531. Solving Murder in Space with Mur Lafferty

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Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 531 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell. Today my guest is Mur Lafferty. Now, you’ve heard Amanda and me talking about Station Eternity, which is book one in the Midsolar Murders series – I love that series title so much! Well, Amanda and I both really, really liked the book, and so we asked the author a whole bunch of questions! So do not worry, this is a spoiler-free conversation, but I really hope it makes you curious about the book, because who doesn’t want to be kidnapped by aliens and solve murder in space, right? Right!

I will have links to all of the books that we talk about and the other episodes of the podcast that we talk about and all the things that you might want to look up: they’ll be in the show notes where I always put them at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.

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All right, let’s do this podcast. We’re going to go get kidnapped by aliens and go to space and solve a murder, as you do. On with the podcast.

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Sarah: Okay, is your background you about to be hit on the head with a chair wielded by a skeleton?

Mur Lafferty: No – well, I’m not in the background; I’m in the – this is the foreground. In the back there is a skeleton wielding a chair. It’s a piece of Blaseball fan art that my kid did that I was very, very proud of, so –

Sarah: It’s awesome!

Mur: Yeah, I was, I was – I mean, they did a chair, so it’s like –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: – chairs are hard, so I –

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Mur: – I was, it’s one of my favorite backgrounds, so.

Sarah: It’s a fab- –

Mur: Vaping, vaping skeleton, actually, as you can see.

Amanda: Yeah, I was like, is that, like, a blunt in its mouth? I was trying to figure out what it was! [Laughs]

Mur: It’s a vape pen.

Sarah: As you do.

Mur: Yeah, it’s –

Amanda: It’s a little, little, like, eye-spark, as he’s really honing –

Sarah: That’s just gorgeous.

Amanda: – into you.

Sarah: That’s a –

Mur: Thank you!

Amanda: Could not get into Blaseball either, by the way. I tried. It is a lot.

Mur: It is a lot. It is, it’s, it’s like, it’s like the tide? You’ve just got to hold on and let it take you, and you may not, you can’t control it, and you may not understand it, but, you know –

Amanda: Definitely did not understand it.

Mur: – just hold on and –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: Yeah, my kid got into the fan art aspect of it, so they did a lot of really cool stuff for it.

Sarah: It’s the best part of getting into a fandom, right, the fan art?

So Amanda and I both owe you an apology because we have both already read your book and pretty much inhaled it, right?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I always feel –

Mur: How is that an apology?

Sarah: Well, I feel bad because I know that writing a book takes some time, and then you get someone like me and it’s like, GULP! Mm! And I’m done!

Mur: No, no!

Sarah: Thanks! [Laughs]

Mur: No, no, that’s, that’s very flattering. It took me way, it, it took me a long time to get it to the point where you could devour it like that –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – so.

My name is Mur Lafferty. I am a podcaster and an author, and I recently wrote the novel Station Eternity, which is out on October 4th, and it is Murder, She Wrote meets Babylon 5.

Sarah: Oooh! What an awesome pitch! When you said that to editors and agents, were they like, oh? Yes.

Mur: Yeah, yeah, they liked it.

Sarah: Yeah. I, I love a really – my favorite thing about this is that it is Midsolar Murders?

Mur: [Laughs] I will – the, the funny thing is I hate puns? I think –

[Laughter]

Mur: Part of it is, part of it is, my brain doesn’t work that way. I’m not a poet; I’m not a wordsmith; I don’t, I don’t play with words like that; and I think it’s partly just bitterness. And so when I was telling my friend about this, who loves puns, he came up with the Midsolar Murders, so I made sure that he, he got a copy of the, the ARC because he deserved it, ‘cause he came up with the Midsolar Murders thing.

Sarah: It’s very clever. Like, the minute Amanda told me about Midsolar Murders I was like, ‘scuse me?

Mur: [Laughs]

Sarah: ‘Cause between the two of us, Amanda is much more of a space reader person?

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: To quote Amanda: Earth is garbage; space is horny; let’s stay there.

Mur: Okay!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Now, I have only –

Mur: Yeah!

Sarah: – recently started reading more space-set books, which I –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – very much enjoy.

Mur: Cool!

Sarah: And I love the idea of Murder, She Wrote and Babylon 5; that’s a great way to reference this. What will readers find inside Station Eternity?

Mur: The big thing is I wanted to shine a light on the fact that all of these amateur sleuth stories, none of them actually address the fact that a lot of people die around this star? You know, I would never go to Father Brown’s church.

Sarah: Geeze Louise, no!

Mur: That’s terrifying. Never visit Midsomer County.

Sarah: No!

Mur: Miss Fisher seems really cool to hang out with, but I wouldn’t want to. Or anywhere in Melbourne, really; I think Melbourne’s just dangerous around that time. I wanted to have somebody who people died around her, and yes, she solved it just fine –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: – but everyone was just terrified of her or hated her or was suspicious of her.

Sarah: Yep.

Mur: And how she would deal with that, and because I’m a nerd I thought, well, let’s put space into it, and then I thought of Babylon 5, the diplomatic hub for the, all of the species, and I thought, well, what if we had that but they didn’t like humans? So –

Sarah: Can’t say –

Mur: – that would be –

Sarah: Can’t see why they would like humans; I don’t understand –

Mur: Yeah, exactly. So I figured they would, that would be a place maybe you could petition to go –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – so that’s, that’s how I came up with it is if you, if everybody on Earth hated you and you had people dying around you all the time, where could you go?

Sarah: Yeah. And poor Mallory –

Mur: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: – she, she does not like that people drop dead around her. She’s not –

Mur: No!

Sarah: It’s not fun! And you’re entirely right: this is the thing that I wonder most, like, how is no one concerned with the body count of these small, beautiful towns?

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Like, once I see a murder –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – like, okay, here’s a murder mystery series set in a small town; we’ve got pictures of thatched-roof cottages on the cover and some trees; and wow!

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: This series is twenty-five books? That’s a lot of dead people; is no one concerned here?

Mur: [Laughs] Yeah, yeah. Really what, like, Britain should have sent in all of Scotland Yard well before Midsomer Murders got into like season three.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: It’s like, there’s something else happening here we need to investigate.

Sarah: And that’s part of the basis of your whole book, like the – what is the something else that’s happening here? With Station Eternity, part of the mystery – and I’m not trying to, I don’t want to spoil anything –

Mur: Right.

Sarah: – part of the mystery is, but why are there so many dead people?

Mur: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah: Why is this happening? [Laughs]

Mur: And that was one of the, the – I, I won’t spoil it either, but I, that was one of my biggest challenges, ‘cause I realized if I did make a point to say everyone dies around her, I had to come up with a reason why.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: And that was one of the more challenging parts of the novel, but yeah, investigating why, in fact, that happens was, is, is a part of the novel, in addition to the murder that happens and everything that cascades after the murder, which is a lot.

Sarah: Oh yeah. That’s one of the things that frustrates me about a lot of murder mysteries on television and murder mysteries on, in, in books as well: death has an effect on the, the living generally? There’s –

Mur: [Laughs] Yeah!

Sarah: – things happen. They don’t –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – the dead body doesn’t just dissolve like an NPC in a videogame and you can just go on to the next quest because the dead body has dissolved and there’s no aftereffect. Like –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – grief is a thing?

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: Trauma is, like, totally a thing. So the idea is like, oh, dead. Oh, well, that’s annoying. Like, it’s not like you, like –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – just lost your shoelaces and can’t put on your shoes –

Mur: [Laughs]

Sarah: – this is actually a bigger issue here?

Mur: I just realized the wealthiest person in Midsomer County has got to be the mortician.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely! There is no question.

Mur: Yeah, in addition to the medical examiner, probably, but both of them; they’re just super busy.

Sarah: Oh, for sure!

Mur: Sorry, I just realized that, but yeah, it’s, there, there’s, there’s grief; there’s bodies; there’s –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: Yeah. There, there’s, there’s a lot of things that are written out because these are supposed to be cozy. I don’t, I still don’t understand how we find the story of a murder and an amateur solving it and possibly cupcakes or pets involved –

Sarah: Or books. Yep.

Mur: Or books.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – as a cozy thing. Like, where does the violent murder come in? I don’t, I don’t know why, but we do love it.

Sarah: Oh yeah!

Mur: But part of it we, we don’t love getting into, you know, a lot of these don’t have a thriller aspect of the, the main character is super in danger, and they usually aren’t very messy. Although there is a new, there is a new – Mr & Mrs  Murder. I watched part of that, the first episode, which is about crime scene cleanup people who turn out to start solving crimes because the cops can’t do it and they’re cleaning up. But overall it’s like, it’s not a very messy thing; it’s not, it doesn’t cause a lot of grief. Yeah, and, and I don’t know if people would like it as much! You know, it’s, it’s, there’s a lot of realism you have to cut out of your books just to make people enjoy it.

Sarah: It’s true!

Mur: I have a problem with blunt force trauma. Movies don’t think blunt force trauma is a thing –

Sarah: No!

Mur: – even if it’s like, oh, you got knocked out; you had a concussion. Next scene you’re up, you’re fine! You had a concussion; you’re fine now.

Sarah: No!

Mur: As I understand, the brain doesn’t –

Sarah: Nope.

Mur: – you know, recover that fast, and –

Sarah: It does not come back online that quick, no.

Mur: Yeah, so if there’s, like, if, it, it, it reminds me of monks in AD&D, which is if you, like, monks couldn’t have sharp weapons because they couldn’t break the skin, so they gave them maces. So monks wielding a mace was okay. Knife is bad. So crushing the skull –

Sarah: Fine.

Mur: Yeah, yeah. Things like that are just baffling to me. I, I have the problem with the blunt force trauma just being something you can just move past and, and be okay the next scene and – but, you know –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – I think if, if – [laughs] – if people actually did get injured the way they would in real life, books would be a lot less interesting? Or, like, you know, anything with any sort of adventure, unfortunately, so we kind of have to cut that out.

Sarah: Yeah. It’s like in romantic suspense where the bad guys are after the protagonists and they absolutely have to stop and go to Bone Town in the stairwell. It is –

Mur: Of course!

Sarah: – absolutely – one of our, one of our staff reviewers, Elyse, calls it Danger Boner? Like, we are in danger! We must – no one’s going to catch us; we’re just going to use this convenient stairwell; we will – like, what?! No!

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: No!

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: I don’t understand.

Mur: Oh, I’m sorry; can I go on a slight tangent?

Sarah: I would welcome this slight tangent; go all the way.

Mur: Have you guys watched The Woman in the House Across the Street from the Girl in the Window?

Sarah: I –

Amanda: Oh, I’ve seen parts of it; I haven’t finished it. But it’s like, like a parody of sort of those thrillers.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: Yes, it is, but it’s, it’s funny because it’s – I, I think it, it doesn’t parody it enough?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: There are some things that I wonder what they’re making fun of, like she keeps, she has like a ton of Corning ware dishes, and she keeps breaking them? She keeps making a casserole and dropping it, but I’m like, is that a reference to something or – I, I don’t get it, but it is funny because, you know, nobody has that many casserole dishes.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mur: But –

Sarah: Unless there’s a lot of deaths.

Mur: Yes. There’s a sex scene in that that they go, it just cuts and they’re doing it in every room. So they’re on the stairwell –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mur: – going at it, and then, like, it cuts, and now they’re on the kitchen counter going at it, and then – it’s like they, they hit every room in the house; it’s hysterical. Now that was a parody that I really appreciated it, ‘cause it was just like passionate sex, every room, every, like, shower, stairwell, kitchen, everywhere, so it’s –

Sarah: Yep. We don’t even need a flat surface; a vertical one will do. Tilt table, fine, yeah.

[Laughter]

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: So with Station Eternity, one of the things that I absolutely loved, and Amanda and I both had different favorite parts, so you get questions from both of us?

Mur: Mm-hmm?

Sarah: I absolutely loved the AI-controlled sentient ships, especially because they made me think about my own relationship with things like Google Home and the way –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – that I talk to devices, and self-driving cars, which seems to me like a terrible idea, but when I’m reading in a book –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – I’m like, oh, that sounds great! There’s a lot of –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – trust in letting a sentience control a whole station.

Mur: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: You know? Like, you are within the station, and the station can, can have problems, which it does. What was the process of, of developing Eternity like, and the other sentient structures in the story? What was the process of developing that like?

Mur: I actually don’t remember where I decided that Eternity was sentient, but there’s a sentient ship called Infinity –

Sarah: Yes.

Mur: – and that was inspired by, the hip-hop group Clipping did a concept album in 2016, I guess? No. ’16 or ’17. And it was called Splendor & Misery, and it’s a, a, you know, concept sci-fi album about a slave ship in space where one of the, one of the slaves breaks free, kills everybody on board, and takes over the ship, and part of the story is told from the point of view of the AI on the ship, who falls in love with him.

Sarah: Right.

Mur: The character of Xan and the ship are slightly inspired –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – by that. You know, Xan is also, he’s in trouble and gets picked up by the ship – also a little Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy there, but it’s less wacky and more running away from a murder scene. So that’s, that’s where the, the whole sentient thing came from, and I honestly don’t remember where I decided that, that Eternity should be sentient. That’s a good question; I wish I could remember. I’ve been working on this book for a while, so –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – it’s, it’s hard to remember all the inspirations, but Splendor & Misery was a big one. I love Clipping and all the weird, weird stuff they do.

Sarah: Yeah. And, and with the – like, I live in a house, and I take care of my house ‘cause it’s part of my job, you know, to take care of the structure that I live in, but I frequently give my house a personality –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – or I think about, like, my house as a living thing sometimes? And I, I love the idea that for Eternity, when someone is, is in their, like, body, for lack of a better word –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – like, someone is in the ship, they’re, they know, Eternity and Infinity know that they’re responsible for the beings in the ship, but with Eternity –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – part of what starts happening in the story is that Eternity starts to break down and –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – cannot care, can’t care about all of the beings inside her body; like, just can’t.

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s primal terrifying right there.

[Laughter]

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s some scary shit right there! [Laughs]

Mur: Yeah! It’s, I remember, I can’t remember who said it; it might have been Kij Johnson talking about, you know, writing alien, but they still have to be – I mean, Star Trek’s brilliant and we love it, but it does, you know, the aliens are, are, you know, giving them a forehead ridge and, and base them on another culture and you’re done. But, like, trying to make an alien alien who you can communicate with but has different priorities and, and responsibilities and understandings of the world than you do, and that’s, there’s the challenge, and, you know, you think about your body and how, you know, your, your stomach might be having problems, but you still have to go to work –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – or something, and you may not be able to deal with or properly care for every single thing going on if you, even if you know about it or understand it, understand it, so, you know, when she’s in top form, yeah! Eternity’s great!  But she has a, a host that’s more of an alien person like we know, so, you know, someone to communicate with on our level –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – and when she doesn’t have a host, things start to go awry because she can’t communicate as well.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: So yeah, it’s, it’s – and, you know, not having anywhere to go and suddenly all the shuttle bays are full, it’s, it’s that whole why don’t, oh, a hurricane’s coming; why don’t you just leave? kind of thing. You know, it’s, it’s, everyone leaving at once is not feasible.

Sarah: That is not a solution. That is –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – that is bad, actually.

Mur: Yeah, so –

Sarah: Amanda knows; she’s from Florida.

Mur: Oh my. I hope –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: – you and, I, I hope –

Amanda: No, not anymore!

Mur: Are they there now?

Amanda: No.

Mur: Okay, well, I hope anybody you know there is –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: – prepared with a good –

Amanda: My parents, but they’re, they’re old Floridians; they’ll be fine.

Sarah: They’re like, yeah, whatever –

Amanda: They’re good.

Sarah: – one of those?

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Mur: Yeah, but it’s going to be, I, I think the problem’s going to be flooding, ‘cause it’s really slow now, but –

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah.

Mur: North Carolina got Hurricane Floyd, which hit us and then went out to sea, then decided it wasn’t done and came back in and hit us like a couple days later.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: So the, the flooding was epic there.

Sarah: Oh yeah. And it’s –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – it’s like trying to have everyone leave at once, all of that rain –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – it, it just doesn’t have anywhere to go. It gets –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – yeah, everything gets stuck. And the same thing happens with Eternity: everyone’s trying to leave, but there’s nowhere to go.

Mur: Yeah. Exactly.

Sarah: Except the cold, heartless void of space.

Mur: [Laughs] Yes.

Amanda: So I really loved the worldbuilding in the series and all of the aliens and creating all of the different cultures, and I really appreciate what you said about, like, in some sci-fi they just, all aliens are weirdly humanoid, aren’t they? They – [laughs] –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – they’re just all humans. So what do you think is the best way to strike a balance when it comes to worldbuilding in unfamiliar settings so as to not, like, overwhelm the reader? I feel like a lot of people who are new to sci-fi/fantasy get overwhelmed easily when they’re just, like, thrust into this unfamiliar territory.

Mur: Yeah. It is, it is a challenge. Instead of, you know, instead of trying to base it on specifically another culture, I more try to think about how I as, you know, American woman look at the world and how other people might view things differently, and going beyond, you know, other cultures, but, like, if your body doesn’t really break down, then you’re not going to see death on the same level as other people.

Sarah: Yeah!

Mur: And I feel, I feel like I just took little bits of a whole bunch of science fiction. There’s a scene in, um, sorry, The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson where the story within the story, the fairytale, Princess Nell is talking to the Queen of the Ants, and the Ants have two numbers: one and a million. And so if anything happens to one is bad, and anything happens to the million of course wipes out the colony, but anything happens to like a bunch? It’s, it’s, it’s not one or a million, so it’s okay. And, you know, looking at, at numbers and population like that helped me figure out the Sundry, which their most important thing –

Amanda: They’re my favorite, by the way. [Laughs]

Mur: Oh, thank you! The Sundry are my hive mind, my very large insects – well, larger than our insects; not, like, people-sized insects – and the way they collect data, and they don’t care so much to use the data, which confuses Mallory a lot, because once you get enough data about something you can act, and –

Sarah: Yeah!

Mur: – but they don’t care! They just want to collect the data and have it. It’s just trying to come up with how you react to something and how other, something else would do it differently, what limitations you have in your mind and body that an alien could surpass with their mind or body – I just, I guess I just start with me and try to branch out to what’s not me and make sure I don’t slide into cultural appropriation – [laughs] – and try to go further beyond that.

Amanda: I did appreciate, like, we get to see what the aliens think of humans?

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: And, like, their first thought is like, you’re really, like, gross and wet, and how have you survived this long?

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: How are you a dominant species? You are, you’re, you’re wet – I read recently that humans are basically horny, electrified bags of meat?

Mur: [Laughs]

Sarah: And that has just reshaped my worldview on a lot of things that I don’t really feel like –

Mur: Wow.

Sarah: – I need to worry about anymore, because basically, yes, we are horny, electrified bags of meat, and the other aliens looking at us like, you are so squishy. How?

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: How did you survive this long? [Laughs]

Mur: Yeah. I won’t go into too much of detail, but one of my favorite, like, D plots of the book is just there’s, there’s a person, there’s an alien who is, like, handed an injured person, and she wants to help out with what’s going on in the ship. She’s, she’s in Security, but someone gives her this person to deal with, and she’s basically dragging this injured, wet person around the ship, station, trying to figure out what to do with them, and she misses everything! Small spoiler, but she misses the whole thing because she’s dealing with this wet, disgusting human –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: – and it’s like, her frustrating story just made me so sad and pleased that she existed. I just –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – it just, I was so happy with that little bit ‘cause she’s just walking around going, can’t I dump him? Oh, I can’t. Okay.

Sarah: I don’t even know if he’s still alive, and another thing goes –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – no, yeah, he’s still alive. Here are the signs, and she’s –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – she’s just like, ah, really?!

Amanda: You’ve also kind of like mentioned several throughout our conversation in terms of like stuff that’s inspired you. Have there been any other inspirations from, like, media, like TV, books, movies that we haven’t talked yet that really –

Mur: Yes.

Amanda: – helped you craft Station Eternity?

Sarah: Especially the – okay, so this is the problem when I’ve read something and haven’t heard it: is it G-neiss?

Mur: Gneiss, Gneiss [pronounced just like “nice”]

Sarah: G-nei-, Gneiss – so the silent G –

Mur: Gneiss.

Sarah: – Gneiss.

Mur: I believe, I believe it’s Gneiss, yeah.

Sarah: Okay.

Mur: I, I felt sorry for the audiobook narrator.

Amanda: Aw! [Laughs]

Mur: I’ve loved the idea of rock people. Of course N. K. Jemisin really dominated it with the, the Broken Earth series, I believe – you know, The Fifth Season and all, that whole amazing trilogy – but, you know, there was, played a lot of Dragon Age: Origins back in the day, and there was, you know, Shale –

Sarah: Yep!

Mur: – and I loved Shale. And Shale was also very alien, because she was a rock person who just did not care! Couldn’t imagine why these humans had these problems or concerns. And really, really, really hated birds. And, you know, I loved her, and then N. K. Jemisin came out with hers, and God, what else? There was some-, there was another inspiration for the rock people.

Sarah: Korg?

Mur: No – oh, I guess, yeah.

Amanda: If you couldn’t tell, we’re huge Dragon Age fans, so.

Mur: Yes, I did see, I did see on the review site that –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: We were, we were celebrating Dragon Age mentions, yes.

Mur: Yes. With the other two main ones, which was the, the Phantasmagore and the Gurudev, I think I just tried to imagine aliens and tried to build them on what can this alien do –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: – and one of the biggest things I had to do was make sure everybody had a symbiotic connection, because that’s one reason why the aliens look down on Earthlings because we don’t do that.

Sarah: Right.

Mur: So connecting all of them and their minor species that they connect with, or major species, yeah, that was just kind of brainstorming, I think.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: If I was inspired, which I probably was, it was subliminal.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: Subconscious, sublim-, subconscious.

Amanda: And did you have, like, a favorite species to write?

Mur: I love the Gneiss. I really do. They, they, you know, the character of Tina was just a throwaway weird person, and now it just, the idea of being kind of dumb but completely self-aware and okay with that.

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: I just, I loved her so much! And I had a lot of fun with her making bad or impulsive decisions. [Laughs]

Sarah: And the thing about characters like Tina and, and you see them periodically pop up in different, like, large ensemble casts? I would –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – much rather deal with someone like Tina than someone who’s hiding their intentions or –

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: – trying to mislead me? I would much rather be like, here’s what I would like to accomplish. Oh, okay! Here’s what I would like to accomplish! Let’s go do the thing! All right, good! Like, that’s, that’s way more pleasant than trying to guess and then trying to figure out what the other person wants and then align – yeah, mm, that’s too much work.

Mur: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sarah: I would much rather deal with straightforward people.

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: All right, so, big question here, real big question.

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: If you were going to be kidnapped or gently escorted off of planet Earth by aliens, would you be good with this?

Mur: I think it would depend on whether I could come back. Here’s, here’s a little secret about me: I have never liked fancy dress shoes, because a part of my – this, this is connected, I swear – part of my deep, ingrained belief is that a portal’s going to open or the aliens are going to come, and I’m not going to be able to run. Either run away or run to, but something magical or, or spaceship-y is going to happen –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mur: – and I’m not going to be prepared for it ‘cause I got heels on. So ever since I was a kid, I have not liked heels because I won’t be ready, and so, yeah, getting escorted or kidnapped by kind and stupid aliens sounds great, but I would want to be able to come back.

Sarah: Yeah. And, and that’s effectively what happens to Xan, right? He’s, he’s –

Mur: Yes.

Sarah: – [laughs] – he is lifted off the planet by some drunk aliens on a bender.

Mur: Yes, yes. He’s, he’s lifted away, and, but it benefits him!

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: And, you know, he makes the decision to stay on Eternity, so – but, yeah, he did not plan for that, but it was lots of fun to have Mallory have to tell the, the investigating agent that your main murder suspect was just abducted by aliens; I saw it.

Sarah: Sorry.

Mur: Yeah, sorry. [Laughs]

Sarah: Sorry about that! Listen, there was no way to stop that takeoff.

Mur: Yep.

Sarah: Nothing I could do. [Laughs] And do you want to talk about book three? Can you talk about book three at all? Or book three – book two!

Mur: I –

Sarah: Sorry!

Mur: Book two!

Sarah: Let me just jump ahead into the future! Do you –

Mur: Yeah, I’m like, wait, I haven’t even been – I’ve only, like, cooking some ideas in the back of my head for book three.

Sarah: So this is going to be a series?

Mur: Yes. Yes.

Sarah: Oooh!

Mur: Book two is, rough draft is finished, so I’m waiting for my edit letter. I’m scared.

Sarah: Dun-dun-duh.

Mur: Yeah. More people from Mallory’s past show up on the station.

Amanda: Oooh!

Sarah: That’ll be something, ‘cause the people from Mallory’s past are not all that great, some of them.

Mur: Yeah!

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: And a lot of them are dead, so – [laughs] –

Sarah: Yeah!

Mur: – only got a limited, limited number to choose from. And there’s nothing else I can tell you that won’t spoil the first one, so.

Sarah: Okay! I’m very excited that it’s a series. I thought it might be, based on some of the comments at the end? It’s like, ooh –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – ooh, there might be another one. I’m excited!

Mur: Yeah, it’s a, we, we talked about whether they wanted like a trilogy with an arc or just, you know, keep doing monster-of-the-week type series, like a good old Jessica Fletcher, every, every week we get a new murder, so.

Sarah: Yep. No matter where she goes, there’s a murder. It’s kind of strange how that happens.

Mur: Yep. One thing that’s funny is I’m doing a live audio drama of, like, the, Mallory’s and Xan’s origin stories for Twitch this weekend.

Amanda and Sarah: Oooh!

Mur: And it’s like, it’s, if, if, it should be like thirty minutes to forty-five minutes, and it’s definitely not the whole book, it’s just to whet your appetite, but as I was going through and trying to figure out what to transcribe to an audio drama, I realized that, I, I’d moved Xan’s origin story like a hundred and fifty pages into the book because of how I needed to structure it, and he didn’t get a point of view for a while.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: And so, like, people are getting a good, maybe part two, a second part of the book really early in the audio drama because I’ve just decided to have, here’s how Mallory got there, and here’s how Xan got there –

Sarah: Right.

Mur: – and here’s what they’re worried about now, and go buy the book. But that should fun. I’m, I’m very nervous about it ‘cause I feel like it’s a really ambitious project, and I’m pretty sure I forgot something, but –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mur: – it’s still, it’s, we’re going to be doing it live on Twitch, and then if it, if it’s not a complete disaster we’ll be putting it on YouTube, so.

Sarah: Oh, fabulous!

Amanda: That’s really cool.

Sarah: That is very cool. What a cool idea for a book promotion, too! That is very cool.

Mur: Thank you! My agent came up with it, and then I did all the work.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s usually how it works, right?

Amanda: That’s how it goes!

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: That is exactly how it works, but it’s a very smart idea ‘cause you’re calling back to a very old style of storytelling with a radio drama –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – in a very new format to, to promote your book, which is, again, an older format of media. I think that’s really, really clever, but, I mean –

Amanda: Mur, do you –

Mur: I really loved it! Well, I, I don’t know if you guys knew or, or paid, or saw this when it happened, but in 2020, to help promote some political stuff – I think in Wisconsin maybe – the cast of, the living cast of The Princess Bride got together –

Sarah: Yes!

Mur: – and did like a table read, and I, I loved it! And I’m like, why aren’t more – I was just getting into Twitch; I’m like –

Sarah: Yep.

Mur: – why don’t I see this all over the place? Why don’t – people are doing, like, live audio dra- – not live, but audio drama podcasts –

Sarah: Right.

Mur: – but they’re not doing like live reads on Twitch, which sounds like it would be much more entertaining and engaging, so that’s kind of, I, I wanted to do that kind of thing –

Sarah: Yeah.

Mur: – and so when it came to the promotion, it all kind of clicked.

Sarah: That’s very cool.

Amanda: Mur, do you listen to audiobooks at all?

Mur: Mostly, yeah.

Amanda: Yeah, have you done Sleeping Giants by Sylvain Neuvel?

Mur: Nooo, I have not.

Amanda: So I’m not a big audiobook listener, but this is my favorite audiobook. It’s sci-fi about, this girl discovers a giant metal alien hand beneath the earth –

Mur: Oh, cool!

Amanda: – and later goes on to become part of the team that kind of like investigates why the hell it’s here. But the novel is, like, told through epistolary ephemera stuff like journal entries and project reports and interviews –

Mur: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – and they got different narrators for each character? So it feels very much like you’re listening to a radio play –

Mur: Oh, cool!

Amanda: – when you’re – I highly recommend it if you like that style of, of audiobook where each character has a different narrator? It is –

Mur: Cool.

Amanda: – so compelling. There’s like a shady government agent that, he’s very smarmy, and you can’t tell, like, what side he’s on? And his interviews with the, like, team members working on this hand are some of my favorite scenes to listen to; they’re so good. Highly recommend it.

Mur: Thank you! It’s, it’s –

Amanda: You’re welcome.

Mur: – I apparently have it; it’s just on my To Be Read list, so I will –

Amanda: Yes, it’s, I think –

Mur: – I’ll move it up.

Amanda: Yeah, that series is a trilogy. I really liked it.

Sarah: So what books are you reading right now that you would want to tell people about? Since Amanda has gone first, ‘cause she knows what’s up.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mur: I am – Audible just had a sale, and I fell for it entirely and bought way too many books. I’m excited about, one of my weaknesses is Christmas romances?

Amanda: Oh my goodness.

Mur: So I got A Merry Little Meet Cute.

Sarah: ‘Tis the season! They’re all coming out!

Mur: Oh yes.

Amanda: I’m, I’m excited about that one. I’m not a holiday romance person, but that one –

Mur: That’s about the only romance I get into! I don’t know why, but it, it is.

Amanda: Interesting!

Mur: Yeah. I am, right now I’m rereading Gideon the Ninth and Harrow the Ninth so I can read Nona the Ninth, because Harrow the Ninth was a bit of a mind-blender, and –

Amanda: Those books –

Mur: – I needed to refresh my mind about what was going on.

Sarah: Mind-blender is the perfect term.

Amanda: My feeling about those books in general – ‘cause I, I also did a reread before Nona – was I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m just happy to be here.

Mur: Yes.

Amanda: Like, that’s – [laughs] – my vibe for that entire series.

Mur: See, that’s how I feel about Blaseball, so.

Amanda: [Laughs] I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m happy to be here!

Mur: Mm-hmm!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mur: Yeah. And I’ve been wanting to read Persephone Station, so I picked that up, by Stina Leicht, and, yeah, I heard Bullet Train was not a good movie but was a very well respected book, and so I picked that one up too, so I’ve got lots of, lots of things on my To Be Read – which was already overwhelming, but –

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Mur: – these are the ones I’m excited about right now.

Sarah: That’s very cool. I think mind-blender is the perfect way to describe the, the Locked Tomb series?

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: Mind-blender –

Amanda: For sure.

Sarah: – oh yeah.

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, you thought you understood? I’m sorry; you were wrong.

[Laughter]

Sarah: You do not. Guess what? Nope.

Mur: Yeah.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mur: Exactly.

Sarah: So where can people find you if you wish to be found?

Mur: Yes, murverse.com is my website: basically the Mur Universe where all my stuff is. I’m on Twitter @mightymur and Twitch at mightymur, and those are the interactive places I’m most found. I livestream my podcasts and I do some game streaming, and yeah, those are the best places to find me. Website, Twitter, Twitch.

Sarah: Fabulous! Thank you very, very much, and also thank you for Station Eternity. We both enjoyed it so much.

Mur: That thrilled me. Thank you; I really appreciate you saying that, ‘cause –

Amanda: Also, that cover, that cover design! So good!

Mur: It is so epic!

Amanda: So good!

Sarah: It’s gorgeous!

Mur: I nearly cried when I saw it. I, it was so amazing. So I, I love everything about the cover.

Sarah: And I –

Mur: I don’t know how he did that, but yeah.

Sarah: It’s amazing. And you’re, you’re really leading a trend, because there are now more ro-, more mysteries in space, so it’s like, like, seeing just the start of this, like, oh, this is great! Let’s do lots of it! I’m very excited that it’s a series.

Mur: Yeah. Yeah. I’m, I’m having a lot of fun with it, so.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again to Amanda and Mur Lafferty for hanging out. If you would like to find a copy of Station Eternity, book one of the Midsolar Murders series, it’s out now! You can find it wherever you get your tasty, delicious books – don’t eat the books; they probably don’t taste very good – library, bookstore, everywhere! It’s on sale now, and we both really, really enjoyed it.

As always, I end each episode with an absolutely dreadful joke, and this one was sent in by Malaraa. Hello, Malaraa! Thank you for this joke! Malaraa says, I got this one from someone in a Discord who got it from someone on Reddit who got it from who-knows-where, so this is a joke with outstanding provenance. I mean, not just because Malaraa sent it, but it has visited Discord and Reddit. Next thing it’ll hit Tumblr, and, and then it’ll just be the most popular joke in the world. But are you ready? Are you ready to hear about it before it gets popular on Tumblr?

How do you find a velociraptor?

Give up? How do you find a velociraptor?

You divide the distance raptor by the time raptor.

[Laughs] Math and physics and dinosaurs! What an amazing combination for one joke. Thanks, Malaraa!

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend, and we’ll see you back here next week.

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[majestic music]