This Rec League request spawned a bit of a debate a SBTB HQ. Before we get to our thoughts, here’s the request from Jacqui:
I really want to read a good noir detective book with a romance in it (preferably between the detective and someone else). Penn (Penelope) Williamson’s Mortal Sins comes to mind. Am not fussy about the setting or time period. A good noir murder mystery rather than a normal crime book. Not too much gore (not a particular feature of noir anyway). But I want a romance in it. Am just feeling in the mood for something that is not only a romance. Hope you can help!
Though Jacqui mentions some features she’s looking for, a couple of us were confused about what aspects of noir she wanted.
Carrie:Â True noir romance is hard to find because the genre is antithetical to romance.
RASL is a noir comic with a lot of romance, but no HEA.
What the Lady Wants by Jennifer Crusie is a comic romance with touches of noir and Fast Women by Crusie isn’t noir but it has noir homages.
Elyse:Â A Dangerous Invitation by Erica Monroe
Sarah: For a reader who doesn’t know quite what that is, can you explain how you are defining or identifying noir?
Carrie: It’s a term that originated in film. It subverts the idea of heroism, and usually features a cynical protagonist and characters who are morally gray at best. Justice is often not achieved. Examples in film include The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Chinatown.
Romance is almost always an element of noir but given the shady nature of the characters and their cynical view on life there is rarely a romantic HEA.
Well, there are some noir movies (sorry, I know she’s looking for books, I just know more about movies) that DO have happy endings (The Big Sleep) and there’s also stuff that isn’t classically noir but is noir-influenced.
Elyse: Is she looking for a morally gray detective hero? Is she looking for mystery with a hint of romance or romantic suspense inspired by the detective genre? Is romance across several books acceptable?
The thing with noir is it’s usually about sad man feelings and duplicitous women. It’s not very romantic.
Carrie: Commenters on my review of RASL listed some feminist noir but I can’t vouch for HEAs.
The message of noir, by which I mean classic, hard core noir, is that people want to exist in a world where there is good and bad, but actually everyone is some of both and usually bad wins.
Elyse: A Dangerous Invitation plays with some noir themes but that’s the only one I can think of.
Amanda: At the very least, she wants a murder mystery with romance and a detective character.
Carrie: I’d try Fast Women by Jennifer Crusie then. Plus it has homages to The Maltese Falcon. A tough detective telling a tiny dog, “I won’t play the sap for you, sweetheart” is a scene not to be missed.
Sarah: I wonder if some of the darker contemporaries with morally ambiguous heroes might fit. Like the Professional series from Kresley Cole, or the Halle series.
Crap. The one with tattoos.
Shooting something. SCARS. Shooting Scars. Crap that’s book 2. I can’t remember 1.
Also maybe Anne Stuart.
Amanda:Â Black Ice by Anne Stuart could fit!
I don’t think I’d recommend The Professional ( A | BN | K | G | AB ) as there’s no mystery element. Just corn field fingerblasting.
Sarah: HAHAHAHAHA
Then never mind! The thing is, this is not my genre. cynicism, pessimism – not why I’m here, you know?
Carrie: Same in books, although I used to like a few of the movies for the rapid fire dialogue and the visuals
Amanda: Halle MIGHT fit. There may have been a detective element; I’ll have to double check.
Elyse:Â Amanda, I got to the cornfield scene and was like WTF am I reading? I thought it was a romantic suspense.
Amanda: SURPRISE!
Over the Line by Lisa Derochers ( A | BN | K | G | AB ) might fit as well.
Carrie: I’m with Elyse – we would need to know what parts of noir she likes. Detective? Banter? Morally murky characters? The hot blonde/helpful brunette? The visual style (lot’s of high contrasts and great clothes). Does she like the time period of the more classic noirs? Would she like stuff that Elyse likes like Gone Girl, where there’s a twist?
What do you think? Any romance you know of with various aspects of noir? Care to join in on our friendly debate?
I’ll second the Elizabeth Peters rec’s- especially the Vicki Bliss series, though it hasn’t aged as well as you might hope. Oh, that hero, though. Damn.
Sayers is also amazing.
I remember loving a title called “The Thin Woman” by Dorothy Cannel, which I thought was a good send up of the genre, and centered on a romance. I haven’t read it in years, though. Not sure how it would hold up.
a fun lgbt noir set in san francisco: blackmail, my love by katie gilmartin.
I also recommend the Thin Man! I loved the movie and remember enjoying the book.
I’m also struggling with the “noir romance” tag here. I grew up reading a lot of those darker romances with mystery elements, but I’d definitely categorize them more as gothics–ie, Phyllis Whitney, Jane Aiken Hodge, Mary Stewart, Victoria Holt/Philippa Carr, Dorothy Eden, Barbara Michaels, etc.
Also, it’s been awhile since I read it, but Winston Graham’s Marnie (the basis for the Hitchcock film) might fit. (Graham also wrote many other great books, including the Poldark series.)
I don’t really think of Sayers’s Lord Peter Wimsey books as either gothic or noir, but they’re fabulous period books.
For something newer, maybe Rosie Claverton’s Amy Lane mysteries?
Sorry to be drawing such a blank here.
I love the comparison above between noir and gothic. I see noir as romance in the old sense of the word–but definitely not the new.
I’ll second the Alan Furst and Davis’s early M. Didius Falco novels. Also Michael Pearce’s Seymour of Special Branch novels, starting with A Dead Man in Trieste.
Finally, I squeed a bit for Rebecca Pawel’s comment–I’ve read the first two books in her series and they are EXCELLENT.
Erica Monroe’s 2nd Rookery Rogue book is also noirish, with a murder and a police detective hero, “Secrets in Scarlet”.
Barbara Hambly’s Benjamin January mystery series set in 19th century New Orleans I think is very noir. There is a romance that starts a few books in. The first one is called “A Free Man of Color”. Also, Anna Lee Huber’s Lady Darby series, that starts with “The Anatomist’s Wife”, slow burn romance. “The Companion” by Ann Granger is very good, Victorian noir.
I do recommend all of the Easy Rawlins series by Walter Mosely, there’s nobody today who writes better noir than him, set in mid-20th century Los Angeles.
Joan Wolf has some books that are on the edge of noir, like “No Dark Place”.
I love Sayers and Ngaio Marsh but I don’t think they’re dark enough to be noir, maybe cozy British procedurals?
Tracy Grant’s Malcolm and Suzanne Rannoch books are a combination of spy and mystery plots, and they have that moral ambiguity that is a hallmark of noir.
The Thin Man was my initial thought, and Jennifer Crusie maybe, but count me in with everyone who wants clarification on noir romance.
I would say Robert B Parker is worth checking out, particularly the Spencer books, although the romance doesn’t kick in immediately in the series, and they’re detective novels with romance more than romances. Particularly recommend if you’ve ever lived in Boston.
Also, Lisa Kleypas had a Bow Street Runners series that had some noir elements, although I would categorize them as historical romance.
Faye Kellerman has a detective/romance series that my MiL adores.
Sandra Brown, if you like the crazysauce, often has a lot of mistrust and murder in with the romance.
And I never personally got into the JD Robb books but they seemed to be going for a kind of futuristic noir romance thing.
What about The Celestial Blues series by Vicki Pettersson? There is a strong noir vibe. It’s about an angel who comes back to find out who murdered him and his wife 50 years earlier, and falls for the reporter helping him.
First book is The Taken: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12925631-the-taken
I’ve always enjoyed the mix of mystery and romance in a lot of Georgette Heyer’s mysteries.
Going slightly off-topic, would anyone be able to tell how I can watch The Maltese Falcon or the Thin Man movies? Every time I read the Crusie books mentioned here, I want to watch them, but haven’t found them on any streaming service so far.
@a Traveller: Public libraries might have copies of both films, also they can be bought for a not-unreasonable sum at Amazon and other retailers.
I would highly recommend books by Megan Abbott. Her books are wonderful noir- but it is true noir and there is rarely the HEA, but there is some star crossed romance for sure. Her books have a wonderful feminist perspective and as one of my fav reviews puts it “the femme fatales are complicit in their own downfall”.
– Bury Me Deep
– Die a Little
– Queenpin
I’d like to second the Josh Lanyon recommendation (m/m romance) and especially point to his – well – noir historicals. “This Rough Magic” is set in 1930s San Franciso has the required cynical private eye and a homme fatale and lots of chemistry between the two of them. “Snowball in Hell” has an adventurous reporter and a homicide detective. Both books have a very noir flair and some period slang, a good mystery at the centre of the story and a wonderful romance plot with HFNs. The first one is more of a comedy.
And I think it is the m/m pairing that gets the books around the issue that noir does not usually feature a happy ending. Even if they get together (which they do), a gay couple will not have an unambiguous happy ending considering the historical time period (lots of outside pressure, no living together or even getting married etc.) Even if the hero gets his man there is a certain ambiguity to their happiness.
If by noir, she means hard boiled, I love Robert B Parker’s Spenser series. The detective is kind of a thug but basically a good guy. His sidekick Hawk is a lot more morally ambiguous and mercenary. In most of the books,Spenser has a long-term love interest with whom he is very romantic.
Diana Norman was amazing, and I’m still in mourning that there will be no more of her books. She also wrote under the pen name Ariana Franklin, so you need to look for those books as well. P.B Ryan wrote a mystery series with a romantic arc set in Boston A few years after the Civil War. Not noir, although the hero is an opium addict when the heroine meets him. Important to start with the first book, Still Life with Murder. Totally agree about Elizabeth George. She writes well, and these are murder mysteries, but I hate it when I feel the authorial hand manipulating the characters and events, in this case to ensure maximum grief.
@Susan (#44) I just started the first Amy Lane mystery on your suggestion and I am loving it! I love discovering awesome new (to me) mystery series, so thanks!
Hi everyone, I’m just giving additional support for two series already mentioned. (These both have a permanent place on my small keeper shelf, in actual book format!)
C.S. Harris – the Sebastian St Cyr series. Takes place in the Regency world (which is my sweet spot for romance), but focuses on the grittier aspects. The murder-thriller plot lines drive the story and can be quite dark, involving politics, psychology, class, and gender. There are ongoing (evolving) relationship subplots, but no promise of HEA – lots of complications. The hero is part of the aristocracy, but rebels against the power plays, cruelty, and hypocrisy displayed by his peers – he fights against injustice, but it’s portrayed realistically as a battle that might never be won.
Laurie R King and the Mary Russell-Sherlock Homes series. I enjoy this variation, where Holmes is given a young, brilliant, feminist, headstrong female partner. I’m partial to the earlier books in the series which place greater emphasis on their mentorship-turned-partnership, with the mystery plots more in the background. (I know this series can be hit-or-miss for people, but it’s a hit for me.)
Since this seems to be a broad delve into noir, I’ll throw in the Sarah Tolerance series by Madeleine E. Robins. It’s an alternate universe Regency. The heroine is the tough, private Investigator.
It’s definitely a different kind of series!
Good point, Georgie! There’s also “Don’t Look Down” by Jennifer Crusie and Bob Mayer.
You might take the Crusie / Mayer crime novels as two romance leads turning around what everyone else was trying to play as a noir narrative.
Also, for banter and some other superficial noir characteristics, how about Julie James, Something About You:
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/jack-pallas
I must be the only person who doesn’t like Crusie.
Do the In Death books count? How about Roberts’ The Witness.
Some of JAK/Amanda Quick’s books, particularly if you don’t mind paranormal.
I’m reading The Anatomist’s Apprentice right now, which has a romantic element but isn’t really romance. Georgian forensic scientist murder mystery.
I have an Akashic Noir anthology on hold. I haven’t read any of them but was intrigued enough by the Tehran Noir blurb.
Hi Everyone. I’m the person that put the initial request in. Its been a busy week so I haven’t been able to weigh in till now. Thanks everyone for the recommendations. They all look great and I have a whole page full of possible books to read. I’m sorry there was a little confusion about what it was I was after. Its true that noir does tend to be a bit dark and grim without a HEA but that’s why I asked the Bitchery as when did we let genre boundaries confine us? I guess in my head I wanted to have a protagonist that was a bit cynical who had probably suffered a certain degree of loss in his life and the female protagonist was strong, smart, sassy and was able to partner with him to solve the crime. I didn’t particularly want romantic suspense as I thought that was too contemporary and I am not a huge fan of navy seals and counter intelligence type stories. I guess I wanted moody but still wanted to eat my cake as well by having some kind of HEA. Anyway, I am excited by so many of the suggestions, even the ones not really noir because they are British or more historical. Thank you again for all your suggestions and for taking the time to help a gal out. My first comment didn’t show up so hope this one does.
Late here, but I adore mystery. 🙂
You definitely want to check out CS Harris. The romance isn’t in a single book, and it takes a long time for the hero to get his wife, but I LOVE the hero–he fought in the Napoleonic wars and when the book starts he’s really messed up.
I’ll also second Ellis Peter’s Brother Cadfael series (1100s). The hero is a former crusader and Benedictine monk, but there are star crossed lovers in each book.
I’m ALSO a huge fan of Robert Parker’s Spenser series. I <3 Hawk.
Robert Crais is similar to Robert Parker–the hero's sometime partner is far more morally ambiguous, and eventually gets his own books.
Michelle Diener has written two series I quite liked–the Regency London series (Banquet of Lies was my favorite), and the Susanna Horenbout and John Parker (1520s)–the latter is based upon two real historical figures, which made me all the more fascinated.
Tracy / Teresa Grant might also interest you. The couple are spies during the Napoleonic war–for opposite sides. It's confusing because the series is written with the characters as Charles & Melanie Fraser / Malcom & Suzanne Rannoch–I think it depends upon the publisher–and the first book was rewritten, and I prefer the re-write. Her other series, The Lescaut Quartet, is set in the same time period, and has four sets of intersecting characters' the first book has a hero whose mother was from India.
Anna Lee Huber's series starting with the Anatomist's Wife (1830s) is a current favorite. My grandmother would have adored those (She also loved the Spenser books and CS Harris (she also loved SF TV shows (I miss her so much))).
Candace Robb is another historical mystery series I really liked–it's set mid 1300s and the main characters get married. The Apothecary Rose is the first book–hero is a spy, heroine is an apothecary.
And for something completely different, Liz William's Detective Inspector Chen series is SFF / Mystery. The hero is a police officer, his wife is a demon, his eventual partner is a demon, and his wife has a guardian that is a badger / tea kettle. I really can't explain it any better than that, sadly, but I really loved it. Snake Agent is the first book.
Oh, I *despite* time travel, so no Outlander for me, but Diana Gabaldon's Lord John series is another favorite. There is boinking more than romance, since Lord John is a homosexual and it's not like things were easy for him. I'd start with Lord John and the Hand of Devils, which is a collection of three novellas.
GAH. I *despise* time travel. Oops.
Jenn Bennett’s Roaring Twenties series is paranormal romance with noir elements – especially in terms of atmosphere. Morally gray heroes (bootlegging family) and two of the 3 heroines have a mysterious past. I really enjoyed them. At least one has been reviewed here awhile ago.
http://www.jennbennett.net/books/roaring20s
Late to the game here, but how about The Lotus Palace and The Jade Temptress by Jeannie Lin? The setting is Tang Dynasty China but the hardboiled detective / noir-ish feel is definitely there. Fog, late night streets, suspicion, it’s all like a better Margery Allingham. I think it might work for what you’re looking for, Rec League hopeful!