Isn’t it enough that you people set out to destroy her career and almost caused her death?
In case you don’t know, which I know for a fact you have been told, Cassie Edwards suffered a massive stroke due to the stress you idiots put on her.
I hope you can live with yourselves knowing what you did almost cost this woman her life. You have deprived her grandchildren of their grandmother. You have caused a lot of innocent people much heartache by your actions.
Everyone is blaming you and your cronies for what happened. Not just her fans, fan club members, etc. I’m talking publishers, authors, editors, and more. I hope almost killing someone was worth the 15 minutes of fame.
If you have any reason to think this is a lie, contact Carol Stacy at Romantic Times and I’m sure she’ll verify the information for you.
A lot of Cassie’s fans plan on being at the RT convention in Orlando just so they can attend your blogging seminar. Instead of it being about the art of blogging maybe it should be about the art of how to destroy a person’s life.
A few weeks ago, when Sarah realized that January 2009 would mark a year since the plagiarism scandal that rocked the ferret world, as well as the romance world, she asked Jane to examine the issue and do a “State of Plagiarism” analysis, so to speak. After much back and forth dialogue, we’ve come to the following conclusions about the way the issue of plagiarism is treated by our community. This entry is posted on both Dear Author and on Smart Bitches as a summary of our conversation.
On the positive side: the issue is being discussed, in the romance community, and in the larger publishing world as well. Fans, authors, and even publishers are being educated as to what plagiarism is, what enforcement mechanisms there are, and why it’s important for the entirety of the literary community to not be complacent or unsupportive. Even if some, or even much, of the discussion is about how horribly mean we were to speak up and speak in the manner that we did, it was dialogue about an important topic that we hadn’t had before.
The Edwards scandal was important not because of who was involved, but because it led to the further education. There was a session at RWA and one at RT. There were mentions in the newspapers and on blogs. There was support for the victim of plagiarism in a way that there wasn’t ten years prior, making it easier for one who is plagiarised to come forward. Plagiarism became newsworthy, and the increased attention meant that victims of prior incidents had room to speak up and share their stories, the costs both financial and emotional they endured to protect their copyright.
Even the absence of discussion was noticeable.
But the negatives are related to the positives: the session at RWA was poorly attended, and there was a backlash to those who spoke out, not so much here at Smart Bitches or Dear Author, but against others who took a stand. With the revelation of plagiarism at the hand of Neale Donald Walsch, the same old themes are played out with a full orchestra.
Those who raise the issue and cry foul, whether it’s a blogger or the writer herself, take the blame. We’re told to hush up, keep quiet, and stop being mean.
It was one year ago this week that we broke the Cassie Edwards story. This entry isn’t in the least about her. Instead, it’s about where the writing community stands in regard to plagiarism within the genre. Based on our analysis, we haven’t made much progress. Lip service is paid to the idea that its bad, but when the excrement hits the air circulating device, there’s navel gazing and thumb twiddling and fretting and calls for forgiveness, bygones, and stop being mean already.
Little has changed in attitude and practice. Plagiarism remains an issue tried in the court of public opinion, and the more famous or published the thief is, the more likely they are to be reassured and forgiven by their eager fanbase. Plagiarism is not an issue that can always be validated in a court case; it’s a community issue. Do we, as a community, believe in the need for intellectual honesty and creativity?
Why is there not more of a reaction to sympathize with the person whose work, inspiration, and words were stolen from them? Why is there instead pressure for the victim to shut up about it and a general attitude that the whole mess should just disappear so people can get back to reading?
In our opinion, plagiarism isn’t taken seriously enough by some readers or by some writers. The defense of the plagiarist and the ease with which forgiveness is offered by readers is so stupid as to be mindboggling. What, because they cried and said they were sorry it should be over? Remorse is enough? To quote the wizened literary scholar Rhianna: “You’re only sorry you got caught.”
Until every reader and every writer refuses to tolerate plagiarism and the thieves that commit it, it will be a problem that continues to grow. But that intolerance needs to extend to every genre. When plagiarism hit romance, the response was, “Oh, but it’s only romance novels, and they’re all the same anyway.” With the spiritual writing community, the response is, “Oh, it’s just crazy religious people who think they talk to God, so whatever.” With fanfic, it’s “Oh, it’s just fanfic.”
Plagiarism should not be tolerated anywhere by anyone, and that includes romance, spiritual writing, literary fiction, academic publication, and fanfic. It shouldn’t be tolerated, it shouldn’t be excused, and it shouldn’t be something that is kept quiet. The lack of support for those who suffer from it is appalling: from insane court costs to accusations of being a whiner, the person who has been robbed is singled out as a troublemaker who ought to pipe down. From warnings of bad publicity to being called an outright liar, the victim is again a victim.
Yet again plagiarism shows up in the news this week, and yet again the same song is played. Everyone should be vocal in making a stand and making plagiarism unacceptable within our community. The song needs to change.
Careful, Madd – keep this up and I may have to offer to marry you 🙂
Went to Edinburgh which is worth 10X any uni you listed. For those of you that don’t know the Open University is a joke here in the UK. So lets not count that as a real degree.
BSc, MA, MSc (Research)
And read my posts. I have made it very clear that I do not agree with theft of any kind. I just do not delight in bullying. No need to kick someone while they are down. It is all about grace.
Never mind. Grrly, I misread your post. I thought you were actually writing ON the books. Post its.. go for it. That doesn’t bother me.
Again, Christmas shopping season left me very bitter to anyone who thinks they are so special that the rules don’t apply to them and don’t give a shit about the people working behind the counters… and causes me to jump the gun and look like an idiot.
It’s only relevant because someone who claims to have ‘many’ letters after her name, doesn’t think plagiarism is that big a deal. And if someone who’s been through a system where there are very strict penalties for an action about which they received very clear warnings all through their academic career, apparently doesn’t get it, how do we make the general public understand it?
Which is why the post-it note idea is fine in principle, but I suspect most people finding one on an Edwards book saying ‘she’s a dirty rotten plagiarist’ will just shrug and go ‘I don’t care what religion she is’ and buy the book anyway.
Stay classy, Morgana.
Actually, there were also similarities found with her work, as it were, and Oliver LaFarge’s 1929 Pulitzer Prize-winning Laughing Boy.
Not that it matters a screeching damn to me. She stole other people’s work, almost verbatim, passed it off as her own, and profited.
The fact that her backlist continues to be reissued and she continues to have new books published offends me beyond all reason. And if that makes me a hardass, well then, that would be one of the nicer things ever said about me.
Brilliant post, I’m not going to wax lyrical but plagiarism should never be tolerated – it’s lazy, petty and undermines the entire profession.
Plagarism is bad, mmm’kay? I haven’t read any of Ms Edwards’ books, and I’m not going to now. Nor have I read anything by Janet Dailey.
I just wanted to say that it is taken seriously in Australian universities. We had a Vice Chancellor of a major university sacked in 2002 because it was discovered that he had not attributed some material in several books of his written in the 1970s. I don’t think he had degrees stripped, but sacking a Vice Chancellor is a MAJOR deal.
Doesn’t matter. They are 10x less wonderful than other universities. Plagiarism is only a big deal for the little institutions [/sarcasm]
Just for information, for anyone interested, the University of Edinburgh “views any case of plagiarism extremely seriously, and is committed to ensuring that plagiarism is, wherever possible, both detected and dealt with appropriately.” The number of cases of plagiarism investigated by the University have been increasing over the past few years (precise figures available here). There was a huge leap in the plagiarism cases investigated in the academic year 2007/8. From what I can see here, the University began to use the Turnitin program early in 2007.
It is a lot of work to document plagiarism, but it is critical to demonstrate that it is serious and has consequences. My university has a 2 strikes and you’re out policy—has had it for quite some time. I have used SB’s posts on CE to show students that plagiarism is theft and can ruin your life—like stealing a car.
Um….
Morgana, meet Mr. Sock Puppet. He’s going to act out a little play with the help of Mrs. Roberts….
Spam Word: simple65 – insert joke here
~Is there a wee bit of the green eyed monster taking over?~
Oh, what crap! What absolute crap. SHAME on you for even going there.
Plagiarism. Not envy. Unless it’s the plagiarist who’s envious enough to steal.
Damn, that one comment, out of everything on here just pisses me off.
I am not envious of CE. Sarah and Candy are not envious of CE. Jane of DA is not envious of CE. I’ll guarantee the majority if not all of the posters here aren’t envious of CE.
I am so freaking tired of people trying to find excuses for this disregard of ethics, this selfish taking of someone else’s work and having the utter gall to claim they did the work and they shed the sweat. And so freaking tired of the apologists and the ones who find a way to distract from the issue.
Envy, my ass.
I’m tired of being slapped at for standing up for myself and for what’s right. I’m tired of seeing the messenger roasted and the victim vilified, the plagiarist comforted and soothed.
There, there, we still love you. Pat, pat, you didn’t mean to do it. Hey, she/he should be flattered! Bullshit.
It is NOT the victim’s fault or the messenger’s fault or the editor’s fault or the publisher’s fault. It is the fault of the person who was too lazy or too selfish or too greedy or in too much of a damn hurry and decided, hey, I can just copy that, change a couple of words and I’m done.
Envy? For God’s sake, what’s wrong with you? I’ve written more books and sold more than CE, and I’m angry. I’m sure as hell not envious.
This email form just ate my comment because I entered the captcha word incorrectly. (Or so it says…Duh duh duuuuuuuuh!)
I’ll do a brief summary here.
Emmy: I was offended and am still offended now. Cassie Edwards’ book covers and back flaps are the kind of ‘exoticism’ that is both racist and disgusting. It was stuff like that that alienated mefrom the romance genre in the eighties and nineties. I would not read her work whether or not she had stolen from people because I can’t stomach looking at that bigoted ****. FWIW, I saw several comments on her racismwhen the plagiarism imbroglio first broke out. However, I think most of those commenters were people unfamiliar with her work, meaning that a lot of romance readers have been seeing that crap for years and said nothing. It’s vile, and it’s unacceptable.
I have no problem with well-written, historically accurate interracial romances. They interest me both personally and as a vital sub-genre in any main genre, both as a reader and a multiracial woman. But failing to address the inherent problems such a couple would face, both socially AND emotionally, does a disservice to what otherwise could be a great story. Mrs. Edwards, from the excerpts I managed to read, utterly fails to understand this.
You know, I was going to respond to this…but my lowly PhD from an American university might not make me qualified to do so.
I will, however, say that if someone stole *my* work, the work that I slaved over for years, and whose writing style I paid very close attention to, I would not be proud. I would be PISSED AS HELL, and would do whatever I could to discredit the other person.
Plagiarism is not flattering, and researchers own their writing and their ideas just as much as fiction writers do.
Ooh, me too! My students loved it. Ferrets became a bit of a byword in my classes last semester.
I think my university must just be behind the times when it comes to plagiarism—it’s possible our whole conference is, from what I’ve heard. I do fight it, and I do make the consequences clear to my students, but, as I said, our plagiarism policy doesn’t really have teeth.
I like the 2 strikes policy, though.
I have no degrees, except honorary ones. I have a high school diploma. I still know what plagiarism is. I know exactly what it feels like when it happens to me. It’s not in any way, shape, form flattery.
Those who think it is are idiots. That’s not name calling. That’s a straight-up fact.
As a teacher I bless you, I thank you, I PRAISE YOU for talking about plagiarism. In ANY FORM.
I WEEKLY get papers that are lifted wholesale from the internet (granted these are middle school kiddos trying to test the waters). But the important fact is not the kids are trying it and getting shot down but that THEIR PARENTS get angry at teachers for not letting it “slip by”. Since it’s “OK” to plagiarize in the “real world”.
It is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT OK! No matter HOW it affects the person after they get caught. It is NOT their work. They do NOT get to put their name on it. PERIOD! (Redundancy!)
So, thank you, SmartBitches, from a teacher who is struggling to hit it home to her students and their parents that this is important and can and WILL effect their entire educational career. (Although the new VP having plagiarized a paper and gotten to where he is now… sheesh… what a role model *sighs*)
::sigh::
Anyone else afraid we’re fighting a losing battle?
Amen, Nora!
Several years ago, I received a manuscript for peer review from a prestigious medical journal. I opened it up, read the first page, said, “Boy that looks familiar.” It was Thanksgiving, I set it aside, went back to it a week later…and discovered the entire introduction was MY WORK.
My entire freaking abstract published in a major health research organization’s conference proceedings was cut and pasted as their introduction. Mine, not theirs, not cited, not referenced. MINE. I went a bit beserk. Called the deputy editor, the editor in chief, called for the authors’ heads. A conference call with the miscreants, their department chair, and the editors ensued. The two authors, who were Assistant Professors, claimed they “didn’t mean it.” It was “an oversight.” To this day, I have no idea what happened to them—if anything.
There are only so many experts on certain topics. They obviously never expected the person they ripped off to be their reviewer. Karmic justice, methinks. It still burns me up when I think about it.
I LOVE stories like that. I knew of another one where a student plagiarized from his professor’s book. For that class.
Needless to say, the kid got caught.
But every story like that, there are stories like those of a couple of grad students who (re)published 40-something articles before they were caught. What tipped the university off? Not the fact that it’s inhuman to publish 40-odd articles as grad students. Nope. It was the fact that their knowledge of physics didn’t seem to match up to the level at which their articles were “written.”
LOL. That’s happened to me, too! The excuses are my favorite: “I must have read it so much I memorized it!” or “I don’t know how that jumped into there!”
Yeah, you’ve gotta watch those sentences and paragraphs. They’re slippery little buggers. Jump right out of one paper and into another just when you least expect it.
Writing: like eating casu marzu, in a way. Wear protection, lest the
maggotssentences leap into your eyes.Morgana:
Edinburgh university is a respected insitution (as is Open university, for that matter). I think you do your Alma Mater no favours by displaying such willful disregard towards plagiarism.
Edinburgh has better standards than that.
Some of the southern (American south) universities still have strong honor codes, which include plagiarism (as something they cover, not something they support!). I went to UVa, where the honor code prohibited lying, cheating, and stealing. Plagiarism certainly fell within those bounds. The UVa honor code had a single sanction, and if you were found guilty of an honor offense, you had to leave the university. No do-over, no one semester off. There were a lot of problems with the system, but one of the things I was very proud of as a student was the strong institutional stance on plagiarism and academic theft. That’s not to say that it never happened (in fact, one of the plagiarism-finding softwares was developed by a UVa professor because of a widespread problem in a class of his), but I applaud the sentiment.
Not that southern universities have a monopoly on honor—though they usually make a more vocal fuss about it.
I’m sorry CE had a stroke; it can’t be easy for her or her family.
However, I don’t believe it was because of the stress caused by the plagiarism scandal. Nor do I believe what she did was right – stealing ideas is wrong. Just like stealing research, stealing books, stealing identities. It’s not brain surgery.
I don’t understand why her fans are so nutso about the whole thing – how do they know when they’re reading the words of Cassie Edwards and when they’re reading the words of some poor underpaid wildlife writer? Speaking of which is that poor ferret-writing guy being compensated for the misappropriation of his hard work? Has anybody? Seems like there’s enough money so that it can go back to the victims since CE’s books are still on the market? Does anybody know? Are there lawsuits pending?
SB Sarah – you be careful at that conference. You may want to post a wacko watch.
Hugs,
Oh. GOD. She didn’t, did she?
“Went to Edinburgh which is worth 10X any uni you listed. “
*rolls eyes again and again and again*
Is that elitist or you just not being able of getting your head out of your ass?
It doesn’t F#$%@$%@ matter what uni you got out of, or if you even went to school. Stealing is stealing is stealing is stealing. What would it take for you to understand such a simple concept like that? CE lifted entire excerpts and didn’t even credit her sources and that’s not stealing? And because people have caught her in the act and bring her issue up from time to time, we’re kicking her when she’s down?
When she starts apologizing and admitting she did wrong, that is when I’ll shut my mouth. But never before.
Copying is the highest form of flattery, my ass.
I’m going for (c) – both.
Of course Morgana’s elitist. Her whole attitude is ‘it’s only fiction, it doesn’t matter’.
[As an aside, my ‘joke’ universities expected better punctuation and grammar than this. My highschool did, for that matter.]
So basically, the authors who aren’t as famous as Edwards needn’t be considered at all, or feel resentful about being stolen from.
I really, honestly think Morgana is a troll, and not a university graduate of any kind. My money is on undergraduate troublemaker. Sadly, she probably believes the tripe she’s spewing, but if she’s the faker I believe she is, at least the situation in higher education isn’t as dire as her attitude would lead us to think.
God, I hope not anyway. The alternative is unspeakable.
In case anyone is still reading this – not to be too flippant, but the thing about the CE scandal that struck me was how badly – how clumsily, clunkily, obviously – she did it.
I’m an English lit major and a librarian, and I’ve written training material for research classes I’ve taught, so I’ve done lots of expository writing and honestly, if you cannot read a set of facts, and then proceed to repeat those facts in your own words, then you have no business calling yourself a writer. I’m not being harsh. We’re not talking creativity here – we’re talking mechanics. It’s not about taking dry material and turning it into something shiny – it’s about taking dry material and making it just as dry, only using different words. She either didn’t want to take the time to do that, or she literally couldn’t do it.
I’m also an aspiring romance writer (coughjust finalled in a competition for the first timeahemcough) – and I can’t imagine how one could accidentally lift whole passages of another’s material—it’s just not possible. It doesn’t happen. And if someone more famous than me were to use my words as their own? I would not be flattered that a big famous bestselling author liked my work enough to steal it. I’d wanna kick a bitch’s ass.
One more thought? There’s something peculiar to the romance field – both writers and readers – about being nice. Maybe it’s because so many of us who read and write it are women, but I hate that kind of womanish – and I mean that in the pejorative sense – sensitivity. Like when the SBs write a particularly scathing review, and the fangirls show up to chastise them for hurting the author’s feelings. I don’t think readers of any other genre do that. It’s ridiculous. One of my crit partners – and I like her work – is frequently a judge in romance writing competitions and I asked her once what she does when she gets a particularly bad entry – I have read some really, really bad stuff from other aspiring writers. Some people out there write like I sing. (But you know what? I don’t audition for American Idol.) I asked her how she approaches it. She said she always tries to find something positive to praise, because no one deserves to have their dream smashed. Now, as I said – in case she’s reading this site – I like her work – she’s a good writer. But I disagree with her there.
And I think it’s that attitude that makes a lot of romance readers loathe to criticize obvious and blatant misconduct, and it’s one of the reasons romance isn’t taken more seriously as a genre.
Did I just write all that? Indeed I did, and I’ve successfully avoided working on my WIP for another thirty minutes.
And I have to ask – is that the REAL Nora Roberts who posts on here? Cause OH MY GOD……
Pardon my french but…
WHO THE FUCK WROTE YOU THAT LETTER?
What kind of a person believes that if you do something morally reprehensible and get caught, your problems thereafter are directly caused by the people who caught you in the act? What kind of screwed up logic is that?
I wish Ms. Edwards a speedy and complete recovery, because no one deserves to have a stroke. And I’m pretty sure that having an anonymous friend sending these kind of letters isn’t going to help reduce her stress level.
This entire topic makes my head hurt. Maybe all of CE’s asshatted supporters are giving me a stroke.
The people who say that the topic should be dropped because CE is a sweet old grandma have a severe logic deficit. As far as I can tell she has stolen other authors’ work her entire career. She’s a old thief now only because she wasn’t caught back when she was a young thief. Getting away with something for a long time isn’t the same thing as being innocent.
The people who took issue with the Bitches for “piling on” because of all the posts need to ask themselves why they felt that way instead of thinking, “Damn, Cassie Edwards plagiarized a lot.”
The people who say be plagiarized is a compliment make me wonder what they would say if someone broke into their house & took their stuff. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be, “I’m so flattered that someone thought I had such good taste. But really my neighbor’s stuff is so much nicer they should have taken it instead.” I also really doubt that most people would forgive the thief because s/he was ill or under a lot of pressure or having “issues”.
As so many others have pointed out, this is not actually a tough or complicated issue. You can’t copy other people’s work for any reason. If I plagiarized from anyone, including myself, I’d be thrown out of my Master’s program and would be ineligible to be readmitted at any point in the future. The offense would go on my record and no other reputable school would admit me either. One offense would ruin my entire career—-and I’m fine with that because I don’t still other people’s work.
Ummm…no. Not here, at least. I wouldn’t want to be the author of a zillion books, if the books weren’t solely and completely and wholly mine. It’s only worth it if I’ve earned it and worked for it.
Why does it matter who the other authors are? Theft is theft. It doesn’t matter if it’s a bestseller plagiarizing nonfiction or if it’s a couple of college kids writing fanfic. You don’t claim ownership over work you didn’t create.
Whether or not the other authors works were likely to be read by readers of CE is irrelevant. Doing something wrong just because you’re pretty sure you won’t get caught, IMO, just makes a person weak-willed. You do the right thing, whether or not people are watching, whether or not you’re likely to get caught. Anything less means the person doesn’t have a whole hell of a lot of integrity.
I’ve never had my work plagiarized, but I can guarantee you the last thing I’d feel is ‘pride’ or ‘pleasure’. I get my work pirated all the time and when people tell me I should feel ‘pleased’, all that does is make me laugh. Having something stolen from you doesn’t inspire warm fuzzies. It just doesn’t.
She still took other people’s work. It doesn’t matter than she didn’t steal entire scenes from romance writers, or plots. She took the words of other writers and tried to claim they were her own.
No matter how a person pretties it up or tries to sidestep the fact, it’s plagiarism and it’s wrong, and if we can’t respect the rights of those who write outside the romance genre (I mean, it was just research material… /sarcasm) then who in the hell are we to complain when others don’t show respect to us, the readers and writers of romance?
One more thing.
Melissa, this
I totally making me want to read a romance set during Watergate. If none exist I’m tempted to try to write one. I swear there’s a great romantic comedy in there just dying to get out.
You know what this site really needs? The ability to go back & edit comments to fix all the typos you made because you were writing while in full on rant mode.
Ahh…but then we’d miss all the lovely Spoonerisms…=)
Lori,
Have you seen the movie Dick? It’s a comedy about Watergate. Very silly and pretty funny.
So based on the evidence we can assume your parents bought your way in, eh Morgana?
Dudes, right before Christmas, two of my high school Juniors were caught STEALING SOMEONE ELSE’S WORK PACKETS AND PUTTING THEIR OWN NAMES ON THEM.
Their punishment? They have to be in my class again this semester. That will be punishment enough.
Punishment for me!!!
Plagiarism is overlooked because honor is no longer a family value—it’s that simple. The concept of violating a personal code is considered archaic and naive—apparently, the only people who don’t believe this, are the people who craft their own work and take pride in it as their own.
Nobody who participated in the Cassie Edwards unmasking wished harm on Ms. Edwards. But writing is supposed to be a way of establishing immortality—writers like Edmunt Spenser and Shakespeare were proud to point out that because they wrote about their beloveds, their beloveds would live as long as their words.
It’s flat out not fair to take the lasting artistic impression of a person’s soul (whether its science journals or poetry) and pass it off as your own. It is dishonorable. If we want to consider ourselves an honorable civilization, we should be more offended when people dishonor our art.