To quote Kate, one of the hosts of What Would Danbury Do?, a podcast examining the Bridgerton world, the marketing for the Netflix Bridgerton show has been very subtle. It’s not as if it has it’s own hashtag icon, or that publications like Architectural Digest of all places covered it.
Wait, no, it was everywhere and so many of you asked us about it.
We were watching? Oh, yes. Over the holiday break we’ve been discussing it nonstop. I found myself watching while on the treadmill and not noticing time passing until I’d been on the incline walk for over an hour. My shins were not happy with me.
On one hand, Bridgerton was almost perfectly calibrated to appeal to me, from a nostalgia perspective, and from a “I hardly watch television because I don’t trust people to write a happy ending or an ending at all” perspective. When I started the show, my first reaction was jaw dropping awe: “Ooooooh, so this is what it’s like when budget, time, incredible on-camera and behind-the-scenes talent, and a firehose of opulence are aimed at a romance fiction plot. Wow.”
Since finishing it, I have been pondering how to discuss Bridgerton. It’s complex and there’s a LOT to talk about. This is a portion of our conversation, talking about the wonderful and woeful parts.
SPOILERS ABOUND. This conversation is after most of us have watched all eight episodes, so we discuss plot points, characters, and other moments in detail.
Shana: I’m definitely curious about how people are responding depending on their previous relationship to the book(s).
Sarah: Oh, yeah – me, too. I re-read The Duke and I a week or so ago (time? What is?) and noting both the differences between my reaction now vs. when I first read the book 20 years ago was a LOT to think about. And that was before I started looking at the wisteria-draped, sparkly jewel-tone Netflix version.
Shana: Ooh, I bet. I haven’t tried to reread it, and I’m sure I’d have a very different reaction to it today. Both because I’m much more sensitive to consent issues, and historical romances with zero racial diversity…also because I may have outgrown my love for rakes. There is so much raking on this show! I just want a sweet beta hero to make me snacks.
Sarah: With the book, I can look at it from a distance and recognize the parts that are GOD FUCKING AWFUL and also what worked on me as a reader. With the show, I find myself in a similar position. Some parts really worked. Some parts really did not.
Catherine:I also re-read / skimmed the book before watching Bridgerton, which might have been a mistake. For me, the show worked best when I pretended it had nothing to do with the book. I think one of the great strengths of the Bridgerton books is the dialogue – and for whatever reason, Bridgerton chose not to use it, which was a pity. I feel like they tried to replace it with hot men, and while the men (well, Simon) are indeed hot, I want hot men AND good dialogue, damn it!
Also, changing the dialogue meant that the story became far less witty and far more angsty.
But also, they have made Anthony FAR more of a jerk than is necessary. The whole bit with Siena infuriated me. Bad enough that the script walks right up to the double standard and then does nothing with it, but I’m also not there for him breaking his promise to look after her. This seems supremely un-Anthony, who for all his rakish ways, should be a man of his word. I also found his whole head-of-the-household routine pretty dismal to watch. I am not at ALL convinced that I am going to be able to buy him as a hero in the next season.
Kiki: I’d be interested in discussing it as well—though I have one episode left and I skipped the nonconsensual scene. The Duke and I was one of the first historical romances I read and it really left a mark on me and not in a great way.
Similarly to being over rakes, I’m also over heroes with issues with their father that they never deal with/”the line ends with me to punish my dead dad!”
Sarah: I agree it’s a fragile basis for character motivation.
Also: the way the show has addressed and not addressed racial identity is making me chase my tail. The Black characters know they are Black (and discuss it) but no one else does…so they’re all pretending not to notice race? Or they literally don’t notice? They are in an alternate universe? I’m so baffled.
Kiki: Yeeeeessss. I have so much to say about the conversation between Lady Danbury and Simon where they sorta kinda but also don’t talk about race. I had I pause the show after that scene and audibly say “what??!?!?”
Sarah: That has been STUCK in my head, Kiki. LODGED. NOT MOVING.
Were they in some kind of alt dimension because how on one hand can you have Black characters discussing the Queen being Black, their own status among peerage and wealth, and the precariousness of it…. And no one else comes close to that contextual conversation or awareness?
Kiki: I feel like the writers tried to slip in some actual racial politics but how can you do that in a show that is pretending race doesn’t exist??? I don’t think you get to have it both ways and they tried to.
Shana: YES
Sarah: YES exactly that. It’s disingenuous and excuses too much. The characters acknowledge race when they are Not White but no one who is White does so or has to? HOW.
Another point: I loved Lady Danbury, and how glorious her gowns were, and Adoja Andoh’s ability to demonstrate awareness of power and no fucks given with a zillion tiny gestures and movements. I would watch an entire show of Lady Danbury’s gatherings of married ladies.
Shana: I was initially happy that they added in that scene between Lady Danbury and Simon because it made the alternate history more interesting, but it’s annoying that’s all we get.
I presume the implication is that White folks had a few decades to flip out, decide class matters more than anything else, and they’ve gotten over it now and moved into a mode of quietly pretending race doesn’t exist. Which certainly had some parallels with real life among upper classes but where’s the acknowledgment that institutions don’t work that way?
Sarah: Yes. “That’s all we get?” is exactly right. That’s the precise feeling I have the more I think about it.
Shana: They do something similar with sexism. Eloise is constantly pointing out how marriage in their society is sexist, but the rest of the Bridgertons just ignore her. It’s like the show didn’t want to avoid the topic, but also didn’t want to engage with it.
That Refinery 29 piece captures many of my responses to the show. I mean, just based on the trailer, I was already annoyed by the colorism, and it looked like most WOC wouldn’t be playing love interest roles. Watching the show had not improved my opinion. In fact, it’s worse because Daphne and Simon are pretty boring together. So along with the absence of any real story for Danbury, Marina, and Charlotte, we’re constantly forced back to the most uninteresting pairing I’ve watched in years.
It felt like that Danbury/Simon conversation was just there to give me a chance to fill in the subtext in the Featherington’s family, or imagine a backstory for the modiste…while protecting White viewers from the difficulty of having to think about race.
It’s definitely beautiful to look at. Belle was better, even if it imagined a more luxurious life for the heroine than the real historical figure she was based on. I may need to rewatch that Vauxhall scene as a reward for finishing this.
Oh, and I loved Penelope in the books and so far she’s very unsympathetic here.
Sarah: What did you dislike about her? I struggled with Penelope’s scenes and dialogue while also being riveted to the performance. I think Nicola Coughlan steals so many scenes that she’s in.
Shana: No, the actresses is fabulous, I just found the character so self loathing, petulant, and desperately sad when placed against Marina.
Oof, I just finished episode 6, the episode with the consent issues. Daphne’s post-sex meltdown is just…not a good look. It turned a misunderstanding into an echo of Carolyn Bryant/Emmett Till. I didn’t feel like Simon had done anything wrong except assume a basic understanding of sexual reproduction by his wife. Why are we centering her feelings instead of Simon’s sense of betrayal? This was much worse than I expected. I am horrified.
Lara: If I’m too late to this party, totally understand! I, too, am sitting with some uncomfortable feelings and I’d love to process them with y’all
Shana: Please join the party Lara! I’ve just finished the series.
I watched the last two episodes with my Mom, and she adored Eloise and Lady Danbury, and agreed with Sarah that the Bridgerton boys are forgettable and interchangeable. She declared Simon to be so distractingly cute that it was hard to pay attention to anything he was saying. And she thought Daphne was the most milquetoast character.
Catherine: Just here to agree 100% both on the interchangeable Bridgerton boys (to be fair, they are supposed to look very alike, so I guess the casting director got that right), and the distracting hotness of Simon.
Shana: We thought the colorblind casting was a good idea, and occasionally enjoyable, but poorly executed.
Sarah: Daphne as portrayed is a blancmange of a heroine isn’t she? Her bangs were more compelling than she was, and most of the time her bangs were extremely distracting.
I’m curious about your mom’s opinion on the casting – what was poorly executed in her opinion?
Shana: Omg, blancmange + bangs
So, the discussion on the casting. One, the bland Bridgerton boys and other interchangeable white love interests were a problem. It left the impression that these people were supposed to be a huge catch, even though they were boring. The illusion relies on their whiteness to make them automatically alluring to viewers, and it was noticeable when they were placed against working class or wealthy POC characters who are actually interesting.
This was probably most obvious with mysterious, strong Siena and Madame Delacroix, versus their easily scandalized and vanilla Bridgerton lovers.
Two, the casting didn’t take into account the effect of sprinkling POC, mostly Black people, into couples without thinking about how those pairing would be racialized to viewers and while also missing an opportunity to say something thoughtful and new in the AU they halfheartedly created.
Marina was such a sad character, trapped in this unhelpful white family, misunderstood, and ultimately stuck in a marriage with another boring dude who looked like a Bridgerton. Having all this multicultural casting, but not letting any WOC get a HEA, felt like a blow to Shonda’s base. Unless you want to argue that getting to have sex with a Bridgerton was a HFN for Madame Delacroix. Methinks not.
Catherine: I was absolutely shocked by Marina’s storyline. I really thought she was going to get a happy ending (so much so that I wasn’t even worrying about her, because it was so clear that her boy was going to come back from the war and she would be vindicated and live happily ever after), and I was stunned that she did not.
Though I did think her relationship with Mrs Featherington was one of the most interesting ones in the series. Mrs Featherington treats her horribly, but as the story progresses, one gets the sense that she is actually doing what she genuinely thinks is best for Marina, based on her own experiences – I’m not sure she would treat her daughters much differently.
Shana: But I also think some of the casting just sucked even outside of the diverse casting decisions. My mom loved Sabrina Bartlett, the actress who played Siena, and felt that she would have done a better job with Daphne. And Colin just reads as extremely young, not hot enough to be the center of a love triangle…and I thought he failed to resemble the flirtatious charmer from the books.
Lara: So my 2 cents… I finished the series a few days ago now and I’m still sitting with some queasy feelings. I binge watched the show, but sort of grimaced throughout. Partly because I realise how far I have come in my own growth and understanding of consent, etc., but also because I could not look away. What does it say about me that I willingly watched this series?!
A lot of my feelings on this series say so much about me and where I am in my social justice journey.
My favourite character was definitely Siena. Siena is well-rounded and just so damn interesting to watch. The sex scenes between her and Anthony were so hot I was sure that they were destined to be together. (My memory of book plots is so weak that I had to google who he ACTUALLY ends up with)
I agree with so many of your comments re: the sort-of colourblind casting.
Sarah: I’ve been thinking a lot about the way I’m reacting to the show, too, Lara. I think that on a micro level, sort of zoomed-way-in, scene by scene, episode by episode, there were moments I loved and parts that charmed the heck out of me. This show was specifically developed to target me as an audience who is familiar with the world, with romance conventions, with period drama, and eager to see a new take on all of it.
When I zoom out and consider the whole, and think about how those parts interact or fit or do not fit, then it starts to fall apart
Example: the first time I saw a ballroom scene with so many different people in it, I was beyond delighted. I think I rewatched one of the overhead pan shots of an assembly two or three times.
But that delight sours when considered against the way the White characters are permitted to not acknowledge race at all while the Black characters talk about it in one (and only one) conversation.
I think the show grabs attention in ways that would make it difficult to look away. It is OPULENT and visually stunning and parts that worked really worked for me. But parts of the whole don’t quite fit together.
Lara: That’s precisely it! A little like the foot was only halfway down on the accelerator. Half-throttle nonsense wrapped up in gorgeous costumes and sets. I could not look away and I’m not proud of that.
Sarah: It takes a lot of awareness and difficult questioning to think about why you like something or why something is working. I suspect you’re being a bit too hard on yourself there!
Watching something specifically created to appeal to you and then examining it critically is work and in fact is hard work.
Lara: There’s no way to say this without sounding sassy, but it is sincerely meant… thank you for the wisdom. I’ve not thought about the reviewing/analysing process in those terms before, and it explains why sometimes I watch my little cursor flicker on the screen for ages before the words will come.
Sarah: Oh, yeah, no question: thinking critically is HARD work. Very hard. You have to challenge your preferences – where did they come from? If you think X, why do you think that? Challenging your own position is hard to do. Then explain that and translate it for someone else? Really hard.
There are so many ways the rape scene could have been removed and maintained the tension between Simon and Daphnew. If you’re going to leave it in, call it what it is and deal with it. That could be applied to a lot of points now that I think about it.
I watch with subtitles, and I noticed that Whistledown’s narration of “…can the ends ever justify such wretched means?” was said over a shot of Daphne.
Like the narration and the framing of the show calls her actions “wretched,” but so so subtly.
Again, there’s that… “Wait that’s it?” feeling?
Catherine: That Scene in episode 6 was deeply distressing to watch. Page certainly played it as the utter betrayal it was, and it was quite wrenching. But I felt like the show just didn’t know what to do with it – like Sarah says, you have that bit of narration suggesting that Daphne had done the wrong thing, but that’s really all you get.
Perhaps it’s because in this telling of the story, Daphne feels like the point of view character, and so everything centres around her and her feelings. The Duke is … a beautiful accessory. Speaking of problematic. Though to an extent everyone in Daphne’s narrative who isn’t Daphne is kind of secondary.
Sarah: Meanwhile I have seen about ten male buttocks and…no nipples? None?
Shana: Clearly shooting for the “female gaze” means lots of butts. I’m trying to be mad, but…
Catherine: And shoulders! Which I was 100% there for, I have to say. I don’t know why they kept making Simon put his shirt back on. Though I did laugh when he came into the bedroom in Episode 9, I think, with the classic romance novel cover look of shirt on and tucked in but open all down the front.
Sarah: I also thought it was striking that there is a shot of Daphne’s menstrual blood, no shying away from what it is.
Shana: I totally agree with Lara that Siena and Anthony were interesting to watch, and believable enough that I ALSO googled to see if I’d forgotten him marrying a singer.
Anyway, after a few days of thinking about the show, I think in addition to the production just being gorgeous, what I most enjoyed was the multigenerational storytelling. Ladies Danbury, Featherington, Bridgerton and the Queen were all powerhouses in their own ways, and Difficult Women who were over dealing with nonsense from the men in their lives. I think Danbury was criminally underutilized, but she was also very fun to watch.
And I was left feeling very invested in the continuing adventures of Eloise and Marina in season two. I want them to get a HEA!
Even though I have plenty of critiques over how the show handled race, I’m glad that they didn’t just do a colorblind world, and attempted to explain that an intervention had been made. That teensy, incomplete scene made it clear that racism isn’t just an accident, but something created by people. I think the show would have been worse had they not made that attempt, and I was happy to see it.
But I’m not really sure the show works as a romance! Simon and Daphne’s storyline wasn’t emotionally satisfying for me. I needed her to grovel, honestly. And none of the secondary romances are resolved, right?
Amanda: Definitely agree, Shana. I’m not super invested in the central romance because Daphne is kind of terrible.
Shana: I’m also tired of historical stories that can imagine a world without racism, but not one without the same tired fatphobia. Watching Penelope’s treatment was painful, even if I found her super unsympathetic.
Sarah: Yes. A thousand times yes. Perhaps we can pin all the things wrong with it on Daphne’s bangs. And everything good is because of Lady Danbury’s jewelry.
So: What did you like about Bridgerton?
Lara: The hands-down winner for me is Siena. Loved her!
Shana: It’s so pretty! I loved everything about Bridgerton’s visuals, from Charlotte’s wigs to the Featherington’s garish dresses. The big ball scenes really showed off the gorgeous multicultural cast.
Catherine: Agreed, it is absolutely GORGEOUS to look at, undeniably (and have we adequately addressed how ridiculously hot Regé-Jean Page is as the Duke? Because I rarely fall for actors on shows, but WOW, I could not look away from him). I’d also say that while I found Daphne dull as a character, I thought the chemistry between her and Simon was electric.
What did you not like about it?
Lara: In a single phrase: the queasy feeling it left me with due to the myriad reasons outlined above.
Shana: Where to start? The unlikable characters who barely resembled the books? A story that couldn’t decide what it actually wanted to say? For a show marketed to romance fans, most of the characters seem pretty fucking miserable.
Catherine: Everything Shana said. And… That Scene was deeply distressing, particularly when contrasted with how careful Simon was with Daphne’s consent in their other scenes together. I found it very hard to enjoy anything that happened in the show after that point.
Can you grade it, and if so, what grade would you give? Why?
Shana: I would give Bridgerton a C. I’m glad it exists, but the romance storylines were pretty toxic and unsatisfying. I would give an A- to an abbreviated version where Simon and Lady Danbury just hang out in pretty ballrooms.
Lara: I give set and costumes an A. (Special shoutout to Lady Danbury’s jewels.) I give Siena an A+. I give the Bridgerton family a C. I give the Featheringtons a B because they were rather good at being awful human beings.
Catherine: I think a C minus. It is extremely beautiful to watch, there is some fantastic acting, and there were parts of it that I loved, especially in the earlier episodes when Daphne and Simon were pretending to court. But there is also so much angst, and so many things that are inconsistent or left unaddressed – and like Shana and Amanda I’m not entirely sold on the central romance.
What do you hope to improve or change in the next season?
Shana: I love a marriage of convenience, so I’m hoping for a happy ending for Marina, especially if that involves some solid women friends who won’t backstab her. I’m also hoping we’ll see more ethnic diversity in season two, like non-Black characters of color! Most importantly, I’d like to see at least one of the Bridgertons in a healthy relationship, preferably one with loads of banter. More joy, less depressing storylines for all!
Lara: I second Shana’s call for more joy! I want Eloise to make a wonderful love match. I want Marina to have an epic HEA. I also want Anthony to realise the error of his ways and attempt to woo Siena.
Catherine: Thirded! Especially on Marina getting an adorable marriage of convenience romance! Beyond that, I’m torn – I’d love to see a woman of colour as the heroine of the next series, getting a proper happy ending, but I am far from convinced that marrying Anthony is a happy ending unless he does some serious work on himself. And I want more Eloise and Penelope.
Sarah: I want for the next season for Lady Danbury to have Her Own Whole Side Plot that isn’t dispensing wisdom or arranging social connections. Her assembly of married women was so much more interesting than any and every scene at the men’s club of boring wood paneling, and she should be given more on every level.
…
There has been much thoughtful, interesting writing about this show. Here are a few of my favorite links:
Tressie McMillan Cottom, “The Black Ton: From Bridgerton to Love & Hip-Hop”
Carla de Guzman, author of Sweet on You, reviews Bridgerton in The Philippine Star
Ineye Komonibo and Kathleen Newman-Bremang at Refinery 29
And, not just because I was a guest, I’m an avid fan of What Would Danbury Do?, a podcast hosted by Rudi Bremer, Kate Cuthbert, and Adele Walsh. They look at each book in the series with a mix of informed affection and necessary critique, and are examining at each episode, too.
What about you? What did you think of Bridgerton season one?
Ack, I have been dying for this review! (I’m on episode 6). I love Simon, hope Daphne grovels, and am firmly Team Eloise and Penelope. I am so delighted to see an actual romance on screen done by people who understand the genre. I also appreciate that it’s well lit (not many hats in sight and candles and the moon give a lot of light!) and amused by how clean it is. Simon is…very clean after lying in a London gutter in 1813.
I have lots more thoughts but can’t wait to see what the Bitchery thinks!
(Also, I want to look as good in a hat as Lady Danbury.)
I liked Sienna. Her characterisation was consistent and made sense. I found Marina very hard to sympathise with as a character. I also found the characterisation completely inconsistent. For example no scruples in trapping Colin who she supposedly holds in esteem, but too good to marry the honourable brother. It will be interesting to see if they actually continue down the path that Marina had in the books where she is an off screen character. The show was beautiful but flawed.
I am very curious about what they are planning to do with Eloise/Marina/Sir Phillip in Season 2, because if they follow the source material, that is THE WORST thing to do to the character of Marina. One of my biggest problems with the writing was that Marina was a well thought out character who they made do awful and what I thought were out of character things, and also the writing just seemed intent on making her miserable.
Watching Season 1 made me thing about how they could potentially better integrate Black characters into Season 2 if they follow the storylines of the books. If they don’t make Kate and Edwina Black, I think they are missing a huge opportunity to rectify the lack of upper class leading ladies that are portrayed as something other than white.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but is Marina not supposed to be the same Marina, Phillip’s deceased first wife in Eloise’s book, “To Sir Phillip, with Love?” I was pretty sure she was when her lover’s brother also, named Phillip, showed up at the end to marry her. If that is the case, they seem to have just completely erased her history of mental illness which is kind of a big freaking plot point in the book (TW: suicide and depression). While Marina already had a lot going on this season, I can’t understand why they erased her mental illness instead of taking the opportunity to show a woman living with depression.
Yes, I too am wondering about Marina — on the one hand fleshing her out a bit more than she got in Eloise’s book is interesting, on the other, it makes her story even more depressing. I’ve not quite finished watching, and all in all I’m enjoying it (mostly for the costumes/settings), but I have so many things holding me back from loving it. Daphne and Colin seem very miscast to me. I really don’t like Anthony/Siena — their relationship is so intense that I’m not sure how I’m going to get behind his story with Kate if they do address that. On the plus side: Simon, Eloise, Penelope, Lady Violet, Lady Danbury, the Featheringtons.
I had forgotten all about Marina from To Sir Phillip (which I remember not liking at all). That is awful. I really liked Marina and was very unhappy with her storyline.
I feel similarly meh about season 1. I loved the acting, costumes etc, but the story and Daphne fell flat for me. I was also hoping they would fix the spoilery consent scene (they did not). I am looking forward to the next season though, as Anthony’s book is my favourite. Maybe it will be better.
So glad to finally get the Bitchery take on this! And I found myself nodding and agreeing pretty much the whole way through. There was so much catnip here (Simon! diverse casting! costumes! Lady Danbury!) but a lot of unexplored issues that deserved more attention. I really needed to see a grovel or at least an apology from Daphne as to her treatment of Simon in episode 6. Anthony being such a dick to his mom and sister not to mention how he treated Sienna…blech. I am willing to see what they do to redeem him in a future season, but it’s going to take some doing. It would be great to see a future heroine (Kate?) be cast as black although not sure if Anthony is such a prize. Then again, the next available brother is Benedict and I’m not sure I trust the production to do get the racial dynamics of a Cinderella story right if they can’t even manage to interrogate them properly here.
Not sure if my html fu is strong, but I’m going to drop a link to another review/article that I found interesting.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/shondalands-regency-bridgerton/
I just finished episode six last night so with the caveat that I don’t know exactly how it ends but I *do* plan to at least finish…I am…eurgh. That Scene was a huge tipping point to me, very upsetting, and this issue could have been addressed with ONE CONVERSATION. Preferably before you walked down the aisle, you dummies. I’m generally sick of “I can never LOVE cause my bad daddy hurt my feelings” storylines and also I assume this will eventually become a “babies fix all problems” thing which…nope. Sigh.
But on the other hand. It’s so pretty. Shallow of me, I guess, but I just want to enjoy something pretty right now.
You put words to something I hadn’t quite figured out yet which is, everyone seems so grimdark miserable. This is a romance novel, where is even a sliver of joy?
I also think it’s rough having Daphne as basically the viewpoint character, because she’s rather incredibly selfish. There’s a point of recognizing that as a woman in a certain social situation her she has certain constraints on her future…but pretty quickly it goes beyond that to, in every single conversation with anyone being, “*I* have to marry well, we have to keep doing this for *me*, *I* want this thing, it’s going to go this way because *I* need it to go this way.” Maybe it’s because, being visual rather than written, we’re not in her head, and it doesn’t translate well? But maybe I’m giving Daphne too much credit.
Also, does anyone else find the music incredibly distracting? Because I am constantly sitting there trying to figure out which pop song they’ve Regency-fied. It started out fun in a Knights’ Tale sort of way, but that wore on me quickly.
I love the ending of the Duke and I. I’ve reread the ending multiple times. So I just skipped straight to the last couple of episodes to see how they handled the ending. Because if they screwed that up, I really wasn’t interested in the rest of it. And yep. They left out most of the dialogue that I love. I agree with this review. Why did they leave out so much of Quinn’s dialogue? That’s a big part of what makes the books so loveable.
Some thoughts on “that” scene. I didn’t watch it so I’m just going off on my thoughts from the book. First, of all in the book, I do think it is pretty clear that Simon is hiding his true purpose (not having kids because of his father) by taking advantage of Daphne’s ignorance regarding sex. That does bother me that he’s not honest with her. THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE DAPHNE’S ACTIONS! But! In the book, it is suggested her actions were a spur of a moment decision. Also, in that time period continuing the line would have been considered her duty. In fact if people knew Simon intended not carrying of the line of the Duke they would be appalled. Once again, not excusing Daphne’s actions. But I wish they had a fight with these type of arguments. “I have a duty to continue your line!” “Don’t I have the right to decide for myself?!” With Daphne eventually apologizing for her actions. I don’t know. I’ve just been trying to figure out how to fix that scene. I’m probably more sympathetic to Daphne than most here. I think Simon wasn’t completely innocent even though Daphne was much more in the wrong. But there is a reason I’ve avoided rereading that scene for years. It is very problematic. Thanks to anyone willing to keep reading through all my rambling.
It’s interesting in all of the discussions of race in the series, there is little attention paid to the relationship between Simon and Will. It is Will Simon seeks out when he returns to London. He happens to run into Anthony. It Will who he turns to in distress. It is Will and his wife Alice who picks him up and nurture him when he gets drunk. Will and Alice are two Black characters with a loving family and a strong relationship, something you don’t always see. Will who is based on an actual historical figure, is intriguing to me because his story is a reflection of the role of Black entertainers, then and now.
I’m guessing, since they have totally changed the Marina character from “To Sir Phillip With Love”, that they will go in a different direction with Eloise’s story. As someone who has raised daughters, I think Eloise can only be the rebel because Daphne is the dutiful daughter, much like Anthony and Benedict. I’m not a big fan of the way they have portrayed Anthony but it’s a small quibble.
I liked it. It was bright and airy and everybody looked pretty and it was a romance. Sometimes that is all you want.
I also liked the casting. Daphne was a bit problematic because she was boring. The actress is quite pretty and probably would have been a ‘diamond of the first water’ in Ye Olde Regency Times, but the actress lacked screen charisma. She definitely could not hold my attention when she was on screen with Simon because he was bringing all the eye brow smoulder and sardonic eyebrow you’d ever want in a romance novel hero. And the less said abut her two sad little bangs the better.
I both liked and disliked the Marina stuff. The actress was gorgeous and had quite a bit of screen presence, but the optics of having the one debutante of color in such dire straits was a bit yikes. However, I actually found her storyline more involved and angsty than Simon and Daphne’s and was really impatient to get back to her and see what happens. Also it helps that Ruby Parker (Marina) and Polly Walker (Mrs. Featherington) had excellent on screen chemistry and worked so well together. Polly Walker was just excellent all around anyway.
I also disagree with the idea that Lady Danbury was a magical negro stereotype. It feels reductive. First because the character really acted as written in the books and second, the character as written on screen worked as a tireless advocate for Simon more than anything else. She stood in Loco Parentis for him. I saw her as really wanting this boy who had such a messed up childhood to find happiness and win. Also I think it downplays how much she has made a place for herself. There is one really good quote of hers that I loved:
“When I was a girl, some centuries ago, I was afraid even of my own reflection. I entered a room and attempted to dissolve into the shadows. But there is only so long one in a position such as ours can hide. I knew I would have to step into the light someday and I could not very well be frightened. So, instead, I made myself frightening. I sharpened my wit, my wardrobe, and my eye, and I made myself the most terrifying creature in any room I entered.”
And that plays into what I saw as another theme for the show which was how different women in different ranks of society: from courtesans, to queens to debutantes to country cousins all were in so many ways very powerless but were trying their hardest to make a space and survive and maybe even be happy a little: Sienna and her insistence on making Anthony understand how important his role in her life was, Madame Delacroix and her knowledge that her discretion and her carefully curated facade meant her livelihood, Marina knowing she had no choices but trying to choose the lesser of all her evils, Lady Featherington and her constant hustle for relevancy.
And finally I am glad the show didn’t go too deeply into racial politics. It would have landed with a thud because the tone, imo just wasn’t there. Sometimes it is nice just to wallow in the alternate universe and let POC dress up in the historical pretty too. Sometimes it is nice not to have to stand around and discuss your blackness or your gayness or whatever as if that is something you stand around discussing all the time amongst ourselves. So in that sense it was a nice way to end a fraught year.
I have not gotten to THAT scene yet, but I just watched a couple of episodes last night and have thoughts. I’ve also just reread the first four books. Mostly that I hate what they’ve done with a lot of the characters. They’ve made them mean, when what I liked about reading Quinn was that her characters were rarely actually mean. I think this comes from completely ignoring Quinn’s dialogue and perhaps trying to create more drama? Whistledown is much more cutting in the show than in the book and I think the show suffers for it. And that extends to Penelope. I don’t like what they’ve done with her, especially the fight with Eloise. And I found all the comments about Siena in this post interesting because I found her a little boring and I don’t know why. Well, maybe it’s because she’s just supposed to serve as the hot love interest of Anthony and not much else? And speaking of Anthony, I hate what they’ve done with his character. I also hate what they’ve done to Violet. They’ve taken her from a force to be reckoned with and turned her into a nothingburger. I do like Danbury, though need to go read the Refinery 29 article. And it is pretty to look at with the costumes and set designs but I am dreading that upcoming scene.
I’m enjoying watching it for the costumes and ridiculous plots. The only characters I actually like are Eloise, Lady Danbury, Queen Charlotte, and Mrs. Featherington because at least she’s HONEST about what she’s doing.
(BTW, When Featherington took Marina to the poor area, I thought she was going to an abortionist, and I’m surprised that hasn’t been brought up.)
I don’t like Simon (although he’s certainly pretty) because I’m not here for rakes with angst and daddy issues. He has enough age and experience that he should have known to stay away from Daphne in the garden. He should also have been upfront about why he ‘couldn’t give her children’.
I don’t like Daphne because she’s prissy and bossy. She also did quite wrong in The Scene. You had a narrow escape, Prince Friederich.
I don’t like Penelope because she’s only objecting to Marina’s plan because she wants Colin for herself. If Marina had been going after Benedict, she would have been fine.
Marina’s ok, but other than being in trouble doesn’t have a lot of personality.
I don’t like Violet because it’s inexcusable to let your daughter go into a marriage with that level of ignorance. I think the Regency times were much more open about sex anyway. Jane Austen wrote about ‘natural daughters’ and no one thought Lydia and Wickham were running away to play in a whist tournament.
I don’t like Anthony because he’s a douche.
I don’t like Siena because as a woman of her time, she should have known what she was getting into with Anthony.
I’m impressed that everyone stuck with it through all the episodes. I watched the first one, and while I think they did a great job casting some of the roles (Simon, Lady Danbury, Eloise) I couldn’t get over how bland Daphne was, and the brothers all seem interchangeably boring to me compared to how I had them all imagined when I read the series over a decade ago. The costumes and settings while great weren’t enough to get me to stick around for the most cringe-worthy storyline in the series. I think that’s one plot line they could have messed with for the better.
Basically this is a case of the tv show not living up to the world I built in my mind around these characters, and a lot of the charm of the Quinn characterizations was missing for me, so I cut my losses after the first episode. I would consider giving the second season a shot depending on how the reviews come back, and just treat each season like a “book” rather than a continuing series.
Agreed about Mariana and THAT content from episode six – good God, no one would have complained if they’d cut it out.
I cannot for the life of me figure out if I actually want to watch this show. I loved the books, I don’t love Shonda Rhimes shows (I have watched some occasionally and just never felt strongly enough to continue watching) and this show sounds like AN EXTREMELY MIXED BAG. Reviews are ALL OVER THE PLACE, this one included. Should I even bother?
I made it through two full episodes then half-watched the rest. The Duke and I is not my favorite Bridgerton, and I felt like the show kept the problematic bits problematic without exploring them, and then added more problematic bits? Loved Lady Danbury. Ever since I saw Adjoa Andoh on an episode of Silent Witness I was 100% here for her in this role. And I look forward to more Eloise, for sure. Feels like there were a lot of missed opportunities, in terms of character development and humor and exploration of race and status…I don’t know. I’m glad the Bitchery is here to discuss because I actually had so many thoughts after watching it that I ended up ranting to my father and stepmother when we met up for a socially distanced Christmas walk at a rest stop (as you do these days). I’m pretty sure they weren’t expecting that degree of energy from me when they casually asked if I’d checked out Bridgerton on Netflix.
I loooved it, BUT agree with a lot of the above too! This really was the tv event that I needed to wrap up 2020.
My biggest issue with *that* scene, and more generally with the Daphne/Simon rift, is that their feelings and motivations and deception were more complex and messy in the book than the show and therefore more understandable even if wrong. Simon’s speech impediment isn’t addressed in the same detail either, which I think detracts from our understanding of him, and also the discussion he and Daphne have about that has more detail and emotional heft in the book. Beyond just Daphne/Simon, there’s a lot of great dialogue in the book that isn’t used.
I think we need to hope that Kate (A’s love interest) is a WOC because I’m not optimistic that Marina is going to get a HEA. I’d also like to see even broader racial diversity. I think the queen had some maids that were Asian but it would be good to see Asian main characters.
Eloise’s book is my least favourite because of Sir Phillip (who to be fair was probably a reasonably accurate man of the period). Marina in the show is captivating and I don’t know how they’ll handle it. Daphne’s book was my second-least because of many of the mentioned issues. (Oof, I forgot that Benedict is boring to me too)
I will watch subsequent seasons but meh. It’s so beautiful though!!
I think I read one of the books in this series some years ago, but I have zero memory of it, so I went into watching the show on its own merits, rather than having the books to compare it to, and ended up staying up most of the night to watch it from beginning to end.
I can see the problems that have been pointed out, but I really got so caught up in this show and how beautiful it looked – although, yes, I agree that there sure was a LOT of angst for being based on a romance novel. I loved Lady Danbury (how about that jaunty red hat she was wearing at one point? Amazing.).
I have read the series a couple of times and the first book (The Duke & I), was always my least favorite. I was always uncomfortable with THAT scene but am surprised no one mentioned how the show changed it. In the book, after an argument with Daphne Simon came home so drunk he was almost unconscious when Daphne initiated sex. That made it that much more uncomfortable.
I also liked it, for the same reasons @TinaNoir mentioned. To the extent it did discuss race, I thought it gave a grounding to why you were seeing POC at all, but I didn’t feel the need for it to get into all the implications. I also haven’t read the books in awhile, and was fine with them being source material, without being totally faithful to script or dialogue. I think that’s just par for the course with adaptions (Game of Thrones, Outlander, etc.). I actually find it interesting how adaptation changes the story while still including the elements of the story.
Regarding Marina – in the book series, the Eloise book happens about 10 years after the events of the Duke and I. I think Colin/Pen was the same time jump as well. I could see Marina being okay the convenient marriage initially and then it just not going well. Allows another exploration of how screwed women were with choices in the era, and could be another interesting plot foil, depending on how they handle it.
Anthony the asshole – My take (based on book knowledge): He’s resigned to dying young, but doesn’t want to actually fall in love with someone that would be devastated like his mother was? I kept watching how he checked his dad’s pocketwatch, as if tracking the amount of time he has left. He was grasping at straws/opportunities with Siena to have something for himself, but he absolutely bungled it. It’s setting up another broody hero who doesn’t talk about his problems, but I don’t think he’s unredeemable.
The Scene – I guess I just don’t have an issue with it as portrayed in the show. Daphne doesn’t actually know where babies come from. She doesn’t know about sex. that’s like a whole plotline in the show – the girls don’t know how babies are made and even with Violet’s fertility, she’s squeamish about talking about it. Simon knows this because he has a (very funny) scene where he has to obliquely explain masturbation to her. Simon takes advantage of that information to be able to have sex with Daphne while still keeping his vow, but there’s information asymmetry going on, and it’s in his favor. He’s got the power in the relationship in a way Daphne doesn’t, and he uses it to withhold information from Daphne. I saw the scene as her trying to confirm information she learned from the conversation with the maid/housekeeper-person about babies – and correcting the information asymmetry. So the scene ends up be as much (or more) about seeing if Simon is lying to her, as her trying to get pregnant against his will. Daphne did annoy me in some of her subsequent scenes (with Marina, maybe? I watched it all Christmas Day), because there was a lesson I wanted her to learn that I think she didn’t, but I don’t remember what it was.
*Shrug*
It’s… pretty. I’m not disappointed because I figured they’d mess around with the characters & the plot & surprise! not surprise! I was right. But still, awfully pretty.
Rewatching most of it today (skipping forward through some of the sideplots) and am still so struck by the look and feel of the production being so lush and mapping pretty closely to how I imagine romance novels when I read them. Simon wearing those boots and those billowing white shirts stalking through the halls…whew! Despite my nitpicks, I will still watch the hell out of future seasons should they arrive. 🙂
I liked it as a pretty pseudohistorical drama but I HATED it as a Bridgestone adaption! I’ve only read the first four books so I may be missing out on some later revelations, but it felt like none of the characters were the same except for the name and some of the relationships
Why was Daphne a diamond of the first water and in her first season? Where did Marina come from? Why was Anthony having a random romance and in love when he was determined to never fall in love or get married? Who decided Benedict and Anthony needed to look like twins while Colin looks like the guy who played Jacob in Twilight? Why can I only tell A and B apart by the sideburns? What happened to Violet ruling the Bridgestone roost? Why was Mrs Featherington a villain? And why (oh why) was Penelope wearing evening gowns to walk during the day with Eloise?
Gosh. Am I the only one who liked Daphne? She’s a young girl (just made her presentation, so first season…18-20 years old) who has been told all her life that she has to do well for the sisters who will follow. She is willing to make the sacrifice to marry Nigel when her sisters’ futures are threatened. Because let’s face it, in those times, her brothers would be fine. She is very ignorant, and has been kept that way beyond her wedding night because of her mother and Simon. It’s sad how people are willing to forgive Simon, a (28-30 years old, I’m guessing) man who has knowledge, independence, power, and a society that will forgive him a great many errors. Is it because he’s hot, or because he’s a man?
I’m not saying Daphne did not make any mistakes. I’m saying hers are understandable, just as Simon’s are. Picture this, you’re young, have very little power and agency beyond what your husband grants you. You figure it out after the irreversible wedding that your husband lied to you and is actively working to withhold the future that you have dreamed of all your life. You don’t know his horrible backstory like the audience. 😉 What would you be willing to do? Frankly, I think that if Simon had not shown up at Vauxhall, Daphne would have gone back inside, accepted the Prince, and lived a content life with oodles of children. Her best life, probably not… but Daphne, as a woman of her time, would have been content.
P.S. I binged the whole series and loved it. The settings were beautiful, the music fun, the actors talented…what more could I have asked for (and gotten)? I like the fleshed out character backstories. The thing I liked the least was the constant involvement of the Queen, which made her seem petty for caring about who Daphne marries, and not the running of a kingdom.
I ADORED the first couple of episodes, but after that my enjoyment level rather dipped for the reasons everyone has given – but I haven’t binge-watched a series this fast for a long time and I do still have a high level of enthusiasm for the next season. In romances the main character is usually the heroine rather than the hero, so I have high hopes and expectations that next season focuses on a WOC.
It was noticeable (at least to me, being bi) that Benedict Bridgerton seemed to be queer-coded; he was certainly intrigued by learning that his new artist friend had a gay lover, raising my hopes for a future gay romance. These were then temporarily dashed when Benedict ran back into the arms of a woman, but as the series has shown it isn’t shy about making some big changes, I can still hope for a queer romance for at least one Bridgerton (and possibly for Eloise too?).
I did like Daphne and I thought she and Simon had terrific chemistry. I liked their banter. I thought the scene where she described her impressions of his mother’s favorite painting was inspired and probably where he knew he was lost. But he was so used to running away that he used the Prince’s interest as a way out. I could watch his speech to the Queen on a loop!
It’s very pretty. Simon and Lady Danbury are great. I liked Violet as well. I’m not really loving Eloise (I know many people do); I think they made her into the classic “I’m not like other girls!” character, which isn’t exactly right. Not sure that Colin is charming enough, but he wasn’t immediately wrong. Benedict was something of a nonentity, which is interesting, given that his book is my favorite one in the series.
My biggest issue with the adaptation is with Daphne– not primarily that her hair color is wrong, which it is– but that Daphne needs to exude warmth and charisma. You have to really, really like Daphne. Daphne does some appalling things, and, if you don’t have that base of likability to work with, it’s hard to even come close to forgiving her for that.
Penelope also needs to be very likable, and I’m not sure the Marina storyline makes her seem that way?
Anthony really wasn’t portrayed with any redeeming features; he’s overbearing and hypocritical. That makes it hard to really sympathize much, and it’s difficult to see how they’re going to manage to get beyond that negative portrayal in the second season. (And clearly his story would be next, given that they made such a point of the bee.)
So, eh? But I did watch all of it.
Yay, I’ve been hoping for this review! I’ve read a bunch already, but none by people I thought got the genre.
I’ve been thinking that if we get more seasons (which I figure we will, since it’s being talked about so much and it’s Shonda), the book plots/romances will probably be condensed, since it’s the rare show that goes on for eight seasons nowadays. Maybe this can help with the Bidgerton boys’ general uninterestingness.
IDK, I feel about this show as I feel about this book series in general: meh. The only Bridgerton couple I enjoy is Colin/Pen, because there’s this nice intellectual admiration to their relationship. I’m happy there’s a romance show with a big budget and profile, but I feel there are so many better book series out there! I even enjoy the Smyth-Smiths, Bridgerton’s sequel, better. And we could still have kept Lady Danbury. Still, since this is what we have, I would give it a C and hope they do better with future couples.
At this point, I rather hope the show just cuts its losses with Marina. Having her divorce Phillip offscreen would be a fine way to give him some drama and spare us her from her grim book five fate (where she was more of a plot device then a real continuing character). Then bring in a leading lady of color who can get a genuine happy ending! Romance novel adaptations need to avoid adding on the angst like with Virgin River’s millstone pregnant ex plot; people want to feel good watching these shows just like they do reading the books.
So what happened to Francesca?? She was in the first episode or two and then disappeared. Did they mention where she was and I missed it?
@June, there was a mention of Francesca being away in Bath (forget the reason). I think she does show up in the last episode.
Loved the costumes (even with a shocking lack of bonnets!) and setting.
RACE; As a POC, I would rather it was purely color blind. The issues are too weighty for the material. 200 years later, Harry (who will probably not inherit the throne) married Meghan with all kinds of racial hits against her, so I don’t think one conversation would solve everything. I also would have liked to see South Asian, Middle Eastern, and other Europeans (the white characters seemed very white).
ANTONY: Enough said.
BENEDICT: Making his love interest gay would be an interesting turn–in the book I believe they live in the country due to her being illegitimate, so it wouldn’t be far off to have them live in the country for another reason.
THE QUEEN; She’s not in the books but I LOVED her!
PACING: I think the series would have been better served if the first book was 4 episodes, then you wouldn’t have the dramatic padding of the Marina and Siena stories. I would have done the first three books in the first season (12 episodes), the middle three, then the last two with the extended epilogues to round it out. Or some combination–are they really going to do 8 seasons?
BOOKS I WOULD I LIKE TO SEE FILMED IN A SERIES: The Walsh Family by Kate Canterbary. Contemporary Boston Architects with plenty of drama, humor and heat (and smart, competent women), Victorian Rebels series by Kerrigan Brynne. Super dose of crazy sauce, perfect for a series. The Reluctant Royals by Alyssa Cole, Contemporary, great characters, great fun. What series would you like dramatized?
I haven’t read the books. I binged the show with the lense of a historical romance fan. I loved it. A series written by women, for women, made for a woman’s gaze, where sex scenes were very sensual – yes please!
I’m sorry that as an “adaption” it wasn’t everything, for the book fans. I stayed far away, knowing this was to be a modern adaption. I didn’t want to set myself up for failure.
I need Marina to have an HEA. Here’s my future Bridgerton adaptation headcanon: Marina and Sir Philip have a marriage of convenience that turns out well in all the best ways. Her depression is real and nuanced and dealt with and turns out okay. Marina being with Philip frees up Eloise to become half of an f/f Regency power couple with Pen. Fucking up the patriarchy and whatnot. (Downside: Eloise may never find out how babies are made. Possibly will think it’s “cake” forever.) Benedict, as mentioned by a previous commenter, was supes interested in Gay Artist Friend’s lifestyle, so I have hopes that he’ll get a queer story as well. Then eh, idk, stick Colin with Sophie or something instead of Ben. Whatevs. TV Colin never charmed me the way Book Colin did, and I find myself unconvinced that this version of him could really have true chemistry with (my beloved) Penelope.
Oh, and I’m ALL KINDS OF here for some Corgi Justice next season (hopefully doled out by a Kate of Color). Anthony needs his metaphorical ass handed to him.
@WS—I thought Penelope was very real and complex in a way that is perhaps not typical for a romance. I thought the way she dealt with trying to stop Marina and Colin was in keeping with her values—she tried both times to appeal to their senses of love and honor and never played the trump card she could have.
She plays her trump card as Lady Whistledown, which means public ruination. That’s what’s bothering me.
Haven’t read the books or seen the show, but this interview with Lizzy Talbot, the show’s intimacy coordinator (aka sex scene choreographer, itself a fairly new but necessary industry job) is illuminating:
https://www.vulture.com/2021/01/bridgerton-sex-scenes-how-they-were-filmed.html
I’m glad to see this review. I’m not going to watch the show. I read all the books and knew I wouldn’t/couldn’t watch the series unless they fixed That Scene.
I spent the first couple days after the show came out in a low level funk, worrying about my non romance reading online friends who kept posting about how much they were enjoying how light and fluffy it was. I googled for spoilers and once I realized that they’d changed That Scene but didn’t exactly fix it, I posted a PSA / warning for my fellow survivors that it’s not all fluffy escapism and that Simon and Daphne’s dark moment is pretty freaking dark, with a link with spoilers.