With the news that Borders filed for bankruptcy, I started thinking about the Borders that I went to when I was younger, back when a giant huge bookstore was a luxury I’d never experienced. There were fireplaces! And big huge chairs! And more books than I’d ever seen in my life, and the employees were friendly as opposed to condescending like the people in the local bookstore near my house who never had any good chapter books for kids.
Colleen Lindsay was saying that if the local Borders near her brother’s home closes, there won’t be a bookstore for 35 miles. As part of their bankruptcy, Borders will likely close 200 stores, which means a lot of people will lose their bookstore.
UPDATE: This is a link to a PDF of all the Borders stores scheduled to close.
Meanwhile, last Sunday, my husband wanted to take our younger son to the library, only to find that due to budget cuts it was closed – despite the website listing it as open that day. So, since my younger son is 3 and he wanted BOOKS PLEASE DADDY, they went to Barnes and Noble. It was a horrible shopping trip because the books were a marginal focus, since the minute you step in the door it was TOYS TOYS TOYS. Hubby said he wouldn’t take the kids back there again because it was so unpleasant, and books were not the focus. Toys and games and gifts were.
The floorplan of big bookstores is changing to include things other than books. Yesterday, at Tools of Change (larger entry about the conference coming, yes, with drinking game since I’m sure many people need it), the Indie bookseller panel was asked about what will happen when Borders goes bankrupt or closes some if not all of their stores.
Their answer was, it will leave a hole, and a smart bookseller can help fill it, through doing what those indie booksellers already do: building communities locally and online, and offering something unique that’s more than just selling books. Now, these indies, Greenlight Books and WORDBrooklyn, are among my favorites because they are familiar and curious about romance fiction (as opposed to some Indie folks who look at the genre and at romance readers as if we carry some papercut-inducing disease, as I’ve heard from some readers).
But there is room for the hole left by Borders to be filled, as they put it.
So let me ask you, as a reader: where is your nearest bookstore? Do you shop there? Do you have a Borders near you, and do you shop there? If your store closes, does it affect you? And what could a physical bookstore do to lure you as a customer now?
And to Borders employees who face job loss: I’m so sorry this is happening.
Ugh. The small Borders that is the only bookstore for the town I mentioned above is on the list. Anyone wanting a book will have to go to Target, Walmart, Amazon, or endure horrendous traffic. Sad.
Ugh. My local Borders is about 5 minutes from my house and is one of the stores listed as to be closed.
Apart from Borders, locally, we have one good second hand bookstore (with some new books as well and a great romance section) and three indie bookstores who treat romance readers (and authors) as if we have the plague.
I’ll miss the convenience of my local Borders but not the unhelpful staff.
Ffffuuuuu the borders store that I’m within walking distance of is closing. So sad. It’s definitely going to decrease the times I go shopping for books, since I’ll have to drive out of my way to one.
It was also the store with the best selection—the rest in the neighborhood are sadly lacking in YA books, my primary form of sustenance.
This is really sad news.
Borders has always been so awesome to me through my career. This is like the serious illness of a dear friend. Our local Borders closed years ago, leaving us with a choice of Barnes and Noble or the grocery store. There are a few resale bookstores, but as an author I try to buy other authors’ works new, so they see the pocket change.
oh, crap. my Borders is on the closing list. that is the closest large bookstore to me, and i go there every friday. most of the time i buy a book, using that week’s coupon and the gift cards i get from my credit card rewards program – which has been most of my new book buying budget for years. it closing definitely affects me. 🙁 [also, the 2-3 other nearest full size Borders 15-20 miles away are being closed.]
other options: every friday i also hit the large used bookstore one way down the street from Borders, and there’s an indie bookstore the other way down the street – but they’re one of those stores that seems to think romance books carry disease. a little farther away there’s a mall Borders Express that isn’t on the closing list, but it doesn’t offer the convenience that the big store did, like being able to check in advance if they have the book i want in stock before i drive over there, and it’s a separate trip instead of next to someplace i was already going.
in the end, i suspect amazon wins.
I am smack-dab in between two Borders in the Northern Virginia DC Metro area, both about 10 minutes away. Neither is on the closing list, which I am very grateful for as I have friends who work there. There’s also a B&N about 10 minutes away. I only ever go there to get birthday presents for my daughter’s friends. If I want to be surrounded by books, I go to our AMAZING libraries here in Fairfax County. If I want to buy, I go 45 minutes out to McKay’s, a Used CD and Book Store and drop a hundred bucks for thirty to forty books. Or, if I am desperate, I scope buy.com, Amazon, eBay, etc.
I am a single parent. I just do not have the luxury of paying full price for a book. I am also a preschool teacher and use the library like an addict to keep my classroom in books. In all honesty, I really do find bookstores quite outdated…does anyone really need to go there anymore?
My closest book store (less than 5 miles) is a BAM which flat out sucks. The most positive thing I can about it is that is *sometimes* has a magazine I’m looking for.
The BEST book store is about 10 miles and is a local independent Katy Budget Books and they are made of awesome and win. They also love and respect their romance readers because they know we’re the ones keeping them in the black.
I live in a suburb of Houston (25 miles to the west), I’ve lived here 6 years and stepped foot in a Borders once. Over a 45 minute drive and it was ok – but not worth a special trip, I just happened to be in the area.
I only shop at B&N when I need a magazine. And most of the time I decide I can live without it, there is no B&N within a convenient distance.
There is also another awesome local Independent (in Houston) named Murder by the Book – they are a 45 minute drive that is worth a special trip.
You want me in your store? Don’t shove romance off in a poorly lit corner. Have an awesome newstand. Have both new & used books. And author signings.
News like this is just depressing. Our area is one of the lucky ones. Libraries are still open, Barnes and Noble up the street is well stocked with books (only a couple racks of games stuck around after the holidays). None of the three Borders I know about are on the closure list.
I shop at Borders only rarely – it’s farther than B&N and doesn’t have the same selection. And the second biggest Powell’s location is a couple of blocks from my nearet Borders. My mom, across town, has a Borders as her closest bookstore and she loves it.
Sending good wishes for everyone else to have and keep thier booksellers and libraries!
I guess I am in the lucky group as well. There is a library up the road rom me that I can walk to, well at least when the weather is nice and the other direction even closer is a Hastings. Hastings has a lot of other things but at least some books. Sadly the budget cuts have killed the library hours often, so I have to plan around that. Mostly I have been using Amazon.com for my books. Most of the little local bookstores are way out of the way and often have books in a general direction and usually not romance.
I have a Borders not even five minutes from me. And Hopefully, it’s not one of the one’s being shut down. If not, I gotta take a 20 minute drive over to Barnes & Noble, which I personally don’t like because they usually don’t have what I’m looking for. (Although, I will admit B&N has a slighty better Art section.)
Luckily, my local library is one of the better libraries here, so there’s not chance it’s closing, given that they just finished putting in a garden. Worse case, I’ll just goe there and get my literary fix.
As for a store getting me in? Off the top of my head, Book Signings, definitely, and a better ‘Foreign’ media section. Maybe even, some little meet and greet and talk about a particular book/genre, etc. I think the greatest time I’ve had at a book store was the Deathly Hollows release. (So, maybe if they made every book release like Harry Potter? I dunno, it sounds like a fun idea.)
I am blessed to live in Connecticut where we have lots and lots of Borders and Barnes and Nobles. Seriously Borders is closing six stores in CT, and neither of them are the two I go to.
The Barnes and Noble closest to me is a long time favorite,(I went there my entire childhood; I joke about it being a second home.) but recently they have been cutting back on inventory, stocking less books on the shelves, and cutting back on New Releases. I went to buy Unveiled for the SBs website book club and BN did not have it. I went to Borders and bought it there.
Borders also tends to have more books that were released a few years ago. Of the recently re-released Heyers, for example, Borders tends to have more in stock.
Finally @ Corrinne; you certainly are lucky; you live in one of the most affluent counties in America. I know tons of people who live there! Yeah I bet they have wonder AMAZING libraries there (My own library is okay, but it faces Major budget cuts like every other library in existence.) If you had bothered to read the comments you would know thats hundreds of people in remote areas of the country don’t have access to AMAZING Libraries, rely on the big chain bookstores to find books rather than shop at Target/Walmart or shop on-line. (Lots of people like buying books in person for the same reason you like going to the library.) Try to moving to remote area and see if you don’t buy books. Not to mention if you lived in cheaper area of the country; you might be able to afford a few books.
I am so sorry if this is too snarky; but I am deeply offended by your comments that bookstores are obsolete, and the arrogance that comes from some who lives in one of the wealthiest places in country.
I live in Denver where there are a lot of B&N and Borders stores. My husband and I make a habit out of getting coffee at the bookstore and wandering through the racks while sipping. I feel awful that I might be somewhat responsible for the demise of Borders because I use it only for browsing. I prefer e-books or getting a cheaper price from Amazon. Hubby and I have been speculating for a few years now that bookstores may become a relic of the past.
As someone who works in a bookshop, I think it’s awful when one, never mind 200, closes. It hits incredibly close to home. Almost a year ago, almost out of nowhere, I came home from work one day to turn on the news and find I had lost my job because the company I worked for had gone into recievership. It was utterly horrible. I LOVE working in a bookshop. LOVE it. My story however has a nice ending. After several months, a new company bought some of the shops in our chain and most of us got our jobs back and our bookshop was brought back to life. So to all those people who have lost their job and bookshop in their local area, I hope this story, though on a much smaller scale, gives you some hope.
My Borders closed two months ago. And my B&N isn’t nearly as romance genre friendly as the Borders was. No HQ category books at all.
But… and here is the crazy thing… I haven’t been to a bookstore since I bought my Kindle.
I can’t help but feel a little guilty becauase I know I’m probaby the reason I’m putting someone out of a job.
But the convenience of having a book store in my purse… you just can’t compare to that.
On the flipside I’m buying more books than ever. So hopefully writers out there are prospering.
Bookstores are not the only thing becoming obsolete.
Libraries are equally endanger. Many towns looking for budget cuts, and taking it out on libraries. Many libraries are cutting books and hours, like SB Sarah mentioned.
Then there are political people in this country who want to cut out all government institutions. They would like to get rid of not only libraries but public schools!
This movement is both anti government and anti intellectual.
For those of you who love your libraries, talk to your local politicians, and representatives make sure they know how you feel.
My local Borders is one of the ones closing, but I hardly ever go there. My local B&N is only about five minutes away, and that’s where I’ve got my membership. I usually go there for anything that isn’t discounted above 10% at B&N.com. There are two formerly-local-now-owned-by-Books-a-Million stores in the neighborhood of fifteen minutes away, and there’s another B&N near the Borders, around twenty-five minutes away. So I’m saddened in principle by a bookstore closing, but this one won’t really affect me.
My closest bookstore is actually an indie store. I do not shop there because they do not stock romance, they sneer at me when I ask for it and they treat some customers better than others. Whenever I hear someone bemoaning how big business is eating the indie bookstores, all I can think is how much better the service is at my local big business than it is at my indie. (I’m sure there are many excellent indie stores out there…I’ve just never encountered one personally.)
Actually, I order most of my books online these days. *shrug*
Nearest ‘bookstore’ is a Hastings 20 miles up the road but I never go there, because their selection and prices suck and their section on religion is bigger than all other sections combined.
The ‘nearest’ bookstore I do go to once a month (when I’m in town for a meeting) is a Borders 100 miles from my house in Brentwood, TN, and which doesn’t seem to be on the chopping block right now, I’m glad to say. I’ve gone to the one in Franklin, TN that is closing and am surprised to hear it’s not doing well enough. Every time I’ve been in there, it was packed with shoppers actually buying things.
There are Barnes and Noble stores minimally closer, but I absolutely detest B&N after several outrageous shopping experiences with incompetent and/or rude staff and a complete disaster of an online order which required me to make a 170 miles roundtrip to return books that they couldn’t cancel (even though they didn’t ship the books for 2 months after I ordered them). I hate that Borders is in trouble, because I don’t know where I’ll go if they don’t make it.
I live about ten blocks from a Barnes & Noble…and I almost never shop there. I buy my new books from Amazon, because the electronic ones appear instantly on my Kindle and the paper ones land on my doorstep two days later. There’s no going to the bookstore and being disappointed if they’ve sold out of or aren’t stocking a new release, and I can shop when it’s convenient for me and not have to deal with traffic and parking around the mall. And buying online is just much more practical if what you’re shopping for is at all obscure—and here “obscure” can mean just “backlist titles by that moderately popular author I just discovered,” or “books for a military history geek more interested in the Napoleonic Wars than the Civil War or WWII.”
The bookstores I actually enjoy shopping in are UBSs, whether it’s the little one two blocks from my office or going to Powell’s whenever I happen to be in Portland. It’s the treasure hunt aspect. And my love of Old Book Smell, though browsing an academic library’s stacks is the best way to get a hit of that.
Really, I’m an online shopper by preference for almost everything. I even buy GROCERIES online. Shoes, jeans, and bras I prefer to try on first…but even then, once I get a style I like and know fits, I’ll order more of it online. It’s not that I don’t like to shop, but I’m busy, and I love the convenience of having everything I want delivered to my door.
I live in San Jose CA and I am uber-blessed with the bookstore bounty all around. There is a Borders close to my office, but I just don’t shop there so it won’t impact me. Within, say, a 20 mile radius?, I’ve got: Keplar’s in Menlo Park, Books Inc and Bookbuyers (the UBS version of Books Inc with – I kid you not – at least 8 shelves of La Nora, not counting the Robb books) in Mountain View, Leigh’s Favorite Books in Sunnyvale (UBS), Recycle 1 and 2 in downtown SJ and Campbell (UBS) and a couple of B&N.
When I want major backlist, I hit Amazon or BookDepository (OMG FREE SHIPPING from the UK). Otherwise, I love the fact that I’ve got all these local bookstores available and don’t really need Borders.
(I do feel you on the indie bookseller snark for romance, though. Leigh’s is mostly women-staffed and I get NO snark for the romance buying, whee! OH! and they have online search and they’ll ship! http://www.leighsfavoritebooks.com)
I actually live near the three Border’s in Ann Arbor (one of which is slated for closure), but I miss the original Border’s, like everyone else in the area. It hasn’t been the same since they sold the company to K-Mart – more junk, less inventory, fewer experienced employees. The “mother store” downtown is still good, but the branches are virtually indistinguishable from B&N.
It’s sad – especially for the people around here that work there (and in the corporate hq) – but no one here is surprised.
An update on Borders closings:
The liquidation business handling the closings has released a list of which stores will close. From the looks of it, Connecticut will lose 2/3rds of its Borders locations. The nearest Massachusetts store will close too.
And get this: Borders has already removed these locations from its website.
Ever since it reduced its inventory, I’ve turned to other stores to find much of what I wanted for my library, but to see the tangible absence of my local store saddens me nonetheless.
I am glad the Borders @ the mall near us isn’t one of the closing ones, even though I hardly shop there—just like to browse (mostly the gift & tchotchkes others seem to find so repellent) and drink coffee while waiting for time to head over to the movie theater.
Borders has been in trouble for so long—I think they were just too slow to realize they had to change with the times and get into the ebook biz. (Hey, remember a little chain called Tower Records? Hold on, I have to download the song I just heard on the radio, let me switch over to iTunes for a sec…Ok, I’m back.) It’s nice that they sell stationery and other papergoods—but seriously, when was the last time you needed some stationery? Their tiny gifts/paper department & half-hearted movie/music selection obviously wasn’t enough to offset the loss of book sales to (damn them) Amazon.
I was devoted to my public library which is a block from my house. Then I was gifted a Nook for Christmas. Due to a family emergency, I had to travel and took the Nook along causing an immediate and unnerving addiction. It’s little. It slips in my purse. I can take an 800 page backbreaker—many of them in fact—with me no matter where I go. If I finish something at three in the morning and MUST read the next in the series I can have instant gratification with a prompt download. I am addicted I tell you. Who needs a bookstore of bricks and mortar? I can download mine wherever, whenever. Joy to the world.
Chicago still has a pretty vibrant bookstore presence – although we’ve lost a lot of good indie bookstores in the past 10 – 15 years, and now several Border’s.
I work across the street from the public library in one direction and BN in the other. I use both of them regularly, although I’m trying to use the library more and cut down on the impulse “must have something to read on the el ride home and then give away later” book purchases. I live two blocks from a used bookstore which I rarely go to. There’s a good indie bookstore, Women and Children First, a few miles from me that I go to when I need a reliable recommendation, especially for buying book presents for children.
I grew up in Ann Arbor and I have many fond memories of spending entire afternoons browsing in the original Border’s with my friends. I have to say I don’t really browse bookstores for pleasure anymore – I browse on Amazon or read blogs for recommendations. And I buy from Amazon a lot too. I feel the same sense of vague, shared guilt about the Border’s closings that I felt when one of my favorite indie bookstores closed a few years ago. I love these stores, they’re a part of my history, but I don’t use them much these days.
I always found Borders to be pricey. We used to use Barnes and Noble, but now it is all Amazon or my library.
Our favorite places in NY/NJ in re: to bookstores where you can just browse and buy to high heaven is the Montclair Book Center in Montclair NJ. In NYC it is the motherland, The Strand.
I was just informed of a local bookseller out by here we live in Western NJ and I look forward to checking them out.
While I love my new Kindle, holding a book is a thrill I will never lose and the smell of books in both of those places is just choice.
Katie D. I want to shop in your store!!
Reading through everyone’s comments I do have a question. Why are people who own/work in indy stores often so off putting?
I’ve been in shops where they’ve made me feel like I’m an intruder rather than a valued source of income. Isn’t this a little counterintuitive? Certainly it’s been off set by experiences like the used book store owner who overheard me waxing nostalgic about “Mrs. Mike” to my bff -probably offshooting from something about her being Canadian and her daughter being about the age I was when I read it- and dug out TWO copies to choose from. But he’s the exception. By and large most of my experiences in non-used independent bookstores has been unremarkable. Aren’t these the people who should be soliciting my good opinion the most, regardless of their personal opinion of my reading material?
I live dangerously close to a Hastings and actually had to talk myself out of going today so I can save it for my long weekend in a few days. Beyond that I have to travel almost an hour to B&N and BAM both of which are attached to malls. Unless I get to them early on weekdays (which is impossible) they are crowed with spillover mall crowds and packs of roving teenagers. Teenagers who sit on the floor in the middle of the aisles and then go over to the romance sections and make derogatory comments about the books and those who read them. In others words, browsing the bookstore is not the peaceful fun thing it used to be. I don’t have an ereader yet, but I just downloaded the Kindle APP to my computer to see if I can take to ebooks and I think I can.
Sad day. It’s hard for me to feel sorry for a megacorporation, and of course I support indie bookstores, but in so many cases, Borders is the only available bookstore. I recently moved to a much larger city, so my choices have increased exponentially, but in my old town, Borders was pretty much my only choice for new books. There were a few used bookstores, including an awesome one two blocks from my apartment, but there were no other new bookstores. I’m sad to know that this will make it so much more difficult for so many people to find great books. 🙁
42 miles away…nearest bookstore. Unless you count the community college bookstore that’s open three afternoons a week and sells only textbooks and $3 highlighter pens.
Sigh.
I use Borders for the bulk of my new “book” buying. I have a kindle but sometimes you just want to have the book in your hand. And other times I figure if the publisher is going set the electronic price so high then there had better be some paper involved that I can call my own.
I looked at the list and the three Border’s locations closest to me are all on the closing list. Not to mention the one that I sometimes stop at on the way home from work – on the list -or the two closest to my elderly parents home that I take them out to on a regular basis – on the list.
I used to use the library quite often but I have a very long commute these days and with budget cuts (read less hours open) in the city the only day I can actually get to an open branch is Saturday.
Border’s tends to be my go to spot when traveling for work and don’t have enough time to sight-see but do need to kill some time – always comfortable, familiar and you never know what treasures you might find while browsing.
I’ve got a Best Bargain Books near me, which is a warehouse-type deal with whatever they’ve got on the shelves, which are crammed full of fairly random things. I try to go there only a few times a year, because even though it’s heavily discounted, I always leave with a stack!
The bookstore I shop at most frequently is a little hole in the wall in Penn Station. They always have plenty of the bestsellers, a good selection of classics, children’s, and popular authors in romance, scifi/fantasy, and so on. Both Penn Books and Best Bargain Books have other stuff, but what they mostly have is books. Not ambiance, or toys—books.
Oddly enough, the Borders that are closest to me don’t appear to be closing.
Okay, rant time. I worked at Borders for two years. Last January, I was placed on something called “contingency employment,” because I went back to school and didn’t have open availability 4 days a week. “Contingency employment” meant that while I would no longer be working any hours, I was still technically employed with them and so didn’t qualify for any unemployment benefits. Anyway, at first it was my dream job. I love books and reading, and I love helping people find what they are looking for. However, after they realized how much trouble they were in, changes were made. Suddenly, we were expected to sell specific titles-to every single customer. It was a rotating selection of 2-3 books that no one had ever heard of. For example, someone would come in asking for romance recommendations, and if I didn’t enthusiastically endorse whatever title they had chosen for the week I was subject to disciplinary action. It sucked hard. Plus, when I started all of the employees loved books and reading. When I left, I was one of two employees who read for pleasure. Seeing that store change broke my heart. I feel terrible for the employees, but the big corporation can suck it, as far as I’m concerned. They are my closest bookstore, and I still shop there sometimes, but I would love to have an independent bookstore with friendly and knowledgable employees near me! It is hard to find a good one.
Looking at the list, it appears that EVERY Borders in the metro Orlando area is closing. Good thing I burned through that gift card last month.
I’ll miss my local Borders. Thankfully, there’s a used book store within three miles of my house that has the most rocking romance section known to man, along with two awesome ladies who know and respect the genre. *swoon*
As to what I’d love to see in a bookstore. Knowledgeable staff(see above paragraph), a great selection without the clutter of toys and other junk, and competitive pricing. Honestly, I don’t see the point in paying for a “discount card” at BN or BAM when I already get a discount (& free shipping) through amazon.
@Ashley: Oh yes, The Make Books. My store went on a quiet disobdience campaign to ignore them. They tried EVERYTHING to get us all to hawk them to everyone – bribes, threats, contests- and we all listened politely and did nothing. I went on a rampage on Twitter to… I can’t remember if it Sarah or Candy – about what bullshit it all was. Since it was all of us, they couldn’t do anything.
At the time I worked at the public defenders office, and all the clients my unit handled were sex offenders. Borders during the Make Book Era was far far FAR more stressful than that job ever was.
Darn, my Boarders is closing. But I am lucky that I have a Half-Price and B&N near. But my FAV book store is Books & Co. I get warm tingles going into that store- 2 stories, every section seems large, teacher ed books, I can find things, staff is very friendly and knowledgable despite size, I feel like Scarlet walking down the marble stairs. And they just opened a small privately owned used store near my parents.
ah, make books. I remember that era. The only book that wasn’t terminally depressing was The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society.
Then there was the illusion that, if we only called all our customers by name (asking for it if they paid in cash), we’d build loyalty and people would shop at Borders more.
Only some of the misguided steps upper management took to pass the buck and ignore the fact that half the time our computer systems are down or that our inventory system reflects only a fantasy.
I’m lousy at toeing company lines. I won’t push something that I don’t believe in. I’m sure my general numbers stink – I don’t know, I don’t pay attention to that sheet on the bulletin board – but I know books, and I know a lot of our customers and what they like. I’m still employed. Of course, who knows how long that’ll last.
I am relieved that the Davis Borders will remain (for now?), but the Borders near my hometown is going. DAMMIT. There were already no bookstores in that town anyway. I guess they’re closing that one because there’s a B&N across the freeway or something.
Ugh. Yeah, Amazon can get me whatever book I want, but I can’t really go flip through the book ahead of time so well to determine if I want to get it or not. Last weekend I was in Borders for hours leafing through one research book, determined that I already had books that covered this material, and then got a different book on the topic instead. I could do that BECAUSE I could look at them in person beforehand. If I’d just ordered what I came in for off Amazon, I would have been disappointed in what I got and not had the experience of being able to casually leaf through other books in the store.
I wonder if the list is comprehensive? There are no Houston stores listed. I’m inside the city limits – west side – and there’s a Borders 5 minutes from my house. It’s not as well stocked as the B&N 10 minutes away, but for some reason every B&N in Houston is staffed by hipster douchebags and I just can’t stand it.
I do love Murder by the Book – they have great author signings – and I frequent Half Price Books as well. Truth is, though, I try not to shop in brick and mortar bookstores because I get in trouble and spend way too much money.
I do feel for all the folks who will lose their jobs because of this.
Okay, off-topic, but I feel it is necessary: People miss BN’s comfy chairs, but I gotta warn you – DO NOT sit in the comfy chairs at bookstores or the library! I worked at a BN where we vacuumed the comfy chairs five days a week and they were still disgusting. Just because you can’t see the stains or dust or dried skin or other yuck doesn’t mean it isn’t there. When we got rid of ours, they were up for grabs for employees and NO ONE put their name in the hat. We never mentioned it when people complained, but man, they should have been thanking us. Wooden chairs aren’t comfy, but – faced with the choice – I will always choose them over public comfy chairs.