This Rec League request spawned a bit of a debate a SBTB HQ. Before we get to our thoughts, here’s the request from Jacqui:
I really want to read a good noir detective book with a romance in it (preferably between the detective and someone else). Penn (Penelope) Williamson’s Mortal Sins comes to mind. Am not fussy about the setting or time period. A good noir murder mystery rather than a normal crime book. Not too much gore (not a particular feature of noir anyway). But I want a romance in it. Am just feeling in the mood for something that is not only a romance. Hope you can help!
Though Jacqui mentions some features she’s looking for, a couple of us were confused about what aspects of noir she wanted.
Carrie: True noir romance is hard to find because the genre is antithetical to romance.
RASL is a noir comic with a lot of romance, but no HEA.
What the Lady Wants by Jennifer Crusie is a comic romance with touches of noir and Fast Women by Crusie isn’t noir but it has noir homages.
Elyse: A Dangerous Invitation by Erica Monroe
Sarah: For a reader who doesn’t know quite what that is, can you explain how you are defining or identifying noir?
Carrie: It’s a term that originated in film. It subverts the idea of heroism, and usually features a cynical protagonist and characters who are morally gray at best. Justice is often not achieved. Examples in film include The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Chinatown.
Romance is almost always an element of noir but given the shady nature of the characters and their cynical view on life there is rarely a romantic HEA.
Well, there are some noir movies (sorry, I know she’s looking for books, I just know more about movies) that DO have happy endings (The Big Sleep) and there’s also stuff that isn’t classically noir but is noir-influenced.
Elyse: Is she looking for a morally gray detective hero? Is she looking for mystery with a hint of romance or romantic suspense inspired by the detective genre? Is romance across several books acceptable?
The thing with noir is it’s usually about sad man feelings and duplicitous women. It’s not very romantic.
Carrie: Commenters on my review of RASL listed some feminist noir but I can’t vouch for HEAs.
The message of noir, by which I mean classic, hard core noir, is that people want to exist in a world where there is good and bad, but actually everyone is some of both and usually bad wins.
Elyse: A Dangerous Invitation plays with some noir themes but that’s the only one I can think of.
Amanda: At the very least, she wants a murder mystery with romance and a detective character.
Carrie: I’d try Fast Women by Jennifer Crusie then. Plus it has homages to The Maltese Falcon. A tough detective telling a tiny dog, “I won’t play the sap for you, sweetheart” is a scene not to be missed.
Sarah: I wonder if some of the darker contemporaries with morally ambiguous heroes might fit. Like the Professional series from Kresley Cole, or the Halle series.
Crap. The one with tattoos.
Shooting something. SCARS. Shooting Scars. Crap that’s book 2. I can’t remember 1.
Also maybe Anne Stuart.
Amanda: Black Ice by Anne Stuart could fit!
I don’t think I’d recommend The Professional ( A | BN | K | G | AB ) as there’s no mystery element. Just corn field fingerblasting.
Sarah: HAHAHAHAHA
Then never mind! The thing is, this is not my genre. cynicism, pessimism – not why I’m here, you know?
Carrie: Same in books, although I used to like a few of the movies for the rapid fire dialogue and the visuals
Amanda: Halle MIGHT fit. There may have been a detective element; I’ll have to double check.
Elyse: Amanda, I got to the cornfield scene and was like WTF am I reading? I thought it was a romantic suspense.
Amanda: SURPRISE!
Over the Line by Lisa Derochers ( A | BN | K | G | AB ) might fit as well.
Carrie: I’m with Elyse – we would need to know what parts of noir she likes. Detective? Banter? Morally murky characters? The hot blonde/helpful brunette? The visual style (lot’s of high contrasts and great clothes). Does she like the time period of the more classic noirs? Would she like stuff that Elyse likes like Gone Girl, where there’s a twist?
What do you think? Any romance you know of with various aspects of noir? Care to join in on our friendly debate?
The first Jennifer Crusie book mentioned is called “What The Lady Wants”, not What The Waldy Wants. It’s a fun book.
The Book Smugglers have a trilogy of “mini noirs” with a sweet love story in it. Feminist, diverse and HEA. There is some gore though. The author is Carlie St. George, and the short stories are, in order: The Case of the Little Bloody Slipper, The Price You Pay is Red, and The Long and Silent Ever After. You can read them all for free at The Book Smugglers. I think they call the genre “fairy tale noir” and there’s an urban fantasy element to it as well. I love that it starts with the cynical noir detective seeing a mysterious long-legged beauty and then it just takes all those tropes and turns them on their head.
! Thanks, Helen, for the clarification. I thought for a moment there was a Crusie I hadn’t read.
Ashley Weaver has written three mysteries set in 1930s Britain. The detective has a rocky marriage to a romantic but difficult playboy type. They’re not quite noir, but they’re quite fun.
Now I’m thinking of more . . . Mary Stewart’s Gothic romantic suspense is iconic. Airs Above the Ground, This Rough Magic, and The Moonspinners are all great romantic mysteries set in exotic locations during the 50s/60s.
Elizabeth Peters wrote lots of romantic mysteries that also usually have a lot of humor in them. Her Amelia Peabody series features a Victorian-era feminist archaelogist heroine married to an incredibly sexy husband, and they solve murders while conducting excavations in late 1800s Egypt. The earlier books in the series are better to read as stand-alones – the later ones suffer from way too many characters. The Curse of the Pharaohs is a good starting point.
Not noir, but for a great crime series with romance added, I’d recommend Julia Spencer-Fleming’s Rev. Clare Fergusson series. Completely different feel but Ruth Galloway series by Elly Griffiths has a spare, present-tense writing style and is police procedural with romantic elements. The Harry Hole series by Jo Nesbo is really intense and dark, and there are plotlines relating to the main character’s love life. And a second for Mary Stewart — try Nine Coaches Waiting.
I will always recommend Mary Stewart to anybody and everybody. But she didn’t write noir, and it’s not really Gothic either.
Same with Elizabeth Peters, although the Vicki Bliss series does have a to-die-for morally ambiguous hero. Then there’s her Barbara Michaels books which are more Gothic in nature.
More along the Raymond Chandler line with the hard boiled detective, but still not really noir, is Lindsay Davis’ Marcus Didio Falco series. There’s a romance across class boundaries that develops in the first few books.
I go on about these ones… but Ellis Peters’ “Brother Cadfael Chronicles” are the original (and still best) medieval murder mysteries. Every single one of the twenty or so books features a pair of star-crossed lovers. Quite often one of them will have been wrongly accused of murder. They’re not noir in the 1930s sense, but they can be pretty grim.
Ken Follett’s “The Pillars of the Earth” and “A Dangerous Fortune” both feature prominent love stories featuring some great heroes and heroines and a murder that affects the characters for years to come until it’s solved. TPE is 12th century, ADF is 19th century.
I seem to remember that Judith Merkle Riley’s “The Oracle Glass” and “The Serpent Garden”, romance novels set in 17th century France and 16th century England respectively, also featured murder mysteries and poison and plots and things.
And basically anything by Diana Norman, because I love her mix of romance and murder mystery.
Maybe Anne Perry’s Victorian mysteries? The two series (Detectives Monk and Pitt) drag on a bit once past book 6 or more, but the first books have really good mystery plots (amnesia, dark sides of Victorian London, but not too gratuitous violence or gore) and beginning romances for the detectives and crime-solving heroines.
Not a book recommendation, but a comment about noir films, which always worked much better in black and white than in color. So help me, practically every one I’ve seen has an ominous shot (scene, not gunshot) on a staircase with the shadow of the bannister on the wall. This includes, but is not limited to, Richard Widmark shoving the old lady in the wheelchair down the stairs.
Look for a staircase next time you watch a noir film. It’s almost always there. 🙂
Go back to the source–or one of them. The Thin Man by Dashiell Hammett is classic noir centering on a couple. If you’re into movies, the novel spawned an entire series, and while there are elements troubling to the 21st century mind, the relationship between Nick and Nora is cherce.
Pretty sure this doesn’t count, but the only “rocky” romance I could think of between the woman and the detective would be the Francesca Cahill Deadly series by Brenda Joyce. It’s been a while since I’ve read them, but I don’t believe they were that dark but they did lean more heavily towards the crimes than a standard historical romance.
Yeah the more I think about it, probably not, but unfortunately I’ve been sticking to the romance genre for a long time…should probably start to branch out again.
I got really curious about this! I also often read non-romance books and wish they were just a smidge more romancey. I looked up Mortal Sins by Penelope Williamson on Goodreads and found Scoop by Kit Frazier, which sounded like it might be good (although not noir).
These are also not noir, but in terms of mysteries that have a little romance and not a ton of gore in them, maybe the Mary Russell series by Laurie R. King (Sherlock Holmes with a female partner in the 1920s, lots of homages to Holmes stories, very well written and well researched, but very light on romance) and the Phryne Fisher series by Kerry Greenwood (also not really romance, but casual sex and competence porn. Also outfits and awesome ladies).
I feel bad reccing books I’ve never read, but I have it on very good authority from a friend that the Peter Wimsey mysteries by Dorothy L. Sayers include an amazing love story (her favorite fictional love story!). Peter is a British gentleman/detective, so it’s basically not noir at all, but there is a detective falling in love, at least. And I think they meet in a rather noir-like fashion: in the book Strong Poison, Harriet is on trial for murder. ‘Nuff said.
Ngaio Marsh’s Roderick Alleyn mysteries are not strictly noir but are definitely of the time period. Noir mysteries are an American invention, and the Marsh series are British police procedurals. Most of them do feature moody settings and a romance within the cast of characters. More appealing though is the romance between Roderick Alleyn and artist Agatha Troy. This character arc is present in a number of the novels, starting in 1934’s Artists in Crime. Others I remember are Death in a White Tie, Final Curtain and A Clutch of Constables.
Marsh, like many of the writers of the era is pretty blasé about the prejudices of her time period. Hence stereotypes and casual references to certain groups and classes of people may be prohibitively offensive to some readers. I honestly think she tried to tackle some of these issues over the years, but the vocabulary and concepts of the time made her attempts seem pretty awkward.
Still, if you can get past this problem, the mysteries are good and the characterization of the principals is nuanced and fascinating.
There’s a trilogy by Vicky Pettersson set in modern day Las Vegas with a rockabilly heroine and a ghost detective from the 50s. It has Vegas gangsters, multiple mysteries,is light on gore, and there’s no HEA until the trilogy conclusion. It might not be true noir, but there’s elements. I enjoyed the set. It starts with a book called the Taken. I picked up the trilogy at Ripped Bodice, where it was part of a lovely display until I snapped it up 🙂
@Helen: Fixed! Thank you!
I want to second Leanne H., I think that Harriet Vane can be a bit noir-ish, especially in Strong Poison, and if you read a few of the Peter Wimsey books he IS pretty morally conflicted, but mostly in a way that has to do with his trauma from the wars and his immense guilt about sending anyone to their deaths. Not really the same, because as yall said a book can’t TRULY be noir and romance, but the Lord Peter books are great, and Harriet Vane has that difficult heroine thing going on.
God I love these books.
Boy, romance in noir fiction, real noir, almost always ends in heartbreak or death with regrets. I agree with suggestions for Chandler and Hammett, but Carrie’s definition is spot on. Moral ambiguity carries the day in nearly every case, with a heaping side of violence.
Walter Mosley’s DEVIL IN A BLUE DRESS, book and movie, is a good example, just not romantic. Ditto LA CONFIDENTIAL. Maybe Michael Connelly’s Harry Bosch series, because Harry at least tries to have a relationship. Anything by George Pelecanos.
I’ll be interested to hear what the OP means by noir and will keep checking my shelves.
I did a paper once comparing Gothic Romance to Noir and argued that Gothic is female noir and Noir is male gothics. That is, Gothic is “Someone is trying to kill me and I think it’s my husband,” and Noir is “Somebody’s trying to kill me and I think it’s that hot dame.” They’re both based in deep suspicion of the opposite sex, so they both tend to be heteronormative, and the subtext struggle is “Can I trust this person I want?”
Yeah, it’s a good thing I got out of academe.
I’ll second @Allicat’s rec of the Celestial Blues trilogy. It was the first thing to pop into my head when I saw the topic. It has a great noir feel to it, but it’s also a solid urban fantasy. If you don’t like your genres mixed, this one won’t work.
I recommend the book Laura, by Vera Caspary. The movie is a classic, and it is often categorized as noir even though it doesn’t exactly fit the elements. I don’t want to give details that would spoil the mystery, but it’s one of my favorite books.
For a murder mystery with a detective and a romance, try Georgette Heyer’s BEHOLD, HERE’S POISON. It’s a contemporary mystery from the 1930s. The detective isn’t part of the romance, but the hero takes a big role in solving the mystery. I should probably stop now b/c spoilers.
Maybe the OP means “hard-boiled” as opposed to “cozy” mysteries? “Hard boiled” includes noir (and police procedurals), but is a slightly broader genre, generally involving professional detectives and a certain amount of grittiness. “Cozy” means amateur detectives, and anything with knitting, tea shops, peach pie recipes or similar. (Basically, endless Miss Marple rip-offs. Miss Marple is awesome. Her heirs, not so much.)
I’d say one of the best introductions to noir (and incidentally one with a hinted romance) is the ballet “Girl Hunt” in the movie “The Bandwagon” with Fred Astaire and Cyd Charisse. It’s a loving parody (full 12 minutes available on Vimeo.)
If you’re interested in feminist noir (not necessarily romance), there’s an anthology “Women Crime Writers of the 1940s and 1950s” edited by Sarah Weinman, that contains 8 noir novels by women. (See the website womencrime.loa.org) Note that these are NOT romances in any sense of the word, but they do feature detective novels with female characters.
Finally, I feel a bit awkward touting my own books, but my four book series starting with Death of a Nationalist and set in Spain between 1939-45 started out as a noir homage (although it very quickly became something else). It does feature an anti-hero detective though, and there’s a romantic relationship spread over the four books.
If you are willing to try gay romances Josh Lanyon wrote several. I can recommend “The Ghost Wore Yellow Socks.”
From the summary “There’s a dead body in Perry Foster’s bathtub. A dead body in a very ugly sportscoat and matching socks. How did a strange dead man get in a locked flat at the isolated Alton Estate. Perry flees downstairs to get help and runs into “tall, dark and hostile” former navy SEAL Nick Reno. They return, but by then the body has disappeared.”
I feel like this may be way off, but since there seems to be a lot of leeway in how to interpret what elements this person is actually looking for, I feel compelled to throw this out there: “The Haunting of Maddy Clare” by Simone St. James. This is technically a ghost story and not a noir, but it has a mystery element and is also a romance – in fact there are a couple of romantic storylines – and I thought it was very good. If you like the sound of this one, the author has several more in the same vein.
Maybe Lauren Henderson’s Sam Jones series?
One of the best examples I can think of, and a book I highly recommend, is Harper Allen’s THE MAN THAT GOT AWAY. A Harlequin Intrigue published in 1993, it’s a romantic mystery set in the 1930s. The opening scene is a straight noir homage, complete with private eye receiving a visit from a mysterious blonde, and Allen has the tone down pat. (Seriously, just read the sample on Amazon or any other store and I’m pretty sure it’s exactly what you’re looking for.) But it’s also a great book all around. Great characters. Great romance. Great mystery.
https://www.fictiondb.com/author/harper-allen~the-man-that-got-away~42771~b.htm
https://www.amazon.com/Man-That-Got-Away-Intrigue-ebook/dp/B0056HF2BY
(Er, that should be “published in 1998.” I don’t know what happened there.)
You might enjoy “A Girl Like You.” It’s written in third person, mostly from the perspective of a young working woman in Depression Era U.S. (New York I think?) who gets involved with a detective to help solve a case involving missing women. It’s not the BEST written book I’ve ever read, but there’s lots of great historical detail, gritty crime, and romantic tension between the young woman and the detective. Even when there were things about the writing style that bugged me (and I’m picky), I seriously could not put it down.
https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Like-You-Henrietta-Inspector/dp/1631520164
I have a suggestion, although this book is very old. The classic noir film “Laura” starring Gene Tierney and Dana Andrews was originally a book by Vera Caspary published in 1943. It’s a good book that follows a murder mystery although is more a romantic suspense, but the film is a famous example of the film noir genre and one of my personal favorites. It also features a HEA so this might be just what you are looking for!
I love this book, and the film, for several reasons:
It’s a classic, but the heroine is modern for the period, she has a very successful career and is not only sexually experienced but single as well. The book is narrated by several characters, including Laura herself as the murder investigation progresses. Here’s the wikipedia link, to give you more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_(novel)
I have loved this story for a long time, I hope someone else enjoys this too!
@RebeccaA I translated that book for a German publisher and absolutely loved it. Apparently Lanyon is writing a sequel!
I’d go with The Likeness by Tana French. It’s a great mystery with plenty of noir, but in the end, when you’re close to giving up hope, it’s a love story with a happy ending. Curiously enough, I got an idea about 10 days ago to write a book that will also fill the bill. I’ll check back in about 18 months to suggest it!
I thought of two series that I think of as primarily mysteries, although the hero’s romantic lives play a part in both and there are twists with regard to the love interests in both series. Both are set in Britain. The first is the Inspector Lynley series, by Elizabeth George. I started reading these in the 1990s and I think that there are over 15 books now. I would describe them as contemporary, although probably if you read the early books (pre-cell phone and computer), some aspects of the mystery may seem dated. The books are the basis for the Lynley mysteries (a BBC series), but there were some significant changes made in the adaptation. The books get longer and more complex over the years.
The second is the Sebastien St. Cyr books by C.S. Harris. These are set in Britain during the Napoleonic War. They are dark and I find the characters compelling. There is an overarching mystery that begins in the first book and is not solved yet. I’m anxiously awaiting the next installment, which will be released next month.
Dorothy Dunnett wrote two historical series, the Lymond Chronicles and The House of Niccolo. The Lymond Chronicles are set in the 16th century and the House of Niccolo in the 15th. These are very dense historical books, with all kinds of plot twists and adventures. Each hero is complex and has his share of enemies — overt and covert. I would suggest starting with the Lymond chronicles, because I think that those were written first.
Sorry to butt in, but I disagree strongly with Anne that anyone looking for a good romance should read Elizabeth George’s Inspector Lynley’s books. I don’t know the other two authors from personal experience, but I gave up on George for her pig-headed determination to avoid a HEA at all costs.
In addition to echoing the recommendations of The Thin Man and the Phryne Fisher series, I will add that the Dorothy L. Sayers novels are all amazing, and that the “Harriet trilogy” beginning with Strong Poison is MY favorite fictional romance, too. Not exactly noir, but constantly preoccupied with questions of morality, and brilliantly written. Shoutout to the awesome lesbian couple in Strong Poison, too.
Don Juan in Hankey, PA (Gale Martin) is a book I read for the opera-company setting, and it turned out to be a romance with elements of camp noir. It’s rather odd, and I thought the portrayals of its heroine could be sexist. But it might fit the bill?
In another series from the classic noir era, Rex Stout’s Some Buried Caesar might be a good entry point for the long-running Nero Wolfe novels. The narrator, Archie Goodwin, is a handsome, smart-talking guy who fancies himself as a devil-may-care antihero, but he’s kind of a sweetheart, really. Some Buried Caesar introduces the whip-smart Lily Rowan, who sees Archie, decides she wants him, and… I don’t want to give too much away, but the banter is priceless.
Oh, oh, and! Alan Furst writes GORGEOUS, addictive spy novels set in 1930s Europe. There’s always a romance, and the characters are usually in their 30s or 40s, which I really like. The sex is hot, and the lasting romances are always based on intellectual compatibility and mutual respect, which is really important to me. I just finished Mission to Paris and I can’t get its characters out of my head.
@Steffi That is wonderful. Both the translation and the sequel.
If F/F paranormal is ok, Iron & Velvet features a hard-boiled, drinking, my woman done me wrong detective – who is a woman. 🙂 Wasn’t my favorite, but a lot of people I know enjoyed it.
OK – so we’re talking “noir” here – that means blood, and lots of it. Bodies, and masses of them. All in a readable context. Plus, some romance. And *no one* has mentioned “Agnes and the Hitman” by Jennifer Crusie? C’mon, peeps. It’s the blackest of black noir. With love, laughs, and recipes.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/384457.Agnes_and_the_Hitman?from_search=true
I am reading these comments while bouncing on my seat anticipating getting my hands and eyes on many/most of the books recommended.