ha-ha-ha!
Melody: Ian the Madman has done two murders now, and I’m going to prove it no matter what.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And so now Ian is sitting there thinking, I cannot tell you, because the last woman who knew what happened is now dead –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – and I can’t lose you.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: I’m not going to let anything bad happen to you, so you can’t know, and you have to stop this. You have to stop looking into it –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – you have to stop being curious; you have to leave it alone. And she’s very like, Well, we can prove you didn’t do it!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: That’s the smartest way to go about this!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: We just prove you didn’t do it and it’s fine!
Sarah: Yeah, we can just investigate and, and prove it!
Melody: And he’s like, Absolutely not. Like, and he, and he has, he has a meltdown because he’s thinking about her being hurt and him not being able to protect her.
Sarah: And he sees Sally’s dead body again, but then –
Melody: Mmm.
Sarah: – sees Beth’s face instead, and he starts to panic –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and he is just not in a good place.
Melody: No, and so he leaves the room.
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: He goes storming out of the house. He gets a couple of pistols –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – and then he’s like, Curry, load these for me, and Curry’s very like, Absolutely not; I will not be doing that. I don’t care how much you pay me. So then he grabs a little under gardener boy and drags him out to a field, and he’s like, Load these for me, and then it seems as though he just keeps on shooting the guns into a field –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – for over an hour minimum.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: He gets blisters on his hands. He can sort of hear people shouting around him. He can, he knows sort of that the little gardener boy is sobbing –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – as he’s loading all these guns.
Sarah: Yeah. They’re all terrified of him, and they can’t get him to stop, and they can’t reach him, and then –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – Beth comes to him and says, Ian, and gets him out of that state.
Melody: Just the one softly spoken, Ian. And it cuts through everything.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And that’s when he realizes, like, the state he’s in and the fact that it’s gone from afternoon to evening.
Sarah: Yeah. And his hands are bleeding, and everyone around him is, is upset, and Beth just cuts through all of the noise.
Melody: So he takes her back to the house, and they do go to Bone Town –
Sarah: Yep!
Melody: – okay, because that’s, that’s what –
Sarah: Yep!
Melody: – happens. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yep. These two are still extremely horny for each other.
Melody: Yeah! It’s therapy!
Sarah: Two murders, some drama, some problems – nope! They are still very, very horny.
Melody: But when Beth wakes up, Ian’s gone.
Sarah: She’s like, oh, okay!
Melody: I’m going to use this opportunity!
Sarah: Yeah! When you, you told me that when he disappears for a few days, it could be days and days, and I’m just going to take a quick trip. Let’s –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: You know, pack my stuff; let’s go. And then she says, I need to send a telegram to Inspector Fellows at Scotland Yard.
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: She is reaching out –
Melody: Dun-dun-dun!
Sarah: – to Detective Inspector Hate-boner. Dun-dun-dun!
Melody: And, and she was told in no uncertain terms that she is never to contact him again.
Sarah: Yeah. Detective Inspector Hate-boner does indeed show up to talk to Beth.
Melody: Yeah! She says, Tell me everything.
Sarah: Tell me everything you know.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: Tell me everything. And so –
Melody: And he’s like, This is supposed to be the other way around. I’m the detective. And she’s like, Dut-dut-dut-dut! Tell me everything.
Sarah: I, I don’t care!
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: So if you would like to know what I know, you tell me what you know first.
Melody: Right!
Sarah: And he’s like, This is really gruesome! And she’s like, I can handle it. Let’s go.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So he says the whole thing, that five years ago a woman named Sally Tate had been stabbed through the heart with a knife.
Melody: With a knife this time.
Sarah: With a knife, not the scissors. And her blood was all over the walls, somebody had smeared it all over the walls, and the owner of the home was a Mrs. Palmer, and Mrs. Palmer finally confesses that the people who had been in the house were Hart and Ian.
Melody: And three other dudes who don’t matter.
Sarah: Three other dudes that don’t matter. They all left well before the murder happened; when the murder happened Ian and Hart were there.
Melody: And Sally had been talking to Ian all night.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And she was like, What? He was talking to her? Like, for an extended period –
Sarah: Beth says, Excuse me, you’re calling them Ian and Hart instead of his Lordship and his Grace.
Melody: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Sarah: And Fellows is like, Well, you know, I think about them a lot, and she’s like –
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: – Hmm, I wonder why that is! And he’s like –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – Because they’re bad! They’re blights on society! They spend money! They’re useless! And Beth is just staring at him, and Fellows is very embarrassed, as he should be, because clearly –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – he’s a, he’s a superfan! So you, you interviewed all of these gentlemen, but not Ian, and why don’t you suspect the other guys? Well, they’re respectable.
Melody: Yeah, and she’s like, So you’re saying that because Ian’s, what, crazy?
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: That he had to do it?
Sarah: And he’s like, Yeah, well, his servants are lying when they cover for him. Here is the breakdown of what happened; here’s where everyone was –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – at what time. Sally convinced Ian to go upstairs with her, and they were upstairs for fifteen minutes! And she’s like, Ian was talking to somebody for fifteen minutes? The devil you say! And Fellows is like –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – Oh, I think Sally did most of the talking, implying that, you know, Ian took her upstairs to go to Bone Town.
Melody: Well, well, so that was really interesting to me, though, because first it was Ian sat still and had a conversation with someone, an extended conversation with someone –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – and then went upstairs with her.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: Like, Ian doesn’t get persuaded to do anything. If, if he –
Sarah: No, you can’t convince him to do anything.
Melody: Yeah, if he wanted to –
Sarah: If he doesn’t want to do it, he’s not doing it!
Melody: – fuck her, he, it would have been first thing: Let’s go upstairs.
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: So this is absolutely preposterous.
Sarah: This is just silly and completely impossible. Like, there’s just –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – this doesn’t add up. But Fellows is like, Nope, nope, that’s what happened!
Melody: And she’s like, I think you’ve really been blinded.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: Like, you’re not seeing, you’re not seeing the details that matter because you’re so focused on the Mackenzies.
Sarah: Yeah, you’ve clearly missed whoever actually did this, because it wasn’t Ian, and it wasn’t Hart.
Melody: Right. Right.
Sarah: And so according to Mrs. Palmer, that night Hart came back at about one, waited for Ian, who came down at two, and then they departed together, but one of the maids says that Hart went upstairs and then rushed out later on his own, and when they pressed the maid, she, well, she got really confused and couldn’t swear to anything, but then, after Mrs. Palmer got five minutes with that maid by herself, the maid changed her story and said that Hart and Ian definitely left together at two, and –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – Beth was like, Yeah, that is kind of suspicious; clearly that maid had been pressured to say that. And what did Ian say? And Fellows says, Well, I was never able to interview Ian until two weeks later, and by then he could not remember. And –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – Beth knows that’s a lie, because Ian remembers everything, and she realizes –
Melody: Yep!
Sarah: – Ian is protecting Hart because Ian thinks Hart killed this woman and doesn’t want –
Melody: Yeaahh.
Sarah: – to him, his brother. He doesn’t want to be the one to tell, Yeah, my brother murdered this girl. Oh, and, and Beth does tell Fellows, You are a pillock. You’re an idiot. You’ve been so obsessed –
Melody: Oh yeah.
Sarah: – with them, you let the actual murdered get away. What the hell is wrong with you? Beth and her servant, her, her, her maid, Katie, are going to go to the East End, because that’s where she used to live, and she’s going to go find some answers.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: She’s got some connections –
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: – and she thinks that she can get some info!
Sarah: Yeah! And off they go. They pass the vicarage, they pass the church, and then they go into, it’s like a hall.
Melody: The boarding house?
Sarah: It’s like a hall.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. And it’s –
Melody: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah: – it’s like a place where you can get a, a meal, and one of the young women who’s there is like, Oh! It’s the missus!
Melody: She reconnect- –
Sarah: I recognize –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: I recognize you! So this is Molly.
Melody: She – aw! – reconnects with Molly. Molly’s great.
Sarah: Yep! And she’s like, Molly, I, I, I need some help. So she pulls Molly aside and she explains the whole story, and she gives her some coins, and she’s like, I need to know about this. She’s like, Oh, okay. I think I might know somebody who used to work there, and they got married –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and are now very rich, but I bet I could get her to talk to me, and Beth’s like, Well, here, have some more coins and get her to talk to me.
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: And Molly’s like, Yeah, I’m on it; no worries.
Melody: Oh, it’s great!
Sarah: I love a person with agency.
Melody: God, me too!
Sarah: Right?
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: It’s just like, I’m not going to have anyone else solve my problems for me; I’m going to go and take care of this.
Melody: But she goes home and she does find out her husband’s there.
Sarah: Yeah, and she goes back to Mrs. Barrington’s house, which is the house that she owns. She doesn’t go to Ian’s house; she doesn’t go to any of the properties that they own. She goes to the house that she owns, which is old and musty and airless and, and dark and kind of smells, and Ian finds her there.
Melody: And Ian knew.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: They’re like, Why wouldn’t she go to one of our houses? And he’s like, No, this is where she would feel comfortable. She lived here.
Sarah: This is where she would feel safe. And –
Melody: Oh, he’s big mad.
Sarah: He’s big mad.
Melody: And he’s terrified. Because now –
Sarah: He’s terrified!
Melody: – the thing is really, the crux of it is, if you know, I can’t protect you.
Sarah: Why would I be in trouble because some guy who was there or his mistress or Mrs. Palmer, and she looks and she realizes, oh –
Melody: Oh.
Sarah: – Ian has been covering for Hart, and that’s when she really fully understands –
Melody: You think Hart did it.
Sarah: – and Ian finally tells her –
Melody: Breaks down.
Sarah: – what he has been keeping a secret that he’s been holding just to himself.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So Sally, it turns out, had boasted that she knew secrets that would ruin Hart and ruin him politically, and Hart’s interest is politics. In the middle of having sex with Sally, she had made Ian so angry about how she was going to blackmail Hart that Ian had just pulled out, grabbed his clothes and bailed.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: He felt himself –
Melody: So funny!
Sarah: – getting angry, and he left, which is smart.
Melody: Yes!
Sarah: So he walked around the house and walked around the house, searching for Hart, and then once he calmed down he went back to Sally’s room and opened the door and saw Hart with Sally on the sofa at the end of the bed. And Hart was taking –
Melody: And he said –
Sarah: – a knife away from her.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: She swore at him, and he pressed her throat until she quieted and laughed, and Beth was like, But wait, Sally wasn’t strangled! And he goes, No.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: They like to – they don’t call it this, but basically Hart and Sally were into autoerotic asphys-, asphys-, asphyxiation.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: I can say that, yeah.
Melody: He’s like, It’s a sex thing.
Sarah: It’s a sex thing. Hart –
Melody: He says, The climax is harder. So I think one of the reasons that it’s planted early that Mather would tell Hart something like this in order to ingratiate himself, that he likes to be submissive, is because –
Sarah: He knows.
Melody: – Hart was a dominant to all the women who lived in that house.
Sarah: And Beth says, But you didn’t see him kill her. Well, Ian saw them together, and he left them to it, ‘cause he knows they were going to go to Bone Town, and he thought, well, if anyone could talk Sally out of blackmailing him, Hart would, so I would just go home. But I left my watch on her table, so I went downstairs, had some whisky. I heard Hart rush out the door, and I went back upstairs, and I found Sally, and she was dead.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And so –
Melody: And when he was, like, checking her he got her blood on his hands –
Together: – and then he tried to wipe it on the wall –
Melody: – ‘cause he was horrified.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: And then –
Sarah: It turns –
Melody: – Hart came back –
Sarah: Hart came –
Melody: – and hustled him out of there.
Sarah: Yes, because Hart left the room once he’d gotten Sally to agree not to blackmail him, and then had his valet dress and clean up, and when he came back from dressing and cleaning up himself in another room, he came back in and Sally was dead!
Melody: Uh-huh.
Sarah: So Hart says that he found Sally dead, and Ian says that he found Sally dead. Hart thinks Ian did it, Ian thinks Hart did it, and they’re very messily and clumsily covering for each other, and they’re doing a terrible job.
Melody: And neither of them have actually said those words out loud.
Sarah: No, neither of them have –
Melody: If – they’ve never talked about it –
Sarah: They’ve been talking past each other.
Melody: – at all.
Sarah: They’ve all been talking past each other…
Melody: And I love her because she says, There’s no way he did it. There’s no way Hart did it.
Sarah: No.
Melody: And Ian’s like, You don’t know Hart; he’s ruthless when he wants something. He is ruthless; he’ll do anything.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: And she goes, No, he won’t.
Sarah: No.
Melody: He would never, ever injure you.
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
Melody: If he was going to kill Sally, if he really wanted to do that, he would make sure you were as far away as humanly possible –
Sarah: Yes.
Melody: – not in the house with him; that’s nonsense!
Sarah: No, Hart would never endanger him like that.
Melody: Never!
Sarah: Because he knew, he would know that the first person they would blame was Ian, so he would protect Ian.
Melody: Absolutely!
Sarah: If he was planning on killing somebody, he wouldn’t do it spontaneously, and he would never do it in a way that would endanger Ian. So –
Melody: Ian can’t see that still.
Sarah: Nope.
Melody: Ian’s like, No, he’s selfish. It’s, he’s self-motivated, and that’s all, and, you know, you have to stay away from him, and you have to stop this, because I can’t protect you if you know.
Sarah: Yeah. Beth is like, All right, so what about, what about Lily? Well –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – she was looking in the room, she saw Hart with Sally, and she swore she never saw Hart stab her, but I couldn’t tell whether she was lying, I couldn’t risk her going to the police, so we hid her, and five years later she died. So you think that Hart – so Beth says, Okay, so you think Hart found Lily and killed her, and Ian says, Yes. And Beth, the smartest person in the room, says, Wow, what a mess.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Yes, darling, it’s a big ol’ mess. You are right.
Melody: Big ol’ mess.
Sarah: Big, huge mess. So Fellows is determined that one of them is doing it; Hart is tearing himself apart because he thinks Ian did it; Ian is just beside himself ‘cause he thinks Hart did it; and Sally’s, and, and, and Sally is dead and Lily is dead, so there’s no way to figure it out; except Beth is like, Actually, I, I think, I think I can figure it out. That’s why I’m here.
Melody: Yeah, there was one other person there!
Sarah: Yeah! So –
Melody: And he says, No, you have to promise me you will not look into this anymore, and the – [laughs] – the narration is actually pretty, pretty shady. It’s so funny –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – because the way that it’s worded is like, She agreed, and he never thought once that she agreed too fast. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yep! So –
Melody: It was too easy to convince her to stop. [Laughs]
Sarah: And then, then we find out why Ian was in the asylum to begin with.
Melody: Ohhh, fuck-stick!
Sarah: Yeah. So the reason why Ian is so torn up about having the idea that his brother killed Sally was that he had been hiding in his father’s study when his parents had an argument, and his father had reached up and sha-, grabbed his wife around her neck and shaken her and squeezed, and then she went limp, and Ian watched his father kill his mother.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And then Ian’s father recognized that Ian was in the room and shook him the way that he had shaken Ian’s mother and said –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – You will not tell anyone. Why won’t you talk to me? Why won’t you look at me? And the next day he condemned him as a lunatic to the asylum.
Melody: Because he knows he can’t lie.
Sarah: He knows he can’t lie, and he knows that his son would tell what had happened.
Melody: He would – yeah, so he had to discredit him –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – by making him a lunatic and putting him away where nobody would ever listen to him ever again.
Sarah: And then Ian sees himself in his father: I have rages like that. So Hart is just as ruthless as our father, but he doesn’t rage.
Melody: [Sighs]
Sarah: I am not ruthless –
Melody: I rage.
Sarah: – but I rage. Beth is like, Something is not right here; something does not add up. And then –
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: – dun-dun-duhhh! Katie says, Hey, somebody’s here.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: And it turns out this is Sylvia. Sylvia’s on the back stairs ‘cause the cook won’t let her in, and Sylvia’s like, I want to sit in the parlor, and I want your servants waiting on me or I won’t talk, and Katie’s like, The fuck you will! You sit there and you shut up, and you tell my mistress what she needs. You, you just stop.
Melody: Katie is the most adorable Irish bulldog this whole book. She doesn’t take shit from Mac; she will not let anybody talk to her mistress like that. [Laughs]
Sarah: Beth is like, Okay. Sylvia, I know you know everything, and it’s very easy to flatter Sylvia. Sylvia’s like –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – you’re right; I know all about it. Well, it turns out that Mrs. Palmer was Hart’s mistress, and Mrs. Palmer would do anything for Hart. Well, it turns out Sylvia worked in the house, and Sylvia drops a very important piece of information.
Melody: Ooh-la-la!
Sarah: Sally and Lily were lovers!
Melody: Ooh, they were together. They were going to run away.
Sarah: They were going to run away together. Sally was mad because she didn’t like how much of the money that she made that Mrs. Palmer was taking, ‘cause she wanted to buy a property so she and Lily could run away and live happily ever after.
Melody: And so they were planning to, you get the money from Hart by blackmailing him –
Sarah: Yep, that’s –
Melody: – and then running away. That’s what the money is for.
Sarah: That was the plan. They were going to run away, take the blackmail money and run away together and live together out in the country, and Sylvia’s like, Ooh, gross, that’s nasty, and, and –
[Laughter]
Sarah: – Beth is like, Thank you very much for your help, it’s been lovely talking to you, bye.
Melody: Good-bye!
Sarah: Yep!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Well, it turns out that Beth has gone down to High Holborn to talk to Mrs. Palmer, which is a bad idea.
Melody: Bad idea!
Sarah: Bad idea!
Melody: Good Lord! But, so you, we think that she’s going straight there.
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: And Ian finds out pretty much immediately, and so he’s like, All right, let’s go. Everybody, gather the horses –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – like, round up the men.
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: We’re going to High Holborn and –
Sarah: Yep.
Melody: – we’re going to save her or whatever.
Sarah: Yep, and we’re at about seventy-six percent of this book, so you know –
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: – it’s on.
Melody: But he gets there –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Melody: – and he’s shocked that his wife is not there –
Sarah: Mm-mm.
Melody: – but Hart is.
Sarah: Mm-hmm! Ian, I thought you would arrive. Come talk to me. Dun-dun-duh! Well, it turns out that Beth has actually gone to pick up Detective Inspector Hate-boner because he needs –
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: – to be there for this whole, you know, revel-, you know, reveal.
Melody: For it to be official, yeah!
Sarah: Yeah! I mean, she needs him to be there for the reveal. So they’re in the carriage, and Fellows is like, Why do you think I didn’t do my job? What makes you think I didn’t do this correctly? And she says, Well, you missed something because –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – you have a hate boner for the Mackenzies.
Melody: My man-brain is better at parsing this stuff.
Sarah: Yeah!
[Laughter]
Sarah: Your weak little girl-brain just doesn’t understand.
Melody: God!
Sarah: Mm-hmm, yep!
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: Well, Beth is like, I don’t frigging think so, and even Fellows is like, Ugh, women!
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: Everyone’s mad at the women. Beth’s like, Don’t care!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So Ian’s like, Where’s Beth? And Hart’s like, Well, she’s not here.
Melody: I don’t know!
Sarah: Well then I can’t talk to you. Well, I want to talk to you about Beth.
Melody: Yeah! Because he’s like, It’s really not great that your wife is so determined to find out about the murder you did!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: Except he won’t say that out loud.
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: And, and meanwhile –
Sarah: And Ian, Ian doesn’t read subtext! He doesn’t, he can’t parse what, what Hart’s saying. He can’t pick up what Hart’s putting down, so he’s just –
Melody: I don’t think a neurotypical person would be able –
Sarah: No.
Melody: – to pick up what Hart’s putting down.
Sarah: Hart is not good at this.
Melody: No!
Sarah: He’s very bad at it.
Melody: He’s like, I think we finally have to talk about it.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: We have to finally talk about that night.
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: And they find out that the other, each of them thinks the other did it!
Sarah: Yeah!
Melody: And they’re like, We’re such idiots!…
Sarah: It’s like, it’s like the Spiderman meme: they’re all pointing at each other, and they’re like –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – wait! No, it wasn’t you? No, it wasn’t you? How is it? Well, who the fuck was it? Oh dear.
Melody: Yeah! We have to figure out who it was, and meanwhile Mrs. Palmer is just pouring drinks and walking around –
Sarah: [Hums jaunty little tune]
Melody: – doing all the business. Beth gets there –
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: – with Detective Fellows.
Sarah: Yep! And he’s like, For fuck’s sake, Beth, what are you doing?
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: He’s not here to arrest you, we’re here to investigate, and Ian’s like, Nope, you’ve got to go. You’ve got to go, you’ve got to go, and Beth is like, Have you really talked about Mrs. Palmer, though?
Melody: Uh-huh.
Sarah: Have you looked at Mrs. Palmer? It’s her house; she would have –
Melody: Uh-huh.
Sarah: – opportunity. Ian’s like, No?
Melody: Okay. [Laughs]
Sarah: No, I haven’t talked about Mrs. Palmer. And then a scream, so they all go running in.
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: A scream!
Melody: A scream pierces the night!
Sarah: Dun-dun-duh! Turns out it’s Katie; she’s screaming.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: So Katie, Ian –
Melody: Katie saw Cam, and he’s just real tall.
Sarah: Yeah.
Melody: She thought a bear was coming at her.
Sarah: Yeah, you know, ahhh! So Katie and Ian and Inspector Fellows go running in through the house, and someone is rushing through the hallway.
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: And then somebody runs down the stairs, and Beth hears it, so she starts to chase them, and she’s like, Ian! Inspector! This way! So she chases this person down the back stairs, grabs the woman, grabs her wrist, and it’s Mrs. Palmer.
Melody: And Mrs. Palmer’s like, You need to leave well enough alone. Beth is like, Absolutely not. I’m going to hold you here until they find you, and Mrs. Palmer’s like, My knife says different.
Sarah: And stabs her. Beth is then kidnapped by Mrs. Palmer and has been stabbed.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: And Beth convinces her to go into the vicarage that she used to live in –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – ‘cause she knows that the door is going to be open – and this is the scene that really got me: Beth is like, she’s, things are going gray; she’s in terrible pain; she’s sweaty; she’s coughing; she’s, like, she’s in bad shape; but does she convince Mrs. Palmer to tell her of her dastardly plan? Yes! Yes, she does.
Melody: Of course she does!
Sarah: Yep! And she’s like, You’re going to let Ian hang, and she’s like, I don’t care; I want, I want Hart to be saved. I don’t care who dies –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – it has to be, it has to be Hart. And Beth goes, Did you kill Lily Martin? And Beth, Mrs. Palmer’s like, Of course I killed her! She was a witness to Sally’s murder. So you think Hart killed Sally. No. Hart was really angry with Sally because Sally was going to try to blackmail her, blackmail him.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: It wasn’t Mrs. Palmer that killed Sally.
Melody: Mm-mm.
Sarah: It was Lily.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Lily got dumped by Sally, and Sally was going to run off. Lily was the one –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – who killed Sally. Mrs. Palmer’s like, Look, I’m done talking to you. You’ve got all the information. You’re going to die. And Beth’s like, You should stay and explain. She grabs Beth and hauls her up by the hair and is shaking her –
Melody: Mm!
Sarah: – and Beth looks past her and sees the lectern door behind the altar squeak and –
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: – thinks that she sees her dead husband standing in it in his cassock and thinks, and thinks that he is saying to her, Be brave, be brave; it’s almost over.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So she thinks she sees her dead husband. And then guess who walks in.
Melody: [Gasps] It’s Ian!
Sarah: Dun-da-dah!
Melody: It’s Ian, it’s Ian, it’s Ian!
Sarah: And Ian and Hart and Cameron and Mist-, and Inspector Fellows, and they all bust in, and she is just bleeding everywhere, and Mrs. Palmer is shrieking, and then Mrs. Palmer –
Melody: [Sighs]
Sarah: – grabs her own knife and stabs herself in the heart.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And Hart, Hart cradles her, and she’s like, I love you. I’m so sorry; I love you; it was always you. And Hart says, I won’t leave you, I won’t leave you, and Mrs. Palmer dies.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: But Beth’s in bad shape. Real, real bad. And what happens –
Melody: Real bad.
Sarah: – in England-times when you get shot or when you get stabbed?
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: There’s a fever. Big –
Melody: We get a sickbed scene is what happens!
Sarah: – sickbed, and so there’s a fever –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – and she is delirious.
Melody: And Ian will not leave her side.
Sarah: Nope. He washes her, he tries to get her to eat, and because Ian has read everything everywhere he’s like a giant repository of every possible piece of medical information in the world. He’s going to try everything.
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: There’s leeches; there’s broth; there’s cold water; there’s trying to wake her up; there’s syringes; there’s oils. He is trying everything to try to keep her alive.
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: And then he realizes that the sixth day, the fever has not broken, and he thinks she’s going to die, and he whispers, Is this what love feels like? I don’t like it; it hurts too much.
Melody: Oh! It hurts too much.
Sarah: Chapter twenty-two: She wakes up!
Melody: Oh!
Sarah: And she’s hungry!
Melody: Huzzah.
Sarah: Huzzah! The fever has broken; she wakes up; all is forgiven. He’s had it out with Hart. He’s forgiven Beth. She wakes up and she’s feeling better. The fever has broken –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and she’s really frigging hungry. [Laughs]
Melody: Not – I mean, she’s hungry for food, and she’s for, hungry for that dick.
Sarah: And then they kiss, and I’ve got to say –
Melody: Yeah, tell me everything.
Sarah: Mmm.
Melody: That’s, wow.
Sarah: Mmm?
Melody: That’s a big wow.
Sarah: She’s had a fever, she’s been delirious for six days, and they’re kissing?
Melody: She does the same thing! She pushes him away and she’s like, I’m disgusting.
Sarah: He’s like, I don’t care!
Melody: And he’s like, No.
Sarah: I’m like, I – okay, as the reader, I just need to say I care.
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: I just need to say that I care about this!
Melody: Uh-huh!
Sarah: It’s, it’s kind of grossing me out. And then we solve –
Melody: Come on.
Sarah: – the mystery of Inspector Fellows and his –
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: – and his raging hate boner.
Melody: And we do it with a costume beard.
Sarah: Yes! Of course!
Melody: [Laughs]
Sarah: She needed to have a long chat with Inspector Fellows, and he was going to come to Scotland, and she was going to make it happen, and so, well, it did!
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: And she got a costume beard, and she holds it up to Fellows’s face in front of everyone and says, Does he look familiar? Hello? Hello!
Melody: [Laughs] Everybody’s like, crickets, crickets. Uh, no? And then she goes, Come on, he’s your half-brother. God.
Sarah: He looks like your dad, for fuck’s sake, and they’re all like –
Melody: Yeah! [Laughs]
Sarah: – Whaaat? So it turns out that terrible father had also been fucking around on their mom, and Fellows was his half-brother, and that’s why he hates them all so much.
Melody: Mm-hmm! Because –
Sarah: He’s your half-brother, for fuck’s sake.
Melody: Yeah, and he’s older than Hart, so if –
Sarah: It had been –
Melody: – England didn’t have England-times laws –
Sarah: And –
Melody: – he would have gotten the dukedom, not Hart.
Sarah: He would have been the dukedom, he would have gotten the dukedom, not Hart, and everything would have been different, and his, he and his mother grew up very poor, and Hart is like, Well, no, actually; we’re going to take care of you, and we’re going to take care of your mother, and Fellows is like, The fuck you will! And Hart’s like, No. If my father abandoned her, she deserves to live in a palace, and we –
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: – need to fix this now. You are one of us.
Melody: Yeah, and Hart’s like, I’m not taking your pity, and he’s like, It’s not pity; I’m just doing the right thing.
Sarah: Fellows is like, I don’t want anything from you; Hart’s like, Too bad! Tough shit!
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: Yeah! It, it’s kind of wild to me that Hart accepts Fellows much easier than he accepted Beth.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: So then there’s this big gathering and his, and Fellows brings his mom.
Melody: Well, because Ian proposes to Beth again! And Beth is like, We’re married, darling. It’s done!
Sarah: We already did this?
Melody: And he’s like, No! We’re going to have a big ol’ wedding, and you’re going to be in a white dress, and it’s going to be in Scotland, and there’s going to be lilies of the valley, and you told me that ladies want that kind of thing.
Sarah: So you’re going to have it.
Melody: And she’s like, Okay!
Sarah: So they invite Fellows and Fellows’s mom! And the Inspector’s like, I can’t believe you’re just offering me all this luxury to keep me quiet, and Beth is like, They’re trying to make it up for you, and Mac says, We hate our father more than you ever could, and he abandoned you. We had to live with his ass.
Melody: Yeah!
Sarah: Yeah, fuck that guy! So –
Melody: Mm-hmm!
Sarah: – there’s a big ol’ wedding, and then they get on a train –
Melody: Wow!
Sarah: – to go on their honeymoon. Again.
Melody: So sweet!
Sarah: Another honeymoon! And Ian tells Beth that he loves her.
Melody: [Gasps]
Sarah: He understands what love is because he understands how he feels about her.
Melody: And then they do some train Bone Town!
Sarah: And now it’s –
Melody: They do some transportation Bone Town times!
Sarah: Melody, there’s thrusting.
Melody: Oh yeah!
Sarah: And some seed bursting. And –
Melody: Definitely there’s all over the place.
Sarah: And that’s the end.
Melody: It’s beautiful.
Sarah: Beautiful! Yay!
Melody: It’s beautiful, and they live happily in their fluids for the rest of their lives.
[Laughter]
Melody: This book was so good!
Sarah: [Laughs]
Melody: I lost my mind over this book.
Sarah: They’re so horny! They’re just –
Melody: They’re so horny.
Sarah: – so horny. They are the most horny.
Melody: And! I think I also really liked it because I’ve never seen this premise before. The fact that he stole somebody else’s fiancée, but that wasn’t even the conflict?
Sarah: No! That wasn’t even the main conflict. That was like a –
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: – piece of it.
Melody: I generally don’t like insta-love, but I bought it hard here, and it worked for me so well. Yeah.
Sarah: And there was really good sustained building sexual tension, too.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: Yep, that was all right.
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: I was all right with that part.
Thank you for inviting me to split this episode with you and for having me read this.
Melody: Oh my God!
Sarah: I’ve never read this one before. I’ve heard about it a million times, but I’d never read it before. I invite anyone who is listening, though, to email us and let us know what we should read together again in the future!
Melody: Ooh, yeah! Do that!
Sarah: ‘Cause we’ve had, we’ve had horny monster-fucking in the theater –
Melody: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: – and now we’ve had a 2009 historical romance by Jennifer Ashley.
Melody: Mm-hmm. Well, we did Nicholas together.
Sarah: Oh yes! The Lords of Satyr!
Melody: That was historical and banana-town bonkers paranormal.
Sarah: Oh, and space! We did space too, so this is four!
Melody: And we did Morning Glory Milking Farm.
Sarah: Yes!
Melody: Yeah.
Sarah: We’re on a roll here!
Melody: We really are, yeah!
Sarah: This has been great!
Melody: We’re knocking it out of the park! [Laughs]
Sarah: Nah, we’re, we’re just kicking ass, taking names. Thank you!
[music]
Sarah: And that brings us to the end of a very long two-part conversation! I hope you enjoyed it. If you think of another book that you would like us to discuss, please! Please let me know. You can tweet at me if Twitter is still up. You can also email me at [email protected].
I always end with a joke. This week the joke is from Emily, and this is dedicated to Varian.
Did you hear about the man who squirted catsup in his eye?
Yeah, the guy who squirted catsup in his eye?
He now has Heinz sight.
[Laughs] As someone from Pittsburgh, where Heinz catsup is made, that makes me very happy! And did members of the podcast Discord tell their eye doctors this joke? Yes, they did. And did I also email this to my eye doctor? Yes, in fact; yes, I did. So if you know anyone who is in the optical industry, now you have a great joke for them.
On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very, very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week.
Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.
[end of music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Wow, I haven’t read this book since I edited it, but you make me want to dive in all over again. It’s definitely one of my all-time faves.
This is a book I’ve read numerous times; you’re tempting me to read it again!
This was delightful!! I read the book long ago but it was nice having the details all dragged back into mind. I think this was my first Jennifer Ashley.
I just finished this book. I did like it for the most part. The stabbing incident went on for a long time. The heroine should have been dead long before she reached the church. She is dragged into a carriage. Driven all over the area, with which she was familiar, so knew exactly where she was while bleeding out.
I am uncertain as to why Ian would know exactly where to find her, but probably has to do with his fantastic memory. I was reading very late at night, I may have missed the reason. (thank goodness it was a Friday night)
Overall I did enjoy the book. I just have a problem with drawn out drama in novels. I speed read in most, but not in this one. I read every word.